Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E31: Climbing Skyscrapers For Change: A Conversation With Maison Des Champs

Transcript

E31: Climbing Skyscrapers For Change: A Conversation With Maison Des Champs · The Lila Rose Show

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A lot of people are never going to seek out pro-life messaging,
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but if they want to watch someone climb a skyscraper and
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they follow me on Instagram, it kind of like breaks a lot of
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barriers. These buildings get thrown into
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the news. They go really viral.
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Last week I had a woman message me because she saw my video on
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TikTok and were able to save their their child, all because
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they saw a silly video of a guy climbing a skyscraper.
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So now we're going to chat with Mason Dechamp, who is a champ
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rock climber, rock climber extraordinaire who's done some
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very impressive feats and his hardcore pro-life.
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So we're going to talk about that and how he has faith over
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fear on mountaintops and buildings.
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So, Mason, thanks for coming on the podcast.
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Hey Lila, thanks for having me on.
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All right, so you've been rock climbing when you watch
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yourself, when I watch you rock climbing, like your rock
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climbing videos that you've recorded, I'm like, wow, this
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guy's amazing. He's probably been doing this
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since he was a kid, but we were just talking and that's not the
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case. Tell me how you got into rock
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climbing. Yeah, so I I guess it all starts
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up. I grew up in Michigan and I grew
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up hunting and fishing and I was always outside doing something
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kind of outdoorsy and I read the book Hatchet.
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And so I just loved hearing these epic stories and all these
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cool adventures. But when I was 16, I moved to
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California. My dad just got a new job in, in
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Los Angeles. And so, you know, there's not a
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lot of hunting in LA. So I just found something else
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outdoorsy to do. And my, my dad, he bought me a
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climbing harness and some, some quick draws and a rope.
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And we'd go out on the weekends and, you know, just sort of
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practice on the local cliffs. But, you know, I moved from a
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tiny little farm town to Los Angeles.
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It was such a hard move that when I turned 18, all I wanted
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to do was leave LA. And so on my last day of school,
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I threw everything in my car and I drove to Yosemite and I ended
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up spending I, I've spent every summer there since.
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But that was where I really learned to climb.
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And you go to Yosemite, it's just the gauntlet of climbing.
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It's 3000 foot walls and, and you really kind of test yourself
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there as a climber, especially when, when you live there and
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you're, you're climbing every day.
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So that was, I guess, really where I I honed my skills.
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So tell me what you describe for folks listening who maybe are
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not really versed in climbing, the different kinds of climbing
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that a rock climber does. Yeah, so there's all sorts of
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different kinds of climbing. There's bouldering, which is
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climbing really small boulders with pads under you.
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There's sport climbing where you clip bolts that are pre drilled
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into the wall. And then of course there's
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there's trad climbing where you're bringing your own gear
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and place it into the cracks and just sort of what we call free
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climbing. So you're pulling on the rock
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with your hands and feet and you're leaving gear behind you
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just in case you fall. But what what I do on the on the
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buildings is a little different. It's called free soloing, which
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means you leave all the safety behind it.
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There's no rope, there's no protection.
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It's just climbing shoes and chalk back.
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So you really have to be focused if you want to, I guess,
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survive. What's the scariest climb?
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Well, what's the first? Let's start with mountain
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climbing because you've done a lot of mountains.
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What is the biggest, hardest mountain climb you've done so
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far? Well, you know, height is really
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different from technicality. So like the tallest climb I've
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done is definitely El Capitan in Yosemite.
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I mean, that's just a a behemoth of a mountain.
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It's it's 3000 feet tall. And so when I started climbing
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on El Cap, we would take 3 days. And so you have these huge vinyl
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bags and these little cots that you bring up with you.
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And so you, you climb, I don't know, 1000 feet.
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And then you set up your camp and you're, you're hanging off
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the side of the mountain sleeping at night.
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But once you start to really get good at climbing, you can leave
4:16
everything behind and just climb it in a day.
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And it's a technique I like better because I get to sleep in
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my own bed. But sometimes it is grueling.
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It's it's you know, you get really tired towards the end of
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the day and you've been on the wall for sometimes 20 hours and
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the only way to really get warm is to get home.
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So you just have to shut your brain off and and keep climbing.
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It's kind of an, an endurance thing.
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But as far as like the scariest mountains go, I think that the
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scariest mountain I've climbed is the Fisher Towers.
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It's called the Titan and it's this huge mud tower out in Utah.
