Latest / Genuin Connections / Genuin Connections: Episode 14 -- Chad Hickey, Founder/CEO at Givsly

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Genuin Connections: Episode 14 -- Chad Hickey, Founder/CEO at Givsly · Genuin Connections

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This is genuine connections featuring
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collaborative conversations about
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community, content, creativity,
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commerce, and the convergence of media
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and marketing.
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>> Hey everyone, welcome back to Genuine
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Connections, the show where we dig into
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how brands are rethinking the
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relationship between content, community,
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and the people we're trying to reach.
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I'm your host, Matt Wurst, CMO at
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Genuine. And today's conversation is one
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I've been genuinely looking forward to.
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My guest is Chad Hickey, who's the
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co-founder and CEO of Givesley, which is
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a valuebased advertising platform that
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connects brands with consumers through
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shared beliefs and in the process make
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and direct real dollars to nonprofit
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causes that matter. Chad spent nearly
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two decades in adtech building revenue
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teams at companies like ground truth and
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placed where location data and
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attribution were the entire game. And at
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some point along the way he asked a
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question a lot of people in this
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industry quietly avoid. What if
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advertising could actually do something
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good? That question became gives them.
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And what they've built isn't a charity
1:19
play or a PR stunt. It's a functioning
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media model where purpose and
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performance aren't on opposite ends of
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the spectrum. So in an era where trust
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is scarce and authenticity is hard to
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fake and consumers are more skeptical
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than ever, I think what Chad is building
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matters a lot. And I think you'll come
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away from this conversation thinking
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differently about where media dollars go
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and what they can stand for. So let's
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welcome Chad Hickey to Genuine
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Connections.
1:50
Chad, welcome to Genuine Connections.
1:53
Thank you so much for being here with
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us. I know you just got off a plane, so
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getting up early for us.
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>> Yeah,
1:59
>> appreciate it.
2:00
>> Coming back from the West Coast,
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>> there's a lot of that going back and
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forth these days, especially in the
2:05
beginning of the year with lots of
2:06
events. Do you ever get used to it?
2:10
>> You know, there was a time when I was
2:13
literally traveling um globally. Every
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six weeks I would be in Asia for two
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weeks. I would come back to New York for
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a week and then I would go to Europe for
2:23
a week and then I would come back to New
2:24
York for two weeks but then I would kind
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of like spend some time in the US at my
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US markets and um I got very used to it.
2:31
In fact, when it slowed down it kind of
2:33
felt strange. Now I'm kind of in the
2:36
opposite you know bucket where you know
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I think after the pandemic none of us
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travel near like that as much. Um, and
2:44
so when I do have to do it, you know,
2:46
it's kind of more in the middle of a
2:48
balance, if that makes sense.
2:50
>> Well, from the physical journeys to the
2:53
more metaphorical journey, you've you've
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spent nearly two decades um across this
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industry with some some some great
3:01
companies that we all know. When you
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think back and look back at that journey
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now, are there some common threads that
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shaped how you think about this industry
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and the role that we're we're kind of
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all contributing to society here in?
3:16
>> Well, first of all, I won't hold it
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against you that you said two decades.
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That was a little hard to swallow. Um,
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but
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>> it's wisdom and experience go hand in
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hand, just so you know.
3:26
>> No, no, no. I'm just kidding. Um, you
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know what I've learned about myself is
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that I cannot work for a company or I
3:36
guess start a company where I'm not
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genuinely interested in the product and
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I don't 150% believe in the vision.
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>> Um, and I've had a couple of companies,
3:48
one specifically that, you know, I took
3:51
a role for the money. If I'm being
3:53
honest, the package was very uh very
3:56
attractive. I negotiated that one pretty
3:58
well. And it was probably the company
4:01
that I was the most miserable. So, I
4:04
learned through that experience that
4:06
one, money isn't everything. That's the
4:08
the first piece. No matter what people
4:10
believe, I say money can buy uh peace of
4:12
mind, but it can't buy happiness. Um but
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from that other side of things, I
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realized about myself that I also need
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to work in a company where I genuinely
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am interested in something. Like I'm not
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very good at pretending to be interested
4:24
in topics. And so, um, that is the one
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rule of thumb that I live by. And I
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think in this environment, you know,
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people will ask me all the time,
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especially with a lot of people, you
4:32
know, looking for a role or being out of
4:34
work, they're like, "Where would you
4:36
go?" And I'm like,
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you know, I don't see a ton of companies
4:39
that me personally like I'm super super
4:42
interested in or excited by. Um, and
4:44
that just may be my exposure, but you
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know, from that perspective, it's just
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something I've learned about myself.
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Well, and and you think backing back on
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those roles that you've had in in many
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cases like leading revenue teams in
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adtech at a time when mobile and
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location data and all these variables
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and attribution are exploding.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Was there a specific moment when you had
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this realization that the industry
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needed to evolve beyond
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performance and targeting into something
5:13
more values driven?
