Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #280 | Dan Urquhart on Seasons, Leadership & Why You Can't Build Alone

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The Daily Dose #280 | Dan Urquhart on Seasons, Leadership & Why You Can't Build Alone · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:56) Good morning. Welcome to the good builder podcast. This gentleman needs no introduction because we've had him on a few times and he in my view was one of the best builders in Australia. And now he's gone on to form his own business in 1000 feet deep, which is all about supporting and helping the leadership and culture of teams in building businesses and beyond. He's done so much for the industry but He put up a post the other day around seasons that I absolutely loved because I kind of have this same philosophy and I didn't know that this gentleman did. And I read it and I was like, I call different periods of my life seasons and you go through them and you learn a lot of stuff. I'm going through a pretty deep season at the moment where I am probably... you know, it's probably a timely chat with Dan because I'm pretty fired up about a few things that are happening in the building industry. And I need to learn how to cope with it because one of the things that I just said to Dan before the pot is there's a copious amount of money spent in the building industry and not a lot of it actually gets to the builders to support them and help them. And I'm like, where did that $300 million go for apprentices? And then you get like 47 % of them complete. Why don't we give the other 150 million to people like Dan that can help businesses and builders understand what they can control in their businesses and build better businesses despite the environments that they operate in because you can't control that stuff. So anyway, that's my little ramp. We'll probably get into it a little bit more as we talk, but I am welcoming to the podcast a gentleman I think deserves 150 million to run his programs. Dan Urquhart from a thousand feet deep. How are you mate? Dan (02:27) Thank Hahaha Gone well, my bro. Gone really well, mate. Thanks. Aaron Ng (02:38) No, that's good, man. Yeah, sorry, mate. I got a little fired up before we started this podcast, because I went on a rant with a few things. But I'm so glad you're here because you always sent to me. And you completely correct the post the other day that you wrote, I really loved my it was around, you know, seasons and getting through seasons. And, and I go through a few I go through a few where I'm really positive on the industry. I'll be honest here. Dan (02:45) You Aaron Ng (03:01) I'm really positive. I'm like, yeah, yeah, let's go. Let's go. Let's look at all the positive stuff. And right now, unfortunately, man, I came back from Melbourne, I learned a few things. I'm looking at where the $33 billion of the government went. Uh, we're only about 887 homes were built from it, uh, went down to the builders. And I'm like, I'm in this negative season, man, like of getting a little more aggressive with the way I'm on talking on the podcast and even in our videos and social. And I don't want to be that. Dan (03:01) Yeah. Aaron Ng (03:30) as well. I want to be measured. I want to be controlled. I want to make sure that, you know, what I'm saying is not just a rant, but actually people are going to listen to it and go, he's got a point. He's not just being angry over an issue. There's a solution there. Well, mate, I guess from all of that, we're, you know, your philosophy on seasons and that sort of thing, where did that come from, Dan? Because we've known each other for a few years and I never knew you sort of thought like that. Dan (03:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, mate. Yeah. Well, I think, I think it's, it's really important, mate, first to understand the seasons we go through. So, you know, quickly, what do we mean by seasons? Well, you know, sometimes we go for really easy periods where, you know, in business, the sales are coming through the door, everyone seems to be getting on, you know, like, you know, the customers are all happy, you know, it's probably fairly rare, but you know, it does happen where there's easy seasons, we know it's builders. Some jobs are just easy, they just flow really well. And then there's other seasons and it's just like, everything's hard. Everything's a grind, everything's an issue. And sometimes it can be because, it might be a startup or in our own personal lives, mate, we have kids, that's always tough. That's a tough season having kids. And so, I've always thought of my life as seasons. What I haven't always done well though, is prepared well. Aaron Ng (04:34) There. Mm. Dan (04:43) for the next one to come and coped well with the one that I'm in. And so I feel like it is a good discussion as just to talk about probably those couple of things. How do we, know, cope well and make the best of the situation, the season we're in and how do we prepare for the next one? Because one thing's true about seasons, they come and go, whether they're good or bad. Aaron Ng (05:02) And you know what? That's what I love, Dan. That's why I gravitated to that sort of philosophy. And when I saw you speak about it, like, man, I like you even more. And I don't think I can have much more love for you. There's a lot, But like, it's like, it is, you got to remember that they, and that's why I probably used it in my life to go, it's just a season. Probably in the bad times. In the good times, you go, hope this season lasts. You don't probably call it a season, but you've got to remember that the good times... Dan (05:12) Yuck. Yeah, bro. Aaron Ng (05:28) Also, sometimes they're never gonna last everything's everything's temporary when they say happiness, happiness is a fleeting sort of feeling and things. So you've always got to be prepared. And that's what I'm also, you know, along with the philosophy of it's not here forever, that I took from you post and I think really cool, man. So we'll do how do you how do people sort of figure out when you flat out? Dan (05:36) Exactly, mate. Yeah. Aaron Ng (05:52) you know, running a building business and dealing with all this stuff or you're in a period like me or a season like me where you're going down rabbit holes, you shouldn't, and you just can't stop. How do you identify you're in a season? I probably have just talking to you actually this last five minutes, but how do you actually identify what season you're in and what you can sort of do to move past it or plan for the next? Dan (05:55) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good thought, mate. So sometimes, well, you know, it's like, you know, weather seasons and weather patterns, you know, if you're in business and leadership long enough, you know, like, you know, wow, this is just a grind. All right, we just got to see this through, you know, all guides were in a really good period at the moment, things seem to be going well and flying well, but you know, this mightn't last, let's get back to basics. So I think we intuitively know. Aaron Ng (06:30) Yeah. Yeah. Dan (06:41) the season that we're in a lot of times, what's probably not so intuitive is preparing for the next season. This, think, this is just a loose philosophy. I wouldn't say that, you know, this is something that our listeners are going to be able to take away and it's going to be earth shattering. I feel like, you know, we just, we kind of know, and you can get caught in the grind sometimes, which, so there's a couple, which is not helpful when you're just caught in the grind, you don't look up and you just, you know, there's seasons like that where, you know, you just got to work hard. You just got to buckle down. You just got to move through it. You know, Aaron Ng (06:50) Mm. Yeah. Nah. Yeah. Dan (07:13) So again, it's like the season you're in, you kind of know what you got to do. It's preparing for the season that's coming. That's where I think we really need to start to pay attention to. ⁓ And so what are we talking about there? So it's really important that, you know, COVID would be a really good example. know, COVID caught a lot of people off guard. Let's just talk specifically about the building industry. Aaron Ng (07:24) Yeah. Perfect example. Dan (07:39) And so we were at whatever was going on in the foundations of our business. COVID came, bang. And next thing you know, we were, and it's kind of goes back to this philosophy that we talk about as, which is if you don't have a foundation sooner enough, cracks are going to appear. And during COVID cracks started appearing now, not because we were horrible people or terrible builders, just because success has weight. And the success... Aaron Ng (07:44) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (08:05) the success of that time, which was builds in any normal time, more builds equals success. That's great, awesome. But it came with every other issue, trade, pro trade, limitations, ⁓ material supply issues, price increases, every single thing. And so what happens is it starts to expose where we are and how well we're prepared for it. Aaron Ng (08:19) Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Dan (08:31) And if you haven't prepared, and this is the thing with seasons, if you will, if