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From Firewood to Enlightenment: The Remarkable Story of Hui Neng · The Living Conversation

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:15
  I'm
• 0:15
  Anthony
• 0:15
  Wright
• 0:16
  and
• 0:16
  I
• 0:17
  am
• 0:17
  your
• 0:17
  co
• 0:17
  host
• 0:18
  on
• 0:18
  the
• 0:18
  Living
• 0:19
  Conversation
• 0:19
  with
• 0:20
  Adam
• 0:21
  Dietz.
• 0:22
  And
• 0:22
  Adam,
• 0:22
  before
• 0:22
  the
• 0:23
  break,
• 0:23
  we
• 0:23
  were
• 0:23
  talking
• 0:24
  about
• 0:27
  the
• 0:27
  first
• 0:27
  patriarch
• 0:28
  of
• 0:28
  10
• 0:29
  and
• 0:31
  10
• 0:32
  Buddhism
• 0:33
  was
• 0:33
  a
• 0:33
  combination
• 0:35
  and
• 0:35
  I
• 0:35
  believe
• 0:35
  it
• 0:36
  was
• 0:41
  Karuma
• 0:42
  Jiva
• 0:43
  was
• 0:43
  the
• 0:43
  Indian
• 0:43
  monk
• 0:44
  that
• 0:44
  came
• 0:44
  to
• 0:44
  China.
• 0:46
  And
• 0:46
  the
• 0:46
  Bodhidharma,
• 0:47
  I
• 0:48
  don't
• 0:48
  know.
• 0:51
  So
• 0:51
  10
• 0:51
  Buddhism
• 0:52
  is
• 0:52
  a
• 0:52
  combination
• 0:54
  of
• 0:54
  Taoism
• 0:55
  and
• 0:55
  Buddhism.
• 0:58
  And
• 0:58
  Huyning
• 0:59
  as
• 0:59
  the
• 0:59
  first
• 1:00
  patriarch
• 1:03
  was
• 1:04
  a.
• 1:05
  I
• 1:05
  think
• 1:05
  he
• 1:05
  was
• 1:05
  a
• 1:06
  dishwasher.
• 1:07
  He
• 1:08
  just
• 1:08
  gathered
• 1:08
  sticks
• 1:09
  for,
• 1:09
  for
• 1:10
  kindling,
• 1:10
  for
• 1:10
  firewood.
• 1:12
  But
• 1:13
  wasn't
• 1:13
  he
• 1:13
  a
• 1:13
  dishwasher
• 1:14
  in
• 1:14
  the
• 1:14
  monastery?
• 1:15
  And.
• 1:15
  Oh,
• 1:16
  he
• 1:16
  maybe
• 1:17
  he
• 1:17
  also,
• 1:17
  he
• 1:17
  also
• 1:18
  milled
• 1:19
  the
• 1:19
  rice.
• 1:20
  Oh
• 1:20
  that's
• 1:20
  right.
• 1:21
  That's
• 1:21
  right.
• 1:22
  Well,
• 1:22
  talk
• 1:22
  to
• 1:23
  us
• 1:23
  about
• 1:23
  what
• 1:23
  you
• 1:23
  remember
• 1:24
  about
• 1:24
  Huning.
• 1:26
  Well,
• 1:26
  Hui
• 1:26
  Nang's
• 1:27
  story
• 1:28
  is
• 1:28
  the
• 1:28
  beginning,
• 1:29
  is
• 1:29
  one
• 1:29
  of
• 1:29
  the
• 1:31
  truly
• 1:32
  unique
• 1:33
  scenario.
• 1:35
  I
• 1:35
  don't
• 1:36
  want
• 1:36
  to
• 1:36
  know
• 1:36
  how
• 1:36
  much
• 1:37
  to
• 1:37
  get
• 1:37
  into
• 1:37
  it.
• 1:37
  But
• 1:37
  basically
• 1:39
  he
• 1:39
  had
• 1:39
  the
• 1:40
  worst
• 1:40
  fate
• 1:41
  because
• 1:41
  everyone
• 1:41
  wanted
• 1:42
  to
• 1:42
  be
• 1:42
  at
• 1:42
  the
• 1:42
  heart
• 1:42
  of
• 1:43
  culture
• 1:44
  and
• 1:44
  so
• 1:44
  to
• 1:44
  be.
• 1:44
  His
• 1:45
  father
• 1:45
  was
• 1:45
  ostracized
• 1:46
  from
• 1:46
  the
• 1:47
  capital.
• 1:48
  Oh
• 1:48
  really?
• 1:48
  Through
• 1:48
  political
• 1:49
  intrigue,
• 1:49
  I
• 1:49
  believe.
• 1:49
  I
• 1:50
  didn't
• 1:50
  know
• 1:50
  that.
• 1:50
  And
• 1:51
  so
• 1:51
  he
• 1:51
  had
• 1:51
  to
• 1:52
  go
• 1:52
  to
• 1:52
  far
• 1:52
  south
• 1:53
  of
• 1:53
  China,
• 1:53
  Guangdong
• 1:54
  province.
• 1:55
  And
• 1:55
  so
• 1:55
  the
• 1:56
  farther
• 1:56
  you
• 1:56
  were
• 1:56
  from
• 1:56
  the
• 1:57
  capital
• 1:57
  this
• 1:57
  time,
• 1:57
  the
• 1:58
  less
• 1:58
  you
• 1:58
  felt
• 1:58
  connected
• 1:59
  to
• 1:59
  the
• 1:59
  cultural
• 1:59
  life
• 1:59
  and
• 2:00
  heartbeat.
• 2:00
  Right,
• 2:01
  right.
• 2:01
  Really
• 2:02
  going
• 2:02
  on.
• 2:02
  And
• 2:02
  so
• 2:02
  it
• 2:03
  was
• 2:03
  really
• 2:03
  difficult.
• 2:04
  So
• 2:04
  people,
• 2:05
  the
• 2:05
  further
• 2:05
  you
• 2:05
  were
• 2:06
  from
• 2:06
  the
• 2:06
  capital,
• 2:06
  I
• 2:07
  call
• 2:07
  you
• 2:07
  barbarian.
• 2:09
  Right.
• 2:09
  So
• 2:11
  his
• 2:11
  father
• 2:11
  actually
• 2:12
  not
• 2:12
  only
• 2:12
  was
• 2:13
  ostracized
• 2:13
  with
• 2:13
  his
• 2:14
  family
• 2:14
  and
• 2:14
  his
• 2:14
  wife
• 2:15
  and
• 2:15
  his
• 2:15
  son
• 2:16
  to
• 2:16
  Guangdong
• 2:16
  province,
• 2:17
  but
• 2:17
  his
• 2:17
  father
• 2:17
  also
• 2:18
  died
• 2:18
  when
• 2:18
  Huang
• 2:19
  was
• 2:19
  very
• 2:19
  young.
• 2:20
  So
• 2:21
  now
• 2:21
  Huang
• 2:21
  has
• 2:22
  no
• 2:22
  father.
• 2:23
  Huang
• 2:24
  actually
• 2:24
  is,
• 2:24
  has
• 2:25
  no
• 2:25
  education.
• 2:26
  He's
• 2:26
  illiterate.
• 2:27
  Illiterate.
• 2:29
  All
• 2:29
  he
• 2:29
  can
• 2:29
  do
• 2:30
  is
• 2:30
  the
• 2:31
  lowest
• 2:31
  job
• 2:31
  is
• 2:32
  like
• 2:32
  going,
• 2:32
  you
• 2:33
  know,
• 2:33
  if
• 2:34
  someone
• 2:34
  has
• 2:34
  no
• 2:34
  job,
• 2:35
  one
• 2:35
  thing
• 2:35
  they
• 2:35
  used
• 2:35
  to
• 2:35
  do
• 2:36
  in
• 2:36
  the
• 2:36
  80s
• 2:36
  and
• 2:37
  90s,
• 2:37
  they
• 2:37
  would
• 2:37
  go
• 2:37
  to
• 2:38
  wash
• 2:38
  your
• 2:38
  car
• 2:38
  windshield
• 2:39
  at
• 2:39
  a
• 2:39
  stoplight
• 2:40
  and
• 2:40
  try
• 2:40
  to
• 2:40
  get
• 2:40
  some
• 2:41
  money.
• 2:41
  So
• 2:42
  the,
• 2:42
  the
• 2:42
  ver.
• 2:42
  The
• 2:42
  ancient
• 2:43
  Chinese
• 2:43
  Guangdong
• 2:44
  version
• 2:44
  of
• 2:44
  this
• 2:44
  was,
• 2:44
  this
• 2:45
  is
• 2:45
  around
• 2:45
  a
• 2:45
  thousand
• 2:45
  A.D.
• 2:47
  was
• 2:47
  you
• 2:47
  just
• 2:47
  go
• 2:47
  into
• 2:47
  the
• 2:48
  forest,
• 2:48
  you
• 2:48
  gather
• 2:48
  sticks
• 2:49
  and
• 2:49
  you
• 2:49
  bring
• 2:50
  them
• 2:50
  back
• 2:50
  to
• 2:50
  sell
• 2:50
  for
• 2:51
  people
• 2:51
  to
• 2:51
  have
• 2:51
  for
• 2:51
  fuel.
• 2:53
  So
• 2:53
  this
• 2:54
  is
• 2:54
  very
• 2:54
  low
• 2:54
  job
• 2:55
  for
• 2:55
  Huineng
• 2:56
  and
• 2:56
  he
• 2:56
  has
• 2:56
  no
• 2:57
  education
• 2:58
  at
• 2:58
  this
• 2:59
  time.
• 3:00
  Buddhism
• 3:00
  is
• 3:01
  flourishing.
• 3:02
  All
• 3:02
  people
• 3:03
  throughout
• 3:03
  the
• 3:04
  country
• 3:04
  are
• 3:04
  so
• 3:05
  intrigued
• 3:05
  with
• 3:05
  this
• 3:06
  high
• 3:06
  level
• 3:07
  mind.
• 3:07
  I
• 3:08
  also
• 3:08
  agree
• 3:09
  that
• 3:10
  Buddhism,
• 3:11
  Zen
• 3:11
  Buddhism
• 3:11
  came
• 3:12
  out
• 3:12
  of
• 3:12
  Taoism.
• 3:12
  I
• 3:12
  also
• 3:13
  feel
• 3:13
  like
• 3:13
  Confucianism
• 3:14
  because
• 3:14
  Confucianism
• 3:15
  was
• 3:16
  having
• 3:16
  this
• 3:17
  conversation,
• 3:18
  this
• 3:18
  teaching
• 3:19
  individual
• 3:20
  Confucius
• 3:20
  would
• 3:20
  teach
• 3:21
  each
• 3:21
  student
• 3:21
  individually
• 3:22
  to
• 3:22
  their
• 3:22
  nature
• 3:23
  and
• 3:23
  Zen
• 3:23
  Buddhism,
• 3:24
  you
• 3:24
  will
• 3:24
  see,
• 3:25
  really
• 3:25
  does
• 3:25
  that.
• 3:26
  Oh,
• 3:27
  right.
• 3:27
  And,
• 3:28
  and,
• 3:28
  and
• 3:28
  Confucius
• 3:29
  gave
• 3:30
  a
• 3:30
  value
• 3:30
  of
• 3:31
  self
• 3:31
  cultivation,
• 3:33
  education.
