Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #182 | Inside JG King’s 40-Year Rise: Steel Frames, Eight-Star Homes and the Leadership Philosophy Every Builder Should Hear
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:00) This amazing episode is brought to you by the legends at the New Home Electrical Specialist. Go and have a chat with Alan and the team. They are the experts in New Home Electrical and they work with some of the biggest and smallest builders all around Queensland. Go and check them out. It's tnhes.com.au or just look them up on Instagram, LinkedIn, or all the socials and have a chat with Alan and the crew. They're gonna make your life a fair bit easier. Aaron Ng (00:46) Good morning and welcome to the good builder podcast. Today I have a very, very special guest. And as a matter of fact, he's a gentleman and someone who runs a business that I have been watching for decades. Back in my days at GJ Gardner, we had the utmost respect for this group. know, the gentleman we're talking today is not just a figurehead and not just a director either. He's a hands-on leader. When you look at the stuff that he's doing out there in the community and for his business, it's pretty special. He spent his career inside this family business, which is a bit of a monster. It's a household name across Victoria. I'm gonna make sure I get the name right because I worked for a builder with a similar name, he brings a rare combination of operational experience, strategic oversight, genuine commitment for building real family homes and making a. real difference in the industry. And we'll talk a little bit later about an announcement that they brought out not too long ago in terms of the sustainability level of the homes that they're starting to build as well. He's a straight talker, deeply experienced operator, and I am so pumped to welcome to the podcast, John King from JG King Homes. How are you? John King (02:02) Yeah, very good, Aaron. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be talking to you today. It's good to get the message out there about what we're doing and I appreciate you taking some time with us. Aaron Ng (02:06) Yeah. Yeah. you know, as I said before, we started the podcast, John made, have the utmost respect for you and your family and what you guys have done. You are good builders. When you talk about what makes a good builder, JG King and your family and what you've created a good builders and you've been doing it for a quarter of a century. So being a good builder for a quarter of a century is no fluke. So if can we sort of talk about How did it all begin, mate? Like, where did it all start? Tell us a little bit about the journey. I actually don't know too much about it, and I can't wait to hear. John King (02:42) Yeah, so I actually started working in, well, my father started the business back in 1985. So it's actually 40 years. No, that's all right. We were having our 40th birthday this year. And I, back then I was only 16. so I worked on weekends and holidays in our steel framing plant. Aaron Ng (02:51) I'm sorry. John King (03:03) I was painting welds, I was getting the rust-proof paint underneath my fingers and helping out really hands-on in the factory. And back then we operated under a brand called New Steel Homes. And it was a business model that basically allowed builders or entrepreneurs to start a business, build their own frames, provide a kit home and... Aaron Ng (03:09) Wow. John King (03:27) provided them the plans and brochures and things like that. And the business grew and I've sort of grown up with the business over the years. I've always had been involved in the business over the 40 years. And we slowly expanded. We decided that doing spec homes, sorry, doing kit homes was a really hard game because the typical consumer Aaron Ng (03:30) Wow. John King (03:49) just took a very long time to build the home. They built it on weekends and it took months and months and months, sometimes years to build the home and you're just feeding them bits and pieces to get the house built. So we changed to a full build builder. we supplied built homes, the built form. And we did that probably during the second year of operation. We slowly grew from Ballarat to Bendigo to Aaron Ng (03:52) Yeah. John King (04:12) Warrnambool to Horsham. And then over the years, just kept growing throughout the regional areas. And then we eventually went into Sunshine and then started building in Melbourne as well. So, you know, right at the moment, we build right across the state from Mildura to Bairnsdale, from Wodonga to Warrnambool and everything in between. we're one of the few builders that truly covers the entirety of Victoria. ⁓ We don't leave any Aaron Ng (04:35) Yep. John King (04:37) There's no part of Victoria we say no to. So that's a big tick in some of our customers' eyes. And it exposes us to a whole range of climatic conditions and challenges with energy ratings and councils and finding trades and all those sorts of things you can imagine. Yeah. But it's been a long journey. Aaron Ng (04:43) Absolutely. Yeah, Mate, I am so sorry about it. It's you that had been doing the 25 years, it's 40 years as a business. That is just phenomenal, There's not too many builders out there that