Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E165: Directing The Chosen And Following God's Will w/Dallas Jenkins

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E165: Directing The Chosen And Following God's Will w/Dallas Jenkins · The Lila Rose Show

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And I got to the last chapter and I am weeping.
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I can't read. I'm crying so hard.
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And my wife's like, let me read it.
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She takes the book, she starts crying.
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So we're just passing it back and forth to each other while we
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tried to recover. I closed the book and I said I
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have to make this movie. The acting, the casting, the
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directing, everything about it was so beautifully done.
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The script's amazing, so you created a classic.
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I think I had to be broken down and surrendered before I could
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get the chosen. And for the first time in my
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life, I truly grasped the notion that my job and our job is to
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make the best 5 cloves and two fish that we can to bring it to
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God. And if he deems it worthy of
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acceptance, the transaction's over.
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Welcome back to the Lila Rose podcast.
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Today we're going to be talking with the director, producer and
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creator of the international hit series The Chosen, Dallas
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Jenkins. Dallas has a new amazing film
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out in theaters now called The Best Christmas Pageant Ever.
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Spoiler alert, it is one of the cutest movies that I've ever
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seen and it is phenomenal. It's a movie that you can take
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your whole family to, your kids to and get into the Christmas
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spirit and it's about the greatest story ever told, Jesus
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Christ birth. This interviews a lot of fun
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because Dallas goes into both his rock bottom experiences
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before creating The Chosen and The best Christmas Pageant ever,
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as well as what goes on through his mind to idiate and visualize
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making such beautiful and amazing art.
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I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
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Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you're
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listening and make sure to give us five stars if you're
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listening on podcast app that helps the show reach more
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people. Dallas Jenkins, welcome to the
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podcast. I'm so glad to finally do this.
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Appreciate it. We have a lot of mutual friends
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and we haven't. We haven't, but we haven't
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actually done this before, so it's great to be here.
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It's great to have you on. Love your backdrop by the way.
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I see you already in the Christmas spirit.
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Well, the Christmas spirit begins hopefully year round, but
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for me, definitely the moment that we're past Halloween, we're
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we're going for it. Yes, well, I'm a huge fan of
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yours, Dallas. I'm a huge fan of you.
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I'm a huge fan of what you do. I'm a mega fan of the Chosen.
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What you've created is absolutely beautiful, amazing,
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life changing. It's touched me deeply.
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It's touched. I know millions of people.
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I'm very excited about your latest project, so thanks for
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coming on. It's really it's really exciting
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to get to talk to the creator of so many beautiful things.
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Oh, well, that's so, so great to hear.
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That's very kind of you. Yeah.
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I saw your conversation with Jonathan Rumi, who plays Jesus,
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but otherwise, I, I don't think I knew how big of a fan you
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were. So that's wonderful to hear.
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And I'm a fan of yours as well. So this is great.
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Awesome. Well, I'd love to start with the
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movie that's in theaters, right, because I just got to watch it
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and it was one of those tearjerker films.
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It was also very surprisingly adorable.
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And I'd love to hear about what was the impetus behind the
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creation of your newest film. And then got a lot more
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questions. So, but we'll start with the
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latest and the greatest. Well, my wife Amanda brought
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home this book, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever, almost
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20 years ago and said, you remember this book as a kid.
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And I had, I had read it as a kid in public school.
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And it's been a, it's been a play that's been performed all
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over the world. And that's why it's somewhat
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surprised me when I started reading it to my kids who were
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at the time were very young is I'm like, well, I don't remember
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it being this good, this witty, this smart, but also this
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Jesusy, like I read this in public school.
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How did, how did, how did she get away with this?
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Like it's, it's so much about in the context of Christmas in a,
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in a small town's big Christmas pageant and the notion that the
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six worst kids in the whole neighborhood that everyone's
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scared of. And that is they're mean and
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they're, they're, they're in poverty, they're outsiders.
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No one wants them around and they hijack the town's Christmas
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pageant and everyone of course thinks it's going to be
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horrible. And I don't think I'm giving
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anything away that the title of the movie is the best Christmas
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pageant ever. But seeing the birth of Christ
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through the eyes of these outsiders and those in poverty
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and how that brought them actually closer to the truth of
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the original authentic story then everyone else just wrecked
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me. And I got to the last chapter
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and I am weeping. I can't read.
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I'm crying so hard. And my wife's like, let me read
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it. She takes the book, she starts
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crying. So we're just passing it back
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and forth to each other while we tried to recover.
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And I closed the book and I said, I have to make this movie.
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The everything about it reflected my heart.
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It's about kids. It's about troubled kids.
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I'm an adoptive parent. I have most of my extended
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family are also adoptive parents.
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It's a Christmas. I'm a huge Christmas guy.
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The, the combination of humor and heart, the fact that it's a
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very profound spiritual and biblical message that's wrapped
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in a traditional Christmas classic story that doesn't feel
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like it's a, a, you know, it doesn't feel like you're going
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to, you know, it's like a church service being forced upon you.
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I just was like, I, I have to do this and I chased the rights for
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years. Every year I would bug the guys
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who own the rights to this, and they always had it set up at
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some big studio with some big director, but then it wasn't
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getting made. Maybe because every week I had a
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prompt on my calendar on my phone and computer to pray for
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Pageant. And I'd like to say I was
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praying. All these wonderful prayers of
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God's will be done and I'll just submit to it.
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But I was praying. Please don't let anyone else
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make this movie. Please save this movie for me
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because I just felt so strongly that he had called me to it and
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it wouldn't go away. And I think that's one of the
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reasons or one of the ways. I know I'm telling a long story
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here, but one of the ways we can tell the difference between
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maybe a dream or an idea that we have, that maybe it's just for
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ourselves. And when something really God
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has placed on you, a lot of times it's time.
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Time reveals that. And I just every week would be
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reminded to pray for it. Five years ago, the original
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studio lost the rights. The original rights holders had
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it back and they were looking at other opportunities.
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And I'm begging them and they call me back and they say we are
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going to go with a new studio and we're not, you know, we're
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going to go with someone else. And I thought it was over went
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and told my wife we were both pretty depressed.
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And I go into my office at home and I'm just so frustrated and
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upset and ping like taunting me. The reminder comes up, pray for
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pageant. And I went to delete it because
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I said I can't do this anymore. I can't pray for this.
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I can't get my hopes up. I can't beg for this anymore.
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And I went to delete it and I felt God just very clearly and
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strongly on my heart. Don't do that.
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And it's one of the handful of times in my life I felt that
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strong of a, of an impression. And I just went OK.
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And I was so frustrated. And I'm like, OK, God, I'll pray
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even though this doesn't mean anything.