you haven't kept an eye on the future, because this is essentially what leadership is, it's visionary. You know, so there's a tension with that. How do we stay vision focused? So future focus, preparing for what's to come, whilst also being faithful with the here and now. In other words, how do we not be frustrated with the season we're in? Aaron Ng (08:49) Yeah. Dan (08:53) but have enough discipline to be able to move through it and have our teams move through it and keep an eye on the future without sort of being that future focus that we're no good right now. And I found myself, mate, just recently like that. We're in a new startup, as you know, and it's been going well, thousand feet deep. We're helping people, which is our main goal, but it's a new business, mate. We're in the grind. But I could get that busy in the right here and now. Aaron Ng (09:00) Love it. Yeah. Yeah. But yes. Yeah, yeah, this is Dan (09:20) that I'm not setting up the systems and processes and keeping my eye on what's to come because this grind season, it'll shift and will I be ready? That's the question. Aaron Ng (09:27) Yeah. I loved it all, Dan. And I think you said it wasn't earth shattering. I think this is going to be earth shattering for people, as simple as it sounds. I think there's a lot of people out there. I'm going to take this as an example. And I know it's a far off example, but I know this or knew this woman and I still know her, but she went through a divorce. And this was about two years ago. And I remember saying to her, don't worry about it. It's just a season. And on that, that's as basic as it is. And I didn't want to downplay what she'd been through, but the next time I met her, she said to me, I'm over that season. And that's cool, Dan. Like, and I think a lot of people need to hear this right now. We're in a season. We're going into a season right now in construction. ⁓ mate, the war. Dan (10:00) Yeah, That is... That's right, the season's shifted. Absolutely, yeah. Aaron Ng (10:13) the infrastructure that needs to happen for the Olympics up here in Southeast Queensland, the infrastructure that needs to happen around Australia, the problems that we're having right now to meet the housing accord. Like this is one of the wildest seasons we've ever had. So like... Dan (10:15) Be ready. Aaron Ng (10:26) Knowing that Dan and I love how you said, how do you stay present enough, but future focused enough? Like, how are you helping leaders and businesses do that? Dan? Like, how do you do that? Because I find it completely hard. you know, you've calmed me down in the podcast that we've done on the five minute chat we've had beforehand, because you saw me come on. I've got my daughter crook. She's down the Gold Coast. I need to go pick her up. I'm looking at $33 billion and wondering where the hell it went. You know, and I'm just in this bar. Dan (10:51) Mm. Yep. Aaron Ng (10:52) And I need to move past it, mate, to get back onto what the good builder is about as well, and what was our core purpose. And you kind of mentioned that with foundations, but how do you do it, Dan (10:55) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we enjoyed it. Yeah, that's really good. Well, you also said something at the beginning, mate, and it's, just need to be able to influence what we can influence. A lot of times, there's a lot of external noise to our business, to our businesses, and it's not like it's not real, it's not like it doesn't affect us, but we're not in control of it. And we need to start to think, okay, what can I influence right now? Aaron Ng (11:12) Mm. Yeah. I love it. Dan (11:26) Okay. And what we want to do is we want to start with, okay, so why do we exist mission? Let's get back. You've said it yourself. Let's get back to what the good builder was about. And I would say to any builders out there, let's get, let's just know why not what you do. If all you are is what you do, what separates you from every other builder in town? You know, we need to know why we exist as an organization. ⁓ And so, you know, I'll give you an example of when we owned GJs, you know, it was like for us, was. Aaron Ng (11:47) Yeah. Yeah, go for it. Dan (11:54) it was we, for years, we didn't have a mission and what it meant was I was just like, just every other business just bobbing around the ocean, getting carried away by the, by the rip, you know, and the tired, and you just feel like you haven't really got a foundation, you know, you're, you're just a builder and there's nothing wrong with being a builder, but we didn't have an identity. I didn't know why we existed. Our mission gave us a, an identity and it gave us a foundation to work from. Aaron Ng (12:11) Yeah. Dan (12:20) Now our mission became experience quality, that everybody that comes into contact with with GJ Gardner Homes would experience quality. And that that touched everything we did. ⁓ That touched our customer care process, that touched our systems and processes, the way we trained our teams, the way we treated our trades, because it wasn't just the customer experience, it was everybody that came into contact. Now, why is that important? Because Aaron Ng (12:23) Yeah, wow. You did. Yeah. centers you. Dan (12:46) You know, regardless of the season we're in, we've only got one responsibility. Experience quality. Experience quality. You got to know why you exist in these seasons. And I love what you said, Az. We are coming. In case you are wondering where we are, we are entering a different season. This is COVID-like. Now, please don't hear me say doom and gloom. I'm not saying that, you know, hold on, it's going to be horrible. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is... Aaron Ng (12:51) I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (13:12) The season's coming. The question is, what's it going to demand of you? Now, what are some other things we can control? Really important as we need to know why we exist so that we can achieve that one goal. Now, if you've got a strong enough mission, that will affect everything you do. Because remember, everything's a byproduct beyond that. You know, the way we treat our customers, you know, experience quite the way we treat our teams, the way we develop our teams, the way we get them up for game day every single day. Aaron Ng (13:13) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (13:39) then the way that they treat everybody outside of our business. And then of course, all right, now obviously sales are important. They're no less important, they're more important than you've got. But sales are great, but this is the thing we've saved with COVID, just an example. Sales is great, success was awesome, but then we had to build them. Aaron Ng (13:55) Yeah, yeah, they Dan (13:56) And so, all right, let's look at our departments at the moment, moving into a different season. Are we ready? Are we ready for a downturn or are we ready for an uplift? We're not magic. We don't know what's coming, but are we ready? Are we ready for every eventuation? This is what a leader needs to be able to do. And this is why season's so important. A leader needs to be able to be present in the here and now, but they need to be able to see into the future and they need to be able to have their best. Aaron Ng (14:01) Yeah. Dan (14:21) guess if you will, or they need to be able to influence what's to come. And if we don't, if we don't do this as leaders, we get caught out. We get caught out and it's horrible, scary. Aaron Ng (14:24) Yeah. Yeah. Mate, very cool. Like the piece around having, you know, who you are, a bit of your why and the foundation will anchor you in any season that sounds like Dan. You know, if you've got that piece right, you know why you exist, why you do what you do. You're not what you do, as you said, but why you're doing it. Because then you start to make the right decisions, don't you? You're not moving with the season sometimes. You're actually staying solid as who you are and just Dan (14:59) That's it. Aaron Ng (15:00) almost letting the season pass, but doing your best to weather the season with, with like you said, experience quality. I saw you do it yourself. Like, I remember when you were a DJ's mate, we were, you know, we had, I remember talking to you and then reaching out to Nat to come on as, know, one of our head judges of a design thing on social media. Cause I was so impressed because I knew that every time someone touched, know, your, your DJ franchise, they experienced quality. from the people, from the build, from everything. And it didn't matter the season. That was really, you know, it's all starting to make sense to him. So, he wouldn't know it, but this is it. You anchored the business because it's what you're teaching now, I reckon, Dan, like you're teaching businesses how to weather seasons, mate. And like you said, we're going into a big one, but. Dan (15:33) We went through some tough seasons too, You know, and that, yeah, it anchored the business. Aaron Ng (15:49) Could you tell me, yeah, tell us a little bit about how you're working with businesses right now to do that. Because as you said, I think we're, we're going through it right now. Like, ⁓ you know, make, feel free to talk about your program and things that you're doing too, because I do think fundamentally, as you said, like