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E136: Evidence Mary Visited Us In Modern Times w/ Fr Spitzer · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  What are Marian apparitions and why are they important, and do
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  you need to believe in them the way you believe in divine
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  revelation? I mean, just wait till you hear
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  about Fatima and Lord's Guadalupe today.
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  I mean, this painting that you're looking at is of no known
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  natural pigment. I mean, we're talking about a
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  lot of witnesses here. And it's like 40,000 people of
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  every stripe, right? There were scientists that were
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  there, medical doctors that were there.
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  We're lawyers. The Lord is just giving us more
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  than enough evidence for any reasonable, responsible person
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  to adhere to. Hey, guys.
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  Welcome back to the Lila Rose Podcast.
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  I'm very excited that we've got the very wonderful Father
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  Spitzer in studio today. So very happy you're back on
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  today, Father Spitzer. Thanks for joining.
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  Oh, it's really wonderful to be back with you again, Lila, and
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  thank you for the opportunity we're.
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  Going to be talking about these controversial Marian apparitions
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  which don't tune out if you're not Catholic and you're like, Oh
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  well, I'm not Catholic. I don't know about this.
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  I think the history about Marian apparitions, their impact in
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  history, and just about Marian general is hugely powerful and I
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  think everyone should know about it.
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  So I'm very excited to have the expert here, Father Spitzer.
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  Father, can you give a little bit of your background for
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  people though that are just getting to know you?
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  Well, I'm a Jesuit priest, so I'm celebrating my feast
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  day-to-day. Saint Ignatius of Loyola, of
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  course. And I joined the Society of
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  Jesus 1974 after graduating from college.
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  And when I moved into the Society, I always interested in
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  science, always interested in math, but also interested in
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  business and leadership. So I've had a sort of a diverse
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  background. But in my graduate studies, I
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  emphasized 2 areas, New Testament Scripture, which I
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  took, you know, a master's THM in with a specialty in
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  scripture. And then from the Western School
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  in Cambridge, MA. And then I also studied
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  philosophy of science and did my doctorate in philosophy of
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  science. Specifically, my dissertation
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  was on time theory and of course I do metaphysics, variety of
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  other things. I taught at Georgetown
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  University for a while. I taught at Seattle University
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  for a while and held the the Frank Schronce Chair there and
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  then taught at Gonzaga University.
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  And but I was really the president of the university for
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  11 years. I started the site of the Maja
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  Center of Reason and Faith, trying to put together, you
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  know, science with faith. I mean, the the complementarity
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  is so awesome. And, you know, people don't know
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  that most scientists today are are theists or believers in God.
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  They actually think the contrary.
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  So it might be nice to know just at the start that the Pew survey
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  says today that 51% of scientists over all believe in
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  God or a higher transcendent power.
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  Only 21% are agnostic, 20% are atheist.
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  But the young scientist, that's the most interesting statistic.
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  66%, that's a super majority are believers in God or a higher
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  transcendence, and only 15% are agnostics and 15% atheist.
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  And then the doctors, the physicians are even more
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  interesting. The last survey was 76% / 3/4.
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  Our believers in God are a higher transcendent power.
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  Only I believe it is. 12.5% are agnostics, 11.2% are atheists.
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  Today, you know, science is no longer discrediting faith.
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  Simeons is opening the door to faith.
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  So I've written about four new books recently.
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  The first book, Science at the Doorstep to God, which we've
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  talked about here a little bit. Then Science, I'm sorry, Christ,
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  Science and Reason, which just came out two weeks ago from
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  Ignatius. Then Science, Reason, Faith,
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  Discovering the Bible. We've talked about that a little
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  bit here. And then now I'm doing also the
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  Science Reason Faith Study Bible for OSV, which should be out in
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  November. Father, your work is absolutely
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  incredibly important and you're just delightful to talk to and
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  you're a delightful read. So I know the folks that haven't
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  already met you who are listening now already find you
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  delightful, I'm sure. And so much wisdom that you have
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  and so much experience because you've done, you've written it,
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  you said 18 books. Now you have 4 new books you
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  mentioned and you, you become an expert on so much of this
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  intersection of faith and reason and faith in science.
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  So today we're going to be talking focusing on Marian
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  apparitions. There's so many other things we
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  could be focused on because you're, there's so many much
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  more to cover with you. But we're going to stick to the
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  Marian apparitions for today because I, I think it's such AI
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  think so many people maybe misunderstand this aspect of
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  Catholicism or Orthodoxy. And I, I want to first start
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  from the, the 100 thousandth of view.
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  What are Marian apparitions and why are they important and do
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  you need to believe in them the way you believe in divine
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  revelation? You know the Jesus Christ was
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  resurrected? Or is there more to a Marian
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  apparition than just pure belief?
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  Yeah. So Marian apparitions, No, you
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  do not need to believe in them like you would like divine
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  scripture or a dogmatic proclamation of Christian
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  doctrine. So you are free to say I don't
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  believe in them. I do believe in them as you
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  wish. So there's no requirement that
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  anyone believe in any specific apparition.
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  I would say that there is very credible science based evidence
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  that every one of the three I'll be discussing today, Guadalupe,
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  Fatima and Lourdes, that there is very credible and there are
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  other ones too, but those are the three I'll take today.
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  But there's very credible scientific evidence, but you do
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  not have to believe in them. They are a visitation, an
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  apparitions of visitation from the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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  They comes to a specific person at a specific time.
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  So right, you're dealing with the, the, the movement in in the
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  Republic of France, for example, in 1854, or are you kind of
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  secularist movement that's just trying to kill the church?
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  And here comes the Blessed Virgin Mary to this peasant,
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  rather uneducated. She was the slowest girl in the
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  class, quote UN quote, according to some of her teachers and of
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  course, Bernadette Suburu. But she's the one that the
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  Blessed Virgin Mary appears to because she's very pure in
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  heart. And I'll talk about that later.
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  But the main thing is we needed this to happen at the time.
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  And of course, she reveals herself as the Immaculate
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  Conception right in the middle of that miracle.
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  Fatima, you've got this terrible war that's been, you know, I
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  mean, what year is the World War, 1917?
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  And we're talking major bloodletting in World War One,
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  right? These are the over the trenches,
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  right? You know, hundreds of thousands
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  of people just dying day out, you know, gas attack,
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  everything. It was a terrible, terrible
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  bloodletting. And it was followed just because
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  of the horrors of the trench warfare by the Spanish flu,
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  which was a probably killed about 1/3 of the Earth's
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  population, you know, and Mary's there, she's holding our hand.
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  And I'll tell you that Fatima Miracle had a huge difference to
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  the maintenance of religious faith in Europe.
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  Of course, there's a lot of secularism going on at that
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  time, a lot of Masonry that was opposed to Catholicism and in
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  religion of, you know, the, the, the Catholic persuasion at that
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  time, so forth and so on. And so again, Mary is there.
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  There's a reason, obviously, we see, you know, at the time when
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  Guadalupe happens, almost 500 years ago right there, what
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  you're dealing with is, frankly, human sacrifice and a variety of
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  other things that were just in part of the native culture that
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  was here. But remarkably, this miracle
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  gets around and it becomes truly, you know, integral to,
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  you know, religion and faith in Mexico.
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  Now, somebody might say, well, why did why didn't Jesus appear?
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  I mean, why Mary? I mean, you know, Mary is his
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  mother. And there's a very nice thing,
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  but what has she got to do with it?
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  Well, God is elevated. Mary, I have to tell you to
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  being an A, you know, a huge part integral to the economy of
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  salvation. He, Jesus, has elevated his own
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  mother to being a part of the team, as it were, of, you know,
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  the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit within the economy
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  of salvation. She's going to have an active
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  role. Well, why would they do that?
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  I mean, gosh, they could do everything that Mary could do,
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  obviously. So why pick Mary?
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  Because Mary has a feminine voice.
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  Mary has a feminine way. I can just tell you the times
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  when we need a mother and men need a mother, that's just women
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  want a mother, men need a mother.
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  I mean, even in war situations, you know, when all of a sudden,
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  you know, as some people, you know, tell these stories, you
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  know, these Catholic guys start praying the Hail Mary and, you
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  know, in the middle of a terrifying situation.
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  And the president guys are saying it too.
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  You know, there's just something about that motherly voice, that
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  motherly protection, that motherly comfort, you know,
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  that's there. Every boy remembers it, even
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  though of course they attached to their fathers.
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  You know, in terms of, you know, adult things, there is that
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  almost instinctual, you know, you know, when you're dying in a
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  trench, what, who you're calling for generally not your dad,
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  you're calling for your mother. And so this is very normal.
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  In fact, you know the whole idea of a mother just being a part,
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  You know that like we, we don't have a sense as Catholics that
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  is God and us alone. Our whole soteriology, our our
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  view of salvation is family oriented.
• 11:06
  A big thank you to our partner Hallow.
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  From the get go from Jesus is not just his nativity, but from
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  his his conception all the way through his nativity all the way
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  to this day or being incorporated into a family.
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  And that includes family love. That includes fatherly love that
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  includes motherly love that includes brotherly love that
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  includes of course, a divine component.
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  And then, of course, the divinization, as it were, a
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  Mary's humanity, and not in the sense that she becomes a divine
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  entity, but that she has that glorious capacity and series of
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  capacities, and her love is elevated to the point where she
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  can share it with a myriad of people, right?
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  All of that is part of our view of the way things are.
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  I don't know about you, but in our house when I was a little
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  kid, we always had the creche set.
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  And my mom, God bless her, you know, my mom would always point
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  out the Creschette and so forth. And I would look at that
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  Creschette, you know, when I was a little kid and I just knew
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  that was my family too. Yes, of course I loved our
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  family and I felt part of our family.
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  But the idea that, you know, heaven was like a family, that
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  Mary was going to be there and Joseph was going to be there.
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  And, you know, this whole idea of I'm part of this family.
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  I can sit at the dinner table, you know, like my own family.
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  Or I could just be part of this communion of familial love.
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  And you know how you can joke with your brothers and your
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  sisters. And, you know, I mean, I'd
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  always joke with my mother. I'd say trust me, mom, and you
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  go, no, I can't trust you. It's that tone of voice.
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  But anyway, the long and the short of it is there's such a
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  familiarity, there's such an intimacy, a real emotional
• 13:54
  intimacy in family love. And so we don't have just this,
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  Ray. It's not just an abstract
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  relationship that we enter into God and human beings and we got
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  this like abstract relationship between us.
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  It's a real family. It's a familial, intimate,
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  emotionally intimate, generative relationship where we kind of
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  can love each other, kid each other, where affection is real,
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  gentleness is real. And what's part of that family.
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  I like hearing my mom's gentle voice, but I also could hear my
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  dad's voice. Like, let me see if I have this
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  right, You're saying. And my dad, you know, had his,
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  you know, way of making me be logical and so forth.
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  You know, that was a good thing for me.
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  But it wasn't just his voice. It was my mom's voice.
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  And I like both voices and I like them to be together.
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  And I like, you know, being, you know, with my brothers and
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  sisters in that way. We, we were like 5 kids in 6 1/2
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  years of like bugs in a rug. But I mean, I'll tell you this,
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  it was a really intimate thing. And I know when I look at that
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  crushing or when I'm praying to Mary, I'm in the family.
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  I'm at like the dinner table or like, you know, when you're at
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  Christmas time and you're, you know, around the family and
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  everybody's opening a present here and there and everybody's
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  happy and you're sharing, you know, the whole intimacy of of
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  each person's happiness. And not just that, but just
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  going to Mass together and. I think a lot of evangelicals,
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  what you're saying would resonate with them.
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  I know being raised in the evangelical church, I was, you
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  know, there was a sense like we are the community of believers.
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  There's a lot of emphasis on community.
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  You have your pastors, your mentors, your elders, and all of
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  this. I think that the biggest hang up
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  maybe for Protestants are one of the biggest challenges.
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  And I'd love your response on this.
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  And then we're going to get to Guadalupe Lords and Fatima
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  because they're incredibly important and fascinating for us
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  to know about, all people to know about.
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  But I think one of the biggest hang ups is this idea of praying
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  to the dead, because there's this particular prohibition in
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  the Old Testament to prayers to the dead.
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  It's sort of like invoking a kind of witchcraft of sorts.
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  And so this fear that, well, if we ask for Mary prayers, she is
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  dead. Yes, she's in heaven, but she's,
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  you know, dead on earth. And so therefore it's a
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  violation of the Old Testament and God's law to be asking the
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  dead for prayers. That's like a Pagan thing.
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  Yeah, when you're of course, there's no question about it,
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  you know, you should not be speaking with the dead or
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  certainly not in, in a sense, praying to the dead for
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  something where you're not sure of what the disposition of that
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  person is. However, we're very certain of
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  what the disposition of a whole lot of other people are, right.
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  So in other words, we're very, we're very sure that Christ's
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  mother is in heaven. So that's an unquestioned fact.
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  And it's not just dogmatic. But if God selected Mary to be
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  the mother of His Son, all I can tell you is He's.
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  In a good retirement home, one of the best.
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  Exactly. So she's very well taken care of
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  with her son. And as I said, we certainly
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  believe she's a huge part of the economy of salvation by God's
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  will. He wanted her voice, her
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  feminine voice, her motherly protection, her motherly love,
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  that gentleness of spirit, that power of the gentleness and
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  intimacy of the Hail Mary to come into our lives of, you
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  know, of of course, transcendent power.
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  You know what, You don't have to be sappy.
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  We still need a mom and we need a salvific mom and I surely do.
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  And it makes a huge difference in my spirituality by getting
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  back there. So we of course, you know, I I
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  will say, hey, Lila, pray for me.
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  I got this thing coming up. And we, we even just say this as
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  a matter of course. I mean, if you look at all of
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  the graffiti on the walls, like in Rome, for example, you go to
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  where the tomb of Saint Peter is, and it was his bones were
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  initially stored in a wall underneath what we call the
• 18:21
  Scavi today underneath Saint Peters.