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And it's scary because you place your gear in the wall and, and
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normally your, your track gear can hold, I mean thousands of
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pounds. Like you could lift a truck off
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of it. But because the tower is made
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out of mud, the rock around it just breaks.
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And so you'll take a fall. And I remember watching my
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partner on it and he would fall and then RIP out like 1, 234
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pieces and he's taking like 50 foot falls on a mud tower.
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And that was definitely by far the the scariest mountain that I
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think I've ever climbed. We got a hotel room that night
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because it was just, we were so shook.
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Whoa. So how do you survive a 50 foot
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fall off of a mud mud tower? Yeah, so as long as there's no
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ledge under you and your gear holds, you're good because the
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ropes, the climbing ropes are made to stretch.
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So when you take a fall and you're roped in, you know, you
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really don't feel the effects of the sudden stop it.
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It's like a bungee cord basically.
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So the only thing that really matters is that there's nothing
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under you, because if you fall and you hit a ledge or something
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like that, you know, it's like hitting the ground.
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So you just got to pay attention to your surroundings, I guess.
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It's crazy. So you started climbing in high
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school and do you mind me asking you how old you are now and how
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many years it's been now you're you've been climbing?
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Yeah, so I'm 23 years old now, about to turn 24.
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It's been like 5 years since I moved to Yosemite, I guess.
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And then so seven years of climbing, but you know, I climb
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every day. So you get really good when you
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climb every day. I tell people it's a a selfish
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sport. So the more time you put into
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it, the more you know life it if you will, the better you get.
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It seems pretty impressive, though, to be able to climb El
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Capitan and to be doing have done it for only, what, five
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years now? Six years.
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I mean, it's hit or miss, you know?
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I mean, there's some guys who never do it and there's some
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people who do it really quick. I think it's all comes down to
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how bad you want it. A lot of El Cap climbing, I tell
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people, just isn't fun. It's just painful and you're
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tired and you're cold and so it's just how much you're
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willing to endure. And I guess I very zealous
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person, so I was able to endure a lot.
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All right, I want to get back to that experience of endurance and
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the suffering it takes to do what you do because it's just
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kind of mind boggling to me. But first of all, why are you so
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pro-life? You've been climbing now for the
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pro-life 'cause we're going to get into that in a minute.
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But what? When did you first become
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pro-life and why? Yeah, so I grew up Catholic
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actually. And my, my parents are, are, are
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very liberal. So my parents are not pro-life.
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They're sort of like Joe Biden Catholics, but growing up
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Catholic, I was always involved in in the church and they take a
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very hard pro-life stance. And so I was just always
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surrounded by that. And I guess it made me kind of
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open minded. But, you know, the more I read
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into the topic, the more I just realized how bad of a situation
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it it is. Like the baby in the womb is a
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baby. And so an abortion is murder.
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And if we are going to believe the words that we say and say
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that, oh, abortion is murder, then what that means is, is
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something that's just so insanely evil.
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It means that 70 million babies have been murdered in the womb
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in the United States alone. I mean, that's the largest
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Holocaust in history. And so the more I just learned
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about that, the more I just was convicted and sort of just seen
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that like, you know, years go down the line.
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What do you want your children to, to hear when they ask you,
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what did you do about the Holocaust?
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And, you know, I, I, if I put myself in Nazi Germany, I, I
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would want to believe that I would be someone who fought with
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every drop of sweat in my body to stop it.
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And so, you know, so many people try to put themselves in that
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sort of, I guess, thought experiment of what would you do
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if you were in Nazi Germany? And, you know, you don't have to
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put yourself in that thought experiment because you can just,
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I guess, realize, like, what would you do now?
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Because right now we are in the Holocaust.
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I agree and that's why it's inspiring that you're doing
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something about it. So tell me when you first got or
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how you first got the idea to use your rock climbing abilities
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for the pro-life cause. Yeah, so I kind of stole the
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idea from somebody. There's this guy, his name is
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Alan Robert, and he's known as the French Spider Man.
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So he climbs buildings all over the world.
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He's 60 years old, and he's still doing it.
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He actually climbed the Sears Tower in 1999.
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And that was, in my opinion, one of the greatest athletic
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achievements of all time. But in 2000. 8 Why is that?
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Why? Can you explain why that?
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Is, yeah. So the Sears Tower is a 1700
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foot, you know, skyscraper in Chicago.
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And the crack itself is not that hard to climb.
