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1930s Fashion Part 3 · We Regret Nothing

• Sean: Welcome back to We Regret Nothing. I'm Shawn, and today we reach the final fitting in our exploration of 1930s fashion. Over the last few episodes, Michelle, Andrea, Lori, and I worked through 20 defining looks of the decade. Styles shaped by economic hardship, Hollywood glamour, and a growing sense of modern identity. From practical everyday wear to elegant bias-cut sophistication, the 1930s proved that style doesn't disappear in difficult times. It just adapts. Now we're down to the top 10. By the end of this episode, only five fashion items will earn a place in the space capsule to represent the look and feel of the 1930s. This is where the decisions get tough. Timeless elegance versus cultural impact. Function versus fashion. Which piece is truly defined how people saw themselves and how this decade will be remembered? So today we ask the final question. Which five fashion items best capture the style, resilience, and identity of the 1930s? Let's find out. Welcome, Michelle. Hello. Hello, Andrea. And welcome back, Lori. Hi. So we have to start. Every fashion ⁓ episode, Lori goes all out. Lori, can you stand up for us? Yes. What are you wearing? In-person participant 1: Now we're down to the top 10. By the end of this episode, only five fashion items will earn a place in the space capsule to represent the look and feel of the 1930s. This is where the decisions get tough. Timeless elegance versus cultural impact. Function versus fashion. Which piece is truly defined how people saw themselves and how this decade will be remembered. So today we ask the final question, which five fashion items best capture the style, and identity of the 1930s. Let's find out. Welcome, Michelle. Hello. Hello, Andrea. Mm-hmm. And welcome back Lori. Hi. So we have to start every fashion episode. Lori goes all out. Lori, can you stand up for us? Yes. What are you wearing? Well, I have inspiration for many things this time. We'll start with the high neck that we referenced last time. It's not in your face, but it's nice. A little bit of curl and the hair ornaments that the ladies used to wear in the hair. Sean: Nice. In-person participant 1: ⁓ The window pane design on my shirt is more like Frank Lloyd Wright architecture with the tiny squares and a little pajama. I cannot give up the pajama because it's so comfy even though it's not a wide leg trouser. It's more of the beach pajama look. And all black if I was going to hang with the Hollywood ladies, this is probably what I would wear. Sean: ⁓ In-person participant 1: ⁓ cool. Gorgeous. Thank you. you want to ask Michelle and I about our fit? No, that's okay. And the pendant jewelry. I do like that. jewelry. love that. And to be fair, technically you are hanging out with a couple of Hollywood types now. You're right. Sean: I mean, absolutely. Do you want to ask Michelle and I about our fit? No, that's good. And the pendant jewelry. I do like that. I love that. And to be fair, technically, you are hanging out with a couple of Hollywood types now. So you're right. Win-win. OK, let me start with our list just to remind everybody our top 10. In no particular order, the bias cut gown, wide leg trousers for women. double-breasted suit, evening cape, backless dresses, felt fedora, belted day dresses, the bolero jacket, beaded evening bags, and gloves, both day and evening gloves. I think we decided last episode, Sean, it's just gloves. Just say gloves. No, because there is a difference. What's the difference? ⁓ Your day gloves very rarely extended to your elbows. In-person participant 1: No because there is a difference. What's the difference? Your day gloves very rarely extended to your elbows and evening gloves very often were only to your elbows. you any reason why that is or it just is? Sean: And evening gloves very often were only to your elbows. you any reason why that is or it just is? Do we know? Why they wet? Why the difference in ⁓ day gloves and evening gloves as far as how far they go up on the arm. In-person participant 1: Why the difference in ⁓ day gloves and evening gloves as far as how far they go up on the arm? I don't know that there's a reason. think it's just more, I mean, I never researched it, but I think it's just formality. Sean: I mean, I never researched it, but I think it's just formality. I think the light glove looks a little bit dressier. Because even the gauntlet you could wear during the day. Like you often could have that. thinking about temperature, but it could be temperature related too, right? So in the evening you're wearing something classier, maybe sleeveless, right? And so you'd have it up a little higher. In-person participant 1: I the light glove looks a little bit dressier. Because even the gauntlet you could wear during the day. Like you'd be often, I'm always thinking about temperature, but it could be temperature related too, right? So in the evening you're wearing something a little bit classier, maybe sleeveless, right? And so you'd have it up a little higher on the arm. during the day, Yeah, and so you can just have your you need the efficiency to just that seems so It's like yes. This is going to keep me warm. Yeah, I'm like no, but I mean you would like we do all kinds of yeah You think about that and it's like yeah, it's like I will totally wear this is but I will wear a sweatshirt as we've more Than one occasion made fun of me for wearing like a sweater and then shorts, which is my Montauk look I would like you to respect Sean: I will totally wear this, but I will wear a sweatshirt as we on more than one occasion made fun of me for wearing like a sweater and then shorts, which is my Montauk look. I would like you to respect, but, yeah, it's, don't know. That's always one thing. I'm like bottom part doesn't get as cold. I don't know. Yeah. Dan evening gloves on. Well, I mean, we kind of started at number 10, but I like what we're, I like what we got, but Lori, you have. In-person participant 1: But, ⁓ but yeah, it's, I don't know. That's always one thing of like, bottom part doesn't get as cold. I don't I don't know. Yeah, they need being gloves on. We were fighting at number 10, but I like what we got. But Lori, you have made it very clear on episodes. You love a glove, a pair of gloves, not just one. You're not Michael Jison. need both my hands get cold. Yeah. And so you love gloves. You have many gloves. I think it's just a great accessory. I think and I think that's how it started out. Right. That they're accessorizing, but it could be Sean: made it very clear on previous episodes you love a glove. Well, a pair of gloves, not just one. You're not Michael Jackson. yeah, and so you love gloves. You have many gloves. accessory. In-person participant 1: warmth related I know a lot of was the smoking also mm-hmm so I think it goes back to the 30s where they're repurposing reusing for multiple things you know it's not a glove I think starting was utilitarian but I think it evolved it's starting to evolve into more fashion statement Sean: smell. It goes back to the 30s where they're repurposing, reusing for multiple things. know, it's not in a glove. think starting was utilitarian, but I think it evolved. It's starting to evolve into more fashion statement. Hmm. Michelle, anything about gloves? Anything to add? In-person participant 1: Michelle, anything about gloves? Anything to add? I also love a glove. But not like Laurie loves a glove. But I have a condition, so I need gloves. do. She has a condition. a condition. Because she's German. Why? Is that why? Yeah. It's more prevalent in the German. Annie and Peggy had it, that's so then like I researched it. So. Yeah. Hmm. Sean: You In-person participant 1: Okay. know, how I got sirech, like the bottle, you Germans have gold hands. Wow. Okay. So we actually covered gloves, which is number 10 on the list. So let's go back to number one. The bias cut gown. And Lori, yes. Talk to me about the bias cut gown. I think for the thirties, iconic. I think it just, it was. Sean: Okay, ⁓ so we actually covered gloves, which is number 10 on the list. So let's go back to number one, ⁓ the bias cut gown. ⁓ And Lori, talk to me about the bias cut gown. I think for the 30s. It was kind of the statement piece. In-person participant 1: the kind of the statement piece for. I think, I don't really have a lot to say. I just think it's a classic. I think it's iconic. I think the backlist, like you were saying, people always go back to it because it just stands out. It's just very, I think for me, it had a statuesque quality about it. And I think that's why people gravitated toward it if you, that, Sean: think it's a classic. think it's iconic. think the backless, like you were saying, people always go back to it because it just stands out. It's just very, ⁓ I think for me it had a statuesque quality about it and I think that's why people gravitated toward it because if you, that silhouette, even though you may not be happy with how In-person participant 1: silhouette, even though you may not be happy with how your figure is, it could be made to look a certain way. Sean: your figure is, it could be made to look a certain way. In-person participant 1: Andrea? Can we just combine bias cut and backless? Uh, we cannot. Sorry. I'll explain why. You did have a definite. I know your definite tone. I guess so. No, I don't really have anything to say about the bias cut. Michelle? Many of them had low backs, so we can talk about that when we get to the devoted. Yay! Sean: Andrea? Can we just combine bias-fit and backless? ⁓ we cannot. Sorry. I'll explain why, but... You did have a definite... ⁓ yeah, no. ...definite tone. ⁓ no. guess so. No, I don't really have anything to say about the bias-fit. Michelle? Many of them have low backs, so we can talk about that when we get to the voting. Yay! In-person participant 1: Michelle made a point. Albus is here everybody. Albus is joining the chat. Hi Albie. He said hi. He did say hi. Sean: Michelle made a point. is here everybody. Elvis is joining the chat. He said hi. He did say hi. Okay, so let me just, I'll defend my position, in my description of the bias cut gown, just to recap what we talked about, what I learned from the last. episode or the one before. So this is talking about the bias cut itself, cutting fabric at a 