Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E206: The Scientific Evidence for the Soul w/Fr Robert Spitzer

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E206: The Scientific Evidence for the Soul w/Fr Robert Spitzer · The Lila Rose Show

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  Self consciousness certainly survives bodily death.
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  Even the New York Academy of Sciences states it that way.
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  Why is it that people become so lucid for that last hour before
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  they die? It's almost like their soul is
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  directly connecting with their central nervous system without
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  the brain in between. Wow.
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  If a child has a heart attack, about 65% of the time that
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  child's going to have a near death experience where his
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  consciousness is going to leave the physical body.
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  Our cerebral cortex is meant to be serving a transcendent soul.
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  So are you saying that the human brain is not the thing that has
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  logic that is a function of the soul?
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  Yes, that's what I'm saying, yes.
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  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Lila Rose
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  Show. We're getting to sit down again
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  today with Father Robert Spitzer of the Magus Institute.
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  He's here to talk about the mind and the body and its connection.
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  And a little bit of a quick preview here.
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  No, the mind is not the brain. So this is a very, in some
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  circles, controversial topic, but there is a lot of
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  fascinating research and science behind the fact that, yes, we
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  have souls. So we're going to talk about
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  near death experiences. We're going to talk about people
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  with dementia and Alzheimer's, very young children, unborn
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  children, people with developmental disabilities, and
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  how they actually do have minds that they might not be able to
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  fully communicate, but they're much more aware than we may
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  realize. And you guys, we just launched
• 1:28
  Supercast where I have something called the Rose Report, which is
• 1:31
  this growing community of people who are supporting this show,
• 1:34
  who are passionate about our mission to bring goodness,
• 1:36
  truth, beauty into the media marketplace.
• 1:38
  I would love for your support over there.
• 1:40
  We're going to be sending out weekly updates, special behind
• 1:43
  the scenes access. You'll have the opportunity to
• 1:45
  put in questions for future guests and a lot of more fun
• 1:47
  stuff. And you can check that out at
• 1:49
  rosereport.supercast.com. Father Robert Spitzer, thanks so
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  much for joining the show. It's great to be with you again,
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  Lila. You are one of my favorite
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  guests ever to talk to, so I'm very excited to have you in
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  studio again today. Thank you very much.
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  I'm honored. First of all, for those who
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  haven't gotten the privilege of meeting you yet, give us a
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  little background on Father Robert Spitzer.
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  Well, I joined the Jesuits after I had completed my undergraduate
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  work and 1974, I spent two years of novitiate there and then went
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  on to do a master's in philosophy at Saint Louis
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  University. Went on to do a master's degree
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  in scripture at the Weston School in Cambridge.
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  Oh, I'm sorry. I went to the Gregorian
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  University in Rome for my Mdev and then my master's in
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  scripture at Weston School in Cambridge.
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  Then went on to do the PhD in philosophy at the Catholic
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  University of America. Emphasize space-time studies,
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  philosophy of science while I was there.
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  And then, Oh well, I've been in various Apostolic missions
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  during my time. I taught at Georgetown
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  University for a while, taught at Seattle University and Frank
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  Schon's chair at Seattle University, went on to become
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  president of Gonzaga University for 11 years, and then came down
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  to California here to start the Maja Center of Reason Faith.
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  So you're a philosopher of science with a specialty in
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  physics, and you've written how many books now, Father?
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  20. Phenomenal.
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  And these are not your average 200 page books.
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  No, they're. What's your longest book father?
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  Well, that's about 500 pages, but but I've just finished the
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  science reason face study Bible, and that's a that's a long E,
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  but it's of course combined for the Bible.
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  So it's got an introduction to the Old Testament introduction
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  in the New Testament. And then, you know, what if if
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  there's some problem, you know, that people or question that
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  people have and they keep bringing it up, you know, like
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  we try to put the right in the margin where the passage is
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  located an answer to it. So if it's a science based
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  question, like maybe in Genesis, then, you know, I would give an
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  explanation of that. What's a contemporary science?
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  How does the church work with you know, things that or there
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  might be a difference between a scientific explanation of
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  biblical one or sometimes if it's a morality claim, for
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  example, and Moses might be saying, you know, kill every
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  man, woman, child, cat and dog, right, You know, in the
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  conquered land and you know, student goes.
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  How can that be biblical? You know, you know, is that to
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  do with Jesus Christ. So you have to explain what's
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  called Ratzinger is a distinction between the core of
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  the message versus what he would call the external form of the
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  message, which is culturally bound.
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  Sounds like a fun project and a time consuming one.
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  Yeah, yeah. What was your interest in
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  aliens? Well, you know, Aliens is.
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  How did you get interested in aliens?
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  Well, because, you know, I deal with the questions of soul, for
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  example, and, you know, life after death.
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  So when I deal with, for example, near death experiences,
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  which showed, you know, that pretty conclusively now, at
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  least according to the New York Academy of Sciences in 2022,
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  right, that is very likely that your consciousness, your soul
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  body is going to survive your but your physical body's death,
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  right. So there's, there's really good
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  evidence for that. But on top of that, there's a
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  whole lot of evidence too that basically says that self
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  consciousness, what we call rational abstract processes and
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  conceptual ideas, those can't be explained by physical processes
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  and structures alone. There's very good reasons for
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  believing that you're going to have to have something in in
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  order to have conceptual ideas, for example, like Noam Chomsky
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  and Robert Berwick, You know, let me ask the question.
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  You know, how come Nim Chimpsky, the highest trained, you know, a
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  chimpanzee, right can learn almost 200 words in American
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  Sign Language. Why can't Nem Chimpsky do the
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  easiest syntactical operation? For example, differentiate
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  between dog bites man and man bites dog that you know, a 1 1/2
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  year old child could laugh at that.
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  You know the the man biting the dog, understand the difference
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  no problem. You just cannot get attempt to
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  do the easiest syntactical operations.
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  Well, there's a variety of reasons for it, but the the
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  essential one is chimpanzees don't abstract.
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  They don't have relationships among relationships.
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  They don't think in terms of relationship. 95% of the words
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  we use are relationship words, these relationship things and
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  we're holding them. It's like in our I'm going to
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  call it a soul. Is it the soul though?
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  Because I think the materialist would say, well, that's your
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  brain function. You have a more sophisticated
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  brain than the chimp. And so all of those that, that,
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  that ability to be rational. I mean, I don't know if that's a
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  word you put on that, but your your ability to be rational and
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  to see all of those connections and to, you know, think in that
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  abstract way. That's just a more developed
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  brain than the chimp. Yeah.
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  The problem is of course, is that in order to get the more
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  developed brain, you have to transcend a level, right?
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  Why can't AI, for example, and I'm an AI fan, I've got my own
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  AI app, right, You know, no problem there.
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  But the point is, is AI can't do, you know, conceptual ideas.
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  They can't do any abstract idea whatsoever.
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  They don't know what a group really refers to.
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  All AI can. All your brain can do is what AI
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  can do on the computer. It's basically if it's just a
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  strictly a brain function. You can, of course, through
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  circuitry, you can explain a whole set of perceptions.
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  You can take relationships among perceptions that you can
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  visually simulate and things of that nature, but at the same
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  time, there's no understanding of what that group means, what 1
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  means in relation to two, what you know 'cause means.
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  You know how that's a, you know, a, a relationship.
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  You know that that happens between, you know, one thing's
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  approach or origin and and the effect that that that is a
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  consequence of it. In fact, well, frankly,
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  antecedent inconsequent, those things are relationship terms.
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  The the AI doesn't understand it.
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  It can only be taught how to use it and how to manipulate it in
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  binary language so that you can get, you know, simulate logical
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  operations. But they don't understand logic
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  at all that you know, not not like you and I do.
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  So are you saying that the human brain is not the thing that has
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  logic? That that is a function of the
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  soul. Yes, that's what I'm saying,
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  yes. And so I mean again, the
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  materialist, if they were sitting here, you know, or the
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  the person. They would protest vigorously,
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  but you know, the challenge of course, of everybody who thinks
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  like I do in the world would just say, well, show me one
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  single solitaire in the vast complex of AI operations.
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  Show me that there is any understanding.
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  Well, first of all, there's not even any self consciousness in
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  AII mean you can simulate self consciousness in AI, Make it
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  look like it has an ego, make it look like it cares about itself,
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  make it looks like it has empathy and really cares for
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  you, you know, and so forth and so on.
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  But it doesn't. It has no sense of itself.
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  It has no sense of you as subject, as a self-conscious
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  entity. It has no natural empathy with
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  you, right? It, it, it can.
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  It just simulates what you do. And so again, you see these poor
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  people who think you know this. I love my computer.
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  Your computer doesn't love you back.
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  I'll just tell you that right now.
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  It can simulate loving behaviors towards you, which it has been
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  programmed to do, or it's training modules have trained it
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  to do, but it really doesn't have any love.
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  Use the code Lila. But to speak of the human brain,
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  like for example, here's an article this is an NIH, you
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  know, research paper, the brain network reflecting bodily self
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  consciousness, A functional connectivity study, right?
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  And they're saying several brain regions are important for
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  processing self location and first person perspective 2
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  important aspects of bodily self consciousness.
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  However, the interplay between these regions has not been
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  clarified. So they're not able to fully
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  understand how this works, you know, in in the brain.
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  Here's another, you know, website, the Scientific
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  American. It says case study suggests that
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  some forms of consciousness may not require an intact cerebrum.
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  Here's something else. 2 areas of the brain that are important
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  in retrieving self knowledge are the medial prefrontal cortex and
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  the medial posterior peridal, peridal parietal parietal
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  cortex, the posterior cingulate cortex, the anterior.
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  But anyways, they're trying to explain self consciousness from
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  a purely materialist perspective of how your brain a living.
