Latest / The Steve Harvey Morning Show / Storytelling: Discusses how Sylvia Moy helped save Stevie Wonder’s career when he risked being dropped by Motown.

Transcript

Storytelling: Discusses how Sylvia Moy helped save Stevie Wonder’s career when he risked being dropped by Motown. · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to my show.
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  Speaker 2: I'm Rashon McDonald, a host of Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
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  Speaker 2: get this podcast started. My guess is a veteran journalist, educator,
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  Speaker 2: and author of the book It's No Wonder, The Life
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and Times of Motowns legendary songwriter Sylvia Moore. Her research
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: interests focus on the intersections of the role of the
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: media and education, Black popular culture, biographical and historic. Please
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: welcome to the Money Making Conversations. You know she covers legends,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: but she is a legend. Doctor Margina Christian, How you
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: doing Margina.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Hello, How are you? Thanks for having me?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna tell you something.
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  Speaker 2: When this came across my desk, Doctor Christian, I saw Ebony,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I saw Chet, I just I saw, I saw Motown.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I said, I got an interview this because this is
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: my rain, this is this is where I come from.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: How did you get involved with these historical brands that
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: somehow disappeared today?
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Oh wow?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Well, my in regards to Johnson Publishing Companies once housed
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Ebony and Jet Magazine founded by John Ah Johnson, or
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: as I said in my book that I wrote a
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: twenty eighteen Empire the house to Johnny's Johnson built. I
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: started working for that company's specifically Jet Magazine, which was
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: the weekly publication, in nineteen ninety five, and then as
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: time progressed and we had re orgs and changing up
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: powers and positions, in two thousand and nine, I was
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: moved to Ebony Magazine. However, during my tenure at the company,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: when Ebony and Jet was under Johnson Publishing, I worked
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: at the company from ninety five into twenty fourteen, and
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: I not only worked with Ebony and Jet, but also,
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: if you remember Ebny Man, I also wrote the history
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: and covered all the stories for the Ebony Fashion Affairs Show.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: So I worked also with Eunice W.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Johnson, and so my history as a writer started back
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: in Saint Louis, but I had my hand on the pulse.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: I was doing all of the entertainment, and I felt
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: like I reached the pinnacle, and so I felt like,
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: what better place than to be next to St. Louis
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: in Chicago. Johnson Publishing Company John H. Johnson, Ebanie and Jet.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: These were brands I grew up on, and so I
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: was very fortunate that I had a portfolio, as we
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: called them back then, clips. I had a book with
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: all my clips and all the interviews and people I did.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: And I remember John H. Johnson was impressed with my
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: interview with Bobby Brow. So I owe it all to
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Bobby Brah because I remember when he was the king
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: of stage and I'm being very honest, just like she
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: was being very honest because those of us who know
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: no that that's where it was. And so he saw
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: that story and was impressed. But of course he saw
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: my other stories as well, and he said, I think
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Jet Magazine will be the better fit for you because
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: you like to interview the stars and the celebrities, and
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: he said, Ebony, you gotta understand this about rank. He said,
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: those who've been at the magazine a little bit longer
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: will be the wants to interview all the big names.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: He said, But with Jet, I think you'll be able
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: to do more and have more flexibility.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: So that's why I'm gonna move you.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Because when I applied, I actually wanted to write for
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: Ebedy and he put me with Jet. And it was
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: interesting because my interview was with Linda Johnson Rice.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: But mister Johnson came in and took over the.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Interview so well as a man who understands, and he
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: took it over and placed you where he felt you better, sir.
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  Speaker 1: Plus he understood the politics.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: He understood the politics, and I appreciated his honesty with
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: that because a lot of times people would have just
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: put me there and I wouldn't have ever did what
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I wanted.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: But he saw my passion and he also saw my gift.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Look, she's an interviewing the big names. I mean back then,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: what we see you know what Usher is? That was
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Bobby Brown? And Usher said I wanted to be Bobby
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: Brown at one point. That was the ultimate entertainer, and
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: so if you could get to him and do an interview,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: that was a big deal. You know, just hit after
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: hit after hit. I want to Grammy. There's so many
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: wonderful things. So to have full circle moments with him,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Uh and and uh the industry period has just been
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: a blessing.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Let's let's talk about you and you know your female
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: you know, and we know in a world where chauvelin'sic tendencies,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: well they're talking about them today. They were worse back then.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: There were no cameras, restricted barrier. I'm not saying anything
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: bad happened to you. I'm just saying, but there are issues.