• 3:34
  So
• 3:34
  people
• 3:34
  all
• 3:35
  throughout
• 3:35
  the
• 3:35
  country
• 3:35
  here,
• 3:36
  oh
• 3:36
  my
• 3:36
  goodness,
• 3:36
  the
• 3:37
  enlightenment
• 3:38
  mind,
• 3:38
  the
• 3:38
  highest
• 3:39
  level
• 3:39
  of
• 3:39
  humanity
• 3:40
  is
• 3:40
  in
• 3:40
  Buddhism.
• 3:41
  I
• 3:41
  want
• 3:41
  to
• 3:41
  go
• 3:42
  run
• 3:42
  to
• 3:42
  this
• 3:43
  monastery
• 3:43
  and
• 3:43
  devote
• 3:44
  my
• 3:44
  life
• 3:44
  to
• 3:44
  my
• 3:44
  highest
• 3:45
  level
• 3:45
  mind.
• 3:46
  So
• 3:46
  at
• 3:46
  this
• 3:47
  time,
• 3:47
  there's
• 3:47
  a
• 3:47
  rush
• 3:48
  to
• 3:48
  go
• 3:48
  into
• 3:48
  a
• 3:48
  monastery
• 3:49
  and
• 3:49
  learn
• 3:50
  deeply
• 3:50
  study
• 3:51
  all
• 3:51
  the
• 3:51
  scriptures
• 3:52
  called
• 3:52
  sutras
• 3:53
  of
• 3:53
  Buddhism.
• 3:54
  But
• 3:55
  Huang
• 3:55
  is
• 3:56
  as
• 3:56
  far
• 3:56
  from
• 3:57
  this
• 3:57
  as
• 3:57
  possible.
• 3:58
  These
• 3:59
  are
• 3:59
  all
• 3:59
  very
• 3:59
  high
• 3:59
  minded
• 4:00
  people
• 4:00
  that
• 4:00
  had
• 4:01
  status
• 4:01
  and
• 4:01
  wealth
• 4:02
  and
• 4:02
  education
• 4:02
  that
• 4:02
  go
• 4:02
  to
• 4:03
  the
• 4:03
  monastery.
• 4:03
  Hung
• 4:04
  is
• 4:04
  far
• 4:05
  from
• 4:05
  this
• 4:06
  all
• 4:07
  in
• 4:07
  that
• 4:07
  context.
• 4:08
  What
• 4:09
  happens
• 4:09
  next
• 4:09
  in
• 4:09
  the
• 4:09
  story
• 4:10
  is
• 4:10
  remarkable
• 4:11
  and
• 4:12
  legendary.
• 4:14
  One
• 4:16
  Abbott
• 4:17
  sent
• 4:18
  out
• 4:18
  his
• 4:18
  monks
• 4:19
  to
• 4:19
  go
• 4:20
  and
• 4:21
  recite
• 4:22
  Diamond
• 4:22
  Sutra
• 4:23
  across
• 4:23
  the
• 4:23
  land.
• 4:24
  Diamond
• 4:24
  Sutra?
• 4:25
  Diamond
• 4:25
  Sutra.
• 4:26
  And
• 4:26
  the
• 4:26
  Diamond
• 4:26
  Sutra
• 4:27
  was
• 4:27
  a
• 4:28
  text
• 4:28
  that
• 4:28
  was
• 4:29
  supposed,
• 4:29
  supposed
• 4:30
  to
• 4:30
  cut
• 4:30
  through
• 4:31
  the
• 4:31
  hardest.
• 4:35
  Yeah,
• 4:35
  it
• 4:35
  would
• 4:36
  cut
• 4:36
  through
• 4:36
  it.
• 4:37
  Yep.
• 4:37
  Yeah,
• 4:38
  yeah.
• 4:39
  So
• 4:39
  diamond,
• 4:40
  it's
• 4:40
  called
• 4:40
  Diamond
• 4:40
  Sutra
• 4:41
  because
• 4:41
  like
• 4:41
  Anthony
• 4:41
  said,
• 4:42
  like
• 4:42
  you're
• 4:42
  saying
• 4:43
  it
• 4:43
  is
• 4:44
  the
• 4:44
  hardest
• 4:45
  thing.
• 4:45
  And
• 4:45
  we'll
• 4:46
  get
• 4:46
  to
• 4:46
  what
• 4:46
  it
• 4:47
  can
• 4:47
  cut
• 4:47
  in
• 4:48
  a
• 4:48
  minute.
• 4:48
  Because
• 4:48
  Hui
• 4:49
  then
• 4:50
  is
• 4:51
  finishing
• 4:51
  up
• 4:52
  a
• 4:52
  delivery
• 4:52
  of
• 4:52
  firewood
• 4:53
  from
• 4:53
  one
• 4:53
  of
• 4:53
  his
• 4:54
  businesses.
• 4:54
  They,
• 4:55
  they
• 4:55
  take
• 4:55
  good
• 4:55
  care
• 4:55
  of
• 4:55
  him.
• 4:56
  They
• 4:56
  say,
• 4:56
  bring
• 4:56
  us
• 4:56
  a
• 4:56
  firewood,
• 4:57
  we'll
• 4:57
  pay
• 4:57
  you.
• 4:57
  It's
• 4:57
  almost
• 4:58
  like
• 4:58
  charity.
• 4:58
  Right?
• 5:00
  Then
• 5:00
  he
• 5:01
  walks
• 5:01
  out
• 5:01
  of
• 5:01
  that
• 5:02
  delivery
• 5:02
  and
• 5:02
  he
• 5:03
  hears
• 5:03
  a
• 5:03
  diamond
• 5:04
  sutra.
• 5:04
  Oh,
• 5:05
  yeah.
• 5:06
  He's
• 5:06
  illiterate,
• 5:07
  can't
• 5:07
  read
• 5:07
  it,
• 5:07
  but
• 5:07
  he
• 5:07
  hears
• 5:08
  it.
• 5:08
  In
• 5:08
  that
• 5:08
  moment,
• 5:09
  he
• 5:10
  achieves
• 5:10
  instant
• 5:11
  enlightenment.
• 5:14
  Because
• 5:15
  the
• 5:15
  Diamond
• 5:16
  Sutra
• 5:16
  is
• 5:17
  meant
• 5:17
  to
• 5:17
  cut
• 5:18
  through
• 5:18
  the
• 5:18
  hardest
• 5:19
  thing
• 5:19
  in
• 5:19
  the
• 5:19
  world.
• 5:20
  Diamond
• 5:20
  cutter
• 5:21
  Sutra,
• 5:21
  like
• 5:21
  a
• 5:21
  diamond
• 5:21
  sword
• 5:22
  can
• 5:22
  cut
• 5:22
  off
• 5:22
  your
• 5:23
  ego
• 5:25
  in
• 5:25
  an
• 5:26
  instant.
• 5:26
  You
• 5:26
  can
• 5:26
  have
• 5:27
  no
• 5:27
  ego.
• 5:28
  So
• 5:28
  when
• 5:29
  then
• 5:29
  here's
• 5:29
  this.
• 5:29
  And
• 5:30
  he
• 5:31
  is
• 5:31
  enlightened.
• 5:33
  Remarkable.
• 5:33
  Remarkable.
• 5:34
  So
• 5:35
  he
• 5:35
  asked
• 5:35
  this
• 5:35
  monk,
• 5:36
  what
• 5:36
  are
• 5:36
  you
• 5:36
  doing?
• 5:37
  Where
• 5:37
  did
• 5:37
  you
• 5:37
  come
• 5:37
  from?
• 5:37
  What
• 5:38
  are
• 5:38
  these
• 5:38
  words?
• 5:39
  And
• 5:39
  the
• 5:39
  monk
• 5:40
  tell
• 5:40
  them,
• 5:40
  I
• 5:41
  am
• 5:41
  a
• 5:41
  monk
• 5:41
  from
• 5:42
  this
• 5:42
  monastery
• 5:42
  of,
• 5:43
  you
• 5:44
  know,
• 5:44
  a
• 5:44
  few
• 5:44
  months
• 5:45
  journey
• 5:45
  away
• 5:46
  by
• 5:46
  foot.
• 5:47
  I've
• 5:48
  been
• 5:49
  taught,
• 5:49
  told
• 5:49
  by
• 5:49
  the
• 5:50
  abbot
• 5:50
  to
• 5:50
  recite
• 5:51
  this
• 5:51
  is
• 5:51
  the
• 5:51
  Diamond
• 5:52
  Sutra,
• 5:52
  and
• 5:53
  explains
• 5:53
  to
• 5:53
  him,
• 5:53
  diamond
• 5:54
  Sutra.
• 5:54
  So
• 5:55
  the,
• 5:55
  the
• 5:56
  neighbors
• 5:57
  and
• 5:57
  the
• 5:57
  monk
• 5:58
  and
• 5:58
  the
• 5:58
  business
• 5:59
  owner
• 5:59
  encouraged
• 6:00
  Hui
• 6:00
  Nang
• 6:01
  to
• 6:01
  go
• 6:01
  with
• 6:01
  the
• 6:02
  monk
• 6:02
  back
• 6:02
  to
• 6:03
  this
• 6:03
  monastery.
• 6:04
  They
• 6:05
  realized
• 6:05
  he
• 6:05
  had
• 6:06
  a
• 6:06
  really,
• 6:07
  truly
• 6:08
  unique
• 6:08
  experience
• 6:09
  and
• 6:09
  that
• 6:10
  he
• 6:10
  should
• 6:10
  go
• 6:11
  investigate
• 6:12
  this.
• 6:12
  So
• 6:13
  Hui
• 6:13
  Neng
• 6:13
  goes.
• 6:14
  He
• 6:14
  gets
• 6:14
  everything
• 6:15
  set
• 6:15
  up
• 6:15
  so
• 6:15
  his
• 6:15
  mother
• 6:15
  can
• 6:15
  be
• 6:16
  taken
• 6:16
  care
• 6:16
  of.
• 6:17
  They
• 6:17
  all
• 6:17
  kind
• 6:18
  of
• 6:18
  sponsor
• 6:18
  him
• 6:18
  to
• 6:18
  go.
• 6:19
  So
• 6:19
  he
• 6:19
  goes
• 6:19
  in
• 6:20
  this,
• 6:20
  this,
• 6:20
  I
• 6:20
  believe
• 6:20
  it's
• 6:21
  a
• 6:21
  month
• 6:21
  or
• 6:21
  two
• 6:22
  long
• 6:22
  journey
• 6:22
  through
• 6:23
  the
• 6:23
  mountains
• 6:23
  of
• 6:23
  southern
• 6:23
  China
• 6:24
  to
• 6:24
  get
• 6:25
  to
• 6:25
  central
• 6:25
  China.
• 6:26
  I
• 6:26
  believe
• 6:29
  I've
• 6:29
  been
• 6:29
  there.
• 6:29
  It's
• 6:30
  Very
• 6:30
  beautiful,
• 6:30
  but
• 6:30
  also
• 6:31
  very
• 6:31
  treacherous
• 6:32
  terrain
• 6:32
  to
• 6:32
  try
• 6:32
  and
• 6:32
  navigate.
• 6:33
  Lots
• 6:33
  of
• 6:33
  mountains.
• 6:34
  Yeah.
• 6:35
  Travel
• 6:35
  was
• 6:36
  really
• 6:36
  a
• 6:37
  treacherous.
• 6:37
  Of
• 6:37
  a
• 6:37
  dangerous
• 6:38
  thing
• 6:38
  in
• 6:39
  those
• 6:39
  days,
• 6:39
  right?