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  Brain the way they're using self there already presumes you have
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  a self to be located so in other words, when you see brain
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  stimulation and functions, which you can obviously project even
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  onto a a very good brain sketcher diagram right you can
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  show where the electrical activity is occurring.
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  You know when certain events are done things of that nature.
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  But the idea of having a self, right, you know, some
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  self-awareness, you know, that's caused by the brain, not which
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  is, you know, using brain functions, right to to meld your
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  sense of self with the perceptual image that the brain
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  is processing. Brain can process all kinds of
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  perceptual images, but it is not getting a, you know, a notion of
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  self. By the way, there's very, very
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  good articles that have been written on this.
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  Sir John Eccles has has written on this good Nobel Prize
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  winning, you know, physiologist and also David Chalmers over
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  there at New York University is big book on at Oxford University
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  Press very even Thomas Nagel, you know, who's professed really
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  I'm going to say agnostic slash atheist because he certainly
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  believes in some form of mind in the universe.
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  But all of these people don't think there's any way you can
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  reduce selfhood to the brain, to the brain, or to any physical
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  process. But you know, I'm assuming that
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  the brain is a physical process and structure.
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  That's what it is. And if it's a physical process
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  and structure, no way can you reduce self consciousness to
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  that. I this is, this is off the topic
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  of aliens, but we're going to connect back to it.
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  I promise. It's going to be, it's going to
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  be, it's going to be important. But I was in a debate, you know,
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  I don't know, a year or two ago and the person I was debating is
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  Destiny. It's a, he's a YouTube.
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  Anyways, he was saying, well, if you have a brain transplant, if
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  you have a brain transplant, are you still you?
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  And I and I argued, yeah, I think you would still be you.
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  But you know, we maybe it wasn't.
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  Clear the brain if your soul stayed with.
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  If your soul. Stayed right?
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  Yeah, but if it didn't stay. With then it wouldn't be you.
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  How would we know that? Well.
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  I guess I wasn't arguing. It would be.
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  I said theoretically. My argument was theoretically,
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  if you had 'cause we're kind of discussing what makes you you,
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  right? What makes a human a human?
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  It's really your soul to be honest with you self
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  consciousness because soul, the self consciousness cannot be
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  reduced to soul. I think they're really good
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  arguments from an analytical point of view.
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  Like Chalmers. As I said, Thomas Nagle has no
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  religious action going whatsoever.
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  He certainly does not believe that you that self-conscious.
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  It can be reduced to physical processing structure.
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  So if your view of the brain is basically a mechanistic 1, which
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  it sounds like this fellow you were debating and seems to think
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  so, then if you got a brain transplant but your soul didn't
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  remain with your body, it wouldn't be you if your soul.
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  His argument was that you are your brain.
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  That was his argument. You are your.
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  Brain, that's simply not true. That you're you're defined, your
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  humanity is defined by how developed your brain is because
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  he would argue that the the baby at 20 weeks unborn is has not
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  developed enough of a brain enough.
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  Consciousness is the word he uses to describe the function of
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  the brain at that time of development.
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  And so therefore, because consciousness is what makes
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  human beings separate, you know, different from the chimp per SE,
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  and you don't have enough of your physical consciousness
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  developed until around 2020 weeks preborn, and that's
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  defined your humanity then therefore.
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  So he's rooting consciousness entirely in the function and
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  development of the brain. I, I don't believe that he is
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  correct. And I, like I said, I'll, you
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  know, make recourse to very good studies that have been done by
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  Sir John Eccles and so forth. I, I don't have to use near
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  death experiences to, to so that, you know, self
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  consciousness certainly survives bodily death.
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  There's no question about that. And you can see that, you know,
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  even the New York Academy of Sciences states it that way,
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  right, That it's very likely, you know, that your, your
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  consciousness is going to survive your bodily death.
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  So it's just not linked to the brain, that's for sure.
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  And you can actually see that by the way, the cases of terminal
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  lucidity, that's very clear as well.
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  What is terminal lucidity? About an hour before for death,
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  many, many patients will suddenly we're talking right now
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  about patients who have severe brain lesions, severe trauma to
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  the brain of advanced cases of Alzheimer's or dementia where
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  you've got amyloid placates, you know, everywhere present in the
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  brain, limiting basically the IQ below probably 50, maybe even to
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  the point of 25. You're you're basically a
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  vegetable. You know, at that point.
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  I don't want to be disrespectful because what I'm about not to
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  say you know, tells against this, but you know, because of
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  the the brain malfunction. It looks like you're a
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  vegetable, but in point of act you are not in terminal lucidity
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  one hour before death when your brain doesn't have any capacity
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  whatsoever to be doing any kind of abstract function, let alone
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  self-awareness in any complex way, right?
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  All of a sudden one hour before death, you know, you know, let's
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  suppose I had severe dementia, totally amyloid placate brain,
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  you know, just incapable of having said anything intelligent
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  for six years. I wake up and go, Lila, you
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  know, I haven't completed my will yet and I got called a
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  lawyer and do this and this and this.
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  You're saying this happens frequently?
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  Yes. Yes, it's documented.
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  Yeah, just yeah, Take a look at Rudolph Tanzi there and you can
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  TANZI at Harvard. He says, well, he says we don't
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  have any way of explaining this, but about an hour before then,
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  then we know this happens all the time.
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  Basically, people get up and they start saying things and
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  doing things that only a person with well over 100 IQ could say,
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  you know, And then the religious sayings, you know, where people
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  actually will, you know, a person, for example, who's never
• 18:46
  said an intelligent word beyond an animal noise or just gulping
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  and you know, you know, and eating, you know, these, these
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  two researchers in Germany basically were saying, you know,
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  we can't explain it. I'm sorry, Father, would they
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  become verbal, You're saying? Oh.
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  Yes. So these would be singing
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  religious songs, they would be quoting religious poems or
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  sometimes relating stories, you know, being related, relating to
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  God. So this is.
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  How many? How many language?
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  How many cases has this been documented well?
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  Here's how frequent there's a good amount of research done at
• 19:26
  the University of Virginia Medical School Department of
• 19:29
  Perceptual Studies by Bruce Grayson.
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  Just look up Terminal lucidity, Bruce Grayson.
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  Take a look at also Michael Nam. Then you have the, the, the
• 19:38
  Loeben Lorber studies, this would be intelligence in
• 19:42
  hydrocephalic patients. Just take a look at those
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  studies because here you have like in these brain scans,
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  right? Hydrocephalus, just for the sake
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  of your listeners, hydrocephalus is when you obviously have
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  spinal fluid that's going up into the cranium, right?
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  And, and it's pushing the brain, it's squishing the brain higher,
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  but it's also. Basically destroying the brain
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  and replacing the brain and it just keeps doing this.
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  And as it rises up into the cranium, you basically have, you
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  know, in some cases less than a millimeter of brain tissue left
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  and, and. Just for folks listening, people
• 20:26
  know this probably that if you follow the show, children
• 20:30
  identified as having hydrocephalus in utero are high.
• 20:35
  The doctors always recommend abort the baby, yes.
• 20:38
  Don't. Don't.
• 20:38
  This baby is non term, you know, non compatible, incompatible
• 20:41
  with life. They have a terminal condition.
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  They say they're going to die soon.
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  You need to abort the baby. Well, don't.
• 20:46
  Abort the baby and they may die soon.
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  That's that's fact. But for all intents and
• 20:52
  purposes, you can see from these cases, these are like
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  hydrocephalic cases. These are adult hydrocephalic
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  cases. And you can see, for example,
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  one person who had less than a millimeter of brain tissue, the
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  entire, you know, 9899% of his brain was destroyed.
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  And what little is left is pressed up.
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  You know, just this little thin layer between the cortical
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  surfaces is, is pushed up against the the skull.
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  Well, can a brain that's filled with spinal fluid do any
• 21:25
  thinking? No, the answer is not with your
• 21:28
  physical brain. We can see in cases like this
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  with less than 5% of the brain present, almost 5% of the case
• 21:40
  is sick. That would be 30 cases out of
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  600 cases. We see that these people have
• 21:47
  average I QS. That's that's the study the
• 21:50
  Loeben Lorber studies. They have normal I QS without a
• 21:55
  brain. You know what?
• 21:56
  Loeben Lorber? Name this their article.
• 21:58
  Is your physical brain really necessary?
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  goodranchers.com. Loeb and Lorber name this their
• 23:07
  article. Is your physical brain really
• 23:09
  necessary? So how?
• 23:11
  How was this? This is so crazy.
• 23:13
  So how was this crazy? How so you're saying were these
• 23:16
  adults that had trauma to their brains when they the.
• 23:20
  The the basically the spinal fluid took the place it
• 23:23
  destroyed the brain. So they, they at one point had
• 23:25
  an actual brain. They had an actual brain and
• 23:27
  they developed, you know, speech and language and relationships
• 23:30
  and educate. They had education, they had
• 23:32
  this, you know, disease or this, what disease would it be
• 23:34
  actually that they would have the hydrocephalus?
• 23:36
  They would get. This condition they would lose
• 23:39
  basically their entire brain, save maybe 5% or less or less,
• 23:43
  and they were still able to speak, think, reason, take IQ.
• 23:49
  Tests actually found one fellow who had a genius level IQ in in
• 23:58
  verbal and a global IQ over I think it was 130 with less than
• 24:05
  1mm of his brain so. What does this look like?
• 24:09
  There's a guy who has a severe brain condition his brain is
• 24:12
  filled with. Water.
• 24:13
  His whole cranium is filled with water and he's walking around
• 24:16
  like you and me and he's a math student who can perform
• 24:19
  mathematics maybe as well are better than me so.
