Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E260: From Aiden to Jessica: A Journey Back to Truth w/Jessica Rose | Lila Rose Show

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E260: From Aiden to Jessica: A Journey Back to Truth w/Jessica Rose | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  They have officially taken my first testosterone shot so I am
• 0:03
  seven months and one week on testosterone today.
• 0:07
  At that time, did you feel so relieved or happy?
• 0:10
  How are you feeling in the second video?
• 0:12
  By 14, I felt like I was supposed to be a boy because
• 0:15
  boys won't get hurt. Boys do the hurting.
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  I met with one endocrinologist just one time and that was
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  enough for them to sign off and get me on testosterone.
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  Seven years down the road after having surgery, it still didn't
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  fix me like. What was going down deep in your
• 0:30
  heart? She wanted to become a man so
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  that she would never get hurt again.
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  So she transitioned, dropped her family, and married a woman.
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  Then she realized that her new identity had the same issues as
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  before and even more. Welcome back to the Lila Rose
• 0:48
  Show. Today I'm sitting down with the
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  lovely Jessica Rose as she shares an emotional and
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  vulnerable story about her struggles with self acceptance,
• 0:58
  gender, and purpose. I believe this conversation is
• 1:01
  such a powerful one because so many people today are facing
• 1:04
  similar questions. If you believe in what we're
• 1:07
  doing here at the Lila Rose Show, helping people flourish in
• 1:10
  this life and the next, you can support our mission by liking
• 1:13
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• 1:16
  Or if you're on podcast app, leave us a review and share this
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• 1:26
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  go check out our new clips channel Lila Rose show clips.
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  find all of the best moments from our episodes.
• 1:40
  Thank you so much for watching and I hope you enjoyed this
• 1:43
  episode. Jessica Rose, welcome to the
• 1:45
  podcast. Hi.
• 1:46
  Hi, welcome. I love your name.
• 1:49
  I was like, we have to be family somewhere.
• 1:51
  Yeah, somewhere. Is that a last name for you?
• 1:53
  Yes, ma'am. Wow, that's so cool.
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  I went back to my original name. Beautiful your name is.
• 1:59
  Beautiful. Thank you so much.
• 2:01
  Marie is your middle name. I love that name.
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  Thank you. It's a beautiful name.
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  I appreciate that I take a lot of ownership now and a lot of
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  pride in the fact that I am her. You are her, and it's a
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  beautiful name and you are beautiful.
• 2:14
  Thank you so much, Lila. So are you.
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  Can't believe I'm here. I'm so glad you're here.
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  I'm so excited to have our whole community hear your story.
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  And I think it's such a brave thing to do to come and share
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  these most intimate details of your life, your struggle, what
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  you've overcome. So first, I just want to
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  congratulate you for your courage and thank you for that.
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  And I'm very excited to dive in today.
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  Thank you. I'm excited to be here and
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  excited to just share. I know God wants to reach many
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  and I think it's an honor to be used this way.
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  Yes. So thank you for providing me
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  the safe space to talk. Yes, of course, Of course.
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  And we have a mutual friend, Kim.
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  Yes. Who's the best?
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  I love her. She's so great.
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  Yes, she's doing some beautiful podcasting, too.
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  Yeah. And I know that you did an
• 3:03
  interview with her recently that was very powerful.
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  Thank you. Which I got to see I.
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  Cried the whole time and. I was like, we got to get
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  Jessica on the show because people need to hear this woman
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  and her story. I appreciate that.
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  So tell me 1st where you're from and then we're going to start
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  from the beginning and go through the journey that you've
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  been on. Absolutely.
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  I am from Sacramento, CA, so I'm about 6 hours away and I think
• 3:28
  that I've lived in LA for a few years and so I have made my way
• 3:33
  down here. So it's a really to me feels
• 3:35
  like full circle to be down here, to be filming when I was
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  down here and I, I started that shift in my identity and now
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  here I am proclaiming ground in Southern California again of
• 3:45
  like my redemptive story. So truly I, I see this as a full
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  circle moment for myself to be down here.
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  But yeah, so I live up north. I still, I moved back after a
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  couple years of living down here.
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  I live with my mom. God's just doing a lot of
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  restoration there, too, which I never would have imagined.
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  But yeah, my story began in in Sacramento.
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  I was AI was a little girl, You know, I, I wasn't really
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  feminine. I wasn't really girly.
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  I love basketball. I still love basketball.
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  And with loving basketball, I found comfort in, you know, some
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  boy clothes. I felt comfort and things like
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  that. I'm the second oldest of five.
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  My older sibling, my older sister, she's nine years older.
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  And so at a young age, we just kind of had a big age gap.
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  She don't like taking care of her younger sibling, you know
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  what I mean? She left with her dad all the
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  time. And then when I was 10, my mom
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  had twins, and at that time I was 10.
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  So there's five of us. My sister's nine years older.
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  There's me, my brother's two years younger.
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  And then the twins are 10 years younger than us.
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  And growing up, me and my brother were close.
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  You know, he's two years younger than me.
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  We did everything together. We even played sports, ran
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  around Sacramento all the time, like playing around little
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  hoodlums, so to speak. We were.
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  We were we. Were fun, but me and him were
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  really close. And then my mom had the twins
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  and it kind of shifted things. You know, my dad was gone.
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  My older sister's dad was gone, or at least out of the picture,
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  I should say. And so when the twins were born
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  a year, right when they were turning a year, their dad left
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  and went to prison for 19 years. And while he was gone and I was
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  10, young, I picked up this persona to be like the Big
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  Brother, to be the protector of the family.
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  I'm tall and my mom's tall. And so I just felt like I could
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  do these things in the same breath of becoming this
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  protector and this person who wanted to just keep everybody
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  safe. I wanted to help protect my mom.
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  My mom was gone working a lot and up providing for us.
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  There's five of us at this point.
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  And and then when the twins turned 1, my older sister moved
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  out because she was 19 at that time.
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  So she went and did her thing. So it was me, my brother who was
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  eight at the time, and then the twins and I picked up like both
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  motherly rolls. So I learned how to cook, I
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  learned how to clean, do the dishes, I learned how to do
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  laundry. I like remember leaning into the
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  washing machine to throw everything in because I was, you
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  know, it was just a deep washer. And I just, I can remember the
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  day my mom was teaching me how to do these things.
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  So in the same breath of learning how to do motherly
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  things and take care of, I also knew how to just kind of protect
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  as I was going through. 10/11, 12:13 and 14, I started to get
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  started to get assaulted, sexually assaulted by some older
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  boys, some cousins, some people my mom knew, but my mom did not
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  know about these incidents. My mom recently just found out
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  because of the podcast with Kim. I had to tell her because she
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  wanted to watch it and I told the world before I told her.
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  And now there's a lot of healing that has been happening.
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  But from a young age, getting those assaulted and kind of
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  feeling like the protector. By 14, I felt like I was
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  supposed to be a boy. Because boys won't get hurt.
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  Boys do the hurting. And picked up this.
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  Machi small kind of macho persona.
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  I became, you know, interested in women.
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  I became going down this route into now exploring women because
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  I have now been hurt all the way up until 14 and didn't want to
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  tell my mom because I knew my mom would protect me.
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  I knew my mom. Would defend me.
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  But I also knew in that if my mom did that, she would go to
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  jail. Like my mom would do something
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  about it because she loved us so much.
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  And I knew she would do the things that a mother would do to
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  make sure nothing happened to her kids.
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  And she was so scared of like, what?
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  My dad's already gone. I don't want my mom gone.
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  And so by 15, I had this best friend and this best friend.
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  We were intellectually interested, but we had not been
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  physical until she she had kind of assaulted me in the sense of
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  she took my hand and put it in her pants and made me do the
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  same thing at 15 years old. But in the same breath of
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  confusion, I did not pick up lesbian just yet.
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  There was a term called bisexual, but at the time,
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  society did not see it as bisexual.
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  Like you could not be bisexual. My peers were highly against it
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  had to be one or the other. And so already feeling macho and
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  already feeling like a man, I'm tall for a girl.
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  I have big hands. I like basketball.
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  I'm like, clearly I'm supposed to be a boy.
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  I want to preface, I did not grow up in a Christian
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  household. So through this all, I did not
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  know the Lord. And I know he was with me and
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  did not know he loved me and did not know He wonderfully,
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  beautifully created me and did not know any of those things.
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  Is how I was easily susceptible to the lies that I can pick up
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  and do whatever I want and be whoever I want.
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  And that's just not the truth. But for me, at 15, it was picked
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  up by I had to choose between being a bisexual or a lesbian,
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  and so I grabbed a lesbian. After this, I grabbed that title
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  and then I started to own it. My older sister took me to
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  Macy's. I think Macy's is still around,
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  Macy's and JC Penney's. And she took me and I got my
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  first cargo shorts. I got my first oversized shirt,
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  and it was a Quicksilver shirt. And so I felt like, you know, I
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  felt like I was doing the thing. I got to put my first pair of
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  Vans, and I felt like I had the perfect kind of boy outfit that
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  I wanted to wear. And I just went down this
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  trajectory of becoming like a womanizer, having a lot of
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  girlfriends. At 15 years old, I should have
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  been focusing more on the twins or focusing on anything else
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  other than all the girls I was focusing on.
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  And from 15 to 21, I just went down this trajectory of women
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  and this kind of male persona. Did my hair and braids, had hats
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  all the time. I like, really grabbed this kind
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  of tough kind of personality. I continue to play sports,
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  continue to play basketball. I did not.
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  I've never had a boyfriend. I've never went through any of
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  those things and so I had multiple girlfriends all the
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  time. Now I understand why Paul says
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  it's best to be single where you can focus on the things of the
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  Lord, and I just was not. And with having girlfriends all
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  the time, I was constantly distracted.
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  I did really good in school though, but I was constantly
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  distracted. At 21, I had taken a a women's
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  sexual orientation class, Sexual studies and orientation class in
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  Sacramento. Is this a junior college or
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  college? Or it was a junior college and I
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  learned the word transgender. OK, I am.
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  We're going to pick up there. I have one question though,
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  before we move into this next chapter of your childhood, of
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  course. And thank you for being so open
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  and vulnerable about all of this.
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  It's so powerful. When you were going through
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  these teen years of experiencing sexual assault and you said you
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  boys didn't get hurt, was there something before that?
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  You know, that experience of that trauma of going through
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  that, Did you feel like your body as a woman, as a girl, a
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  girl's developing body was the culprit for the pain.
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  How did you see your body at that stage?
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  Oh, completely. I think mixed with insecurities
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  of being taller, having bigger hands, bigger feet, I felt like
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  more masculine. But in these situations, it kind
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  of reminded me I was a girl because they were not attracted
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  or looking for the things that I was insecure about.
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  They wanted my body parts. I did develop like I by this
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  time, you know, I had AC cup on my chest.
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  I had a bigger hips and a bigger lower half.
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  And so I was aware of what they were becoming drawn to.
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  But in the same breath, it was like dehumanizing because it was
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  an attraction to who I was. It was what they wanted or, you
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  know, forcing me to do things to them.
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  And, you know, at a young age, where confusion comes in is the
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  body responding. And when our body responds, we
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  sit here and make an identity out of that.
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  So having this confusion with these men and then having this
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  confusion with the girls, my body was more responsive to
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  women than it was to men. And now as an adult, I
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  understand because of the aggression and the force.
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  That's why my body did not respond to men in a sense of
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  gratification or anything. And it caused a lot of confusion
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  in the same breath of feeling very, very masculine.
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  They wanted one thing. I did not want that one thing at
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  the same time society, I don't know if you remember the show
• 13:44
  called Teen Mom. And so teen pregnancies were
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  happening and these things were happening around where it was
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  very like repulsive. But then you you were thinking,
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  well, why would they get pregnant young?
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  And then it started to think, well, maybe because these men
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  took advantage of them. And so seeing being taken
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  advantage of, assuming women get taken advantage of, watching my
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  mom have a lot of pain with men confused about my body.
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  There was a lot of thoughts that were happening and all I wanted
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  to do was escape that. So if I presented like a man, no
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  man's going to come and approach me or take advantage of me
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  because I look like a boy. I do understand now as an adult,
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  men do get hurt, boys do get hurt, boys do get taken
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  advantage of, and boys do go trauma through trauma as well.
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  But as a young girl, I did not know that everybody's getting
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  hurt. That it's just mistrust.
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  In people and people going through their own pain, hurting
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  other people, they say that phrase hurt people, hurt people.
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  And there was a lot of people who were hurt in Sacramento at
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  that time and hurt people around me.
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  And my mom was working a lot. So my mom did not know certain
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  people she had left me with. And, you know, right before the
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  twins were born. Then after the twins were born,
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  I got to protect them. And to this day, I pray that I
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  did a good job making sure no one hurt them like I was hurt at
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  a young age and making sure that they were safe doing the best
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  that I could while my mom was at working and doing what she
• 15:19
  needed to do to provide as a single mom of five.
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  So there was many factors from at 15, just wanting to run away
• 15:29
  and escape and then. When I found myself lost with
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  these girls, it was to escape what was in front of me.
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  You know, I met people in person and I also online chit chats and
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  group chats and website chats were like a very popular thing
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  in the early 2000 and 10's. And so I was looking at all
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  those sites, just escaping my reality, not facing what I have
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  been through and also not wanting to continue to do what I
• 15:59
  was doing. So my outlet was just talking
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  and talking and talking and talking about them.
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  Not even talking about my problems, asking how they were
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  doing just to get my head away from what I was in front of
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  because I was going through these emotional roller coasters
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  but so scared to tell my mom. I can think of specific moments
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  where I was so close to telling my mom what I had been through
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  and had I felt that I could talk to her.
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  I think I would not have gone down the journey because I would
• 16:33
  have felt like I could talk to her.
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  So there's some beauty in in the safety that a parent can provide
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  of like, I will hear you. But I had fears that my mom
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  would hear me but then do something that could cause her
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  to go away because she wanted to protect, you know, because she
• 16:51
  wanted to be there for me. And so I just had a lot of fear.
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  Fear and not telling her. Fear in telling her.
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  Fear in telling anyone. I didn't tell any teachers, any
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  leaders. I didn't tell anybody what I was
• 17:06
  going through. And because I took on just this,
• 17:12
  this mask of a person and this identity, I tried to grab this
• 17:18
  fake happiness, fake happiness. And being a lesbian.
• 17:23
  From 15 to 21, though, I went through these, you know, the
• 17:26
  hormonal changes that happen. I remember being like 1617 and I
• 17:31
  remember thinking a boy was cute.
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  And I remember having the thought of and shutting it down,
• 17:37
  like, Oh my God, I've grabbed this identity as a lesbian.
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  I've told everyone I was a lesbian.
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  How am I now supposed to explore the thought that a boy is cute?
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  And I shut it down and I freaked out.
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  And then I have not had thoughts until now as an adult.
• 17:55
  I, I, I have that attraction now.
• 17:56
  But at the time I was so in pride.
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  And people think pride is rainbows and colors, but that's
• 18:05
  not what pride is. And pride is about self and
• 18:08
  making self decisions and, and thinking that I know right for
• 18:12
  myself. I can do right for myself, I can
• 18:14
  do these things. And I was making all the wrong
• 18:17
  decisions and pride. I was so scared to say I was
• 18:20
  wrong. I was so scared to tell my mom.
• 18:23
  Often when I went down this lesbian track, she was like,
• 18:26
  it's just a phase. And that was her favorite thing
• 18:28
  to tell me. And I'm like, no, it's not mom.
• 18:30
  It's who I am. Again, not knowing the Lord, not
• 18:34
  knowing how he created, not knowing that people have had
• 18:38
  these ups and downs, desires for centuries.
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  It's just a matter of not acting.
• 18:42
  And I acted on everything that I should not have acted on by the
• 18:47
  grace. Now I have repented by the I
• 18:48
  have repented for all of that. But at the time, I didn't know
• 18:51
  better. I was so scared of trying to
• 18:55
  explore with the boy. I was so scared to even explore
• 18:58
  in my mind, let alone physically.
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  I wouldn't even allow myself to think what if.
• 19:05
  I want to ask before we get to 21, you are now in a different
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  obviously part of your life is post awareness of God's love for
• 19:14
  you, your faith, and now you're detransition.
• 19:17
  But when you talk to other people who were formerly
• 19:21
  identifying as LGBTQ and do other folks express to you some
• 19:27
  of what you're expressing to me now about, OK, I, I labeled
• 19:30
  myself this lesbian. I do have this attraction that
• 19:34
  pops in for this boy or this man.
• 19:36
  But I, I, I can't, I, I have to stick with the label.
• 19:41
  I have, or I have doubts about my label, but I need to stick
• 19:43
  with the label. I do think a lot of people today
• 19:45
  in that world switch labels a lot because it's like there's so
• 19:48
  many labels now. But do you hear that when people
• 19:53
  look back on their time, being part of that identity and part
• 19:56
  of that world? Absolutely.
• 19:58
  When I talked to a lot of overcomers, they were feeling
• 20:02
  very similar of like I made this decision.
• 20:04
  Most of the people I have spoke to in this sense are about my
• 20:08
  age. So they understood the societal
• 20:10
  pressures that were happening. Because when I was 21, I was
• 20:13
  2015. So this is like 2009, two
• 20:15
  thousand and ten, 2011. It was not as loose.
• 20:19
  There was only a few lesbians in my high school.
• 20:21
  There's only a few lesbians out. Like it wasn't something that's
• 20:24
  so popular now. Now I feel like the minority is
• 20:28
  being straight and you know, I feel like that is the minority.
• 20:31
  And so at the time there was only a few of us.
• 20:33
  So we like. So now when I talk to other
• 20:36
  overcomers, they can understand what I'm talking about.
• 20:39
  They felt like they were the only few in their high school
• 20:41
  men and women. There was only a few, you know,
• 20:44
  out gay men, only about out few out lesbians.
