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The Journey of the Sober Herbalist: Transformative Healing Through Nature · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:15
  I'm
• 0:16
  Anthony
• 0:16
  Wright
• 0:17
  and
• 0:17
  I
• 0:18
  am
• 0:18
  your
• 0:18
  co
• 0:18
  host
• 0:19
  today
• 0:19
  on
• 0:19
  the
• 0:20
  Living
• 0:20
  Conversation
• 0:21
  with
• 0:22
  Adam
• 0:22
  Dietz.
• 0:23
  And
• 0:23
  our
• 0:23
  guest
• 0:24
  today
• 0:25
  is
• 0:26
  Drea,
• 0:27
  the
• 0:27
  sober
• 0:28
  herbalist.
• 0:29
  Welcome,
• 0:29
  Drea.
• 0:30
  Thank
• 0:31
  you.
• 0:31
  Welcome.
• 0:33
  So
• 0:34
  we
• 0:34
  were
• 0:35
  talking
• 0:35
  before
• 0:36
  we
• 0:37
  started
• 0:37
  the.
• 0:38
  The
• 0:38
  recording
• 0:39
  here,
• 0:39
  and
• 0:39
  you've
• 0:40
  been
• 0:40
  talking
• 0:40
  a
• 0:40
  bit
• 0:41
  about
• 0:43
  what
• 0:43
  your
• 0:44
  life
• 0:44
  experience
• 0:44
  has
• 0:45
  been,
• 0:46
  but
• 0:47
  how
• 0:48
  did
• 0:48
  you
• 0:48
  come
• 0:48
  to
• 0:48
  be
• 0:49
  a
• 0:49
  sober
• 0:49
  herbalist?
• 0:53
  Yeah,
• 0:53
  thanks
• 0:54
  for
• 0:54
  asking
• 0:54
  that
• 0:54
  question.
• 0:55
  Well,
• 0:55
  there's
• 0:56
  a
• 0:56
  couple
• 0:56
  different,
• 0:56
  you
• 0:57
  know,
• 0:57
  there's
• 0:57
  a
• 0:57
  couple
• 0:58
  different
• 0:58
  things
• 0:58
  that
• 0:59
  happened.
• 0:59
  First,
• 0:59
  I
• 1:00
  got
• 1:00
  sober.
• 1:01
  Right.
• 1:02
  And
• 1:02
  then
• 1:02
  when
• 1:02
  I
• 1:02
  got
• 1:03
  sober
• 1:03
  a
• 1:03
  couple
• 1:03
  years
• 1:04
  after,
• 1:04
  I,
• 1:05
  you
• 1:05
  know,
• 1:05
  I
• 1:05
  was
• 1:05
  in
• 1:05
  active
• 1:06
  recovery.
• 1:06
  And
• 1:06
  after
• 1:07
  a
• 1:07
  couple
• 1:07
  of
• 1:07
  years,
• 1:08
  I
• 1:09
  ended
• 1:09
  up
• 1:09
  just.
• 1:09
  Somehow
• 1:10
  I
• 1:10
  ended
• 1:10
  up
• 1:11
  getting
• 1:11
  bit
• 1:11
  by
• 1:11
  a
• 1:11
  tick,
• 1:12
  which,
• 1:12
  where
• 1:12
  I
• 1:12
  lived
• 1:13
  in
• 1:13
  Northern
• 1:13
  California
• 1:14
  at
• 1:14
  the
• 1:14
  time,
• 1:15
  that
• 1:15
  was
• 1:15
  kind
• 1:16
  of
• 1:16
  a
• 1:16
  part
• 1:16
  of
• 1:16
  living
• 1:17
  out
• 1:17
  in
• 1:17
  the
• 1:17
  woods.
• 1:19
  And
• 1:19
  I
• 1:19
  got
• 1:19
  bit
• 1:19
  by
• 1:19
  a
• 1:20
  tick,
• 1:20
  which
• 1:20
  I'd
• 1:20
  actually
• 1:21
  been
• 1:21
  bit
• 1:21
  many
• 1:21
  times.
• 1:22
  So
• 1:22
  I'm
• 1:22
  not
• 1:22
  actually
• 1:23
  sure
• 1:23
  when
• 1:23
  it
• 1:23
  happened.
• 1:24
  Right.
• 1:25
  I
• 1:25
  got
• 1:25
  bit
• 1:25
  by
• 1:25
  a
• 1:26
  tick
• 1:26
  and
• 1:26
  I
• 1:26
  got
• 1:27
  Lyme
• 1:27
  disease.
• 1:28
  And
• 1:29
  I
• 1:29
  was
• 1:30
  like,
• 1:31
  you
• 1:31
  know,
• 1:31
  mortally
• 1:32
  wounded.
• 1:34
  You
• 1:34
  know,
• 1:34
  I
• 1:35
  had
• 1:35
  facial
• 1:36
  paralysis.
• 1:37
  I
• 1:37
  couldn't
• 1:38
  talk.
• 1:38
  I
• 1:38
  mean,
• 1:38
  I
• 1:39
  got
• 1:39
  really,
• 1:39
  really,
• 1:40
  really
• 1:40
  sick.
• 1:41
  And
• 1:42
  I
• 1:42
  was
• 1:42
  only
• 1:42
  a
• 1:43
  couple
• 1:43
  years
• 1:43
  sober.
• 1:45
  And
• 1:47
  I,
• 1:48
  you
• 1:48
  know,
• 1:48
  I
• 1:48
  went
• 1:48
  to
• 1:49
  doctors
• 1:49
  because
• 1:49
  what
• 1:50
  was
• 1:50
  happening
• 1:50
  to
• 1:50
  me
• 1:51
  was,
• 1:51
  like,
• 1:51
  really
• 1:52
  pretty
• 1:53
  profound.
• 1:54
  Yeah,
• 1:54
  sounds
• 1:54
  like
• 1:55
  it.
• 1:55
  Yeah.
• 1:55
  And
• 1:56
  so
• 1:56
  I
• 1:56
  went
• 1:56
  like,
• 1:57
  what
• 1:57
  a
• 1:57
  normal
• 1:57
  person
• 1:57
  would
• 1:58
  do,
• 1:58
  go
• 1:58
  to
• 1:58
  a
• 1:58
  doctor
• 1:59
  and
• 1:59
  say,
• 1:59
  you
• 1:59
  know,
• 2:00
  what
• 2:00
  happened
• 2:00
  here?
• 2:00
  What's
• 2:01
  going
• 2:01
  on?
• 2:01
  I.
• 2:02
  I
• 2:02
  can't
• 2:02
  see
• 2:02
  out
• 2:02
  of
• 2:03
  one
• 2:03
  of
• 2:03
  my
• 2:03
  eyes.
• 2:03
  I
• 2:04
  can
• 2:04
  barely
• 2:04
  talk.
• 2:05
  I
• 2:05
  had
• 2:05
  a
• 2:05
  list.
• 2:06
  I
• 2:07
  had
• 2:07
  facial
• 2:07
  paralysis.
• 2:09
  I
• 2:09
  had
• 2:10
  all
• 2:10
  these
• 2:11
  physical.
• 2:11
  They
• 2:11
  were.
• 2:12
  A
• 2:12
  lot
• 2:12
  of
• 2:12
  them
• 2:12
  were
• 2:12
  neuromuscular
• 2:13
  and.
• 2:14
  And
• 2:15
  cardiovasc
• 2:16
  and
• 2:16
  a
• 2:16
  lot
• 2:17
  of
• 2:17
  pain.
• 2:17
  And
• 2:18
  I
• 2:18
  was
• 2:18
  like,
• 2:18
  what
• 2:19
  the
• 2:19
  heck's
• 2:19
  going
• 2:19
  on?
• 2:19
  This.
• 2:20
  It
• 2:20
  was
• 2:20
  like,
• 2:20
  really
• 2:21
  weird.
• 2:21
  And
• 2:21
  so
• 2:22
  I
• 2:22
  got
• 2:22
  batted
• 2:23
  around,
• 2:23
  doctor
• 2:24
  to
• 2:24
  doctor,
• 2:26
  being,
• 2:26
  you
• 2:27
  know,
• 2:27
  they
• 2:27
  thought
• 2:28
  it
• 2:28
  was
• 2:28
  this,
• 2:28
  they
• 2:29
  thought
• 2:29
  it
• 2:29
  was
• 2:29
  that,
• 2:29
  they
• 2:30
  thought
• 2:30
  it
• 2:30
  was
• 2:30
  this,
• 2:30
  they
• 2:31
  thought
• 2:31
  it
• 2:31
  was
• 2:31
  that.
• 2:32
  And
• 2:32
  so
• 2:32
  after
• 2:33
  about
• 2:33
  six
• 2:33
  months
• 2:34
  of
• 2:34
  this,
• 2:34
  I
• 2:34
  was
• 2:35
  like,
• 2:35
  pretty
• 2:35
  much
• 2:35
  at
• 2:36
  death's
• 2:36
  door.
• 2:38
  And
• 2:38
  they
• 2:38
  basically
• 2:39
  just
• 2:39
  said,
• 2:39
  we
• 2:40
  can't
• 2:40
  find
• 2:41
  out
• 2:41
  what's
• 2:41
  wrong
• 2:42
  with
• 2:42
  you.
• 2:44
  It
• 2:44
  must
• 2:44
  be
• 2:44
  in
• 2:45
  your
• 2:45
  head.
• 2:45
  Here's
• 2:46
  some
• 2:46
  antidepressants.
• 2:47
  Go
• 2:47
  away.
• 2:50
  Yep.
• 2:51
  And
• 2:51
  you
• 2:51
  stayed
• 2:52
  with
• 2:52
  us.
• 2:53
  Yeah.
• 2:53
  And
• 2:54
  so
• 2:54
  there
• 2:54
  I
• 2:54
  was,
• 2:55
  you
• 2:55
  know,
• 2:56
  and
• 2:56
  my
• 2:56
  husband,
• 2:57
  who
• 2:57
  I'm
• 2:57
  married
• 2:58
  to
• 2:58
  now,
• 2:58
  we
• 2:58
  were
• 2:59
  together
• 2:59
  then.
• 2:59
  He,
• 3:00
  you
• 3:00
  know,
• 3:00
  he
• 3:01
  knew.
• 3:01
  He
• 3:01
  noticed
• 3:02
  in
• 3:02
  town
• 3:02
  that
• 3:02
  there
• 3:02
  was
• 3:03
  this
• 3:03
  group
• 3:03
  of
• 3:04
  healers
• 3:05
  called
• 3:05
  Ayurvedic
• 3:06
  practitioners.
• 3:07
  And
• 3:07
  Ayurveda
• 3:08
  is
• 3:08
  traditional
• 3:08
  healing
• 3:10
  from
• 3:10
  India.
• 3:10
  And
• 3:10
  in
• 3:11
  my
• 3:11
  little
• 3:11
  town
• 3:11
  in
• 3:11
  Northern
• 3:12
  California,
• 3:12
  there
• 3:13
  Was
• 3:13
  a
• 3:13
  collective
• 3:14
  of
• 3:15
  ayurvedic
• 3:15
  practitioners
• 3:16
  that
• 3:16
  were
• 3:16
  running
• 3:17
  a
• 3:17
  by
• 3:17
  donation
• 3:18
  clinic.
• 3:19
  And
• 3:19
  I
• 3:20
  was
• 3:20
  absolutely
• 3:20
  broke
• 3:21
  at
• 3:21
  this
• 3:21
  time.