• 24:23
  I have to. And so you're saying that's
• 24:25
  because of the soul? That's because his soul is what
• 24:27
  I have, no? Other This is exactly what
• 24:30
  people are saying. These are like scientific
• 24:32
  researchers who are just saying it can't be the physical brain
• 24:36
  that's doing the thinking. So if you want to come up with
• 24:39
  another explanation, I would have to say it's a trans
• 24:43
  physical thinking operation. And since we see in near death
• 24:47
  experiences or consciousness definitely like in in children,
• 24:53
  if a, you know, if a child has a heart attack, right, And you
• 24:57
  know, about 65% of the time that child's going to have a near
• 25:01
  death experience or his consciousness or her
• 25:03
  consciousness is going to leave the physical body in what I
• 25:07
  would call a soul body that can go through walls and so forth.
• 25:11
  You know that that child is basically going to have that
• 25:16
  soul body intact and be thinking and doing all kinds of things.
• 25:20
  Well, why wouldn't I think that the person the the hydrocephalic
• 25:25
  patient who's got a genius level IQ and as a math student, why
• 25:31
  wouldn't I think with with 1mm brain that it's that
• 25:36
  consciousness, that self consciousness that survives
• 25:40
  bodily death? Why wouldn't that be the very
• 25:44
  consciousness that's causing intelligence and hydrocephalic
• 25:49
  patients? And you know what all the people
• 25:51
  who have been studying this have said to speak of euthanasia is
• 25:57
  simply out of the question. These people still have an
• 26:01
  intact soul, or if you want to call it a soul body, something
• 26:06
  is there and it's conscious. It can even, you know, when
• 26:10
  people are attending you like in a nursing home, right?
• 26:14
  And you think, oh, that purpose Alzheimer's patient doesn't know
• 26:18
  anything totally out of it. They can actually, if they wake
• 26:24
  up in a moment of terminal lucidity one hour before death,
• 26:27
  they might just say, oh, and thank you very much for combing
• 26:30
  my hair and thank you very much for doing this.
• 26:33
  And you're never going to believe this, but I have
• 26:35
  actually, you know, seen God or, you know, or be, you know,
• 26:39
  talking about God or a religious song or something in perfectly
• 26:43
  articulate ways. And and these guys literally, as
• 26:47
  times you put it, you know, over at Harvard, you know, where is
• 26:51
  this from? I would say it's that same soul.
• 26:55
  I think the evidence for a soul is overwhelming.
• 26:58
  And maybe we should make that the topic of one of our future
• 27:02
  Lila Rose podcast. We're doing it.
• 27:05
  Now, Father, this is so good so. So anyway, yeah, so I, I really
• 27:10
  do think that there is very, very good evidence for the soul.
• 27:14
  And I think, as I said, I'm not just making up the things, you
• 27:18
  know, I, I don't think you do need your physical brain.
• 27:21
  Now, in the case of many students, that soul does not
• 27:26
  make a direct contact with your central nervous system so that
• 27:30
  you can speak and walk around and and so forth in a normal
• 27:34
  way. So these guys who really the 5%
• 27:37
  that are doing the have an average IQ or even a genius
• 27:42
  level IQ, those people somehow their soul, something not the
• 27:48
  physical brain is making contact with the central nervous system.
• 27:51
  So you're saying? It's 5%.
• 27:53
  Let's say there's, you know, all the people with, that's what
• 27:55
  Loben. Lurber, Loben, lurber.
• 27:57
  Sound, but what about I'm interested in unborn babies and
• 28:00
  newborn children and and very young children because you know,
• 28:03
  we report at live Action News on some of these cases.
• 28:05
  As an example, a little boy named Jackson, he was born with
• 28:09
  severe hydrocephaly. I think he was actually Ennis,
• 28:13
  Ennis encephalic. He he had a brain stem, but he
• 28:17
  lacked the the rest of his brain and he was born, he was non
• 28:20
  verbal, but his parents, they're told to abort.
• 28:23
  He did not, they did not abort. He lived to be, I think four or
• 28:25
  five years old and he was certainly they felt that he was
• 28:28
  interacting with them even though he was non verbal.
• 28:31
  So. But I think it's perfectly.
• 28:33
  Possible, because I don't think that interaction honestly is
• 28:39
  dependent on the physical brain. As I said, I think there's very
• 28:43
  good evidence even that, you know, I mean, right now you
• 28:46
  can't prove that a person in the womb, right, you know, has a
• 28:53
  soul. You can certainly see near death
• 28:56
  experiences of children who are three years old or even
• 29:00
  sometimes even 2 1/2 years old. You know, some of the very
• 29:04
  famous anecdotal stories like Colton Burpo, right?
• 29:08
  You can hear he's four years old and he clearly has these near
• 29:12
  have a near death experience, you know, and, and his soul left
• 29:16
  his body and he comes back and says, well, I, you know, I, I
• 29:20
  met my sister in heaven. The mother says, no, your
• 29:22
  sister's right here. No, I'm not in heaven.
• 29:25
  No, no, she's in heaven. All right.
• 29:27
  Well, how do you know she's in heaven?
• 29:29
  Because when I got to heaven, she came up and hugged me, said
• 29:32
  that, you know, she was my sister.
• 29:35
  And the mother says, well, I, I don't see how that's possible.
• 29:39
  She told me that she died two months, you know, after she was
• 29:45
  conceived in Mommy's tummy. She didn't use the word
• 29:48
  conceived. But anyway, she told me she died
• 29:51
  when she was two months old and she was still in Mommy's tummy.
• 29:56
  And she said that she died then and went to heaven.
• 30:01
  And she's been growing up in heaven over here.
• 30:04
  And so she is, whatever it was, six years old, two or three
• 30:09
  years older than Colton. And the mother goes, what was
• 30:12
  her name? And the Colton just said she has
• 30:16
  no name because she said you and daddy didn't know whether she
• 30:19
  was a boy or a girl, so you didn't name her.
• 30:22
  This is exactly the conversation that of course the mother and
• 30:26
  father did not disclose the Colton, but you know, he didn't
• 30:30
  even know he had a sister that he miscarried.
• 30:33
  And so essentially, you know, so you can get these anecdotal
• 30:37
  stories, but you know, it's very hard to prove Sir John Eccles,
• 30:41
  you know, that that's the he has a book called Evolution of the
• 30:47
  Body Creation of the self or no evolution of the brain, creation
• 30:50
  of the self. The self is a, you know,
• 30:53
  obviously another word for soul, right, a a non corporeal basis
• 30:59
  of self consciousness. So but it's souls, another word
• 31:03
  for it. But Echols has a very good
• 31:06
  argument that in order in this terms of brain Physiology and
• 31:10
  development of the brain in utero, right.
• 31:14
  Essentially, you know, it's the it's the fact that the brain is
• 31:19
  oriented towards self consciousness and conceptual
• 31:24
  ideas. That is what's making the brain,
• 31:29
  you know, sort of form in the way that it does.
• 31:32
  It's not mere genetic instruction.
• 31:35
  There's something already there. The soul is.
• 31:39
  Instructing the genetic code. Almost as if the soul is, you
• 31:43
  know, like AT loss, right? Like a you know, in a final
• 31:49
  cause into Mystic, you know philosophy is drawing the brain
• 31:54
  to its completion to be integrated with its abstract
• 32:00
  self-conscious and transcendental self.
• 32:03
  So right there there are three things you cannot explain with
• 32:07
  physical processes and structures in the brain.
• 32:09
  You can't explain self consciousness, you can't explain
• 32:12
  explain abstract conceptual ideas, and you can't explain
• 32:15
  transcendental consciousness. Our awareness of perfect truth,
• 32:18
  love, goodness, beauty and home. Our spiritual awareness of God,
• 32:22
  which of course includes our moral awareness or what we call
• 32:25
  conscience. All those things are not
• 32:27
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• 33:17
  The way I'm talking about, we're not just talking about religious
• 33:21
  philosophers, you're talking about, you know, non religious
• 33:24
  philosophers as well as you know, as people who are that are
• 33:28
  at are analytical philosophers, people who are transcendental
• 33:31
  philosophers, phenomenologists, et cetera.
• 33:34
  So it's a wide range of people who think it's not just the
• 33:38
  philosophical evidence, it's also the scientific evidence of
• 33:41
  terminally city near death experiences, intelligence and
• 33:44
  hydrocephalic patients. So, you know, the point is, is
• 33:48
  do I think that Colton Burpo was making this up?
• 33:51
  No, I, I don't. Do I think his parents were
• 33:54
  making it up? No, But I mean, there's a lot of
• 33:56
  anecdotal stories beyond Colton Burpo which would suggest that
• 34:00
  miscarried children, you know, do have a soul and they're
• 34:05
  growing up in heaven. And, you know, I mean it, it
• 34:08
  seems like the soul body that leaves our physical body, it
• 34:12
  looks like what we looked like when we were between 25 to 30
• 34:15
  years old. And so you can see, for example,
• 34:19
  you take it again, Colton. But there's many other right
• 34:22
  there. If you go to the University of
• 34:23
  Virginia Medical school, you get plenty of other examples.
• 34:27
  And there are there are files there.
• 34:29
  But the main thing is Colton says, you know, I met, you know,
• 34:35
  a great grandfather. So and so and and they go, Oh
• 34:39
  yeah, well, what did he look like?
• 34:41
  And they show him a picture and, you know, when he was 80 years
• 34:44
  old and died and he goes, no, that's not him.
• 34:47
  So and they go, well, well, what are you looking at?
• 34:50
  Well, he was much younger. So then they get a 30 year old
• 34:54
  picture of, you know, great grandfather so and so that's him
• 34:57
  all right. But they put it into a a whole
• 35:00
  bunch of other pictures and said, pick him out.
• 35:03
  Wow, that guy, that's the guy. And of course, how old is
• 35:08
  Colton? Now oh wow, when did this
• 35:11
  happen? Is there?
