Latest / Church Staff Book Club / Sabbath Isn't Just a Day Off
Transcript
- Jonathan Malm: I don't trust that it'll happen unless I do it. Hey, welcome back to the Church Staff Book Club. My name is Jonathan Wohl. And I'm Jason Young. And we are now on chapter five of our book, The Emotionally Healthy Leader. Not our book, the book that we're reading together. I wish we wrote it. It's a great book. It's really good. I'm glad this is your second book. If this is your first time tuning into the podcast, our goal is that we could pick a book that everyone in leadership, everyone in ministry specifically, should read. And hopefully by doing this podcast, by reading it all together, we can learn more than we would if we were reading by ourselves. So whether you're following along with this podcast by yourself, or whether it's your staff team that's reading it together and watching this podcast, our hope is that all of us can just maybe contextualize it a little bit better, maybe, maybe apply it a little bit better than we might otherwise if we were just doing it by ourselves. So this chapter today is Sabbath delight, we're talking about how to become an emotionally healthy leader, how to Institute things in your life that will help you become more healthy so that you're not dealing with the moral failure. You know, while everything's going wonderful, you have a moral failure six months down the road or, you know, that you just are snapping at your staff or that you're just creating an unhealthy environment at your church or in your ministry. So how can we do that? How can we become healthy ourselves to be able to create healthy ministries? So this one, chapter five Sabbath delight, what would you say? Probably you got the most from Jason. Jason read this book a long time ago. This is my first time reading through it. So I'm really enjoying it. Yeah. When you read the title, the chapter practice Sabbath delight, there's a part of you that gets it. There's a part of you that doesn't like it because it's hard. And then there's a part of you that's like, what does that even mean? And I think about it this way. That Sabbath, and we'll unpack what it means and how to do it. So super practical, but Sabbath could be seen as God's weekly. rescue plan. So it's a plan that can help protect us from our addiction to productivity. So, you know, that's how I think about this chapter, but how do we delight in it when we feel overwhelmed by the things around us? As highly productive people, I think that's it. Like we're like, we are forced to stop. But it's interesting because he paints this picture of like Sabbath is almost like a holiday, especially in Jewish cultures. Which is like the culture that takes us the most seriously. Right. The idea that Sabbath is this like, well, he talks about kids running around, you know, like being so excited because Sabbath is almost here. It's almost like Christmas is almost here. School's almost out. Like that type of energy of like, this is just an enjoyment time. And I, it's weird because I feel guilty, you know, I, whenever I, every now and my wife will go on vacation, we'll go to like, Hing Koon and I'm sitting by the pool. And for the first day, I have a hard time, like, it. So that's just like, that's just connecting, but then this is the idea of enjoying it in reflection of God, which is a very different thing. I, I, I'm not good at that, honestly. Yeah. Well, that makes two of us. So this, this could be an interesting conversation, but I actually like the vulnerability that two of us are saying we see. We see God inviting us into this and making it Sabbath for man to enjoy, which is really enjoying that loving communion, that loving union we talked about, you know, with God. But man, it really is hard. How do you build this into, you know, a weekly rhythm? We build other things in a weekly rhythms like eating, meetings. Think about a weekly meeting that you have, like you have no problem doing that. I don't have a problem doing that or ideating or building, you know, things of that nature. Let me ask you this. Why, huge question, but maybe it's simple. Why do you think God built Sabbath into the rhythm at creation? I I mean, it kind of, it kind of, ⁓ almost as a precursor of the tower of Babel where, you know, the, we, the people of the world came together, they built this tower and they realized like, God is like, they don't need me. Like, that's, very, can be like a very like, ⁓ self centered thing, like almost narcissistic where it's like, you know, ⁓ they, want them to need me. Right. Like you almost have that like Munchausen by proxy syndrome where it's like, you, kind of make your child sick so that they they can need you. Right. Like it can feel like that, but the idea that we were designed to function. Connected, rooted in God. And whenever we don't have that time to stop because God. God made human beings incredibly