• 20:48
  So they could agree in that sense of while I have now
• 20:51
  declared this, now as you mentioned, it is very loose.
• 20:55
  They grab any and every title. There's words to be inclusive
• 20:58
  for every part of it. And even in that transgender
• 21:01
  like realm of things, there's called pansexual where it's
• 21:06
  inclusive to dating trans people.
• 21:08
  There's inclusive to just men and women.
• 21:11
  No transgenders. Like there's so many terms now.
• 21:14
  Back then there weren't that many terms.
• 21:16
  It was literally lesbian, gay, bisexual.
• 21:19
  And so a lot of us were like scared of bisexual because
• 21:22
  there's a lot of pressure that had came around that terminology
• 21:26
  that you could not, you were indecisive, you had to take a
• 21:29
  stance on what you wanted. And that pressure happened to me
• 21:33
  and it's happened to a lot of people.
• 21:35
  And even now I feel like that that specific area is not very
• 21:38
  inclusive to the whole LGBTQIA plus.
• 21:43
  It's very interesting because I, I think that's what I observed
• 21:46
  from people that have come on the show who are their
• 21:49
  experiences more in the last few years is it's a different world.
• 21:52
  Like you're saying 2010, 2015, even 2020 and now 2025.
• 21:57
  And the experiences in the cultural dynamics are going to
• 22:01
  have differences based on what was, what was happening during
• 22:05
  those times, obviously. And I, I, but I think one thing
• 22:08
  that is consistent is this is hurt, hurt and confusion for a
• 22:15
  lot of people for different reasons.
• 22:17
  And then it attract attracted to an identity that can kind of
• 22:20
  help them interpret their own world.
• 22:23
  And their own. Experiences.
• 22:24
  Yes, yes. All right.
• 22:26
  So 21 years old, you're out as a lesbian.
• 22:30
  Your mom's like it's a phase, but she loves you.
• 22:32
  You love your mom. You're trying to be a good big
• 22:35
  sister still. You're identifying as a as a
• 22:37
  sister to your younger siblings. You're taking some classes.
• 22:40
  What happens next? Yeah.
• 22:42
  And so in the middle of or in the beginning of the, the
• 22:46
  semester, they, I mean, it's in September, so school must have
• 22:50
  started in August. And we're going through this
• 22:53
  class and then the, I'm dating a girl at this time and she's
• 22:56
  taking the class with me. And so when I hear the word
• 22:59
  transgender, I remember turning back and looking at her like I
• 23:04
  felt like it was an aha moment. It was a light bulb clicking.
• 23:08
  They broke down body dysmorphia, dysphoria and transgender.
• 23:14
  And this body dysmorphia and body dysphoria are in your mind
• 23:19
  and transgender is in your mind as well.
• 23:20
  But it's when you do not feel that your mind and your body are
• 23:23
  aligned and you can do something about it.
• 23:27
  And once I found that I could do something about it.
• 23:30
  This was in September and it was September 19th because two days
• 23:34
  later it was September 17th because on September 19th, I cut
• 23:39
  my hair because it was right before the twins birthday party.
• 23:42
  And I was like, I'm going to do it.
• 23:44
  I found the word I can become a man physically.
• 23:48
  I can look like everything I feel in my head.
• 23:51
  Again, all caused by trauma, but I can now make this all aligned.
• 23:55
  October, this is all 2015, 21 years old.
• 23:59
  October I came out. November I changed my name by
• 24:03
  I'm by December 21st, 2015, I was on hormones and I have a
• 24:08
  video of that day. I took my shot and I was doing a
• 24:12
  voice recording essentially. And I recently had found it and
• 24:17
  it made me so emotional to think of what my voice sounded like
• 24:19
  before I did everything that I've done to it.
• 24:23
  But I still find beauty in what it is now.
• 24:25
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• 27:16
  So I'm 21 and by the end of the year I now have grabbed this
• 27:21
  identity in December to start hormones.
• 27:24
  I met with one psychologist and I met with one endocrinologist.
• 27:29
  I met with just one time. I sat with them and told him
• 27:33
  I've always felt like a boy. They're like, did it start?
• 27:35
  I've always felt this way. Oh, you have?
• 27:38
  Is there any kind of route? I will say at the speed of that,
• 27:41
  I was going at my level of honesty and transparency.
• 27:44
  I didn't break down the trauma. I just was like, I've always
• 27:47
  felt this way. And that was enough for them to
• 27:50
  sign off and get me on testosterone.
• 27:54
  So I then proceeded to be on testosterone for six years.
• 28:01
  In the first year, I had experienced a lot of body
• 28:04
  changes. You know, they tell you like a
• 28:07
  quick synopsis of what could help some of the side effects,
• 28:11
  but they don't emphasize anything.
• 28:12
  One of the things I've realized now is I was not depressed or
• 28:16
  suicidal before testosterone. And one of the things that they
• 28:20
  say now is that people are that way and thinking the
• 28:24
  testosterone is going to make that go away.
• 28:27
  Testosterone and estrogen does not as a cross sex hormone, does
• 28:31
  not make depression or suicide go away.
• 28:34
  If anything, in your first stages, in the first year, you
• 28:38
  experience high levels of death, depression and suicidal thoughts
• 28:42
  because you have an irregular system.
• 28:44
  As a woman, I had high estrogen level and lower testosterone.
• 28:48
  We have both, but I had high rate as a born woman.
• 28:51
  And your body is going through this fight and going through
• 28:54
  this balance of trying to now have more testosterone than
• 28:57
  estrogen. And so in that first year,
• 29:00
  that's not just OK, your levels are changing, That's your body
• 29:03
  changing. You're you're literally sweating
• 29:07
  more. Your hormones play a big part in
• 29:08
  your body. So you're sweating more.
• 29:10
  Your thoughts are crazy. Your mind is going really,
• 29:13
  really wild. I became anxious, I became
• 29:16
  suicidal. I was like wanting these
• 29:20
  results. It was constantly staring in the
• 29:22
  mirror trying to achieve these goals.
• 29:26
  And in my thought process, I took testosterone to look like
• 29:29
  the man. I did not take testosterone to
• 29:32
  go through mental changes. And so I did not know when I was
• 29:35
  going to begin this thing that I was going to become so suicidal.
• 29:39
  And the same time, I then had never done drugs before this.
• 29:42
  I picked up smoking weed. I picked up doing all these
• 29:45
  things I never would have imagined that I would have been
• 29:47
  doing, but it was the weed was to suppress the suicidal
• 29:51
  thoughts, suppress the depression.
• 29:54
  In the end it did not do any of those things.
• 29:56
  I do know that now, but it was what I picked up at the time.
• 30:00
  So as I put this mask on and I identified as this man, I went
• 30:05
  by the name of Hayden. I was trying to achieve the
• 30:09
  look. I was trying to achieve the
• 30:11
  hairy legs, the hairy arms, the beard, getting the haircuts.
• 30:17
  That's sad that that's what I think a man is.
• 30:20
  That is not what a man is, and it's not hairy like that.
• 30:24
  That doesn't make him a man because he's hairy.
• 30:27
  Does not make him a man because he have a beard.
• 30:28
  He has a beard, doesn't make him a man because he gets his hair
• 30:31
  cut. In the same breath of what God
• 30:33
  was walking me through. Now I see it as what God was
• 30:36
  walking me through. He was showing me the things
• 30:38
  that I thought I wanted, I did not actually want.
• 30:41
  But now that I'm looking like this man, I wanted what we would
• 30:44
  call the American Dream. The American Dream is what
• 30:49
  Charlie says, let's get married, let's have the house, let's have
• 30:53
  the family and, you know, be able to.
• 30:57
  Charlie says you go out and you ride the bike and you not have
• 31:00
  any situations. I did that by 20.
• 31:03
  From 21 to 23, I was going through my hormonal changes.
• 31:06
  Me and that girl broke up because she wanted to be with
• 31:09
  women and I now wanted to be a man.
• 31:12
  She did not want to be with a man.
• 31:14
  So this was a lesbian partner you.
• 31:15
  It was when I found the word when I was in the class and we
• 31:18
  broke up in the first year. I want to ask before we get to
• 31:22
  do get deeper into this chapter, there's a video you shared with
• 31:25
  me, thank you, that I want us to watch together.
• 31:28
  And this you referenced it a moment ago and this is of you
• 31:32
  first starting your transition and I'm going to pull it up here
• 31:36
  and we can watch it together. And I want to get your thoughts
• 31:38
  on this video. So what year is this from?
• 31:44
  This is December 2015. December 2015.
• 31:48
  They have officially taken my first testosterone shot.
• 31:53
  So day one on testosterone. This is Monday the 20 something
• 32:01
  21st. So I am seven months and one
• 32:04
  week on testosterone today. I'm pretty sure my voice is
• 32:08
  going to stay here. I don't know if it's going to
• 32:10
  drop, but I like it. So that's.
• 32:12
  At that time, did you feel so relieved or happy?
• 32:15
  How are you feeling in the second video?
• 32:19
  The second video was that first year of like going through the
• 32:26
  emotional roller coaster of hormones, wanting to have the
• 32:33
  changes that I so desperately wanted so quickly.
• 32:38
  But it is not a quick process. It is not quick that you just
• 32:41
  immediately drop estrogen and immediately have more
• 32:44
  testosterone. Because I thought it was the
• 32:47
  hair. I was like, why is it not
• 32:49
  happening? And so I was so in my head, I
• 32:52
  was a workaholic. So I was just constantly trying
• 32:55
  to keep busy because I wanted these immediate response and
• 32:59
  results for an immediate satisfaction that did not come
• 33:04
  immediately, that truly never came.
• 33:08
  Wanting happiness. Wanting to finally feel like I
• 33:13
  look like what I feel like in my head.
• 33:16
  Wanting to feel what would be called aligned.
• 33:21
  And so as much as I was appreciative of my voice being
• 33:23
  different, still didn't feel that way.
• 33:27
  I was still insecure. I was still bigger, I still had
• 33:31
  my chest, I still had the things that reminded me I was still a
• 33:35
  woman, which was so hard to look at.
• 33:40
  I began doing this thing called binding where you compress your
• 33:44
  chest and I double binded so I compressed with two of them and
• 33:49
  then you could have this tape. I had scars.
• 33:52
  It would RIP my skin off like it would hurt so bad.
• 33:57
  But I wanted a flat chest and I wanted all the hair and I
• 34:02
  thought those things were going to fix me.
• 34:05
  They never fixed me. Even 7 years down the road after
• 34:11
  having surgery, it still didn't fix me.
• 34:15
  What do you mean by that? What was when you say it didn't
• 34:17
  fix me? What was your What was in the
• 34:18
  innermost part of your heart at this time?
• 34:22
  When you're having all those external changes and you're
• 34:24
  really wanting these external changes to happen so badly, what
• 34:27
  was going down deep in your heart?
• 34:31
  Wanting to escape everything that I was wanting to escape the
• 34:37
  pain that had happened between 10 and 14.
• 34:40
  Wanting to escape and feeling like if I look completely
• 34:44
  different, that will not be a part of what has happened to me.
• 34:49
  But that's all in your head. It's in your memories, it's in
• 34:52
  what you see. It's in.
• 34:54
  So as much as I was trying to physically look in the mirror
• 34:58
  and think I was different, I was still the broken girl who had
• 35:04
  this trauma that still didn't tell anybody.
• 35:09
  No matter how much testosterone I put in my body, I still never
• 35:12
  told anybody about getting hurt as a little girl.
• 35:16
  I never told anyone about who they were and what that did to
• 35:21
  me mentally as to how these people could hurt me.
• 35:24
  I was trying to escape so far. And in reality, it was all the
• 35:29
  same body. The same body that got hurt at
• 35:32
  14. I'm still in the same body
• 35:35
  hoping that the taking and having the double mastectomy was
• 35:38
  going to make me feel better and feel like I was a man.
• 35:41
  It was still the same body that got hurt at 1314 years old.
• 35:47
  They could not run away from it. No matter how much testosterone
• 35:51
  ran through my body, it did not make me escape.
• 35:54
  What really did happen when I was a kid, I didn't go through
• 35:58
  therapy, so I never talked and just bottled and bottled.
• 36:03
  And if I put on a different mask, it'll go away.
• 36:07
  OK, so I wanted this mask to look like what I wanted, so
• 36:10
  please, it'll go away. I eventually got the beard.
• 36:14
  I eventually got the hairy arms. I eventually got married.
• 36:19
  To a. To a woman, I was 23 years old,
• 36:23
  she was 38 years old. So you married a 38 year old
• 36:27
  woman? I did marry.
• 36:28
  As a 23 year old and you're living as a trans man at this
• 36:31
  point. And as I said, you know, I
• 36:35
  wanted that American dream. I wanted to be married.
• 36:38
  She had a child already and her daughter was 16.
• 36:41
  That caused a lot of complication because here I was
• 36:45
  as a 23 year old step parent with a 16 year old.
• 36:49
  She didn't want to listen to me and I didn't know how to parent
• 36:52
  her because she was just wild. And I think she was wild because
• 36:56
  she was so confused about what was happening between me and her
• 36:58
  mom. Her dad was in her life and she
• 37:00
  was just really reacting outward in a very wild perspective.
• 37:05
  And now I understand it was due to a lot of things within our
• 37:07
  relationship. So we had a big house.
• 37:10
  We had multiple cars, I was married to her, had the
• 37:14
  stepchild, but in that same time my mom just could not wrap
• 37:18
  around everything that was happening.
• 37:20
  She would look at you and she would not see Aiden.
• 37:23
  She'd see Jessica, her daughter. And did she call this another
• 37:26
  face? She was like she did and she did
• 37:30
  not know how to accept it. But at this time, I was so
• 37:34
  rooted in pride. I said fine and I chose my wife
• 37:39
  and I chose this family and I stopped talking to them for 2
• 37:43
  1/2 years. So you, you froze out the twins,
• 37:48
  younger brother, big sister, mom, because this is the new,
• 37:52
  this is Aiden now. And they didn't accept Aiden on
• 37:55
  Aiden's terms. So now I'm going to be Aiden on
• 37:57
  Aiden's terms. Absolutely.
• 37:59
  Was that hard for you in your heart?
• 38:02
  Absolutely. You missed them.
• 38:03
  Missed. Them so much, they were in high
• 38:07
  school at this point. I missed, you know, they're both
• 38:10
  athletes. I missed their games.
• 38:12
  I missed what they were just going through.
• 38:15
  They ended up a little troubled for a little brief of time.
• 38:18
  And I took responsibility for a lot of that because I left me
• 38:23
  and my brother who were two years apart, we really drifted
• 38:26
  apart. And my older sister, you know,
• 38:30
  she had, the second I told her I wanted to be Aidan, she called
• 38:33
  me Aidan. So she was the closest that I
• 38:36
  had to know what was kind of happening in the family, what
• 38:41
  was happening in events. She told me that my mom was
• 38:45
  really, really sick and my mom had to go through.
• 38:51
  She had to go through like radiation and all of these
• 38:54
  things. But I still never apologized to
• 38:56
  my mom. And and you, you say apologize
• 38:59
  because she would not call you. Was it was it a dead name issue?
• 39:02
  She would not refuse to call you Aiden, correct.
• 39:05
  And that was like a boundary you draw.
• 39:07
  You said if you unless you call me Aiden, I'm not going to be in
• 39:10
  contact with you. Yeah, we had that situation
• 39:14
  mixed with she really did not like my my wife.
• 39:18
  She didn't like how she was. She didn't like how she kind of
• 39:21
  parented. She just.
• 39:22
  She had a lot of commentary. And I felt like my back was
• 39:25
  against the wall. And now here's this woman in
• 39:28
  front of me who accepts all of these things about me.
• 39:32
  And my mom was really against everything.
• 39:35
  Was she like a mother figure, the wife?
• 39:37
  In the end I realized that. She was like a a new mom figure
• 39:41
  to you that was going with whatever space you were in,
• 39:44
  whether it was Aiden, lesbian, trans.
• 39:47
  Yeah, in 20/19/2018 I had top surgery and she was there for
• 39:52
  that. She was there, I wasn't talking
• 39:54
  to my family, but she was there for my ex-wife was there for
• 39:57
  that. And come 2019 I had just, you
• 40:03
  know, thinking all those things would fix me. 2019 comes and I
• 40:08
  just still don't feel happy at but I'm in my own in the garage
• 40:13
  and I remember thinking to myself she's like a mom and I
• 40:19
  have this like realization. And one thing about me is if I
• 40:23
  think about something or it's on my mind somehow, some way, it
• 40:27
  comes up in conversation because it's just right there.
• 40:30
  And in this situation, I just did not want.
• 40:34
  How do I get a divorce now? How do I leave the situation
• 40:37
  realizing I'm with this woman because she's like my mom and a
• 40:40
  better version of my mom. I now chose her over my mom.
• 40:44
  We now live away from my family. I'm isolated with her, her
• 40:50
  daughter and by her family and like how do I get out?
• 40:54
  I committed I can married at this point.
• 40:56
  I got married in 2017. By law, you're.
• 40:58
  Married and now I'm divorced. But yeah, by law at that time,
• 41:01
  yes, I, I was married and so I'm committed like, so 2016 was the
• 41:08
  first year, 2017, I met her in April, she moved in with me two
• 41:13
  weeks later. We were engaged six weeks, six
• 41:15
  months later. And by November of 2017, we were
• 41:18
  married. And it was just this rapid
• 41:22
  quick, but everything I've done was rapid.
• 41:25
  Once I found the word, instantly Boom started this process to
• 41:27
  transition. Once I found someone to love me,
• 41:30
  Boom started this process to marriage, thinking all of these
• 41:33
  things are going to fix the brokenness that happened between
• 41:36
  10 and 14. So it come 2018, I had my top
• 41:40
  surgery. I try to, you know, be present
• 41:43
  in my marriage, be present in this, you know, still going
• 41:46
  through my process. Here it comes 2019, my weight
• 41:49
  loss is kind of happening. The hormones are kind of getting
• 41:52
  regulated by this points now. Four years on hormones and like
• 41:55
  finally, because I gained a lot of weight just with the hormonal
• 41:58
  change and the hair was taking forever to come.