• 6:40
  Bandits
• 6:40
  and
• 6:41
  things
• 6:41
  like
• 6:41
  this.
• 6:41
  Yeah,
• 6:42
  yeah.
• 6:42
  But
• 6:42
  so
• 6:42
  he
• 6:42
  makes
• 6:43
  a
• 6:43
  big
• 6:43
  effort.
• 6:44
  And
• 6:44
  when
• 6:44
  he
• 6:44
  arrives,
• 6:45
  he
• 6:45
  has
• 6:45
  a
• 6:46
  conversation
• 6:46
  with
• 6:46
  the.
• 6:47
  The
• 6:47
  head
• 6:47
  Abbott
• 6:48
  and,
• 6:48
  and.
• 6:48
  And
• 6:49
  the
• 6:49
  head
• 6:49
  Abbott
• 6:49
  says,
• 6:50
  what
• 6:50
  are
• 6:50
  you
• 6:50
  doing
• 6:50
  here,
• 6:50
  barbarian?
• 6:52
  And
• 6:52
  he
• 6:52
  says.
• 6:53
  He
• 6:53
  says,
• 6:54
  I
• 6:54
  have
• 6:54
  seen
• 6:55
  the
• 6:55
  true
• 6:56
  nature
• 6:56
  of
• 6:56
  my
• 6:56
  mind.
• 6:57
  Something
• 6:57
  like
• 6:57
  this,
• 6:58
  the
• 6:58
  essence
• 6:58
  of
• 6:58
  mind.
• 7:00
  And
• 7:00
  the
• 7:00
  ad
• 7:01
  instantly
• 7:01
  sees.
• 7:01
  Oh,
• 7:03
  they
• 7:03
  have
• 7:03
  a
• 7:04
  conversation
• 7:04
  like
• 7:04
  a
• 7:04
  con.
• 7:05
  And
• 7:05
  he
• 7:05
  said,
• 7:06
  oh,
• 7:06
  he's
• 7:06
  very
• 7:06
  enlightened,
• 7:07
  but
• 7:08
  he's
• 7:08
  a
• 7:09
  barbarian.
• 7:10
  Everyone
• 7:10
  will
• 7:10
  be
• 7:10
  jealous.
• 7:11
  And
• 7:11
  it
• 7:11
  will.
• 7:12
  It
• 7:12
  will
• 7:12
  make
• 7:12
  a
• 7:13
  big
• 7:13
  uproar
• 7:13
  because
• 7:13
  people
• 7:14
  here
• 7:14
  have
• 7:14
  been
• 7:14
  dedicating
• 7:15
  their
• 7:15
  lives
• 7:15
  for
• 7:15
  years
• 7:16
  to
• 7:17
  cultivate
• 7:17
  enlightenment,
• 7:18
  to
• 7:18
  learn
• 7:18
  Buddhism
• 7:19
  every
• 7:19
  day,
• 7:19
  meditate
• 7:20
  every
• 7:20
  day,
• 7:20
  study
• 7:21
  scripture.
• 7:21
  And
• 7:22
  here
• 7:22
  comes
• 7:22
  someone,
• 7:22
  a
• 7:23
  barbarian
• 7:23
  just
• 7:24
  walking
• 7:24
  with
• 7:24
  no
• 7:24
  education.
• 7:25
  He
• 7:25
  can
• 7:25
  be
• 7:25
  in
• 7:26
  enlightened.
• 7:26
  It
• 7:26
  will
• 7:26
  throw
• 7:27
  everything
• 7:27
  upside
• 7:28
  down.
• 7:28
  So
• 7:28
  he
• 7:28
  tells
• 7:28
  him,
• 7:29
  oh,
• 7:30
  this
• 7:30
  barbarian
• 7:30
  is
• 7:31
  too
• 7:31
  bright.
• 7:31
  Go
• 7:32
  over
• 7:32
  and
• 7:32
  just
• 7:33
  shuck
• 7:34
  the
• 7:34
  rice
• 7:35
  away
• 7:35
  from
• 7:35
  the
• 7:35
  monastery.
• 7:36
  Go
• 7:36
  take
• 7:37
  care
• 7:37
  of
• 7:37
  us.
• 7:37
  The.
• 7:38
  The
• 7:38
  neighboring
• 7:38
  building
• 7:39
  next
• 7:39
  door.
• 7:39
  Part
• 7:39
  of
• 7:40
  our.
• 7:40
  Our
• 7:40
  development
• 7:41
  here,
• 7:41
  where
• 7:42
  you
• 7:42
  just
• 7:42
  got
• 7:42
  to
• 7:42
  shuck
• 7:42
  the
• 7:43
  rice
• 7:43
  and
• 7:43
  stay
• 7:43
  out
• 7:43
  of
• 7:43
  here.
• 7:46
  So
• 7:46
  Hung
• 7:47
  H
• 7:47
  does
• 7:47
  this
• 7:47
  for
• 7:48
  months.
• 7:48
  For
• 7:48
  months.
• 7:51
  The
• 7:51
  next.
• 7:51
  The
• 7:51
  next
• 7:52
  thing
• 7:52
  that
• 7:52
  happens
• 7:53
  in
• 7:53
  the
• 7:53
  monastery
• 7:54
  is
• 7:54
  that
• 7:54
  the
• 7:54
  head
• 7:55
  abbot,
• 7:56
  he
• 7:56
  has
• 7:56
  basically
• 7:56
  a
• 7:57
  contest.
• 7:57
  Right?
• 7:59
  Everyone,
• 8:00
  you
• 8:00
  write
• 8:00
  a
• 8:01
  poem.
• 8:01
  If
• 8:02
  it's
• 8:02
  good
• 8:03
  stanza,
• 8:04
  then
• 8:04
  I
• 8:04
  will
• 8:05
  give
• 8:05
  you
• 8:06
  the.
• 8:07
  The
• 8:07
  symbol
• 8:07
  of
• 8:08
  my.
• 8:08
  My
• 8:08
  patriarchy.
• 8:09
  The
• 8:09
  highest
• 8:09
  level
• 8:10
  Zen.
• 8:11
  Sorry,
• 8:11
  Buddhist
• 8:11
  monk
• 8:12
  of
• 8:12
  this
• 8:12
  Abbott,
• 8:13
  the
• 8:13
  abbot,
• 8:13
  the
• 8:14
  symbol
• 8:14
  of
• 8:14
  me.
• 8:15
  Right.
• 8:15
  I'll
• 8:15
  pass
• 8:15
  on
• 8:16
  the
• 8:16
  lineage
• 8:16
  to
• 8:16
  you.
• 8:18
  This
• 8:18
  also
• 8:18
  has
• 8:19
  to
• 8:19
  do
• 8:19
  with
• 8:19
  a
• 8:19
  story
• 8:19
  called
• 8:20
  record
• 8:20
  of
• 8:20
  transmission
• 8:20
  of
• 8:21
  the
• 8:21
  lamp.
• 8:22
  Oh,
• 8:22
  right,
• 8:22
  exactly.
• 8:23
  I'll
• 8:24
  transmit
• 8:24
  to
• 8:24
  you
• 8:25
  the
• 8:25
  symbol
• 8:26
  robe
• 8:26
  and
• 8:26
  bull
• 8:27
  and
• 8:27
  the
• 8:27
  true
• 8:28
  dharma
• 8:28
  enlightenment
• 8:29
  if
• 8:29
  you
• 8:29
  write
• 8:29
  a
• 8:29
  good
• 8:30
  stanza.
• 8:30
  So
• 8:31
  everyone
• 8:31
  says,
• 8:31
  okay,
• 8:32
  I
• 8:32
  only
• 8:32
  know
• 8:32
  there's
• 8:32
  one
• 8:33
  student
• 8:34
  in
• 8:34
  this
• 8:34
  whole
• 8:34
  place
• 8:34
  that
• 8:34
  can
• 8:35
  even
• 8:35
  possibly
• 8:35
  pull
• 8:36
  this
• 8:36
  off.
• 8:36
  I
• 8:36
  think
• 8:36
  his
• 8:37
  name
• 8:37
  is
• 8:37
  Sensue.
• 8:38
  Right.
• 8:38
  And
• 8:38
  the
• 8:38
  Dharma,
• 8:39
  by
• 8:39
  the
• 8:39
  way,
• 8:39
  is
• 8:40
  translated
• 8:40
  as
• 8:41
  the
• 8:41
  law,
• 8:41
  but
• 8:41
  it's
• 8:42
  the
• 8:42
  way
• 8:42
  of
• 8:42
  Buddhism.
• 8:43
  Is
• 8:44
  that
• 8:44
  right?
• 8:44
  Right.
• 8:45
  The
• 8:45
  highest
• 8:45
  level
• 8:45
  truth,
• 8:46
  the
• 8:46
  enlightenment.
• 8:47
  Yeah,
• 8:48
  yeah,
• 8:49
  definitely.
• 8:50
  So
• 8:51
  no
• 8:51
  one
• 8:51
  even
• 8:52
  bothers.
• 8:52
  And
• 8:52
  even
• 8:52
  this
• 8:53
  one
• 8:53
  most
• 8:53
  talented
• 8:54
  monk
• 8:54
  who
• 8:54
  everyone
• 8:55
  thinks
• 8:55
  will
• 8:55
  could
• 8:56
  possibly
• 8:56
  put
• 8:56
  us.
• 8:57
  Sensue,
• 8:57
  I
• 8:57
  think,
• 8:57
  is
• 8:58
  his
• 8:58
  name.
• 8:59
  He
• 9:00
  even
• 9:00
  is
• 9:00
  very
• 9:01
  hesitant.
• 9:02
  He
• 9:02
  is
• 9:02
  so
• 9:02
  fearful
• 9:03
  that
• 9:03
  he'll
• 9:03
  write
• 9:03
  a
• 9:03
  stanza
• 9:04
  that's
• 9:04
  not
• 9:04
  good
• 9:04
  enough.
• 9:05
  He
• 9:05
  doesn't
• 9:05
  even
• 9:05
  want
• 9:05
  to
• 9:05
  do
• 9:06
  it.
• 9:07
  So
• 9:07
  he
• 9:07
  just
• 9:08
  goes
• 9:08
  into
• 9:08
  one
• 9:08
  corridor
• 9:10
  or
• 9:11
  hall,
• 9:11
  maybe
• 9:12
  meditation
• 9:12
  hall.
• 9:13
  I'm
• 9:13
  not
• 9:13
  sure
• 9:13
  what
• 9:13
  kind
• 9:13
  of
• 9:13
  hall,
• 9:14
  but
• 9:14
  one
• 9:14
  of
• 9:14
  the
• 9:14
  halls
• 9:14
  of
• 9:15
  The.
• 9:15
  Of
• 9:15
  the
• 9:16
  monastery
• 9:17
  that's
• 9:17
  being
• 9:18
  repainted.
• 9:18
  So
• 9:18
  it's
• 9:18
  like
• 9:19
  they
• 9:19
  have
• 9:19
  primer
• 9:19
  on
• 9:19
  the
• 9:20
  wall.
• 9:20
  So
• 9:21
  he
• 9:21
  goes
• 9:21
  up
• 9:21
  to
• 9:21
  this
• 9:21
  primer
• 9:22
  and
• 9:22
  he
• 9:22
  writes
• 9:22
  his
• 9:22
  poem
• 9:23
  on
• 9:23
  there,
• 9:23
  thinking,
• 9:23
  okay,
• 9:24
  if
• 9:24
  it's
• 9:24
  good,
• 9:25
  then
• 9:25
  I
• 9:25
  can
• 9:25
  say
• 9:25
  it's
• 9:26
  mine.