• 3:22
  I
• 3:22
  actually
• 3:22
  ended
• 3:22
  up
• 3:23
  having
• 3:23
  to
• 3:23
  go
• 3:23
  to
• 3:23
  my
• 3:23
  father
• 3:24
  to
• 3:24
  help
• 3:24
  me
• 3:24
  financially
• 3:25
  Because
• 3:25
  I
• 3:25
  had
• 3:26
  been
• 3:26
  living
• 3:26
  on
• 3:26
  credit
• 3:27
  cards
• 3:27
  While
• 3:27
  I
• 3:27
  was
• 3:27
  trying
• 3:28
  to
• 3:28
  find
• 3:28
  out
• 3:28
  what
• 3:28
  was
• 3:29
  the
• 3:29
  matter
• 3:29
  with
• 3:29
  me
• 3:30
  and
• 3:30
  could
• 3:31
  work.
• 3:31
  I
• 3:31
  was
• 3:31
  on
• 3:32
  disability.
• 3:32
  I
• 3:33
  mean,
• 3:33
  I
• 3:33
  went
• 3:34
  through
• 3:34
  the
• 3:34
  true.
• 3:34
  The
• 3:35
  full
• 3:35
  ringer,
• 3:36
  right?
• 3:37
  And
• 3:37
  I
• 3:38
  went
• 3:38
  to
• 3:38
  this
• 3:38
  small
• 3:39
  collective
• 3:39
  of
• 3:40
  ayurvedic
• 3:41
  healers
• 3:41
  who
• 3:43
  took
• 3:43
  my
• 3:44
  pulse
• 3:45
  and
• 3:45
  looked
• 3:45
  at
• 3:46
  my
• 3:46
  tongue
• 3:46
  and
• 3:47
  listened
• 3:47
  to
• 3:47
  me.
• 3:48
  And
• 3:49
  they
• 3:49
  said,
• 3:49
  we
• 3:50
  can't
• 3:50
  diagnose
• 3:51
  you
• 3:51
  legally,
• 3:52
  we
• 3:52
  can't
• 3:52
  treat
• 3:52
  you
• 3:53
  legally,
• 3:53
  but
• 3:54
  we
• 3:54
  can
• 3:54
  offer
• 3:54
  you
• 3:55
  these.
• 3:55
  These
• 3:56
  remedies
• 3:56
  and
• 3:56
  these
• 3:58
  suggestions.
• 3:59
  And
• 3:59
  they
• 3:59
  wrote
• 4:00
  out
• 4:00
  a
• 4:00
  beautiful
• 4:01
  page
• 4:01
  of
• 4:02
  things
• 4:02
  that
• 4:03
  I
• 4:03
  could
• 4:03
  do.
• 4:04
  And
• 4:04
  they
• 4:05
  treated
• 4:05
  me
• 4:05
  with
• 4:05
  respect,
• 4:06
  and
• 4:06
  they
• 4:06
  listened
• 4:07
  to
• 4:07
  me
• 4:07
  for
• 4:07
  a
• 4:07
  full
• 4:07
  hour.
• 4:08
  And
• 4:08
  they
• 4:08
  surrounded
• 4:09
  me
• 4:09
  with
• 4:09
  a
• 4:09
  lot
• 4:09
  of
• 4:10
  attention
• 4:10
  and
• 4:10
  love
• 4:11
  and
• 4:11
  care.
• 4:12
  And
• 4:12
  that
• 4:12
  was
• 4:12
  the
• 4:12
  turning.
• 4:13
  The
• 4:13
  turning
• 4:13
  point
• 4:14
  of
• 4:14
  point
• 4:14
  of
• 4:15
  that
• 4:16
  illness.
• 4:17
  And
• 4:17
  subsequently,
• 4:19
  I
• 4:19
  continued
• 4:20
  on
• 4:20
  with
• 4:21
  being
• 4:21
  able
• 4:21
  to
• 4:21
  start
• 4:22
  taking
• 4:22
  care
• 4:22
  of
• 4:23
  myself
• 4:23
  and
• 4:23
  getting
• 4:23
  out
• 4:24
  of
• 4:24
  pain
• 4:24
  and
• 4:25
  beginning
• 4:25
  to
• 4:26
  engage
• 4:26
  with
• 4:26
  what
• 4:27
  kind
• 4:27
  of
• 4:27
  care
• 4:28
  was
• 4:28
  going
• 4:28
  to
• 4:28
  be
• 4:29
  needed
• 4:29
  for
• 4:29
  something
• 4:29
  outside
• 4:30
  of
• 4:30
  an
• 4:30
  established,
• 4:31
  you
• 4:32
  know,
• 4:32
  medicine
• 4:33
  protocols
• 4:33
  and
• 4:34
  all
• 4:34
  that.
• 4:35
  I
• 4:35
  eventually,
• 4:36
  with
• 4:36
  my
• 4:36
  luck,
• 4:37
  ended
• 4:38
  up
• 4:38
  at
• 4:38
  a
• 4:38
  doctor
• 4:39
  who
• 4:39
  was
• 4:39
  an
• 4:40
  herbalist.
• 4:40
  And
• 4:41
  she
• 4:41
  just
• 4:41
  happened
• 4:41
  to
• 4:41
  be
• 4:42
  one
• 4:42
  of
• 4:42
  those
• 4:42
  people
• 4:43
  on
• 4:43
  the
• 4:43
  outside
• 4:44
  who
• 4:45
  had
• 4:45
  an
• 4:45
  established
• 4:46
  practice.
• 4:47
  She
• 4:47
  still
• 4:47
  does.
• 4:48
  But
• 4:48
  she
• 4:48
  was
• 4:49
  also
• 4:49
  an
• 4:49
  integrative
• 4:50
  practitioner
• 4:51
  in
• 4:51
  the
• 4:51
  sense
• 4:52
  that
• 4:52
  she
• 4:52
  knew
• 4:53
  about
• 4:53
  other
• 4:54
  modalities,
• 4:55
  Practiced
• 4:55
  herbalism.
• 4:56
  As
• 4:56
  a
• 4:57
  doctor,
• 4:57
  you
• 4:57
  can
• 4:57
  do
• 4:57
  practice.
• 5:01
  She
• 5:01
  gave
• 5:01
  me
• 5:01
  herbs.
• 5:02
  I
• 5:02
  went
• 5:03
  and
• 5:03
  saw
• 5:03
  ayurvedic
• 5:04
  people.
• 5:05
  I
• 5:05
  did
• 5:05
  yoga,
• 5:06
  breathing.
• 5:06
  I
• 5:06
  mean,
• 5:07
  I
• 5:07
  just
• 5:07
  did
• 5:07
  a
• 5:07
  whole.
• 5:08
  I
• 5:08
  did
• 5:08
  meditation.
• 5:08
  I
• 5:09
  mean,
• 5:09
  I
• 5:09
  did
• 5:09
  every
• 5:11
  thing
• 5:11
  you
• 5:11
  could
• 5:12
  possibly
• 5:12
  imagine.
• 5:13
  Pretty
• 5:13
  much,
• 5:14
  yes.
• 5:14
  And
• 5:14
  my.
• 5:15
  Luckily
• 5:15
  my
• 5:15
  father
• 5:16
  was
• 5:16
  helping
• 5:16
  me
• 5:17
  because
• 5:17
  I
• 5:17
  was
• 5:17
  like,
• 5:17
  look,
• 5:17
  I'm
• 5:18
  either
• 5:18
  gonna
• 5:18
  die
• 5:18
  or
• 5:18
  you're
• 5:18
  gonna
• 5:19
  help
• 5:19
  me
• 5:19
  out.
• 5:19
  He
• 5:19
  had
• 5:20
  funds,
• 5:20
  he
• 5:20
  helped
• 5:21
  me
• 5:21
  out.
• 5:21
  And
• 5:22
  that,
• 5:22
  you
• 5:22
  know,
• 5:22
  and
• 5:22
  that's
• 5:22
  how
• 5:23
  it
• 5:23
  all
• 5:23
  started.
• 5:24
  And
• 5:25
  I
• 5:25
  got
• 5:26
  sober,
• 5:26
  but
• 5:27
  that's
• 5:27
  what
• 5:27
  happened
• 5:28
  to
• 5:28
  me.
• 5:28
  And
• 5:28
  then
• 5:28
  I
• 5:29
  became
• 5:29
  a
• 5:29
  sober
• 5:29
  herbalist
• 5:30
  Because
• 5:30
  I
• 5:30
  went
• 5:31
  to
• 5:31
  her
• 5:32
  formally
• 5:32
  because
• 5:32
  it
• 5:32
  was
• 5:33
  expensive
• 5:34
  buying
• 5:35
  medicine
• 5:35
  from
• 5:36
  my
• 5:36
  doctor.
• 5:37
  And
• 5:37
  at
• 5:37
  the
• 5:37
  time,
• 5:38
  my
• 5:38
  doctor
• 5:39
  never
• 5:39
  ever
• 5:40
  said
• 5:40
  anything
• 5:41
  about
• 5:42
  my.
• 5:42
  The
• 5:42
  medicine
• 5:43
  that
• 5:43
  she
• 5:43
  was
• 5:43
  giving
• 5:44
  me.
• 5:44
  It
• 5:44
  was
• 5:44
  like
• 5:44
  in
• 5:45
  the
• 5:45
  form
• 5:45
  of
• 5:45
  supplements
• 5:46
  and
• 5:46
  liquid
• 5:47
  extracts.
• 5:48
  And
• 5:48
  she
• 5:49
  said
• 5:49
  to
• 5:49
  me,
• 5:49
  I
• 5:49
  know
• 5:49
  you're
• 5:50
  sober.
• 5:50
  I
• 5:50
  have
• 5:50
  non
• 5:51
  alcoholic
• 5:51
  medicine.
• 5:52
  And
• 5:52
  I
• 5:52
  didn't
• 5:52
  even
• 5:52
  know,
• 5:53
  like
• 5:53
  when
• 5:53
  she
• 5:54
  posed
• 5:54
  that
• 5:55
  to
• 5:55
  me,
• 5:55
  that
• 5:55
  it
• 5:55
  was
• 5:55
  a
• 5:56
  thing.
• 5:56
  But
• 5:56
  then
• 5:58
  a
• 5:58
  couple
• 5:58
  years
• 5:58
  later,
• 5:58
  after
• 5:59
  I
• 5:59
  was
• 5:59
  better
• 5:59
  and
• 6:00
  I
• 6:00
  decided
• 6:00
  to
• 6:00
  go
• 6:00
  to
• 6:01
  herb
• 6:01
  school,
• 6:01
  Formally.
• 6:02
  Which
• 6:02
  I
• 6:02
  happen
• 6:03
  to
• 6:03
  live
• 6:03
  down
• 6:03
  the
• 6:03
  street
• 6:04
  from,
• 6:04
  like,
• 6:05
  the
• 6:05
  oldest
• 6:06
  herb
• 6:06
  school
• 6:06
  in
• 6:07
  the
• 6:07
  country.
• 6:07
  Oh,
• 6:08
  really?
• 6:09
  Yeah,
• 6:09
  literally
• 6:10
  down
• 6:10
  the
• 6:11
  street
• 6:11
  from
• 6:11
  the
• 6:11
  oldest
• 6:12
  herb
• 6:12
  school
• 6:12
  in
• 6:12
  the
• 6:12
  country
• 6:13
  that
• 6:13
  was
• 6:13
  started
• 6:14
  by
• 6:14
  the
• 6:14
  most
• 6:14
  famous
• 6:15
  herbalist
• 6:16
  of
• 6:16
  all,
• 6:16
  Rosemary
• 6:16
  Gladstar.
• 6:18
  So
• 6:19
  I
• 6:19
  went
• 6:19
  to
• 6:19
  that
• 6:19
  school,
• 6:20
  and
• 6:21
  the
• 6:21
  first
• 6:21
  thing
• 6:21
  that
• 6:22
  happened
• 6:23
  was
• 6:23
  that
• 6:24
  I
• 6:24
  was
• 6:24
  introduced
• 6:25
  to
• 6:26
  alcoholic
• 6:27
  medicine,
• 6:28
  which
• 6:28
  is
• 6:29
  tinctures.
• 6:30
  Which
• 6:30
  are
• 6:30
  tinctures.