• 42:01
  So by 2019, I'm finally feeling good.
• 42:04
  I finally feel like I'm getting closer to achieving things.
• 42:08
  I'm going to pull up a picture for people too of this time as
• 42:11
  we're tracking your journey here.
• 42:12
  So this is you. I think we're going to pull up
• 42:15
  the picture early 2020. Yes, so in this so.
• 42:19
  People, when they see you this, they think this is a man.
• 42:21
  There's no doubt. About it.
• 42:22
  My voice was deep by this point. My beard was on point by this
• 42:26
  point. Tell me for folks listening,
• 42:29
  because this is also, I think a powerful education and what so
• 42:33
  many people are being influenced by today and young people are
• 42:37
  going through today. So what were the So you're on
• 42:41
  cross sex hormones, you're on testosterone.
• 42:43
  Now at this point you've been on them for almost going on into
• 42:47
  the 5th year because it started 2019, completed the 4th year.
• 42:51
  What other surgeries or treatments have you had at this
• 42:55
  point? At that point I had just had a
• 42:58
  double mastectomy, free nipple regraft and by this point I had
• 43:01
  three hysterectomy scheduled and was going to begin the process
• 43:07
  of what is considered phalloplasty.
• 43:09
  And phalloplasty is the attachment of from a skin graft
• 43:14
  to attach to create. Can I say it?
• 43:17
  That's OK. Yeah, fake male body part.
• 43:20
  Create a fake male body part, correct?
• 43:22
  And the first stage is having a hysterectomy and then the next
• 43:27
  stage would be to close everything up.
• 43:30
  Then the next stage would be to relocate, redirect your urethra
• 43:33
  and then you get the skin graft. And as I continue to think about
• 43:36
  this process, there was people at this time, there's like a
• 43:39
  move of us, like we all followed everybody each other's journey.
• 43:43
  We all watched each other on YouTube.
• 43:44
  We all kind of saw there was somebody ahead of us who had
• 43:48
  gotten bottom surgery is what it's called.
• 43:50
  And in his process, he has so many complications.
• 43:57
  So many because everything I described, you cannot get it in
• 44:00
  one surgery. You have to have the first stage
• 44:03
  go through six months of healing to make sure your body is
• 44:05
  healed. Then you go to the next stage,
• 44:07
  go through six months of healing if you don't have any
• 44:09
  complications. This friend of ours had had so
• 44:12
  many complications. What are some examples of
• 44:14
  complications from the steps 1 by 1 of bottom surgery?
• 44:19
  So some of the complications are like your body doesn't actually
• 44:22
  internally heal. You would think you're
• 44:24
  relocating the urethra from where it's at, extending it,
• 44:28
  removing it and making it somewhere else.
• 44:31
  And if the skin does not take, they take from the inside of
• 44:34
  your mouth to kind of extend the clitoris to kind of help with
• 44:39
  everything. Testosterone already makes it go
• 44:41
  from something little to a little bit bigger.
• 44:43
  They take it from your mouth to kind of add towards that.
• 44:46
  And in that the skin graft could not take, you could scab up
• 44:50
  really well. You can get infections, and
• 44:52
  these are internal infections. And so the friend of ours was in
• 44:57
  the third stage and he like he had a colostomy bag because he
• 45:02
  was not able to function from anything.
• 45:04
  Everything had to come out of his side because all of his body
• 45:07
  was not healing. The the the stages just were not
• 45:10
  and so. This was a this was a woman who
• 45:13
  is trans trans trying to transition and and you're seeing
• 45:17
  you're following each other's journeys because you're doing
• 45:18
  you're creating create social media content.
• 45:20
  Oh, cool. So he's on we're all watching,
• 45:22
  but he is identifying as a heat as on TikTok.
• 45:25
  Yep, but they she ended up with a colostomy bag.
• 45:28
  Yep, because that function could not work because they needed it
• 45:31
  to heal. So you cannot have anything
• 45:33
  going into your lower body part that's going to cause you to get
• 45:36
  infection and feces will cause it's in that area, area will
• 45:39
  cause infection and in the urethra you can get a UTI.
• 45:43
  Everything like that was happening.
• 45:45
  And to this day he has complications and he still lives
• 45:47
  the life, but now he influences people to not get it.
• 45:51
  So this is a woman living as a man still identifying
• 45:55
  transgender but saying don't do bottom surgery.
• 45:57
  Correct. Advocating that not and so it's
• 45:59
  an. Interesting he comes, he can de
• 46:01
  transition and. Completely in the name of Jesus.
• 46:04
  In the name of Jesus. Are you in touch with some of
• 46:06
  these folks from before or? A lot of people have kind of
• 46:11
  stepped away because many people have been de transitioning Lila.
• 46:15
  It is a move that is happening. God is doing something, but not
• 46:18
  everybody has de transitioned because of God.
• 46:22
  People detransition because they're having really bad health
• 46:24
  risks. People are detransitioning
• 46:26
  because they're having really bad mental breakdown and they
• 46:30
  want to still be this quote UN quote identified as a man, but
• 46:33
  they're fine not being on the hormones right now.
• 46:36
  If you did not take hormones and you wanted to be a man, you're
• 46:38
  going through a whole different process.
• 46:40
  But now that you've started hormones, you've got your body
• 46:42
  in this in regular system and it's causing you all these
• 46:46
  complications. The last thing you want to do is
• 46:48
  stop. But you're you have to.
• 46:51
  I have a friend. I got to see her yesterday and
• 46:54
  the start of her de transition was because of health risks and
• 46:58
  her stopping. She realizes that God created
• 47:01
  her beautifully. And she does have a lot of side
• 47:04
  effects. She went through a couple stages
• 47:06
  already and you know, in, in, in that bottom surgery.
• 47:10
  So she did not complete it, but she does have to go through her
• 47:13
  life now with a few stages done and I believe in the coming days
• 47:20
  we will have doctors who can help actually.
• 47:23
  And we're going to get into the lack of help and the eventual
• 47:26
  help you found. I know we're we're we're going
• 47:29
  through this incredible story, your story piece by piece.
• 47:33
  I have one more question, though, before we go to the next
• 47:35
  chapter. I think people need to know
• 47:37
  this. I think it's important.
• 47:38
  So if you're willing to Jerry, you've touched on that already.
• 47:41
  Can you explain you, you mentioned a few stages, but you
• 47:44
  said there's several stages of bottom surgery and you, you
• 47:47
  talked about, you know, repositioning their urethra.
• 47:50
  We talked about skin grafts to, you know, build, you know,
• 47:54
  phalloplasty to kind of build a body part.
• 47:57
  Can you give us if there's like 4 stages?
• 47:58
  What are those stages briefly so that people just understand this
• 48:02
  is what is typically being offered to a young girl who is
• 48:06
  now thinking they're a boy and this is the menu basically
• 48:10
  that's being offered them. What was offered you?
• 48:12
  Absolutely. So the beginning stage is the
• 48:15
  hysterectomy, which is to remove from your inside.
• 48:18
  And so when you're removing that, you're removing, you know,
• 48:21
  everything. Ovaries, fallopian tubes,
• 48:23
  everything. So no fertility.
• 48:25
  No fertility. You're completely taking
• 48:27
  everything out and eliminating that chance ever.
• 48:30
  And that's stage 1. Stage 2 is the closing of the
• 48:35
  vaginal opening, like sewing it completely shut in the thought
• 48:40
  process. You're like, well, what would
• 48:41
  happen with the menstrual cycle? What would happen with the
• 48:43
  blood? What happens with the overflow?
• 48:45
  They don't have an explanation. You don't get like dumped like
• 48:48
  nothing cleans out so. Well, if they're removing the
• 48:51
  uterus first, right? The idea would be you're you're
• 48:54
  stopping up the. Some people can keep it.
• 48:56
  Yeah, some people can. They advise not to keep
• 49:00
  anything. That's why they advise the
• 49:01
  hysterectomy first. So there's some people that.
• 49:04
  Still have some? There's some people that will do
• 49:06
  a sew up of their vagina, but then they'll actually still
• 49:10
  leave their uterus. Some people have done that and
• 49:13
  you can see the complications just even thinking about the
• 49:15
  natural body of how that could be.
• 49:17
  They advise that you get the hysterectomy.
• 49:20
  They advise for a safer process, you close the vaginal opening,
• 49:24
  you relocate the urethra and then you begin the skin graft.
• 49:29
  You can either take from the forearm or the thigh and they go
• 49:33
  at a girth that you prefer. They try to go off of your body
• 49:36
  weight and your size. What would be the most suitable?
• 49:40
  I want to mention none of it functions.
• 49:43
  It cannot be erect. You cannot ejaculate like that,
• 49:47
  does not happen to you. You can do the movement.
• 49:51
  That's it. And there's is.
• 49:53
  There feeling. No, a lot of people don't have
• 49:56
  sensation. If anything, it'll be five to
• 49:59
  seven years before you feel maybe get some sensation.
• 50:02
  The same thing with top surgery. A lot of people, myself
• 50:06
  included, cannot feel the nipples when you when you get
• 50:09
  it, they do a for the mastectomy they removed and they and so
• 50:14
  it's taken off of your body and now reattached.
• 50:16
  Do they tell people this is a completely non functioning piece
• 50:20
  of human flesh? Well, they.
• 50:21
  Don't say it like that, they say It may not.
• 50:25
  It may not work. May not work.
• 50:26
  It might work. Correct.
• 50:28
  And so they're giving you this false hope.
• 50:30
  And then if you hear that, oh, my body heals pretty good.
• 50:34
  So I don't think it would be me. And you're thinking this, you're
• 50:36
  hopeful if you cut your arm and you're like, I heal pretty good.
• 50:39
  Like, you know, that's I don't have too much of scars.
• 50:42
  You're not thinking of a physical change to your body in
• 50:45
  hopes that it can take, but it doesn't actually work.
• 50:49
  So that was my stop. I had three hysterectomy
• 50:53
  scheduled and I was like, if it's not going to work, why
• 50:56
  would I go through this? Why would I begin this entire
• 51:00
  journey that's going to take two years to complete?
• 51:03
  What about the price, Jessica? How much was were they quoting
• 51:06
  you and was there any insurance that would cover any of this?
• 51:08
  Yeah, Kaiser. Kaiser covers Kaiser.
• 51:12
  Covers thaliopathy and hysterectomies for transitions.
• 51:19
  And. Mastectomies.
• 51:21
  Well, they did that to Chloe Ko when she was 15 years.
• 51:23
  Old completely. I went through a lot of us go
• 51:26
  through Kaiser at the time. I was under.
• 51:27
  So if you're on Kaiser, they will cover your transit, your
• 51:30
  transition surgery. I had a $10 co-pay for my top
• 51:33
  surgery because it all funds under Yeah, it falls under this
• 51:39
  false idea of of, you know, the transgender agenda.
• 51:45
  And so if you're on this transgender journey, it's called
• 51:48
  gender affirming care is what they call it.
• 51:51
  And so you would be going through a gender affirming
• 51:53
  process. And so I did not continue on the
• 51:57
  gender affirming process because I saw for real life, not some
• 52:02
  doctor telling me it'll work, from my friends having
• 52:05
  complications, from my friends having a colostomy back coming
• 52:08
  out of the sight of them telling people lifting their shirts,
• 52:12
  saying you don't want this and they hated life.
• 52:15
  And and the colostomy bag was because they had so nuts their
• 52:19
  vagina. Well, they had at this stage
• 52:22
  they have already had the attachment and with the
• 52:25
  attachment was having so many complications.
• 52:27
  They had had phalloplasty at this point.
• 52:30
  So then so stage 3 is having the attachment.
• 52:34
  After you get that, if you heal so far, you will then have a rod
• 52:38
  inserted and in this insert they will put some people get pumps
• 52:43
  and in having the pump, you can press it from your hip and it
• 52:47
  will cause it to to go up. But again, nothing is completed.
• 52:52
  You're you're just because things are relocated doesn't
• 52:55
  mean it actually has any type of tingle sensation.
• 52:58
  Nothing. It can just, you press it and it
• 53:00
  kind of blows up like a balloon. That's it's just.
• 53:05
  It's so insane, even when you talk about it, you press a
• 53:08
  button on your hip for this, this piece of flesh that's
• 53:13
  supposed to be a, a penis, that part of the male body, which is
• 53:16
  obviously not to make it inflate, and that's supposed to
• 53:20
  be sex. And it doesn't actually create
• 53:23
  pleasure. It can't do that.
• 53:24
  It has all of these complications and this is
• 53:26
  somehow the completion of becoming a man.
• 53:28
  Yeah. And then some people, if they
• 53:30
  want, it's called a, there's a name for it and I'm trying to
• 53:34
  remember, but they can take a different part of some, you
• 53:39
  know, another skin graft and they can create what would be
• 53:42
  testicles. And they put these two little
• 53:45
  like silicone little balls in there to give the whole
• 53:49
  illusion. That would be like your final
• 53:52
  step. I feel like.
• 53:53
  If you go through that. 100 years from now, people are going
• 53:56
  to look back on this to just say Frankenstein had nothing on
• 53:58
  these, on these doctors. I mean, Frankenstein's maker,
• 54:02
  it's completely what in the. So you can do all of these
• 54:05
  steps, but it doesn't happen rapid because most people have a
• 54:09
  lot of complications because you Can you imagine you're just
• 54:11
  completely mutilating everything and hope that it heals.
• 54:14
  And it's so sad. Those who have began the
• 54:17
  process, some people who are in the process, by the grace of
• 54:20
  God, some people have not completed it.
• 54:23
  But there are real life people who don't know the Lord, who did
• 54:26
  not complete it, who now have to live with the mutilization that
• 54:30
  they did to themselves. My very close friend has to live
• 54:34
  with some process and like we were crying last night about it
• 54:38
  together and we were just like you know the scarring that
• 54:43
  happens. And she looked me in my eyes
• 54:46
  Lila and was like I want nothing more now than to be a mom and I
• 54:50
  will never have that opportunity.
• 54:55
  And it put me in an interesting thought process of like, I'm so
• 54:58
  grateful I did not, but my heart hurt for my good friend.
• 55:02
  She had had the hysterectomy. She.
• 55:04
  Had the hysterectomy and she had the clothing and she had the
• 55:08
  relocating of the urethra and she didn't go to the next step.
• 55:12
  And we just, we just looked at each other and she was like, you
• 55:16
  know, her eyes were watering. And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
• 55:20
  Like that's all I could say to her.
• 55:22
  Because nowhere did we know we would actually D transition.
• 55:26
  Nowhere did we think we would actually have the courage to
• 55:31
  live how we were created. But we have to live with the
• 55:34
  things that we've done, even just as anyone who is on drugs
• 55:38
  have to live with what they did while they were on drugs or on
• 55:41
  alcohol, live with what they did, the consequences of their
• 55:44
  action. I think, and I believe truly in
• 55:47
  my heart, God can do all things. But there are some things that
• 55:51
  are really, really, really hard to accept that we've done.
• 55:56
  Even with my you know, my top surgery or double mastectomy, it
• 56:01
  was so hard at the beginning to accept when I decided to
• 56:05
  detransition what I had did by the grace as I've now been off
• 56:11
  of hormones for years. My my I have one nipple that can
• 56:15
  function. I have one nipple that can that
• 56:18
  is produced like certain things have come out of it and I went
• 56:22
  to the doctor and they were like, but at least it works.
• 56:25
  So if you were to get pregnant, get married, get pregnant, one
• 56:28
  day you might be able to breastfeed.
• 56:29
  They're telling. Yes, and they're telling me that
• 56:31
  and I'm like, Lord, I will hold on to that hope.
• 56:34
  I will hold on to the fact that you can't do all things I can't.
• 56:38
  I will hold on to that and that's what my friend is doing.
• 56:42
  As much as we cried, we closed out with that thought process of
• 56:45
  what God can do He. Can do miracles.
• 56:47
  So I I will join you in praying for that.
• 56:49
  And you know, on the show we've had some recent guests who talk
• 56:52
  about miracles that God has done raising people from the dead.
• 56:56
  Yeah, it happens throughout Christian history and it came
• 56:59
  through the power of Jesus the name.
• 57:01
  And it can happen today. Miraculous healing, man.
• 57:04
  Lila. So we will join together in
• 57:06
  prayer for that and for your friend.
• 57:09
  So thank you for explaining that for people because it is an
• 57:12
  education. And I think it's it's, it's
• 57:14
  gnarly, it's tough. These are real people enduring
• 57:17
  real scars and their medical experiments.
• 57:20
  Shame on the doctors who do these horrific things to people
• 57:24
  who are hurting and confused. It is wrong.
• 57:26
  It is evil. Exactly.
• 57:28
  Let's go back into your timeline.
• 57:30
  So you are in 20 early 2020. We just saw your photo.
• 57:34
  You're saying they know to hysterectomies even though
• 57:36
  you're scheduling them. But at this point you've decided
• 57:39
  this woman that you are married to, you're like, this does not
• 57:43
  make sense anymore. This basically is like a mom to
• 57:45
  me. So what happens next?
• 57:47
  Let me hit the end of 2019 right before 2020 because 2020 changes
• 57:52
  everything in my life. In 2019, I felt just so much
• 57:55
  weight of realizing that she is, you know, like a mom.
• 57:59
  And I tell her this now I do feel like I should not have told
• 58:02
  her feel like I should have walked through a breakup way
• 58:04
  better. But I told her this because I
• 58:07
  had a suicide attempt in 2019. Lila, I'm.
• 58:10
  So sorry. It weighed so much on me for the
• 58:14
  decisions I've made now I am so far deep surgeries, marriage,
• 58:21
  away from my family and I wanted nothing more than just to get
• 58:25
  out of my head and just for it to stop.
