Latest / The Steve Harvey Morning Show / Rushion Interviews Best Selling Author and Civil Rights Leader Ben Jealous and Alliance for Safety and Justice co-founder, Lenore Anderson

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Rushion Interviews Best Selling Author and Civil Rights Leader Ben Jealous and Alliance for Safety and Justice co-founder, Lenore Anderson · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

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Speaker 1: or living your dreams. We're always discussing how to overcome
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Speaker 1: the arts in life. My guest today is a perfect
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Speaker 1: guest and discussing that Matter's name is Ben Jealous, Business
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Speaker 1: in New York Times bestselling author, scholar, journalists, civil rights leader,
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Speaker 1: and philanthropists. Currently serve as President of the CEO or
1:55
Speaker 1: People for the American Way and Professor of the Practice
1:59
Speaker 1: University of pennsil He was formerly when I met him,
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Speaker 1: president of the CEO of the NAACP, the youngest one
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Speaker 1: at the time and great leader. Man. I always find
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Speaker 1: great time and great conversations when I was managing Steve
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Speaker 1: Harvey at the time director of the Human Rights Program
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Speaker 1: at amerstad to National USA and executive director of the
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Speaker 1: National Newspaper Publishers Association. He's on the show to discuss
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Speaker 1: this new book, never to forget our people are always free. Wow,
2:24
Speaker 1: people should always remember that. Please work with the money
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Speaker 1: making conversations, masterclass, being jealous. How are you doing, sir.
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Speaker 1: It's always good to see you, sir. Great to be
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Speaker 1: great to be with. Hey, Ben, you know when I
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Speaker 1: read that title, you know, you look at how society
2:38
Speaker 1: or you look how people are pushing back on trying
2:41
Speaker 1: to understand our history and saying, hey, you know, you
2:45
Speaker 1: know our children maybe feel uncomfortable learning about America and
2:50
Speaker 1: how it was really built. And then but information that
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Speaker 1: it was so much information I took from your book,
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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna just say this in a very comical way,
2:59
Speaker 1: because there were so many lanes of ethnicity or they white,
3:04
Speaker 1: they have white, they black, they black white. This is
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Speaker 1: not a book. Ladies and gentlemen, did you skim through
3:09
Speaker 1: because you might not know if you skim past this
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Speaker 1: person was white, this person was black. So you really
3:15
Speaker 1: really really taught me a lesson on this book. Been
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Speaker 1: I better read every page very very carefully. I know
3:23
Speaker 1: that wouldn't a trick moved, but that was a detail
3:26
Speaker 1: of how you would putting in perspective racial understanding of
3:29
Speaker 1: this country and how the racists have intermingled over the years. Correct, yes,
3:35
Speaker 1: so you know I was not just trying to decode
3:39
Speaker 1: some of My grandma would always say, when is that
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Speaker 1: happened to be? The title? The books say, never forget
3:44
Speaker 1: our people were always free? And well three of her
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Speaker 1: four grandparents were born into slavery, and the fourth one,
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Speaker 1: my grandma's sister, would tell you had raped one of
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Speaker 1: my grandmother's grandmother. So my question to her was like,
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Speaker 1: well who was free though rapist? Like this doesn't make
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Speaker 1: any sense, right, right, right, right. But the funny thing,
4:03
Speaker 1: you know, our elders can say things and we hear
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Speaker 1: them say it, and we sort of we internalized the
4:09
Speaker 1: sound and we internalized the way it feels, and then
4:12
Speaker 1: we say it without critically thinking about the meeting of
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Speaker 1: the words, and my grandmother's grandmother said that her mother
4:19
Speaker 1: said that, as far as we can tell, the grandmother's
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Speaker 1: Before that, I saw my sister start to repeat it,
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Speaker 1: and as a civil rights guy, I was just like,
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Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense, Like what do you mean.
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Speaker 1: Henry Lewis Gates Junior helped me trace my grandmother's maternal
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Speaker 1: line where the saying echoing down right, and then we
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Speaker 1: found the place where it made sense the very beginning.
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Speaker 1: The first woman to come and my grandmother's maternal line
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Speaker 1: to America. The matriarch of our maternal line was an
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Speaker 1: Afro Polynesian pirate from Madagascar. Only seventeen slave ships come
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Speaker 1: to what is now the United States from Madagascar. Nine
5:03
Speaker 1: of them land in Virginia, eight land in New York.
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Speaker 1: All but one of them was piloted by a known
5:09
Speaker 1: European pirate. These were not traditional slave ships. These were
5:14
Speaker 1: ships from a pirate war, and when the European pirates
5:17
Speaker 1: would win a battle, they would occasionally enslave the able
5:20
Speaker 1: bodied people in the village and ship them to America
5:23
Speaker 1: to be sold. And well, if the women kept repeating this,
5:27
Speaker 1: you go all the way back to the first one
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Speaker 1: in the United States. What else would a pirate woman
5:31
Speaker 1: say to her children and grandchildren born into slavery, but
5:35
Speaker 1: never forget our people who are always free, And and
5:38
Speaker 1: how would she say it? She would say it as
5:40
Speaker 1: a call to insurrection. A people who knew that their
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Speaker 1: people had been free are people who would then decide
5:48
Speaker 1: that freedom must be their destiny and that they would
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Speaker 1: fight for it. And so this was a battle cry
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Speaker 1: is handed down through the generations. In my family, we
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Speaker 1: know battle cry, you know. I come from Inner City,
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Speaker 1: six usters, two brothers, both my parents when was a
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Speaker 1: truck driver, thirty grade education. Mom graduated from high school,
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Speaker 1: had an option to go to college, but she had
6:09
Speaker 1: nine kids and so I raised me as best as
6:13
Speaker 1: you can. I think she did a good job, all
6:14
Speaker 1: of us. And we look at when we look at
6:17
Speaker 1: the perspective of how African America are people a couple
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Speaker 1: have perceived in this country. What is your take on
6:23
Speaker 1: that by the by the media, Yes, you know, it's
6:30
Speaker 1: it hurts everybody. You know, we were prior to the
6:36
Speaker 1: Civil Rights movement, images of the poor in America were
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Speaker 1: of white people. After the Civil Rights movement, one of
6:42
Speaker 1: the ironic things that changed was virtually all of the
6:45
Speaker 1: images in the media poor people are back black and
6:48
Speaker 1: brown people. It hurts black and brown people because you know,
6:51
Speaker 1: we we walk into a room and people assume that
6:55
Speaker 1: we're an extension of the headline or the photograph they
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Speaker 1: just saw the newspaper. Right. It also hurts a lot
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Speaker 1: of poor what people because when the images shift shifted,
7:04
Speaker 1: so did public support for anything public, public housing, public education,
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Speaker 1: public health. All of a sudden, the imagination is that
7:12
Speaker 1: just helps black and brown people. And if most of
7:14
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest group of citizens are white, they're like, well,
7:17
Speaker 1: why should we support that? That's not about us? And
7:20
Speaker 1: yet the biggest group of poor has always been one
7:23
Speaker 1: absolutely and you know, so the racism makes the poverty
7:26
Speaker 1: in our community hyper visible, and it makes the probably
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Speaker 1: in the white community invisible, and both groups suffer. That
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Speaker 1: is absolutely truth. I always say that, you know, you know,
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Speaker 1: you you popularize in the stereotype, but you heard in
7:42
Speaker 1: the real problem. And that's what you're just stating right there. Well,
7:46
Speaker 1: put and I'd give you an example of that. You know,
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Speaker 1: I'm from Baltimore. My mom grew up in the housing
7:50
Speaker 1: projects there, and a lot of my cousins lived not
7:53
Speaker 1: too far there from and in Baltimore. For like eighty years,
7:57
Speaker 1: the only discussion of opiate addiction was about rowin and heroin.