• 6:32
  So
• 6:32
  that's.
• 6:32
  The
• 6:33
  tincture
• 6:33
  means
• 6:34
  it's
• 6:34
  the.
• 6:34
  The
• 6:35
  medium
• 6:36
  in
• 6:36
  which
• 6:36
  the
• 6:37
  herbal
• 6:38
  essences
• 6:38
  are
• 6:39
  dissolved
• 6:40
  and
• 6:40
  carried.
• 6:41
  Yes.
• 6:41
  Yeah.
• 6:42
  And
• 6:42
  it's
• 6:42
  ethanol.
• 6:43
  Yes,
• 6:44
  Ethanol,
• 6:44
  Alcohol.
• 6:45
  Okay.
• 6:46
  Yeah.
• 6:47
  You
• 6:48
  don't
• 6:48
  necessarily
• 6:48
  want
• 6:49
  to
• 6:49
  get
• 6:49
  reinvolved
• 6:49
  into
• 6:50
  that.
• 6:50
  Sounds
• 6:50
  like.
• 6:51
  Well,
• 6:52
  I
• 6:52
  took
• 6:52
  them.
• 6:53
  At
• 6:53
  first
• 6:53
  it
• 6:54
  was
• 6:54
  just
• 6:54
  drop
• 6:55
  doses,
• 6:56
  but
• 6:56
  even.
• 6:57
  Well,
• 6:58
  yeah,
• 6:58
  and
• 6:58
  up
• 6:58
  to
• 6:58
  that
• 6:59
  point,
• 6:59
  I'm
• 6:59
  talking
• 7:00
  like
• 7:00
  nine
• 7:00
  years,
• 7:01
  I
• 7:01
  had
• 7:02
  not.
• 7:02
  And
• 7:02
  I
• 7:02
  could
• 7:03
  say
• 7:03
  this
• 7:03
  with
• 7:03
  full
• 7:04
  conviction
• 7:04
  at
• 7:04
  that
• 7:05
  point,
• 7:06
  that
• 7:06
  for
• 7:06
  nine
• 7:07
  whole
• 7:07
  years
• 7:07
  I
• 7:08
  had
• 7:08
  never
• 7:08
  even
• 7:08
  had
• 7:09
  a
• 7:09
  drop
• 7:09
  of
• 7:10
  alcohol
• 7:10
  in
• 7:10
  my
• 7:11
  body.
• 7:11
  I
• 7:11
  had
• 7:11
  no
• 7:12
  mouthwash.
• 7:13
  I
• 7:13
  mean,
• 7:15
  I
• 7:15
  was
• 7:15
  very
• 7:16
  careful
• 7:16
  because,
• 7:17
  you
• 7:17
  know,
• 7:17
  I
• 7:17
  didn't
• 7:18
  want
• 7:18
  to
• 7:18
  relapse
• 7:19
  and
• 7:19
  I
• 7:19
  didn't
• 7:20
  want
• 7:20
  to
• 7:20
  go
• 7:20
  backwards.
• 7:21
  And
• 7:21
  so,
• 7:22
  yeah,
• 7:22
  there
• 7:22
  I
• 7:22
  was
• 7:23
  in
• 7:23
  an
• 7:23
  herb
• 7:24
  school
• 7:24
  in
• 7:24
  what
• 7:25
  I
• 7:25
  thought
• 7:25
  was
• 7:25
  a
• 7:25
  healing
• 7:26
  modality
• 7:27
  and
• 7:27
  what
• 7:27
  I
• 7:27
  thought
• 7:27
  was
• 7:28
  a
• 7:28
  safe
• 7:28
  place.
• 7:28
  Up
• 7:29
  until
• 7:29
  then,
• 7:29
  my
• 7:30
  experiences
• 7:31
  in
• 7:31
  the
• 7:31
  wellness
• 7:31
  world,
• 7:32
  becoming
• 7:33
  an
• 7:33
  ayurvedic
• 7:33
  practitioner,
• 7:34
  becoming
• 7:35
  a
• 7:35
  yoga
• 7:36
  teacher,
• 7:37
  you
• 7:37
  know,
• 7:38
  studying
• 7:38
  with
• 7:39
  swamis,
• 7:41
  meditate.
• 7:41
  I
• 7:42
  had
• 7:42
  never
• 7:42
  encountered
• 7:43
  alcohol
• 7:44
  all
• 7:44
  the
• 7:44
  way
• 7:44
  through
• 7:44
  that
• 7:45
  entire
• 7:46
  seven
• 7:46
  years
• 7:46
  of
• 7:47
  my
• 7:48
  experiencing
• 7:49
  deep
• 7:50
  dive,
• 7:50
  you
• 7:50
  know,
• 7:51
  certifications,
• 7:52
  all
• 7:52
  the
• 7:52
  work
• 7:52
  I
• 7:53
  did.
• 7:53
  It
• 7:53
  was
• 7:54
  that
• 7:55
  time
• 7:55
  at
• 7:55
  which
• 7:55
  I
• 7:56
  go
• 7:56
  to
• 7:56
  study
• 7:56
  formal
• 7:57
  herbalism.
• 7:57
  And
• 7:58
  that
• 7:58
  I'm
• 7:58
  suddenly
• 7:59
  bombarded
• 7:59
  with
• 8:00
  this
• 8:00
  truth
• 8:01
  that
• 8:01
  I
• 8:01
  absolutely
• 8:02
  did
• 8:02
  not
• 8:02
  expect.
• 8:06
  And
• 8:06
  that's
• 8:06
  what
• 8:06
  happened
• 8:07
  was
• 8:07
  that
• 8:07
  I
• 8:07
  started
• 8:07
  taking
• 8:08
  drop
• 8:08
  doses.
• 8:09
  Because
• 8:09
  that's
• 8:09
  what
• 8:09
  we
• 8:10
  do
• 8:10
  in
• 8:10
  school
• 8:10
  is
• 8:11
  they.
• 8:11
  We
• 8:11
  sit
• 8:11
  and
• 8:11
  we
• 8:12
  talk
• 8:12
  about
• 8:12
  herbs
• 8:12
  and
• 8:13
  you
• 8:13
  get
• 8:13
  a
• 8:13
  drop
• 8:13
  of
• 8:14
  it
• 8:15
  in
• 8:15
  your
• 8:15
  mouth
• 8:16
  and
• 8:16
  you
• 8:16
  experience
• 8:17
  it
• 8:17
  and
• 8:17
  you
• 8:17
  taste
• 8:18
  it.
• 8:18
  And
• 8:18
  all
• 8:18
  of
• 8:18
  a
• 8:19
  sudden
• 8:19
  I
• 8:19
  was
• 8:19
  like,
• 8:20
  this
• 8:20
  is
• 8:20
  not.
• 8:21
  This
• 8:21
  isn't
• 8:21
  going
• 8:22
  to
• 8:22
  work
• 8:22
  for
• 8:22
  me.
• 8:22
  And
• 8:22
  so
• 8:22
  I
• 8:22
  was
• 8:23
  going
• 8:23
  to
• 8:23
  quit.
• 8:23
  Right,
• 8:24
  Right.
• 8:24
  I
• 8:25
  was
• 8:25
  going
• 8:25
  to
• 8:25
  quit
• 8:26
  and
• 8:26
  I
• 8:27
  was
• 8:27
  like,
• 8:27
  I
• 8:27
  can't
• 8:27
  do
• 8:28
  this.
• 8:28
  I
• 8:28
  think
• 8:28
  I'm
• 8:28
  going
• 8:28
  to
• 8:29
  relapse.
• 8:29
  And
• 8:29
  I.
• 8:30
  I
• 8:31
  walked
• 8:31
  into
• 8:31
  this
• 8:31
  gorgeous
• 8:32
  old
• 8:32
  garden
• 8:33
  at
• 8:33
  this
• 8:33
  school,
• 8:33
  and
• 8:34
  I
• 8:34
  was
• 8:34
  kind
• 8:34
  of
• 8:35
  saying
• 8:35
  goodbye
• 8:36
  and
• 8:36
  I
• 8:36
  was
• 8:36
  going
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  basically
• 8:37
  leave.
• 8:38
  I
• 8:38
  was
• 8:38
  going
• 8:38
  to
• 8:38
  go
• 8:39
  to
• 8:39
  the
• 8:39
  office
• 8:39
  and
• 8:39
  say,
• 8:40
  you
• 8:40
  know
• 8:40
  what?
• 8:40
  I
• 8:40
  don't
• 8:41
  think
• 8:41
  I
• 8:41
  can
• 8:41
  do
• 8:41
  this.
• 8:42
  There's
• 8:42
  too
• 8:42
  much
• 8:42
  alcohol.
• 8:43
  I
• 8:43
  didn't
• 8:43
  expect
• 8:44
  this.
• 8:44
  I
• 8:44
  thought
• 8:44
  I
• 8:44
  was
• 8:45
  going
• 8:45
  to
• 8:45
  be
• 8:45
  drinking
• 8:46
  a
• 8:46
  bunch
• 8:46
  of
• 8:46
  menopausal
• 8:49
  that's
• 8:49
  what
• 8:49
  I
• 8:50
  thought
• 8:50
  that
• 8:50
  herb
• 8:50
  school
• 8:51
  was
• 8:51
  gonna
• 8:51
  be
• 8:52
  something
• 8:53
  totally
• 8:53
  mellow.
• 8:54
  And
• 8:54
  it
• 8:54
  ends
• 8:55
  up
• 8:55
  being
• 8:55
  like
• 8:55
  this
• 8:56
  rowdy
• 8:57
  group
• 8:57
  of
• 8:57
  millennials
• 8:58
  on
• 8:58
  Tinder
• 8:59
  talking
• 9:00
  about
• 9:00
  hangover
• 9:00
  recipes
• 9:01
  and
• 9:01
  passing
• 9:02
  around
• 9:02
  alcohol.
• 9:03
  I
• 9:03
  was
• 9:04
  like,
• 9:04
  oh,
• 9:04
  my
• 9:04
  God.
• 9:06
  So
• 9:06
  I
• 9:06
  walk
• 9:07
  into
• 9:07
  this
• 9:07
  garden,
• 9:08
  and
• 9:08
  I'm,
• 9:08
  like,
• 9:09
  gonna
• 9:09
  say
• 9:09
  goodbye.
• 9:10
  And
• 9:11
  I
• 9:11
  went
• 9:11
  in
• 9:11
  there,
• 9:12
  and
• 9:12
  I
• 9:12
  was
• 9:12
  so
• 9:12
  sad
• 9:13
  and
• 9:13
  heavy
• 9:13
  in
• 9:13
  my
• 9:13
  heart,
• 9:14
  but
• 9:14
  I
• 9:14
  was
• 9:14
  like,
• 9:14
  I
• 9:14
  know
• 9:15
  what
• 9:15
  I
• 9:15
  need
• 9:15
  to
• 9:15
  do.
• 9:15
  I
• 9:16
  know
• 9:16
  what's
• 9:16
  the
• 9:16
  most
• 9:16
  important
• 9:17
  thing,
• 9:18
  and
• 9:18
  I'll.
• 9:18
  And
• 9:18
  I'll
• 9:19
  be
• 9:19
  fine.
• 9:19
  And
• 9:19
  I
• 9:20
  trust
• 9:20
  that
• 9:20
  I'm
• 9:21
  not
• 9:21
  supposed
• 9:21
  to
• 9:21
  be
• 9:21
  here.
• 9:22
  And
• 9:22
  what
• 9:23
  happened
• 9:23
  was
• 9:23
  this
• 9:24
  garden
• 9:24
  just
• 9:24
  kind
• 9:25
  of
• 9:25
  surrounded
• 9:25
  me,
• 9:26
  and
• 9:27
  I
• 9:27
  was
• 9:27
  about
• 9:27
  to
• 9:27
  leave.
