Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E128: How Cancer Became Her Blessing w/ Lamar Hanna

Transcript

E128: How Cancer Became Her Blessing w/ Lamar Hanna · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  Jessica's Instagram account has reached millions of people.
• 0:03
  Why did she call it blessed by cancer?
• 0:05
  And what was Jessica's heart behind this Instagram account
• 0:08
  and the content that she was creating throughout her
• 0:10
  suffering? Cancer ended up being a blessing
• 0:12
  for Jessica's soul. This woman was so prepared for
• 0:15
  death, her priest who gave her her last rites told me.
• 0:18
  I don't think I've ever met anyone that prepared seeing a
• 0:20
  woman use her talents and give them all to God and then seeing
• 0:23
  what happens when you do that. She's just proof that any talent
• 0:26
  you might have, if you give it to our Lord and do His will as
• 0:29
  perfect as you can, incredible things can happen.
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  And that's what happened here. You have to have that trust that
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  our Lord is in control of everything.
• 0:34
  So as ugly as suffering can get, as uncertain as it can get, as
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  dark as it can get, there's always glory if you participate
• 0:40
  in our Lord's will and pick up your cross and keep going.
• 0:47
  Hey everybody, welcome back to the Lila Rose Podcast.
• 0:50
  We have a treat today. We're sitting down with Lamar
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  Hannah, who is the widower, the husband of Jessica Hannah.
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  She is the creator behind the popular Instagram account called
• 1:01
  Blessed by Cancer. Jessica passed away just a few
• 1:05
  months ago, and Lamar is now on a journey to share her life and
• 1:08
  the incredible lessons of love and trust that she shared with
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  the world throughout her life and in her death.
• 1:14
  In this interview, we talk about what it means to actually
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  prepare for death. We talk about navigating
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  suffering and maintaining peace, the impact that cancer had on
• 1:23
  the Hannah family, including their four young children, but
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  how they navigated that and discovered an even deeper love
• 1:28
  and even peace despite the suffering.
• 1:31
  You're not going to want to miss this episode.
• 1:32
  Please share this episode with anyone that you know who may be
• 1:35
  going through a hard time, who may be wrestling with suffering
• 1:37
  themselves, who knows someone who's going through a hard time.
• 1:40
  I think they will be very encouraged and consoled by the
• 1:43
  words that Lamar has to share. Don't forget, as always, to
• 1:45
  subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts or watch
• 1:49
  them on YouTube. Make sure that you give us five
• 1:51
  stars that helps the show reach more people.
• 1:53
  We really, really appreciate it guys.
• 1:54
  And before we dive in with our conversation with Lamar Hannah,
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• 4:47
  Lamar Hannah, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
• 4:50
  Thanks for having me Lila. You have an incredible story and
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  your family is so inspiring and your beautiful wife has been
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  inspiring for me to me for well over a year when I first
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  discovered her Instagram account and learned her story.
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  So thank you so much for sharing her life with so many people.
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  I can't say enough about her. I'm sure we'll get into that,
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  but yeah. She was awesome.
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  She she absolutely is. So I'd love to start with just
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  your background and your how you met Jessica, your courtship, how
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  you guys met and married. Yeah.
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  So I, I wouldn't call it a traditional courtship, but yeah,
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  we, we both met in grad school at that point individually in
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  our lives. We were in grad school pretty
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  much born and raised Catholic, both of us.
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  But pretty much I'd call us Kaino CINO, Catholics in name
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  only. We pretty much went to Holy.
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  We went to Sunday Mass and that's pretty much it.
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  I mean, we we pretty much put our careers before everything
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  and we didn't really do much extra prayers, frequent
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  sacraments, learn our catechisms.
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  But we happened to meet. It was a mutual friend connected
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  us at to be dates at a wedding. I met her at this wedding.
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  One of the first things that caught my eye was she use a
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  family style meal. She made her own plate and then
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  she made her friends plate. And then I said, who's that for?
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  She said it's a friend who's late coming and that that just
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  stuck with me. I'm like, this woman is a caring
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  woman. She's empathetic.
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  Like everybody's busy having fun and she's making a play for
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  someone else. So that, that quality that I was
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  able to catch caught my eye. And she, I mean, she was like
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  that for all the time I ever knew her.
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  But it was, you know, it was, it was definitely divine
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  Providence, how we ended up getting married because from
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  that point, you know, it's not, it wasn't like a fairy tale
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  story. We like, we lost touch.
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  We got back in touch two years later and just all the way that
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  it all happened. If I go into details, you'd be
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  like, there's no way that this wasn't God's plan because it was
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  almost like, almost like a fluke how we got back together.
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  But we did and we ended up getting married and you know,
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  our first eight years of marriage, I would say we
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  probably continued that CINO lifestyle Catholic and name
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  only. We we we went to Sunday Mass,
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  but at and that we both had shared this desire to open
• 7:06
  businesses and be successful in business.
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  And we ended up doing that. We ended up opening a few
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  businesses, managing them. We still have these business to
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  this day, but at it was at the expense of our our faith.
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  We pretty much put took it took a back seat and to the point
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  where we even kind of delayed having children in the
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  beginning, something we both regretted much later on.
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  So, you know, yes, we did have successful businesses and God
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  bless us with that, but we weren't really living our
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  vocations. And there there, you know, there
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  was an underlying like something missing, you know, in our lives.
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  And so that was like our first eight years of marriage.
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  And by that point we had three kids.
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  And then that takes us to 2020 where with the lockdowns were
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  like many people. When the sacraments were taken
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  away, it opened every a lot of people's eyes to what, you know,
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  you don't know what you got till it's gone.
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  And when the sacraments were gone from us, we really, it
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  almost, it almost gave us this grace to yearn for them more.
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  And when the masses came back, we fled to the traditional Latin
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  Mass and never looked back. And from that point on, it was
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  really a turning point in our lives.
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  I would say that's when everything changes.
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  That, that, that's when everything changed.
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  That's when the graces started flowing in our lives.
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  We finally were practicing our Catholic faith as God intended
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  for us. You know, I, I would say to some
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  people who are struggling to get to that starting point, I would
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  say like the only way I can explain it is supernatural
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  grace. You have to have that desire
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  initially yourself to want to become a St.
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  But once you have that desire, that's step one.
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  God will give you the graces you need to get there.
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  And so, but you do, you do need help.
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  You know, our ladies, the mediatrics of all graces.
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  So I would say to anybody out there, start with a daily
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  rosary. Then you can progress to more
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  devotions like the brown scapular miraculous metal.
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  But that happened with us. You know, we, we started
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  spending appropriate time, mental prayer.
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  We started catechizing our children properly.
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  We dove into the Saints, church history.
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  I always had a book by my bed. I never used to read.
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  It was always I tried to keep an edifying book by my bed to to
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  have you know, so you have edifying thoughts when you go to
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  bed. Catechisms of Trent I I read
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  that cover to cover another great book that was great a
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  nighttime reading was Terror of Demons by Kennedy Hall.
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  I love that book. It was great.
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  It's great. I recommend it for any head of
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  household, any man of the house. But yeah, devotions beginning to
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  attend Mass more than just Sunday.
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  And I mentioned all this because not just to promote the
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  traditional Latin Mass, but really that was the catalyst for
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  Jessica and I God knew that we were to face a battle just six
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  months later after we started. And he was giving us all the
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  tools we needed to face this battle.
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  And I truly believe looking back at a bird's eye view of
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  everything that happened, if we hadn't had that turning point
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  that summer, I'll probably wouldn't be sitting here talking
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  to you. I don't know if Jessica would
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  have had the graces she needed to to get through what we got
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  through. So I always like to just mention
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  that because it's so important in our lives.
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  Did you have any inkling during that time?
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  This is, I think during pandemic or post pandemic when you're
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  diving more deeply into your faith that there was going to be
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  a big trial to come. No, no, I mean, we just it was
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  summer 2020. We were just thankful to be back
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  in mass and things were starting to open up a little bit.
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  And obviously I never, we never would have thought.
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  I mean, nobody ever thinks that, right?
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  And and I was going to touch on that a little later, but you
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  know, you, a lot of people don't think and don't realize that
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  we're on borrowed time. I mean, we know not the hour.
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  Like it says in Scripture, we must attain our salvation in
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  fear and trembling. And yeah, even then, even though
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  we were still like early on in our journey and then we still
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  never, I think, I don't think we got to that point yet where we
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  we had that real like this could ever happen to us.
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  And then it did. When you and Jessica were diving
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  more deeply into your faith, were there some we mentioned
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  some things like rosary and reading the catechism?
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  Were there some family prayer routines that you did together
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  that you felt were really opening your family up to
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  Grace's? 100%, yeah.
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  So the daily rosary became our routine.
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  We still do to this day. I do with the kids.
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  Anybody who has young kids knows it's it's it's if anything, it's
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  a penance in and of itself. But I would say, you know, any
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  parents with young children stick with it because as they
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  get a little bit older, it starts to stick with them and,
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  and they become, you know, it becomes part of their lives.
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  That was the first one. And then we did the first
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  Saturdays. That's something we still to
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  this day, you know, Our Lady of Fatima made it very clear to us
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  what she would want us to do and, and Our Lady.
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  And when, when God's mom speaks, I listen.