8:01
Speaker 1: Addicts were stereotyped as black, and the attitude was lock
8:04
Speaker 1: them up right, And then sheriffs and the mid South,
8:09
Speaker 1: the Midwest and other places in the in the early
8:12
Speaker 1: two thousands got increasingly uncomfortable with the fact that they
8:15
Speaker 1: kept catching bodies, you know, they kept picking up corpses
8:20
Speaker 1: of people overdosing on opiates, and nobody was talking about
8:24
Speaker 1: increasing rehab. Nobody was talking about dealing with the addiction epidemic.
8:28
Speaker 1: And so they started publishing the faces of the corpses
8:31
Speaker 1: the people who were dying in their community. Well, the
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Speaker 1: majority were white. And suddenly the public policy conversation shifted.
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Speaker 1: And my book Never Forget We're Always Free, Never forgot
8:41
Speaker 1: our people were always free. I go, you know, I
8:43
Speaker 1: talked about this. Suddenly the policy debate went from like
8:46
Speaker 1: eighty years of nonsense trying to treat addicts like criminals
8:50
Speaker 1: to those common sense was given more rehab, we have
8:54
Speaker 1: to deal with this as a health crisis again, because
8:56
Speaker 1: the full face of the problem was visible. I was
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Speaker 1: speaking Ben Jealous's book Never Forget how people were always free?
9:03
Speaker 1: Before I go back into the book, you know when
9:05
Speaker 1: I met you and you remember we're always setting up
9:07
Speaker 1: interviewers on the Steve Harvor Morning Show. In regards to
9:10
Speaker 1: interview and you getting the word out, the NCP voting
9:14
Speaker 1: and everything, Yep, absolutely, Um, when you look at social
9:17
Speaker 1: media and technology, has technology helped the NCP in your eyes?
9:23
Speaker 1: Are just because it's always because the title has always
9:26
Speaker 1: been an issue colored people, and some people say that
9:30
Speaker 1: title has has seen as time. When you look at
9:34
Speaker 1: where the NAACP, because it definitely still serves a purpose.
9:36
Speaker 1: It's still is our primary voice when we're when when
9:39
Speaker 1: civil rights issues are being challenged, who's the first challenges
9:42
Speaker 1: but nab ATP. So when you look at technology, has
9:46
Speaker 1: technology helped position h the NCP in modern times? You know,
9:52
Speaker 1: I am when I started, the NACP had thirty thousand
9:59
Speaker 1: people on its mobile list. No, I'm sorry, we had
10:03
Speaker 1: five thousand. We had five thousand texts, you know, phone
10:05
Speaker 1: numbers we could organize people with. We had one hundred
10:08
Speaker 1: and seventy five thousand email addresses. When I left, we
10:11
Speaker 1: had one point four million email addresses we had four
10:14
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thousand mobile phone numbers, and technology definitely
10:17
Speaker 1: makes it easier to organize. Now. On the other hand, Facebook,
10:23
Speaker 1: which works on algorithms, has become a massive rabbit hole
10:28
Speaker 1: for for conspiracy theorists, and it has helped to multiply
10:33
Speaker 1: hate groups and combine them with each other. So now
10:36
Speaker 1: you have al Kada talking to white supremacists, for instance,
10:39
Speaker 1: and you have the you know, the the the old KGB,
10:45
Speaker 1: it's a new acronym uh fomenting white supremacists. So technology,
10:52
Speaker 1: i'd say, is a mixed back. But as an organizer,
10:56
Speaker 1: it's made it a lot easier. When I was with
10:58
Speaker 1: the black newspapers helping eighty of them online eight or
11:00
Speaker 1: online when I started two years later, we brought eighty online.
11:04
Speaker 1: So I'm all for embracing technology to spread good information
11:08
Speaker 1: in our community, to organize people better. We do have
11:11
Speaker 1: to recognize though, that social media and the algorithms have
11:16
Speaker 1: definitely made it easier for the hate groups to multiply,
11:19
Speaker 1: and we need and frankly the companies need to shut
11:22
Speaker 1: that that aspect down. They got to figure out how
11:25
Speaker 1: to stop spreading hate absolutely, you know, and that you know, Hayden.
11:31
Speaker 1: Some ways. I always tell people, you know, when you
11:33
Speaker 1: have the algorithm, that's what people say, you know, succeeded
11:36
Speaker 1: and allowed Some people up said the reason President Trump
11:40
Speaker 1: was elected because he had the algorithm to be able
11:43
Speaker 1: to talk to the people he needed to talk to,
11:45
Speaker 1: convince him, convince him of this rhetoric or these stereotyped
11:49
Speaker 1: information that basically in some ways out of fear, they
11:53
Speaker 1: voted for him because they didn't they thought it was
11:55
Speaker 1: about this was about to happen if he wasn't elected president.
11:58
Speaker 1: But you have a well, I gotta tell you, man,
12:01
Speaker 1: like the the context for authoritarian movements in our society
12:09
Speaker 1: is always poverty. Yes, you know, we we have let
12:13
Speaker 1: too many black folks and too many white folks, and
12:16
Speaker 1: entire communities and even sections of states. You and I
12:20
Speaker 1: know a lot of those sections of states. Well, they're
12:22
Speaker 1: in Texas, there in Louisiana, there in Mississippi, in Alabama,
12:25
Speaker 1: and they're in New York State. They're in Pennsylvania, are
12:27
Speaker 1: in California too, And there's entire communities I feel like
12:31
Speaker 1: they are forgotten, and white men who don't have college
12:36
Speaker 1: degrees feeling the Democratic Party doesn't even think about them.
12:39
Speaker 1: And black men without college degrees often feel the same
12:43
Speaker 1: way too. And so if we really want to stop
12:49
Speaker 1: the growth of authoritarian movements and hate movements and those
12:52
Speaker 1: who would turn our democracy into a mockery, we have
12:56
Speaker 1: to get back to what doctor King was calling all
12:58
Speaker 1: of us to do when he was assassin. He was
13:00
Speaker 1: not assassinated leading a desegregation battle. He was assassinated leading
13:05
Speaker 1: the poor people's campaign. You know, when you know the uh,
13:09
Speaker 1: the co Intel program, the FBI right wasn't just about
13:13
Speaker 1: he said, prevent the rise of Black Messiah. They weren't
13:16
Speaker 1: worried about a black person leading black people. That were
13:18
Speaker 1: fine with that. They were most worried about a black
13:20
Speaker 1: person leading the poor. And that's why there was celebration
13:24
Speaker 1: so many FBI offices with doctor King's assassinated. Wow. You know,
13:28
Speaker 1: um information is everybody. I'm talking speaking of Ben Jealous.
13:33
Speaker 1: We're talking about his book Never Get Our People are
13:36
Speaker 1: always free in reference to who we are in a
13:39
Speaker 1: world that tends to say that you're limited based on
13:42
Speaker 1: the color of your skin. That's always been the challenge.
13:44
Speaker 1: You know, you have a light complexion tone in your book,
13:47
Speaker 1: you know you talk about different experiences. Some of them
13:50
Speaker 1: are you know, when you look at it, you know
13:51
Speaker 1: it can be sperceived as humors. I talked to you
13:54
Speaker 1: before the interview. We talked about the Renaissance Festival, and I,
13:56
Speaker 1: my wife and I we go to the Renaissance Festival.
13:59
Speaker 1: We dress up and we by these giant turkey legs
14:01
Speaker 1: and and for some reason we thought were fitting in.