powerful. you know, there are people that are creating incredible things that are not connected to God, that is insane, right? Like the things we're able to do in space, AI, all of this stuff. it's not like, it's not like humans can't accomplish things without God, but it's that we shouldn't be accomplishing things without God, right? And so, Sabbath is kind of the way that like God can be like, hey, this is my gift to you. to help you remain rooted in how you were designed to function, rooted in me. So yeah, it's a really good thing, but it forces us to separate from our capacity. It forces us to slow down from what we can do. It forces us to invite God into something that we might be able to handle on our own largely because we were designed best for that. That's how I see it. Yeah. I love the key, a keyword that you just said there, Jonathan designed like He designed this at creation knowing that his creation needed it. And I think, at least for me, I can only speak for myself, that we're addicted to motion and what I am thinking that the Sabbath really is saying that is, it's this proclamation, this declaration that... Sabbath is God runs the world. I don't. You know, when I choose to rest and enjoy this Sabbath, which could feel, because we're just, you know, let's do, let's do, let's do, let's and if we're not doing it at work, we're doing it home. I mean, I'm guilty of this. So if you're listening and you're like, well, you don't understand my situation. Here are two guys that are saying we do the exact same thing and are have three kids under five years old. like we're there. Crazy, right? So maybe the... The choice to rest, to delight in Him on the Sabbath is an act of trust because if I'm not choosing to do it, so if my work doesn't stop, potentially my identity is probably tied to the work, not tied to Him. and I don't know, and that's a little bit, so if you feel that you are not alone, I have struggled with that for years. Well, and here's the... ⁓ Here's the thing that makes this more difficult. So, I mean, like, I'm really good at taking a day off and on my day off, I'm super dad. I'm super husband, you know, and I, I pride myself on the fact that I am a high capacity business leader and I'm also a high capacity parent and father. Again, my identity being wrapped up in what I do, but, ⁓ Peter paints this picture of a Sabbath that makes it hard. It's not a day off. It is, he, he defines it as a 24 hour period. like. Saturday or would it be like Friday at 5pm? think is what the Jewish like approach to it, right? Until Sunday at 5pm. ⁓ Stop work, enjoy rest, practice delight, and then contemplate God. So enjoying rest. he's, you know, it's interesting. I've been, maybe because we've been doing this podcast, I've been getting a lot of like Instagram reels about Sabbath. And there's a person talking about like, how can we have coffee on Sabbath? Cause we're not supposed to cook on the Sabbath, right? Like you can't, you're not even supposed to cook. So he's like, you know, what I do is I make hot water in an urn and I pour it in this cup. And then I have my instant coffee in this cup and I pour it together, but it's not cooking because I'm just mixing things from one thing to another. Right. Like, cause he's like, the rule is we cannot even cook. can't do housework. We can't do all of these things that like, that's what I do on my day off. Right. I clean, I cook, I organize my life. then during the week, I don't have to do that. Right. It's more work on the weekend. I don't Sabbath. I take time off of my like paid work to now do unpaid work. And so he paints the picture of the idea that it's a break from work, both paid and unpaid, which is it sets the bar even higher than I even thought. Yeah. For me, me, Sabbath, like, ⁓ yeah, I can take, I can take Saturdays off or I can take a Monday off, right? Like working at a church, but this is not the day off is not what he's talking about. He's talking about a break from any work, which is wild. Yeah. And I know somebody sitting there thinking if they could fire off an email or something to us real fast, they would say, but you don't, you don't understand. Look, you don't understand. do. Because you know, you're in a certain season. I'm in a certain season and the tension exists. just looks different, right? In these different seasons. And so what we're saying is we get it. If you feel this tension and you could come up with a list of reasons, you know, why it's hard. Like we get it, right? You said something about the day off. I don't know where I read this, but it's something to this effect that a day off might help your body to recover, but the Sabbath is actually what restores your soul. And I think what Cazero is talking about in this chapter is what you already highlighted. A day off, well, I took my day off, but yet your day off was packed with, you know, whatever versus this Sabbath that really was