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21.02: My Process is Not Your Process · Writing Excuses

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: This episode of Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons and friends.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.patrion.com slash writing excuses.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Season 21, episode 2.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Writing Excuses.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: My process is not your process.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Mary Rabinets.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dungon.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Erin.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: This week, we wanted to start digging into one of our season long topics here, which is we're going to be talking about the barriers to writing, things that get in your way, things that block you from accomplishing the goals that you've set for yourself.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Last week, we talked about intention setting and goals, and now we're going to start talking about ways in which you can start breaking down the things that stand between you and those intentions.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: To do that, we want to talk about process.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Last year, we spent a bunch of time talking about each of our individual processes for getting worked done for accomplishing our goals.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then this episode, we wanted to start shifting away from, here's what we do to start talking about, okay, if they do x, y, and z, how do I figure out what works for me?
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to each of you, in terms of building out what your process looks like, where do you start with that?
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you start with the, I need to figure something else out, I need to change something or figuring it out in the first place.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I spend a lot of time just in my own personal life, not just with writing, trying to figure out why am I not doing the thing?
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to figure out what my barrier is because the thing that I have found is that there's usually a reason that I'm not doing a thing.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've talked before about how humans are mammals
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things my dog trainer said about our dog was that when you have a dog that's reacting to something, the first thing you should do is remove the thing that they're reacting to.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that they're misbehaving.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are having a response to a stimulus.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that when I am, when I'm doing avoidant reaction, and when I'm doing things like that, I am having a response to a stimulus, and I need to figure out what that stimulus is, and how to either remove it or to reshape my reaction to it.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's one of the things that I do when I'm sitting down and trying to figure out, okay, the process is broken.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I find a new process?
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think for me, I look a lot for patterns in my home life and figure out why is something happening.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: A pattern I talked about this on the podcast years ago is that I discovered once that I would start buying lottery scratch-off tickets when I was unhappy at work.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I didn't realize for a long time.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd be like, I just feel like there's periods of my life where I appear to be buying all these lottery scratchoffs.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I lose interest.
• 3:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, what is that about?
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I started paying attention.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, when am I doing this as certain days of the week?
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it when I pass a specific store?
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And eventually I was like, no, it's every time I'm having like really bad day.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm in my mind envisioning that I will win the lottery and never have to go back to work.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is like what's happening beneath the surface, but it required me to notice that I was doing something a bunch.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Think about where else it intersected with things in my life, even things I would not have expected, and then try to figure out what's the tie between them.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I think anytime there's something where it feels like a barrier, I try to figure out what is that barrier tied to?
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where's the pattern?
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because once you know the pattern, you can at least being aware of it, I think sometimes does a lot of the work, and then you can also try to break it down.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I think it really has to start with observation and self-examination.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in a moment right now where I'm rebuilding a bunch of different processes in my life for a variety of reasons.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of which is I've just moved again.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so a sort of thing, okay, now that I'm in this new physical space, also in this different place in my career, also in this different sort of situation with various projects.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: what do I need right now and how do I assemble a process that works for me right so I think starting with what are those barriers like or what are those patterns at least before we even get to the barriers are like what am I currently doing?
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are these things serving me I think is the first thing to start with right in terms of like my day looks like this
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: What my goals for this week were that here's when I actually accomplished here's the stuff that's a problem here's the stuff that's not right and like at least starting with that self assessment I think can be really really helpful in terms of like figuring out do I need to change anything what needs to change and what even is my process right now.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that can work both ways, which is that you can also observe the patterns that are surfing you.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the process episodes, I can't remember which one, which talked about learning how you get yourself to do things, like what gets you past barriers in other aspects of your life.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so if there's something that's like a trick that you figured out that like get you to work when you don't want to go to work or get you to the gym when you're like I'm not sure about this then is there something there that you can mind and figure out well I'm not going to do with the exact same way but there's something at the heart of what I'm doing here that works for me and I can use it to push down the barriers once I figure out what they are.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's an essay, and I can't remember what the exact title of the essay, but it's something along the lines of the cab is the ritual, and the person who's writing it says that they go to the gym every day, but going to the gym, that's not the thing, it's the
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, if they think about all of the things that they need to go to do to get the taxi and they've got all of that stacked up, once they get in the taxi, the ritual is complete.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now they know that everything that follows from that is something that they have previously done before that makes them feel good.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the, but recognizing, oh, okay, if I, if I set, if I set the, once I do this, then that follows.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you set the, once I do this at a lower threshold,
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: then a lot of times, obviously, this is someone in New York who.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's the kind of thing that I think about when I'm hearing you talk, Erin, about like, what are the patterns?
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can I, how can I find a thing?
