Latest / The Virtual Couch / From Therapy Couch to Moving Trucks: A Tale of Change Through ALL the Uncomfortable Feelings!

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From Therapy Couch to Moving Trucks: A Tale of Change Through ALL the Uncomfortable Feelings! · The Virtual Couch

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Music.
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Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 420 of The Virtual Couch.
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I'm your host, Tony Overbay.
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I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, certified mindful habit coach,
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writer, speaker, husband, and father of four, and host of the Waking Up the
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Narcissism podcast, co-host of Love ADHD with my good friend Julie Lee,
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as well as the Mind the Mirror Me with my daughter Mackie, Murder on the Couch with Sydney.
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And please go to TonyOverbay.com, sign up for my newsletter,
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and follow me on Instagram at TonyOverbay underscore LMFT, or at Virtual Couch on TikTok.
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We've been pumping out the reels as of late, so a lot of good content there.
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But let's get to today's show, and welcome back to the Virtual Couch.
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And go ahead, take a seat. Sorry, the middle cushion there does have a little
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bit of wear to it, but actual true story, at least in my experience,
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the couch for the therapist does matter.
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I've done a three-cushion couch, and a single solitary client will go right
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to the middle cushion and wear it out.
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And if you you have a couple coming in, they basically go to the outside edges
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of the solitary cushion and it almost forces them to sit apart,
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which is kind of interesting.
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And then maybe I'm reading that a little bit wrong when I'm trying to read the room.
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But if you have a two cushion couch, then the solitary client goes to the middle
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and will create almost like a vortex that can be really difficult to get out
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of the deeper that it gets and the more relaxed that somebody finds themselves in therapy.
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And I've done leather or faux leather for years.
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You can wipe it up nice, clean it really well. and finally went fabric,
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but it's very cushiony and more fun facts.
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The furniture store would not warranty that bad boy when I decided to be honest
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and tell them what I do for a living or honestly more.
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I felt like the person selling me that last couch was probably in need of a
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little therapy because they made sure and let me know when they found out what
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I do about the difficulties with the old ball and chain,
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a boss, if you know what I mean, which I mean, technically I did,
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but I think this guy wanted a fist bump along with my acknowledgement,
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not me wanting to reach for a business card. But anyway, I have missed you all.
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And as these podcasts are evergreen, I thought about just pretending that nothing happened.
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No, I did not have my first ever two-week break of all podcasts in the history
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of my podcasting, but I did.
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And we're going to use that to talk about change today, along with some pretty
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cool change-related research that I stumbled upon.
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But I have missed podcasting. And I've appreciated those who have reached out,
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asked if everything was okay. Did we in fact make the move? How did it go? Et cetera, et cetera.
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So I'm thrilled to be here speaking to you again.
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It has honestly been a whirlwind of a month.
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After 31 years in California and almost 25 years in the same home,
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it was really wild as we embarked on a new adventure, moving to Arizona.
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And quick train of thought, I love what I do and I'm passionate about this work
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and I eat it and I breathe it and I sleep it, but you really can't understand
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a principle until you live it.
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And I love saying that we don't know what we don't know and I certainly,
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as much as I talked about change and embracing change, boy, you don't really
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know until you embrace a big change.
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And I remember when my daughter Alex got in a near fatal car accident a little
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over two years ago, the very phrases that I used to say, the things like,
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you know, acknowledge, feel the feelings and invite them to come with you while
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you do value-based things.
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I remember at that time, that suddenly felt incredibly difficult with what I
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was going through and I came on soon after.
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I remember I shared that if I would have been my therapist at the time that
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she went through that accident, I probably would have punched myself in the
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neck, or my therapist being me.
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And then I realized that sometimes those feelings just hit harder than others
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based on the circumstances that you are a particular feeling.
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And sometimes that is where it's going to take as long as it's going to take,
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or you're going to be able to work through things when you can.
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And while I can now look back and honestly say that I learned so much about
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myself, and not trying to say that from an egotistical standpoint,
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that that was all about me.
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But we really only know what our own experience is. We can try our best to be
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curious and to have empathy over what others are going through.
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But the proverbial, at the end of the day, everything is a you issue. It's a me issue.
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And so that was my opportunity to learn, to grow, and I'm so grateful that my
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daughter is better. her.
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But I learned so much about my family during that time and my relationship with
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my family, and I really didn't have a clue about what I didn't know.
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And ironically, then this move actually has to do with her being pregnant and
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her and her husband, Mitch, expecting their first son, my grandson, in a couple of months.
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So I speak of change. I so often speak of change, and I am of the belief that
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change brings opportunity for growth.
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And I thought I'd experienced some change on occasion, but man,
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change, big life changes, that does bring tremendous opportunity for discomfort.
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And I recognize and I acknowledge that this was a move of our choice.
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And so many people don't have that luxury, so to speak, of choosing to move.
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I don't want to dismiss that or downplay that, but regardless of if it is a
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choice to be made, or if it is a choice that is forced upon you, it is change.
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And that does bring a lot of things. It brings discomfort, it brings uncertainty,
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and those are opportunities to grow.
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So this journey filled with unexpected turns and lessons,
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it reminded me of a phrase that I do find myself saying to myself often,
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and it makes its way into therapy and podcasts, that this is the very first
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time that you are going through life as you.
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And man, did I live those words these past few weeks. So today I want to share
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a little bit about what the move taught.
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Basically, the move is the thing that caused me to have a lot of feelings and
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put me in a position to recognize so many things I didn't know that I didn't know.
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And it didn't just teach me things about packing boxes or saying goodbyes.
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Man, I'll talk about that in a bit.
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But about facing life's unknowns with acceptance, self-confrontation,
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and then how do you seize ease those opportunities for growth when they are
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incredibly uncomfortable.
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Let me set the scene for today's podcast as well with some information about change.
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And this is from an article from Psychology Today called, Your Brain Thinks
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Change Is As Good As Rest.
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So I loved that topic because I think most of the people I'm working with wish
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they could have more rest and less change.
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But if your brain truly says, well, I kind of think change is pretty cool,
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as good as rest, then if we are are not embracing change.
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I'm not going to say what is wrong with us, but check that out.
