Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #176: Unraveling the Legacy of Pope Leo XIV

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Catholic Conversations #176: Unraveling the Legacy of Pope Leo XIV · Catholic Spirit Radio

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Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Hello everyone and welcome to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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I'm your host, Paul Garcia, and today we have a very special guest joining us, Dr.
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Matthew Bunsen, a renowned Catholic journalist, historian, and author,
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known for his work with EWTN and for his deep insights into life and mission of the Catholic Church.
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Today, we'll be discussing his new book, Leo XIV, Portrait of the First American Pope.
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In this authoritative and engaging biography, Dr.
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Bunsen paints a rich, in-depth portrait of our newly elected Holy Father,
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Pope Leo XIV, formerly Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost.
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From his roots in suburban Chicago to his missionary work in Peru,
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and ultimately his rise to the Chair of St.
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Peter, this story is as improbable as it is inspiring. We'll dive into the Pope's
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background, what makes him uniquely American, his unique Augustinian heritage,
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and what his leadership may mean for the church moving forward.
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And we'll also talk with Dr. Bunsen about his work at EWTN and his own journey
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as a Catholic voice in the media.
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Dr. Bunsen, welcome to Catholic Conversations. It's an honor to have you with us.
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I'm very good to be with you. I love Catholic radio, so it's a delight to...
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Oh, well, we are very delighted to have you.
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So, first off, how did this project come about?
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When did you decide, and why, to write this book on Pope Leo XIV?
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Well, I had the privilege in 2005 of writing a similar biography on Pope Benedict
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XVI, and then again in 2013, right after the election of Pope Francis.
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So, obviously, with the election of any pope, this is an exciting moment for
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the Church, but then And we also realized that the election of Pope Leo XIV,
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Robert Francis Cardinal Prevost, had immense implications for the church in
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the United States and really for the Americans, which is why we call him the first American pope.
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So really, the day after his election on May 8th, we had conversations and decided, let's do this.
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And happily, we were able to get the book out, and it was officially published on May 22nd.
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So it isn't very often in your life that you get to have a book launch in the
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Vatican, but that's what we were able to do.
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And we see this as a very important service, not just for Catholics,
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but for anyone who's interested in learning more about our new Holy Spirit.
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Very nice. And what kind of book is this? Obviously, it's a biography,
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but is it a big, thick one? Is it a hard read?
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What's the age level that you think is appropriate for buying this book in?
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And also, where can you buy it?
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Yeah, well, the book itself is intended, as the title says, it's a portrait.
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And the goal is to help readers everywhere, and now also listeners,
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because we have a book that's an audio version book, and then also the Kindle version of that.
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What this is intended to do is to provide a glimpse into his life,
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so you'll understand the context of where he grew up in the Chicago area,
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what his family life was like, and then the deep influences on his life,
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in particular, the Order of St. Augustine.
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As he says, he is a son of Augustine. He's been a member of the Augustinian Order for 64 years.
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He was only 69, so he went in at the age of 14. But then let me try to look at two key questions.
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The first is, what was it about Robert Francis Prevost that attracted the cardinals,
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the super majority of the cardinals, to elect him pope?
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What were his attributes? What was it about him?
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And then the second question is where, based on what we know about him and based
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on everything he has said so far, do we think that he's going to take the direction
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he's going to take to church and what are some of his key priorities as Pope?
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And it's really the key to understanding why we wanted to do this book.
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Mm-hmm. I see. Very, very interesting. Before I ask you about those attributes
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in the direction you think that he might be taking the church,
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I want to ask, have you ever met the Pope either as his time as a cardinal or before that even?
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And now as a Pope, I know you said you were in the Vatican for this book launch.
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Have you met him? And if you haven't, do you think you will in the near future?
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I certainly hope to meet him as Pope Leo XIV. I met him very,
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very briefly, not too long after he was brought to Rome as the head of the dicastery for bishops.
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It was at an event in Rome. But again, it was very brief.
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And as a cardinal, it was noted that he kept a pretty low profile.
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He wasn't somebody who was out there every day doing media, which I think,
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from his standpoint, is very prudent given the significance of the role that
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he had as prefect of the Dicastrophe for bishops.
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But certainly this is someone that I would very much like to meet and have a conversation with.
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Oh, absolutely. And you mentioned that low profile. If I'm not mistaken,
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I think it was that meeting they were talking about with a lot of bishops anyway
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in the Vatican, where Bishop Barron spoke about meeting him.
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And he said that he is extremely quiet. He said he was probably one of the most
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quiet individuals that he spoke to. and is that accurate?
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Has he always been like that? I guess you'd be the person to ask.
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Well, yes. One of the things that's striking about him that everyone comments
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on is the best way to put it is there are two words in Italian that have been
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used for him. One is calma.
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So he's somebody who's calm, who's tranquil.
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But the other is sereno, which is he's somebody who's positively serene.
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And he is, in that sense, very quiet, but it can be a deceptive quiet because
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he also has a very developed and good sense of humor. He knows how to connect with people.
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So simply because you're quiet doesn't necessarily mean that you're uninteresting
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or disengaged or detached. He's very much present.