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  Speaker 2: You're an attractive woman. How did you deal with those
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: issues or how did you advise people in your business
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: how to deal with those issues and trying to rise
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: up the rank or getting respected for your work first
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  Speaker 2: and your looks being ignored.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: Oh wow, that's a wonderful question. I don't know if
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  Speaker 4: you ever had the good fortune of visiting Johnson Publishing
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Company at eight twenty South Michigan doing this heyday, but
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: there was It was known and had a reputation for
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: having some of the most beautiful women who worked at
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: that company, and.
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  Speaker 3: I was one of many beautiful.
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  Speaker 4: Women, you know, and and and and and so here's
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  Speaker 4: the thing. I was a writer, and there were entertainers
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  Speaker 4: who came through.
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  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 4: There weren't a lot of men at the company. The
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  Speaker 4: women outnumbered the men at Johnson, So I personally didn't
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: have to deal with any type of harassment.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 4: But when when people would come by, you know, they
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: would be flattered or make complimists or or you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: might want to take you out. I never got caught
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: up in it because I was on this side where
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: I saw the reality of what this illusion really was.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: I saw that even though these Queen Latifa once said
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: that you get the fame before the fortune, so I
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: knew many of those people were just like they were
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: regular people.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: And there were people.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: That I got taken by or was really excited to see.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: I remember when Maxwell was just coming out and we
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: were in a meeting, an editorial meeting, and they were like,
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: you know, and I knew he was there, so I
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: was like, I have to be excused to run to
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: the ladies room. I went right over there to say hello,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: and as I was coming by, he just looked and
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: said beautiful and I was just like wow, because it's
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: like he was smooth.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, he was buttery smooth. But back to your
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: initial question, I understood it was work. It was a job,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: and I.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Learned from one of my mentors, Clarence Waldron. He always
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: told me, h, never get it twisted.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: He said.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: It's a business, he said, and it's a he said.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: It's work, he said, But it's friendly business, he said.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: But never mixed the two because he said, very few
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: people are really your friends. And he said, so understand that.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: And I never forgot it, and it helped.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Me to maneuver through.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: But some people, or so I've heard, got caught up
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: in whatever whatever.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: But those are stories for them to share and to tell.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: But it's all about how you handle what it is
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: in the environment that you've been in and how you
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: make it work to your advantage. No one can ever
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: tell you anything about me where they'll say, oh I
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: heard this or that.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: No all respect and people know me, so you know
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: the god sweet people.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Now, you know, cause I got to bring that up
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: because of the fact that I know Clarence Walter. You know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: like when I was managing Steve Harvey. You know, that's
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: how you got on the cover if you didn't. And
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I remember I was on the phone with him several
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: times talking about could Steve get this because it was
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: strategic to get Steve Harvey on the cover that Jet
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: magazine that laid on the table or the actual Ebony magazine.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: If you got an Ebon magazine, that.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Was the super wow, you know, but you getting no
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Jet magazine because it was weekly, that was important, especially when.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: You're the fall season.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: They featured the various television shows that featured black talent,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and Steve Harvey was one of the bigger ones. Plus
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: he had showtime at the Apollo as well, And so
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I would have to say that Essence and Eboney played
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a major role, especially building Steve Harvey's brand in the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: black community because Ebony and Jet edis heyday was the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: black community?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, I.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: Mean before social media there was Jet and so we
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: to get in Ebony, to get in Jet. Some people
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: said they didn't feel like they made it until they
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: were in Jet magazine, you know. And we had people
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: calling who are television shows tops? Who were upset why
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: isn't my show listed? Well, they only did the major
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: networks like the ABC, CBS, NBC they didn't.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: And we know back then they used to have.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: The WB and all those networks where they would put
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: up in where that's where most of the black.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Shows participants airing black sitcoms exactly.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: So most some of those people were very fortunate to
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: get on the cover, but some of them still wonder, well,
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: why are we not listed in the back? So I'd
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: have to or one of my colleagues, we'd have to
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: explain that these are the shows they put on on
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: it and for whatever reason, it wasn't shows like WB UBN,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: but those people made the cover.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: The Steve Harvey show made the cover.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: And so I also remember, uh, the negotiation for Steve
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: getting on covers because Clarence Cubicle was right in front
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: of mine and I'm looking at that cover right now
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: where Steve had on all black and it was the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: first time he showed his ball head and it was
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: showing how he was fifth and fabulous.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: It was a milestone birthday.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I remember that negotiation because he was like, Okay,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: he's moving from the show, but now he's starting to
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: do his own thing and he even came by the building.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I remember that as well.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Please don't go anywhere.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more money Making Conversations Masterclass. Now,
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  Speaker 2: back to Money Making Conversation master Class with me Rashaun McDonald. Yeah,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: those times are important because, like I said, when I