14:04
Speaker 1: But it was fun. And then you said, hey, this
14:07
Speaker 1: is not the ring Stuce festival that you have used to.
14:09
Speaker 1: This was a gathering. And at that gathering you found
14:12
Speaker 1: you you found. It was a profound moment because because
14:16
Speaker 1: you found the relative and in a part of the
14:19
Speaker 1: country that you didn't expect. You're just going there just
14:21
Speaker 1: to be social. Now when you get you talk about Gates,
14:25
Speaker 1: that's what he does. So when you were sitting down,
14:27
Speaker 1: you knew exactly what he was doing and you wanted
14:30
Speaker 1: to get the information. When you found out that gathering,
14:33
Speaker 1: sitting next to somebody, that had to be an eye opener.
14:36
Speaker 1: And as you said, you gulped on your drink several times. Yeah, no,
14:39
Speaker 1: I mean I literally, you know, I sit down next
14:42
Speaker 1: to this this couple, she's younger than her that it
14:46
Speaker 1: looked like maybe fifteen years like that was the most
14:49
Speaker 1: interesting thing, I guess. So I started taking out where
14:51
Speaker 1: are y'all from? Right? He's like, loose ghettos. I'm like
14:54
Speaker 1: anybody from there? That was an apport when I was
14:56
Speaker 1: a kid. Where are you from? He's like, I'm from
14:58
Speaker 1: were your wife from southern Virginia? And where is the
15:00
Speaker 1: jam Petersburg? Or my family's in Petersburg? What's her? What's
15:03
Speaker 1: her family names? And I'm like, I mean, I'm a
15:05
Speaker 1: little buzzed at this point. After a cocktails and and
15:11
Speaker 1: and he says, well, her maiden name is Bland. Well,
15:14
Speaker 1: my grandmother's maiden name is Bland. So I cut him off.
15:17
Speaker 1: I say Bland because yeah, Bland. He was wise. Oh brother,
15:20
Speaker 1: I don't know how to put this, but I think
15:21
Speaker 1: your wife's family is telling my mom's family. And I'm
15:27
Speaker 1: looking at this lady. He's staring you say what did
15:32
Speaker 1: I do? You said you think that your wife's family
15:35
Speaker 1: may have owned your mom's fair? Yeah, him, I think
15:39
Speaker 1: your wife's family. You know, he's from Minnesota, so he
15:42
Speaker 1: has he ain't prepared, you know, he based this because baby,
15:45
Speaker 1: we gotta push seats out, you know, the problem and
15:49
Speaker 1: today seat and he looks at me right right, and
15:51
Speaker 1: I'm looking at her. I'm like, wow, you look like
15:53
Speaker 1: my grandma. He's looking at me like, oh yeah, baby,
15:57
Speaker 1: give me a kiss. How you I have black family?
16:00
Speaker 1: And I'm like, because who was like eighty years old,
16:02
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, it's like give her. It gives
16:05
Speaker 1: her on the cheating right right right right? And and
16:08
Speaker 1: Henry Little Skates Junior years later would uh verify, would
16:14
Speaker 1: get our DNA and prove that we we just send
16:17
Speaker 1: from the same plantation owner. We both to send from
16:19
Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson's grandma. We were related a couple of different ways. Uh,
16:24
Speaker 1: should we include our Robert Robert Elie Robert Lee? Yeah? Man,
16:29
Speaker 1: can we let that slide this conversation? Bit? Did we
16:31
Speaker 1: let that slide in this conversation? You know, Robert E. Lee?
16:35
Speaker 1: That's different conversation. Talk about dabilization. Well that was the thing, right.
16:41
Speaker 1: So We're both members of the Blands family. And so
16:43
Speaker 1: I'm writing the book and I'm like, oh, we just
16:46
Speaker 1: go on Wikipedia. The Blands are one of the founding
16:49
Speaker 1: families of Virginia. They signed the Declaration Independence all that stuff.
16:53
Speaker 1: So it was like let me just go on there
16:55
Speaker 1: and see who else descends from the Bland family. And
16:59
Speaker 1: I see Robert Lee. I'm I'm the former president and ACP,
17:04
Speaker 1: and the former head of the Confederate Army was my cousin. Wow,
17:07
Speaker 1: but it got deeper, man, it got deeper. Here's the thing. So,
17:11
Speaker 1: Richard Yates Bland, who was the man who owned my
17:15
Speaker 1: grandmother's grandfather and my grandmother's great grandfather and their families,
17:22
Speaker 1: has one paragraph in his will protecting my grandmother's great grandfather,
17:27
Speaker 1: and it's the only slave person that he mentioned in
17:29
Speaker 1: his will. And he has multiple sentences defining what the
17:33
Speaker 1: rest of his life shall be like, clearly protecting him. Right,
17:36
Speaker 1: And between that and my DNA, Harry Louise Gates Junior concluded,
17:42
Speaker 1: your great grandfather was the owner's older brother, and the
17:45
Speaker 1: owner knew it. He was older brother by six years older,
17:48
Speaker 1: half brother. They would have grown up in the same nursery.
17:52
Speaker 1: They would have understood that they shared blood, that they
17:54
Speaker 1: shared a father, and the younger brother, who was the owner,
17:59
Speaker 1: was the older brother was dying and he wanted to
18:02
Speaker 1: protect his brother, right, He wanted to protect his brother.
18:07
Speaker 1: The you know it was it didn't really were taught
18:10
Speaker 1: that race as a wall, were taught that, you know,
18:13
Speaker 1: plantations were these terribly inhumane places and they were Nothing
18:18
Speaker 1: really prepares you to find a slave owner protecting his
18:21
Speaker 1: brother who was enslaved in a will and then you realize,
18:26
Speaker 1: you know, that's your great great grandfather, and then you
18:29
Speaker 1: realize that he knew that. And the Blands were big
18:34
Speaker 1: supporters of the Confederacy of the White Blands, and they
18:37
Speaker 1: were very proud that Robert E. Lee was their cousin.
18:40
Speaker 1: So when my grandmother's great grandfather and a grandfather and
18:43
Speaker 1: the you know, the entire family walked out of slavery
18:45
Speaker 1: in the last day of the Civil War, right after
18:47
Speaker 1: the Battle of Aplthematics, they walked out knowing that the
18:51
Speaker 1: man who just surrendered was their cousin. And the question
18:55
Speaker 1: is what impact does it have on the people? And
18:57
Speaker 1: I would say because it goes back to what word
18:58
Speaker 1: you use earlier, hubris, Because they come right out of
19:02
Speaker 1: slavery and they ultimately take over the state. My grandmother's grandfather,
19:05
Speaker 1: the son you know of the great grandfather who was
19:09
Speaker 1: the brother of the owner, the nephew of the owner,
19:12
Speaker 1: fifteen years later is the head of the Black Republicans
19:15
Speaker 1: in Virginia. He's in his early thirties. The Ha Tilden
19:21
Speaker 1: Compromise was signed that ended reconstruction. That's how the black
19:24
Speaker 1: soldiers got shifted out to the west to become Buffalo soldiers,
19:28
Speaker 1: you know, fighting the Indians and um. And yet Jim
19:34
Speaker 1: Crow hadn't started yet. There were still large number of
19:37
Speaker 1: blacks in the legislature and the plantation owners them were
19:41
Speaker 1: going to shut down these public schools, and the poor
19:44
Speaker 1: whites rebelled like like, heck you are. I mean, I
19:47
Speaker 1: know that these black dominated governments started them, but our
19:49
Speaker 1: kids benefited from them. And he ends up joining up
19:52
Speaker 1: with a former Confederate general. They build a populist movement,
19:55
Speaker 1: multi racial takeover the Virginia government. Former Confederate soldiers formerly
20:00
Speaker 1: enslavement and take over the Virginia government. They expanned Virginia
20:04
Speaker 1: Tech to make it the workingman's rival the UVA to
20:06
Speaker 1: create the first public HBCU Virginia State, first public south
20:10
Speaker 1: of the Mason Dixon, I should say Virginia State. They
20:15
Speaker 1: saved the public schools for all the children. They abolished
20:17
Speaker 1: the whipping post. And here's the key part. They abolished
20:20
Speaker 1: the poll Tex. And why is that important? Because you
20:25
Speaker 1: know less than twenty years later the poll Tex will
20:27
Speaker 1: be put into the into the Constitution of Virginia. And
20:31
Speaker 1: we're always told that that was like an attack on
20:34
Speaker 1: black power, and it was disenfranchise eighty percent of blacks,
20:37
Speaker 1: but it also disfranchised fifty percent of whites. In other words,
20:42
Speaker 1: it outlawed the populist party that my grandmother's grandfather and
20:47
Speaker 1: where David Gland was his name, and Robert excuse me,
20:50
Speaker 1: and William B. Mahone, the protege Robert E. Lee had created. Man,
20:56
Speaker 1: did they ever teach you in school that former Confederates,
21:00
Speaker 1: former slaves got together and created a political party that
21:02
Speaker 1: took over multiple states for Junia, North Carolina. Heck no.