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And one of the things that was interesting in covering the two synods in 2023
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and 2024, because I was over there covering both of those events in the life
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of the church, The people who sat at his table, remember there were these little
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round tables throughout the Senate,
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the people who shared those tables with him all commented in very similar ways
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that they couldn't remember anything that was earth-shattering that he said
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during the discussions. but there was something about him.
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There was a calmness about him and an openness and a listening about him.
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And those are all attributes that are hallmarks of what people have said about him now for decades.
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It is said by one of the Latin American cardinals that,
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He has one mouth but two ears and he uses both.
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He uses both of his ears. He listens attentively and he sees the person he's
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talking to, especially when he has to make a decision.
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So those are, I think, major attributes that help really get him elected.
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Wow. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, he's two ears, one mouth, and he uses both of his ears.
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Very important. And I hope he uses those to listen to, well,
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the church body, the people.
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You know what? I'm not going to get ahead of myself here. I want to ask you,
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you said that there's something about him that resonated with a lot of people.
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And it made me think of some of the media that I've consumed regarding him right
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after he was elected as our Pope.
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I listened to a lot of interviews with his brothers and his brothers said things
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about when they were in first grade.
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Not sure if that's the correct grade that he had a teacher that said,
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you're going to be the first American Pope.
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Did you write about that at all? And did you learn anything interesting about that topic?
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Yeah, it's absolutely true that as a young man, as a child, he would pretend
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to say mass. He would play saying mass.
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He would say mass, pretend to be, using an ironing board and Necco wafers.
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And his brothers were the congregation. I'm thinking it's a pretty unruly congregation
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if you're relying on your brothers for that.
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But it was clear to everyone in the family, in the family circles,
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in their friends, and in the neighborhood that this kid was clearly called to be a priest.
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And you're absolutely right that somebody at one point said,
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yeah, you're going to be the first American pope, because there was a mark on
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him that was very clear that he was called to the priesthood.
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What is interesting is that here's the importance of family.
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And he's talked about this in terms of the importance of family.
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That this was the environment in which the discernment of that vocation to the
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priesthood and by analogy, anyone who's discerning within a proper healthy family atmosphere,
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that the family is supportive of this vocation.
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It is supportive of this discernment. And I think that can't be underestimated
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in the life of Robert Prevost, that his family was always there.
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And you could see the relationship he still has with his brother.
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I mean, brothers, he plays wordle with them.
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He called them on the day of his election and sort of teased them,
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why aren't you picking up your phone?
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And you could see it on display on May 18th when he was installed as pope when
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there was a receiving line after the mass.
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And he had heads of states and crowned state heads of states and prime ministers
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and presidents and ambassadors.
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And his brother Lewis came up to him and they just looked at each other for
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a second and then I'm sure to the horror of the experts in Vatican Protocol
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gave each other this huge hug that only two brothers can give each other.
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And that spoke volumes about the relationship that he has had and continues
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to have with his brothers.
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I think that's one of the most charming things about Pope Leo XIV is his connection with his brothers.
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I love it. And it is such a treat for us Americans, us English-speaking people,
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to have an English-speaking pope. Of course, he's bilingual.
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Who knows? Maybe trilingual. I guess you would know that. But it is just so
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lovely to see his connection with his brothers.
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I can't tell you how much I love that. And I did see that interview as well,
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where his brother is being interviewed when he received a call from his brother,
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now Pope Leo XIV, and he started talking to him while on camera.
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I thought that was pretty funny. But okay, now we only have you for a limited amount of time here.
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I want to ask just a few big questions that, of course, our listeners want to get to.
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And I hope that we can get to a few other things about his history,
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his upbringing, and things like this. The direction that he is likely to take,
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what are his ideas, his philosophies?
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What is his kind of, for lack of a better term, his culture within Catholicism? Is he traditional?
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I've read things, heard things about him wearing Latin vestments.
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He has a love for the Latin mass, maybe, and that comes with tradition.
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What can you tell me about that topic?
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Yeah, well, so as I mentioned, he is a thorough Augustinian,
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which means that he has spent many decades in the Augustinian tradition.
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I'm going to ask, what does that mean? Well, he's a member of the Order of St.
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Augustine, which he was given its definitive form only in the 13th century.
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So it's a mendicant order like the Franciscans and the Dominicans.
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It takes as its heart the rule of St.
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Augustine, which includes things like community life, of friendships,
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of hospitality, but also has deeply imbued in it the pursuit of truth,
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like Augustine himself, which he searched for the truth all his life,
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which leads ultimately, if you find that truth, and we proclaim proudly that
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that truth is Jesus Christ, that when you have that encounter,
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you have the love of God, which then impels you toward love of neighbor,
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which is why the Augustinians are a great missionary order.
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They're a great educational order.
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They care for the poor, for the suffering.
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And so in that tradition, Robert Prevost, Father Robert, became a missionary.
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And you can see how well he adapted to the missionary field,
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because he was there for decades and was a beloved figure in Peru,
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but also how well-respected he was within the order that they chose him as basically
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their prior general, as the person who would run the order.
