Latest / Todd's World / Sin Is Crouching at Your Door – Cain & Abel's Shocking Story | Genesis 4 | Beers With Jesus
Transcript
- Todd: Welcome everyone to beers with Jesus Happy Mother's Day everyone. We're recording on Mother's Day. I know you guys aren't gonna get it till Wednesday. yeah, so this is our beers with We're going through On here what we do is we just walk through stories of the Bible. We use the message ⁓ translation because I like it. I think I happen to think it's the best and ⁓ most narrative and I like narrative and we're we try to focus on the story. We're going through Genesis right now and let me just tell you if you have not listened to the last the past couple beers of Jesus you should with the one on Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 where we talk about both the creation and the garden. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Todd: of Eden the creation of man in the Garden of Eden in two the tree of life tree of knowledge good name then we go into the Fallen Garden three and so or time in Garden three in chapter three So Anyway, I thought they were fabulous. You really should go back and listen to him. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. They were. Todd: with it. We're in Genesis four now, so ⁓ I'm excited about it. And I did want say for the, the, for the Genesis stuff, we're to run into it in this chapter today. And so I just want to lay this out as kind of a, ⁓ of a, of a working principle that, that using appears with Jesus for this. ⁓ I understand that people have all kinds of that science has disagreements with the Genesis story. Yo, It's Carrie: Me too. Todd: That people are like, ⁓ there's no way that everybody came from Adam and Eve. You could ask Grok and Grok be like, that's preposterous, whatever. I get all of that. But for our purposes, ⁓ we're, we like to look at the stories and I feel like God is revealing himself to us through these stories. So we're going to take the stories that face value. I'm not going to argue a lot of the science stuff. There's lots of podcasts that do that. And, and, and it's great. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. There are, you're right. Todd: I don't have any issue with it. And you know what? If I found out that there was a gap between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 and that God created humans and then He kind of dove in a million years later and honed in on Adam and Eve and that there was other humans around, none of that would bother me. None of that would have anything to do with Jesus dying on the cross to me. But, so I can live with it either way. ⁓ For our purposes, Yo, It's Carrie: We don't care if there are dinosaurs walking around the Garden of Eden. Like, it's fine. I'm okay too. I really struggled with this and I brought it up to Todd off the show and said, I struggle with this. I struggle with the populating the earth with these two people. It doesn't jive with me and I'm trying to be realistic and I'm trying to have discernment and all that. And you know what? ⁓ I prayed about it and then Todd came to me with Todd: I'm easy either way, you know? Yo, It's Carrie: essentially what he just told you. And I was like, that's exactly where I landed after praying about it. It was like, you know what? That's, yeah, it was like, you know what? That's not what we're trying to do on this, on this show. We're, just going through the story and we're talking about it as it's presented to us. And like you said, what God's revealing to us as we explore it. And I'm totally fine with that now. And I feel such a peace about it. So, so thank you for saying it the way you did. Yep. Todd: The Holy Spirit was leading us. Yeah. So we're just going to take it at face value. So as I, and I'm going to give you an, an, an, at least a couple ideas I have on why maybe it could have worked with just Adam and Eve, but I want to be upfront. I'm not a scientist. So whatever. I don't know. And I'm not going to argue. Right. I'm not, I'm like Katanji. I'm not going to argue with you about things if you think it's a different way. And I don't know all the science. So you may be able to tell me how the coral reefs tell me this, that, and the other. I don't know. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. You're not a biologist. Right. Right. Todd: Okay. I'm okay. But I think the stories service. Yeah. Yeah. And I just don't think it changes overall that much. At least it doesn't for me. Maybe it does for certain people. But for me, if I found out that Genesis was more symbolic and more myth than I thought and a little less historical, but yet the stories had the same purpose, I'd be okay. Whatever. Whatever, God, however you want to do it. ⁓ I'm cool. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. We are comfortable with not knowing everything. Yeah. Mm-mm. Same. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's a healthy level of humility and it's good for us to be that way. Todd: I just... So anyway, so that's how we're approaching it, just so everybody knows. If you don't, yeah, you're like, listen, you guys aren't getting into the Nephilim and the giants and whatever, it's only because there's a lot of things we don't know and I don't know. But there's so much that we have that we can get out of it, so I figure we'll just, we'll stick with that for now. We'll let God handle the rest. So, if God wants to argue with the scientists, that's up to Him. It all makes sense. Yo, It's Carrie: Yep. Humble lens. Yeah. Right. Wait! Well, okay. I don't think he wants to do that through us. Yeah, not through you and I, you and me, not through you and me. All right. Todd: Right. Exactly. So. Okay, so that's the lens we're doing it through. We are in chapter four of Genesis. So the fall has already happened in chapter three. Adam and Eve have been kicked out of the Garden of Eden. And this is exactly, so the last paragraph, in fact, of chapter three is, God expelled them from the Garden of Eden, sent them to work the ground, the same dirt out of which they'd been made. He threw them out of the garden, stationed an angel chair of them and a revolving sword of fire east of it. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: guarding the path to the tree of life. So man is not gonna be able to get to the tree of life on our own, I think. We're not gonna be able to get back into the garden on our own. But we're gonna see that we try. So that doesn't stop us. Just cause God says no, you're gonna find there's a big strain of humanity that says yes. So okay, I'm gonna start, I'm reading today and I'm just gonna read the whole Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. Right. Todd: Chapter 4 Yo, It's Carrie: Chapter four, okay. Todd: Adam slept with Eve, his wife. ⁓ She conceived and had Cain. She said, I've a with God's help. Then she had another baby, Abel. Abel was a herdsman and a Time passed. Yo, It's Carrie: Yep. Todd: Cain brought an offering to God from the produce of his farm. Abel also brought an offering. From the first born animals of his herd, choice cuts of meat. God liked Abel and his offering, but Cain and his offering didn't get his approval. Cain lost his temper and went into a sulk. God spoke to Cain, why this tantrum? Why the sulking? If you do well, won't you be accepted? And if you don't do well, Sin is lying in wait for you ready to pounce. It's out to get you. You have to master it." Cain had words with his brother. They were out in the field. Cain came at Abel, his brother, and killed him. God said to Cain, where is Abel, your brother? He said, how should I know? Am I his babysitter? ⁓ God said, what have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is calling to me from the ground. From now on, you'll get nothing but curses from this ground. You'll be driven from this ground that has opened its arms to receive the blood of your murdered brother. You'll farm this ground, but it will no longer give you its best. You'll be a homeless wanderer on earth. Cain said to God, my punishment is too much. I can't take it. You've thrown me off the land. and I can never ever face you. I can never ever again, I can never again face you. I'm a homeless wanderer on earth and whoever finds me will kill me. God told him no, anyone who kills Cain will pay for it seven times over. God put a mark on Cain to protect him so that no one who met him would kill him. Cain left. the presence of God and lived in no man's land east of Eden. Cain slept with his wife. She conceived and had Enoch. He then built a city and named it after his son, Enoch. Enoch had Ired. Ired had Mahugel, whatever. Mahugel had Methuselah. Methuselah had Lamech. Lamech married two wives, Ada and Zilla. Ada gave birth to Jabal. the ancestor of all who live in tents and herd cattle. His brother's name was Jubal, the ancestor of all who play the lyre and flute. Zilla gave birth to Tubal Cain, who worked at the forge making bronze and iron tools. Tubal Cain's sister was Nama. Lamek said to his wives, Ada and Zilla, listen to me, you wives of Lamek, hear me out. I killed a man for wounding me, a young man who attacked me. If Cain is avenged seven times for Lamech, it's 77. Adam slept with his wife again. She had a son whom she named Seth. She said, God has given me another child in place of Abel whom Cain killed. And then Seth had a son whom he named Enosh. That's when men and women began praying and worshiping in the name of the Lord. There you go, Kerry. What do you think? Yo, It's Carrie: Good job. Good job. That's a lot of names. I hate... Todd: ⁓ You know what's even more confusing? Is that some of the same names are in the line of Kane and the line of Seth Noah's dad is named Lamech but it's not the same Lamech who had two wives ⁓ Yo, It's Carrie: Okay, thank you. It's so funny, because when you read that, I'm like, I know that name. And then I'm thinking, maybe I just remember it from this. So I, yeah, I just, I hate this story so much. And here we are, it's it's Mother's Day. I think it's, I think it is, as a mom, it's, one of my biggest concerns for my children is that they remain close. Todd: Mm-hmm. It's a little confusing. Yo, It's Carrie: I hate the idea of there being any disharmony among my kids. And so I hate this story. I remember this from when I was little. I remember just being really shocked by it. What about you? Do you remember? Yeah, was this like, I mean, this story must've been a shock to all kids when they were first heard it. It's like, what? You know, I don't know. What do you think? Do you remember that? Todd: Yeah. ⁓ really? It's interesting because yeah, it does seem like it seems like the fall now we're watching the fall Kind of move down. You know what? I mean? Like like like so we saw this this this breaking apart of this relationship between Adam and even God and Then now we see that we see this the drive for independence the choice of I'm gonna do it my way we see that Yo, It's Carrie: Yes. Mm-hmm. Todd: filtering down into the next generations and how we're going to see it go all the way through. And then also you kind of see these like these two lines. Now at first you've got these two sons, you've got Cain and Abel. But after Cain kills Abel, God replaces Abel and you're still going to have these two lines. And it's interesting to me that it all revolves around We think that when God kicked man out of the garden, Adam and Eve, we have this idea that all of a sudden there was a break in the relationship with God, that man was separated from God. But that doesn't exactly seem to be how the story's told. Like God's still involved. In fact, him coming to talk to Cain kind of mirrors with Cain hiding once he kills Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: Abel how Adam and Eve hid from God once they had eaten the fruit. You can see those parallels exactly the same way that that that God and what's going on with with them bringing an offering God clearly God had Had dealt I mean that there was something my point is that that there wasn't this pure separation from God God's still in relationship to some extent now There's some alienation and there's some there are some some separation. They're not they can't eat of the tree of life, you know all these things Yo, It's Carrie: Mm hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: But God hasn't made himself unapproachable. Does that make sense? Yo, It's Carrie: Yes, yeah, completely. Yeah, I was curious. Todd: But as Cain found, we don't get to choose how we approach him. That's what Cain... Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, so it's not, I was gonna say, it's not very clear. What do you think? mean, are we supposed to infer from this that Cain's offering was, I mean, ⁓ Abel's offering is the choice, like choice meat from the first born animals of his herd. Are we to infer from this that Cain's offering from his farm was half-hearted? the best from his crap or what how do you interpret that Todd: I suspect it had more to do with the people than the offerings. In this particular scenario, God hasn't set the law out. He hasn't said, listen, this is how you're to approach me with offerings. You you have a lamb, have doves, whatever. That we know of, God hasn't done that. He may have done the beginnings of that. And he may have told them, listen, I you to bring me the choice, whatever. But what's interesting is that Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Todd: It says that Cain brought an offering to God from the produce of his farm. Abel also brought an offering from the firstborn animals, choice cuts of meat. And the way that it says it, and this is almost across the board in translations, this wouldn't be unique to the message. It says God liked Abel in his offering, but Cain in his offering didn't get his approval. It puts the person first, which makes me think, it makes me think that God liked Abel. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Todd: And because of that, God loved Abel's offering, but ⁓ there was a spirit ⁓ of rebelliousness in Cain, think. A spirit of independence, spirit of going his own way. You know what I mean? I don't know exactly how that made itself manifest in his offering, but my guess is however it did it in his offering, it was probably carried over from how that same strain was showing itself in his entire life. there was a spirit ⁓ of rebelliousness in Cain, think. A spirit of independence, spirit of going his own way. You know what I mean? I don't know exactly how that made itself manifest in his offering, but my guess is however it did it in his offering, it was probably carried over from how that same strain was showing itself in his entire life. You understand what I'm saying? You get the feeling because God, when he comes to him, that's the other thing is that God doesn't. God comes to Cain. He cares enough that he's like, listen, because Cain loses his shit, right? He's just, he loses his temper. He goes into a sulk. He's pissed off because God likes Abel and doesn't like him and he take everything's taken personally. You know what I mean? And, and, God's like, listen, why are you so upset? You understand what I'm saying? You get the feeling because God, when he comes to him, that's the other thing is that God doesn't. God comes to Cain. He cares enough that he's like, listen, because Cain loses his shit, right? He's just, he loses his temper. He goes into a sulk. He's pissed off because God likes Abel and doesn't like him and he take everything's taken personally. You know what I mean? And, and, God's like, listen, why are you so upset? Why all this sulking? If you do well, you'll be accepted. And if you don't do well, sin is lying at the door. You have to master it. Cain never does that. And most to Cain's line, most of the people who never seek God, who never know God, never master what God's talking about. Why all this sulking? If you do well, you'll be accepted. And if you don't do well, sin is lying at the door. You have to master it. Cain never does that. And most to Cain's line, most of the people who never seek God, who never know God, never master what God's talking about. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: And I think maybe that's the difference in the lines is that Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: The faithful line, the faithful redmet, tries to deal with and master the sin in them that's crouching at the door. You know what I mean? We may not always do it well, we may not always do it successfully, but we at least recognize that it's there. With Cain, you don't get that, that... Yo, It's Carrie: and try and have like the spirit of effort. And it sounds like maybe Cain, yeah. Todd: Well, Cain's just mad. Cain's just reactive. There's nothing proactive about Cain. It's just everything's a reaction. You know what I mean? Like he just reacts to everything. And so, and you see it and it's not, and then he goes from getting mad at God to mad at his brother. And he has words with his brother. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. For having a good offering and Able deserved better, I'm just saying. Todd: And I don't know about you, but I do notice about myself that for whatever reason, when I get kind of annoyed with things, when I get a little pissed off about something, I ruminate on it for a while. And I think, what, I'm going to have words with this person. I think about the words I'm going to have. Now, as I try to move along in grace, there's times now where I'll hear the Spirit and I'll think, just shut up and give it a day. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. Todd: And I'd like, that's all. Just, just, if you just give it a day, I don't think you'll feel this way tomorrow. Cause it's all emotions. You know what I mean? It's all, it's all how I feel. And like, they don't understand how smart I am. And that really bothers me. And people don't understand that. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ nice. Mm-hmm. Yes. Todd: And if I can just... Yo, It's Carrie: I can imagine that being a struggle for you, Todd. I really can. Todd: If I can, if I can listen to the spirit and if I can shut up, even if I still feel it, if I can just not say it, usually it'll wear off and usually God would be like, just forgive him. I forgave you for way more. you know what I mean? But, but right in that emotional time, it's hard to get there. I don't think Kane got there. I don't think. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. No, he didn't do the tadpaws. He didn't pause to say, right, right. Todd: No, he did not do a pause. He was angry. And listen, we can see where anger led him. We don't know that he disliked his brother per se. It really reads a little bit more like, ⁓ oddly, like a crime of passion almost. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right, like he just, lost his temper and. Todd: Yeah, what do you think, Harry? Yo, It's Carrie: Well, that's what it seems like to me, but ⁓ as you pointed out, the way God reacts to his offering, know, he's also reacting to Cain. And then we see his reactive, you know, his response and it's sulking and whatever. So he definitely seems focused on the self rather than who the offering is for. We don't know what the parameters were, but you can tell by his reaction that. Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: that that's the case for him. that makes sense to me. ⁓ Todd: Cain seems way more worried about making the story about Cain. Do you know what I mean? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. But but it's it's interesting to me how he knows immediately like he's he screwed everything up. It's it's really it's exactly like what happened with Adam and Eve. ⁓ So, yeah, him hiding and like, you know, I don't know, like I just it's kind of funny. You know, we watched this. Todd: You put me in charge of Able? I didn't know. I have his leash. Yo, It's Carrie: We watch this from the outside and think, why do think you can hide this from God? And yet, you know, we think it's funny. And yet I think we do that all the time in our own lives. You know, we have our own challenges and we try to, you know, separate that in our minds in such a way that like, well, this doesn't have anything to do with my relationship with God. And I'm sure God's watching it just going like, what are you doing? Todd: Yeah. Yo, It's Carrie: Ha ha ha! Todd: Well, it's interesting if in one of his little devotional things at the very end, Eugene Peterson says, if we treat God with contempt, it won't be long before we will be treating our brother or sister with contempt as well. And I think that's a good point. ⁓ That's where we see the fall like crap rolls downhill. Right? And it does. And it keeps spreading out. Yo, It's Carrie: Mmm. That's And the converse of that is true too. If you, as people get more mature in their faith or they start to embrace, you know, embrace church and a relationship with God and they start to pursue that, it starts to affect how they treat people as well, like in a positive way. Todd: Yeah, I think that's true. I think that that, ⁓ I've found that in life and I think we talked about this when we talked about in Mark, long time ago it feels like now, about the parable of the seeds in the sower, the sower and the seeds. And so the sower is going out and he's sowing and the seed falls on four different kinds of soil. It falls on the rocky path and it's immediately, you know, the seed is the Word of God. Jesus actually interprets this parable and he says, Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Todd: This, devil comes and he eats it up. So it's, so fast that people can't even get it. doesn't mean anything. Cause they're, they're, your ground is so hard packed. Then it falls on some, some gravelly soils shoots up, but it doesn't have any roots. The sun comes out any kind of persecution that it drowns. And then you have the thorns. Some falls in good, but, the thorns come up and it chokes out the good seed. And then of course the final is, is the good seed that sprouts and it grows a whole harvest. Well, we took that in and reversed it to where. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: You go through your life and you plant a bunch of bad seeds. I think there is a point to the fact that as you come back to God, you accept, as you get God back involved in the dirt of your life, that, and as you start to plant good seeds, know, you start seeds that are ⁓ the fruits of the spirit, gentleness, kindness, you know, as you start to plant these seeds, sometimes, Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: Sometimes we don't reap what we sow. Thank God. Sometimes those good seeds can come out and they can choke out some of those bad seeds. You know what I mean? Like that's how merciful God is. That's how much His grace and His mercy, that's how much He yearns to just kind of cover us, if that makes sense. Cover our shame, like He did with Adam and Eve. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. We went and picked up groceries after church today. And one of my favorite, this is relevant, I promise Todd. One of my favorite, one of my favorite running guys, one of my favorite running guys, his name is Matt. ⁓ I know that he is like deeply spiritual and he, we usually exchange a couple of little like, know, God bless type of. Todd: I- you're wrong. Equal time! Yo, It's Carrie: you know, exchanges. Well, today I said, ⁓ we just came from church and he's like, ⁓ and he starts like, he almost starts preaching right there as we're like unloading the groceries or loading them rather. And anyway, at one point he said, it was so beautiful. He said, there is more of, more of God's grace in the world than sin in the world. Todd: I think that's true. It's hard for us to believe sometimes, but it's only perspective, I think, that puts us there. You know what I mean? It's no different than when things are going bad and we feel like everything goes bad, or when things are going good and we think everything goes good. We're fickle people. Yo, It's Carrie: I think it's true too. Yes. I was like, such a great reminder. Right. Right, but I do think that focusing on that, like we're talking about, you know, where are you, where are you sowing seeds? I think that focusing on that does make you feel hopeful, optimistic, and I think it helps you to see more of, more grace than sin. anyway, yeah. Todd: Bye. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting that blood is crying out, Abel's blood is crying out from the ground. I guess that's got to symbolize justice, right? The cry of humanity, the cry of creation, maybe of all creation, for justice. God made us with a sense of justice because that's in God. And God's saying, right now what you've done is crying out to me for justice. It's crying out for me to fix it. You know? To deal with it. Yo, It's Carrie: I was thinking it's just the transgression. It leads to God's justice. But yeah, it's such a powerful image. And it's so sad because you think you never would expect to, I'm sure Abel never expected to die at the hand of his brother. ⁓ I know. It's sad. Todd: And he deals with it. that too. No. And I'm sure Adam and Eve never even entered their mind. But that's how fast the wrench of independence that's thrown in by the serpent and picked up by Adam and Eve, how fast it starts to mess with the gears and the wiring and everything else that God has kind of put into creation. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-mm. Of course. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Mmm. Todd: ⁓ what else you got, Carrie? Yo, It's Carrie: I wanted to ask about ⁓ what is this, ⁓ what is him saying? Like I'm a homeless wanderer on earth, this is Kane afterwards. Whoever finds me will kill me. ⁓ What is that? Does he feel like he's just lost, I don't know, was he protected in some way before? Todd: Well, if we take the story for what it is, then everybody out there is some form of a brother or sister or relative or cousin to Cain, but also to Abel. And they may not like that he killed their brother. You know what I mean? And this is, I mean, this is, it must be, it's portrayed as such and I don't think there's any reason to think there's not. This is the first time violence, mankind, man on man violence. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Okay, that's fair. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: has entered creation. Like God's created greatest creation using the faculties that he gave him to harm and to kill another member of his creation. I don't think that it's just, it's yeah. And I think he's worried that people try to kill him. So God's mark that he puts on him, even that is something of a mercy by God. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. I was surprised to hear that. I had forgotten about that. Todd: Cain isn't, when we look at how God deals with Cain, doesn't kick Cain out, he doesn't do this, he's trying to correct Cain. He's trying to help him, truthfully. He's like, listen, listen, you can do better, like I know you can. That's why I'm not happy with what you're doing right now, because you've got so much more in you. Just come back to me in dependence instead of, Yo, It's Carrie: It seems like it. Mm-hmm. Todd: instead of just that red hot rebellion of independence. You know what I mean? Yeah. There were everything is about, I mean, if you look at the way Cain goes about life in this entire thing, everything is about Cain. He is so self-absorbed. And I mean, that's it. That's humanity. You know what I mean? Just selfish. Everything is about Cain. Even once he's cursed, it's about Cain and how he can't live. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. With your tantrum. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: God's made it so that everybody's gonna kill him Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Like I can't. Right. Like, and it's too much. I can't take, like, I can't take this. It's too much. Like, dude, you killed your brother. Like, what the hell? Todd: Right. That cane never responds. There's never anything resembling a turning in Kane. There's never anything resembling repentance of any sort that we see at all. It's always, like I say, reactionary. It's like, what is Where's Abel? Well, I don't know. Why are you asking me? Like, that's what he... I don't know. Maybe because you were just with him. Maybe because you just had words with him. Yo, It's Carrie: No, it doesn't feel like that. Right. Yeah, that. Yeah, that very shallow, that very shallow, like not, he never takes responsibility for, for his actions. Todd: No, he's, he's pulled up. He's a victim in his mind. If you think, I really think that right from the beginning, he's a victim. Like God picked Abel and he just likes Abel better. Abel's his favorite. I think that's how Cain thinks. And God's like, it's not, I mean, he is my favorite, but it's not because of anything you couldn't be my favorite too. Like master this. Like this is the challenge that's laid before you. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. You're right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: You have a rebellious spirit, but God doesn't act like there's no hope. He just says you have to master it. Like you've got to clothe yourself. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: Adam and Eve tried it first, it work out very well. God clothed them as they left the garden, but we're left to assume that from there on, humanity is clothed in itself. God gave them the example and said, do it this way, and they went on and did it that way. And that God's, and He's still trying to work with them. That was really what was the most impressive thing to me in the whole chapter is how right from the beginning, as soon as they're expelled from the Garden of Eden, God is, He's outside the garden with them. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: Like now he's coming to them and they're not even in the garden in the cool of the evening, but he's still coming to them and he's still trying to love them. He's still trying to perfect them, if you want to think of it that way. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: But Kane never shows any. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, he doesn't. Now he doesn't blame anyone else. He just tries to skirt, you know, responsibility, the focus on him. But do you think, like, where do you think this came from in him? Do you feel like ⁓ the serpent, you know, the serpent figure was involved in, like, in his temptation or was his spirit just like crap from the beginning, you know? Todd: It may have been. I don't know. You know what the name Kane means? It means to... Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah, I was looking, I was looking it up. Todd: It means to ⁓ get something. Like Eve says, I've gotten a son, I've gotten a man from the Lord. It means to attain, yeah, to acquire, to attain something. And really, that's, and what able means is breath or vapor. Which, if we were to apply the very little we know about God and creation and everything else in just three chapters, God breathed in the man the breath of life. Yo, It's Carrie: Right, to a player. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And spirit makes me think of spirit. Todd: That's what Abel means. But it was with Cain, but it, yeah. So you have a life by a spirit, and then you have a life by trying to acquire, trying to gain. In other words, he's trying, would, Cain is, the spirit of Cain is the spirit of, I'm going to get back into Eden, but I'm going to scale those walls on my own. That's kind of what's in Cain. And with Abel, you get this idea of, Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah. Todd: of just a dependence on God. Like, okay, this is, you know, at least that's what I'm picking up. I don't know. I'm picking up that spirit of independence and dependence. I think that that's our, Abel was willing. And then Seth later, I think it's interesting that God puts a mark on Cain, and then it says, Cain left the presence of God and he lived in no man's land east of Eden. ⁓ Cain slept with his wife. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: she conceived and had Enoch, he built a city and named it after Enoch, after his son Enoch. You'll notice this part of the curse that God puts him on is that you'll be a homeless wanderer on earth. So even within God's curse, Cain's rebelling against that and he builds the first city and he's like, you're, you think I'm going to be homeless. I'm telling you what, buddy, I'm going have a better home than you ever imagined. It's not just going to be a garden. You know what I mean? He builds the city. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah. Todd: And then right after that, talks about lameck marrying two wives. That's the first instance of polygamy that we see, I guess, in the, in the Bible. ⁓ and lameck does come off as a, as even worse than Kane, just kind of a loud mouth rebellious, you know, whatever. It's just kind of what he lame, lameck does with his two wives. Yeah, later he does. But what it says is, so Kane builds the first city. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ what, later or? Right, but later he does or ⁓ you just feel like, okay, gotcha. Todd: And then it's, ⁓ Lamek has these two wives and they give birth to Jabel, the ancestor of all who lived in tents and herd cattle. His brother's name was Jubal. The ancestor of all who played the liar in the flute. Zilla gave birth to Tubal Cain who worked at the forge making bronze and iron tools. So you see the development of civilization is all through the line of Cain. It's in Cain that we see this desire. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: to build some kind of a permanence, to institutionalize things and maybe get back what they lost on their own effort. So we're gonna develop music, but it's gonna be, it's not music with God, it's music apart from God. We're trying to claw our way back to the spirituality that we lost. Does that make some sense? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure. It makes me curious about these other family members in the line of Cain. It makes me curious because at the end it says, oh sorry, it's a, well it doesn't say who exactly, but that's when men and women began praying and worshiping in the name of God. I'm curious about these people in the line of Cain in this city of Enoch. I wonder are they also worshiping? I'm just kind of curious where that, who that practice began with. Todd: The way that I feel like the text sets up, this seemed to be the prevailing view of commentaries and stuff, that God's offering parallel pictures. So you have the line of Cain, and that's the line of humanity that's rejecting God, that's gonna try to make it on their own. They're gonna build the Tower of Babel and try to build a tower to heaven on their own, right? Now that was post-flood, but I'm just... Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, yep. Todd: as parallel. And then you have this line of So Adam slept with his wife again. She had a son whom she named Seth. She said, God has given me another child in the place of Abel whom Cain killed. And then Seth had a son whom he named Enosh. And that's when men and women began to pray, began praying and worshiping the name of Lord. That seems to me like that's the line of Seth. So over here you have the line of Seth in Yo, It's Carrie: You're right. Right. Todd: in all the other cities and developments and civilizations is kind of this line of Cain or this line of the other children of Adam and Eve, but it's in the line of Seth that men are turning back to God. When it says that men began praying and worshiping in the name of the Lord, it's almost like they've taken, like we're Christians, like they're taking the name of the Lord back on themselves, willingly. Through repentance, I think we would say, through following Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: through the first beginnings of trying to follow God again, even in fallen earth. God's made a way for them to follow him. And this line of Seth has decided that it's through Seth that we're gonna find Noah, who is, I think, a type of Christ, of the Deliverer. Like that's the Ark. You know what I mean? As God's destroying all of creation. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: He's got to deliver it. Moses is going to be that again later on too. And it's all through the line of Seth. If you go to... ⁓ If we look at Hebrews 12 quick or Hebrews 11 maybe, maybe 11. That's the hall of faith that we've talked about before. So in the very beginning of the hall of faith, yeah, very beginning of the hall of faith. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. ⁓ yeah. remember the Hall of Faith. Todd: By faith we see the world called into existence. So this is Hebrews 11.3. And it starts very beginning of the chapter. I'm not gonna read that much of it. The fundamental fact of existence is that this trust in God, this faith, is the firm foundation under everything that makes life worth living. It's our handle on what we can't see. The act of faith is what distinguished our ancestors and set them above the crowd. By faith we see the world called into existence by God's word, what we see created by what we don't see. By an act of faith Abel brought a better sacrifice to God than Cain. It was what he believed, not what he brought that made the difference. That's why I think it had more to do with him, maybe, at that time. There's other times in the Bible where it does matter what they brought. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. His heart, yeah. Well, I was going to say, I mean, well, sometimes that was more like a church law thing, but yeah, it was Abel's spirit of offering that was pleasing to God. Okay. Todd: Yeah, that's what it says. So it was what he believed, not what he brought that made the difference. That's what God noticed and approved as righteous. After all these centuries, that belief continues to catch our notice. And then he's gonna keep on going. He's gonna say, by faith, Enoch, and by faith, Abraham. And you know what I mean? He's gonna walk right down the line by faith. And then he's gonna end with, in Hebrews, he's gonna say, I could go on and on. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: But I've run out of time. There are so many more Gideon, Barak, Sampson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, the prophets. Through acts of faith, they toppled kingdoms, made justice work, took the promises for themselves. They were protected from lions, fires, and sword thrusts, turned disadvantage to advantage, won battles, routed alien armies. Women received their loved ones back from the dead. There were those who under torture refused to give in and go free, preferring something better, resurrection. Others braved abuse and whips and yes, chains and dungeons. had the stories of those who were stoned, sawed in two, murdered in cold blood. Stories of vagrants, wandering the earth in animal skins, homeless, friendless, powerless. The world didn't deserve them. Making their way as best they could on the cruel, edges of the world. So that's what we're going to see the line of Seth does the whole way through. This is the remnant, the faithful remnant. You know what I mean? Yo, It's Carrie: High praise, yeah. Like strong, yeah, really strong in faith. Interesting. Todd: The rest of the world is the line of Cain, I think. But that, you know what I mean? But that line of Seth, that faithful remnant is operating on the edges of the world. It says, now one of these people, even though their lives of faith were exemplary, got their hands on what was promised, talking about Jesus. God had a better plan for us that their faith and our faith would come together to make one completed whole. Yo, It's Carrie: Bummer. Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: Their lives of faith not complete apart from ours. So that cross stands right in the center and whether you're coming to it, you're looking toward the cross and we're looking back at the cross. But our faith, our lives for the line of Seth, they find completeness in each other. You know what I mean? It's in the church, in the body that we. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Well, this is really consistent with this duality that's set up right from the beginning, you know, with the two trees, you know? ⁓ And I just feel like it's just a continuation of that. Unfortunately, after the fall, it kind of becomes like a good and evil sort of thing, you know? Well, and let's not call the whole line of Cain evil, but the path Todd: That's what I thought. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yo, It's Carrie: of faith and the path of let's say weakness or worldliness or material, don't know, spirit versus material. ⁓ Todd: Sure. And just like Cain, everybody, everybody in the line of Cain, God is willing to work with all of them. It isn't that isn't that God is that they're all they're too bad for God. He can't handle them. It's that they won't turn. They won't yield. They're rebels who won't lay down their arms. Yo, It's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Todd: And that I think is in the end what we're seeing. So this is the beginning of it. These are a bunch of beginnings that we're seeing. We're seeing the fall, that streak of rebellion and independence just make its way through everything. And then we're going to see that man begins to institutionalize things. He begins to build cities. He begins to build religions. He begins to build all kinds of things. And some of those things are good. Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right, it's how we are. Todd: But that doesn't just like Cain's fruit from his garden was or from his farm was good. But a lot of it has to do with the, with the attitude in which it's offered. You know what I mean? In other words, can be a music. think of music or the arts or whatever as beautiful and as good, and they are offered to God in the right spirit. Apart from that, maybe not. Does that make sense? Yo, It's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Yep, like anything, anything. Yeah, if the spirit in it is faulty, then anything can be bad. If the spirit in something is good, almost anything can be good. Is there another murder that happens here with, does Llymc? Todd: don't know. Yeah. Yeah, Lamek murders someone, some young kid who came at him. You know, I couldn't tell. It sounded a little like self-defense to me, but then the commentaries didn't paint it that way, so I'm not really sure. Lamek said to his wives, hear me out. I killed a man for wounding me, a young man who attacked me. If Kane's avenged seven times for Lamek, it's 77. It seems like he thinks he was more justified than Kane. Yo, It's Carrie: Yeah. I don't understand. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and what is that about? Okay, gotcha. Okay. Todd: I don't know if he was, but it seems like he thought he was. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yo, It's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Right. Like pretty dramatically. And also the it's interesting his impression of Cain's level of just justification. You know what I mean? He's avenged seven times. It's like so his story must have been passed down. You know, maybe Cain said, listen, I made a mistake, but God protected me anyway. And, know, I don't you know what I mean? I'm just trying to think of a. Yeah. OK. ⁓ Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Next week, I've got a great graph that we're gonna use, that I'm gonna overlay. We're gonna do it next week, but I took, I had Grok take all of the people kind of between Adam and the flood, and it gives all the ages and things, and just put them out like in a bar graph and let us see how they overlapped. It's shocking how much they overlapped. It's shocking how Adam didn't die that long before the flood. And you know what I mean? It's just, you start to look at these things and. Yo, It's Carrie: ⁓ ⁓ cool. Actually, I love that because the ⁓ timeline of these events is very fuzzy to me. Because when I was growing up, we were given these Bible studies as completely encapsulated events, and they're not really laid out in any sort of timeline that relatable. Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, when you've got all these people living 800, 900 years, it's hard to get your head around how many of these people are overlapping. You know what it's hard for me to conceive it. Yo, It's Carrie: You live to Todd: the Yo, It's Carrie: I Todd: Listen guys, go back and listen to, Yo, It's Carrie: Thank you. Todd: news. If you haven't, while they opinion a news hour, drop every week on Tuesday. We drop beers with Jesus on Wednesdays. Go back and listen to, ⁓ the first three in Genesis or four, maybe we have in Genesis. have two in Genesis one and Genesis two and three. I really felt like Genesis two and three. I'm less certain about that first one on Genesis, but the next three, think we're really good. Yo, It's Carrie: Yesterday. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think so. Thanks so much. Todd: So go back and listen to two and three. think you'll enjoy it. Send it to some people. We would love it if you'd rate us. Listen, as we're going through things and you hear things and you think, hmm, I don't know if I really buy that, I'd love you to comment and send us something and say, listen, I don't know about that anti-institutional talk that Todd loves to throw out all the time. Cause he seemed a little bit of the spirit of Kane in me maybe. Yo, It's Carrie: Sure. Right. If you're like, I want to understand this men lording over women some more. Whatever it is. Todd: Throw some stuff out, conditional immortality, whatever it is that we throw out that you think, Hmm, I never thought of it that way. Drop us a line. ⁓ Carrie may talk etch in the comments and I may, we may address it on the show. You never know. So just see Carrie likes to get into it, getting to scraps with people online. they, if they don't go after Catholics, man, especially if you're some old retired Presbyterian minister, we know what you guys are about. Yo, It's Carrie: I love it. Yeah, that's the new thing. Don't do it. Don't do it. I know, in Jacksonville. Todd: All right, Carrie. Well, thank you for joining me. Have an amazing mother's day. rest of the day with your mom and your boys and ⁓ we'll see you next week. Yo, It's Carrie: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Sounds great. Thanks for joining us. Todd: Alright guys, Todd's World.net is where all the books are. Go buy, well there's only five on there, you might as well buy them all. Alright guys, we'll catch you next week. Thanks Gary, see ya. Yo, It's Carrie: Thanks.