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Um
5:18
I wouldn't say
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>> a slow burn into that realization.
5:21
>> I wouldn't say that there was a moment
5:24
specifically. I think that look that you
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know I started Gibsley really out of my
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experience when I was the CRO of XED
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which is now ground truth where
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>> you know we were going and volunteering
5:35
with our clients some of the time rather
5:37
than just always taking them to like uh
5:40
a sporting event or a concert or things
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like that. And it was one of the things
5:45
that out of the relationship like that I
5:48
developed from those experience, it was
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different. It was a human relationship.
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And so what's interesting, you know,
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about Gibsley starting in 2019 as an
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experiences company and now having
5:58
experiences and media is that people are
6:02
really leaned into the experiences side
6:05
in a different way than they were um in
6:08
the beginning. even in 2020 during the
6:10
pandemic and and George Floyd and Bana
6:12
Taylor and some of those other um
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significant moments, it's that I think
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in this world of automation and um
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people staring at their phone more than
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they do a human face, you know, they are
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looking for human connection. I I know
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even from my own, you know, experience
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of, you know, to your point, Matt, of
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being in the industry for as long as I
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have, you know, people don't want to go
6:34
out like they used to. They don't want
6:35
to be entertained the way that they used
6:37
to. they are looking for something
6:39
unique that makes them feel good. Um
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because feeling good in today's world is
6:45
scarcity and I think human connection is
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a scarcity and it's only going to become
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more of one. And so we definitely see
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the event side taking on um a much
6:55
deeper meaning than even I anticipated
6:58
when starting the company in 2019.
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And I think I've seen you call it I want
7:03
to get the language right. Like a
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valuesbased advertising
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>> platform or experience.
7:10
>> Yeah. that gives brands the ability to
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align with a consumer belief or or
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purpose, which I know is a term that
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means different things to different
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people. But what does that actually look
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like in practice for a marketer when
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they're balancing personal feelings,
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thoughts, reactions to representing a
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business that has to also consider
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everyone in its audience target
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segmentation?
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Yeah, I think that, you know, it's a
7:42
great question because
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I think what we do a lot of times gets
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really mistaken for um, you know, a
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strategy for cause marketing or some
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sort of ESG um, you know, uh, tool to
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help people meet a goal. And yes,
8:01
indirectly those things, you know, can
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be achieved through our products. But
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really what we are seeing marketers
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understand is that values is coming into
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the consideration set the same way as
8:13
price quality and convenience to buy a
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product. And so what Gibsley is very
8:18
bullish on and I'm very bullish on is
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saying no this isn't a cause marketing
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strategy. This is a way to speak to your
8:24
consumer. More than six and ten
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consumers in the US say that values
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comes into the consideration set when
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selecting a brand. And when price,
8:34
quality and convenience is the same,
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values directs people into the the um
8:40
direction of the brand that the values
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align with that consumer. And so for us,
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we are super focused on how do brands
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talk to consumers based on who they are
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and what they value as as a human so
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that they can build trust and loyalty
8:56
rather than it being about in my view
8:59
the historical way of approaching cause
9:02
marketing where
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>> the ads are kind of fluffy. It's not
9:05
always about okay like this is what we
9:07
stand for. We see you as a person. now
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come in and buy our products because
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we're supporting you as a human, which
9:12
is a buying behavior. You know, what I
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say to brands all the time is if I told
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you six out of seven of your consumers
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were Hispanic, you would be targeting
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Hispanics or a sports enthusiast, you
9:22
would be targeting sports enthusiasts.
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Brands need to be thinking about values
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in the exact same way. It's not this
9:28
like fluffy cause marketing uh strategy.
9:32
It is a part of the consumer
9:34
consideration set. And so they need to
9:36
be thinking about how they incorporate
9:38
that into their product messaging. And
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that's why 95% of the campaigns that we
9:42
run are actually product campaigns.
9:43
They're not cause marketing. So from
9:45
that consumer expectation or behavioral
9:49
mindset or whatever it is that creates
9:52
that real business opportunity, right?
9:54
It's not just like checking a box to
9:56
your point.
9:57
that six and 10 or that number I feel
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like it's accelerated and the number is
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impressive and hopefully continues to
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grow but what is it about this movement
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towards values alignment between brands
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and consumers that has made it
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accelerate more recently is it those
10:16
flash points is it just the fact that
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media is more accessible and we're
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walking around with devices and
10:20
everything's in real time now
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>> look I think that some you know brands
10:24
have been doing this a really long time
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and if you look at them. They are very
10:28
successful brands and I think that, you
10:30
know, Patagonia, even Chick-fil-A, like
10:33
I'm a person that Chick-fil-A's values
10:35
doesn't necessarily align with mine,
10:37
right? But I here's here's what I would
10:41
say. Tomorrow, if Chick-fil-A says,
10:43
"Hey, we're not ever supporting a Pride
10:45
Festival," I would go, "Okay, why?"