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  There's an area there that's Gabi.
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  And you can see on that wall, you know, Saint Peter, pray for
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  me, Saint Paul, pray for me. You can all you know, see all.
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  2000 years ago or 50? Yes, no, this would be like
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  almost at the time wow of Peters death because he was buried
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  outside the Vatican walls because he was obviously
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  considered like a criminal. So he was executed, but he was
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  buried outside of Rome in the area of the Vatican, the the
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  Roman walls in the Vatican area. And we noticed too there that
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  you know, there's like an iconography that's already
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  springing up around that. But this graffiti is almost back
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  to the one of the 1st century for sure, because Peter was, you
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  know, obviously killed around 64 AD, probably crucified upside
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  down in the Circus Maximus. And then the bones were a
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  transfer there. But you clearly pray for me.
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  You know, is there, Peter pray and Paul pray for me.
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  And you know, one of the earliest icons we have is an
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  icon of Mary above Peter and Paul and she is above them
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  pointing down at them. So this, you know, the idea that
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  somehow Marian apparitions, you know, and Marian participation
• 19:49
  in the economy of salvation or Mary's huge part in the
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  communion of Saints, you know, came about by an over exercised
• 19:58
  Church, you know, in the, you know, 11th century or something
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  is completely nonsense. I mean, it's, it's, you know,
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  certainly a part of the church from the very earliest times.
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  And so of course we see images of Mary all over the place and,
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  you know, like scratched images and and so forth all over the
• 20:22
  place in the church. So the idea of being prayed for
• 20:25
  by the Saints, that's a 1st century deal.
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  And so we ought to take note of that.
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  You know, this is only like 30 years after, you know, Jesus
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  maybe died around 32 or maybe 33.
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  Peter 64 is not, you know, 64. I mean 30 years.
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  And already, you know, that is clear that this practice of
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  being prayed for by the Saints is there.
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  And so why would we deny it? You know, this is they were the
• 20:57
  closest ones to Christ. You know, if Peter and Paul
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  themselves before their deaths were sanctioning it, why
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  wouldn't we, you know, the sanctioning the prayers of the
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  of the martyrs? So I mean, this is as ancient as
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  it comes. So that's the first thing.
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  But again, ontologically, what could be wrong with asking for
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  the prayers of somebody who you are certain is in heaven and who
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  you are certain is part of the economy of salvation by God's
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  own design? Why would you say don't do it?
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  I mean, why would you undercut, you know her, you know, like I
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  said, motherly, her familial, you know, presence in your own
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  spiritual life. And by the way, her powerful
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  intercession. We don't worship Mary.
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  We ask for her intercession. We ask for her help because she
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  is part of the economy of salvation.
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  And Mary is very active. I mean, there's just no
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  question. I mean, if you've ever been in
• 21:58
  deliverance ministry, she's always showing.
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  Up well, and these apparitions we're going to get into, Yep,
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  she's showing up in human history.
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  Not just in our prayers but in literal human history.
• 22:11
  We have 3 apparitions we were going to unpack and you're going
• 22:14
  to talk us through Guadalupe Lords and Fatima and we have
• 22:19
  about an hour plus ish. Which one should we start with
• 22:23
  Father? Let's start with what's your
• 22:25
  favorite 1 Guadalupe. Oh, my favorite.
• 22:27
  Well. Maybe that's a dangerous.
• 22:29
  Question. I'll probably go with Fatima,
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  but I'm not going to do that. I'll go with Guadalupe because
• 22:35
  it, it is the oldest one and it's our North American
• 22:40
  appearance. I mean our, our American
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  appearance. And so I'd, I'd probably, you
• 22:45
  know, she's right between North and South America.
• 22:48
  And she's very special here too, because we're obviously in
• 22:51
  Southern California and so she was a hop and a skip down the
• 22:55
  down the continent where she appeared.
• 22:58
  You're going to tell us that. And the set actually is a little
• 23:00
  bit drawing on her for inspiration.
• 23:01
  We've got stars here on set. The blue, her mantle is blue.
• 23:05
  So tell us about Our Lady of Guadalupe, the history there.
• 23:09
  Yeah, well, of course in the 1500s she's, you know, Mary is
• 23:16
  appears to Juan Diego. He's an Indian who's pretty much
• 23:24
  a a very pure hearted Indian, but not a you know, he's he's
• 23:29
  poor. I mean, he's uneducated and, and
• 23:32
  you know, it's typical of what Mary, I mean, Christ comes, you
• 23:36
  know, in poverty and, and Mary likes to appear to people who
• 23:40
  are generally uneducated and poor because of course God
• 23:46
  leaves no one out. And of course, you know, I think
• 23:51
  it's beautiful. I love it.
• 23:52
  He, you know, he loves everybody equally.
• 23:57
  And so he appears to Juan Diego or she appears to Juan Diego and
• 24:04
  she says, why don't you go, I'd like you to go to Bishop
• 24:08
  Zumaraga. I think it's a proper
• 24:11
  pronunciation. I always say Zumaraga.
• 24:14
  But anyway, he goes, you know, over there and says, well,
• 24:19
  Bishop, I was asked by the this lady on the hill, Tepiak Hill, I
• 24:24
  was asked to, you know, to come here and ask you for, to build a
• 24:28
  church up there on the hilt to in her honor.
• 24:33
  And the Bishop goes right. He says, I don't think I'm going
• 24:38
  to do that, but thanks anyway. So of course, Juan Diego, he
• 24:43
  goes back and forth, you know, he had a sick uncle and Mary
• 24:48
  heals here. That's the first miracle of
• 24:50
  Guadalupe heals the the sick uncle.
• 24:53
  But of course, he goes back up and tells her, well, I didn't
• 24:57
  like it. And he wants some kind of proof,
• 25:00
  you know, that if if you really are who you say you, you might
• 25:04
  be or is implied you might be, then he needs proof.
• 25:08
  And she goes, OK, we'll come back here, you know, tomorrow
• 25:12
  and I'll give you the proof you want right here at the hill.
• 25:16
  So his his uncle gets sick. And so Juan Diego tries to avoid
• 25:20
  her, you know, So he goes, he tries to go around the hill in
• 25:24
  order to get a doctor to bring back to his uncle and hopes that
• 25:28
  she won't notice him. But of course she notices him.
• 25:32
  So she kind of meets him in his little short, his little long
• 25:35
  cut, you know, as he's trying to get around her.
• 25:38
  And she says, oh, you know, and you know, Juanito, you know,
• 25:43
  affectionate name, you know, what are you doing?
• 25:46
  And of course, you know, you know, cut.
• 25:49
  So she she says, are you worried about?
• 25:55
  He says, yeah, my uncle is sick and he's going to die and I need
• 25:57
  a doctor and, you know, I, I wanted to come back, but I can't
• 26:01
  do it. She goes, don't worry, just
• 26:03
  trust me, your uncle's going to be just fine.
• 26:07
  So he goes, OK. I of course, as you, I think
• 26:13
  most people know, he goes up to the hill and he sees all of
• 26:17
  these Castilian roses that are there.
• 26:20
  He doesn't know they're Castilian roses, but they are.
• 26:24
  But he's never seen these beautiful flowers before.
• 26:26
  So he, you know, he has a tilma which sort of drapes over the
• 26:30
  front part of in the back part of you, but the part that drapes
• 26:34
  over the front, he gathers all the Castilian roses and he puts
• 26:38
  them in front of him and then he carries them over to the
• 26:46
  cathedral, you know, where the Bishop is with his retinue.
• 26:49
  And I can tell you how many people are there.
• 26:51
  And I'll talk about why that is in a moment.
• 26:53
  But he, the Bishop says, oh, you know, he's gathered there with
• 26:57
  the retinue. And he says, so well, you know,
• 27:01
  what is the sign? And he just drops his tilma and
• 27:05
  all these Castilian roses fall on the ground.
• 27:08
  That did it. Why?
• 27:09
  Why Castilian? What's significant in Spain?
• 27:12
  And he and the Democrat was from Spain.
• 27:15
  So he recognized. That he recognized right away
• 27:17
  and he knew that they were not indigenous to, you know, Mexico.
• 27:22
  So he, he, he, you know, he was wide eyed, but he's even more
• 27:26
  wide eyed because when he drops the, the tilma, they're
• 27:32
  emblazoned on the tilma. And I'll tell you how remarkable
• 27:35
  this is in a moment is a picture of Our Lady and she's looking
• 27:41
  out and you and we'll see that she's actually looking at all of
• 27:46
  them. So, you know, she's got herself,
• 27:50
  you know, placed sort of looking even at Juan Diego, you know,
• 27:55
  showing his tilma. So she's a little far off in the
• 27:58
  corner there, and she's elevated up about 3 feet.
• 28:01
  But anyway, she's there and you just see this beautiful woman.
• 28:08
  She looks like, you know, a native Indian, but her features,
• 28:16
  you know, are truly youthful innocence.
• 28:20
  She's pregnant in the symbolism of her pregnancy, not just that
• 28:25
  ascension of the abdomen, but the, you know, the, you know,
• 28:29
  the symbols and the sash and so forth of pregnancy are there.
• 28:34
  She also, of course, is, is wearing a, a sort of a, a
• 28:38
  native, you know, looking a set of clothes.
• 28:45
  And she's got, you know, not only a typical, you know,
• 28:51
  beautiful clothing, but she's got a, a Cape on her, you know,
• 28:55
  that is filled with stars that we'll talk about in a moment.
• 29:00
  But the long and the short of it is there's this picture
• 29:04
  emblazoned on and, and it's clearly a work of art.
• 29:08
  And you cannot know how much it is a work of art until you know,
• 29:12
  I, I, I explain this, but it's a work of art.
• 29:14
  And everybody there who is European knows.
• 29:18
  But this is the product of a master.
• 29:21
  And so they're just stunned by the, the, both the tilma and by
• 29:28
  the, the, the roses, the Castilian roses.
• 29:32
  And so, of course, as you probably know, the Bishop goes
• 29:35
  ahead and fills this church on Tepiak Hill to the West Virgin
• 29:41
  Mary and puts the tilma there, you know, to as, as a sign of
• 29:47
  the appearance of the Virgin. All there's all this imagery
• 29:51
  that you know, for the native people is well known.
• 29:54
  That's in the in the tilma itself, which we can explain to.
• 29:58
  But the main thing is, is that it becomes a source of
• 30:01
  conversion to Christianity. And even that itself is a
• 30:08
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• 31:04
  You mentioned there's obviously this Bishop and it sounds like
• 31:07
  Juan Diego already had a relationship with the church, He
• 31:10
  was Catholic, but what was the what was going on at the time of
• 31:14
  the apparition in what is now modern day Mexico?
• 31:18
  Well, you know, you had three native religions, the the which,
• 31:25
  you know, actually had integral two of them human sacrifice.
• 31:30
  And of course, the deities were, we would say some of them were
• 31:35
  quite demonic, you know, in terms of their thirst for blood
• 31:40
  and. They so this was happening at
• 31:41
  the time of the apparition. They were doing human sacrifice.
• 31:44
  Oh yes, the Aztecs and other indigenous groups.
• 31:47
  Oh, absolutely. And not only that, but you know
• 31:51
  other things and you know those, you know, the dimensions of the
• 31:57
  almost demonic dimensions of of some of this religious practice
• 32:01
  were very obvious. And there was a an incredible
• 32:07
  turning from these Aztec religions to essentially
• 32:12
  Christianity and, you know, an abandonment of the human
• 32:16
  sacrifice and other kinds of things.
• 32:18
  And that included, you know, you know, offering up one's
• 32:23
  children, you know, for various, you know, fertility or other
• 32:28
  kinds of things, you know, to, you know, food or, you know,
• 32:32
  expiation and things of that nature.
• 32:34
  All of that changed in a relatively short period of time,
• 32:39
  right? The matter of a couple of
• 32:41
  decades. This stuff is erratic.
• 32:44
  I think that's really the true miracle.
• 32:46
  And it is so much at the center of things that this, this image
• 32:52
  itself, the tilma itself, becomes a real source of
• 32:55
  conversion, ongoing conversion, and greatly increasing
• 33:00
  conversion over the decades and centuries.
• 33:04
  So there were some Spanish missionaries in Mexico at the
• 33:08
  time, and the Bishop you mentioned was there.
• 33:11
  What was the sort of political dynamic of some of the first
• 33:15
  Christians who came to the Central America?
• 33:18
  And then how was their work improved, or how did they make
• 33:22
  more? How were they more effective
• 33:24
  after the apparition of Our Lady of?
• 33:27
  I think the image itself, you know, the idea of a almost like
• 33:33
  a malevolent God. You know, a God who really, you
• 33:37
  know his bloodthirsty desires, blood and and a variety of other
• 33:43
  things. You know that image of God just
• 33:47
  by the feminine character of the image of Mary is is transformed
• 33:54
  and of course her words to Juan Diego, a work also and carefully
• 33:58
  recorded. You know, the symbolism in the
• 34:01
  picture itself is also manifesting a sense of love, a
• 34:06
  sense of a gentleness in divinity, things that we take
• 34:11
  for granted as being readers of the New Testament and looking
• 34:15
  at, you know, the father of the prodigal son, for example, as a
• 34:19
  as a an image of who the father is.
• 34:22
  This is not unknown, you know, in Mexico.
• 34:25
  In fact, the image of God is almost in many ways oppositional
• 34:32
  until the father of the prodigal son.
• 34:34
  So Mary and her image just enables this to be transitioned
• 34:41
  very, very quickly. And that is, it's not just
• 34:46
  moving a populace toward Christianity.
• 34:49
  It's moving a populace toward this idea of a divine family
• 34:54
  into which were incorporated, you know, a family which is good
• 34:57
  and affection, just like we were just talking about.
• 35:01
  And more than that, that it actually transitions them from
• 35:08
  much more of a, you know, a God of power and a God of blood
• 35:13
  basically to a God of love and a God who loves the poor.