have been around that long and that's successful. What do John King (05:06) Yes. No, no, it's only a that advertise a longer period of time and not many though. Aaron Ng (05:18) They didn't. No, what is it? What is that? How has that whole journey shaped you and what was some of the influences and experiences that you got along the way? John, like who was your role model within the business? it your family, your father or? John King (05:34) Yeah, so my father's always been involved in the business and he's always had lot of foresight and thinking, well, how can I build the skill set to be able to do more? And right through the time that I've been working in the business, I've worked in a whole range of areas. I started in the manufacturing hands-on. I worked in the accounts area, which was gladly not for a long period of time. ⁓ I worked in marketing and worked in sales. I worked in estimating. So I did supervising for quite a period of time. So I've had hands-on involvement in all the aspects of the business. And now I really spend a lot of my time. at a strategy level in the business, working on innovation, working on overseeing our manufacturing businesses and working closely with our CEO to try and shape how we grow our business and where we head the product. Aaron Ng (06:27) Yeah. Well, you just seem so humble for, for, know, such a business and building the amount of homes you do and the reputation you have. think that's, that's one of the things. And I think you seem like the family roots of, of, JG King is still there. That, that same feel whenever I looked at, know, or have known people within your business, they say that about you guys. Is that something that you focus on as a business there, John, the culture and John King (06:53) Yeah, absolutely. It's one thing that I've certainly learned from my father is that the people that work for us, you've got to really treat them like family because they rely on you. They're not just coming to work. They've usually got a family behind them. They're looking to get you for surety, for longevity, for something they can rely on to plan the rest of their lives or to Aaron Ng (06:54) that leadership. John King (07:15) to go further than just the next day. ⁓ And so we're always constantly looking at that, looking at how we can do things in a sustainable manner, in a way that supports the different parts of our business, that helps the staff that we have in all these different communities. We've got 12 offices around Victoria. So we're in all the little areas like, know, Warrnambool and Horsham and Mildura and we're up in Echuca and Wodonga and... Aaron Ng (07:18) Yeah. John King (07:40) Bansdale and everything in between. So we've got people living in communities everywhere. And so we make a point of making sure that we help support some of the local sports, some of the local charities and those sorts of things so that we're part of the community, not just an employer or a builder that comes in and supplies a house and doesn't have much to do with it. And I think our staff and our people really enjoy that. We bring them all together in Ballarat because that's where we started each Christmas. we usually have, we probably get about 75 % of the team at any one time up to the Ballarat. And that's a good time to catch up with everybody and get to celebrate together. Aaron Ng (08:01) Yeah. Yeah, wow. That is so cool, John. Well, mate, you've worked across, so as you said, you've worked across the operations of a building business. You've worked in manufacturing with steel and I did not know that about you, the kit home side of things. I'll tell you what, that tells me about you and your family. You're very forward thinking, first of all, like back in the day doing that, you know, there wouldn't have been many people doing that sort of thing there. And now it's sort of, we're talking about it again, almost, which I kind of, you're probably gonna not. love my comment here, but I kind of put kit homes in the same thing as modular in a way, prefabrication. you kind of like, wow, you guys were already looking at that back in the day and you've worked on projects and in the leadership space, you know, looking back over all your experiences, what do you reckon taught you the most about building like a resilient and forward thinking construction company? John King (09:11) Yeah, I think one of the important things is in working in the different parts of the business. So obviously we've our housing business, then we've also got our manufacturing businesses. We've got our steel frames. And the other big part of our business is our window manufacturing. So working in windows, frames and housing, you learn very quickly that the customer is more than just the person who walks in and signs a piece of paper to build a home. It's also the subcontractor. Aaron Ng (09:20) Yeah. John King (09:36) who gives you feedback on the type of frame you're putting up and some of the mistakes you might be making. It's the windows you're putting in and how they could be better. It's also the supervisors and the manufacturing team. So you learn that the customers are more than just the people that signed the bit of paper. And so we find it really important that we get feedback from all different parts of