10:48
Because I know what their values are.
10:49
They're very clear in that. And
10:51
sometimes the convenience and the
10:52
quality of their product, like I go and
10:54
buy one of their sandwiches. I don't do
10:56
it frequently, but you know that sort of
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thing.
10:59
>> And so I think that now in this moment
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where everything feels very unstable and
11:06
very uncertain no matter what side of
11:08
the fence you sit on and it's kind of
11:10
hard to have these conversations without
11:11
it being somewhat political. Um, but
11:14
consumers, I think, are really taking
11:16
control in a way that they feel very out
11:20
of control. and where they're taking
11:22
control is by saying, "Okay, I'm gonna
11:24
buy from brands who see me as a human
11:25
because that's the way to make my voice
11:27
heard in some sort of way that impacts
11:30
their bottom line so that then they
11:32
start to pay more attention to who their
11:33
consumer base is." Well, and and some of
11:36
the brands, we don't need to name names,
11:38
but some of them probably still think
11:40
that purpose-driven campaigns are nice
11:42
to haves, but we're starting to hear
11:46
these stories, and maybe we always have,
11:48
just now we're more attuned to it, but
11:49
the fact that they can be performance
11:52
drivers, it's it's it's valid. It's
11:54
happening. What have you seen from a
11:57
data perspective that or or just about
12:00
the relationship between values
12:01
alignment and marketing performance that
12:03
can kind of justify this? I mean it is
12:06
we have a 90% plus retention rate in our
12:10
media campaigns because they overperform
12:13
and it is everything from brand
12:15
awareness to advocacy to purchase intent
12:19
to store visitation down to sales. We
12:23
have uh a a brand that works with us
12:26
that showed that we are producing 33%
12:29
increase in ROI quarter over quarter. So
12:31
that is from their sales data. So, we
12:34
know that it works. And again, I think
12:36
that, you know, we have to break away
12:38
from cause marketing or purposedriven
12:41
campaigns, like some of these words
12:43
that, yes, it is that peripherally, you
12:46
know what I mean? But they also have
12:48
this fluffy um legacy impression, I
12:51
think, to marketers where they've
12:53
historically not been seen as an ROI
12:56
driver. it's been more of like a brand
12:57
awareness driver or something more top
12:59
of the funnel where what we're saying is
13:01
like listen um this is actually going to
13:03
bring people to the shelf to actually
13:06
select your brand. In fact, we had a CPG
13:09
brand say we see that when people see
13:11
your ad formats that they feel some sort
13:13
of accountability at the shelf to
13:16
actually select our brand because they
13:19
have much more of a human connection to
13:21
it which I thought was a super
13:23
interesting insight. I think it um yes I
13:27
I agree and I think as you're talking
13:29
about this what I hear in my mind you
13:31
know there's always this classic balance
13:32
and battle and we hear it all the time
13:34
too brand verse performance brand and
13:37
performance it's the age-old thing
13:38
that'll never go away but in some ways
13:40
you're helping redefine a branding
13:45
exercise for brands that is also about
13:47
performance so you're kind of doing that
13:50
work so if you can rebrand cause
13:53
marketing into marketing based marketing
13:57
>> doesn't it work right
13:58
>> yeah and and I think it's foundational
13:59
to the future consumer like when you
14:01
talk about data um the data is showing
14:05
us that there's really three groups that
14:07
significantly overindex for looking for
14:10
values when selecting a brand one
14:12
millennials and Gen Z not surprising
14:14
multicultural audiences which are the
14:16
growth audiences 40% of this country is
14:18
someone of color um or queer you know
14:20
that sort of thing um and then affluent
14:22
audiences so the people are probably
14:24
going to have the money to still
14:26
transact in uh you know in a down
14:29
economy. And so I think for smart
14:32
marketers who are forward thinking they
14:34
are understanding this. They just it's a
14:37
scary thing as you can imagine. But like
14:39
what I say to people is listen you see
14:43
negative things happening when someone
14:45
betrays the values that they have
14:48
previously stated. It's kind of going
14:50
back to that Chick-fil-A example, right?
14:52
like Chick-fil-A saying that they're
14:53
never going to sponsor a pride festival
14:55
isn't a betrayal of their values that
14:57
they've previously stated. So therefore,
14:59
me as a member of the queer community
15:01
doesn't
15:02
>> I don't I don't feel that impacted by
15:04
that now.
