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Second Thoughts | ALBAS UP! - A New Posture for Advocacy · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

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Having relational integrity, and that takes work. That is the work,
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is building relationships. It's not the outcome necessarily.
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The relationship is the work. It's like going on a train trip.
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A train trip isn't about the destination. The train trip is
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the trip. It it is doing it together. It's seeing the sights. It's
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experiencing life together. That is the invitation.
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This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious
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Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life
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stories and honest conversations.
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Hey, Wendy. We are back back with another second thoughts episode.
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How are you doing this week? Doing well. It's chilly out here in the
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camper, but, I do see more sunshine these days, so that is good.
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So we're taking a step back to discuss our conversation,
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reflect on it, and share our thoughts about our discussion that we had with
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Marie Christian this last week. The episode, I think we labeled it
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the privilege of quiet advocacy that lets others be heard.
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What has been sitting with you, Wendy, since that since that conversation?
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Well, there that was a really deep good conversation. I really
1:15
appreciate. I could really identify with asking myself the
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question, what is my role alongside others? And she made
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it sound so simple. Just simply ask, what is it
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that you need? And and simplifying it, taking the guesswork out
1:29
of compassion is letting the other person voice
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what it is that they need. I really like that. And we did have Marie
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on for season two. It's been a couple years to
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the date almost, actually, where we had her on. We sat in her
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office, and she shared a lot of similar things, but really expanded
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on it on this one, I find. And it it almost feels more timely now
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that we're having this conversation now. Now we're in this series, the cost of
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indifference. Like, why are we having this conversation in this
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series? Yeah. That's a really good question. When we're looking
2:03
at indifference, you you wouldn't necessarily pair that with advocacy
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because advocacy can be really good. It is really good. It
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is needed. But the cost of advocacy when
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we don't understand how to do it in a
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healthy relational way can sometimes be taking the
2:22
voice from people. It's actually not listening to the people. It's
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trying to fix peep and and voice things that without listening.
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And so the role of advocacy as we learned
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last week with Marie Christian is we need
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to be able to sit, connect, and ask,
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what is it that you need? Where would you like to go with this? And
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it's nuance. Right, Johan? I loved how Marie said,
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well, if they really wanna paint all the lawns
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in our neighborhood purple, do we just go out and buy a can of paint?
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What was your thoughts on that? I was wondering if she's held on to that
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analogy because it seemed pretty brilliant at the time. Like, where did that
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come from? Because sometimes we we try to be over
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helping or overcompensating and say, yeah, like, let's do that. Let's run with
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it. Instead of asking the question about, well, why do you wanna do that?
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Like, what's what's behind that? What what's your thought process behind that?
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And I really like the way that she used that analogies. Yeah.
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Because advocacy isn't just like, oh, if if a person
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who is in need is voicing what they want is purple paint
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on all the lawns in the neighborhood, it doesn't mean we jump when they say
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jump, but it's actually an invitation, a bid to get
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closer. It's a bid to ask, so tell me more. Tell me
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more. What is behind all of those things? And maybe there's something
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that we can connect. I can't be all things to all people.
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And for some of us, that can be a hard thing to swallow. I want
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to do so much. I want to care for others,
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and so let me bend over backwards. But
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being honest with selves, and I I loved where she went with this finding your
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authenticity. Who are you, and what has god created you to
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be, and what role do you have in this? And it it requires some
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discernment and saying, okay. In that purple paint analogy
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and in that sense of beautification, maybe I have a
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green thumb in there somewhere. And maybe you and
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I can connect over a greenhouse and over
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purple flowers. I don't know. But that's where there is no
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formula. It's a matter of having that relational
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integrity to get closer, to leaning closer, not just
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say, I don't do purple paint. That's a stupid idea. It's an
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invitation to get closer in a relational kind of
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way. And Marie talked about advocacy being sometimes standing in
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front, beside, or behind. And I don't know,
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just thinking about this whole purple paint analogy, it makes me think about,
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parenting adults sometimes. You wanna stand in front, beside, and
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behind, like I was just thinking the other day, our son was telling us about
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this one time that he came home from work, and he wants to
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take a trip to BC to see his cousins. And, like, he bought the plane
5:09
ticket and all this stuff afterwards. But he was excited about this
5:13
idea. He comes in, and he's all excited about it. And
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and we kinda shut him down by asking those parenting questions. Well, how are you
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gonna afford it? You've never flown before. Like, where are you gonna be
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staying? And it just shut down that excitement. And afterwards, he came
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and talked to us and he said, I just wanted to I was excited about
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this thing and I just wanted to share it with you guys and you just
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shut it down. So Oh, damn. Sometimes advocacy
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is like, you try to do the parenting thing. Yeah. But advocacy
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is sometimes just sharing excitement and then processing it with them
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and asking those questions again. So what are you gonna do here?