21:05
Speaker 1: And that's why made me mad about these statements. Dave
21:10
Speaker 1: Chappelle we met and became really really good friends. And uh,
21:14
Speaker 1: several years ago, I was in hen Sa Dame, about
21:17
Speaker 1: fifteen years and uh, I was in La and I
21:20
Speaker 1: was at the outside of the four season hotel and
21:22
Speaker 1: got in and somebody ran in and said, Hey, somebody
21:25
Speaker 1: want to see you, and it was Dave Chappelle. And
21:28
Speaker 1: when you when you talk about my relationship with Davesville
21:31
Speaker 1: started from a comedic standpoint. We did isbo dev commy jam.
21:35
Speaker 1: Now I look at the youngest member of the n
21:37
Speaker 1: WCP who leads the pack of change. You see what
21:41
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle is today. He's a voice of reason, He's
21:44
Speaker 1: a vorce of honesty. What is your relationship all about? Friendship?
21:48
Speaker 1: His dad and mind dad were best friends. His father's
21:51
Speaker 1: my godfather, was my godfather. Go God rest his soul.
21:54
Speaker 1: Our fathers are both civil rights organizers. And Dave was
21:59
Speaker 1: said to me a bit like Paddington Bear. I'd been
22:02
Speaker 1: in New York for a year. His father was deeply
22:05
Speaker 1: worried because Dave would be the first man in the
22:08
Speaker 1: family to go sorry, the first man in the family
22:11
Speaker 1: not to go to college, since slavery is all the
22:14
Speaker 1: men in his family had been educated. David's name for
22:17
Speaker 1: Bishop William David Chappelle, who's kind of like the Paul
22:20
Speaker 1: of the am Church. A great expectation for men in
22:24
Speaker 1: that family. His father had gone to Brown University at
22:27
Speaker 1: age fifteen, and I had been in New York a
22:29
Speaker 1: year before Dave, even though we're only six months apart.
22:32
Speaker 1: And he said, look, I wanted to look out for
22:33
Speaker 1: my son in New York, and I wanted to tell
22:35
Speaker 1: him how much you led college, and so he knows
22:37
Speaker 1: it's an option if comedy doesn't work. You and I
22:39
Speaker 1: probably came across each other at the Boston Comedy Club.
22:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely I was I was the brother. Every thought it
22:46
Speaker 1: was Puerto Rican before you wid work in this Puerto Rican.
22:49
Speaker 1: So on the Chipland circle at a comedy the Still
22:51
Speaker 1: Brothers will come up by Chappelle's nole pointo Rican bodyguard. Goodness,
22:54
Speaker 1: see you brother, you know to take it. I'm proud,
22:57
Speaker 1: you know fine, I love it. You know. The first
23:01
Speaker 1: time Dave and I hung out as teenagers, we were eighteen,
23:04
Speaker 1: and I watched Dave step into the circle down near
23:07
Speaker 1: the Boston Comedy Club and Washington Square Park where Charlie
23:11
Speaker 1: Burnett would make all his money. Amazing. This is outdoor comedy, people,
23:16
Speaker 1: and that's all ways tell people. People say Dave Schappelle
23:19
Speaker 1: because Dave Schappelle did comedy outdoors, which is means people
23:22
Speaker 1: could walk by you and you had to stop him.
23:25
Speaker 1: And Charlie Burnette, God bless his soul, one of the
23:29
Speaker 1: brilliant street comedians who made his way into mainstream who
23:32
Speaker 1: passed away way before his time. Yeah, and so Dave
23:35
Speaker 1: takes over the circle and washing Spurt Park and you
23:38
Speaker 1: August Day, two hundred tourists. Dave made seven hundred and
23:41
Speaker 1: fifty bucks and fifteen minutes. And I long story short, said, man,
23:47
Speaker 1: don't worry about I'm gonna call you day. I tell
23:48
Speaker 1: him everything. But I call my godfather. I said, look,
23:51
Speaker 1: I just watched your son make seven hundred fifty bucks
23:54
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, doing nothing illegal, just bringing joy. Everything's gonna
23:58
Speaker 1: be okay. And so you know, I've always been like
24:02
Speaker 1: a consiguliaria Dave ever since. You know, when he really
24:06
Speaker 1: needs to figure something out in business or whatever, we
24:08
Speaker 1: put heads together and we tigure out. I want to
24:11
Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to come on Money
24:12
Speaker 1: Making Conversations, Mastercal I would teations in been we never talked.
24:16
Speaker 1: You know, we're just doing our service, and part of
24:18
Speaker 1: my service is bringing your voice to the community. And
24:20
Speaker 1: this book is amazing. I'll never get our people were
24:24
Speaker 1: always free. Written by Ben Jealous. Thank you for coming
24:26
Speaker 1: on Money Making Conversies, Masterclass. Thank you. We'll be right
24:29
Speaker 1: back with more Money Making Conversations Masterclass. With Rushan McDonald,
24:33
Speaker 1: it's time to accomplish what others deem impossible. Supreme Court
24:37
Speaker 1: Justice Katan J. Brown Jackson became the first Black woman
24:40
Speaker 1: to serve on the country's hires Court. This historical woman
24:44
Speaker 1: comes fifty five years after Justice Third Good Marshal's confirmation
24:47
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24:58
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25:03
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25:08
Speaker 1: They enroll twenty percent of African American students, and despite
25:12
Speaker 1: constituting only three percent of four year colleges in the country,
25:15
Speaker 1: HBCUs have produced eighty percent of black judges, fifty percent
25:20
Speaker 1: of black lawyers, fifty percent of black doctors, forty percent
25:25
Speaker 1: of black engineers. HBCUs represent Black excellence. If you attend
25:30
Speaker 1: or are an alumnus of an HBCU, we want to
25:33
Speaker 1: hear about your story. The My HBCU Story Digital Library
25:37
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26:00
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Speaker 1: The goal is to use your my HBCU story to
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Speaker 1: promote and uplift the HPCU brand. Your HBCU prepared you
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Speaker 1: your black excellence. More information is available at HBCU college
26:23
Speaker 1: day dot com. You can click my HBCU story to
26:27
Speaker 1: share your story. You are now tuned into the Money
26:31
Speaker 1: Making Conversations Minute of Inspiration with Rashaan McDonald. Hi, I'm
26:35
Speaker 1: Rashan McDonald for Money Making Conversation Masterclass with your daily
26:38
Speaker 1: Minute of Inspiration. My guest today is demand the comedian
26:42
Speaker 1: the Legend, George Wallace. He talks about the importance of
26:45
Speaker 1: changing with your times and innovating your reason why came
26:49
Speaker 1: to Twitter was because I had I just wanted to
26:52
Speaker 1: be a part you gotta keep state relevant. You gotta
26:55
Speaker 1: do what. I love the young people, what they're doing.