intended for you and for me and you listening right now to restore you, right? To have this delight with him. And we get it, it's hard. And so, you know, I don't know for you, but I like to think about it this way that what if the Sabbath, one reason the Sabbath was created on top of what we've talked about, what if the Sabbath was trying to teach us when we delighted him that we are loved by him apart from what we produce. So I'm not producing on this day and he still deeply, deeply loves me. Like, what if like that is a big thing he's trying to say to us? I think there's a lot of things God's trying to say, but I think for people like us, that is probably one of the most important messages because we are so defined by our work. We're so defined by our output. We are both like before this podcast, Jason was talking about how much traveling doing. I've been talking about all these projects I'm launching, right? We are very, we are very, we love work. We love producing things like, so because of that, we're like, man, our value, we are valuable people. And to understand that like I am loved in spite of that. If, if my, you know, if I have a brain injury tomorrow and I can no longer do this thing that I'm doing anymore, I'm still valuable. I'm still loved. And that's. That's an important message for all of us to regularly be reminded of. But I think also you made a point that it's a break from your brain. But I think that's, we made this distinction in don't burn out, burn bright. But the idea that, you when the Bible was written, it was very agrarian society. was very work with your hands society. A lot of us in ministry now, we don't work with our hands. our body, like we actually probably should be working out on our Sabbath because like our bodies are not getting activity during the week, right? But it's our brains that so need the Sabbath because all of our work is mental. It's emotional. It's, it's, it's constantly thinking, thinking, thinking. And that paints a picture of something that needs to be happening on Sabbath is that we need an opportunity to shut down the rat race of our brain, which probably means social media, books, know, books for education, any type of new emotional and intellectual stimuli that would keep us from resting our brains. think, so I mean, okay, realistically, am I going to be able to not cook on Sabbath? Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to ever do that, right? With, with three kids. Yeah. I can try, right? But the idea that maybe instead of, okay, you know, not cooking, but instead maybe I can say, I'm going to turn off those things that would seek to wear out my brain that would add new information that would be working on my brain. And instead just delight in. time off, delight and the ability to rest. okay, on that note, let me ask you this. What lies do leaders believe about rest? I think, you know, it's one of those, there's a subconscious lie or then there's the stated lie. I think if you're a Christian, you've read the Old Testament, you've read the prophets being pretty harsh with Israel for not keeping the Sabbath holy, right? Like we believe in our minds that rest is important. We also believe that the work of God is too important to be able to take time off. You know, we believe that Jesus stepped away from ministry to rest or to pray. Even then we see prayer as ministry, right? We believe that, but we also believe that the person who's texting us at 2 a.m. with their emergency needs our focus. And if we don't do it, nobody's going to do it. And we've failed God or we failed the ministry or we failed whatever, whatever stakeholders we feel like we failed. I think that's a lot of it. think there's this disconnect with what we believe in, how we operate. It's a, I mean, it's honestly, you know, again, we've talked about this and don't burn out, burn bright. It's a lack of integrity. Integrity being how we, we say we believe in how we actually operate. It's a lack of integrity for us. And I, I'm guilty of that. This is not a harsh thing. think Jason, you'd be say, you'd say you're guilty of that. Is that what we say we believe and what we believe and actually how we operate are different things. Yeah. Yeah. If you're listening or watching right now, a question that might pop in your mind or now it will, cause I'm highlighting it. Question that's about to pop in your mind. Yeah, that's right. Whether you like it or not, you can thank me later, but there's probably an emotion. That when you begin to do this, especially if this isn't a normal rhythm that you integrate into, you your week, there's probably an emotion that is going to surface when you begin to do this. And it may last for a little bit. that emotion is guilt. I think that guilt can often be this first thing that surfaces. internal or imposed on you by other people. Yeah, it absolutely could be one. It's not your normal rhythm. Two, it's