• 35:20
  And the God who would, you know, see every poor person as being
• 35:25
  of, you know, almost infinite significance being made in the
• 35:30
  image and likeness of him. You know, I mean, obviously
• 35:33
  they're not infinite ontologically, but of infinite
• 35:36
  significance, surely, because we have those transcendental
• 35:40
  desires for perfect truth, love, goodness, beauty and home built
• 35:43
  right into our souls. So you look at that and you can
• 35:46
  see that, you know, there is almost a civilizing influence.
• 35:52
  And Mary always had a civilizing influence on religion, certainly
• 35:58
  in the Middle Ages. You know that idea of, you know,
• 36:02
  the nightly code, yes, but the idea that intrinsic to the
• 36:09
  divine family is Mary and, and how that image of her takes the,
• 36:18
  the idea of God and integrates into it, you know, a kind of
• 36:25
  gentleness. And you know, a love that is not
• 36:28
  just maternal. It's, it's a love that, you
• 36:32
  know, that that is side by side with the loving fraternity of
• 36:37
  God, so that people could see God's fraternity not as
• 36:41
  bloodthirsty, but God's fraternity as generative and
• 36:46
  loving and intimate. So that's pretty much a fact.
• 36:52
  I must say. There are all kinds of other
• 36:53
  things that happen along with it.
• 36:55
  I mean, obviously there were a lot of people who later wanted
• 36:59
  to destroy that image because it was so influential.
• 37:03
  It kept everybody in the faith. And one guy actually put a
• 37:07
  terrorist, put a bomb underneath the image unprotected by glass
• 37:13
  or anything like that. And well, blew out windows and
• 37:18
  there's actually, there was a big, you know, a bronze cross,
• 37:21
  huge bronze cross. And it just pulled that thing
• 37:24
  right back, you know, like a big giant upside down you, you know,
• 37:29
  and it just blew that thing, you know, right backward.
• 37:33
  And you look at that and Mary is completely untie now just being
• 37:39
  a guy who likes physics and who studies explosions with some
• 37:44
  degree of fascination, that's not possible.
• 37:48
  I mean, how could this unprotected tilma being made of
• 37:53
  cactus fabric Let me tell you I could.
• 37:56
  Should I tell just maybe 10 things about this tilma that I.
• 37:59
  Can't wait, I can't wait to be blown away hearing about the 10
• 38:02
  things of the tilma. I have a quick question though.
• 38:04
  She was pregnant, you said in the image, yes.
• 38:07
  And my understanding is this is one of the only, if not the only
• 38:11
  apparition marrying apparition that she's obviously pregnant.
• 38:14
  Is that true? So she doesn't usually appear
• 38:16
  pregnant, Mary, why was it so significant for Mary to appear
• 38:21
  pregnant to Juan Diego at this time in human history?
• 38:24
  And why was it also significant for her to be dressed the way
• 38:29
  she was and presenting ethnically the way that she was?
• 38:32
  Yeah, I would. This is, you know, again, Father
• 38:36
  Spitzer interpretation, right? That's my favorite thing.
• 38:38
  Let's do it. So this is not definitive by the
• 38:41
  church or anything else. But in my view, you know,
• 38:45
  there's of course these fertility cults that are always
• 38:49
  omnipresent, you know, wherever you have, you know, non
• 38:54
  Christian religions and things. Well, of course, Mary just
• 39:00
  replaces all of that, but replaces it in a way that it is
• 39:05
  not a superstitious thing that she, you know, you know, has
• 39:10
  this, you know, dimension. But for me, my personal
• 39:14
  interpretation is that this is the image of a mother who is
• 39:20
  part of a family. And so I believe that this is
• 39:26
  putting the family smack dab in the middle of things and saying
• 39:32
  this family is exceedingly important.
• 39:35
  What's important, You know, of course, you know, having a
• 39:39
  warrior like spirit when you're at war is important and so forth
• 39:44
  and so on. But the family is integral to
• 39:48
  everything. The family is the building block
• 39:52
  of the church. Everybody in the family, you
• 39:56
  know, deserves to be respected as being honored and made in the
• 40:01
  image and likeness of God. So all of these images are going
• 40:07
  forth and Mary wants to say, you know, that who, who's in her
• 40:12
  womb, right? It's Jesus that's the one in the
• 40:16
  womb. And so, of course, Jesus.
• 40:20
  You know, he is there as a little baby in every, you know,
• 40:24
  in the in the image of of the tilma itself.
• 40:28
  Of course, you don't see him inside the womb, but he's there
• 40:32
  in the womb and he's part of this image and he's the savior
• 40:36
  of the world. He is the one that is to come.
• 40:39
  And of course, in these mythologies, there are, you
• 40:43
  know, these mother figures that bring, you know, someone akin to
• 40:49
  the heroic savior into the world.
• 40:52
  Jesus, of course, is a messianic and loving savior who brings his
• 40:57
  self sacrificial act into the world to defeat evil by his self
• 41:03
  sacrificial love so that, you know, part of it has to be
• 41:08
  explained and unraveled. But that pregnancy is really
• 41:13
  important because of course it's it's putting the family in the
• 41:18
  center of things. It's replacing any kind of this
• 41:21
  fertility interpretation of things and really is saying that
• 41:25
  this belongs this, you know, you know, children belong within the
• 41:30
  family. They should all be respected
• 41:31
  within the family. And the person that marries
• 41:34
  carrying is not just anybody. It's Jesus.
• 41:37
  It's not just a heroic savior. It is literally this messianic
• 41:41
  self sacrificial loving savior. And everything about that
• 41:45
  picture exudes love. There's the highest commandment,
• 41:50
  you know, that charitable love, that agape love, that self
• 41:54
  sacrificial love. And if you're looking at those
• 41:57
  eyes, I'll tell you the about that painting in a moment.
• 42:00
  But it exudes love. Well, in the time it, like you
• 42:04
  said, the time it came in to the world she appeared was during a
• 42:07
  time of the sacrifice, human sacrifice, including the
• 42:11
  sacrifice of children. Oh yeah.
• 42:12
  And then you have, I mean, North America, America particularly
• 42:16
  exporting abortion in the last century and this global
• 42:19
  infanticide feticide killing babies in the womb.
• 42:23
  There's now billions of abortions globally over the last
• 42:26
  couple decades. And I just think about, but
• 42:29
  America has been a huge source of that error to spread and
• 42:33
  export abortion as well as committing it here.
• 42:35
  And I just think about her radically countercultural
• 42:38
  message, both for the Aztecs and for the modern day Americans to
• 42:41
  say, here I am the mother of God with God in my womb to show you
• 42:45
  love and to show you the gift that a child is, and this is
• 42:49
  your savior. It is extraordinarily
• 42:52
  countercultural and necessary for us to see that, hear that
• 42:55
  message. Oh yeah.
• 42:56
  In fact, there's two sets of images in her eyes if Doctor
• 43:00
  Jose Astatansman is correct, and one of that's right in the pupil
• 43:04
  area. On the tilma.
• 43:06
  This is in the tilma and if you, you know, there's obviously
• 43:10
  there's an image that's around the iris area.
• 43:14
  You have a, you can get reflections in the cornea and
• 43:18
  the reflection in the cornea is the image of what's happening
• 43:22
  there when Mary is looking at the scene of Juan Diego
• 43:26
  revealing his Tillman the roses. So that is kind of in the in the
• 43:32
  iris area, but in the middle in the pupil area, the corneal
• 43:36
  reflection very minute is of a Mexican family.
• 43:41
  And again, there is the family image and you know, the
• 43:46
  preciousness of the child within the family, the preciousness of
• 43:50
  the family itself. This is at the center of the
• 43:53
  Christian religion. This is at the center of
• 43:56
  Christian love. And that message, you know,
• 43:59
  symbolically, is writ large on the tilma.
• 44:04
  Tell me the 10 things about the tilma that we should know.
• 44:06
  The miraculous things. Too, these are just, and we've
• 44:09
  known these for a long time. First, you know the agave, like
• 44:13
  a cactus fiber tilma. The normal lifespan of that is
• 44:17
  about 30 years. Certainly after 60 years, it'll
• 44:22
  almost be in a state of complete disintegration.
• 44:26
  Here's a tilma that is 500 years old and it's just fine.
• 44:33
  There's hardly any decomposition in it at all.
• 44:37
  Utterly baffling from an organic chemistry point of view.
• 44:41
  This should not happen. This should be long gone 450
• 44:47
  years ago. But it wasn't.
• 44:50
  It's here, and it is almost in pristine condition.
• 44:56
  That's the first thing. The second thing to notice is
• 45:00
  that the Tilmas no. Now some things were added to
• 45:03
  the Tilma later, like the rays that are coming out of Mary and
• 45:07
  the moon with the angels under her feet and so forth.
• 45:10
  So that Revelations 12 images, right, those things were added.
• 45:14
  They painted on it. They painted it.
• 45:16
  Why? Why did they do?
• 45:17
  That they wanted it to make her the woman clothed with the sun.
• 45:21
  From Revelations 12, I believe it is.
• 45:24
  And so then you've got that there for catechetical purposes.
• 45:29
  But you, if you look at where the things are painted on
• 45:32
  shipping, all kinds of, you know, that the, the brilliance
• 45:36
  of the color is completely, you know, diminished.
• 45:39
  And on top of that, you, you really do have decomposition and
• 45:43
  paint, not just chipping and and and flecking and and so forth,
• 45:47
  but you actually have, you know, decomposition of the, of the, of
• 45:53
  the paint, where is where the Blessed Virgin is, right?
• 45:58
  So the original picture, not the ones with the additions, the
• 46:02
  original picture, no decomposition, no diminishment
• 46:06
  in the brilliance of the colors whatsoever.
• 46:08
  So it's like, huh, how do you get this?
• 46:14
  Really? That should also be in a state
• 46:16
  of similar decomposition to the paint, but it is not.
• 46:21
  Again, nobody knows how this can be #3 What's really interesting
• 46:26
  again, is there is this painting that you're looking at of the
• 46:32
  blessed version. Not the additions, but the
• 46:35
  actual. I will call it the image instead
• 46:38
  of a painting, because it's not paint per SE, but it's of no
• 46:41
  known natural pigment. And of course there weren't any
• 46:45
  synthetic pigments at the time of Mary's appearance.
• 46:49
  So what does that mean? Well, nobody can explain it.
• 46:54
  Where did these pigments come from?
• 46:57
  Because they are vastly different from any natural
• 47:00
  pigment. That's the third thing.
• 47:02
  The fourth thing is, is anybody who's an artist knows the first
• 47:07
  thing you have to do is treat a canvas before you paint on it.
• 47:10
  Because if you don't treat a canvas, of course all the
• 47:14
  irregularities and the wrinkles and everything in the canvas,
• 47:17
  it's going to show up and it's going to wreck the picture.
• 47:21
  So you got to do some, you know, preparation of the of the
• 47:24
  canvas. Well, there is no preparation of
• 47:29
  this canvas of any kind. There is no varnishes that were
• 47:33
  used. There was no, you know, you
• 47:36
  know, stretching of the canvas to make it regular and then, you
• 47:41
  know, followed up by varnishings of certain kinds.
• 47:44
  Nothing was used. It's just a plain old agave
• 47:48
  tilma, and it's not even a canvas.
• 47:51
  It's an irregular agave tilma, right?
• 47:54
  Cactus fiber tilma a very much less desirable for painting than
• 48:00
  a canvas. So the main thing is, is it's
• 48:03
  bizarre. There's been no preparation, you
• 48:07
  know, of the of, of the actual Tillman itself for a painting
• 48:12
  that's going to go on there. Boy, it gets much, much more
• 48:16
  interesting. Then of course, you know,
• 48:20
  normally people have under sketching, right?
• 48:22
  They kind of try and paint and not paint, but to sketch various
• 48:27
  kinds of images so they can actually, you know, put the, the
• 48:31
  the paint on to it. But under infrared analysis,
• 48:35
  there is no under sketching of any kind or no, there is where
• 48:40
  the additions were made, but where the actual image of Our
• 48:44
  Lady is. No, no under sketching of any
• 48:47
  kind. Then of course you look at it
• 48:50
  and you go, hey, there's something, you know, interesting
• 48:54
  here. There's no brush strokes.
• 48:57
  Now, as I said, any kind of paintings got some brush
• 49:01
  strokes. If it's painted, it's painted
• 49:04
  generally with a brush, which is the best means of getting the
• 49:07
  paint on there. How would you without any brush
• 49:12
  or you know, tool of application, get that paint so
• 49:17
  perfectly on that tilma without that brush or other, you know,
• 49:22
  tool of application, I do not know, but it's not there and you
• 49:28
  can show that. So infrared analysis, by the
• 49:31
  way, shows the lack of under stitching.
• 49:33
  But what's really bizarre about just, you know, the production
• 49:37
  of the painting itself as you can see, the fullness of Our
• 49:41
  Lady's lips, right? Well, what's causing that
• 49:44
  fullness of her lips is the fact that there are cactus fibers,
• 49:49
  irregular cactus fibers which are protruding from the tilma
• 49:54
  that actually conform to her lips and bring the fullness of
• 49:58
  her lips. And the fullness of her cheek is
• 50:01
  again and the the the depth of the eyes is all brought out by
• 50:06
  irregular, I mean non systematic, non patterned cactus
• 50:13
  fiber protrusions. Now you know.
• 50:17
  Every artist who has looked at this has said this is not
• 50:21
  possible to do humanly. You can't, you know, without.
• 50:27
  Well, it's like those images of like this banana looks like a
• 50:30
  human face, you know, Or like you're like, you see, like this
• 50:33
  apple core looks like, you know, a giraffe or whatever.
• 50:36
  Like there's funny images, but they're always kind of a little
• 50:39
  goofy and they're like, oh, I can kind of see it if I squint,
• 50:42
  but this is way beyond. That way beyond it.
• 50:45
  I mean, it's literally as if the picture were built around the
• 50:48
  irregularities of the protruding cactus fibers.