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What can we learn here? And this is by E. Paul Zier. He's a PhD.
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And so I will refer to him as Dr. Paul. I hope that that is okay because I hope
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that I'm pronouncing his last name correctly. But so Dr. Paul.
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And the subheading says fatigue is specific to what we're doing.
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Changing things up can be refreshing.
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And he goes on to share that if you think about it, fatigue is tiring, and no surprise there.
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But fatigue can also mean a lot of different things, depending on the context.
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A common thread, though, is that when we say that something is fatiguing,
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maybe what we really mean is that continuing to do the thing,
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whatever that thing is getting harder and harder, and eventually impossible to maintain.
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And I was talking earlier this week with my friend, Coach Craig Pera,
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Sarah, creator of The Mindful Habit, which is the basis of my Path Back Recovery
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course. Please go sign up today.
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Seriously, honestly, email me right now and just ask and I'll give you a coupon code.
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But Coach Craig and I were talking about just the concept of capacity.
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And so often, because I love preaching emotional consistency,
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so we can do something basically until we can't.
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And sometimes people will stick to a task almost in this bullheaded fashion
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because, and I appreciate this, where they say, but I want to keep my word.
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And I think that is one of the greatest areas to work from, because that is
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what helps build safety in a relationship and build trust.
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But there are times where it might be more of a capacity issue.
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Maybe we do run out of gas emotionally, or maybe we do just shut down. We're tired.
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We can't talk our body out of not being able to go on.
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And I think maybe that is an opportunity for growth, is to be able to embrace
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Embrace that discomfort of feeling or worrying that I might let somebody down
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and then going on to then own it and express that,
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man, I thought I could do this and I've been able to until now.
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Fatigue is set in and that is an opportunity for me to grow because when we
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are setting out on any kind of journey, conquest, even going after a goal,
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we're at the beginning of that journey.
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So we may set this expectation that we really don't have any clue about what
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that's going to look like after however long, whatever the metric is, a day, a week, a year.
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And I think about this in the context so often of where people are really disappointed
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at times that they are where they are in their life at the time that they're coming in to see me.
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But then when I say, okay, where did you think you would be?
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Then they lay out this narrative that they've been telling themselves since
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they were a 10-year-old kid.
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And now they're disappointed that their 10-year-old or 12-year-old or even teenage
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self wasn't able to predict the future and anticipate all of the turns and bumps
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and bruises that were going to come along the way.
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So that is an opportunity for growth because it will feel uncomfortable that
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I'm not the pirate astronaut baseball player living on a beach like I thought I would be at this point.
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But check that out. So what an opportunity for growth.
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And to give myself grace that my 12-year-old self didn't quite have it figured
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out. Surprise, surprise.
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Capacity. Something to just put out there. It's a capacity issue.
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Or what are your issues where you feel like you do hit your capacity?
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And it goes back to you are the only one that knows what it feels like to be you.
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If you truly feel like you are at your wit's end or you feel like you can't
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give more in a project, in a relationship,
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first of all, give yourself grace and understand that, okay,
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now you are in that point, in that moment in life for the very first time and check that out.
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You anticipated that it wouldn't feel the way that it is.
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But I'm going to embrace those feelings and I'm going to say,
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okay, what are they teaching me?
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That maybe now I do need to learn to self-advocate, learn to sit with that discomfort
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and share with someone that I thought I would be able to hit a certain mark or do a certain thing.
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But now I'm realizing that as I'm involved in whatever the activity is,
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that I am recognizing now that guess that I made was a bit inaccurate.
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And again, it goes back to you are the only one who knows what it feels like
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to be you, and if it's a capacity issue, or if here is this opportunity to grow through discomfort,
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which it really does make me go to the world of exercise or high-intensity exercise.
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Or for me, it's the 25 years as an ultramarathon runner and talk about this
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battle in my head constantly of, oh wait, no, is my body literally about to shut down?
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Or is this an opportunity to continue to go forward even though I'm experiencing
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a tremendous amount of pain?
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And for those who have often wondered, why does someone run anything,
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10 miles, 20 miles, 50 miles, 100 miles or more?
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And I used to say, oh, it's so I can eat ice cream. But boy,
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when you really sit and think about it,
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if you felt like you were full of guilt or shame growing up,
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if you felt like people didn't hear you, if you were one who would then turn
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inward and start to beat yourself up, man, what a way to now learn to embrace and work through pain.
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What a way to do that. It is that high-intensity exercise.
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It's the ultra running. So what am I running from? It's more like, what am I running into?
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To? What am I running through in order to almost subconsciously prove to myself
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that I can do difficult things, even though maybe caregivers or others in one's
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life are not as supportive?
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So people often do those things, those accomplishments, hoping to get validation.
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But really, that is one of the, I have found one of the best ways to get your
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own self-validation by completing something. Yeah, it's great when everybody says, way to go.
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But that's one of of those things where you know that you did the hard thing.
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So this does bring me to a little bit of a story time.
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So this article took me back to the very first time that I ran the Lake Tahoe 100 mile race.
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And I had headed up to the race, I felt pretty prepped, as prepped as anybody
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can be for running 100 miles through the woods.
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But at that point, I believe, and I actually went back and double checked because
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now just being aware of the wonderful fallibility of memory.
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But I had completed 200 mile races at that point.
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But man, when you hit mile 60, 70, 80 and beyond, it is entering a whole new
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world of hurt, regardless of the preparation or training, at least for me,
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of what you had done before.
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Plus, Lake Tahoe is at elevation, which as a non-professional runner,
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I couldn't go spend three weeks in elevation trying to just get okay with that
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environment just to make sure that it didn't have a significant negative impact.
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Because at this particular race, it did. The elevation was incredible.
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And I remember those first 20 or 30 miles, just feeling like my heart was going
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to beat out of my chest, regardless of my pace.
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And it pretty much becomes this, your brain and your body arm wrestling each other most of the time.
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But there was one time, climbing in particular, what felt like to be the top
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of the world. It was, I think, approaching mile 92.
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And I had my buddy Trevor Nielsen pacing me. And we hit over the 9,000 foot
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mark. and let me tell you, after running 90 miles, plus the day and night,
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and now we're entering the second sunrise, the next day that we had going on,
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my brain did this really funny thing.