45 degree angle against the grain. Michelle thankfully had an analogy for food, for steak that resonated with me. But this transformed fashion from this rigid construction into more fluid, kind of a second skin type of art form. Now, I will fully acknowledge most of the, or a lot of these had backless designs, but not all of them. And the key to the bias cut is, so let me start with before the twenties. We talked about in the twenties fashion episodes that the era that came before the twenties, women's clothing relied on corsets, padding, and then a lot of heavy structure to try to create shape. This allowed for this bias cut, the bias cut allowed fabric to drape naturally over the body. the curves of the body is probably why it's speaking to me. But there was no need for restrictive undergarments. And so if we're going to define this by that, just how it helps shape the, or kind of drape naturally over the body's curves and also giving freedom of movement, I have to separate it from a backless dress because there are backless dresses that don't have a bias cut. see, see my, but I'm listening. In-person participant 1: Yeah, I got you. But I'm listening. Go see Michelle. Sean: I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt on a fashion episode. I am, I'd be real careful listening to me, but, but again, the thirties, we've talked about Hollywood glamor. think we, know, who wore certain pieces of fashion resonated with people. ⁓ And especially we're, this is during the great depression. So when you see a starlet and a shimmering liquids like satin gown, it did offer a sense of like, Ultimate luxury like untouchable elegance that made made it very ⁓ I don't know it impacted a lot of people but anyway, we talked about Madeleine Viennet Viennet She French I'll say Viennet, but she perfected that she's credited with perfecting the technique Yeah, that's a lot about the bias cut but well, let me let me just I'm gonna go off on a tangent. I warned you but ⁓ Madeleine ⁓ so she was ⁓ she's born in 1876 into an extremely poor family ⁓ in Lorale. Loray. Loray. I do this every episode. I write down notes I can't pronounce. It's awesome. But her parents separated when she was really young. She moved with her father who was a toll collector at the age of five. this is the part. Having already left school. She began her apprenticeship at age 12 as a seamstress alongside members of the Gardais Champ- Again, Sean. ⁓ After a brief marriage at 18 years old ⁓ and the loss of a young child, she left her husband and went to London to work at a hospital as a seamstress. ⁓ So she eventually returned to Paris and got a job in the fashion house. Calais Sewers. Hang on. C-A-L-L-O-T. In-person participant 1: hospital as a seamstress. So she eventually returned to Paris and got a job in the fashion house. Which house? Calais Sewers. Hang on. C-A-L-L-O-T S-O-E-U-R-S. Oh good, nobody else can say it. Maybe if you were reading it you could say it. But she went to work there as a toil maker? T-O-I-O-E? Is that a twill? Sean: S-O-E-U-R-S. ⁓ good, nobody else can say it either. Maybe if you were reading it, you could say it. ⁓ But she went to work there as a toil maker? T-O-I-L-E? Is that twill? Twill. Twill. I knew that. Okay. I think. I'm being molested by the cat. In-person participant 1: ⁓ I I'm being molested by the cat Okay, please go on. So she, this is the part, but she designed, she worked under a whole bunch of people who were very famous at the time. Marie, Kelly, Herbert. ⁓ Yeah, but. Sean: Okay, please go on. So she, ⁓ this is the part that, but she designed, she worked under a whole bunch of ⁓ people who were very famous at the time, Marie, Calais, Gerber. ⁓ Yeah, but her use of barefoot models and design of loose robes clashed with the style of the house. In 1912, she founded her own fashion house. ⁓ which unfortunately closed in 1914 because it was the beginning of the First World War. ⁓ Re-establishing the house in 1923. ⁓ And then in 25, ⁓ she expanded with premises on Fifth Avenue in New York, where she sold designs purchased off the peg and adapted to the wearer. Then in the 30s, ⁓ her bias-cut clothes dominated haute couture. Haute? I hate the French. In-person participant 1: No offense, not like Henry Hicks the South. Sorry. I just can't pronounce any other ⁓ But ⁓ she quickly, her gowns were ⁓ worn by Marlene Dietrich, Catherine Hepburn, Joan Crawford, Greta Garbo. Her loyal clients included ⁓ European aristocrats and wealthy North Americans such as Baroness Robert de Rothschild, Madame Citrion. Yeah. Anyway. ⁓ Sean: No offense. Not like Andrea Hits the South. Sorry. I just can't pronounce any of their words. But ⁓ she quickly, ⁓ her gowns were ⁓ worn by Marlene Dietrich, Katherine Hepburn, Joan Crawford, Greta Garbo. Her loyal clients included ⁓ European aristocrats ⁓ and wealthy North Americans such as Baroness Robert Day Rothschild, Madame Citrion. Yeah. Anyway. ⁓ In-person participant 1: She as an intensely private individual V &A avoided public displays and mundane frivolities despite her success as a designer She expressed extreme dislike for the world of fashion Stating in so far as one can talk of a V &A school. It comes mostly from my having been an enemy of fashion There is something superficial volatile about the seasonal and elusive winds of fashion which offends my sense of beauty ⁓ Sean: She, as an intensely private individual, V &A avoided public displays and mundane frivolities. Despite her success as a designer, she expressed extreme dislike for the world of fashion, stating, Insofar as one can talk of a V &A school, it comes mostly from my having been an enemy of fashion. There is something superficial and volatile about the seasonal and elusive whims of fashion which offends my sense of beauty." ⁓ So I wanted to say all that to get to her quote. In-person participant 1: quote, because it made me laugh. So, a little But it seems like she, that's so interesting, because it seems like she was more about the aesthetic of what the technique did than, yeah, like hobnobbing with the celebrities, because it is a fickle industry. And it can be very superficial. Sean: because it made me laugh. deal with it. seems like she, that's so interesting because it seems like she was more about the aesthetic of what the technique did than, yeah, like hobnobbing with the celebrities, because it is a fickle industry and it can be very superficial. And so when people are creative and are just looking at the process, take it by a purely technical standpoint, I can see how that would clash with. In-person participant 1: And so when people are creative and are just looking at the process to get by a purely technical standpoint, I can see how that would clash with just people going, I'm rich so can wear this or whatever. it makes a lot of sense to me is why I went through that whole thing to get to her quote. I like that because in a fashion episode, we're highlighting someone who actually hated fashion. Yeah. She liked what the technique did and it made her successful. That's so interesting. Yeah. Number two, wide-legged. Sean: Just people going, I'm rich so can write. It makes a lot of sense to me is why I went through that whole thing to get to her quote. Because in a fashion episode, we're highlighting someone who actually hated fashion, hated the industry. Yeah, she's like what the technique did. Yeah. Number two, wide-legged pants, Michelle. In-person participant 1: pants, Love them. Wearing some. I just I love you know, it also gives you a silhouette because they would wear smaller tops with them to accentuate the waist but then you still got all the comfort of a big leg pant. Big fan. Andrew. It's pronounced Kalo Swa. Sean: I just I love you know it also gives you a silhouette because they would wear smaller tops with them to accentuate the waist but then you still got all the comfort of a big leg pant big fan Andrea it's pronounced Kayla swa just so you know Kayla swa Kayla was there okay yeah Kayla swa yeah yeah In-person participant 1: Just so you know. Kayla Swa? Kayla was their, it was sisters, the Kayla sisters. that was me on my phone doing research. Well, yeah. And, know, my blog. ⁓ I fucking love wide leg trousers. I love, I think we know this. I think I've said it on more than one occasion. I love you. I love you. I love you. Sean: That was me on my phone doing research. well, yeah. And, you know, my blog, I fucking love wide leg trousers. I love, I think we know this. I think I've said it on more than one occasion. I love you. love you. love you. Yeah. I'm a fan. Laurie. Yes. It's. In-person participant 1: fan Lord yes suit it's making a huge comeback right now every decade this pant yeah it has a moment every decade in some kind of way yeah and yeah I think it's I think it's great I think it's a staple I love it also Sean: Make it a huge comeback right now. Every decade, this pant. Yeah, it has moment every decade. surges in some kind of way. And yeah, I think it's great. I think it's a staple. I love it also. I mean, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that these are or have become a symbol of liberation, rebellion, and just like, ⁓ I don't know. I wrote my notes, a symbolism of quiet power. In-person participant 1: I mean, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that these are or have become a symbol of liberation, rebellion, and just like, uh, don't know. I wrote my notes, a symbolism of quiet power. Oh, I like that. You did that. Yeah. When I look at it, I looked at a lot of pictures of throughout the decades of these pants and they're, didn't really evolve. They're the same pants. It's just the wearer to me. And maybe, maybe I self-select. Sean: I like that. Because that's, yeah, when I look at, I looked at a lot of pictures of throughout the decades of these pants and they didn't really evolve. They're the same pants. It's just the wearer, to me, and maybe I self-selected the pictures, but the pictures I looked at, I felt like women in these pants. was, just, that's what came to my mind. Symbol of quiet power. But ⁓ in the 20s and 30s, In-person participant 1: the pictures, but the pictures I looked at, I felt like women in these pants, that's what came to my mind. Symbol of quiet power. ⁓ in the 20s and 30s, ⁓ these were considered a daring statement for women. ⁓ Coco Chanel, Marlene Dietrich, they used them to