• 9:26
  If
• 9:26
  it's
• 9:27
  bad,
• 9:27
  and
• 9:27
  the
• 9:27
  Abbott
• 9:27
  said,
• 9:27
  this
• 9:28
  is
• 9:28
  bad,
• 9:28
  I'll
• 9:28
  just
• 9:29
  hide
• 9:29
  and
• 9:30
  be
• 9:30
  shy.
• 9:30
  Paint
• 9:31
  over
• 9:31
  it.
• 9:32
  Yeah,
• 9:32
  yeah.
• 9:32
  So
• 9:33
  he
• 9:33
  writes
• 9:33
  a
• 9:33
  poem
• 9:34
  on
• 9:34
  the
• 9:35
  wall.
• 9:35
  It
• 9:36
  is
• 9:36
  the.
• 9:37
  The
• 9:38
  mind
• 9:39
  is
• 9:39
  like
• 9:39
  a
• 9:39
  mirror.
• 9:40
  Bright.
• 9:41
  Every
• 9:42
  day.
• 9:42
  We
• 9:42
  should
• 9:42
  polish
• 9:43
  it,
• 9:44
  wipe
• 9:44
  it
• 9:44
  clean
• 9:45
  hour
• 9:45
  by
• 9:45
  hour.
• 9:46
  Yeah.
• 9:46
  The.
• 9:47
  The
• 9:47
  mind
• 9:47
  is
• 9:47
  a.
• 9:48
  And
• 9:48
  then
• 9:48
  a
• 9:48
  Bodhi
• 9:49
  tree,
• 9:49
  something
• 9:50
  like
• 9:50
  that.
• 9:50
  I
• 9:50
  forget.
• 9:51
  Exactly.
• 9:51
  But
• 9:51
  everything.
• 9:52
  We
• 9:52
  should.
• 9:52
  Every
• 9:52
  day.
• 9:52
  We
• 9:52
  should
• 9:53
  clean
• 9:53
  our
• 9:53
  mind.
• 9:53
  We
• 9:53
  should
• 9:54
  polish
• 9:54
  our
• 9:54
  mind.
• 9:54
  We
• 9:55
  should
• 9:55
  let
• 9:55
  no
• 9:55
  dust
• 9:56
  alight.
• 9:57
  And
• 9:57
  so.
• 9:59
  Yeah.
• 10:00
  Responds
• 10:00
  in
• 10:01
  the
• 10:01
  moment
• 10:01
  without
• 10:02
  thought.
• 10:03
  Right?
• 10:03
  Yeah.
• 10:03
  Well,
• 10:04
  it's.
• 10:04
  It
• 10:04
  has.
• 10:04
  So
• 10:05
  anyway,
• 10:05
  what
• 10:05
  happens?
• 10:06
  Let's
• 10:06
  see.
• 10:07
  Let's
• 10:07
  come
• 10:07
  back
• 10:08
  to
• 10:08
  that.
• 10:08
  Because
• 10:08
  the
• 10:09
  Abbott
• 10:09
  comes
• 10:10
  and
• 10:10
  says,
• 10:11
  this
• 10:11
  is
• 10:13
  close,
• 10:13
  but
• 10:13
  not
• 10:14
  good
• 10:14
  enough.
• 10:14
  But
• 10:15
  everyone
• 10:15
  should.
• 10:16
  It
• 10:16
  has
• 10:16
  merit.
• 10:17
  So
• 10:17
  it's
• 10:17
  close.
• 10:18
  So
• 10:18
  if
• 10:18
  you
• 10:18
  recite
• 10:19
  this
• 10:19
  and
• 10:19
  learn
• 10:20
  it
• 10:20
  and
• 10:20
  take
• 10:20
  it
• 10:20
  to
• 10:20
  heart,
• 10:20
  we'll
• 10:21
  keep
• 10:21
  it
• 10:21
  here.
• 10:21
  It
• 10:22
  will
• 10:22
  help
• 10:22
  all
• 10:22
  of
• 10:22
  you
• 10:22
  get
• 10:22
  closer
• 10:23
  to
• 10:23
  enlightenment.
• 10:24
  What
• 10:25
  were
• 10:25
  you
• 10:25
  saying
• 10:26
  a
• 10:26
  second
• 10:26
  ago?
• 10:27
  Oh,
• 10:28
  well.
• 10:28
  And
• 10:29
  the.
• 10:29
  The
• 10:29
  image
• 10:29
  of
• 10:30
  the
• 10:30
  mirror
• 10:30
  was.
• 10:30
  The
• 10:31
  mirror
• 10:31
  responds
• 10:32
  without
• 10:32
  thought.
• 10:35
  You
• 10:35
  know,
• 10:36
  reflects
• 10:37
  immediately.
• 10:38
  But
• 10:38
  still,
• 10:38
  there's
• 10:39
  the
• 10:39
  idea.
• 10:40
  Yeah.
• 10:41
  Of
• 10:42
  this
• 10:42
  mirror.
• 10:43
  Well,
• 10:43
  then
• 10:44
  we
• 10:44
  have.
• 10:44
  So
• 10:44
  then
• 10:44
  what
• 10:44
  happens?
• 10:45
  He's
• 10:46
  saying,
• 10:46
  keep
• 10:46
  your
• 10:46
  mind
• 10:47
  clean.
• 10:47
  Keep
• 10:47
  your
• 10:47
  mirror
• 10:48
  clean.
• 10:48
  Then
• 10:48
  you
• 10:49
  can
• 10:49
  reflect
• 10:49
  purely.
• 10:50
  You're
• 10:50
  right.
• 10:50
  That's
• 10:51
  what.
• 10:51
  That's
• 10:51
  what
• 10:51
  he's
• 10:51
  saying.
• 10:51
  And
• 10:51
  so
• 10:52
  the
• 10:52
  Abbott
• 10:52
  says,
• 10:52
  oh,
• 10:53
  this
• 10:53
  has
• 10:53
  some
• 10:53
  merit.
• 10:53
  Everyone
• 10:54
  recite
• 10:54
  it.
• 10:55
  It's
• 10:55
  not
• 10:55
  enlightenment,
• 10:56
  but
• 10:56
  it's
• 10:56
  very
• 10:57
  close.
• 10:57
  And
• 10:57
  if
• 10:58
  you
• 10:58
  recited,
• 10:58
  you'll
• 10:58
  have
• 10:58
  some
• 10:59
  merit.
• 10:59
  It'll
• 10:59
  be
• 10:59
  very
• 10:59
  good
• 10:59
  for
• 11:00
  you.
• 11:00
  Merit
• 11:00
  means
• 11:00
  you'll.
• 11:01
  You'll
• 11:01
  get
• 11:01
  a
• 11:01
  more
• 11:01
  Buddhist
• 11:02
  achievement.
• 11:02
  Get
• 11:03
  closer
• 11:03
  to
• 11:03
  enlightenment.
• 11:05
  So
• 11:05
  everyone's
• 11:05
  reciting
• 11:06
  this
• 11:06
  poem,
• 11:06
  including
• 11:07
  just
• 11:08
  a
• 11:08
  boy
• 11:09
  who
• 11:09
  is
• 11:09
  like
• 11:09
  a
• 11:10
  stable
• 11:10
  hand
• 11:10
  or
• 11:11
  something
• 11:11
  like
• 11:11
  that,
• 11:11
  around.
• 11:12
  Kind
• 11:12
  of
• 11:12
  helper
• 11:13
  around
• 11:13
  the
• 11:13
  monastery.
• 11:14
  A
• 11:14
  boy
• 11:14
  is
• 11:14
  reciting
• 11:15
  this
• 11:15
  poem.
• 11:16
  So
• 11:17
  Hui
• 11:17
  Nang
• 11:17
  is
• 11:18
  just
• 11:18
  in
• 11:18
  the
• 11:18
  building,
• 11:19
  doing
• 11:19
  his
• 11:19
  manual
• 11:20
  labor,
• 11:20
  shucking
• 11:21
  rice,
• 11:22
  being
• 11:22
  hidden
• 11:22
  away
• 11:22
  from
• 11:22
  everyone.
• 11:23
  He
• 11:23
  hears
• 11:24
  this
• 11:24
  poem.
• 11:26
  The
• 11:27
  mind
• 11:27
  is
• 11:27
  like
• 11:27
  a
• 11:27
  Bodhi
• 11:28
  tree.
• 11:28
  I
• 11:28
  forget.
• 11:29
  But
• 11:29
  the
• 11:29
  mirror
• 11:29
  is
• 11:29
  the
• 11:29
  important
• 11:30
  part.
• 11:30
  So
• 11:30
  then,
• 11:31
  Hui
• 11:32
  Meng,
• 11:32
  he
• 11:32
  can't
• 11:33
  write.
• 11:33
  He's
• 11:33
  illiterate.
• 11:34
  Exactly.
• 11:34
  He
• 11:35
  hears
• 11:35
  it,
• 11:35
  and
• 11:35
  he
• 11:35
  asked
• 11:35
  the
• 11:36
  boy,
• 11:36
  what
• 11:36
  in
• 11:36
  the
• 11:36
  world
• 11:37
  are
• 11:37
  you
• 11:37
  saying?
• 11:38
  What
• 11:38
  are
• 11:38
  those
• 11:38
  words?
• 11:39
  And
• 11:39
  the
• 11:39
  boy
• 11:40
  explains,
• 11:40
  oh,
• 11:41
  you
• 11:41
  barbarian.
• 11:42
  The
• 11:42
  abbot
• 11:42
  told
• 11:43
  us
• 11:43
  all
• 11:43
  to
• 11:43
  learn
• 11:43
  this.
• 11:44
  Even
• 11:44
  know
• 11:44
  this.
• 11:44
  You
• 11:44
  barbarian.
• 11:45
  And.
• 11:45
  And
• 11:47
  like
• 11:47
  oh,
• 11:47
  I'm
• 11:48
  so
• 11:48
  sorry.
• 11:48
  Just
• 11:49
  take
• 11:49
  pity
• 11:49
  on
• 11:49
  me,
• 11:50
  please.
• 11:50
  Just
• 11:50
  tell
• 11:50
  me
• 11:51
  more
• 11:51
  about
• 11:51
  it.
• 11:51
  So
• 11:51
  the
• 11:52
  boy
• 11:52
  tells
• 11:52
  him
• 11:52
  the
• 11:52
  words,
• 11:53
  tells
• 11:53
  him
• 11:53
  about
• 11:53
  the
• 11:53
  contest.
• 11:55
  So
• 11:55
  the,
• 11:55
  the
• 11:56
  Huang
• 11:57
  tells
• 11:57
  the
• 11:57
  boy,
• 11:57
  please
• 11:58
  show
• 11:58
  me
• 11:59
  this.