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  That's how I, that's basically how I how I view it.
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  So a lot of Marian devotions that we practice as a family,
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  you know, the, the brown scapular, my, my kids wear the
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  brown scapular. And then there was the
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  catechism. So the catechism, we did the
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  Baltimore Catechism cover to cover a couple times with my
• 11:49
  older two kids. And I just noticed I do it once
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  a week, just on Sundays. In addition to the
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  homeschooling. I would just do an additional
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  just my own, you know, kind of random one and they just love
• 12:01
  talking. I noticed that these kids have
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  so many questions. It was pretty incredible.
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  And before we ever did that, you know, it was that was like a big
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  part of missing in their lives. So catechizing your kids, it's
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  a, it's a great way to bond with your children, but also like
• 12:15
  that also prepared them, I believe for what happened
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  because we had that like already line of communication and they
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  had that understanding, that baseline understanding of, you
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  know. Eternity and suffering.
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  And so, yeah. The bare minimum.
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  I'd say is daily rosary if any if I'd make a suggestion and
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  catechizing your children. Those two are so huge.
• 12:38
  What were the Can you share the circumstances of Jessica's first
• 12:41
  diagnosis? Yep.
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  So so about September 2020 she noticed an indentation on her
• 12:50
  right breast. She got it checked out, they
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  said it was all clear. Couple weeks later we got
• 12:55
  pregnant with Thomas, our 4th. And then a few weeks after that
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  she went to her OBGYN and said, and he asked anything new,
• 13:02
  anything interesting happened. She said, yeah, there was this
• 13:05
  dent I found in my breast and they said it was all clear and
• 13:07
  the OB actually told her maybe just get it rechecked.
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  And then she did. And then when she did at 14
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  weeks, December 16th, 2020, it was diagnosed as cancerous.
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  So that's how everything started.
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  Jessica promptly, as she always did, she was an intelligent,
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  very intelligent woman and. Very research based.
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  I mean, we have a medical background, so evidence based
• 13:31
  research and but but with a pro-life see, that's that's
• 13:35
  that's the thing she she sought out.
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  Pro-life sort resources that help women who are pregnant with
• 13:42
  their child, who have cancer and treatment options.
• 13:46
  And there's a there's an organization called Hope for Two
• 13:49
  and they led Jessica to doctor Elise Cardonic, who's a Saint of
• 13:52
  a woman, excellent Doctor Who spent Christmas Eve, spent a
• 13:55
  couple hours with Jessica pro bono and went over all the
• 13:58
  treatment options. She has pharmacological, non
• 14:00
  pharmacological, conventional, non conventional as a woman
• 14:04
  who's pregnant with cancer. And, you know, at that point we
• 14:06
  didn't know how severe the cancer was.
• 14:08
  But Jessica being Jessica, she had a notebook full of notes
• 14:10
  prepared. And I mentioned that because,
• 14:13
  you know, there are resources out there, and those are just
• 14:16
  two, but there are resources out there for people.
• 14:20
  So we. Then went to her first surgeon
• 14:23
  appointment and that surgeon made a comment that really
• 14:26
  rubbed us the wrong way where the surgeon said, you know, we
• 14:29
  can do surgery earlier. And if you lose the baby, that
• 14:33
  might be better than to did surgery a little later and lose
• 14:36
  the baby at 24 weeks and have a preemie and NICU or have a
• 14:39
  preemie and NICU instead of it's better to lose the baby than
• 14:41
  have a baby in NICU basically is what she said.
• 14:44
  And that was kind of, I remember shaking my head and Jessica was
• 14:46
  floored by that. We found a different surgeon,
• 14:49
  Needless to say. But a few weeks after that, at
• 14:51
  19 weeks, right after we saw an ultrasound of beautiful Thomas
• 14:54
  moving maternal fetal medicine doctor first, first appointment
• 14:58
  with him, first words out of his mouth.
• 15:00
  Just so you know, before we discuss anything, you should
• 15:03
  know that you have the option to terminate this pregnancy.
• 15:05
  Those are his words. This is the.
• 15:06
  Doctor supposed to care for, you know, so those are, those are 19
• 15:11
  weeks in 19 weeks. I'm moving on the ultrasound.
• 15:13
  It's pretty incredible. It was mind boggling and we were
• 15:15
  really upset. Jessica actually gave him a
• 15:18
  piece of her mind and Needless to say, we.
• 15:21
  What did she say? What did she say to the doctor?
• 15:23
  She said, why would you need to tell me that?
• 15:24
  What? Why?
• 15:25
  She said, I just want to know why.
• 15:26
  I mean, I understand you have to, but why would you tell me?
• 15:29
  He said, well, that's protocol. You know, some women need to
• 15:32
  know they have that option. And then she was like, what
• 15:34
  about all the other options? And she started going to the
• 15:36
  option she researched. And he was totally caught off
• 15:38
  guard because he probably wasn't prepared to face a patient like
• 15:41
  Jessica, who had the medical background she did.
• 15:43
  And he was almost like shrank in the room as we were talking to
• 15:46
  him. And he's like, I, I made a big
• 15:48
  mistake. But yeah, it's just incredible.
• 15:51
  It's a very unfortunate. It's very sad.
• 15:53
  It's very sad to know that all across the country, all across
• 15:55
  the world, doctors are saying this to people who have no idea
• 15:58
  and think that that's the best option.
• 16:01
  You know, the really the only perceived benefit of termination
• 16:05
  at that point would be So maybe she, Jessica, could do more
• 16:07
  testing, screening, possibly save her breast from our
• 16:10
  elaborate reconstruction. That's it.
• 16:12
  The possible, you know the the the determination.
• 16:17
  On the other side of it, like that's never talked about by
• 16:19
  those people. They don't even think about that
• 16:20
  part. And that's sad.
• 16:22
  And and you know, I don't want to be on here demonizing
• 16:24
  physicians. There's so many incredible
• 16:26
  physicians out there, as many as there are who just go by the
• 16:28
  protocol and blindly say this culture of death rhetoric.
• 16:31
  There's so many really excellent ones and.
• 16:33
  The. Lady who did Jessica's surgery
• 16:35
  was an incredible pro-life woman who who wanted to treat Jessica
• 16:39
  and the baby. And we did find doctors who did
• 16:42
  want to treat Jessica and the baby.
• 16:43
  You just got to find them, that's all.
• 16:45
  What was that treatment plan? Look, what did it look like for
• 16:48
  Jessica to have a pro-life treatment plan?
• 16:50
  Well, she's suffering breast cancer, but she's also growing
• 16:53
  and nurturing. Tommy, your youngest.
• 16:55
  Yeah. So just knowing that the doctors
• 17:00
  got your back and is not going to try to suggest anything, you
• 17:02
  know, that that just just that in of itself gave her that, you
• 17:05
  know, it made her relax. And then with armed with the
• 17:07
  knowledge that we had, we were, we would run by the options with
• 17:11
  each doctor and each doctor had different opinion.
• 17:12
  You know, maybe one doctor would say, maybe I wouldn't do chemo,
• 17:15
  another doctor say I do chemo, I do this, you know, whatever.
• 17:18
  So ultimately with, with many different consults, many
• 17:21
  different opinions with these pro-life doctors, we came up
• 17:24
  with a plan that will, we'll do a few rounds of chemo while she
• 17:27
  had a few months left in the pregnancy because, well, I
• 17:32
  skipped the part where when she did the surgery, they found a 13
• 17:35
  centimeter tumor and cancer all over her lymph nodes.
• 17:38
  After we found that, then she was deemed basically terminal at
• 17:41
  that point. And that's when.
• 17:44
  Well, she's pregnant with Tommy, right?
• 17:46
  So she had she had the surgery January 8th, 2021.
• 17:49
  She. Still had about four months left
• 17:51
  of pregnancy and when they found the tumor to be 13 centimeters,
• 17:54
  43 lymph nodes positive, it basically indicated that most
• 17:58
  likely it's all over organs and so.
• 18:01
  That's why we just ended up ultimately decided to do the
• 18:03
  four rounds of chemo because that was an option we discussed
• 18:05
  if we needed to go there. She also did a whole revamp of
• 18:09
  her diet and did some non pharmacological treatments the
• 18:12
  remainder of her pregnancy, but all was highly monitored.
• 18:16
  She was like highly, highly monitored during it.
• 18:18
  And you know, personally, at that point, she was, she was
• 18:23
  devastated, of course. But I was so just inspired by
• 18:26
  her, how quickly she picked up her cross.
• 18:29
  I mean, she had her cross right there and she picked it up.
• 18:33
  She didn't hesitate right away. And.
• 18:36
  Not only did she do that, she was, she was proclaiming our,
• 18:39
  you know, the goodness of our Lord during it.
• 18:41
  And I believe that's a big reason why the miracle was
• 18:44
  granted when ultimately Tommy was born and she did her scans
• 18:47
  and there was no cancer found anywhere.
• 18:50
  Wow, cancer free after delivering Tommy.
• 18:54
  Yes, so Tommy himself. Is born.
• 18:56
  Yeah, he was. Born healthy, stills healthy to
• 18:58
  this day after going through his surgeries, all that chemo, God
• 19:04
  protected him, God protected Jessica.
