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Trickle-Down Astrology · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Warning. The following episode contains discussion of Ronald Reagan, pro wrestlers,
0:15
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan talking to pro wrestlers Johnny Carson, and a
0:18
Speaker 1: disastrous late night pizza party. Also astrology sensitive listeners. Keep
0:23
Speaker 1: your tones handy.
0:36
Speaker 2: Sometimes I got games.
0:38
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm mad shots, Sometimes I'm mad lame. Sometimes I'm
0:41
Speaker 3: mad flying. Sometimes I'm so flying the Bay. I'm Hella fly.
0:44
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll get fraud and it'll be televised. Okay, we're
0:47
Speaker 3: gonna start this out with another slideshow, and this time
0:50
Speaker 3: it's about hul Cogan. This is hul Cogan's Rock and wrestling.
1:00
Speaker 3: As a kid, I knew everyone was supposed to like Hulkogan,
1:03
Speaker 3: and sometimes I even pretended to like Hulkogan, even though
1:07
Speaker 3: I was not a fan, But I often watched his
1:11
Speaker 3: cartoons on Saturday mornings because they were on. This is
1:15
Speaker 3: the only rock and wrestling episode I remember.
1:19
Speaker 4: The President wants to speak with you.
1:22
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, your country is depending on you, Holster. Don't
1:27
Speaker 3: let us down in it. The President like this cartoon.
1:31
Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan asked Hulkgan to go to space to rescue
1:35
Speaker 3: astronauts before a shuttle explodes. The cartoon is seared in
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Speaker 3: my brain because it aired not long after the Challenger disaster.
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Speaker 2: Well, what was it like being wrestler in space?
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Speaker 3: I tell you, bang, it was more awesome than a
1:51
Speaker 3: combat song. I also remember thinking, why do they think
1:55
Speaker 3: Hulkogan can probably open a cargo bay door? Because I mean,
1:59
Speaker 3: I know, oh he's strong. But even in cartoon form,
2:03
Speaker 3: this seemed dumb. And I was seven at the time.
2:08
Speaker 3: But maybe the makers of Rock and Wrestling thought they
2:11
Speaker 3: were doing something to help calm kids nerves.
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Speaker 5: And I want to say something to the school children
2:18
Speaker 5: of America. I know it's hard to understand, but sometimes
2:22
Speaker 5: painful things like this happen.
2:27
Speaker 3: That's the actual Ronald Gray again. The day after the
2:30
Speaker 3: Challenger exploded, our first grade teacher wheeled a TV into
2:33
Speaker 3: our classroom so the President could talk to us directly.
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Speaker 5: It's all part of the process of exploration and discovery.
2:43
Speaker 5: It's all part of taking a chance of expanding man's horizons.
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Speaker 5: The future doesn't belong to the faint hearted, belongs to
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Speaker 5: the brave.
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Speaker 3: The future belongs to the brave. Those words embody America
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Speaker 3: right and to preserve hope in the face of something
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Speaker 3: so devastating, so visible, anyway, what does any of this
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Speaker 3: have to do with us? Well, the Challenger wasn't the
3:19
Speaker 3: only time Reagan was thinking about the intersection of space
3:23
Speaker 3: and the future. That's right, I'm talking about astrology, and
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Speaker 3: it turns out in the nineteen eighties there was a
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Speaker 3: full on astrology scandal in the Reagan White House.
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Speaker 6: I don't mean to offend anyone who does but believe
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Speaker 6: in it, or.
3:41
Speaker 5: Who engage in Do you believe in it?
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Speaker 3: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Mongay's shitigither, Welcome to
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Speaker 3: Skyline Drive chapter one. When God's powerful word came.
4:42
Speaker 5: Let's start with the part that is the most controversial.
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Speaker 5: A few months ago I told the American people I
4:48
Speaker 5: did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my
4:52
Speaker 5: best intentions still tell me that's true, But the facts
4:55
Speaker 5: and the evidence tell me it is.
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Speaker 3: Not. Thing about Ronald Reagan is that he was unknowable,
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Speaker 3: like frustratingly unknowable. When the famed biographer Edmund Morris got
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Speaker 3: three million dollars to do an official biography, he spent
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Speaker 3: fourteen years interviewing and shadowing Reagan, but when he turned
5:16
Speaker 3: in his book, he switched it from a biography to fiction,
5:20
Speaker 3: and when he was asked why he did that with
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Speaker 3: his manuscript on sixty Minutes, Morris said, he was truly
5:26
Speaker 3: one of the strangest men who ever lived. Nobody around
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Speaker 3: him understood him. I every person I interviewed, almost without exception,
5:35
Speaker 3: eventually would say, you know, I could never really figure
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Speaker 3: him out. Think about that. Fourteen years of access and
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Speaker 3: Morris couldn't figure out how to accurately write about the
5:47
Speaker 3: man and what he stood for. And maybe that's why
5:51
Speaker 3: my mom and dad had such different opinions of Reagan.
5:54
Speaker 3: To my dad, a newly minted American, Reagan was proof
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Speaker 3: that anyone could make it in America, an actor becoming president.
6:03
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the optimism of an immigrant, someone who
6:06
Speaker 3: genuinely believed his son's potential was limitless in this new land.