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Not necessarily imposing your wisdom, your worldview
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on on them, But, yeah, going deeper. Right? And
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allowing them to make the mistakes and allowing them to learn and allowing them to
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grow because when you just parent, sometimes it squashes their
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growth even. Oh, I'm so with you, Johan. I can so
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relate. I'm I'm in the trenches right now raising teenagers and
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having young adults and letting them make
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choices, letting them discover things for
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themselves. And let's face it. I don't know all the answers. I
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but we do come with some lived experience, but limited I have
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limited experience from my worldview. And so I need to confront my
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biases. And when there is danger or when there is things that
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I'm like, I so want to prevent my older
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daughters, from harm. I have to say, I I
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do believe, integrally, it comes from a good place of wanting to
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protect that mama bear. It doesn't go away when they turn
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they have their eighteenth birthday cake. You wanna protect them,
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but part of learning
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to let go and be a champion
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of our kids is saying, okay. When is
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it that I can't protect them? I need to walk
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alongside. Ask those questions and let them make choices,
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good or harmful or things like that, and
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say, you know what? Maybe even when
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maybe my role is to stand behind and pray. Maybe
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it is to stand beside and ask questions that
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don't shut down conversations because I know I I'm there too, Johan. It's
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so easy for me to even in my questioning, I can stand in front
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in shooting things down and and poking holes through their their,
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brain development. But let let's put it into a context
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of churches having compassion within their community.
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Is it any different, do you think, with those that
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are struggling with homelessness or addictions
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or have different lifestyles than perhaps
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is on their own doctrinal statements, even other denominations
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down the street. How do we do relationships
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there? I think even bringing it back to
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what what we were just talking about. I think churches often do the same thing
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where the leaders at the top, they'll squash those
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ideas of those excited people in the congregation that wanna do this new
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initiative or they wanna get something going in the church even
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if it has to do with poverty. They ask questions, well, how much is it
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gonna cost? And where are you gonna do this? Who are you gonna bring on
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board? You haven't done this thing before or I've seen it done before and it
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didn't work. So sometimes the church
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takes that role where they're squashing ideas and
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not being advocates of their community doing things. And I'm not saying that's for
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all churches, and I'm not saying that's for every idea either. But
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we've we've seen examples of this time and time again. So
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how do we as leaders grapple with that tension
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of lifting up our people when they're excited about something and then maybe coming back
9:00
to later and asking the questions or standing behind them or
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knowing when to step back and letting them take the lead. Well, and I think
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there's no simple answer to that. I think there's no simple
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one, two, three step. The key to all of this
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is that relational piece of going deeper,
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leaning into each other, learning to
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find some common denominators. And even in our
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differences and even in our best
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intentions, it's a matter of having relational
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integrity, and that takes work. That is the work is building
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relationships. It's not the outcome necessarily. The
9:41
relationship is the work. It's like going on a train trip. A
9:45
train trip isn't about the destination. The train trip is the
9:48
trip. It it is doing it together. It's seeing the sights. It's experiencing
9:52
life together. That is the invitation. And then we also have to look
9:56
at within the church, we always have. We are at times
10:00
that happy Helen or the the philanthropic Phil that wants
10:04
to intervene on. I see that person in Tent City, and I'm
10:07
gonna rescue them. I'm gonna build them the the house. I'm gonna feed
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them till they're fat. I I'm gonna do these things because not on
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my watch are they gonna go in the direction that they're going.
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But we might have good intentions. But have
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we stopped to have a thousand cups of coffee with them?