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It's probably like in a climbing grade like five, 10511, which is
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an intermediate level. But it's 1700 feet of climbing
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with no rest. And it's different from climbing
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outside, where the moves vary. I like to compare it more to
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like an exercise machine where it targets specific muscles
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because every move is going to be exactly the same, which means
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that you're just beating down those, like, same muscles the
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whole way with no rest. 1700 feet.
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And he got about 200 feet from the top.
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And he said he was so pumped he blacked out.
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And then the next thing he remembers was just being in
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handcuffs on the roof, which was kind of crazy.
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And it's kind of cool because Alan's one of the greatest
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climbers of all time. And now that, you know, I'm
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climbing buildings too, we sort of become friends just, you
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know, talking about what we do and swapping stories.
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So it's kind of cool to hear his his stories, But so wait.
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What happened? He wait, he was 200.
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Just from my understanding of folks listening, because we're
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not, again, rock climbing experts like you, if you're 200
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feet from the top of the Sears Tower and you're so exhausted
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because you're using the same muscles again and again to get
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every inch of that building, you black out.
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And then he says he wakes up in handcuffs.
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Why? He blacked out.
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He didn't fall off the building. Can you explain what happened or
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do you know what happened? I mean he doesn't even know what
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happened. He he blacked out and just went
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into fight or flight mode and he told me that for the next 6
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months he walked around as if he was dead.
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He just had PTSD and just couldn't believe that he he made
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it to the top. Meaning he blacked out, but he
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kept climbing, even well passed out.
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The guy's insane, so he. So he blacks out, he makes it to
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the top somehow because of his body just being in fight or
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flight mode miraculously, and then at the top he's in
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handcuffs. Why?
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Because, you know, climbing buildings isn't necessarily
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illegal. But they try to make an example
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out of you because they don't want people to try to repeat it.
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And then also they try to charge you with trespassing.
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And so it's it's sort of something you just have to take
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to court because the way trespassing laws work is that
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someone has to come out and tell you that you have to leave.
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And if you're 1700 feet up a building that you can't come
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down from, not only are you acting in your own safety to go
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to the top, but no one can come out and really tell you that you
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have to leave. It would be pretty bold if they
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did. Wow, All right, well, so back to
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your inspiration. This guy is an inspiration for
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you and you're you're sharing about how you started climbing
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for the pro-life cause. Yeah, So I, I, I watched him in
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2008. He climbed the New York Times
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building and he had done it to protest climate change.
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And I thought to myself, you know, later on, this is, you
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know, about a year ago, I was thinking like, it'd be really
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cool to have something like that for the conservative movement.
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And we, we hear the Andrew Breitbart line so often.
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It's like politics are downstream of culture.
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And so I figured, like, you know, if we want to change the
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culture, then we should really do something to, to join the
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culture. And that's what this this whole
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project was kind of based around.
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It's like, how do I join the culture in a way that will, you
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know, spread the pro-life message and sort of get people
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to break the barriers in their mind?
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Because a lot of people are never going to seek out the sort
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of pro-life messaging. They don't really care.
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They don't want to learn more about it, but if they want to
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watch someone climb a skyscraper and they follow me on Instagram
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and I post videos that are spreading the pro-life message
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in our debunking the sort of myths that the that the pro
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abortion industry spreads. You know, they hear that even
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though they're not intending to. And so it kind of like breaks a
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lot of barriers. And that that was the goal when
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I started the project was to do that.
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What was the first building you climbed for the pro-life cause?
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Yeah, so the first building I climbed for the pro-life cause
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was the Salesforce tower in San Francisco.
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And it's kind of a, a, a crazy story.
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I'd wanted to climb it forever. And it got to the point, you
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know, after, after I'd seen the photos from the Justice for the
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Five incident, I, I just felt convicted.
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And I knew I had to do something.
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And I would sit in class all day when I was going to UNLV and I
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couldn't think of anything else. I was just obsessing over it.
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I wasn't even paying attention to what was going on in class.
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I had no idea. I was just thinking about this
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climb for months and months and months.
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And so I, I started raising money because I knew if, if I
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were to do it, it's sort of the aspect of, of the, the cultural
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aspect, right? You have to have photographers
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and drone pilots in a way that's kind of marketed.
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And so I, I started raising money for it and I ended up
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raising enough money to go out to San Francisco and have all
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the crew with me and, and I bought the tickets to go out
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there about a month in advance. In the morning I woke up to fly
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out to San Francisco was the morning that the Roe V Wade
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draft was leaked. And I didn't plan that at all.
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That wasn't a part of my messaging.
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It just so happened that, you know, it's sort of like
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Providence, right? Like you wake up and like, whoa.