I feel guilty because I should be doing for that person, the church, the ministry, the volunteers, the, you know, others outside of my family, whatever that might look like. So if you think about that or you feel that welcome to being a normal human being, I'm there with you. And I think a lot of times while we resist the Sabbath and we choose productivity is because productivity feels validating to us. Whereas resting feels, you know, we don't see the value in the stillness. We don't see the value in the restoring that God made it for us part of, like you said at the beginning, the design, the creation. And the truth of it is, and we highlight this and, you know, don't burn out, burn bright, is if we do not choose rest, the result will be exhaustion will choose us. And so, It's really this choice on the front end versus being chosen on the back end by something that we're trying to avoid, but will eventually catch up to us. So if you feel any of that, like we resonate with that, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't step into it and feel the tension of, right, well, how do I do this? How do I begin? The reality is you just begin, begin small. And you can begin, yeah, begin small. Okay, so let's pause on that. somebody listening, somebody watching, they do a lot of things. They realize, ⁓ okay, these two guys get me. They are navigating to, they're learning to something small. What could be something small that, you know, a church staff leader could do in the context of this conversation? I mean, a simple thing would be turn off your phone for two hours, meaning turn off, like leave it at home. Go to a park. with your kids or with your wife or just by yourself or with some friends. You know, we talked about in previous episodes leading out of your singleness, right? Like whatever it is, literally separate from your phone. Cause phone I feel like is such a central figure of where this lack of rest happens for us nowadays. Right? Like there's always Facebook, there's always Instagram, there's always something grabbing our attention. Block off that two hours, grab, grab some meats and cheeses from, you know, your grocery store, set out a little. Set out a little charcuterie board, have a picnic. Bro, you're getting fancy. This is how I would do it. Like, but just, mean, if you're, if you're inclined, grab some wine, whatever it is, but like, just sit and enjoy the day. Enjoy the, enjoy the family, enjoy the friends, whatever it is, but just sit and enjoy it for two hours. And he talked about, I mean, he gave some practical ideas, but the idea of creating a container for your Sabbath. And so he said he. The reason that it's Sabbath is that there is a day assigned to this. There's a schedule item assigned to this. I would say assign a schedule item to this. Don't do it once a week when it fits in your schedule. This is the schedule item. Work everything else around it. Right. And you know, Peter talks about the idea that, know, there's a legalism to it where you can be like, you know, there will occasionally be things that encroach on a Sabbath. Right. Yeah. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Right. ⁓ Talking, talking to Jesus, right? But the idea that there, there is grace there. But if the default is that this is our blocked time, two hours, you can expand it next time if you want, but start with two hours and do that for, do that for two months. That's only eight times, right? ⁓ start there and then see if you can do more. The one thing I love that you, in the example you just gave, I don't know about the meat and cheese, but cool. But the part I do like is- pickled things. Dude, slow down. You're learning Jonathan's got a little fence to him. I'm a little bougie. No, I'm just messing. But the thing I do like is it feels overwhelming because it's like, all right, I got to go full tilt this thing like 24 hours. And what Jonathan is saying is, hey, start with like a little- block of time, because you're probably good at that anyway, is you do a block of time for meetings, a block of time for sermon prep, a block of time for whatever your role requires. So take a little block of time. Does it feel overwhelming? It's almost like you need to make a plan in a sense, at least in the beginning. And don't be, don't be surprised if your mind wanders. Don't be surprised if you're feeling guilty. Don't be surprised if you begin to think of a list of things to do. But the more you practice this, And just tell God, God, I'm trying in this two hours, this one hour, this three hours, whatever it is, and ask him to help you. you, he wants to help you because you are stepping into something that is him, that he wants to enjoy that loving union with you. asking to help you give me wisdom, help me to block it, keep distractions from me. Of course, soon as you pray, keep distractions from me, you're going to be bombarded by distractions, but