a lot of us don't know what we're doing it. We just get out there and we do it. And we just kind of go through the task of build or come, we'll pick up the client. Why is it the right client? Are we taking on too much like. Dan (15:57) Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (16:17) How do you find all that out? Dan (16:19) Yeah, well, mate, unfortunately, you know, well, unfortunately, unfortunately, we find out the hard way, you know, and that's there's nothing wrong with that. That's life. And you don't know what you don't know. And so we need to be, you know, really serious here, right? We need to be, we need to, we need to be able to be forgiving towards yourself. We need to be able to be light hearted in life. And in other words, what am I saying? So Aaron Ng (16:26) Yeah. Dan (16:42) You're going to learn stuff the hard way. You're to make mistakes. That's okay. Everyone's making those. Everyone makes mistakes. And I don't mean, you know, like get on social media, you know, and they talk about mistakes and they talk about discipline. They talk about all these really hard edge things and you're meant to embrace it. Hey, look, no one likes to fail. No one likes to make mistakes, but it's going to happen. And that's okay. What do we learn out of it? You know, what do we, you know, what, what is it? How can, how can that make us better? Aaron Ng (16:45) Yeah. Yeah. Yay. Dan (17:09) Because this is the thought when you've got a really strong mission, it's not that the issues that you face are any less real. They just don't measure up to what you know you are, who you know you are and where you know you're going. You know what I mean? So it's like, this is the thing when I didn't have a really strong mission and a foundation and organisation, every problem I faced, even if it was a three felt like a 10 because I didn't, couldn't measure it up against anything. Aaron Ng (17:20) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Dan (17:33) And so a really strong mission, what it does is it gives you a backbone, it gives you a foundation, it gives you founding, grounding, and it helps you right size the issues you face. Because it's like, well, in comparison to where we're going, this is what we'll do to change what I've just faced. We're gonna go through stuff, we're gonna make mistakes, but because we're gonna experience quality, these are the changes I'm gonna make to make sure that never happens again. But other than that, if you don't have that, Aaron Ng (17:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (17:59) All that happens is just seeing the issues, the tensions, the mistakes. So we would say, okay, well, there's a ground zero, mission, vision, core values. Now here's another really, really big one. In a season what seemingly could look like lack, there's gonna be builders are gonna wanna pull back. The best of investors ramp it up. Aaron Ng (18:04) Yeah? Love it. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Dan (18:23) You need to ramp it up. Now I'm not saying go and spend millions of dollars on things that don't matter. Cause you've got to be wise. You've got to be business savvy. But we need to double down on those things that are going to help us weather whatever's to come. We need to get very clear around mission, vision, core values, who we are as an organization. We need to get very clear. Aaron Ng (18:24) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Dan (18:47) and very deliberate around team and culture development and the communication that we're having with our teams. You know, we had an annual theme during COVID and it was set the expectation. So what are we saying to our teams? Guys, things are changing every single day. We need to be the ones that are setting the expectation for our clients. Because if we're letting the news do it, Aaron Ng (18:49) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, love it. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (19:10) they're gonna be coming to us, asking us all sorts of questions full of fear. We need to be in front of our clients and our trades and our suppliers. We need to be setting the expectations around where we are as a business, what we need, what to expect customers. Unfortunately, build times have blown out. Why? Because we can't get trades. Nobody can get trades. The whole world can't get trades. Well, if you don't tell a client that, we can get bricks yesterday, but we can't get bricks today. Why? Because the... Aaron Ng (19:27) Yeah. Yeah. Dan (19:38) You know, they make them here locally that maybe that was a bad example. Let's say tiles, you know, tiles. Well, the boat stuck outside of their control. I mean, we couldn't get aluminium. You know, it was harder to get glass. And so if you're not setting the expectations, if you're not ramping up communication, but what we're getting at too, as is what we need to double down on what's really important during seasons of uncertainty. And I would say this, the foundations of that orbit leadership. Aaron Ng (19:42) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Dan (20:06) Team, culture, they're the things you can control. Your leadership, know, the way you communicate, how you set the expectation, empowering the outcome, powering your team, measuring your results, know where your business is up to, holding people accountable, making sure that we're all heading in the right direction. And then team, we're looking at skill set, mindset and character. Hand, head, heart, we're gonna make sure that our team... Aaron Ng (20:08) Yeah. Yep. And then all. Dan (20:29) As fearful as it is, as uncertain as things might be that our teams are turning up skillset, mindset, character every single day. And guess whose job that is to make sure that's happening? The leaders job. And then collectively, we need to work on culture. Leadership, leaders and the teams work on the culture together. What are we talking about? We're talking about capacity, the ability to be able to carry what's coming. Then we're looking at system and process, role and responsibility and cultural health. We're all responsible for that. Aaron Ng (20:36) Yeah. Little later. Yep. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Dan (20:56) Hey guys, Aaron Ng (20:56) Yeah. Dan (20:57) that's what we in business are responsible for. Everything else is a by-product. You think about it, mate. You've got leadership, team, culture, and what we just mentioned, set the expectation, empower the outcome, make sure that you're empowering those around you, measure the result, holding people accountable. Then you've got team, hand, head, heart, skillset, mindset, and character. Then you've got culture, capacity, system and process, role and responsibility, cultural health. Aaron Ng (21:02) Yeah. Yeah. Dan (21:22) Everything else is a byproduct of that. You get those things right, the finances will be more stable. It might be tough. I'm not saying that it's going to be a cream season, I'm not saying it's a summer season or a spring season where everything's great. We're moving into a different season, but you need to be able to influence the outcome. How do you influence it? You influence it through leadership, team and culture. What about reputation, It's a byproduct. What about consistency? That's a byproduct. Aaron Ng (21:25) Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (21:48) What about teamwork? By-product. What about unity through hard times? By-product. What about communication? By-product. Every single aspect of our organization that we chase after are a by-product of leadership, team, and culture. Aaron Ng (22:41) You completely correct Dan. Like I've got nothing else to say mate. Like I think if, if businesses have a great leader and they know all of that, you set yourself up for success no matter the season. And while, like he said, you might not make the money because of forces outside of your control or whatever, you'll get through it. I tell you what, everything that you've been, everything you've been saying mate has been really interesting for me coming back from my trip to Melbourne. And I briefly mentioned this just before, you know, we jumped on it. Dan (22:56) you'll get through it, where a lot of people don't. Aaron Ng (23:07) and recorded this thing. But I'll say to you, we met Anthony Blackshaw and I'd love to introduce him to you from Henley Property Group CEO. And I must say, he was the leader that I felt had all of that together. He was the only leader when I went to meet them that introduced me to their team. I was like, ooh, no. Dan (23:27) So what does that tell you as? It tells you what's important. Aaron Ng (23:31) and bang straight away. I was like, Ooh, that's cool. And then the first thing he did is he was like, can I take you for a tour and show you what we what we do? He took me for a tour. It wasn't all about him. He's like, this is a great team down here. This is our display center. Mind you best display center in Australia. God damn, man. It's good anyone who hadn't been there, you got to go there. But and he took me around his team, met his team, and then he talked about himself. Dan (23:35) Yes. Aaron Ng (23:56) The other thing that he did, and I think this was around COVID and this was a really interesting move. And I think, or maybe it wasn't around