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It was like, to me, it felt, it felt like a reassurance that
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like what I was doing was going to work and was right.
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I don't know how to describe it because here I am joining a
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fight that, you know, you can, you can save babies, but there's
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no real, there was no real path to, you know, introducing
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legislation because of Roe. But now God sort of opened the
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doors and was like, you know, made the battle a lot more
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easier to fight right when I was joining in.
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And so that was, that was really cool.
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And because all of that got into the news, it really blew up the
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story. And, you know, I, I wish now in
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hindsight, I had been better at interviews.
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Like I had no idea what I was doing.
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I was just going on TV and answering questions.
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And now I kind of learned that like, it's not what you do.
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But so there's a little regret there.
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Like, I wish I had sort of more media training when I started,
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but you know, I'm, I'm was able to learn just from failing and I
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was able to sort of gain that experience as I went.
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I remember when you climb that building because I was living in
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the East Bay at the time, so about, you know, an hour from
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San Francisco, outside of San Francisco.
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Basically my husband was working in San Francisco at the time.
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And I, I actually saw the news coverage and I was like, who is
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this kid? This is awesome.
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I mean, and it was so cool watching people respond to you,
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Mason, because they were fascinated and they thought it
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was really fun. Now we're going to get into the
17:33
fact that it's dangerous too, because that is obviously a
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reality. But it was just this like
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surprising, unexpected and amazing thing that people were
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watching unfold in San Francisco and the whole city found out
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about it, especially business people in their offices, right?
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Because they like saw it and there were news crews and a
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whole a lot of noise around it. And then so they were kind of
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excited and positive. And then it got connected to the
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pro-life cause. And I just watched even in the
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news coverage, the reporters who were like, you could tell the
18:02
reporters liked you when the people watching liked you and
18:06
thought you were cool. And then they found out you're
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pro-life. And they're like, OK, we're not
18:09
supposed to like pro-life. We're not supposed to support
18:11
that. But we still kind of like this
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guy. So from your point about
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impacting culture, I think it has, I think it really has.
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And I, I, I feel like I've gotten to watch it first hand
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from the beginning. Yeah, you know, it was, it was
18:24
kind of crazy. Like I had a bunch of messages
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afterwards of people sending me videos that they had filmed from
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the inside, like people who were just sitting at their, their
18:33
desk, you know, And then they, they see me climb, so they run
18:36
to the window and they, they start filming me.
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And I did not save them in time because as soon as everyone
18:42
found out I was pro-life, here's all the sales force, like
18:45
liberal employees, They like unsent all of these videos.
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And I was so upset because there's just so much cool
18:52
footage out there that I'll never get to use.
18:56
One day, Mason, we're going to make America pro-life, including
18:59
California. Just going to it's going to take
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a little time. So how many buildings have you
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climbed now for the pro-life cause?
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I've climbed 7 buildings now and you know, I can't say that I'm
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going to keep going just because my lawyer told me not to, but
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hopefully. Well, what about your mother?
19:18
What does she think about it? Yeah.
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So, you know, my parents, like I said, they're very liberal.
19:23
They're sort of like Joe Biden kind of Catholics.
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And at first they hated every aspect of it, you know, the
19:30
climbing and the pro-life thing. And it's, it's one of those
19:34
things that like, how can you honor your parents the most?
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And to me, like, even if they disagree with me and they
19:43
disagree with the pro-life messaging, the best way to honor
19:47
them is to honor God and glorify God.
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And if you're doing that, then then you know, you're doing the
19:52
right thing. And, you know, you just try to
19:54
continue to witness to them and just sort of, you know, share
19:58
the gospel so that hopefully they they come around.
20:01
But yeah, Mama ain't too happy. Well, what do, what do you say
20:05
to folks who are listening? And maybe I've heard of what
20:09
you're doing and they 100% support your pro, the pro-life
20:12
cause. But maybe like your mother's may
20:16
have this concern. I'm going to guess is that, you
20:18
know, free climbing, free solo climbing a building is
20:22
dangerous. And you know, you're for the
20:25
pro-life 'cause you're fighting to defend children's lives.
20:28
But isn't this a risk to your life?
20:31
Yeah, you know, like one of the biggest criticisms I get in my
20:34
comments from a lot of pro choicers is like this guy's
20:37
pro-life, but he's risking his life.
20:40
And I, I think that's, you know, kind of a, a sad thing to, to
20:45
say because to me, to be a Christian, you know, and to see
20:50
these babies being murdered, like we should all be willing to
20:54
risk our lives to save these children.