the business. And together we collaborate. and we work out how we can provide a better frame to the building part of the business. So it goes up quicker and goes up cleaner and goes up stronger. How we can supply windows that are going well first time and fit well first time and answer the needs that the customer is looking for in terms of the size and the placement and those sorts of things. So we find it really important that we collaborate well as a business. Aaron Ng (10:24) And that level of feedback loop that you would have, you know, getting all that information and data and always looking to continually improve. Yeah, it would be pretty phenomenal. That's, that's just amazing, John. It's, it's an amazing chat for me to see how you've, you've done this and how it sort of operates as a, as a business. And one thing I loved what you talked about, and I used to have battles, John. And I reckon it's why I left my corporate life. I'm not talking about a residential building. I'm talking about a commercial building and it was Mirvac And I worked for Mervac commercial building for a long time, worked with, you know, building shopping centers and marketing them to the community and things like that. And one interesting thing that you said, and I know I'm talking about a different industry now, is that you said... And I freaking love it. No one said it on the podcast yet is that you're not just selling to one customer. There's a, there's some, different, there's subsets of customers and how they use things. And you've got to think about different things. I still always have this argument in the commercial space in that our customers were our retailers and not just the people that walk through the door. And so I love your level of thinking and John King (11:27) Mm. Aaron Ng (11:31) of how you are, like you're not just thinking about, you know, one application, there's multiple applications to a typical product and how do you actually make that better for everybody? It's probably about the same way and why you're so successful as, you know, JG King home builder and how you do for clients. So, and as I said, you know, you guys are one of the most recognized, know, family owned builders of that magnitude is amazing. I've worked for a family owned builder. John King (11:46) Yes. Aaron Ng (11:56) How was the family? think we talked about it, but how has the family mindset shaped the culture and the decision making and long-term thinking? it, like you said, is it always something you, you do think of your, you know, people that work with your team as, as more than just. A recruitment. It's like you see them developing them into the future. that where you, sort of look at their. John King (12:11) Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. We've got a culture that we see that everybody that works the business, that we've invested time in them and we're hoping that they can move on into new roles and progress through the business. Only just recently we had a couple of our team members who have been with us for one for 38 and one for 39 years. They retired. And back then we only had probably, maybe five or seven. between five and seven people working for us in those early days. And they progressed to quite senior levels in the business. One was running one of the manufacturing businesses and one was running one of the construction regions. But we see that the first place we look when we have a position open in the business is we look internally and think, who can take that next step? Who can grow and take on some more responsibility? Aaron Ng (12:46) What? John King (12:57) who can we invest some more time in? And that's more important than going out to the market and saying, well, who's available in the market? Who can we poach from another builder or who can we poach from another business? You know, we rather look and see who we can grow and invest in internally. Aaron Ng (13:10) I love it. think I love sport. I know this is an interesting one, John, but I love sport and I love basketball, particularly even though I'm five foot four. And I see the NBL and I look at the imports, for example, you look at the NBL and you look at the imports and you always see teams aren't very consistent. You see an import come in. If he's on, they win. If he's off, they lose because they haven't invested the time in the rest of their team. John King (13:13) Hmm? you Aaron Ng (13:35) And I wanted to make that an analogy because you're one of the first leaders of this that has actually said that on this podcast. And I am looking for it. I would want to work for someone like you. You know, I was waiting for a leader to say something like that because I didn't want to say it. I don't like giving my own opinion. want, know, we obviously have guests on to talk about how they do things and these ways you do things, but You know, as that sporting analogy says, I was just waiting for someone to say that. And when you said that, was like, this is our man. Like, this is a good builder. This is how you build a good team. You know, and this is how you build a good culture. So, yeah. John King (14:08) Yeah, one of my favourite sporting movies is Moneyball. Aaron Ng (14:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. John King (14:14) love