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: look back, you know, cannot forget you know.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: The Jet Beauty of the Week, Jet Beauty of.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: The forget the Jet Beauties of the week.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: That was That was the mainstake. But when I look
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: at your brand, I tell you a story. You have
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: a new book out, you know, I just mentioned it.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: You know, The Life and Times. Excuse me, it's no
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: wonder The Life and Times of Motowns legendary songwriter Sylvia Moore.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Before we get into it, why did you feel that
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: story was so important for you to write.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I felt that story was important for me to write
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: because it was during the pandemic, and like everybody, my
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: lifeline was social media. And I saw something. Two posts
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: that came across about the same subject, the beautiful picture
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: of Sylvia Moy in the studio with the young Stevie
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: Wonder sitting at the piano stood holding the harmonica, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: three members of the Funk Brothers behind her and everybody.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: The posts generated a lot of likes, and it had
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of comments, and most of the comments were
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: pretty similar, Oh she's so beautiful, but why haven't we
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: ever heard of her before? And then there was the
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: claim that she helped Stevie Wonder prevented him from being
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: let go from Motown, and then that she made history
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: as his first female producer. I'd never heard that before.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: And I came from Ebony and Jet magazine. So you
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: go to the archives of where it should have been,
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: and I said, oh, well, if anybody would have a
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: story and a background on Sylvia Moy, it's the archives
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: of Ebony and Jet.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: So I went to my backyard.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: And when I went into the backyard, I didn't see
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: anything mentioned about this woman. So I'm curious as to
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: why hasn't the world ever heard that Stevie Wonder was
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: supposedly on the chopping block and if she was the
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: first female producer. Have I only heard about Valerie Simpson.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: I never heard about Sylvia Mooy and how she did
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: all of this stuff. And so that's what made me curious,
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: because people were curious about her, and so was I,
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: because I said, how are you getting the credit for something?
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: And there is I don't see a footprint.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: I don't see anything that you've done to show me
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: that this is what you did.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: So that made me set out.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: But before I could begin, I had to make sure
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: the most critical part of this story was in place.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: Was Stevie supposedly on the chopping block or was he not?
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: So when I began my research, I interviewed those who
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: work at Motown. We're talking Mickey Stevens. Smokey Robinson was
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: the first person I interviewed. Right after him was Mickey Stevenson.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, it was probably within fifteen
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: twenty minutes on the same day the interview and then
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: the Martha Reeves and then the Eddie High And so
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I thought to myself, there were people who said, yes,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: he was going to get let go, and there were
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: people who said, no, what are you talking about. I
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: never heard this before, So I had to find the source.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: So I reached and was trying to get to Stevie. Stevie,
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: if you know him, you know him. But if you
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: try to get to him through his people, I'd have
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: an easier time trying to get to Barack Obama. That
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Stevie wasn't okay, and you know what I'm talking about.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: So at any rate, I thought, I gotta see if
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: there's truth to this.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: And so when.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: I realized and I found enough research where Stevie actually
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: talked about that time, and there was truth indeed that
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: he was getting older, his voice was changing, and most importantly,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: Barry Gordy did not know what to do with him. See,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: when Stevie Wonder came to Motown when he was eleven
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: years old, he played the harmonica and that Blueberry Gordy
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: away his harmonica playing blew me away, but his singing
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: voice did not. So if I wasn't crazy about your
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: voice before, now that your voice is changing, what we
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: ended for a world of trouble. Okay, So he was.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: Stevie was considered like a novelty act. And so that
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: first song that made him was Fingertips Part two, which
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: was recorded in film in Chicago at Chicago's Regal Theater.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: He played the harmonica and just said everybody say yay.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: It was like a that's it, but that's not singing it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: So but that broke him and then after that it
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: was a three year low.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: It was like crickets. Nothing else could hit on him.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: So it's like, look, the entertainment industry is not always
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: kind to chill.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I come from the world of media.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: I watched a lot of celebrities go from chill to
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: men to kids and so on and so forth. And
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: I looked and thought to myself, this woman stepped out
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: on faith and did something when they were considering letting
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: him go.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: She said to Mickey.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: Stevenson because in her own words and in the interview
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: that I got of her, Mickey Stevenson was the one
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: who said, hey, do I have any volunteers who want
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: to work with Stevie wondered to see if they could
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: write a song for you.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: The other men at the time, they all were working.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: With hit makers, so they weren't trying to break up
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: their momentum.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: So they all passed.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: And remember the opportunity word is volunteer. So I'm working
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: on hits. We love Stevie, but I don't have time
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: to volunteer.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: For no free stuff.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: So hey, if we don't have anyone, we might have
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: to let him go. That's what she said, Mickey Stevenson. See, okay,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: now here's the thing. She came up to Mickey and said,
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's over for Stevie. And she said
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: she begged, can I work with him? And if I
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: get a hit on him and can I also produce it?
