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The Balancing Act: Self-Esteem vs. Self-Compassion · The Virtual Couch

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Hey everybody, welcome to episode 433 of the Virtual Couch.
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I am your host, Tony Overbay.
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I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and today
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I wanna start with a story.
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So we're gonna go back in the time machine.
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I remember this from my very, very early days as a junior therapist,
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as a therapist, trainee and intern.
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And this is one of those moments that really stuck with me and I think it
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played more of a role of shaping how I think about therapy some 20 years
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later than I initially thought it did.
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Caused me to have some early thoughts, the big feelings around people's desires
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and dreams and, and the ever so delicate balance or this dance between hope and
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reality, especially in your role as a therapist, but I can only imagine somebody
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coming into a therapist trying to help.
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Lay all these things out in front of somebody that feels a little
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bit awkward, maybe uncomfortable.
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And then now what do we do?
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Picture this, I'm at this training.
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I'm fresh out of graduate school.
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This is a change in my career.
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Now it's fully in place.
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I'm in my early thirties, just spent a decade in the computer software industry.
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And now I think I finally maybe found, found my place, found my calling and
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I'm excited, but I am still so new.
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I have no clue what I don't.
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I don't even know that I don't know and I'm eager to just soak up all
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the wisdom that I can and I cannot even remember the exact year.
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I wish I could track down the therapist who led this training to
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test my memory, but his words left a very strong impression that I still
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do believe I'm hearing them today.
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So we started with this question and he asked the entire room of therapists.
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How many of you tell your clients that you can truly be anything
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that you put your mind to?
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And I really.
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Remember, almost everybody's hand shot up, including mine, of course, right?
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Because as therapists, you want to empower people, you want to inspire
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them to reach for their dreams.
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You know, it's, it's basically like in the job description and
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why you get into the business.
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And again, this is 20 years ago where the stigma around mental
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health was still pretty heavy.
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So you just felt like, man, I must deliver.
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This person does not have the internet.
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They do not have all the places that they can go.
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This is up to me.
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So then he asked us to pause and He said, give me a little bit of grace.
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And then he laid out a very hypothetical scenario.
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He said, so imagine a guy comes in to your office.
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He's in his mid sixties.
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He's struggling with his own mobility and he has significant weight challenges.
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And he comes to you and said, I do not want to leave this earth without
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achieving my dream of becoming the oldest person ever to play in the
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National Basketball Association.
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And he's never even really played organized basketball and doesn't really
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watch much basketball either, but he really has just wanted to play in the
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NBA and the room went quiet because you could feel this this tension
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because it was such a powerful question.
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Do we as therapists say you can absolutely do it?
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, you can do anything you put your mind to because we want to support his
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dream, or do we feel like I must gently guide him toward a place of acceptance,
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toward reframing his aspirations, his hopes, and his dreams into
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something a little bit more realistic, or actually a lot more realistic.
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And then, what actually followed was One of the, I would almost say one of
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the most heated debates that I've ever witnessed in a therapist training room.
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Because on one side, there were people saying, well, who are we to tell
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somebody that their dream isn't valid?
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Maybe his goal isn't actually about making it to the NBA, but it's about
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living with a passion and a purpose.
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And other people would argue, but isn't part of your role as a therapist
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to help the client face reality.
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To protect him from the disappointment of chasing something unattainable because we
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know what that's going to look like after he recognizes that what was I thinking?
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And I can't even believe that you didn't tell me this.
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You didn't call me out on this when I brought it to you.
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And the moment stayed with me for a couple of reasons.
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First, it was an early glimpse into how nuanced I think therapy can be.
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What is my role to support or to motivate or to hold accountable
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or to challenge or to question?
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And then what actually comes up for me?
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And wait, now I actually wanted to be in the NBA too, but my subconscious
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will never allow this guy to achieve that dream or that would mean that
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there's more that I could have done.
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Maybe I could have done something like that too.
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But then in second, it really forced me to think about that balance between fostering
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hope and helping clients explore their dreams and what are their feelings that
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are underneath those dreams and, and where are they coming from and what are their
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limitations and how can discovering those actually be very beneficial and how can
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we eventually tie all this back to their parents and, uh, and all of that with.
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With empathy and with compassion.
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So here we are 20 years later.
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And I still think about that experience and all the fields
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that can come along with it.
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I can find myself getting passionate about it right now.
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So today I want to explore how this story ties into a broader conversation
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about self esteem versus self compassion.
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Something that I covered on here a couple of weeks ago with my
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associates, Marla and Nate Christensen.
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I highly recommend that you go find that, that episode.
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And this is all based around.
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Kristen Neff, who is a leading researcher in self compassion has been writing about
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extensively for over the last two decades because she explains that self esteem is
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often about comparing ourselves to others.
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That it's about feeling good enough, or it's by believing that we are
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special, successful, or above average.
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But here's the catch though, what she shows in her research
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is that not everybody can be above average all the time.
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And she had some really funny stats that she shared, and in her research she
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showed that 90 percent of people think that they're better than average drivers.
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And I would definitely put myself in that category, even, she said, those
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who have recently been in accidents.
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So self esteem can sometimes become this fragile thing because it's dependent
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upon external validation and it's also dependent upon things like comparisons and
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not to go off on too much of a tangent.
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I remember reading the book Radical Acceptance, and there's a quote
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there by the author Tara Brock.
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And she brought this thing up about comparison.
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And I thought it was really fascinating.
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She was talking about in a spiritual context the concept around Buddhism.
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And she was saying that it offers this, this challenge to a cultural worldview
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that , she references that the Buddha taught that human birth is a precious
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gift because it gives us this opportunity to, to realize the love and awareness
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that are part of our true nature.
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So she said, spiritual awakening becomes this process of recognizing
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our essential goodness, our natural wisdom, our compassion.
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She said in stark contrast to this trust in our inherent worth is our
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culture's guiding myth, which is more around the story of Adam and Eve and
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their exile from the garden of Eden.
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, we might forget its power because it seems so worn and familiar, but the
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story shapes and reflects this deep psyche of the West, because this message
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of original sin or Kind of the what's wrong with me story is, is unequivocal.
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Because of our basically flawed nature, we don't deserve to be
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happy or loved by others or at ease with life because we're outcasts.