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Have we stopped to ask, Joe, what would you like and how
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are you doing? And and tell me about your day. Tell me about the good
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things that you're excited to wake up to. Are we gonna do the
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deep work of relational intervention?
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If there's anything our country needs, it's relational
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trust based relational intervention. We use that as a a care lingo
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not too long ago. Listen up if you don't know what TBRI is,
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but we need trust building
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relational intervention. Hey. Maybe that's a new one TBRI.
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We need to be building that. That is the work of advocacy.
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And we actually talked about churches asking their community what they need instead
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of assuming. So, again, that comes with relationships sitting at the
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table with a cup of coffee. And when you ask those questions, it
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often gets messy. And we talk about being okay with getting messy
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sometimes and getting real about the messiness. And you know that
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good intentions often collide with that real world messiness. And
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this is gonna be a future episode where we're talking about moving from programs to
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authentic relationships. What are some of those messiest but most beautiful
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partnerships that you've seen between churches and communities, Wendy?
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Well, call me weird, but I love the messy. I've learned
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to embrace it. I'm learning even in my own discomfort that that
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is the work, and I can't be more excited
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about why we're doing care portal. Now care portal
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is a care sharing technology that connects communities together
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to support individuals in the community, but it could be seen
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as just a a Kijiji, a a marketplace. Oh, they need a
12:03
bed, so we're gonna, like, drop off deliver a bed. That's what we're
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trying to not do. Okay. What I'm excited about care
12:11
portal is that we're we're training those that are
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already on the front lines, the agencies, the nonprofits,
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those that are doing some really good things, interventions,
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working with people in crisis. We're training them to
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ask the question, what is it that you need? How can we move things
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along, not just for you, but with you? And there's some discernment,
12:34
some vetting that goes along. Right? Like, we're not delivering
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purple paint to every household. But what are the things that will move you forward?
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What is it that you would like in order to get your children home, and
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how can we work this through? Or what is it that you need as your
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agent got a foster care that would give you a sense of security,
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that would help you get that job, that would make you feel
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confident for that first interview? We're inviting
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social workers and and frontline workers to ask those questions
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to walk along beside. Not this isn't a frontline
13:07
intervention. This is a beside intervention. And they're able
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to put those needs onto the portal. And churches that we're
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training also in advocacy, what does it look like to come along
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behind and beside in responding to their
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needs and being that a relational connection
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point? It's more about the relationship than what that
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bed means. Yes. That bed is important or that need
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is being met in a timely way, but let's connect
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neighbor to neighbor. Yeah. And you you talk about
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social workers. Historically, social services and the church
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have not worked well together. They don't get along. There's a mistrust
13:47
there. Yeah. And yet social workers have their pulse on what the
13:51
community actually needs. So if we're gonna ask the
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community, hey, what do you need? They're a good place to start.
13:59
Yeah. And we need to build trust and
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relationships with social workers as well. They
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are humans. They've gone in there into this career
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with the intentions and the the desire
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to care for the most vulnerable. And I
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can tell you from talking with social workers as I've gotten to know
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them, they've opened up with me over so many
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cups of coffee. I think we must be past a thousand by now, with
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some people. The things that they are exposed to on a
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daily, and they cannot they cannot explain to
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others. They cannot respond to media. I'm
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not saying social service systemically is perfect,
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but there are people coming to the front lines. They know where the needs
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are. So when they are walking alongside others and they're
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identifying something with beside others and advocating
14:54
for down care portal, What we're training churches to say is,
14:57
like, to look at at those needs and say, don't try to
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discern if that is what you think that Johnny Boy needs.
15:05
Trust and lean into that relationship with the social
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worker who is inviting you in, and it's a bid for trust.
15:13
It's a bid for relationships with them and
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with their clients that they wanna trust you with. So
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we're working alongside churches predominantly to say,
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how do we do that well? And so this conversation is
15:27
crucial, and I encourage everybody to go listen to Marie
15:31
Christian's, episode if you haven't already because these are
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conversations we need to be having around our pews, around our kitchen
15:38
tables, in how we journey with others because we can
15:42
often get in the way. And we can come up with the most
15:46
interesting scenarios where we think we're
15:50
doing good. But I can tell you, I still have that
15:53
vivid image of a
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vegetarian newcomer family getting six frozen turkeys
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at Christmas. We do that because we don't have relationships, and
16:04
they become a project. And and we can do better, and I've seen better.