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And I, you know, just please give me the right, you know, I'm
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just, I'm not in a good place. And my wife Amanda walks in and
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says, I was just praying. And I felt like God was putting
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it on my heart. This isn't over.
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And I was like, shoot, I didn't want to get my hopes up again.
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And a couple years ago, I reach out again, my annual bugging of
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the rights holders, and they said, what a coincidence.
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Just a week ago, the studio forgot to renew.
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We have the rights back. My mom called me a few days ago,
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asked me if I'd seen the show called The Chosen.
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And she I said, oh, that's funny.
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The creator of that show is always bugging me for the rights
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to the Christmas pageant. She says, are you crazy?
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He's the only one who can make this movie.
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You better give him the rights. And so he says, I have to listen
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to my mom. And so as I talk to you now, the
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fact that I'm able, I let us say that there's a movie called the
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best Christmas pageant ever. It's in theaters around the
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country. It's got a great critics score.
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Even the New York Times liked it, and people are showing up in
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the box office for it. Is a calling fulfilled.
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It really is a miracle. That's incredible on on so many
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levels, Dallas. And I hope I know people
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listening. I mean, it's like chills
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listening to that really your faithfulness and obedience to
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God in responding to an inspiration to create something
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really beautiful. And I want to get back to the
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origin story, but first, just for folks who may not have seen
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it yet, it is incredibly well done.
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I mean, I think about the IT was a Christmas story from the 50s
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or 60's. The little kid, you know, you'll
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shoot your eye out getting the the gun for Christmas.
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Super classic Christmas film. This is that caliber or better.
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The acting, the casting, the directing, everything about it
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was so beautifully done. The script's amazing.
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So you created a classic. And I think that's what the
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critics are saying. That's what the response is.
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So highly recommend everyone to go out and see it.
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I, I am curious in the casting process because these kids are
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phenomenal actors. I mean, they really carry the
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movie. It's they're adorable.
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They're, they're, they're so funny.
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What was it like finding all those amazing kids to be in this
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film and and working with them to get them to do such a
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phenomenal job? Can you believe that it's almost
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Challenge with Hallow. Yeah, I mean, it's not easy
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because you see hundreds of hours of auditions from kids all
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over the country. Because when you're looking for
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kid actors, you, you, you don't want to limit your your search
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because obviously most kid actors are not experienced.
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So by definition, every time that you're casting, you're
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going to find newcomers. And we were just looking for
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people who could inhabit both the humor and the, you know, the
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craziness of the story, but also the emotional journey and
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ultimately the spiritual climax of it.
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And that's a hard, hard line to walk.
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It's a hard line to walk as a filmmaker.
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It's also a hard line to walk as an actor.
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And so our adult actors, we got Judy Greer, who's extraordinary.
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Everyone, if you have, if you don't know her name, you know
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her face. She's amazing.
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Everyone loves her. And Pete Holmes is a classic
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stand up comic and a great comedian.
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And then a Lauren Graham from Gilmore Girls in Parenthood,
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who's amazing as the narrator and as also has a scene.
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We just got so fortunate. But the kids, if you don't get
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those kids right, everything else kind of falls to the
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wayside in a story like this. And they are just so great.
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And once we finally chose them and then then you got to direct
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them and you got, you know, a range of kids.
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And sometimes there's 1015, even 20 kids in a scene and it's a,
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it's a ADHD fest. And so you're trying to be a
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both a director and a parent and a teacher and a leader.
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So it was challenging, but it was worth it.
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They are truly beautiful in the film.
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What was the hardest scene to film and why?
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Well, the climax of the movie where we've actually put on the
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Christmas pageant for the first time is also the climax of the
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book. And it's what made me laugh and
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cry so hard. And so the pressure of getting
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that right, very difficult when you don't have the same tools
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and author of a book has where you can't get inside people's
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thoughts. You have to use all these other
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tools to communicate. So that wasn't easy.
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And then we took five days, 5 full days just to film that,
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that one sequence. And we had, you know, 100 and
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5200 extras at any one time. I'm, I'm managing all these
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kids, all these different angles, you know, that you also
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have to get emotional and all these different takes and all
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these different angles and the humor of it.
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It was just so challenging. But it was because of the I just
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really felt responsibility to give to audiences of this movie
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The same experience, the spiritual kind of transcendent
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moment that I had reading the book and remembering the
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Christmas story and seeing the Christmas story to the eyes of
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those in poverty. And when that little girl
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performs as Mary in the pageant, you know, I don't want to give
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too much away, but those were real tears.
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I mean, those just being, when you get to the moment of filming
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it and you're reliant on other people to execute it with your
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leadership, It's, it's, it's scary.
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But I just, I was blown away by their performances and by the
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music and how everything came together.
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The girl who played Mary in the movie.
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Her name in the movie is Imogen. Yeah, Imogen, and she plays.
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Yeah, she takes, she hijacks the role of Mary in the Christmas
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pageant. Yeah, she's extraordinary.
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She was phenomenal. I mean, they were all
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phenomenal. How old is she in real life?
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She's 12. I think she might be 13 by now.
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I'm not sure. She's too young to be that good.
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Amazing. She's, I mean the expression,
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the rain, she was amazing. What was the so so you had this
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seed five years ago, this sense of calling about creating this
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movie five years ago. Was this concurrent with
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starting the chosen? How did the how does the
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timeline sync up with the work on the chosen?
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Well, my desire to do the to, to, to do this movie was long
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before The Chosen even existed. Of course, before I'd even
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thought of it. It was when I started making The
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Chosen. I think the first two seasons
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were out when the rights holder saw it and said, OK, we do
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believe this would be in good hands in Dallas's hands.
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And the by that point, Lionsgate, the distributor was
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also interested in the book and interested in me as a filmmaker.
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And so I filmed this in between the filming of seasons four and
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five. And this is the only project
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that I would have or my wife would have allowed me to do
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because we, of course, I don't ever want the chosen and
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filmmaking to take away from my job as a husband and father.
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And filming is always a very challenging process.
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But this was the one project that we did this for.
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And we did our best to still maintain our family time and
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dynamic. But yeah, I was, I had, I had
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kind of, you know, the best Christmas pageant ever was still
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my dream project while I was making the Chosen, but I still
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had that weekly reminder to pray for it.
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But I didn't know that it would come in the middle of the
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Chosen. But God's timing is perfect.
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God's timing really is perfect. I think that your story is such
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a testimony to that because the Lord knew that the chosen was
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going to come first. And that would prepare you, at
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least in the eyes of the studio or the people that had the
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rights to the book, to give you the best Christmas pageant ever,
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to entrust it to you. So the greatest Christmas
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pageant ever That that that was the.