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And if we are to reenter the garden, we have to redeem our sinful selves
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and we have to overcome our flaws by controlling our bodies, controlling
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our emotions, controlling our natural surroundings, controlling other people,
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and therefore we must strive tirelessly.
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Working, acquiring, consuming, achieving, emailing, overcommitting,
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and rushing, and this never ending quest to prove ourselves once and for all.
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And I felt like that tied in a little bit to Kristen Neff's research, where
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she's saying that this self esteem that we constantly talk about, and that we
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want to develop, is maybe more fragile.
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And again, depending on external validation and then comparisons,
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Because I think it's safe to say that comparison can be a really, really
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dangerous thing, especially if you are looking, let's take the social media
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example, which is the obvious one, and I can look and see these ideal
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lives that other people are living.
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. It lowers my self esteem because I feel like I am not living as good
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of a life as these other people.
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And so this comparison becomes if I can look better and do more or
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do better than these people that I can see, then maybe I'll be happy.
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Then maybe I'll have this self esteem.
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So if we go back to the guy in the scenario that I laid out earlier,
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if his self esteem is wrapped up in achieving something extraordinary,
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Playing in the NBA at the age of 60, then it's easy to see how failure could
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actually start to lead to shame and disappointment and feeling like he's not
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good enough and what's wrong with him.
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And I have had plenty of clients who have continually felt like they needed
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to find that thing that made them.
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Special that allowed them to leave their mark on the world to make them relevant.
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And this isn't to say that people can't try to change the world, but
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I go back to this quote that Carl Rogers, one of the most influential
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psychologists of the 20th century said, which he calls the curious paradox.
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And that curious paradox is that when I accept myself just
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as I am, then I can change.
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I think this is where self compassion offers such a powerful alternative
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because self compassion isn't about being the best or achieving a specific goal.
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It's about treating yourself with kindness and acceptance, even.
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When you fail or fall short, and it's about saying I am enough.
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I am worthy just as I am imperfections and all and I know
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that this is absolutely a me thing.
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But if you are a listener of the virtual couch, this might ring a bell, but I'm
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not even a big fan of the concepts of when you fail or fall short or imperfections
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and all because this is the very first time that you're going through life as
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you me as me period and what some might view as my imperfections are things
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Called a bald and five foot eight or five, seven without shoes or things like ADHD
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because they are, that's what they are.
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They just are.
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And that is where I believe self compassion is an absolute key.
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And it leads to a far more connected version of life, a connection to myself,
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to the present moment, to those around me, because we're just being and doing.
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In this very moment, check that out.
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What's your experience?
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Let me share my experience with you
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because this is the way that we'll find true connection, not wasting
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emotional time and calories and energy wondering why, why am I not taller?
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Well, I guess at least I am taller than that guy, so that
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makes me feel a lot better.
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Or why didn't I figure out certain aspects of my own life sooner?
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Why did I wait so long to get my ADHD diagnosis?
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And well, at least I did get it sooner than this other person.
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And just giving myself grace and compassion that I am actually figuring
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things out now, which means I could quite possibly continue to figure out
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things about myself and others and life as I continue moving forward.
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Now there, there's data to support both sides of the debate on one hand,
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you can set big ambitious goals and they can inspire action and they
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can give people a sense of purpose.
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We've got the new year coming up and so many people are tied
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to New Year's resolutions.
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And if that works for somebody, then that is amazing.
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And you go and you do.
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But there are also others that feel like those concepts actually end
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up having more of a net negative effect and make them feel worse.
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I do agree.
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Hope is a powerful motivator.
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Studies show that hope can increase resilience.
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It can improve mental health.
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But on the other hand, unrealistic goals can lead to things like
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burnout, frustration, a lot of shame.
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The I am broken.
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I am bad.
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What's wrong with me story.
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Because when people set themselves up for what could be failure, it can actually
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harm their self esteem in the long run.
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Where does this leave us as therapists or even just as people trying to
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support the dreams of those who we care about or our own dreams?
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I think the answer really does lie in value based goal setting something
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that we talk about a lot in therapy.
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What if the man's dream of playing the NBA wasn't about basketball at all?
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What if it was about something deeper value, like staying physically
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active or contributing to a team or pushing himself to try new things?
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Because if we can help clients connect with their underlying core values.
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Then I think we can guide them toward goals that are both
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meaningful and achievable.
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But I go back to this concept of radical acceptance which
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doesn't mean giving up on dreams.
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It means accepting the reality, radically accepting the reality of
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where we are and having this, this trust that we're going to continue to
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move forward with hope, with intention.
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MBA career probably isn't likely.
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But embracing a new goal, maybe coaching a youth basketball team, joining a rec
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league that might still align with his values, or you can even look at it like
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it's good that he even came into therapy and said, this is something that I'm
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exploring something that I want to do, because now that he started to do now,
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he will find other things along that path that might be of more value to him.
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But ultimately, I think the best work that we can do is help people navigate
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this balance because we can validate feelings, we can honor dreams, and still
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gently guide people toward goals that will bring them joy and fulfillment.
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And I'm not just talking to other therapists, you are somebody that is
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really still stuck on the, I don't even know what to do, then you're right
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in the, you're in the right place.
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Because now it's just time to start doing you can have this dream.
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Check this out.
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I still want to play in the NBA.
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That's wild.
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Right.
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But what is that really about?
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What does it mean?
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Is that my own brain trying to wake me up a little bit and say yeah,
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I'm trying all kinds of things here, but they're not motivating you.
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So I'm thinking I'm going to go big.
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I'm going to throw the Hail Mary pass because yeah, Validating your own
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feelings, honoring your own dreams, you can still then gently guide them
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toward, toward goals that will bring you some joy, some fulfillment, a purpose,
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because none of this, even for ourselves, is about crushing somebody's hope.
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It's about creating a life that feels rich and a life that feels
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meaningful no matter where they start.
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And I believe that job of a parent is to be right there to provide the
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secure attachment, this home based operate from so that as my kids want
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to do things, want to explore things.
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If I immediately say, I don't think that's a good idea.
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That's pretty clear.
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That's a me issue.
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But why don't I first find out what it is that they want to do.
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And one of the best things that you can do is then say, how can I show up for you?
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How can I support you?
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Because.
