Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #91 | Building Better Cultures: Kim Allen on Inclusion, Leadership, and the Future of Construction
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:05) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder podcast. I'm very excited to have this lovely lady back because I've spoken to her for a while. Though she's been on a few podcasts, everyone loves her when she comes on and so do I. And that is the great Kim Ella. How are you Kim? Kim Allen (00:19) Hello, thanks for having me back again. ⁓ You know does it ever stop ⁓ To be honest, I'll wear in the month of July at the moment and July is my reset month So I've taken myself away with the kids and we all got sick which you know Defeats the purpose of a week away as a family, but it was it was nice. It forced us to stop So you got to be thankful, right? And then I've got a few sneaky ⁓ moments away with Aaron Ng (00:23) Yeah, what's been going on? Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (00:48) Chris, my husband, and my daughter one-on-one. So it's a huge reset month for me to push through the rest of the year. So, yeah. Aaron Ng (00:50) Yeah. Yeah. No, that's cool. And Kim, so is this something you always plan? Like, is this strategic for you or what is it? Okay. Okay. It is. That's why I asked the question because I do random go-aways. Like I'm just like, okay, I'm gone. Kim Allen (01:04) Very strategic isn't everything with me? Yeah. Aaron Ng (01:14) You know, and I'll tell people on LinkedIn, I'm out. I'll just tell everyone I'm out. But it's not strategic for me. And I'm finding that the older I get, or maybe not even the older I get, everyone needs to be strategic about that. Kim Allen (01:26) Yeah, no, I am. So we book the kids a trip away with the kids every school holidays and it doesn't have to be a big trip, but we do it. So we regroup as a family because when you're so busy with work, you can easily drift apart and you get stuck in your routine. So, you know, takes you out of the routine, your feet in the grass, fresh air in your lungs. You can't complain, right? ⁓ And then I, yeah, the rest of the month. Aaron Ng (01:36) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (01:53) July is usually one of our quietest ⁓ or honestly the least amount of money coming in or ⁓ it's always sort of July is the everyone sort of scratching themselves what's going on and then boom August hits. So I need to be ready for that. Aaron Ng (02:01) Viva. Yeah. And then what I've seen over the past few years and I get slightly scared by it is the run into Christmas. that's crazy for the construction industry. Kim Allen (02:19) Yes, yes, yes. It's intense and it gets earlier every year. Like you're easy from September at the moment it starts and it's just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. So if we can stop regroup while we can, gold, absolute gold. And then you've got the strength and the energy to keep pushing through. Aaron Ng (02:27) Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm cool. That's awesome, Kim. So what else, like in a professional sort of sense, what's been keeping you busy lately? I remember last time we spoke, you doing a bit and we spoke about this just before we jumped on the pod because I'm having a look at a little consolidation. I learned a lot from you, Kim. The growth, the consolidates, see what's going on. What do we need? Bring it back in. ⁓ You said last... Kim Allen (03:01) No. ⁓ We're back on the therapy chair. ⁓ Aaron Ng (03:09) I'll come for another visit. ⁓ But I'm good. I'm good. ⁓ But yeah, you said you working on a bit of the CRA business. Those exciting things going on there. And then also the Association of Wall and Ceiling Industries, you know, being a board member and leading the charge here in Queensland and working with the National to bring it all together. So how's all that been going? Kim Allen (03:28) Yeah. Yep. Yes, it's been going really, really well. I ⁓ see a Ray, we've got a new general manager and that's getting him trained up. We've got a few new internal team members, some having to spend a lot of time training them and getting them up to speed. And it's a gradual process. It's not an overnight process. So like every day they ⁓ Aaron Ng (03:40) Yes. Yeah. Kim Allen (03:54) get better and every week I can hand over something new to them. So I'm not, we're not, it's not all off my plate, but certainly it's a work in progress and it's progression, which is amazing. Yeah, so huge focus on that. We're having a huge focus on our, our team who we are, what our culture is, what CRO stands for, trying to make sure that anyone new that's with us. Aaron Ng (04:04) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Kim Allen (04:22) truly understands what we're pushing for and why we're pushing for it ⁓ and bringing the group back into alignment. ⁓ It's hard, know, I get busy, Chris gets busy and when we didn't have a general manager, we are it, right? So we're the driving force and when you're so busy, it's hard to acknowledge, you know, what the are, but it's hard to give that time to, you know, energy to rectify or just Aaron Ng (04:29) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (04:52) improve. ⁓ So we're very much so at a reset, ⁓ reset on how we ⁓ align how our team moves on forward, you know, brings each our team together constantly. You know, it's just it's always a work in progress. There's there's no perfect picture. There's no perfect scenario. It's just every day we are constantly how can we get better? What can we do? What do need to focus on? Aaron Ng (04:53) Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Kim Allen (05:21) Where is our energy being taken? Aaron Ng (05:23) Well, that makes a great leader, like continual improvement. never, you always, there's always something you can do better. And yeah, you talk about that a lot, Kim. So I love that. Yeah, it's cool. And speaking of that, speaking of doing things better in the industry recently, have you seen anything that sort of you've gone, yeah, that was cool. Like have you seen any steps forward, especially in that women in construction sort of realm? I know you're very deep in that and you mentor in that and you kind of are a leader in that. What's been, you know, what's been happening? Kim Allen (05:25) Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah! Aaron Ng (05:53) that space. cool out there happening that we can... Kim Allen (05:54) Yeah, I think I said on the last part, I went to a meeting with the QVCC commissioner and the construction, the building commissioner for the, that's doing the report into our industry ⁓ and the minister for the building and housing works. And what really, really impressed me about that meeting was that they brought every association in and it was an open conversation and Aaron Ng (06:01) yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Kim Allen (06:22) they genuinely understood or heard what everyone said or they were already working on that issue. So, you know, what we're whinging about or what we all are jumping up in arms about constantly, they hear us, they get it, you know, that there is a work in progress. With the Wall and Ceiling Association, 100%, it was such an eye-opener to Aaron Ng (06:26) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Kim Allen (06:48) come in and come on a senior level to be able to understand what they're truly working on. So I can say, hang on, you know, all these grievances that I've been going, I need to improve this, I need to improve this. I'm not alone. It's across the board. They get it. They want to keep improving. They know the challenges that we're having on site and running a business and whatnot. they are being worked on, but it's a slow Aaron Ng (06:53) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (07:18) burn. So, you know, very much so. can't just, you know, click your fingers and all of a sudden, voila, there's this new change because we need to make sure that it's going to be the correct change on a state level on an if it's a national problem. What are the repercussions? What's the evidence that we have? You know, it's not just let's complain, it's let's formulate and build a case. Aaron Ng (07:18) Yeah, there's a lot to it, isn't it, Kim? Yeah. Yeah Hmm. Kim Allen (07:47) of evidence and say this is what needs to happen and why. Aaron Ng (07:50) Yeah, yeah, no, that's so cool, Kim. So yeah, speaking with the government up there with the big girls and boys, I think that's pretty cool that you do a lot of that stuff and you continue to advocate for the industry and yeah. Kim Allen (07:59) Yeah! There was, yeah, there was a huge, in that meeting, it was, I reckon over 60 % were females and all of them freely spoke up. And that was an eye-opener. That was awesome. That was going, yes, we are getting there. There is movement. And everything that they said was, you know, listened, that it was heard. Aaron Ng (08:16) Yeah, wow. Yeah. Awesome. And 60. sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (08:31) It was, and it was respected what they were saying. So there was no, you know, put it back in your box. You don't know what you're talking about. It was, it was genuinely, I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Easy. Aaron Ng (08:34) That's. Mm. That's cool. And so you can expect 60 % more women. That's great. And that's great to hear. I remember past professions of mine when I was in Mervac and that was a, know, Mervac built a bit of a residential, built of rent, but I was working in the commercial space. there was a big push to bring more women into leadership roles. And it was very cool. It created a really cool balance and it was good to see them have a seat at the table. And the discussions we had and I think the solutions that we came to were much better than what we would have done. Kim Allen (09:01) Mmm. Yeah, yep absolutely. Aaron Ng (09:16) wrap them on the team. So that's so cool. That's awesome, Kim. Well, this is actually what I want to sort of talk about with you today as you know, as a big advocate for this in the industry is and you touch we touch on a little bit in every podcast really, but a bit about partnership and awareness on a builder's behalf. Kim Allen (09:22) Mmm. Aaron Ng (09:35) I had a couple of conversations since we last spoke actually, Kim, and I was actually walking