• 19:07
  And when Jessica had that miracle, she wasted no time
• 19:11
  again proclaiming our Lord and his goodness.
• 19:13
  And she did many different talks around the country, different
• 19:17
  Catholic churches, just proclaiming, you know, being a
• 19:20
  witness to. Accepting your cross and also a
• 19:23
  witness to anybody who's who's got who's pregnant with cancer
• 19:28
  about, you know, the pro-life. She spoke at Abby Johnson's
• 19:31
  pro-life conference in June 2022 and many different people were
• 19:36
  touched by her witness and how she, you know, she stood up for
• 19:40
  life and. And yeah, and so there there was
• 19:44
  a good period of time after that where she she had clear scans
• 19:47
  for pretty much all of the year 2022 and she was doing well and
• 19:51
  we were enjoying life. Lamar, I want to ask you about
• 19:54
  two moments during that first diagnosis that I want to kind of
• 19:58
  hear how Jessica responded and how you watched how she
• 20:03
  responded during those moments. And then I want to talk about it
• 20:05
  later on, some of the struggles that she had because I think so
• 20:08
  much of her journey that she did end up sharing on her Instagram.
• 20:11
  We're going to talk about that in a minute.
• 20:13
  It was just so powerful for people to even watch her
• 20:15
  progression and just deep trust in our Lord.
• 20:18
  And so starting off when she had that surgery after the first
• 20:22
  diagnosis to remove some of the cancer and they discovered that
• 20:25
  she was terminal that had spread throughout her body.
• 20:27
  She's at this point just a few months pregnant.
• 20:30
  You have three other children. How did she receive that news?
• 20:33
  How did that news hit you? So behind the scenes, I'll,
• 20:37
  I'll, I'll talk a little bit behind the scenes and what she
• 20:39
  publicly posted literally a day after her surgery, January 9th.
• 20:43
  It's still on her Instagram. I personally that, that we had a
• 20:47
  good cry. I remember after we came home
• 20:50
  that day from the surgery, I myself personally just felt, you
• 20:55
  know, you feel that like, where do we go from here?
• 20:57
  Like the future. So uncertain at that point, you
• 20:59
  know, when I look back and my mind was just all over the
• 21:01
  place, like, how's the future going to look?
• 21:03
  Is our baby going to be OK? Is my wife going to be OK?
• 21:06
  How am I going to handle this? My other kids were so young
• 21:08
  still. All that goes through your head
• 21:10
  where, you know, the human nature, fear and doubt.
• 21:13
  And I would say I, I don't think neither of us ever had any kind
• 21:17
  of anger towards God. It was more just we had our
• 21:19
  moment of like grieving that news.
• 21:22
  And then it didn't take long, maybe that it was two days
• 21:25
  later, I believe we went to Sunday Mass and we were just
• 21:28
  like, OK, what? Let's come up with a plan, both
• 21:31
  spiritually and, you know, temporally.
• 21:33
  What do we do here? And this is what she posted one
• 21:37
  day after her surgery. My walk to Calvary has begun.
• 21:40
  I am happy I'm being called to carry a cross and do something
• 21:43
  with it. I'm praying for the clarity on
• 21:44
  what that is exactly. Through suffering, I've never
• 21:47
  felt closer to God than I do now.
• 21:49
  He's trying to sanctify me. He expects more of me.
• 21:51
  He's helping me get there. So this was her mindset after
• 21:55
  the dust settled and, and mine as well.
• 21:57
  And, and we helped each other. I mean, we, it's again, I, I
• 22:02
  think it's supernatural grace. Like this is where the
• 22:04
  supernatural grace has come in. When you can't explain it and I
• 22:08
  really can't explain how we were able to just pick up, you know,
• 22:11
  get back on our feet after that news and just keep going.
• 22:14
  I can't explain it. How did you explain it to the
• 22:17
  kids? Jessica's diagnosis, Yeah.
• 22:20
  They were super young at that point.
• 22:21
  My oldest was only He just turned 6, all right.
• 22:26
  He wasn't even 6. He was 5, so we had like a 5
• 22:28
  year old, a three-year old and then a one year old barely.
• 22:31
  So they were super young. They didn't know what's going
• 22:33
  on. They were, you know, they were
• 22:36
  we, we explained mommy's sick. But that's pretty much it.
• 22:39
  They really understood more as time went on as the older ones
• 22:41
  got a little older. So after that diagnosis of that
• 22:46
  this is terminal, you have a battle plan together with
• 22:49
  Jessica. What did that look like?
• 22:51
  Was there a certain, I mean you, you, you read her beautiful
• 22:54
  words in a disposition of her heart.
• 22:57
  What practically, what are some of the practical things that you
• 22:59
  guys did during that season while you're preparing to
• 23:03
  deliver Tommy? She's sick and you're trying to
• 23:06
  she's preparing for eternity. She believes she's terminal.
• 23:09
  She's could be preparing for eternity here.
• 23:12
  Yeah, we we had a lot of support from family to help Jessica, her
• 23:17
  diet. She completely revamped her
• 23:19
  diet. She went on a super clean diet
• 23:22
  daily. You know, she, she said often
• 23:23
  like my life has become a prayer.
• 23:25
  And this is true. We went, we went to as many
• 23:29
  different. We, we, we were always in
• 23:32
  church. I mean that that's how I can
• 23:33
  best describe it. Like we were always in church in
• 23:36
  between our appointments. We'd always try to sneak in and
• 23:38
  go get a blessing from a priest or, and it was tough.
• 23:42
  I mean, it was a daily thing. I mean, some days were harder
• 23:44
  than others. But we, we tried our best to
• 23:47
  also like we would read, we do spiritual readings together.
• 23:49
  I remember that year, I believe we did the consecration of Saint
• 23:52
  Joseph. And there was a few other things
• 23:55
  we did together, like devotions together.
• 23:57
  We were doing the way of the cross devotion.
• 24:00
  And there's so many things. She just.
• 24:03
  It was like such a crash course for us during that time and just
• 24:07
  like suffering and how to to move forward through suffering.
• 24:15
  And it really we relied completely on divine Providence.
• 24:18
  I mean, we, it was a lot of prayer, a lot of prayer and hard
• 24:21
  prayer, like intense prayer, but we were able to put our head,
• 24:25
  like lay her head at night knowing God's in control and
• 24:28
  this is his will. And again, that was just the
• 24:31
  beginning of many other times we had to do that same thing.
• 24:35
  Looking back at that time, it was no different than what we
• 24:39
  did. You know, when she was in the
• 24:40
  last months, what I've been doing now, it ultimately comes
• 24:43
  down to when you, when you get to a point where you realize how
• 24:49
  fleeting this life is and how suffering is temporal.
• 24:53
  There's always an end to suffering, but eternity is
• 24:55
  forever. And you know the thought that
• 24:57
  none of us make it out of here alive.
• 24:59
  We, we all, we all have to prepare.
• 25:02
  The most important part of our most important time of our life,
• 25:04
  most important event is our judgement and keeping our
• 25:08
  particular judgment ahead of us every day.
• 25:10
  St. Alphonsus de Liguori,
• 25:12
  Preparation for death. Excellent book resource for
• 25:14
  that. That was 1.
• 25:17
  Thing we both read cover to cover during that time also on
• 25:21
  YouTube, the four last things, death, judgment, heaven and
• 25:24
  hell. I highly highly recommend.
• 25:27
  During that time there was Father Isaac Mary Aurelia on
• 25:30
  YouTube. He was.
• 25:31
  He does great reflections. On death, judgment, heaven and
• 25:34
  hell, and. No holds barred, no sugar
• 25:37
  coating. And it's, it's excellent because
• 25:39
  it just, when you have that perspective, it actually for me
• 25:42
  personally and for Jessica, it helped us suffer better because
• 25:45
  we know like that we're going somewhere.
• 25:47
  It's not, we're just sitting here being tortured.
• 25:50
  And yeah, there was a, there was a mental battle going on.
• 25:53
  Like we didn't know if she had cancer everywhere or not.
• 25:55
  We have to basically trust in our Lord fully for like 4 months
• 25:58
  before he was born and trust that our baby's going to be
• 26:00
  healthy. And but to get your mind and.
• 26:02
  Is that because you just to clarify, that's because you
• 26:04
  delayed scans, additional scans to protect Tommy, right?
• 26:08
  You, you. Yeah, it's not.
• 26:10
  It's you just can't scan when you're pregnant.
• 26:12
  You can't do the scans to the full diagnosis when you're
• 26:14
  pregnant. That's precisely why that's a
• 26:17
  primary reason why. Those other doctors suggest
• 26:19
  termination. So in a way you know you're
• 26:22
  exercising trust because because essentially the the thought
• 26:25
  process is terminate the baby. It's horrible to say that
• 26:28
  terminate the baby, scan the woman and then treat the woman,
• 26:32
  right, Completely disregarding the baby.
• 26:34
  So, so we, we, you know, you forego that.
• 26:39
  And again, Jessica, we, when we did, when you found out, like
• 26:42
  how big the tumor was and, and how many lymph nodes are
• 26:44
  involved. That's why we, she was initially
• 26:46
  not going to do the, the chemo, but we did the chemo because the
• 26:49
  doctors were telling us this could be everywhere.
• 26:51
  And you know, just give her a fighting shot not knowing.