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Yeah. The best Christmas pageant ever.
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The best? And the greatest, but it's the
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best. Hopefully it's the greatest
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movie ever, but the. There you go.
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The best Christmas pageant ever. Yeah.
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I mean, I think I had to be broken down and surrendered
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before I could get the chosen. And I think that happened seven
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years ago when I had a big career failure, didn't know if I
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would ever make another movie or TV show.
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And I truly surrendered and thought, OK, I'm willing to give
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that up if that's what you want, which is very hard for me.
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And I think that's when God said, well, now you're ready for
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the chosen. And then after the first couple
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seasons of the chosen, I think God's like, right now you're
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ready for the best Christmas pageant ever.
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And with the success that's come from that movie and it's opening
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weekend. And the, the response that it's
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had has been really, really humbling.
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But I think only came because I was humbled and and broken and
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surrendered. And I think every revival in
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anyone's life is preceded by brokenness.
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And I had that. That's what happened to me.
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And I think it made me better equipped to to bring these
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stories to the world. Can you share about that?
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First, you mentioned, you know, bottom reaching out kind of rock
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bottom. That was before the Chosen.
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I also just have to say it was so powerful to hear from
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Jonathan about his similar story to yours in that before being
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cast as Jesus and the Chosen, he was also at his rock bottom
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financially, emotionally, you know, spiritually in many ways
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and just saying Jesus, I surrender everything.
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And then Jesus did this incredible thing in his life to
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to serve other people to mentally.
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And you have a parallel story. Can you share that?
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I are some of the audience may has, may have heard this before,
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but I know many haven't yet. And it's it's really powerful.
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Yeah, mine came first. I was before Jonathan.
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So I'll just, we'll always be able to say that that my I had
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my big broken, surrendered, humbled moment first, although
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I'm sure it doesn't sound very humbled and broken and
15:43
surrendered to to keep saying that.
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But it was back in 2017 and I had finally gotten what I had
15:49
sought in my career, which was some legitimacy.
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I'd made several films with varying degrees of success, but
15:54
they were all independent outside of the Hollywood system.
15:56
And I was really striving for that legitimacy and that
15:59
affirmation that comes from, you know, major Hollywood studios
16:03
are producers wanting to finance or produce or distribute my
16:06
projects. And I finally got that
16:08
opportunity in a movie called The Resurrection of Gavin Stone
16:11
was finally released to theaters around the country, produced by
16:14
and distributed by a couple of the biggest studios and
16:17
production companies in the world.
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And I'd finally gotten what I wanted for so long.
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And then the movie completely failed.
16:24
And they had all these high hopes for it and it tested
16:27
really well. And then it just completely
16:28
bombed. And I'm home alone with my wife.
16:30
What does that mean by the way, just for context for those not
16:32
in the space, like you put in X amount of money and then it like
16:35
didn't make any. Can you just share any color to
16:38
what it means and that it bombed?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happy to go back to that place.
16:43
Sorry. Tell us about your worst moment.
16:45
More, please. Yeah.
16:46
Yeah. We hear you.
16:48
We hear you were devastated. But tell us why.
16:49
What? Really.
16:51
Really bad was it? Yeah, exactly.
16:53
Well, when you see a movie's box office results, so for example,
16:59
the opening weekend of the best Christmas Pageant ever was $11
17:02
million, right Now, you got to remember that sounds like a lot.
17:05
And it is. And it was exceeded
17:06
expectations. It was great.
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But the the studio that distributes the movie gets half
17:11
of that. You know, the theaters take half
17:13
the the studios take the other half.
17:15
And then the studios have to get their production costs and their
17:18
marketing costs repaid before anyone else starts sharing in
17:21
any profits, if there are any. So when you see some, there are
17:25
sometimes a movie will come out and it'll it'll do $50 million
17:28
in the box office, which for the best Christmas pageant ever
17:30
would would be huge. I hope we reached that number.
17:34
But if the movie cost 100 million to make and the studio
17:38
is only getting 25,000,000 of the box office, you can imagine
17:42
what that's like. There's a big gap.
17:43
And then there's the marketing spend that they did.
17:45
So for the resurrection to Gavin Stone, the budget was low.
17:49
You know, it was a $1.5 million production budget, which is
17:52
super low. So you'd think that the chances
17:55
of making your money back are good.
17:57
Well, then they spent six or seven $8 million on marketing.
18:01
So then when the opening weekend comes and it did, I think the, I
18:04
think the opening weekend number was like 1.41 point 5 million.
18:09
Well, that's only half of that is going to go to the studio.
18:14
The second weekend it drops even more.
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And so the final box office total was $2.3 million for the
18:20
for, for resurrection of Gavin Stone.
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And so when they've spent, you know, eight, $9 million and they
18:26
only get half of the box office and then that means that the DVD
18:29
sales and the streaming numbers are going to be low as well.
18:32
So the, the number for opening weekend was lower than their
18:35
lowest projection. And so within just a couple
18:38
hours, we knew on Friday afternoon that it was going to
18:41
be a bomb. And so I'm at my low point with
18:43
my wife at home alone going, God had done so many things to get
18:47
us to this point. It was so clear.
18:50
And I, I, I knew God had called me to this.
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Well, he's not the author of failure.
18:54
So this failure means maybe it wasn't God.
18:57
Maybe I'd misread the tea leaves.
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Maybe I had misheard what I thought was my calling, but was
19:02
actually just maybe my own flesh and my own desires.
19:06
And God put it on my wife's heart very explicitly, very
19:11
clearly, not an audible voice, but almost as though it was 1.
19:15
Read the story of the Feeding the 5000.
19:18
And so together we open up our Bibles and we we read that story
19:21
and we noticed something that we hadn't really maybe made sense
19:25
of in the past, even though we'd heard the story 100 times, which
19:27
is that when the disciples came to Jesus and said, people are
19:32
hungry, the thousands of people that you're talking to, they're
19:34
starving. We need to send them home.
19:36
And Jesus says, oh, we can't send them home.
19:39
They're so hungry, they'll faint along the way.
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So what does that tell you? Means he knew that they were
19:45
hungry and desperate. And when you think about it, it
19:47
was his fault. He's the one who'd been talking
19:50
for three days. He brought them to that place of
19:52
hunger and desperation. He's not dumb.
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He he's, he's the God of the universe.
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He's preaching to them. He knows exactly how hungry
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they're getting, and he keeps talking.
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And so when you realize, OK, not only does God sometimes allow
20:53
our hunger or our desperation, and yes, sometimes our
20:57
suffering, and many times he's responsible for it.