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A lot of times that's maybe the kid or, or somebody close to us, a
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friend, a spouse that they're just trying to test the waters themselves.
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And if you then immediately say, I don't think that's a good idea.
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I don't think you should do that.
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There's a story, a current story with of my son that I think
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is a really fascinating one.
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He was playing college basketball.
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He decided he didn't want to play anymore.
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That was hard for me.
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I liked saying I had a son playing college basketball.
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I already bought the t shirts.
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I was ready to go to the games.
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And then he said he wants to be a pro golfer.
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And immediately my first thoughts were Hey bud, you really haven't
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played a whole lot of golf.
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I don't think that's a good idea.
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But that's a me thing.
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I've never been him.
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So instead I was able to say, tell me more about that.
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What does that look like?
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And just a couple of weeks ago, he passed his PAT, this test to one of
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the big steps on becoming a pro golfer.
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That was a huge accomplishment and it made me realize this thought
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I've had so often of don't be the one that crushes one's dreams.
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But then , my , my next thought is let life do that to them.
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But it's maybe a little tongue in cheek, but in reality though, had I
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shut down his desire to become a pro golfer, Could he have gone the rest
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of his life thinking, man, I could have been a pro golfer where instead that's
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easy for me to say, go for it, man.
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What can I do to help anything I can do to support you?
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Because then a lot of times people start down that path and then that's when
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they realize maybe this isn't for me.
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And I think that's more of what life's about more of what a
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secure attachment looks like.
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Hey, I'm here right beside you.
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I'm offering you a home base that you can operate from and you go and explore.
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Because a lot of times once that person accepts that this is who they are, and
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this is something that they've always wanted to do, and nobody's pushing back
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against that, then I think often they will then see that either that is something
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that they really want to do, or they'll get into that position and say, Oh,
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okay, I always thought that this would be different, but I feel safe enough now to
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admit that and move on to whatever's next.
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But Not long ago, I reached out to some listeners.
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And I asked the question, what comes to mind when you hear the words self esteem?
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And I thought the responses were pretty interesting.
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One person said, self esteem is about trying to feel good about yourself.
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, which can be really hard, especially when I'm on social media, whenever
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I slowed my life down, because I definitely don't want to be spending
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a lot of time with my own thoughts.
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Another person said, it's overrated.
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You can't always feel great about yourself.
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And that's okay.
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Another person said self esteem.
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It's about how people see themselves, but I think it causes problems
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because we compare too much.
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Another person said self esteem is about feeling good about yourself
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when you're doing well, but it sure doesn't help when you're struggling.
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And then another wrote in and said, self esteem is about feeling good.
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And I don't know exactly where you're going with the question, but if I'm
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being completely honest, it's pretty easy when you're successful or when
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your hair looks good, sorry, Tony, and your outfits clean and you slept well
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and things are going well in your life.
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But that also means that self esteem can be fragile, which I'm guessing is
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where you're going to go with this.
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So I think it's safe to say that most of us grew up learning about self
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esteem , , but now we're learning more and more that self compassion, might be
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the golden ticket or the secret sauce.
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And I want to beat this drum as loudly as I can because it really
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adds another significant puzzle piece to what I just like talking about
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so much on any and all podcasts.
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And that is some of the key points of acceptance and commitment therapy,
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that you are the only version of you.
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That you think and feel the way that you do because you do.
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And let's get into the concept of psychological reactance,
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which is that instant negative reaction of being told what to do.
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Why you can't use thought suppression.
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You can't just stop thinking about something.
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And I hear that so often in my office, I just need to stop thinking about it.
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Good luck.
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Stop thinking about the turtle right now wearing a top hat who's
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trying to cross a busy highway.
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I think we all just did it right then and then think about how that I just
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told you to think about it now You're probably saying I will not think about
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it But I believe that plays into our emotional immaturity because somebody
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might be telling us exactly What would be beneficial for us and we we may even
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know that it would be beneficial for us But the fact that somebody else is telling
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us what to do and when truly nobody else knows exactly what it feels like to be
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You then that psychological reactance kicks in and we suddenly sound like a
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little kid You know, I think it would be really good for you to start saving money.
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I don't want to.
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That's dumb.
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You're dumb.
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And then maybe they leave and now the inner child in us continues
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to be in charge, to have the mic.
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Everybody's dumb.
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Everybody's stupid.
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Nobody understands me.
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Which then can often lead to the, what's wrong with me?
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I'm so broken.
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Or nobody cares about me.
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And , now we have to prove our worth.
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But what is our worth?
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Well, the immature way to go about it is to play the, at least
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I'm better than that guy game.
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Because we're back to comparisons, rather than, okay, give yourself some grace.
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Where's the compassion?
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And remember, when you were a little kid, your emotions and
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your feelings, they were big.
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And when you tried to express them, most likely you were told, to knock it off.
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It's not a big deal.
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Calm down.
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We don't do that.
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We don't say that.
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Well, what did you do to cause that?
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So over time we internalize those emotions and we started learning that
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or believing this story that we were too much and our feelings were too much.
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And what is wrong with me?
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And why do I have these feelings?
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Because I'm not being encouraged to, to have them at all, but they
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were trying desperately to help you.
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Those feelings were those emotions because you didn't have your big kid words.
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To express yourself.
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You didn't have your big kid body to be able to jump in a car and go
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on a drive to cool off or to drive to a gym or to go to a therapist.
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Your little kid body was saying, okay, we'll remember these feelings
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and we will, we will imprint them.
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We will encode them on your heart, in your head, in your gut, and then
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do me a solid little version of me.
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When you grow up and you're big you go heal us and eat all
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the ice cream that you want.
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I mean, at least for a little while, because ultimately
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nobody is going to do it for us.
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The healing part.
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But you'll do this for us, right?
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But then we grow up that adult body and unfortunately we somewhere
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lost that memo and now our body is saying, there, there's that feeling
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of not being enough, now go fix it.
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But instead of finding our own purpose to fix it, so that we know
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that we're enough, enough for us, we still respond very immaturely
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and we still say nobody likes me.
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Well, okay then, big version of you, learn to like yourself.
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Nobody understands me.
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Okay, big version of you.
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Learn to understand yourself.
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What is your meaning?
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What is your purpose?
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What your body, what your emotions, what your traumas, and what your fears,
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and what your dreams are all about.