that. And it's not about buying in the best players and buying in the best. It's about looking at how you strategically move the players you've got to get the best result. Aaron Ng (14:21) Yep. ⁓ there's a bit of wisdom there, John. But I love that. I freaking love that. I think I'm going to use that as a saying you know, strategically use your place. No, it is. It's brilliant, man. So the other thing we'll talk about today is you've got steel framing is a big part of your identity and a clear point of difference in the Victorian market. What was the thinking behind the early move? You guys were one of the first to move to steel frames. I reckon like like really commit to steel frames in Australia. John King (14:49) Yeah, we've only ever built out of steel. When we first started, the new steel franchise system was basically building a cyclone proof house. So it came out of Queensland and I'm guessing it came out of far North Queensland where everything's got to be cyclone proof. It was a really heavy welded frame and we manufactured that for a period of time, then we realized it had to be lighter and we didn't need to have the cyclone proof. Aaron Ng (14:51) I'm confident. what? Yeah. Yep. John King (15:14) We don't really get cyclones in Victoria. So we did some work with BlueScope and we improved the system to a light gauge product that's a lot lighter and it's just as strong. so over the years, the product has become lighter, it's become straighter, it's become stronger. And it's really starting the house with some really strong bones. It's very accurate. Aaron Ng (15:17) Yeah. Yeah. John King (15:39) We push the job out from our drafting team. It's imported into our manufacturing software and our steel frame plant. And it's checked by people and then it's pushed out to the factory floor and then it's rolled. And it's within millimetres of where it should be. ⁓ We have a tolerance of possibly minus three mill over about six metres. Aaron Ng (15:49) Yep. Yeah. Wow. John King (16:04) So you can imagine it's going together very well. if anything, if ever there's a problem, it's usually you put the frame onto the slab and you go, hang on a minute, the slabs out a bit. It's a great product and it's light. Like a timber frame wastes three times as much for the same section. So the trades people on site, they love it. can move it, maneuver it around site. They can erect it. They can put the trusses up. Aaron Ng (16:15) Yeah. boy, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John King (16:30) They can do it easily with two people. They don't need cranes on site to lift things because they're too heavy. And then once it's locked together, it's little bit like a Meccano set. It's very rigid, very strong, and it's very lightweight. Aaron Ng (16:35) Anyway. Yeah, wow. So we can cut this bit out if I am totally wrong here, John, but it sounds like you were a bit of a pioneer behind or provided a lot of support or maybe feedback to BlueScope around their Truecore product. John King (16:54) Correct. were the, yeah, so our, one of our staff members who still works with us, he was the number two license holder for the Truecore software. So he, there was one of the BlueScope staff members and then there was one of our staff members and together they collaborated a lot in developing, know, where the Truecore system headed. In a lot of cases, our frame, our trust system is basically Aaron Ng (16:56) Is that correct, John? Wow! John King (17:19) Truecore picked up our trust system. We bought some of the very first role formers and it started off being called SuperCAD and then it developed into EnduroCAD. So we've gone through that whole journey and we're probably one of the largest users of that system and we have the most people who are trained in, have gone through that sort of academy. Aaron Ng (17:28) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. John King (17:43) in using it. And we have a really good feedback loop, you know, with them. We talk directly with the people who develop the software and we look at ways that we can make it better and more accurate and and cope with the sort of things we do regularly. Aaron Ng (17:54) Well, I'm a huge fan of Truecall. That's why I asked it because I do all the marketing for them up here in Queensland. So I know Steele very well. I know a lot of the roleformers up here, worked with a lot of roleformers up here, so I've been exposed to Steele. And that was something really interesting about you guys because I think it is a great solution for building homes, probably the better solution and more speed of construction accuracy, as you said, the Boeing. John King (17:59) there you go. Aaron Ng (18:19) all that sort of stuff up here in Queensland, fire ants and all the things that we have, sorry, ants, all the stuff, oras, you know, all the stuff that we have. Yeah, all this stuff, bushfires, you know, all the stuff that we have up here. So, you know, and to do that, again, you know, we talked kit homes, we've talked at steel frames, we've talked the way, well, we haven't talked yet about JG King and how you sort of, there's a few bit of news we're to talk about, very forward thinking there. John, and what I do find phenomenal is, know, there's a lot of, and this is why I love