realizing those. So again, kind of strengthening your notice or muscle in order to, I'm not going to pay attention to those things. I'm going to zero in here, but I love all of that to say a lot of words to say, I love that you started with a small block of time. It feels more manageable than trying to do a 12 or 24 hour thing. Okay. So, so here's a question I have in the example that you just gave. And again, could be a lot of examples. When we think about the decision to do this, how could someone's leadership change if they actually practiced the Sabbath? Yeah, that's a really good question. think part of the problem with Sabbath for people in ministry is that we don't see the results. You know, I think they're not measurable. think they are measurable. You're right. Like when you look back on it, I think you'll see like, wow, I had become a more pleasant boss. I have become more compassionate. I have become, which is, know, like we're in ministry, but the idea that sometimes you're not compassionate while you're serving people. ⁓ I have become more patient. have become less stressed whenever things feel out of my control. So there are, there are definitely benefits from it, but I think that's part of the problem with the Sabbath is if we saw that like. ⁓ man, my creativity shot up 20%. You know, if we, ⁓ yeah, my meetings, you know, went shorter, you know, whatever, if we saw those like amazing results for our productivity, we would do it, but we don't see those because it is largely a discipline that is more of, it's more about who we are than what we do. And it's hard to measure that. It's hard to measure who you are. ⁓ When you look back on your life, you see that it's very measurable. But in the moment, it's hard to see it from an outside perspective. Everyone around you will see it whenever you start doing this. ⁓ But it's hard because we evaluate ourselves and we don't evaluate ourselves correctly a lot of times. That's what I would say. I don't know, you feel like there's any direct benefits? I don't know that I would not expect to see something. That's also for me though, like that's how I went into marriage. That's how I went into kids. Like think everyone goes into like marriage with like, ⁓ it's gonna be amazing. And then like the first argument you have, you're like, whoa, what? That's not what I thought. So I'm like. I'm going to go into this and not experiencing anything beneficial, anything good. It's going to suck. It's going to be a fight. And then whenever I get the enjoyment from it, I'm like, wow, marriage is, marriage is wonderful. Same thing with kids. Kids are wonderful. Right? Like that's how I approach things. And then I'm very rarely disappointed for that reason. Yeah. Yeah. I, and, and I should have probably prefaced my question a little bit. I'm not suggesting you do this for an outcome or do this to get something from it. I do think there is a byproduct, but that is not the motive. The motive is to enjoy Him. And whatever flows out of that is bonus, right? But I do think, yeah, I do think that when you are arrested leader, I think the trust in Him deepens. think the courage that you lead with expands. think, you know, because if you're trusting him deeper and you have that intimacy with him, there's, there are these things, the courage to act bravely, the maybe, I think you lead with, arrested leader leads with clarity. I think arrested leader ⁓ makes better decisions. I think, you know, arrested leader brings more to the team, which is, you know, saying that out loud makes me think about this question. What does a rested leader bring to a team? So maybe that's something we chat about for a sec. So if you lead a team of staff or if you lead a team of volunteers, because a lot of us measure, you know, is there a possible outcome? Again, that's not the goal, but how does a rested leader, not an arrested leader, but a rested leader. know I keep hearing arrested. I know, I know that, I just heard myself and let me clarify. How does a. rested leader, and, you know, bring more to a team or enhance a team. Like, what do you think again, whether that team staff, volunteers, like, what do you think? I tend to bring sort of a frenetic energy to my team where I, I get an idea and I act on it. Right. Like I, I am so instinctual. am so in the moment. Consequently. things that I decide one day I might realize the next day were a bad idea. And so I don't have a lot of clarity sometimes whenever I make decisions. My team loves me and they, they give me a lot of grace for that, right? Like they like, ⁓ that's Jonathan. And often these ideas work out well, right? But every now and then I'm like, I have to apologize. like, guys, I'm sorry, we shouldn't have done that. Or I jumped the gun. I made this change too quickly and it was stressful for you guys. And I think clarity will help us. to avoid those things that would, you know, we're talking