15:05
>> And their and their base isn't either
15:06
because their base has always known what
15:08
they stand for. And
15:10
>> but if their but if they came out and
15:12
said, "Hey, we're changing our logos
15:13
rainbow and all that," their base would
15:16
they would have backlash. And the other
15:18
really interesting thing about all of
15:20
this is, you know, people think it's
15:21
some woke liberal thing in the research
15:24
that we've done with Global Web Index,
15:25
which we just announced actually today,
15:27
uh, so whenever this airs, March 6. Um,
15:29
if anyone's interested in the research
15:30
to reach out, but we found that the
15:33
fastest growing groups of people who are
15:35
shopping based on values are actually
15:37
conservatives and baby boomers. So it's
15:40
not that liberal, it's not that younger,
15:42
it's not that people of color aren't,
15:44
you know, accelerating. They're just not
15:46
accelerating at the same rate because
15:47
they already had that foundation there.
15:49
>> Right. Okay. So, and regardless of that,
15:52
what you are creating, you're building a
15:55
new model for advertising, right? It's
16:00
it's changing incentive structures. And
16:03
I think one of the interesting things
16:04
about Gizley as I've gotten to know you
16:06
is that it changes how media dollars
16:08
flow, right? Connecting things that may
16:10
not have been connected before as a, you
16:14
know, as someone who's getting to know
16:15
you or for the listeners who may not
16:17
know as much about you. How does that
16:18
model actually work for for like
16:21
agencies and brands and even nonprofits?
16:26
>> Yeah, we I mean, look, we take a
16:27
percentage of our margin and we donate
16:29
it back with every dollar that comes in.
16:30
We've always done that for events. We do
16:32
that with media. And so it's so funny
16:35
when people say like, "How do you make
16:36
that work? How are you a profitable
16:38
company?" I'm like, I think it just says
16:40
something about the margins of other
16:42
companies that they're not willing to
16:44
donate, you know, a certain percentage.
16:46
You know what I mean? And so what that
16:49
means for brands, what that means for
16:50
nonprofits, uh, specifically is that
16:52
nonprofits are now, you know, through
16:54
working with us seeing a new revenue
16:56
stream, right? like they're tapping into
16:59
marketing dollars for products rather
17:01
than these cause marketing dollars that
17:03
you know tend to be one 2% of the
17:05
overall marketing budget. You know, now
17:07
we're saying as Gibsley,
17:10
it is inherent to our DNA to always
17:13
donate based on every dollar that comes
17:15
into the door. And that is baked into
17:16
our model. And so when I plan out 2026,
17:20
I say, "Okay, a certain percentage of
17:22
our gross revenue is going to go to the
17:24
charities of our customers choice." And
17:26
that's just the way the model's always
17:27
been.
17:28
>> Another line item in the P&L, right?
17:30
>> It's just a line item.
17:31
>> Yeah. Uh, and so I think that a lot of
17:34
uh, people that are newer to the Gibsley
17:37
story, you know, sometimes approach it
17:38
with skepticism. And when they ask me
17:40
that question like, "How are you able to
17:41
do this and be a profitable company?"
17:42
I'm like, "You should ask your other
17:44
partners why they're not able to do it."
17:46
>> Well, I I give you I mean, personally, I
17:49
give you a ton of just praise and and
17:54
want to express gratitude for the I
17:55
mean, it's millions of of dollars.
17:58
>> Yes.
17:58
>> That you've given even over the years.
18:01
But I think even the proximity to
18:03
nonprofits, which is something, you
18:05
know, again, I personally believe in
18:07
just based on the, you know, where my
18:09
values align, there's so much that you
18:11
can learn as a marketer, as a
18:14
storyteller, because some of the best
18:16
marketers I know are in the nonprofit
18:17
space because they have to be creative,
18:19
they have to get scrappy, they have to
18:20
do more with less. has been has being
18:24
close in proximity to them taught you
18:25
anything about community and engagement
18:28
that marketers can learn from?
18:31
>> Um, look, I think that nonprofits
18:33
protect their brand just like brands
18:35
like Walmart and the Home Depot and
18:36
others, right? Like I think that that
18:39
for me was um a naive approach in the
18:44
beginning and I learned that very
18:46
quickly. Like I just assumed, and I see
18:48
this a lot with our customers sometimes,
18:50
you know, that haven't dabbled in this
18:53
mindset very much, is that they think,
18:55
"Oh, well, I donate $1,000, they're just
18:57
going to be happy, you know, and at the
19:00
end of the day, some of the larger
19:01
nonprofits protect their brand just as
19:03
much as forprofits do." And they run
19:06
welloiled machines that are very direct
19:08
response um you know, focused where it's
19:11
all about every dollar coming in to uh
19:14
you know, the organization. Now, that's
19:16
typically for the more seasoned and
19:18
wellestablished nonprofits. In the
19:20
smaller nonprofits, you know, they do
19:22
need more help at understanding our
19:23
world, how to get the marketing message
19:26
out and all of that. But I think that
19:28
the biggest lesson has been that, you
19:30
know, this isn't, you know, sometimes
19:33
>> partnering with for-profit companies for
19:34
nonprofits is more of a re resource
19:36
constraint than people realize. Um and
19:40
so at the end of the day they are just
19:42
looking for additional funding to
19:43
fulfill their mission because they can
19:45
operate themselves you know easier than
19:49
bringing in a company of volunteers for
19:51
you know 100 people for the day where
19:53
they have to train them and that takes a
19:54
lot of like operational um you know
19:57
longevity there. So um I think that
19:59
that's been really one of the biggest
20:00
lessons I've learned the more I've
20:01
gotten into the nonprofit world. That's
20:04
Yeah, I think that's a good point is to
20:05
call out the fact that like it's not
20:07
just that all nonprofits are the same.