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I really relate to that because when I was actually trying to go to the gym more in New York, one thing I would do is always change into my gym clothes before I left the office.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I would tell myself, you do not have to go to the gym.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: All you have to do is be in gym clothes and walk past the gym.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can walk past the gym and go home, but you just have to walk past it.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like nine times out of ten, it's like, well, I'm here.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in gym clothes.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's my gym.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: but sometimes I would walk past it and having the permission to sometimes like not be at like just because you figured out a pattern doesn't mean it works 100% of the time or that sometimes the barrier is there for a reason sometimes you're exhausted and you're like my pattern is too right every day but like I can't even keep my eyes open maybe this one time like I can let the pattern go and it won't destroy everything that I've built is something that I think is really nice
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: to be human, because I think sometimes when we think about barriers, it's like if I'm not slaying it every single time, then like I am a failure at breaking down barriers and I might as well not try it.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where the idea of a practice comes back and for me, you know, the difference between an intention and a goal of practice versus a pattern, you know what I mean?
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like having the permission to not do the things sometimes,
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, A, not beat myself up the one time I do slip and I don't do the thing, but also to lower than initiation costs and to getting if I don't have to, if, you know, for me sometimes I feel oppositional to being told to do something, right, a shocking surprise to everyone in my life, but you know, I think lowering that friction can be really, really helpful.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and on the other hand, if you're someone for whom a streak really works and breaking the streak can cause that entire process to collapse, then then what I would say is find the smallest version of that streak because if if you say I always write 2000 words, then and you had a day where you can't because you have the flu.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: then that process is going to collapse on you.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're like, I always open my document.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's like the lowest threshold you can possibly set it at.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then that's something that you can maintain.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But again, like not everybody's brain works the same way.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some people, the streak becomes oppressive.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And other people, if it breaks, it doesn't, you know, so looking at the patterns outside of writing.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny, I have this physical object that is a calendar made by the Maker Simone Yerts or Simone Yerts Gatch and it's a it's a it's a board that has every day of the year on it and when you press it it lights up right so all you do is called the everyday calendar you just like tap it and it like marks that you did a thing that day and it can be used for writing things and when I've tried to use it for like
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to like meditate for 10 minutes every day or I'm going to like go for a five mile run or I'm going to do XYZ, you know, those are the times when I find myself slipping off the I've started using it again recently and all it is is I open my notebook to look at my task list.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: it's not I didn't think I'm that taskless it is not I rewrote is nothing more than I took my notebook I opened it up and looked at it.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I have to do to market.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it having something is very low friction and yet he's letting me mark the thing on the thing so that all lights up and it looks pretty and I'm like, oh, those are the weekends I didn't do it then, you know what I mean?
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is really, really helpful.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes like being that generous with yourself in terms of like, what are the things that need to get me into the mindset?
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like my work version of, yeah, I put on my work at close before I leave the office.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I wanna talk a little bit more about what we actually do once we've lowered that friction a little bit.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But first let's take a quick break.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, before the break, we were talking about sort of like, how we managed to reduce the friction when we're building out our processes.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: When we're starting to figure out what are the things that we can do that make it a little bit easier to activate whenever we need to do the thing.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So then, I think the next question is, well, okay, so we figured out how to lower the friction, what do I do next?
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So once you've lowered that friction, how do you start taking that next step?
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you identify?
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the next thing that I need to be doing in the chain.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: For me, it's often like, okay, I've opened that notebook.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I looked at the thing, what are the useful steps I can take from this point, right?
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes that is as simple as, okay, rewrite the list, remake that list.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it is, oh, this is remind me of this email that I forgot to send last night that I got to send right now.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I find that I have similar things with, like, if I use my checklist, if I use my notebook, I'm much better, but what I also find when I'm trying to figure out a process, a routine, a ritual, whatever that is,
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: is that if I can link things together so that there's kind of a natural flow that it is, again, it's part of the reducing the function.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that sometimes the way I figure that out is by doing what Erin talked about, just looking at patterns for, oh, here's something that I'm eager to do.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And look at the things that I'm eager to do, think about why I'm eager to do those, and then how I can either attach the thing that I, the next thing to something that I'm eager to do, or how I can re-engineer the thing that I don't wanna do into something that has similar properties to the thing I'm eager to do.
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, I'm a big fan of what you're eager,
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: attaching things together that wouldn't otherwise be attached.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: One thing that I will sometimes do is not to make everything about working out.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when I get hungry, I'm thinking like the best time to have food in my opinion is right after you worked out.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he's like, this is delicious.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so when I get hungry, I think I'm hungry.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a sign that I should go workout.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so that I can have the most delicious food ever.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so like I turned like this one body signal into a signal to do another thing.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: As opposed to thinking like, oh, when am I going to work out today?