• 58:28
  To stop thinking about what happened when I was younger, to
• 58:32
  stop making excuses, to stop trying to fix everything.
• 58:35
  I can't go back to the little girl that was hurt no part of me
• 58:39
  could ever go back to. Her no part can go back and hug
• 58:42
  her and be there for her or confront anything that happened,
• 58:47
  no part of me. So in 2019, in October, I took a
• 58:51
  lot of pills and I was waiting to die so I wasn't contemplating
• 58:57
  suicide. Lila, I was at my point.
• 59:03
  I was texting people like normal while I was just waiting for the
• 59:06
  pills to kick in. My wife did not know and as I'm
• 59:10
  in this breaking point, I don't know if you know this, but it's
• 59:13
  illegal to try to kill yourself in public.
• 59:15
  They will take you away. The police came and knocked on
• 59:18
  my door. I was sitting in my car at a
• 59:20
  park and they took me to the hospital to pump my system.
• 59:23
  How did they know? A friend had told another friend
• 59:27
  that I had not been in class and I was supposed to be in class at
• 59:31
  this time. It was an evening I was I went
• 59:33
  to Barber school and at night time I was supposed to be in
• 59:36
  class. And so she had let somebody else
• 59:38
  know. When she let that other person
• 59:39
  know, that person called the cops.
• 59:41
  To this day I don't talk to her, but I believe she was an Angel.
• 59:44
  I believe she. Was.
• 59:47
  And from pumping my system, they take me on a Gurney to the
• 59:51
  mental hospital. And now I'm in the mental
• 59:54
  hospital on a 5150 hold and I have to talk about what
• 59:59
  happened. Can you imagine, Lila?
• 1:00:02
  You want to take your life and it you don't die, you don't die.
• 1:00:08
  And now you're like, what do I do?
• 1:00:11
  I wanted to not be here. And now I have to face
• 1:00:17
  everything I just tried to run away from.
• 1:00:21
  I'm talking to the therapist that's in there.
• 1:00:24
  I have to recognize and in my conversation, that's when I
• 1:00:28
  realized these mommy issues. I had the thought in the garage.
• 1:00:32
  I suppressed it. It got too overwhelming.
• 1:00:34
  I did not tell anyone. So I'm talking to this therapist
• 1:00:37
  and she's like, you're going to have to tell her.
• 1:00:41
  It's so in October, after this attempt, I told her we had to
• 1:00:46
  split up, you know, because I realized, you know, she was a
• 1:00:50
  very good person, don't get me wrong, but I did not marry her
• 1:00:54
  for the right reasons. I did not marry her because of
• 1:00:58
  and because I was meant to. I married her because she was
• 1:01:01
  safe for me. She was kind to me.
• 1:01:03
  She loved me. Those are good reasons, but it's
• 1:01:07
  not a God reason to marry someone.
• 1:01:09
  We got married in San Francisco. And she's a you're a woman.
• 1:01:13
  Ultimately she's a woman now, you understand, but at the time
• 1:01:18
  you had enough of a reasoning it sounds like, especially with the
• 1:01:21
  trauma of trying to end your life because you're so broken
• 1:01:24
  inside to realize at least this is not right.
• 1:01:28
  Even if you're not, you don't have a full vision yet.
• 1:01:30
  Completely. And while I'm in the mental
• 1:01:32
  hospital, I have a phone call with that friend who called the
• 1:01:35
  cops and she didn't say God, but she did say there must be a
• 1:01:40
  reason that you're supposed to be here.
• 1:01:42
  And I said you're right. So all of November and December
• 1:01:47
  of 2019, I was on this bounce back because I stopped caring.
• 1:01:52
  So now I had to like work through, you know, the
• 1:01:53
  separation. What are we going to do?
• 1:01:55
  I move somewhere else. You move somewhere else.
• 1:01:57
  How about you move with your parents?
• 1:01:58
  Because I'm not talking to my mom.
• 1:02:00
  I kept the apartment that we had because it was a couple more
• 1:02:03
  months left on the lease and then I start a new job again.
• 1:02:08
  I look like the person that's in that photo.
• 1:02:10
  So come February 9th of 2020, February 2 week, the last week
• 1:02:15
  of January, I started a new job. The first two weeks I'm there
• 1:02:19
  and I should have paid attention to the things around me.
• 1:02:22
  There was like Christian signs on the wall.
• 1:02:24
  There was low Christian music, but I never paid attention to
• 1:02:26
  these things. You know, my second week in the
• 1:02:28
  job, the owner of the company came and I was sitting like this
• 1:02:32
  at the desk. He pulled up a chair right next
• 1:02:34
  to me and he is shared the gospel with me.
• 1:02:38
  He shared the gospel with did not know I was trans.
• 1:02:40
  To this day I don't know if he knows we we lost contact before
• 1:02:44
  I detransition but put up a chair next to me and he said did
• 1:02:48
  you know that God loves you even if you don't talk to your
• 1:02:50
  family? So he didn't know I was married,
• 1:02:52
  going through a divorce or separation now preparing for
• 1:02:55
  divorce. He didn't know that I didn't
• 1:02:56
  talk to my family, but he had no idea that I had this trans
• 1:03:00
  background or all this brokenness.
• 1:03:04
  And so when he told me that God love me no matter what, talking
• 1:03:09
  to my family or not, I received it.
• 1:03:12
  From that day, I have had a fire in my heart.
• 1:03:16
  I felt like a chicken without a head right until that moment.
• 1:03:18
  Because I now know that I did not die and I was meant to be
• 1:03:21
  here. And then here, two months later,
• 1:03:23
  three months later, I hear the gospel.
• 1:03:25
  That's why I did not die. And I have given my life to
• 1:03:29
  Jesus. But it has not been the easiest
• 1:03:32
  process, but it has been vulnerable.
• 1:03:35
  It has been raw and very, very transparent.
• 1:03:38
  That same day he led me in the salvation prayer.
• 1:03:40
  He said, write everything down. Write your prayers down, write
• 1:03:44
  your thoughts. I still have the beginning of
• 1:03:46
  when I started because I was a care manager at this time.
• 1:03:49
  So I was like, God, I need caregivers for this client and
• 1:03:52
  he'd show up. God, I need somebody who could
• 1:03:55
  take care of me. So and so and he'd show up and
• 1:03:58
  I'm like, OK, he's really answering my prayers.
• 1:04:01
  He's so real. So it started on this outer
• 1:04:03
  level, but then I started to get to know him.
• 1:04:06
  That pastor had led me to, I've only been to two churches where
• 1:04:09
  were my home. He led me to my very first
• 1:04:12
  church. This is all in Sacramento.
• 1:04:15
  And I went to church and again, they did not know, but I was not
• 1:04:19
  on social media. So telling people I was trans.
• 1:04:23
  So that came at a later point telling trans and Christian.
• 1:04:25
  So at this point, I'm just living as quote UN quote a man.
• 1:04:29
  Everything is now unlocked on certain things on my phone.
• 1:04:31
  But for the longest it wasn't. I just lived as a man, didn't
• 1:04:34
  tell anybody. So at this church, they were all
• 1:04:37
  for me, like they were all for my journey.
• 1:04:39
  They could see the fire. They could see my desire to know
• 1:04:42
  the Lord. I was at the altar crying all
• 1:04:44
  the time. I was very vulnerable.
• 1:04:47
  I became an usher in the church. I was still going to Barber
• 1:04:51
  school and I met a woman at Barber school and she came to
• 1:04:55
  church with me and we both sought the Lord together.
• 1:04:59
  And so now in 2020, we're pursuing the Lord together.
• 1:05:03
  And that picture is the is actually the bathroom of that
• 1:05:05
  office. And we're pursuing the Lord and
• 1:05:09
  we want to get married now because.
• 1:05:11
  Before the Lord does. She know that you are trans.
• 1:05:14
  She does know that I was trans and so but we together now
• 1:05:17
  pursuing the Lord. I'm doing this the right way.
• 1:05:19
  I have God in my life, someone closer to my age.
• 1:05:23
  I'm thinking I'm doing all the right things.
• 1:05:26
  Our wedding was supposed to be December 4th of 2020 and it was
• 1:05:30
  a Friday. On Monday the Lord tells me you
• 1:05:35
  are either going to hurt her now or you're going to hurt her
• 1:05:38
  later. This is 9 months of following
• 1:05:43
  Ten months of following the Lord and I hear him tell me I'm
• 1:05:47
  either going to hurt her now or I'm going to hurt her later.
• 1:05:50
  Here I am now 2025. I understand what he meant by
• 1:05:53
  later called off the wedding. I had no idea I was going to
• 1:05:58
  actually D transit. I didn't know.
• 1:06:00
  I took a lot of courage to listen to that.
• 1:06:03
  Girl, that was the Lord that was the Holy Spirit telling me and I
• 1:06:08
  but I knew the certain feelings. I I I started to discern they
• 1:06:11
  were like pay attention to one of God tells you stuff.
• 1:06:13
  Remember, I was writing everything.
• 1:06:15
  Down you weren't convicted yet about the trans part yes, you
• 1:06:18
  were just you were feeling like you're in your in your element.
• 1:06:20
  The Are you still on tea at this time or is it a lower dose?
• 1:06:23
  Nope, I'm still on test. You've levelled out, you're
• 1:06:26
  feeling good. I'm looking good, I feel good
• 1:06:28
  and I'm like, OK now I'm at this peak of manhood so to speak,
• 1:06:32
  marrying a beautiful woman. Like I'm thinking I'm on the
• 1:06:35
  trajectory now. I have God in my life.
• 1:06:36
  I'm doing this the way I'm supposed.
• 1:06:37
  To do you and this woman keep it a secret because you weren't
• 1:06:41
  telling people openly at the you weren't coming out openly as
• 1:06:43
  trans at this. Point because I just let go of
• 1:06:46
  the trans identity. Wow, you're just like, I'm just
• 1:06:48
  a man. I was like, what we would say on
• 1:06:51
  social media and stuff is we did not transition to talk about
• 1:06:54
  transitioning. Now it's very, very funny the
• 1:06:57
  life I lived to talk about transitioning, but I did not
• 1:07:00
  transition to talk about transitioning.
• 1:07:02
  I transitioned to live as this man period.
• 1:07:04
  I dropped trans. I took things off of my social
• 1:07:07
  media that said I was a trans man and just was just a man.
• 1:07:12
  And as I'm with her and then we break up, we tell everyone we
• 1:07:16
  broke up because of COVID. So we wanted certain people out.
• 1:07:19
  Our waiting that could not be there is what we started telling
• 1:07:21
  people. So this was December of 2020.
• 1:07:25
  By February of 21, we were officially like broken up.
• 1:07:28
  But we had like did it in like a soft way.
• 1:07:30
  She was on the worship team. So she stayed there.
• 1:07:32
  I think she even still goes to church there.
• 1:07:34
  So by February, I was like, OK, I need to be the one to leave.
• 1:07:38
  It's going to be awkward for both of us.
• 1:07:40
  I went about a month with no church, and I'm still at this
• 1:07:43
  job. And a caregiver comes into this
• 1:07:46
  job and she tells me she's sitting there doing a job
• 1:07:50
  application and she's like, hey, have you ever been to the church
• 1:07:53
  down the street? It's called Thrive.
• 1:07:55
  And I was like, wow, no, I'm not.
• 1:07:58
  I went to the very first time thinking it was a prayer
• 1:08:00
  service. It was a celebrated recovery.
• 1:08:02
  I was like, oh. Celebrate Recovery of addiction.
• 1:08:05
  Yes, but I thought it was a prayer group.
• 1:08:07
  So when she tells me this, she doesn't go.
• 1:08:09
  She just invited me to go on a Friday night.
• 1:08:10
  This was Thursday. She's like, it's tomorrow.
• 1:08:12
  I was like, I'll absolutely go, but God had me go that day for
• 1:08:16
  several different reasons. The first, I met the guy who was
• 1:08:19
  leading the group, his name is Lonnie, and he introduced me to
• 1:08:22
  the pastor the very immediate Sunday and was like there's a
• 1:08:26
  fire about you. So he sense the Lord.
• 1:08:29
  Again, not feeling conviction of Aden.
• 1:08:32
  Second, they were talking about real addictions in the church.
• 1:08:36
  They were talking about meth addictions, they were talking
• 1:08:38
  about coke addictions. They were talking very, very
• 1:08:40
  real in this, but that was what I needed to know.
• 1:08:44
  It was a safe space to be real. Now that I've been to different
• 1:08:47
  churches, like, you know, kind of seen more.
• 1:08:50
  The very first one was a Pentecostal church, which is
• 1:08:52
  very, very rigid. And it would what made sense why
• 1:08:55
  I was not to go through my process there.
• 1:08:57
  They would have never known how to walk with me.
• 1:08:59
  They would have never done any of that.
• 1:09:01
  So this is a church that specializes in people that are
• 1:09:05
  recovering from all different kinds of addictions.
• 1:09:07
  It's just a very, very honest, vulnerable church.
• 1:09:10
  The other one was like, you know, a couple families and all
• 1:09:12
  their kids and generations. And you know, I'm not saying
• 1:09:16
  anything negative at the church. It just would not have been the
• 1:09:18
  place I would have needed to de transition.
• 1:09:20
  God knew that I got very close there.
• 1:09:23
  Don't get me wrong, becoming an usher, I cut the pastor's hair
• 1:09:25
  all the time because I was a Barber at this point.
• 1:09:27
  I got very connected with everybody.
• 1:09:29
  But once the divorce, once the separation and not actually
• 1:09:32
  going through with the marriage, I knew I needed to go.
• 1:09:35
  She was on the worship team. They can get a different usher.
• 1:09:37
  She was on the. Worship Team.
• 1:09:39
  So here I was now in April of 2021 and you know, just hearing
• 1:09:44
  how real they could be. I didn't feel to talk about the
• 1:09:46
  trans thing yet, but I did hear how vulnerable people could be.
• 1:09:50
  When I went on that Sunday, they were in like jerseys and cargo
• 1:09:54
  shorts and it was very more, it's considered a non
• 1:09:57
  denominational, very just loving church.
• 1:10:00
  And I started going and I felt very kind, received a lot of
• 1:10:03
  kindness there, received a lot of love there.
• 1:10:05
  I sat in the front row. I still sit in the front row in
• 1:10:08
  the same spot. I've done my entire journey.
• 1:10:10
  So here's April of 2021, I'm on this journey getting closer to
• 1:10:16
  the Lord. The pastor sees the fire,
• 1:10:18
  everyone sees the fire. And by August of 2021, you know,
• 1:10:24
  God's working on the forgiveness, God's working on
• 1:10:26
  all the things that I've now done by May, I should rewrite to
• 1:10:30
  May of 2021. God tells me like to go through
• 1:10:34
  this thing with my mom and forgive my mom.
• 1:10:38
  Forgive what she did, forgive myself of what I did, forgive
• 1:10:42
  how she was receiving everything.
• 1:10:44
  And it was her birthday. And I messaged her and she would
• 1:10:49
  always say she's 29 for every year.
• 1:10:53
  She would just say 29. I said did you make it to 30
• 1:10:56
  yet? Because how do you come back
• 1:10:58
  after not talking 2 1/2 years? How do you say I was wrong?
• 1:11:05
  You were right in message on Facebook Messenger.
• 1:11:08
  I didn't even text her. How do you come back?
• 1:11:12
  I did what? The only thing I could do was
• 1:11:14
  joke, and it was hard. In the beginning we were kind of
• 1:11:17
  rough a little bit. Not mean, just not really deep.
• 1:11:22
  And I didn't get fully the healing with her just yet, but
• 1:11:25
  at least she let me back. And was she accepting Aiden at
• 1:11:30
  this point? Was she calling you that?
• 1:11:31
  She at this point, she said, well, at least he's not at least
• 1:11:34
  she, but he is not married to this lady that I didn't like.
• 1:11:38
  And it sounds like, yes, she's finding, he's finding God.
• 1:11:42
  So I'm going to just roll with this and look also like it looks
• 1:11:45
  like the transition looks done. So we're just going to be
• 1:11:48
  comfortable with this for now, with maybe where she was at this
• 1:11:50
  point. Yeah, She now when we've talked
• 1:11:52
  about it, she said during the time that I was gone, she did
• 1:11:55
  all that she could to try to understand what I did.
• 1:11:58
  She's like, I would watch videos on YouTube.
• 1:12:00
  She would tell me that she would watch the show I Am Jazz so she
• 1:12:04
  could understand what was kind of happening into my thought
• 1:12:06
  process. But here's where it gets hard
• 1:12:09
  because now I'm talking to her again.
• 1:12:12
  She's telling me she's understanding.
• 1:12:14
  August, I want to become a leader in the church and I have
• 1:12:17
  a conversation with the pastor to become a leader in the
• 1:12:20
  church. They follow Second Timothy and
• 1:12:22
  his talks about like being free of sin.
• 1:12:24
  I did not know they're going to go through your social media.
• 1:12:27
  So from the beginning of 21 till about August of 21, I was
• 1:12:32
  telling people you could be trans and Christian.
• 1:12:35
  On your social media. On my social media, church
• 1:12:36
  didn't know. On TikTok, no, I did not think
• 1:12:38
  that they were looking at any of this information.
• 1:12:40
  I did not think any of that. So in August, I come to talk to
• 1:12:44
  them. And by the way, when you're
• 1:12:47
  doing this on your social media, are you identifying as trans?
• 1:12:49
  Yes. So you are sharing that?
• 1:12:51
  Yes, so if you went to my TikTok now I got hacked so I can't fix
• 1:12:55
  anything, but all the videos are still there to my knowledge.
• 1:12:57
  I could see them all if I just looked them up from my current
• 1:12:59
  TikTok. I could see it all where I'm
• 1:13:02
  walking through this process. This is how the Lord is speaking
• 1:13:04
  to me. So I think the hard part was I
• 1:13:07
  could still feel the fire. I just had to continue on the
• 1:13:09
  journey. I was like, I want to be a trans
• 1:13:11
  pastor, I want to be a pastor and I want to advocate that the
• 1:13:14
  both worlds can collide. You can do it.