21:00
Now, again, I don't believe that God, you know, sets out to
21:03
create bad things to happen to people, obviously, but many
21:06
times he allows it or might even steer us towards it because he
21:10
has something important to for us to learn.
21:13
And in this case, it was very clear that we were thinking, all
21:16
right, God has brought us here to this place of hunger and
21:18
desperation. That doesn't mean he's absent
21:21
the fact that we failed. And so that night we thought
21:24
maybe that meant the numbers were going to magically just,
21:26
you know, turn around and God was going to feed the 5000 and
21:29
multiply our, you know, these really small loaves and fish.
21:32
That didn't happen. And so we were wondering, why
21:35
did God put us in this story? What are we supposed to learn?
21:37
All right, we, we've got the point that he's in this or that
21:41
at least we don't know that he's not meaning he could be
21:44
responsible for this hunger that we're in.
21:46
Well, that night at 4:00 in the morning, I'm writing a big 15
21:48
page memo outlining everything that went wrong and how I can
21:52
learn from this. And I'm going to solve this
21:54
problem. I'm going to make sure this
21:55
never happens again. I'm a problem solver, I'm a
21:57
doer, I'm an accomplisher and I'm working on this.
22:00
And Bing pops up on my computer, a Facebook message from someone
22:04
I've never met. And he doesn't say hi, doesn't
22:07
say hello, just says, remember, your job is not to feed the
22:10
5000. It's only to provide the loaves
22:12
and fish. And I'm like, did was my
22:15
computer recording what my wife and I talked about today?
22:17
Like who did I tell? Like how does he know that?
22:19
I'm trying to figure out what the loaves and fish story means
22:22
in my life? And so I just responded with,
22:25
what are you doing up at 4:00 in the morning?
22:27
And he said, well, I'm in the I'm on, I'm in Romania right
22:29
now. I'm in a different time zone.
22:31
And I heard about your movie. And so I just wanted to say
22:33
that. And I said, can I just ask why
22:35
you said that to me? And he goes, Oh, that wasn't me.
22:38
God told me to tell you that and he had had a similar experience
22:42
to my wife. We got to just put it on his
22:43
heart, tell Dallas it's not his job to feed the 5000 rich and he
22:46
didn't want to because he's like, that's a condescending
22:48
thing to someone to say to someone I barely know.
22:50
I've only talked to them on Facebook a couple times and God
22:53
just put it on his heart. So he sent it to me and it
22:55
changed my life because for the first time in my life, I truly
22:59
grasp the notion that my job and our job is to make the best 5
23:03
loaves and two fish that we can to bring it to God.
23:06
And if he deems it worthy of acceptance, the transactions
23:08
over whether or not he feeds 5000 with it is up to him and
23:11
not us. And when you get to that point
23:13
in your life where you can truly be OK with that, whatever your
23:16
loaves and fish are going to be, you're OK with it.
23:18
If they, if he doesn't, whatever the results are, you don't take
23:22
responsibility for if you're in his will.
23:25
That was a life changing knowledge for me.
23:27
And it becomes a superpower because you, you stop caring
23:30
what other people think. It leads you to make crazy
23:33
decisions like crowdfunding ATV show about Jesus and knowing
23:39
that it probably won't work. And then it exceeds your
23:41
expectations. And, and in a, based on a short
23:43
film I did for my church's Christmas Eve service about the
23:46
birth of Christ and the perspective of the shepherds.
23:48
I mean, all these things that have led to this conversation.
23:51
We're, we're preceded by brokenness and surrender and,
23:55
and, and humility. And I, I hope that if you and I
23:58
talk in 5-7 years about other Bible projects that I'm doing or
24:02
whatever, that that that message never changes and that my
24:05
posture never changes. I'm curious in in what you're
24:08
describing about the creation of the resurrection of Gavin Stone
24:11
and then that rock bottom kind of experience you had before
24:15
creating the chosen, which has just been this global
24:17
phenomenon. If you felt called by God
24:20
specifically to do the resurrection and that was part
24:23
of the confusion for you, like why isn't this more successful?
24:26
But God was teaching you to be faithful, even if this thing
24:29
that he wants you to do reaches maybe one person.
24:31
I mean, it reached a lot more than one person, obviously.
24:33
Is that was that the lesson for you?
24:36
Well, absolutely. Because when I, when the movie
24:39
failed, I assumed then, well, I guess I was wrong.
24:43
He didn't call me to this. But I then had to reflect back
24:46
on all the things that had happened that were so clearly
24:49
God driven. Doors that had closed at the
24:52
right time, windows that had opened at the right time.
24:54
The fact that I couldn't get that story out of my mind when I
24:57
first heard it, the resurrection of Gavin Stone, the fact that it
25:00
really did feel all while I was doing it, like I was in my
25:03
wheelhouse. I'm very proud of the message of
25:06
the film and I'm proud of the film.
25:07
I mean, the film, I, I'm, I'm, I'm proud to have made it.
25:09
And a lot of people have been impacted by it.
25:11
And, and I think it's a decent film.
25:14
And yet the results don't impact.
25:19
You shouldn't impact whether or not you truly felt called to
25:22
something. So there are multiple things
25:24
that can that can be evidence of whether you were called or
25:28
whether it was just a dream you had because you wanted to do
25:30
something. Time often times is one of the
25:33
factors if if God just doesn't let it, like when you're taking
25:36
a shower, when you're well, go on a walk, it just keeps coming
25:39
to you and you keep, you know, you keep feeling this depth of
25:42
meaning about it that that's one sign a mentor in your life that
25:46
you can maybe go to and say, this is what I'm feeling.
25:48
What do you think? You know, sometimes God can give
25:50
them wisdom. Of course, God's word is, is
25:52
above all, but God's word doesn't always speak to
25:56
specifically Dallas Jenkins 2020, you know, or whatever year
25:59
I'm dealing with something. So sometimes you have to find in
26:03
in God's word what the general principle is that applies to
26:06
your situation and draw from that prayer, obviously, But even
26:09
sometimes in prayer, you go, you know, if you're a human being
26:12
and and you know, you're like, all right, I feel like God's
26:15
giving me something, but I don't know if it's God or me.
26:17
And I'm sure we've been wrong at times.
26:18
I'm sure we have we have thought something was from God, but
26:22
really it was our flesh. That's the faith life.
26:24
That's the journey that's wrestling with principalities
26:27
and powers of this world, right. And so ultimately what you have
26:33
to realize is that the the positive or negative results of
26:37
the initiative are not the gauge as to whether or not God called
26:40
you to it. Because God may sometimes call
26:42
you to something that isn't about the success of the results
26:46
of, you know, by the world's definition, but it's something
26:49
he had specifically for you. And so we sometimes measure our
26:53
relationship with God, our ministry, our job, whatever, by
26:56
the numbers, by the success. I'm sure you, you, you have a
26:59
team of people who are analyzing the number of downloads of each
27:02
podcast episode. And it's hard for you to kind of
27:05
remember, I'm not doing this for the numbers.