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And I just found myself starting to speak in numbers. It was like my brain switched
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gears to something that I, and I am not a numbers guy.
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I'm not a math wizard, but I was just this yelling numbers out loud.
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And I really thought that Trevor would understand.
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And so I would look at him very, I remember very, I was being very puzzled and
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curious of why he wasn't responding when I'm just, laying out a string of numbers.
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I'm spitting out miles and calories and how much water I'm downing all while
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he's probably wondering, what on earth is this about?
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What is he supposed to do? What is he supposed to do with that?
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And it kind of hit me, you know, you're always crunching numbers in these races,
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trying to make sure that you take in enough calories or make sure that you don't
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hit that point where if you lose too much water weight, they'll pull you out
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of the race for dropping too much weight.
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And on that note, I think this is a real funny thing that happens after you're done running.
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So here you've been, you've been sweating buckets and you've been just drinking
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water like a fish over the course of 24 or 28 solid hours.
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And so then when you finally stop.
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I feel like your body's almost saying, okay, is this guy, he might do this again.
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So we better hold on to all the water.
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Like we're preparing for the Y2K. There's a good old reference for you years ago.
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But like, or the apocalypse or something. And you hold and retain water for a day or two.
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And you end up putting on about 10 pounds and feeling really bloaty,
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puffing you up. And then give it a couple of days.
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And then suddenly your body's kind of like, okay, I think we're good.
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I don't think he's going to do that again.
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So we can let all that water go. And the next thing you know,
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you are racing to the bathroom every 15 minutes.
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And I'm telling you, as a therapist, trying to sit through therapy sessions
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without a bathroom break was almost as intense as intense with my brief love
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affair with dried apricots.
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That's another lesson that I learned the hard way. But throughout this race,
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especially on that trek up the mile 92, my focus kept flip-flopping.
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First, it's my breathing, getting very heavy because of the climb or the elevation
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or just from being wiped out. And then when I can't stand thinking about how
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hard it is to breathe, my breathing is getting so labored, then my legs would
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start screaming at me instead.
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And it's not just any pain, it's that kind of pain that makes you think twice
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about every single step.
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But then just as my legs are about to give out, I switch back to focusing on
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my breathing. And it was like this mental game of trying to keep myself from
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thinking about giving up.
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But that whole experience really hammers home how I really believe fatigue isn't
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just about your muscles giving out or your brain checking out. It's both.
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So sometimes it feels like your brain is trying to convince you to stop,
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not just at race or running, but in a lot of different tasks.
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And other times your body is maybe on the verge of quitting,
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but somehow you find ways to keep those legs moving and that mind pushing through.
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And it becomes this wild dance between wanting to keep going and your body begging for a break.
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Back to the article, and again, I hope he doesn't mind me calling him Dr. Paul, but Dr.
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Paul asks, have you ever thought about how just thinking about being tired can
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actually make you feel more tired?
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But I hear what he's saying. I think that dealing with fatigue,
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whether it's mental or physical, is just one of those things that I hear so often in my office.
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People saying that they are just exhausted.
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And if I dig in and I ask, okay, sometimes is it mental? Is it physical?
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I feel like I'll just get the answer, yes.
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And I often wonder if that fatigue is your own body trying to communicate something
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to you. Sure, it could be as simple as, why on earth are you running 100 miles?
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Or it could be as simple as, yeah, get some sleep, dummy. Or is it,
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hey, are we going to do this thing that provides absolutely zero purpose or
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value to your life again and again, quite frankly, I would rather sit this one out.
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And I think about that when people are in jobs, they just feel like a complete
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lack of any kind of interest in, and they maybe have tried to add their value,
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one of their core values into their work environment.
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But then at some point, it's their own body just saying, okay,
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this is not what I'm on earth for.
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So again, I need to communicate this to my host somehow.
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But it's kind of wild, right? So fatigue is one of those things that can mean
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a whole bunch of different things depending on what we're talking about.
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But I feel like no matter how you slice it, when we say that we are feeling
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fatigued, it's like we're saying, hey, keeping this up is getting tougher and tougher.
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I might not be able to keep going, whatever the it is.
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And I can speak with some confidence that when you are engaged in things that
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matter to you, living a little more of a value-based or purpose-filled life,
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life, it doesn't mean that you can go without sleep altogether.
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But I do think that you may have a bit more pep in your step or you're more
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eager to do the things that you want to do other than the things you don't.
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So to me, the running for me personally was just, I didn't know it.
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I don't even think at the time of what it represented to me.
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So then I think a lot of people might hear that, well, why would you just,
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if you were thinking in terms of numbers and that can't be good on your health
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and why are you at mile 90 over 9,000 feet anyway?
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Well, it was because that that really did mean something to me,
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that that was a me thing. And so that's a place where I was able to push through fatigue.
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And I was able to then focus on breathing when legs hurt, and then legs when
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breathing was labored, and then eventually got to that finish line.
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But I know that if that is not something that matters to you or to someone else,
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that isn't going to be something that they might be able to do.
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And I can think about experiences I've had in my own life where I just really
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haven't really cared a lot about whatever it was that I was doing at that time.
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And in those situations, then I do feel like maybe a mental fatigue or a mental
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fog will set in, but then I will beat myself up for not finishing.
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How can I finish, you know, 100 ultra marathons and a dozen races over 100 miles,
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but then not want to finish something that maybe takes 10 or 15 minutes?
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Well, a lot of that is because it just doesn't speak to me that it isn't something that I find value in.
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Now, that again becomes either an opportunity for growth that I can check this
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out, I can finish this thing, especially if it's service or there to benefit others,
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even if I'm feeling that fatigue pushing through it, or there are going to be
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situations in your life and you'll be the one that ultimately will decide where
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that fatigue might be telling you, we have to do something different because
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we are going to run out of capacity.
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And at that point, now I worry that we're going to start slipping into starting
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to feel, I don't know, restless,
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anxious, depressed, we're starting to have experienced physical symptoms where
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this is where things like, I don't know, irritable bowel, chronic fatigue,
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fibromyalgia, these sorts of things may kick in.