• 35:12
  That's a. While back show I bet he's 1415.
• 35:15
  We gotta get Colin on. The show that's that's insane.
• 35:18
  That is, I mean, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
• 35:20
  It's he. His parents wrote a book for him
• 35:22
  called Heaven is for Real. Yes, OK.
• 35:26
  I have I have seen that book and they they made.
• 35:28
  It I think into a movie or something too, but that's just
• 35:31
  one example among many. But the main thing though is,
• 35:35
  yeah, I think, I think there's something to it.
• 35:37
  I think what Echols is saying is, is true that, you know, our,
• 35:41
  our cerebral cortex is meant to be serving a transcendent soul
• 35:50
  and you go, well, what's the mediator of that?
• 35:52
  I mean, how do we avoid mind body dualism?
• 35:56
  I think it's quantum mechanics myself.
• 35:58
  I I think quantum fields are what do the mediation and in my
• 36:03
  book Science at the doorstep to God, I I have a whole chapter on
• 36:07
  this and I look at what Sir John Eccles says about quantum
• 36:10
  mediation as well as David Boehm and and other people like him.
• 36:16
  These are good. David Boehm is a really
• 36:18
  important physicist father I have.
• 36:19
  So many questions of what you just said.
• 36:22
  That was amazing. So where where am I going to
• 36:25
  start here? OK, I never it is so such
• 36:29
  fascinating stuff. It's really truly mind blowing.
• 36:32
  So, OK, the the soul, you're talking about this idea of the
• 36:37
  soul being what is sort of leading the development of the
• 36:39
  brain. Like the brain is designed, the
• 36:40
  human body is designed for the human soul, which is, you know,
• 36:44
  fascinating concept. And that there is evidence for
• 36:46
  the soul and the fact that we have these abilities as humans
• 36:49
  that cannot be traced back to a material source.
• 36:51
  It's not like they're coming from the brain.
• 36:53
  And when we have actual proof of that in terms of these many,
• 36:57
  many, many examples that have been studied in, in academic
• 37:01
  literature and in, in, in the field of science that prove that
• 37:06
  they are not connected. They cannot be connected back to
• 37:08
  the material because otherwise it's completely inexplicable.
• 37:12
  How? Consciousness live, run after
• 37:13
  physical death. So here's a.
• 37:15
  Here's one question. The soul, when do you think in
• 37:19
  the case of Jackson, let's go back to the Jackson, the boy
• 37:21
  that was born with anocephaly and he dies at age 4 or five.
• 37:24
  He's non verbal, but he's, you know, interacting with his
• 37:27
  family. A doctor said he was going to
• 37:29
  die shortly after birth. He outlived them.
• 37:31
  He was recommended to be aborted, right, which is what we
• 37:33
  typically do. We abort babies with significant
• 37:36
  disabilities anyways. Why in his case did he not
• 37:41
  possess the the, you know, special soul like abilities to
• 37:47
  oh he. Possessed them, he just couldn't
• 37:49
  manifest them through his physical body.
• 37:53
  Because it is the physical brain that mediates what I would call
• 37:59
  the soul, this consciousness which can survive bodily death.
• 38:04
  It's the the brain that mediates that consciousness that can
• 38:08
  survive bodily death. With the central.
• 38:10
  Nervous are you saying? That that Jackson and really any
• 38:14
  person with disabilities where they cannot speak or they can't
• 38:17
  seem to interact, maybe they're even in in some sort of a
• 38:20
  vegetative station. Problem.
• 38:21
  It is not a soul problem but what I but.
• 38:24
  Soul is there, but are you saying that they can see
• 38:28
  potentially or interact like they are they would like to
• 38:31
  interact with the people around them?
• 38:33
  I believe they have physical incapability of it.
• 38:35
  I believe it. Because I see that people who
• 38:38
  have terminal lucidity actually express these things.
• 38:43
  I mean, they, they basically, you know, have these moments of
• 38:47
  lucidity, but they just can't express it.
• 38:50
  You know, In fact, one case I'm aware of, you know, when I was
• 38:53
  back at Georgetown, you know, the, you know, one of the
• 38:58
  doctors that was working with the severe Alzheimer's patients,
• 39:02
  you know, one of them that was a faculty member from Georgetown
• 39:06
  University, I believe he was a faculty member, but he was a
• 39:10
  faculty member somewhere. And he, he was very important,
• 39:13
  you know, economist and quantitative economist.
• 39:18
  Those guys are generally a very bright people.
• 39:20
  And he basically got, you know, progressively worse Alzheimer's
• 39:26
  and became a non verbal etcetera.
• 39:29
  And then finally, of course, you'd think he was a vegetable.
• 39:33
  Well, you know, he was still there was something still there.
• 39:37
  So they always wanted him to play pin the tail on the donkey
• 39:40
  or something. He didn't want to play pin the
• 39:43
  tail on the donkey. You could just sort of see that,
• 39:47
  you know, people say, oh, he's just obstreperous.
• 39:49
  He's angry. But know that the fact was he he
• 39:53
  didn't want to play. So one of the researchers, a
• 39:55
  friend of mine comes in and he says, you know, you know, we can
• 40:00
  really see that, you know, you're, you're above all this
• 40:02
  and. We want you to really help us
• 40:04
  out on doing some Alzheimer's Research.
• 40:07
  Do, do you kind of understand that?
• 40:09
  Well, you know, it takes forever for them to process this through
• 40:12
  their brain to nod their head or to make a yes or something.
• 40:16
  It could take like 30 minutes, you know, to, to do that.
• 40:20
  But if you're patient enough, then of course, they all muster
• 40:25
  it up and they'll get a yes or they'll get a no.
• 40:28
  Well, at one point, you know, they, they, you know, brought
• 40:33
  him into it and he could actually do you feel like this,
• 40:36
  but, you know, 15 minutes later, yes, no, you know, and so forth.
• 40:43
  So afterwards, this guy brought in from the Dean of Georgetown
• 40:49
  College of Arts and Sciences said, hey, we're giving you an
• 40:53
  award because you've really helped us out to know what's
• 40:56
  going on in the inner mind of of these people who have
• 40:59
  Alzheimer's. And this guy in one second burst
• 41:03
  out crying. What?
• 41:05
  He couldn't say, oh, he understood exactly what this
• 41:12
  fellow was saying to him. We got the award here for you,
• 41:15
  etcetera, etcetera. He could understand it exactly.
• 41:19
  And it hit him so hard that in the horrible condition he was,
• 41:25
  he could still be of use, which is all he wanted.
• 41:30
  And he just instantly burst out crying.
• 41:32
  I'm telling you, there is so much there.
• 41:35
  You, you go into the thing and you, you try to help these
• 41:40
  Alzheimer's patients, right? And you say, oh, they can't
• 41:43
  understand a thing, you know, and, and, but, but they can, you
• 41:48
  know, and sometimes, you know, the if a patient is expressing
• 41:51
  frustration, it's because I'd rather try to do it themselves.
• 41:56
  You know, another really well known case, you know, the guy's
• 41:59
  trying to help his wife and put on the makeup for her and brush
• 42:02
  her hair and do. But the wife didn't like the way
• 42:05
  the husband was doing it. And basically she was
• 42:09
  frustrated, you know, because she could see that he was doing
• 42:13
  a lousy job. And so, you know, you know, the
• 42:16
  frustration was there. But once the the researcher got
• 42:19
  in there and said, well, you know, you seem frustrated.
• 42:23
  I'm going to wait here all day for you.
• 42:25
  I don't care. You know, you just take your
• 42:28
  time. But are you frustrated, you
• 42:31
  know, with what's going on? Your husband's kind of doing
• 42:34
  this makeup not so well. And finally 15 minutes later,
• 42:39
  yes. And of course, how would they be
• 42:44
  able to process that? Are you saying, Father Spitzer,
• 42:47
  that because of their condition of Alzheimer's, their ability
• 42:51
  to, they know? Yes, immediately.
• 42:53
  Yes, they are their soul, but it's verbal.
• 42:55
  Production. So the soul.
• 42:57
  That's the problem. The soul, which is the actual
• 42:59
  mind of the person, yes, not the brain.
• 43:01
  The mind is the soul. That is correct.
• 43:03
  They can hear it and they can say because they have physical
• 43:05
  ears, they can say. Yes, understand it.
• 43:07
  Yes, but they can't. Respond because their brain
• 43:10
  function connecting to their speech is slowed down.
• 43:13
  That is correct. So in other words, it's the
• 43:15
  brain that's media deviating it to the central nervous system
• 43:18
  into their speech. Well, the brain's got a problem,
• 43:21
  you know, And so in the case of terminal lucidity, we're trying
• 43:25
  to understand it, You know, why is it that people become so
• 43:29
  lucid? It's almost like their soul is
• 43:32
  directly connecting with their central nervous system without
• 43:36
  the brain in between for that last hour before they die.
• 43:41
  And so we, it's so hard to explain.
• 43:43
  Maybe the soul is trying to leave the brain, but he has not
• 43:47
  yet left the central nervous system through the lower brain.
• 43:52
  I mean, we don't, we just do not know.
• 43:55
  But something weird is happening.
• 43:58
  And in the case of these terminal lucidic, I mean the
• 44:02
  hydrocephalic patients with the normal Iqs, I mean, it's, it's
• 44:06
  bizarre, you know, I mean, normally the brain is needed to,
• 44:12
  to mediate to the central nervous system.
• 44:14
  So at least a good chunk of the lower brain is needed.
• 44:18
  So how in the world is, is that occurring?
• 44:22
  But we just don't know everything yet.
• 44:25
  But we do know that we probably very much do have a soul body.
• 44:29
  That soul body is self-conscious, it's rational,
• 44:32
  it feels emotion, it's processing transcendental ideas.