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Speaker 3: But to my mom, who was not a fan of
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Speaker 3: his policies, reagan supposed interest in astrology made her like
6:18
Speaker 3: him more because it made him more like us. And
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Speaker 3: Reagan's interest in astrology was just this thing I always
6:25
Speaker 3: knew about growing up, but as I grew older, I
6:29
Speaker 3: began to question it, like it kind of seemed too
6:32
Speaker 3: outlandish to be true. So I asked my pal Mary
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Speaker 3: if she could find anything more concrete about this whole story. Actually,
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Speaker 3: before we dive into the controversa, I just wanted to
6:44
Speaker 3: ask you. I feel really lucky to have you in
6:47
Speaker 3: this project, but I'm curious why you did it because
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Speaker 3: you don't believe in astrology.
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Speaker 4: Well, you're very persuasive.
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Speaker 3: I guess We're sitting in a studio in Midtown and
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Speaker 3: I'm laughing because it's true. Mary was not convinced when
7:03
Speaker 3: I pitched this tour.
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Speaker 4: But I can. I can learn about things without believing
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Speaker 4: in them. I figure it's an opportunity to go down
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Speaker 4: a path I would not ordinarily go down.
7:13
Speaker 3: Do you know what your sign is?
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Speaker 4: I found out I'm a cancer. I thought I was
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Speaker 4: a Gemini. Oh, really, turns out I'm a cancer.
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Speaker 3: So I roped you into this thing with astrology, and
7:21
Speaker 3: then I said, hey, I really want to look into
7:24
Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan.
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Speaker 4: You did, and I like Ronald Reagan about as much
7:28
Speaker 4: as I like atrology. I grew up being terrified of
7:33
Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan. I remember being like three years old and
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Speaker 4: seeing him on the TV and being genuinely frightened. My
7:40
Speaker 4: parents were dragging me to defense spending protests during the eighties,
7:44
Speaker 4: so I had a very different experience. So it didn't
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Speaker 4: seem to really add up my understanding of Ronald Reagan
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Speaker 4: and my understanding of astrology. That didn't really make any sense.
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Speaker 4: And so that was why I figured it would be
7:56
Speaker 4: really interesting to find out what actually happened.
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Speaker 3: So, like, what was the big sort of controversy that
8:01
Speaker 3: made everyone suddenly start talking about it? So this is
8:05
Speaker 3: really juicy.
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Speaker 4: There's this guy Don Reagan who had been chief of
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Speaker 4: staff for Ronald Reagan, and he had been the chairman
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Speaker 4: of Merrill Lynch for a long time. He was Treasury Secretary.
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Speaker 4: He was like the architect of Reaganomics. And then he
8:17
Speaker 4: became chief of staff and he left the White House.
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Speaker 4: He got kicked out, and he basically was thrown out
8:23
Speaker 4: in disgrace from his job. And so he turned around
8:26
Speaker 4: and wrote a tell all book in nineteen eighty eight,
8:29
Speaker 4: called for the record, and apparently he got a million
8:32
Speaker 4: dollar advance, which was huge money at the.
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Speaker 3: Time, million dollars.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, but he made this huge revelation that while he
8:39
Speaker 4: was in the White House, Nancy Reagan was asking him
8:43
Speaker 4: to change the president's schedule based on astrological advice from
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Speaker 4: a friend, quote quote. He even said he had to
8:51
Speaker 4: keep a color coded calendar of like good days, auspicious days,
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Speaker 4: bad days, if he days for the president's travel, his
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Speaker 4: public appeerings. All of this and the press went crazy.
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Speaker 2: The Reagan's and their stars astrologically speaking, Did Donald Reagan
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Speaker 2: get his ex bosses Capricorn?
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Speaker 3: That is goat? Or is it all a load of Taurus?
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Speaker 1: If President Richard Nixon?
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Speaker 3: Towards the end, the claim was I am not a
9:15
Speaker 3: crook with Ronald Reagan. Last week it was more like
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Speaker 3: I am not a nut. Is that like a gift
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Speaker 3: from heaven for a cartoon as a story like that? Yeah,
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Speaker 3: it is.
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Speaker 2: I consider that it's just too good, too good to
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Speaker 2: be true.
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Speaker 4: There's a Reagan library. They have archives, and I thought, well,
9:34
Speaker 4: maybe there's something in there about astrology. Turns out they
9:37
Speaker 4: actually have a finding aid labeled astrology. Oh really yeah, yeah,
9:43
Speaker 4: because they have files that are, you know, touch on
9:46
Speaker 4: the scandal. I asked them if I could see them,
9:49
Speaker 4: and they said that they would have to take some
9:52
Speaker 4: time to take all the staples out, but then they
9:54
Speaker 4: could scan them and send them to me. And a
9:56
Speaker 4: lot of it was just newspaper clippings, you know, cartoons
9:58
Speaker 4: when it came out. Yeah, And there were transcripts of
10:01
Speaker 4: press conferences where the White House spokespeople were just getting slammed.
10:07
Speaker 4: All the reporters wanted to talk about was astrology. What
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Speaker 4: is the deal? You know, are they just deciding everything
10:13
Speaker 4: based on this? You know, what can you tell us?