COVID. I could be wrong. I hope, I know Anthony listens to this. So I'm sorry, mate, if I'm wrong, but one thing that he did do was he put his office right before you walk into every other office to see any other staff. And his office is, excuse this Anthony again. but it was the most least impressive office I've ever been in for a CEO too. But he sees everyone go through. so over COVID, everyone saw him there, talk to him. He was talking to people, was going by, giving that, you know, confirmation about where they're going, very clear about what they're about to do and what they're being doing and a very successful company. And I talked to him about what's upcoming and he kind of was like, Dan (24:21) Yeah, well, Yeah. Yes, yes. Aaron Ng (24:45) Like you said, he had anchors in the, in the sea man, but they were, he was anchored down. He's like, this is what we're doing. And I was like, and you are going to do it. You can see it. They've already done the best job of the current situation. I think in terms of building, terms of communication to customers and showing that experience quality, I'm not saying that's their anchor, but what they do represent is a great leadership and a very vision forward. Dan (24:51) Yeah, man. Yes. Aaron Ng (25:10) leader who will do nothing but to get toward that vision and bring everyone along. that do agree with him. And of course, very, you know, supported and, and gets conversations from various people in his team. It's not his own vision. I'm, you know, I use the leader, but very interesting how you said it, Dan, because the other ones that I spoke to, I'm, I'm not saying all of them. So please, anyone who's listening to this, this is not pointed, might not be pointed that you could be pointed at you too. Dan (25:26) All bought product guys. Yeah. Aaron Ng (25:38) But, you know, other ones I went in there and I was just like, this is just chaos. Like, what the hell? They're trying to just scramble through this thing. This must be a headache. I can see why sometimes I go to these builders and I see the salesperson or the operations person and I say, see the next builder. Cause they quit and they go over there and I think the chaos is less. ⁓ Very interesting, Dan. Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant, but like what you said, he talked about leadership, team, culture. Dan (25:43) Yes, Yeah, yeah. Bull look night. Yes, Aaron Ng (26:05) leadership team culture. And it was almost how I was introduced in a way, kind of thing. Here's a few of the leaders, here's the team, this is what we're about, this is what I do. Dan (26:11) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man, so, so important because, you know, the building industry is a one. Aaron Ng (26:19) I'm crazy. I said in the, I put up a post and I said, I'd want to work for it. Like I was like sitting there going, Oh, I never wanted a job again. But if I ever went to a build, I'd work for you, mate. Like I know what I'm doing and I know where we're going and I'll be on board and let's go. Like, um, and Dan (26:24) Yeah, I got it. This is the end. So good, mate. Well, let's talk to the people as that. Like, you know what? I know that and I want that, but I just can't even put my head up. Like I'm just stuck in the grind, you know? And so, you know, you've heard that old saying, like, when's the best, when's the best time to plant a tree? Well, 20 years ago. When's the next best time? Right now. Aaron Ng (26:38) Mm. What is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When's the next? It's like buying a home too. Same thing, mate. It's just going that way. Like you need to keep up. Dan (27:03) Well, that's it. It's like, okay, well, let's not remember. This is what we're trying to navigate with Seasons. It's being present in the here and now whilst being aware of the future, being future focused. You can't have one without the other. have to be able to manage both. When's the best time to do something? Well, probably three years ago, maybe 12 months ago. When's the second best time? Right now. And this is what I said at beginning as, which is like, Aaron Ng (27:08) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (27:27) What a lot of people will do is they'll just double down on workload during hard seasons. They'll pull back, they'll squirrel their resource. I would say that now's the time where we actually need to be investing. We need to be investing in leadership team culture. So for instance, we always found that hard times for our business were the times where, will I do a display home this year? And the answer is, yeah, I will. Aaron Ng (27:31) Yeah, that's me bro. You know me. Yeah. Dan (27:52) because the season will change and that seed needs to be in the ground. I need people to be coming in because, know, I don't know if I can really put that extra salesperson on at the moment. For us, you know, it was like, yes, absolutely, let's do it. Now's the time to do it. When's the best time to start training, developing your team and getting clear on your communication, mission, vision, core values? Well, if it's not already done now, this is a problem we make, Aaron Ng (27:54) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan (28:17) The problem we make is not that seasons come and go, that seasons are hard and seasons are easy. The problem is that we don't understand what the season is calling on us. And I can tell you right now, whatever's to come, the season's calling us to prepare. Aaron Ng (28:26) Yeah. Dan (28:32) for the weight of success. We're always as leaders asked to lay the foundations of success within our organizations so that we can carry it. And what is success? Success has been able to weather the lean times and to be able to carry the good times. There is no such thing as one season. We're going to have good times and bad times. Maybe you live in Melbourne, you get four seasons in one day. That feels like business sometimes. It's great. Aaron Ng (28:33) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just there. Yeah, it was. Dan (29:00) terrible, it's horrible, I'm out, I'm in, you know, but beyond all of that, the idea Aaron Ng (29:00) Yeah, yeah, I think that's why I got crook. Yeah. Dan (29:05) that we're talking about is that we'll go through periods where it's easy and periods where it's not. Fair enough. Let's just keep present in the moment. Let's focused on the future. But what do we got to do? We've got to make sure that those business fundamentals are in place. And I'm telling you the business fundamentals, everything else is a byproduct of leadership team and culture. But also too, when you when you're ready, mate, Aaron Ng (29:11) Yeah. Yeah Yeah. It is. It is. Dan (29:28) I want to also talk to you about how personally we as leaders, beyond our business, can navigate seasons, tough seasons, hard seasons. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (29:31) Yeah. Yeah, no, we should do it then. Well, mate, let's do part two of this part and let's let's talk about that, Dan. And I'd love to talk to you about it personally anyway, mate. I think the other thing that I've I've picked up over my journey of the good builder the past 18 months, talking to you, looking around at people like Anthony Blackshore and some other great leaders that I really respect, Phil Barrett, Tony Gold, all these guys, which I think like I look at it all right. And I'm like, Dan (29:44) Mmm. Aaron Ng (30:02) Okay. How did you how did you deliver such a good business? Everyone's got to know their thing. So I thought, okay, so I started, you know, talking to builder coaches and things like that. I talked to sales coaches, I talked to builder coaches that teach financial admin and all this sort of thing. And I'm going, that's, that's the, that's the key. That's the key. Anyway, then I'm talking to all these builders coming to the studio, this will be about the 300th episode. So I've talked to a lot, and then most of them don't come on. So I talked to a lot. And they go. I've been to this coach, I've been to that coach, I've been to this coach, I've been to that coach. And I'm like, you've been through everyone we've interviewed and you're still trying to find the secret. Then I see, you know, as I was saying, meet people like Anthony Blackshore and businesses that are running really well. And the common factor in it all is they've laid the right foundations. All of the other shit. All of the other shit isn't the secret to success. Just because you can do a cashflow spreadsheet, isn't the secret to success. You need to know when to do it, what to look for, what kind of business you are and what that means for your team, not just get the calculation at the end of the thing, which is a lot of what these business coaches are teaching. And so anyway, in my brain, and this is why, you know, we'll continue to have you back on Dan and you support us. support you to the hilt, man. But like fundamentally, The first thing you should do is make sure you have the foundations of leadership, right? Because everything else falls into place in my mind. Once you have that, all those other issues that people go to build a coaches forum, not having a shot at them, but from what I can see, that is just a subset of not knowing who you are. For example, I saw a marketing agency run a