• 44:36
  I mean, religious ideas are prolific in the state of
• 44:40
  terminal lucidity where they come back and talk about God or
• 44:43
  talk about religion or talk about a religious song or
• 44:46
  something of that nature. So, you know that there's really
• 44:50
  a whole lot here that I would say is very good evidence of a
• 44:55
  trans physical soul beyond, you know, the mere functioning of
• 45:01
  the brain. And like I said, you know, so
• 45:04
  many of the researchers just say when you see this person doing
• 45:09
  XY or Z, you cannot even entertain euthanasia.
• 45:15
  Again, it's just impossible that you should euthanize or in the
• 45:19
  case of what you're talking about, abort.
• 45:21
  You know this person because there's still a person with a
• 45:25
  soul, even though they can't get the physical brain to mediate it
• 45:31
  because of a genetic defect or hydrocephalus or something else.
• 45:35
  Is it? Is it?
• 45:36
  Also father a lack of development, though in the case
• 45:38
  of like a child in the womb, their nervous system is not
• 45:42
  developed at a certain gestational age.
• 45:44
  That's that's. Correct too.
• 45:46
  So what? What?
• 45:46
  Are you saying are the implication here is that
• 45:49
  insolment happens insolment? Happens at concept at.
• 45:53
  Conception at fertilization. So the single cell embryo has a
• 45:56
  soul which is ultimately the mind of that embryo, helping it
• 45:59
  develop. And it develops rapidly of
• 46:01
  course I I believe. That that's the case because you
• 46:04
  know that the human zygote, the single celled zygote is, is, is
• 46:08
  basically going to be not just the unity, but the origin of
• 46:13
  every cell in that person's body throughout the rest of his or
• 46:17
  her life. So in, in other words, it, it,
• 46:21
  it's, it's both the unity and the origin of everyone.
• 46:24
  This is like a super totipotent cell.
• 46:27
  But the bizarre thing is it's the totipotent cell which keeps
• 46:30
  the whole rest of the body together in its interactive
• 46:33
  configuration. And, and so there's something
• 46:37
  there, you know, that a soul could, as it were, connect with,
• 46:43
  and that is this super totipotent zygotic soul.
• 46:48
  So I mean, I mean zygotic form. So, you know, the, you know, the
• 46:55
  body does have to develop inside the womb and then, you know,
• 47:00
  after, you know, birth and things of that nature.
• 47:03
  And of course the nervous system continues to develop well after
• 47:07
  birth. But at the very same time, I
• 47:10
  mean every single thing which is substantially human is already
• 47:15
  there at the single celled embryo state.
• 47:18
  Everything that is a substantially whole human being
• 47:22
  because the whole genetic code is there, complete genome plus
• 47:26
  the totipotent cell, which is the origin of every single cell
• 47:30
  in that person's body throughout the rest of their lives, as well
• 47:33
  as the unity of that cell. It is a self determining cell.
• 47:37
  It's a multiplying cell. You know that that is self
• 47:43
  propelling and and that's what a person like Sir Sir John Eccles
• 47:48
  would believe that, you know, that connection between the
• 47:52
  trans physical soul and the the body which is developing through
• 47:59
  the genome and the todepotent cell are already in an
• 48:02
  inextricable union. So that the soul is influencing
• 48:06
  the body that's being developed or drawing it towards its
• 48:12
  proficiency. So you know, oddly enough, when
• 48:15
  you see a little baby sometimes and you go that guy's got a
• 48:18
  personality already. Really.
• 48:21
  Do you think it's just genetics, epigenetics or is there really
• 48:26
  something there? Is there something, as it were,
• 48:30
  the soul, like a soul that already has a kind of series of
• 48:35
  attributes to it in in a? Sense then you you we could say
• 48:40
  there's and it's a I'm curious your thoughts on this.
• 48:42
  The child, including the child in the womb, including the
• 48:45
  embryonic single cell child. You know the first moment of
• 48:50
  human that individual human beings existence has a soul and
• 48:56
  it it has, yes, a self-awareness that it cannot express yet.
• 49:00
  It cannot express it that is correct, but it has a.
• 49:03
  Self-awareness. Yes.
• 49:05
  And the way that it expresses it is what I call natural empathy.
• 49:11
  In other words, the minute you have some form of self
• 49:14
  consciousness, you go, well, there's no expressed
• 49:18
  articulation of love. Duh.
• 49:20
  I mean, of course, there's no articulation of love, but is
• 49:23
  there some kind of what I would call primordial love that is
• 49:29
  present in that single celled zygote?
• 49:34
  And the answer is I, I believe so.
• 49:36
  I think that's what makes abortion so horribly painful,
• 49:40
  right? You know, Priscilla Coleman's,
• 49:44
  you know, huge study that says what 81% of women who have an
• 49:49
  abortion do have a much higher rate of, well, let's say
• 49:55
  emotional psychological challenges throughout their
• 49:59
  lives, including a four times higher incidence of suicide, 2.5
• 50:03
  times higher incidence of suicidal contemplation, a 1.4
• 50:08
  times increase in depression and anxiety, and, and a two times
• 50:13
  increase in substance abuse. And you say, well, why?
• 50:17
  Why would that be? Because when you have an
• 50:20
  abortion, if I am correct, that you know, anytime you have a
• 50:26
  self consciousness, even though there's no rational, you know,
• 50:30
  expression of it at the time when you have self consciousness
• 50:35
  already. Self consciousness is
• 50:38
  empathetically in relationship with other self consciousnesses.
• 50:43
  We are not pure autonomous beings.
• 50:46
  Our form of self consciousness, yes, circles back on itself and
• 50:50
  grasps itself, but it's always an, you know, grasping itself in
• 50:54
  relation to another. And the most important other is
• 50:59
  the mom, right? She's the one that you know, and
• 51:03
  I think there is a felt empathy for her with her child and
• 51:09
  there's a felt empathy of her child with her, but it's not an
• 51:13
  expressed, remembered, articulated, you know, empathy.
• 51:18
  It's but it's there none the less.
• 51:21
  And I call it primordial empathy.
• 51:23
  And I think if you radically well eradicate it by an abortion
• 51:31
  and you break off that empathy, it's almost like the scream of
• 51:36
  rejection and pain is, you know, almost like present to the mom.
• 51:43
  So in a in a in a primordial condition, but I think she she
• 51:48
  senses something radical has happened.
• 51:52
  I think what you're saying is so many implications.
• 51:54
  It has implications with regard to abortion.
• 51:57
  You mentioned euthanasia and just the general treatment and,
• 52:01
  and, and approach that we may have to people that don't seem
• 52:05
  fully capable of, you know, communication at the speed with
• 52:09
  which we communicate or, you know, abilities or functions at
• 52:12
  the level of expectations that we have.
• 52:13
  So you, you could be the person, an elderly person that seems to
• 52:17
  have dementia or Alzheimer's in an old persons home, you know,
• 52:20
  in, in a, in a care home who is basically ignored by their
• 52:25
  family because they're just, they don't know where they can't
• 52:28
  recognize us anyways, they don't care anyways.
• 52:32
  Yeah. My, my, my supposition always is
• 52:37
  you better assume that they do, because there is a lot of
• 52:40
  evidence now from terminal lucidity that they do know
• 52:44
  what's going on, that they do have a sense of what people are
• 52:48
  saying. Yes, of course the brain makes
• 52:51
  them look like it looks like they're asleep, or it looks like
• 52:54
  they may be awake, but they don't have a seemingly any eye
• 52:57
  contact that's significant or would indicate some form of
• 53:01
  empathy. That doesn't mean there's no
• 53:04
  empathy, it just means they can't communicate it through
• 53:08
  their body because the brain is not mediating what's going on in
• 53:14
  what I would call the soul in any significant way.
• 53:17
  Look, you know, can they see or hear?
• 53:21
  I'm convinced that they can even if their eyes are closed.
• 53:24
  I'm telling you, when your when your soul body leaves your
• 53:28
  physical body, it can see, it can hear, it can think, it can
• 53:33
  reflect. All of its memories are intact.
• 53:36
  They're perfectly fine in the soul body, even though in the
• 53:40
  Alzheimer's patient, they're terrible, right?
• 53:43
  But not in the soul. There's overlap between memory
• 53:48
  function in the soul and memory function in the brain.
• 53:52
  And by the way, there's a lot of people who are interested in
• 53:55
  this research. It's not just, you know, Samuel
• 53:58
  Parnia who's doing, you know, the big aware study at
• 54:01
  University of Santa Southampton or Doctor Penn Van Lamel and so
• 54:05
  forth. But also you've got Mario Doctor
• 54:08
  Mario Ball regard big, you know, you know, scientist there and
• 54:13
  brain physiologist at University of Arizona and read this book
• 54:17
  Brain wars utterly fascinating by Beauregard and and you can
• 54:22
  see it. But like I said, you know, with
• 54:24
  respect to the abortion thing, you know, you have to be so
• 54:29
  careful. The preciousness of that body.
• 54:31
  Like I said, it's not just a toti potent cell.
• 54:35
  That cell is the origin and unity of every single cell for
• 54:41
  the rest of that person's life. And the genetic code is all of
• 54:45
  the instructions you need to turn that single celled zygote
• 54:50
  into an adult body. Now you say to yourself, well,
• 54:54
  it's still not developed. OK, let's suppose I create a a
• 55:00
  super program to to make the most powerful computer in the
• 55:05
  world, but I still haven't loaded it onto the central
• 55:09
  processing unit yet. And so, you know, you walk into
• 55:13
  my office, you take out my entire, all my hard drives, you
• 55:18
  know, on my, you know that I have where the program is stored
• 55:21
  and you bash them with a hammer. I come back in, I go, what have
• 55:26
  you done? You know, and you go, well, you
• 55:28
  didn't load it up into the CPU yet, so I knew it was just
• 55:30
  completely worthless. You would just be outraged.
