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Cash, Concessions & Control—the Iran Deal Debate Erupts · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: This is one of those.
0:01
Speaker 2: Really, I'm just going to start off by saying unique
0:05
Speaker 2: and frustrating moments that I have in my career where
0:09
Speaker 2: I would love to come on here and tell you
0:11
Speaker 2: that the Iran nuclear deal after seeing the memo of understanding,
0:15
Speaker 2: is amazing, but I cannot do that.
0:19
Speaker 3: Now.
0:19
Speaker 2: They are going to instantly be people that are angry
0:21
Speaker 2: at me for even immediately saying that to you. If
0:25
Speaker 2: you're listening to this show, I want to start off
0:28
Speaker 2: by saying, listen to it in its entirety. My goal
0:31
Speaker 2: today is to educate you about what is in the deal,
0:34
Speaker 2: or maybe what's not in the deal, and why. I
0:37
Speaker 2: believe that the President is getting bad advice from some
0:41
Speaker 2: people around him. All right, that's the whole goal here.
0:43
Speaker 2: I want to make this deal better. I want to
0:46
Speaker 2: make it better for the president. I want to make
0:48
Speaker 2: it better for the American people. I want to make
0:49
Speaker 2: it better for national security. And I believe the president
0:51
Speaker 2: is getting bad advice.
0:53
Speaker 1: Now.
0:53
Speaker 2: For months, we've all been told the objective of this
0:58
Speaker 2: entire thing with Iran was simple, stop the world's leading
1:01
Speaker 2: state sponsor of terrorism from obtaining a nuclear weapon. I
1:05
Speaker 2: do believe the president is absolutely doing that. So let's
1:08
Speaker 2: just start with that, all right. We also were told
1:11
Speaker 2: this about restoring stability the Middle East and ensure freedom
1:15
Speaker 2: of navigation through the most important waterway on Earth, the
1:18
Speaker 2: Strait of Horm Moves. When it comes to that, that
1:22
Speaker 2: is now my biggest concern is that we are actually
1:26
Speaker 2: not going to get that. And you may say, Ben,
1:28
Speaker 2: what do you mean we're not going to get that? Well,
1:31
Speaker 2: if you look at the memo of understanding, Iran is
1:34
Speaker 2: going to be rewarded, is the best way I can
1:36
Speaker 2: describe it. With having power over the Strait of Horn moves.
1:40
Speaker 2: That is something that I think is unacceptable. I don't
1:43
Speaker 2: believe that's the right decision. I think that that is
1:47
Speaker 2: one of the most important waterways on Earth, and we've
1:49
Speaker 2: witnessed how much it is can be used against us,
1:53
Speaker 2: and now we're seeing it straight up how much it
1:56
Speaker 2: is being used against us.
1:58
Speaker 1: All right, So let's just I want to say start
2:00
Speaker 1: with that. Now.
2:03
Speaker 2: The text the proposal and the mimom of Understanding is
2:08
Speaker 2: out there. You can read it. I'll read parts of
2:11
Speaker 2: it to you if I need to, but I'm going
2:13
Speaker 2: to give you the overall all right, this is where
2:16
Speaker 2: the debate now is erupting and where guys like me
2:18
Speaker 2: are signing the alarm telling you this is not the
2:21
Speaker 2: right agreement. There are real arguments now over whether the
2:26
Speaker 2: agreement achieves the goals that I mentioned above all right,
2:30
Speaker 2: whether Tehran walks away with significant concessions, which based on
2:33
Speaker 2: what we have read, the answer is they're winning here, okay,
2:38
Speaker 2: in this agreement.
2:39
Speaker 1: Now.
2:39
Speaker 2: The agreement has also been defended by President Trump, his administration,
2:44
Speaker 2: Vice President JD. Vance, and top White House staff as
2:47
Speaker 2: a framework, and they want you to understand that this is,
2:51
Speaker 2: I guess, in essence, like the best deal we could
2:53
Speaker 2: get done really really fast. I still don't think that
2:56
Speaker 2: means it's a good deal or worth signing as reads
3:00
Speaker 2: right now. I also want to tell you there's a
3:03
Speaker 2: lot of hardcore America First conservatives in the House incent
3:06
Speaker 2: that I have talked to this afternoon and all day today,
3:11
Speaker 2: who have said the same thing to me over and
3:14
Speaker 2: over and over again. They've all said they can't believe
3:19
Speaker 2: that this is what we have now. Good friend of
3:22
Speaker 2: mine was pretty brave and came out early and has
3:26
Speaker 2: taken an awful lot of heat on what he has said,
3:30
Speaker 2: and that has been Dominich.
3:31
Speaker 1: Ben is a Fox News contributor.
3:34
Speaker 2: You see him on Fox a lot, you see him
3:37
Speaker 2: on Brett Bear's show, and I'm going to have him
3:39
Speaker 2: on in a moment to explain why he has concerns
3:43
Speaker 2: over this deal. And I think this is one of
3:45
Speaker 2: those grand conversations that is so important because if we
3:50
Speaker 2: don't know what's in the deal, then that's a disaster.