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Well, Wendy, do you have any examples of of seeing better?
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Yeah. We have thousands of examples literally.
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We just reached, over a thousand children served,
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by local churches through the care portal. I know. That's a
16:27
big deal. And, actually, there's more. This is what we have documented. It's
16:30
a very transparent, system of how care
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sharing happens in our country. But, there are so
16:38
many stories and examples of families
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receiving care and them feeling seen and heard because they
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said, you know what? We've been sleeping on the floor, and we were at risk
16:49
of losing our kids because we couldn't provide. You know what? I I
16:53
lost a job. I I I couldn't do it. It we were just fell in
16:56
hard times. And where the church showed up in those
17:00
timely spaces, they didn't actually know what was needed. And we've taken
17:04
that guesswork out with care portal, because the social worker has been
17:08
able to advocate alongside them. And within hours,
17:12
within twenty four hours, they were all in beds. And
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and so there's story after story. There there's youth that didn't
17:19
think they could get that construction job after they've aged out.
17:23
And within hours, within days, they were responded to
17:27
by the church knocking on their door and saying, here we
17:30
are. We we heard you needed this. And and it's just received
17:34
with such warmth because we're not imposing steel boat toed
17:38
boots on him, and I'll go get a job. Now, like, pull yourself up by
17:41
the bootstraps. We're listening and saying, what is it that
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you need to succeed this month and to see his
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dreams come true and get to that next step? Because the
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church wasn't giving them a bouncy castle or a hot dog or
17:56
come to our men's program. They were saying, here.
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Just simply, we're here for you, and we hear you.
18:04
That is just like, you can get addicted to
18:08
caring, just because you're seeing that
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relationship happen in real time a thousand
18:15
times over. We wanna see a million times over across our nation.
18:19
We can do better by simply listening. And now we
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even have technology to help us listen better because, let's face it, we don't
18:27
even know what the needs are. We don't even have mechanisms
18:31
to listen. We don't have relationships to listen. So we're
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taking that guesswork out of compassion simply by bringing some
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technology to help us do better. And we have a ton of stories from
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care portal. Like, that's you're just sharing a few examples. Yeah.
18:46
But so we'd be missed to not talk about this subject
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that was predominant in our conversation with Marie is safe storytelling
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and ethics. We're asking for these stories. In fact, the first
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episode that we did with her two years ago is is called telling stories safely
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or Mhmm. Along those lines of sharing stories safely.
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Here's a quote Marie said. We wanna make an impact. We wanna touch
19:08
people's hearts, and we wanna see change happen, but not at the
19:12
cost of your own mental health, emotional health.
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So my question is, how could we tell those hard stories
19:19
that invite compassion without turning people's pain into content? I
19:23
mean, this is something I wrestle with as a podcast producer.
19:27
We're working on a kind of a true crime
19:31
type podcast coming up where Yeah. It really is telling a
19:35
story about someone's pain. And we don't wanna just find
19:38
those hard stories to turn them into content for the sake of of
19:42
doing something edgy or or for the sake of telling a story
19:46
that are gonna intrigue an audience. We wanna tell stories that are gonna cause transformation,
19:50
and we don't wanna hurt the storyteller at the same time. Yeah. So
19:54
how do we tell those hard stories without turning people's pain into content?
19:57
You know that feeling? Yeah. You you've touched on a really
20:01
important topic there, Johan. Juice sells.
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Blood sells. Like, people want the juicy stories.
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And we have to be careful when we're even inviting
20:12
people, when we're even asking questions with people going through
20:16
hardship. You need to earn trust to be
20:20
shared that those deeper stories and those deeper
20:23
realities, and and it can be exploitative. And as
20:27
mama bear to my my children, I
20:31
know people want they mean well, and they often want the juice of,
20:34
like, what's going on in your family? And tell me their
20:38
stories. And I'm like, that's really my children's
20:41
stories to share. I just get to journey with them,
20:45
and it's not something I have privilege to disclose.