20:09
>> Yeah.
20:10
>> Right. It is an ecosystem of big, small,
20:14
well staffed, not right. So I think
20:16
that's actually a helpful point as
20:19
brands, it's also a loaded term, brands
20:22
means everybody. Yeah. But as as
20:24
companies talk about purpose constantly
20:27
and it's become one of those words like
20:29
authenticity that you hear and you it
20:31
may have even lost its meaning
20:33
>> until someone can imbue something back
20:35
that that restores it.
20:37
>> I think it's created unfortunately some
20:40
skepticism with consumers because
20:42
they're not sure if it's
20:45
genuine or if it's performative. So, how
20:48
can we collectively tell the difference
20:51
between genuine purpose and performative
20:54
purpose? Is there how do you do it?
20:57
>> Consistency
20:58
>> glasses on and get a little closer to
20:59
the to the to the story that they're
21:01
telling or is it just meeting the people
21:03
behind them?
21:04
>> No, it's the it's the consistency and
21:06
it's in their actions. People can say a
21:08
lot of stuff.
21:09
>> I can say a lot of stuff, but if I'm not
21:11
actually walking the walk, that is when
21:15
>> things go left, right? And I think that
21:17
that is where the consumers have gotten
21:19
very very smart. The the example I
21:22
always think about is, you know, 10
21:24
years ago in June, every brand would
21:27
change their logo to rainbows and, you
21:29
know, virtue signal all day long or you
21:32
would walk down the street in June in
21:34
New York and every store window looked
21:35
like a rainbow threw up on it. And and
21:37
candidly at that time, um, I found it
21:41
very performative. Like I was like,
21:42
people don't really care, you know, like
21:44
they're just like virtue signaling for
21:46
this one month. I like to say that I'm
21:47
only gay in June and July one I I turned
21:49
straight. Uh you know, you're welcome,
21:52
ladies. Uh but anyway, you know, from
21:54
from that perspective,
21:55
>> shut up.
21:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just wait until July 1st.
21:58
I'll be back in the dating pool. No. Um
22:00
but it it was like one of those things
22:02
that felt for me very performative. But
22:06
on the flip side of that, now
22:10
I notice very much how lacking that is.
22:13
and the brands who are still brave
22:16
enough and authentic enough to say, "No,
22:20
we still very much support this group."
22:22
But for me, it's been an interesting
22:24
thing for me to process because
22:26
initially I had a inauthentic reaction
22:31
to it 10 years ago where now I'm seeing
22:34
the authenticity. Unfortunately, that
22:36
authenticity though is not consistent
22:40
with how those brands behaved in the
22:42
past. And I think that that's where you
22:43
experience backlash. People are paying
22:45
attention. I am paying very much
22:47
attention to the brands who in this
22:50
moment still stand up for who I am. And
22:52
I know a lot of people of color. I know
22:54
women.
22:55
Hell, even white straight men. I don't
22:57
like the fact that people say, "Oh, this
22:59
white straight man." It's like, I would
23:00
not be in my career without a lot of
23:02
great white straight men that pulled me
23:04
along, you know, and believed in me. So,
23:06
I think we also have to retire that. But
23:08
I do think that brands need to
23:10
understand that uh we are paying
23:13
attention and there will be a day where
23:15
hopefully this time passes and I think
23:17
that um the brands who stay true to who
23:20
they are and they understand that the
23:22
narrative doesn't reflect consumers are
23:24
going to be the ones that win.
23:27
>> Okay. So consistency
23:29
is key for trust, right? Correct.
23:35
>> You know, we're living in this moment
23:36
where trust in institutions and media
23:37
and platforms is just fluctuating
23:39
dramatically
23:40
>> because of inconsistency.
23:43
>> So, I'll just say instead of purpose
23:46
driven, valuesdriven campaigns can help
23:49
brands rebuild trust with
23:52
communities. It's not just audiences
23:54
because I think community is this
23:55
multidirectional
23:57
participatory experience as opposed to
24:00
what used to be media where it's I'm
24:03
showing you something.
24:04
>> Yeah.
24:04
>> So the ones who actually ask for
24:06
feedback or who solicit participation
24:08
are the ones who win consistently.
24:11
>> Yeah. And I don't even say communities.
24:12
I don't even say I say customers because
24:15
that's when
24:16
>> that's your business hat.