• 12:00
  When
• 12:01
  Huen
• 12:01
  arrives,
• 12:02
  there
• 12:03
  is
• 12:03
  a
• 12:03
  local,
• 12:04
  I
• 12:04
  want
• 12:04
  to
• 12:04
  say,
• 12:04
  like
• 12:04
  a
• 12:05
  local
• 12:05
  sheriff
• 12:05
  or
• 12:05
  something
• 12:06
  who's
• 12:06
  come
• 12:06
  to
• 12:06
  kind
• 12:06
  of
• 12:07
  study
• 12:07
  this
• 12:07
  poem
• 12:08
  and,
• 12:09
  and
• 12:09
  pay
• 12:09
  homage
• 12:10
  to
• 12:10
  this
• 12:10
  poem
• 12:10
  and
• 12:11
  learn
• 12:11
  it
• 12:11
  for
• 12:11
  his
• 12:11
  own
• 12:11
  merit.
• 12:12
  A
• 12:12
  layperson.
• 12:14
  So
• 12:14
  Huang
• 12:15
  actually
• 12:15
  asked
• 12:16
  this
• 12:16
  person,
• 12:16
  can
• 12:17
  you
• 12:17
  please
• 12:18
  write
• 12:18
  a
• 12:18
  poem
• 12:19
  next
• 12:19
  to
• 12:19
  it?
• 12:20
  And
• 12:20
  the
• 12:21
  person
• 12:21
  says,
• 12:21
  you're
• 12:22
  so
• 12:22
  low.
• 12:23
  Why
• 12:23
  should
• 12:23
  you
• 12:24
  write
• 12:24
  a
• 12:24
  poem?
• 12:24
  You're
• 12:24
  a
• 12:25
  barbarian.
• 12:25
  How
• 12:25
  can
• 12:25
  you
• 12:26
  have
• 12:26
  enlightenment
• 12:26
  to
• 12:26
  put
• 12:26
  a
• 12:27
  poem
• 12:27
  here?
• 12:27
  Huineng
• 12:28
  says,
• 12:28
  please,
• 12:29
  the
• 12:29
  difference
• 12:29
  between
• 12:30
  rich
• 12:31
  and
• 12:31
  poor
• 12:31
  in
• 12:31
  our
• 12:31
  Buddha
• 12:32
  nature
• 12:32
  is
• 12:32
  the
• 12:32
  same.
• 12:34
  The
• 12:34
  highest
• 12:35
  person
• 12:35
  in
• 12:35
  the
• 12:36
  world
• 12:36
  could
• 12:36
  be
• 12:36
  a
• 12:36
  dummy.
• 12:37
  If
• 12:37
  you
• 12:37
  have
• 12:37
  a
• 12:37
  high
• 12:38
  position,
• 12:38
  could
• 12:38
  be
• 12:39
  you
• 12:39
  could
• 12:39
  still
• 12:40
  be
• 12:40
  dumb.
• 12:40
  Or
• 12:40
  the
• 12:40
  lowest
• 12:41
  person
• 12:41
  could
• 12:41
  have
• 12:41
  enlightenment
• 12:42
  in
• 12:42
  Buddha
• 12:42
  nature.
• 12:43
  Please
• 12:43
  just
• 12:43
  take
• 12:43
  pity
• 12:44
  and
• 12:44
  write
• 12:44
  this
• 12:44
  poem
• 12:44
  for
• 12:45
  me
• 12:45
  on
• 12:45
  the
• 12:45
  wall.
• 12:46
  Well,
• 12:46
  I'm
• 12:46
  going
• 12:47
  to
• 12:47
  stop
• 12:47
  you
• 12:47
  right
• 12:47
  now.
• 12:48
  You
• 12:48
  got
• 12:48
  to
• 12:48
  take
• 12:48
  a
• 12:49
  break
• 12:49
  and
• 12:49
  tune
• 12:50
  in
• 12:50
  after
• 12:50
  the
• 12:50
  break
• 12:51
  to
• 12:51
  learn
• 12:52
  what
• 12:52
  happened
• 12:53
  with
• 12:53
  Huy
• 12:53
  Nang
• 12:54
  and
• 12:54
  the.
• 12:54
  Poem
• 12:54
  on
• 12:54
  the
• 12:54
  wall.
• 12:55
  Okay.
• 12:56
  Right.
• 12:56
  And
• 12:56
  I'm
• 12:56
  your
• 12:57
  co
• 12:57
  host
• 12:58
  on
• 12:58
  the
• 12:58
  Living
• 12:59
  Conversation
• 12:59
  and
• 13:00
  you
• 13:00
  can
• 13:00
  contact
• 13:00
  me
• 13:00
  through
• 13:01
  my
• 13:01
  website,
• 13:02
  theonaut
• 13:02
  T-H-E-O-N-A-U-T.com
• 13:05
  and
• 13:06
  Adam,
• 13:06
  how
• 13:06
  can
• 13:06
  Google
• 13:07
  contact
• 13:07
  you?
• 13:07
  Yeah,
• 13:08
  I'm
• 13:08
  Adam
• 13:08
  Dietz
• 13:09
  and
• 13:09
  you
• 13:09
  can
• 13:09
  contact
• 13:09
  me@deetsadammail.com
• 13:12
  or
• 13:13
  look
• 13:13
  on
• 13:13
  substack,
• 13:14
  find
• 13:14
  me
• 13:14
  at
• 13:15
  the
• 13:15
  way
• 13:16
  between.substack.com
• 13:19
  Great.
• 13:19
  All
• 13:19
  right,
• 13:19
  we're
• 13:20
  going
• 13:20
  to
• 13:20
  take
• 13:20
  a
• 13:20
  short
• 13:20
  break
• 13:20
  and
• 13:21
  be
• 13:21
  right
• 13:21
  back.
• 13:22
  So
• 13:22
  stay
• 13:22
  tuned
• 13:23
  for
• 13:24
  the
• 13:24
  end
• 13:24
  of
• 13:25
  the
• 13:25
  Hui
• 13:25
  Nang
• 13:25
  story.
• 13:31
  Foreign.
• 13:41
  I'm
• 13:41
  Anthony
• 13:42
  Wright
• 13:42
  and
• 13:42
  I
• 13:43
  am
• 13:43
  your
• 13:43
  co
• 13:43
  host
• 13:44
  on
• 13:45
  Attunement,
• 13:45
  the
• 13:46
  Living
• 13:46
  Conversation
• 13:47
  with
• 13:47
  my
• 13:47
  co
• 13:48
  host.
• 13:48
  Yeah,
• 13:49
  Adam
• 13:49
  Dietz.
• 13:50
  And
• 13:50
  Adam,
• 13:51
  before
• 13:51
  the
• 13:51
  break,
• 13:52
  we
• 13:52
  were
• 13:52
  talking
• 13:52
  about
• 13:53
  winning
• 13:54
  and
• 13:56
  how
• 13:57
  he
• 13:57
  had
• 13:58
  heard
• 13:59
  someone
• 14:00
  reciting
• 14:01
  the
• 14:01
  Diamond
• 14:01
  Sutra.
• 14:02
  And
• 14:04
  the
• 14:05
  abbot
• 14:05
  in
• 14:06
  the
• 14:06
  monastery
• 14:08
  had
• 14:08
  a
• 14:08
  contest.
• 14:09
  And
• 14:10
  the
• 14:10
  head.
• 14:10
  Was
• 14:10
  it
• 14:11
  the
• 14:11
  head
• 14:11
  monk
• 14:11
  who
• 14:11
  came
• 14:12
  up
• 14:12
  with
• 14:13
  this
• 14:13
  verse
• 14:13
  that,
• 14:14
  that
• 14:14
  you
• 14:14
  found?
• 14:16
  Yeah,
• 14:16
  Sensue
• 14:16
  was
• 14:17
  like
• 14:17
  the
• 14:17
  top
• 14:17
  student
• 14:18
  basically.
• 14:18
  Okay,
• 14:19
  so
• 14:19
  what
• 14:19
  was
• 14:19
  his.
• 14:20
  What
• 14:20
  was
• 14:20
  the
• 14:20
  poem
• 14:20
  that
• 14:21
  he
• 14:21
  wrote?
• 14:21
  Yeah,
• 14:22
  he
• 14:22
  wrote
• 14:22
  on
• 14:22
  the
• 14:22
  wall,
• 14:23
  our
• 14:23
  body
• 14:23
  is
• 14:23
  the
• 14:24
  Bodhi
• 14:24
  tree
• 14:24
  and
• 14:25
  our
• 14:25
  mind
• 14:25
  a
• 14:26
  mirror
• 14:26
  bright.
• 14:27
  Careful.
• 14:28
  Wipe
• 14:28
  them
• 14:28
  hour
• 14:29
  by
• 14:29
  hour
• 14:29
  and
• 14:30
  let
• 14:30
  no
• 14:30
  dust
• 14:30
  alight.
• 14:31
  Yes.
• 14:33
  So
• 14:33
  what
• 14:33
  happens
• 14:34
  next,
• 14:34
  man?
• 14:34
  Yeah,
• 14:34
  so
• 14:34
  when
• 14:35
  Nang
• 14:36
  goes
• 14:36
  to
• 14:36
  see
• 14:36
  this
• 14:37
  poem
• 14:37
  and
• 14:37
  he
• 14:37
  asks
• 14:37
  someone
• 14:38
  to
• 14:38
  kindly
• 14:40
  write
• 14:40
  a
• 14:40
  poem
• 14:41
  next
• 14:41
  to
• 14:41
  it
• 14:41
  of
• 14:41
  his
• 14:41
  own
• 14:42
  making,
• 14:42
  of
• 14:42
  Huang's
• 14:43
  own
• 14:43
  Making.
• 14:44
  And
• 14:44
  he
• 14:45
  can't.
• 14:45
  He
• 14:45
  can't
• 14:45
  do
• 14:45
  it
• 14:46
  himself
• 14:46
  because
• 14:46
  he
• 14:46
  can't
• 14:46
  read
• 14:47
  or
• 14:47
  write.
• 14:47
  Exactly.
• 14:48
  Exactly.
• 14:49
  Which
• 14:49
  is
• 14:49
  just
• 14:49
  phenomenal,
• 14:50
  just
• 14:51
  remarkable,
• 14:52
  according
• 14:52
  to
• 14:53
  the
• 14:53
  way,
• 14:54
  you
• 14:54
  know,
• 14:54
  it
• 14:55
  sends
• 14:55
  such
• 14:55
  a
• 14:55
  message.
• 14:56
  Because
• 14:56
  what
• 14:56
  happens
• 14:56
  next
• 14:58
  is
• 14:58
  that
• 14:58
  he
• 14:59
  writes
• 15:00
  this
• 15:00
  poem.
• 15:01
  He
• 15:01
  says,
• 15:02
  there
• 15:02
  is
• 15:03
  no
• 15:03
  Bodhi
• 15:03
  tree
• 15:04
  nor
• 15:05
  stand
• 15:05
  of
• 15:06
  a
• 15:06
  mirror
• 15:06
  bright.
• 15:07
  Since
• 15:08
  all
• 15:08
  it
• 15:08
  is
• 15:08
  void,
• 15:10
  where
• 15:10
  can
• 15:11
  the
• 15:11
  dust
• 15:11
  alight?
• 15:14
  So
• 15:15
  you
• 15:15
  say
• 15:16
  original.
• 15:17
  Original.
• 15:17
  There's
• 15:18
  nothing
• 15:18
  since
• 15:18
  originally
• 15:19
  there's
• 15:19
  nothing.
• 15:20
  Originally
• 15:20
  there's
• 15:20
  nothing.
• 15:20
  There's
• 15:21
  a
• 15:21
  void
• 15:21
  since
• 15:21
  originally
• 15:22
  there's
• 15:22
  nothing
• 15:22
  where
• 15:22
  can
• 15:23
  the
• 15:23
  dust
• 15:23
  alight?