20:49
And yet, people going through hardship do need
20:53
people they can trust and confide in, that they can actually share their
20:57
story. So part of, like, going back to care portal, part of the the big
21:01
things that we work on with social services and caseworkers that
21:04
are in those stories. They're they're living those out alongside these
21:08
people. They're seeing what is needed, and they're
21:12
needing some extra community supports. One of the big
21:16
things that we really land on is how to share
21:19
stories safely, not giving out too much information, but
21:23
humanizing the individual. How do we bring
21:27
the human side of it? When we're sharing other people's stories, how
21:30
would they feel if you were saying this in front of
21:34
them? Would it be honoring? Would it be looking at the good, not just the
21:37
tragedy or that they're a pity case if we're talking about
21:41
somebody? And then when we're inviting other people to
21:45
maybe speak in our church, maybe there's somebody that have come into your
21:48
church that are sharing their testimony. How do we invite
21:52
storytelling in an ethical way? And you'll have to go back to
21:56
the the link in the show notes on, Marie's first episode
22:00
with us on that. But how do we invite people without
22:04
extracting too much where they're left vulnerable, they're left
22:07
open gaping wounds because we've invited them to speak it, and yet we
22:11
don't provide adequate support, relational support,
22:15
trauma care. Trauma care is crucial to creating
22:19
that felt safety. How do we do that? We have to check our
22:23
motives. When we're asking people to share about themselves,
22:27
is it because we want to know, or is it because
22:31
we're leaning in inviting them into a safe place?
22:35
And we have to go at the pace of relationships, not
22:38
in in our unsatiated desire to know what the the scoop is on their
22:42
life. And like I mentioned, this other podcast we're working on,
22:46
that was one of the things that I wanna make sure right off the hop.
22:49
Like, I didn't really know this person very well. So we started our
22:52
conversation by saying, hey, what are some of the talking points that you don't want
22:56
us to touch on? Mhmm. What are some of those off limits
22:59
areas? And they were honest right away. And I think we're
23:03
gonna get better stories and more authentic stories when
23:07
we create that felt safety, which was our CareLingo word last last week.
23:11
Mhmm. When we create that felt safety for them to be able to share their
23:14
stories in a safe place. Before we end this conversation,
23:18
Marie mentioned this a few times, so it felt really important. She had these
23:22
four words that she was using to describe as a framework for
23:25
advocacy and good listening. Can you remember those four things, and do you
23:29
have anything that you want to riff on for those?
23:33
Yeah. The it's just a really simple way that we can
23:36
all take to heart. We can all memorize these things. It's four
23:40
words. It's ask, listen, believe, and act.
23:44
And so, I would encourage you right now,
23:48
write it down, like, jog it into your memory
23:51
right now. Ask. So we've talked about it already. We
23:55
can ask questions and not just in an inquisitive kind
23:59
of nosy kind of way, but asking questions that
24:02
say, I'm here for you. I'm interested in your day, not just about what I
24:06
wanna get out of this conversation or or out of your story
24:10
and, not assuming what people need. Just
24:14
ask people what what is it that you would like, in this
24:18
situation to happen? And then to listen and
24:21
truly listen, unbiased listen. We we need to check
24:25
our biases and and listen just for the sake of connecting
24:29
and hearing what is behind what they're saying. What
24:33
is it that they're actually saying that I'm not paying attention to that I need
24:37
to listen? And then there is believe. We need to believe in what
24:41
people are saying, believe in them, believe that they have
24:45
the Imago Dei in them, and that what they are
24:48
experiencing is their reality and is something that
24:52
we need to understand in order to appropriately
24:56
respond. So we need to believe what they're saying. A child, an
25:00
elderly, an intoxicated person, believe
25:03
where they're at. And then we need to act. We need to do
25:07
something. And that we could do many things, but let's not start
25:11
with act. Often, we wanna start with act. Just tell me what to do, and
25:14
I'll do it. No. We need to ask, listen, believe, and then act.
25:18
That's just a response. How does God want you to respond?
25:22
What is God inviting you into their story for? And who are
25:25
you? And then how is God asking you to respond? Here we
25:29
go. ALBA. That's that's your acronym. Oh, ALBA. Yes.