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Will he be able to stay? She was allowed to
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: work with Stevie and the hint was uptight. The song
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: became a hit, Stevie wanted to stay. She did not
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: get the producer credit for it, but that is how
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: she made history as a producer out of her.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Own Cosby and Mickey Stevens exactly.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: So she did not get her name on it, even
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: though that was part of the agree. So that was
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: the song where she made history as a producer. But
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: her name to this day it is not listed on
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: any Motown song during her duration there as a producer.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: So how did she make history as a producer? I
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: have to research. I'm a trained investigative journalist. My book
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: it is no wonder, It's part of investigative journalism as
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: well as academic scholarly research. So I have to dig
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: deep to find out how is she getting credit for
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: something her name isn't on. I didn't see her name
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: on anything, and so that's when she's always credited as
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: a writer. But even some songs she didn't even get
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: credit for as a writer.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: So like this Old Heart of Mine, Eddie Holland said
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: he gave her credit for the song, but on some
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: of those songs you don't even see her name on.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: So she got credit for some of her songs with songwriting,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: but no credit for the producing. But in her words,
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: she said she got paid for two songs as a producer.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Okay. Now, as an academic, as a scholar, I was
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: going through.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: A book called African American Issues and higher ed African
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: American Issue Issues in African American Music, and it dealt
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: with power, gender, race, and representation. And in this book
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: there was a scholar who interviewed her and it was
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: a footnote and in the footnote he said she claimed
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: to have produced uptight and I was made to love her.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: And that's when I found that scholar and I interviewed
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: him and I asked if he had the recording. He
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: had her interview and in her own words, I heard
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: her share and tell her story, and that woman made
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: history as a producer, but was denied the credit as
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: a producer. Now, just recently I wrote an article for UH,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: the Conversation right and to write for.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Let me before you give a start, let me just
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: hold on. I just want to give people how great
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: she was.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, Stevie Wonder's uptight dioloxis brother, this whole heart of mine,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Marvin Gate, it takes two, babe, man, Come on now,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Steve Wonder, I was made to love her, you know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering Martha, Martha.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And the Van Dale's love Bug, leave my Heart Alone,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Martha and the Van Dales.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Honey Child, Seby Doobe Do do Dave.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder, my sher Ree, Stevie Wonder, Marth and Van
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Dale's Honey Love Stevie Wonder never.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Had a dream come true?