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And again, I'm not a doctor, but I feel like I have enough anecdotal experience
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of people who then, when they start finding things that matter and a purpose and,
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letting go of the, what's wrong with me, I'm broken, when they let go of that
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narrative, then sometimes you see a little bit more of that pep in the step
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and that fatigue isn't as strong.
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You know, I was just talking with a client a couple of days ago,
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and he was talking about feeling just an overall lack of motivation in his life.
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Everything in his life was kind of just okay. His job, okay.
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His marriage, it could be worse, could be better. His kids, they've been worse.
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They could also be better as well. His hobbies, they're fine.
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And it led me to this concept of change being for good.
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Because I think that the pop psychology vibe is that change is running away
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from your problems, that you're still taking your problems with you.
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But in my humble opinion, and now having moved for the first time in 30 plus
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years, uprooting a family, a therapy practice, so many unknowns,
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I honestly think that, yeah, you're bringing along some of your familiar tried
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and true tendencies, your greatest hits.
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But if you're really doing the work, your work, your internal work,
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and this causes me to recall a little what about Bob, if you're doing the work,
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if you're baby stepping,
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baby stepping, you're trying, then change not only offers you a little bit of
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a dopamine bump of novelty, sure, but with a side of perhaps,
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or even a full portion of it could be some anxiety and some uncertainty with
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a bonus bucket of what ifs and yeah buts.
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But if you've been on the virtual couch for the last six months to a year,
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you'll know that it can also provide you with your muse,
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this thing that you're going to interact with, your opportunity to interact
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with change, to feel feelings, and know what you didn't know.
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And to be able to sit with that discomfort and then acknowledge,
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of course, I don't know what I don't know.
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This is the first time I've ever been through life as me in this situation. situation.
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And if somebody else is saying, man, I can't believe you don't know that. Okay, well, thank you.
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It kind of sounds like a you thing. And I'm not saying that in a dismissive way, but I don't know it.
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I don't know what I'm supposed to say to make you feel better about me not knowing something.
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Because learning how to differentiate and knowing what you don't know,
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to be able to differentiate, meaning that ultimately, all of the wonderfully
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unique and frustrating challenges that are coming up for you are, in fact, you issues.
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But similar to how the spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down,
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these are you issues in the most delightful way.
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This is your opportunity to self-confront and, yes, grow. Growth happens in
22:35
the discomfort. Growth doesn't necessarily happen through repetition.
22:38
Sure, you could repeatedly lift weights with only your right arm and become
22:41
the world's greatest wrestler with tiny legs and a tiny left arm and a ginormous right arm.
22:45
So there you go, Mr. Smarty Pants. It was playing the role of contrarian in
22:48
today's episode, but I'm talking just like a good trail run where the variations
22:53
of surface and pitch and camber and ascent and descent help build not only your major leg muscles,
23:00
but it also gives you an opportunity for growth in a lot of the little smaller
23:04
muscle groups for a more well-rounded experience.
23:08
We grow from discomfort, but we are wired to avoid discomfort.
23:13
What a beautiful paradox.
23:15
So I think that often in our lives, we spend so much time trying to avoid discomfort
23:18
altogether that we miss out on amazing opportunities for growing and for living
23:23
and for experiencing all that we can on this amazing earth.
23:27
The yeah buts are always going to be there. Yeah, but I don't know how.
23:30
Yeah, but I don't know if it'll even work. Yeah, but I don't know if our house
23:33
will sell. Yeah, but I'm not sure if my debt to income ratio is good enough to get a home loan.
23:37
Yeah, but I don't know if I can transition to more virtual clients for a while.
23:41
Yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but.
23:43
And the thing is, all of those yeah, buts are valid.
23:47
All of them may be absolutely true, but you'll never know if you simply run
23:52
away or withdraw or retreat from the first sign of discomfort.
23:56
And if you've been avoiding discomfort for more than a year or two or three
24:00
in your life, the chances are that that interior landscape of your mind or what
24:04
it feels like to be you, which remember is built upon the slow residue of your lived experience,
24:11
means that what it feels like to be you is you may not even contemplate change
24:15
because your brain has become so efficient at skipping steps to save electrical
24:20
activity, to avoid discomfort,
24:22
that I would hazard a guess that even if you start to think about change,
24:26
it might just skip right to anxiety and that feeling Feeling alone causes you to move on.
24:31
There's nothing to see here, so you'll need to learn to sit for a second.
24:37
Build in that pause. Here's where mindfulness comes in. Meditation.
24:40
Learning how to pause and check out those thoughts and feel those feelings and
24:44
identify what those yeah buts are. What are those feelings?
24:48
And then that is a tremendous opportunity for growth, to be able to acknowledge the feelings.
24:53
Hey fear, nice of you to stop by. I know you mean well. Well,
24:56
I do wonder, however, if you are just a secondary emotion. I wonder if you're
24:59
coming to the rescue of embarrassment.
25:01
Because what if I get on the phone with the mortgage broker and he tells me
25:04
that I need to pay down some credit card debt? That's uncomfortable.
25:07
But deep inside, I know it's true. But to do that, I might have to actually
25:11
confront my financial situation.
25:13
And that is incredibly uncomfortable.
25:15
Because that means I may have to slow down my spending. Which means that I might.
25:19
Have to bring it up with my spouse.
25:20
And I might have to say no more to my kids. And I already don't feel like I'm
25:23
a good parent. And all that feels icky. and so where's my phone and where's that bingo game?
25:26
There you go, discomfort gone. And I will deal with all this later, tomorrow.
25:31
Yeah, or since it is Thursday at the time of this recording,
25:35
then I'll deal with it next Monday.
25:37
But that will actually be the 16th, so maybe next month on the 1st.
25:40
That's it. That is when I will deal with this discomfort and make the huge change.
25:45
So here's the big question. Back to Dr. Paul. Is fatigue something that comes
25:49
from inside of us, or is it something that happens because of external stuff?
25:53
In the world of sensory motor neuroscience, which is just a very fancy way of
25:58
saying the science of how our senses and movement work together,
26:00
the researchers, scientists have been searching and scratching their heads about
26:05
fatigue for a long time. time.