along Brisbane with a gentleman and he was a builder and I was talking to him about women in construction and things like that and pretty old school builder, not gonna name the guy, great guy, don't get me wrong, but talking about different things and I was like, yeah, I don't know if he got it. I don't know if he... got some of the stuff we've spoken about, I told him to listen back to some of our podcasts and things like that. But ⁓ I think he missed some of the stuff that just makes it a little more. And this is probably the wrong word. I don't mean to sound like this, Kim, but a little more comfortable for women on site. You know, I mean, they should be there anyway. They don't, you know, they should be there. We don't, you know, it just should be part of our DNA in the industry. But what are some of the blind spots you see some of the builders don't sort of take into account with women on their teams and things, Kim? Kim Allen (10:17) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. it's not realizing that what we bring is we have a whole other perspective. you know it's women are from, Venus, men are from Mars, right? We are polar opposite but the reality is if you bring us together it's this beautiful united front, right? And if you're wanting a fresh perspective, if you're wanting you know another way to think Aaron Ng (10:38) Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Kim Allen (10:59) outside the box. That's the beautiful thing of what women bring. It's this balance. It's not just testosterone, estrogen, all this sort of business. It's generally, we have a different perspective. My brain works differently to yours and everyone else's. So everyone works differently. I speaking with one of my mentees recently and she's like, you know, she's an apprentice and she was afraid to speak up and suggest an idea to her supervisor. Aaron Ng (11:03) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yep. Yep. Mm. Kim Allen (11:29) And I said, you it's actually, she couldn't believe how he was doing something because it was, he was going around in this ginormous circle of these ziggly lines. She's like, but if you just go from here to here, you'll actually make it much easier and achieve exactly what you're trying to achieve much quicker and efficiently. Now, my job with her is to build her confidence up to be able to have that conversation, right? But what builders are missing is not Aaron Ng (11:54) Yep. Kim Allen (11:58) asking the question. Aaron Ng (12:01) Yeah. Kim Allen (12:01) Yeah, sorry, not thinking that they have an input, not thinking that they have something beneficial to bring to the party. So it's often I'll walk into any any meeting, right, and I am automatically allocated any government meeting more to the point and I'm allocated as this admin, admin role. And they just assume that's what I do. I'm there to take notes, right? Happy to play that role sometimes, more than happy, right? Aaron Ng (12:05) Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (12:31) ⁓ But the reality is, it's like yourself as, you start, I'm like an onion, start peeling me back and all of a sudden it's, you know, there's depth and there's so much knowledge and there's, what I can bring is a whole other perspective. And that's, can, it can be utilized on site, it can be utilized in the office, it can be utilized in any element of life. Yeah, yeah. Aaron Ng (12:45) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, it's cool. I love it, Kim. And I think blokes do that. we just, my life picks it out in me sometimes. Like, I'll just be like... I'm doing it, I don't communicate to her and I'm going this path, right? And it's only when she pulls me up, but I talk to her and sometimes she's like, I don't know if you want to be pulled up. You know, cause we're not going, hey, I need help. I need, we need to be a bit more vulnerable as men and ask a question. And actually, I'm sorry, I'm getting excited about this because this is exactly what this Brisbane builder was like. He's like, open, he's not vulnerable. He's not asking the questions. He's just like, this is how it is and that's how it is. And I'm like, no, that's not how it is. So I think I started with, female toilets on site. And that's what started the, that's not how it is. Like ask the freaking question, talk, communicate, start conversations. Blokes wouldn't even like your toilets. I wouldn't like walking in your toilets. Come on, you know. Kim Allen (13:49) Yep. It's a straight example of why ⁓ I've called myself Mrs Kim Ellen is because initially it was ⁓ my husband calling me the Mrs. And I said, why do you call me that? And he said, because everyone does it, everyone gets it. And the reality is that if they were to call me by my name, they're going to respect me more. They're going to hear me. They're going to see me instead of just being the Mrs. You've boxed me in and I Aaron Ng (14:04) Okay. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Kim Allen (14:24) have to now weave my way out of it because of those small words. So it's the Mrs. or the wife will get onto it or the office girls will sort it out. It's this 80s mentality. However long it's been going, like construction's been for hundreds of years, but let's pretend it's the 80s, right? It's where we're stuck in the 80s and we can't shift out of that mentality of this is just how it is. Aaron Ng (14:28) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (14:52) And all we're trying to do is, it's not feminism, it's not, you know, women are here to rule the world. It's generally, we just bring a better ⁓ contribution to any conversation or situation. And if you utilize our resources and what we can do, think of it like a business investment, right? Your investment will turn and skyrocket. ⁓ Aaron Ng (15:08) I agree. Yep. Yeah. Kim Allen (15:21) You know, we're trying to find all these tradesmen to build Brisbane, Queensland for the Olympic Games. females take up 50 % of the gender of the population, you know, utilize these resources. But to do that, you have to say, well, I have to be willing to adapt. ⁓ You know, not many people like change and that's okay. But it's adjusting these small steps, small ways of thinking to be able to incorporate Aaron Ng (15:33) Mm. Yep. Kim Allen (15:50) how that can be utilized in your business, in your project, whatever it might be. Aaron Ng (15:56) It's cool. I love it, Kim. I totally agree. I was gonna try and say something, but I'm not, because you nailed it. So, you know, I've got another question for you, You talk about being a bit more vulnerable, a bit more. or communicating. What are three other things? Because I want to write an article about this. want from all of our chats and I have been doing it, but you always come out with gems and knowledge that I just want to have on the internet to live forever and people to reference and fricking read. So what are three ⁓ things that you think builders could do right now to improve their business and... ⁓ like welcoming women into the business. Like what could they do? Or, yeah, making it more comfortable, sorry. Kim Allen (16:39) Yeah, I think going back to what I said before, checking your language. you know, it's not the Mrs. It's not the wife will get onto it. It's not the office girls. It's my team. It's Kim. It's, you know, I work with poor, ⁓ probably 70, 80 builders, right? I know all their teams names. It's not the admin girl. It's not the CA. It's not the PM. It's we know them by name. Aaron Ng (16:44) Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Kim Allen (17:09) So why box them into this category that belittles their role, right? We've all worked hard to get to where we are, our own it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's my contract administrator, ⁓ Alice will sort that, right? You know, whatever it might be. ⁓ What else we got? Invite them in. So ⁓ when they're in a meeting. Aaron Ng (17:13) love it. Play a lot of wrong. ⁓ Yeah. Yep. Love it. Kim Allen (17:38) invite their input. So most females are scared to actually voice up, but they have so much brewing in their mind that they're actually scared to bring that up to say, is my opinion. ⁓ So it's, yeah, invite them into the conversation. What do you think on this? What is, you know, how, how would you play this out? Is there anything you think you could do better? What Aaron Ng (17:43) Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (18:06) we could do better, not you, but we, you know, it's not putting the pressure on them and forcing them to take responsibility. It's you're a united team, involve them in the team and in the conversation. A lot of the time I'm telling my girls that I'm mentor, you need to plant the seed often because most egos in a boardroom ⁓ or even at a table, they don't want you to, you know, stamp on their parade or jump in where they should have come up with that idea, right? Aaron Ng (18:09) Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Kim Allen (18:36) So you plant the seed and if they then take that idea and run with it, let them, because the reality is it might not be your job role to run with it, but you've planted the seed, you've given them that inspiration, which they can then implement, right? So you water it, you water the seed and then you watch it grow into this beautiful plant, right? And that's all come from your idea, but you have to be able to voice up to have that idea. Aaron Ng (18:44) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (19:05) And then probably the last one is calling it out. So if you see someone being disrespected, if you see someone being shamed or belittled or anything of that sort, you call out the poor behavior. But that comes to men and women, right? So if someone of a senior role says, hey man, that's not okay, or even a junior role saying, hey, that's not okay, that then Aaron Ng (19:08) Cool. Yeah. Kim Allen (19:34) sets the standard for where the line is, right? Are you under the line or are you above the line in how you represent your brand, your company, who you're working for, whatever it might be? Are you below the line in your culture and you're creating this toxic culture of ⁓ bullying and not abusing, but swearing at people? Or are you a supportive nature? Are you encouraging? Are you wanting to Aaron Ng (19:38) Yeah. Kim Allen (20:03) work together, not against one another. But it all starts