• 15:24
  So
• 15:25
  he
• 15:25
  writes
• 15:25
  this
• 15:25
  poem,
• 15:26
  and
• 15:27
  the
• 15:27
  boy
• 15:27
  and
• 15:28
  the
• 15:29
  official
• 15:30
  who
• 15:30
  help
• 15:30
  him
• 15:30
  write
• 15:30
  it
• 15:31
  are
• 15:31
  very
• 15:31
  impressed.
• 15:33
  And
• 15:34
  so
• 15:34
  this
• 15:34
  poem
• 15:35
  gathers
• 15:36
  quite
• 15:36
  a
• 15:37
  stir,
• 15:39
  a
• 15:39
  clamor
• 15:39
  in
• 15:40
  the
• 15:41
  monastery.
• 15:42
  It's
• 15:42
  so
• 15:43
  much
• 15:43
  so
• 15:43
  that
• 15:43
  they
• 15:43
  invite
• 15:44
  the
• 15:44
  abbot
• 15:44
  over.
• 15:46
  And
• 15:46
  the
• 15:46
  abbot
• 15:47
  sees
• 15:47
  this
• 15:47
  poem
• 15:48
  and
• 15:48
  he
• 15:48
  says,
• 15:48
  oh,
• 15:49
  he
• 15:49
  knows
• 15:49
  the
• 15:50
  person.
• 15:50
  Author
• 15:50
  has
• 15:51
  enlightenment.
• 15:52
  Yep,
• 15:52
  yep.
• 15:54
  But
• 15:54
  the
• 15:55
  story,
• 15:55
  I
• 15:55
  mean,
• 15:55
  we
• 15:56
  can
• 15:56
  continue
• 15:56
  on
• 15:56
  with
• 15:56
  the
• 15:56
  story.
• 15:57
  The
• 15:57
  point
• 15:57
  is
• 15:57
  what.
• 15:58
  What
• 15:58
  happens
• 15:58
  next,
• 15:58
  I
• 15:59
  think
• 15:59
  is
• 15:59
  kind
• 15:59
  of
• 15:59
  the.
• 15:59
  The
• 16:00
  climax.
• 16:01
  The
• 16:02
  Abbott
• 16:02
  actually
• 16:03
  takes
• 16:03
  the
• 16:03
  poem
• 16:04
  and
• 16:05
  rubs
• 16:05
  it
• 16:05
  off
• 16:05
  with
• 16:05
  his
• 16:06
  shoe.
• 16:07
  There's
• 16:08
  no
• 16:08
  enlightenment
• 16:08
  here.
• 16:09
  Nothing.
• 16:10
  Nothing
• 16:10
  to
• 16:10
  see
• 16:10
  here
• 16:12
  and
• 16:12
  tell
• 16:12
  us
• 16:12
  Wainang
• 16:14
  to
• 16:14
  go
• 16:14
  back
• 16:14
  and
• 16:15
  keep
• 16:15
  shucking
• 16:15
  the
• 16:16
  rice.
• 16:17
  But
• 16:17
  actually
• 16:17
  in
• 16:18
  secret,
• 16:18
  in
• 16:19
  the.
• 16:19
  In
• 16:19
  the
• 16:19
  night,
• 16:20
  the
• 16:20
  abbot
• 16:21
  comes
• 16:21
  to
• 16:21
  Huang
• 16:22
  and
• 16:22
  says
• 16:23
  he.
• 16:24
  Actually
• 16:24
  they
• 16:24
  start
• 16:25
  this
• 16:25
  Zen
• 16:26
  Buddhist
• 16:26
  kind
• 16:26
  of
• 16:26
  conversation.
• 16:27
  He
• 16:27
  asks
• 16:28
  Huang
• 16:28
  when
• 16:28
  he
• 16:29
  arrives.
• 16:30
  Actually,
• 16:31
  it's
• 16:31
  probably
• 16:31
  not.
• 16:32
  It's
• 16:32
  probably
• 16:32
  later
• 16:32
  in
• 16:32
  the
• 16:32
  afternoon.
• 16:33
  He's
• 16:33
  still
• 16:33
  working
• 16:34
  like
• 16:34
  have
• 16:35
  schedule
• 16:35
  another
• 16:35
  conversation
• 16:36
  for
• 16:36
  at
• 16:36
  night.
• 16:37
  But
• 16:37
  he
• 16:37
  asked,
• 16:38
  is
• 16:39
  the
• 16:39
  rice
• 16:39
  ready?
• 16:40
  Oh,
• 16:40
  right.
• 16:41
  Is.
• 16:42
  Is
• 16:42
  a
• 16:43
  signature
• 16:43
  of
• 16:43
  Zen
• 16:43
  Buddhism.
• 16:44
  He
• 16:45
  asks,
• 16:45
  is
• 16:45
  the
• 16:45
  rice
• 16:45
  ready?
• 16:46
  Huang
• 16:46
  Nang
• 16:47
  knows
• 16:47
  this
• 16:48
  is
• 16:48
  a
• 16:48
  moment
• 16:50
  in.
• 16:50
  In
• 16:50
  Blue
• 16:51
  Cliff
• 16:51
  record
• 16:51
  that
• 16:52
  we
• 16:52
  studied
• 16:52
  with
• 16:52
  Dr.
• 16:52
  Wu,
• 16:53
  another
• 16:53
  important
• 16:54
  Buddhist
• 16:54
  text.
• 16:55
  We.
• 16:55
  This
• 16:56
  means
• 16:57
  like,
• 16:57
  okay,
• 16:57
  everyone,
• 16:58
  we're
• 16:58
  starting
• 16:58
  the
• 16:59
  enlightenment
• 16:59
  conversation.
• 17:00
  Talk
• 17:00
  about
• 17:01
  the
• 17:01
  living
• 17:01
  conversation.
• 17:01
  The
• 17:02
  enlightenment
• 17:02
  conversation
• 17:03
  is
• 17:03
  coming.
• 17:04
  So
• 17:04
  Dr.
• 17:04
  Wu,
• 17:05
  I
• 17:05
  think
• 17:05
  he
• 17:05
  called
• 17:05
  it
• 17:05
  a
• 17:05
  G.
• 17:05
  G.
• 17:06
  A
• 17:06
  subtlety
• 17:07
  has
• 17:07
  come.
• 17:08
  G.
• 17:09
  So
• 17:09
  now
• 17:09
  Huineng
• 17:10
  also.
• 17:10
  Oh,
• 17:11
  this
• 17:11
  Abbott
• 17:12
  is
• 17:12
  testing
• 17:12
  me.
• 17:14
  Is
• 17:14
  the
• 17:14
  rice
• 17:15
  ready?
• 17:15
  And
• 17:15
  so
• 17:16
  he
• 17:16
  knows
• 17:16
  this
• 17:16
  is
• 17:16
  enlightenment
• 17:17
  language
• 17:17
  talk.
• 17:18
  He
• 17:18
  says
• 17:19
  it
• 17:19
  was
• 17:19
  ready
• 17:20
  long
• 17:20
  ago,
• 17:21
  just
• 17:21
  waiting
• 17:21
  for
• 17:21
  the
• 17:22
  sieve.
• 17:22
  See,
• 17:24
  this
• 17:24
  is
• 17:25
  all.
• 17:26
  Sorry,
• 17:26
  Siv.
• 17:27
  This
• 17:27
  is
• 17:27
  all
• 17:27
  code
• 17:28
  that.
• 17:29
  Is
• 17:30
  your
• 17:30
  mind
• 17:30
  ready?
• 17:31
  Is
• 17:31
  your
• 17:31
  enlightenment
• 17:32
  ready?
• 17:34
  My
• 17:35
  mind
• 17:35
  has
• 17:35
  been
• 17:36
  here
• 17:36
  since
• 17:36
  the
• 17:36
  beginning
• 17:36
  of
• 17:36
  the
• 17:37
  universe.
• 17:38
  Of
• 17:38
  course,
• 17:38
  as
• 17:39
  long
• 17:39
  ago.
• 17:40
  Of
• 17:40
  course
• 17:41
  it's
• 17:41
  ready
• 17:41
  long
• 17:41
  ago.
• 17:42
  Just
• 17:42
  waiting
• 17:43
  for
• 17:43
  you
• 17:43
  Abbott
• 17:44
  to
• 17:44
  help
• 17:44
  filter
• 17:45
  it
• 17:45
  out,
• 17:45
  help
• 17:46
  me
• 17:47
  take
• 17:47
  the
• 17:47
  next
• 17:47
  step.
• 17:48
  So
• 17:48
  the
• 17:49
  Abbott
• 17:49
  simply
• 17:50
  pounds
• 17:50
  on
• 17:51
  the
• 17:51
  ground
• 17:51
  with
• 17:51
  his
• 17:52
  staff
• 17:52
  three
• 17:52
  times.
• 17:53
  Yes.
• 17:54
  And
• 17:54
  Hui
• 17:54
  Ng
• 17:55
  says,
• 17:55
  oh,
• 17:55
  the
• 17:55
  Abbott
• 17:56
  wants
• 17:56
  to
• 17:56
  see
• 17:56
  Me
• 17:57
  at
• 17:58
  the
• 17:58
  third
• 17:58
  watch
• 17:58
  of
• 17:58
  the
• 17:58
  night.
• 17:59
  For
• 18:00
  the
• 18:00
  third
• 18:00
  watch
• 18:00
  of
• 18:00
  the
• 18:01
  night,
• 18:01
  Huy
• 18:01
  Nang
• 18:01
  goes
• 18:02
  to
• 18:02
  the
• 18:02
  abbot.
• 18:03
  It's
• 18:03
  all
• 18:03
  very
• 18:03
  secret,
• 18:03
  because
• 18:04
  they
• 18:04
  know
• 18:04
  if
• 18:05
  this
• 18:05
  illiterate
• 18:06
  barbarian
• 18:07
  who
• 18:07
  just
• 18:07
  arrived
• 18:08
  has
• 18:09
  enlightenment,
• 18:10
  this
• 18:10
  throws
• 18:11
  everything
• 18:11
  of
• 18:12
  Buddhist
• 18:12
  structure
• 18:13
  out
• 18:13
  the
• 18:13
  window
• 18:14
  that
• 18:14
  he
• 18:14
  can
• 18:15
  have
• 18:15
  sudden
• 18:15
  enlightenment.
• 18:16
  This
• 18:16
  is
• 18:16
  why
• 18:17
  he's
• 18:17
  the
• 18:17
  first
• 18:17
  patriarch
• 18:18
  of
• 18:18
  Zen
• 18:18
  Buddhism.
• 18:18
  He
• 18:18
  has
• 18:18
  sun
• 18:19
  enlightened
• 18:19
  in
• 18:19
  one
• 18:20
  moment.
• 18:20
  Diamond
• 18:21
  Sutra
• 18:21
  cut
• 18:21
  off
• 18:21
  all
• 18:22
  ego
• 18:22
  enlightenment.
• 18:24
  So
• 18:24
  this
• 18:25
  is
• 18:25
  very
• 18:25
  radical.
• 18:27
  But
• 18:27
  when
• 18:27
  Hui
• 18:27
  Nang
• 18:28
  arrives
• 18:29
  to
• 18:30
  the
• 18:31
  abbot,
• 18:31
  then
• 18:31
  they
• 18:31
  have
• 18:32
  discussion.