25:33
Alba's up. Alba's up. Okay,
25:37
guys. This is a new riff on, Canadian politics here.
25:40
Instead of elbows up and antagonism, let's go elbows up. I think
25:44
we could actually run with this. Okay.
25:49
Now it's time for Care lingo.
25:53
Our word today is withness, and we
25:57
got a few people commenting on the Care Impact
26:00
podcast group. Again, if you wanna comment on any
26:03
CareLingo segments that we post there or just get in on the conversation,
26:08
join a group of awesome people because, well, Wendy
26:11
and I are there. So Come
26:15
join us. Come join us. It's fun. We wanna grow the group. It'll
26:19
be fun. Lots of good stuff on there. Withness. Again,
26:22
so Ashley commented when you need someone to back you up in
26:26
court, but you have somewhat of a speech impediment, kinda like
26:30
me. And you say, can I get
26:33
a? Can I get a? I mean, I'm not making fun of
26:37
people with a list because I have a little bit of one. So in fact,
26:40
I had a speech impediment when I was very young. Realize that of you,
26:44
Johan. So so this is your word then? Would you own this? I
26:47
could yeah. Yeah. I would own this. In fact, when I was young, I couldn't
26:51
pronounce consonants. It was all vowels. Oh, wow. Well, here you are being
26:55
a podcast cohost. So And then there's Kathy who
26:58
commented, it's someone who is really with it. They have withness about
27:02
them. Kathy, you are with it. Yeah. She's got
27:05
some withness. Now my definition I was kinda running
27:09
with Ashley's before I heard all this, but then I had another one. I'm like,
27:13
you know what? Those cryptids, we got
27:16
Loch Ness. You know, when you wanna take a selfie with Loch Ness, you got
27:20
the lake behind you, and you see Loch Ness in the background. Let's go. I
27:23
know. Let's go. I know. You take this selfie, you're with Ness. Oh, yeah.
27:26
He's like, yeah. I'm with Ness right now. Anyway, that's what it could
27:30
mean. But what does it actually mean, Wendy? Unless you have
27:34
a offbeat definition. I don't think I could beat those ones. Ashley,
27:38
Kathy, Johan, like, you you guys got me beat, but, for
27:41
many people, withness might sound like a
27:45
a spelling error or something speech impediment, but it it
27:49
actually is kind of a coined language maybe more recently that
27:53
we have also included in some of our language.
27:57
And when you hear us say witness, it really means being radically
28:00
present with others and and being sort of that
28:04
advocate but with. Instead of just witnessing and
28:08
seeing, observing what's happening out there, There's a radical
28:12
presence about, witnessing what is here,
28:15
what we are gonna be with. So witness is mean fully
28:19
engaged with someone or a community in the
28:22
moment, offering your attention and your support and
28:26
understanding without judgment, and it's about being there
28:30
for them. Truly listening and connecting and validating other
28:33
people's experiences. And, Johan, if there's
28:37
a word that is more appropriate to our timing in society
28:41
in North America, we need a lot more
28:44
withness from the church, from society to
28:48
be with each other. That, again, that relational building
28:52
intervention that we need to have more witness. And
28:56
so I encourage you, try putting it into your day, try practicing it
29:00
in your day as you see the news, as you're walking down the street,
29:04
as you're in work, being with your family, witness.
29:08
And I dare you to try to say witness now without saying it with a
29:11
lisp because I can't do it right now. Let's make,
29:15
lisping cool again. Alright. So listeners, if you
29:18
resonated with this conversation and Marie's conversation, hey, send it
29:22
to a friend, send it to someone that you think would benefit from this conversation.
29:26
Sharing word-of-mouth is the way that we can get more people on board
29:30
with these conversations and take it deeper. Like, let's have conversations
29:34
around that dinner table with family and friends. And remember to
29:37
join the Facebook group, Care Impact Podcast Group.
29:41
And as always, or for the first time, remember
29:44
to keep Alba's up.
29:49
And stay curious.
29:53
Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on
29:56
weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with
30:00
our community, visit journeywithcare. Ca, or find Care
30:03
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30:07
these links and all the links related to this episode. Share your
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thoughts, leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals
30:14
journeying in faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can
30:18
make a meaningful impact.