27:07
And it's hard to remember that when you have a job, it's your
27:10
full time job and you have a staff and success in the world
27:13
is measured by those numbers. But when you can get to that
27:17
place where you just are focused on that North star of I'm
27:20
pleasing God, I want to be in his will.
27:22
I want to give to the world what he's given to me and I can be OK
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mom and a baby in need. I think about what Mother Teresa
28:21
said, which is that God's not calling us to be successful.
28:24
He's calling us to be faithful. And you know, the truest
28:28
fidelity is when you don't see the results.
28:30
You don't get to see the fruit immediately and maybe even take
28:34
the hits, or you feel humiliated in the worldly sense, and you
28:37
still stick with it, you still keep trying.
28:40
Have you always felt a call to be a filmmaker?
28:43
And when did you first feel that call and how did you first
28:46
respond to it? Yeah, back in high school, I was
28:50
a freshman and my dad had just recently introduced me to great
28:54
films. I grew up in a fairly protected
28:56
environment, which I'm grateful for.
28:58
My parents, you know, in my formative years, really, you
29:01
know, I was only, you know, whatever media I was watching
29:04
was Saturday morning cartoons and, you know, faith-based or
29:08
family, you know, movies. And then I get to about 8th
29:11
grade and my dad's like, all right, now it's time for you to
29:13
watch some of the classics, you know, so I'm watching The
29:15
Godfather and, and Bonnie and Clyde and all these great
29:18
movies. And, and my freshman year of
29:20
high school, I watched the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with
29:25
Jack Nicholson. And I'm watching, there's a
29:28
scene in that movie where I, I got so inspired and so excited
29:31
and so emotional. I'm like standing up off the
29:33
couch. I'm just so into the scene.
29:35
I remember thinking, whatever that is, you know, whatever it
29:38
is to tell that story to result in me reacting this way.
29:42
I want to do that. And I thought, you know, what?
29:45
Wouldn't it be cool to do that with stories of faith, stories
29:48
of, of, of, of the God experience of the Christian
29:51
experience? Because I don't see that
29:52
anywhere other than typically through crappy movies.
29:56
Forgive my, my, my language there, but I mean, just movies
29:59
that just aren't very good that are cheesy or whatever.
30:01
And it's just they feel like church basement films and not
30:04
all of them. Of course there were, but back
30:06
when I was growing up, there was so few that were watchable.
30:08
This is even before Veggie Tales, right?
30:10
And so, but I, I knew that's what I wanted to do.
30:14
And so that's how I started really digging into that and
30:17
being a storyteller. And in college, I pursued it and
30:20
it just, it just never, it just became so clear that there was
30:23
nothing else that I was being called to do.
30:25
And so that's, that's where it started.
30:27
And then you know, what got me ultimately to to talking to you
30:30
about the chosen and best Christmas pageant ever is its
30:31
own long, long tail. But but that's where it, that's
30:35
where it began for sure. So was there a already any kind
30:38
of ecosystem that you were being raised in besides obviously your
30:41
faith and a great family? But in terms of other film
30:44
makers that you knew or raised, you know, there's a lot of the
30:47
the the typical story of like children raised in Hollywood or
30:50
raised by actor parents. Easier for them to be actors,
30:53
easier for them to be film makers.
30:55
How did you start from the inspiration of this looks
30:58
amazing. This moved me.
31:00
I want to move people using this art form to actually get getting
31:03
to do it yourself. Yeah, I didn't have any kind of
31:06
ecosystem or infrastructure to plug into and certainly not in
31:08
the faith world. I mean, in the faith world,
31:09
there were, back then, there were few Christian colleges that
31:12
had filmmaking majors or opportunities to, to to explore
31:17
this. You know, you'd see other
31:19
independent film makers that would just do these super low
31:22
budget movies that took off and and then that would get them
31:25
more money or more opportunities.
31:27
And so that's kind of what I was hoping to do, but I didn't know
31:30
how. And so ironically enough, when I
31:33
graduated from high school or from college, by that point, the
31:37
left behind books had gotten to be very successful.
31:40
And my dad wrote them. And so regardless of your
31:42
feelings about the left behind books, they were very
31:45
successful. And there was a production
31:46
company out of Louisville, KY, that had helped their own, that
31:49
had felt their own calling to, to make these movies.
31:52
And so they got the rights from my dad and I went to work for
31:54
this company as a, as a secretary, just, you know, low
31:57
level minimum wage, kind of, you know, making mail runs and
32:02
picking up packages and giving notes to scripts.
32:04
You weren't like, dad, come on, this is your your book.
32:07
Give me the give me a roll. But were you interested in
32:09
acting or anything? Or you're like, I'm happy to
32:10
push paper for for now. Well, no, I was happy to push
32:14
paper. I mean, I had been an actor in
32:15
high school and some in college, but it was I very much, I had a
32:18
focus on directing. And so, you know, my dad, to his
32:22
credit, you know, didn't push any influence on this production
32:26
company. I mean, just he told him I was
32:28
interested in film. And so they brought me in as as
32:30
a low level secretary and he was happy for me to pay my dues and
32:33
not exert any influence there. About 3-4 years into it, they
32:37
were about to make the movie and it was just coming out a little
32:41
differently than I think my dad and I had expected or hoped.
32:43
And, and so we started our own company and and my dad had the
32:47
means to get me started, you know, not huge budgets, but like
32:51
had enough means from the sales of his books to to at least help
32:54
me get me started. And so we did independent
32:56
projects. You know, my first movie was 25
32:58
years old. I produced it.
32:59
I didn't direct it and learned on the fly, you know, and I
33:02
worked at found a couple people who were in the business and
33:04
then you bring them on to help you.
33:05
And then you hire the director and you have to hire the cast
33:08
And and sometimes ignorance is bliss because you're, you're
33:11
breaking rules that you didn't even know existed.
33:12
And that can be a good thing. And sometimes you learn, you
33:16
know what? Hollywood has figured some
33:17
things out. I need to plug into that system
33:19
a little bit more. And so overtime, you just kind
33:21
of build. But yeah, I was in many ways I
33:23
did. I obviously got a benefit from
33:25
my dad having the means to be able to help me get going and to
33:28
get also to get a low level job at a company.
33:31
Sometimes those are even difficult to do.