20:56
I mean, that's what Jesus did for us.
20:58
He sacrificed himself for us. And you really read the books,
21:03
the book of Acts, right? And you see the risk that the
21:06
apostles took. I mean, these guys were stoned
21:09
in just about every city they went to.
21:11
They were thrown in jail. They were beheaded.
21:14
They were crucified. And nowadays our Christian
21:18
Church has become, you know, something of like a self help
21:22
group. And to, to me, it's like, no,
21:25
if, if we want to live like Christ lived and to look at the
21:30
examples that came before us, then we, we have to believe the
21:34
words that we're saying. We have to understand that, that
21:37
our lives have been paid for, right.
21:39
So whether I go up on the, the building and I fall or if I get
21:43
to the top, I know where I'm going because I have faith in
21:47
Christ. And so, you know, I, I say that
21:50
fear is the inverse of faith, right?
21:54
And so fear occurs when you have a lack of faith, because if you
21:58
know where you're going, if you're promised eternal life,
22:01
then what is there to be scared of?
22:05
How risky is it to climb those buildings?
22:08
You know. Physically risky.
22:10
It really depends on the building.
22:12
Like the Devon tower was pretty easy.
22:15
There was one hard move at the top, but you know, a lot of
22:19
people could do that. If I'm being honest.
22:20
There's it's not like a crazy athletic achievement.
22:23
Where was that? Where was that?
22:24
Climb that was in Oklahoma City Salesforce probably a little bit
22:28
harder than that, but like something like the Chase Tower
22:33
that was a legit rock climb, you know, and the technique itself
22:36
wasn't that hard. But doing that same stemming
22:40
technique for about 500 feet, it becomes really risky because
22:45
your, your, your muscles get tired.
22:47
You know, like at the top, my legs were just jello, but you
22:51
just keep, you just have to keep fighting And, and there is a
22:54
human sort of emotion, right? Like, like, for instance, one
22:58
time I'm climbing on this textured cement.
23:01
So it's like all textured. There's all these little like
23:04
divots and pieces of gravel in it and the, the sort of cement
23:09
beneath my feet just gave out and my legs slipped and I'm
23:13
holding myself up by my arms. And it's, it's a very human
23:16
reaction to go whoa. But it's like what happens after
23:20
that, I think is what, what really fear is because, you
23:24
know, to not take these risks, knowing that like taking these
23:29
risks is going to say babies to me is just a failure to have
23:32
faith. I, I really do believe that like
23:35
if there are children who are being murdered and like I said
23:39
it like like the Holocaust, if, if we're going to believe the
23:42
words we say and believe that over 70 million babies have been
23:47
murdered in the womb, then we should go out and do everything
23:51
we can to keep these babies from dying.
23:53
And I say don't want to encourage anyone to climb
23:56
buildings, but I hope that I can encourage people to be convicted
24:01
and to go out and to sidewalk council and to to sacrifice
24:05
their time and their livelihoods to save these children because
24:09
it is one of the worst things to to ever happen in American
24:13
history. And you're actually, when you've
24:16
done these climbs, at least the recent climbs, you're actually
24:19
raising money for an organization I support
24:21
personally as well and love called Let Them Live, run by
24:24
some dear friends of ours, Emily and Nathan Burning.
24:27
And you, by doing the climb, you're actually raising money on
24:30
social media for money to to explain what you're doing with
24:33
the climb for Let Them Live. Yeah, So every climb, every
24:37
building I climb, I pick a woman who is in crisis pregnancy and
24:42
we raise money to help financially support them.
24:45
So the statistic is that 73% of women who have an abortion do so
24:50
because of financial circumstances.
24:52
And these are circumstances that are completely preventable.
24:56
And So what we try to do is we help support them through their
24:59
pregnancy by like paying their rent.
25:01
And and if they need a car to get to work, we'll, we'll buy
25:04
them a cheap car or fix the 1:00 they have and sort of show them
25:08
love so that they can, you know, realize like, OK, I can do this.
25:12
I can be a mother. And the coolest thing I think
25:15
that they do is is they give job counseling.
25:18
So like that the women can be more independent once they have
25:23
the child, which I think is an incredible thing.
25:26
But the cool thing about climbing the buildings, and this
25:29
is where, you know, I think the cultural aspect of it gets in
25:35
more is that every time these buildings get thrown into the
25:39
news and they go really viral and women see what I'm doing,
25:44
like pregnant women do, and they end up calling in to let them
25:47
live. And like last week, I had a
25:49
woman message me because she saw my video on TikTok.