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Speaker 4: And they didn't want to answer. But what I thought
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Speaker 4: was really fascinating was they had saved all of this
10:19
Speaker 4: correspondence from the religious right, basically evangelical Christians who had
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Speaker 4: helped elect Ronald Reagan. Evangelical Christians do not like astrology.
10:30
Speaker 4: This is May twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight, at the
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Speaker 4: height of the controversy from Don Reagan's book. This radio
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Speaker 4: preacher named George Otis, who was a friend of the Reagans,
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Speaker 4: wrote directly to the White House. Dear mister President, you've
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Speaker 4: been a great chief of state. You will recall how
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Speaker 4: in October nineteen seventy God spoke directly to you through
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Speaker 4: myself there in your Sacramento home. When God's powerful word
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Speaker 4: came you were to become president of the United States.
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Speaker 4: This may have been the most remarkable visitation from the
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Speaker 4: Lord of any president in history. You were hand packed
11:00
Speaker 4: for leadership in one of our nation's most pivotal hours. Wow,
11:03
Speaker 4: no pressure, right, And so he was saying, I beg
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Speaker 4: you to renounce the practice of astrology in the White House.
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Speaker 4: To make a statement now would be an act of
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Speaker 4: courage and pleasing to God. But if you fail to
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Speaker 4: do so, you legitimize astrology and the occult and set
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Speaker 4: our nation on a collision course with God.
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Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I always sort of bristle
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Speaker 3: when I hear things like this. There is such hypocrisy
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Speaker 3: on what sort of magical thinking we're okay with as
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Speaker 3: a country. Like if a televangelist goes into tongues and
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Speaker 3: prophesizes that Reagan has to be the next president because
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Speaker 3: God told him, that is totally okay. Western miracles don't
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Speaker 3: bother the base, But if an astrologer makes a prediction
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Speaker 3: that's blasphemy. It just feels silly that a president should
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Speaker 3: be lauded for believing in one of those ideas but
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Speaker 3: threatened for believing in the other. It reminds me of
12:01
Speaker 3: this feeling I had as a kid, totally the opposite
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Speaker 3: of my dad's optimism about who was allowed to be president.
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Speaker 3: The fact that I was born brown and Hindu, that
12:13
Speaker 3: I had a name that was unpronounceable. It seemingly crippled
12:17
Speaker 3: my chances from the start. I mean, the Indian kids
12:20
Speaker 3: who were ten years older than me and wanted to
12:22
Speaker 3: be politicians, the Bobby Jindles and Nikki Haley's, they always
12:27
Speaker 3: seemed to convert to Christianity and change their names along
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Speaker 3: the way. You know, I wish I could tell you
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Speaker 3: I had this son to epiphany.
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Speaker 5: There was no moment on that road to Damascus was
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Speaker 5: that easy for me.
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Speaker 7: Christianity spoke to me at a time where I needed
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Speaker 7: a connection, and so no political pressure should never change
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Speaker 7: a person.
12:44
Speaker 3: I am my parents' daughter. Maybe that's why I'm so
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Speaker 3: interested in Ronald Reagan, because even though he's seen as
12:53
Speaker 3: this ultimate American, this American mascot for those who.
12:59
Speaker 5: Have abandoned the whole, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome
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Speaker 5: them into a great national crusade to make America great again.
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Speaker 3: By dabbling in astrology, he got away with something that
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Speaker 3: doesn't feel American at all.
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Speaker 4: So right after Don Reagan's book came out and broke
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Speaker 4: this story of astrology. In the White House, Ronald Reagan
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Speaker 4: and George Bush, who was then Vice President, were walking
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Speaker 4: to a press conference in the Rose Garden.
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Speaker 3: Look, the President, will you continue to allow astrology to
13:32
Speaker 3: play a part in the makeup of old ChEls.
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Speaker 7: Kock it off man?
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Speaker 5: You asked for it? I can't because I never did.
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Speaker 3: This is not the man I watched in first grade
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Speaker 3: reminding us that science can be heartbreak but is always progress.
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Speaker 3: I mean, this man is struggling. Like, listen to this
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Speaker 3: from May seventeen, nineteen eighty eight.
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Speaker 6: This was all once again smoke and mirrors, and we
14:03
Speaker 6: made no decisions on it, and we're not binding our
14:06
Speaker 6: lives to this. And I don't mean to offend anyone
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Speaker 6: who does but believe in it.
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Speaker 3: So right there, he takes a moment to make sure
14:16
Speaker 3: he's not offending anyone who believes in astrology, and then
14:20
Speaker 3: a reporter pounces.
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Speaker 6: I don't guide my life by it, but I won't
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Speaker 6: answer the question the other way because I don't know
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Speaker 6: enough about it to say is there something to it or.
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Speaker 3: Belief is hard to talk about. It's confusing. Sometimes belief
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Speaker 3: is just the collective sway of these tiny tendrils of influence.
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Speaker 3: Like it's not some hard and fast tenets. I mean
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Speaker 3: you hear it in Reagan's words, right, Like talking about
14:52
Speaker 3: belief is so hard that one of the most gifted
14:55
Speaker 3: politicians stumbles through his answer and he twists his words
14:59
Speaker 3: into some things so convoluted it barely has meaning anymore.