challenge the rigid social dress codes. But then, I know we're talking 40s, but we are talking, some of this is cultural impact too. The 60s, palazzo pants became a very Sean: ⁓ These were considered a daring statement for women. ⁓ Coco Chanel, Marlene Dietrich, they used them to challenge the rigid social dress codes. But then I know we're talking 40s, but we are talking some of this is cultural impact to the 60s. Palazzo pants became a very strategic choice. ⁓ And so their skirt-like flow allowed women to bypass restaurant bands on pants, by the way, while enjoying the comfort and mobility of wearing a pair of trousers. In-person participant 1: strategic choice ⁓ and so their skirt-like flow allowed women to bypass restaurant bands on pants by the way while enjoying the comfort and mobility of wearing a pair of trousers ⁓ and I don't feel that so much a dress code because I do respect a restaurant dress code so let's start off with that but I feel that it's just we don't want women in pants like that feels more back then yeah yeah that feels just more ⁓ like fucking white cisgender Sean: ⁓ And so that's so much a dress code because I do respect a restaurant dress code So let's start off with that, but I feel that it's just we don't want women in pants like that feels more Yeah, yeah And there we go if you had that on your bingo cards folks go ahead and mark that now number three In-person participant 1: And there we go. If you had that on your Van Gogh cards, us. Go ahead. Number three is the double-breasted suit jacket and lorry. Yes. Love it. Sean: ⁓ is the double-breasted suit jacket and lori In-person participant 1: kids again another item. It's just in different generations of buttons or fasteners or colors. I don't have a lot to say, but I ⁓ that's, it's a good staple for sure. Yeah. Michelle. Sean: just in different. Okay, that's okay Yeah, Michelle I particularly like it like we talked about like on a woman I think it looks great and you're seeing a lot more of that coming back like you said And that it was supposed to be you know a let a more casual offering which when you think about it casual but In-person participant 1: I particularly like it, like we talked about, like on a woman. think it looks great and we are seeing a lot more of that coming back, like you said. And that it was supposed to be, you know, a ⁓ more casual offering, which when you think about it now in your head, you're like, how is that even remotely casual? But yeah. Andrew. Sean: Andrea? I... I too, like a double breasted suit. very much... In-person participant 1: I, I too, like a double-breasted suit. I very much ⁓ like to see it on a female. What's funny is when you say double-breasted for some reason, this, the suit, I immediately picture Fred McMurray. I don't know why every time. And then it goes from Fred to Jimmy, to Jimmy Stewart, which is odd. think I'd think of Jimmy Stewart first, but it's, it's, I just think of those two and it's Fred McMurray and double indemnity that I think, I'm not, not my three sons. I was like, my three cents. Yeah, and it's Jimmy Stewart when he is walking down Main Street in It's a Wonderful Life. When he's gonna go go to Mount Bedford. Yeah, it just it's odd that like it is very there's a couple of these things Sean: ⁓ Like to see it on a female what's funny is when you say double-breasted for some reason this the suit I Immediately picture Fred McBurney. I don't know why every time And then it goes from Fred to Jimmy Jimmy Stewart, which is odd you think I think of Jimmy Stewart first But it's it's I just think of those two and it's Fred McBurney double indemnity that I think I'm not not my three sons Yeah, it's Jimmy Stewart when he is walking down Main Street in In-person participant 1: that we have on the list that I instantly see somebody in it. Like I said, when we were talking about the pillbox hat, and I know that thing did not make our list, but I'm glad it didn't make the cut, especially. ⁓ But I just always think of that scene in rear windows. it is very, these styles I do have very Hollywood coded. Sean: Yeah, so I, Lori said this, the jacket is, we're talking about what makes a double breasted suit jacket. We're talking about overlapping front and then the configuration of the buttons. really that in it's those two pieces, which is what makes it a double breasted suit came from the Navy, early Navy. They had a ⁓ reefer jacket. Which I forgot to look up. I'm sorry about that, but was worn by sailors But it had the same overlapping front with the with the with the configuration of buttons ⁓ But really what it did is is with that the overlapping ⁓ Front the way the jackets were the shoulders it did kind of I think we talked about this too is the way that it shaped on men ⁓ so a lot of politicians execs people who are trying to like In-person participant 1: with the configuration buttons. But really what it did is with that the overlapping Sean: convey this a sense of like rigid experience professionalism or you know just badass power dressers in the 80s but whatever. ⁓ But yeah so. Can we just say though that. ⁓ no. And I'm I am a. In-person participant 1: front, the way the jackets were, the shoulders, it did kind of, I think we talked about this too, it's the way that it's shaped on men. So a lot of politicians, execs, people who are trying to like convey this, sense of like rigid experience professionalism or, know, just bad ass power dressers in the eighties, but whatever. yeah, so. Can we just say though that, and I'm, I am a, Marine Corps wife. ⁓ My husband, as you know, was a Marine. ⁓ But the fucking Navy contributed a lot to fashion. Like this jacket, and you've got the pea coat, and this reefer jacket, because I'm looking at it right now, and I think I need one. The boat color like do you think that that's because they had literal ports of call, right? So like if someone else was in a different branch of the military You weren't necessarily just seeing them out and about we're not right here Yes, but as those guys would roll into different. Yeah, then they would get off the ships go into town Yeah, yeah, yeah anchors. Yeah, I I never thought but yeah that makes a lot of frickin ⁓ you would see them more often than you would maybe see other branches of And the Royal British Navy, like a bunch of the... like we had clothes in the 20s that came from them and so yeah, that was just, you know, good on you Navy. You did something, right? ⁓ boy. Besides give the Marines a ride to war. That's key for Sutherland if you're good men. That's not me. I'm aware. Blame Aaron Sorkin for that shit everybody. Okay, number four. Sean: Yeah, maybe see other branches of it. And the Royal British Navy, a bunch of them, like we had clothes in the 20s that came from from them and so yeah, that was ⁓ just you know, good on you. Maybe you did something right? ⁓ boy. Besides give the Marines a ride to war. That's key for Southern women. I know. I'm aware. Blame Aaron Sorkin for that shit everybody. Okay, number four is the Evening Cape. In-person participant 1: the evening cape andrio Sean: Andrea. I do, I like an evening cake and here again movie. ⁓ In-person participant 1: I do, I like an evening cape and here again, movie. ⁓ Kim Basinger in LA Confidential when she's she's supposed she's supposed to be Veronica Lake, right? She's had her to okay. Only she didn't have to get cut to look like her. She's had a diarrhea. This is very true. This is true. But she was from where? Bisbee, Arizona? Bisbee, Arizona. Anyway, I instantly see that like the breathe but that is very Veronica Lake and I do I like the evening Cape when it is the full Cape. I feel that it comes too much to Bolero when it is a short Sean: Basinder in LA confidential. she's... She's supposed to be Veronica Lake, right? Veronica Lake. Only she didn't have to get cut to look like her. She just had to dye her hair. This is very true. This is true but she was from what? Bisbee, Arizona? Bisbee, Arizona. ⁓ Anyway, I instantly see that like the... But that is very Veronica Lake. And I do... I like the evening cape when it is the full cape. ⁓ I feel that it comes too much to Bolero when it is a short In-person participant 1: Evening Cape. Sean: in Cape. Hmm. But that's just me. Okay, okay. Lori? I like it. In-person participant 1: but that's just me. Okay. Okay. Lori? I like it. but I think, and I know it's functional, because you don't want to wrinkle your gown. But I don't know if it's an essential piece for the 30s. Laurie's breaking the rules. I know. But she's a guest and she provides so much content on the analytics line. And it's because Laurie is Laurie. understand the... And it does have a good movie reference, again, with the drama. Sean: I don't know if it's an essential piece for the 30s. Lori's breaking the rules. I know. But she's a guest and she provides so much content that I'm gonna let it slide. it's Lori. I understand the... Okay. Michelle. ⁓ In-person participant 1: She's not good on her Lori is a rabble rouser She's so known Oh all the time people are like really Lori Sean: Lori is a rabble rouser. She's so known. All the time people are like, really? Lori? ⁓ I just, there's a couple of things that I found in my research that I wanted to just, I thought, I don't know. So it's signaled that the wearer did not need to perform manual labor. Its lack of arm holes or limited mobility reflected a lifestyle that required continual attention. That is a description that I found for the evening king. I wonder I love the evening king. But Lori just said it, ⁓ unlike structured coats, a loose cape doesn't crush the gown or elaborate sleeves that you might have or anything like that. She's not on board. She's still so rude. What part was rude? In-person participant 1: I just there's a couple of things that I found in my research that I wanted to just I thought I don't know So it signaled that the wearer did not need to perform manual labor Its lack of armholes or limited mobility reflected a lifestyle that required continual attention That is a description that I found for the evening cape No wonder I love the evening cape But Lori just said, unlike structured coats, a loose cape doesn't crush the gown or elaborate sleeves that you might have or anything like that. I'm jealous! The manual labor part Reflected a lifestyle that required continual attention Well, then there