3:54
Speaker 2: And we've also been told that there's like certain things
3:56
Speaker 2: in steel they can't tell us about. That makes no
3:59
Speaker 2: sense to me at all. Putting Qatar's interests ahead of Americans. Sorry,
4:04
Speaker 2: that's not your job. I don't care if you are
4:06
Speaker 2: the Vice president United States of America to put the
4:09
Speaker 2: concerns of Qatar and their privacy in this memory of
4:14
Speaker 2: understanding ahead of the United States citizens who elected you.
4:17
Speaker 2: I want to say that on the record very clearly.
4:21
Speaker 1: Now. Vice President JD. Vance has talked about the framework.
4:25
Speaker 2: He said that can permanently in hostilities and prevent Iran
4:29
Speaker 2: from becoming a nuclear power.
4:30
Speaker 1: That's good.
4:32
Speaker 2: Some security analysts, by the way, and pro Israel voices
4:35
Speaker 2: I'm one of those, are pointing to several provisions now
4:39
Speaker 2: that we believe give Iran way too much leverage. So
4:43
Speaker 2: let me walk them through these biggest controversies for you
4:46
Speaker 2: so you understand this. Number one is the Lebanon clause
4:50
Speaker 2: and what happens to Israel's position. All right, This is
4:54
Speaker 2: the first major point of controversies involving Lebanon as well,
4:59
Speaker 2: and the agreement in the Memo of understanding basically commits
5:03
Speaker 2: all parties to quote respect Lebanese's sovereignty and in military
5:07
Speaker 2: operations on Lebanese territory where they are housing terrorists.
5:12
Speaker 1: Okay.
5:13
Speaker 2: Iran has interpreted this language as requiring Israel and its
5:17
Speaker 2: forces to leave Lebanon.
5:19
Speaker 1: Iranian officials publicly stated.
5:22
Speaker 2: That a final agreement requires all of Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon.
5:26
Speaker 2: That means that they can then advocate supports and money
5:31
Speaker 2: and munitions and whatever else to the terrorist proxies that
5:35
Speaker 2: are in Lebanon. That is something we should not agree
5:38
Speaker 2: to in writing ever. All right now, many are now
5:42
Speaker 2: arguing that this is effectively providing political protection for Hesbelav.
5:47
Speaker 2: I'm not in favor of that, the Iranian backed militia
5:50
Speaker 2: which we try to annihilate, and so is Israel. This
5:54
Speaker 2: has been one of Israel's greatest security threats and a
5:57
Speaker 2: massive killer of Jews. So just understand this now. Their argument,
6:02
Speaker 2: by the way straightforwards. To understand, Israel has literally spent
6:06
Speaker 2: years warning the world that Hesbela has built not only
6:10
Speaker 2: a massive missile arsenal along its northern border with Iran support.
6:15
Speaker 2: But they argue that forcing is real. To withdraw from
6:18
Speaker 2: before Hesbelah is fully neutralized would allow Iran's proxy network
6:23
Speaker 2: to not only survive, but then to thrive. All right,
6:25
Speaker 2: that is a problem. Now, let me tell you what
6:29
Speaker 2: supporters of the agreement are going to tell you, so
6:30
Speaker 2: you understand both sides.
6:31
Speaker 1: I think this is really important.
6:34
Speaker 2: Supporters are going to respond that this language is only
6:37
Speaker 2: intended to create a broader ceasefire and reduce the chance
6:42
Speaker 2: of a regional war, and not to reward Hesbelah. They're
6:46
Speaker 2: already saying this on TV, all right. And they also
6:49
Speaker 2: say the exact implementation of security arrangements quote remains subject
6:54
Speaker 2: to further negotiations.
6:55
Speaker 1: Look, it's in writing.
6:57
Speaker 2: This is a bad part of the deal, and that's
6:59
Speaker 2: why I'm telling you about it right now.
7:00
Speaker 1: All right.
7:01
Speaker 2: Number two is the strait of Horn moves, all right,
7:04
Speaker 2: The straight of Hor Moos clause. I'm going to go
7:05
Speaker 2: through a lot of this would have been Dominich in
7:07
Speaker 2: a minute, because I want you to already said, but
7:09
Speaker 2: this is the one that really concerns me, and I
7:11
Speaker 2: think it should concern you as well. All Right, the
7:15
Speaker 2: straight of Horn moves is insanely important. Okay, Roughly one
7:18
Speaker 2: fifth of the world's all supply moves through this narrow waterway.
7:22
Speaker 2: It should never be controlled by Iran because if it is,
7:25
Speaker 2: it will be weaponized. And everyone knows that during this conflict,
7:29
Speaker 2: we saw it like in real time. Iran disrupted shipping
7:33
Speaker 2: and threatened global energy markets and put out their minds
7:36
Speaker 2: in the water, and we're trying to bomb ships like
7:38
Speaker 2: it's a problem.
7:39
Speaker 1: Now.