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Speaker 3: Except Reagan is not being honest here, because astrology had
15:09
Speaker 3: definitely played a role in his daily and his political life.
15:13
Speaker 3: And you don't have to take our word for it,
15:16
Speaker 3: you can take his straight from his nineteen sixty five autobiography.
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Speaker 3: So let's turn back the clocks and investigate right after
15:25
Speaker 3: this break about the hearty got get you chum head
15:48
Speaker 3: chapter two, what would Nancy do? The strange thing is,
15:56
Speaker 3: for decades, Ron and Nancy's interest in astrology was an
16:00
Speaker 3: open secret, or at least it had been. Astrology was
16:03
Speaker 3: this California thing, and it was also a showbiz thing,
16:07
Speaker 3: and the Reagans and their friends they enjoyed rubbing shoulders
16:10
Speaker 3: with people like La Times astrologer Carol Ryder because, like
16:14
Speaker 3: People Magazine put it, writer was the confidante of the
16:18
Speaker 3: rich and famous, who saw him less as a backdoor
16:20
Speaker 3: Suthsayer than as social equal. His zodiac parties in the
16:24
Speaker 3: fifties were highlights of every season. Fish for swimming in
16:27
Speaker 3: his pool for the Pisces party, and he rented a
16:29
Speaker 3: liveline for a Leo party. As Ronald wrote in his
16:33
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five autobiography Where's the Rest of Me, every
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Speaker 3: morning Nancy and I turned to see what he has
16:39
Speaker 3: to say about people of our respective birth signs, horoscopes,
16:43
Speaker 3: and astrology. It was no big deal and a part
16:47
Speaker 3: of their daily morning routine. They liked to check in
16:50
Speaker 3: and contemplate how the stars might affect their day, and
16:54
Speaker 3: they embraced the culture. Around that same time, Nancy started
16:58
Speaker 3: paying writer for his astrologically. Then came the election in
17:07
Speaker 3: late nineteen sixty six. After Ronald Reagan won the governor's race,
17:11
Speaker 3: he scheduled his oath to take place, specifically at twelve
17:14
Speaker 3: sixteen am on January second, nineteen sixty seven. The timing
17:18
Speaker 3: of this did not make any sense unless you were
17:22
Speaker 3: looking at the stars. It turns out that exact time
17:25
Speaker 3: corresponded to Jupiter rising, and if you're a believer, starting
17:29
Speaker 3: your term at that moment would make it blessed prosperous.
17:37
Speaker 3: When the outgoing governor Edmund Brown got win to the story,
17:40
Speaker 3: he leaked it to the press and Reagan's team immediately
17:43
Speaker 3: went into spin mode. Right, so, Reagan had a spokesperson
17:46
Speaker 3: tell reporters that he didn't believe in astrology. The staffer
17:50
Speaker 3: even took it further. He said Reagan was so averse
17:52
Speaker 3: to astrology that he had only ever seen a horoscope
17:56
Speaker 3: by accident, which obviously wasn't true. But the craziest part
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Speaker 3: of all this, like the reason we're talking about this,
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Speaker 3: It means that Don Reagan's book wasn't even the president's
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Speaker 3: first astrology related scandal. But let's talk about Nancy.
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Speaker 4: When I started looking into this, the first place I
18:16
Speaker 4: looked was Nancy Reagan's memoir because I wanted to hear
18:19
Speaker 4: her side of the story. It's called My Turn, and
18:22
Speaker 4: it was very pointedly a rebuke to Don Reagan's book
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Speaker 4: the year prior, and she basically disputed everything he said
18:30
Speaker 4: and down played the role that her astrologer friend played
18:33
Speaker 4: in the president's life, in her life, in everything, and
18:37
Speaker 4: she said it was only minor schedule changes and it
18:40
Speaker 4: only came about because she was so worried for her
18:42
Speaker 4: husband's safety after the assassination attempt in nineteen eighty one,
18:46
Speaker 4: and that she was driven to do this out of
18:48
Speaker 4: a sense of duty and guilt.
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Speaker 3: If you really want to trace the influence of astrology
18:53
Speaker 3: on the White House, this is the moment that Nancy
18:55
Speaker 3: Reagan started casting about for help. And it was her
18:58
Speaker 3: friend MERV Griffin.
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Speaker 2: Good morning everybody, and welcome to we report you.
19:02
Speaker 7: I'd like her to Susan Stafford, our.
19:03
Speaker 3: Host is come on, yes, game show legend MERV Griffin
19:08
Speaker 3: who introduced her to Joan quickly.
19:12
Speaker 4: Joan quidly was this Vasser graduate. She was very smart.
19:15
Speaker 4: She came from a very wealthy knob Hill, San Francisco family. Initially,
19:20
Speaker 4: Joan really tried to downplay her role in the Reagan's
19:24
Speaker 4: lives because Nancy had asked her to do that. As
19:27
Speaker 4: all of this controversy was boiling over, Joan really stuck
19:30
Speaker 4: to the party line that well, no, I didn't have
19:32
Speaker 4: that much influence. But when Nancy's book came out, I
19:37
Speaker 4: think at that point Joan was like, screw you, Nancy.