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And they voted for him twice.
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I mean, basically, he was there for 12 years running the order.
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And that's an important aspect of who he is, and I think one of the key reasons
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to why he was elected pope.
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Very interesting. Yeah, it's he's so, you know, you spoke about he's calm,
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serene. He connects with people. He listens.
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He's just so unsuspecting as being the most famous person in the world.
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I like to think. Where are you calling from today, by the way, Dr. Bunsen?
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I'm in Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C., okay.
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They probably don't have Casey's General stores there. But I think if the Pope
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walked into a Casey's General store, he would likely go unrecognized.
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It's just, he's so ordinary.
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And he's so, like you said, some people are saying he was, he didn't say anything
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earth-shattering, kind of unremarkable.
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But wow, what an amazing individual.
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And I have a good number more questions for you when we come back from the break.
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But first, here are a few beloved words from our sponsors.
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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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I'm your host, Paul Garcia, and I have the honor of speaking with the one and only Dr.
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Matthew Bunsen, author of Leo XIV, Portrait of the First American Pope.
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It came out quick, and it's a great read, and Dr.
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Bunsen really knows his stuff, and it's been a pleasure speaking with him.
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We've got just a few more minutes with him, and I want to get right to it. But Dr.
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Bunsen, how significant is
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it that this is the first American pope in the long history of the church?
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I heard so many just a few months ago talking about how there's no way there's
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going to be an American pope, especially not now.
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Donald Trump is in office. You're calling from Washington, D.C.
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You're very politically knowledgeable, I'm sure. And they're like,
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no, no, there's too much going on.
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There's no way an American is going to be a pope, especially not this time.
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Maybe not ever, but especially not this time. And then boom,
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we have Robert Prevost becoming Pope Leo XIV from Chicago, the area of Chicago, Illinois.
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Well, how significant is that? And why do you think this happened?
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Well, that's a really important question because you're absolutely right that
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the assumption always has been that there's no possible way that an American would be elected pope.
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And Cardinal Prévost was certainly on our radar as somebody who is very interesting,
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very eminently qualified to be elected pope.
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But when you would talk to experts in their conventional wisdom,
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which is always a dangerous thing, but when you talk to people in Rome and in
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covering the Vatican and other things, they would say, well, yes, he's,
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perfectly qualified, except he's an American. And we all know that an American would never be elected.
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But when you look at why, one is this idea of America as the great superpower.
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America is certainly a great superpower militarily, economically,
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politically, but especially culturally, that we shape the world in so many different
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ways through media, through technology, and other things.
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And so it was assumed that the optics wouldn't look right, that if they were
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to elect an American cardinal, that the optics would be that,
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oh, somehow America is now taking over the papacy too.
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But then there's another aspect that the church in the United States is very
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young relative to the history of the church.
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Only in 1908 was the church in the United States lifted from missionary status,
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in other words, under the more direct oversight of OEC, that matters to a lot of people.
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So even though that there were truly eminent and qualified cardinals over the
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decades, it just never really occurred to anyone that an American would be or
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could be elected until, that is, they met Robert Prevost.
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Why? Because, well, certainly he was born in America, but he'd been gone for
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many decades. Well, you and I have been talking about his time in Peru and then
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in Rome and then back in Peru and then back in Rome and then traveling the world to the Augustinians.
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So he was not somebody who is directly associated with the United States like
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other cardinals would be who are, quote, American cardinals.
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And then there is the languages you asked earlier about how many languages do
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you speak? Well, he speaks English, of course, Italian, Spanish fluently, French, Portuguese.
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He also knows some German and knows Latin and Greek. So basically eight languages.
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That sets him apart, certainly. Now, we have quite a number of Americans who
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are polyglots themselves in terms of language,
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but there was just no clear, obvious association on the part of Robert Pralost
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with the United States, and I think that factored in heavily.
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Although, the best way to put it is that, as the Cardinals discussed amongst
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themselves, the person they were looking for, and he had all of these attributes,
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at the end of the day, it just didn't matter to them that he happened to have
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been born in Chicago, Illinois. Right.
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Absolutely. And nor should it. And I think it's really interesting.
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I saw a video of when he was still with the Augustinians on YouTube of him speaking
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about the choosing of the pope and who will serve as pope.
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And he said, we do as Catholics, we believe that the Holy Spirit guides the
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decisions of the cardinals to determine who the new pope is, do we not?
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So therefore, even Pope Francis, who I believe he was close to,
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you can correct me there, but he said, that in a lot of Catholics,
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I think, lose sight of this.
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But yeah, the Holy Spirit chose Pope Francis for a reason.
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And this is before he would know that, you know, that the Holy Spirit chose him then.
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But on another note here, how does he compare then to Pope Francis?
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I know we talked about it briefly, but I don't know if I got the most straight answer there.
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Is he more conservative, more traditional than Pope Francis? What do you think?
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The best way to answer that is that Pope Leo XIV clearly sees himself in continuity.
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He's an and Pope. So in other words, he's not asking people to choose.
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It's not a choice between Francis and Leo XIV or Francis and Benedict XVI or
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Francis and John Paul II.