7:40
Speaker 2: Early American demands called for a complete reopening under unrestricted
7:45
Speaker 2: international navigation, but the current framework of the deal, based
7:50
Speaker 2: on what we now know, actually provides for a temporary
7:54
Speaker 2: period of toll free passage followed by negotiations involving Iran
7:58
Speaker 2: and Oman over future administration arrangements. Now, this could clearly
8:05
Speaker 2: give Tehran massive leverage over a route that many beliefs
8:09
Speaker 2: should remain entirely free under international norms and international waters
8:14
Speaker 2: and it shouldn't be under the control of a terrorist organization,
8:17
Speaker 2: which is i RAN in the IRGC.
8:19
Speaker 1: That is the problem here.
8:21
Speaker 2: Now, the Trump administration is already pushed back on this,
8:24
Speaker 2: and I want you to understand what they're saying. The
8:26
Speaker 2: Trump administration is arguing that the immediate priority is to
8:30
Speaker 2: reopen global commerce and prevent another energy shock and get
8:34
Speaker 2: oil prices down, which you should be in favor of.
8:37
Speaker 1: All right.
8:38
Speaker 2: Officials also say the agreement requires a RAN to restore
8:41
Speaker 2: quote safe toll free shipping and that future arrangements remain
8:45
Speaker 2: subject to negotiations quote unquote. Now I go back to
8:50
Speaker 2: the core part here. I don't think we should ever
8:52
Speaker 2: trust Iran to be in control of the strait. Let
8:56
Speaker 2: me give you another example of just kind of some
8:58
Speaker 2: of the shock out there. And look, I want to
9:00
Speaker 2: be clear, I think the president's getting bad advice. And
9:04
Speaker 2: that's why I'm doing this show the way I'm doing
9:06
Speaker 2: it today, because I want you to understand what I
9:08
Speaker 2: think is so we should be so worried about, cautious about.
9:13
Speaker 2: And even Trey Goudie, who went on Fox News channel,
9:16
Speaker 2: he has a show on Fox. He's a conservative guy.
9:19
Speaker 2: This is what he said, on TV about this earlier.
9:21
Speaker 2: Listen carefully to the words he uses.
9:24
Speaker 4: Santra is wonderful to see you. I was a little surprised, honestly.
9:27
Speaker 4: I mean, we literally had our foot on their throat
9:30
Speaker 4: militarily economically, and I read this MoU if you will,
9:35
Speaker 4: I guess about forty eight hours ago, and I didn't
9:38
Speaker 4: believe it. I thought somebody was spoofing me when I
9:41
Speaker 4: saw it, because I see what we're giving up. And
9:44
Speaker 4: then I see this word down blend. And I'm not
9:47
Speaker 4: the smartest guy in the world center, but if you
9:49
Speaker 4: can downblend, then you can uplend. And how long would
9:52
Speaker 4: it take a ron to upblend? Because Donald Trupe is
9:55
Speaker 4: going to be gone at January of twenty twenty nine,
9:57
Speaker 4: but the so called Supreme Leader is not going to
9:59
Speaker 4: be So here's my question for my fellow citizens. Do
10:03
Speaker 4: you really think Iran has abandoned its nuclear ambition?
10:07
Speaker 1: Do you believe them?
10:08
Speaker 4: What do you think they're going to do with a
10:10
Speaker 4: three hundred billion dollars What are they going to do
10:13
Speaker 4: with the old revenue? You think they're going to build schools?
10:16
Speaker 4: You think they're gonna build like they're gonna make women's
10:20
Speaker 4: lives better, or are they going to continue to target
10:23
Speaker 4: America in Israel. I happen to think the latter.
10:27
Speaker 2: Trey's right, Donald Trump's going to be gone, and this
10:31
Speaker 2: memo of understanding and this agreement could still be there,
10:33
Speaker 2: and that would allow for Rand to do insane things.
10:37
Speaker 2: And they're playing. As he described, the Anaitela will still
10:40
Speaker 2: be there. He is absolutely correct. The Ietol is still
10:43
Speaker 2: going to be there, and this is going to end
10:45
Speaker 2: up being a massive problem, which is the reason why
10:48
Speaker 2: I don't believe we should agree to this deal the
10:50
Speaker 2: way it's being described. I just don't. I really don't.
10:55
Speaker 2: I think I think it is truly shocking, okay, to
11:03
Speaker 2: see that this is the best we could do when
11:05
Speaker 2: we had our foot as trade put it on their
11:07
Speaker 2: throat in Iran. So let's go into now the big
11:11
Speaker 2: question about money. It's an important question. I ran based
11:16
Speaker 2: on this memo of understanding, is going to get paid
11:20
Speaker 2: before a final deal has been reached.
11:22
Speaker 1: That is a disaster, all right.