19:39
Speaker 4: You know it's me time now.
19:41
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
19:41
Speaker 4: She became briefly the most famous astrologer in the world right,
19:44
Speaker 4: she was going to take advantage of it, and so
19:46
Speaker 4: she started telling the story that in fact she had
19:49
Speaker 4: controlled everything.
19:51
Speaker 3: It's true Nancy's astrologer would take credit for helping to
19:54
Speaker 3: appoint some justices, keeping the president safe, and even thawing
19:57
Speaker 3: the Cold War. But the question in just how influential
20:02
Speaker 3: was she and how much did she have the president's
20:05
Speaker 3: ear on foreign policy. But before we talk about Nancy's friend,
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Speaker 3: Chapter three a short and incomplete list of modern politicians
20:18
Speaker 3: who used astrology. If Joe Biden was consulting an astrologer
20:25
Speaker 3: on major American issues, how would you feel would you
20:29
Speaker 3: vote for an astrology believer? We interrupted the New York
20:33
Speaker 3: City dinner party to ask that very same question.
20:38
Speaker 5: It would feel more like the president was just rolling
20:41
Speaker 5: the dice if that was how he was making decisions.
20:44
Speaker 3: Yes, I would vote for a presidential candidate that used
20:48
Speaker 3: astrology to guide their decision making, and I would think
20:52
Speaker 3: that they were very wise.
20:55
Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
20:58
Speaker 3: I think that is absolutely no connection between being a
21:03
Speaker 3: great president and the reading d the stars.
21:08
Speaker 6: It's just not politically correct.
21:12
Speaker 3: But the truth is, Reagan's interest in astrology does not
21:16
Speaker 3: make him an outlier. Here's a list of modern politicians
21:23
Speaker 3: who read their horoscope and checked it twice.
21:27
Speaker 6: Why where.
21:30
Speaker 3: Nixon was a quirky guy. Not only did he band
21:33
Speaker 3: soup in the White House and eat cottage cheese with ketchup,
21:36
Speaker 3: but he also valued the advice of astrologer Jene Dixon, who,
21:41
Speaker 3: to be fair, also gave advice to Franklin Roosevelt, JFK
21:44
Speaker 3: and the Reagans. But Nixon called her his soothsayer, and
21:49
Speaker 3: not only did Jean visit him in the White House,
21:50
Speaker 3: but she sent the president copious letters on national security predictions.
21:55
Speaker 3: In fact, in nineteen seventy two, when she warned of
21:58
Speaker 3: a threat on American soil after the Munich Olympics, Nixon
22:02
Speaker 3: used her intel to alert Kissinger and to assemble a
22:05
Speaker 3: counter terrorism unit for Yes, the only thing I remember
22:12
Speaker 3: about Boris Yelson is that one time when he was
22:16
Speaker 3: visiting Washington, he almost caused this international incident because he
22:20
Speaker 3: left the White House grounds drunk in just his underwear,
22:24
Speaker 3: desperate to find some late night pizza. This is true,
22:28
Speaker 3: which I can respect. But Yeltsin was also an astrology head.
22:33
Speaker 3: During his presidency, a naval captain revealed to the economists
22:37
Speaker 3: that Russia had a secret institute that employed quote military astrologers.
22:43
Speaker 3: Three friend when the French president's wife made accusations that
22:51
Speaker 3: Midrand was only interested in his astrologer because he was
22:55
Speaker 3: sleeping with her. The astrologer a former model and actress.
23:00
Speaker 3: All these tapes of their conversations show that they had
23:02
Speaker 3: a purely professional relationship, And on these tapes were incredible
23:07
Speaker 3: things like Mitteran trying to understand the power struggles in
23:10
Speaker 3: Russia through astrology. He was using the stars to vet
23:14
Speaker 3: cabinet members, and most curiously, he was taking astrological advice
23:20
Speaker 3: on how to handle France's role and entry into the
23:24
Speaker 3: Gulf War. Anyway, all that's to say that a handful
23:32
Speaker 3: of astrologers have had way more sway on world events
23:37
Speaker 3: than any of us would like to think.
23:39
Speaker 5: You know, I know, you know, you.
23:43
Speaker 3: Know. Chapter four. What would Joan do? If we're to
23:58
Speaker 3: believe Joan? Quickly? What are the many thing she helped
24:00
Speaker 3: make happen was Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's appointment. She
24:04
Speaker 3: also claims to have planned the president's debate times and
24:07
Speaker 3: delayed the timing of Reagan's cancer surgery, But perhaps most importantly,
24:12
Speaker 3: Quickly takes credit for changing the president's opinion about Soviet
24:16
Speaker 3: leader Mikhyle Gorbachev, As reported in the New York Times,
24:20
Speaker 3: quickly battled to the map for three hours to convince
24:23
Speaker 3: Nancy Reagan that her husband could trust Gorbachev. As Quigly said, quote,
24:29
Speaker 3: the placement of his ruler Mercury, symbolizes to me that
24:32
Speaker 3: despite his Russian training and origins, Gorbachev has the instincts
24:36
Speaker 3: of a humanitarian. Joan also convinced the President to work
24:40
Speaker 3: towards disarmament and to extend his trip in Europe to
24:43
Speaker 3: hammer out in agreement.