• 26:54
  But yeah, there's a lot of trust in our Lord.
• 26:57
  And it was by doing that, those exercises and trust with our
• 27:00
  Lord you, it prepares you again for future battles which we did
• 27:05
  end up facing. How did you and Jessica navigate
• 27:09
  fears or anxieties about your kids?
• 27:11
  You have three really little ones at home.
• 27:13
  You're about to deliver your 4th.
• 27:15
  She's terminally ill. I'm sure there's a lot of mental
• 27:20
  struggle and emotional struggle around caring for those kids in
• 27:23
  the future that those kids might have.
• 27:25
  Yeah. You know that the, the biggest
• 27:27
  thing is to to understand is these children, God entrust
• 27:31
  these children to us as parents, but they're not our children.
• 27:34
  They're our Lord's children. This the Scripture passage about
• 27:38
  the birds, how our Lord takes care of the birds.
• 27:40
  And and then that's a big win for us because we knew that.
• 27:44
  Our Lord will. Take care of us somehow.
• 27:45
  We just knew somehow we'd be taken care of.
• 27:48
  And that's kind of what I'm doing now, to be honest.
• 27:51
  I'm sitting here as a widow, widower as a widower, and my
• 27:55
  future looks so uncertain right now on paper, but eternally I
• 27:58
  know God has. It will take.
• 28:00
  Care of me and God will take care of my children.
• 28:01
  I mean, anybody who's been in my shoes knows that when you have
• 28:05
  when you're a single parent, your, your routines are gone
• 28:09
  missing. A mom is so huge in a home.
• 28:11
  There's so much that goes into the loss, but you still at the
• 28:15
  end of the day, have that trust. You have to have that trust that
• 28:18
  our Lord is in control of everything.
• 28:20
  And so that's what it boils down to.
• 28:21
  That's really it, knowing that these are our Lord's children
• 28:24
  and he is in control of everything, no matter how things
• 28:27
  look. And I often I love The Passion
• 28:30
  of the Christ, my favorite movie, and I love it because
• 28:34
  it's so real. I love it because it's the most
• 28:36
  realistic depiction, I believe, of our Lord's crucifixion.
• 28:39
  And in that movie, it gets ugly, as you know, if you've anybody
• 28:42
  who's seen it, it gets ugly. And to be honest, that
• 28:45
  reflecting on that ugliness of the suffering helps me, because
• 28:49
  suffering is ugly suffering. Can get ugly.
• 28:51
  But look at the glory that came afterwards.
• 28:53
  I mean, so as ugly as suffering can get, as uncertain as it can
• 28:56
  get, as dark as it can get, there's always glory if you
• 29:00
  participate in our Lord's will and pick up your cross and keep
• 29:03
  going. And what did our Lord do?
• 29:04
  He picked up, picked up his cross, kept going, even though
• 29:06
  there was bones hanging out, even though there was flesh
• 29:09
  coming out, even though his, you know, and the passion didn't
• 29:12
  even do it justice of what really happened.
• 29:15
  So reflecting on our Lord's passion too.
• 29:17
  Is a big help and that that really Jessica especially with
• 29:20
  the physical pain she went through she really reflected a
• 29:22
  lot on her passion and she posts a lot about that on her page
• 29:24
  especially towards the end when she's going through physical
• 29:26
  pain the. Mental anguish that we had
• 29:29
  during that time was. More mental than physical, I
• 29:32
  would say. But either way, it's suffering
• 29:35
  and, and you just have to keep going 1 foot in front of the
• 29:37
  other, trusting in our Lord, no matter how ugly or dark it gets,
• 29:39
  no matter how bleak it looks. And that's, that's something
• 29:43
  that that's the way we were able to get through it.
• 29:47
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• 29:50
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  three months free. When she discovered she was
• 30:36
  fully cancer free after Tommy was born, you guys had a year,
• 30:41
  give or take, of just peace. I mean, there wasn't cancer
• 30:44
  hanging over her head and your head in the same way.
• 30:47
  What was it like navigating that year and then finding out when
• 30:51
  the cancer was back? You know, that year of 2022,
• 30:54
  I'll look back on chair. So many memories.
• 30:58
  It was such a beautiful year. We, we, we lived pretty normally
• 31:00
  that year. It was the last pretty much
• 31:02
  normal year we had. We went on a vacation.
• 31:06
  We and meanwhile, Jessica was like evangelizing people,
• 31:10
  thousands of people across the world, but she was still made,
• 31:13
  made time to, you know, really enjoy.
• 31:15
  We enjoyed our time together as husband and wife.
• 31:16
  We went on, we, we, you know, our 10 year anniversary
• 31:20
  honeymoon, everything we did together, I cherish, I cherish
• 31:24
  it so much and especially these days.
• 31:27
  And when it came back, you know, in a way we were sad, but it was
• 31:33
  different. It was different than the first
• 31:34
  time because we've been through something before the trial.
• 31:37
  That we were in before a year and a half earlier strengthened
• 31:40
  us or prepared us, I would say prepared us.
• 31:44
  It still wasn't easy. There was a lot of uncertainty,
• 31:47
  but the way it all happened was pretty gradual.
• 31:50
  I mean 2023 most of the year was spent either in hospital.
• 31:53
  Or she wasn't 100%. The cancer came into her lungs,
• 31:56
  then eventually went to her bones and then her heart.
• 32:00
  The last, the first three months of 2024 leading up to her death,
• 32:03
  she was mostly in hospital. We didn't anticipate that it was
• 32:06
  going to happen that way. But with cancer, you just any,
• 32:09
  any cancer patient will tell you just it's a very unpredictable
• 32:12
  journey. She had a very aggressive
• 32:13
  cancer. She had a PAL BU2 mutation,
• 32:15
  which is a very specific mutation that where where you're
• 32:19
  pretty much fighting an uphill battle.
• 32:21
  And you know, we always knew that the possibility of cancer
• 32:23
  coming back was there. We always knew that.
• 32:25
  And Jessica, because she knew that.
• 32:27
  That's why she never ceased. Her page.
• 32:30
  That's why she didn't just stop her page when she was feeling
• 32:33
  good. She kept going.
• 32:34
  She kept trying to do our Lord's will because she, in the back of
• 32:37
  her mind, knew. And I knew too.
• 32:38
  As cancer often does, it can come back.
• 32:42
  When you guys, after you had that beautiful year and then you
• 32:45
  first discovered the cancer was back, what was that like?
• 32:48
  How did what was the emotional and spiritual state you guys
• 32:51
  were in when you got that news that this, this year of kind of
• 32:54
  peace and quiet is done and now we're back in the fight?
• 32:58
  Tears Jessica was very frustrated at first you know
• 33:01
  your human nature takes over and she's frustrated and she
• 33:05
  definitely had her moments where she was like why God you know
• 33:07
  she definitely had those moments and so did I I'm not going to
• 33:11
  sit here and act like we didn't we definitely did we definitely
• 33:14
  had moments of frustration we definitely had it was a tough
• 33:17
  tough like to take that news you know to know that OK the good
• 33:20
  time you know the. Break is over and now you're
• 33:22
  back at it because it was so good.
• 33:25
  It was so nice to have that year where everything was normal.
• 33:29
  But ultimately, I would say the thing that helped us the most
• 33:33
  kind of move past that was understanding, accepting that
• 33:37
  heaven is our home. This isn't our home.
• 33:39
  And I think from that point on, Jessica's, Jessica's mission
• 33:45
  shifted from preparation, from suffering to suffering and
• 33:49
  preparation for death. Even though she didn't know when
• 33:51
  she was going to die, a lot of the content she posted was
• 33:54
  around that preparation for death.
• 33:56
  And in a way it was, it was a, it was a somber thing to talk
• 34:00
  about, but also it was, it was a beautiful thing because a lot of
• 34:03
  people nowadays don't want to talk about that.
• 34:04
  And we live in a unfortunately in a modernist Church of Nice,
• 34:10
  which which, you know, we, we don't like to talk about the
• 34:12
  hard things. The Church of Nice.
• 34:13
  That was from Harrison Bucker's speech.
• 34:15
  Highly recommend anybody. Read that excellent speech.
• 34:18
  But yeah, we, we, we really. She really dove into preparing
• 34:24
  for death when that happened and that whole year and the talks we
• 34:27
  would have personally would be around that.
• 34:29
  She almost talked as if she was going to die.
• 34:31
  And I, I often didn't like it was uncomfortable to talk about
• 34:35
  and, and in the back of my mind I was consoling her, but I was
• 34:38
  like sad. As anybody who's been a
• 34:39
  caregiver would know, that's a challenge.
• 34:42
  That's a pretty, pretty common challenge where you're you're
• 34:44
  dying spouse or suffering spouse will talk about death, but you
• 34:47
  yourself would want to keep that.
• 34:49
  You know, we always prayed for a miracle.
• 34:51
  We always continue to pray for healing, but we also wanted to
• 34:54
  be prepared so that that really. How did you sorry?
• 34:59
  How did you navigate that with the kids?
• 35:00
  The kids are a little older now. Did you tell them the cancer was
• 35:03
  back? How did you make decisions about
• 35:05
  what to include the kids on? Yeah, so we were wide open with
• 35:09
  the kids. They fully knew everything at
• 35:12
  that point, especially when she went in and it was May.