11:26
Speaker 2: This memo includes immediate economic measures just for negotiating, including
11:32
Speaker 2: sanction waivers that allows Irans oil exports and related banking
11:37
Speaker 2: transactions to resume immediately. Then broader economic reconstruction and access
11:43
Speaker 2: immediately to frozen assets that are tied to compliance in
11:46
Speaker 2: future negotiations. But they get access to it very quickly,
11:50
Speaker 2: some of it within six days. This is providing economic
11:53
Speaker 2: relief that we shouldn't be providing, and it's providing it
11:57
Speaker 2: before Ran is fully dismantled its nuclear capability, and it
12:01
Speaker 2: gives Tehran the resources up front while requiring the United
12:06
Speaker 2: States and our allies to trust future compliance, which you've
12:12
Speaker 2: never been able to trust Iran on Okay, not just
12:17
Speaker 2: what you need to understand here, clearly Now, security analysts
12:22
Speaker 2: are also coming out and saying that this is not
12:25
Speaker 2: the smart move because now Iran, you're giving them everything
12:29
Speaker 2: they want to behave without having to guarantee that they're
12:34
Speaker 2: going to behave. And Jade Vance came out and argue
12:39
Speaker 2: that Iran is quote not simply receiving a cash payment
12:41
Speaker 2: for sign the deal. He stated that quote no funds
12:45
Speaker 2: are being transferred merely as a signing bonus, and that
12:48
Speaker 2: significant financial benefits are contingent upon verified changes, including he says,
12:54
Speaker 2: nuclear compliance and broader behavioral changes. He also said that
12:58
Speaker 2: the proposed in a billion reconstructs effort would not involve
13:01
Speaker 2: American taxpayer money, and when only perceed if Iran fundamentally
13:05
Speaker 2: transforms its conduct. But the problem is they're getting money instantly,
13:09
Speaker 2: they're getting control of the straight ofform moves, and they're
13:11
Speaker 2: limiting Israel's ability to protect itself in Lebanon.
13:14
Speaker 1: Why would we give them all that?
13:17
Speaker 2: So here's the question I want you to ask yourself
13:19
Speaker 2: real quick, all right, does this deal represent what Trump
13:25
Speaker 2: said his goal was. Is this a diplomatic breakthrough that
13:29
Speaker 2: permanently changes Iran's behavior or is this a deal that's
13:35
Speaker 2: kicking the can down the road and giving a ran
13:39
Speaker 2: a massive payday for acting normal for a moment. That
13:44
Speaker 2: is the question that we need to be asking, and
13:47
Speaker 2: it's the reason why, by the way, a lot of
13:49
Speaker 2: consertives now are coming out and just being honest about
13:52
Speaker 2: this deal. I don't want to say brave, but look
13:56
Speaker 2: like I don't want to be out there going against
13:58
Speaker 2: the president United States of America. And that's why I
14:00
Speaker 2: also said the way I said earlier, I believe he's
14:03
Speaker 2: just getting bad at vice.
14:05
Speaker 1: I really do. I think that's really what this is.
14:12
Speaker 2: This is I teased earlier, I wanted to have a
14:14
Speaker 2: good friend of mine on because this is awkward when
14:18
Speaker 2: you are trying to tell people that love the president
14:21
Speaker 2: that he's getting bad advice. And to be clear, it's
14:24
Speaker 2: awkward when you're going on TV and you're having to
14:27
Speaker 2: say this. And my good friend Ben Namach you have
14:29
Speaker 2: to deal with this a lot right now. Congratulations. I'm
14:32
Speaker 2: watching you on TV and I'm smiling and laughing because
14:35
Speaker 2: I know how stressful it is because you want to
14:36
Speaker 2: pick your words wisely. He's also the man in charge
14:40
Speaker 2: of the Daily Wire opinion editor and host of the
14:42
Speaker 2: Big Bench show as well. You can grab that wherever
14:44
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you see him on Fox
14:46
Speaker 2: Fation Out. So Ben, you and I I think are
14:49
Speaker 2: very much alike on this where it's like how do
14:51
Speaker 2: you thread the needle? I started the show by saying
14:54
Speaker 2: there's three big things that I have major concerns on
14:58
Speaker 2: and why I feel like this is this is not
15:01
Speaker 2: the deal that we should be advocating for. And I
15:03
Speaker 2: think the presence getting bad advice. Number one, the Lebanon
15:06
Speaker 2: clause terrifies me in this minomum of understanding. The Hormuz
15:10
Speaker 2: clause also, I think is a disaster waiting to happen.
15:13
Speaker 2: We're rewarding Iran with an essence control of the strait
15:17
Speaker 2: and be like, well, hold on, Oman's in there too,
15:19
Speaker 2: Like that's not something like to make it better in
15:21
Speaker 2: my mind. And then the third part about this is
15:24
Speaker 2: we're actually they're the ones that shut down the straight
15:27
Speaker 2: and we're rewarding them with more than palettes of cash.
15:30
Speaker 2: If you were angry about pallets of cash sent by Obama,
15:33
Speaker 2: you should be losing your mind right now because the
15:35
Speaker 2: money question here is a big part of this. And
15:37
Speaker 2: if Iran is going to actually get paid before the
15:39
Speaker 2: deal is final, then they might just straight up be
15:42
Speaker 2: lying to us to get their hands on the cash
15:44
Speaker 2: and then not get the deal done either. Those are
15:46
Speaker 2: my three glaring things. Let's walk through them and get your.