24:45
Speaker 4: The one thing everybody agrees on is that Joan Quickly
24:48
Speaker 4: actually did help decide when the president traveled, because that
24:52
Speaker 4: was Nancy's big fear after the assassination attempt. And so
24:56
Speaker 4: I think everybody is pretty much in agreement that, yes,
24:59
Speaker 4: Joan quickly helped identify days where maybe it wouldn't be
25:02
Speaker 4: a good idea to go anywhere that you, for safety's sake,
25:05
Speaker 4: you might not want to fly on that day. Maybe
25:08
Speaker 4: fly the next day, or fly a couple hours later,
25:10
Speaker 4: and that'll be safer for you. And nobody really had
25:13
Speaker 4: a problem with that. Then it kind of shades into
25:15
Speaker 4: this thing of like, well, if he's not making a
25:18
Speaker 4: public appearance for a week, that's a big deal, right
25:21
Speaker 4: because that affects what he's able to do as president.
25:24
Speaker 4: And certainly Joan coming out and saying that she literally
25:30
Speaker 4: told him that, based on his chart and Gorbachev's chart,
25:33
Speaker 4: that they should sit down and talk. I mean that's
25:36
Speaker 4: really explosive.
25:37
Speaker 3: Well, especially at the time, right like where height of
25:40
Speaker 3: the Cold War, there's like nuclear proliferation on both sides
25:45
Speaker 3: in a massive way, and people are worried that someone
25:48
Speaker 3: will hit a button and cause the end of the earth.
25:51
Speaker 3: Like that's the idea of talking with your enemy at
25:54
Speaker 3: that time was pretty significant.
25:56
Speaker 4: People were very upset at the idea that this random
26:00
Speaker 4: astrologer was influencing such big decisions when there was so
26:04
Speaker 4: much at stay.
26:05
Speaker 3: Do you think Reagan was actually using this advice? Was
26:08
Speaker 3: this just going to his wife? What's the deal here?
26:10
Speaker 4: So that was sort of the other question. Was this
26:13
Speaker 4: Nancy's fault? Because everything back then was Nancy's fault. She
26:17
Speaker 4: had this image of being this evil puppeteer of her
26:21
Speaker 4: hapless husband who loved her so much he would just
26:24
Speaker 4: do whatever she wanted, just.
26:26
Speaker 3: To quick aside. Nancy Reagan was indeed ambitious for her husband,
26:30
Speaker 3: incredibly ambitious. Jimmy Stewart once said that had Ronald been
26:34
Speaker 3: married to Nancy earlier, he would have won an Academy award,
26:38
Speaker 3: and Reagan's aids admit this too. They say that without
26:41
Speaker 3: Nancy there would have been no Governor Reagan, no President Reagan.
26:46
Speaker 4: She absolutely took a lot of heat for allegedly being
26:49
Speaker 4: the power behind the throne, and so when this came
26:51
Speaker 4: out that it was Nancy's friend making these calls, that
26:55
Speaker 4: was more evidence that she was actually controlling him.
27:13
Speaker 3: Chapter five, Sympathy for the Devil. Earlier in the show,
27:18
Speaker 3: we skimmed over the fact that there was an assassination
27:20
Speaker 3: attempt on Ronald Reagan. As he was leaving a speech
27:25
Speaker 3: and walking to his limo. John Hinckley Junior, a delusional
27:28
Speaker 3: individual who was trying to impress Jodie Foster, pulled out
27:32
Speaker 3: a Rome RG fourteen twenty two caliber and he shot
27:36
Speaker 3: it six times in less than two seconds. The first
27:48
Speaker 3: five shots missed their mark. One hit Reagan's press secretary
27:51
Speaker 3: Jim Brady in the head, another hitden agent in the
27:54
Speaker 3: stomach as he put his body on the line. But
27:57
Speaker 3: as the Secret Service pushed the President into the limo,
28:00
Speaker 3: final bullet bounced off the car, ricocheting into the President's
28:04
Speaker 3: lung and lodging just twenty five millimeters from his heart.
28:08
Speaker 3: A few people would know just how close he'd come
28:11
Speaker 3: to death.
28:12
Speaker 2: Confirm the presidential it's currently where.
28:26
Speaker 7: The president at the hospita.
28:30
Speaker 3: It happened early in his presidency, on March thirtieth, nineteen
28:34
Speaker 3: eighty one. And the truth is, in most discussions of
28:38
Speaker 3: Reagan's legacy, it's glossed over. In his obituary in the
28:43
Speaker 3: New York Times, the shooting isn't even mentioned until the
28:45
Speaker 3: twenty fifth paragraph. So in the scope of things, it
28:51
Speaker 3: just isn't thought about that much. But for Nancy Reagan,
28:55
Speaker 3: it was something entirely different. Right, This was something she
28:59
Speaker 3: could ever ever forget. As I was trying to sort
29:10
Speaker 3: through all of this and put Nancy in context, Mary
29:14
Speaker 3: sent me one more clip Nancy's appearance on The Tonight
29:23
Speaker 3: Show with Johnny Carson.