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He looks at all of them. He sees himself not exclusively the successor of Pope
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Francis, but as successor of Peter.
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He is the 266th successor to Peter.
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And I think he sees himself very clearly in that line, that unbroken line of
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succession from Peter all the way forward to the life of the church.
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And that's an important aspect to understand about him because he is building everything he does on.
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On bringing people together, on building those bridges,
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the name Pontifex, but on unifying everyone of trying to heal within the world
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some of the great divisions that exist, but also to heal within the church some
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of the divisions that exist.
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So he's striking in the sense that visually and in so many of the things that he says,
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he's connecting himself to the great traditions and symbols of the papacy,
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but also to the great teachings of the popes over the centuries,
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especially the most modern ones.
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So as I was saying with him, it's an and, and, and that will make him very difficult to categorize.
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I make the prediction that somewhere along the line, he will irritate people,
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that he will disappoint someone, but that's also the nature of the papacy,
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of the decisions that he has to make.
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But if he serves and governs the way he certainly has demonstrated over the decades,
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he is somebody, I think, who will listen first, who will not build consensus,
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but help people to understand and know that they've been heard before he makes that decision.
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But when he makes that decision, it's a decisive one.
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Right. So we're jumping around here a little bit, but we know he's from Chicago.
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But what can you tell us about where Pope Leo XIV grew up.
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I've heard that he moved around. I know he's a White Sox fan,
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and our listeners do as well.
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I've heard he also went to Michigan for a little while. Do you know where he
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went to high school, or you said it was a suburb of Chicago rather than a city? In Holland.
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So he went to a junior seminary for the Augustinians there. So he's certainly
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a product of, I think, classically the Midwest.
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And so he went to, obviously, grade school in Dalton, Illinois,
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just outside of Chicago, and then went to junior seminary.
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And then as he was embarking on his time with the Augustinians,
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he was going to be sent to another Augustinian school, House of Formation,
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but it closed given the upheaval of the times.
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And that's how he ended up in Villanova, which is a school run by the Augustinians
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and majored in all things in mathematics.
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So I joke that it's helpful. He's the first real math expert we've had as pope
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in many centuries, the last one, the urban ace who dealt with Galileo.
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And it's a good thing to have both a canonist and an expert in canon law.
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He earned a doctorate in canon law in Rome and also a mathematician,
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because given the the state of Vatican finances, it's really good to have somebody who can add. Right.
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Wow. Now, that's very interesting. He seems like an exceptionally smart,
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borderline genius type of individual, knowing eight languages.
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Doctorate in canon law, and being a math major.
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He must be a very smart guy, right?
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There's no question that this is somebody who is an absolute intellect,
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but who also is deeply imbued in the great traditions and teachings of the church.
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And I think that also matters profoundly.
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Absolutely. Well, it's been great speaking with you, Dr. Brunson.
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But before we go, is there anything else that you think our listeners should
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know about our Holy Father, Pope Leo XIV?
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Yeah, that I think his time as Pope is going to be marked profoundly,
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I think, by the motto that he chose as a bishop and has now carried that over into being Pope.
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And that is, in ilo uno unum, in Christ we are one.
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It's taken from Augustine, a commentary that he wrote on Psalm 127.
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I think that is one of those great pillars that.
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Is building, and it's going to be the foundations for this pontificate,
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that he sees unity in Christ that we're all called to, and to find then that peace of Christ.
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And I think that's something that we need to stay very focused on as we try
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to understand what Pope Leo is saying.
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I love it. In God, we are one. The future is looking bright for us Catholics.
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I assume that is your belief as well, right, Dr. Bunsen? The future is looking bright?
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Oh, yes. Yes, we are a people of hope and always will be.
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Love it. Well, Dr. Bunsen, thank you so much for sharing your time and insight with us today.
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Your work helps us not only learn about the new Holy Father,
26:20
Pope Leo XIV, but also to reflect more deeply on what it means to be Catholic
26:24
in this moment in history.
26:26
If you'd like to get a copy of this book, listeners, Leo XIV,
26:29
Portrait of the First American Pope, you can find it where, Dr. Bunsen?
26:34
You can go to Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, and then also EWTN.com at the Religious
26:40
Catalog. There you have it, everyone.
26:42
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, EWTN. You can find this book in a number of places.
26:46
Until next time, may God bless you all and guide the Holy Father as he leads
26:51
the church forward in faith and truth.
26:53
And again, Dr. Bunsen, thank you so much for your time and for your work in
26:57
this beautiful new book.
26:59
The privilege is all ours. Thank you very much. You've been listening to Catholic Conversations.
27:05
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27:12
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Music.
28:01
Welcome to the teachings of Father Al Lauer.
28:05
Jesus Christ is Lord. In Philippians 2 it says, At the name of Jesus,
28:10
every knee must bend, every tongue proclaim.
28:13
Say it with your heart, say it with your lives.
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Jesus Christ is Lord. This is Daily Bread. I'm Father Al Lauer.
28:20
And we're so glad to be with you. And we are teaching on, this is a subject
28:25
that I think a lot of people have been struggling with, how to get your kids to church,
28:34
to go to church and go to heaven.