workshop. It cost $9,000 for two days to go to this workshop. And I know people that went to it. And you know the first thing they told him, Dan, and the only thing that you really get out of it because everything else is fricking easy. Who are you and what's your point of difference? Dan (31:48) Yeah, there you go. Aaron Ng (31:49) I'm just like, my God, like you shouldn't be waiting till you've got a marketing problem dude, that you should be doing it way in the beginning. And in the end, you wouldn't have a marketing problem if you did the leadership foundational stuff, knew your why, knew your mission, knew your vision, knew your core values. You wouldn't have a marketing issue because you'd be communicating that to the client and displaying it through the way you build in your leadership. Like you did. Like I never touched you at GJs with marketing, Dan. I had other franchisees screaming out to me. I was screaming out to you guys to participate in our national marketing. So I knew that we'd be in good hands and that you'd make us look good. Like it was, you know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's very interesting for me on this journey of the good builder, because I had a podcast this week and sorry, I'm going on a rant. And, I said to the guy, I actually want to put together, I want to, and I want you to be part of this and I'm going to do it. I'm going to. Dan (32:27) Yeah. No, I'm not. Aaron Ng (32:42) I'll put the call out on this other podcast, but I'll put it on this one too. So if you listen to the Toby loft one, or you listen to the damn one, you'll hear it. I want a builder that we will pay for all the systems. We will pay for everything. We want to give them, we want to make them a walking case study and what makes a good builder. And we're to start with leadership with 1000 feet deep. Dan (32:58) Well, how's this? Well, that's all you. Aaron Ng (33:02) I want them to do a leadership course. I want them to implement some of the systems and processes that we advise will support the good builder because we've vetted a lot of stuff. And I would love to see the improvement in their business and just try to crack through the shit that's out there of money and people were spending like, know, I've got a real. being my bonnet with marketing agencies and what they cost because I ran a really low cost one and did a great job. And you look around these people ripping them off and I'm like, I'll show you how to do the marketing. You'll do it yourself and you'll get as much as you need and you don't have to worry about any bills from an agency that doesn't know your business. Same sort of thing with you, Dan. I'm like. You go to all these builder coaches, you're trying to fix the problems, the kinks in the hose at a stage, which is down the track of where the problem actually is, which is leadership. You know what I mean, Dan? Like, it's like the $33 billion I'm talking about at the moment. And now I'm going on another rant. I'm gonna shut up real soon. But like, I'm like, you know, the $33 billion, Dan, you can, you can go, Oh, oh, oh, I won't say the association's name, but oh, they're not spending the money properly. No. Dan (33:50) Yeah. You Aaron Ng (34:06) Let's not let the money get to them. Let's disperse that $33 billion property right from the beginning. And we don't have those kinks down the road. Same sort of thing with a building business. It's like, you don't need a builder coach here. You need to lay your foundations here with good leadership, know who you are, how you're going to drive the culture in your team, what your team's going to do, what positions everyone play, you're the coach. Bam. You won't have to spend money down the track for a builder coach that's going to cost you 12 grand, give you nothing and do some chat GPT spreadsheets and, you know, put up some fucking Claude prompts and think they know shit. And most of them have gone broke by the way. Anyway, that's my rant Dan. That is where I think it's at mate. Like I really wanna do it because I think, know, there's no educational pathway. I'm not saying the good builder is, but. I think what we can do is a living case study and show the proofs in the pudding and do it the way that's no risk to a builder, just to really help their business of a proactive one that wants to go for it. And we want to protect the industry. And if that becomes a living case study and we go, oh, okay, well, maybe the good builder Academy starts. And you jump into the Academy. We're not going to charge you or whatever. Like we'll do some sort of thing, but you know, Dan, you go into the Dan module, bang, bang, bang. You get a good leadership. Boom. You go into the next one. That is a, that's a, anyway, maybe I'm going on right now, but that's a bit of a vision for me, and I want to give them a good pathway to success. And I think you start as the step number one and you watch the problems down the track. We won't be having this builder who sets himself up or herself up properly down the track going, I need a builder coach. I bet you. Dan (35:38) Hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's good thinking, mate. I mean, that's, that's vision 101. Isn't it what you're doing there? You know, and you're trying to solve a problem, you know, and so one thing I'd say to all of that too, though, is one illusion that we want to dispel, maybe that's where we can go now for a bit. ⁓ as is that one illusion we want to dispel is that, that we're called to be good at everything because we're absolutely not, you know, in this new business. Aaron Ng (35:44) I'm doing it, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Dan (36:02) You know, why I've been thinking about seasons a lot more lately as is because the season that I'm in, actually, I'm under tension again with a lot of the same issues I faced early days in my last business. And this is why we can help each other collectively, ⁓ you know, and why seeking really good professional help is so important because ⁓ people have been there before us. Aaron Ng (36:13) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Dan (36:28) and solve the problems that we haven't solved yet. That'd be one thing. And some people are really good, some stuff. You're an amazing marketer as well as other skillsets that you have. Whereas I'm hopeless, bro. Like honestly, mate, I don't even look at Facebook. And so I need help in that area. And so what I'm finding though is it's that. So it's professional services around me. I've got Kirby helping us from, you know, Aaron Ng (36:39) Don't have any. Hmm Yeah. Yeah. Dan (36:54) from Bill Mentor, he's been helping us with just some sales stuff. You've helped us with some marketing. We're doing this together. So look, I'm trying to pull people into my world, my orbit, which is what we're getting back to, that investment thought. Now, we're a startup, can we afford it? You'd feel like squirrel in your money way, but you've got to invest. You've got to be able to plant that tree today that can bear fruit for you tomorrow. So it's being present in the moment. Aaron Ng (36:55) Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (37:21) whilst knowing what you need for the future. You've got to invest now for the future. You know, you've got to buckle down and double down on leadership team and culture right now. You know, but here's the thought. We need to, in this season that we're in, good batter in between. We just need to recognise what are we good at? Aaron Ng (37:26) 100 % Mm. Yeah. Dan (37:41) What do we need to outsource? What can the team do? Well, you might say it this way. What am I good at, leader? What's the team going to cover? And then what do we need to outsource? And maybe you don't need to outsource much. Back in our building business, we had awesome girl work for us. And she said she worked for the company on and off at times. She had bulbs, all that kind of stuff. Aaron Ng (37:45) Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Dan (38:05) And she did various roles. And then when we took the business on, she started working a little bit in marketing and she, she said to Natty, you know what, I don't really want to do marketing. And Nat and her started working together and that gave us some frameworks and some, you know, and developing her in that area. Not that we know, knew a heap about it, but you know what? She became an awesome marketer to the degree that when she left our organization, she started her own. Aaron Ng (38:26) Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Dan (38:31) a marketing company that helped guys to be able to pull that together, social media and stuff. So this is the thought, you know, when we start to look at our leadership, look at our team, look at our culture, the idea is, is that we develop from within and that we start to build what it is that our organization needs. But where that's not a reality right now, being faithful in the now, looking into the future, Aaron Ng (38:34) So freaking cool. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Dan (38:57) We've needed to outsource. I've needed to get some people in to be able to help me get my head around some stuff. know, we're in, what would you call it? I'd say we're in a winter season. You know, where it's like, well, it's not all flowing in the door. You know, it's not, not everything's going, crackingly, you know, we're in the grind, you know, things are, hard because we're setting things up and we're just being honest about where things are up. So what have I got to do? I've got to, I've got to, I've got to be focused on the, on the now. Aaron Ng (38:59) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Dan (39:24) I'm to be faithful with the now, but I've got to be investing for the future. Now, just like any business says risk, you've to be wise with that. But here's the thing, if you don't do it, when the next season turns, when the future comes, you won't be ready. It doesn't, it's not because they're bad people, not because they're bad business owners, not because they're bad leaders. It's just knowing right now in the season you're in, let's say it this way as if you don't mind. Aaron Ng (39:28) Yeah. Yeah, I reckon it happens all the time, Dan. I reckon that's why a lot of us operate. ⁓ No, no. Yeah. Dan (39:52) And I mean this professionally and personally, and I'd love for listeners to, wherever you are, just maybe stop for five minutes. What we wanna ask is, what do we need to drop off? What do we need to take up? And what do we need to move on from? Aaron Ng (39:55) Yeah Yeah. Dan (40:06) Let's think about that in context of everything we've spoken about, leadership, team culture, all the aspects of seasons and things that are gonna come against us. Let's never think pass and fail. Let's never think I'm good at this, I'm crap at that. Let's just know our strengths, know what the team needs to deliver and then let's outsource if that's what's required. But we do need to do this. We do need to go, what do I need to drop off? I was working with... Aaron Ng (40:16) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (40:31) some of our clients just recently and asked this question. You had one client who said negativity, know, mate, I just been under the pump, you know, we've owned our business for X amount of years. It was tough from the moment that we put our foot in the door. And I found that I'm just gotten negative. I need to drop that off. I was speaking to another client of ours and they said, procrastination. You know, Aaron Ng (40:35) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (40:55) I've got a good business business. I've had a good business. I'll have a good business in 10 years, but I've procrastinated on, I actually, if I'm honest, I want to take it from good to great. And if I'm going to take it from good to great, I'm going have to drop off procrastinism. So he's been present in the moment. He's been future focused. What do we got to drop off? Okay. Next thought, bro. What are we going to take up? know, and so, you know, and so, you know, for one of my clients, was, Aaron Ng (41:04) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, well, yeah. Dan (41:22) I'm going to be positive in the negative. Whatever I face, I'm going to take up a positive mindset around this stuff. What have I got to take up? Another guy I was talking to, was like my mental and physical health. I've let it stuff up. I've been in the grind. I've put my head down. I can't do it anymore. And if I'm honest, I probably, I would say that to me at the moment. I need to take that up. Need to take it up. Aaron Ng (41:25) Love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. powerful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You always look good Dan though, you always look fit mate. Dan (41:47) physical exercise again, know, whatever. Okay. And then here's maybe the most important. What do we need to move on from? What do we need to drop off? What do we need to take up? What do we need to move on from? Now, what do I mean here as, now, this is where I might get a little bit deep and personal. ⁓ We go through stuff. Aaron Ng (41:52) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, go for it, man. Dan (42:13) that scars us, that hurts us. We need to call it, we need to own it, we need to name it, we need to deal with it, we need to heal from it so that we don't carry that stuff into the next season. And can I just be honest with you, mate? I feel like, you know, we did have a successful business, but it didn't come without a cost, it didn't come without a toll. And at times I feel like I've moved into the next season without dealing with the last. Aaron Ng (42:14) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (42:37) with the baggage from the last season. Now I'm not talking, we're very blessed, we've had an amazing life, we've got an amazing life, got beautiful family. I'm not talking, people go through horrific stuff. And of course I mean that. But I also just mean, season of time where you did everything on your own, for instance, and you looked around, you could never find anybody to support and help you. And now you've got a good team, but you're stuck in the grind like you don't have a good team. Aaron Ng (42:37) Yeah. Yeah, well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Dan (43:03) Mate, you need to be able to move on from that. You need to be able to heal and go, you know what? I haven't been able to trust my team in the future, but I'm going to trust them right now. I'm going to drop off trying to do everything myself. I'm going to take up leadership and team and culture development. And I'm to move on from thinking that I've got to fix every problem. Because that's a car, mate. know, for other people, it can be a season of lack where it didn't matter what you did. You just couldn't get ahead. And now you see that the Aaron Ng (43:10) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah. Dan (43:29) You you see the light at the end of the tunnel and yet you're living in fear and you're not allowing yourself to invest because you're scared that you won't, that the gravy train will stop and you'll be back to square one. Hey, you you need to drop the fear off. You need to pick up that positivity, that thought that, you know what? I'm going to do these things as a byproduct and I'm going to plant this now so that I can sow this and I can reap this in the future. Aaron Ng (43:33) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Dan (43:56) And I need to deal with that fear. And that was a big one for me too, mate. Dealing with fear is a massive thing. So anyway, quickly, quickly, what do we need to drop off? What do we need to take up? And what do we need to move on from? What do we need to draw a line in the sand and say, you know what, that was bloody tough. But it's not going to define who we are as an organization. It's not going to define me as a person. It's not going to define me as a leader. I'm going to draw a line in the sand. I'm going to heal and I'm going to move on. Aaron Ng (43:58) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you know what? No, sorry. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Blah, blah. You know what, Dan, but I find the thing is, and I reckon this would resonate with everybody is asking those hard questions of yourself is very hard to do. It's very hard to do, Dan. Like, and who does that? Who really does that? I reckon there's some exceptional people that do, but I don't think 99.9 % of the population do that. They want to hold themselves a little bit accountable day to day and things like that. Dan (44:34) It is hard to do. Can I tell you what I reckon the answer to that is as? Leadership was never ever meant to be done alone. Aaron Ng (44:50) Go for it. No, and this is it, Dan. This is it. This is where I'm getting that right. Because I've gone through the same thing and you know the person that I am outside as a good builder and everything. I'm the same sort of person, but like my whole life has been pretty doing a lot of stuff by myself, you know, and just surviving. So I have this mentality, honestly, and this is going to be pretty open with everyone out there, but I have this mentality that I can just do what I want in a way and I'll just do it myself and I'll be okay. And that's not cool, man. Like it can get you to some dark places. It gets me to dark places. You know that, Dan, like you brought me out of dark places early on with the good builder. I remember the text message, you're a unifier. That changed my whole perspective on everything. I love the industry, but I was doing so much and butting my head against the wall. got down. I told you, Dan, we're down to where $263 from a quarter million bucks in the Fuck man. Like that's a dark place. And then no one's wanting to help. No supply. All suppliers wanted to jump on the good builder podcast and do it for free. And they would take everything they could from me. But They weren't given anything back. And so I was in a deep dark place. Remember that Dan? And, ⁓ and, and I'm just being real honest here. And so the good builder wouldn't be around without people like you that have pulled me out of those dark places and gone, remember the leader that you are and why you do it. What is your, why? And you questioned me and I started your course. I haven't finished it. I know it's been going forever, Dan, and I will one day, but like even the beginning of that course, I questioned myself. was a lot to question. Dan (46:03) I might ought to remember it, ought to remember it. So good night. Aaron Ng (46:25) and then