26:07
And they look at it in terms of how well we can do something physical over time,
26:11
like holding a muscle tight or doing a bunch of reps at the gym or running or biking for a while.
26:16
But scientists, though, have been so curious about fatigue for a long time that
26:19
they want to know things like what kicks it off. How do we define it?
26:23
How do we shake off fatigue?
26:24
And so when researchers really get down into the nitty gritty of fatigue,
26:28
they often talk about it in two ways, central and peripheral.
26:31
And you can think of central as the inside stuff, the brain stuff,
26:35
the brain-based reasons that you might lose motivation to keep going.
26:38
The yeah buts, like your brain saying, no, I'm good. Let's stop.
26:41
And on the other hand, the peripheral is more about the outside stuff,
26:44
like your muscles, getting the memo and acting on it and how all that feels to you.
26:48
That's why I love this concept of the experience that I had running this 100
26:53
miler, that at times that it really was the central part that was trying to
26:58
signal fatigue, the mental.
26:59
And then there was also the peripheral, which were literally my legs screaming
27:03
at me at times and wondering why, why you weren't getting the memo brain.
27:08
Here's the kicker though, in real life, fatigue isn't just then an inside job
27:12
or an outside job, it really is a bit of both.
27:15
And our brain and our muscles team up to decide when we've hit our limit,
27:18
when we've hit our capacity.
27:20
So through these central and peripheral concepts, I mean, they may sound like
27:25
they're pretty clear cut categories inside the body outside,
27:29
but in reality, They're more like these guidelines or these really blurry lines
27:32
that scientists use to try and get a handle on the whole fatigue thing.
27:38
So let me jump now into more of the narrative of the stories that happened during the move.
27:42
And I just want to freestyle maybe as the kids would say, again,
27:46
not sure which kids those are, and just tell a couple of quick stories and things
27:49
I learned about myself through the move.
27:53
What was it that led me to just embrace the move?
27:57
And I almost want this as a bit of an audio journal of sorts,
28:00
because I do feel like over the past six months to a year, there has been an
28:04
increasing vibe, energy, or thought process going on inside of me.
28:08
And I want to speak to this because, as I mentioned earlier in the episode,
28:12
that the way that I think someone can truly speak to or maybe even teach or
28:17
guide in a situation is if they have been through this before.
28:21
And so the more that I was talking about being differentiated and everything
28:25
is an opportunity for growth and
28:28
continuing to meditate daily and not just falling asleep when I meditate,
28:32
but then starting to increase the time of my meditation and recognizing right
28:36
there that even though I have claimed
28:38
the benefits of mindfulness and a meditative practice for years now,
28:42
the last year it has been an entirely different experience where now I'm saying,
28:47
man, I had no idea what I didn't know about what it feels like to consistently practice.
28:52
Create a time and a space for meditation. I understand now why people talk about it so much.
28:58
And if you're hearing this and thinking, I don't have time, I can't stop my thoughts.
29:02
Again, all of those are yeah buts. And I would just highly, highly encourage
29:06
you to do this for yourself.
29:08
If you could get a feeling of what it would feel like, I think,
29:10
to meditate for, let's say, six months, at least six days a week, you would do it.
29:15
You would say, man, I will stop the podcast right now and I want more of that. I will meditate.
29:20
Because just the way that it affects your central nervous system and lowers
29:24
that resting heart rate and allows you to just be in that moment more.
29:27
So heading into the move, there were so many things that I could tell that especially
29:32
people in my family, a lot of people around me that were getting very anxious
29:36
or nervous about all of the unknowns, the yeah buts.
29:40
And I found myself having almost a difficult time getting very worked up about
29:45
something that I didn't know because I didn't know it.
29:48
And it's It's expected to be curious or be nervous or maybe even a little bit
29:56
frightened about the future because our brain wants certainty so bad and we
30:01
have to accept the fact that we don't know.
30:04
And I think this goes back to that acceptance means to take in without defense in its entirety.
30:10
So if I accept the fact that there are going to be a lot of uncomfortable moments
30:14
coming And there are so many unknowns and there is not certainty,
30:17
then the fact that those things are there is no longer as scary because now
30:23
it's like, well, I've accepted that. Oh, of course, I don't know.
30:26
If we start finding ourselves saying, well, what if our house doesn't sell and
30:29
what if we can't find a house in Arizona?
30:30
And what if we can't afford it? And what if we can't get the loan?
30:34
Then, yeah, those things would be wild.
30:36
So with that said, let's get right back to the present. What do we need to start
30:40
doing? And I'll tell you one of the first things was...
30:43
I would never think of myself as one who hoards, who collects,
30:47
who keeps a lot of things.
30:49
But I think if you've been in a house for over a quarter of a century,
30:53
you probably have a lot of things.
30:55
And so the first step of that really was, okay, let's start to declutter.
30:59
Let's start to get rid of.
31:00
Let's start to throw things away, sell things, donate things,
31:04
do everything that we can to reduce.
31:06
And I'm hoping that that vibe will continue because it was quite a while ago,
31:11
quite a few months ago. go.
31:12
And that just became empowering in and of itself.
31:15
And I would notice, talk about an opportunity for growth, how often I wanted
31:19
to not do things like declutter, get rid of, go through closets, go through the garage.
31:25
And weekends would come and then I wanted to rest and relax.
31:29
And so I could want those things. I could notice those things.
31:31
And that's the moments where I felt like I could invite those things to go along
31:34
with me while I do, while I just continue to move forward and take action.
31:38
And so that became a bit empowering.
31:41
But even then, it just led to the next step about, okay, what do we do to get the house ready?
31:46
We get our realtor, a good friend of mine named Drew.
31:49
And Drew comes over and he looks through the house and we're taking notes.
31:52
And okay, now we have a lot of action items. Now we have to, again, take action.
31:56
And we would notice how often you would want to just say, okay,
31:59
I'll do it later. But oh, that old chestnut, the old do it later story.
32:02
And so it really was a constant opportunity when you would have free time to
32:08
then know that there are things that I can do, even though I don't want to do them.
32:13
And, and I really feel like the concept as well of, I, I would,
32:19
I've heard people say that they don't want to do it wrong, whatever it is.