• 1:13:17
  And you had no conviction yet? Not yet.
• 1:13:20
  I think this is, I think this is so important for people to hear
• 1:13:25
  because the Lord works really mysteriously with our our
• 1:13:28
  different souls. And I'm going to ask you, I want
• 1:13:31
  you to go back to into the, the timeline that you're on right
• 1:13:34
  now. But I want to ask you about this
• 1:13:35
  question of conviction. So we're going to save that.
• 1:13:37
  But I want you to keep going with where you are because
• 1:13:39
  you're saying not yet it's going.
• 1:13:40
  To come in the next two months. So August, I have that
• 1:13:43
  conversation because I want to be a leader.
• 1:13:46
  And in that church's process, they go through looking at your
• 1:13:49
  social media. So they call me in for a
• 1:13:51
  meeting. It's the head pastor and a young
• 1:13:52
  adult pastor because I want to join young adults in this
• 1:13:55
  meeting. They were like, we want to talk
• 1:13:57
  to you about just something that we've seen.
• 1:14:00
  I look at them across from the table and I'm like, the only
• 1:14:02
  thing you would want to talk about is that you found out that
• 1:14:05
  I was trans. They're like, yes.
• 1:14:07
  And I'm like, in my mind, preparing to be on defense, did
• 1:14:13
  not ever think that I would have to be confronting this in the
• 1:14:16
  church. It just wasn't in my radar just
• 1:14:17
  yet because I'm wanting to collide the world.
• 1:14:20
  I see God on me. You see God on me.
• 1:14:23
  You can see what's happening in my life, but it's all a journey.
• 1:14:26
  And I believe that everything that I went through has taught
• 1:14:29
  me so much in helping other people to realize someone's
• 1:14:33
  going to give their life to the Lord and still identify, but God
• 1:14:36
  is going to do what he needs to do in the process.
• 1:14:40
  They will come. They will come to.
• 1:14:42
  It is His word that they will come to know Him in completion.
• 1:14:45
  Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
• 1:14:47
  They will come, but they're going to have to struggle with
• 1:14:50
  their thoughts. I had to go through
• 1:14:52
  unforgiveness. I had to go through pride,
• 1:14:54
  gluttony, womanizing, being a workaholic.
• 1:14:57
  There were so many layers before the trans thing.
• 1:15:00
  I had to go through all of that. And so all of 2020, all of 2021
• 1:15:04
  now until August, that's what I'm going through.
• 1:15:07
  So when I'm sitting across from them, I, I say you, you know,
• 1:15:10
  this is about the only thing you want to talk about.
• 1:15:12
  They're like, yeah. And we believe that you're on an
• 1:15:15
  amazing journey. We can see the Lord in your
• 1:15:18
  life, but God's not done yet. Remain open to the Holy Spirit.
• 1:15:25
  And that was so hard to hear because those were the words
• 1:15:30
  that were said. But my mind was, there's no way.
• 1:15:32
  They just told me I'm going to de transition.
• 1:15:34
  There's no way. They just told me I need to
• 1:15:35
  become a girl before I can become a leader.
• 1:15:37
  There's no way. And I'm just making all these
• 1:15:39
  things up. I leave from that meeting, give
• 1:15:42
  him a hug and I go sit outside of his office in my car and I'm
• 1:15:45
  just crying for an hour. There's no way.
• 1:15:48
  They just told me, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm going to have
• 1:15:51
  to de transition and I'm freaking out.
• 1:15:54
  And the Holy Spirit, what did he say, Lord?
• 1:16:01
  He just said remain open to the Holy Spirit.
• 1:16:04
  I was like. Wow.
• 1:16:05
  And I drove off. It's like because they did not
• 1:16:08
  ask me to de transition, they asked me to remain open to the
• 1:16:12
  Holy Spirit. That was the most amazing thing
• 1:16:15
  in my life because as I continued on my process, I could
• 1:16:18
  not become a leader just yet. I was a volunteer still, which I
• 1:16:21
  was OK with. Come December, I was in a prayer
• 1:16:24
  group and in this prayer group I was in LA visiting the friends
• 1:16:29
  I'm staying with now. We went to a prayer night and
• 1:16:32
  my, I just, I've never done this motion.
• 1:16:34
  I've normally gone out to the side or I've like swayed the
• 1:16:38
  Lord. Just my hands went out and I
• 1:16:40
  felt that I literally felt surrender control, felt like I
• 1:16:45
  could hear the voice of God. This was my first time audibly
• 1:16:48
  hearing the voice of God. But my hands in the same moment,
• 1:16:51
  my heart is tingling and like my body is racing and I hear
• 1:16:55
  surrender control. I cussed and said, oh snap,
• 1:16:59
  three times because I knew that meant testosterone.
• 1:17:04
  That's when my conviction came straight from the Lord.
• 1:17:07
  There was no lead up. There was no gradual.
• 1:17:09
  There was no let's work our way there.
• 1:17:11
  The Lord Surrender control. I knew surrender control meant
• 1:17:17
  testosterone. I knew it meant the idea that I
• 1:17:20
  was a man trying to be with a woman.
• 1:17:22
  I knew it meant marriage in the way that I had seen it so far.
• 1:17:27
  When he said surrender, he knew exactly what he meant because I
• 1:17:32
  have had a few moments with the Lord that have been pivotal to
• 1:17:36
  leave the woman that I now thought I was supposed to be
• 1:17:38
  with. That was a Christian.
• 1:17:40
  And now surrender control. Wow.
• 1:17:43
  The next day, that was on a Sunday, was December 19th.
• 1:17:47
  The next day was my shot day. It was also the same weekend I
• 1:17:51
  was celebrating six years on testosterone.
• 1:17:54
  I've never done another shot since then.
• 1:17:57
  Cold Turkey. Cold Turkey.
• 1:17:59
  We don't advise anybody here to just cut cold Turkey, but if the
• 1:18:01
  Lord is telling you, obey the Lord.
• 1:18:03
  You didn't show up for that appointment.
• 1:18:05
  Did not show up. I would do it on my SO.
• 1:18:08
  We had different type of appointments, so sometimes I'd
• 1:18:10
  go in, but this one was shopping and switch between my thighs or
• 1:18:14
  my butt and I just never did it again.
• 1:18:17
  I was actually recapping with a friend recently.
• 1:18:19
  She goes, I remember the vial you had for six months that had
• 1:18:23
  one shot left in it. And I remember you not doing it.
• 1:18:27
  And I was like, you remember that?
• 1:18:29
  She goes, yeah, because you had your sharps container and you
• 1:18:32
  were like, I want to throw it in there.
• 1:18:34
  I don't want to throw it in there.
• 1:18:35
  I want to throw it in. Then I'm like, wow, I forgot
• 1:18:37
  that that happened, you know. And so all of 2022, I'm now off
• 1:18:42
  of hormones, but I still look like the man because God said
• 1:18:45
  surrender control. He didn't say go shave your
• 1:18:47
  hair. So you're still wearing men's
• 1:18:49
  clothes? Men's haircut?
• 1:18:51
  How was? The beard, everything
• 1:18:53
  presenting. So did that start to fade?
• 1:18:56
  Was the was the more masculine features?
• 1:18:58
  Did they like the hair? Did that start to change at all?
• 1:19:01
  Any point or at this point your hormones are so used.
• 1:19:04
  To they've been used to it at this point.
• 1:19:05
  I'm six years on and so all of 2022 I was off of hormones, but
• 1:19:10
  my beard still grew. I'd shave it down to A1 or like
• 1:19:13
  trimmers or just do like the goatee and then grow back.
• 1:19:16
  Why? Because my body was so now used
• 1:19:18
  to this. The production was there.
• 1:19:20
  I still gave myself haircuts at this point.
• 1:19:23
  I built a mobile Barber shop and so I'd sit in the shop all the
• 1:19:27
  time. I'd cut, do self cuts in the
• 1:19:29
  mirror and two. And so in February of 2022 I
• 1:19:34
  went to a young adult conference and at this young adult
• 1:19:38
  conference was the first time I ever heard anything LGBT related
• 1:19:41
  in a church. So mind you, nobody knows.
• 1:19:44
  I stopped, not even the pastor. But had I not listened to what
• 1:19:47
  the Holy Spirit said, which was remain open in August, I would
• 1:19:50
  have never received what the Lord said in December.
• 1:19:52
  You received Jesus into your heart.
• 1:19:54
  At how many years? At this point, it's been two or
• 1:19:56
  three years. At this point was like would
• 1:20:00
  have been two years. And had you been baptized?
• 1:20:03
  I had by that first church, the pastor felt that he was like, I
• 1:20:07
  feel God telling me I need to be the one to baptize you.
• 1:20:10
  I had no idea my you. Were baptized, received Jesus,
• 1:20:13
  you're going to church. You had never heard transgender,
• 1:20:16
  homosexuality, sexuality, marriage.
• 1:20:19
  It never been preached about, not ever at the church after two
• 1:20:22
  years of church. After two years, I've never.
• 1:20:24
  And so you're thinking you could be trans and Christian, of
• 1:20:26
  course, because nobody. Called me out.
• 1:20:28
  Wow. It was not said and so we
• 1:20:30
  understand now. Here we are in 2025.
• 1:20:32
  Now we understand the shake and why we need to speak on it.
• 1:20:35
  When's conviction going to come if nobody says anything?
• 1:20:37
  Because I was going. To come, no one's going to say
• 1:20:39
  anything. Wow.
• 1:20:40
  No one's going to speak up, no one's going to say anything
• 1:20:42
  because everyone's so scared. But it's like, when is someone
• 1:20:44
  going to get called out? Because the second I'm in this
• 1:20:46
  conference, Change movement, very, very pivotal shout out to
• 1:20:49
  you. Change Movements out of Bethel
• 1:20:51
  Church. They were at, which is in
• 1:20:53
  Redding, CA. They were at this event and the
• 1:20:56
  team was speaking Ken Williams. Ken was speaking Jessica Owens
• 1:21:03
  and yeah, and Amy, I forgot her last name.
• 1:21:06
  They were speaking. And as they were speaking, there
• 1:21:10
  is another woman named Kathy Grace Duncan, and she's an
• 1:21:12
  overcomer as well. She's a what?
• 1:21:14
  Is an overcomer. That is the terminology that
• 1:21:17
  they had picked up in the last five to seven years because it
• 1:21:20
  used to be considered ex gay ministries and that was not so
• 1:21:23
  inclusive and people kind of received it in the wrong way.
• 1:21:27
  So then within the last seven years they have taken on the
• 1:21:30
  term overcomer. So as ID transition and met
• 1:21:33
  people, that's the term that's kind of said within our realm,
• 1:21:36
  overcomers overcoming this, overcoming that, overcoming sin.
• 1:21:39
  We're not ex gays. We don't go from being a lesbian
• 1:21:42
  to being straight. We overcome the sin that we were
• 1:21:44
  in no matter what that is. And I think it's also inclusive
• 1:21:47
  to the trans community, those D transitioners like myself.
• 1:21:51
  I don't label myself AD transitioner.
• 1:21:53
  That's just a part of my process.
• 1:21:54
  I have D transitioned and so. Because your identity is a
• 1:21:57
  daughter of. God, exactly.
• 1:21:59
  And so if I separate from that, I'm a woman who has had a crazy,
• 1:22:03
  crazy experience in my 20s. And that's how I could say that
• 1:22:06
  I own that now. And in this moment, you know,
• 1:22:10
  it's always been December and February.
• 1:22:11
  So it's just kind of been pivotal for my life.
• 1:22:13
  And so December I surrender. February.
• 1:22:16
  I hear it at this conference. And they're just talking
• 1:22:19
  honestly. Kathy Grace Duncan is the
• 1:22:21
  representative specific to being a detransitioner.
• 1:22:24
  I was crying at this conference. I'm in the middle kind of
• 1:22:29
  towards the back and I'm like. You came for me.
• 1:22:32
  Oh my gosh. Like I've never heard this and I
• 1:22:35
  finally like what happened when I attempted suicide and then
• 1:22:38
  found the gospel. It's like OK now I'm off.
• 1:22:40
  Didn't know what to do for two months.
• 1:22:42
  So here I hear them speaking at the end.
• 1:22:44
  I'm a person who goes up to the speakers.
• 1:22:46
  So at the end I go up to her or to the entire team.
• 1:22:49
  But Ken was the name of the man who led me in the salvation
• 1:22:52
  prayer. Amy was the lady who was
• 1:22:54
  speaking, but that was my mom's name and Jessica was my quote UN
• 1:22:57
  quote dead name dead name at the time.
• 1:22:59
  So Ken, Amy and Jessica were speaking as well as Kathy Grace
• 1:23:02
  and I was like, God, you just, I went up to then I said you guys
• 1:23:05
  came from me. When Ken tells the story, he
• 1:23:08
  said his assistant went up to him and was like, this woman
• 1:23:11
  wants to talk to you. They knew you were a woman.
• 1:23:13
  Well, I said I was a person who's living as a trans.
• 1:23:16
  And so they went and told him. And so when he tells the story,
• 1:23:19
  he's like, they said this woman over there and you look like a
• 1:23:22
  man. And I did not know.
• 1:23:23
  So every year we go to this conference still and we take
• 1:23:25
  pictures every single year of just like, wow, we cannot
• 1:23:28
  believe what has happened because I have a full beard
• 1:23:30
  still. I'm, I have a bald fade at this
• 1:23:32
  point. Like nowhere would you have
• 1:23:34
  guessed this. I'm in a suit, you know what I
• 1:23:36
  mean? Like they would have.
• 1:23:37
  And I'm just weeping and I'm weeping and I'm like, I didn't
• 1:23:40
  know what to do. I've now been off of hormones.
• 1:23:43
  Where am I supposed to go with this?
• 1:23:44
  Ken gives me his book and his book is called The Journey Out.
• 1:23:48
  And it's a beautiful story of his life.
• 1:23:50
  And at the end of each chapter is like an application and it
• 1:23:53
  challenges you. And so I read it all of 2022.
• 1:23:57
  So I'm off of hormones. I now have this book to guide
• 1:24:00
  me, but I still look like a man because God didn't say like.
• 1:24:05
  Cut your hair, grow I. Didn't say that like it was me,
• 1:24:10
  understand, You know what I'm saying?
• 1:24:11
  That would have been so awkward for me.
• 1:24:13
  I didn't tell anybody. I just was off.
• 1:24:16
  And my best friends that I live, that I'm staying with now here
• 1:24:18
  in LA, they were the only ones to know that was it.
• 1:24:22
  Like, I didn't tell anybody. I now have moved in with some of
• 1:24:27
  the people from the church, and we all live together.
• 1:24:29
  So we're kind of like in a young adult house.
• 1:24:30
  They're the only other people to know, but they didn't know how
• 1:24:33
  to help necessarily because they are like, you're listening to
• 1:24:35
  the Lord. Keep listening to the Lord.
• 1:24:38
  I'm like, OK, God. And in this book, it's breaking
• 1:24:41
  down. Like Ken does a really good job
• 1:24:43
  of talking about his story. And then it's like, well, where
• 1:24:46
  did that begin for you? And now here I am.
• 1:24:49
  Everything I shared to you, I realized from this book, I did
• 1:24:52
  not go through that entire process thinking, OK, I did this
• 1:24:54
  because of this. I did this because of I just
• 1:24:56
  kept going and going and going and going and going and going
• 1:25:00
  until I'm reading this book reflecting on everything I did.
• 1:25:04
  It's like you had a new lens for your life.
• 1:25:06
  Like a whole new I'm looking at the little trauma that happened
• 1:25:10
  from 10 to 14 or little girl trauma.
• 1:25:12
  I'm looking at what happened with the girl experience because
• 1:25:15
  he talks about his first experience.
• 1:25:18
  He but he uses this word on Oh my God, unwanted.
• 1:25:23
  He says unwanted, same sex attraction unwanted.
• 1:25:26
  That part I couldn't connect to because my body was responding.
• 1:25:29
  So I thought I did want this. So then I was going through this
• 1:25:32
  mental thing of did I not really want it?
• 1:25:35
  And it had it challenged me because my body's responding.
• 1:25:39
  So I think it's what I want, but is it really what I want?
• 1:25:43
  And then it makes me think about that experience when I was 17
• 1:25:45
  when I thought a boy was cute and I suppressed the thought.
• 1:25:47
  I'm like, gosh, what did I really want?
• 1:25:49
  What was I scared of? And then that's when I come to
• 1:25:52
  realize the societal pressures. That's when I come to realize
• 1:25:55
  bisexual wasn't being received well.
• 1:25:58
  And I just walked down this whole journey, all of 2022, Lila
• 1:26:01
  single, finally, not in any relationship, not trying to get
• 1:26:06
  anybody to be my wife, not trying to do any of this.
• 1:26:09
  I'm off of hormones. And now I'm just trying to
• 1:26:11
  figure out what God wants from me wholeheartedly his committed
• 1:26:16
  to this journey. And by the end of this by
• 1:26:20
  December, that same celebratory would have been seven years is
• 1:26:24
  what we I had. It's called a maniversary is
• 1:26:27
  what we would call it. And this is the weekend, the
• 1:26:30
  same weekend that's been pivotal, 2022, I throw It's a
• 1:26:34
  girl party. I invited for yourself, for
• 1:26:37
  myself, it's a girl because it was supposed to be a
• 1:26:39
  maniversary. And I invite the pastors of the
• 1:26:41
  church that knew I invited. Like they knew that I was on a
• 1:26:46
  journey. They knew I was trans.
• 1:26:47
  They did not know that I was going to throw It's a girl
• 1:26:49
  party. They just knew that I was trans.
• 1:26:50
  Where did you get the idea for It's a Girl Party?