doing the good builder and having people like you on is there's a lot of like focus on other industries in terms of like innovation. I mean, there is a bit in our industry, but the people specifically in our industry, think because it isn't a whole lot of support, seems like a lot of them like yourselves, families kind of took it on themselves to create these amazing businesses and revolutionise the way we build off the back of necessity. John King (19:10) Hmm. Aaron Ng (19:14) In a way, if that's the right way to say it, because you're like, I want to do things better. want to do things better. So instead of going to get a government grant or government support, guys like you and your family and your dad and your mum and your siblings and all the family and your team, just go out there and get the job done and then produce it to the industry and go, okay, here you go. You're going to build with steel frames is how you do it. Oh my God. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's, it's a fascinating industry for me. And that's why I said to you at the beginning and I know we just met you might've. John King (19:15) Yes. Thank you. Aaron Ng (19:41) thought I was a bit of a weirdo, but I love sport, but I actually, my role models are the people in business that I talk to because they're tangible, they're doing things and they're in that same realm. And mate, I think you fit that mold. I think it's cool what you've done. And I'm blown away. Like I'm learning as I go, didn't know three quarters of this stuff, even though I should research you before I talk to you. But I knew what you'd done, but I didn't know it was this much. John King (20:07) Yeah. ⁓ Aaron Ng (20:10) Anyway, onto your next innovation, John, we could probably sit here for a couple of days talking about that. But apparently, you're looking to build an eight star rated energy home at no extra cost as well for people out there in Victoria. ⁓ What was the decision around that, mate? John King (20:24) Yeah, correct. Well, it winds back a little bit when NCC 2022 was being tabled. discussion, I got involved at that stage and we started to go, you know what, seven stars not easy to get to with the current technology in Windows. One of our businesses is making Windows. We were making aluminium windows. We were making a lot of single glazed aluminium windows. As Sixstar came through, we started to make quite a few double glazed aluminium windows and the system was really maxed out. The aluminium systems are only really designed to do the bare minimum in double glazing, like you can fit an 18 mil pane into the system, but you can't really get much bigger than that. And 18 mil, as you probably know, you're not really cutting it in terms of the thermal efficiency. And they can't be, you can't ever call some of these aluminium systems high performance. We realised we needed to go high performance with our windows. And so we had a really good look at what was available. And we realised that... Aaron Ng (21:03) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John King (21:22) The only way forward was to change the technology and the systems that we were making in our windows. And we'd been making these windows for the best part of 30 years. So it was a huge change. And we decided that we're going to go in hard, we're going to make a change in direction, and we're going to make UPVC windows. So I did some research. We found a couple of manufacturers in Europe. There's no manufacturers of the products, the machinery that make UPVC windows in Australia. We selected a company out of Italy and it's a system that makes seamless joins in the PVC, gives you really nice result. But it also gives us the ability to really make truly high-performance windows. And the windows exceeded our expectations. We were making windows that were achieving some of the best U-values you could get in terms of volume windows on the market. And we were putting in a 24 mil double glazed pane of glass with low E on it and going, hang on a minute, we're getting over seven star, well over seven star. So we started to wind back the insulation because it was, we suddenly realized how important having a good window in a house was. It just shifted the pendulum on where you were hitting Aaron Ng (22:15) Wow. Yeah. John King (22:39) your star rating. And so we got one of that and then we thought, hang on a minute, why don't we just offer an eight star home? It just wasn't a big effort. so we started to go, what do we need to do? And we started to put the low E double glazed units in and in some cases, we didn't need to do anything with insulation on the smaller homes. In some cases on the really big homes, we had to Aaron Ng (22:39) Let's do it. Yeah. Bloody hell. John King (23:01) We had to go back to getting R2.7 in the walls and R6 in the ceilings. And maybe we're putting a little bit of insulation around some of the utility areas. We didn't have to do a lot. So it just made sense to re-engineer our product range to the 8-star. we find that in areas like Mildura, which is a really kind climatic condition, Aaron Ng (23:10) Yeah. John King (23:22) we get closer to nine, nine and a half stars. It's just crazy. So you're, and you probably know with the star rating, they say that if you