• 9:28
  There's
• 9:28
  this
• 9:28
  beautiful
• 9:29
  old
• 9:29
  carved
• 9:30
  gate,
• 9:31
  and
• 9:31
  I
• 9:31
  was
• 9:31
  pushing
• 9:32
  the
• 9:32
  gate
• 9:32
  open
• 9:32
  to
• 9:33
  leave.
• 9:34
  And
• 9:34
  ironically,
• 9:35
  this
• 9:36
  hops
• 9:36
  vine
• 9:37
  reached
• 9:38
  it
• 9:38
  reached
• 9:39
  down,
• 9:40
  and
• 9:40
  it
• 9:41
  caught
• 9:41
  my
• 9:41
  arm.
• 9:42
  And
• 9:42
  if
• 9:42
  you.
• 9:42
  And
• 9:42
  I
• 9:42
  always
• 9:43
  get
• 9:43
  the
• 9:43
  chills
• 9:43
  when
• 9:43
  I
• 9:43
  describe
• 9:44
  this,
• 9:44
  but
• 9:44
  if.
• 9:44
  You
• 9:44
  know,
• 9:45
  that
• 9:45
  plant,
• 9:45
  it's
• 9:46
  very
• 9:46
  scratchy,
• 9:47
  and
• 9:47
  it
• 9:47
  has
• 9:47
  a.
• 9:49
  You
• 9:49
  know,
• 9:49
  that's
• 9:49
  kind
• 9:49
  of
• 9:49
  how
• 9:49
  it
• 9:50
  clings
• 9:50
  and
• 9:50
  wraps,
• 9:51
  you
• 9:51
  know,
• 9:52
  but
• 9:52
  it's
• 9:53
  a.
• 9:53
  And
• 9:53
  it's
• 9:53
  a
• 9:53
  bitter
• 9:54
  plant,
• 9:54
  you
• 9:54
  know,
• 9:54
  it's
• 9:55
  what
• 9:55
  they
• 9:55
  make
• 9:55
  beer
• 9:55
  out
• 9:56
  of.
• 9:56
  Right?
• 9:56
  And
• 9:57
  it
• 9:57
  reached
• 9:57
  down
• 9:58
  and
• 9:58
  caught
• 9:58
  my
• 9:59
  arm
• 10:00
  before
• 10:00
  I
• 10:00
  could
• 10:00
  leave,
• 10:01
  and
• 10:01
  it
• 10:01
  stopped
• 10:02
  me,
• 10:02
  and
• 10:02
  it,
• 10:03
  like,
• 10:03
  it
• 10:03
  forced
• 10:04
  me
• 10:04
  to
• 10:04
  hesitate.
• 10:05
  And
• 10:05
  I
• 10:06
  turned
• 10:06
  around
• 10:06
  to
• 10:06
  the
• 10:07
  garden,
• 10:07
  and
• 10:07
  the
• 10:07
  garden
• 10:08
  just
• 10:08
  kind
• 10:08
  of
• 10:08
  like,
• 10:09
  spoke
• 10:09
  to
• 10:10
  me
• 10:10
  and
• 10:10
  said,
• 10:10
  don't
• 10:11
  leave.
• 10:11
  You
• 10:11
  don't
• 10:11
  ever
• 10:12
  have
• 10:12
  to
• 10:12
  use
• 10:12
  alcohol
• 10:13
  again.
• 10:14
  We'll
• 10:14
  show
• 10:15
  you
• 10:15
  how
• 10:15
  to
• 10:15
  go
• 10:16
  forward.
• 10:17
  Don't
• 10:17
  use
• 10:17
  any
• 10:18
  alcohol.
• 10:18
  You're
• 10:19
  the
• 10:19
  sober
• 10:19
  herbalist.
• 10:21
  Don't
• 10:22
  leave.
• 10:23
  Incredible
• 10:24
  experience.
• 10:26
  That's
• 10:26
  the
• 10:27
  true.
• 10:27
  The
• 10:27
  true
• 10:28
  story
• 10:28
  of
• 10:29
  how
• 10:29
  I
• 10:29
  became
• 10:29
  a
• 10:30
  sober.
• 10:31
  Oh,
• 10:31
  that's
• 10:31
  so
• 10:32
  cool.
• 10:33
  But,
• 10:33
  I
• 10:33
  mean,
• 10:35
  I've
• 10:35
  had
• 10:36
  an
• 10:36
  experience
• 10:36
  like
• 10:36
  this
• 10:37
  when
• 10:37
  I
• 10:37
  was
• 10:37
  5
• 10:37
  years
• 10:38
  old
• 10:38
  that
• 10:38
  I
• 10:38
  went
• 10:39
  outside.
• 10:39
  My.
• 10:40
  My
• 10:40
  parents
• 10:41
  had
• 10:41
  got
• 10:41
  a
• 10:42
  cabin
• 10:42
  in
• 10:42
  the
• 10:42
  woods
• 10:43
  between.
• 10:44
  In.
• 10:44
  On
• 10:45
  the
• 10:45
  river
• 10:45
  that
• 10:45
  separates
• 10:46
  Minnesota
• 10:46
  and
• 10:46
  Wisconsin.
• 10:48
  And
• 10:49
  I
• 10:49
  went
• 10:49
  outside
• 10:49
  in
• 10:50
  the
• 10:50
  middle
• 10:50
  of
• 10:50
  the
• 10:50
  summer,
• 10:51
  and
• 10:51
  I
• 10:51
  felt
• 10:51
  the
• 10:52
  woods
• 10:52
  loved
• 10:53
  me.
• 10:55
  And
• 10:55
  I've
• 10:55
  never
• 10:56
  forgotten
• 10:56
  that,
• 10:57
  but
• 10:57
  it
• 10:57
  sounds
• 10:58
  to
• 10:59
  me
• 10:59
  the
• 10:59
  same.
• 10:59
  You
• 10:59
  had
• 11:00
  the
• 11:00
  same
• 11:00
  experience
• 11:01
  that.
• 11:01
  The
• 11:02
  herbs
• 11:02
  love
• 11:02
  you.
• 11:03
  They
• 11:04
  love
• 11:04
  you.
• 11:05
  They
• 11:05
  really
• 11:05
  don't
• 11:05
  mistake
• 11:06
  about
• 11:06
  that.
• 11:07
  Right.
• 11:07
  That's
• 11:07
  such
• 11:08
  a
• 11:08
  touching
• 11:08
  story
• 11:09
  that
• 11:09
  you
• 11:09
  shared
• 11:10
  just
• 11:10
  now.
• 11:10
  Like,
• 11:10
  just
• 11:11
  think
• 11:11
  about
• 11:12
  that.
• 11:12
  Like,
• 11:13
  well,
• 11:14
  I
• 11:14
  had
• 11:14
  embraced
• 11:15
  by
• 11:15
  nature
• 11:15
  in
• 11:16
  a
• 11:16
  moment
• 11:16
  of
• 11:17
  vulnerability.
• 11:18
  I
• 11:18
  had
• 11:18
  met
• 11:18
  the
• 11:19
  goddess
• 11:19
  Diana,
• 11:20
  the
• 11:20
  forest
• 11:20
  goddess,
• 11:21
  you
• 11:22
  know,
• 11:22
  because
• 11:22
  the.
• 11:23
  You
• 11:23
  know,
• 11:23
  but
• 11:23
  I.
• 11:24
  It
• 11:25
  was
• 11:25
  such
• 11:25
  a
• 11:26
  moving
• 11:26
  thing
• 11:28
  that
• 11:29
  I
• 11:29
  felt
• 11:29
  this
• 11:30
  love
• 11:30
  coming
• 11:30
  from
• 11:31
  the
• 11:31
  environment,
• 11:32
  from
• 11:32
  the
• 11:32
  red
• 11:32
  cedar
• 11:33
  trees
• 11:34
  and
• 11:34
  the
• 11:34
  wren
• 11:35
  singing
• 11:35
  in
• 11:35
  the
• 11:36
  woods
• 11:36
  and.
• 11:37
  And
• 11:38
  the
• 11:38
  the
• 11:38
  odor
• 11:39
  of
• 11:39
  red
• 11:40
  cedar
• 11:42
  and
• 11:42
  juniper,
• 11:45
  and
• 11:45
  I've
• 11:45
  never
• 11:45
  forgotten
• 11:46
  that.
• 11:46
  And
• 11:47
  it's,
• 11:48
  it's
• 11:49
  carried
• 11:49
  me
• 11:50
  my
• 11:50
  whole
• 11:51
  life.
• 11:52
  So,
• 11:56
  and
• 11:58
  so
• 11:58
  I
• 11:58
  do
• 11:58
  want
• 11:59
  to
• 11:59
  talk
• 11:59
  about
• 11:59
  this.
• 11:59
  We're
• 12:00
  coming
• 12:00
  up
• 12:00
  on
• 12:00
  a
• 12:00
  break.
• 12:02
  So
• 12:03
  anything
• 12:04
  that
• 12:04
  you
• 12:05
  want
• 12:05
  to
• 12:05
  add,
• 12:06
  Adam,
• 12:06
  before
• 12:07
  we
• 12:07
  take
• 12:07
  our
• 12:07
  break?
• 12:09
  I'm
• 12:09
  not
• 12:09
  sure
• 12:10
  it
• 12:10
  could
• 12:10
  fit
• 12:10
  in
• 12:11
  a
• 12:11
  break,
• 12:11
  but
• 12:12
  I
• 12:12
  do
• 12:12
  want
• 12:12
  to
• 12:12
  just
• 12:12
  mention
• 12:13
  that
• 12:13
  we're
• 12:13
  very
• 12:13
  happy
• 12:14
  to
• 12:14
  have
• 12:14
  you.
• 12:15
  You
• 12:15
  know,
• 12:15
  you've
• 12:16
  been
• 12:16
  very
• 12:16
  supportive,
• 12:16
  you've
• 12:17
  been
• 12:17
  very
• 12:17
  supportive
• 12:17
  of
• 12:18
  our
• 12:18
  project
• 12:19
  and
• 12:19
  I
• 12:20
  think
• 12:20
  this
• 12:20
  is
• 12:20
  just
• 12:21
  excellent
• 12:22
  way
• 12:23
  to
• 12:23
  begin
• 12:24
  our,
• 12:24
  almost
• 12:25
  like
• 12:25
  an
• 12:25
  interview
• 12:25
  series
• 12:26
  along
• 12:26
  the
• 12:26
  way.
• 12:28
  Because
• 12:29
  what
• 12:29
  we're
• 12:29
  seeing
• 12:29
  here
• 12:30
  is
• 12:30
  the
• 12:30
  conversation
• 12:31
  is
• 12:31
  growing,
• 12:31
  right?
• 12:32
  We
• 12:32
  want
• 12:32
  the
• 12:32
  conversation
• 12:32
  to
• 12:33
  grow
• 12:33
  and
• 12:33
  when
• 12:34
  we,
• 12:34
  we
• 12:34
  welcome
• 12:34
  you
• 12:35
  here
• 12:35
  because
• 12:35
  you
• 12:35
  bring
• 12:36
  new
• 12:36
  life
• 12:36
  to
• 12:36
  the
• 12:36
  conversation
• 12:38
  and
• 12:38
  it
• 12:39
  really
• 12:40
  enhances
• 12:40
  the
• 12:40
  conversations.
• 12:41
  That's
• 12:41
  what
• 12:41
  we're
• 12:42
  looking
• 12:42
  forward.
• 12:42
  So
• 12:42
  I
• 12:42
  really
• 12:42
  appreciate
• 12:43
  you
• 12:43
  on
• 12:43
  that
• 12:43
  note.