• 35:16
  In May 2023, last year, she was in hospital for a couple months.
• 35:19
  That was the first time they really saw her physically at a
• 35:23
  brink, You know, I mean even bleeding up to that March, April
• 35:26
  2023, she was starting to like even on her own birthday in
• 35:30
  March, she was almost she was in the hospital that day.
• 35:33
  But the kids started, you know, after these again, when you
• 35:38
  speak about openly about the faith with the kids and, and you
• 35:41
  also talk about the four last things with the kids, death,
• 35:43
  judgement, heaven and hell. These kids, they, they want to
• 35:48
  learn these things. They want to absorb them.
• 35:49
  And, and they just almost like it became just matter of fact
• 35:53
  they were talking about and they get sad to see mom in the
• 35:55
  hospital. You know, she's not
• 35:57
  participating in these events anymore.
• 36:00
  Initially it was sad for them and I talked to them and then
• 36:04
  after time went on, they almost got accustomed to the fact that
• 36:08
  came mommy's sick. And this is what we're going to.
• 36:10
  This is just what we're living with.
• 36:12
  And then it was really towards the end of the beginning of 2024
• 36:15
  this year where the possibility of death was, was actually
• 36:19
  imminent that that then I was starting to really prepare them
• 36:22
  myself. I'd have to talk to them about
• 36:24
  that. It's and, and I'd say, you know,
• 36:27
  mommy could be meeting Jesus soon and this is possible.
• 36:32
  And I would always talk to them about it.
• 36:34
  And the more I talk to them about it, the better because,
• 36:37
  you know, they weren't caught off guard when it ended up
• 36:39
  happening. And they were, again, I think
• 36:42
  mentally prepared, spiritually prepared.
• 36:44
  And that's so important because I believe it if it was and we
• 36:47
  had, that was a grace actually from God.
• 36:49
  You know, I believe it's a grace from God to have to be able to
• 36:53
  prepare for your death and to prepare for a loved one's death.
• 36:56
  There's so many cases I know of sudden deaths and it's so
• 36:58
  heartbreaking. And my heart goes out to those
• 37:00
  people because I can't imagine being like hit with grief
• 37:03
  suddenly, you know, car accidents or heart attacks going
• 37:06
  through what I'm going through now.
• 37:07
  That's like an additional trauma, I believe.
• 37:09
  And but so, so in a way, we had that as it was a grace from God
• 37:13
  for Jessica and for us to prepare gradually for it.
• 37:16
  And and yeah, that that's that, that's what I would say we we
• 37:22
  did with the kids, just keeping an open line of communication at
• 37:24
  all times. Jessica's Instagram account has
• 37:28
  reached millions of people. It her videos have been viewed
• 37:31
  millions of times and she basically chronicled her fight
• 37:35
  with cancer. And she called the Instagram
• 37:37
  account blessed by cancer, which I think to a lot of people is a
• 37:41
  foreign concept to be blessed by such a ugly disease that can
• 37:46
  kill you. Why did she call it blessed by
• 37:49
  cancer? And what was Jessica's heart
• 37:52
  behind this Instagram account and the content that she was
• 37:54
  creating throughout her suffering?
• 37:56
  Yeah. So, so that that that's come up
• 37:58
  quite a bit. You know, there's been people
• 38:01
  there. Be people.
• 38:03
  Non Catholics, even Catholics, secular people, how can you call
• 38:06
  cancer a blessing, you know? To answer to.
• 38:09
  Really understand this question. You really have to understand
• 38:11
  the Catholic faith, the truth, the the basic teachings of the
• 38:13
  Catholic faith. Obviously cancer is not a
• 38:15
  blessing, but like I said before, from an eternal
• 38:20
  perspective, death, judgement, heaven and hell.
• 38:23
  If we accept the church teachings from old that teach us
• 38:27
  that most will not be saved. And you, you really reflect on
• 38:31
  the four last things, that's when you could.
• 38:34
  And then you reflect on suffering.
• 38:36
  That's when you start to understand it.
• 38:37
  Saint John Chrysostom, for example, talks about constants
• 38:41
  in Opal when it was a Christian city.
• 38:42
  And he says out of this thickly populate populated city with
• 38:46
  thousands of inhabitants, not 100 people will be saved.
• 38:49
  I even doubt there will be as many as that.
• 38:51
  So Saint John Chrysostom is saying out of thousands, not
• 38:54
  even 100 would be saved. That's just the truth that many
• 38:57
  people again in this, this Church of nicest modernist
• 38:59
  church that we have, unfortunately, it's not being
• 39:02
  preached. And if we come at it from that
• 39:05
  lens and also from the lens of heaven and hell, if you do, if
• 39:10
  you look at, you know, think about heaven and hell, we're all
• 39:11
  going to end up in heaven and hell.
• 39:14
  And then you have this suffering.
• 39:15
  Suffering is temporal. There's an end to it.
• 39:17
  Heaven and hell, there's no end. So if if by our cross it becomes
• 39:22
  the latter to heaven, if suffering, suffering then can be
• 39:25
  seen as a blessing from God and. Because God wants to separate us
• 39:29
  from this world, to detach us from worldly and human
• 39:31
  consolation, because his consolation is a lot greater.
• 39:35
  He wants to give us so much more than human consolation.
• 39:38
  So you reflect on all that you, you really understand that.
• 39:41
  And then you can understand why it's called Blessed by cancer.
• 39:44
  Because from an eternal perspective, that's exactly what
• 39:46
  Jessica did. She separated herself from human
• 39:49
  consolation. And now she's in a place where I
• 39:52
  like to believe she's, she's in heaven and she's in a place
• 39:57
  happier than I could ever make her, you know?
• 39:59
  And that's just, that's just the truth.
• 40:02
  And how did she get there? She picked up her cross and
• 40:05
  followed our Lord. She suffered the right way.
• 40:07
  And again, I feel like this day and age, it's just
• 40:12
  unfortunately, people are on 2 ends of the spectrum.
• 40:16
  Either they're too much relying on Divine Mercy, leading to
• 40:19
  lukewarmness and presumption, or they're too much relying on
• 40:22
  divine justice, leading to despair and scruples.
• 40:26
  I think you can't be in either of these extremes to understand
• 40:29
  the faith. You have to understand that our
• 40:30
  Lord is is merciful, but he's also just and that's what
• 40:33
  Jessica preached a lot too. And and that's just the truth.
• 40:36
  And so we must attain our salvation in fear and trembling.
• 40:40
  And you know, you have all that in mind.
• 40:43
  Cancer ended up being a blessing for Jessica's soul, for us
• 40:46
  suffering left on earth, suffering her children, myself.
• 40:50
  Now we have our cross and you know.
• 40:53
  This is now my ladder to heaven. This is our children's ladder to
• 40:56
  heaven. Suffering is again such a short
• 41:00
  period of time, Saint John Vianney says.
• 41:02
  Why stop suffering now? Think of all the souls out there
• 41:04
  that I have to make reparation for so they can save their
• 41:06
  souls. Saint Augustine, our oh Lord,
• 41:10
  enabled me to see more and more into the misery of this life
• 41:12
  that I may thus be. Urged to strive for freedom and
• 41:14
  glory in the Kingdom. Jessica herself, April 8th, she
• 41:18
  says cancer did not rob me. God chose to take my story on a
• 41:21
  massive detour and I trust it's for the ultimate good and his
• 41:24
  own glory. So again.
• 41:29
  Her story is one of she she conquer she she was able to
• 41:32
  figure it out. Jessica did, I believe and she
• 41:34
  show she showed thousands and millions of people.
• 41:36
  Like you said, there's a way, you know.
• 41:39
  You know, there's a way through suffering, not to run away from
• 41:42
  it, but they face it head on and the way through again, it's the
• 41:45
  latter to heaven. That's what I believe.
• 41:46
  And that's what that's what's taught by our church basic
• 41:48
  teachings. And so, yeah, so for for a
• 41:51
  secular or non Catholic or even a Catholic who just doesn't
• 41:54
  really understand the faith, that Blessed by Cancer wouldn't
• 41:57
  make sense. But if you really understand, if
• 41:59
  you really dive into it and reflect on it, then it would
• 42:02
  make sense. What was the what were some of
• 42:06
  the graces that you saw evident in your wife?
• 42:10
  You've talked about peace and and trust in our Lord, but are
• 42:13
  there is there any other maybe a moment where you saw, wow, the
• 42:16
  grace is really real for us during that suffering?
• 42:20
  So Jessica, if someone is tell me, describe Jessica in one
• 42:23
  sentence, I'd say an extraordinarily talented woman
• 42:26
  with a heart of gold who completely abandoned her will,
• 42:29
  united it with our Lords. And this is how she helped
• 42:33
  thousands across the world strengthen their faith.
• 42:35
  She was so talented. Anybody whoever met this woman
• 42:38
  just natural. She was a natural.
• 42:40
  She had a she was funny, she was smart.
• 42:42
  She was God gave her so much. She was she she she would be
• 42:47
  able to whip up these Instagram reels within seconds.
• 42:49
  Just boom boom, boom. And now that I'm managing your
• 42:51
  Instagram, I have more appreciation for what she did,
• 42:55
  what she did though that that I saw with my.