about how to not burn out ourselves. We're not talking, we're talking about how to, how to be emotionally healthy ourselves. But, ⁓ and we talk with, in chapter seven, we'll talk about, ⁓ you know, the, the, the team building part of it, right? But like the idea that if our teams are healthy too, that benefits us as well, because then our teams are not putting lack of clarity on us and our teams are not putting last minute things on us. There is this. you know, when the, you know, rising tide lifts all boats, right? Like whenever we are able to rest, whenever we're able to bring clarity, it can raise the whole organization. And we all are working with more clarity because of that. Yeah. I remember years ago, I don't know, think it was Craig Rochelle at Life.Church said, you know, when a leader gets better, others around the leader get better, the org, the church gets better. ⁓ And so the decision to do this is not Well, God, I'm going to do this, therefore give to me. But the biggest message we want you to hear is you're not doing this to get God to love you more or to say, what I did with you. It's literally the relationship is already just surrounded by love because he is love and he loves to be with you and wants you to be with him. And he restores you any, and the thing about it is I sometimes think I know what I need and I don't. And he knows what I need. so, you know, I think one of the things that he knows that I need, and when I choose to do this, you just gave an example of for you, for me, I will often hear this from people and I can't take any credit. I think this is an overflow and a benefit of practicing what we're talking about. A lot of times people will say, you know, When you're, when I'm with you, there's this calm steadiness, which is interesting because I tend to be a driver and fast moving and get things done. But I think what I've learned by practicing this again, I'm still learning is the slowing down and being with and the calming that he gives to me that then overflows when I'm with people that I could be calm and slow down. and see you that you feel like I am with you because that's exactly how I experience him and just this delight with him. And I think the carryover for me is slowing down so people feel like Jason enjoys being with me. And I think that's one thing I pull over from practicing this into the world of leadership for me. I think the creation, the design of the Sabbath. One thing that it does is that it protects you and me and other leaders listening right now from literally becoming machines. We just do and we do and we do and we do and we do and he says, hey, I created the Sabbath for you. I want to be with you. It's like, I got a lot of stuff going on. Welcome to humanity. But he must know something we don't. And he knows what we need. And I think many of us know we need something different. But it's so hard to separate ourselves long enough to be with him. And just by being with him, he gives to us the things that we need. Again, the restoration of the soul. Because from the depths of us, if we led from that part, the part that comes from being with him, and our leadership changes, we show up differently, clarity is different, decision making is different, our presence is different. And so what I think I would encourage us all to do is to be reminded that if we want to be an emotionally healthy leader, we have to lead from being replenished by that Sabbath delight that we're practicing, not depletion. And many, many leaders are leading from a place of depletion wondering, how did I ever get here? And I think the invitation is from Jesus, hey, come be with me because I love to be with you. That's good. think what I would, the last thing I would probably encourage people, and this is maybe like, if you're looking for a reason to do this, this is the reason. I think of Gen X people, think of Gen Z, I think of millennials. We all have this kind of rebellious, like rebel against the man kind of vibe. Peter pushed the idea that Sabbath is a form of resistance. It's a form of resistance to the status quo. It is common to hustle. You're not being unique by being a hustling leader, right? So what if instead you rebelled against that norm and said, no, I'm going to actually go a different way. I think a lot of us find that like, ⁓ yeah, I'm being rebellious by practicing Sabbath. That's pretty cool. Like that would be my encouragement for you. Rebel against the man, rebel against the hustle by practicing Sabbath. But yeah, we hope this was a helpful episode for you. ⁓ Next week, we're talking about chapter six, which starts to get into a lot more of the like nitty gritty of how do you start. working with a team as an emotionally healthy leader, which is really fun. So we'll see you next week. Again, subscribe if you haven't already find us on social media, talk to us. love chatting with people, but we'll see you next week.