get to 10 star, you're essentially passive. And so we're handing over our product to customers in Mildura because of the climatic conditions that are really close to getting to that 10 star. But as you know, the scale for, as you go from six to seven to eight to nine to 10, Aaron Ng (23:28) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. John King (23:49) it gets really steep getting to 10. So it's, we're still trying to work out how to get that extra half-star for some of those areas. But I can see a day when nine-star might be an offer as well. But at the moment, without trying to stress out the drafting and the estimating and the marketing team, we'll sit on eight-star for a little while. Cause I think it's a really fantastic offer. Aaron Ng (23:51) Yeah, yeah, yeah. You It's phenomenal. John King (24:14) you know, it's not only eight star, it's also a whole of home score that's getting close to 100. So the whole of home is really the measure that says, all right, it's one thing to get your heating right, but what are you doing with your lights? What are you doing with your appliances? What are you doing with the rest of the energy that's getting used in the house? And that's where we've done a lot of work. And the houses we're handing over are... Aaron Ng (24:19) Yeah. John King (24:36) are getting really close to that square of a hundred for whole of homes. So you're getting a really comfortable home because we're putting in high performance windows. You're getting more windows in the house than we used to put near larger windows. And we try to make a point of that to kind of, know, between you and me to rub other builders noses in it. ⁓ One of the important things, think if you go to an architect, Aaron Ng (24:47) Yeah. I it. John King (25:01) He would never suggest to you, I think we need to make that window smaller, or I think we need to take that window out of that room. He would say, how do we get, how do we maximise the view? How do we maximise the light? How do we maximise the living conditions in this house? And that's what we're achieving with high performance windows. We're getting really nice big windows into all the living areas and all the bedrooms and all the, all the utility areas. And you walk into the house and the first thing that a consultant's trained to is watch this. And they turn the lights off in the house and the house is still bright and airy. Aaron Ng (25:04) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. John King (25:28) and then they turn the lights back on and it improves it. But the houses are really comfortable and bright and light and they're fantastic to live in. Aaron Ng (25:36) I I don't think there's another builder in that sort of space and the volume that you do that things like you. And I've spoken to them all. And I'm pretty confident in that, John. Like, you guys are phenomenal. The way you're thinking about these things, building these homes, and it was quite a funny story to be honest with you. like, why don't we just make it eight star? We just did this. Our window manufacturer just did this. Why don't we just make it eight? Who can do that, John King (25:55) you No, it's very hard with the existing window technology, very hard. The danger is that if you don't improve what you're doing, you start to go in the wrong direction. And that's what's happened, I think, with some of the choices that some of the builders are making is, well, the industry is probably to blame in some ways, but in a lot of cases, you've got to make your window smaller. You've got to reduce the glazing area to your floor area to get to your seven star, or you've got to put a window in. Aaron Ng (26:02) Yeah! That's- Yeah, yeah. Holy moly. Well, you say you've got the windows and you've got now your steel frame solutions as well. In terms of that vertical integration piece, how important has that been to you as a builder? you, and are you comfortable with talking about this if you're okay, John, because we have other volume builders listen to us. I respect what you've done. I don't want you to tell them anything because you don't deserve it. You've done it yourself. John King (26:37) Hmm. Yeah, well, I think we're lucky because we've grown up being vertically integrated. We've always had it and it gives us a level of integration and cooperation between the products that go into our homes and the businesses that support us. And in reverse, we support them really well because they know when they're getting the next order. They know what the next order is. They know, like they can forecast really well what products they need. Aaron Ng (26:58) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. John King (27:17) When we went through COVID, it was a really great example. A lot of builders, they just couldn't get things like frames and windows. And it was the story of the industry. was like supply chains broke, supply broke, and builders came to a grinding halt. Whereas we never skipped a beat. Right through that whole period, we never were looking for a frame or a window. So we were getting the lock up really easily. Aaron Ng (27:28) upset. John King (27:42) And that's when that really shone. And I hope that never happens again, but it was a really good example of how the vertical