24:18
>> Yeah. That's when a brand understands
24:19
that, oh, a customer has money and they
24:21
come in and they buy my product. And
24:23
yeah, if you're doing something
24:24
inconsistent, I'm not buying from you.
24:28
>> Okay? And and the other thing too is
24:31
that values, people need to understand
24:33
values doesn't have to just mean DEI and
24:36
sustainability. Like that's where
24:37
everyone defaults. They're like, "Oh my,
24:39
but wait, I can't." It's like we will
24:42
sit across from a CPG brand and they'll
24:43
be like, "Our values is healthy eating
24:45
or
24:46
>> Exactly. I was just going to say health
24:47
is is a value, right?
24:48
>> Yeah.
24:49
>> Look at look at what's going on with
24:50
anthropic and open AI. Like I don't want
24:54
mass surveillance. Like I am not using a
24:57
platform that I don't feel comfortable
24:59
with the way my data is being shared.
25:01
That is one of my values. And so I also
25:04
think that brands need to get out of
25:05
this very narrow lens of what values are
25:09
because you know we'll we'll get a
25:11
response sometimes from people who just
25:13
don't I think want to think in a forward
25:16
way you know like we'll reach out if
25:17
there's a good fit. Okay, you don't have
25:19
values today. Like I always have values.
25:21
Values is in everything that I do and
25:23
the way that I behave. And so brands
25:26
need to start thinking that way rather
25:27
than these oneoff things because again
25:30
that's also doesn't feel authentic, you
25:32
know, when customers just see it as
25:34
like, oh, it's it's International
25:36
Women's Day. We've got to like do an
25:38
International Women's Day. No. Like
25:40
Facebook clients all the time.
25:42
>> Yeah. you know, the the more I hear you
25:47
talking about it and it's something that
25:48
you've been a leader in for a while,
25:51
I think even values as a term is not
25:55
really enough. I mean, it's important,
25:57
but it's not enough. To me, it comes
25:59
back to now as you're as you're
26:00
explaining it, the business importance
26:03
of just relevance. Is what you're doing
26:05
relevant to your consumer? Because if
26:08
that's true, then your values align and
26:10
your messaging and your positioning and
26:11
your product attributes align because
26:13
it's relevant. That's right. And
26:15
creating some sort of relevant relevance
26:18
index is probably the new performance
26:22
metric that no one's figured out yet,
26:24
but need to soon.
26:25
>> Well, yeah, go ahead.
26:27
>> Oh, sorry. You know, humanity is going
26:30
to be the scarcity of the future. You
26:34
you know what I mean? And
26:35
>> literally this is where I was going.
26:37
That's That's right.
26:38
>> Yes. And so people who don't realize
26:41
that
26:43
they're to me behind in my opinion is
26:46
the world becomes more and more we see
26:48
it in our event side of our business so
26:51
much where people are just looking to
26:53
connect based on who they are and it not
26:58
always being about oh here's a CTV panel
27:01
you know it's like or oh let's talk
27:03
about you know how we're using AI to do
27:07
XYZ transform marketing. Yeah.
27:09
>> Yeah. Like it it is people want to be
27:12
seen. They want to feel like people care
27:14
about them. I mean, look at what's
27:16
happening with the workforce. Like I've
27:18
never seen morale of our industry be at
27:20
the level that it is like with some
27:22
groups. Um and it is because people feel
27:28
a lack of hope. Like that's the only way
27:31
I can think to explain it. like
27:34
visualizing the future right now is very
27:36
very hard.
27:39
>> Yeah. Uncertainty I I think uncertainty
27:42
is fair but hope and uncertainty don't
27:45
have to be tied to the same thread.
27:47
>> And as we look ahead
27:51
three, five years again I looking beyond
27:54
three years right now is is probably
27:56
hard for a lot of reasons. But do you
27:58
think that this relevance-based or
28:00
values-based
28:02
advertising becomes a niche or does it
28:04
become table stakes as we as we think
28:08
about this next evolution of AI and
28:10
responsibility and ethics and technology
28:12
and all those things accelerating?
28:14
>> Oh, I think it's table stakes because
28:16
values is humanity, right? Like it's
28:18
funny. I um I actually asked one of the
28:22
platforms to explain my values and it
28:25
can't like I mean it was like hey like I
28:27
think
28:28
you are like this, you know what I mean?
28:30
But it wasn't necessarily accurate. And
28:33
so to your point, is it this niche
28:36
thing? No. Like I think that people are
28:39
going to need human connection more than
28:42
ever in 10 years because everything will
28:45
feel so I mean look at even the news
28:48
like you like people will send me an
28:50
article and the first thing I say is
28:51
what's the source? You know what I mean?
28:53
And they'll say well I think it's this
28:54
but who knows what's really happening.