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And figure yourself out.
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Because you can.
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You can do this.
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You are an adult now.
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So you could free yourself from all of your childhood, your adolescent, your
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teen, your adult trauma, But what you need now, and what you needed then,
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was compassion, grace, love, patience.
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The things that I would imagine you'd tell a friend if they brought
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all of these challenges, these issues, these problems to you.
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You have to love yourself.
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Okay, and if your inner child just reactanced all over me
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right there, no, I don't want to.
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That's dumb.
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Okay?
20:26
Take two.
20:27
How about this?
20:28
What would that look like if you learned to love yourself?
20:30
Can you imagine what that might feel like?
20:33
So ideally, I would love for you to just take me on your train of thought.
20:36
Tell me your hopes.
20:37
Tell me your dreams, your fears.
20:38
Nothing is off limits.
20:39
Nothing is gonna sound too crazy.
20:41
Who did you think you would be when you were a kid?
20:44
What did you dream about?
20:45
Because this is your journey.
20:47
. It is time for you to liberate that trapped inner child inside of you who
20:51
really can't wait to spend some more time with you and learn to discover and figure
20:56
out and rule out all those things that you thought about when you were a kid.
20:59
Did you want to be an astronaut?
21:01
I did, totally.
21:02
Turns out you have to know math.
21:04
And I'm not a big fan of math.
21:06
But who knew it wasn't just about floating around in space and
21:08
bouncing around the moon and eating tang flavored paste from a tube.
21:12
I don't really want to do that anymore either.
21:14
Think about how often we judge ourselves based on comparing ourselves
21:17
to others or how we're constantly trying to prove that we're good enough.
21:21
And this is especially true when we recognize our emotional immaturity.
21:26
Because at that point, we really are looking for external validation.
21:28
And if we don't feel good about ourselves, it really doesn't matter
21:30
what somebody else is going to say.
21:31
When we're looking for this external validation, so often we're just trying
21:34
to be above average at everything.
21:36
Which, when you think about it, again, not a big fan of math, but
21:40
it's pretty mathematically impossible.
21:42
But here's where it gets interesting.
21:43
Just like we've talked about how you don't know what you don't know, many
21:46
of us don't realize that there are other ways to relate to ourselves.
21:50
Back to the topic of today.
21:51
self compassion.
21:53
Let me share a couple of examples that I think show how this plays out.
21:56
And I've had more than one client try their hand at singing or even comedy at
22:00
an open mic night or in a coffee shop.
22:02
And Kristen Neff in one of her research papers lays out this
22:05
exact example so beautifully.
22:06
And it is so true, but imagine you're gathering your courage.
22:10
You're going to perform at a local coffee house and open mic, whatever
22:13
that looks like, whatever you're gonna perform, comedy, poetry, music,
22:17
and you ask your friends and your family or anybody who happened to.
22:20
Come support you.
22:21
And you asked him, , what'd you think?
22:23
And somebody says, Hey, you were average.
22:26
Now, if you were like most people, the word average feels like a punch
22:28
to your gut, but here's where we want to pause and use this as our muse.
22:32
What can this reaction teach us about ourselves?
22:34
Why does being average feel so threatening to our sense of self?
22:38
According to Kristen Neff, this is where self compassion comes in.
22:41
That instead of getting caught in that childhood defense mechanism
22:44
of shame, that, oh, I must be bad, we're putting our self worth in the
22:47
hands of others, self compassion offers a completely different path.
22:51
It's about treating ourselves with kindness and recognizing
22:54
our shared humanity and staying mindful of our experiences without
22:57
getting overwhelmed by them.
22:58
Okay, the truth is, I probably was.
23:00
Average, maybe I might even been a little bit below average if I was brand
23:03
new to this, but why would I think that I was supposed to be so incredible?
23:07
The very first time I tried something.
23:09
I, because I am trying it.
23:10
I'm not, I'm not going to be the best.
23:11
It's part of growing and learning and part of this human experience, because
23:15
I love the idea that everything at the end of the day, or actually during the
23:18
day as well and at the beginning of the day, all day long is a me thing.
23:22
Why am I disappointed that somebody else had an opinion
23:24
that didn't make me feel better?
23:26
Why do I want people around me who will only tell me?
23:29
The things that I want to hear.
23:30
Well, I mean, actually it's easy because it feels good to hear that I'm awesome at
23:33
something that I haven't ever done before.
23:35
So therefore let me surround myself with people who will most
23:37
likely tell me how great I am.
23:39
If somebody doesn't agree with the others, well, geez, okay.
23:41
Who invited this person to Debbie Downer to put a big wet blanket all over here?
23:45
Who's this jerk.
23:46
That's so rude.
23:47
Now, somebody else tell me how good I was at this thing that I'm not
23:50
actually sure if I really want to do or not, but I thought I'd give it a try.
23:52
And most likely it's probably 10 times harder than I ever thought it would be.
23:56
I can't even come close to anticipating how hard it would
23:58
be when the nerves kicked in.
23:59
Nobody told me that there would be people who wouldn't even be paying attention.
24:02
And actually nobody told me that there would be so many people
24:04
actually paying attention.
24:06
So self compassion is what is necessary in order to truly review the game
24:09
film and to be willing to take chances to know that I, I can be mediocre
24:13
or average and actually that's okay.
24:16
This is a very true confession coming.
24:18
I remember I was dozens of ultramarathons into my air quote,
24:23
ultramarathon career when it hit me, I had always said that, you know, I
24:27
would have been six, six or taller.
24:30
I would have been a pro basketball player because I just loved the game so much.
24:32
I wasn't bad.
24:33
And I, but I just wasn't gifted with the height.
24:36
But then there I was, a mid packer in the ultramarathon world, watching
24:40
others, who turns out were my age and older, starting to get sponsorship
24:44
deals, starting to make money doing what they loved, and, but I was different.
24:48
I had four kids.
24:48
I had a job.
24:50
But hang on, the guy that just won that last 50 miler has five
24:53
kids, and he's a, an attorney.
24:56
Oh yeah, but, uh, but still, he was probably a runner in high school
24:58
and in college, no, he was not.
25:00
Okay.
25:01
And then it hit me.
25:02
I am a guy who enjoys running and I was training about as hard as I think
25:08
I could at that time and I did okay.