• 55:34
  Why do we do that with a single celled human Zygo?
• 55:39
  Everything's there, programs there.
• 55:42
  The apparatus that will give rise to every single cell and
• 55:45
  the unity of every cell is there.
• 55:47
  It's a substantially whole human being.
• 55:51
  Even though it is not fully developed.
• 55:53
  It is. You're not going to add any more
• 55:58
  to that human being biologically than you have right there.
• 56:02
  Yes, you'll add some nutriments, what we call accidents, but
• 56:07
  those nutriments or its growth is not going to make it more
• 56:11
  human. It's just going to make it
• 56:13
  bigger or fatter or, you know, more capable of having a central
• 56:20
  nervous system or whatever. But no, no, it it won't make it
• 56:25
  more human. Every bit of its humanity is
• 56:28
  already there biologically at the single celled stage.
• 56:31
  And I would venture to say if people like Echols are correct,
• 56:37
  that really there's seems to be some form of interaction,
• 56:41
  integration between a soul and a body even at that stage.
• 56:46
  And even if we go further and say that the near death
• 56:50
  experiences where people meet people who died, you know,
• 56:55
  inside the womb after, after two months, like Colton Burpa's
• 57:01
  sister, etcetera, it seems to indicate that, yeah, that that's
• 57:05
  the case. The soul, or what I would call
• 57:08
  the soul body, because it's, it's not just a disembodied self
• 57:11
  consciousness, it, it is self consciousness with all of its
• 57:15
  memories and and so forth. But it's also a, you know, a
• 57:21
  soul body that pretty much looks like the body when it was
• 57:24
  between 25 and 30, except, of course, is not limited by
• 57:27
  physical processes and structures.
• 57:29
  So you can go through a wall or can go through a roof or can
• 57:32
  defy gravity. I think about.
• 57:34
  The the case of Terri Schiavo, Yeah.
• 57:36
  And, you know, she was, she was basically dehydrated and starved
• 57:40
  to death over period of I think it was 10 days.
• 57:44
  And she had been this healthy young woman.
• 57:46
  She had had a stroke of some kind, severe brain damage.
• 57:51
  They claimed she was in a vegetative state that she
• 57:53
  couldn't interact. She was killed in 2005 in
• 57:56
  Florida. And her husband, who moved on
• 57:59
  and I think took up with another woman, you know, he was still
• 58:02
  technically her guardian. And so he got to make her
• 58:05
  medical decisions. And he claimed that she would
• 58:07
  have wanted to not live in this vegetative state.
• 58:09
  So we're going to starve you to death ultimately because you
• 58:11
  can't. I think the Florida law, you can
• 58:14
  administer A lethal injection. It had to be kind of passive
• 58:16
  dying. So because you can literally
• 58:18
  physically feed herself, they were just going to deprive her
• 58:21
  of of food. And so they did.
• 58:24
  And her parents were so deeply heartbroken and enraged.
• 58:30
  Her brother Bobby Scheidler ended up going on and, you know,
• 58:34
  having his own campaign to try to excuse me, Bobby Schindler
• 58:38
  having his own campaign to try to advocate for women like his
• 58:41
  sister. But they said she's still there.
• 58:43
  She's still Terry, even though she can't communicate with us.
• 58:46
  You know, she's sort of a non responsive physically.
• 58:50
  So are you saying that based on what we know about the soul, all
• 58:53
  humans have them. Terry has 1.
• 58:56
  Terry knew Terry was conscious of the fact that her husband
• 59:00
  wanted to kill her, that her parents were there and loving on
• 59:04
  her and that there had been a do not feed order.
• 59:08
  Yeah. Whether she.
• 59:08
  Knew the husband wanted to kill her or not is hard to say if she
• 59:12
  didn't hear that conversation, but if he had been within
• 59:16
  earshot but her parents. Were telling her we don't want
• 59:19
  we want to be able to feed you. I'm so sorry.
• 59:21
  We're we're we're prevented from doing this right.
• 59:23
  So she knew that someone had known that.
• 59:26
  She sure would have. Yeah.
• 59:28
  And then that's my view. Devastating.
• 59:29
  Yeah, I. Think absolutely.
• 59:32
  You say they can't think, they can think.
• 59:34
  I like just like that hydrocephalic math student, you
• 59:37
  know, he's thinking and he doesn't have a physical brain.
• 59:41
  So I think this is going on. I really do think that that soul
• 59:44
  body well, eventually when the physical body dies, right,
• 59:48
  there's a certain level, you know where you have a few
• 59:52
  sputterings of neurons in the lower brain for quite some time,
• 59:55
  but once those die away, pretty much your soul will leave your
• 59:59
  physical body. So there's.
• 1:00:01
  A lot of interesting implications of this.
• 1:00:03
  And as an aside, Father, this is such a fascinating conversation.
• 1:00:06
  We're going to stick with this if it's OK with you, and we'll
• 1:00:09
  have to have you back on aliens because we are doing so much
• 1:00:12
  progress on this topic. But there's a lot of
• 1:00:14
  implications to what what you're saying here.
• 1:00:17
  It's so fascinating. Here's another implication,
• 1:00:20
  organ donation. So when somebody there, there's
• 1:00:24
  all these cases of people who die and they die, it's they have
• 1:00:28
  brain death, right? And then they come back to life,
• 1:00:31
  you know, in, in time organ donation.
• 1:00:35
  What's your take on organ donation And the concern that
• 1:00:38
  organ donation might be done prematurely when the soul has
• 1:00:41
  not left the body and the body might revive?
• 1:00:46
  Well, I have an yeah, I have an organ donor card.
• 1:00:49
  So, you know, I, I, I, I trust the medical establishment to
• 1:00:55
  establish brain death, but I have it very clear that until
• 1:00:58
  I'm established to be brain dead, I would prefer not to have
• 1:01:01
  my organs lifted from me. But I do think, you know, again,
• 1:01:05
  we have to have, you know, very strong definitions of, you know,
• 1:01:10
  when brain death occurs where we can have some empirical.
• 1:01:14
  How how long should brain death be have have transpired for it
• 1:01:19
  to be you think OK to remove organs?
• 1:01:22
  Well, you know, there, there are some, I think pretty objective,
• 1:01:29
  you know, criteria that are established by Ted of a father
• 1:01:34
  of Polshek at the National Catholic Bioethics Institute.
• 1:01:38
  I, I, you know, I'm just going to say I, I'm going to let
• 1:01:41
  somebody like by the TAD do it because, you know, it's that,
• 1:01:46
  you know, make those considerations for me because to
• 1:01:49
  be honest with you, there is so much nuance in this.
• 1:01:53
  But when can we be sure that, you know, those sputterings of
• 1:01:57
  neurons are past the point of no return?
• 1:02:01
  I think we have some conservative criteria that can
• 1:02:05
  establish it. And I would certainly, you know,
• 1:02:09
  like to specify that that's what I would want done for.
• 1:02:11
  Me. Same, right?
• 1:02:13
  Yeah. And so this idea of soul body
• 1:02:15
  separation at death, which is death, Yeah, right.
• 1:02:19
  I mean, the sort of philosophical definition of
• 1:02:21
  death is soul body separation. Well, yes.
• 1:02:24
  And of course, you can resuscitate a patient if it's
• 1:02:27
  just, for example, a heart matter or a drowning or
• 1:02:31
  something of that nature. And so soul body separation can
• 1:02:34
  happen sometimes when there is still a few sputterings of
• 1:02:39
  neurons in, like I said, in the lower brain.
• 1:02:42
  So you know that because of the heart attack, you know, it's so
• 1:02:47
  sudden that the soul body separation almost happens, you
• 1:02:52
  know, right away. So, you know, for all intents
• 1:02:55
  and purposes, in the near death experiences, once resuscitation
• 1:03:00
  measures are taken, that soul goes literally, they might be at
• 1:03:04
  the brink of heaven, talking to their relatives, being, you
• 1:03:08
  know, completely engulfed by a loving white light.
• 1:03:10
  They identify as Christ or something, and then bingo,
• 1:03:14
  they're right back. So they go through the dark
• 1:03:16
  tunnel into the light that's beyond, and then all of a sudden
• 1:03:20
  they're pulled back. And that also includes people
• 1:03:23
  who have a dark experience. So about 80% of adults more or
• 1:03:28
  less have a very good experience.
• 1:03:30
  About 20% of adults have a very dark experience.
• 1:03:34
  But you see, we only know this from 20% of the adults because
• 1:03:40
  only 20% of adults who have, you know, undergo clinical death
• 1:03:44
  have a near death experience. Now the rate is much higher in
• 1:03:48
  children. If children undergo clinical
• 1:03:50
  death, I think it's like 60% of them have some form of near
• 1:03:55
  death experience. Why do you think that?
• 1:03:56
  Is. Because I don't think there's
• 1:04:00
  much to be, I mean there's certain things that need to be
• 1:04:04
  determined in the case of an adult, things that need to be
• 1:04:07
  worked out before maybe judgment can occur or things that need
• 1:04:13
  maybe there's a purgative state that's going to take place or
• 1:04:16
  something of that nature. So you know, adults typically,
• 1:04:21
  maybe it's just their memory, they don't remember it as well
• 1:04:25
  because maybe they have a higher incidence of dark experience as
• 1:04:28
  children who have near death experiences almost 100% have
• 1:04:31
  good ones. Whereas if you get to adulthood,
• 1:04:35
  it's an 8020 split. Wow.
• 1:04:38
  And so. And when you say they have a.
• 1:04:39
  Dark experience of near death. It's like a hellish experience.