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh my gosh, like beginning signs of hunger.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, maybe like let's go.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so that is something.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I also will cook food while I have an air fire while I'm working out.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so like as I'm working out, the food, I can smell it.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like I have all dogging myself into associating.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: exercise with getting delicious food and so therefore I'm like creating a way not just to like lower friction but to create some sort of like this tie between things that may not be tied except I force them to be.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: that that's really interesting because you actually just reminded me of a thing that I was like I that works for me, but I've kind of forgotten that I did because it's been working for so long which is I realized at some point that when I am writing or avoiding writing as the case maybe but when I when I reach for my phone that it's because the task in front of me is hard and I'm fleeing.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can't, like, that impulse is hard to break.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what I've retrained myself is that when I reach for my phone instead of opening social media, I have an app called Sweepy, which will present you with one task that you should do around the house and they're like five minute tasks.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I go and I do the five-minute task, and that gives me a little bit of time away from the computer.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have accomplished a thing, so I feel better, something about my house is a little bit tidier, and also because it's a non-narrative thing that I'm doing, it gives me time to kind of think about the thing, and then I can go back.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if I, you know, if I know about again that I will do sometimes two or three household chores and then I'm But usually that is enough for me to kind of get away at whereas when I pick up my phone and I go into social media I'm in there like the rest of the days.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I really like about both of your examples is when I think about getting stuck in Process right when I think about like oh my process isn't serving me in some way
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the physical, the physicality of it, the embodiment of myself in that process becomes really important for me to think about too.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And those are simple things like, do I need water?
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Am I hungry, right?
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Have I been outside today?
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Am I just like in my like dark office, starring in my screen, or do I need to get up and walk around?
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Try to go stretch.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I go outside.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or even, like, do I need to change the set up of my office, right?
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: If is the problem that I'm not getting a natural light, maybe I should actually open my curtains for once.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think those things in observing and thinking about those processes, not just as like abstract work, but also remembering that you are a person who unfortunately has a body and has to be in the work.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think also like, I like to treat myself like I am my own like nicest assistant, which like sometimes you're doing something and it's a small stress.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like I like to drink cans of soda while I'm writing and for a long time I would just like put them on the side of the desk and then it's like their messy and they're there and I thought like if I was a really nice
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would buy myself like a tiny trash can so that like I could put all my cans in the recycling and they would be behind me I wouldn't have to see them and then when I took them downstairs I would feel like great now it's not bothering me Yeah, and I think a lot of times like my instinctive response to a small bother will be like I should not be bothered by that
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas my lovely assistant version of me or like my like good partner version of me would be like well how can we actually just not have that bother you at all as opposed to you becoming unbothered by it and so now at a lot of times if something is like a very small thing in my space.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't feel like it affects the writing, but it like at some times I'll be like oh there's always cancer like oh I should go, you know I should go do this I should go do that I'm such a messy person and then like gets me out of the of the flow.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah in a way that putting something the trash can never does.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: you said something that like what what kind of gift can I like some and that I think is one of the biggest things you can do because we give really good advice to our friends.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of us do.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You listen to give really good advice to your friend.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So one of the things that I was doing for a little while when I was at a point where I was this was right after after a mom had died when I was trying to rebuild my process.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I started writing the end of the day, I would write deer past self.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here are all the things you did really well today.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I got up in the morning, I would write deer future self.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here are the challenges that you're facing.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here are some strategies to help you get past those things.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that helped so much.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think, you can do that.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing that you can do for yourself about your writing process, about anything else.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your past self.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the stuff.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the first time I did it, my instinct was, wow, you really messed up today.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, that's not how it's say this to a friend.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: How would I say this to a friend?
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there were a lot of challenges, and you worked really hard to get past them.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here are the things you did anyway.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a thing I say about relationships sometimes it's like your partner should treat you at least as well as they would treat a stranger You know, you mean in terms of like politeness or consideration because like that and you completely derailed me by being like you should treat yourself at least as good as your relationship Well, damn
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got to think about that one for a second.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a little uncomfortable there.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So those are things, you know, I think what we keep saying here is, you know, ask yourself questions, pay attention to patterns, like trust your reactions.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're having a bad reaction to something, that's from a stimulus.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to reshape that or remove it in some way.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was just thinking that, which is that sometimes like a process like we may have said something during this podcast or previous where you're like, no, do not want hate it for me.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think like pay attention to that.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just because somebody is not you, you know, doesn't mean that they know better than you.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, they probably don't.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think sometimes we are willing to like listen to other people tell us how we should be as opposed to listening to what we know about ourselves.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that, and I think that's a perfect segue into our homework, which is, I want you to start taking those first steps towards listening to yourself.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my homework for you is to make a list of all the steps that go into your writing process.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Start small, start with the little things, and work outwards towards the big macro things that you need to keep moving forward in your writing, right?
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Start with,
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like to write at this time.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like to use this keyboard at this computer and use this program.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I need to write for this amount of time.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it is, just make a list.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Free associate it, don't put to my stress on it.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then work backwards to the, I need to feel a certain way.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need my environment to be a certain way.
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: and once you've made that list, just go through and consider if each of these items are serving you in this process or not, and are they something you want to change?
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to know how yet.
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: All I'm asking you to do at this point is observe and feel and see what your process actually is.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: This has been writing excuses.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're out of excuses.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: They'll go right.
• 20:30
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• 20:34
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