25:12
That's about it.
25:13
But I loved running.
25:15
I loved ultra running.
25:17
I had a great time.
25:18
I was able to eventually accept that fact.
25:20
And that acceptance didn't then allow me to turn the
25:23
corner and start winning races.
25:24
No I actually went back and looked at my ultra signup account
25:28
and I was correct in that.
25:28
I took a 20th overall one year in the Lake Tahoe, 100 mile
25:32
run, a brutal, beautiful race.
25:36
But then I just saw that only 65 people actually finished.
25:39
So that was okay.
25:41
But definitely not as cool as I made it sound a lot of times
25:44
when I talked about top 20 finish and this brutal 100 mile race.
25:48
You know, I remembered one particular year where I ran the
25:50
American River 50 miler well.
25:52
7 hours and 50 minutes, my very best finish in the, I don't know, 7 or 8
25:56
times that I ran this iconic race, this American River 50 mile race.
26:00
And that was decent.
26:01
I looked that up too.
26:03
I finished 51st out of 688 entrants.
26:06
That one, I could even say, alright, that sounds pretty good.
26:09
You But the top 10 finishers all beat me by over an hour and a half.
26:12
And I was 11th in my age division.
26:15
I was 42 at the time.
26:17
So where am I going with this?
26:18
For some reason, I was able to accept mediocrity in my ultra running career
26:21
much sooner than with other areas in my life, but that actually made my running
26:25
career in general far more enjoyable, less stressful, and it didn't lead
26:29
to me not trying or giving up, which I think so often is the story that
26:33
we tell ourselves about what might happen if we don't try and become the
26:37
most bestest specialist person ever.
26:40
Which often then requires either putting others down to get there.
26:43
Man, I did really well.
26:44
Do you see how poorly those other guys did?
26:45
Or, if I didn't finish well, it makes it much harder for self acceptance.
26:49
Here comes excuses.
26:50
Well, it must have been because if everybody in the family didn't spend
26:53
so much money, then I wouldn't have to work so much, and I'd have more time
26:55
to train, and I would have done better.
26:57
So therefore, it is all your fault.
26:59
And had you guys all not been so needy and demanding, then I probably could have been
27:02
one of the greatest ultra runners ever.
27:04
But I guess that isn't the case, and admittedly, self compassion makes
27:07
stories a little less exciting.
27:09
Honestly let's talk about the two versions of this Lake Tahoe,
27:12
a hundred mile race story then.
27:14
Okay.
27:14
Here's the first one.
27:15
Oh man, Lake, Lake Tahoe, a hundred miler, one of the hardest, most
27:18
difficult races you'll ever do.
27:19
Hundreds of people are out there, hundreds of them on the
27:22
course, the elevation brutal.
27:23
You really do climb to almost 10, 000 feet and the up and down wreaks
27:27
havocs on your legs, but I'll tell you something one year I finished 20th
27:30
and that was under brutal conditions.
27:31
I mean, top 20 in a race like that.
27:34
I don't even know how many people have finished, but one
27:36
of the best races of my life.
27:37
And honestly, I could have even done better had I not had to deal with a lot
27:41
of family drama at the time and been able to train more, but you know, wife
27:44
and kids, they are demanding seriously versus Lake Tahoe 100 miler is definitely
27:51
one of the hardest races I've run.
27:53
Well, especially because I made a tremendous amount of
27:56
excuses in my training, if you even want to call it training.
27:59
Forgoing anything that would have even remotely, Help me understand what
28:03
three miles of downhill without a break at all would feel like on my quads.
28:09
Oh, and there are places within 10 miles from my very house where I could have
28:13
simulated that three mile downhill, but but I would just wake up a little
28:17
bit extra sleepy on Saturdays and then just do my long runs around my
28:20
house where it's, no elevation change.
28:23
And I told myself that I'd start eating better several months before the race.
28:26
But yeah, right.
28:27
I actually used the fact that I was training for an ultra marathon
28:30
to eat any and everything I could, which did not help me on race day.
28:33
I can assure you every pound that you're carrying is something I've heard, like
28:36
four additional pounds to your joints.
28:38
So I was feeling it.
28:39
And speaking of feeling it once again, when the starting gun went off, I
28:42
took off like I was an elite thinking, wait, What if today I could uncork
28:46
a legendary performance and I could actually finish in a top 10 or something
28:49
only to feel like I was dying when I felt my heart pumping out of my ear
28:54
holes on the very first significant climb when I also remembered, oh yeah,
28:57
altitude, but I slogged through it.
28:59
I finished in 20th place and then looked up afterward.
29:02
There were only 65 people who finished total out of maybe 130
29:05
that started, but it took me a few hours longer than I anticipated.
29:09
Now that does not sound as cool as the first one, but it's true, and it
29:12
is full of self compassion, because I was just having a human experience.
29:17
So back to the me things.
29:19
Self compassion, I think, is the ultimate me thing, because it's about how we relate
29:23
to ourselves in those moments when we feel inadequate or we feel imperfect.
29:26
But unlike self esteem, which often requires us to feel special
29:29
or above average, self compassion is about acknowledging that
29:31
being human means being yourself.
29:32
being imperfect.
29:33
And that's true for every unique version of us with all of our
29:37
nature and nurtured all the attachment wounds, life experiences.
29:40
And if I go back to the research from Kristen Neff, it is fascinating
29:43
and honestly kind of funny.
29:44
Again, 90 percent of drivers think that they are above average, even people
29:47
who have recently caused accidents.
29:48
So this is not just about driving though.
29:51
It shows how we're all trying so hard to maintain the sense of being
29:54
special, even when it defies logic.
29:56
It's like, we're all playing this impossible game where everybody
29:58
has to be above average all the time to feel okay about themselves.
30:02
So these concepts that Kristen Neff shared, self kindness versus self
30:05
judgment, what she said was that self kindness means taking a benevolent and
30:09
supportive attitude toward ourselves instead of being harshly critical.
30:13
And it involves actively showing concern for our own distress and trying
30:17
to ease our discomfort, not because we're inadequate, but because we care.
30:21
We care about ourselves.
30:22
It means being emotionally available to ourselves.
30:24
during difficult times and responding with warmth just as
30:27
we would to a friend in need.