26:57
Speaker 1: Some people are not even going to television anymore. Right,
27:00
Speaker 1: there's a comedian named country Ways. Nobody know who the
27:04
Speaker 1: heath he is, but true social media, he sells out everywhere.
27:08
Speaker 1: You know, three social media to do things like you
27:11
Speaker 1: got to change a bunch of times. So Dot life,
27:13
Speaker 1: I'm on tweeting and I'm I'm going I'm going to Instagram.
27:17
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do more on Instagram. I love TikTok. I
27:20
Speaker 1: just love what the young people are doing, and I'm
27:22
Speaker 1: trying to stay young with Listen to this full interview
27:24
Speaker 1: with George Wallace. It's available on Moneymaking Conversations dot com. Now,
27:28
Speaker 1: let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald.
27:34
Speaker 1: My guess is Lenora Anderson. She is the co founder
27:37
Speaker 1: and president of Alliance for Safety and Justice, a s
27:40
Speaker 1: J on the nation's largest safety and justice reform advocacy organizations.
27:45
Speaker 1: As J wakes with public officials and grassroots partners to
27:48
Speaker 1: advance smart public policy and sponsors Crime Survivors for Safety
27:52
Speaker 1: and Justice, the nation's largest organizing program for victims of
27:57
Speaker 1: crime She's also the founder of California for Safety Injustice.
28:01
Speaker 1: This was a flagship whereas an attorney with extensive experience
28:05
Speaker 1: working to reform criminal justice and public suffetice systems. She's
28:08
Speaker 1: on the show today this discuss a new book. If
28:11
Speaker 1: you're watching me, I'll be holding in my hand in
28:14
Speaker 1: Their Names, The Untold story of victim rights, mass incarceration,
28:18
Speaker 1: and the Future of public safety. Please walk into Money
28:22
Speaker 1: Making Conversation Masterclass, Lenora Anderson. How are you doing, Lenora great?
28:27
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Well, first of all, you know,
28:30
Speaker 1: it's a it's a two way street. You know, I
28:32
Speaker 1: have to ask and then and then the invitation has
28:34
Speaker 1: to be accepted, and and then I have to get
28:36
Speaker 1: the book, I do my homework, and then so I
28:39
Speaker 1: won't be acting the generic questions that don't lead to anything,
28:43
Speaker 1: and then you leave you and then you walk away.
28:45
Speaker 1: And did he even read my book? Yes? I did,
28:47
Speaker 1: because I think that when I when I bring a
28:49
Speaker 1: guest on like you who has something to say, and
28:53
Speaker 1: not saying that my guests don't have anything to say,
28:55
Speaker 1: but you could read a book like Let's put it
28:58
Speaker 1: this way, if you watch Game of Thrones, you pretty
29:00
Speaker 1: much you know it's gonna be some dragons. Okay, when
29:03
Speaker 1: you read a book like this, I walked away realizing
29:07
Speaker 1: I didn't understand the way society works. I was thoroughly educated.
29:13
Speaker 1: In some ways, I was saddened by my own personal
29:16
Speaker 1: ignorance because there are victims of crime who are walking
29:20
Speaker 1: around to day and don't understand that they can go
29:23
Speaker 1: get help. That is why when I got the book,
29:27
Speaker 1: I was even more enthused about interviewing. You tell us
29:31
Speaker 1: your perspective, but it's so great to hear your reflections
29:36
Speaker 1: on it. So like you described, I'm an attorney in
29:40
Speaker 1: a policy reform advocate, and I wanted to write this
29:43
Speaker 1: book because I have seen the way these myths about
29:48
Speaker 1: public safety in the United States really prevent victims from
29:53
Speaker 1: getting help and really prevent real criminal justice reform from
29:57
Speaker 1: coming about. You know, we work with survivor hours of
30:00
Speaker 1: crime all across the country, and we bring groups of
30:04
Speaker 1: survivors to meet with state legislators in capitals all across
30:08
Speaker 1: the country, states as diverse as you know, California, Texas,
30:12
Speaker 1: and when we sit down with legislators, they're always so
30:15
Speaker 1: shocked to hear that most victims of crime don't actually
30:19
Speaker 1: want all this mass incarceration. They really want rehabilitation, crime prevention,
30:25
Speaker 1: and real help after experiencing harms. So I wanted to
30:29
Speaker 1: tell that story and try and help shake up this
30:32
Speaker 1: conversation on criminal justice in the country. Well, okay, it's
30:36
Speaker 1: really interesting because when you're talking about criminal justice, you
30:39
Speaker 1: usually talk about a person of color, usually a person
30:41
Speaker 1: that looks like me. We are the number, you know,
30:44
Speaker 1: we feel these jail sales, these prisons at a rapid rate.
30:47
Speaker 1: I think your number with one out of three. When
30:49
Speaker 1: it became the Latina, I think the number was one
30:51
Speaker 1: out of six. And so why should you care about me? Well,
31:01
Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I started down this path kind
31:07
Speaker 1: of uncovering the realities of racial inequality in Americans, America's
31:13
Speaker 1: public safety system. You know, when I was a teenager,
31:16
Speaker 1: it was the eighties and nineties in California, I was
31:19
Speaker 1: getting in trouble, and um, you know what, the response
31:23
Speaker 1: to me was very different than what was happening at
31:27
Speaker 1: that time. You know, in the eighties and nineties, there
31:30
Speaker 1: was a you know, sort of tough on crime movement.