• 50:52
  Incredible. I mean, who can do this?
• 50:54
  What artists can do this? So most, you know, artists,
• 50:57
  there's a very good Danielle Daniel Castellano has put
• 51:04
  together a website on the image of Our Lady of it's a
• 51:08
  historiographical, very good scholarly historiographical
• 51:11
  website free of charge. And he's got like three of his
• 51:15
  of his episodes out of 14 are devoted to, you know, describing
• 51:20
  this image and interviewing all these painters and who just go,
• 51:25
  I could never do it. I don't know of anybody in the
• 51:27
  contemporary era who could do it, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 51:29
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 51:30
  But it gets even weirder. I mean, I'm not kidding you.
• 51:35
  This, this painting is so irregular, so scientifically
• 51:40
  inexplicable, naturalistically inexplicable.
• 51:42
  OK, so you know, there's a thing called an ophthalmoscope and
• 51:46
  basically an ophthalmoscope, you can actually use it to, to
• 51:51
  discover, you know, the depth of the retina.
• 51:53
  But the main thing that you know you have is when you're using an
• 51:58
  ophthalmoscope, you have various lenses with various focal
• 52:02
  lengths. So once you have the right focal
• 52:05
  length, then you can get a reflection from the from the
• 52:10
  back of the retina all the way to the ophthalmoscope.
• 52:14
  Well, if you apply the ophthalmoscope to Our Lady's
• 52:18
  eyes, what you wind up seeing is actual depth in her retinas.
• 52:25
  But this painting is painted on a flat, opaque surface.
• 52:29
  I mean, again, just being a guy who's interested in optics,
• 52:34
  that's not possible. I do not know.
• 52:37
  But if you take a lens with the wrong with the wrong focal
• 52:41
  length and you put it into the ophthalmoscope right at the
• 52:45
  center where her retina should be reflecting, the greatest
• 52:48
  depth no light will come from will reflect back.
• 52:54
  You put the right focal length, it reflects back just like a
• 52:56
  genuine human. I mean, it's like, how does this
• 53:02
  happen on a painting with a flat, opaque surface answer No
• 53:06
  naturalistic explanation I know of yet.
• 53:10
  That's he gets weirder. I mean, now you've got these
• 53:15
  images that are on like I was just talking about the corneal
• 53:19
  reflections on the image. And then if you, you know, like
• 53:24
  if you look at my eyes and you had proper optical equipment to
• 53:30
  examine my eyes, you would see that my image of you, if you
• 53:36
  know, reflected in my corneas has what's called the Sanson
• 53:39
  Prakinji triple reflection. So you'd have a, a large regular
• 53:45
  right side up image, a smaller as you're going around the
• 53:48
  curvature of the retina, smaller right side up, and then finally
• 53:53
  an upside down small image in the corner.
• 53:56
  You know that that takes on the curvature of the retina
• 54:00
  accordingly. That happens in every human eye.
• 54:03
  There's a triple reflection. Well, there is one image that is
• 54:07
  very clear in her and reflected on her corneas that people have
• 54:12
  seen without any special magnification or, you know,
• 54:15
  computerized enhancement and, and all of that stuff.
• 54:19
  And we thought for a long time it was Juan Diego, but now it
• 54:23
  looks like it was a Spaniard, you know, who was invited to the
• 54:27
  court. He's stroking his beard, you
• 54:29
  know, looking at this image, he's very curious, but it is not
• 54:33
  Juan Diego. I, we, we can see Juan Diego and
• 54:36
  other images. But the main thing is, you know,
• 54:39
  going all the way back to 1954 without special equipment, you
• 54:43
  can see the sense in pre kinchi triple reflection, you know,
• 54:48
  literally reflected in the corneas of Our Lady's eyes.
• 54:53
  Now, who in the 1500s? Let me see now who could have
• 54:58
  done that? Who could have even remotely?
• 55:01
  I mean, you know, I mean, this is like, yes, it is a very large
• 55:04
  image and she does have, you know, sort of, you know, eyes,
• 55:08
  like your eyes are on the sides of your eyes.
• 55:11
  But I mean, reflecting a triple reflection, nobody knew about
• 55:17
  that. And and in any case, it it the
• 55:20
  triple reflection comes, it's exactly what it should be to
• 55:26
  reflect the curvature of the cornea.
• 55:29
  And all you can do is just go impossible at this be done even
• 55:36
  today with computer calculations.
• 55:39
  No way. So I mean to to to duplicate
• 55:43
  this. Oh, but it gets even weirder.
• 55:46
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• 56:51
  Oh, but it gets even weirder now.
• 56:54
  There's this, a fellow Dr. Jose Ostetonsman, and he was a
• 57:00
  basically, you know, I think he did his doctorate in optics and
• 57:05
  for NASA, I think it was Columbia anyway.
• 57:09
  So, no, it's Cornell at Cornell and he did his PhD there.
• 57:13
  But anyway, you know, he used to do computer enhancements of, you
• 57:18
  know, you know, interstellar and, and, and long distant
• 57:22
  objects in outer space. And one of the techniques you
• 57:25
  can use to amplify images or parts of images so that you can
• 57:31
  get a really, you know, amplified or enhanced image is
• 57:35
  you can pixelate it, right? So let's say you break it up
• 57:39
  into 100,000 little dots. Now you can actually measure the
• 57:45
  light reflected in those 100,000 dots, right?
• 57:48
  So you know, proportionately, fractionally, right, you know,
• 57:53
  how much light is in this little pixelated piece compared with
• 57:57
  this pixelated piece, compared with this little pixelated piece
• 58:00
  over 100,000 pixelated pieces or whatever it is.
• 58:04
  Then all you need to do is multiply that by 2500.
• 58:09
  Now of course you need a computer to do this.
• 58:11
  And then you just so the light reflection magnification that
• 58:18
  you know, if Jose, I say Thompson, I believe he did a
• 58:22
  2500 times amplification. So he really expanded that.
• 58:27
  And so you can see, you know, as you put each one of those pieces
• 58:32
  in place, what becomes very, very apparent is that there is
• 58:38
  not just an image of this one Spaniard stroking his beard.
• 58:42
  You can definitely see Archbishop Zumaraga.
• 58:48
  You can see him, you know, kind of leaning back.
• 58:52
  You know, he's got a high forehead.
• 58:54
  He's got, you know, the Franciscan robe on and so forth
• 58:57
  and so on. You can see him very clearly.
• 59:00
  You can see his translator nearby who's kind of whispering
• 59:04
  something into his ears. You can see a, a, a native who's
• 59:10
  sitting down there, you know, and looking at the whole scene,
• 59:14
  you see a native as well on the other side, maybe a servant girl
• 59:20
  or something who is standing there as well.
• 59:23
  And you see Juan Diego clear as a bell with his tilma, you know,
• 59:28
  extending outward. And of course, with the roses
• 59:32
  dropping, you can see this whole scene that's there.
• 59:36
  Now, of course some people say, you know, you expand that thing
• 59:40
  by 2500 times, it's just cloud gazing.
• 59:44
  You know, you can make anything out of you know it that you want
• 59:48
  to make out of it. Not so fast.
• 59:52
  What Auste Tunsman did was he basically showed, OK, there's
• 59:58
  going to be real differences between the left cornea and the
• 1:00:03
  right cornea. So you would have to know the
• 1:00:06
  curvature of that cornea and the exact tilt of the Blessed
• 1:00:11
  Virgins. Head, because that would make
• 1:00:13
  angular differentiation, you know, between the two eyes and
• 1:00:17
  so forth. So Ostay Tansman gets a bunch of
• 1:00:20
  algorithms together right where he can actually take an image
• 1:00:25
  and finally transpose it. So you, if you get the curvature
• 1:00:29
  right in both eyes, you got the tilt of her head.
• 1:00:32
  Remember she's elevated up there about 3 feet looking down.
• 1:00:36
  So there's a tilt going forward to the head.
• 1:00:38
  So Ostay Tansman takes all of those differences and calculate
• 1:00:43
  all the algorithms in order to make a transposition.
• 1:00:47
  Now you know, obviously you're going to catch some stuff in the
• 1:00:51
  left eye, right at the at this end of the left eye, you're
• 1:00:55
  going to see some stuff that the right extreme corner and of the
• 1:01:01
  right cornea can't see and vice versa.
• 1:01:04
  So you'll get some new stuff, you know, that's there.
• 1:01:07
  But if you you know both eyes now, if you look at that and you
• 1:01:11
  put in all of the angular differentiation, all the optical
• 1:01:15
  differentiation, all the curvature differentiation, you
• 1:01:18
  put them all into the algorithms.
• 1:01:20
  You can then look at and compare, almost like you're
• 1:01:24
  transposing the image from the left eye and it will fit like a
• 1:01:30
  glove right on to the right cornea of the blessed version.
• 1:01:36
  Insane. You know, I have AI can send
• 1:01:39
  this to you if you want to post it on your, you know, website,
• 1:01:44
  but I can send you that transposition.
• 1:01:46
  You know, 'cause Asti Transman provided the video of it.
• 1:01:50
  So you can actually see the left one going over to the right one.
• 1:01:55
  And as it fits on there, wow, it enhances, you know, the the
• 1:02:01
  image clarity much, much more. I mean, you know, there's no way
• 1:02:06
  this is cloud gazing. And by the way, because all of
• 1:02:09
  the irregularities in the eyes, right, you'd think there'd be
• 1:02:13
  different irregularities and clouds giving between the left
• 1:02:16
  cornea and the right cornea. Well, there aren't.
• 1:02:18
  Those irregularities turn out to be regularities.
• 1:02:21
  Send it to me, father, sister, we'll put it in.
• 1:02:23
  We'll put it in the locals community that we have and also
• 1:02:26
  the website of the other. There was another website that
• 1:02:29
  did Castellano. Daniel Castellano's website will
• 1:02:31
  include include that too over at Locals.
• 1:02:34
  Oh, yeah. Well, anyway, to make a Long
• 1:02:35
  story short, I mean, I mean, it is so clear what you're seeing
• 1:02:40
  is the Blessed Virgin Mary. She is producing an image of
• 1:02:44
  herself on the tilma of her. Remember, she's not behind Juan
• 1:02:50
  Diego, she's in front of him. So she's looking at the whole
• 1:02:54
  group. Juan Diego is kind of in the
• 1:02:57
  middle showing his a tilma and she's looking at him from the
• 1:03:01
  side showing the tilma to the rest of the group.
• 1:03:04
  So you look at that and I'm telling you she's elevated about
• 1:03:08
  3 feet up there shirt had a tilted slightly to the left.
• 1:03:12
  You can see the forward tilt of, you know, that's there and you
• 1:03:16
  put all of this stuff together and I'm not kidding you, it is
• 1:03:19
  there, right? Those images are there.
• 1:03:22
  You can see what Zumaraga, Zumaraga looks like.
• 1:03:24
  And by the way, you can take that 11 where he's got the left
• 1:03:28
  cornea superimpose on the right cornea.
• 1:03:30
  You can take that double image and you can look at a portrait
• 1:03:34
  that was painted as Zumaraga. Several of them.
• 1:03:36
  It's him with the high forehead and with the hairdo not there,
• 1:03:40
  you know, the Franciscan Shamazel, the Franciscan beard
• 1:03:44
  and and Franciscan garments and so forth.
• 1:03:48
  So you can see this very clearly.
• 1:03:50
  It's Juan Diego, all right. You can tell he's got the tilma
• 1:03:53
  on. And of course you can see the
• 1:03:57
  Spaniard. Oh, it's clear as day.
• 1:03:59
  Who's stroking his beard? The native girl, The native man,
• 1:04:05
  like a like almost an Indian native who's sitting down and
• 1:04:09
  crossing his legs. You can see the entire scene
• 1:04:12
  very, very clearly there along with the translator and so
• 1:04:16
  forth. So it's like it just comes
• 1:04:19
  alive. And all I can tell you is no
• 1:04:22
  possible way do we have the technology right now to do, you
• 1:04:26
  know, a complete perfect corneal reflected image that, you know,
• 1:04:31
  reflects the Sanson Prichenji triple refle reflection plus the
• 1:04:35
  actual main imaging from the left to the right corneas.
• 1:04:40
  I mean, it's spectacular. And so all I can say is you
• 1:04:45
  don't think this image is miraculous.
• 1:04:47
  I'll tell you if the more you look at this and the more I read
• 1:04:52
  that book by Austin Tansman too, he's very humble.
• 1:04:55
  And all I would say is it's a miracle.
• 1:04:59
  It's a miracle. Did we do all 10, Father
• 1:05:02
  Spitzer? Yeah.
• 1:05:03
  Well done. Well done.
• 1:05:04
  Wow, that was a blast. That was amazing.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah, well, I'll leave it at that.
• 1:05:10
  But you know, the conversions continue and the healing
• 1:05:13
  miracles around her continue. And you know, even during the
• 1:05:18
  time of the truck, the so-called troubles right of the Cristeros,
• 1:05:22
  you know, there she was at the center of everything.
• 1:05:26
  And of course, she's the mother of Christ, the mother of us, the
• 1:05:30
  mother of America, and she is mother par excellence, so to say
• 1:05:35
  the least. And so, you know, and just the
• 1:05:39
  beauty of her face, you know, I used to be able to see a quite
• 1:05:44
  intoxicating, quite intoxicating.
• 1:05:48
  And and it was there for these native peoples.
• 1:05:51
  They looked at that and just said wow, you know?
• 1:05:54
  How many years after Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to Juan Diego
• 1:05:58
  did they cease doing human sacrifice?
• 1:06:02
  It didn't take. Long I think it gave such
• 1:06:06
  credibility to the church and the origin, the image of the
• 1:06:10
  image story gave such credibility to the church.
• 1:06:14
  This was way before they discovered the miraculous nature
• 1:06:17
  of the tilma. It was maybe like 2 decades and
• 1:06:24
  it's done with. Wow.