with someone calling it out and saying, that's not okay. Aaron Ng (20:05) Yeah. I love it, Kim. All those three were great. The second one, especially, I've been in many boardrooms and why I quit the boardroom and now try and work for myself because there's too many egos in there. And I'm very mindful of that. And I'm not trying to paint myself as the good guy at all, but actually last week, a lot of these conversations, you know, I'm very mindful of this hit me every, you know, these conversations I have with you hit me. And anyway, we were sitting over at the pub next door with Lux as greats and they're fantastic. Kim Allen (20:21) Mmm! Aaron Ng (20:41) Great crew and Aliza my content creator was sitting there and and I invited them to lunch I said, let's go grab some lunch good builder. She are you get a shout to King? We can't see how everyone on the podcast you could come up for lunch when we when you come up next but she's I said she's like I didn't she goes oh, know I'll stay and I'm like, no you gotta eat and I'm gonna buy you lunch come and have lunch and then I kind of felt something and I had a little chat with on the way down my you good?" And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good, I'm good. I saw her there, we're all chatting about building. She's sitting there playing on her phone. And I could tell it was a little bit awkward. I said, and then I included her in this conversation. And we started talking about a few campaigns and what they're doing. was like, what's your, what are your thoughts? man, the value she brought because she is a creative genius was amazing. And then afterwards I was like, Hey, you know, we have a little chat and I'm trying to be a better leader myself. And I was like, Hey, you know, you've got a lot to give. I love what you come up with. Just say it. I'll never judge you. I'll always support you. And like, I thought that was like for me, like that was cool for me to do. thought like just, was pretty proud of myself and that's a lot of learnings from you, Kim, but for her, Kim Allen (21:51) Yeah. Aaron Ng (21:54) She just feels 100 % more comfortable now. Went to this Aviah Holmes Golf Day, she's having conversations. I'm like, oh man, this is good. Like you have so much to give to this world beyond the good builder, wherever this journey takes you in life. It's so cool. So I'm so passionate about that, but all three men were so cool. Kim, you're legend. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (21:57) Yeah. Yep. amazing. but she's spent so many years being put in a box or not being welcomed into the conversation or not being allowed to voice up that this is the norm, right? And this is what we're trying to change. And you setting that example is awesome. And it's speaking on this podcast, it's speaking out loud to anyone that will listen is this is the standard that we're trying to set that we are trying to. And as I said, this is just a small change, right? Aaron Ng (22:27) Yeah Yeah. See. Yeah. Kim Allen (22:43) But it's monumental for Eliza's world, right? And that's the difference. it's not everyone has to adapt to all these crazy changes. It's just this silent shift that one does and it's a knock on effect and that's all that matters. Aaron Ng (22:47) yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah, that's cool, Kim. Nah, that's awesome. Well, ⁓ have you seen any great examples of this in builders? Or if a builder needs to make a great example of this, where would you start, Kim? Does it start with culture? Does it start with communication? Does it start with policy? How do you implement it in your business? Kim Allen (23:23) Yeah, culture is everything. If you don't have a good culture, you have nothing. And the culture has to, you have to actively work on the culture. And my business is proof in the pudding, right? I worked very strongly last year on my culture. And then this year I got very busy. And right, I wasn't there to be able ⁓ to keep it going. And it slides so quickly. So now we're working on bringing it back, right? Aaron Ng (23:37) Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (23:53) But this is our reality. It's not an everyday perfect puzzle. It's let's find this piece of the puzzle and that piece of the puzzle and try and make it work, right? But it's an active thing to create this culture. Once you've got the culture, then you can progress into your communication. And at the very end, policy, absolutely you need a policy around it. You need to stipulate in black and white. Aaron Ng (24:05) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kim Allen (24:23) ⁓ This is who we are. This is what we stand for. This is what we accept, what we don't accept. And this is in a form to read at any given time at your disposal, right? ⁓ That needs to happen for any new person coming into your team, anyone that's forgotten something. It's a reminder, a refresher. ⁓ But you have to start with a good team first. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (24:35) Yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kim Allen (24:53) It's the end of the line. If you don't have that culture, no one wants to work for you. No one wants to come to work. Everyone's stressed. Everyone's burnt out. Everyone's hating it. They start snapping at each other, getting nasty to one another. Who wants to deal with that every day? Aaron Ng (25:14) Yeah, exactly, Kim. And you know what? You bring a good culture to your business into the good builder. To our community, you do. No one's perfect though. No one's perfect. You know what mean? Like you said at the beginning, everyone is up for continual improvement and doing things better and... Kim Allen (25:19) Thank you. Well, I definitely try. I won't say I'm perfect. Don't put me on this pillar, but I definitely try. Exactly right. Yep. Yep. Mm. Aaron Ng (25:35) You I think you always raise the bar, but I love how you just talked about the standard. Like what's the standard then we can raise the bar and the standard should be women are involved in construction and we do this and we do that. And this is how we should do it. I love it Kim. So. Kim Allen (25:41) Mmm. Mmm. Yep. Aaron Ng (25:50) It's always such a pleasure talking to you. okay. Well, what's on for the rest of the week then, Kim? That was amazing. So much value in there. What are you up to for the rest of the week or the next couple of weeks? I'm gonna have you back on. So if everyone listens, all the listeners out there, I know you always ask for Kim. So next couple of weeks, we'll have her back on. What do you tell them? Kim Allen (25:59) Yeah. Yeah, what we got. So today I'm off for a committee meeting for AWCI. So that's a in-person catch up. So it'd be good to see all the team and get them up to date with everything that's going on. Where the AWCI is meeting with the QBCC at the moment actually. So that's all about continually improving our changes and what we're trying to change and improve in the industry. it's like, it's really, really exciting because Aaron Ng (26:13) aware. amazing. Yeah Kim Allen (26:35) you know, everything that you're working on, everything that you're trying to drive and improve, you know, when these sort of meetings happen, it's the first moment of potential change, you know, and the QBCC Commissioner, Angelo, he's like, he's just so open to everyone's suggestions and opinions and like, he's just bring it at me, I want it. And it's amazing, you know, it's really refreshing. ⁓ But otherwise, I am up to Aaron Ng (26:45) Yeah, you'll be caught up. All That is awesome. Kim Allen (27:04) I'm Bundaberg this week with my daughter and a friend to just have a little breakaway at a farm stay. So that's my final, final little piece for July. Feed in the grass, chill out with some animals and just, yeah, relax in front of the fire. And then yeah, August hits and then August will be busy. So it's, I'm excited. Few schools that I'm going to go see. We've got the Queensland Training Awards this week. Aaron Ng (27:10) Bye. Yep. That's it. Yeah. wow. Kim Allen (27:34) Hopefully, C-Ray comes through with a win and yeah. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron Ng (27:38) Another win. There's been a few this year. I know that the past, you know, few years to be honest. So that's super exciting. Well, I'm gonna wait. As I said, I'll invite you back when you do have a spare moment. I actually would like to film another podcast with you in our new little studio here and take you to lunch as I said, and we'll bring a laser and we'll have a great chat. And yeah, we're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. Kim Allen (28:00) I'll hold you to it, mate. Aaron Ng (28:05) But yeah, I think that's the pod. And again, thank you so much. That was so value packed. As I said, we're going to write some articles on it. We can drop some socials. We're to drop maybe even a little guide that's like, um, Kim Allen branded to say, Hey, we'll work on it with you and say, Hey, he's a bit of a guide about how you can implement it in your business. This is what we want to do. Give out some resources and, know, you're a great resource. I don't want to use you Kim, but like, it'd be great to. Kim Allen (28:34) must have made up in downloading all your resources you've been providing lately and they are gold so anyone that hasn't get on it yeah they're awesome Aaron Ng (28:39) cool. Thank you. thanks, Eve-Stim. Yeah, and I think like, you know, we talk technically about how to market your business and things like that, but yep, you've got to market your business. But if I were a builder that didn't have a good culture and didn't do what we just spoke about, don't do any of my resource guides right now. Wait for this next month. And that's for real. It's for real. Dude, don't do it. Okay. Okay, sorry. Kim Allen (29:03) to be able to get more business. So you've got to kind of do a bit of A, bit of B, right? Aaron Ng (29:06) Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, maybe I've gone too hard on the culture side this morning. I'm just all about it at the moment. Okay, builders, do what you want. But ⁓ yeah, wait for this guide because I think it's gonna be pretty cool. And yeah, we'll work on it with Kim. So no, thank you once again, Kim, you're a legend. All right, catch you Kim. Kim Allen (29:11) ⁓ Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for having me. ⁓