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I know so many committed Christians and they love God with all their heart.
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And the thing that is just so burdening to them is that their children,
28:49
that they have just prayed for for years and reached out to for years,
28:55
that their children are not sharing faith in Jesus with their parents.
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Now, that's what we're going to talk about today. And don't be discouraged. Be hopeful.
29:09
God has got some good news for you, parents. But we're going to start off praying.
29:14
All right, let's just pray right now. We want to bless everybody.
29:16
This water reminds us that we are baptized. We're children of God.
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We can talk to God and call him Father.
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And that's the amazing thing that we can. We have a new nature.
29:26
We have become new creations in Jesus.
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So we're going to bless you all. and remind you of who you are in Jesus.
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And let's pray. Father, we come before you as your children.
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We come before you as being baptized into Jesus's death and resurrection.
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We come before you as temples of the Holy Spirit. And we just bring every family before you.
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And we pray, Lord, that these families would be one in heart and mind and one
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in spirit under the lordship of your son, Jesus.
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We remove all obstacles. And Jesus be Lord of whole families,
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not just the parents, not just one, not just one spouse, not just half the family.
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But Jesus be Lord of all the families as every member of the family surrenders his or her life to you.
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We pray this now in Jesus name.
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Amen. OK, this is an important matter. I don't think we can talk about things
30:25
that would be much more important because this is a matter of eternal life.
30:31
I believe in a few years from now, there's going to be a family reunion in heaven.
30:37
And I believe that God would make it possible for you to have that reunion and
30:44
not one family member would be missing.
30:47
You have six children. You have four grandchildren. Not one would be missing.
30:52
Not an uncle missing. Not an aunt missing.
30:55
Everybody in your family together with Jesus, with you forever in the perfect happiness of heaven.
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Just think about that. Isn't that fantastic?
31:10
Now, a lot of you might be kind of depressed about that and say,
31:13
oh, it doesn't seem like that's going to work out that way.
31:17
Let me share a few scriptures with you and thank God for the word of God.
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The word is our light. The word is our lamp.
31:26
Look at Joshua 24, famous scripture, Joshua 24, 15.
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Joshua says, as for me and my house, that means my household,
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my family, we will serve the Lord.
31:40
The Lord's will is that the whole family serve the Lord. It is not his will
31:47
that your son is not involved in your Christian faith, that you can't share that together.
31:55
That's not God's will. And God's will will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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Another scripture, this is Acts of the Apostles 16.
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Lydia, first convert of the Western world.
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She is baptized, but listen to what they say here.
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Acts 16, 15. It says, after she and her household had been baptized,
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God's will is that the whole family be one in the faith.
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That's why most churches, based on these Bible passages, will baptize babies
32:32
if the parents are committed to Jesus.
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Because they know it's God's will that these children would share the same faith.
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And they baptize the babies right away. And that's biblical.
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Acts 16, same chapter, a little bit further on.
32:52
The jailer of the Philippi jail, in Acts 16, verse 30, he says,
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Men, what must I do to be saved?
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And the answer was, Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.
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And we would just say, period.
33:09
But Paul doesn't say, period. it. He says, and you will be saved and all,
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I like that word, all, all, I bet you like that word, and all your household.
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Now, that is fantastic news, brothers and sisters. Let's look at Isaiah now.
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I hope you're following along. If you can't keep up, just write these things
33:32
down, or maybe you can borrow the tape.
33:36
We don't sell the tapes, but you can maybe borrow it.
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Isaiah 59 and verse 21. Now listen to this one.
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This is the covenant with them. That means with the chosen people,
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which I myself have made, says the Lord.
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The Lord has made a covenant with you. He says, I want to promise you something.
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My spirit, which is upon you. Many of you watching this program are filled with
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the Holy Spirit. Praise God.
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And my words that I have put into your mouth, the Lord has given you his word.
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You have devoured his word. The word is the joy of your life.
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You have the word of God in you.
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The word that God has put into your mouth shall never leave your mouth.
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Now listen to this. nor the mouse of your children, nor the mouse of your children's
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children, grandparents, that's encouraging, from now on and forever, says the Lord.
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Now, wow, that is good news. That's fantastic. I know the devil's trying to
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make you feel discouraged and say, might as well give up. Things are too bad.
34:47
Your kids, your grandkids are
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so far away from God. There's no hope for them. Let's look at Isaiah 49.
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Isaiah 49, verse 24.
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They asked a question. Can booty be taken from a warrior or a cactus be rescued from a tyrant?
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There's been a war and some people lost the war and their possessions have been
35:11
confiscated by the conquering army. That's booty.
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Some of the people have been captured in the war. That's the captives.
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Now, after you lose a war and your property has been confiscated and people
35:26
have become prisoners of war, can that be changed?
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Normally, the answer is no.
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But it says, surprisingly, Isaiah chapter 49, verse 25, yes,
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yes, captives can be taken from a tyrant and booty can be rescued.
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From a warrior, from a tyrant. And those who oppose you, I will oppose.
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God is going to oppose your enemies.