• 1:26:52
  I would just say the Lord because I have no idea.
• 1:26:56
  I have no idea. I'm just like, OK, I'm ready.
• 1:26:59
  So I'm going through this journey.
• 1:27:01
  I'm like on this process and like, OK, Lord, like here I am
• 1:27:04
  with you. And come December, I wanted like
• 1:27:07
  I'm starting to have conviction. I should say that right before
• 1:27:10
  that party, like maybe a month or so, I was starting to have
• 1:27:14
  conviction because I'm presenting as a man to
• 1:27:17
  everybody. But at the house with the young
• 1:27:20
  adults, I'm in leggings. I'm like an oversized shirt,
• 1:27:23
  like I'm trying to work through like just little things.
• 1:27:26
  And so I started to have this like really weird feeling of
• 1:27:28
  living a double life. You know, I'm trimming my, I'm
• 1:27:31
  shaving my face completely for the month of December because
• 1:27:34
  this is at the end of December for the month.
• 1:27:36
  I'm like shaving all the way down.
• 1:27:38
  I'm like, Oh my gosh, I went and got my eyebrows done because
• 1:27:40
  they were super thick and I was going to get my face waxed, but
• 1:27:44
  then I couldn't. So I got my like face plucked
• 1:27:47
  for three hours picking, picking it out and, you know, just
• 1:27:51
  trying to work through just some of the things like, OK, now that
• 1:27:54
  I'm going to like I'm ready to do this, how do I do this?
• 1:27:57
  And I'm just working with that, doing it at the house.
• 1:27:59
  Come December, I throw the end of December, I throw this party.
• 1:28:03
  The pastors are there, the leaders that have been alongside
• 1:28:05
  me. My mom is there, my little
• 1:28:07
  sister's there. The friends that I live with,
• 1:28:10
  they're my best friends. They came out from LA to come
• 1:28:12
  visit. And the whole house, I have
• 1:28:15
  maybe 20-3 people in. In our living room we set up two
• 1:28:19
  really long tables. I had everything pink and I
• 1:28:23
  dressed like a girl. I had this oversized button down
• 1:28:28
  shirt with some leggings, my hair.
• 1:28:29
  I did my makeup for the very first time and it looked very
• 1:28:34
  very rough. But I was exploring and I told
• 1:28:37
  them, hey everyone, you don't know this.
• 1:28:41
  I have been off of hormones for one year already.
• 1:28:44
  Today I celebrate one year off of hormones, and I know none of
• 1:28:48
  you knew that because I still presented this way, but I'm
• 1:28:52
  ready to be Jessica. I don't know what that's going
• 1:28:56
  to look like. I have no idea how we're going
• 1:28:58
  to tell the church, Pastor Hector.
• 1:28:59
  I have no idea how we're going to do this.
• 1:29:01
  But I believe I'm now ready to be Jessica.
• 1:29:07
  I understand how it happened. I understand how I believe the
• 1:29:11
  lies, and I understand. Why I ran away from being
• 1:29:14
  Jessica. Why I put on this mask and I am
• 1:29:18
  just ready to figure this out. Pastor, I trust you in your
• 1:29:23
  timing when you want to tell everybody.
• 1:29:25
  I will do whatever we have to do to walk through this together
• 1:29:29
  because I understand this is bigger than just me.
• 1:29:32
  But I've spent all year figuring this out and now I understand
• 1:29:38
  that God did not make a mistake with me.
• 1:29:41
  And God was with me. Even when I got hurt as a little
• 1:29:46
  girl, even when I got confused, even when I ran away, even when
• 1:29:51
  I decided to put this mask on, God never left me.
• 1:29:55
  And ever since 2020, when I received Him into my heart, we
• 1:29:59
  have been on a journey. I thank all of you for loving
• 1:30:03
  me. I thank all of you for being
• 1:30:05
  here. And I hope we can continue on
• 1:30:08
  the journey together. And we hugged all of us and
• 1:30:12
  cried and we had fun. And when we left from the pastor
• 1:30:19
  was like, I'm going to pray about it.
• 1:30:21
  And within two weeks, it was supposed to be the end of
• 1:30:23
  January of 2023. He told me he saw a week later
• 1:30:28
  with a week or two weeks. Later he goes, I think it should
• 1:30:31
  be January 15th, Like whenever, whenever.
• 1:30:35
  When you tell the church. Yes, he I was like whenever you
• 1:30:38
  feel in it, he goes. It was, he's like, I think it's
• 1:30:40
  going to be January 30th. Then he calls me, he goes
• 1:30:42
  January 15th and I'm like January 15th.
• 1:30:45
  I think it's like 9 days away. OK.
• 1:30:48
  And the videos online of me telling the church and I stand
• 1:30:52
  before everyone, Lila and I say I stand before you, formerly
• 1:30:56
  known as Zeidan. I pray you have the grace to
• 1:30:59
  hear what I'm going to going to say.
• 1:31:00
  Glory to God for what has happened.
• 1:31:04
  And I take a step back and I step forward and almost like I
• 1:31:07
  stand before you as Jessica. I was a little girl that was
• 1:31:12
  hurt, a little girl that ran away from her problems, a little
• 1:31:17
  girl that just escaped everything.
• 1:31:19
  I created this identity at 21 with no counsel.
• 1:31:23
  I've been on this journey by myself for the last three years.
• 1:31:27
  I've been following the Lord and I've been here the last year and
• 1:31:31
  a half at Thrive. And I've been in the front row
• 1:31:34
  understanding that Jesus died from my sins too, that His blood
• 1:31:41
  covers me and all of my mistakes.
• 1:31:46
  And I pray there's grace on all of you as we move forward.
• 1:31:50
  I pray there's grace in in you. And I thank you for your
• 1:31:53
  kindness when you didn't even know what I was going through.
• 1:31:57
  Moving forward. I'd like to go by Jessica, but
• 1:32:00
  you can call me Jess. I'd like to move forward with
• 1:32:03
  she, her pronouns. And it's OK if it's a struggle
• 1:32:06
  for all of us. We're all on this together as we
• 1:32:10
  figure this out. I know that I'm declaring my
• 1:32:13
  identity right now and I stand in that.
• 1:32:18
  And Lila, I had the most amazing standing ovation, full of tears,
• 1:32:24
  cheering and rejoicing and love and support and kindness and.
• 1:32:30
  Lines of people wanting to hug me because they had no idea.
• 1:32:35
  All of 23 and 24, I've must have gotten over $1000 worth of free
• 1:32:41
  clothes from these women in the church that have taken me
• 1:32:44
  shopping, that have spent time with me.
• 1:32:48
  You know when they say go take someone out to lunch?
• 1:32:50
  These women sat with me, took me to lunch, heard my story, built
• 1:32:56
  me up. They became Mamas and grandmamas
• 1:32:59
  because it's still rough with my mom at that point.
• 1:33:02
  And so these women filled in. This woman loved on me,
• 1:33:06
  encouraged me and to this day still do that.
• 1:33:10
  Is there a video, Jessica, of the of that you said there?
• 1:33:13
  Yes, yes. So I pray to God right now in
• 1:33:16
  front of all of you that God's grace for this place.
• 1:33:21
  So if you see me and you call me Jess or you slip up and say I
• 1:33:24
  hate it, that's OK. Because I know that I'm obeyed.
• 1:33:28
  By standing in front of you and declaring my full identity back.
• 1:33:33
  So thank you all. Praise God.
• 1:34:04
  Praise God. So this was two years ago now.
• 1:34:08
  That was. Going a little over to no.
• 1:34:10
  Yeah, a little over two years ago, August 2023.
• 1:34:15
  January 2020. 3 Then you posted it.
• 1:34:17
  Sorry, this was this is going on three years ago.
• 1:34:19
  Yes, and December will in two months will be 4 years off of
• 1:34:24
  hormones. Wow, wow.
• 1:34:28
  Four years. It's crazy to think I was on it
• 1:34:30
  for six, identified for seven and now off for four.
• 1:34:33
  Like time is just such an interesting concept.
• 1:34:36
  First of all, I just want to thank you again for sharing and
• 1:34:39
  for being so open. I think it is deeply inspiring
• 1:34:43
  and illuminating for people because there's many, many
• 1:34:47
  people in your shoes right now who are transitioning, who
• 1:34:50
  transitioned, who are considering detransition, and
• 1:34:54
  then even more broadly, just people on their walk with God
• 1:34:57
  trying to trying to discover what God says about our
• 1:35:00
  identity. Absolutely.
• 1:35:02
  How has it been physically recovering from T, from being on
• 1:35:07
  testosterone now, from where you are then to where you are today?
• 1:35:11
  How did you go through the process of rediscovering
• 1:35:14
  yourself as Jessica and your body as the the the female body
• 1:35:18
  that God gave you? Absolutely.
• 1:35:20
  This is my favorite part about the story.
• 1:35:22
  So that's January of 2023. And come February, we had this
• 1:35:28
  guest speaker in the church and her name was Heidi Matzke.
• 1:35:32
  And she's the main leader. And I don't know her official
• 1:35:36
  position over at Alternative Pregnancy Center.
• 1:35:40
  And this pregnancy center, they came in, she came in and she was
• 1:35:45
  talking about, you know, pro-life and she's talking about
• 1:35:48
  womanhood. And she says we are pro gospel,
• 1:35:52
  pro woman and pro-life. She said we offer free services
• 1:35:55
  to women in all stages of life. And we wait.
• 1:35:59
  This is what we stand for. And as I'm hearing her, as I've
• 1:36:03
  said before, I'm a person to go up to the speaker.
• 1:36:05
  I go up to her and I was like, I'm a woman.
• 1:36:08
  Mind you, I still have my shadow because it just just started
• 1:36:11
  shaving, you know, even though I was off for a year, I have my
• 1:36:15
  shadow. My hair is very, very short
• 1:36:16
  still, not even not even wisps yet.
• 1:36:19
  It's just a little comb over and I'm wearing heels because the
• 1:36:23
  church hall knows now, right. So I still look like if someone
• 1:36:28
  were to look at me like a man trying to be a woman, like if
• 1:36:30
  you were to look on the outward, not knowing my story.
• 1:36:33
  And so I went up to her and was like, would you help a woman
• 1:36:36
  like me? When she tells the story, it's
• 1:36:39
  so beautiful because the Lord convicts her.
• 1:36:41
  But in her looking at me, she was like, yeah, what, what,
• 1:36:45
  what? What kind of help could I give
• 1:36:47
  you? Because she think she's
• 1:36:49
  thinking. You're a man.
• 1:36:51
  Exactly. Now she's thinking I'm a man
• 1:36:52
  trying to be a woman and so she's kind of confused on how
• 1:36:56
  she could help me and I I get to tell her just a 10 second
• 1:36:59
  synopsis of everything. It just shared with you, Lila.
• 1:37:02
  I was like, I was born a woman. I've now been off of hormones
• 1:37:05
  one year and I have not received help because I have not
• 1:37:10
  addressed this area. And Kaiser is pro, you know, the
• 1:37:15
  gender movement. I don't know how to know about
• 1:37:18
  my body. I know I did her wrong by
• 1:37:20
  abruptly stopping, but now I don't know anything, Heidi.
• 1:37:23
  I don't know anything about my body.
• 1:37:26
  I have had this top surgery, a double mastectomy, free nipple
• 1:37:28
  regraft. Now what do I do?
• 1:37:30
  And your cycle's not back at this point.
• 1:37:32
  It is back literally had just started back like a couple
• 1:37:37
  actually not just I shouldn't I should be honest it started one
• 1:37:41
  month before I surrender testosterone.
• 1:37:44
  I believe that was the Lord knowing what I was about to do
• 1:37:47
  just. Cycle came back while you were
• 1:37:48
  on. Testosterone exactly that's.
• 1:37:50
  Part of the when when God was telling you to surrender.
• 1:37:52
  Wildest. Yes, wow, Wildest.
• 1:37:55
  Because that should not have happened.
• 1:37:57
  Because my testosterone should have been like this and my I
• 1:37:59
  should have been like this. Had you been off your had you
• 1:38:03
  been off your period for years at that point?
• 1:38:05
  Years. So how many years were you
• 1:38:07
  without a period? Oh my gosh.
• 1:38:08
  So my period stopped within six months, so 2016 all the way
• 1:38:14
  until I surrendered December 21, my period came back like end of
• 1:38:18
  October, beginning of November. So that was over 4 years that I
• 1:38:23
  had not had a period. But you couldn't go back to
• 1:38:25
  Kaiser, Jessica, because they were not offering detransitious
• 1:38:28
  care. That's not like a thing that
• 1:38:30
  they offer in Kaiser. You can't go and say I want to
• 1:38:32
  walk away. It's like, Are you sure?
• 1:38:33
  Do you need mental health help? Like, do you need to walk
• 1:38:37
  through this mental health process?
• 1:38:38
  It's like, no, I regret what I did.
• 1:38:40
  Like, how so? The help was just not there.
• 1:38:43
  So here is a woman representing women offering free healthcare.
• 1:38:48
  So I now aged, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:38:51
  And it was a whole narrative of that.
• 1:38:52
  It's so crazy because we, you know, we have Chloe Cole on the
• 1:38:55
  show. You were talking about her
• 1:38:56
  earlier and she was a Kaiser double mastectomy at age 15.
• 1:39:00
  And you know, now she's obviously very pro-life, pro
• 1:39:03
  woman, all of this beautiful work that she's doing that
• 1:39:06
  you're doing. But it's Planned Parenthood.
• 1:39:08
  It's not only killing babies and contracepting women and all of
• 1:39:12
  these, you know, long, long acting contraceptives.
• 1:39:14
  And you know, they're promoting all of this sterilization, but
• 1:39:17
  then they're also providing cross sex hormones.
• 1:39:20
  It's like their new cash cow is transitioning in the pro-life
• 1:39:24
  world, is trying to save babies, help women and their bodies, and
• 1:39:29
  it's a pro-life center who ends up helping you with your D
• 1:39:31
  transition. Lately, I never would have
• 1:39:33
  guessed that considering at the time of being in the community,
• 1:39:36
  we were heavily pushing for, you know, the like democratic views,
• 1:39:43
  thinking all these things are good for us, thinking, you know,
• 1:39:46
  you would like, oh, it's their body, they can do what they
• 1:39:48
  want. Now I'm put in a situation of
• 1:39:50
  who's going to help me when I did what I wanted to my body and
• 1:39:53
  now I scarred it. And it was a pro lifer.
• 1:39:56
  And it was a pro-life pregnancy center and.
• 1:39:58
  So what did they do to help you? It was beautiful.
• 1:40:01
  I still receive services from them now, so Heidi got me in
• 1:40:05
  within two weeks. She could have saw me sooner.
• 1:40:08
  I was busy. So let me just disclose that
• 1:40:10
  they are very, very open. But I went and they were able to
• 1:40:14
  check my hormone levels to tell me that I had a regular cyst,
• 1:40:18
  like I had regular normal range of estrogen and low
• 1:40:21
  testosterone. They were able to teach me a lot
• 1:40:23
  about what I did to my body. They were teaching me about the
• 1:40:27
  risks that I have with breastfeeding if I'm able to
• 1:40:30
  hold this milk. Mind you, these studies are
• 1:40:33
  still being worked out, so they are doing the best that they
• 1:40:35
  can. They were able to teach me about
• 1:40:38
  my period and my menstrual cycle, you know, my menstrual
• 1:40:40
  cycle, to teach me about what how that's regular, how to
• 1:40:44
  regulate that, what to look for if there's any clotting, if
• 1:40:48
  there's any discharge, which are things that you would learn in
• 1:40:50
  7th grade. But when do you learn it again?
• 1:40:53
  You learn it in that sexual class in 7th grade, we learned
• 1:40:56
  health. But after you learn what your
• 1:40:58
  period is, when do you learn it? When do you learn in detail?
• 1:41:02
  Think. There's just a low, low level of
• 1:41:05
  appreciation for our fertility completely and for the fertility
• 1:41:09
  being that 5th or that 6th vital sign and understanding how it
• 1:41:12
  interacts holistically with the rest of our bodily systems.
• 1:41:14
  And so women are just not as clued in about our own bodies,
• 1:41:18
  and that's such a disservice. And what your hormones do, what
• 1:41:21
  your hormones mean. And, you know, they taught me
• 1:41:24
  even down to the basic, OK, have you ever noticed that you've got
• 1:41:27
  a little bit more sensitive right before your menstrual?
• 1:41:30
  Have you ever paid attention to a little bit more frustration or
• 1:41:32
  anger, which in the end, we all say, oh, I become, you know,
• 1:41:37
  have an attitude right before, but that's not validating.
• 1:41:39
  If you pay attention to the science ways to navigate this,
• 1:41:42
  know that that's because of your menstrual cycle.
• 1:41:45
  And when you actually pay attention, you're more aware of
• 1:41:48
  why your body's going through this and the mood swings.
• 1:41:50
  And it's not actual mood swings, it's your body going through the
• 1:41:53
  hormonal changes for that month, how long it lasts.
• 1:41:57
  So they were teaching me down to the basics of being a woman and
• 1:42:00
  what was happening to my body, which was so beautiful.
• 1:42:04
  And so I saw Doctor Anna and she was the one who's like
• 1:42:09
  everything, like through several visits and seeing them over the
• 1:42:12
  months, she's like, everything is on track.
• 1:42:15
  That if you were to get pregnant tomorrow, you would be able to
• 1:42:19
  carry a baby because I did not go through with those
• 1:42:22
  hysterectomies. As I mentioned, I did not do
• 1:42:24
  anything to my body. My estrogen levels are normal,
• 1:42:27
  my menstrual cycle is regular. So those things I would never
• 1:42:31
  have known contributed towards knowing if you're viable for
• 1:42:35
  pregnancy. Was that a big thing for you as
• 1:42:38
  you're D transitioning? Did you become really focused on
• 1:42:42
  motherhood? Like this is something that I
• 1:42:43
  didn't realize that I even wanted.