25:53
And of course I refer them to let them live and were able to
25:57
save their their child all because they saw a a silly video
26:01
of a guy climbing a skyscraper. What are what's on the list for
26:06
your next mountains to climb? Because you're doing building
26:11
climbs right now, you're also doing mountain climbing.
26:14
Yeah, you know, it's getting to be summertime, so I hope I can
26:18
get up to Yosemite and play around on, on El Cap.
26:22
You know, as far as big goals on mountains go, I, I think you'd
26:26
be really awesome to, to free climb El Capitan.
26:30
When I was 19, I started climbing with a guy, his name is
26:33
Brad Gobright, and he was like my hero.
26:37
Brad was one of the greatest climbers of all time.
26:41
But what made him so cool was that he was the underdog.
26:44
And the story kind of goes, you have Alex Honnold, who's one of
26:48
the most famous, most sponsored climbers, and he has the record,
26:52
the speed record on El Capitan. And Brad was living in his car
26:57
eating Donuts every day just so he could afford to climb every
27:00
day. And he crawls out of the
27:02
boulders 'cause that's where you sleep when you live in Yosemite,
27:05
you sleep in the boulders. So here's this guy, he's got no
27:08
sponsors. He eats Donuts and he crawls out
27:11
of the boulders. And he, he steals the record
27:13
from Alex Honnold. And he, he's just sort of the,
27:17
the hero for what we call dirtbag climbers, which is just
27:20
a term for climbing bums. And, you know, he asked me like,
27:24
hey, do you, do you want to come climb with me?
27:27
And how did he? Hear about you.
27:29
How did you how did you guys get connected?
27:31
There's literally a bulletin in Camp 4 and you put your number
27:36
on there and you just say, hey, I'm looking for climbing
27:38
partners. And he found my phone number on
27:40
the bulletin. It was just like, hey, do you
27:41
want to go climb? I need a climbing partner.
27:43
And we ended up climbing all of these routes all summer on El
27:47
Cap. I mean, he free climbed 3
27:49
different El Cap routes in one summer, which to do 1 is an
27:53
Olympic gold medal, but to do 3 is just incredible.
27:58
And I, I got to help him with every single one.
28:00
And there's a photo of us together and he's like doing
28:05
this gnarly rock climb. He's free climbing and he's run
28:07
out. And I'm in the corner of
28:09
belaying him. Just a young kid.
28:11
And, you know, my sort of dream is to, to recreate that photo
28:16
because shortly after that, it would have been that fall, Brad
28:19
ended up passing away in a repelling accident, which was
28:22
just, you know, broke my heart. And I, I say, like, for me
28:27
personally, COVID was probably a good thing because after Brad
28:33
died, I, I wanted to, it sounds stupid, but I felt like I needed
28:37
to avenge his death through rock climbing, which just would not
28:41
have been safe. And so it was probably a good
28:43
thing everything shut down and I had to like, slow my zeal.
28:48
Can you can you explain that a little more?
28:50
So your, your, your friend and I'm so sorry for your loss and
28:53
his loss for your friend passes away in a repelling accident.
28:57
And also explain the difference between repelling and free solo
29:00
climbing. But he passes away and that
29:03
makes you want to climb more. Yeah, yeah.
29:06
So like repelling is descending down the mountain, right?
29:12
And so your ropes probably 200 feet long, and the mountain he
29:17
was climbing was about 2000 feet.
29:19
So you have to do around like 12 repels to get to the ground.
29:24
And you run your rope through these metal rings that are
29:28
placed in the mountain. They're just sit there, they're
29:30
permanent. And you run it through so that
29:32
the rope sits in the middle and you each clip into the opposite
29:36
side of the rope and sort of counterweight each other.
29:38
And you just slowly lower yourself down until you're at
29:42
the next anchor. But if you go past the anchor
29:45
and you don't have knots in the end of your rope, they just, the
29:49
rope just goes through your rappelling device.
29:51
So that's what happened to Brad. And he fell to his death.
29:54
But luckily his partner who was on the other side, he fell and
29:59
landed on a ledge about 200 feet below.
30:02
And I mean, angels must have been watching over him because
30:06
he he didn't have a single broken bone in his body, which
30:10
is a 200 foot fall, which is just incredible.