• 12:46
  So
• 12:46
  I'm
• 12:46
  Anthony
• 12:47
  Wright
• 12:47
  and
• 12:47
  you
• 12:48
  can
• 12:48
  get
• 12:48
  in
• 12:48
  touch
• 12:48
  with
• 12:49
  me
• 12:49
  by
• 12:49
  coming
• 12:50
  to
• 12:50
  my
• 12:50
  website,
• 12:51
  which
• 12:51
  is
• 12:52
  theonot
• 12:53
  n
• 12:54
  a
• 12:54
  u
• 12:54
  t.com
• 12:56
  and
• 12:56
  Adam,
• 12:57
  how
• 12:58
  can
• 12:58
  people
• 12:58
  contact
• 12:58
  you?
• 12:59
  Yeah,
• 13:00
  I'm
• 13:00
  Adam
• 13:00
  Dietz
• 13:00
  and
• 13:01
  you
• 13:01
  can
• 13:01
  find
• 13:01
  me
• 13:01
  online
• 13:02
  on
• 13:02
  different
• 13:02
  socials
• 13:03
  at
• 13:03
  the
• 13:03
  Way
• 13:03
  between,
• 13:05
  especially
• 13:05
  on
• 13:05
  sub
• 13:06
  stack.
• 13:06
  That's
• 13:06
  where
• 13:07
  most
• 13:07
  things
• 13:07
  filter
• 13:07
  through
• 13:08
  the
• 13:08
  way
• 13:08
  between@substack.com
• 13:10
  or
• 13:10
  you
• 13:11
  can
• 13:11
  also
• 13:11
  email
• 13:11
  me
• 13:12
  directly
• 13:12
  deeds
• 13:12
  adam,
• 13:13
  gmail.com
• 13:14
  and
• 13:14
  that's
• 13:14
  D
• 13:15
  I
• 13:16
  D
• 13:17
  I
• 13:17
  E
• 13:17
  T
• 13:17
  Z.
• 13:19
  Get
• 13:19
  mixed
• 13:20
  up
• 13:20
  with
• 13:20
  that.
• 13:21
  Thank
• 13:21
  you
• 13:21
  for
• 13:21
  clarify.
• 13:22
  And
• 13:22
  then
• 13:22
  Drea,
• 13:23
  please,
• 13:23
  how
• 13:23
  can
• 13:23
  people
• 13:24
  contact
• 13:24
  you?
• 13:25
  I'm
• 13:26
  simply@sberherbalist.com
• 13:30
  and
• 13:30
  all
• 13:31
  my
• 13:31
  contact,
• 13:32
  yeah,
• 13:32
  all
• 13:32
  my
• 13:33
  contact
• 13:33
  information
• 13:34
  is
• 13:34
  on
• 13:34
  there
• 13:34
  and
• 13:35
  you
• 13:35
  can
• 13:35
  pretty
• 13:35
  much
• 13:36
  find
• 13:36
  me
• 13:36
  on
• 13:36
  all
• 13:36
  the
• 13:37
  platforms
• 13:37
  at
• 13:38
  Sober
• 13:39
  Herbalist,
• 13:40
  all
• 13:41
  one
• 13:41
  word,
• 13:42
  lowercase.
• 13:43
  Know
• 13:43
  the.
• 13:46
  Sober
• 13:47
  herbalist
• 13:47
  dot
• 13:48
  com.
• 13:48
  Correct.
• 13:49
  Great.
• 13:51
  All
• 13:51
  right.
• 13:51
  Well,
• 13:51
  we're
• 13:52
  going
• 13:52
  to
• 13:52
  take
• 13:52
  a
• 13:52
  short
• 13:52
  break
• 13:52
  and
• 13:53
  be
• 13:53
  right
• 13:53
  back.
• 13:54
  So
• 13:54
  stay
• 13:54
  tuned.
• 14:12
  I'm
• 14:12
  Anthony
• 14:13
  Wright
• 14:13
  and
• 14:14
  I
• 14:14
  am
• 14:15
  your
• 14:15
  co
• 14:15
  host
• 14:16
  today
• 14:16
  on
• 14:16
  the
• 14:17
  Living
• 14:17
  Conversation
• 14:18
  with
• 14:19
  Adam
• 14:19
  Dietz.
• 14:19
  Welcome.
• 14:20
  And
• 14:20
  we
• 14:20
  are
• 14:21
  here
• 14:21
  with
• 14:22
  our
• 14:22
  guest,
• 14:23
  Drea,
• 14:24
  the
• 14:24
  Sober
• 14:24
  Herbalist.
• 14:27
  Andrea,
• 14:28
  before
• 14:28
  the
• 14:29
  break,
• 14:30
  you
• 14:31
  were
• 14:31
  talking
• 14:31
  about
• 14:32
  your
• 14:33
  experience
• 14:35
  with
• 14:36
  Lyme
• 14:36
  disease
• 14:37
  and
• 14:38
  the
• 14:39
  treatment
• 14:39
  that
• 14:40
  western
• 14:40
  medicine
• 14:41
  just
• 14:42
  didn't
• 14:43
  make
• 14:43
  it.
• 14:45
  And
• 14:45
  you
• 14:45
  were
• 14:46
  drawn
• 14:46
  to
• 14:47
  ayurvedic
• 14:50
  remedies,
• 14:51
  but
• 14:52
  then
• 14:52
  to
• 14:53
  herbal
• 14:54
  remedies.
• 14:55
  But
• 14:55
  the
• 14:55
  problem
• 14:55
  with
• 14:56
  the
• 14:56
  herbal
• 14:56
  remedies
• 14:57
  was
• 14:57
  that
• 14:58
  the,
• 14:59
  the
• 14:59
  medium
• 15:00
  for
• 15:00
  carrying
• 15:01
  those
• 15:01
  herbal
• 15:02
  tinctures
• 15:03
  was
• 15:03
  alcohol.
• 15:05
  And
• 15:05
  that
• 15:05
  didn't
• 15:06
  work
• 15:06
  for
• 15:06
  you.
• 15:06
  And
• 15:08
  it
• 15:08
  was
• 15:09
  so
• 15:09
  striking
• 15:09
  to
• 15:09
  me
• 15:10
  to
• 15:10
  hear
• 15:10
  your
• 15:11
  experience
• 15:12
  in
• 15:13
  the
• 15:13
  herb
• 15:13
  garden
• 15:15
  because
• 15:15
  you
• 15:16
  had
• 15:16
  said
• 15:17
  the
• 15:17
  hop
• 15:17
  spine
• 15:18
  reached
• 15:19
  out
• 15:19
  to
• 15:20
  you
• 15:21
  and
• 15:21
  stopped
• 15:23
  you
• 15:23
  from
• 15:23
  leaving.
• 15:24
  And
• 15:27
  how
• 15:27
  did
• 15:28
  you
• 15:28
  experience
• 15:30
  what
• 15:31
  those.
• 15:31
  What
• 15:32
  the
• 15:32
  herbs,
• 15:33
  what
• 15:33
  the
• 15:34
  garden
• 15:35
  communicated
• 15:36
  to
• 15:36
  you?
• 15:38
  What
• 15:38
  was
• 15:38
  your
• 15:39
  experience?
• 15:41
  Well,
• 15:42
  it
• 15:42
  was
• 15:42
  a.
• 15:42
  It
• 15:43
  was
• 15:43
  a
• 15:43
  crossroads
• 15:44
  moment.
• 15:44
  I
• 15:44
  know.
• 15:44
  I
• 15:45
  think
• 15:45
  people
• 15:45
  are
• 15:45
  pretty
• 15:46
  familiar
• 15:46
  with
• 15:46
  what
• 15:46
  a
• 15:47
  crossroads
• 15:47
  is,
• 15:48
  personal
• 15:49
  crossroads,
• 15:50
  where
• 15:51
  you
• 15:51
  just
• 15:51
  feel
• 15:51
  like,
• 15:52
  you
• 15:52
  know,
• 15:55
  you're
• 15:56
  put
• 15:56
  in
• 15:56
  a
• 15:56
  position
• 15:57
  and
• 15:57
  you
• 15:57
  have
• 15:57
  to
• 15:57
  make
• 15:57
  a
• 15:58
  choice.
• 15:58
  And
• 15:59
  the
• 15:59
  choice
• 15:59
  is
• 15:59
  kind
• 15:59
  of
• 16:00
  heartbreaking
• 16:00
  and
• 16:00
  difficult.
• 16:01
  And
• 16:01
  there's
• 16:01
  a
• 16:02
  forced
• 16:02
  letting
• 16:02
  go
• 16:05
  and.
• 16:05
  And
• 16:05
  I.
• 16:06
  And
• 16:06
  there's
• 16:06
  a.
• 16:06
  You
• 16:06
  know,
• 16:07
  there's
• 16:07
  just
• 16:07
  a.
• 16:08
  Yeah,
• 16:08
  often
• 16:09
  it's
• 16:09
  this
• 16:09
  weird
• 16:10
  experience
• 16:10
  of
• 16:10
  having
• 16:11
  to
• 16:12
  weigh
• 16:13
  what's
• 16:13
  going
• 16:13
  on
• 16:13
  and
• 16:14
  make
• 16:14
  a
• 16:14
  difficult
• 16:15
  choice.
• 16:15
  And
• 16:16
  anyway,
• 16:16
  and
• 16:16
  it
• 16:17
  usually
• 16:17
  involves
• 16:17
  your
• 16:18
  body
• 16:18
  and
• 16:18
  it
• 16:18
  involves
• 16:19
  some
• 16:19
  sort
• 16:19
  of
• 16:19
  like
• 16:19
  very,
• 16:21
  you
• 16:22
  know,
• 16:22
  there's
• 16:22
  a
• 16:22
  very
• 16:23
  mortal
• 16:23
  physical
• 16:24
  aspect
• 16:24
  to
• 16:25
  that
• 16:25
  crossroads.
• 16:25
  But
• 16:26
  anyways,
• 16:26
  what
• 16:26
  I
• 16:26
  experienced
• 16:27
  was
• 16:27
  that
• 16:27
  I
• 16:28
  was
• 16:28
  heartbroken
• 16:29
  that
• 16:29
  I
• 16:29
  went
• 16:30
  to
• 16:30
  study,
• 16:32
  you
• 16:32
  know,
• 16:32
  herbalism
• 16:33
  and
• 16:34
  that.
• 16:35
  And
• 16:35
  like
• 16:36
  I
• 16:36
  said,
• 16:36
  I
• 16:36
  thought
• 16:36
  it
• 16:36
  was
• 16:37
  going
• 16:37
  to
• 16:37
  be
• 16:37
  this,
• 16:37
  like,
• 16:37
  very
• 16:37
  nurturing,
• 16:38
  safe
• 16:39
  environment
• 16:39
  with
• 16:40
  all
• 16:40
  these
• 16:40
  elders
• 16:41
  and
• 16:42
  all
• 16:42
  this,
• 16:42
  like,
• 16:43
  really
• 16:44
  a
• 16:44
  lot
• 16:44
  of
• 16:44
  care
• 16:46
  and
• 16:46
  consideration
• 16:47
  and
• 16:47
  respect
• 16:48
  and,
• 16:48
  I
• 16:49
  don't
• 16:49
  know,
• 16:49
  security,
• 16:50
  I
• 16:50
  guess.
• 16:51
  And
• 16:51
  then.
• 16:51
  And
• 16:52
  then
• 16:52
  experiencing
• 16:53
  that
• 16:53
  actually
• 16:53
  there
• 16:54
  was
• 16:54
  a
• 16:54
  lot
• 16:54
  of,
• 16:54
  like,
• 16:55
  the
• 16:55
  environment
• 16:55
  was
• 16:56
  just
• 16:56
  not
• 16:56
  what
• 16:57
  I
• 16:57
  expected.
• 16:57
  And
• 16:58
  so
• 16:58
  from
• 16:58
  the
• 16:59
  human,
• 16:59
  I
• 16:59
  had
• 17:00
  a.
• 17:00
  Yeah,
• 17:00
  I
• 17:01
  just
• 17:01
  was
• 17:01
  brokenhearted.