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Marth and Vandale's Forget Me Not, Michael Jackson with a
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: child's heart.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: This is who we're talking about. Sylvia or Moore.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: If you are in my age, you know all these
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: songs and and.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: You forgot the all time fab My baby loves Me
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Martha and Yes, and with the Child's Heart was actually
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: first performed by Stevie Wonder and then his cousin Michael Jackson.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Did it a little while later. Seeing Motown.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: They believed in getting their money's worth out of those
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: artists as well as those songwriters and.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: The the music itself.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: But that's what they did with Gladys Knight and uh
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: I heard you through the Gray Fryar.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Remember Gladys Knight did it. They came right around and
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: gave it to Marvin Gay.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Exactly say look, if you can't get a hit on it,
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: we're gonna move on to the next, into the next,
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: into the next. So hey, that's called being quite resourceful.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: And it worked.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: It worked.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, you know you you know your history.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna just tell you that, doctor Bachino, and that's
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: a blessing your your oral history, you know. So so
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: so where the museum gonna be at for you?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Now? We're gonna put that make a digital museum for us.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: You know, vir people ask me all the time you
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: need to you know, they see all of these quote
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: unquote young influencers talking about stuff and sharing information. And
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: they say they're talking about stuff that you live. They're
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: they're telling about stuff that you helped to make. I
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: didn't just uh read history alongside John N. H.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Johnson.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: We helped him to write it and to make it.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: But here's the thing about history. You're not thinking, Wow,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: I'm in the moment and I make a history and
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: this is gonna be. You're just doing it because you're
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: called to do it. You don't know what tomorrow is
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: gonna hold. But I'm so fortunate that I left a
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: footprint in the sand, and I know my stories, and
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: I look at all of the success that many people
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: are massing, and I say, I remember interviewing that person.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: I remember when I see Antoine Fuquah, and I remember
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: when at Johnson published and we used to have a private.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Room where you could scream movies.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: He came with his movie Training Day, and he brought
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: his wife, Leelo Lashan, and we saw a rough cut
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: of Training Day, and he said, I'm not certain how
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: the ending is gonna be, but this is what I have,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: and he talked about what the alternate might have been.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I look at Antoine Fuquah today and he just did Michael,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: But I also look at Antoine Fuquah's history. Harvey Fuquah
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: was his uncle, Harvey Fuquah. You might remember the moon glows,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: So do you see that full circle moment? And how
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: so there are these ten bits and little things that
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I know that just for me comes second nature. And
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: so people often say, when are you gonna do something?
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: We'll see when spirit moves me, we'll see. It takes
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of work, but we'll see.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: She's the author of the book It's No Wonder, The
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Life and Times of Motown's legendary songwriter sevill Or Moore.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: What can we get this book?
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: You could get the book anywhere and everywhere the books
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: are sold.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: My friend, you know you're still in Chicago, right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I'm still in Chicago.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Chicago is one of my best eating cities. I I
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: gotta go up there and give me some good food
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: in Chicago. Well, you're gonna see me, my friend. You're
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: a brilliant person, an incredible legendary mind, and we're gonna
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: sit down and get this virtual museum of you off
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: the ground. Yeah, because I don't take no, especially when
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I talk to great people. Because you know, one of
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: my great moments in life is that I want you
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to tell your story, not let somebody come back and
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: mess it up.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, oh oh yeah, because people will write you out
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: and wipe you out of your on history if letter.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: But here's the wonderful thing about history. It may be hidden,
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: but it's never erased.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Well, guess what we're gonna.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: We're gonna they say, stopgap that we just gonna put
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: it in place, lock it down, put a password on there,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and they can only be viewed by people who are
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: allowed to be viewed.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: But you you, I.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Say all these things to say this outstanding storyteller, that's you. Okay, uh,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: you've been You've been part of my life personally. And
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: to go grab miss Sylvia Moy and bring back songs
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: and realize in the early stage we saw about songs
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: before the songs and the key of life.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't we wouldn't have gotten to that. They got
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: rid of him, and they wouldn't.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Have got that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, imagine the world without Sylvia More.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: All right, you are speaking my life message.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: The world with Sylvia More. Let's go be real. I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: read a lot them songs. Now there would be no
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: more than the vad Dall.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: All right, when I marked in the Vandela, wait a minute,
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: they were doing stuff.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I read these songs.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you gotta have some extra love here. These
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: songs they know, I said, brother, that's my boys right there,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Brother Marvin k it takes two. These songs are my
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I was made to love that. I mean, that's a classic.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering that's a classic by stevene One love Bug
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: my Heart. That's mart than the bad. Come on now, honey,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: come on now, come on. That's one my shell real more.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: That is like a legendary song. Ste one, Martha the
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Marthy again, honey love Okay, never had a dream? Come
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Steve one, and then come Martha again. Forget me now
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and then come on now.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: One of my favorites by Sylvia Moore and this is
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: love Come on last Night and the Pips did it all.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: That song that speaks to the astory on the skill.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: That's just brilliance.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: This woman was made.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on my show, Money Making Conversations Masterclass.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: But no, this is not the last time you're speaking
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: to Rashad McDonald.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, all right.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: All right, thank you, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Now I need for you to do me a favor
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: right now to follow or subscribe to Money Making Conversations.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: It's free and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please do
• 28:34
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• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Keep winning