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And your sons, and I might add for that matter, daughters, I will save.
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The war is for the children.
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The victory has been the victory of the devil to take your children from the Lord.
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But that can change, yes. the booty, the captive, meaning your own children
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that have been stolen from you and stolen from God can be returned to God and
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returned to you and returned to the faith.
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Now, that is fantastic news, brothers and sisters, tremendous news.
36:33
Now, a lot of times people say, well, what do I do? I just say a little prayer
36:37
or two and that does it, huh?
36:39
Well, I believe you have to simply obey God. Now, it's going to be the work
36:44
of God, sure, but you'll be part of that work, and you just obey Him.
36:49
I'm going to share with you four biblical truths that are in this little pamphlet.
36:54
You can send for this pamphlet. We'd be glad to send it to you.
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Whether you make an offering or not, that's not the issue. We will send it to you.
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And the pamphlet is how to get your kids to go to church and to go to heaven.
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Now, in this pamphlet, there are four truths that we want to emphasize,
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which are primary ways in which you will participate in God's saving work for
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your whole family and for your children.
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The first truth is.
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Matthew 10, verse 8. The gift you have received, give as a gift.
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You have been saved. You have been redeemed.
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You have new life in Jesus. That's the gift.
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Give it. The gift you've received, give as a gift. Give it to your children.
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See, I've only tried to, and they have not accepted.
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Sometimes the parents don't really have the gift to share.
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Yes, they have a new nature in Christ because they've been baptized,
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but they're not living a love for God with all their heart, all their soul,
38:13
all their mind, and all their strength.
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What you can share with your children is not a cultural Christianity.
38:23
You can't pass that on necessarily.
38:27
God did not say, my will is that cultural Christianity be passed on.
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He's not saying, my will is that just going to church without really having
38:40
a total commitment to Jesus, that you pass that on.
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My will is that a Sunday obligation be passed on. He didn't say that.
38:49
Now, that's part of it, but he wants a lot more than that.
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He says, my promise is, my will is, that a total commitment to Jesus will be passed on.
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Now, a lot of parents don't have it. And if you don't have it,
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you don't have it to give.
39:07
So what we need to do is first look at our own selves,
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the parents, the adults in a family, and say, do I really love God with all
39:23
my heart and all my soul and all my mind and all my strength?
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And if you do, God will do everything short of taking away that other person's
39:34
free will to help you pass that on.
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He won't pass on just church attendance or Sunday obligation or a code of ethics or traditions.
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These things are all good, but he wants to pass on the whole thing, not just part of it.
39:52
So parents should share their faith with their children.
39:55
Parents should just periodically just start talking to the children and say,
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I've raised you to be a child of God, but you need to make a personal commitment to that.
40:09
What about it? And you just evangelize them.
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A lot of people say, well, parents, they can't really evangelize their own kids.
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Well, not always, but mostly.
40:20
Mostly, the person that should lead you to Christ should be your parents.
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That's the way God would want it to be.
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All right, a second truth. First one is you got to have it to give it.
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Give it a gift. What's been given to you? Matthew 10, verse 8.
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Second truth, Matthew 18, verses 19 and 20.
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Again, I tell you, if two of you join your voices on earth to pray for anything,
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whatever, it shall be granted to you by my Father in heaven.
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Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in their midst.
40:55
So it says praying together. That doesn't mean just showing up in the same building
41:00
for Sunday. That's part of it, but it's more than that.
41:03
It means the word in Greek that joined together is symphony.
41:10
Now, a symphony is not just a bunch of musicians showing up at the same building.
41:15
No, no, there's a lot more to it than that. They have to practice and really
41:20
work to get a very close-knit unity,
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very, very detailed, deep unity, developed unity, where just everything is perfect timing.
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It's not like the violins just play here and there whenever they feel like it
41:40
or they might think it fits in.
41:41
No, it's all pretty well organized.
41:44
It's closely united.
41:47
That's what that word is in Greek, symphony. When we got a close-knit unity
41:53
in prayer, whatever you're asking for, it's done.
41:59
So brothers and sisters, the family that prays together, stays together,
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family prayer, what does that mean?
42:07
It means the couple, the parents, just the two of them praying together.
42:11
It means the whole family praying together. And it means parents praying together
42:17
with the children one-on-one.
42:20
And you say, well, we'll maybe have prayers a couple or one night a week and
42:26
maybe for five minutes and get the family together another night a week for
42:30
five minutes and pray with the individual kids.
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Well, every couple of weeks, whenever we kind of get a chance to talk with them.
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No, I don't mean that. Every day, every day, every day, couple prayer every
42:43
day, family prayer every day, one-to-one in the family prayer.
42:47
Say, well, gosh, I'll be praying all day.
42:49
Not necessarily. Well, you're supposed to be praying always,
42:52
so you should be, but maybe not in that context.
42:56
Just a couple minutes with the individuals, a couple minutes here with the family.
43:02
Maybe it would be nice to get more than that if possible, but a few minutes with the spouse.
43:07
This whole thing might take, if you do all three dimensions,
43:12
which is what you should do, 10 minutes, 15 minutes.