• 42:57
  Very own eyes, knowing her for 12 years.
• 42:59
  See, that's the thing, A lot of people seen her at the end of
• 43:02
  her life when she reached that level of holiness.
• 43:05
  But I saw her her whole life and I saw the transformation.
• 43:07
  And those talents she had from the beginning, you know, were
• 43:11
  used for business, were used for being social and socializing and
• 43:15
  enjoying life. But then she used those talents
• 43:17
  for God. Seeing that, seeing a woman use
• 43:20
  her talents and give them all to God, and then seeing what
• 43:22
  happens when you do that, she's just proof that any talent you
• 43:26
  might have. If you give it to our Lord and
• 43:28
  do His will perfectly, as perfect as you can, incredible
• 43:32
  things can happen. And that's what happened here.
• 43:35
  You know, she didn't complain much.
• 43:37
  She with her suffering. She she did every everything she
• 43:40
  could to offer up her suffering. And then again, like I said
• 43:44
  before, she showing us how to prepare for death.
• 43:49
  You know, it's not about how you start, but how you finish.
• 43:52
  And that's something that we should all keep in mind, no
• 43:56
  matter how far you fall in, no matter where you are in your
• 43:58
  spiritual life right now. Look to Jessica as an example of
• 44:02
  someone who again, we went like when from the time we met as
• 44:06
  Catholics in name only to the end.
• 44:09
  It was just an incredible transformation with my own eyes
• 44:11
  that I witnessed and it's that inspires me till till this day
• 44:14
  to, you know, to continue. I mean, look at Saint Augustine,
• 44:18
  look at Saint Paul. Our Lord never gives up on any,
• 44:22
  any soul and, and any soul at any moment can, can choose to
• 44:25
  become a St. and that's what Jessica did.
• 44:31
  I just, we just have to remember to participate with by remaining
• 44:34
  in in state of grace and committing to prayer.
• 44:36
  And we have to do the hard work. It's hard work, that's the
• 44:39
  thing. And, and Jessica made it look
• 44:41
  easy, but it's not easy. It's very hard work.
• 44:43
  And I got a lot of appreciation for that too, especially now
• 44:47
  that I've been three months into this journey of being, of being
• 44:50
  widowed, that I, I just have more appreciation even more now
• 44:55
  about what she did. She had so much to say and she
• 44:58
  wrote so much throughout her Blessed by Cancer Instagram
• 45:01
  account. And then when she would give
• 45:03
  talks or she would otherwise communicate, are there any other
• 45:06
  things that she said or would say that you remember that you
• 45:09
  want to share? Well, the big the big thing that
• 45:14
  she became famous for was onward.
• 45:16
  That was her phrase Enoch. Shout out to Enoch.
• 45:19
  He did a great beautiful song tribute to her.
• 45:21
  Beautiful song. I'll check it out on YouTube.
• 45:25
  She that that phrase, just that, just that word onward because so
• 45:30
  many times we got knocked down. I mean, there's so many times we
• 45:33
  got bad news, bad news from the doctor, bad news.
• 45:38
  She had a set back. She had there was so many times
• 45:42
  I can't even count. But what we did our, our motto
• 45:45
  was, you know, you can you, you fall down, but it's all about
• 45:50
  how you get back up. And this is what I'm going
• 45:53
  through right now. And this is what sticks with me
• 45:55
  the most because she, I know that that's that's what she
• 45:59
  would want me to do right now when I have my tough days, you
• 46:02
  know, to experience them, to let feel the grief.
• 46:04
  But then she would also want me to move, move onward.
• 46:08
  And and because, you know, really onward is not just about
• 46:11
  moving onward, because as long as God has you on this earth.
• 46:14
  As long as you're. Breathing.
• 46:15
  He wants something from you. And even though Jessica's not
• 46:19
  here, there's still many millions around the world
• 46:22
  suffering, millions around the world who need prayers, who are
• 46:24
  lost spiritually in spiritual battles.
• 46:26
  The devil, the enemy doesn't sleep.
• 46:29
  And we must always be on guard and prepared.
• 46:31
  And and that's what really what onward means to me is, is
• 46:35
  there's so much at stake. There's so much at stake, so
• 46:37
  many souls at stake. We, you know, I can't just sit
• 46:40
  here and wallow. And when I have 4 souls that
• 46:44
  depend on me and, and with her page to Speaking of her page,
• 46:49
  you know, that's something I've adopted now as carrying on her
• 46:53
  page because it's still helping a lot of people.
• 46:55
  And there's still many people who need prayers, many people
• 46:57
  who need, who are suffering still.
• 46:59
  And that didn't stop. And so that's the biggest thing
• 47:02
  I got from Jessica is, is to keep going forward, no matter
• 47:06
  how bleak. Again, no matter.
• 47:08
  And that's that, that inspiration that she got, she
• 47:10
  gave came from the cross, came from our Lord's passion.
• 47:14
  You really meditate our Lord's passion.
• 47:16
  Like I said, it's ugly and you just, you have to keep going.
• 47:20
  You have to keep going. That's what he did.
• 47:21
  Our Lord kept going and that's what I have to do.
• 47:25
  And that's, that's what I encourage.
• 47:26
  That's the message really. The, the core message of, of, of
• 47:29
  what Jessica taught is, is to keep going no matter what.
• 47:32
  Trust in our Lord. Are there any stories that
• 47:35
  you've heard since Jessica started her account and and
• 47:38
  especially after her passing now of people and how her words, her
• 47:43
  example have impacted them? Hundreds of stories I can't too
• 47:46
  much to go into. I I like by keeping her page
• 47:50
  alive. I've been getting messages
• 47:53
  constantly and a route from around the world.
• 47:56
  It's pretty incredible. It's incredible to see what she
• 47:58
  did and the one I can. Any has any stuck out to you?
• 48:03
  Well there was there was one who wasn't wasn't literally an
• 48:07
  atheist who is completely interfaith right now because of
• 48:11
  of Jessica's witness. Many people who are suffering
• 48:14
  with cancer at really connected with Jessica and yeah, I would
• 48:20
  say probably there there's yeah, I too many to go into.
• 48:24
  But yeah, they'll probably be the atheist was the one that
• 48:27
  just popped into my mind now it it it's just so inspiring.
• 48:31
  It's so inspiring to see again a woman use her talents giving it
• 48:34
  to God, and it's literally helping God through her.
• 48:37
  God through Jessica, changed thousands of people's lives.
• 48:42
  Amazing. And Lamar, how has it been since
• 48:44
  her passing, you've been sharing, beginning to share
• 48:47
  about your grief and about your experience now being a widower
• 48:51
  with these beautiful kids. How has that been like for you?
• 48:54
  I know it's pretty fresh still and I so appreciate you coming
• 48:57
  on the show to talk about it, but what is that experience been
• 48:59
  like for you? Yeah.
• 49:01
  So first and foremost, I'd like to say that.
• 49:08
  You know, I, I'm just a Sinner. I'm just a Sinner like everybody
• 49:13
  else. And and I, I humbly say this
• 49:18
  because I, I just, you know, I feel like God.
• 49:21
  Has putting me this? Through this for a reason.
• 49:25
  It's not easy and you know, there's no way around it.
• 49:28
  It's extremely difficult when you're married with someone 12
• 49:32
  years, you become one person, you literally become one flesh
• 49:35
  and all of a sudden you got to relearn who you are.
• 49:37
  I'm not the same person I was when I first met Jessica.
• 49:43
  Many things trigger me in sadness.
• 49:45
  The grief comes and goes and waves like anybody who's been
• 49:47
  through it and knows you just have to fight through it somehow
• 49:51
  with God's grace. And I, I again, I'm not the
• 49:57
  first, I'm not the last to go through this.
• 49:59
  I like to, you know, perspective helps a lot.
• 50:02
  You know, I've, I've joined a lot of these widow, widow,
• 50:04
  widower groups, just reading what people are going through.
• 50:08
  And there's a lot of people going through much harder than
• 50:09
  me. And that's helped me give me
• 50:11
  some perspective and I've been able to actually talk to some
• 50:13
  people who are going through things and, and tougher
• 50:16
  circumstances in mind. God gave me these four
• 50:20
  incredible angels. He gave me so many graces to get
• 50:23
  through it. Again, I'm not the first, I'm
• 50:25
  not the last to go through it. I, I, I would say that one of
• 50:32
  the biggest graces God gave me to get through this is Jessica's
• 50:35
  content herself. I've I've actually at night in
• 50:39
  the beginning, I was having a hard time and I put the kids to
• 50:41
  bed. Night times were the hardest.
• 50:42
  Anybody who's has young kids knows the kids have been a
• 50:44
  blessing. But then when you put them to
• 50:46
  bed, it's quiet. I would actually, I would
• 50:48
  actually be extremely sad, but then I would start reading her
• 50:53
  content and I went from the very beginning and I picked up so
• 50:56
  much from her content. And then I decided, you know
• 50:58
  what, I believe Jessica would want me to continue this page.
• 51:01
  And I did. And I started posting monthly
• 51:03
  updates of myself and what I'm going through.
• 51:05
  And then I started getting the feedback of people who who
• 51:10
  appreciated me sharing that. And then I realized, hey, you
• 51:13
  know, maybe I can continue what Jessica did here.