29:25
Speaker 5: Can I ask you about the astrology? You get tired
29:27
Speaker 5: of answering that question? No, that's one of the things
29:29
Speaker 5: you know that I want to hit the papers.
29:31
Speaker 3: Wow, I know if you're looking at the video. Nancy
29:35
Speaker 3: so clearly doesn't want to talk about this, but she will.
29:39
Speaker 3: I know she's a trained actor, I know she's good
29:42
Speaker 3: at playing the role of first lady. But still hearing
29:45
Speaker 3: her say why she put faith in astrology, why she
29:49
Speaker 3: needed to put faith in it, Well, it breaks your
29:52
Speaker 3: heart where it breaks mine.
29:55
Speaker 7: You can't really describe what you go through, uh, when
30:01
Speaker 7: your husband is shot and almost dies. And most people
30:05
Speaker 7: didn't know that there were there were there were two
30:09
Speaker 7: times that they came to me and said they couldn't
30:11
Speaker 7: find his pulse. He was very close to going in
30:15
Speaker 7: to shock and if he had, and that would have
30:18
Speaker 7: been in Now, everybody has their way of handling that
30:24
Speaker 7: particular kind of trauma, and that particular kind of trauma
30:27
Speaker 7: is it's is very special. And I talked to my minister,
30:33
Speaker 7: I talked to friends, and then I had a friend
30:36
Speaker 7: call me and say, gee, they she he had talked
30:40
Speaker 7: to this girl and woman and she could have told
30:43
Speaker 7: me that Ronnie shouldn't have done a thing on that day, right,
30:46
Speaker 7: And I thought, my Lord, I could have prevented it,
30:49
Speaker 7: you know, And so I called her. I didn't think
30:55
Speaker 7: I was doing anything, so wrong, and I still don't
30:58
Speaker 7: think I did anything so wrong. It helped me through
31:01
Speaker 7: a very really a very rough time, very tough time.
31:06
Speaker 3: There's so many things about the ways the Reagans tell
31:08
Speaker 3: their story, the way they talk about astrology that doesn't
31:12
Speaker 3: really add up, from the governor's oath to the idea
31:16
Speaker 3: that Ronald had never seen his horoscope except by accident,
31:19
Speaker 3: to dozens of other inconsistencies. Quickly had met the Reagans
31:23
Speaker 3: before she actually worked on Ronald Reagan's governor's campaign. But
31:27
Speaker 3: none of that stops this part from being true. Nancy
31:31
Speaker 3: was desperately trying to keep her husband safe. That same year,
31:35
Speaker 3: there would be an assassination attempt on Pope John Paul
31:38
Speaker 3: the Second's life. Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat would be killed,
31:42
Speaker 3: and world leaders really were under threat. Nancy's guilt it
31:47
Speaker 3: kicked in because of all this, like why wouldn't she
31:50
Speaker 3: try everything in her power to do that?
31:52
Speaker 7: But the changes there were made were things like would
31:56
Speaker 7: be better to leave that two o'clock or I mean,
32:01
Speaker 7: you know, there wasn't any great and there were no
32:03
Speaker 7: political decisions ever made on astrology. I didn't hurt anybody
32:07
Speaker 7: except I embarrassed, Ronnie. I was sorry for that.
32:21
Speaker 3: It's not that I'm enamored with Nancy Reagan all of
32:23
Speaker 3: a sudden, but I don't laugh at her anymore because
32:27
Speaker 3: faced with the option to do nothing or do something,
32:31
Speaker 3: Nancy picked up the phones and work. Then she found
32:35
Speaker 3: the best astrologer she could. She color coded her husband's calendar.
32:38
Speaker 3: She feuded with Reagan's chief of staff over the details
32:41
Speaker 3: of his schedule, and she fought fiercely to keep her
32:44
Speaker 3: husband out of harm's way. And seeing the love she
32:48
Speaker 3: poured into protecting him, it makes me feel guilty because
32:54
Speaker 3: I didn't do everything I could for my dad. I
32:58
Speaker 3: really didn't sure. I raised to see him, I tussled
33:02
Speaker 3: his hair, I kissed his head, I dressed and shaved him.
33:06
Speaker 3: I walked him to him from the bathroom. When he
33:08
Speaker 3: was too weak to lift himself up from his chair.
33:10
Speaker 3: I helped his frail body in and out of bed
33:13
Speaker 3: and stuffed a pillow under his knees. I pulled his
33:17
Speaker 3: socks off his shiny, hairless legs to keep him warm
33:20
Speaker 3: when he napped, and I fetched his pulp mystery books
33:23
Speaker 3: and refilled his bowl of shelled pistachios. I sat in
33:27
Speaker 3: the hospital trying to decipher his mumbles and his moans,
33:30
Speaker 3: and I put chips of ice into his mouth just
33:33
Speaker 3: to watch him crunch at it and then smile. And
33:37
Speaker 3: when he could barely respond anymore and the treatments weren't working,
33:42
Speaker 3: I signed his life away. I ordered the morphine and
33:46
Speaker 3: brought him home in an ambulance so he could breathe
33:49
Speaker 3: his last breadth at home. I tried, I really did,
33:55
Speaker 3: but I didn't do enough. I didn't pray, not the
33:59
Speaker 3: way my mom and sisters did. I didn't hunt for
34:01
Speaker 3: an ira a cure or research alternative medicines. I didn't
34:06
Speaker 3: place a bet on the magical because my belief is
34:09
Speaker 3: limited to what I understand, and I'll live with that guil,
34:15
Speaker 3: not that there's any logic to it, because even if
34:18
Speaker 3: I didn't believe, my dad did and couldn't, I have
34:23
Speaker 3: put aside my pride to give him everything because everything
34:30
Speaker 3: is what he gave me. Next week on Skyline Drive
35:00
Speaker 3: more Being Sad next week is one hundred percent fun.