• 1:42:46
  I had sort of given it up. I'd written it off because I'm a
• 1:42:47
  man. But no, I am a woman and I do
• 1:42:50
  deeply desire mother motherhood. Absolutely.
• 1:42:53
  And it was, you know, having all of 2022 off of hormones, but
• 1:42:57
  looking like a man and understanding why I did what I
• 1:43:00
  did. I understand why I was turned
• 1:43:02
  off from motherhood because I had to raise the siblings that
• 1:43:06
  what I mean mixed with everything else.
• 1:43:08
  But that was like the biggest part.
• 1:43:09
  I didn't want to be a mom because I was already doing all
• 1:43:12
  those things. I've already given up my most of
• 1:43:13
  my life. For them Saw your mom struggle.
• 1:43:15
  A lot. Oh, completely.
• 1:43:16
  That was a huge factor. Of motherhood was she was.
• 1:43:19
  She's a tough lady. She's very, very.
• 1:43:21
  Tough, she's a good lady. She loved you guys as much as
• 1:43:23
  she could and but that that is a tough thing too when you're when
• 1:43:27
  you're raised that way to say, oh, motherhood is this beautiful
• 1:43:30
  gift when you see it come with so much trauma and challenges
• 1:43:34
  and not having the support that she needed.
• 1:43:37
  And so that there was that fear of like she's now been on her
• 1:43:40
  own. What if I end up being left, OK,
• 1:43:43
  if I, if I get married, will that be different for me?
• 1:43:46
  So 2022 I was asking all those or 2023 I was asking all those
• 1:43:49
  kinds of questions. But now it was my second year
• 1:43:52
  off of hormones. And so I was more sensitive.
• 1:43:56
  I was more in tuned with what the things that were happening
• 1:44:00
  because I got to own this femininity and I now had help on
• 1:44:04
  this femininity and understanding what a woman is
• 1:44:07
  and the insult that people think being a woman is just being able
• 1:44:10
  to wear a dress. That's not what womanhood is
• 1:44:13
  about. I learned biblical context of
• 1:44:15
  womanhood and masculinity. What is that?
• 1:44:18
  How do you see today? How do you see masculinity
• 1:44:22
  versus femininity from a biblical view?
• 1:44:25
  For for femininity, I understanding the nurturing
• 1:44:30
  isn't a bad thing. Being sensitive is not a bad
• 1:44:34
  thing, listening being a homemaker is not a bad thing.
• 1:44:39
  The things that my mom balance between both.
• 1:44:42
  I saw as like she was weak. Now that I see this as a woman,
• 1:44:47
  a woman being home to tend to her family, to listen to her
• 1:44:51
  kids, to be patient, to be kind, to be tender, to be sensitive,
• 1:44:57
  things that I never thought that like they were deep in me, but
• 1:45:01
  did I think that they were aligned with womanhood?
• 1:45:03
  No. Yep.
• 1:45:04
  I just thought that was just some parts of me.
• 1:45:07
  I did not know womanhood. And you probably had to have a
• 1:45:09
  redeeming view of masculinity. Because you've.
• 1:45:11
  Been hurt so much, So what? And then how did you come to see
• 1:45:14
  what is mask true masculinity? Yeah, being that provider isn't
• 1:45:19
  just OK. I'm a provider and a protector
• 1:45:23
  meeting. I just bring money to the table
• 1:45:24
  and I'm down to fight for my family.
• 1:45:26
  There's so much more in being a provider and being a listener to
• 1:45:31
  the different sense. I didn't grow up with the dad.
• 1:45:34
  There was no male presence in my home.
• 1:45:36
  My mom would say I'm your, I'm your mom and your dad.
• 1:45:39
  I handled everything around here.
• 1:45:41
  My mom had this mixture of more hardness than softness, but she
• 1:45:46
  tried to do both. She did try her best, but I
• 1:45:49
  understand why she had that protector provider mentality
• 1:45:52
  because she had to do those things for all of us.
• 1:45:55
  I do understand she wanted to do the softness, but it goes back
• 1:45:58
  to trauma and pain and she grew up without parents as well.
• 1:46:02
  And so it's just right goes down.
• 1:46:04
  But for masculinity, there was that perfect protector
• 1:46:08
  mentality, the provider mentality, that discipline that
• 1:46:11
  is necessary coming from that father perspective, from that
• 1:46:15
  masculine perspective, to be able to be stern and be
• 1:46:18
  effective, to be able to have self-control, to be able to
• 1:46:24
  manage even though you have a mix of emotions, to be able to
• 1:46:28
  manage and navigate your family and the situation that's in
• 1:46:31
  front of you. In the end, I was not masculine.
• 1:46:35
  I was off the wall with my emotion.
• 1:46:37
  I was off the wall with my anger.
• 1:46:39
  I was very, very prideful. I made decisions for myself and
• 1:46:43
  I did not consider my wife at certain times.
• 1:46:45
  In the end, I was not masculine. I looked tough, that's about it.
• 1:46:51
  I was not tough. I was a real arrogant person who
• 1:46:55
  was very, very prideful and a womanizer.
• 1:46:58
  I picked up these negative characteristics thinking that's
• 1:47:00
  what being a man is. Just because you have many
• 1:47:02
  girlfriends does not make you a man.
• 1:47:05
  Just because you have a nice car does not make you a man.
• 1:47:08
  Just because you're hairy or have a beard, that does not make
• 1:47:11
  you a man. Even if you had kids and did not
• 1:47:13
  tend to them, that doesn't make you a man.
• 1:47:15
  Being a man is being responsible, being accountable,
• 1:47:19
  and being present. And I just did not have that.
• 1:47:21
  So I made my own version of it. Wow.
• 1:47:24
  Now that you are looking back on this and you are still on a
• 1:47:28
  journey, we're all on a journey of faith and and we're also on a
• 1:47:31
  journey of identity because I think identity is something that
• 1:47:34
  we need to, we have, but we need to be reaffirmed.
• 1:47:37
  And it's the metanoia, the renewal of our mind.
• 1:47:39
  You know, our relationship with God is not a static thing.
• 1:47:42
  It's a thing that's lived. And so we all have to do this
• 1:47:45
  again every day. But when in your journey now,
• 1:47:49
  what has been the most difficult thing about re identifying as
• 1:47:56
  the Jessica Rose that God gave you to your parents and you were
• 1:48:00
  named Jessica Rose and to the world as I am a woman are there
• 1:48:05
  is are there What have been the most difficult things have been
• 1:48:08
  there been surprising things for you?
• 1:48:10
  Yeah, I think the most difficult thing, Lila was in the beginning
• 1:48:15
  phase of 20, like all of 23. I'm now presenting as a woman
• 1:48:20
  and people having this concept thinking I'm a man trying to be
• 1:48:23
  a woman. I don't live in a very diverse
• 1:48:26
  city like you do here in Socal. Like I don't live in that area
• 1:48:31
  of seeing mixture of people. I personally live in a very kind
• 1:48:38
  of rigid area in Sacramento and people have these views where
• 1:48:43
  they're not really for transitioners.
• 1:48:45
  So and at the same breath, they're not for what they would
• 1:48:49
  think is a man trying to be a woman.
• 1:48:51
  They have no idea my story. So if I'm going into the liquor
• 1:48:54
  store, if I'm going to the gas station, if I'm going to the
• 1:48:57
  grocery store, Sir, Sir, full on looking like a woman.
• 1:49:00
  And they will say Sir, based off of my voice.
• 1:49:02
  So they think you're a they think you're a woman.
• 1:49:05
  They, excuse me, They think you're a man dressing as a woman
• 1:49:08
  and that that's probably her fault.
• 1:49:10
  Oh, now I own it. But that was the hardest thing
• 1:49:13
  Lila was am IA man trying to be a woman because I was breaking
• 1:49:17
  this idea that I know I'm a woman, but there's these
• 1:49:20
  characteristics. I'm still tall, still have big
• 1:49:22
  hands, still have big feet, like I'm still, you know, larger.
• 1:49:25
  And so I had to break this that that's not what makes me a man
• 1:49:30
  just because I'm bigger and all these other features.
• 1:49:32
  I had to understand that I'm a woman because God said I'm a
• 1:49:34
  woman. He created me a woman.
• 1:49:36
  I know what body parts I have. I am a woman.
• 1:49:39
  My voice is going to go through its journey, Lila.
• 1:49:42
  I have no clue how long it's going to take.
• 1:49:44
  I do know it is not as deep as it was.
• 1:49:47
  I do know that in 2023, I was at a prayer group with our friend
• 1:49:51
  Kim. Kim told me go to the altar.
• 1:49:53
  They were doing a healing prayer at the altar.
• 1:49:56
  She goes, go to the altar. I think she's like, don't you
• 1:49:59
  want healing for the things you've done?
• 1:50:00
  And I was like, you're right, I should do that.
• 1:50:03
  I go to the altar in October of 2023, Lila and I felt the
• 1:50:07
  physical healing of the Lord, and my Adam's apple went away.
• 1:50:12
  I felt the physical healing at the altar.
• 1:50:14
  It was out, it was protruding and it's not now, you know, And
• 1:50:18
  I can't believe that that happened.
• 1:50:20
  And then in from 2324 and 25, I felt the layers pull back on my
• 1:50:24
  voice. Only God knows why He has not
• 1:50:26
  given me such a soft voice just yet.
• 1:50:28
  He knows I would be calling everybody.
• 1:50:30
  He knows I would be on the phone all the time.
• 1:50:32
  I mean, you're, you're a living witness to him at work.
• 1:50:35
  And that's an amazing gift to get to be a witness to, you
• 1:50:42
  know, witness to your witness to watch it.
• 1:50:44
  Thank you. And I do know the Lord's at
• 1:50:46
  work. It's very exciting to see it and
• 1:50:49
  to know what God is, to know that he's at work and not know
• 1:50:51
  all the mysteries of what's to come.
• 1:50:53
  Completely, I think my favorite part about what what's happening
• 1:50:56
  or what surprises me is I was, you know, I had mentioned in the
• 1:51:00
  beginning like I had picked up smoking weed when I did
• 1:51:02
  everything. I'm at 65 days sober and once I
• 1:51:06
  stopped smoking weed, so I would smoke in the beginning for
• 1:51:08
  different reasons. As of the last couple years when
• 1:51:11
  I was smoking was I would get this harassment of what I'm
• 1:51:13
  telling you men, you know, people just being very, very
• 1:51:16
  rude. And at the end of the my day,
• 1:51:17
  I'd smoke and I'd be like, Oh my gosh, like God, you told me to
• 1:51:21
  do this. Like this is so frustrating.
• 1:51:23
  Why they keep calling me. He and I just could not get over
• 1:51:25
  this hump. Do I know he's with me?
• 1:51:27
  Do I know he's listening? Should I have turned to him?
• 1:51:30
  Absolutely. I'm very well aware.
• 1:51:32
  But it was what I needed at the at the end of my days of all
• 1:51:34
  this harassment, kind of like God, we just went through
• 1:51:37
  another day and someone did it again.
• 1:51:39
  And when people would call me he in that first two years and they
• 1:51:43
  would beat me up. Now I understand I'm a woman who
• 1:51:47
  has had an interesting journey in my 20s who fell into the
• 1:51:51
  lies. And now I've separated from that
• 1:51:54
  identity. Now those kinds of terms do not
• 1:51:58
  affect me. If we were to leave from here
• 1:52:00
  right now and someone was to say he, I would say she, my name is
• 1:52:04
  Jessica and I would correct and I would do it at that simple.
• 1:52:08
  If there was a moment in like this place, as I mentioned, the
• 1:52:10
  gas station, the store, anything to share my testimony.
• 1:52:13
  Yeah, but that's not the place for me to share it.
• 1:52:15
  In the middle as a line behind me trying to go get gas, trying
• 1:52:18
  to tell this worker in the front that I'm a woman.
• 1:52:20
  That's not my thing. I'm now separated from it.
• 1:52:23
  And I understand I've always been a woman, but I think having
• 1:52:26
  to break that of I've always been a man when I was never a
• 1:52:29
  man. I was never a man.
• 1:52:32
  I just looked like 1. I sound like one, but I am not a
• 1:52:36
  man and I have separated from it.
• 1:52:38
  So I think the most exciting thing that I've been in is this
• 1:52:40
  sobriety. And so once I stopped smoking, I
• 1:52:44
  stopped getting harassed and I was like, wow, God, OK.
• 1:52:47
  Had I known that I just needed to stop and I wouldn't have been
• 1:52:50
  so paranoid on these situations. On my sobriety journey now I
• 1:52:54
  have been getting hit on left and right.
• 1:52:56
  Lila, I would never have imagined that.
• 1:52:59
  Meaning you're getting male interest correct that you didn't
• 1:53:01
  expect before. Correct, because I'm now in this
• 1:53:04
  journey of like being intrigued by men, like allowing my brain
• 1:53:07
  to be like, look at someone and think that they're attractive
• 1:53:11
  because 17 year old me still is. Like, is it OK to think that?
• 1:53:14
  Is it weird to think that? But God's shifting that
• 1:53:16
  perspective so I know I'm on my journey towards finding my
• 1:53:19
  husband. And that's so beautiful, you
• 1:53:21
  know what I mean? What's your hope for the future?
• 1:53:24
  I cannot wait to meet someone, a good great man of God and serve
• 1:53:30
  the Lord together and build a family.
• 1:53:32
  Now that I know that I know that I know I can have kids and it's
• 1:53:37
  been confirmed and I've seen people be mothers and I have a
• 1:53:41
  different appreciation for my mother.
• 1:53:42
  I have a different appreciation for motherhood to carrying a
• 1:53:46
  baby that pregnancy center and standing for pro-life.
• 1:53:49
  My best friend works there and she's.
• 1:53:53
  Like Bella, right? Bella Girl and she stands for
• 1:53:58
  women who are in that indecisive stage and like helps them walk
• 1:54:03
  through understanding what they're actually doing and the
• 1:54:06
  gift that they actually get to have.
• 1:54:08
  So when I hear her tell me about women thinking about this, it
• 1:54:12
  makes me just so more appreciative of what I get to do
• 1:54:15
  and what I get to have and what soon to come before the Lord
• 1:54:19
  comes. Amen.
• 1:54:20
  I will pray for that for you, Jessica.
• 1:54:22
  Thank you so much. I've got to ask you and thank
• 1:54:24
  you so much for walking through your story with us and with our
• 1:54:29
  podcast community today. What is the message that you
• 1:54:32
  would give to other people who are still believing the LGBTQ
• 1:54:41
  narrative ideology that you can be born in the wrong body?
• 1:54:46
  And they think transitioning is something that's actually
• 1:54:49
  helping people. And they think you're maybe just
• 1:54:53
  a little crazy here because you got Jesus and yeah, this is a
• 1:54:56
  this is a kick you're on. But really you're, you know,
• 1:54:59
  people who struggle can find healing in transitioning because
• 1:55:04
  that's who they really are. What would you say?
• 1:55:07
  Well, I think it's really hard to separate God in the situation
• 1:55:11
  because I believe once you know why you were created, you were
• 1:55:16
  created because of he loved you because he thought about you and
• 1:55:20
  he, he knew you before you were in your mother's womb.
• 1:55:24
  And what God taught me was I don't have a baby right now, but
• 1:55:29
  God knows my baby before my baby's in my womb.
• 1:55:32
  God knows them. God knows them by name before I
• 1:55:35
  even know the name. And when that baby comes, God
• 1:55:38
  wouldn't get them together. Each and every person who is on
• 1:55:41
  this process, they were created. They didn't just happen.
• 1:55:46
  They may have trauma, their parents may not want them, they
• 1:55:50
  may have been through pain and hurt, but they were here for a
• 1:55:53
  reason. Have If they do not have an
• 1:55:56
  encounter with God, God is soon going to show them some
• 1:55:59
  miraculous signs. He's in everything.
• 1:56:03
  God's in their struggle. God's with them when they're
• 1:56:05
  sinning, God's with them when they're thinking about the next
• 1:56:08
  thing that they're going to do. God loves them in the middle of
• 1:56:10
  their confusion, and God's going to call them by name home, not
• 1:56:15
  the name that they're calling themselves.
• 1:56:17
  In my journey, I had to come and accept that I had a holy
• 1:56:21
  encounter with the Lord. Lila, when God told me Aiden is
• 1:56:26
  not in the book of life, I did not create him.
• 1:56:30
  You did. And when the Lord told me that,
• 1:56:34
  Lila, I could not argue that these people can believe what
• 1:56:39
  they're believing right now. But in Scripture it says every
• 1:56:42
  knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.
• 1:56:48
  Every person's on a journey. God's with them on all parts of
• 1:56:51
  that journey. But there is going to be a day
• 1:56:54
  that they will be awakened and God will look at them and say I
• 1:56:57
  love you. I've been here the entire time.
• 1:57:01
  Even people who are still in same sex relationships, even
• 1:57:04
  people who are in commitments with same sex, God is with them.
• 1:57:08
  In the middle of all that, all they have to do is stop and
• 1:57:12
  think about their Creator, open their hearts to their creator.
• 1:57:17
  God wants all of them to come home.
• 1:57:20
  And when they do start flooding our church, the church is to
• 1:57:23
  rise up and to love them. Not to judge them, not to
• 1:57:27
  condemn them, not to pick out the parts that they like and
• 1:57:30
  don't like. Just because you're a feminine
• 1:57:32
  lesbian and not a Butch lesbian, just because you're a masculine
• 1:57:35
  boy and not a femme boy, that's not for us to figure out.
• 1:57:38
  Our job is to love them. And if you don't know how to
• 1:57:42
  love, just open up the scriptures.