• 51:15
  Maybe I can be a witness to how to suffer through this kind of
• 51:19
  suffering. It's a different kind of
• 51:20
  suffering that Jessica went through.
• 51:21
  But there's many people going through this.
• 51:23
  And maybe I can just continue what she did.
• 51:25
  You know, we made a great team in business when she was on
• 51:28
  earth. And maybe now we can continue to
• 51:30
  be a great team. And she kind of passed the baton
• 51:32
  on to me and we can do something with this and keep it going.
• 51:37
  I really believe if I, if I can get more eyes on her page, then
• 51:41
  so many more people could benefit from it.
• 51:43
  And so I feel like I do have this mission, which which is
• 51:46
  it's such a grace to help me get through this because I feel like
• 51:48
  I have a purpose. I have a mission here.
• 51:50
  And it's really simply just to proclaim the goodness of God
• 51:54
  through suffering. God is great, He's in control,
• 51:57
  He's always good. He was good before this, He's
• 51:58
  good now, he's good after. And he will give everybody the
• 52:03
  graces you need to get through anything.
• 52:04
  And so if I could proclaim that, if I could, if I could just keep
• 52:08
  her mission going on somehow, if it be our Lord's will, if he
• 52:10
  would use a Sinner like me to do that, then that's amazing.
• 52:14
  In the process. My main mission is to save my
• 52:17
  soul, to save my children's soul, to continue the, the, the
• 52:20
  primary mission we had as parents was to get our kids to
• 52:22
  heaven. I'd like to think that Jessica's
• 52:25
  in heaven, like I said. So in a way, I, I accomplished
• 52:28
  one of my missions and she made it easy for me for sure.
• 52:33
  But I, you know, I still have a lot of work to do.
• 52:37
  There's a lot of work to do. It's a daily battle.
• 52:39
  Like I said, the enemy doesn't sleep.
• 52:40
  And when I'm down, when you're down in grief, it's, it's such
• 52:43
  a, it's so easy. It's very tempting to go down
• 52:46
  that dark path of thoughts. But thanks to my faith, thanks
• 52:49
  to all the things I mentioned earlier, I can fall back on
• 52:53
  that. And that's really what it comes
• 52:55
  down to, focusing on our Lord's, our Lord on Calvary, our Lord's
• 52:59
  passion and how he kept going and kept going.
• 53:02
  And that's, that's what I have to do.
• 53:05
  As far as my children go, they've been incredible.
• 53:09
  You know that they, they still go.
• 53:10
  They, they go, they're in grief counseling.
• 53:13
  They see me cry all the time. They cry times I'm with them.
• 53:16
  I tell them it's OK to cry. With all that said, though, it's
• 53:20
  been 3 months. I would say that they've
• 53:21
  consoled me the more than I've consoled them.
• 53:23
  And it's pretty incredible. You know, when we go to the tomb
• 53:25
  after Jessica's mass on Sunday, every Sunday, it's usually me
• 53:29
  the one who's bawling and then they're the ones hugging me.
• 53:31
  It's so beautiful how our Lord works through these young
• 53:35
  innocent souls. And, and, but yeah, they,
• 53:38
  they're still, you know, just like any, any child going
• 53:41
  through this, they're going to have their days.
• 53:42
  And I'm always there for them. And I have to just rely purely
• 53:46
  on divine province at this point.
• 53:47
  Like I said earlier, I don't know how my future looks.
• 53:49
  I don't know. There's a lot of uncertainty.
• 53:51
  But no matter what, no matter what, I will always proclaim
• 53:54
  God's goodness and I will always proclaim how I, I'm living proof
• 53:58
  that he's with me as I'm carrying this cross.
• 54:01
  He's with me and and that's mainly why I want to come on
• 54:05
  here, Lila, to be honest, to give glory to God.
• 54:07
  That's it. I'm the only reason.
• 54:09
  He's the only reason I'm here. I'm sitting here right now.
• 54:12
  And when people tell me, oh, you know, you seem like you're doing
• 54:14
  good. It's not.
• 54:16
  It's not easy, you know, but it's all all glory to God.
• 54:20
  That's the only thing. Again, not, not explainable.
• 54:22
  Supernatural graces. You can't explain it.
• 54:24
  But yeah, that's all I can say. Well, I think you are inspiring
• 54:29
  so many people, Lamar, too deep in their love of and their walk
• 54:33
  with God. That's what Jessica did in her
• 54:35
  life. That's what you're doing in
• 54:36
  yours. And I thank you.
• 54:38
  Thank you for doing that and for being willing to be vulnerable
• 54:41
  and share with other people because a lot of people now is
• 54:44
  not the time they want to be getting on a podcast.
• 54:46
  So I so appreciate it. And I know how edifying this is
• 54:50
  for people that have already encountered Jessica's story and
• 54:52
  for the folks listening to this podcast now.
• 54:56
  All glory to God, Saint Augustine said.
• 54:58
  One of my favorite quotes from Saint Augustine is any good that
• 55:01
  comes from me, I'm going to paraphrase it, but any good
• 55:06
  coming from me is from God and the rest is my fault.
• 55:08
  And that's, that's what I always proclaim.
• 55:09
  Any good coming from me is all God and anytime anybody give me
• 55:13
  anything, any kind of praise, I give it right back to our Lord.
• 55:17
  Amen. There's one more thing I wanted
• 55:19
  to hear you share about, and I think it's such an incredibly
• 55:22
  important thing for people to learn as we ourselves are all in
• 55:27
  our journey towards eternity. And that's this idea of
• 55:30
  preparing for a holy death. I know you mentioned earlier
• 55:33
  Jessica really felt in her last few months as she was suffering
• 55:38
  that she was preparing for her death and she wanted to help
• 55:40
  other people prepare for a holy death.
• 55:43
  Can you share more what it means to prepare for a holy death,
• 55:46
  what this idea is? And then if you're willing,
• 55:49
  share about the the circumstances of Jessica's
• 55:52
  passing. Yeah, so it's, you know, it
• 56:00
  comes, it starts with to start preparing for death.
• 56:03
  You have to start to want to face it.
• 56:05
  I mean, most of the society doesn't want to talk about
• 56:07
  death. We have, we live in a very, you
• 56:10
  know, sanitized life right now where, you know, death isn't
• 56:13
  just kind of like pushed aside or not talked about because
• 56:16
  people don't want to deal with it.
• 56:17
  People don't want to think about it.
• 56:19
  And it's pretty incredible that, like I said earlier, your, your
• 56:21
  biggest moment of your entire existence is your particular
• 56:24
  judgement with our Lord. And most people don't even want
• 56:26
  to reflect on that. So I think it starts with
• 56:29
  reflecting on the fact that you will be judged the moment you
• 56:32
  die. We believe as Catholics that you
• 56:34
  will be before the throne of God, judged for every action,
• 56:38
  every thought, every word, every deed, your, your, everything you
• 56:41
  did and everything you didn't do.
• 56:43
  And that's a scary thought for many people, but that's where it
• 56:47
  starts. So if you, if you start on that,
• 56:49
  and again, you could be motivated by fear, like I said,
• 56:52
  but it's best to be motivated by fear and for love of God as
• 56:55
  well, it, it's best not to be two extremes.
• 56:57
  Again, not too much to, to rely on Divine Mercy, not too much to
• 57:00
  rely on divine justice. That's what I believe.
• 57:02
  So first step is really reflecting on your judgment.
• 57:06
  Really, you know, I would say start out with a general
• 57:09
  confession, general confession, confessing all your sins.
• 57:12
  And then Jessica and I did this a few times because you really
• 57:17
  want to get right with God before you get on this journey
• 57:20
  of preparing for death. Second step after that, I would
• 57:23
  say just to understand how you know, to really reflect on how
• 57:30
  death can happen at any moment. You know, we when you when you
• 57:34
  know somebody as intimately as I do, and then you see them die
• 57:38
  before your eyes, like I said, it sounds weird, but it's
• 57:43
  actually a grace. It's a grace.
• 57:44
  It's a supernatural grace that it because it helps you prepare
• 57:48
  for your own death. And so Jessica in her terminal
• 57:53
  illness, I mean, when you're told your terminal that that for
• 57:57
  her, that was her almost like, OK, you're almost like forced in
• 58:00
  a corner and like you're faced with it and you have to, you
• 58:03
  know, and so. For us who are not faced with
• 58:06
  the. Terminal illness and go
• 58:07
  day-to-day it's very tempting to just go about your life and not
• 58:10
  think about that very important moment and then you, you know
• 58:15
  and so again reflecting on the four last things like I said,
• 58:18
  death, judgment, heaven and hell that will give you graces to
• 58:22
  prepare for a holy death because you see all of the outcomes
• 58:26
  from, you know from those moments, those very crucial
• 58:28
  moments. The church teaches that the
• 58:31
  enemy is going to come at you hard at those blast moments.
• 58:34
  But you know, there are also many, many gifts given from our
• 58:37
  Lord and many devotions to help you prepare for holy death.
• 58:41
  And I, it's too many that I can get into right now.
• 58:44
  But once you, once one starts diving into their faith, you'll
• 58:47
  learn these things and you'll learn, OK, you know, and, and
• 58:49
  he'll give you that Peace of Mind that, OK, I'm doing what I
• 58:51
  can. Death is such a scary thing.