33:34
But I worked my way up there and got a lot of experience and
33:36
ultimately was able to to to execute some of what I felt God
33:39
calling me to. What goes on inside of your mind
33:43
when you are having this moment, this visualization?
33:46
I mean, you had it when you read the best Christmas pageant ever.
33:49
You cried. You visualize this should this
33:52
would be an amazing film. I mean, it sounds like you've
33:54
had that so many times. And of course you've had that
33:57
with the chosen and brought these scenes that you know are
34:00
2000 years old. Literally billions of people
34:04
have meditated upon them, but you brought them to life in this
34:07
incredibly powerful way. What goes on in your mind as a
34:11
director and as a writer and a producer when you're visualizing
34:16
this? And then what does that
34:18
translation process look like? This is maybe a huge question,
34:20
but I'm very curious. What does that translation
34:22
process look like for you to bring that into life?
34:27
Well, that's the job, right? I mean, is, is I, my Co writers
34:31
and I come up with the ideas primarily rooted in scripture
34:35
first. We always take these stories.
34:38
That's where we start, and then we try to work our way backwards
34:40
to develop a plausible back story that's informed by
34:44
history, by culture, by other biblical capital T truths.
34:47
So even if we don't have a fact, we want it to still be true
34:51
capital T right, To accurately reflect the character and and
34:56
intentions of Jesus in the Gospels and of the entire Bible.
35:00
It's a sacred responsibility, especially, as you know, I'm
35:04
sure there's someone listening now, if they've gotten this far,
35:06
who's uncomfortable with seeing anything portrayed that's not
35:09
directly from Scripture. And so we take that seriously
35:12
and we understand it. But we do believe that there's
35:15
freedom to have a holy imagination and to try to, as
35:18
long as we're not contradicting the character of God, which is,
35:20
of course, debatable. That's why we've got different
35:23
denominations and different faith traditions.
35:27
But the, the, the challenge becomes, OK, so now I've got a
35:30
picture in my mind of how I want this to look, how I want it to
35:33
feel, what we're trying to say, what we're hoping people take
35:36
from this about God. And just also just from a
35:38
strictly entertaining perspective, we want to make
35:40
sure it's good television. But then you get to the set and
35:43
now you are, you're, you're responsible to lead and you're
35:48
responsible to share your vision and to communicate well.
35:50
But ultimately you are in the hands of many other people now
35:53
too. The cast, the hair and makeup
35:56
folks, the costumer, the production designer, the
36:00
cinematographer, the sound engineer, they are all doing,
36:05
they're all trying to execute your vision, but they're all
36:09
experts in their field in a way that I'm not.
36:11
I can't do what they do. They have to do it.
36:14
And so hopefully I'm a good conductor of the orchestra, but
36:18
I now I'm relying on their skills, their experience, their
36:21
background, and sometimes they're going to be smarter than
36:23
I am, even in an idea that I had myself.
36:26
They're going to point out to me why that can't be done and why
36:28
this might be better. And if I'm surrounded by good
36:31
people and if I'm humble enough, which I am, to recognize that I
36:34
am not the smartest guy in the room every time.
36:36
There are times when I am, there are times when only I can make a
36:39
certain decision, but there are other times where I've got to
36:41
rely on others. And so that's where my job is,
36:44
to be the immune system for the film, The I'm protecting the
36:48
film from my ego or anyone else's ego getting in the way or
36:52
from them overtaking the other departments, one up one
36:55
department overtaking the other departments in terms of
36:57
influence. I just can't let that happen.
36:59
And so that's ultimately my job. And then to trust the Lord that
37:02
because this project is being done for Him and it's intended
37:05
to glorify and put a spotlight on His goodness, I trust and
37:11
hope that He will protect me in that process.
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order. How do you identify?
38:10
These are incredibly important roles.
38:13
Obviously the actors are incredibly important, but a Co
38:16
writer is incredibly important. You know, everything from the
38:19
costume designer. These little things, especially
38:21
for someone like yourself, you have this vision.
38:23
They're all such important pieces.
38:26
How do you go about identifying the people to work with to, to
38:30
in a place where you're comfortable that this is someone
38:32
you can trust to not just execute on your vision, but
38:35
potentially innovate on your vision even more than what your
38:38
vision might have been to start with?
38:40
So how do you find, how do you find people that you can trust
38:43
and how do you vet them? How do you identify them?
38:45
Yeah, that's a great question. So you interview multiple people
38:48
for each role, each department head.
38:50
So that's the key hair and makeup person, the key
38:54
cinematographer, production designer.
38:57
And, and that's the first thing is of course, they have to have
38:59
the skill set they have to have, they have to have the, the
39:03
talent and the creativity that, that I have to have seen
39:07
somewhere else. This is not a show that we can
39:09
have a first timer in, in a significant, in a leadership
39:13
position. Now there's first timers, of
39:14
course, who come on board, but in the leadership position,
39:18
someone has to have kind of earned their stripes and work
39:20
their way up to that and have experience that I can, I can
39:24
vet. Then, of course, they have to be
39:27
willing to defer to my ultimate vision while at the same time be
39:32
strong enough to push for theirs.
39:35
And then, 'cause I always say to them, the only thing that will
39:37
make me mad, there are two things that'll make me mad.
39:39
One is if you didn't say something that you felt strongly
39:43
about and that I didn't have an opportunity to be wrong and to
39:47
learn from you and to see your idea as better than mine.
39:50
So don't ever get to the point where I did something and you're
39:53
thinking, well, I would have done it a different way.
39:55
I want to hear from you so that that will upset me if I'm
39:58
surprised by the fact that it's too late to do what you might
40:01
have suggested. Even if it was a better idea
40:03
than mine. And then the second thing is, is
40:06
if ultimately I listen to you and I hear you and I consider
40:10
it, but if I do overrule it and I do do something maybe
40:14
differently than you might have no pouting.
40:17
No, you know, we, we, we're both going to make mistakes.
40:21
So I'm not going to ever yell at you for making a mistake.
40:25
I might be upset at times if it's a mistake of not, not of,
40:30
of trying and failing. But if you, you know, if it's
40:32
laziness or if it's taking something for granted or if
40:35
whatever it is, that might upset me.
40:37
But I'm never going to be upset for you trying to do something
40:39
great and it just doesn't quite work out.
40:41
So we're gonna we're doing this together as long as you don't
40:43
pout if I make a mistake or if I don't maybe take one of your
40:46
ideas. So that's a key thing.
40:48
And then, you know, some people will ask, well, what about
40:50
Christians? You hire Christians, you have
40:51
people on your set that are Christians or not.