15:49
Speaker 3: Take, so I'll go in reverse order. First off, the
15:53
Speaker 3: money part of this is to me the most embarrassing
15:56
Speaker 3: and ridiculous. You should not have to pay this type
16:00
Speaker 3: of price to the Ayatola in order to have some
16:04
Speaker 3: kind of deal in this situation. Unfreezing what could ultimately
16:08
Speaker 3: be you know, as much as three hundred billion dollars,
16:12
Speaker 3: and also of course unfreezing right off the bat, you know,
16:16
Speaker 3: a smaller portion of that, and allowing them to sell
16:19
Speaker 3: oil right off the bat before they've actually done anything
16:23
Speaker 3: measurably to demonstrate that they're going to move in the
16:26
Speaker 3: direction that we want to me. That's just abhorrent. You
16:29
Speaker 3: can't do that because once we know what they spend
16:32
Speaker 3: money on, then have so much experience, we know what
16:36
Speaker 3: their shopping list is. Okay, it's missiles, it's weapons or terrorists.
16:41
Speaker 3: It's weapons for people who want to kill Americans. It's
16:43
Speaker 3: weapons for people who want to kill friends of America.
16:46
Speaker 3: And that's what they're going to do. Again, It's not
16:48
Speaker 3: they're not building roads with this craft. They're not creating
16:52
Speaker 3: a universal healthcare system with this They're just going to
16:55
Speaker 3: start throwing it a space.
16:57
Speaker 2: They laugh because it's so absurd. We know what they're
17:00
Speaker 2: going to do with the money. The other part that
17:02
Speaker 2: I think is absurd is the money is going to
17:05
Speaker 2: who's de facto in charge right now of Iran, and
17:09
Speaker 2: that is a terrorist organization. We've declared a terrorist organization.
17:13
Speaker 2: Obama said, their terrorist organization. Biden said, their tterarist organization.
17:17
Speaker 2: We've said it it's the RGC, Like that's who's in charge.
17:21
Speaker 3: Well, and this is the thing that is so odd
17:24
Speaker 3: about this because it's the president has made and I
17:29
Speaker 3: appreciate you, you know, walking people through the difficulty of
17:33
Speaker 3: criticizing here. Part of the reason that it's difficult is
17:37
Speaker 3: because the president has made so many great decisions when
17:39
Speaker 3: it comes to foreign policy and national security. I have been,
17:43
Speaker 3: you know, really blown away by how smart he's been,
17:45
Speaker 3: how much he has made key decisions at key moments
17:49
Speaker 3: to deploy American military might in ways that have served
17:52
Speaker 3: our interest. I think it's been great. The problem is
17:56
Speaker 3: this deal undoes a lot of that from my perspective,
17:59
Speaker 3: and the straight is the perfect example of that. Before
18:02
Speaker 3: this conflict started, Iran was not in control of straight
18:05
Speaker 3: up horn moves. The idea that they would be charging
18:08
Speaker 3: tolls and fees in order to go through it was absurd.
18:12
Speaker 3: Now this deal presupposes that they're going to start doing
18:15
Speaker 3: that sixty days from now, and the money that they
18:18
Speaker 3: are going to get from selling their oil is going
18:20
Speaker 3: to start immediately. So the idea that this is a
18:23
Speaker 3: situation where I mean, Trey Goudy said this, I'm not
18:26
Speaker 3: sure that it's true. I think we could see the
18:28
Speaker 3: way it plays out. But he argued that this was
18:30
Speaker 3: actually a worse outcome than before the war. I would
18:34
Speaker 3: disagree slightly, only because their ballistic missile program has been
18:38
Speaker 3: set back significantly, their military program has been set back
18:41
Speaker 3: significantly in terms of their navy, and we've also seen
18:45
Speaker 3: the deaths of a number of their leading military figures
18:49
Speaker 3: and religious theocrats who want us dead. Those are all
18:52
Speaker 3: good things, and so we shouldn't pretend that that's not good.
18:55
Speaker 3: The problem is if you come out of this with
18:57
Speaker 3: a deal where the Iranians actually have more money to
19:00
Speaker 3: spend on their grocery list, and they feel like they've won,
19:04
Speaker 3: they feel like that we came to them on our
19:07
Speaker 3: bended need begging for a deal, which is certainly how
19:10
Speaker 3: this seems given the context of it. How much does
19:13
Speaker 3: that play into setting us back, which you know, the
19:16
Speaker 3: President's taking huge strives forward in re establishing American authority
19:20
Speaker 3: around the world, making sure that you know, nations that
19:24
Speaker 3: are our opponents fear us. There's a reason that Chinese,
19:27
Speaker 3: you know, for instance, didn't come to the Uranian daid
19:29
Speaker 3: even though they're proxy, and that's something that I think
19:32
Speaker 3: is a very good thing. Unfortunately, this outcome seems like
19:36
Speaker 3: it's being settled for entirely domestic political reasons, and the
19:40
Speaker 3: spin around it. Quite honestly, the spin, I don't know
19:43
Speaker 3: if you if that's it's the same way. Spin coming
19:45
Speaker 3: from the president seems more reluctant. It seems more about
19:48
Speaker 3: the economic ramifications. And you know, he admits, hey, if
19:52
Speaker 3: they go back on this, we'll be dropping bombs on
19:54
Speaker 3: their head again, you know, shortly. But well, even if
19:59
Speaker 3: you're doing that, the money is already flowing.
20:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that in Paris. I want to play this.
20:03
Speaker 2: It was simple eight seconds before he got on the jet.
20:05
Speaker 2: And here's what he said.
20:07
Speaker 1: If they don't come through.
20:08
Speaker 3: Is it a threat that we'd bomb.
20:11
Speaker 1: You could call.
20:12
Speaker 4: Whatever you want, but it'll probably happen.
20:15
Speaker 1: Let's be clear.
20:16
Speaker 2: You and I believe him one hundred percent that he
20:17
Speaker 2: will bomb the living crap out of him again if
20:19
Speaker 2: he needs to. So that goes back to the politics
20:22
Speaker 2: of this and the part Trey Gouty, by the way,
20:25
Speaker 2: said this one of your colleagues at Fox. He said,
20:27
Speaker 2: you know this deal is in place. The IATELA GET
20:31
Speaker 2: doesn't have a term limits in a year and a
20:33
Speaker 2: half two years like the president does, and he's still
20:37
Speaker 2: going to be in charge. So you make a deal here,
20:40
Speaker 2: and yeah, you can have trust that the president's going
20:42
Speaker 2: to do what he needs to do. But if the
20:44
Speaker 2: frameworks still there, then guess what the next guy inherits it.
20:47
Speaker 2: And that's not a good thing either. If this is
20:48
Speaker 2: what's in it.
20:50
Speaker 3: Exactly, if Gavin Newsom's in that Oval office or god forbid,
20:54
Speaker 3: somebody else, you know, it's not a situation where I
20:57
Speaker 3: think you can have any confidence that they would do
20:59
Speaker 3: what is nestor. And look, I want to be clear
21:02
Speaker 3: about this. This is not an advocacy for some kind
21:05
Speaker 3: of extended boots on the ground conflict. And I think
21:09
Speaker 3: it was actually and I'll be critical of Vice President
21:12
Speaker 3: here because he responded to something that I said about
21:15
Speaker 3: him and he declared he sort of lumped me in
21:17
Speaker 3: with other folks, said they want to have this extended
21:20
Speaker 3: war where we're just bombing until every Iranian is dead.
21:24
Speaker 3: That's yes, that is not true. The simple fact is
21:28
Speaker 3: I want an outcome that is in America's interest, and
21:31
Speaker 3: it is not in America's interest to hand billions of
21:33
Speaker 3: dollars to people who want to kill us and our friends.
21:36
Speaker 3: That's just facts. And the fact that you have I mean,
21:41
Speaker 3: that's a total straw man. It's the same way that
21:43
Speaker 3: the Obama bros. Paid you know, played this back when
21:46
Speaker 3: they were arguing for the JCPOA. They said, well, if
21:48
Speaker 3: we don't do this, if this is such an existential threat,
21:51
Speaker 3: we will have to have another endless war in the
21:53
Speaker 3: Middle East. And that's what everybody who's critical of this
21:56
Speaker 3: is calling for. No, that is just not true. What
22:00
Speaker 3: we want is a resolution to this that doesn't have
22:02
Speaker 3: us handing over a gigantic bag of money to the
22:06
Speaker 3: people who hate us.
22:07
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you about that criticism and the
22:10
Speaker 2: back and forth. For people that don't know what caused that,
22:14
Speaker 2: explain that real quick. You had said some things very quickly.
22:17
Speaker 2: You were in the first to sound the alarm. That's,
22:19
Speaker 2: by the way, I think it's brave. And there's a
22:21
Speaker 2: lot of people that are saying what you're saying and
22:22
Speaker 2: what I'm saying now behind the scenes. They're not going
22:25
Speaker 2: to say it publicly because they don't want to take
22:27
Speaker 2: the heat from the MAGA world.
22:29
Speaker 1: Right.
22:30
Speaker 2: I say it this way. I really do believe this.
22:32
Speaker 2: I believe the present's getting bad advice. And when your president,
22:36
Speaker 2: when you feel like the present's getting bad advice. I
22:37
Speaker 2: think it's our job to tell him that publicly. And
22:40
Speaker 2: that's what you're basically saying.
22:42
Speaker 3: Really yeah, I mean, I look, the what Ben is
22:45
Speaker 3: referring to is the fact that I went on Special
22:47
Speaker 3: Report and said that we shouldn't be backsliding into some
22:49
Speaker 3: kind of hillbilly Obama version of foreign policy. What I
22:53
Speaker 3: mean by that is this, if you are just rebranding
22:56
Speaker 3: the approach that Obama used as being a you know,
23:00
Speaker 3: screaming American eagle saying, you know, this is a great plan,
23:04
Speaker 3: that is just not accurate. It's not what is actually
23:07
Speaker 3: going on, and it ignores the truth about what the
23:10
Speaker 3: facts of these plans are. And so from my perspective,
23:13
Speaker 3: this is a this is kind of a branding exercise.