• 1:06:25
  Yeah. I mean, it was absolutely done
• 1:06:27
  with. So.
• 1:06:28
  Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for America.
• 1:06:31
  We have our own human sacrifice. We need to.
• 1:06:34
  Yes, we. And here.
• 1:06:36
  Yes, dear Lord and dear Mary, please help us.
• 1:06:40
  And I agree with that completely.
• 1:06:42
  She If anyone can turn this Holocaust around, it is she.
• 1:06:49
  Where should we go next, Lords or Fatima?
• 1:06:52
  I'll take Fatima because I think.
• 1:06:55
  She has a role to play in helping the West.
• 1:06:59
  Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention one thing about the
• 1:07:02
  stars on the Cope. You know, the mantle of Our
• 1:07:05
  Lady. You know, I'll just make it real
• 1:07:09
  quick because I know we should get to Phantom.
• 1:07:10
  But the main thing is that on that mantle, if you kind of, you
• 1:07:14
  know, look at the star placement and then you sort of, you know,
• 1:07:18
  use computers again to make the, the, the image straight so that
• 1:07:25
  it looks like it's, you know, got a, you know, an X and AY
• 1:07:28
  axis and so forth and so on. If you look at the star
• 1:07:32
  placement it it would be the same as it was on the very day
• 1:07:37
  and year of Our Lady's appearance to Juan Diego.
• 1:07:41
  It would be the southern sky, but it's not the southern sky as
• 1:07:45
  we would see it looking out. It's like the axis is is turned
• 1:07:51
  90° and that is the effect that would happen if the person was
• 1:07:58
  outside of our Galaxy as it were looking down from this outer
• 1:08:04
  perspective toward what's happening there.
• 1:08:08
  That's the stars that are surrounding her.
• 1:08:12
  It's the southern sky from the opposite, you know from outward
• 1:08:16
  looking in, do you think? God employed an Angel.
• 1:08:22
  An Angel to to. To paint the toma for us.
• 1:08:25
  Well, I think Mary did it. Oh, Mary herself painted.
• 1:08:28
  I think she just basically. She just dreamed.
• 1:08:31
  It up she just poof, she made it happen according to her own good
• 1:08:38
  supernatural power, which she has manifested in many ways.
• 1:08:43
  But I wanted to get that cosmological dimension in there
• 1:08:47
  because this Fatima miracle this is.
• 1:08:52
  All right, bring it to us, Father.
• 1:08:54
  Let's do it. OK, time.
• 1:08:56
  And place. OK, first we're dealing with,
• 1:08:59
  well, I'll start maybe with July 17th, 1917.
• 1:09:06
  So we'll start there just for a second.
• 1:09:08
  We're in the middle of World War One.
• 1:09:10
  Remember this bloodletting, horrible war.
• 1:09:13
  And, and so Mary comes to these three children in Portugal and
• 1:09:21
  she they're, they're basically shepherd children, They're
• 1:09:23
  peasants, they're uneducated. Lucia, of course, is, you know,
• 1:09:28
  the kind of the main, the younger main kind of character
• 1:09:32
  in it just into of course, has a role and Francisca has a role.
• 1:09:36
  But the main thing though, to, to see is that there are a lot
• 1:09:41
  of things, you know, that happened on July the 12th.
• 1:09:44
  One thing to keep your your eye on is the fact that she says to
• 1:09:49
  all three of them, something important is going to happen.
• 1:09:54
  There is going to be a miracle of real, you know, supernatural
• 1:09:59
  proportions that will be very noticeable that will happen.
• 1:10:04
  And then of course, she goes on to describe what's going to
• 1:10:07
  happen on October 17th, 1917, and she says it's going to
• 1:10:13
  happen at when the sun is at its high point in the sky.
• 1:10:18
  Now normally that would be noon when the sun is at the high
• 1:10:23
  point. But the Portuguese government
• 1:10:25
  mandated that because, you know, Portuguese soldiers were
• 1:10:28
  fighting in France, that all the clocks in Portugal in sympathy
• 1:10:33
  with their soldiers in France should be moved to French a
• 1:10:36
  time. So it was moved to 2O clock.
• 1:10:40
  So essentially the high point in the sky is not 12, it's 2.
• 1:10:44
  So OK, so this is July 12th. Then the, you know, Lucy
• 1:10:51
  announces this and the word goes out like wildfire.
• 1:10:54
  You know, she's had an appearance of the Blessed Virgin
• 1:10:56
  Mary and this is going to happen and so forth and so on.
• 1:10:59
  So the authorities arrest her basically.
• 1:11:04
  How old is? She 7 or I think just seven
• 1:11:07
  years old, so so. Quick back up here.
• 1:11:10
  So these are shepherd effectively peasant children
• 1:11:13
  like you said. And they she gets arrested
• 1:11:16
  because the authorities found out that there's something kooky
• 1:11:19
  going on and we just want to put a stop to it.
• 1:11:21
  Put a stop to it. Because it might spread
• 1:11:24
  superstition among the people. Was this a Catholic authority?
• 1:11:27
  No, it was just basically Portuguese secular authority, a
• 1:11:31
  police authority. Why did they care so much
• 1:11:34
  putting to? It was generating religious
• 1:11:37
  interests and it was in the interests of the secular
• 1:11:40
  authorities to make sure right, that she was shut up because
• 1:11:45
  they didn't want any more cultivation of religious, you
• 1:11:50
  know, devotion because. It might be a threat to their
• 1:11:53
  power if the peasants are too religiously motivated.
• 1:11:57
  They might not be as in line with whatever the secularist in
• 1:12:01
  power wanted them to do. Exactly.
• 1:12:03
  And so to make a Long story short, what winds up happening
• 1:12:07
  is she had mentioned to somebody, well Les Virgin Berry
• 1:12:11
  told us, come back on August 17th.
• 1:12:13
  So they thought, no, you're not. So they arrest her and of
• 1:12:17
  course, but then she zeroes in and comes back.
• 1:12:20
  I think it might have been the 19th or the 20th.
• 1:12:22
  Don't quote me on those dates, but she does go back to the
• 1:12:25
  grotto again and has the, you know, the Blessed Virgin does
• 1:12:30
  appear to her and says, I'm telling you, October 17th is
• 1:12:35
  going to happen. So get ready.
• 1:12:38
  I'm sorry, October 13th, if I said 17th, I meant October 13th,
• 1:12:43
  1917. But anyway, so on October 13th,
• 1:12:45
  so she says once again, I'm going to, it's going to happen.
• 1:12:49
  So come back on September the 13th.
• 1:12:51
  So she comes back on September the 13th.
• 1:12:55
  And sure enough, the Blessed Virgin Mary says 1/3 time, get
• 1:12:59
  ready. October 13th, you know, sun is
• 1:13:02
  at its high, say point in the sky.
• 1:13:05
  It's going to happen again. So how many thirteens were there
• 1:13:07
  before the miracle of the? Second, the first one is July
• 1:13:11
  13th, then there were supposed to be one for August 13th, but
• 1:13:14
  it wound up being whatever it was the 19th by the time she
• 1:13:16
  could get out there then. So Our Lady waited for her.
• 1:13:20
  I waited for her absolutely, as it were.
• 1:13:23
  And then September the 13th, it happens.
• 1:13:26
  And then of course, October the 13th rolls around.
• 1:13:30
  Well, by that time the word had gotten out and people were
• 1:13:35
  flowing into the grotto. And I mean, they were not just,
• 1:13:39
  I mean, and it's like 40,000 people.
• 1:13:43
  I mean, we're talking about a lot of witnesses here.
• 1:13:47
  And there were people of every stripe, right?
• 1:13:50
  There were scientists that were there, medical doctors that were
• 1:13:53
  there. There were lawyers that were
• 1:13:55
  there. There were investigative
• 1:13:57
  reporters that were there. In fact, the head of the Masonic
• 1:14:01
  newspaper had been saying, well, we're finally going to get some
• 1:14:06
  proof of the fraud of the Catholic Church in this nonsense
• 1:14:11
  about the Blessed Virgin Mary. I'm going out there myself to
• 1:14:16
  disprove this so you can be sure that I'll be publishing the day
• 1:14:22
  after of October 13th. I'm going to be publishing the
• 1:14:26
  results here of what didn't happen at the grotto.
• 1:14:31
  So of course he goes out there along with the other 40,000.
• 1:14:35
  Some people estimate the crowd to be 50 or 60,000, but I'm
• 1:14:39
  going to take just a lower estimate just fine. 40,000 is
• 1:14:43
  more than enough witnesses. So it's been raining all day and
• 1:14:47
  people are really interested. They're looking for a reason to
• 1:14:51
  believe. And so they go out there and
• 1:14:54
  then, as I said, they stand out there in the rain.
• 1:14:58
  And this will be important in a moment.
• 1:15:00
  And everything is soaking wet on the ground.
• 1:15:02
  The clothes are soaking wet of the people that are there.
• 1:15:06
  And of course, Lucy comes out on the shoulders of a big man, and
• 1:15:12
  she's kind of like steering him and, you know, you know, riding
• 1:15:16
  him out there. And so she gets out there and
• 1:15:21
  right around, you know, what would have been the equivalent
• 1:15:25
  of about, I guess, 1:30-ish or so.
• 1:15:28
  And then finally, as you know, things are moving toward 2:00,
• 1:15:33
  you know, the apex of the high point of the sun.
• 1:15:36
  All of a sudden, Lucy goes look at the sun.
• 1:15:41
  And of course, right at that moment, all of a sudden you can
• 1:15:45
  see that the sun, it looks like the sun has turned, you know,
• 1:15:50
  like this beautiful translucent color with a silver rim around
• 1:15:56
  it. And it's looks like it's, it's
• 1:15:59
  almost rotating on its own axis, you know, and, and just spinning
• 1:16:04
  there, you know, in this translucent, beautiful silver
• 1:16:07
  rim. And of course, everybody is
• 1:16:10
  looking up at this. This will be very important
• 1:16:13
  momentarily. But it's not damaging their
• 1:16:15
  eyes. They're able.
• 1:16:16
  To behave damaging their retinas?
• 1:16:18
  Unbelievable. You can't.
• 1:16:20
  There are photographs like, I mean, dozens and dozens of
• 1:16:24
  photographs of everybody looking up there at the sun.
• 1:16:28
  They're all riveted on this thing and no one.
• 1:16:31
  And it's still raining. It's, is it still raining?
• 1:16:34
  I'm sorry. The rain stops and then the sun
• 1:16:37
  is exposed. And then of course, it starts
• 1:16:41
  spinning just like that. And then all of a sudden it it,
• 1:16:44
  it starts kind of dance and they call it dancing.
• 1:16:47
  The sun starts dancing in the sky.
• 1:16:48
  It's going forward and backward and forward and backward, almost
• 1:16:51
  like it's, it's moving, you know, forward and backward and
• 1:16:55
  people are just awed by what's going on.
• 1:16:58
  And then all of a sudden it's almost like it, it begins to to
• 1:17:03
  refract, you know, all kinds of colors of every kind.
• 1:17:08
  So like big red rays will be coming out and then blue rays
• 1:17:11
  will be coming out. But what's so interesting is you
• 1:17:14
  can see that these rays are basically turning the ground and
• 1:17:19
  people's faces blue or yellow or orange or red, whatever the ray
• 1:17:24
  is that's near by them. And so then that, you know,
• 1:17:29
  again, totally inexplicable, then the sun literally detaches
• 1:17:36
  from the place where it is, and it comes roaring in to the
• 1:17:42
  grotto. And when it comes roaring into
• 1:17:44
  the grotto, everybody is down, you know, either on their faces,
• 1:17:48
  on their knees. You get pictures all over the
• 1:17:50
  place of people just falling down simultaneously, you know,
• 1:17:55
  and of course, repenting of their sins right then and there.
• 1:17:59
  In fact, there's some humorous anecdotes of people confessing
• 1:18:03
  their sins in front of everybody.
• 1:18:05
  But the main thing is, is that this happens and everybody sees
• 1:18:10
  it. And when the sun is approaching
• 1:18:12
  them, it's drying, drying off all of the people's clothes and
• 1:18:19
  drying off the ground, right? I mean, a mass hallucination
• 1:18:23
  cannot do this. A mass hallucination cannot
• 1:18:26
  prevent retinal, you know, you know, decomposition from looking
• 1:18:32
  at the sun for 10 full minutes. I mean, either just your, your
• 1:18:37
  retinas are dead on arrival. I mean, so they're all kinds of
• 1:18:41
  validatable ways of verifying that this actually did happen as
• 1:18:46
  it was described by these 40,000.
• 1:18:48
  By the way, no witnesses are saying that it didn't happen.
• 1:18:51
  And if in case anybody's thinking that there's mass
• 1:18:54
  hallucination going on here, I just remember for a second year
• 1:18:59
  that they're people who are 10 minutes, I mean, 10 miles away.
• 1:19:03
  Just exactly how did the Minsk hallucination communicate to the
• 1:19:08
  people there that were 10 miles away who saw the same?
• 1:19:11
  Thing so people who were not at the grotto saw the same thing.
• 1:19:13
  Absolutely. Who are within about it.
• 1:19:15
  Some people say within a 20 mile perimeter, some wow for sure.
• 1:19:19
  A 10 mile perimeter just used the.
• 1:19:21
  How many of these 40,000 people were interviewed or wrote down
• 1:19:24
  their first hand accounts of what happened?
• 1:19:26
  There were a lot of them, a lot of those, you know, a lot of
• 1:19:31
  them dispersed, but a lot of them were tracked down.
• 1:19:34
  People, you know, definitely got interviews.
• 1:19:37
  There were a huge that the database on the Fatima interview
• 1:19:41
  is very large indeed. And many of them convert.
• 1:19:45
  I mean that the Masonist, the guy, the Mason guy.
• 1:19:48
  Great question, SO. What did they think?