30:29
Because think about how you would treat that best friend when
30:31
they're having a really rough day.
30:33
Hopefully, you speak to them kindly.
30:34
You try to comfort them and show that you care about their feelings.
30:37
But when we mess up or we face challenges ourselves, we often do the opposite.
30:40
We might call ourselves stupid or worthless or tell
30:42
ourselves, just get over it.
30:44
Self kindness is about treating ourself with the same care and understanding
30:47
we would show a good friend.
30:48
It's like being your own supportive best friend instead of your harshest
30:51
critic because that is not what is going to motivate you in the
30:54
way that you believe that it will.
30:55
Imagine you fail at an important test despite you studied really hard.
30:59
A self judgmental response would be, I am such an idiot.
31:01
I'll never be good enough.
31:03
I should just give up a self kindness response would be all right.
31:06
That was disappointing and it is okay to feel sad about it because testing
31:09
is stressful and I did my best.
31:11
Maybe I can talk to my teacher about what I can do differently next
31:13
time or I can find a study buddy to help me prepare better or I have
31:17
to own the fact that you know what?
31:18
I actually did not study as much as I thought I would.
31:20
She also talks about common humanity versus isolation.
31:23
Kristin Neff says common humanity means recognizing that life challenges
31:27
are just a part of being human.
31:28
They are an experience that we all share.
31:30
Now, when we struggle, we tend to irrationally feel like
31:32
everybody else is fine, and we're the only ones having problems.
31:35
I hear that in my office, honestly, on a daily basis.
31:37
That I'm the only one that is going through these things.
31:39
So part of that, what I enjoy doing, is normalizing.
31:42
Not trying dismiss somebody's problems, but to say, And that is
31:45
something that I heard often, maybe even a couple of times already today.
31:48
But when we think that we are the only ones having problems, it creates almost
31:52
this frightening sense of disconnection that makes our suffering feel much worse.
31:56
So understanding common humanity helps us feel connected rather than alone
32:00
in our struggles because we're all going through life for the very first
32:03
time and life is lifing all over us.
32:06
I was going to say, have you ever scrolled through social media, but
32:08
think about when you have scrolled through social media and felt like
32:12
everybody else has their life perfectly together while you are struggling.
32:15
There's a version of that isolation, but the truth is everyone.
32:18
And I mean, everyone, even those people with the perfect looking
32:21
Instagram feeds, they face challenges.
32:23
They make mistakes.
32:24
They feel inadequate.
32:25
Sometimes I talk to captains of industry, professionals, politicians,
32:29
entertainers, you name it.
32:31
And they are all going through things.
32:34
Common humanity is about remembering that struggling is not a personal failure.
32:38
It's just part of being human.
32:40
It's like realizing that we are all in this together, even when our
32:42
specific challenges are different.
32:44
But you would even be surprised to often find out that a lot of the struggles
32:49
that we're going through are similar.
32:51
It's one of the greatest reasons to have things like support groups,
32:54
because people feel a tremendous sense of, of relief when there's community
32:58
around, especially a challenge.
33:00
So let's say you're going through a breakup.
33:02
The isolation response would be, nobody understands what I'm
33:05
going through, everybody else has perfect relationships, and I'm the
33:08
only one who can't make it work.
33:09
A common humanity response would be heartbreak is something that almost
33:12
everyone experiences at some point.
33:13
Millions of people have felt this way before me, and millions will feel
33:17
this way after me, and it's painful.
33:18
It is.
33:19
And that is okay for me to feel that pain, but it's also a normal part
33:22
of the human experience of love.
33:25
And then Kristen F.
33:25
also talks about mindfulness versus over identification.
33:28
So, her concept of this is that mindfulness involves maintaining balanced
33:31
awareness that neither avoids Nor exaggerates our present moment experience
33:36
without acknowledging our pain because we can't show ourselves compassion
33:41
unless we're willing to acknowledge that I am feeling pain in this very moment.
33:47
But if we become overly identified with the negative thoughts and
33:50
those negative feelings, we do start to lose this perspective
33:53
that we need to care for ourselves.
33:55
So mindfulness, being mindful, learning to, to change our relationship with
33:59
our thoughts and our feelings and emotions and recognize them because
34:02
they are going to tell us something.
34:03
But that mindfulness concept helps us recognize that our negative
34:06
thoughts and feelings are just that.
34:07
They are thoughts and they are feelings.
34:09
They're not a permanent reality.
34:10
, imagine your emotions are like these weather patterns over identification.
34:15
It's like thinking that a storm will last forever while avoiding your
34:17
feelings is like pretending that the storm isn't happening at all.
34:20
So mindfulness is the middle path.
34:23
It is about acknowledging that the storm is happening right now.
34:25
I can notice it, I can feel it, I can smell it, but
34:28
remembering that it will pass.
34:30
It's about being very observant of your thoughts and your feelings and your
34:33
emotions and your sensations without just getting completely swept away
34:36
by them or trying to push them aside.
34:39
So let's say that you make an embarrassing mistake during a presentation,
34:43
whether it's at work, school.
34:45
Over identification would be, I am a complete failure.
34:47
My life is ruined.
34:48
Everybody will remember this forever, and I will never
34:49
recover from this humiliation.
34:51
Avoidance would be, that's fine, whatever, I don't care.
34:53
I don't care what anybody thinks.
34:55
A more mindful response would be, okay, I am noticing that I am feeling embarrassed
34:58
right now, and that's understandable.
35:01
Thank you brain for pointing this out to me because I'm going to let this in.
35:04
These feelings may even feel intense.
35:06
Where do I feel them?
35:07
Are they in my chest?
35:08
Are they in my stomach?
35:08
How big are they?
35:10
Are they sharp?
35:10
Are they dull?
35:11
Is it just this constant feeling, but I know that they won't last forever.
35:15
This is one moment in my life, not a definition of who I am.
35:19
Let me share a very real example that just happened for me just this week
35:24
I had a situation with my podcast, waking up the narcissism that tested
35:27
my ability to practice self compassion.
35:29
Boy, did it.
35:30
I'd released the eighth episode in a series called Death by a Thousand Cuts,
35:33
where listeners share their stories about the seemingly small but deeply damaging
35:37
moments and unhealthy relationships.