• 1:57:44
  First Corinthians 13 I was embraced by love, and when
• 1:57:48
  people embrace people, it allows a safe space for people to
• 1:57:51
  continue to do their journey. One of the things that they're
• 1:57:55
  seeking. What I was seeking was safety
• 1:57:58
  and security, something I didn't have at 10 and 14 when I was
• 1:58:02
  getting hurt. These people, young ages, Middle
• 1:58:06
  Ages, I'm now in my 30s, people in their 30s living this way.
• 1:58:09
  There's going to come a time where you're tired of hiding and
• 1:58:13
  tired of having this facade and this mask.
• 1:58:16
  It's an upkeep. We're not going to have access
• 1:58:19
  to hormones forever. You're not going to have access
• 1:58:21
  to transitioning forever. You're not going to have access
• 1:58:24
  to to, to surgeries forever. Those will all come to an end.
• 1:58:29
  And when it does, you will still have to face like I had to face
• 1:58:32
  14 year old me. Give that to the Lord and know
• 1:58:36
  that He is with you on the rest of your journey and He's worth
• 1:58:39
  serving. What do you think about churches
• 1:58:43
  that have group specifically for LGBTQ outreach?
• 1:58:48
  Because this is a debate I see where some people who identify
• 1:58:52
  as LGBTQ, they say I'm a gay Christian or I'm a, you know,
• 1:58:55
  you were at someone point saying I'm a trans Christian, right?
• 1:58:58
  And they say, well, the church to be inclusive because we want
• 1:59:01
  to love everyone and everyone to come to know the name of Jesus
• 1:59:04
  and, and walk with him. So we're going to have this
• 1:59:06
  LGBTQ ministry so that someone like a Jessica, formerly an
• 1:59:11
  Aiden will know to come. And then by being part of that
• 1:59:13
  ministry, she, you know, will eventually become Jessica again.
• 1:59:18
  Do you think that's a good strategy for churches?
• 1:59:20
  Or based on your experience, what do you think the posture of
• 1:59:23
  churches should be in terms of their outward even marketing the
• 1:59:27
  names of these groups? Yeah, I think I personally, I
• 1:59:30
  would agree with that. And I, I think I would agree
• 1:59:32
  with that because my church was a safe space for me to be aided
• 1:59:36
  and continue on my journey, on my personal walk with God.
• 1:59:40
  We didn't address the trans thing immediately.
• 1:59:43
  There was the brokenness. I had to reconcile with my mom
• 1:59:46
  first. I had to reconcile with myself.
• 1:59:49
  I had to reconcile with my siblings.
• 1:59:51
  So I believe that there genuinely is a journey if
• 1:59:55
  someone is in there. The question I often get asked
• 1:59:57
  is like, what do you do with the pronoun situation?
• 2:00:00
  If my pastor immediately looked at me and was like, Jessica, get
• 2:00:03
  it together, Jessica, you know, you have to de transitioning and
• 2:00:07
  become Jessica publicly. My pastor in my face respected
• 2:00:11
  me. That's one of the biggest fight
• 2:00:13
  that they have. But I can tell you this right
• 2:00:15
  now, my pastor in his prayer, prayed for Jessica in his
• 2:00:19
  prayer, prayed for who I really AM and that I will come to know
• 2:00:22
  her when I pray. That's how I pray as well.
• 2:00:26
  You will present in front of me right now as Adam.
• 2:00:29
  I will pray in front of you as Adam in my my prayer to the
• 2:00:33
  Lord, I will pray for Lila. I will pray for who you really
• 2:00:36
  are, your true identity. So I think meeting people where
• 2:00:40
  they're at. But it's interesting because
• 2:00:43
  your pastor didn't let you be in youth ministry, so there was
• 2:00:46
  certain. Becoming a leader, Correct?
• 2:00:49
  Correct. So serving and being and that.
• 2:00:51
  Hurt you at the time. It did hurt me, but he did not
• 2:00:54
  allow me to serve. He allowed me to like I could
• 2:00:57
  not lead other people. Yes, but you were welcome.
• 2:01:00
  You were welcome. Welcome.
• 2:01:01
  So there's a difference in that not leading and not being
• 2:01:04
  someone to use your voice in a magnitude in that way, when
• 2:01:07
  you're still on a journey. I can completely respect that
• 2:01:09
  serving and doing the volunteer work.
• 2:01:12
  I can completely. So having the group allows
• 2:01:15
  people to be met because they need to know the love of the
• 2:01:18
  Father. Once they know the love of the
• 2:01:20
  Father, they'll have that security to go on the rest of
• 2:01:22
  their journey. Everyone will come to know who
• 2:01:25
  they really are. We had Katie Copeland's on the
• 2:01:27
  show D transitioner as well, lovely woman.
• 2:01:30
  And she was sharing how she went to the church and they told her
• 2:01:33
  you can't go as you are not your former name, you are you.
• 2:01:39
  And they chat. They welcomed her, they let her
• 2:01:41
  come but they said you got to wear it.
• 2:01:43
  You can't, you can't keep requesting us to say something
• 2:01:48
  untrue about you because you're not a man.
• 2:01:50
  And so they did draw the hard line.
• 2:01:52
  So it's interesting because you're saying, well, sometimes
• 2:01:54
  the hard line is maybe not appropriate.
• 2:01:56
  I think for her, she was saying, I think it helped me wake up
• 2:01:59
  because I didn't have conviction yet.
• 2:02:01
  So this is, of course, the debate in the church right now
• 2:02:03
  is like, what's the right posture to help people?
• 2:02:06
  Because it's about helping people.
• 2:02:07
  It's about truth because you can't help someone by lying to
• 2:02:09
  them. And, you know, I've had other
• 2:02:11
  people say, well, using the LGBTQ label, those are false
• 2:02:14
  identities. So to say, yes, you are gay or
• 2:02:17
  yes, you are trans or yes, you are, that is not helping them.
• 2:02:21
  And I think cultural, you know, political, social posture to say
• 2:02:25
  these are real identities and we need to give them healthcare,
• 2:02:28
  that's transition surgeries or marriage for the people that
• 2:02:31
  have same sex, that also doesn't ultimately help them.
• 2:02:34
  It destroys people's understanding about what is
• 2:02:35
  true. So what are your thoughts on
• 2:02:38
  that? I think it's very interesting
• 2:02:39
  because I have heard both perspectives even from other D
• 2:02:43
  transitioners who have books and things like that.
• 2:02:45
  Their, their point of view you is I needed them to call me,
• 2:02:48
  call me out. Now.
• 2:02:51
  I think that there's a wave through the generation that is
• 2:02:54
  happening currently. So my perspective was based off
• 2:02:58
  of my experience and what I have seen.
• 2:03:01
  And so I believe coming alongside the person as they
• 2:03:03
  walk through their journey will allow them to be very honest
• 2:03:06
  with themselves. It is not your job to cause
• 2:03:08
  conviction to the person. So I need to call you your name
• 2:03:13
  the entire time. You are not going to convict me
• 2:03:15
  if I don't even know what conviction is.
• 2:03:17
  You are not. You were insulting me because I
• 2:03:19
  don't even know what the love of the Father is except for if I am
• 2:03:22
  welcoming and I am allowing you in this safe space, who am I to
• 2:03:26
  determine how you're in that safe space?
• 2:03:28
  You are not the person that's going to cause the person to
• 2:03:31
  change. It is the Lord that causes the
• 2:03:33
  person to change. But if they can't even sit there
• 2:03:36
  and receive what is being said because they're being judged on
• 2:03:39
  what they're being called, just to sit there.
• 2:03:41
  I was presented as Aiden for two years in my church before I got
• 2:03:46
  through this process, for a year and a half before I got through
• 2:03:49
  that process, sitting there as Aiden.
• 2:03:52
  But the board knew and the board prayed for me to know my real
• 2:03:55
  identity. They allowed me on this journey
• 2:03:58
  to be in a safe space to continue to hear from the Lord
• 2:04:01
  because my pastor stood very strong on it's not his job to
• 2:04:04
  convict me. God will do that.
• 2:04:06
  And God did do that in God's perfect timing.
• 2:04:09
  Because if we jump to the trance thing that they need to fix,
• 2:04:12
  they'll never fix the broken things that are actually broken.
• 2:04:15
  It's when you realize what is actually broken.
• 2:04:17
  You know what you can give to the Lord.
• 2:04:19
  Then you realize you don't need it.
• 2:04:20
  It's just like saying, OK, now that I've stopped this identity,
• 2:04:24
  now I'm not a lesbian anymore. I had to go through a journey of
• 2:04:28
  that that we don't go from. We don't go from lesbian to
• 2:04:31
  straight. Like that's not the journey.
• 2:04:33
  If someone's like, OK, you can't be a lesbian here.
• 2:04:35
  I wasn't acting as a lesbian here.
• 2:04:37
  I'm working through my thoughts and my addictions.
• 2:04:40
  I'm working through my attractions, but how would
• 2:04:42
  someone know that by looking at my exterior, whether it's same
• 2:04:45
  sex attraction or transgender. Now I completely understand.
• 2:04:49
  You know if it's a lot more harsh presenting, I have not.
• 2:04:53
  In our church, we have not seen, you know, a man trying to
• 2:04:57
  identify as a woman. We have not seen anything like
• 2:04:59
  that. Our church did have a support
• 2:05:01
  group. And it sounds like too, because
• 2:05:02
  I think it's also you're, it's very contextual.
• 2:05:05
  That's what I'm saying. Because if someone comes to the
• 2:05:07
  church and become part of the church and they're a man and
• 2:05:09
  then they say, well, actually I'm a woman.
• 2:05:10
  Yeah. And they want to transition and,
• 2:05:12
  and present as a woman. What is that's a little
• 2:05:14
  different than someone coming fresh the church as a new
• 2:05:17
  convert. And they're still living as a,
• 2:05:19
  you know, identifying as a man, but they're actually a woman and
• 2:05:22
  that's part of their journey. Correct.
• 2:05:23
  So I think this is where there's so much that goes into pastoral
• 2:05:26
  care here and it's going to be have to be tailor made to the
• 2:05:30
  person. So often I get worried about the
• 2:05:32
  LGBTQ label being used left and right because it kind of creates
• 2:05:37
  this new IT like it is like a legit identity that this is like
• 2:05:40
  a real, it's a political movement too, which is also gets
• 2:05:43
  very intense. It's a very intense political
• 2:05:44
  movement. And then when a church says we
• 2:05:47
  are LGBTQ here, I think it's sending this message of this is
• 2:05:52
  this is a true identity. This is a way to be right.
• 2:05:55
  And that this is something that we will, you know, it's, it's
• 2:05:58
  like you can be trans and Christian, you can be gay and
• 2:06:00
  Christian. You can act out as if you can
• 2:06:02
  act out on these things. And there's like, again, there's
• 2:06:04
  so much that's complexities to it that go into that like to,
• 2:06:07
  even to say to someone who has same sex attractions that you
• 2:06:09
  are gay. I think is undercutting them.
• 2:06:11
  There's so much more to them and and and complications behind and
• 2:06:16
  reasons behind our attractions, our desires, our feelings, our
• 2:06:18
  sense of identity. So I feel like the LGBTQ label
• 2:06:22
  is ultimately harmful. Oh completely.
• 2:06:24
  Even though it's presented as a safe place for identity.
• 2:06:28
  Yeah, I think that if someone came into your church right now
• 2:06:31
  and you knew about their past of prostitution, you're going to
• 2:06:34
  label her a prostitute and say we can't let a prostitute in the
• 2:06:36
  church when the prostitute is trying to understand and let go
• 2:06:40
  of sexual addictions. But she has a pimp who's in her
• 2:06:42
  ear who's harassing her, but she has to let go of that.
• 2:06:45
  That's the same thing with the LGBT.
• 2:06:46
  If I have a girlfriend here and I'm trying to figure out how to
• 2:06:49
  break up with her when I don't know those things, a prostitute,
• 2:06:51
  having a pimp who's here, who's trying to influence her, but
• 2:06:54
  she's trying to seek the Lord just as the LGBT person or the
• 2:06:57
  person with an addiction. I think the difference is unlike
• 2:07:00
  like alcoholic addiction or prostitution or something, LGBT
• 2:07:04
  is used almost in some ways a little bit as a status symbol
• 2:07:07
  today. Like especially for like young
• 2:07:09
  high schoolers today. It's like, Oh yeah, I am this
• 2:07:11
  new identity and I'm coming out and it's great.
• 2:07:13
  And so I think that's where there is a new frontier here of
• 2:07:17
  how do we do the deal with this in the church, to love people
• 2:07:20
  and to help people because that's the end.
• 2:07:22
  It's not to judge, it's not to shame, it's not to create
• 2:07:24
  divisions. It's actually to help people see
• 2:07:26
  who God created them to be and give them a path of freedom in
• 2:07:30
  in Christ. So yeah.
• 2:07:32
  I think there's an interesting take that's happening on the
• 2:07:34
  freedom of consciousness and the ability to speak.
• 2:07:38
  It's also known as conversion therapy, but it is conversion in
• 2:07:42
  the sense of walking through someone with unwanted same sex
• 2:07:45
  attraction. Someone is having to let go of
• 2:07:48
  certain things before it can be completely unwanted because the
• 2:07:52
  body tells them one thing, arousal tells them another, and
• 2:07:54
  now they're left in confusion. And with the young people,
• 2:07:57
  middle-aged and growing, people have to walk through where these
• 2:08:01
  things began. The church is to be a safe space
• 2:08:03
  to allow people to walk through their trauma just as anything
• 2:08:06
  else. But I do agree with you in
• 2:08:08
  regards to the loose labels and people having access to say
• 2:08:11
  whatever that they want to. I think it walks a fine line
• 2:08:14
  with progressive Christianity in the sense of saying that we are
• 2:08:17
  all inclusive, but there is a fine line to say what is
• 2:08:21
  inclusive. You're inclusive to allow just
• 2:08:23
  to be in the space or wanting to walk with them on a journey.
• 2:08:27
  You know, different type of support groups, different type
• 2:08:29
  of groups. I genuinely just believe that we
• 2:08:31
  are to love and to come alongside the person.
• 2:08:34
  And often you'll realize they're an amazing person who just has a
• 2:08:38
  lot of pain because I have met with doctors and scientists and
• 2:08:42
  I have met and gone to these conferences.
• 2:08:45
  There is no gay gene. And I've also seen if there's
• 2:08:47
  someone who has been on your podcast who also debunked that
• 2:08:51
  thought, you are not born gay. Jessica, I'd love to hear and
• 2:08:55
  thank you again. You'll just to close this out
• 2:08:58
  here, your message to maybe another person out there who is
• 2:09:04
  wrestling with the transgender identity.
• 2:09:06
  They think they are or they felt that they are a man but they're
• 2:09:11
  actually a woman, but they have doubts about it.
• 2:09:14
  What would you? What words would you give them?
• 2:09:17
  For someone who's on a journey, I would just tell them to not
• 2:09:21
  give up. Suicidal thoughts get very,
• 2:09:26
  very, very loud. The reality of everything, the
• 2:09:30
  transgender ideology, the same sex attraction.
• 2:09:35
  We are entertaining spirits. Let's just be honest.
• 2:09:38
  And with entertaining spirits, you put yourself in a really
• 2:09:41
  hard situation. And with the spirits you're
• 2:09:44
  entertaining, Death is something that's constantly bespoken.
• 2:09:48
  It's just easier if you're gone or it's just easier if you do
• 2:09:50
  this. I would say to the person who's
• 2:09:53
  on a journey, just don't give up.
• 2:09:55
  I know you may not know the Lord now or you're curious about the
• 2:09:58
  Lord. I'll explore the curiosity of
• 2:10:01
  Jesus, and if you're not just there yet, that's OK, but do not
• 2:10:04
  give up. Seek.
• 2:10:06
  Had I given up in 2019, Lila, I would never been right here as
• 2:10:12
  the woman I was created to be. And it has been one of the
• 2:10:16
  hardest, longest journeys of my life.
• 2:10:20
  But it was the best journey because now I do have the desire
• 2:10:23
  to live. The person who's contemplating
• 2:10:26
  their gender, that's the least of your worries.
• 2:10:29
  Just don't give up. Don't give in to the suicidal
• 2:10:33
  thoughts. Don't give in to the depression.
• 2:10:35
  Don't give in to the self hatred.
• 2:10:37
  Work through what your insecurities are.
• 2:10:40
  Work through what's making you think you are supposed to be a
• 2:10:43
  boy. It's OK to question yourself if
• 2:10:46
  you're not ready to have other people question you.
• 2:10:49
  But question yourself as to why you even did this.
• 2:10:51
  Why do you want to do this? Why is this opposite gender more
• 2:10:56
  appealing to you? What is causing you to think
• 2:10:59
  that you are this? What exposed you?
• 2:11:03
  And once you start to dig into those, you'll realize it was
• 2:11:06
  outside of you. It was factors that came into
• 2:11:10
  play that made you think that you were supposed to.
• 2:11:13
  A bully in the locker room, an insecure person or an insecure
• 2:11:16
  thought or someone made a comment.
• 2:11:18
  There's roots to everything. It's OK to get to those roots.
• 2:11:22
  And in that process, I believe they'll come to know the Lord.
• 2:11:26
  Amen. Amen.
• 2:11:27
  Jessica Rose, thank you so much for joining the podcast.
• 2:11:30
  Absolutely. Thank you, Lila.
• 2:11:32
  I appreciate being here. Thank you so much for listening
• 2:11:34
  to this episode with Jessica Rose.
• 2:11:36
  Please share it with a friend, a family member, somebody that you
• 2:11:40
  think needs to hear Jessica's incredible story.
• 2:11:42
  And don't forget to subscribe here on this channel and over at
• 2:11:46
  our new Lila Rose Show Clips channel.
• 2:11:48
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• 2:11:50
  patreon.com/lila Rose Show. Thank you so much.
• 2:11:55
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• 2:11:58
  broadcaster in the entire world. EWTN is reaching millions of
• 2:12:02
  people every single day with the beautiful truth of the gospel.
• 2:12:05
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• 2:12:09
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