But Shell in the episode that we discussed the cape before it mentioned Bella Sean: The manual labor part. I thought that was hilarious. It's fucking awful. Reflected a lifestyle that required continual attention. ⁓ But ⁓ Michelle, in the episode that we discussed the cape before, had mentioned Bela Lugosi, I found that ⁓ he wore the cape to hide a trap door in the stage behind him. I don't know if that is, but I found two different sources that said they had to find something to hide this trap door, they got the cape, and then now that's a vampire. Yeah, because vampires don't wear capes. In-person participant 1: I found that ⁓ He wore the cape to hide a trap door in the stage behind him. I don't know if that is but I found two different sources that said they had to find something to hide this trap door They got the cape and then now that's a bad. cuz the vampires don't wear capes Well, either do superheroes Well, and the mode thank God. Yeah, but Superman Batman, but then so again, you got a couple of cape wearers on the good side Sean: Well, neither do superheroes. Yeah, but Superman, Batman. that so again, you got a couple of cape wearers on the good side. You got Darth Vader, you know, obviously, that is a cape. I mean, I hate to say it this way, but he dramatically leaves the room by like, and I don't love saying that. But you know, he does do it. How dare. All right. Number five. In-person participant 1: that Darth Vader you know that is a cape that is a cape that's a cape I mean I hate to say it this way but he dramatically leaves the room by like he does does I don't love saying that but ⁓ he's a diva come on how dare all right number five can we just can I take a minute if we're to say we're gonna talk about Star Wars a shit ton in the 70s I know I know this but I just want to say anything else that Hayden Christensen does not Sean: We're gonna talk about anything else that Hayden Christensen does not get the love he deserves because I hated Anakin so much because he played it so well. I'm just gonna say that now. Like people are always like no he was horrible no he was fantastic because you fucking ate his whiny ass. Also Natalie Portman is a pet vile in that movie because that was a child. In-person participant 1: get the love he deserves because I hated Anakin so much because he played it so well. I'm just gonna say that now like people are always like no he was horrible no he was fantastic because you fucking ate his whiny ass. Also Natalie Portman is a pedophile in that movie because that was a child. Number five, backless dress is Lori. Yeah I mean sexy. Yes girl. Sean: Number five, backless dresses, Lori. Sexy. In-person participant 1: I think they're super flattering. I think, again, dramatic. I'm on board. That's about it. For it. Sean: you Okay, we're gonna I would, Michelle? ⁓ I like that they were mostly low back. Well, it was a backless dress, but sometimes they were like, you know. You could do that square where it like, you jimid Or have the T. That T is, yeah. I like that quite a bit, actually. ⁓ In-person participant 1: Michelle? I like that they were mostly low back. Well, it was a backless dress, but sometimes they were like, you know. You could do that square where it like, like, you'd have the T. T is, yeah. I had that quite a bit, actually. ⁓ And that the ladies love to show off their sun tans. Yeah Which they were out there. Which they originally called them sunburns, which a sun tan was called Yeah, originally it was called a sunburn like if you were yeah, which I was like I wonder how that flipped That's when I read my thing. I was like I did not know that but I always think of ⁓ Diana Rigg in ⁓ Evil under the Sun. Do you remember when she's tanning and she's got like she's got that hat on that I wanted so bad for Mexico last time? ⁓ I love a backless gown. I know you're just waiting for me to get there. But yeah, I do. I love it. And I do love that it shows off your your tan and in your back. It made bats sexy. Interesting. I was very concerned about where I was going to go with this because I didn't want to come off the wrong. Sean: Interesting. I was very concerned about where I was going to go with this because I didn't want to come off the wrong way. ⁓ since you just said that. ⁓ So there I was just looking at all of this and then I came across Hollywood icons like Jean Harlow and Vicky Dugan use backless gowns to project a bold seductive image challenging contemporary beauty norms. And I was like, I don't know who Vicky Dugan is. And so I looked her up. So come on a journey with me. In-person participant 1: since you just said that. So there I was just looking at all of this and then I came across Hollywood icons like Jean Harlow and Vicky Dugan use backless gowns to project the bold seductive image challenging contemporary beauty norms and I was like I don't know who Vicky Dugan is and so I looked her up so come on a journey with me. Spank bank. Sean: ⁓ Vicki Dugan was born Edith Tuker in Brooklyn, York on January 1st, 1929. Her mother was a librarian and her father was an insurance salesman. Her father left the family when Dugan was six months old. Dugan began modeling at age 11. In-person participant 1: Vicki Dugan was born Edith Tuker in Brooklyn, York on January 1st, 1929. Of course she was. Her mother was a librarian and her father was an insurance salesman. Her father left the family when Dugan was six months old. Dugan began modeling at age 11. Sean: Dugan won multiple beauty pageants including Miss Coney Island and the 8th annual New York Skate Queen Contest. Michelle won in 94. ⁓ whoa whoa whoa whoa, don't look her up. I am telling a story. Okay. ⁓ In-person participant 1: Dugan won multiple beauty pageants including Miss Coney Island and the 8th annual New York Skate Queen contest. ⁓ shit. Which Michelle won. Wow. ⁓ But, ⁓ whoa whoa whoa whoa, don't look her up. Why? I am telling a story. I'm just, okay. What? Okay. Holy Sorry, go on, go on. This one's going in my space, man. Are you looking at this one? She's still alive. Is she really? You didn't say I did. We don't know her background, just her bust. Her bust? No, it's her back. So hang on. put your phone down. So, she, uh... Sean: You didn't say I could do that. We don't need her background, just her bust. Oh, her bust? No, it's her back. Yeah. So hang on. Hey, put your phone down. she, uh... She began modeling as a teenager. She changed her name to Vicki after the actress Vicki Lester and Dugan after her mother's maiden name. So she started a successful career in modeling before gaining her first movie role in Back from Eternity in 1956. She gained small parts in nine other movies, but then, ⁓ so I just found this quote, ⁓ she earns $100 a week by looking pretty on the Jackie Gleason's TV show. In-person participant 1: She began modeling as a teenager. She changed her name to Vicki after the actors Vicki Lester and Dugan after her mother's maiden name. So she started a successful career modeling before gaining her first movie role in Back from Eternity in 1956. She gained small parts in nine other movies. then, so I just found this quote, she earns $100 a week by looking pretty on the Jackie Gleason's TV show and $250 a week from. Sean: and $250 a week for modeling. So she had been modeling and acting ⁓ for several years. And then the Golden Globes in 1957, ⁓ she wore a backless dress that plunged low enough that people saw her reverse cleavage. And from that day forward, she became known as the back. That is what people referred to her as. So I will say this, because I was worried. I understand criticizing a woman by a notable body part is reductive and objectifying. Although during this time, again, not. Betty Grable was celebrated for her legs. Jane Russell was sometimes referred to as the bust. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying Vicki was known as the back. So much so ⁓ her anatomy became such an object of curiosity by the media. ⁓ In-person participant 1: Although, during this time... Shall we back to the picture? ⁓ Betty Grable was celebrated for her legs. Jane also was sometimes referred to as the bust. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying Vicki was known as the back. So much so her anatomy became such an object of curiosity by the media. ⁓ There was a ⁓ photographer named Ralph Crane who conducted a photo shoot with her where he they put her in a backless gown that dropped really low and she just walked around. Sean: there was a ⁓ photographer named Ralph Crane who conducted a photo shoot with her where they put her in a backless gown that dropped really low and she just walked around LA and Ralph Crane took pictures of all the men and women looking at her. That was- We're best friends. Are those the photos from her? And so there are several photos of what I put down in my notes. In-person participant 1: Because ⁓ Sean: The images of male heads on a swivel remind me of today's popular distracted boyfriend meme where the guys looking back, all these guys and ladies, he just took pictures all over LA of her, right? So Dugan would go on to be the inspiration for the character of Jessica Rabbit. You can see it right there in her, and that's where I know her name from. She is the inspiration for Jessica Rabbit. ⁓ The Limelighters, and she was in Playboy by the way, so if you want to really find that. In-person participant 1: from. She's just a rabbit. ⁓ The Lion Ligers and she was in Playboy by the way so you want a real find out those pictures. there's a band called the Limelighters who I'm not familiar with but they wrote a song called Vicky Dugan and in which they sing of her Kalypagene Kleft. the lyric is Vicky please turn your back on me. Vicky, notice the back I just wanted to she again in 57. Michelle? This picture of her in this pool. Oh yeah Sean: those pictures, but there's a band called the Limelighters who I'm not familiar with, but they wrote a song called Vicky Dugan and in which they sing of her Kalipagian cleft, which I had to look up, but the lyric is Vicky, please turn your back on me. So Vicky, known as the back, just wanted to, she again in 57, what Michelle? ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yes. She was a... Okay. I'm, I feel so much better. I felt like I was going to catch some heat for objectifying Vicky on this episode, but listen, I spent more than more time than I should have on, on researching Vicky and, and yes, Vicky Dugan is still alive. So shout out to Vicky. Okay. Okay. Now put your phones down. In-person participant 1: Okay, I feel so much better I felt like I was gonna catch some heat objectifying Vicky on this episode. I spent more time than I should have on researching Vicky. And yes, Vicky Dugan is still alive. So shout out to Vicky. God damn. I mean good on her. Okay, now put your phones down. Okay. Jesus. Sean: Jesus! I just say something about... Just one more. So close. Yeah, Lori, please. I mean, the ladies of this time, right? In-person participant 1: Yeah, Lori, please I mean the ladies of this time right the men were telling him what name to have and what to wear and who to marry and whatever if they find their power in wearing that or wearing this I think That's beautiful Lori. I like that. I really like that Sean: Is this? That's beautiful Lori. I like that. I really like that. Yeah. Yeah. But you have to understand, coming from me, I feel some kind of way of like, look at, know, her... I don't know. I was a little nervous but I'm still going to talk about her. In-person participant 1: But you have to understand, coming from me, I feel some kind of way of like, look at her. I do love it. I was a little nervous, but I'm still going to talk about it. that's kind of instinctual, Do you some time alone, honey? It's just instinctual. I appreciate your sensitivity to it. Thank you. But I think us ladies have been around, seasoned enough to know that we don't take it that... Sean: So thank you. Thank you. I think us ladies have been around the season enough to know that we don't take it that way. In-person participant 1: No, no, no. Yeah. What are we saying? We don't kink shame. we could like we're very open, but I do appreciate your your I appreciate how you handled that bit. But fucking a I want that. I do actually want to get that The one where she's going right by the bus stop Sean: What did we say don't keep shame so we we're very open but I do appreciate your your I appreciate how you handle that I do actually want to get that The one where she's going right by the bus stop That that whole series was in time or no life. I'm sorry. It was in life magazine And you can order them by the Yes. ⁓ I mean I didn't look ⁓ okay number six In-person participant 1: That whole series was in time. want that and I want to put it in here. You can? Yes. Okay, because I want to. mean, I didn't look. number six. I like a nice back. Number six is the Felt Fedora Michelle. I don't know. mean, it's a Fedora. Sean: I like a nice back, I'm sorry. ⁓ Number six is the Felt Fedora, ⁓ Michelle. In-person participant 1: I don't know, I don't have a lot to add on this one. That's okay. know, men started wearing them kind of everywhere, right? In all public places. That was like the look. Sean: That's okay. That's okay. Lori In-person participant 1: I don't have a whole lot to add. do like when they would wear it in the films because especially those Noir films, it was kind of cool, like was a whole aesthetic. But yeah, I don't have a whole lot to add about them. Sean: It's okay. Andrea? Again, Jason Mraz. That's just what I... No, I do love them in a film noir. And again, Dumbledore and Demedy and Maltese Falcon and all those. I do very much... When it's jauntily on the side. Yeah, there's no universe where we live that if you said ⁓ picture of Gumshoe, you don't see that hat. Yeah, I cannot picture... In-person participant 1: Again, Jason Mraz. No, I do love them in a film noir. And again, Double Indemnity and Maltese Falcon and all those. I do very much when it's jauntily on the side. Yeah, there's no universe where we live that if you said picture a gumshoe, you don't see that hat. I cannot picture a bear head. Sean: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, even like, does she wear a fedora and VI Warshawski? In-person participant 1: Yeah, even like, does she wear a fedora and VI Warshowski? There's one where a female ⁓ who is a detective is like, I should get a hat and I might just be making up that whole thing in my head. I don't remember. ⁓ Sean: There's one where a female who is a detective is like, I should get a hat and I might just be making up that whole thing in my head. I don't remember. I don't remember. But the fedora, just to be clear, distinguished by its soft brim and an indented crown, typically featuring a lengthwise crease and a pinch at the front on both sides. This classic design offers versatility, making it perfect for both casual and formal occasions. And I think I mentioned this, but my last tangent of the episode, I hope. But ⁓ the fedora's history dates back to 1882 when it was introduced as a stage fashion accessory in the play, Fedora by French playwright, more French, French playwright, ⁓ Victorian Sardeau. The role of Princess Fedora Ramazov, portrayed by the renowned actress Sarah Bernhardt featured a soft brimmed hat that quickly became a symbol of elegance and progressive fashion. They just started calling it a fedora based on the name of the play. Let's talk about Sarah Bernhardt for a second. My last tangent, promise you, but she's born in October of 1844. She is the daughter of Judith Bernard, who is a Dutch Jewish courtesan in Paris. Dutch Jewish courtesan. So she would later write that her father's family paid for her education. but insisted she be baptized as a Catholic and be left a large sum of money to be paid when she came of age. No one knew who her father was. We do now, but it wasn't until recently that ⁓ anybody knew her. He was an attorney that he's named. But anyway, he just gave mom a whole bunch of money and said, baptize her Catholic, give her money when she's 18. And he was never in the picture. So her mom traveled frequently. In-person participant 1: No one knew who her father was. We do now. But it wasn't until recently that... I was just going to say... Anybody knew her. He was an attorney. He's name. But anyway, he just gave mom a whole bunch of money and said, baptize her Catholic, give her money when she's 18. And he was never... Don't come here again. Yeah. So, her mom traveled frequently. Saw very little of her daughter. She had placed Barnhart with a nurse in Brittany. Then in a cottage in Paris. Sean: saw very little of her daughter. She had placed Barnhart with a nurse in Brittany, then in a cottage in Paris. But when Barnhart was seven, her mom sent her to boarding school for young ladies in the Paris suburb of to well, paid with some funds from the father's family. So that is where she acted in her first theatrical performance in a play, Cloth Hilda, where she held the queen of the fairies role. But while in boarding school, her mother rose to the top of Parisian courtesans. Consorting with politicians, bankers, generals, and writers, her patrons and friends included Charles de Mornay, also known as the Duke of Mornay, the half brother of Emperor Napoleon III. Also the president of the French legislature and the list goes on and on. ⁓ At the age of 10, with the sponsorship of the Duke of Mournay, ⁓ Barnhart was admitted to Grand Champ, an exclusive Augustine convent. At the convent she performed the part of Archangel Raphael in the story based on the book of Tobit. She declared her intention to become a nun, but didn't always follow the rules. ⁓ Spoiler alert, she's got a bit of a temper. ⁓ So here's the one funny thing I wanted to say about her. There's several. ⁓ So at the convent, by the way, ⁓ she was accused of sacrilege when she arranged a Christian burial with a procession and a ceremony for her pet lizard that just died. So she received her first communion as a Roman Catholic in 1856. And ⁓ so I just thought that that story was. In-person participant 1: So here's the one funny thing I wanted to say about her. There's several. ⁓ At the convent, by the way, ⁓ she was accused of sacrilege when she arranged a Christian burial with a procession and a ceremony for her pet lizard that just died. I'm digging. So she received her first communion as a Roman Catholic in 1856. so I just thought that that story was pretty funny. Sean: was pretty funny, but at 17 she becomes a stage actress in several plays. Like I said, her hot temper and a couple of offstage incidents led her to deciding to quit the theater. So let me just tell you, one of the incidents at the theater, ⁓ or the guy working the door, I just forgot what he was called, but he called her little Burnett. And ⁓ she hit him over the head with an umbrella and broke it. ⁓ I will say this about her though. When he retired 20 years later, she bought him a villa in Normandy. In-person participant 1: She becomes a stage actress in several plays Like I said her hot temper and a couple of offstage incidents led her to deciding to quit the theater So let me just tell you one of the incidents at the theater ⁓ The guy work at the door. just forgot what he was called, but he called her little burr bet and He she hit him over the head with an umbrella and broke it ⁓ I will say this about her though ⁓ when he retired 20 years later She bought him a villa in Normandy, but she still Sean: but she still hit him over the head with an umbrella. ⁓ then ⁓ the Duke of Morne is good friends with Alexandre Dumas, Dumas? Dumas. Dumas. Dumas? ⁓ no, Dumas. ⁓ And so ⁓ she decides to quit the theater and like her mother, travel the world and take on lovers. That was her announcement. ⁓ In-person participant 1: hit him over the head with an umbrella. ⁓ The Duke of Mourne is good friends with Alexandre Dumas? Dumas? Dumas? Dumas? no, Dumas. And so she decides to quit the theater and like her mother, travel the world and take on lovers. That was her announcement. This is fucking... I've already said I would be a courtesan if I could have said that. tells her if this is what you want to do you need to go to Spain. And then he gives her... Sean: She, so Alec, a Dumas tells her if this is what you want to do, you need to go to Spain. ⁓ and then, and then he gives her, ⁓ these letters. She carried to Brussels letters of introductions from Dumas and that got her to all the highest levels of society. Just a, just the letter, but anyway, she attends a mass ball. She attends a mass ball in Brussels and she meets Belgian aristocrat. Henry, Henri? Why am I talking about the French? He's the hereditary Prince de Ligine. And