32:22
I don't want to do it out of order. I don't want to pack too early.
32:25
I don't want to get rid of the wrong things. I don't even know what the right
32:28
thing to do is. And this is where I would love to suspend that concept of right
32:32
and wrong a little bit more, because in reality, if we can just do those things, and again, Mr.
32:39
Contrarian, if you're saying, oh, okay, so right and wrong, no difference, murder, anyone?
32:44
If you went right to murder, then that frightens me a little bit.
32:47
But if we're talking about, okay, I'm just doing, and then what is,
32:51
again, so fascinating about this is, I'll tell a story that will change the details slightly,
32:56
but let's just say that there was this adult couple, they were wanting to pull
33:00
a hilarious fun prank on a friend of theirs, and they got the wrong street.
33:04
And they pulled this prank a little bit later at night, and the people that
33:08
opened the door did not find the prank hilarious because they had young kids
33:12
and it was late at night. The person was in my office and they were saying, man, I know I blew it.
33:16
I know I did the wrong thing. That was so wrong. That was so bad of me.
33:19
And I just brought some awareness to ask them, do your friends that you were
33:24
going to do the prank on, did you end up telling them? And this person said, absolutely.
33:29
And I said, what did they say? Well, they said it would have been hilarious.
33:32
So then if you would have done it at that home, the thing you did would have
33:36
been hilarious, but you did it at another home that you thought was their home.
33:39
And because of the reaction of that person, now it was a bad thing.
33:43
And I just thought that was a really fascinating way to lay out that we're just doing and being.
33:47
And then if somebody says, I don't like the way you did that,
33:49
oh man, sorry, did I do it wrong?
33:51
Or if somebody says, I think the way you did that was amazing,
33:53
oh, well, thank you. So I guess I did that right.
33:56
So you're just doing and being. And then, especially when it comes to these
34:00
things that we haven't done before, the moves, the larger things in life.
34:04
Give yourself grace. It is going to be an opportunity for growth,
34:07
and you're going to be able to course correct along the way.
34:09
If you make a certain decision, and I'm not saying a wrong decision,
34:12
but one that then you find is not as beneficial or helpful, then you get to make another decision.
34:17
And you can make as many of those decisions as you would like.
34:19
Welcome to the world of adulting and being an adult human being.
34:23
Now, other people may take offense or take exception, and that's where I don't
34:27
want to sound dismissive saying, well, that is a them thing,
34:30
because I think we can look at that with curiosity. Well, hey,
34:32
tell me why this is is uncomfortable for you.
34:34
Like, I would love to process this with you and that will help me get better.
34:38
And maybe I can help shed some light on what I'm doing and it might help even
34:43
ease your anxiety a little bit.
34:46
But there's one story, there's several stories that I want to share.
34:49
I'll share a couple of them and then maybe we'll put some more in an episode down the road.
34:53
But this is one that will sound, I think, a little bit like not as big of a
34:57
deal as I made it into, to, but it was wonderful. So this was well into the moving process.
35:02
My wife did an amazing job packing and getting everything ready.
35:05
And she got so much packing material and there were a couple of flat screen
35:09
TVs that we had to put, and she bought these TV boxes and she was doing a million other things.
35:13
And then tasked me with, could I pack those up?
35:17
These flat screen TVs, here's some bubble wrap, here's these TV boxes.
35:21
And so it was a little bit late. I did have to get up early the next morning,
35:24
but I had said, I will do that. You bet. I will take care of that.
35:28
And then I noticed that my ADHD
35:31
was running wild with all the different things that needed to be done.
35:34
And I kept finding myself going off and doing smaller tasks.
35:37
But then I got finally to the packing up of the TVs.
35:41
And I will tell you, the emotional immaturity in me wanted to just scream and
35:46
come out and throw a fit because I wanted to say, okay, now it's too late and
35:49
I have to get up too early.
35:50
But this was one where I had said, I will do this.
35:53
And I want to build that trust and that emotional safety.
35:56
And one of the first things I recognized was and
35:59
this will sound so silly now but I wasn't exactly
36:02
sure how to put the boxes together and I found
36:05
myself wanting to go ask my wife who had bought the boxes
36:08
off of Amazon so then I'm sure she doesn't know either and I go back to what
36:13
I said earlier I'm an adult human being I think I can figure out a box with
36:16
a tape gun and lo and behold I did but then I found myself wanting to do that
36:20
again over and over with hey what's the best way to wrap these in bubble wrap
36:23
again she's never wrapped flat screen TVs in bubble wrap to put put them in moving boxes either.
36:28
So then I found myself doing it even though I didn't want to.
36:31
And I found myself wanting to just say, hey, you know what? It's been a late night.
36:34
I have to go to work tomorrow and leave that with her. But then I recognized,
36:37
man, that is part of what it would feel like to be in a relationship with somebody
36:42
that is emotionally inconsistent. That, hey, I'll take care of that until I can't.
36:45
And I know earlier I talked about a capacity issue, but I was aware this wasn't
36:49
a capacity issue. This was a, I don't want to do this anymore issue. you.
36:52
So with that said, I was able to finish this project, thank her for all the
36:56
things she was doing, and go to bed.
36:58
And it was one of my biggest challenges to not then share what a hero I was
37:03
to actually follow through on the thing that I could do and figure out how to
37:06
tape moving boxes together and wrap bubble wrap around flat screen TVs.
37:11
So I just thought that that was so fascinating and I learned so much about myself there.
37:15
And then, and just that discomfort, that desire for validation,
37:19
that wanting to be a little bit selfish of saying, okay, I know I said I would
37:23
do this earlier, but then I didn't manage my time well, so I need to put this on you.
37:27
And I, man, I just want to say I felt so bad because I know that those are things
37:31
that I've done in the past.
37:33
And then there were also plenty of opportunities for me to cart out the,
37:36
one of my favorite his sayings as well of the, I don't know what I don't know.
37:40
And especially with regard to things like the moving process,
37:43
everything from interacting with a realtor in Arizona and a mortgage broker there.
37:48
And there were times where I felt like both of them, who I really enjoyed working
37:51
with, as a matter of fact, I want to have the realtor on the podcast at some
37:55
point, his name is Roger Banning and have him just talk about that whole experience.