understand about myself. And I'm not just plugging your course. I think that it's just a process we all need to go through and why I love what you do. I think, and if you don't have a roadmap to get there, you're not gonna get there. You're just not gonna get there, mate. Like, you know. Dan (46:32) It is. We know to heal. Well, it's, the thing is, that it's more, it's a grind, you know, and I'll put my hand up at the moment. Like I'm going through a process right now and this is it's important to me. Where I'm having to deal with some stuff, having to call some stuff within me, you know, and this is not trying to be, you know, fluffy here and, and we were, what I'm saying is that whether we like it or not. Aaron Ng (46:43) It Bye. Yeah, I Mm. Dan (47:05) Well, they say this as, even if people just believe this aspect, 80 % of success, this is scientifically proven, I actually think it's a low percentage, I think it's more, but they would say that 80 % of success comes down to the way you think. Aaron Ng (47:18) Yeah, yeah. Dan (47:19) And our experiences shape the way we think. Our emotions shape it. Now we can be rough and tumble, that's all good. Us fellas and builders especially, we don't need, you know, cuddle every day. We've learned how to just knuckle down and rip in. But see, this is the thought, is that that's not what moves the needle. Working hard doesn't move the needle. Not when you're a leader, you know, like... Aaron Ng (47:22) Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah. Nah. Nah. Dan (47:43) I'm not saying it doesn't have a place, but if all you do is work hard, you're going to fall into this trap that you always have more to do than time to do it. Because a lot of leadership is sowing right now for the future in areas of our business that aren't related to workload. So team and culture development, looks like that's an investment of time. know, communication, that's an investment, investing in yourself, you know. Aaron Ng (47:48) Yeah. I am Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Dan (48:10) Investing in system and process, role and responsibility. You there's a lot that happens in business and leadership that's future. You plan it now and it looks like nothing's kind of come of it. And then, you know, like one of the big things that happened with us in our business during COVID is that, and this is no boast, but we weathered that storm. We lost a lot of money, but we were profitable. We lost a lot of money because that's just what happened in COVID, course. Aaron Ng (48:13) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well. Mm. Mm. Dan (48:38) you sign a contract and then price rises going up and you can't pull it back. But we're still profitable. I'm not saying that we didn't have any team tensions and issues because we certainly did like everybody, but we kept the team together. We built more homes than we ever did before. Our customer care report stayed at over 95 % customer satisfaction. So all the metrics of by-product were intact. Aaron Ng (48:40) Oof. ⁓ I shouldn't laugh, but yeah, it is. It's just what it is. Yeah. Dan (49:03) because of the work that we'd done in the past. If we'd started to scramble and do that work during COVID, it would have just been another thing to do and we wouldn't have had the time or the emotional energy to do it. Guys, leadership is about being present and focused on the now and investing in the future, being insightful on what's to come. And when's the best time to plant a tree? Aaron Ng (49:06) Yeah, that's it. Nah. Yeah. Dan (49:29) 20 years ago, when's the next best time? Right now. It's knowing what is gonna stabilize your business and give you a foundation right now. Leadership, team and culture. Now we've talked about that, let's put that aside. What about you personally? What about you the leader? Hey, we need to ask ourselves three questions. What do we need to drop off? What do we need to take up? And what do we need to move on from? What do we need to heal from? Because even you as, and I can speak to you about this, you're a really honest fellow, mate. Aaron Ng (49:32) Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey. Dan (49:57) And I'll tell you that I'm going through it right now myself. The problem is when we don't heal and deal with stuff, we carry it into the next season. It's like putting a ball and chain around your leg or carrying this massive big weight around your shoulders. And we need to, we need to, even if it's asking this question, Hey, what, what just happened? What did we go for? And, and asking yourself, okay, Aaron Ng (49:59) Yeah, yeah. my, I've been counting up my whole life. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dan (50:20) based on that last season, everything I went through, what do need to drop off? What do I need to take up? And what do need to move on a deal with? You know what, you do that fairly regularly and it might not be much, but if you don't ask yourself those questions fairly regularly, every six months or so, every three, six months, definitely when there's big changes coming, like we're just about to go through, you're gonna struggle. And it does, mate. Aaron Ng (50:29) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it affects you in different ways, Dan, which is the interesting bit. before we got on this pod, you saw how revved up I am about certain injustices that I feel are happening, right? You know, that's a result of what I felt were injustices in my life. Dan (50:51) Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (50:56) And so I, I just go, you saw the, anyone who saw the videos in Melbourne, I'm going to the gym, going for 300 million, get wasted. And that whole thing fueled my gym session. I probably haven't lifted heavy in my life because I was pissed off about how they're spending money. And then I'm going down this route. And then the other day I got a call from someone that I really value and they're like, you seem really uptight me. Like where's the positivity and the good builder? Like you're just hammering people, hammered that marketing agency, you're hammering the government on this stuff. Like where was the solution stuff? And I'm just so caught up in this thing that I haven't dealt with, like you said, from past seasons of injustices that I felt, but you carry on and it affects your business decisions, affects your personal decisions, affects the way you talk to your wife sometimes. It affects a whole bunch of stuff bigger than what you think it does. So I love that you put that. And I think that's what I'm saying, Dan, like you've, you've got to set the foundation right. And I think if you're going to get into business, if you're going to get into life, you got to start by doing something like what you do, Dan, like I really do. It's, it's the, it's, it's the wire behind why you do everything and how you're to act. And like you said, how are you going to tackle the future? You know, that's it. Yeah. Dan (51:55) Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you a personal example of for me right now. Like we've sold our business, we've set this new business, we were gone now a couple of years, if you will. We've been gone for a couple of years, but we sort of ramped it up after we sold the business of course. And we've had a lot going on, we're doing a fair bit. This is what I'm finding. My capacity to carry stuff is not as great as it has been. So in the past where I've been able to carry and push and just keep going and just find a way, it's not there at the moment. And I'm asking myself, what the hell's going on there? And so I'm bit being a bit reflective and I'm like, well, I transitioned very quickly from one season to the next and I don't think I asked myself. Aaron Ng (52:26) Okay. So there. Yeah, I feel you actually. Dan (52:49) What I drop off? What do I take up? What I move on from? I don't think there's some stuff I haven't moved on from. And I've got to, I've got to find out what that is, but I can tell you another thing. I don't think this next season, I'm meant to carry all of this stuff. You know, I'm doing this, this, this, and this, you know what I feel like I've really got to refine what it is that I do, you know, and in this new business, you know, I work on content. I work on communication and. Aaron Ng (52:57) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (53:13) You know what? That's probably it. You know, that's probably it because, you know, we've got a team here that can carry the rest of it. You know, I'm not heavy into business like I was, you know, in my previous building business. This one for me is I'm kind of outside of that. And I've got some unique things that I bring this organization. I'm not meant to do it all. And, know, when I started coming in, I'm trying to do it all. I'm trying to carry it all myself. And, and it started to, I'm like, Aaron Ng (53:14) Well, running the entire workshops and things like that too, Dan. Yeah, it's a lot, mate. Yeah. Dan (53:42) Damn, isn't, I'm not, know, something's not right here. Like I should be able to operate at this level. This should be working. This should be, and you know what I'm finding as is that, no, no, I need to delegate. My wife has been absolutely critical in this season. And it's funny because what I'm lacking right now, my wife is