• 18:33
  Basically.
• 18:36
  Basically,
• 18:37
  not
• 18:37
  to
• 18:37
  get
• 18:38
  too
• 18:38
  much
• 18:38
  in
• 18:38
  the
• 18:38
  details,
• 18:38
  but
• 18:39
  the
• 18:39
  abbot
• 18:39
  says,
• 18:40
  you
• 18:40
  are
• 18:41
  enlightened.
• 18:41
  You
• 18:41
  have
• 18:42
  seen
• 18:42
  the
• 18:42
  essence
• 18:42
  of
• 18:42
  mind.
• 18:43
  Right.
• 18:44
  And.
• 18:45
  And
• 18:45
  says
• 18:45
  you
• 18:45
  will
• 18:45
  be
• 18:46
  the
• 18:46
  next
• 18:46
  patriarch
• 18:46
  of
• 18:46
  Zen
• 18:47
  Buddhism.
• 18:47
  But
• 18:47
  you
• 18:47
  have
• 18:48
  to
• 18:48
  hide
• 18:48
  away
• 18:48
  and
• 18:49
  run
• 18:49
  away
• 18:49
  for
• 18:49
  a
• 18:49
  while,
• 18:51
  because
• 18:52
  at.
• 18:53
  That
• 18:53
  time
• 18:53
  that
• 18:53
  he
• 18:54
  gives
• 18:54
  him
• 18:54
  the.
• 18:54
  Robe
• 18:55
  in
• 18:55
  the
• 18:55
  bowl.
• 18:55
  Yep.
• 18:56
  And
• 18:56
  he
• 18:56
  gives
• 18:56
  him
• 18:57
  the
• 18:57
  dharma.
• 18:57
  He
• 18:57
  the.
• 18:58
  The
• 18:58
  full
• 18:58
  enlightenment.
• 18:59
  Right.
• 19:00
  And
• 19:00
  so
• 19:00
  Huinang
• 19:01
  says,
• 19:01
  at
• 19:01
  that
• 19:01
  moment,
• 19:01
  my
• 19:02
  mind
• 19:02
  was
• 19:02
  fully
• 19:02
  enlightened.
• 19:04
  So
• 19:04
  Huy
• 19:04
  Nang
• 19:05
  takes
• 19:05
  over
• 19:05
  this
• 19:06
  lineage.
• 19:06
  He's
• 19:06
  the
• 19:07
  next
• 19:07
  highest
• 19:08
  monk
• 19:08
  in
• 19:09
  Buddhism.
• 19:09
  And
• 19:09
  so
• 19:10
  he's
• 19:10
  called
• 19:12
  maybe
• 19:12
  a
• 19:12
  sixth
• 19:12
  patriarch
• 19:13
  of.
• 19:13
  Of
• 19:14
  Chinese
• 19:14
  Buddhism.
• 19:15
  33rd
• 19:16
  patriarch.
• 19:16
  Trace
• 19:17
  back
• 19:17
  a
• 19:17
  lineage
• 19:17
  all
• 19:17
  the
• 19:18
  way
• 19:18
  to
• 19:18
  Buddha.
• 19:19
  Oh,
• 19:20
  yes.
• 19:20
  First
• 19:20
  patriarch
• 19:21
  of
• 19:21
  Zen
• 19:21
  Buddhism.
• 19:22
  Sudden
• 19:22
  enlightened
• 19:23
  or
• 19:23
  Chinese
• 19:24
  Chan
• 19:25
  Buddhism.
• 19:25
  Right.
• 19:26
  Yeah.
• 19:26
  I'm
• 19:27
  remembering
• 19:27
  another
• 19:28
  story,
• 19:29
  and
• 19:29
  I
• 19:29
  think
• 19:30
  this
• 19:30
  was
• 19:30
  from
• 19:31
  a
• 19:31
  monk
• 19:31
  that
• 19:31
  was
• 19:32
  studying
• 19:34
  Hunang's
• 19:34
  experience.
• 19:36
  And
• 19:36
  so
• 19:37
  for
• 19:37
  years
• 19:38
  he
• 19:40
  studied
• 19:41
  the
• 19:41
  Dharma
• 19:41
  and
• 19:42
  sat,
• 19:42
  and
• 19:43
  he
• 19:43
  was
• 19:43
  walking
• 19:44
  along,
• 19:45
  and
• 19:45
  his
• 19:46
  foot
• 19:46
  kicked
• 19:47
  a
• 19:47
  pebble
• 19:48
  against
• 19:48
  a
• 19:48
  bamboo
• 19:49
  fence.
• 19:50
  And
• 19:50
  the
• 19:50
  sound
• 19:51
  of
• 19:51
  the
• 19:51
  pebble
• 19:51
  hitting
• 19:52
  the
• 19:52
  fence
• 19:53
  cracked
• 19:54
  him
• 19:54
  open.
• 19:54
  Do
• 19:55
  you
• 19:55
  know
• 19:55
  that
• 19:55
  story?
• 19:56
  I
• 19:56
  don't
• 19:56
  remember.
• 19:57
  Oh,
• 19:57
  okay.
• 19:58
  But
• 20:01
  it's
• 20:02
  this
• 20:02
  idea
• 20:04
  or
• 20:04
  this
• 20:05
  understanding
• 20:06
  about
• 20:06
  that
• 20:07
  we
• 20:07
  can
• 20:07
  have
• 20:07
  sudden
• 20:08
  enlightenment
• 20:10
  after
• 20:10
  30
• 20:10
  years
• 20:12
  or
• 20:12
  after
• 20:13
  five
• 20:13
  minutes.
• 20:14
  It's
• 20:15
  always
• 20:15
  there.
• 20:16
  It's
• 20:17
  always
• 20:17
  ready
• 20:18
  to
• 20:18
  have.
• 20:20
  And
• 20:20
  I
• 20:20
  want
• 20:20
  to
• 20:21
  offer
• 20:21
  a
• 20:21
  story,
• 20:21
  and
• 20:22
  maybe
• 20:22
  I've
• 20:22
  told
• 20:22
  it
• 20:23
  before.
• 20:23
  About
• 20:24
  25
• 20:25
  years
• 20:25
  ago,
• 20:27
  I
• 20:27
  fell
• 20:27
  in
• 20:27
  love
• 20:27
  with
• 20:28
  a
• 20:28
  woman
• 20:28
  and
• 20:28
  had
• 20:28
  a
• 20:28
  relationship,
• 20:29
  and
• 20:31
  she
• 20:31
  decided
• 20:32
  to
• 20:32
  leave
• 20:32
  the
• 20:33
  relationship.
• 20:33
  And
• 20:33
  I
• 20:33
  went
• 20:33
  into
• 20:34
  grief
• 20:34
  for
• 20:34
  a
• 20:35
  number
• 20:35
  of
• 20:35
  years.
• 20:36
  And
• 20:37
  Alan
• 20:37
  Watts
• 20:37
  had
• 20:38
  spoken
• 20:38
  about
• 20:39
  this
• 20:39
  idea
• 20:39
  of
• 20:41
  the
• 20:41
  mosquito
• 20:42
  biting
• 20:42
  the
• 20:42
  iron
• 20:43
  bull.
• 20:44
  And
• 20:45
  it's
• 20:45
  about
• 20:45
  this
• 20:45
  idea
• 20:46
  that
• 20:47
  when
• 20:47
  we
• 20:47
  desire
• 20:47
  something,
• 20:49
  as
• 20:49
  I
• 20:49
  desired
• 20:49
  that
• 20:50
  relationship
• 20:50
  and
• 20:51
  was
• 20:51
  really
• 20:52
  compelled
• 20:52
  by
• 20:52
  that
• 20:52
  deep
• 20:53
  grief,
• 20:54
  but
• 20:54
  I
• 20:54
  desired
• 20:55
  the
• 20:55
  relationship.
• 20:55
  And
• 20:55
  he
• 20:56
  said,
• 20:56
  when
• 20:56
  you
• 20:56
  desire
• 20:57
  something,
• 20:57
  you
• 20:57
  separate
• 20:58
  yourself
• 20:58
  from
• 20:58
  it.
• 21:00
  And
• 21:00
  the
• 21:01
  elute.
• 21:01
  The.
• 21:01
  And
• 21:02
  that's
• 21:02
  the
• 21:02
  problem
• 21:03
  is
• 21:03
  the
• 21:03
  illusion
• 21:05
  is
• 21:05
  that
• 21:05
  we
• 21:06
  are
• 21:06
  separated
• 21:06
  individuals.
• 21:08
  And
• 21:09
  that
• 21:09
  was
• 21:09
  my
• 21:09
  pebble
• 21:09
  against
• 21:10
  the
• 21:10
  fence.
• 21:10
  I
• 21:10
  went,
• 21:10
  oh,
• 21:12
  oh,
• 21:13
  there's
• 21:13
  no
• 21:14
  separated.
• 21:14
  Anthony
• 21:15
  There
• 21:16
  is
• 21:16
  no
• 21:16
  Anthony
• 21:17
  that's
• 21:18
  separate
• 21:18
  from
• 21:18
  all
• 21:18
  of
• 21:19
  this.
• 21:19
  There
• 21:19
  is
• 21:19
  no
• 21:19
  Adam.
• 21:20
  There
• 21:20
  is
• 21:20
  no
• 21:21
  separate
• 21:22
  listener,
• 21:23
  you,
• 21:23
  who
• 21:24
  is
• 21:24
  listening
• 21:25
  to
• 21:25
  us.
• 21:26
  It's
• 21:26
  all
• 21:26
  the
• 21:27
  cosmos
• 21:28
  doing
• 21:28
  what
• 21:28
  it
• 21:29
  does,
• 21:29
  wherever
• 21:30
  the
• 21:31
  you
• 21:31
  happens
• 21:32
  to
• 21:32
  be.
• 21:32
  But
• 21:32
  it's
• 21:32
  all
• 21:33
  one
• 21:34
  thing.
• 21:35
  And.
• 21:38
  I
• 21:38
  want
• 21:38
  to
• 21:38
  bring
• 21:38
  this
• 21:39
  a
• 21:39
  little
• 21:39
  bit.
• 21:39
  There's
• 21:40
  also
• 21:40
  a
• 21:40
  story
• 21:40
  that
• 21:41
  I
• 21:41
  tell
• 21:41
  my
• 21:41
  students
• 21:42
  about
• 21:44
  in
• 21:45
  complexity
• 21:46
  science,
• 21:47
  which
• 21:47
  I
• 21:47
  also
• 21:47
  studied
• 21:49
  chaos
• 21:49
  theory.
• 21:50
  There's
• 21:50
  this
• 21:51
  idea
• 21:51
  about.
• 21:54
  Mandelbrot
• 21:55
  wrote
• 21:55
  a
• 21:55
  paper
• 21:55
  called
• 21:56
  how
• 21:56
  long
• 21:56
  is
• 21:56
  the
• 21:56
  coastline
• 21:57
  of
• 21:57
  Britain?
• 21:58
  And
• 21:59
  the
• 21:59
  answer
• 21:59
  is,
• 22:00
  it
• 22:00
  depends.
• 22:01
  So
• 22:01
  you
• 22:01
  get
• 22:01
  100
• 22:02
  kilometer
• 22:02
  rulers
• 22:03
  going
• 22:03
  around
• 22:03
  the
• 22:03
  outside
• 22:03
  of
• 22:04
  the.