38:01
What I thought was one of the biggest takeaways from that experience,
38:04
the part in Arizona, was working with people who were asking me questions about
38:09
things that I really didn't know, that I didn't even know that I didn't know.
38:12
I certainly didn't understand because even though they are doing their jobs
38:16
that they do on a daily basis, that was the first time that I had interacted
38:20
with a realtor or a mortgage broker in, again, 20-something years.
38:25
And I found myself having to, in one sense, step outside of my ego go and it
38:31
was okay for me to not know or not understand things.
38:34
I had to accept the fact that I wanted to sometimes put a pause in and say,
38:38
let me go Google that so I can sound smart.
38:40
But instead just saying, hey, so help me understand, help me know what I don't know.
38:44
What are the right questions to ask? Or what are things that people typically ask in this situation?
38:49
And I found that the response from my realtor, Roger, and the mortgage broker,
38:53
Jeff, were both really, really helpful because I felt like at some point,
38:58
both of them were able to take a step back or a pause and say,
39:01
oh, okay, that's a really good question.
39:03
A lot of times, here's what people are looking at, and maybe here are the questions that people ask.
39:07
And I just really enjoyed that experience.
39:11
And it propelled me into whether we were talking to the people that we were
39:15
getting the moving van from, or people that were there to help literally pack the truck.
39:21
Hey, help me understand, what do you typically see here?
39:25
What's the the procedures, like what happens next? What do I not know that I don't know?
39:30
So I thought that was a tremendous opportunity for growth. There was some frustration as well.
39:35
And we tried to sell a lot of things on Facebook Marketplace.
39:39
And if you've already had experiences selling things on Facebook Marketplace,
39:43
then I think that you will absolutely love it.
39:46
I may not even need to say another word because I don't understand the psychology
39:51
of the people that are interacting with and selling and buying on Facebook Marketplace.
39:55
There were so many times. And then I went on to find there are memes,
40:00
there are shorts, videos, reels about this where someone would say, hey, is that available?
40:05
And I would say yes. And then they would never respond. Or there were a couple
40:09
of times where I would say yes, and they would say I'm on my way and they would
40:12
never get back to me, literally ever.
40:14
And my daughter, Mackie, had shown me one at one point that it was almost as
40:19
if somebody is driving by your house.
40:22
You've got something out on the driveway, maybe a garage sale.
40:26
They yell, hey, how much? And then you say, 10 bucks. And then they just speed off.
40:30
Or there was another one that we saw where somebody said, hey,
40:33
is this still available?
40:34
And then you say, yes. And then they chuck their phone into a lake.
40:38
I don't know if it's the dopamine bump of the chase or just getting people to commit.
40:42
Admit I'm not quite sure are keeping your options open
40:45
and even at the frustration of
40:48
those that are trying to sell things but anyway there was we were
40:52
trying to get rid of a piano and those are really difficult to
40:55
move and then they need to be tuned and so I didn't
40:57
realize that the piano market on Facebook if you're looking for a piano check
41:01
out Facebook marketplace and most people are trying to give them away and we
41:04
were trying to do that and we ended up having someone that took it eventually
41:07
but there were a lot of people that would just come back and ask for there was
41:12
one one person asked for videos and can you take a video playing it and how
41:15
much is away and what are the dimensions and what are the,
41:17
and I wasn't as engaged at that point,
41:20
but just then people just disappearing or one person went back and forth eventually
41:25
to finally let me know that they were willing to take it off,
41:28
off my hands for 300 bucks.
41:30
And that was a moment where I noticed that I still, I wanted to then stay engaged
41:35
with that person and then, and then make some snarky comment.
41:39
And then I realized, why?
41:40
I mean, here's my opportunity for growth to just acknowledge,
41:44
accept that that happened and move on.
41:46
And what was interesting is that person tried to reach back out and I almost
41:49
feel like just poke the bear a little bit more.
41:54
And because I thought, okay, maybe that is the way that they get somebody so
41:56
angry. And then I don't know, then the person says, come find,
41:59
come take it. But I'm only giving you 150. I don't even know.
42:02
So those, I think, were really these moments of, well, check that out.
42:05
That happened. not beating myself up, not ruminating, not feeling like I did
42:09
it wrong, that that was just the way that it happened. I will also.
42:14
Acknowledge that I led a little bit with this in the podcast today,
42:17
but acceptance doesn't mean apathy.
42:19
And that was with regard to podcasting, because I had every intention in the
42:23
world of even running best ofs or doing something to keep content coming out
42:28
there in on my podcast feeds for the various podcasts.
42:32
But I found that there were just other things going on a lot of things going
42:35
on. And so that acceptance just ended up being well, it just is.
42:39
And so I was accepting the fact that I wasn't having the consistency that I'd
42:44
always felt, not prided myself on.
42:46
But in the world of acceptance and commitment therapy, if I had a value of consistency,
42:50
then the yeah buts were, yeah, but maybe the podcast might be a rerun.
42:55
Maybe the podcast won't be something that is one of my current passions,
42:58
but it might just be a review of an article.
43:00
But that was the situation where it was that first time that I've ever been me in that situation.
43:05
And there was that acceptance that I was unable to podcast.
43:08
And I was grateful that it didn't bring up some feelings and emotions,
43:12
but then that acceptance was, okay, so now as soon as I can get back on the
43:16
proverbial podcasting horse and ride, then let's do it. So that is what we are doing right now.
43:21
There were a couple of other things I thought were really fascinating and one
43:24
of those was just the experience of renting a truck.
43:28
We got a U-Haul and it got the biggest one and we had no idea if that was gonna be enough or not enough,
43:36
if we would have more space than we could ever imagine, or if,
43:41
what would we do if we couldn't fill, if the U-Haul truck was completely filled.
43:45
But even better was when I got home on a Friday, and I was supposed to go pick
43:49
the truck up in the town that I was living at,
43:52
let's just say one o'clock, I get home at noon, and then I have a message that
43:56
had come in at, I think, 1030, and they said that, hey, you're a U-Haul,
43:59
and we're not sure why, but it's about an hour and 15 minutes away. Okay.