35:39
And this Death by a Thousand Cuts series explores how these minor incidents, which
35:43
a lot of people will dismiss if they're not in these types of relationships,
35:47
can gradually erode somebody's whole sense of self, especially when they
35:50
occur over and over and over again without accountability on the part of
35:54
the person that is inflicting these cuts.
35:56
After releasing the episode, a couple of listeners reached out
35:59
about audio gaps and some odd pauses and things in the recording.
36:04
Took me a day or two because it was Thanksgiving, and then I checked,
36:06
and I discovered I had accidentally uploaded an unedited version full of
36:10
stops and starts, content that was meant to be cleaned up in post production.
36:13
And this created a perfect storm of emotions and an opportunity to observe
36:17
how different mindsets from harsh self criticism to avoidance to mindful self
36:21
compassion, might handle such a situation.
36:24
Why don't I break these down for you and three different approaches and
36:26
how they might have played out in the scenario and then share what I did
36:30
over identification that response.
36:32
I'm a complete fraud.
36:34
Everybody's gonna now know it.
36:35
I built this whole podcast around helping people heal from narcissistic
36:38
relationships, and I can't even edit my own audio properly.
36:40
All those people who trusted me, they shared their stories.
36:42
They're gonna feel betrayed when they realize I am not professional enough to
36:46
even check my own work before publishing.
36:48
This proves that I have no business doing this podcast.
36:50
It took 600 and.
36:52
something episodes.
36:53
But I finally showed everybody what an amateur I really am.
36:56
Those people who wrote in about the audio gaps probably told
36:58
everybody else not to listen.
36:59
All that work building credibility is absolutely ruined.
37:02
Maybe this is a sign I should quit and never do podcasts again.
37:05
And I don't want to be embarrassed like this.
37:08
That, that is a very real version of a response.
37:11
The avoidance response, whatever it's audio gaps.
37:14
Most people probably didn't even notice.
37:15
And those few people who complained, they're being nitpicky.
37:18
I mean, I'm doing this for free.
37:19
I'm putting out tons of content.
37:20
If they want perfect audio, they can go pay for premium podcasts.
37:23
Everybody makes mistakes.
37:25
It's not a big deal.
37:25
Can you believe that people wrote in okay, just, okay, I get it.
37:28
You're you pointed something out.
37:30
Not even going to check the audio because they're probably exaggerating anyway.
37:32
If people don't like it, how about they start their own
37:34
podcast and see how hard it is.
37:36
Okay, that one doesn't, that one doesn't feel very good.
37:39
And then the mindful response, which is the way I tried to handle this.
37:44
I am feeling really embarrassed right now about missing those editing gaps.
37:47
And that's understandable because I care a lot about providing quality
37:51
content for my listeners free or not.
37:53
Especially given the sensitive nature of what they share with me.
37:56
So these feelings of shame though, they're trying to creep in, but
37:59
I recognize that making a mistake does not make me an imposter.
38:02
I'm choosing to view this as an opportunity to demonstrate the very
38:04
principles I talk about, acknowledging mistakes, taking responsibility,
38:08
taking corrective action.
38:10
I really sincerely appreciate the listeners who brought this to my
38:12
attention because it shows they care enough about the podcast to speak up.
38:15
And I can feel anxious about the technical issues and replace the
38:19
file while still staying focused on solving the problem step by step.
38:23
One episode out of over 600 and how I handle this matters more
38:26
than the fact that it happened.
38:28
Because hopefully that response shows all three elements of
38:31
self compassion, self kindness.
38:32
I'm going to acknowledge my embarrassment without beating myself up.
38:35
I am noticing I want to beat myself up.
38:37
Then we have her, Kirsten Neff's concept of common humanity.
38:40
I'm recognizing the technical issues and mistakes.
38:43
Most likely happened to all content creators at some point and then
38:47
mindfulness, trying to stay present with the uncomfortable feelings
38:50
while doing everything I can to take practical steps to fix the situation.
38:54
So I did, I did fix the situation and you can find that now on the
38:59
waking up to narcissism podcast.
39:00
And I even added some bonus content in the front of that episode.
39:04
So if if you're listening, do me a favor, go listen to that episode.
39:07
I think the, there were a lot of downloads that happened
39:10
with that, the bad file first.
39:12
So self compassion doesn't mean avoiding responsibility.
39:16
It actually means taking responsibility, but maintaining a balanced kind
39:19
perspective towards yourself.
39:21
I want to wrap things up today with the wisdom of somebody that I think about
39:24
often, but I don't talk about as much on podcasts, but that's Victor Frankel.
39:28
And you may be familiar with the name.
39:30
He's also the author of a book called man's search for meaning.
39:33
And Frankel was an Austrian psychiatrist and he survived multiple.
39:37
And he survived multiple Nazi concentration camps, including
39:40
Auschwitz, between 1942 and 1945.
39:43
But during imprisonment, he lost his pregnant wife, his parents, his brother.
39:47
And in these, I think, the most unimaginable conditions, Frankel made
39:51
a very profound observation, that the prisoners who were more likely
39:54
to survive weren't necessarily the ones who were physically strongest,
39:58
but those who maintained a sense of meaning and a sense of purpose.
40:01
And through his experiences, he developed a form of therapy called Logotherapy.
40:04
And it's based on this premise that finding meaning in life is a
40:07
human's primary motivational force.
40:09
And he has this just incredible quote, where he says, Between stimulus
40:14
and response, there is a space.
40:16
In that space is our power to choose our response.
40:19
And in our response lies our growth and our freedom.
40:22
And I think what makes his insight about the space between stimulus
40:25
and response so powerful is that he developed this understanding in an
40:28
environment where he had virtually no control over his external circumstances.
40:31
But he discovered that even in the darkest moments, humans retain this
40:35
fundamental freedom to, to choose that response to what's happening to them.
40:39
And I know that it's not just that easy, because how do you build in
40:43
that space that he talks about?
40:45
For that response.
40:46
And this is why I love the concepts that Kristen have talked about with
40:49
mindfulness and why a huge part of acceptance and commitment therapy is
40:52
learning to be mindful to be present because here's what is fascinating about
40:56
mindfulness from a scientific perspective.
40:57
And this is my understanding that when we practice mindfulness, we're
41:01
actually rewiring our brains neural pathways because research shows
41:05
that regular mindfulness practice strengthens the area of the brain.