35:04
Speaker 3: We are talking to moneyball statisticians who use astrology CNN's
35:08
Speaker 3: house astrologer. They used to have a house astrologer. Astrology
35:12
Speaker 3: in law School and BTS. That's right, We're going to
35:15
Speaker 3: use astrology to figure out Korean supergroup BTS's next steps.
35:21
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. I can't see into the future,
35:23
Speaker 3: but I can promise it will be fun.
35:37
Speaker 6: Bonetta Pictures, Sari Kendrick Becker.
35:42
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. This show is written
35:45
Speaker 3: by Taffy Prodessor Akner, Executive produced by Tappy Prodessor Acner,
35:48
Speaker 3: based on a book by Tappy Prodess. I'm so sorry
35:52
Speaker 3: these are credits for Fleischman is in trouble and reading
35:55
Speaker 3: the wrong credits. That's a fantastic show. Go stream it
35:58
Speaker 3: after this. This show, Skyline Drive is a production of
36:02
Speaker 3: Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. It's hosted and written by me
36:06
Speaker 3: Mongish particular. But you would not have made it to
36:09
Speaker 3: the third episode if it wasn't for all these lovely people.
36:13
Speaker 3: Mary Philip Sandy is our Kanki loving supervising producer, and
36:16
Speaker 3: she's now read every book in the world about the Reagans.
36:19
Speaker 3: Go Quizzer. Mitro Bunschaii is our delightful senior producer and
36:22
Speaker 3: gets the best wild tape seriously. Mark Loto is our
36:26
Speaker 3: story editor and made me move Nancy Reagan from a
36:29
Speaker 3: single paragraph in episode one to her own episode, and
36:32
Speaker 3: this show is so much better for it. This episode
36:35
Speaker 3: was mixed and mastered all the way in Bangalore by
36:37
Speaker 3: the talented groove Shiva Rau, with scoring as always from Botany.
36:42
Speaker 3: Check out his SoundCloud the insane music in between his
36:46
Speaker 3: courtesy of the dopest Indian record label, Azabi Records, and
36:50
Speaker 3: my pal Jimanchu Suri and so many other musicians. If
36:54
Speaker 3: you want to hear all of this music, we linked
36:57
Speaker 3: to a mixtape in the show notes. Go listen in
37:00
Speaker 3: the kids. The kids were so great, right Numbers and
37:03
Speaker 3: politicians voiced by my Dean Street neighbors Reese, the resident
37:08
Speaker 3: pizza expert, Leav the resident panda expert, Miriam who does
37:11
Speaker 3: the best Broadway show tunes in my backyard, and Yuki,
37:15
Speaker 3: who is very very good at pointing out snails. Also
37:18
Speaker 3: my very sweet and very noisy roommates, Henry and Ruby.
37:22
Speaker 3: Special thanks to my remarkable neighbor and counsel Rachel Strom
37:25
Speaker 3: for vetting this episode, and the Reagan Library, the fo
37:29
Speaker 3: Your Ears Only Newsweek on Air collection, and Carson Entertainment
37:33
Speaker 3: Group for all of their incredible archive. Thank you so much.
37:37
Speaker 3: Additional production and research support from the wonderful Anna Rubanova Soundboard,
37:42
Speaker 3: Lizzie the Natural, QB Jacobs, my talented aunts, Simon Buckshie
37:47
Speaker 3: and notorious snooker hustler ur Jun Bucksheet. This show is
37:51
Speaker 3: executive produced from iHeart by my good good friends Nicki
37:55
Speaker 3: Toour and Patrina Norvel. Also all my brilliant power Else
38:00
Speaker 3: Like Kaleidoscope, Ozwa Listen, Kate Osbourne, Costos Linos Buying Shor
38:05
Speaker 3: and also Cheesy it feels like Cheesy needs a shout
38:08
Speaker 3: out right Kate Special. Thanks to all my friends of iHeart,
38:11
Speaker 3: Shanta and Soros, my family everywhere. Dan Tabirsky. Dan Tibirsky
38:16
Speaker 3: read this episode's warning. Today I got into podcasting true story.
38:19
Speaker 3: I binged all four episodes of Missing Richard Simmons because
38:23
Speaker 3: there were only four out at the time, and I've
38:25
Speaker 3: binged every one of his other shows to Running from Cops,
38:28
Speaker 3: Surviving Y two, k the Line. It is all so
38:31
Speaker 3: incredibly good and just one last thank you as always
38:36
Speaker 3: to my Amma and my dad, Lalifa and Umesh, who
38:40
Speaker 3: I have to thank my lucky stars for Thank you
38:43
Speaker 3: so much for listening,