so she has an affair with this guy. The affair was cut short when she learned her mother had a heart attack, she had to return to Paris. And when she returned to Paris, her mother was better, and she was pregnant. The story, all the stories I found, because there was a couple of different versions of this, but the one I trusted, didn't she never notified the prince. In-person participant 1: on Raymory. Why am I talking about the French? He's the hereditary Prince de Ligines. And so she has an affair with this guy. Sean: never told the prince she was pregnant, had the child. And since her mother refused to have a fatherless child born under the roof, she moved to a small apartment. And in December, 1864, the 20 year old actress gave birth to her only child, Maurice, and gave him the last name of Bernhardt, which was a scandal apparently. In France, a woman naming her child with her last name, that was a big deal. In-person participant 1: And in December 1864, the 20 year old actress gave birth to her only child, Maurice, and gave it the last him the last name of Bernhardt, which was a scandal, apparently in France, a woman naming her child with her last name. That was a big deal from everything. It's OK to fuck for friendship, but it's not OK to give your. So after the birth of Maurice, she went back to the theater because she needed a job and she quickly became Sean: from everything I found. It's okay to fuck for friendship, but it's not okay to give your... So after the birth of Maurice, she went back to the theater because she needed a job. And she quickly became arguably the most famous performer in France. And that led to a worldwide tour where her first American tour, 157 performances in 51 cities, top price of a ticket, $40. In-person participant 1: arguably the most famous performer in France. And that led to a worldwide tour where her first American tour, 157 performances in 51 cities, top price of a ticket, $40. Damn. That is $1,335 today per ticket. She traveled on a special train with her own palace car, which carried two maids, two cooks, a waiter, and her maitre d'hotel. Sean: Damn! That is $1,335 today. Per ticket. She traveled on a special train with her own palace car, which carried two maids, two cooks, a waiter, and her maitre d'hotel. Her personal assistant, and it also carried an actor named Eduardo Angelino, whom she selected to serve as her leading man, and according to all accounts, her lover during her tour. From New York, she made a side trip to Menlo Park, where she met Thomas Edison, In-person participant 1: her personal assistant and it also carried an actor named Eduardo Angelino whom she selected to serve as her leading man and according to all accounts her lover during her tour. From New York she made a side trip to Menlo Park where she met Thomas Edison and he made a brief recording of her reciting a verse from Fedre which I don't know what that is because the recording did not survive unfortunately. ⁓ She started her own theater troupe which led to her buying her own theater Sean: And he made a brief recording of her reciting a verse from Fede, which I don't know what that is because the recording did not survive, unfortunately. ⁓ She started her own theater troupe, which led to her buying her own theater. And it's not the theater you think it is. The picture of this thing is stupid. It's ⁓ now called the Theater de la Ville, if you want to look it up, but it is ginormous on a river. It was amazing looking, but. ⁓ In-person participant 1: and it's not the theater you think it is. The picture of this thing is stupid. It's ⁓ now called the Theater Day LaVille, if you want to look it up, but it is ginormous on a river. It was amazing looking, but... ⁓ Good on you. So then she was also one of the early actresses to star in Moving Pictures. ⁓ And then I already said 1882. Well, I said a lot of that. Some of that was just to make you all laugh and endear her to Andrea, but... ⁓ Sean: So then she was also one of the early actresses to star in Moving Pictures. And then I already said 1882. I said a lot of that. Some of that was just to make you all laugh and endear her to Andrea. But I just wanted you to understand in 1882, when she puts on a soft felt hat in this play, it meant something. it becoming a fedora and the fedora exploding. Not saying it was only her, but I feel like she had a lot to do with it. In-person participant 1: I just wanted you to understand in 1882 when she puts on a soft felt hat in this play it meant something. So it becoming a fedora and the fedora exploding. Not saying it was only her but I feel like she had a lot to do with it. And I'm trying to not go crazy there's a lot more about her. You should look her up if you're interested she was a very fascinating person. Okay number... Sean: ⁓ And I'm trying to not go crazy. There's a lot more about her ⁓ You should look her up if you're interested. She was a very fascinating person ⁓ Okay number Where are we at? Number seven and that is belted day dresses and we're back to Andrea In-person participant 1: Number seven, that is belted day dresses. We're back to Andrea. I love a belted day dress. ⁓ As I said earlier, I loved when there was the resurgence ⁓ with Pretty Woman. And ⁓ I had a few hanging in my closet. Yeah. Sean: hanging in the closet. Yeah, I'm like about to day dress. I understand I'm not going to break the rules, but I understand the allure of it. Yeah, that's it. Okay, Lori. I love them. I think they're, I think for this, it kind of goes away from the holiday glamour because it's for the everyday lady, right? Because they could make them. In-person participant 1: I like a belted day dress. understand I'm not going to break the rules, but I understand the allure of it. Yeah, that's it. OK, Lori. I love them. think they're I think for this it kind of goes away from the Hollywood glamour because it's for the everyday lady, right? Because they could make them. They could dress them up, dress them down. So yeah, I really, I really like. I like the versatility of them very much. Okay, Michelle? Sort of to Laurie's point, they were for the everyday women, so they were versions of them, even for the stout of us all. But that they could make them so it became economically, you know, sound for them to make a dress that they could reuse in different purposes. Okay. Sean: they could dress them up, dress them down. yeah, I really like the versatility of them very much. Okay, Michelle? ⁓ Sort of to Lori's point, they were for the everyday women, so they were versions of them, even for the stout of us all, but that they could make them so it became economically sound for them to make a dress that they could reuse in different purposes. Okay. Yeah, I went on and on about Vicki and Sarah and some of the others because I don't have anything for this one and several more. ⁓ number eight is the Bolero jacket and that is Lori. Mixed feelings about Bolero jackets? I have seen bird ones that... In-person participant 1: Yeah, I went on and on about Vicki and Sarah and some of the others because I don't have anything for this one and several more. number eight is the Bolero jacket and that is Lori. Mixed feelings about Bolero jackets? I have seen fur ones that I adore and they're so dramatic and so great with those bias cut gowns, but they can also be very unflattery. So I don't have a lot of thoughts on this. I think it is iconic with a gown, but in all other applications, not for me. Sean: I think it is iconic with a gown, but in all other applications, not. Like what, other applications in. Oh yes. were not, they were more functional and not in a good way. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle. Uh, I think this is one that we have not seen a giant resurgence of. mean, in, in some forms a little bit, but the resurgence we did see was in like the very matronly mother of the bride. In-person participant 1: Like what other applications? So we talked about the mother of the bride dresses, how they were not, they were more functional and not in a good way. Right. Okay. Yeah. my opinion. Michelle? ⁓ I think this is one that we have not seen a giant resurgence of. I mean, in some forms a little bit, but the resurgence we did see was in like the very matronly mother of the bride dresses. But ⁓ I mean, some of them are stunning. Yes. Like the Skia Pirelli. looked at it. Yes. ⁓ Those are gorgeous. Right. Like and the amount of work that would have to have gone into them is crazy. Yes. Yeah, I like I said last time it's what the Bolero is now and we're talking about it in the 30s but my dis my dislike of it is what it has not even evolved into but It's 30s, especially with a strapless gown Sean: Andrea? Yeah, like I said last time, it's what the Bolero is now and we're talking about it in the 30s, but my dislike of it is what it has not even evolved into. in 30s, especially with the strapless gown, ⁓ In-person participant 1: that having that bolero jacket and the reveal, like I see where it was. It's just it's something that hasn't hasn't done well because yeah, like it it's like, let's cover up your arms. Let's you know, you certain age, you can't show your arms anymore. And and that's just bullshit. It has nothing to with age. It has to do with weight because nobody tells Jennifer Anderson, who's older than me, cover her fucking arms because she's got those arms like it's. Are you saying I'm nauseated and I'm still performing I feel like Judy fucking garland here Okay, ⁓ I Think it was Michelle who brought up these jackets were originally worn by male toreadors Because the jacket was designed to be light bright and allow for free arm movement which landed itself Sean: Are you sighing on me? No. I didn't even go up and I'm nauseated and I'm still performing. I feel like Judy fucking Garland here. Should I get you some uppers and downers? Could you? And something? Whatever. Do we have? Okay. Meet me after the show. I think it was Michelle who brought up these jackets were originally worn by male toreadors. Because in the jacket was designed to be light, bright and allow for free arm movement, which lended itself to women's fashion during the Victorian age. So as Laurie said, worn over blouses or bodices. I got very confused. I went down a Sean rabbit hole as usual with suave, because there's a suave jacket. do you? Z O U A V E. So there's a suave jacket ⁓ that