41:08
This prefrontal cortex.
41:09
Think of that as your brain's pause button while it reduces activity in the amygdala.
41:14
The brain's threat detection system, the place where the fight or flight
41:16
response occurs, and this means that you're literally building the neural
41:20
architecture that allows you to pause between that trigger of something
41:23
that happens, and then your response.
41:25
And I think what's even more interesting is that a mindfulness practice increases.
41:29
The density of gray matter in brain regions linked to learning, memory,
41:33
emotion, regulation, perspective taking.
41:35
So it's like you're building new mental muscles that help you step
41:38
back from automatic reactions.
41:40
So when you practice mindfulness, I recommend doing it on a
41:42
daily basis, even if you don't believe it's doing much for you.
41:46
But when you practice that every day, Mindfulness technique regularly.
41:50
You're not just hoping to catch the space between stimulus and response.
41:53
Oh my gosh, I hope I can do it.
41:54
You're physically constructing the mental machinery that then makes that possible.
41:57
So at a certain point, it just is, you are present, you pause.
42:02
You can think of it like every time you take a mindful moment, whether it's
42:05
focusing on your breathing, noticing your surroundings, simply observing
42:08
your thoughts without judgment, you're strengthening these neural pathways.
42:11
It's very similar to how a muscle gets stronger with repeated use,
42:15
because then over time, This practice makes it easier to access
42:18
that pause when you need it most.
42:20
It just is there.
42:21
When you are facing a trigger that you would typically launch into the
42:24
self criticism or the shame cycle, you are noticing, Oh, what's the
42:28
story my brain wants to tell me?
42:29
That that you're broken.
42:30
You're not human.
42:31
Okay, that'll chestnut.
42:33
Thank you, brain.
42:34
I think I'm okay.
42:36
It's like, without learning how to build in this pause, this, this mindfulness
42:39
practice, we're like a computer that just runs on autopilot, executing the
42:43
same old programs of self criticism that we've been running since childhood.
42:47
But when we practice mindfulness, we create that pause, that
42:49
space that Frankel talks about.
42:50
And in that space, that's where we can choose self compassion
42:53
instead of self judgment.
42:55
And we can remember we are human, that we're learning, and that this moment
42:58
is just one part of our larger story.
43:00
Because I think this whole concept.
43:02
It directly ties into this discussion of mindfulness and self compassion because
43:05
it reminds us that no matter how automatic our self critical responses might be or
43:09
how ingrained our patterns of shame might be, we can learn to develop that space.
43:15
that possibility to have a choice.
43:17
If Frankel can do this space for choice in a concentration camp, I
43:21
think I can certainly develop it as I am learning about my podcast while I'm
43:25
sitting in the comforts of my own home.
43:27
Victor Frankel's principles of meaning making, I think they beautifully
43:30
compliment self compassion because he observes that those who found
43:33
meaning in their suffering could endure it with greater resilience.
43:37
This connects to the three components that Kristin Neff
43:40
talks about of self compassion.
43:41
When we find meaning in our struggles, mindfulness, we're better able
43:45
to see them as part of a larger human experience, common humanity,
43:48
rather than as a personal failure.
43:50
For example, recognizing that our pain might help us develop empathy
43:53
for others now gives the pain purpose.
43:56
So now that growth, we grow through discomfort because it has a purpose.
44:00
Frankel emphasized that even in suffering, we can choose our attitude.
44:04
And I think this mirrors self compassion's element of self kindness.
44:07
We can choose to respond to our pain with understanding
44:11
rather than a harsh judgment.
44:12
He found that prisoners who could maintain their inner dignity, and
44:16
that was done by showing kindness to themselves and others, even in horrific
44:19
circumstances were often more resilient.
44:22
And I think maybe even more powerfully than that, Frankel
44:24
demonstrated that meaning comes not just from positive experiences,
44:27
but from how we handle adversity.
44:29
And I think similarly self com And sim similarly, That word, I
44:34
struggle with that every time.
44:36
Similarly, self compassion isn't about avoiding pain or
44:39
making everything positive.
44:40
It's about finding a way To hold our difficult experiences
44:43
with understanding and wisdom.
44:44
That is why mindfulness, learning how to be in this present moment, is
44:48
so critical, so crucial, because it creates that space where we can find
44:51
meaning in our experience, rather than just react to our experiences.
44:55
And it allows us to pause, and then to choose how we want to relate to our
44:58
pain, just as Frankl chose how to relate to his circumstances in these moments.
45:02
I think Viktor Frankl's work reminds us that self compassion is not
45:05
just about feeling better, but it's about finding deeper meaning in
45:08
our human experience, including our struggles and our imperfections.
45:12
And that deeper meaning helps us respond to ourselves with even greater
45:15
wisdom and kindness, even in, I think, the most challenging moments.
45:19
So if I can encourage a takeaway for today, what I
45:22
would love for you to remember.
45:23
You're not broken, you're human.
45:24
And being human means you're on a journey of constant growth and discovery.
45:27
What a joy.
45:29
Every time you pause and you offer yourself compassion instead of criticism,
45:32
you're not just being kind to yourself, you are rewiring patterns brain that
45:36
might have been in places for decades.
45:37
Decades, you're choosing a new way of relating to yourself.
45:41
That's more sustainable, more nurturing, and ultimately more effective than this
45:45
pursuit of perfection of self esteem.
45:48
Because remember, this is the very first time that you've been you in this moment
45:51
with this understanding right now.
45:53
And while the path of self compassion might feel pretty unfamiliar at first,
45:57
each small moment of kindness toward yourself is like planting a seed.
46:01
And over time, those seeds grow into a garden of resilience and wisdom
46:04
and genuine self acceptance because you're not just learning a new skill.
46:07
You are now starting to pioneer a new way of being, and it is one
46:11
that is full of compassion, and it is in each moment, in each time.
46:17
I cannot wait to hear your experiences.
46:20
Send me your questions, your examples.
46:22
Thanks for sticking with me this long.
46:24
I hope you have an amazing, wonderful week.
46:26
Taking us out per usual is the wonderful, the talented Aurora
46:28
Florence with her song, It's Wonderful, because I'm telling you, it can be.
46:33
We'll see you next week.
46:34
Thanks, everybody.