• 1:04:42
  Like they would be going to hell.
• 1:04:44
  Yeah, a lot of them are hellish with demonic beings, but some of
• 1:04:49
  them are very lonely. A real sense of loneliness, like
• 1:04:53
  an existential. Isolation and is that because
• 1:04:56
  theoretically against talking spiritually now in terms of well
• 1:04:59
  the soul is spiritual, but talking in terms of you know our
• 1:05:02
  faith Christianity. That's because perhaps they
• 1:05:05
  don't. They didn't want to be with God
• 1:05:08
  and so upon death, maybe their final choice of I don't want God
• 1:05:11
  who is love, then their near death experience is like this
• 1:05:14
  radical existential isolation which is ultimately hellish
• 1:05:17
  because they're rejecting love and God I.
• 1:05:20
  Agree, I agree. I mean, it could be that might
• 1:05:23
  be the the scenario in question, but it's so hard to say because
• 1:05:28
  you know, we don't have data. We just know one thing, people
• 1:05:31
  who have hellish experiences, when they come back, vast
• 1:05:34
  majority reform their life they want to become.
• 1:05:37
  Christians. Yeah, in a hurry.
• 1:05:40
  And by the way, Christ is the only religious figure.
• 1:05:43
  If you study the, there's a big, huge archive of near death
• 1:05:46
  experiences with several thousand of them in the, that
• 1:05:52
  you know, you can actually research them.
• 1:05:55
  It's it's called the the Near Death Experience Databank.
• 1:06:00
  And you can actually go there and look at things.
• 1:06:03
  But anyway, though about 20% of the time people identify Jesus
• 1:06:08
  Christ in some bodily form in their near death experience,
• 1:06:14
  they don't, I mean less than 1% of the time, every other
• 1:06:17
  religious figure. So it's like Muhammad or or
• 1:06:22
  vision or whatever Buddha. So there's but almost 20% of the
• 1:06:28
  time Jesus is identified and then Jesus additionally is
• 1:06:31
  identified as the loving white. Like sometimes they just call a
• 1:06:35
  loving white like God, sometimes Jesus.
• 1:06:38
  But the point is it's definitely very much associated with
• 1:06:42
  Christianity. And I've got some of those
• 1:06:45
  things footnoted again in my book Science at the Doorstep to
• 1:06:47
  God Father, What do you? Think about personality
• 1:06:50
  disorders and people who have what you could label a
• 1:06:55
  personality disorder or they have a mental health condition.
• 1:06:59
  And this you could argue maybe is tied to the body, not to the
• 1:07:05
  soul. It's not a defect of the soul.
• 1:07:06
  It's because of the soul has no defect, right?
• 1:07:09
  Except it is wounded by concupiscence original sin or
• 1:07:13
  can is is a personality disorder?
• 1:07:15
  Does that live in the soul well? Actually, it's very hard to say
• 1:07:20
  honestly. You know, a personality disorder
• 1:07:23
  could be a combination, honestly, sometimes
• 1:07:27
  schizophrenia really is a bodily problem.
• 1:07:32
  So for example, if you if you're delusional, right, or you know,
• 1:07:36
  you're seeing the snakes going up the wall or something of that
• 1:07:40
  nature, Nobody wants to see snakes going up the wall that
• 1:07:43
  are contrary to fact and so forth.
• 1:07:46
  But nevertheless, these things do happen and people really do
• 1:07:50
  believe they're there and, you know, they react and they can
• 1:07:52
  react and do terrible things. You know, some people are
• 1:07:56
  dissociative, some people have what appears to be a personality
• 1:07:59
  disorder and so forth. And you look at this and can it
• 1:08:04
  be explained biologically? Yes.
• 1:08:07
  There's a lot of the time when you can maybe overcome it with,
• 1:08:13
  you know, something that will change the brain chemistry or
• 1:08:18
  the hormonal chemistry. But sometimes, you know, it's
• 1:08:23
  just, it's elusive. So you wonder, you know, could
• 1:08:26
  could maybe a decision to do something evil and which would
• 1:08:30
  be a more of a soul causation, Could that affect or even
• 1:08:37
  exacerbate schizophrenia or a personality disorder or
• 1:08:43
  dissociative personality or whatever?
• 1:08:46
  And and the the answer, I think so yes.
• 1:08:49
  So like a. Sociopath as an example, or like
• 1:08:52
  a, a, a malignant narcissist. And there's just, you know,
• 1:08:56
  they're not it's not tied to a, a medical condition.
• 1:08:58
  There's nothing wrong with their brain.
• 1:09:00
  Their brain scans might look like anybody else's.
• 1:09:02
  Yeah, you have to. Check all three causes though,
• 1:09:05
  because it could be a environmental 'cause as well as
• 1:09:10
  a a physical cause. So if the mother does not love
• 1:09:14
  the child for the first few months of the child's existence
• 1:09:18
  and just leaves them alone and doesn't care and doesn't love,
• 1:09:22
  rejects the child's empathy and gives no empathy to the child,
• 1:09:27
  you got an odds on chance of having a sociopath.
• 1:09:30
  Much more so than a child who did not have that terrible
• 1:09:34
  neglectful experience. So it's so sociopathic behavior
• 1:09:39
  can be a result of, you know, terrible things that a parent
• 1:09:45
  could do, a lack of nurture. At a very a lack.
• 1:09:48
  Of nurture And is that because? It's bending the the physical
• 1:09:53
  brain or it's and and sort of the psychological connection
• 1:09:56
  between kind of our emotional experience and expression with
• 1:09:59
  the brain. Or is it literally disfiguring
• 1:10:01
  the soul of that child because that child who deserves the love
• 1:10:05
  of the parent aesthetics enduring abuse?
• 1:10:08
  And it could be. Both so it could disfigure the
• 1:10:11
  soul because a child is meant to be nurtured and meant to be
• 1:10:15
  loved. We are not meant to be in
• 1:10:17
  isolation. And that very much, you know,
• 1:10:20
  the receptivity of of that love is important to the soul and
• 1:10:26
  important to the way that that soul makes choices.
• 1:10:29
  Now you say, well wait a minute, what happens?
• 1:10:32
  You know that sociopath dies and he murdered 3 people and did
• 1:10:37
  terrible things and what would that amount to?
• 1:10:41
  Well at the end of the day, in God's mind, you know, if the
• 1:10:45
  parents caused this bending as you might put it, or if you know
• 1:10:50
  this is a traceable to a physiological problem or both,
• 1:10:54
  then at the end of the day it's really he didn't choose to be a
• 1:10:58
  sociopath. He sort of goes into it because
• 1:11:03
  everything that should happen to him normally in his emotional
• 1:11:07
  psychological development is warped, and it's warped into
• 1:11:12
  thinking that life is lonely and uncaring and that love doesn't
• 1:11:17
  exist. Well, God can cure that in 1 1/2
• 1:11:20
  seconds. You get to heaven and he can
• 1:11:23
  blast you with love. That'll reorient your soul
• 1:11:27
  circuitry, if I can call it that.
• 1:11:29
  And makes a metaphor. But I mean that the point is
• 1:11:31
  pretty clear, you know, that person could be in heaven,
• 1:11:35
  whereas another person could definitely choose almost a
• 1:11:39
  sociopathology because of some narcissistic desire, right?
• 1:11:45
  Or maybe this? Habitual self indulgence.
• 1:11:48
  I mean, I think that's again. A bad habit?
• 1:11:50
  Of but even that a lot of times will be rooted in childhood
• 1:11:54
  development. That's correct not to blame our.
• 1:11:56
  Parents for everything bad we don't.
• 1:11:58
  Know obviously, but. We have free will, but you're
• 1:12:02
  well, habit can. Be an impediment to free will.
• 1:12:04
  Yes, that's a good point. Yes.
• 1:12:06
  No. If you're not willfully.
• 1:12:08
  Choosing the thing because you're so habituated to it,
• 1:12:10
  correct? Right.
• 1:12:11
  I mean, you're, you've formed such an intransigent habit,
• 1:12:15
  right, that that essentially it's very hard for you to break
• 1:12:19
  out of it and out of the primary associations that you have with
• 1:12:24
  people of from the time you're an infant.
• 1:12:27
  I have to ask. You father about the with this
• 1:12:30
  idea of soul mind, you know, soul body, excuse me,
• 1:12:33
  connection. And is it fair to be calling the
• 1:12:35
  soul the mind? Yes.
• 1:12:37
  OK, so yeah, absolutely the mind.
• 1:12:39
  Body connection the soul. Body, connection, soul.
• 1:12:42
  Mind and and self, you know, like self consciousness, they're
• 1:12:46
  all different ways of looking at the same reality.
• 1:12:50
  I know you're. Familiar with IVGIVG?
• 1:12:52
  We had Doctor Aaron Cariani in the podcast recently to talk
• 1:12:55
  about this. And so I'm curious how you see
• 1:12:59
  the soul when it comes to creating embryos out of
• 1:13:04
  potentially skin cells. You know, that you, you create,
• 1:13:07
  excuse me, you know, a sperm cell and an egg cell from skin
• 1:13:10
  cells. And then you can create a human
• 1:13:13
  embryo from those. Ultimately it's sourced from
• 1:13:16
  someone's skin cells. So your mother, your biological
• 1:13:19
  mother is actually your biological father in this
• 1:13:23
  technology potentially, yeah, I mean.
• 1:13:26
  Again, of course, I think that's totally ethically wrong in every
• 1:13:31
  imaginable way. But let's suppose you're
• 1:13:34
  somebody goes through with it. I mean, it's God's choice
• 1:13:39
  whether to to give a soul to such a being.
• 1:13:43
  Now basically, remember, you have to take that skin cell and
• 1:13:47
  you have to reduce it back to, you know, what's called a
• 1:13:52
  totipotent or at least a very pluripotent condition, right?