• 1:19:51
  About that is in the front page of this is the main Mason, and
• 1:19:56
  that is to say, because the Masons are so popular in
• 1:19:59
  Portugal at that time, it was one of the major newspapers, but
• 1:20:04
  it was the main Mason newspaper, which is a major newspaper in
• 1:20:08
  Portugal. What's in the front headline?
• 1:20:10
  The Sun dances at Fatima. The guy literally converted,
• 1:20:15
  turned right around and said, I cannot explain this well.
• 1:20:20
  As far as I know he converted all the way to Catholicism, but
• 1:20:24
  I certainly know. He absolutely admitted yes, the
• 1:20:28
  sun danced in the sky at Fatima. I saw it.
• 1:20:32
  There's no denying it. And I know he had a definite
• 1:20:36
  change of heart. Doctor Father Stanley Yaki is
• 1:20:41
  also a first rate physicist by the way, JAKI and he is wrote a
• 1:20:48
  book called the Sun the miracle of the sun at Fatima.
• 1:20:52
  I believe it was called or maybe the Sun at Fatima.
• 1:20:55
  I forget what it is, but if you just look up Stanley Yaki, just
• 1:21:00
  take a look at that book. Also, I've got three other books
• 1:21:04
  I can recommend where there's photographs and various things
• 1:21:07
  that you can see of the people all looking at the sun and so
• 1:21:10
  forth. But anyway, then the sun comes
• 1:21:12
  all the way down, dries everybody's clothes in the
• 1:21:14
  ground, zooms back up into place circles a few more times and
• 1:21:18
  stops. Now you think, wow, call up all
• 1:21:22
  the other observatories around the world.
• 1:21:25
  This is it must have, you know, done something, you know, to
• 1:21:30
  everybody should have seen it. Well, call up.
• 1:21:34
  They did it right away. All the astronomers who were
• 1:21:36
  there call up the observatories all around the world.
• 1:21:38
  No, nothing special has happened.
• 1:21:42
  So how can you explain this then?
• 1:21:44
  If it wasn't a solar phenomenon, what was it?
• 1:21:48
  Clearly it has to be an atmospheric phenomenon.
• 1:21:52
  Now, a lot of physicists have studied this and I'll get you
• 1:21:54
  some of the books of those physicists.
• 1:21:56
  But the main thing to remember is I'm going to just get
• 1:21:59
  there's, I've written a whole this, I wrote a new book with
• 1:22:03
  Ignatius, Christ, Science and Reason.
• 1:22:05
  Just go to chapter 5 of that book, just came out two weeks
• 1:22:11
  ago. Just go to chapter 5 of that
• 1:22:13
  book and you'll see all the various causes people have tried
• 1:22:17
  to explain. It doesn't even come close.
• 1:22:20
  There's only one 'cause that can possibly explain it.
• 1:22:23
  There has to be a gigantic lens that is positioned, you know,
• 1:22:29
  somewhere maybe about 20 miles above the grotto.
• 1:22:34
  But this gigantic lens, you know, would almost have to be
• 1:22:37
  like a mile in diameter, right? And, and of course, it would
• 1:22:41
  have to have everything in place so that when it spins on its own
• 1:22:46
  access, it could refractice, lighten and, you know, specific
• 1:22:49
  colors would emerge. And then it would have to, you
• 1:22:53
  know, be able to detach from this place, you know, maybe 10,
• 1:22:56
  maybe 20 miles from the grotto and then zoom down to within
• 1:23:02
  half a mile. Aliens.
• 1:23:04
  Right. Aliens.
• 1:23:05
  Yeah, that's what it was, except I guess the aliens were talking
• 1:23:10
  to Lucy, too. The aliens.
• 1:23:11
  Must love Mama Mary because they're doing her bidding right
• 1:23:14
  now. That's right, because they were
• 1:23:15
  identifying themselves as Mary. So anyway, the long and the
• 1:23:19
  short of The thing is, is, is that the lens would have to
• 1:23:23
  detach, come right down, dry everything off and zoom back
• 1:23:27
  into the skies. So Stanley Yaki, he's a very
• 1:23:31
  creative physicist. He says, OK, he says, now, if
• 1:23:35
  that happened and it was a supernatural lens that was up
• 1:23:39
  there, that would be a miracle. And then he says, could this
• 1:23:42
  possibly be explained by a natural phenomenon?
• 1:23:46
  So we pieces together, well, suppose there's ice crystals up
• 1:23:49
  there. And suppose you have a very
• 1:23:51
  unique boomerang configuration of these winds, you know,
• 1:23:55
  blowing forward and backward. Suppose you have this.
• 1:23:57
  And ice crystals where? Oh, that are blowing in the sky.
• 1:24:01
  So that's the ice crystals that are inside that are refracting
• 1:24:04
  them. So he's trying to build the case
• 1:24:07
  for the naturalist. He just says, let me do it for
• 1:24:09
  you, right? You know, maybe you could get a
• 1:24:12
  big, huge ice lens, you know, that's out there and it was of
• 1:24:16
  natural configuration. Now the odds of an Iceland's
• 1:24:19
  like that forming by pure natural happenstance are like 10
• 1:24:26
  to the 60th or something, 70th to one against now 10 to the
• 1:24:32
  70th. That's a really big number.
• 1:24:35
  That's like a trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion
• 1:24:38
  trillion trillion trillion trillion.
• 1:24:40
  That's a miracle if that happened.
• 1:24:42
  Not only that, but imagine this, Remember Lucy predicted this
• 1:24:46
  going to happen on October 13th. At this precise time, in this
• 1:24:50
  precise place, she predicted it three times.
• 1:24:52
  No question about everybody heard it.
• 1:24:54
  They knew where to go, 40,000 people knew where to go.
• 1:24:58
  So that the main thing is what are the odds that this totally
• 1:25:03
  truly, you know, against odds, all odds phenomena would happen
• 1:25:07
  at all, let alone happen on October 13th at 2:00 PM when the
• 1:25:13
  sun is at its apex and exactly the place where Mary had said
• 1:25:17
  that it would happen. That is about 10 to about the
• 1:25:22
  1300 to 1, which is 1300 like a trillion trillion.
• 1:25:28
  Trillion, trillion. This number with all of the
• 1:25:30
  zeros right now, right here. If it would fit, it won't fit
• 1:25:34
  it. Won't fit.
• 1:25:34
  It's about the same as a as a monkey typing the first two acts
• 1:25:39
  of Macbeth by random tapping of the keys perfectly in a single
• 1:25:43
  try. I'm not kidding you.
• 1:25:44
  That's that's the odds of this happening, which means, as you
• 1:25:47
  pointed out, it's a miracle. So I mean, it's definitely
• 1:25:51
  whatever way you want to do. Like I said, I'll build the
• 1:25:54
  natural case for you. Here's the one way it can really
• 1:25:57
  happen. I'll make it all work and it's
• 1:26:00
  still a miracle. What was the message?
• 1:26:02
  What was the message of Our Lady of Fatima?
• 1:26:05
  Well, it was a kind of a three fold message.
• 1:26:08
  The first one is Our Lady wanted.
• 1:26:10
  She had these three secrets. And one of the secrets was she
• 1:26:15
  showed the children a vision of hell.
• 1:26:18
  And you might think to yourself, well, Gee, why would Mary show
• 1:26:21
  the children a vision of hell? Because she wants the she wanted
• 1:26:26
  these children to know that, you know, there is your spiritual
• 1:26:31
  enemy is out there and he's a very crafty spiritual enemy.
• 1:26:38
  And he seduces, seduces you into thinking that you'll be much
• 1:26:42
  happier if you don't follow the teaching of Jesus or Son than if
• 1:26:47
  you did follow the teaching of Jesus.
• 1:26:50
  And so of course that spiritual enemy wants to seduce you where,
• 1:26:55
  Oh, he'll say you get lots of power and domination and all
• 1:27:00
  kinds of narcissistic sensorial pleasures.
• 1:27:03
  You're just going to be filled with every kind of thing.
• 1:27:06
  It's going to be so great down there in hell.
• 1:27:10
  But of course, the, the, the main thing is Mary says here is
• 1:27:15
  what's happening in hell and she shows these children this
• 1:27:19
  vision. And you and I think the fact
• 1:27:22
  that the children get the vision right who are not overly
• 1:27:27
  inclined to be thinking about hell along those lines, they
• 1:27:31
  come back and say, well, world, you should be aware of this.
• 1:27:37
  By the way, God doesn't have to send anybody to hell.
• 1:27:40
  We choose hell just fine by believing all of the seductions
• 1:27:45
  and lies and deceits of our spiritual enemy, the evil
• 1:27:49
  spirit. And the point, of course, is
• 1:27:51
  Portugal is going secular. Portugal is believing that you
• 1:27:56
  know the Kool-aid that is being served up right now in our
• 1:28:00
  culture. All the sex you want, just think
• 1:28:03
  of it, it's going to be 1 big party.
• 1:28:07
  So sexual hedonism. Was exactly.
• 1:28:10
  Was one of the messages of the time that the secularists were
• 1:28:13
  pushing and it was directly opposed to the Christian value.
• 1:28:16
  Also the. Power seduction too, you know,
• 1:28:19
  Hey, you're the smartest, you're the brightest.
• 1:28:21
  You deserve, you owe it to yourself, all the power you can
• 1:28:26
  get at whatever expense you have to do it.
• 1:28:28
  And by the way, bust up all the hope of the little people here,
• 1:28:32
  you know, by by taking a misusing science to say this or
• 1:28:37
  that. Trust me, you'll be dominating,
• 1:28:40
  leading them around by the nose soon.
• 1:28:43
  Isn't it great that all these seculars, they turn out to be
• 1:28:47
  the new gods themselves, right? This was before the Second World
• 1:28:51
  War, right? This is.
• 1:28:52
  For right in. The middle of the First World
• 1:28:54
  War or toward the end there was one of her messages was about
• 1:28:56
  Russia's errors. Why is that significant?
• 1:28:59
  This is the beginning of the 20th century, bloodiest century
• 1:29:02
  in human history. And of course, you know, of
• 1:29:04
  course, the 1917 Russian Revolution, right?
• 1:29:08
  And the whole idea is it's not just World War One that's going
• 1:29:13
  on. Russia's going to have this
• 1:29:14
  revolution. And at the time you look at this
• 1:29:17
  little party called the Bolsheviks and you think this is
• 1:29:20
  this is not going to be a big deal.
• 1:29:21
  But Mary's prediction is this is going to be a horrible secular
• 1:29:26
  society. And when she's saying that
• 1:29:30
  it'll, it's worse than anyone can imagine that it will be.
• 1:29:35
  It'll be worse for the Russian people.
• 1:29:38
  And we know after the Stalinist purges and the Stalinist, I
• 1:29:42
  mean, truly the this was a genocide of the Ukrainians,
• 1:29:46
  genocide of whole population groups.
• 1:29:49
  I mean, this is so. Why is Sorry to interrupt, but
• 1:29:52
  why is Mary predicting effectively to these children in
• 1:29:57
  Portugal bad stuff that Russia is going to do in the decades to
• 1:30:01
  come? Ask them to pray and pray
• 1:30:05
  especially for the conversion of Russia, because it's going to be
• 1:30:09
  the World War One, as bad as it is, the Spanish flu epidemic as
• 1:30:13
  bad as it was, right? It's it's bad.
• 1:30:17
  But this influence is going to bring, you know, our world at a
• 1:30:21
  whole new secular era. And besides that, a real threat
• 1:30:26
  to the rest of the world. And so should.
• 1:30:30
  Christians be praying for Russia now.
• 1:30:32
  Yes, I I think so. I mean, it was was her kind of
• 1:30:36
  prediction, Our Blessed Mother's prediction in Fatima to the
• 1:30:39
  children about Russia's errors. Obviously you have the
• 1:30:43
  Stalinists and you have all of the tremendous persecution of
• 1:30:46
  Christians and the gulag and all of the just death and
• 1:30:49
  destruction that came with that, right, Right.
• 1:30:51
  And then you have the falling of the, you know, you have the
• 1:30:55
  overall the end of the Cold War. Boris Yeltsin.
• 1:30:57
  And. Standing on the tank, just
• 1:31:01
  ushering a whole new age the decline of the Soviet Socialist
• 1:31:05
  Republic. Gorbachev, actually.
• 1:31:07
  Tear down this wall. Well, then Kennedy, yeah, I mean
• 1:31:11
  Reagan saying tear down this wall and so much, you know,
• 1:31:17
  other, you know, tremendous other things that are happening.
• 1:31:22
  But I mean, literally all of the predictions, you know what would
• 1:31:26
  happen. We were praying at Master the
• 1:31:28
  conversion of Russia for many, many years.
• 1:31:30
  But is it is it converted? She converted.
• 1:31:32
  I guess my question is, yes, you know, the wall came down.
• 1:31:35
  Yes, there's much more freedom throughout, you know, Eastern
• 1:31:38
  Europe. But and you know, many of these
• 1:31:40
  countries are now sovereign again that were part of the
• 1:31:42
  Soviet Union. But you now have Russia invading
• 1:31:46
  Ukraine. You still have, you know, a
• 1:31:48
  super high abortion rate in Russia.
• 1:31:49
  You have the abuses that are happening in Russia.
• 1:31:53
  Is there? Is it ongoing?
• 1:31:55
  Yeah, long lasting effects of sin.
• 1:31:58
  But notice three things are happening.
• 1:32:01
  The first thing is the churches are being reopened in Russia.
• 1:32:06
  Of course, as you know, churches were destroyed and many churches
• 1:32:11
  will never be reconstructed and reopened, but they are reopening
• 1:32:15
  and new churches are being built.
• 1:32:17
  What's interesting, when I, I was visiting in Russia myself, I
• 1:32:22
  was doing some talks at the Saint Petersburg Institute there
• 1:32:26
  on Catholic social teaching and ethics and so forth to the
• 1:32:30
  Russian Orthodox Church. And I met with the seminarians.
• 1:32:34
  I mean, they couldn't get enough of me.