28:56
you know, like how many times does that
28:58
happen to people now? And so that
29:00
humanity and that connection is going to
29:02
be a scarcity and it is going to be uh
29:04
very soughta in the future.
29:06
>> Well, I and I love that you have a real
29:09
human connection foundational pillar to
29:12
what you guys do and as a karaoke I
29:16
wouldn't even say enthusiast because
29:18
passion exceeds enthusiasm most of the
29:20
time, sometimes excessively.
29:22
>> Yeah.
29:23
How has that become a rallying point? Is
29:27
it just because people love coming
29:28
together or is it is there more to it
29:31
than just
29:33
>> fear and uh embarrassment?
29:36
>> Yeah, I think that people love coming
29:38
together, but going back to the humanity
29:39
side, to see a really senior executive
29:43
get up on stage and visibly be
29:46
uncomfortable and vulnerable
29:49
is it humanizes them. And I think that
29:53
it is one of the things that people um
29:58
don't talk about enough of, you know,
30:01
the karaoke for causes event that we
30:03
have that's so popular is it is oh my
30:06
gosh, you know, and Lisa Gio, I'll call
30:08
her out because she's just like been
30:09
such a huge supporter and this year we
30:11
will cross a million dollars in
30:13
donations from this just this one event
30:15
and it's something that we're super
30:16
proud of, right Matt? like saying going
30:18
back to the business model, it would
30:19
have been really great for me to just
30:20
keep that million dollars and continue
30:22
to build my company, but we choose to go
30:25
out and like support these communities
30:28
who need it. But when you get a person
30:30
like Lisa who's this great senior
30:32
respected person you know up there
30:34
singing in French at can or you know uh
30:37
she does this Rick roll thing that I had
30:39
never heard of but maybe you know what
30:41
I'm talking about you know where you
30:42
know she always really brings her
30:44
performances um she gives 150%.
30:47
>> She's never going to give it up or let
30:48
us down. Is that what you're saying?
30:49
>> Never. Yeah. Exactly. But she, you know,
30:53
like I'm sure to people who are not
30:55
exposed to her on a daily basis, it
30:57
humanizes her. You know what I mean? and
30:58
they say, "Oh my gosh, she's a fun
31:00
person," which she is, you know, and
31:01
that sort of thing. And so, I think that
31:03
that is one of the added elements to
31:05
karaoke that I think people enjoy on top
31:07
of, you know, a night of drinking and
31:09
free food and all that stuff.
31:11
>> Well, I am I am in when it's back in New
31:13
York or if you need me to step on stage
31:15
and in France and do it and can, I'll do
31:17
it there, too. Um,
31:18
>> okay, good to know.
31:19
>> So, thank you for letting me invite
31:21
myself.
31:21
>> Yeah. No, no, no. I you just to change
31:24
gears just a little bit because you're
31:25
also a founder and someone who's built
31:28
something that's successful and I that's
31:31
such a small percentage of the
31:32
population have ever done that. So I
31:35
want to give you give you uh the credit
31:37
for that. But I'm curious if there's
31:40
something that stands out as you look
31:41
back now. Clearly, you're always looking
31:44
ahead, but was there a challenge or like
31:47
what's the hardest thing about building
31:49
Gives in, you know, from the ground up
31:51
that people outside the startup world
31:53
may not even realize?
31:55
>> Um, well, first of all, it's my team.
31:57
It's not me. Like, I have a very good
31:59
team. Um, and my team is phenomenal and
32:01
the success of this company is really a
32:03
testament to them and I, you know, I do
32:06
not take the credit for that. I just
32:07
come on and say random stuff and, you
32:09
know, people laugh sometimes and
32:10
sometimes they don't.
32:12
Um
32:12
>> that's leadership by the way. Yeah.
32:14
>> Well, but it's it but it's also honesty.
32:16
Um
32:18
>> the thing about being a founder that no
32:21
one told me before, but then literally
32:24
months into it, I was like, man, this is
32:26
so lonely. This process is so lonely,
32:29
you know, and then founders, you know,
32:31
that I had talked to prior to launch, it
32:33
was like, oh yeah, it's like the
32:34
loneliest experience that you'll ever.
32:36
And I was like, why didn't you share
32:38
this with me before? you know, I put
32:40
everything I own into this. Um, that was
32:43
the biggest surprise I think for me
32:46
because there's always, I think, an a
32:49
part of the business that you're going
32:51
through or you're thinking about or
32:53
you're worrying about that you either
32:55
can't express fully, you know, to the
32:58
level in in which you're worrying
32:59
because you don't want to like worry
33:01
your other teammates, you know. Um,
33:03
luckily I have some really great people
33:05
that I can be pretty candid with, but
33:08
you know, now that really has alleviated
33:10
that. Plus, my two co-founders are
33:12
great. You know, we've all worked
33:13
together for seven years at this point,
33:14
so we're like family. Um and so from
33:18
that perspective, you know, that
33:19
loneliness or that isolation of the
33:23
process,
33:24
um I say all the time that running your
33:28
own company is not as hard as the mental
33:31
process of running your own company. It
33:33
has taught me so much about myself
33:36
personally than it has in business. Like
33:40
I just I know my triggers more, you
33:42
know. Um
33:46
That is what has been so valuable to me
33:48
is like what I have learned about myself
33:50
and like what I'm willing to have
33:53
boundaries for and what I'm not in my
33:55
personal life um more than my
33:58
professional life which to me has been
34:00
really interesting because the people
34:01
who support you are typically the people
34:04
you least expect and the people you
34:06
expect to support you don't. And it's
34:08
also taught me a lot about who's in my
34:10
corner and who I'm going to devote my
34:11
time to.