• 17:02
  And
• 17:02
  so
• 17:02
  I
• 17:02
  was
• 17:03
  like,
• 17:03
  well,
• 17:03
  I
• 17:03
  think
• 17:03
  I'm
• 17:04
  gonna
• 17:04
  have
• 17:04
  to
• 17:04
  quit.
• 17:04
  But
• 17:04
  I
• 17:05
  went
• 17:05
  into
• 17:05
  the
• 17:05
  garden
• 17:06
  first
• 17:06
  to
• 17:06
  kind
• 17:07
  of
• 17:07
  like
• 17:08
  connect
• 17:08
  with
• 17:09
  the
• 17:09
  plants
• 17:09
  because
• 17:09
  I
• 17:10
  had.
• 17:10
  In
• 17:10
  herb
• 17:11
  school,
• 17:12
  I
• 17:12
  wasn't
• 17:12
  just
• 17:13
  a
• 17:13
  student.
• 17:13
  I
• 17:13
  was
• 17:13
  also
• 17:14
  a
• 17:14
  garden
• 17:14
  apprentice.
• 17:15
  And
• 17:15
  that's
• 17:15
  someone
• 17:16
  who
• 17:16
  does
• 17:17
  work
• 17:17
  in
• 17:17
  the
• 17:18
  garden
• 17:18
  directly
• 17:19
  in
• 17:19
  addition
• 17:19
  to
• 17:20
  studying
• 17:20
  with
• 17:20
  the
• 17:20
  herbs.
• 17:21
  Like,
• 17:21
  we're.
• 17:21
  We're
• 17:22
  in
• 17:22
  charge
• 17:22
  of
• 17:22
  the
• 17:22
  garden
• 17:23
  for
• 17:23
  that
• 17:23
  period
• 17:23
  of
• 17:24
  time,
• 17:24
  that
• 17:24
  10
• 17:24
  months.
• 17:26
  So
• 17:26
  I
• 17:26
  had
• 17:26
  already
• 17:27
  been
• 17:27
  in
• 17:27
  there,
• 17:27
  like,
• 17:28
  weeding
• 17:28
  and
• 17:29
  weeping
• 17:30
  and
• 17:30
  connecting
• 17:31
  with
• 17:31
  that
• 17:31
  garden
• 17:32
  and
• 17:33
  its
• 17:33
  spirits
• 17:34
  and
• 17:34
  its
• 17:35
  beings.
• 17:37
  And
• 17:38
  so
• 17:38
  I
• 17:38
  went
• 17:38
  in
• 17:39
  there
• 17:39
  with
• 17:39
  a
• 17:39
  broken
• 17:39
  heart.
• 17:40
  The
• 17:40
  way
• 17:40
  you
• 17:40
  would
• 17:40
  maybe
• 17:41
  go
• 17:42
  into
• 17:42
  a
• 17:42
  community
• 17:42
  where
• 17:43
  you
• 17:43
  feel
• 17:43
  like
• 17:43
  you're
• 17:44
  safe
• 17:44
  and
• 17:45
  you
• 17:45
  can
• 17:45
  trust
• 17:46
  being
• 17:46
  vulnerable.
• 17:47
  And
• 17:47
  I
• 17:47
  went
• 17:48
  in
• 17:48
  there
• 17:48
  kind
• 17:48
  of
• 17:48
  brokenhearted
• 17:49
  and
• 17:49
  sad
• 17:49
  and
• 17:50
  just
• 17:50
  like,
• 17:50
  I'm
• 17:50
  going
• 17:50
  to
• 17:50
  say
• 17:51
  goodbye
• 17:51
  now
• 17:51
  and
• 17:51
  thank
• 17:52
  you
• 17:52
  and
• 17:52
  I
• 17:52
  hope
• 17:52
  to
• 17:53
  reconnect
• 17:53
  with
• 17:53
  you
• 17:53
  somehow.
• 17:55
  And.
• 17:56
  And
• 17:56
  then.
• 17:56
  And
• 17:56
  then
• 17:56
  it
• 17:57
  just
• 17:57
  was
• 17:57
  like
• 17:58
  there
• 17:58
  was
• 17:58
  an
• 17:58
  about
• 17:58
  face
• 17:59
  in
• 17:59
  terms
• 17:59
  of
• 18:00
  what
• 18:00
  happened.
• 18:01
  That
• 18:01
  was
• 18:02
  the
• 18:02
  response
• 18:03
  from
• 18:03
  these
• 18:03
  beings
• 18:04
  was
• 18:04
  just
• 18:05
  sort
• 18:05
  of
• 18:05
  like,
• 18:05
  wait.
• 18:06
  And
• 18:07
  it
• 18:07
  wasn't
• 18:07
  the
• 18:07
  first
• 18:08
  time
• 18:08
  that
• 18:08
  I
• 18:08
  had,
• 18:09
  like
• 18:09
  an
• 18:10
  awakening.
• 18:12
  Oh,
• 18:12
  really?
• 18:13
  No,
• 18:14
  it's
• 18:14
  just
• 18:14
  like
• 18:14
  what
• 18:14
  you
• 18:15
  were
• 18:15
  describing
• 18:15
  with
• 18:16
  your
• 18:16
  experience
• 18:16
  as
• 18:17
  a
• 18:17
  young
• 18:17
  child,
• 18:17
  being
• 18:18
  surrounded
• 18:18
  by
• 18:19
  this
• 18:19
  amount,
• 18:19
  immense
• 18:20
  care
• 18:20
  and
• 18:20
  the
• 18:21
  sensory
• 18:21
  experience
• 18:22
  of
• 18:23
  wasn't
• 18:24
  the
• 18:24
  thing.
• 18:24
  Yeah,
• 18:25
  yeah.
• 18:25
  I
• 18:26
  mean,
• 18:26
  it's
• 18:26
  like.
• 18:26
  It's
• 18:26
  a
• 18:27
  very
• 18:27
  overwhelming
• 18:28
  moment.
• 18:29
  And.
• 18:30
  And
• 18:31
  it's
• 18:31
  a
• 18:31
  spirit.
• 18:31
  It's
• 18:32
  a
• 18:32
  spiritual
• 18:32
  moment
• 18:33
  in
• 18:33
  which
• 18:33
  you
• 18:33
  really
• 18:34
  are.
• 18:34
  You're
• 18:34
  so
• 18:34
  open
• 18:35
  and
• 18:35
  you're
• 18:35
  vulnerable,
• 18:36
  and
• 18:36
  you're
• 18:36
  just
• 18:36
  like.
• 18:37
  You're
• 18:37
  kind
• 18:37
  of
• 18:37
  like
• 18:38
  down
• 18:39
  on
• 18:39
  your
• 18:39
  knees
• 18:39
  in
• 18:40
  a
• 18:40
  way,
• 18:41
  spiritually.
• 18:42
  Yeah.
• 18:43
  Yeah.
• 18:43
  Well.
• 18:44
  And
• 18:45
  it.
• 18:46
  It.
• 18:46
  From
• 18:46
  what
• 18:47
  it
• 18:47
  seems
• 18:48
  that
• 18:49
  the.
• 18:51
  That
• 18:51
  connection
• 18:53
  with
• 18:54
  these
• 18:55
  plant
• 18:56
  beings.
• 18:56
  I
• 18:56
  mean,
• 18:57
  in.
• 18:58
  In
• 18:59
  Western
• 19:00
  idea,
• 19:02
  we
• 19:02
  thought,
• 19:03
  oh,
• 19:03
  they're
• 19:03
  just
• 19:03
  plants.
• 19:04
  Right.
• 19:05
  But
• 19:05
  they're
• 19:06
  beings.
• 19:07
  They
• 19:07
  have
• 19:07
  a.
• 19:08
  An
• 19:08
  energy,
• 19:09
  they
• 19:09
  have
• 19:09
  a
• 19:11
  modality,
• 19:11
  they
• 19:12
  have
• 19:12
  a.
• 19:14
  A
• 19:14
  relationship,
• 19:16
  you
• 19:16
  know,
• 19:17
  And
• 19:20
  I
• 19:21
  think
• 19:21
  maybe
• 19:23
  normal
• 19:23
  human
• 19:23
  beings
• 19:25
  make
• 19:25
  an
• 19:25
  error
• 19:26
  there
• 19:26
  because
• 19:26
  we
• 19:26
  can
• 19:27
  walk
• 19:27
  around
• 19:27
  and
• 19:27
  the
• 19:28
  plants
• 19:28
  don't.
• 19:29
  But,
• 19:30
  you
• 19:31
  know,
• 19:32
  I'm
• 19:32
  also.
• 19:33
  What's
• 19:33
  coming
• 19:34
  to
• 19:34
  mind
• 19:35
  is
• 19:36
  the
• 19:37
  role
• 19:38
  that
• 19:41
  fungi
• 19:42
  play
• 19:42
  in
• 19:44
  developing
• 19:45
  a
• 19:46
  community.
• 19:48
  In
• 19:48
  terms.
• 19:49
  And
• 19:51
  what's
• 19:51
  his
• 19:52
  name?
• 19:52
  Merlin
• 19:53
  Sheldrake,
• 19:54
  has
• 19:54
  written
• 19:55
  a
• 19:55
  wonderful
• 19:55
  book
• 19:57
  on
• 19:58
  the.
• 19:58
  The.
• 19:59
  The
• 20:00
  role
• 20:01
  that
• 20:01
  fungi
• 20:02
  play
• 20:02
  in
• 20:03
  forest
• 20:05
  communities.
• 20:06
  But
• 20:06
  I'm
• 20:06
  also
• 20:06
  thinking
• 20:07
  about
• 20:07
  this,
• 20:09
  what
• 20:09
  I
• 20:09
  think
• 20:09
  has
• 20:10
  been
• 20:10
  called
• 20:10
  the
• 20:10
  largest
• 20:11
  living
• 20:11
  organism
• 20:12
  on
• 20:12
  the
• 20:12
  planet,
• 20:13
  which
• 20:13
  is
• 20:13
  an
• 20:13
  aspen
• 20:14
  grove
• 20:14
  which
• 20:15
  has
• 20:16
  thousands
• 20:16
  of
• 20:19
  individual
• 20:20
  trees.
• 20:20
  But
• 20:21
  they're
• 20:21
  all
• 20:21
  connected
• 20:22
  in
• 20:22
  the
• 20:22
  root
• 20:22
  system,
• 20:23
  and
• 20:23
  they're
• 20:23
  one
• 20:23
  being,
• 20:24
  you
• 20:24
  know,
• 20:26
  so.
• 20:27
  But
• 20:27
  it
• 20:27
  seems
• 20:27
  like
• 20:28
  that
• 20:28
  that
• 20:28
  was
• 20:28
  what
• 20:29
  your
• 20:29
  experience
• 20:30
  was
• 20:30
  in
• 20:30
  the
• 20:30
  herb
• 20:31
  garden.
• 20:32
  You
• 20:32
  had
• 20:32
  made
• 20:32
  friends,
• 20:33
  and
• 20:34
  they
• 20:34
  let
• 20:34
  you
• 20:34
  know
• 20:35
  that
• 20:35
  they
• 20:36
  didn't
• 20:36
  want
• 20:36
  you
• 20:36
  to
• 20:36
  leave.
• 20:37
  Yeah.
• 20:38
  I
• 20:38
  have
• 20:38
  a
• 20:38
  question
• 20:38
  about
• 20:39
  that.
• 20:40
  From
• 20:40
  everything
• 20:41
  you
• 20:41
  described,
• 20:42
  it
• 20:42
  actually
• 20:42
  reminds
• 20:43
  me
• 20:43
  a
• 20:43
  little
• 20:43
  bit
• 20:43
  when
• 20:43
  you
• 20:43
  take
• 20:44
  crossroads
• 20:44
  moment
• 20:45
  and
• 20:47
  this
• 20:48
  sense.