43:17
So it could be more than that. It would be ideal if it would be,
43:20
but it's not like this is so impossible, really.
43:26
I hope you understand this. Third truth.
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First one is, give the gift of what's been given to you. Second one is,
43:33
family prays together, stays together.
43:35
You join together in prayer. Count on God to really move. Third one, Ephesians 6, verse 4.
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Fathers, notice that first word, fathers. Do not anger your children.
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Bring them up with the training and instruction befitting the Lord.
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You fathers should raise your kids just like Joseph and Mary raised Jesus.
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Do you understand what we're talking about?
44:04
You got the same responsibilities they did. Now, wait a minute.
44:08
They were raising Jesus.
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He's the son of God. He's the Messiah. Yeah, but Jesus said,
44:13
the Father said, the Spirit said in the Bible, you should raise your kids in the same way.
44:20
And even though I'm sure this applies to mothers, notice that they address fathers specifically here.
44:29
So the third point is the father makes the difference whether the children continue to go to church.
44:39
This is a biblical principle, but it has also been statistically shown.
44:47
There was a study done a few years ago, and there's been other studies that
44:51
corroborate this conclusion.
44:54
Why do some kids continue being active in church and other kids just kind of
45:02
drop out sometimes for forever and sometimes for a few years and then come back? Why?
45:09
He said, well, the ones who had a better education, religious education,
45:13
they probably stick with it. No, that didn't seem to do it.
45:18
The ones with a better family life where there was just a little bit nicer lifestyle
45:25
and not such a struggle to make ends meet, they probably were able to stay in church.
45:31
Well, no, not really. and say, well, the ones where mothers were really committed
45:37
to the church and involved, well, that's sad to say, didn't seem to do it either.
45:42
And say, well, the ones who ended up knowing the pastors personally or were
45:49
involved in youth activities or something, no, that didn't do it either.
45:54
There was only one aspect that seemed to make a significant difference,
46:02
And that was the participation and leadership of the father in the faith life of the family.
46:11
When the father went to church, kind of led the family in going to church,
46:16
that made a tremendous difference in how the kids continued with church.
46:23
That factor made a big difference and all the other factors didn't seem to have
46:29
that big of an effect. Fathers, bring up the kids with the training and instruction befitting the Lord.
46:40
Now our fourth point, I'll just review. First one, give us a guess what's been given to you.
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A lot of your parents don't have that deep personal commitment to Jesus.
46:48
Don't expect your kids to have it.
46:50
Don't expect your kids to have aspects of it.
46:53
You've got to have it, all of it, the total commitment if you're going to pass it on.
46:59
Number two, family that prays together, stays together.
47:04
Two or three gather in Jesus' name. That means that close-knit unity in prayer.
47:08
Whatever you pray for is done. Jesus' presence is there in a special way.
47:13
Third, fathers, you have the main responsibility for your children persevering
47:20
in the faith and in church. Fourth point, this is real important.
47:26
Parents, not peers, should be raising, discipling their children.
47:36
Parents, not peers. Let me give you two scriptures.
47:41
Acts 2.40, 1st Pentecost. Peter keeps saying, in support of his testimony,
47:46
he used many other arguments and he kept urging, what is the repeated message?
47:51
What is the refrain at the 1st Pentecost preaching?
47:57
And this is it. Save yourselves from this generation which has gone astray.
48:04
According to Acts 2.40, Peter kept saying that over and over again.
48:08
He probably preached on and says, And once again, save yourselves from this
48:12
generation which has gone astray. And then he said a few other things.
48:15
He says, save yourselves from this generation which has gone astray.
48:19
And he says, all I can tell you is save yourselves from this generation which
48:24
has gone astray. He kept urging them about this.
48:27
Another scripture, Romans 12.2, it says, do not conform yourselves to this age.
48:35
Don't be like everybody else.
48:38
Now, biblically, parents are to disciple their children.
48:45
Deuteronomy 6 and verse 4.
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Hear, O Israel, the great commandment. The Lord is our God, the Lord alone.
48:53
Therefore you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
48:57
with all your soul, and with all your strength. And listen to this.
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Take to heart these words which I enjoined on you today. Drill them into your
49:08
children. They're talking to parents here.
49:10
Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest.
49:14
The parents have the responsibility.
49:18
Now, I think a lot of people accept this in theory, but in practice,
49:22
the parents don't have much time with the kids.
49:26
The parents are just kind of glorified taxi drivers, really.
49:31
They just kind of take them from place to place. So here they are in the school.
49:37
There's several hours a day they're in school.
49:40
And the parents come to two or
49:43
four meetings a year for parent-teacher conferences, and that's about it.
49:48
They might help with the homework. I hope they do.
49:51
Then the kids are involved in all kinds of sports and other extracurricular
49:55
activities and stuff, and they're mostly with their peers.
49:58
So we found in our community, when we looked at it a few years ago,
50:03
that parents were spending just a few hours a week with their children,
50:08
and those children were spending 40,
50:11
50 hours a week with their peers. We felt it should be reversed.
50:16
Sure, kids should spend time with their peers, but a lot more time with their
50:21
parents, just simple as that.