31:32
Speaker 1: There was this war on youth, especially in California. But
31:36
Speaker 1: here I am as a white female getting in trouble. Police,
31:40
Speaker 1: let me go home, teachers, let me pass classes. That down,
31:45
Speaker 1: miss and miss and you getting in trouble. You getting
31:48
Speaker 1: in trouble, the young lady, I'm looking at you look
31:52
Speaker 1: like um you guys, it's close to a pta looking
31:55
Speaker 1: person i've seen. Okay, and you used the word trouble
31:58
Speaker 1: tied to your name. I don't believe it. I don't
32:01
Speaker 1: believe what kind of trouble were you getting in. Let's
32:03
Speaker 1: stop the praising, to pump the brakes here, Leno Anderson
32:07
Speaker 1: got in trouble. I want to hear what trouble you
32:09
Speaker 1: got in that? The police said, gone, girl, don't worry
32:11
Speaker 1: about it. You know what probably typical, right, real typical teenager. Right,
32:21
Speaker 1: you know we're talking cut in school, we're talking shoplifting,
32:25
Speaker 1: you know, getting in trouble, underage drinking, and you know
32:29
Speaker 1: they're one of that kind of thing. And those are
32:33
Speaker 1: those are the realities, right, the realities are those exact
32:36
Speaker 1: things that I was doing on my sort of stumbling
32:40
Speaker 1: towards adulthood. Right, we're landing the color in jails across
32:45
Speaker 1: this country at astronomical rates. And it wasn't until you know,
32:50
Speaker 1: I was, you know, given so much grace and so
32:55
Speaker 1: many chances to try again. And it wasn't until after
32:59
Speaker 1: I graduate in law school a decade later, right, and
33:02
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in courtrooms, sitting with parents and incarcerated youth,
33:06
Speaker 1: talking to kids who are facing solitary confinement, getting pepper
33:11
Speaker 1: sprayed by guards, you know, And I was listening to
33:14
Speaker 1: the stories of these young people and realizing, really the
33:18
Speaker 1: main difference between what they started out doing and what
33:22
Speaker 1: I was doing was how the system responded right around
33:26
Speaker 1: race and class. This is a system that has it's
33:29
Speaker 1: not just who gets incarcerated that's racially biased, it's also
33:34
Speaker 1: which victims get help that's racially biased. There's racial bias
33:38
Speaker 1: at top to bottom of this whole system. When I
33:41
Speaker 1: came to realize that, I knew that I had to
33:44
Speaker 1: do something to advance racial equality right right now. And
33:48
Speaker 1: thank you for because a lot of people see things
33:51
Speaker 1: and get frustrated by the process and say, hey, they
33:53
Speaker 1: ain't my lane. That's not the experience I want. I
33:56
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with those issues now. It all
33:59
Speaker 1: goes back to your back what what what what? Along
34:01
Speaker 1: the way, you know, Like I said, I always tell
34:04
Speaker 1: people Uh, some of the things I get in college,
34:06
Speaker 1: I probably could have been in jail, you know, because
34:08
Speaker 1: if we all do stupid things, we all do things
34:10
Speaker 1: that that you go back and go, you know something
34:13
Speaker 1: all somebody to dude just stopped me. I always tell
34:16
Speaker 1: the story. I remember I was in college. I was
34:18
Speaker 1: pledged in fraternity. And when you pledged in fraternity, the
34:21
Speaker 1: big brothers, they always want you to get stuff for them.
34:24
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't give you money. You just had
34:26
Speaker 1: to come back with what they asked. And I had
34:28
Speaker 1: a little little sports car in college, and it was
34:30
Speaker 1: the feed I X one nine, and so the trunk
34:33
Speaker 1: was in the front of the car. And I remember
34:36
Speaker 1: this big brother told me, he said, look, I want
34:38
Speaker 1: some plants from my apart. I couldn't tell him I
34:41
Speaker 1: didn't have any money. And I could always remember I
34:43
Speaker 1: went and found this place and and got these plants.
34:46
Speaker 1: And and so if the plants were so big that
34:49
Speaker 1: they were sticking out of my trunk and basically blocking
34:52
Speaker 1: my windshield, I couldn't even see really, so a cop
34:54
Speaker 1: could have easily have stopped me, and and I wouldn't
34:58
Speaker 1: be had no receipt those plants, and I could have
35:01
Speaker 1: been arrested. It could have changed the direction of my
35:04
Speaker 1: life because that was some silly thing that I did
35:07
Speaker 1: because I was trying to accommodate the needs or the
35:10
Speaker 1: incredible demands of a big brother to join this organization
35:15
Speaker 1: so that so I can relate to what you're saying.
35:17
Speaker 1: But then there are some people like me. I had
35:21
Speaker 1: role models, I had people who believed in me. I
35:24
Speaker 1: had a circle of people. But then there are people
35:27
Speaker 1: out there who don't have anybody. And that's really what
35:30
Speaker 1: we're talking about in this book. The people who are
35:33
Speaker 1: perceived failures, people who have perceived targets, and guess what
35:39
Speaker 1: they become that target. People take aim on them. That's
35:42
Speaker 1: what came out of the book a lot, and not
35:44
Speaker 1: saying that's negative, but it needs to be told. And
35:49
Speaker 1: you know these are policy choices, right, I mean, you know,
35:52
Speaker 1: the reason that there's not enough youth mentors, the reason
35:56
Speaker 1: that there's not enough mental health crisis assistance responders or
36:01
Speaker 1: trauma recovery centers for victims. The reason these kinds of
36:06
Speaker 1: solutions that would help people not be alone is because
36:10
Speaker 1: we put all the money in these bloated prisons right
36:14
Speaker 1: for too long. You know, in this country. The policy
36:17
Speaker 1: choice was, Hey, we've got a problem with crime. That's
36:21
Speaker 1: a very serious problem. We've got to deal with it.
36:23
Speaker 1: We're going to solve that problem by building up this huge,
36:27
Speaker 1: enormous set of criminal justice bureaucracies, and we're going to
36:30
Speaker 1: put all the money in these prisons, mass surveillance, mass incarceration. Well,
36:35
Speaker 1: there's a real world impact of that choice, and the
36:39
Speaker 1: impact is none of the kind of supports that you're describing. Right.
36:43
Speaker 1: We're talking about solutions on the ground in communities that
36:47
Speaker 1: are operating on a dime, that have long waiting lists,
36:50
Speaker 1: and that's because the safety money that our country has
36:54
Speaker 1: doled out has gone too much to the wrong place. Absolutely,
36:58
Speaker 1: And when you talk about the wrong places called tax
37:01
Speaker 1: dollars or tax dollars, and then people using those tax
37:04
Speaker 1: dollars create big business and prison is big business. And uh,
37:08
Speaker 1: and that's that's a lot of the things that people
37:10
Speaker 1: are unaware of, you know, as as a person who
37:13
Speaker 1: looks at you and talk about different career paths and
37:15
Speaker 1: my career, you know, I wanted to be a doctor,
37:18
Speaker 1: but then I couldn't get past physics, so you know,
37:20
Speaker 1: so I eventually got my degree in mathematics, and and
37:24
Speaker 1: but I took a course in college sociology that changed
37:28
Speaker 1: my life, just really changed my perspective and really educated
37:32
Speaker 1: me on just life in general. You know. It were
37:34
Speaker 1: two courses that really I took them by accident. One
37:38
Speaker 1: to one course would say it was easy. That's why
37:40
Speaker 1: I took to sociology. And other course I was supposed
37:43
Speaker 1: to take Texas history, and I wound up taking Western
37:45
Speaker 1: European history, and I realized and I earned about the
37:48
Speaker 1: Roman Cotholicism and Lutheranism and Calvinism, and I went, wow,
37:52
Speaker 1: Europe was pretty violent. That's pretty violent country. And then
37:57
Speaker 1: but there was a career path that got me here.
37:59
Speaker 1: Please explain your career path, because it had to be
38:01
Speaker 1: certain things alone, the way it adjusted your personality to
38:05
Speaker 1: allow you to be the person who's in pursuit of
38:07
Speaker 1: justice reform. Yeah, well, you know, I really lucked out.
38:14
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of fell into social justice advocacy.
38:19
Speaker 1: You know, after I've kind of barely graduated from high school.