40:54
That is probably, I don't know where it ranks on my on my, you
40:59
know, list, but it's pretty low because a, if I hire someone
41:04
because of their faith and not because of their skill, then
41:07
yeah, we can have a a wonderful kumbaya session of where we're
41:11
all trying to tell, you know, to have the great same message, but
41:14
you're not actually a good production designer or not
41:16
actually a good costumer or you're not as good as this other
41:19
person. I think we would all agree that
41:20
we wouldn't want to go into a surgeon and as we're about to
41:24
get surgery going now, wait a minute, do you, you know, can
41:26
you give me the four spiritual laws from the gospels or can
41:29
you? And they go, well, no, but
41:32
they're a great surgeon. I think you're going to really
41:34
want them to just do a good job. And then hopefully, you know,
41:38
the course of building a relationship.
41:39
Maybe you can give them a chance to hear the gospel.
41:42
But ultimately, I hope that my cast and crew, and I know that
41:47
they are, is seeing these stories and seeing me live out
41:50
the hands and feet of Jesus and love unconditionally and, and
41:53
have a servant's heart. But ultimately, I don't have a
41:55
religious litmus test for who's going to be on my set.
41:58
If anything, I'm happy when there's a diversity of thought
42:01
because then that gives us a chance to just maybe show them a
42:05
side of, of life and a side of, of, of, of God that maybe they
42:09
haven't seen before on a project that they've never been part of
42:12
before. So it's a long and and important
42:15
process, but ultimately God has brought everyone on my set to me
42:20
for such a time as this and it's been a great experience.
42:23
We are so desperately in need of amazing Christian in its ethos
42:28
content out there, especially in the feature length film TV
42:32
world. And you've done it, Dallas.
42:35
I mean, that's what's so special about what you're doing the best
42:38
Christmas pageant ever. And then of course, with the
42:40
chosen, you're you're you're, you're out there.
42:42
You are the leader. You're doing that for not just
42:45
Christians, but for everyone. And I want to just thank you so
42:48
much for that, what you're sharing about the background of
42:51
how you went into it and the struggles you've had.
42:54
I think it's really important because there's a lot of
42:56
creators or people who feel called to content creation, but
43:00
there's all kinds of, you know, missteps they can take or
43:03
disappointments or struggles that they may be having in the
43:07
process. I am really curious if you're
43:09
willing to share one of the maybe the hardest things that
43:12
you've had to deal with as a director or as a producer in
43:17
basically fighting for a great product, but then dealing with
43:21
the dynamics that will come where maybe in the Christian
43:24
space, it's like, we'll just be nice.
43:25
I don't know if this is resonating, but it's like just
43:28
be nice. Just, you know, sometimes I
43:30
guess having the high high, high standards and maybe the faith
43:34
world, that can maybe be a kind of a conflict because you're
43:36
dealing with people that they want to be appreciated for
43:39
themselves and see them for their AT and you're like, no,
43:41
this is a business in terms of creating great art.
43:44
So we need to have these high standards.
43:45
I don't know if there's something you can share about a
43:48
way you've navigated that and kept your your product at such
43:52
high quality. The content that you're
43:54
creating, these films that you're creating, the quality is
43:56
so wonderful. The heart is there.
43:58
How have you done that, and what's a challenge you've
44:01
overcome to accomplish that? Well, thank you for all of that.
44:05
It's very kind. And also it's very important to
44:08
navigate that. And so I would say that no more
44:13
than no matter what in any job or career calling that you have
44:18
or ministry calling or whatever that five and two principle, the
44:21
notion that it is not your job to feed the 5000.
44:24
It is to provide the loaves and fish.
44:26
Now that comes with the fact that we do want to make the best
44:30
loaves and fish that we can. Jesus could have just had loaves
44:33
and fish magically appear in the lapse of everyone in that field.
44:37
And yet he said I need food. We know does someone someone
44:40
bring me food? He wants us to be part of the
44:43
process. And so part of making good
44:45
loaves and fish, at the risk of sounding cheesy, is you know,
44:49
you do. There's also ingredients that
44:51
you want to follow. You want to be a good Baker, you
44:52
want to be a good fisherman. And so part of that involves, I
44:56
don't think it's in conflict to to demand excellence and to work
45:00
hard and to have a set that is professional.
45:02
And that that means sometimes people are going to have to be
45:05
corrected and sometimes for them to get the message, they're
45:07
going to have to be corrected with some intensity.
45:09
It's like parenting. I don't think that that a, a
45:13
firm rebuke of my child is in conflict at all with, with godly
45:19
living and Christian living and, and, and God's heart.
45:22
He firmly rebukes us many times in Scripture and in life today.
45:26
So I don't believe that having a high standard and fighting for
45:29
excellence and making sure that the greatest story ever told is
45:34
is told well through the most influential medium ever
45:37
developed and that's media. I think that that's not in
45:40
conflict. And so if you come on our set,
45:43
it won't, you know, there will be times and you'll see of
45:45
course in my behavior as a believer in Christ, hopefully I
45:49
am living out the hands and feet of Jesus and hopefully I am
45:51
living a Christ like life as much as possible.
45:53
But of course I'm a Sinner. Of course I'm a flawed human
45:55
being. And that's true of everyone on
45:57
our set, Christian or not. Hopefully you are seeing a
45:59
Christ like attitude and behavior and setting.
46:03
That said, it is a professional set.
46:05
You will not see us in a prayer circle other than, you know, if,
46:09
if a few of us decide to do that on our own, we're doing that.
46:11
But there is not corporate required church like, you know,
46:16
structure that takes place on our set.
46:18
It's a business and it's a professional business.
46:20
And most of our cast and crew are not traditional churchgoers,
46:24
or at least, you know, probably a little bit more than half of
46:26
them aren't. So I don't think it's any more
46:29
challenging than any other job that anyone has.
46:34
You know, obviously in this business, there's fewer
46:36
Christians in, in the media space then then maybe in other
46:40
spaces for various reasons. But I do believe that's even
46:44
more reason to be called to it and to be salt and light.
46:46
What's your advice for aspiring film makers, actors, people who
46:50
feel called to the media space to create amazing content for
46:53
God? Yeah, I mean, besides the the
46:56
the truth that I'll just keep pounding is the the five and two
46:58
principle. But I think also, you know, part
47:01
of that make being as concentrating as being as good
47:04
as you can be truly learn, truly be curious.
47:06
Never stop being curious. Pursue every opportunity to
47:10
learn. There's no job or opportunity or
47:12
class that should be beneath you as you're trying to be good at
47:15
this. Maybe instead of trying to focus
47:18
on success, try to focus on quality first and perhaps
47:21
success will come. And if it never does, then maybe
47:23
that is something that, you know, maybe should just be a
47:26
hobby or maybe a second job and not your primary occupation.