50:23
I think you should spend 50 hours a week and real sharing with parents,
50:27
maybe 10, with the peers instead of vice versa.
50:31
Now, what does that mean? Well, there's two big decisions relating to schooling.
50:37
A lot of our people in our community, they homeschool their children.
50:41
And, of course, that gives them a lot of quality time with the children.
50:45
If you don't homeschool the children, you ought to really be involved in the education.
50:51
Biblically, and the Catholic Church has always taught that the parents are the primary educators.
50:56
And I would discourage extracurricular activities except ones that you could do with them.
51:05
Like my nephew and niece, they're in Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.
51:08
And my sister and brother-in-law go with them and do all kinds of campouts and
51:14
all this stuff. Well, that's great. That's good.
51:17
Or if you're on a team, your son's on a team, but you go with them to the game
51:22
and you're involved in it.
51:24
Or you may be a coach or something. Hey, that's great, but be involved.
51:30
The extracurricular activities should promote fathers and mothers being with their children.
51:38
And then, of course, you have to really cut down on the electronic ghetto that kids get in.
51:44
You have to really just cut down on that. Otherwise, they're discipled by the
51:48
people on TV rather than by you.
51:51
Come on, you have to face the facts. That's happening over and over again.
51:54
I would say the main scripture here is Malachi 3.24.
51:59
God's word is that his plan is to turn the hearts of fathers to their children
52:04
and the hearts of children to their fathers.
52:07
He says to get the parents and the children relating to each other. That's the goal.
52:13
Peers should be in a very secondary place in influencing your children.
52:21
That means major decisions as far as television, as far as media.
52:27
And it means major decisions as far as schooling and extracurricular activities.
52:33
Now, when you share all this, people say, I just wanted the kid to go to church.
52:37
I thought you would just tell me to, you know, tell them something that would
52:40
kind of make them keep going, even if they didn't feel like it.
52:43
I thought there was a little trick or I could just kind of, you know,
52:48
say a prayer and hope they show up. or make a rule that as long as you're in
52:53
my house, you go to church.
52:55
And you're telling me, wait a minute, I got to change the schooling and change
52:59
the media and we got to pray together. I got to pray with my spouse.
53:02
And the father's got to take responsibility and the father doesn't.
53:06
The mother needs to really pray for the father and ask that God will work through
53:10
her to open the father up to the Lord and say, wait a minute,
53:14
this is not a simple matter, is it?
53:16
No, it isn't. Not at all. But unless you just face what's involved here, it's not going to work.
53:24
I'm going to conclude with Luke 14 and 28.
53:28
It talks about a building, building a tower.
53:32
And it says that you have to sit down and see if you've got what it takes to complete the project.
53:39
Otherwise, you'll have a half-built house.
53:42
If you're going to disciple your child, if you're going to have that family
53:47
reunion in heaven, you're going to have to sit down and say,
53:52
am I willing to do what's necessary to complete the job?
53:56
Now, there's some major decisions.
54:00
Otherwise, you're going to have some half-built houses, and that's what we see all around.
54:04
Children have got some exposure to the faith, but have never really developed
54:09
and been built to what God wants them to be. We're running out of time here. Let's pray, okay?
54:14
Father, we just pray for every parent to just obey you. We pray for every member
54:18
of a family to just obey you.
54:20
We ask, Lord, that we do anything. We would go to Egypt in the middle of the
54:24
night like Joseph did if we'd have to, just so we can be used by you to lead
54:30
every family member to eternal life with you.
54:35
In Jesus' name, amen.
54:38
Music.
54:47
Noble gift of our sexuality is not something to be demeaned.
54:51
Regrettably, pornography, fornication, and adultery are rampant today.
54:57
If we want to be influential as Catholic and moral leaders in the domestic church
55:02
of our home, we must be chaste.
55:05
We can't allow ourselves to be degraded, to lose our crucial power of spiritual
55:12
leadership due to this sin.
55:14
Our family needs us moral heroes.
55:18
We cannot submit to the temptation of unchastity.
55:23
And if we should fall, we need to immediately repent, go to confession,
55:28
and get back in the fight to be champions of chastity.
55:32
We can't give an inch to these dark temptations.
55:36
Pornography is always wrong and disordered.
55:40
It unfailingly leaves its wound, doing grave harm to the user,
55:45
his or her family, as well as the so-called performers who make pornography,
55:50
who are dehumanized and used as objects of another's pleasure.
55:55
With pornography, one takes pleasure
55:58
at the expense of the degradation of others as well as one's self.
56:03
Listen, quote, love takes no pleasure in other people's sins,
56:08
but delights in the truth. 1 Corinthians 13.6.
56:12
You see, we are temples of the Holy Spirit, as are those involved in making pornography.
56:18
Quote, your body, you know, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 6.19.
56:25
We must win this fight at all costs. The stakes are too high.
56:30
You and I are too good for unchastity.
56:33
Mercifully, our Lord Jesus is there to do most of the fighting for us if we only turn to Him.
56:39
Jesus is your champion.
56:42
I'm Jim Littleton, forming FaithfulFamilies.com.