• 1:13:58
  So you just can't take a skin cell and do it.
• 1:14:02
  You're going to have to do a kind of a reduction, a very
• 1:14:04
  complex reduction to bring it back to a totipotent cell.
• 1:14:08
  Then of course if if you did something like that and try to
• 1:14:13
  create an embryo, well, if God chose to insole it, you could
• 1:14:18
  say it's it's a person. And how would we?
• 1:14:20
  Know if God is insoling this embryo created via IVG because.
• 1:14:26
  Honestly, if it didn't have a soul it would not be
• 1:14:29
  self-conscious, transcendental, which includes moral, and it
• 1:14:33
  certainly wouldn't be abstractly rational.
• 1:14:36
  So you're saying? The way we would know for sure
• 1:14:39
  it had a soul theoretically is when by its behavior later
• 1:14:44
  later. So theoretically.
• 1:14:46
  Again, just pitfalling here, let's say IVG starts becoming
• 1:14:49
  used more often or different forms of sort of exploitation of
• 1:14:55
  the human genome with inputting animal genomes and like just
• 1:15:00
  mixing mix and matching genetic codes and kind of creating this,
• 1:15:03
  you know, potentially Frankenstein like creature.
• 1:15:05
  You're saying the way we would know whether or not it was in
• 1:15:09
  sold with a human soul was by how it behaved later.
• 1:15:12
  Yep, that's. Correct, but what if it?
• 1:15:14
  Has a disability like you're cuz we're earlier we're talking
• 1:15:18
  about it could. Have a disability?
• 1:15:19
  The disability. Is by nature of the exploitation
• 1:15:22
  of its genome. Then you, then you.
• 1:15:23
  Could not make that determination because the
• 1:15:26
  physical disability would hide whatever soul or his mental
• 1:15:30
  disability or her mental disability would hide the fact
• 1:15:34
  that. So we just wouldn't know.
• 1:15:34
  We wouldn't know. And then in that.
• 1:15:36
  Case it's probably It would be at most ethical to assume that
• 1:15:39
  it does have a soul. It would always.
• 1:15:41
  Do so even even if you did the most abusive kinds of things
• 1:15:47
  once you've created the Frankenstein as it were, you're
• 1:15:51
  going to have to treat that Frankenstein if they're
• 1:15:53
  manifesting abstract and self-conscious and
• 1:15:56
  transcendental, you know mental activity.
• 1:16:00
  You have to treat them as if they were and sold and
• 1:16:05
  straighten out or find out later from God.
• 1:16:08
  You know, but I think you should never take a chance.
• 1:16:11
  I I I don't think you should ever even if you do this through
• 1:16:14
  a horribly abusive process. You know, you, you should never
• 1:16:18
  start killing beings or thinking because I put together the
• 1:16:23
  strange components that led to this hybrid or whatever, that
• 1:16:27
  now I have the right to kill them like I own them because if
• 1:16:31
  God isn't sold that individual, you don't own them or to
• 1:16:34
  mistreat. Them, I mean, Or mistreat them.
• 1:16:36
  The possibilities of mistreatment here are wild.
• 1:16:40
  Yeah, developing them and taking their organs.
• 1:16:43
  Using them as some. Sort of slave.
• 1:16:45
  I mean horrific options. Yeah, horribly unethical and any
• 1:16:50
  kind of embryonic transplants are, you know, creating embryo
• 1:16:54
  farms to basically produce, you know, stem cells and other kinds
• 1:17:00
  of things. It's it's just unconscionable.
• 1:17:03
  I mean, we, we just don't have the right there.
• 1:17:05
  These are real beings, are real human beings.
• 1:17:08
  I think, you know, honestly the all the insights are getting
• 1:17:10
  from the near death experience research and the terminal
• 1:17:13
  acidity research. I think all these things, you
• 1:17:15
  know, plus what what's happening now in philosophy of mind, you
• 1:17:20
  know, in the whole area of self consciousness and, and, and, and
• 1:17:24
  consciousness itself. You know, even from the
• 1:17:26
  analytical philosophers, you know, like a Chalmers or even a
• 1:17:31
  Nagel who professes to be somehow, you know, an atheist or
• 1:17:36
  something, but just can't, you know, say that physical reality
• 1:17:40
  has got to have some component of mind in it from the
• 1:17:43
  inception, right? So you look around and things
• 1:17:46
  are happening now or you know, personhood is very much
• 1:17:51
  associated with mind, selfhood, self consciousness and
• 1:17:55
  transcendental awareness. And you know, if you see a being
• 1:18:00
  like so if you discover an alien, you know, and you see an
• 1:18:03
  alien that has transcendental consciousness and has a sense of
• 1:18:08
  conscience like morality based on principle, has a high degree
• 1:18:13
  of mathematical intelligence and and logical intelligence and and
• 1:18:17
  is self aware. You got to say God gave that
• 1:18:22
  being a soul. We we better catechize and
• 1:18:24
  baptize them. I mean, you just have to because
• 1:18:29
  you know other. To do otherwise would be to act
• 1:18:32
  against what I would consider to be reasonable and responsible
• 1:18:37
  moral belief. That that being is in soul by
• 1:18:41
  God. That being is meant for
• 1:18:45
  eternity. That being is meant to be
• 1:18:48
  respected by us with the very respect that God expects us to
• 1:18:53
  be treated with, and all humanity in the condition that
• 1:18:58
  we are in before our eternal life begins.
• 1:19:02
  Other pits are. We're going to have to do a Part
• 1:19:04
  2 on aliens because we, we, we and, and there's so much more I
• 1:19:09
  think even to explore on the soul.
• 1:19:11
  I it's just, it's incredibly mind blowing stuff.
• 1:19:14
  Tons. So yeah.
• 1:19:16
  What would your recommendation be for folks listening as a
• 1:19:20
  starting place? And perhaps it's one of your
• 1:19:22
  books? You've mentioned several
• 1:19:23
  different researchers, scientists, but who would you
• 1:19:27
  what? What book would you recommend
• 1:19:28
  for someone who wants to explore there's?
• 1:19:31
  An Ignatius Press book called The Souls Upward Yearning that I
• 1:19:36
  wrote a while back. I would definitely look at that
• 1:19:40
  one. There's another one if you just
• 1:19:42
  want maybe a single chapter that puts together the case very
• 1:19:47
  proficiently and then talks about mind soul problems, the
• 1:19:51
  problem of freedom, and also transcendental awareness and all
• 1:19:55
  of these mathematical intelligence, etcetera.
• 1:19:58
  Take a look at chapters 4-5 and six of Science at the Doorstep
• 1:20:06
  to God. So that would be in my writing.
• 1:20:09
  I have a ton of footnotes there to all this research so.
• 1:20:14
  You know, some people may want to just look at Sam Parnia
• 1:20:17
  stuffs. Samuel Parnia is the University
• 1:20:20
  of South South Hampton aware study.
• 1:20:23
  You might take a look at Mario Beauregard's Brain Wars just for
• 1:20:27
  a little bit of a sample. Why?
• 1:20:29
  Physiological explanations and physicalist explanations simply
• 1:20:35
  can explain what's going on in near death experiences.
• 1:20:39
  That that's a a very good thing. Another area that's that's very
• 1:20:43
  good. This the whole area, you know,
• 1:20:46
  David Chalmers, Sir John Echols that I was talking about, you
• 1:20:51
  know, even as I said, Thomas Nagel, you know, to look at
• 1:20:56
  those areas too. So there's lots of stuff.
• 1:20:59
  I have some free stuff if you go to majacenter.com,
• 1:21:03
  magiscenter.com, look at an article, free article called
• 1:21:09
  Science medicine and near death experiences that could give you
• 1:21:14
  a, a real a booster Reno. Look at the chapters too, on
• 1:21:19
  transcendental desires, Chapter 4 of my book, The Soul's upward
• 1:21:23
  yearning. So there's a there's a lot of
• 1:21:27
  research out there in this area and look at the University of
• 1:21:31
  Virginia, a medical school department of perceptual study
• 1:21:35
  stuff, especially Bruce Grayson's and Michael Naam's
• 1:21:39
  things that are on terminal lucidity.
• 1:21:43
  I take a look too at Loeben Lorber studies on intelligence
• 1:21:49
  and hydrophalic patients. So there's a lot of places, but
• 1:21:52
  it's all footnote in it in my book, The Science of Doorstep to
• 1:21:55
  God and also in the Souls upward Journey.
• 1:22:00
  You're amazing. Father's son, Sir.
• 1:22:03
  You're you're the. You're you're truly an
• 1:22:05
  encyclopedia. It is.
• 1:22:07
  It always amazes me when I get to talk to you.
• 1:22:09
  It's it's truly wonderful. Thank you.
• 1:22:12
  Thank you for exploring this topic with me today.
• 1:22:14
  And I know our listeners love this and we're going to go, we
• 1:22:17
  got to do round two on UFOs and aliens because the implications
• 1:22:21
  of what we're discussing, I think, you know, there are
• 1:22:23
  implications for aliens without a doubt.
• 1:22:25
  I mean, we do, we do it. Promise to come back.
• 1:22:27
  Soon. We'll do that next, OK.
• 1:22:29
  Absolutely. Thank you.
• 1:22:31
  SO. Much, Father.
• 1:22:32
  OK. Thank you.
• 1:22:33
  And a huge thank. You to EWTN Eternal Word
• 1:22:36
  Television Network, which is the largest religious broadcaster in
• 1:22:39
  the world. You can get access to Lila Rose
• 1:22:41
  Show episodes 24 hours in advance at ewtn.com.
• 1:22:46
  Slash on demand and a big thank you to EWTN and their incredible
• 1:22:49
  mission to bring souls to Jesus.