23:15
Speaker 3: You know. The Vice President's been out there, he's been
23:17
Speaker 3: arguing for it. Clearly he believes in it. I don't.
23:21
Speaker 3: I think that it's a mistake, and I think that
23:23
Speaker 3: we should be free to criticize in this situation, in
23:25
Speaker 3: part because I think the President himself kind of thinks
23:28
Speaker 3: this may or may not work. You know, we've got
23:30
Speaker 3: sixty days to figure out what's going to happen. There
23:33
Speaker 3: could be some major changes to it. But look, I
23:35
Speaker 3: don't want some kind of warmed over version of we
23:39
Speaker 3: need to pay off terrorist states in order to keep
23:42
Speaker 3: the peace in the world. I don't think that's true.
23:44
Speaker 3: I think, you know, the fact is we have done
23:47
Speaker 3: great damage to the Iranian regime. I think that's a
23:50
Speaker 3: good thing. But we do not need to turn this
23:52
Speaker 3: into some situation where, you know, everyone who has a
23:56
Speaker 3: critique of this deal, which has critics by the way,
23:59
Speaker 3: that run the gamut on Capitol Hill, they do not
24:01
Speaker 3: just include the Hawks on a rand. They include a
24:03
Speaker 3: lot of other people too. That is a sign that
24:06
Speaker 3: I think that this deal should be reconsidered. The president
24:09
Speaker 3: should reconsider it, and over the next sixty days if
24:13
Speaker 3: once this is presumably signed on Friday, you're going to have,
24:17
Speaker 3: I think, a real work to try to make this
24:20
Speaker 3: something that is better than it currently is.
24:22
Speaker 2: Let me ask you Devil's advocate question here and my
24:25
Speaker 2: guess with me is Ben Dominic, that Daily Wire editor.
24:29
Speaker 2: He's the opinion section there, also hosts the Big Ben Show.
24:33
Speaker 1: My question for.
24:34
Speaker 2: You is, is this and could this possibly just be
24:38
Speaker 2: the pressure of the midterms, and maybe the president understands
24:43
Speaker 2: and I said this on Fox earlier today. Look, midterms
24:47
Speaker 2: are coming. It's clear the present understands it and feels it.
24:50
Speaker 2: Other Republicans understand it and feel it. I have no
24:53
Speaker 2: doubt that the President will bomb them back into the
24:55
Speaker 2: Stone Ages.
24:56
Speaker 1: Yet again, if he needs to.
24:58
Speaker 2: Is some of this maybe, Hey, I just hit pause
25:00
Speaker 2: right now, get oil prices down. Gas prices down, and
25:04
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid to deal with them after. But I
25:06
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with them in the minority. I mean,
25:08
Speaker 2: they had a vote, and if it wasn't for John Fetterman,
25:11
Speaker 2: war power on a RAM would have looked very different
25:13
Speaker 2: for the president. It only only because of Fetterman did
25:16
Speaker 2: it not pass the Senate, and that was yesterday.
25:19
Speaker 3: Look, I think you're completely on to what's actually going
25:22
Speaker 3: on here. The dynamics of this are driven by the
25:25
Speaker 3: fact that there are a bunch of Republicans who are
25:28
Speaker 3: trying to keep their jobs, who are scared about gas
25:30
Speaker 3: prices and what it's done to middle and working class
25:33
Speaker 3: families going into the summer, and they're scared about the
25:37
Speaker 3: situation in the in the oil markets, and they want
25:40
Speaker 3: a short term solution in order to keep their jobs.
25:43
Speaker 3: I think the problem is that, as you said, the
25:46
Speaker 3: Ietol doesn't have that kind of restriction on him, and
25:48
Speaker 3: once he starts getting that money, he's going to keep it,
25:51
Speaker 3: and he's going to use it, and he's going to
25:53
Speaker 3: spend it. And so that's I think the real problem
25:56
Speaker 3: here that they have this short term We've got to
25:58
Speaker 3: keep a hold of things. Guess what, the historic trends
26:02
Speaker 3: were always going to be against them. I think Republicans
26:04
Speaker 3: are likely to lose the House in the fall, even
26:07
Speaker 3: though it's a lot closer than it used to be
26:10
Speaker 3: in terms of how much Democrats have gone insane, and
26:14
Speaker 3: it's a real run thing. When it comes to the Senate,
26:16
Speaker 3: it's tougher than I think people expected it to be.
26:19
Speaker 3: And what that ultimately means, I think is that these
26:21
Speaker 3: domestic political pressures are putting the president in a position
26:24
Speaker 3: where he has to make a short term call that
26:27
Speaker 3: may end up going and falling back over the entire
26:31
Speaker 3: party in November or December, assuming that the Iranians do
26:35
Speaker 3: the exact same kind of thing that they've done so
26:37
Speaker 3: many times in the past.