30:13
But. Wow and and just explain so
30:16
they're not there are knots on the rope, but where was this no
30:19
rope, not knotted? What how did the accident
30:22
happen? And, and I'm asking obviously,
30:23
because, well, it's finding out what happened, but if you are
30:27
inspired by his death in the sense that you want to go climb
30:31
more, is that because you felt all this was completely
30:33
preventable, it it shouldn't have happened.
30:35
And I'm going to prove that it doesn't have to happen by doing
30:37
it right. I mean, walk us through that.
30:40
Well, so like, you tie knots on the end of your rope so that
30:44
when you're repelling, you get to the end, it jams up your
30:47
repelling device, right? Because the ropes may be the
30:50
size of my finger, but if there's a fist right at the end
30:54
of the year, a knot the size of a fist, it's just going to jam
30:57
up your repelling device. And Brad and I, we, we don't tie
31:01
a lot of knots when we repel just because we're going so
31:03
fast. We're experienced.
31:06
And he just sort of got complacent and for, and got to
31:09
the end of his rope and didn't realize it.
31:12
And usually I won't tie a knot until I'm like 10 feet towards
31:16
the end and then I'll pull it up and tie it.
31:18
But he just wasn't paying attention and fell off the end.
31:22
But as far as, you know, avenging your friend's death, I
31:25
say like climbing is, is kind of a samurai sport, right?
31:29
It's like, I don't know how to describe it, but it, it's not
31:35
necessarily like I want to prove wrong, but it's like, how do you
31:39
honor your, your friend? Like to honor another soldier is
31:42
to like go back into battle and, and win the battle.
31:46
And that's how I kind of looked at it in my mind, which is,
31:48
which is wrong because you don't want to take risks over, over
31:52
vanity. I, I don't believe in that, you
31:55
know, so many climbers, they, they turn climber into their
31:58
climbing into their idol and it just consumes their entire
32:03
lives. And I, and I think that's wrong.
32:05
I think we should be consumed in God and what God wants us to do.
32:09
And I, I sort of have this struggle in my head because in
32:13
climbing, there is this sort of danger aspect.
32:18
And I'm OK with taking risks and being in danger in the case of
32:22
skyscrapers, because it is this sort of way that I'm, I'm
32:26
glorifying God and I'm, I'm saving the life of another.
32:29
But to do it out of vanity on the mountain, you know, I'm very
32:33
conflicted in that. And so I try to think in my head
32:37
like, how, how could I honor God just by rock climbing?
32:40
And and I hope that, like it sounds so silly, but people
32:43
could see like, oh, that guy's a good climber and he's a
32:45
Christian. You know, that's the only way in
32:48
my head I can think of it, but I'd hate to, you know, really
32:52
take the risk out in the mountain and and die on a
32:55
mountain. It just doesn't seem doesn't
32:57
seem cool to me. So when you think about
33:01
climbing, you're looking at what are the, what are the smart
33:04
climbs to do that are not too risky to honor your life versus
33:08
what are the ones that maybe as you say, maybe there's vanity
33:11
involved or just too much desire for risk taking.
33:14
Is that kind of your analysis as you're considering your climbs?
33:17
Sometimes for sure, and like, I guess I've known in the climbing
33:20
community for doing really sketchy routes and doing stuff
33:24
that just is, is dangerous. But like since I've just since
33:29
I've become a Christian and since I've been born again, it's
33:31
hard for me to sort of justify that.
33:34
And I'm, I'm at the level where I could be pushing it a lot more
33:38
when it comes to the danger thing.
33:39
And I've just kind of chosen not to for that reason.
33:43
But you know, there's, there's some routes I'd I'd like to go
33:47
do and just kind of, you know, see, see how good I feel on
33:52
them. But it's sort of now as a
33:54
Christian, that if I feel like I can't do it, I would come down
34:00
rather than taking the risk just because, you know, it's not.
34:04
It's not cool to die in vain. Agree.
34:08
Yeah, you have a you have a lot of great things to do with your
34:10
life that God's given you. And I think, you know, climbing
34:13
can glorify God, but taking risks that are over much, you
34:17
know, maybe not so much. And God has a lot of great
34:20
things for you to do for the pro-life cause and for him.
34:22
So we want to keep you around as long as possible, Mason.
34:27
So a couple more questions and thank you so much.
34:29
This is all really interesting, I know to people listening and I
34:32
hope inspiring When you're on that mountain or on that
34:36
building and you are facing that stumble like you described, I
34:40
think on the Devon Tower and there was gravel in the in the
34:44
crevice and you're kind of slipping a little bit.