• 20:48
  It
• 20:48
  just
• 20:49
  seems
• 20:49
  like
• 20:49
  you
• 20:49
  had
• 20:50
  such
• 20:50
  a
• 20:50
  sense
• 20:50
  of
• 20:51
  humility
• 20:51
  and
• 20:51
  humbleness
• 20:52
  to
• 20:53
  even
• 20:53
  be
• 20:53
  in
• 20:53
  that
• 20:53
  headspace
• 20:54
  in
• 20:54
  the
• 20:54
  first
• 20:54
  place.
• 20:55
  It
• 20:56
  reminds
• 20:56
  me
• 20:56
  a
• 20:56
  lot
• 20:56
  of.
• 20:57
  We
• 20:57
  talk
• 20:57
  about
• 20:57
  the
• 20:58
  book
• 20:58
  of
• 20:58
  changes,
• 20:59
  where
• 20:59
  you
• 20:59
  could
• 20:59
  use
• 20:59
  sincere
• 21:00
  energy
• 21:00
  or
• 21:01
  humble
• 21:01
  energy.
• 21:02
  Could
• 21:02
  you
• 21:02
  talk
• 21:02
  about
• 21:03
  where
• 21:04
  your
• 21:05
  headspace
• 21:05
  was
• 21:05
  when
• 21:06
  you
• 21:06
  were
• 21:06
  kind
• 21:06
  of.
• 21:07
  I
• 21:08
  feel
• 21:08
  like
• 21:08
  you
• 21:08
  were
• 21:08
  very
• 21:08
  open
• 21:09
  and
• 21:09
  you
• 21:09
  were
• 21:09
  very.
• 21:10
  You
• 21:10
  were
• 21:10
  using
• 21:10
  humble
• 21:11
  energy.
• 21:11
  Is
• 21:11
  that
• 21:11
  true?
• 21:13
  I
• 21:13
  mean,
• 21:13
  yeah,
• 21:14
  because
• 21:14
  it's
• 21:14
  part
• 21:15
  of
• 21:15
  being
• 21:16
  like,
• 21:16
  you
• 21:16
  know,
• 21:17
  Anthony's
• 21:18
  question,
• 21:18
  the
• 21:18
  first,
• 21:18
  like,
• 21:19
  how'd
• 21:19
  you
• 21:19
  become
• 21:19
  a
• 21:19
  sober
• 21:20
  herbalist?
• 21:20
  And
• 21:20
  I
• 21:20
  was
• 21:21
  like,
• 21:21
  well,
• 21:21
  the
• 21:21
  sober
• 21:22
  part
• 21:22
  came
• 21:22
  first.
• 21:24
  And
• 21:24
  in
• 21:24
  the
• 21:25
  recovery,
• 21:28
  you
• 21:28
  know,
• 21:28
  program
• 21:29
  that
• 21:29
  I'm
• 21:29
  in.
• 21:29
  Humility
• 21:30
  is
• 21:30
  a.
• 21:31
  It's
• 21:32
  basically
• 21:32
  an
• 21:33
  important
• 21:35
  attitude
• 21:36
  or
• 21:36
  posture
• 21:37
  to
• 21:38
  always
• 21:39
  try
• 21:39
  and
• 21:40
  practice
• 21:40
  and.
• 21:41
  And
• 21:42
  maintain.
• 21:43
  But
• 21:44
  nothing
• 21:45
  like
• 21:45
  a
• 21:45
  moment
• 21:46
  of
• 21:46
  powerlessness
• 21:48
  or
• 21:49
  a
• 21:49
  painful
• 21:50
  truth
• 21:51
  or
• 21:51
  a
• 21:51
  recognition
• 21:52
  that
• 21:52
  you've
• 21:52
  been
• 21:52
  beat
• 21:53
  or
• 21:53
  something
• 21:53
  can't
• 21:54
  be
• 21:54
  won
• 21:54
  or
• 21:55
  it's
• 21:55
  not
• 21:55
  going
• 21:55
  to
• 21:55
  work
• 21:56
  to
• 21:57
  strike
• 21:57
  you
• 21:57
  in
• 21:57
  that
• 21:58
  position
• 21:58
  and
• 21:59
  to
• 21:59
  just
• 21:59
  put
• 21:59
  you
• 21:59
  there.
• 22:01
  And
• 22:01
  so
• 22:01
  I
• 22:02
  was
• 22:02
  definitely
• 22:02
  in
• 22:03
  a
• 22:03
  humble
• 22:04
  moment
• 22:05
  because
• 22:05
  I
• 22:05
  realized
• 22:06
  the
• 22:06
  truth
• 22:06
  is
• 22:06
  that
• 22:07
  the
• 22:07
  disease
• 22:08
  of
• 22:08
  alcoholism
• 22:09
  for
• 22:10
  me
• 22:10
  is
• 22:10
  more
• 22:11
  powerful
• 22:12
  than
• 22:13
  my
• 22:13
  desire
• 22:14
  to
• 22:14
  stay
• 22:15
  in
• 22:15
  some
• 22:15
  program
• 22:16
  where
• 22:17
  the
• 22:18
  main
• 22:18
  conversation
• 22:19
  and
• 22:19
  the
• 22:19
  dominant
• 22:19
  paradigm
• 22:20
  of
• 22:20
  preparations
• 22:21
  was
• 22:22
  tincturing,
• 22:23
  you
• 22:23
  know,
• 22:23
  plants.
• 22:23
  And
• 22:24
  that
• 22:24
  was
• 22:25
  the
• 22:25
  focus.
• 22:27
  And
• 22:27
  so,
• 22:28
  yeah,
• 22:28
  the
• 22:28
  humility
• 22:28
  was
• 22:29
  the
• 22:29
  fact
• 22:29
  that
• 22:29
  I
• 22:29
  was
• 22:29
  like,
• 22:29
  I
• 22:30
  can't
• 22:30
  do
• 22:30
  this
• 22:30
  and
• 22:30
  this
• 22:30
  isn't
• 22:31
  going
• 22:31
  to
• 22:31
  work
• 22:31
  with
• 22:31
  me
• 22:32
  and
• 22:32
  let
• 22:33
  you
• 22:33
  know,
• 22:33
  it's
• 22:33
  like,
• 22:33
  this
• 22:33
  is
• 22:34
  too
• 22:34
  big
• 22:34
  of
• 22:34
  a
• 22:34
  risk.
• 22:34
  I'm
• 22:35
  not
• 22:35
  willing
• 22:35
  to
• 22:35
  take
• 22:35
  it.
• 22:35
  And
• 22:36
  that's
• 22:36
  the
• 22:36
  truth
• 22:37
  of
• 22:37
  it.
• 22:37
  Like,
• 22:37
  I'm,
• 22:38
  you
• 22:38
  know,
• 22:40
  I've
• 22:40
  got
• 22:40
  to.
• 22:40
  Paradoxical
• 22:41
  it
• 22:41
  was
• 22:42
  that
• 22:42
  the.
• 22:43
  For
• 22:44
  you,
• 22:44
  as
• 22:44
  a
• 22:45
  sober
• 22:45
  person,
• 22:48
  had
• 22:48
  dealt
• 22:48
  with
• 22:49
  one
• 22:50
  aspect
• 22:50
  and.
• 22:50
  And
• 22:51
  what
• 22:51
  you
• 22:51
  just
• 22:52
  said
• 22:52
  about
• 22:53
  this
• 22:54
  term.
• 22:54
  Dis
• 22:55
  Ease,
• 22:57
  unease,
• 22:59
  disharmony,
• 23:01
  but
• 23:02
  that.
• 23:02
  That
• 23:02
  was
• 23:02
  used
• 23:03
  as
• 23:03
  a
• 23:03
  medium
• 23:04
  for.
• 23:04
  For
• 23:08
  carrying
• 23:09
  the
• 23:09
  healing
• 23:10
  tincture
• 23:11
  of
• 23:12
  these
• 23:14
  loving
• 23:15
  plant
• 23:16
  people.
• 23:16
  Plant
• 23:16
  beings.
• 23:20
  So
• 23:22
  how
• 23:23
  did
• 23:23
  you
• 23:26
  solve
• 23:26
  that?
• 23:27
  Yeah,
• 23:27
  that's.
• 23:27
  I
• 23:27
  was
• 23:27
  gonna
• 23:28
  ask
• 23:28
  something
• 23:28
  similar
• 23:29
  along
• 23:29
  those
• 23:30
  lines.
• 23:31
  Like,
• 23:32
  that
• 23:32
  was
• 23:32
  the
• 23:32
  humble
• 23:32
  part.
• 23:33
  Right.
• 23:33
  So
• 23:34
  how
• 23:34
  you.
• 23:35
  How
• 23:35
  did
• 23:35
  you
• 23:35
  practice
• 23:35
  sincerity
• 23:36
  now
• 23:36
  of
• 23:37
  going
• 23:37
  forward
• 23:37
  and
• 23:38
  acting
• 23:38
  like
• 23:38
  you
• 23:38
  must
• 23:39
  have
• 23:39
  had
• 23:39
  a
• 23:39
  lot
• 23:39
  of
• 23:41
  obstacles
• 23:42
  and.
• 23:42
  And
• 23:43
  twists
• 23:43
  and
• 23:44
  turns
• 23:44
  along
• 23:44
  the
• 23:44
  way
• 23:44
  where
• 23:44
  you
• 23:45
  had
• 23:45
  to
• 23:45
  present
• 23:46
  and
• 23:46
  you
• 23:46
  had
• 23:46
  to
• 23:46
  be
• 23:47
  outgoing
• 23:47
  and
• 23:47
  you
• 23:47
  had
• 23:47
  to
• 23:48
  produce
• 23:48
  something
• 23:49
  like.
• 23:49
  So
• 23:49
  this
• 23:49
  is
• 23:50
  the
• 23:50
  sincerity.
• 23:50
  So
• 23:50
  we
• 23:51
  talked
• 23:51
  about
• 23:51
  the
• 23:51
  humble
• 23:51
  side.
• 23:52
  Can
• 23:52
  you
• 23:52
  talk
• 23:52
  about
• 23:53
  the
• 23:53
  sincerity
• 23:53
  of
• 23:54
  you
• 23:54
  putting
• 23:54
  your
• 23:54
  work
• 23:55
  out
• 23:55
  there?
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 23:58
  I
• 23:58
  mean,
• 23:58
  the
• 23:58
  sincerity
• 23:59
  came
• 23:59
  from
• 23:59
  the
• 24:00
  fact
• 24:00
  that
• 24:00
  I
• 24:00
  realized
• 24:01
  that
• 24:02
  it.
• 24:03
  It's
• 24:03
  easy
• 24:04
  in
• 24:04
  that
• 24:04
  kind
• 24:04
  of
• 24:04
  situation
• 24:05
  to
• 24:05
  point
• 24:06
  a
• 24:06
  finger
• 24:06
  and
• 24:06
  to
• 24:07
  blame,
• 24:07
  which
• 24:08
  I'm
• 24:08
  absolutely,
• 24:09
  you
• 24:09
  know,
• 24:09
  capable
• 24:10
  of
• 24:10
  doing
• 24:10
  that
• 24:11
  and
• 24:11
  saying,
• 24:11
  like,
• 24:11
  you,
• 24:12
  you
• 24:12
  know,
• 24:12
  you
• 24:13
  didn't
• 24:13
  respect
• 24:14
  me
• 24:14
  and
• 24:14
  you
• 24:14
  didn't
• 24:15
  prepare
• 24:15
  for
• 24:16
  me
• 24:16
  and
• 24:16
  you
• 24:17
  don't
• 24:17
  understand
• 24:17
  sobriety.
• 24:18
  You
• 24:18
  know,
• 24:18
  it's
• 24:19
  like.
• 24:19
  And
• 24:20
  I
• 24:20
  did
• 24:20
  that
• 24:20
  for
• 24:20
  sure,
• 24:21
  you
• 24:21
  know,
• 24:22
  but
• 24:22
  the
• 24:23
  moment
• 24:23
  of
• 24:23
  sincerity
• 24:24
  was
• 24:24
  simply
• 24:24
  that
• 24:25
  I
• 24:25
  was
• 24:25
  like,
• 24:25
  oh,
• 24:25
  my
• 24:25
  God.