26:39
Speaker 2: Final question for you on this, and this goes back
26:42
Speaker 2: to Israel. You are an ally Israel, so am I
26:45
Speaker 2: I'm unabashful about that. This Lebanon clause concerns me because
26:49
Speaker 2: it neuters I think Israel's ability to do what they
26:53
Speaker 2: need to do to go after terras in Lebanon, and
26:55
Speaker 2: there are a lot of them there. And by the way,
26:57
Speaker 2: those terroists there will get immediate instant funding from RAM
27:00
Speaker 2: when they start getting this money from all sales, which
27:02
Speaker 2: would happen immediately before the deal's even done. Apparently that
27:06
Speaker 2: worries me. And look, then you got to go with
27:09
Speaker 2: hold on a second. If we're there to protect Israel
27:12
Speaker 2: and their ally, why would we have that in there
27:14
Speaker 2: as well.
27:16
Speaker 3: I think this is an indication of the strain that
27:20
Speaker 3: has developed between the Israeli government and BB and the President.
27:24
Speaker 3: But let me tell you this. Look, I was on
27:28
Speaker 3: one of our daily wire programs yesterday with our friend
27:32
Speaker 3: Baian Arsarga, and she said, look, if this was a
27:34
Speaker 3: bad deal for Israel but a good deal for the
27:37
Speaker 3: United States, I would still be in favor of it,
27:39
Speaker 3: because the United States needs to look for its interest.
27:41
Speaker 3: But the truth is this is a bad deal for
27:43
Speaker 3: both parties, and I think that that's something that has
27:47
Speaker 3: to be factored into He there should be no aspect
27:50
Speaker 3: of this deal that has anything to do with what's
27:53
Speaker 3: going on in Lebanon. That is not part of this deal.
27:56
Speaker 3: And hesbelot is. I mean, look Israelly, Israelis leadership and
28:04
Speaker 3: their military deserve the right to defend themselves, which is
28:07
Speaker 3: what they are doing in this instance. They should be
28:10
Speaker 3: allowed to continue to do that. And I realized that
28:12
Speaker 3: disrupts things for some of the other aims that the
28:15
Speaker 3: president has, but you know, basically preventing them from defending
28:19
Speaker 3: themselves is a very bad message to send in that region.
28:23
Speaker 3: We should allow them to do that, and we make
28:25
Speaker 3: sure that they have the ability to do that. And
28:29
Speaker 3: preventing them from doing that just because of some deal
28:32
Speaker 3: that you know, quite frankly, I think is not going
28:34
Speaker 3: to last long term, is absurd. We know the consequences
28:38
Speaker 3: of stuff like this, and as you said, that money
28:40
Speaker 3: is going to start flowing to these terrorist groups immediately
28:43
Speaker 3: and they are going to be more lives lost because
28:45
Speaker 3: of it.
28:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great point.
28:47
Speaker 2: I also think, based on my intel, you may have
28:49
Speaker 2: something different that there's there's more than a handful of
28:52
Speaker 2: Republican centers right now that are saying this is a
28:55
Speaker 2: bad deal.
28:56
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's all I've been getting in terms of
28:59
Speaker 3: my phone call today. And again, the people who are
29:03
Speaker 3: saying that are not necessarily the people who were raw raw.
29:06
Speaker 3: Let's go into Iran. It's a lot of the people
29:07
Speaker 3: who were like, Okay, you know, if the president believes
29:10
Speaker 3: in this, you know, I'm there with him. But now
29:13
Speaker 3: they're saying, look, this is not how we wanted this
29:15
Speaker 3: to get wrapped up. You know, we thought we could
29:18
Speaker 3: achieve something a lot better. And look, maybe there's a
29:20
Speaker 3: part of this that is driven by the hubris of
29:23
Speaker 3: how successful he's been in every other area. But look,
29:26
Speaker 3: we'll have the ability to look back in the future
29:28
Speaker 3: and see how this is judged, assuming that it goes
29:31
Speaker 3: forward the way that it currently is.
29:32
Speaker 2: Make sure you check out Ben and the work he
29:35
Speaker 2: does the Daily Wire opinion editor there. They did great
29:37
Speaker 2: work there. Also hosts The Big Ben Show. You can
29:39
Speaker 2: check him out also on Fox Station show as well.
29:40
Speaker 2: Ben Dominic, I appreciate you coming on and having this conversation.
29:43
Speaker 2: It's a hard one, but I hope it's one that
29:46
Speaker 2: everyone listening now understands this better. You can decide what
29:49
Speaker 2: you want on this afterwards, what you want to advocate for.
29:52
Speaker 2: But I say it, these are the tough conversations, and
29:55
Speaker 2: I think the most important is conservatives, and that's when
29:57
Speaker 2: we had it for you today.
29:58
Speaker 1: So Ben, thanks for coming on to be with you.
30:01
Speaker 2: Don't forget to share this podcast, by the way, with
30:03
Speaker 2: your family and your friends on social media wherever you
30:05
Speaker 2: can hit that subscribe or auto download button, and I'll
30:08
Speaker 2: talk to you again tomorrow