during the American Civil War ⁓ era, the Bolero was associated with the embroidered jackets. In-person participant 1: of women's fashion during the Victorian age. So as Lori said, worn over blouses or bodices, I got very confused. I went down to Sean rabbit hole as usual with suave because there's a suave jacket. do you? Yeah, French Z O U A V E. I don't know that. So there's a suave jacket ⁓ that during the American Civil War ⁓ era, the Bolero was associated with the embroidered jackets of the French Algerian suave soldiers. So there is a suave jacket. They're very similar. Is it similar to the? It's similar. Yeah, but I got I got real confused. It's easy. Yeah, I got real confused. I have never heard of that one before. That's interesting. Z-O-U-A-V-E jacket. ⁓ Sean: of the French Algerian Zouave soldiers. So there is a Zouave jacket. They're very similar. It's similar. Yeah, but I got I got real confused. It's easy. It's easy. Yeah, Z O U A V E jacket. ⁓ Yeah, think that's that's it for Boleros. Got some real strong. In-person participant 1: Yeah, think that's it for Boleros. Got some. Oh, also, it was a horrible movie with. What's your name? But I've never seen the movie, but Bolero is also a music style that started in Cuba. And I believe that's what the movie is about is the music style. I was told to leave the room. Oh. Sean: But I've never seen the movie, but ⁓ Bolero is also a music style ⁓ that started in Cuba. And I believe that's what the movie's about, is the music style. ⁓ but I'm not positive. I've never seen it. number nine, Beated Evening Bags. Michelle. In-person participant 1: Michelle. Much like gloves, I like that these started out sort of utilitarian, right? You needed with the newer styles of dresses, there were no pockets. So in the evening you would need something to carry your lipstick and your powder blush and your not money. And your derring. And your tiny little pearly crested. But then as it became more popular, like then it became a fashion piece and women were... Sean: dresses there were no pockets so in the evening you would need something to carry your lipstick and your powder blush and you're not money. And your derring. Your tiny little furling crest. But then as the issue became more popular like then it became a fashion piece and women were you know making them look extravagant at home and like intricate beading work that would have In-person participant 1: you making them look extravagant at home and the like intricate beading work that would have to be done. Yeah, it's impressive. Laurie, you want to ask your friend there? Yes, no. do you think about these? I think they're great because again, Michelle was talking how people could make them. Sean: Lori, you want to ask your friend there? Yes, what are you thinking I always like to thoughts on these. I think they're great because, again, Michelle was talking how people could make them and in many different shapes, many different styles, but I like both. like the, because they can be sparkly. If you didn't have pockets, which is traf-sty. In-person participant 1: And had many different shapes, many different styles. But I like both. like the, because they can be sparkly. If you didn't have pockets, which is travesty, first of all. Word. But I think they're a great piece. think, yeah, think they're perfect. Sean: Andrea and all this All this is a big fan. He likes it. I saw Rachel's oh with this Beated bag yesterday not like in person on TV Rachel and I aren't really hanging out, but it was a do not disturb In-person participant 1: Andrea and Albus? Um, uh, Albus is a big fan. likes it. saw Rachel Zoe with this, uh, beaded bag yesterday. Not like in person on TV. Rachel and I aren't really hanging out, but it was a do not disturb. It was so cool. It was like vintage somebody that I could never afford, but, um, I do. I did make a mistake last time. just- one because I re-listened to the last one earlier today and I said that my mom had a box. No, she did not have a box of these. It was actually a drawer in her closet. full... Do you remember my parents' closet? No. Okay. No. Why would you? But, ⁓ but they had built-ins and I just remembered that the bottom drawer was all of the bags and I, I do, I like to... Sean: It was like vintage somebody that I could never afford but I do. I did make a mistake last time. I just wanted because I re-listened to the last one earlier today and I said that my mom had a box. No, she did not have a box of these. It was actually a drawer in her closet. Like, hold. Do you remember my parents closet? No. No. In-person participant 1: I I need to bring that back because that purse is too big. Sean: Why would you? But they had built-ins and I just remembered the bottom drawer was all of the bags. I do, like to, I think I need to bring that back because my purse is too big. Okay. We went, number 10 is gloves, but I feel like we talked about that in the opening. I just want to make sure there's no saved rounds here. Anybody have anything else on gloves? No. Okay. Okay. So let's. In-person participant 1: Okay, we went number 10 is gloves, but I feel like we talked about that in the opening I just want to make sure there's no safe grounds here anybody have anything else on the gloves Okay, okay so I Would ask you to remember what we were talking about is an item or a style so to speak ⁓ that if Opened by aliens in the capsule they immediately Sean: Do it. I want to, I would ask you to remember what we were talking about is an item or a style, so to speak, ⁓ that if opened by aliens in the capsule, they immediately know this is from this decade. That's what we're going on. Not if you love it, hate it, any of that. Would it? Yes, representative of this decade. In-person participant 1: know this is from this decade. That's what we're going on. Now if you love it, hate it, any of that... Representative... Yes, representative of this decade, upon with no further explanation. With that being said, number one is a bias-cut gallon. Andrea? Yes. Laurie? Yes. Michelle? Yes. Sean: upon with no further explanation. With that being said, number one is a bias cut gown, Andrea. Yes. Laurie. Yes. Michelle. Yes. In-person participant 1: Not that exciting for you. yet. Number 2, wide-leg pants. Lori? Yes. Michelle? Hell yes. Andrea? What they said. Number 3, double-breasted suit. Michelle? No. Andrea? No. Lori? No. Evening cake? Andrea? No. Sean: No, not yet. Number two, wide legged pants. Lori. Yes. Michelle. yes. Andrea. What they said. Number three, double breasted suit. Michelle. Andrea? No. Laurie? No. Evening cape ⁓ Andrea? No. Laurie? No. Michelle? Yes. You did that just for me. Number five backless dress Laurie? In-person participant 1: Laurie? No. Michelle? Yes. You're lucky. five, backless dress. Laurie? I'm torn on this after the story that you said earlier. I'm going to say no. Michelle? No. Andrea? Sean: say no. Okay Michelle? No. Andrea? In-person participant 1: No. six, Felt Fedora. Do you want us to fight, Yes. Very much so. Michelle. No. Andrea. Sean: No. Number six felt fedora. Yes. Michelle Andrea. In-person participant 1: Yes. Lori? I also say yes. Sean: Yes. Lori? Number seven, belted day dress Andrea. No. Lori. In-person participant 1: seven belted day dress Andrea no Laurie yes Michelle yes number eight Bolero jacket Laurie no Michelle no Andrea boo number nine beaded evening bag Michelle yes Sean: Michelle. Now we're talking. Number 8, Bolero jacket, Lori? Michelle? Andrea? Number nine, Beaded Evening Bag, Michelle? Andrea? Yes. Lori? In-person participant 1: Andrea? Yes. Laurie? Yes. Sean: And number 10 gloves evening and day or day and evening Andrea. No. Laurie. No, I love a glove but no. Michelle. No. Okay, so we have we're in on In-person participant 1: Man number 10 gloves evening and day or day and evening. Andrea. No. Laurie. You know, I love a glove, no. No. Okay. So we have, we're in. We have three, right? Bias, cut gown, wide-leg trousers, and beaded bags were... That is correct. Be... So we are... Sean: We have three, right? Bias, cut gown, wide leg trousers and beaded bags. That is correct. So we are good. Good. Good. have three. So. In-person participant 1: Good? We have three. So. Sean: That's gone. Sorry, give me one second. I'm just trying to figure out where we have some disagreement. Okay, not there. Okay, so number four, the evening cape. Michelle is a yes against two nos. Michelle, state your case. I think when I see it, I don't think about any other time period. I see like red carpets, I see people arriving at... In-person participant 1: Sorry, give me one second, I'm just trying to figure out where we have some screaming. Okay. So number four, the evening cape. Michelle is a yes against two no's. Michelle, state your case. I think when I see it, I don't think about any other time period. I see like red carpets. I see people arriving at the theater, but I don't place that in any other time frame but the thirties or, you know, thereabouts, but not in it. Like if you showed me a picture and said, what decade is this? Sean: the theater but I don't place that in any other time frame but the 30s In-person participant 1: I'd probably guess late 20s, early, you know, into the 30s. Because you just don't, nobody wears them anymore. Even on dresses that, even modern dresses with something kind of like it, it's still a much, it's not the same, nobody wears a full length cape anymore. No, it's an affectation now. It's not like, you like her. is he a magician? I'm sorry, illusionist. Michael? I'm an illusionist, Michael. Poor Des Trix. ⁓ Sean: ⁓ Andrea that's a really good argument I Will change my to a yes because I to only see it in the 30s or Florence Nightingale. That's like Yeah, Lori ⁓ In-person participant 1: ⁓ That's a really good argument I will change mine to a yes because I I to only see it in the 30s or Florence Nightingale. That's like the only yeah. Yeah and you don't see any other 20s. mean, after the 30s, the 40s, they weren't wearing capes to their premieres or yeah. mean, the illusionists were still there. Okay. It's an illusion. Excellent argument. I will also change my vote. It's in. It is in. Now our next one here is number seven. Sean: And you don't see any other 20s. I mean after the 30s, the 40s, they weren't wearing capes to their premieres or yeah. mean the illusionists or something. Wow. Okay. It's an