38:22
Speaker 1: I actually didn't go to college. But then I had
38:26
Speaker 1: a health problem and needed health insurance. My dad, who
38:30
Speaker 1: had wanted me to go to college, says, you'll be
38:33
Speaker 1: covered you're over eighteen, but you'll still be covered if
38:36
Speaker 1: you're a college student. So I went to the local
38:38
Speaker 1: junior college in San Jose, California, and didn't expect to
38:44
Speaker 1: really find college as fascinating and interesting as I did,
38:49
Speaker 1: you know, And I started taking these classes, you know,
38:51
Speaker 1: everything from psychology, like you sociology, and it helped me
38:56
Speaker 1: see the world in a different light. And then I was,
38:59
Speaker 1: you know, able to do well in junior college and
39:02
Speaker 1: then go on to Berkeley and then law school. But
39:05
Speaker 1: it was really sort of happenstance that I found myself
39:10
Speaker 1: in new environments and I'm so grateful for that. You know,
39:16
Speaker 1: you're really interesting in a good way. I say that,
39:18
Speaker 1: you know. She she just casually says, you know, she
39:20
Speaker 1: didn't really want to go to college. Needs she went
39:22
Speaker 1: to b She went to junior college because of medical
39:25
Speaker 1: reason to get insharance. Then she was in Berkeley and
39:27
Speaker 1: then she was in law school. Like you know that
39:29
Speaker 1: that leap, Like she just she's just like, you know,
39:33
Speaker 1: you know, I just love talking to people like you
39:37
Speaker 1: because you're so humble and you're so nonch a lot
39:41
Speaker 1: about the work ethic that you put in and then
39:44
Speaker 1: the gifts that you have, and then now you take
39:47
Speaker 1: those gifts and you're sharing it by trying to change
39:50
Speaker 1: people's lives, and you're doing it every day. When you
39:53
Speaker 1: wrote this book, what angered you the most about the
39:57
Speaker 1: research because you knew some of it, But when you
39:59
Speaker 1: do more research, if you find things, you go, this
40:01
Speaker 1: is disgusting. Yeah, you know. We have been my organization,
40:09
Speaker 1: Liliance for Safety and Justice. We've been organizing to perform
40:12
Speaker 1: criminal justice in public safety for a decade, and I
40:15
Speaker 1: wanted to take a step back and write this book
40:18
Speaker 1: because I knew there was a story to be told
40:20
Speaker 1: about how victims have actually been hurt by the very
40:24
Speaker 1: things that American politics say victims want all this mass incarceration,
40:29
Speaker 1: tough justice. But then when I started researching the history,
40:34
Speaker 1: You're right, there are so many things that I found
40:37
Speaker 1: shocking and devastating. Victims of crime in New Orleans, Louisiana
40:42
Speaker 1: getting arrested, the victims of domestic violence, human trafficking getting
40:46
Speaker 1: arrested to compel their testimony in court when the perpetrators
40:52
Speaker 1: are getting released on bail. That's an example. And by
40:55
Speaker 1: the way, all the victims who are arrested in that
40:57
Speaker 1: kind of situation, all low income women of color. That's
41:02
Speaker 1: what's happening, is that's kind of treatment. You know. Another example, Cleveland, Ohio.
41:08
Speaker 1: You know, this is one of the many cities across
41:10
Speaker 1: the country in the eighties and nineties that got all
41:12
Speaker 1: this federal money to build up the police departments and
41:16
Speaker 1: mostly focus on drugs and theft and sort of petty stuff.
41:21
Speaker 1: They're arresting people left and right. Meanwhile, that same city
41:25
Speaker 1: is sitting on rate kits that have never been tested. Right.
41:29
Speaker 1: So when I started really unpacking this reality, it's it
41:35
Speaker 1: just sort of it became obvious to me that disregard
41:40
Speaker 1: for victims, especially low income victims and victims of color, right,
41:44
Speaker 1: is the two sides of the same point. That's the
41:47
Speaker 1: same thing as mass incarceration. It's one systematic approach, if
41:51
Speaker 1: that makes sense. No, No, it's life is is field.
41:55
Speaker 1: We're irony, you know because doing the three strikes, because
41:58
Speaker 1: you talk about in a book three strikes and you're out.
42:01
Speaker 1: Basically that occurred under the Clinton administration, and then you
42:06
Speaker 1: have who all schools involved that time was now President
42:10
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Okay, And within the community, you know, it's
42:15
Speaker 1: always been a feeling that you know, Bill Clinton is
42:18
Speaker 1: the black person's president, but he's responsible for for me,
42:22
Speaker 1: the black people being in jail because of that law,
42:27
Speaker 1: which sounds very simple, sound very you know, it will
42:31
Speaker 1: fix a system, but it again hurt the very people
42:34
Speaker 1: that will always be victimized, low income and people of color.
42:39
Speaker 1: And then you have Joe Biden today, who needed the
42:42
Speaker 1: black vote from the very people that he backed a
42:46
Speaker 1: bill on. That type of irony places itself over and
42:50
Speaker 1: over again, and it keeps coming back on the communities
42:54
Speaker 1: that need the most resources, that need the most support.
42:57
Speaker 1: And when you read a book like yours, you know,
43:00
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm not saying I'm drawn to tears,
43:03
Speaker 1: but I'm also very mad and mad because the people's
43:08
Speaker 1: lives who have been destroyed can be recovered, the people
43:12
Speaker 1: who are victims of crime. And I think that that's
43:14
Speaker 1: what we're about to go to now, because we're not
43:17
Speaker 1: talking about incarceration now, we need to also talk about
43:20
Speaker 1: the people who are actually victims because we're not spending
43:22
Speaker 1: the money in the right direction. Ama, correct, that's right.
43:27
Speaker 1: How do we fix that? Miss Andrewson? Well, you know,
43:32
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people are not aware of
43:35
Speaker 1: how few victims of crime get help after getting hurt
43:39
Speaker 1: by violence, you know, and I talk about it in
43:41
Speaker 1: the book. You know, we passed in this country, we
43:44
Speaker 1: passed laws in every state for victim compensation programs and
43:49
Speaker 1: relocation assistance programs, and yet nine out of ten victims
43:54
Speaker 1: getting no help. They don't get at nine out of
43:56
Speaker 1: ten victims of violent crime in the US getting compensation,
44:01
Speaker 1: no relocation assistance, no accommodations at work or school. They
44:07
Speaker 1: faced extreme stress, you know, in response to what has happened.
44:13
Speaker 1: And despite the laws on the books, it's not translating
44:17
Speaker 1: to real help to victims. And that needs to be uncovered.
44:21
Speaker 1: That story of how few victims get help needs to
44:24
Speaker 1: be told because right in there is also a set
44:28
Speaker 1: of solutions around public safety. If we could help survivors
44:32
Speaker 1: heal from trauma and get stabilized, we would actually be
44:38
Speaker 1: stopping the cycle of crime at the same time. So
44:40
Speaker 1: as part of why we're so focused on helping alleviate
44:44
Speaker 1: the trauma that victims experience is because we're trying to
44:48
Speaker 1: heal communities. Right I'm speaking to Leanor Anderson our book
44:52
Speaker 1: In Their Names, The Untold Story of Victims, Rights, Mass
44:54
Speaker 1: and Conceration, and the future of public safety. You can
44:57
Speaker 1: buy this book today and underlyine chapter of against a
45:01
Speaker 1: paragraph he said. This book, which you wrote, argues that
45:04
Speaker 1: unearthing and resetting the relationship between victims of crime and
45:09
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system is required to replace masscarceration. Now,
45:14
Speaker 1: you know, the average person go, what's she talking about?
45:19
Speaker 1: Put these folks to jail and going about your business.
45:22
Speaker 1: So I'm sure you get that a lot. You know,
45:24
Speaker 1: I'm sure people look at you like, you know, she know,
45:26
Speaker 1: she's one of them, you know, do gooders. You know,
45:28
Speaker 1: she a dreamer, pipe dream people. You know, how do
45:33
Speaker 1: you overcome that? How do you come to skepticism? How
45:35
Speaker 1: do you come back? Because do you get four doors
45:37
Speaker 1: slamming your face? Probably than me, okay, because you try
45:40
Speaker 1: to do right and a lot of people don't care
45:41
Speaker 1: about doing right. They just want to vote, or they
45:43
Speaker 1: try to raise some taxes, they try to get home,
45:45
Speaker 1: and you're just trying to get the job done right.