47:29
Who knows? But I would also say don't limit
47:32
yourself to only faith-based projects or only non faith-based
47:37
projects. In fact, there was a time in my
47:39
career where I didn't want to do faith-based projects because it
47:41
wasn't very cool. And, and God called me to tell
47:44
stories of his people and of of of himself.
47:47
And so I think ruling out faith-based options, some people
47:52
want to do because they don't want to be tagged and, and, and,
47:56
and relegated to just the one category.
47:58
Then there's other folks who are like, why don't want my kid
48:00
doing anything that's not about God or I don't want to ever do
48:04
anything that doesn't point people to him.
48:05
Well, I would argue that you got to remember that sometimes
48:09
there's a movie or a, or, or ATV show or a piece of media,
48:13
they're going to hire people and there's going to be someone in
48:15
that position. Why not have it be you?
48:17
Why not have it be someone who can be salt and light in a, in
48:20
an area that's very dark? Why not think of yourself as a
48:23
potential of salt and light of influence in a place that rarely
48:27
has that? Now, of course, you never want
48:28
to do something that's going to contradict the character of God,
48:32
but someone has to play the part of Judas, you know, in a, in a,
48:35
in a show. And that's that character
48:37
obviously is doing awful things and even demonic things and,
48:42
and, and, and an actor has to inhibit that.
48:44
So don't limit yourself to only the the roles that are that are
48:48
you know that that are Christians.
48:49
You know you may have an opportunity to be salt light in
48:51
an area that doesn't normally get.
48:52
That really good. I especially love that you know,
48:56
work hard at it, try hard at it if it's not really succeeding
48:58
over time, you know, maybe pray about is this what God is
49:01
calling me to do because there is going to be momentum that God
49:04
will give a creator to make it have longevity right.
49:08
And then also love the advice about do both faith-based films
49:11
and not like mix it up, try different things and keep it
49:14
excellent. You know, make excellence your
49:16
aim, and I think that's a a call for all Christians and any kind
49:18
of work that they do, but especially needed in the arts.
49:22
What was your favorite scene of the best Christmas pageant ever,
49:26
Dallas? And then what impact do you hope
49:29
the movie will have on the people that are going to see it?
49:33
Well, thank you for that because that question, the answer is the
49:37
same. You know, the the scene from the
49:39
end of the book that made me weep and made me so moved and
49:43
seeing Jesus through the eyes of people in poverty, people in
49:47
need, people who haven't heard the story before and how they
49:51
can actually bring something to us.
49:53
Those of us who've heard the story and believe the story,
49:55
maybe we can learn something or see something new that we hadn't
49:58
considered before. And that scene where that takes
50:01
place in the best Christmas pageant while they're performing
50:03
it is so every time I watch it, it's like every time I read it,
50:09
it moves me. It makes me kind of renewed in
50:13
my passion for the birth of Christ and in my calling from
50:17
God to share that message. The last 6 words of the movie
50:20
are the same last 6 words of the book.
50:23
Unto you a child is born. And that's what I hope people
50:25
walk away with. I hope people come away going a
50:28
do I believe that? That that for me unto me a child
50:32
was born. A child came as a as a an
50:35
innocent suffering servant, not as a conquering king.
50:39
Do I believe that? And if I do, can I live that
50:42
out? What does that look like?
50:43
Will I love the least of these? Will I give unconditionally?
50:46
Will I be willing to sacrifice, sacrifice myself and surrender
50:49
maybe some of my own fleshly desires in order to bring light
50:53
to a world that that needs it? And so that's what I'm hoping
50:57
people could walk away with. And that's what we're hearing
50:59
from people who've seen it, is that they feel not only do they
51:02
enjoy the film, but that they they feel different.
51:04
They feel like they want to be the hands and feet of Jesus.
51:07
And I love that it's a family film, that it's something that
51:10
people can see. It's so rare to find an
51:12
excellent, you know, truly classic heart moving film.
51:16
And that's what this video movie is.
51:19
And it's for the whole family. You can take your kids and enjoy
51:22
it and it's going to be great for everybody.
51:24
Yeah. Thank you so much.
51:25
Yeah, appreciate. That Dallas, I, I know that
51:28
you're in the middle of releasing this great movie.
51:31
What is next for you? I am curious, I know there's
51:33
future seasons of The Chosen and there's future releases of the
51:37
Chosen. I am just curious if there's
51:39
anything else you can share about what God is maybe stirring
51:42
in you to do in the arts for for faith and for his people and to
51:46
share the gospel. Anything else you can share with
51:48
us? Yeah, so right now we are
51:52
putting the finishing touches, which will take over the next
51:54
couple months on season 5 that we filmed earlier this year and
51:59
that's going to come out in theaters in April of next year.
52:02
I I always try to remind people it takes longer to make this
52:05
show than it does to watch it. So Please be patient.
52:08
It's going to, it's, it's a long process.
52:10
While we're working on that, I'm also working with my writers on
52:13
the writing of Season 6, which we're going to be filming next
52:16
year. So that's the crucifixion season
52:18
and so that's certainly intense to write.
52:21
And then we've also got our animated series, The Chosen
52:24
Adventures, which is kind of the animated version of some of what
52:27
you've seen, but through the eyes of two characters who you
52:30
saw in season 1, episode 3. Jesus loves the little children
52:35
and that's really fun, but also really life giving for the
52:37
family. And the chosen in the wild with
52:40
Bear Grylls, we filmed that. That's going to be coming out
52:43
next year where he takes some of the actors and myself separately
52:46
out into the wild. And we really explore God's
52:49
heart in in in that in that context.
52:52
And then we're developing a a mini series about Joseph, you
52:56
know, from the Old Testament. And after the chosen seven
53:00
seasons, I'm going to take a break and then I'm going to come
53:02
back with I want to tell the story of Moses and a three
53:05
season show. Oh wow, yeah.
53:06
So we got a lot. That sounds amazing.
53:08
Bible universe is building, yeah.
53:10
Yeah, that sounds amazing. You you need to live to be over
53:12
100 years old Dallas because you've got a lot of the Bible to
53:15
create it and those are those are that's all sound amazing.
53:17
You can't wait. Thank you so much.
53:19
Thank you for thank you for using your gifts for his Kingdom
53:21
in such an incredible way. It's plus so many people.
53:23
It's really means a lot. Thank you for helping spread the
53:26
word and for being a a partner in all of this.
53:29
So we'll keep up the the work. Together, thank you and
53:31
everybody go see the best Christmas pageant ever.
53:33
It is the best Christmas pageant ever.
53:35
Enjoy. Thank you so much Dallas.
53:37
A huge thank you to our partner. EWTNEWTN is the largest
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