picking up and wants to do it and is awesome at it. And yet there's scars within me that goes, no, no, let me do it. I want to do it. Aaron Ng (53:46) Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah Very good. Yeah, sorry mate, this is weird. Yeah, Dan (54:09) And it's like, this Aaron Ng (54:09) yeah, I should be doing it. Dan (54:10) season is saying to me, well, mate, okay, go for it. But it's not, I can't. And I don't know why, but I'm gonna accept it. And I'm gonna look and I'm gonna go, all right, okay then, what do I need to drop off? What do I need to take up? And what do I need to heal from? Because all the other seasons that we've been in have just been ripping, you know, we've... Aaron Ng (54:14) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (54:35) Definitely investing in team culture, definitely investing in business, definitely in business and all that stuff. But I don't think I took time to breathe, time to chill out, time to not be about what I do, rather just who I am. And this season, it's caught up a little bit with me. I'm gonna go through this process myself. I'm going through it. Aaron Ng (54:40) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think you did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, dude. Dan (54:58) And I believe what will come out the back end is a work-life balance and a pressure that's not mine to carry. And if I don't deal with it as, it'll affect my future, absolutely. And it'll affect this business. Aaron Ng (55:05) Yeah, nah, that's cool, Dad. Yeah, but but that's what you know, Dan. That's what you know. Many people don't know. And that I've learned from you, Dan. And I love how you said that was so raw, mate. I'm going through the same thing. It's really funny. Not funny, probably predictable for me. You know me. I think you're a wonderful bloke and I have the most respect for you, Dan. And it's really cool not cool to hear but like I don't I never thought you went through those seasons so I'm just like now Dan's always controlled and why don't like I call you personally Dan don't I? We had a show last week and I'm like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then sometimes you get me and I'm like I'm cool Dan like things are going good Dan like yeah it's all right but yeah yeah yeah Dan (55:32) We all do, mate. And that's why I want to talk about it. Yeah. ⁓ But mate, we all go through it as, and this is the thing, you know, it's part of what I haven't liked about this aspect of business is that you get on social media and you're obviously talking to people about things that help them. But hey, look, we're all on a journey. know, what they say about, you know, the people that are ahead of you, they're only a couple of steps ahead and only in one or two areas. You know, it's like, no, no, we're all going through stuff, all of us. Aaron Ng (55:54) I know. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dan (56:12) We're all in the same Aaron Ng (56:12) Yeah. Dan (56:13) boat. We're all needing to develop ourselves. We're all needing to heal from stuff. We're all needing to drop certain stuff off, pick certain stuff up and be able to move on from other things. No one's better than anybody else. We might have different skill sets, different capabilities, but mate, we're all human. know, social media, it kind of set up. It's like drink more water, get up earlier, you know, do more pushups, eat better food, be better parents. It's like... Aaron Ng (56:26) Yeah. I love it. Mmm. Dan (56:38) It can just feel like a constant failing on our end, guys. It's not what it's about. It's about just being able to influence the things you can influence. You know, it's being able to be grateful for the things you've got. It's being able to be future present and future focused, faithful with the now, but also have an eye on the future. And it's what's required for what's coming. ⁓ But let's not think that everyone else has got it going on because they haven't. No one has. Doesn't matter what it looks like, mate. Aaron Ng (56:41) yeah. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Nah, I think it's a pretty good end to the pod, Dan. I think everyone's going through a season, aren't they? Everyone's going through their own seasons when you look through it. And I think that's why it resonated with me, but I love, you know, just chatting through it with you. I feel better from it. And I think it's come out the other side. Like, I really do believe, Dan, that... Dan (57:11) They are mine. Aaron Ng (57:25) It starts the ability to get through a season, the ability to weather a season is your ability to be a good leader and have those foundations and anchors and knowing where you're going. And I think that was one of the coolest points that I've ever heard on this podcast, dealing with the baggage that you had in the past. Everyone has, like we talk about the post COVID PTSD still. Dan (57:46) Yeah bro, exactly mate. Aaron Ng (57:47) people still haven't got past that. And I'm not saying it's hard to get past, but you do do that. And as I said, I think, and you were very raw, man, I've got tons of baggage that I carry personally from experiences that I know affect a lot of stuff. And if it wasn't, and due to my personality sometimes, and you called me out on it, Dan, when you sent me that unify message, actually, due to my personality and my baggage that I'm slowly getting rid of, You know, you saw me, man. I go into a shell. No one can contact me. And I'll just get in my shell and I will just smash away at stuff and work harder. And then I'll come out the other side. Totally exhausted, totally pissed off. My wife hates me. My daughter hates me. But I got the job done. And then I hate myself. Dan (58:21) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it, mate. And you know, this is the thing, you just nailed it, bro. No one's meant to do leadership alone. Because as much as I've said that everyone's got something going on, there are people that are specialists to help in areas. And mate, it's what I've loved about you, Az, is that you are so raw and honest, because it's like, nobody needs to be told by another person how to live their life. Aaron Ng (58:34) It's like it. Yeah. No, no. Which is you mate. Absolutely. Dan (58:59) But I can tell you this, I have appreciated on this planet, the specialists that have come into my world. You know what? I don't do my own accounts, never have. Well, isn't it awesome that I have the world's best accountant? And you know what? I've never looked after my own legal stuff. You know why? Because I'd go, you know, it'd be a nightmare. You know, so I've got the world's best lawyer. And then I look at other specialists, like talked about sales. I want to bring specialists into my world. Aaron Ng (58:59) Nah, I'll tell you how I've lived mine all day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan (59:26) Do I think they're good at everything? No, no, they're not good at everything, but they're good at the thing that I'm not good at at this very moment in time. You know, and as you're a legend, mate, and you know, what my desire for you is that you'll have good people in your camp, mate, who can strengthen you in your weaknesses and help you through those seasons because we all need it, Aaron Ng (59:27) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Oh I do. You're in there Yeah, I've got a few in my camp now, but like, I'll be truly honest, I didn't in the past, you know, before I probably started the good builder, really interesting, you know, and so this has been great for me, the good builder. Thank you everyone. But, know, particularly having, you know, getting closer to you, Dan and being able to do that, mate, you know, has taught me a lot. But I think this podcast is a very pertinent one. Dan (59:51) Yeah, it's so important, Yeah. Aaron Ng (1:00:07) You know, we didn't give you the technical answers on how to build, but I think what we gave you is the answer on how to live a good life and run a good business and set the foundations right. Seasons was the topic. Seasons will always be there, but it's the things that I think anchor you that are going to give you a bit of a winning life and you'll enjoy it more. Dan, I love our chats every single time, man. So, well, mate. Dan (1:00:27) Thanks, bro. You're a legend, mate. Thank you. Aaron Ng (1:00:29) I do have to log off. But I will put all the links below for Dan have a chat with him guys actually like I said about that builder case study we are gonna do it so I'll build her out there I've got a few on the mind that I'm going to get in touch with anyway so it's gonna happen but if anyone wants to jump in first get in touch we're put them through the course we're do all of that we're gonna show what makes a good builder and set up their businesses right and I really want to make this a living case study to Dan. May thank you so much for all you share on the podcast and yeah, man, I can't see I can't do this alone. We are the prime example of not doing it alone because if I sat here every day and preach leadership, sales process, things like that shit I've never done. I'd have no listeners. You're the reason we have listeners mate. So thank you. All right, Dan. Dan (1:01:07) Yeah. Yeah. Cheers mate, you're a legend. See you guys, all the best.