• 1:32:36
  Literally, they would come to my room at like 3:00 in the morning
• 1:32:42
  and they go, oh, we got 5 questions, 3:00 in the morning,
• 1:32:46
  you know? Oh well that's the only time we
• 1:32:48
  can ask you. We're just seminarians and all
• 1:32:51
  the dignitaries can ask you the official questions, but we
• 1:32:54
  can't. So, OK, you know, get out of
• 1:32:57
  bed, go over to their classrooms.
• 1:32:58
  These are Orthodox seminarians. Yeah, they were.
• 1:33:01
  Yeah. And they were just the loveliest
• 1:33:03
  people. But also, I got myself over.
• 1:33:07
  I asked those Orthodox seminaries said, Hey, take me
• 1:33:10
  over to the Roman Catholic seminary and they did they, they
• 1:33:13
  took me over there and I, I, I only could meet with the
• 1:33:16
  superior. He want he was a Jesuit.
• 1:33:18
  I could only meet with the superior there.
• 1:33:20
  But the main thing is, is the, the seminarians were out doing
• 1:33:25
  things when I got over there. But the main thing anyway is
• 1:33:28
  that they're getting vocations and you know what?
• 1:33:33
  They're taking up this responsibility.
• 1:33:35
  I mean, one of the questions, you know, the, the seminarians
• 1:33:39
  asking, because during the, the sessions they go, how do you
• 1:33:42
  make sure all these companies are ethical in this and do all
• 1:33:45
  the things I said? Well, one way is that we have
• 1:33:48
  ethics, ethics ratings, you know, you know, and people, you
• 1:33:53
  know, we have Better Business Bureau ratings and we got these
• 1:33:55
  guys and these seminars. Look at me.
• 1:33:57
  And they go, oh, you could never have them here.
• 1:34:00
  Remember, we're up to our elbows in blood.
• 1:34:03
  Whoever was the ethicist who said that this company was bad
• 1:34:06
  at that guy's toast, right? He's he's not going to make it
• 1:34:10
  another day because we don't, you know, people, if you make an
• 1:34:14
  enemy here, you know, as they say, our, our, you know, arms
• 1:34:18
  are up to our elbows in blood. So that the idea is, you know,
• 1:34:22
  they said that won't work. What's another way, you know, we
• 1:34:25
  could make this happen? And of course I said it has to
• 1:34:28
  be a long lasting solution, But the revitalization of religion,
• 1:34:33
  and that is also not just the Russian Orthodox religion, but
• 1:34:36
  also the Roman Catholic religion, there has to be some
• 1:34:38
  form of allowing people some freedom of religion.
• 1:34:42
  Is that the take away message of Fatima that we need to safeguard
• 1:34:46
  the faith, have a revitalization in our own souls and our own
• 1:34:50
  families, our own nations, whether it's Russia or another
• 1:34:52
  nation? Would that be the core message?
• 1:34:54
  You got it. I mean you, you are right on the
• 1:34:56
  marker because that's the whole reason for the showing hell to
• 1:34:59
  the kids, right? It's also the reason for, you
• 1:35:04
  know, praying for Russia, because it's the whole idea you
• 1:35:08
  have to safeguard religion in yourself, safeguard religion and
• 1:35:13
  you know, relationship with God and fidelity to God's moral
• 1:35:17
  teaching in the family. You have to safeguard it in the
• 1:35:20
  community, right? And even in the big huge policy,
• 1:35:24
  the city state that or even in the state itself.
• 1:35:27
  So the the safeguarding of religion is everywhere to be
• 1:35:31
  found in the Fatima miracle. And, and I think as I said
• 1:35:36
  before, you know, it's not just belief in Jesus and Mary.
• 1:35:43
  I mean, by the way, if you don't think Mary's real after this,
• 1:35:47
  you know, ever, I'm begging you, read my book, Christ Science and
• 1:35:50
  Reason. Just read chapter 5.
• 1:35:53
  And how else are you going to explain this?
• 1:35:57
  I mean, if she didn't appear to Lucy, how could Lucy ever make
• 1:36:00
  this prediction? How could this miracle his son
• 1:36:03
  ever have happened, You know, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:36:05
  I totally, you don't have to believe in this as a Catholic.
• 1:36:09
  You simply don't have to believe it.
• 1:36:10
  But I have to say, just as a reasonable responsible thinking
• 1:36:14
  guy, I have to say it's irresistible to think, you know,
• 1:36:19
  I think the Blessed Virgin Mary was not just atmospherically,
• 1:36:24
  but cosmically present and this, you know, replication of the, of
• 1:36:29
  the sun through this gigantic lens and so forth and so on.
• 1:36:32
  I think she was right there going, I'm here.
• 1:36:35
  What's so fascinating is she looks different.
• 1:36:37
  She looks very different. Our Lady of Fatima, then Our
• 1:36:42
  Lady of Guadalupe. Yeah, no, she appears in in the
• 1:36:46
  form of the country and the same thing with Our Lady of Lourdes.
• 1:36:50
  Looks different from Our Lady of Fatima and looks different from
• 1:36:54
  Our Lady of Guadalupe and, you know, different clothing, you
• 1:36:57
  know. Why is that?
• 1:36:58
  Why do you think Our Lady changes her wardrobe and even
• 1:37:02
  her appearance, her physical features for these different
• 1:37:05
  apparitions? So that the people who are
• 1:37:08
  witnessing it will identify with her immediately.
• 1:37:11
  It's like Bernadette of Subiru, right at, at Lourdes.
• 1:37:15
  You know all she can say. She looks at her and thinks,
• 1:37:18
  this is a beautiful lady, right? You know, she doesn't like have
• 1:37:22
  the idea that this could be the Blessed Virgin Mary and of
• 1:37:26
  course everybody's prodding or prodding or, you know, ask her
• 1:37:29
  if she's the Blessed Virgin Mary.
• 1:37:31
  So finally, of course, Bernadette muster suffer courage
• 1:37:34
  and she, you know, she says, well, well, everybody wants to
• 1:37:39
  know who you are. She goes Immaculata concept 2,
• 1:37:43
  which means, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm the Immaculate Conception.
• 1:37:46
  Of course Bernadette had no idea what those words meant. 0 I
• 1:37:51
  mean, so she just said. I repeated it three times so I
• 1:37:56
  could know exactly. Said exactly as she told me.
• 1:38:00
  And of course, she was interrogated like 27 times.
• 1:38:03
  All right, so we're going to do Lord's last because this is our
• 1:38:06
  last apparition to cover and you just, you gave us the teaser.
• 1:38:09
  Oh. OK, very good.
• 1:38:11
  Well, 1854, of course, Our Lady appears.
• 1:38:16
  You know, I'll skip some of the details of the story.
• 1:38:20
  She's out there, you know, by a very, you know, a grotto that is
• 1:38:26
  used for the burning of trash. But it was probably some kind of
• 1:38:30
  a Pagan, you know, place of worship.
• 1:38:33
  And it's, you know, all kinds of demonic things are going on over
• 1:38:37
  there and so forth and so on. But Bernadette's, they're
• 1:38:40
  looking for cords and, you know, sticks of wood for her family's
• 1:38:45
  fire. And, and she's there with two of
• 1:38:48
  her friends, Jean Abbadie, and of course, her sister.
• 1:38:53
  She's sitting there and they go off looking for some wood and
• 1:38:59
  Bernadette, she can't cross the river because she has terrible
• 1:39:04
  asthma and so getting her feet wet and icy cold water right in
• 1:39:09
  in the winter would have been really terrible.
• 1:39:13
  So she anyway, she's just looking there and waiting for
• 1:39:18
  Jean Abdi and her sister to return.
• 1:39:19
  And all of a sudden this beautiful lady appears in front
• 1:39:22
  of this grotto. When she appears in front of the
• 1:39:25
  grotto, she's amazed and she's thrown into this ecstasy.
• 1:39:30
  When she sees her, she's just riveted to her and she is in a
• 1:39:35
  complete state of rapture and she's looking and she's kneeling
• 1:39:41
  on the ground in front of this beautiful woman.
• 1:39:45
  But she's life like the size of a normal human woman.
• 1:39:48
  Oh, maybe just a little bit bigger, but she had roses
• 1:39:54
  between her feet. And she was looked like she was
• 1:39:57
  slightly elevated above the ground, but she looked more or
• 1:40:01
  less like a a beautiful woman in beautiful clothes.
• 1:40:05
  Anyway, she's there. And, you know, as she goes into
• 1:40:10
  the rapture, I mean the Bernadette, does her friends
• 1:40:14
  come back and they go, you know, Bernadette, what kind of
• 1:40:18
  nonsense are you up to? Get up here and help us with
• 1:40:21
  these twigs. And are these pieces of wood?
• 1:40:24
  And so, so Jean Abeddi actually throws a rug which barely misses
• 1:40:30
  her head, you know, and throws it right at her.
• 1:40:34
  I think it hit her in the shoulder of the.
• 1:40:36
  Back. No, no hit.
• 1:40:39
  Hit it, Bernadette. They couldn't see Mary.
• 1:40:42
  They couldn't, but only Bernadette.
• 1:40:43
  Only Bernadette could see Mary and of course she's still in the
• 1:40:48
  Rapture. And finally, of course, you
• 1:40:50
  know, they begin to to sense are you OK as everything.
• 1:40:54
  So of course the sister goes roaring home and so forth, you
• 1:40:58
  know, and then and on the mothers coming out and trying
• 1:41:01
  to, you know, revive her. And this one, Antoine Niccolo,
• 1:41:07
  he basically has to carry her, you know, away, you know, in the
• 1:41:11
  state of rapture because she's just not moving basically.
• 1:41:15
  But she finally, when she comes out of it at the home of Antoine
• 1:41:20
  and his mother, she says, you know, well, I saw this beautiful
• 1:41:24
  woman and and, you know, Antoine is just stupefied.
• 1:41:31
  He said, I've never seen anything like this in before in
• 1:41:33
  my whole life, you know, you know, and a little Bernadette
• 1:41:36
  who he knew he was a little kid, you know, there and still is
• 1:41:39
  kind of a little kid. But the long and the short of it
• 1:41:42
  is that this happens several different times.
• 1:41:47
  And, you know, despite herself, her parents try to, you know,
• 1:41:53
  excuse it and demand that you not go to the grotto.
• 1:41:56
  And then the secular authorities get involved in this.
• 1:42:01
  And when they get involved in this, they start threatening her
• 1:42:04
  and try to do all kinds of things.
• 1:42:07
  I'll just cut to the chase. Basically she, you know, has
• 1:42:13
  this huge group, like 5000 people who are coming to the
• 1:42:17
  grotto because, you know, when she moves into this ecstasy,
• 1:42:21
  literally this doctor to Zeus, he, he basically takes a like a
• 1:42:26
  Wick. You know, she's got a candle in
• 1:42:29
  her hand and he takes the candle and he puts it underneath her
• 1:42:33
  hand and she doesn't even flinch when she's in this ecstasy.
• 1:42:39
  And of course he, he is a person who has a specialty and, you
• 1:42:43
  know, neurophysiology. And so he, he just said this,
• 1:42:48
  you know, this is really impossible.
• 1:42:51
  I mean, he has, maybe you have some Indian guy who could do a
• 1:42:54
  fire walk or something like that, but this girl has never
• 1:42:57
  been trained in any such thing. She's in this ecstasy and.
• 1:43:01
  She did the flame burn her hand. Well, actually it did not.
• 1:43:05
  And that was the second part where Dozus goes, hey, this is
• 1:43:09
  not normal. So he put a flame under her
• 1:43:11
  hand. When she's in ecstasy beholding
• 1:43:12
  Our Lady, there's thousands of people watching.
• 1:43:14
  It would not burn her hand, and she wouldn't flinch, and she
• 1:43:16
  wouldn't even notice that it was.
• 1:43:17
  There, that is correct. Incredible.
• 1:43:19
  Exactly what happened and so of course this goes on the number
• 1:43:23
  of the crowds go up then of course the secular authorities
• 1:43:26
  go, Oh no, now we're going to get more religious
• 1:43:29
  revitalization here in France. We've just become enlightened.
• 1:43:34
  By the way, there is a, a very good story that was written.
• 1:43:39
  It was by a Jewish fellow, you know, who was trying to escape a
• 1:43:45
  Nazi Germany and had been going through Lourdes.
• 1:43:47
  And he promises, he says, if there's anything, if you Get Me
• 1:43:53
  Out of here, Lord, and, and, and there's something to this story,
• 1:44:00
  just Get Me Out of here and I will write it up.
• 1:44:03
  And Franz Verfeld was his name and he was very important, you
• 1:44:07
  know, German writer who is being hunted by the Nazis.
• 1:44:11
  But anyway, he writes it up later because of course he does
• 1:44:16
  get out with his family out of Nazi Europe and then writes it
• 1:44:21
  up right away. It's a great book.
• 1:44:23
  It's called the The Song of Bernadette.
• 1:44:26
  There's a movie called the Song Burdette.
• 1:44:28
  You can also get the book by therefore is excellent.
• 1:44:32
  He researched this thing like someone you know, mad with
• 1:44:36
  devotion. What was the historical context
• 1:44:39
  here, Father Switzer, of the apparition of Our Lady of
• 1:44:42
  Lourdes? Because we're talking of France.
• 1:44:44
  And what year are we talking? Oh, this is 1854.
• 1:44:49
  So, you know, you've got this emperor who's remember that
• 1:44:52
  you've had this terrible French Revolution, terrible
• 1:44:57
  secularization of France, terrible persecution of the
• 1:45:01
  church, beheading all these sisters and priests and
• 1:45:04
  everything from the guillotine, just terrible things that have
• 1:45:07
  happened. Well, anyway, Napoleon comes and
• 1:45:10
  says get rid of that deal. We're, you know, he ends all
• 1:45:14
  the, you know, the remnants of the French Revolution.
• 1:45:18
  I mean, the Reign of Terror was so horrible that the French
• 1:45:21
  people actually ended that themselves.