• 58:52
  It's such an unknown thing. We as humans, nobody can say
• 58:56
  that they've experienced it. Obviously what's behind the
• 58:59
  veil, we don't know, but it, it, it, it relies, then, you know,
• 59:02
  going from that, doing your homework, then it will then it
• 59:05
  comes down to trust. You really have to trust in our
• 59:07
  Lord that if you did what you were supposed to do, not only
• 59:11
  him, but Our Lady and all the Saints and everybody, everybody
• 59:15
  who you, you know, call to during your life will be there
• 59:18
  at your hour of your death and help you die gracefully.
• 59:20
  And one of Jessica's post to and specifically there's, you know,
• 59:24
  getting the last rites and the Viaticum and.
• 59:27
  There's a there's actually a post Jessica made.
• 59:30
  Just a couple months before she died, about the things as
• 59:32
  Catholics to have in, you know, ready to go before you die.
• 59:36
  There's those things as well. But really it comes down to
• 59:41
  just, I think the first step is just facing it.
• 59:43
  You have to face it. And it's, again, most people who
• 59:45
  are probably listening to this wouldn't want to think about
• 59:48
  their own death or face it or think about a loved one dying
• 59:50
  possibly. But as far as as Jessica's
• 59:53
  passing, it was she died peacefully with family around.
• 59:58
  She, her cancer spread. So it came back in her, like I
• 1:00:01
  said, her lungs, heart, bone, and then eventually it went
• 1:00:05
  leptomeningial. Once it gets leptomeningial is
• 1:00:07
  the fluid around the brain. You only have hours or days.
• 1:00:11
  And so she kind of lost consciousness at the end and it
• 1:00:13
  was a peaceful death. She just died peacefully.
• 1:00:17
  And I was so reassuring to me knowing that she was so
• 1:00:20
  prepared. And that's one thing you can do
• 1:00:22
  for your loved ones is. If you prepare for death
• 1:00:25
  gracefully, you can reassure your loved ones when that time
• 1:00:28
  happens, because as it is, it's such a hard moment.
• 1:00:30
  It's such a horrible moment, difficult moment, sad moment.
• 1:00:33
  But one thing that consoled all of us, me and her siblings and
• 1:00:37
  her mom and my family, one thing that consoled us and even her
• 1:00:41
  friends and a lot of her followers is that this woman was
• 1:00:45
  so prepared for death, her priest who gave her her her last
• 1:00:49
  rites told me. I don't think I've ever met
• 1:00:51
  anyone that prepared. And that gave me so much
• 1:00:54
  consolation because you know, again, I can, I can confidently
• 1:00:58
  know that, you know, and we don't presume anybody's in
• 1:01:01
  heaven. And I even made a post about it,
• 1:01:03
  how we should all still pray for her and that and she even made a
• 1:01:05
  post about it when she was alive to continue to pray for me no
• 1:01:08
  matter what. And I still do.
• 1:01:09
  I still pray to Jessica, pray for Jessica if she's still in
• 1:01:13
  purgatory, but I believe that she's in heaven and a lot of
• 1:01:16
  people do as well. And but no matter what, she
• 1:01:19
  prepared herself. This woman prepared herself and
• 1:01:22
  that's the biggest gift you can give to your loved ones before
• 1:01:24
  you go as not not only as an example, but that reassurance.
• 1:01:28
  And that was so huge. And it helps me, you know, it
• 1:01:30
  helps me confidently. As for her intercession now,
• 1:01:34
  whether in whether in purgatory or in heaven, she can still
• 1:01:36
  intercede for me and the kids. And I do it all the time.
• 1:01:39
  I speak to her all the time and it helps me.
• 1:01:41
  It helps me a lot. And so knowing all that, with
• 1:01:44
  all that said, I know what I need to do now for my children
• 1:01:49
  one day when the day we know, like I said, nobody makes it out
• 1:01:52
  of here alive. Some people seem to think we do,
• 1:01:54
  but nobody makes it out of your life.
• 1:01:55
  So when the day comes for me to to help my family, you know I'm
• 1:01:59
  going to do what I have to do to help console them, knowing that
• 1:02:02
  I did everything I can. And this is part of it is just
• 1:02:05
  living the faith as best as I can and getting up when I fall
• 1:02:09
  and and going onward, like Jessica said, onward to to
• 1:02:12
  heaven. Lamar, have there been any
• 1:02:15
  conversations about considering opening A cause for Jessica's
• 1:02:20
  canonization in the future? Yeah, so she has a couple
• 1:02:24
  followers who have been, there's actually an e-mail, and I
• 1:02:27
  apologize, I don't have an e-mail handy, but there's an
• 1:02:29
  e-mail one of her followers created where people are sending
• 1:02:31
  their conversion stories or potential intercession stories
• 1:02:35
  too, and she's collecting it. There's also been discussions.
• 1:02:41
  There's also been some of those sent to me privately via DM on
• 1:02:45
  Instagram. And definitely it's something in
• 1:02:48
  the back of my mind, but I wouldn't say it's at the
• 1:02:50
  forefront. If God wills it, it'll happen.
• 1:02:53
  If not, it won't. And that's pretty much as simple
• 1:02:55
  as that. You know, I don't really think
• 1:02:56
  too much about that. But if it, if it, if he wills
• 1:03:00
  it, it will happen. And so another reason why I want
• 1:03:03
  to continue her mission and her legacy and her and honor her as
• 1:03:05
  much as I can is because if that were to happen, you know, I
• 1:03:09
  might not be around for that, but my kids most likely will.
• 1:03:12
  So I want to leave them, you know, I want to kind of leave
• 1:03:14
  them with all the tools they need if that time comes to to
• 1:03:19
  know as much as they can about their mom and, and what she did.
• 1:03:22
  And, and yeah, so definitely it's something that's been
• 1:03:25
  talked about. And but again, I, I, I leave all
• 1:03:29
  that to God at this point in my life.
• 1:03:30
  I don't think too far ahead, Lila.
• 1:03:32
  I do one day at a time, and I know God will provide.
• 1:03:36
  Thank you, Lamar, Thank you so much for making time to do this
• 1:03:39
  with me. I know you've got a lot on your
• 1:03:41
  plate right now. And how can people find
• 1:03:44
  Jessica's Instagram? And is there any other resources
• 1:03:47
  that you recommend to people that you think Jessica would
• 1:03:50
  want them to discover or find? Right now all we have is the
• 1:03:54
  Instagram. It's blessed under score by
• 1:03:58
  under score cancer. So blessed under score by under
• 1:04:01
  score cancer that's on Instagram.
• 1:04:03
  There's a YouTube channel we started, but we don't have any
• 1:04:05
  content on there yet. I'm hiring somebody who's going
• 1:04:08
  to put all of her content from Instagram onto YouTube.
• 1:04:12
  And I also would say this, that I have plans in the works,
• 1:04:15
  different plans of how to continue her page, keep it
• 1:04:17
  alive. I do repost prayer requests.
• 1:04:19
  I do updates myself, I and then there's other more elaborate
• 1:04:24
  plans that are going to be down the pipeline at some point too.
• 1:04:27
  I have other plans in the works which I can't reveal now, but.
• 1:04:32
  As far as things she would, you know, it's all on her Instagram.
• 1:04:35
  Actually, if you go on her Instagram, she has all of her
• 1:04:38
  resources there. She did such a good job
• 1:04:40
  organizing it. Like I said, two suits, so
• 1:04:43
  talented and so good at that and she pretty much made it easy for
• 1:04:47
  me. I mean she it's all there.
• 1:04:48
  So as far as anything else that I will find, I will always share
• 1:04:52
  it as I continue her page. What helps me, you know, because
• 1:04:56
  what helps me might be different than what helps her.
• 1:04:58
  And yeah, that's, that's pretty much it.
• 1:05:01
  But I would highly, highly recommend anybody going through
• 1:05:02
  any kind of suffering right now. Blessed by cancer, go on
• 1:05:05
  Instagram and start reading her story from the beginning.
• 1:05:08
  It's a lot of content. It takes time to go through.
• 1:05:10
  But if you're in a hospital bed or if you're if you got a lot of
• 1:05:13
  time on your hands, it's some great reading.
• 1:05:16
  Thank you so much, Lamar. Thanks Lila.
• 1:05:17
  Thanks for having me. Godspeed, We'll be praying for
• 1:05:20
  you and I'll ask my audience to to pray for you and pray with
• 1:05:23
  you for all of the souls that need the prayers.
• 1:05:26
  Thanks, Lila. Thanks so much for listening to
• 1:05:28
  this episode of the Lila Rose Podcast with Lamar Hannah.
• 1:05:31
  I hope that was encouraging and edifying for you the way that it
• 1:05:34
  was for me. Check out Lamar continuing
• 1:05:37
  Jessica's legacy on her Instagram account, Blessed by
• 1:05:40
  Cancer. And please share this podcast,
• 1:05:42
  share it with someone that you know who might be struggling,
• 1:05:44
  who might be suffering, who might need some extra
• 1:05:46
  encouragement and some extra hope to be reminded that we are
• 1:05:49
  all together on a journey to prepare for eternity.
• 1:05:52
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• 1:05:54
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• 1:06:02
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