34:15
Well, within this community, right, I
34:18
think there's something to be said about
34:20
people who can relate and find relevance
34:23
in the things that we are each
34:24
experiencing. Sometimes they are
34:26
similar, sometimes they're different,
34:27
but we all need to recognize that we're
34:29
all
34:30
>> going through stuff and there are things
34:32
to celebrate and things to recognize. If
34:34
there was I mean, you I've been to your
34:37
events. you bring together incredible
34:39
people um both in in marketing and and
34:43
ad tech and technology, right? If
34:44
there's one piece of advice or something
34:47
that you could share with or for
34:49
marketers trying to build brands that
34:51
matter in the next three to five years,
34:56
is it something that you could
34:58
articulate? Yeah. Pay attention to your
35:00
consumer, not the narrative. like the
35:03
narrative from leadership, any sort of
35:07
leaders, even if you're sitting within
35:08
an organization that maybe, you know, is
35:12
um not following through with previous
35:14
behavior does not reflect what people
35:17
really want. And we see those examples
35:20
all the time. It's like how many more
35:21
times does a brand have to see examples
35:24
from Anthropic and American Eagle and
35:26
Cracker Barrel and then the, you know,
35:28
the default examples of Bud Light and
35:30
Target. Like there's examples all the
35:33
time. And if marketers really don't
35:36
believe that people are feeling this
35:38
way, then why not come out and make a
35:39
statement that, hey, we don't need
35:41
multicultural audiences. They're never
35:42
going to say that because guess what?
35:44
They know that it's the growth
35:46
audiences. They know that they control,
35:48
you know, more of the spending power,
35:50
you know, and those sort of things. And
35:51
so the lack of bravery into making a
35:55
statement like that also is a
35:57
justification of how they really know
35:59
deep down how their consumers are
36:00
behaving. It's why it scares them so
36:02
much. But look, there comes a point
36:04
where you have to start the journey and
36:06
start figuring it out and looking at the
36:08
data and the signals. And the data and
36:10
the signals is all about going back to
36:12
our, you know, original word of
36:13
consistency and knowing who your values
36:16
are and not thinking that it has to be
36:19
these um controversial values, you know,
36:22
like who what kind of consumer is going
36:25
to get upset that you're supporting
36:26
childhood cancer or healthy eating?
36:28
Probably not a customer that you really
36:30
want, you know, and you're not going to
36:32
be able to please everyone. You can't be
36:34
all things to all people. So, brands
36:36
have to understand where they're going
36:38
to play and where they're not.
36:41
Well, I think that
36:43
kind of hopeful
36:45
outlook that is both grounded in reality
36:48
but gives us some clarity about where we
36:51
need to be focusing as an industry is g
36:56
it gives me hope and it gives me you
36:59
know a real sense of belief that
37:02
together if we are aligning on the
37:05
things that matter and measuring the
37:06
things that matter and then of working
37:09
towards that arc and bending towards
37:12
that light that the role that
37:14
advertising and marketing can play um
37:18
really does
37:20
lead us in a positive impactful way. So
37:23
>> yeah,
37:24
>> thank you for what you're doing. Thank
37:25
you for sharing that with us, but also
37:28
giving us that platform to do it.
37:30
>> Yeah. And I'll I'll leave you with one
37:32
comment to and I say this all the time,
37:34
but based on how you just, you know,
37:36
wrapped up the conversation, we're an
37:38
industry built on influence.
37:40
Like we influence consumerism. That's
37:43
why we exist. Why can't we influence
37:46
other things? Like it's not that
37:49
difficult. Like this is what we do. We
37:51
market. We get people to do things
37:53
through advertising and marketing. And
37:55
so therefore, we can actually make a
37:57
positive impact on the world with our
37:59
skill set if we just start thinking
38:01
about it a little bit differently.
38:04
Well, thank you, Chad, for this time and
38:07
look forward to singing with you or
38:11
around you at some point in the near
38:13
future and um hopefully not embarrassing
38:15
myself for a good Yeah,
38:16
>> for both of us, right? Yeah. No, thank
38:18
you so much. I really appreciate it,
38:20
Matt.