44:03
And we felt like we were a bit on a time crunch, and I called them back.
44:07
And that was one of those times where I wanted to be really angry and really frustrated.
44:11
And I had it on speakerphone, and my wife and daughter were in the room.
44:14
And I was just saying, I don't even know, I'm not even sure what happened,
44:17
because the reservation says here, four miles away from my house, and it's a long way away.
44:23
And he was saying, well, we'll give you a fuel credit, or we'll...
44:25
And I was saying, I appreciate that, but I'm just not really sure what to do with this information.
44:30
They transferred me to corporate. Turns out there was a truck really close by
44:33
and I was able to go get it.
44:35
And I was so happy that I didn't lose my mind or react, get overly aggressive
44:41
or any of those things that I really don't feel are in my nature.
44:43
But again, that was the first time that I have been ready to pack up and move.
44:48
And we were so prepared or we felt like we were prepared. So I was grateful
44:53
for that. But then we get the truck filled that night.
44:56
And even that was a really fascinating thing because we were able to get a couple
45:00
of movers that are recommended by a U-Haul. And they did an amazing job.
45:04
They said we will take over. They packed the truck just so well.
45:08
But at one point, my wife and daughter had gone out for food.
45:11
And then one of the movers comes up to me and says, hey, so it's starting to get a little tight.
45:16
So you might want to prioritize what's left. left. And I called my wife and
45:21
I'm saying, okay, here's what they're saying.
45:22
And we need to prioritize. And I'm not even really sure what that means.
45:27
We've got still a fair amount of things here. And then at that point,
45:31
I say, hey, I'll just take care of it.
45:33
And then I, in essence, hear the rolling door of the truck come down and they said, well, she's full.
45:38
And we still had a lot of things. So I wanted to be frustrated.
45:42
I wanted to be mad. I wanted to even say silly things like, but you guys said
45:46
you thought it would all fit, but they didn't know until they knew.
45:49
And, and that just was, it wasn't anybody's fault.
45:53
And at that point, then we had a decision to make. We were supposed to pull
45:55
out the next morning and leave and drive, but we had a lot of stuff left.
46:00
So we rented a second truck, a smaller one, and had to go pick that up the next
46:05
morning, spend the next day loading, got out at a much later time.
46:08
But there was so much just, this just is.
46:11
We need to take action. And I realized how often maybe in the past when you
46:16
just do feel defeated or this is that part where, okay, but it's your opportunity
46:21
to make a decision and it might not be validated right away.
46:26
And I'm not saying again that it's the wrong decision or the right decision, but it's the decision.
46:30
And now let's see how that works. So I think it turned out being the right decision
46:34
because we were able to get the truck loaded and leave, but we didn't know.
46:39
And we didn't know until we were in that experience.
46:42
So I could never imagine or guess what I would do in certain situations until
46:45
I'm in them, which I think is an interesting thing in couples therapy,
46:48
where you'll often have people that when they're trying to make a point,
46:51
they'll say, how would you like it if?
46:53
And I almost want to jump in and say, okay, let me take that one.
46:56
The person's going to say, well, they wouldn't care or it wouldn't be a big deal to them.
47:01
And it's because you really don't know what something's like until you are experiencing it.
47:05
And this is the point where even somebody that is trying to understand or trying
47:10
to be empathetic will never quite fully understand what that experience is like
47:14
for you. Let me wrap this up.
47:16
Life's unexpected twists and turns, they are obstacles and they are challenging.
47:21
And oftentimes they aren't fair, but they really are opportunities to learn
47:26
and to grow and to redefine your path.
47:28
And I think that one of the best things that one can do is even just start to
47:34
think of things in your life this way of, okay, how can I react to this?
47:39
Or how can I show up different?
47:40
Or what are the things that this can help me or teach me?
47:44
And I understand that some people are in marriages and relationships where there
47:48
is a lot of control and that can feel like you don't have a say. And I would love to...
47:55
To see you, if you're in that situation, be in a position or have the tools
47:59
or be in a relationship where you really can express yourself and be okay,
48:03
even if there is invalidation.
48:05
But I know that some people are not in that position. And that might even be
48:08
a lot of the people that are listening to a podcast like The Virtual Couch who
48:11
are trying to learn all they can about mental health.
48:14
And if that's the case, just know that even just starting to be aware that every
48:19
opportunity is an opportunity to self-confront or grow, or even just to be able
48:22
to say, okay, I would would love it if I could take this different step just
48:26
to be able to see what the yeah buts are that come up in your mind.
48:29
But ultimately, you're going through life. First time is you.
48:32
Check that out. These are decisions you're making. They're not wrong.
48:35
They're not necessarily right. They just are.
48:37
And they will guide you to the next opportunity that you have to make a decision.
48:42
So the decision I'm making now is there's more to that article,
48:46
but I'll throw a link to that that in the show notes.
48:49
And I think that it would be good to go read more of that because he does talk
48:55
a little bit more about things like procrastination and just more about the
48:58
concept of change being just as good as rest.
49:02
But if you have experiences that you have grown through that I would love to
49:07
hear them, I would love to do a follow-up episode and share people's stories.
49:09
So reach out, let me know about those experiences where you had to deal with
49:13
some extreme discomfort, but had that maybe helped with an awakening.
49:17
And I've saved this till the end, but if you're still listening,
49:21
I did put out on my newsletter on one of the podcasts last week that if I can
49:26
help, if you resonate with the things that I teach or the methods that I use,
49:30
there might be an opportunity to work together.
49:32
So I would encourage you to shoot me an email, tell me more about your situation.
49:36
And if that is something that you're looking for, some counseling,
49:39
coaching, that sort sort of thing, then reach out to contact at tonyoverbay.com
49:43
and tell me a little bit more about your situation and yourself.
49:46
All right. Thank you for your patience. Thanks for hanging in there.
49:50
And I appreciate all the support that has been there through the first 419 episodes.
49:56
And here's to another 400 and something more to go.
50:00
All right. Have an amazing week. Taking us out per usual, the wonderful,
50:03
the talented Aurora Florence with her song, It's Wonderful. We'll see you next week on The Virtual Cat.
50:07
Music.