• 1:45:23
  But the main thought is that you've got this.
• 1:45:27
  I think he's the nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte, and he's
• 1:45:33
  also called Napoleon. This is a second name.
• 1:45:38
  But anyway, he's the successor, I guess, and a third successor
• 1:45:42
  to Napoleon Bonaparte. But he is, you know, a
• 1:45:47
  secularist himself. He wants to protect the
• 1:45:50
  secularist government. So of course he approves,
• 1:45:55
  through his administration, the closing of the grotto.
• 1:45:59
  Of course, this gets a lot of people angry.
• 1:46:02
  Where's Bernadette at this point?
• 1:46:03
  OK, Bernadette is just living in this little town of Lourdes.
• 1:46:07
  And so this is her special meeting place with the Blessed
• 1:46:10
  Mother, and he's like, we're shutting it down.
• 1:46:11
  We're shutting her down. What was the what was the
• 1:46:13
  message, by the way, that Our Lady would give to Bernadette
• 1:46:16
  any messages or she would just appear to?
• 1:46:17
  Her and there's not a message coming out.
• 1:46:21
  She's just praying. So the Blessed Virgin Mary goes
• 1:46:24
  out there and prays with her. But eventually there is the
• 1:46:27
  message of repentance, repentance, repentance.
• 1:46:30
  There is the message, you know, that you return to God and you
• 1:46:36
  know be, you know, repent. That means meant to annoy you,
• 1:46:40
  change your heart, that comes out again and.
• 1:46:43
  Again, that's always the message, it sounds like of the
• 1:46:45
  of all of our ladies apparitions, it's return to
• 1:46:48
  Jesus. Return to Jesus, repent and of
• 1:46:51
  course also doing the rosary is very important as well, you
• 1:46:56
  know, and a variety of other things.
• 1:46:58
  But the main thing is at this point, you know, there's not
• 1:47:02
  even any lures water, which will be come known as miraculous
• 1:47:09
  water. And so there is no sense that
• 1:47:13
  this exists. What happens is that Our Lady
• 1:47:17
  just says, oh, go and drink some water from over there in that
• 1:47:20
  corner of The Cave. And Bernadette goes over there,
• 1:47:23
  but there's no water there. And so she digs and digs and
• 1:47:25
  digs. And finally she finds a little
• 1:47:27
  bit of water that's embedded in the soil.
• 1:47:30
  And so she kind of eats this soil and thinks that's what the
• 1:47:33
  Blessed Virgin Mary wants her to do.
• 1:47:36
  Everybody laughs at her, and nobody appears at the next
• 1:47:40
  apparition because they think that she's crazy.
• 1:47:43
  But what happens, of course, is 2 of the people who were there
• 1:47:48
  began to notice a slow trickle that's literally emerging
• 1:47:53
  throughout the rills of the stone, right?
• 1:47:56
  There's a slow trickle of water that's beginning to emerge.
• 1:48:00
  And of course, one of the guys who was there, you know, applies
• 1:48:04
  it to his eyes and he gets a partial recovery of his sight.
• 1:48:09
  And so of course, some other people start becoming interested
• 1:48:12
  in it. And then, of course, you know,
• 1:48:15
  these miners, you know, they, they really good work with their
• 1:48:22
  hands and and they were a very good tradesman.
• 1:48:27
  They were collected by this guy, remember Antoine Nicolo?
• 1:48:31
  He, he actually sees the trickle of the water too.
• 1:48:34
  He hears the report that there's water coming out of this stone
• 1:48:38
  and there's this going throughout the rolls.
• 1:48:40
  And so he looks at it and he's a very good tradesman and has a
• 1:48:44
  relationship with all of these other guys who are basically
• 1:48:47
  stone crafters and stone miners and so forth and so on.
• 1:48:51
  He gets all these guys together and they go out there in the
• 1:48:54
  middle of the night and they start tracking where the water's
• 1:48:57
  coming from. And then of course, they make a
• 1:49:00
  little channel for the water to to go through.
• 1:49:04
  And then they just open up the little hole from which the the
• 1:49:09
  water is emerging and it starts pouring out into this channel.
• 1:49:13
  So he's created this like wooden channel that's bringing
• 1:49:17
  everything into a huge basin and these guys crafted it.
• 1:49:21
  And so all of a sudden, Bernadette was totally
• 1:49:24
  vindicated. Right here is the water that Our
• 1:49:28
  Lady was pointing to. Nobody had ever known about it
• 1:49:32
  as being in the grotto, and she just.
• 1:49:34
  Of course, when this happens, everybody's back at the grotto
• 1:49:39
  and the miracles right away. Do we?
• 1:49:42
  Know how many miracles have been recorded in connection to the
• 1:49:46
  healing waters of Lords? Well, there's two kinds of
• 1:49:49
  recording. The first kind is the one that's
• 1:49:52
  recorded by the Lords Medical Commission and so those
• 1:49:58
  miracles, they're about 7000. 7000 Miracles from the Waters of
• 1:50:04
  Lords, but the. True number is closer to 10
• 1:50:08
  times that number around 70,000 and the reason for that is
• 1:50:12
  because you have to go through a whole procedure once you go to
• 1:50:16
  the Lord's Medical Bureau or the now they call it the you know,
• 1:50:20
  the Office of investigation. But the main thing is once you
• 1:50:24
  go there, it's a long process. You have to bring up all your
• 1:50:28
  records, you know of being checked previously.
• 1:50:32
  Then there has to be follow up with you.
• 1:50:35
  You have, you know, a week to two weeks of examination by all
• 1:50:38
  the doctors at the Lourdes Medical Bureau.
• 1:50:41
  Then you have to have at least 10 years of follow up, make sure
• 1:50:44
  that the cure has taken and so forth.
• 1:50:47
  Most people just they get cured. And they say thank you and they
• 1:50:52
  say thank you. I'm going to enjoy this.
• 1:50:55
  I mean, I have a dear friend who was cured of significant life
• 1:50:59
  threatening mental health issues in Lords from the healing waters
• 1:51:03
  of Lords. Oh yeah.
• 1:51:05
  And I know. I mean, people listening, you
• 1:51:07
  might have a story. Let me know in the comments.
• 1:51:08
  But there's so many stories, healings, miraculous healings,
• 1:51:13
  physical, mental healings, emotional, even healings from
• 1:51:15
  Lords. Yeah, we know a lady, you know,
• 1:51:19
  who actually had terrible edema in her legs because a, a kid had
• 1:51:26
  kind of run over her in a, a crosswalk and, you know, her
• 1:51:31
  legs had swollen to, you know, twice the normal size.
• 1:51:35
  It had created a terrible problems with walking.
• 1:51:38
  She, she had to use her husband's shoes to get around
• 1:51:42
  and so forth. And anyway, the she goes to
• 1:51:48
  Lourdes and she, you know, gets put in the bath and then she
• 1:51:54
  comes out no effect. So I think she's just leaving
• 1:51:58
  the scene and other people know this better than me.
• 1:52:02
  But as she's leaving the scene, she takes out her medicines to
• 1:52:06
  try and get some relief from the edema.
• 1:52:09
  And the I think somebody tells her, you know, well, are you
• 1:52:16
  going to trust in the miracle or not trust in the miracle?
• 1:52:21
  And she thinks about it for a second.
• 1:52:25
  She tosses her medicine and walks away.
• 1:52:28
  And as she's doing that, after she has displayed the trust,
• 1:52:34
  yeah, she's doing it, those big, huge shoes of her husband start
• 1:52:38
  flopping on her feet and her legs literally start becoming
• 1:52:43
  normal size and she's walking away.
• 1:52:47
  And this lady right here in Orange County, you know, maybe.
• 1:52:50
  We've got to get her on the show.
• 1:52:52
  Get her on the show. Oh my gosh, she's.
• 1:52:54
  Interested in? Praise the Lord, Praise Jesus
• 1:52:56
  Christ. I better not say I'll tell you
• 1:52:58
  her first name. But all right, you tell me after
• 1:53:00
  this. Yeah.
• 1:53:00
  And then. Wow.
• 1:53:02
  Father Spitzer. Yeah, it's but I.
• 1:53:04
  Mean, have you been to Lords? Oh yes, wow, I have but.
• 1:53:08
  You got to do a pilgrimage, get a bunch of sick people and I'll
• 1:53:12
  come and get you. It's amazing.
• 1:53:14
  It's amazing Is your Lords is your favorite, right?
• 1:53:18
  I do love Lords because the reason I love Lourdes is just
• 1:53:22
  having been there at the candlelight processions 1 after
• 1:53:26
  the next, after the next, in the middle of the grotto.
• 1:53:28
  It was so unbelievably supernatural, what was going on
• 1:53:33
  there. I just felt like, I mean, I
• 1:53:35
  loved Fatima and I've visited Fenima and I very much love it.
• 1:53:38
  But I have to tell you, there's something at Lourdes said is so
• 1:53:43
  special. I mean, if you even if you don't
• 1:53:45
  get a cure and because you just know in a sense it's God's will.
• 1:53:51
  But anyway, to finish off Bernadette there, she she
• 1:53:55
  basically, you know, has gets this great notoriety.
• 1:54:00
  And of course, at that point they, all the secular
• 1:54:02
  authorities have got everything closed off.
• 1:54:04
  They don't want this revitalization of religion in
• 1:54:08
  France. And it's making the papers
• 1:54:10
  everywhere, you know, that this has gone on, that this water was
• 1:54:14
  discovered, that this water has miraculous properties.
• 1:54:17
  And so, of course, it comes to the attention of the wife of
• 1:54:22
  Louis Napoleon Young. He's the third generation.
• 1:54:25
  Not their generation, but third. Yeah, generation, ancestor of,
• 1:54:30
  of Napoleon Bonaparte, the nephew, I think.
• 1:54:33
  I believe so. Anyway, his wife, who is again,
• 1:54:38
  this a wonderful Catholic woman. I think she was from Corsica
• 1:54:42
  originally. But anyway, he has married her,
• 1:54:45
  loves her very much. And she goes, Louie, you know,
• 1:54:51
  you know, we should their their boy had had, you know, a bout of
• 1:54:56
  a strep, which could have been like even scarlet fever.
• 1:55:01
  And so she was very, very worried.
• 1:55:03
  So to make a Long story short, she goes and asks her friend who
• 1:55:07
  is, you know, sitting with, you know, Louie, Napoleon's son.
• 1:55:13
  And Lulu is what his name was. And so she says, you know, hey,
• 1:55:18
  can you get me some of this Lord's water?
• 1:55:20
  Well, of course, it was strictly forbidden for anyone to go
• 1:55:24
  there. But, you know, this was the wife
• 1:55:26
  of the head of the French Navy. Nobody knew it, but she just
• 1:55:31
  went over there and tried to sneak some water out of the, of
• 1:55:35
  the basin, out of the grotto. And she's arrested and she's
• 1:55:39
  dragged before, you know, the, the magistrate there and, you
• 1:55:44
  know, to, you know, to suffer the, the consequences.
• 1:55:49
  And so he says your name, please.
• 1:55:51
  And of course she gives the name.
• 1:55:53
  He goes, oh, you know, there's someone of great fame that is my
• 1:55:57
  husband. Oh, your husband.
• 1:56:01
  Why are you here doing this, you know?
• 1:56:04
  Nice French accent. I was trying to procure some
• 1:56:08
  water for the son of the emperor.
• 1:56:12
  Oh, that is impossible, you know.
• 1:56:14
  So of course, finally, you know, he says you are going to have to
• 1:56:19
  pay the fine, you know. So she goes, I would gladly pay
• 1:56:23
  the fine and I would pay 10 times more.
• 1:56:25
  Just give it to the the poor of Lourdes, you know, of course
• 1:56:30
  this is going on and you know, this challenge is going out, you
• 1:56:36
  know, and of course he gives her the water, you know, But you
• 1:56:41
  know, that's, you know, the water cures the boy.
• 1:56:45
  Amazing. So literally Lulu the the son of
• 1:56:49
  Louis Napoleon. So make a Long story short she
• 1:56:53
  goes Louis. It is very undignified of you to
• 1:56:58
  not allow this grotto to be reopened.
• 1:57:02
  Your son is speaking. We do not know, dear, that the
• 1:57:05
  water was the exact agent or the killer of our son.
• 1:57:08
  You know, we do not have to do anything.
• 1:57:10
  And she goes, oh, I think it was, you know, should go on and
• 1:57:13
  on, right? You know, it was, you know.
• 1:57:16
  And so using her persuasions, finally she gets him to reopen
• 1:57:25
  the grotto. And all I can tell you is, you
• 1:57:27
  know, from the literally the source of the water to the
• 1:57:30
  miraculous nature of the water, to actually the Emperor of
• 1:57:34
  France getting involved and reopening the grotto by his own
• 1:57:38
  signature. I mean the ironies and the
• 1:57:41
  miracles just working through this little peasant girl.
• 1:57:45
  It's hilarious in a good sense because of course there is.
• 1:57:50
  Despite all of the despotic attempts of these, the the
• 1:57:55
  emperor, the secular administration, all of a sudden
• 1:57:59
  this thing opens up. But I just got to tell you about
• 1:58:02
  four miracles. 5 miracles have happened that you just you got
• 1:58:06
  to all. Right, we got you.
• 1:58:08
  Can you do it? You're you had the, you had the
• 1:58:10
  out at 5:15 and it's 530, it's 530 now.
• 1:58:16
  I can't. Can we save it for another?
• 1:58:18
  We can save it for another episode.
• 1:58:19
  Yes, but I want to hear those miracles.
• 1:58:21
  So you're going to get. You're going to have to come
• 1:58:22
  back, Father Spitzer. All right, well.
• 1:58:24
  Thank you so very. Much.
• 1:58:25
  Thank you so much, Father. This is awesome as usual.
• 1:58:28
  Amazing. God bless you.
• 1:58:30
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• 1:58:36
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• 1:58:39
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• 1:58:41
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