integration really supported the business. But the parts that you don't really see as easily is that, you know, we can do things like get our CAD packages, talking to our Enduro CAD packages and talking to our window packages so that we can get really accurate results all the way through. we're not, the wastage is minimal. Aaron Ng (28:07) Yeah John King (28:07) ⁓ and the quality of what's going out is accurate. And these sorts of things are really hard to quantify for businesses that don't have that vertical integration. Aaron Ng (28:11) Yeah. No, it's yeah. Amazing. Amazing. And I think the other thing is like beyond your, your business performance and stuff like that, John, the other thing that I really respect you for, like, you know, probably respect you more now knowing everything that I know and how you're doing stuff. It's amazing. But you know, you've worked across the regional areas. You've worked in a lot of community projects. I think I posted a picture on LinkedIn today. You're giving John King (28:18) Mm-hmm. Aaron Ng (28:39) giving across a cool 25,000 to a community group. You've done a lot of that stuff and you've been involved in the community from day dot you and your family. What has that sort of taught you around the regions and what they need from their homes and communities? ⁓ John King (28:48) Peace. Yeah, the thing we've sort of found, there's not a lot of businesses that can continuously support a lot of the smaller communities. And there's a real danger, I think, in society at the moment where the population is drawn to the big city. Like Melbourne's growing out of control. It's, I don't know, I last count was something like seven million. would be bigger than Sydney. And sometimes the focus can go. Aaron Ng (29:02) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John King (29:19) In a number of ways, the political votes end up in the city. so a lot of the spending disappears from some of those regions. So it comes down to it's like our own to help support. And we can't do it all, but we try to support as much as we can. A lot of small groups and lot of small community groups and sporting groups and things like that. We try to help them through some tough times. We, you one of the big ones that we do, we support is the Fiona Alsey Cancer Research Centre. Aaron Ng (29:27) Yeah. John King (29:44) And we basically employ one of the scientists there because if you're working in any of those research areas, just, they don't pay scientists enough. you you hear only just recently this week, you know, the CSIRO having to lay off a whole heap of people, it's a crazy situation because, you know, that research and that innovation is what drives this country. And so that's disappointing that's occurred. Aaron Ng (29:54) Nah. Mm. John King (30:07) That's the sort of thing we look for is how can we support those areas. Aaron Ng (30:11) man, you like that's, you know, employing a scientist to continue research for cancer. That's a mate. I've never actually heard of that from any business sort of thing. You know, like that level of philanthropy or however you say it. mean, that's just phenomenal. Hey, you're doing it there, John. That's yeah. Well, maybe I. John King (30:31) Thank you. Aaron Ng (30:32) I think we need to do another. I want to keep catching up with you you don't mind, just seeing what's going on at JG King and things you're doing because you're a fascinating fella. looking ahead, what do you believe will define the next year of home building in Victoria and beyond? And what's next for JG King as well, John? John King (30:49) Yeah, there's a couple of areas that we, I guess the real big one that we keep our eye on is innovation. And innovation in our mind is, well, what problems can we solve? What things can we do better? What ways can we build or manufacture a better product? And we're constantly looking at how we can evolve and innovate. And obviously one of the big ones, the big talking point is how can we use technology to make things better? And I think there's a fear in the world that AI is going to take over and get rid of jobs. But we sort of see AI as an enabler and a way to do things better and a way to learn things better, a way to check for errors and to improve what people do and to go beyond what their skill set might have been prior to it. And so we spend time in working with our team members to understand what's available with AI. And they use it for things like helping to understand, you you probably understand this, you get a piece of legislation from the government and it's talking about how insurance might be changing or how the building code might be changing and it's wording. And you dive into AI and you say, create a podcast for me or Aaron Ng (31:50) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, John King (32:02) or create a summary that I can understand or Aaron Ng (32:02) yep, I do it all the time. Yeah. John King (32:06) make it simpler for me ⁓ or write a occupational health and safety infograph or like a range of things we've got people doing that they're just making, they probably couldn't do in the past or they had to outsource it to a marketing company or they had to outsource it to somebody else or ring a lawyer. Aaron Ng (32:07) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John King (32:25) These sort of things are becoming a lot easier for people to do in-house. So it's one of the big things that as a business we need to look at, and we get criticized all the time by the government is that the building industry has not improved as productivity in 50 years. So that's our next challenge. How do we improve productivity? How do we continue to do more with the same amount of people? And that's a Hollywood training. It's getting better technology. It's getting better tools. Aaron Ng (32:29) Yeah. Yeah. John King (32:51) It's integrating what we do and continuing to make things work better. Aaron Ng (32:55) I reckon that that if when you do have time, I know you're a very busy man, obviously with what you do, but I think that would be the next podcast I'd like to tackle with you. John, reckon you would have some, like you are just so knowledgeable about this industry and what can be done because you do it from a range of different perspectives that I think that would be a very interesting podcast. And I think like someone of your caliber. The voice needs to be heard. You know, I really do. I really do think that's, you know, we should do this if you don't mind. And I would, you know, people need to listen to people like you, cause you're doing it on the ground. You've been doing it for 40 years. You do it the best and you are innovating off your own back. As I say, it's, it's, it's cool. there's only one more question that I have, for you, John. And I think I could probably answer it for you if you want, but you know, we're called the good builder. John King (33:43) Yep. Yes. Aaron Ng (33:45) What do you think makes a good builder? And my answer, what I was going to say is GJ King, John King and the crew. Honestly, mate, like look at the vertical integration. What builder could give an experience like that over COVID? There's a multitude of examples that I don't need to rehash because everyone will listen to this, but what do you think makes a good builder, John King (34:04) I think it's a builder that listens to all the customers, the players in the industry that we're in, understands exactly what the customer wants to see built. You've to build a smart home. You've got to build a home that is really nice to live in, that's going to be future-proof, that's going to be robust. You can't build a house that's only built for the short term with poor materials and... core practices. It's got to be a house that's going to last. And that's why we offer a 50 year warranty. We build with a steel frame. We build with the best windows you can put into a house in industry. We make sure the house is going to last and people are going to be proud of it. And it's going to be as good in 10 years, in 20 years, in 30 years as it was the day they moved into it. Aaron Ng (34:47) Wow. And from, again, love it all. And from a builder that does, you know, it's been around for a long while, does the volume that you're doing and he's building homes in that way. That's phenomenal. And there was only one other builder that said something similar to me. He said something like, you know, what the Romans built homes that lasted hundreds of years. Why can't we? you know, and that was his thing. He was an older guy up in Gympie up here, John on the sunshine, you know, old school Gympie up here, know, farmland and stuff, but he's so old school, but he's like, why can't we build home? And I loved it because it shows the innovation. shows the pride in your projects, all that sort of stuff. and, mate, you make me want to build a JG King home. Like, I'm not kidding. Hey, like just, just talking to you. I've got the, I can feel the trust. always knew you're a very trusted brand. John King (35:21) Yeah. Next. ⁓ Aaron Ng (35:33) as I said, held you guys on a pedestal and it's, I've loved every minute of this podcast and I cannot, I'm so grateful that I had, you know, in my life had the chance to talk to someone like you and what you've done. I think you're leaving a legacy there, you and your family, mate. So, and you're showing the industry how, thank you so much for your time. Yeah, mate. mate. Yeah. John King (35:51) Thanks, Aaron. Now really appreciate you spending time with me. Aaron Ng (35:55) I wouldn't want to spend it anywhere else. If I didn't have to go to another podcast, I'd keep doing this one. I love the next guest, but your one is pretty interesting, you know, and, we are about builders. We talked to a lot of other people in the industry, lawyers, as you might've seen, and business coaches and all these things. And I love them. Don't get me wrong. But when you have a leader, and this is for the community out there, but when you have a leader like John in the industry that actually has done it. works in the industry, creates innovation, and he's talking about all the things in real practical terms and he's implementing them in his business that some of these business coaches talk about. That's why we do this, because the proof is in the pudding of a real business. once again, John, thank you so much, mate. I'd love to have you back on and all the best for JG King Homes And if you ever start building up in Queensland, I'll be your first customer. John King (36:42) Thanks, Aaron.