45:47
Speaker 1: So you super dreamer, how do you overcome it? And
45:52
Speaker 1: how have you been able to win? Because you are
45:54
Speaker 1: winning too. Yeah, We've had a lot of success talking
46:01
Speaker 1: to people about the truth about what happens. You know,
46:04
Speaker 1: when you ask most voters. You know, first of all,
46:07
Speaker 1: we all want public safety. That is something that's a
46:10
Speaker 1: value we all hold dear. The question is how to
46:13
Speaker 1: get there. And when you ask voters, which do you
46:16
Speaker 1: think is more effective for public safety, right, incarcerating our
46:20
Speaker 1: way to safety, arresting our way to safety, or building
46:24
Speaker 1: strong communities, voters across the political spectrum are going to
46:27
Speaker 1: say building strong communities. Well, if that's what we all
46:31
Speaker 1: know intuitively, right, that you actually have to invest in
46:35
Speaker 1: crime prevention and rehabilitation and crisis assistance, then why are
46:40
Speaker 1: we not doing that? And we're not doing it because
46:43
Speaker 1: there's this myth, and it's the myth that you just
46:46
Speaker 1: laid out that like, hey, let's just throw all these
46:48
Speaker 1: people in jail and then we'll be safe. Right, Well,
46:50
Speaker 1: that myth has failed up for forty years. That has
46:55
Speaker 1: been symbolism instead of real safety. Right. That's the sort
46:59
Speaker 1: of you know, want to feel good and look tough
47:02
Speaker 1: kind of politic that might get someone reelected, but it
47:06
Speaker 1: has never actually delivered real safety. You know, our country
47:10
Speaker 1: incurs rates more per capita than just about any other
47:13
Speaker 1: country in the nation. If that was the way to safety,
47:15
Speaker 1: we'd be the safest country on the planet. We put
47:19
Speaker 1: you in jail and we'll shoot you. We'll put you
47:21
Speaker 1: in jail and we'll shoot you. Okay, right to bear arms.
47:25
Speaker 1: And so that's where you trapped that well, and we
47:30
Speaker 1: got to ask ourselves what have we gotten for that? Right?
47:33
Speaker 1: What have we gotten in reality? You know, when you
47:37
Speaker 1: look at what our public money goes to, right, and
47:41
Speaker 1: when we say public money, that's our money, right, your money,
47:44
Speaker 1: my money. This is our money here in public systems.
47:47
Speaker 1: This is money that is chronically allowing crisis to become
47:52
Speaker 1: crime and then trying to arrest our way out of it.
47:55
Speaker 1: Why don't we start on the front end and really
47:58
Speaker 1: try and actually help people who are in crisis. We
48:02
Speaker 1: so we can prevent most of the crime and violence
48:05
Speaker 1: that's happening. It's not that mysterious why crime and violence happens.
48:09
Speaker 1: We just don't do a lot about it. And then
48:12
Speaker 1: we spend all the money on these broken, beloated systems,
48:16
Speaker 1: cool in their names. The untone story of victims rights,
48:19
Speaker 1: mass incarceration in the future of public safety safety, I'm
48:22
Speaker 1: speaking to Lenoor Anderson. What are your future goals? Lenor?
48:25
Speaker 1: You know, you know it's it's it's tied to passion,
48:28
Speaker 1: it's tied to changing people's lives, it's tied to changing
48:31
Speaker 1: people's point of view. Yeah, and you know, in twenty twenty,
48:39
Speaker 1: I want you just to get this out, you know,
48:40
Speaker 1: when George Floyd, because I want to make sure I
48:42
Speaker 1: get this out, because I think it had to have
48:44
Speaker 1: an impact on the whole justice system. You know, this
48:48
Speaker 1: whole country was March heavy, you know, defunded police, all
48:53
Speaker 1: these things were put out there, and then the Republican
48:57
Speaker 1: Party used that to say, that's why the country is
49:00
Speaker 1: a high crime rate is going up, that's why police
49:03
Speaker 1: officers are quitting on the job. I know I'm asking
49:06
Speaker 1: two questions, but first answer your question about the future
49:09
Speaker 1: goal and then we get back to this decond questions. Okay, Well,
49:14
Speaker 1: and they're and they're kind of related. You know, we
49:16
Speaker 1: live in a really exciting time. I mean, you know,
49:19
Speaker 1: most people, if you turned on the TV during the
49:21
Speaker 1: last election cycle, there was a real, you know, resurgence
49:25
Speaker 1: of this sort of tough on crime, law and order rhetoric.
49:28
Speaker 1: But it really didn't have an impact. You know, it
49:30
Speaker 1: didn't actually change a lot of voters opinions. I think
49:34
Speaker 1: voters are wiser today than they used to be on
49:38
Speaker 1: this issue of criminal justice, and that means there's exciting
49:42
Speaker 1: change happening. So what we're interested in is, you know,
49:45
Speaker 1: what are the real solutions, right If we if we
49:48
Speaker 1: can finally abandon this myth of mass incarceration as a
49:52
Speaker 1: pathway to safety, if we can start to accept that
49:55
Speaker 1: criminal justice reform and public safety actually go hand in hand,
49:59
Speaker 1: we and build some really great solutions. You know, there's
50:03
Speaker 1: these things called street outreach violence prevention workers right These
50:08
Speaker 1: are grassroots community members trained in conflict mediation that can
50:12
Speaker 1: help young people reduce gun violence on the streets. It's
50:17
Speaker 1: having a huge positive impact. There's trauma recovery centers which
50:21
Speaker 1: are helping underserved victims of crime get crisis assistance and
50:26
Speaker 1: get mental health support. These are the kinds of solutions
50:30
Speaker 1: that we're building across the country. And what's so exciting
50:33
Speaker 1: about the future is that more and more people are
50:37
Speaker 1: seeing the wisdom behind these solutions. That's really what excites
50:41
Speaker 1: me the most. That's what we're trying to build toward,
50:43
Speaker 1: and I think that I think we're at a point
50:46
Speaker 1: where we can start to have a much more honest
50:50
Speaker 1: conversation about partnering with community instead of surveilling community, partnering
50:57
Speaker 1: with community to build the kind of solution so we've
51:00
Speaker 1: been needing the whole time. Yeah, it's definitely a book
51:03
Speaker 1: that changed my life. And I say that I would
51:06
Speaker 1: say that casually because I think that when people say
51:08
Speaker 1: that in me, no, I'm not you know, I am
51:10
Speaker 1: who I am, I am my age, But your point
51:12
Speaker 1: of view can be changed through information. This book will
51:15
Speaker 1: be passed around to some other people who are a
51:18
Speaker 1: little bit bigger than me, and I will encourage them
51:20
Speaker 1: to interview you and encourage them to get the word
51:24
Speaker 1: out about your book. It's that big to me. Okay,
51:28
Speaker 1: it's such a great auntner and I appreciate it so much,
51:31
Speaker 1: and you know, we're just we're so blessed to have
51:36
Speaker 1: people like you in the role that you're playing and
51:38
Speaker 1: encouraging with the hope and the positivity. You know, it
51:41
Speaker 1: brings me great joy to being a conversation with someone
51:44
Speaker 1: who's such an inspiration to millions. So thank you so much.
51:47
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, and we talked soon, and I'm again
51:50
Speaker 1: I'm very sincere. In their names Down told a story
51:53
Speaker 1: of victim rights from asking Conceration and the Future of
51:56
Speaker 1: Public Safety. Very brilliant book. You should buy it for
51:59
Speaker 1: more police. Spread the word. Thank for coming on money
52:02
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52:09
Speaker 1: listening to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rushan McDonald. Always
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