illusion. That's excellent argument and I will also change that. It's in. It is in. Now our next one here is number seven, which is belted day dresses. And Andrea, you are the only no on this. In-person participant 1: which is belted day dresses. And Andrea, you are the only no on this. Defend your position, please. Oh, I was just being contrary. You said you want a drama. I don't have an opinion. No, no, I, after I said no, then I was thinking on it. When I picture a belted day dress, I picture the fifties. Sean: Defend your position, please. ⁓ I was just being contrary. You said you wanted drama. I don't have an opinion. ⁓ no. No, no. I. After I said no, then I was thinking on it. When I when I picture a belted day dress, I picture the 50s. In-person participant 1: Like the June Cleaver? The June Cleaver, yes. Yes, I don't think of the 30s. I really don't. That's the only reason that I... Lori, how do you feel about that? Valid. I was thinking more along the lines of the... Sean: Like the June Cleaver? The June Cleaver. Yes. Yes. I don't think of the 30s. I really don't. That's the only reason that I... Lori, how do you feel about that? Well, that's valid. I was thinking more along the lines of the time or the money saving aspect of it when the ladies used to wear it, but that's true. In-person participant 1: the time or the money saving aspect of it when the ladies used to wear it. But that's true. When you see 30s and you may not think of something like you said, that's purely for that decade, like a cape or a bias cut gown. That's a really good argument. It's a good point. And I think a lot of that has to do with television. Yes. Right. That's when we saw them. Right. That's when we would have seen them like in, you know. But I have to admit too that I felt like yes. Our Lamar jeans. Sean: Or yeah, I lean more towards it's a point and I think a lot of that has to do with television Yes, yeah, that's when we saw them right? That's when we would have seen them like in you know But I have to admit to that I thought like yes Margie yes like that where but Wallace I think of Wallace Simpson and she could wear the fuck out of it a belted day dress like she was very she and and the abdicator were very like ⁓ In-person participant 1: like that where but Wallace I think of Wallace Simpson and she could wear the fuck out of it a belted day dress like she was very she and and the abdicator were very like you know they were very fashion forward people but I mean then I take your point on that but definitely would I lean more 50 yeah I would change my mind on that I also would so we're going belted day dress Sean: They were very fashion forward people took from them. I take your point on that I definitely would I lean more to be So we're going belted daydress, you're saying no. ⁓ thank goodness. Okay? In-person participant 1: No, no, no, you're saying no. I thinking of a different perspective totally. Okay. TV. Yeah. Good. And I would, I would embrace, uh, so you were a no for felt fedora, right? I was coming back to that. Sean: Okay. And I would, I would embrace that. So you are a no for Felt Fedora, right? I was. I'm coming back to that. But let's do it. I'm worried that we're a yes. Yeah, Michelle. Same argument. You see it in so many other places and still today. Yeah. in movies and TV that I don't think about it purely as the 30s. In-person participant 1: Let's get worried. I were yes. Yeah, Michelle same argument you see it in so many other places and still today Yeah in movies and TV that I don't think about it purely as the 30s I in fact would I would tag it more in the next decade when we get a lot more. Yes film noir stuff We're gonna get a lot. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, you know that's in fact. I take back my I Take back my yes on the felt fedora. I do see it more in 40s. It would if you showed me Fred McBurry I would lean more, you know, it's yeah Yeah, I just don't think about it solely as that decade. Yeah is my only argument I Try to go off to what I'm like when you send us the list what I'm surprised at and go ⁓ this was part of that decade. So Okay, so we're saying No on the Felfedora. I am Laurie might still be a yes Sean: I try to go off to when I'm like when you send us the list what I'm surprised at and go ⁓ this was part of that decade so okay so we're saying no on the felt fedora I am Laurie might still be Laurie I think you're absolutely spot on with that because I think it does have it is more prevalent and that also may have something to do I mean because of my TV really didn't come out till the late 40s but a lot of movies In-person participant 1: I think you're absolutely spot on with that because I think it is more prevalent and that also may have something to do. mean, because my TV really didn't come out until the late 40s, but a lot of movies had that whole... All the hard boiled detective stuff. The Seamus, the private dick. So yeah, I think I'm going to change my mind as well. Sean: So I'll admit this to anyone listening I think I made a mistake somewhere so I need your all's help to I have four Yeses, yeah, we have four now. We do not have a fifth. Yes. I I know but in looking at my notes So listen, let me just recap this real quick In-person participant 1: So I'll admit this to anyone listening. I think I made a mistake somewhere. So I need your help to I have four yeses. Yeah, we have four now. We do not have a fifth. Yes. I know. But in looking at my notes. So listen, let me just recap this real quick. Number one, you were all yeses. Yes. I'm sorry. On a bias cut gown, you're all yes. Yes. On a wide legged pants, you were all yes. Yes. On a double breasted suit, you were all no's. Sean: On number one, were all yeses. Yes. I'm sorry. On a bias cut gown, you were all yeses. Yes. On a wide legged pants, you were all yeses. Yes. On a double breasted suit, you were all nos. Correct. Yeah. On an evening cape, was as Michelle said yes, the other two said no, we changed that vote. Yes. So we have three. Yes. Then on backless dresses, you were all nos. On a felt fedora, Michelle was a no. The other two were yeses. That In-person participant 1: On an evening cape, was, as said yes, the other two said no, we changed that vote. So we have three. Then on ⁓ backless dresses, you were all nos. On a felt fedora, ⁓ was a no, the other two were yeses, that changed to all nos. Number seven is a belted day dress where ⁓ Andrea was the only no and June Cleaver turned it so they're all nos. Sean: changed to all nos. Number seven is a belted day dress where ⁓ Andrea was the only no and June Cleaver turned it so they're all nos. Number eight Bolero jacket you were all nos across the board. Number nine beaded evening bags you were all yeses across the board. Number 10 gloves you were all nos across the board. We have four that's what I'm saying to you. In-person participant 1: Yes, number eight Bolero jacket. We were all you were all knows across the board number nine beaded evening bags Number ten gloves you were all knows across the board. So yeah, that's our so we only have four You have to revote on one of these no, so we only have four four It's our fucking podcast Sean: You have to revote on one of these. So we only have four. It's our fucking podcast. So this is interesting though. this is a very, okay. So I will, I, I will take four. I want to go back to what I said in a previous episode is I feel like the thirties was an overlooked decade of fashion. I tried to present a list of 20. In-person participant 1: So this is interesting though. is a very, okay. So I will take four. I want go back to what I said in a previous episode is I feel like the thirties was an overlooked decade of fashion. I tried to present a list of 20 quality items that you find it, but in our, in the discussion that we had, even out of those 20, Sean: quality items that defined it, but in the discussion that we had, even out of those 20, there's only four things that actually represent the decade. It's very difficult to look at. something from the 30s, my opinion, and go, that's from the 30s. My note, my only note for this, for this episode was 30s fashion is a hard one because of the bracket between the 20s and the 40s. Yes, that's my content. That is what I'm putting forward. All right. So, hey, we have four. Yeah. Okay. So the four items, bias cut gown, wide leg pants, an evening cape. In-person participant 1: There's only four things that actually represent the decade. It's very difficult to look at something from the 30s, my opinion, and go, that's from the 30s. My only note for this episode was 30s fashion is a hard one because of the bracket between the 20s and the 40s. Yes, that is what I'm looking I knew you were going to run. All right, so we have four. Yeah. OK, so the four items, bias cut gown, wide leg pants, an evening cape, and beaded evening bags. I love it. That's our four. Yeah. And maybe it was more about the thirties were about ideology, about the transition from, you know, the term of the century, the first couple of decades. Maybe it's like, this is like people are really being noticed for their fashion. Yeah. It was more of, like you said, like a transitional. Sean: and beaded evening bags. I love it. That's our four. transition you know, the turn of the century, the first couple of decades, maybe it's like, this is like people really being noticed for their fashion. Yeah. It was more of like you said, like a transitional. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Lori. In-person participant 1: Yeah. Wow. Yay. Okay. Lori. you. See you in the 40s. We'll see you in the 40s for fashion. See you the 40s. Michelle and Andrea, thank you for all the time, the research, everything that you bring. attitude? Well, including that and what you bring to the show. Sean: Thank you. We'll see you in the 40s for fashion. Michelle and Andrea, thank you for all the time, the research, everything that you bring. ⁓ I'm including that and what you bring to the show, Andrea. Thank you all and then anybody listening. ⁓ I'd really open it up. ⁓ What do you think about us not finding five items? ⁓ Let us know, hit us up on socials, leave comment wherever you're listening to the podcast. You know, if we jump the shark, ⁓ it's not the 50s. But if we fell apart on the podcast, ⁓ let us know. Hit us up, but just remember, we regret nothing.