• 24:27
  They
• 24:27
  do
• 24:28
  not
• 24:28
  understand
• 24:29
  alcoholism
• 24:30
  and
• 24:30
  addiction.
• 24:31
  They
• 24:31
  do
• 24:31
  not
• 24:32
  understand
• 24:32
  substance
• 24:33
  abuse.
• 24:34
  They
• 24:34
  do
• 24:34
  not
• 24:35
  understand
• 24:35
  why
• 24:36
  that
• 24:36
  I'm
• 24:36
  allergic
• 24:37
  to
• 24:37
  this
• 24:37
  alcohol
• 24:38
  and
• 24:38
  even
• 24:39
  in
• 24:39
  this
• 24:39
  form,
• 24:40
  I
• 24:40
  can'
• 24:41
  and
• 24:41
  shouldn't
• 24:41
  take
• 24:42
  it.
• 24:42
  They
• 24:43
  just
• 24:43
  don't
• 24:43
  know.
• 24:45
  So
• 24:45
  the
• 24:46
  sincerity
• 24:46
  came
• 24:46
  from
• 24:47
  this
• 24:47
  recognition
• 24:47
  that
• 24:48
  it
• 24:48
  was
• 24:48
  like
• 24:48
  I
• 24:48
  was
• 24:48
  holding
• 24:49
  something
• 24:49
  that
• 24:50
  needed
• 24:50
  to
• 24:50
  be
• 24:50
  shared
• 24:51
  because
• 24:51
  it
• 24:51
  was
• 24:52
  fault
• 24:53
  that
• 24:53
  they
• 24:53
  didn't
• 24:54
  simply
• 24:54
  that
• 24:55
  no
• 24:55
  one
• 24:55
  had
• 24:55
  shared
• 24:55
  with
• 24:56
  them
• 24:56
  in
• 24:56
  a
• 24:56
  way
• 24:56
  that
• 24:57
  they
• 24:57
  could
• 24:57
  maybe
• 24:57
  wrap
• 24:58
  their
• 24:58
  heads
• 24:58
  around
• 24:59
  in
• 24:59
  that
• 24:59
  context.
• 25:00
  And
• 25:00
  it
• 25:00
  was
• 25:01
  like,
• 25:01
  well,
• 25:01
  there's
• 25:01
  no
• 25:01
  one
• 25:01
  talking
• 25:02
  about
• 25:02
  this.
• 25:03
  What
• 25:03
  a
• 25:03
  wonderful
• 25:04
  opportunity,
• 25:04
  though.
• 25:05
  I
• 25:05
  know.
• 25:05
  And
• 25:06
  my
• 25:06
  teachers,
• 25:06
  who
• 25:07
  were
• 25:08
  famous
• 25:08
  herbalists,
• 25:09
  very
• 25:09
  important
• 25:10
  in
• 25:10
  the
• 25:10
  field,
• 25:11
  very
• 25:11
  important
• 25:12
  in
• 25:12
  the
• 25:12
  profession.
• 25:13
  They
• 25:14
  told
• 25:14
  me,
• 25:14
  don't
• 25:15
  ever.
• 25:15
  And
• 25:15
  they
• 25:15
  said
• 25:16
  it
• 25:16
  without
• 25:16
  even
• 25:16
  really,
• 25:17
  totally
• 25:18
  knowing
• 25:18
  that
• 25:18
  I
• 25:18
  was
• 25:18
  sober.
• 25:19
  I
• 25:19
  think
• 25:19
  they
• 25:19
  were
• 25:19
  just
• 25:19
  speaking
• 25:20
  to
• 25:20
  the
• 25:20
  class.
• 25:21
  They
• 25:22
  didn't
• 25:22
  know
• 25:22
  us
• 25:22
  all
• 25:22
  as
• 25:22
  individuals.
• 25:23
  And
• 25:23
  they
• 25:23
  were
• 25:23
  like,
• 25:24
  don't
• 25:24
  ever
• 25:24
  give
• 25:25
  a
• 25:25
  tincture
• 25:26
  to
• 25:26
  an
• 25:26
  alcoholic
• 25:27
  because
• 25:27
  you
• 25:27
  could
• 25:27
  cause
• 25:28
  a
• 25:28
  relapse.
• 25:29
  They
• 25:29
  did
• 25:30
  say
• 25:30
  that,
• 25:31
  but
• 25:31
  they
• 25:31
  said
• 25:32
  nothing
• 25:32
  more.
• 25:34
  And
• 25:34
  I
• 25:34
  was,
• 25:34
  like,
• 25:35
  trying
• 25:35
  to
• 25:35
  raise
• 25:35
  my
• 25:36
  hand
• 25:36
  and
• 25:36
  say,
• 25:36
  like,
• 25:37
  what
• 25:37
  are
• 25:37
  you
• 25:37
  doing?
• 25:39
  When
• 25:39
  I
• 25:40
  asked
• 25:40
  that
• 25:40
  question
• 25:41
  to
• 25:41
  them,
• 25:41
  do
• 25:41
  you
• 25:41
  know
• 25:42
  what
• 25:42
  they
• 25:42
  said?
• 25:43
  Nothing.
• 25:44
  They
• 25:44
  did
• 25:44
  not
• 25:45
  have
• 25:45
  a
• 25:45
  full.
• 25:45
  They
• 25:46
  didn't
• 25:46
  have
• 25:46
  an
• 25:46
  answer.
• 25:47
  And
• 25:48
  that's
• 25:48
  when
• 25:48
  I
• 25:48
  knew,
• 25:49
  like,
• 25:49
  I
• 25:49
  knew
• 25:50
  I
• 25:50
  was
• 25:50
  the
• 25:50
  sober
• 25:50
  herbalist.
• 25:51
  And,
• 25:51
  like,
• 25:52
  when
• 25:52
  I
• 25:53
  became
• 25:53
  that
• 25:53
  person
• 25:54
  or
• 25:54
  that
• 25:55
  brand,
• 25:57
  I
• 25:58
  had
• 25:58
  a
• 25:59
  question,
• 25:59
  right?
• 25:59
  And
• 26:00
  it's
• 26:00
  like,
• 26:00
  all
• 26:00
  good
• 26:01
  research
• 26:01
  projects
• 26:02
  begin
• 26:03
  with
• 26:03
  a
• 26:03
  question.
• 26:04
  And
• 26:04
  it
• 26:04
  was
• 26:04
  like,
• 26:05
  there
• 26:05
  you
• 26:05
  go,
• 26:05
  Drea.
• 26:07
  Now
• 26:07
  find
• 26:07
  the
• 26:07
  answers,
• 26:10
  you
• 26:10
  know,
• 26:10
  And
• 26:10
  I'm
• 26:11
  still
• 26:11
  doing
• 26:11
  that.
• 26:12
  And
• 26:12
  luckily,
• 26:13
  I
• 26:13
  have
• 26:13
  a
• 26:13
  very
• 26:14
  good
• 26:15
  education.
• 26:16
  I
• 26:17
  have
• 26:17
  a
• 26:17
  few
• 26:17
  degrees
• 26:18
  under
• 26:18
  my
• 26:18
  belt,
• 26:19
  including
• 26:20
  a
• 26:20
  master's
• 26:20
  degree
• 26:21
  in
• 26:21
  rhetoric
• 26:21
  and
• 26:22
  composition
• 26:23
  and
• 26:23
  an
• 26:23
  interdisciplinary
• 26:25
  degree
• 26:25
  in,
• 26:25
  you
• 26:26
  know,
• 26:26
  in
• 26:26
  the
• 26:26
  liberal
• 26:26
  arts,
• 26:27
  you
• 26:27
  know,
• 26:27
  from
• 26:28
  Hutchins
• 26:28
  School
• 26:30
  and.
• 26:31
  Oh,
• 26:31
  that's
• 26:31
  right,
• 26:31
  you're
• 26:32
  a
• 26:32
  Sonoma
• 26:32
  State
• 26:32
  alumni.
• 26:33
  Yeah.
• 26:34
  How
• 26:35
  cool.
• 26:36
  So
• 26:36
  I.
• 26:37
  I
• 26:37
  had
• 26:37
  a
• 26:38
  whole
• 26:38
  bevy
• 26:39
  of,
• 26:40
  you
• 26:41
  know,
• 26:41
  I'm
• 26:41
  a
• 26:41
  punk
• 26:42
  rocker,
• 26:42
  an
• 26:43
  artist.
• 26:44
  I
• 26:44
  had
• 26:44
  all
• 26:44
  these
• 26:45
  different
• 26:45
  aspects
• 26:46
  of
• 26:46
  my
• 26:46
  being
• 26:47
  in
• 26:47
  which
• 26:47
  to
• 26:48
  just
• 26:48
  sort
• 26:48
  of
• 26:48
  like,
• 26:49
  begin
• 26:49
  to
• 26:50
  pour
• 26:51
  into
• 26:51
  this
• 26:51
  question
• 26:52
  and
• 26:53
  this.
• 26:53
  This,
• 26:53
  like,
• 26:53
  experience
• 26:54
  of
• 26:54
  inquiry.
• 26:57
  Great.
• 26:57
  Do
• 26:57
  we
• 26:58
  have
• 26:58
  time
• 26:58
  for
• 26:58
  another
• 26:59
  question,
• 26:59
  Anthony?
• 27:00
  Well,
• 27:00
  we
• 27:01
  have
• 27:01
  to
• 27:01
  take
• 27:01
  a
• 27:01
  short
• 27:02
  break
• 27:03
  and
• 27:04
  we'll
• 27:04
  be
• 27:04
  right
• 27:04
  back.
• 27:05
  I'm
• 27:05
  Anthony
• 27:05
  Wright,
• 27:06
  and
• 27:06
  you
• 27:06
  can
• 27:06
  get
• 27:06
  a
• 27:07
  hold
• 27:07
  of
• 27:07
  me
• 27:08
  through
• 27:08
  my
• 27:08
  website,
• 27:09
  Theonot
• 27:10
  n
• 27:11
  A-U-T.com
• 27:12
  and
• 27:13
  Adam.
• 27:14
  Yes,
• 27:15
  you
• 27:15
  can
• 27:15
  contact
• 27:15
  me
• 27:16
  by
• 27:16
  my
• 27:16
  email
• 27:17
  deets.
• 27:17
  Adam
• 27:18
  gmail.com
• 27:19
  d,
• 27:19
  I,
• 27:19
  e
• 27:20
  t
• 27:20
  z.
• 27:20
  Adam,
• 27:21
  one
• 27:21
  word
• 27:22
  or
• 27:23
  the
• 27:23
  way
• 27:23
  between@substack.com
• 27:26
  has
• 27:26
  all
• 27:26
  my
• 27:26
  links
• 27:27
  and
• 27:27
  socials
• 27:27
  and
• 27:28
  work
• 27:28
  over
• 27:28
  there.
• 27:29
  Great.
• 27:29
  Andrea,
• 27:30
  how
• 27:31
  can
• 27:31
  people
• 27:31
  contact
• 27:31
  you?
• 27:32
  Soberherbalist.com
• 27:35
  that's
• 27:35
  it.
• 27:36
  All
• 27:36
  my
• 27:36
  stuff's
• 27:36
  on
• 27:37
  there.
• 27:38
  All
• 27:38
  right,
• 27:39
  well,
• 27:39
  we're
• 27:39
  going
• 27:39
  to
• 27:39
  take
• 27:39
  a
• 27:40
  short
• 27:40
  break
• 27:40
  and
• 27:40
  be
• 27:41
  right
• 27:41
  back,
• 27:41
  so
• 27:42
  stay
• 27:42
  tuned.
• 27:48
  Sam.