34:46
How do you deal with that psychologically when the, the
34:49
fact that you are hundreds or even over 1000, I don't know,
34:53
maybe thousands of feet above ground and you know you could
34:57
fall to your death, How do you deal with that psychologically?
35:00
You know, a lot of like hippie climbers like to turn climbing
35:04
into something spiritual because when you're when you are on a
35:07
mountain and stuff is not going right, like maybe the rock under
35:11
you is just breaking off and you know, you're looking at a fall
35:15
where you could die. Something like internal clicks
35:19
in. It's like a fight or flight.
35:21
And so a lot of hippies inflate. They conflate that with this
35:25
sort of like spirituality kind of thing.
35:28
And for me, it's, it's not so much that like in the moment, I,
35:32
I don't feel any kind of, you know, rush of, of spiritualness
35:37
because I, I think like the faith that you have starts on
35:41
the ground and it starts with like, again, knowing where
35:44
you're going to go. And so when that happened on the
35:48
chase tower, when my feet kind of broke under me, there was
35:52
this sort of human reaction, like, whoa, you know, and you
35:54
just adjust. But, you know, you get to your
35:57
little rest point and you just sort of go back to like, OK, do
36:02
I have eternal life? Yes.
36:04
Is what I'm doing glorifying God?
36:06
Yes. Well, then you're good.
36:08
And you just kind of shut your brain off.
36:10
And for me, it's, it sounds so silly, but when I'm up there, I
36:13
just kind of tune out, just shut my brain off and focus on what
36:17
I'm doing rather than everything else that goes around me that's
36:21
going on around me because there's so much going on.
36:24
I mean, they close down the streets, there's fire trucks
36:27
honking, there's helicopters flying all around and there's
36:31
fire department trying to talk to me through the wall.
36:34
I, I tell people that the climbing, if you take the
36:38
technical climbing aspect out of it, it feels like you're playing
36:41
Grand Theft Auto, but in real life, like you have this five
36:45
star, you know, wanted bounty on your head.
36:50
And you just have to ignore all of that though, and focus on
36:54
what you're doing. And, and for me, it gets into,
36:56
again, it's like is, is what you're doing a righteous cause?
37:00
Because we don't want to do evil acts so that good may come.
37:03
I think that comes out of Romans, Romans 12.
37:06
And so like, is what you're doing good?
37:08
Well, then yes. And then, then if the answer is
37:12
yes, then, you know, go for it. And you see so often in the
37:17
Bible, like the Christians are supposed to be persecuted.
37:21
They, they, the Bible tells us that we will be second Timothy 2
37:26
says that we are to endure hardships as soldiers of Christ.
37:31
And so we can't really entangle ourselves in everything else
37:34
that's going on around us. We just have to stay focused on,
37:39
you know, doing these sort of righteous works in, in honoring
37:42
God in, in, in everything we do. Mason, do you plan to do more
37:47
pro-life climbs on buildings? Like I said, my lawyer says I'm
37:51
not allowed to answer this question, but hopefully you'll
37:55
see me soon and on TV. Well, stay safe out there and,
38:01
and, and long term. What do you hope to do?
38:05
Are you going to be climbing your whole life?
38:06
What's your long term? What's your long term goal?
38:10
Yeah, I, I guess my long term goal is to just go as long as I
38:14
can possibly go. And I think that, you know,
38:18
hopefully we can inspire people and really bring out a revival.
38:22
I say like, you know, there's so much talk of, of revival in the
38:26
air. You know, you saw what happened
38:28
in in Asbury. And I, I think that if we want a
38:31
true revival, it comes by showing true conviction.
38:35
And one of my favorite things is Operation Rescue.
38:40
I mean, you saw these guys showing real conviction.
38:43
They were just on their knees praying, and the police would
38:47
come and beat them, and they refused to fight back.
38:50
It was just this nonviolent movement.
38:54
And it's like something out of a Jim Morrison song, Like the
38:57
police officers. You literally had police
39:00
officers turning in their badges because they didn't want to
39:04
arrest the rescuers. And so I think like you saw that
39:08
movement grow because of conviction.
39:11
And that's my sort of goal. It's just inspire this
39:13
conviction. And I, I tell everyone at home
39:16
that if, if you want to see a revival, it starts with you, it
39:19
starts with you showing conviction.
39:21
So that's my goal. Thank you, Mason, stay safe.
39:26
We're praying for you. And I would say listen to your
39:31
lawyer, but listen to God more than anything, more than anyone.
39:35
Don't listen to lawyers, listen to God.
39:38
Thank you, Mason. Thank you, Lila.