• 22:04
  Of
• 22:05
  the
• 22:05
  British
• 22:05
  island.
• 22:06
  You
• 22:07
  get
• 22:07
  so
• 22:07
  many
• 22:07
  of
• 22:07
  those.
• 22:07
  Well,
• 22:08
  how
• 22:08
  about
• 22:08
  a
• 22:08
  50
• 22:08
  kilometer?
• 22:09
  Well,
• 22:09
  you
• 22:09
  get
• 22:10
  more
• 22:10
  because
• 22:10
  you
• 22:11
  go
• 22:11
  into
• 22:11
  the
• 22:11
  indentations.
• 22:13
  And
• 22:13
  the
• 22:13
  coastline
• 22:14
  paradox
• 22:14
  goes
• 22:14
  like
• 22:15
  this.
• 22:15
  The
• 22:16
  shorter
• 22:16
  the
• 22:16
  unit
• 22:16
  of
• 22:17
  measurement,
• 22:18
  the
• 22:18
  longer
• 22:18
  gets
• 22:19
  that
• 22:19
  which
• 22:19
  is
• 22:19
  measured,
• 22:20
  until
• 22:21
  when
• 22:21
  the
• 22:21
  unit
• 22:21
  of
• 22:21
  measurement
• 22:22
  reaches
• 22:22
  zero,
• 22:24
  that
• 22:24
  which
• 22:24
  is
• 22:24
  measured
• 22:25
  becomes
• 22:25
  infinite.
• 22:27
  And
• 22:27
  so
• 22:28
  I
• 22:28
  offered
• 22:28
  to
• 22:28
  my
• 22:29
  students
• 22:29
  the
• 22:29
  analogy.
• 22:30
  Then
• 22:30
  when
• 22:31
  we
• 22:31
  stop
• 22:31
  making
• 22:31
  an
• 22:32
  arbitrary
• 22:32
  distinction
• 22:34
  between
• 22:34
  ourselves,
• 22:35
  this
• 22:35
  idea
• 22:36
  of
• 22:36
  separatedness,
• 22:37
  when
• 22:37
  we
• 22:37
  stop
• 22:38
  making
• 22:38
  that,
• 22:39
  then
• 22:39
  we
• 22:39
  become
• 22:39
  one
• 22:40
  being.
• 22:42
  I
• 22:42
  don't
• 22:43
  know
• 22:43
  if
• 22:43
  you'd.
• 22:43
  I'm
• 22:43
  sure
• 22:43
  you.
• 22:44
  You
• 22:44
  probably
• 22:44
  heard
• 22:44
  me
• 22:44
  tell
• 22:45
  that
• 22:45
  story.
• 22:45
  Before,
• 22:45
  but
• 22:46
  now
• 22:46
  as
• 22:47
  we
• 22:47
  talk
• 22:47
  about
• 22:47
  it,
• 22:47
  I
• 22:48
  think
• 22:48
  of
• 22:48
  something
• 22:48
  different.
• 22:49
  I
• 22:49
  think
• 22:49
  of.
• 22:50
  I
• 22:50
  think
• 22:50
  of
• 22:51
  if.
• 22:51
  If
• 22:51
  you
• 22:51
  say
• 22:52
  there's
• 22:52
  no
• 22:52
  Anthony,
• 22:53
  then
• 22:53
  maybe
• 22:53
  Huining
• 22:54
  answers
• 22:54
  you.
• 22:54
  There's
• 22:54
  only
• 22:55
  Anthony.
• 22:59
  The
• 22:59
  whole
• 22:59
  universe
• 23:00
  is
• 23:00
  in
• 23:00
  you.
• 23:01
  The
• 23:01
  whole
• 23:01
  universe
• 23:02
  has
• 23:02
  come
• 23:02
  through
• 23:03
  time
• 23:03
  and
• 23:03
  space
• 23:04
  to
• 23:04
  make
• 23:04
  up
• 23:05
  this
• 23:05
  unique.
• 23:06
  This
• 23:06
  unique
• 23:07
  compilation
• 23:08
  of
• 23:08
  you.
• 23:09
  And
• 23:09
  that's
• 23:10
  all
• 23:10
  you
• 23:10
  can
• 23:10
  know.
• 23:11
  That's
• 23:11
  all
• 23:11
  you
• 23:11
  can
• 23:11
  ever
• 23:12
  know.
• 23:13
  And.
• 23:13
  And
• 23:13
  the
• 23:14
  whole
• 23:14
  universe
• 23:14
  has
• 23:14
  conspired
• 23:15
  to
• 23:15
  put
• 23:15
  you
• 23:15
  in
• 23:16
  that
• 23:16
  body,
• 23:16
  in
• 23:16
  that
• 23:17
  time
• 23:17
  and
• 23:17
  space.
• 23:18
  And
• 23:18
  it's
• 23:19
  all
• 23:19
  in
• 23:19
  you.
• 23:19
  And
• 23:20
  we
• 23:20
  offer
• 23:20
  this
• 23:20
  to
• 23:21
  our
• 23:21
  listeners.
• 23:22
  Yes,
• 23:22
  you
• 23:22
  are
• 23:23
  the
• 23:23
  listener.
• 23:23
  There.
• 23:24
  There's.
• 23:24
  There's
• 23:25
  no
• 23:25
  you,
• 23:25
  and
• 23:26
  there's
• 23:26
  only
• 23:26
  you.
• 23:28
  Right
• 23:28
  at
• 23:28
  the
• 23:28
  same
• 23:28
  time.
• 23:29
  Yeah.
• 23:31
  Yep,
• 23:32
  yep,
• 23:32
  yep,
• 23:33
  yep,
• 23:33
  yep.
• 23:33
  So
• 23:36
  we've
• 23:36
  said
• 23:37
  it
• 23:37
  before,
• 23:37
  but
• 23:37
  we're
• 23:38
  interested
• 23:38
  in
• 23:39
  your
• 23:39
  con.
• 23:40
  Yeah,
• 23:41
  yeah.
• 23:41
  When
• 23:41
  did.
• 23:42
  When
• 23:42
  did
• 23:42
  you
• 23:42
  have
• 23:43
  a
• 23:43
  moment
• 23:43
  of
• 23:43
  enlightenment?
• 23:44
  Or
• 23:44
  what.
• 23:45
  What
• 23:45
  on
• 23:46
  your
• 23:46
  path
• 23:46
  has
• 23:47
  helped
• 23:47
  you?
• 23:47
  Or
• 23:47
  what
• 23:48
  are
• 23:48
  you
• 23:48
  struggling
• 23:49
  with?
• 23:49
  Or
• 23:49
  what
• 23:49
  would.
• 23:50
  What
• 23:50
  do
• 23:50
  you
• 23:50
  want
• 23:51
  to
• 23:51
  find
• 23:51
  a
• 23:51
  way
• 23:51
  around?
• 23:52
  What
• 23:53
  has
• 23:53
  inspired
• 23:54
  you
• 23:54
  to
• 23:54
  find
• 23:55
  your
• 23:55
  authentic
• 23:56
  self?
• 23:56
  What
• 23:57
  choices
• 23:57
  have
• 23:57
  you
• 23:58
  made
• 23:58
  in
• 23:58
  your
• 23:58
  life
• 23:58
  that
• 23:59
  help
• 23:59
  you
• 23:59
  go
• 23:59
  this
• 23:59
  way
• 24:00
  instead
• 24:00
  of
• 24:00
  that?
• 24:01
  What
• 24:01
  maybe
• 24:02
  regrets?
• 24:03
  What
• 24:04
  opportunities
• 24:04
  that
• 24:05
  you
• 24:05
  have
• 24:05
  in
• 24:05
  your
• 24:05
  life?
• 24:05
  What
• 24:06
  is
• 24:06
  your
• 24:06
  experience
• 24:07
  in
• 24:07
  philosophy?
• 24:07
  What
• 24:08
  is
• 24:08
  your
• 24:08
  experience?
• 24:09
  Philosophy
• 24:10
  is
• 24:10
  a
• 24:10
  way
• 24:10
  of
• 24:11
  wisdom
• 24:11
  with
• 24:12
  a
• 24:12
  living
• 24:12
  conversation.
• 24:13
  We
• 24:13
  want
• 24:13
  to
• 24:13
  know
• 24:14
  more
• 24:14
  about
• 24:14
  life,
• 24:15
  about
• 24:15
  how
• 24:15
  philosophy
• 24:16
  influences
• 24:17
  your
• 24:17
  life
• 24:18
  in
• 24:19
  its
• 24:20
  special
• 24:20
  context.
• 24:21
  In
• 24:22
  the
• 24:22
  universe
• 24:23
  put
• 24:23
  into
• 24:24
  you,
• 24:24
  into
• 24:25
  your
• 24:25
  life,
• 24:25
  into
• 24:25
  your
• 24:26
  relationships,
• 24:26
  into
• 24:27
  your
• 24:27
  experience.
• 24:27
  We
• 24:28
  want
• 24:28
  to
• 24:28
  know
• 24:28
  more
• 24:29
  of
• 24:29
  those.
• 24:32
  And
• 24:32
  it's
• 24:32
  this
• 24:33
  idea
• 24:33
  or
• 24:35
  it's
• 24:36
  an
• 24:37
  interest
• 24:37
  of,
• 24:38
  you
• 24:38
  know,
• 24:38
  I,
• 24:39
  I
• 24:39
  always
• 24:40
  looked
• 24:40
  at
• 24:40
  this,
• 24:41
  this
• 24:41
  word
• 24:42
  philosophy
• 24:43
  and
• 24:43
  it's
• 24:44
  translated
• 24:44
  as
• 24:45
  knowledge
• 24:45
  or
• 24:46
  wisdom.
• 24:47
  And
• 24:49
  I,
• 24:50
  I
• 24:50
  want
• 24:50
  to,
• 24:51
  I
• 24:51
  want
• 24:51
  to
• 24:53
  assist
• 24:53
  in
• 24:54
  transferring.
• 24:55
  How
• 24:55
  does
• 24:55
  knowledge
• 24:57
  transform
• 24:57
  into
• 24:58
  wisdom?
• 24:59
  Because
• 25:00
  wisdom,
• 25:01
  knowledge
• 25:02
  you
• 25:02
  could
• 25:02
  think
• 25:02
  about,
• 25:03
  but
• 25:04
  wisdom
• 25:04
  is
• 25:05
  something
• 25:05
  else.
• 25:06
  It's
• 25:06
  something
• 25:06
  outside
• 25:07
  of
• 25:07
  thinking.
• 25:08
  And
• 25:10
  that's
• 25:10
  part
• 25:11
  of
• 25:11
  what
• 25:12
  I
• 25:13
  think
• 25:13
  both
• 25:15
  Adam
• 25:15
  and
• 25:16
  I
• 25:16
  are
• 25:16
  interested
• 25:17
  for
• 25:17
  you
• 25:18
  is
• 25:18
  how
• 25:18
  do
• 25:18
  you
• 25:19
  find
• 25:22
  the
• 25:22
  way
• 25:22
  out
• 25:23
  beyond
• 25:24
  thinking
• 25:25
  to
• 25:25
  wisdom?
• 25:28
  And
• 25:28
  to
• 25:28
  come
• 25:28
  back
• 25:29
  to
• 25:29
  the
• 25:29
  opening
• 25:30
  part
• 25:30
  of
• 25:31
  our
• 25:31
  show,
• 25:32
  how
• 25:32
  do
• 25:32
  we
• 25:32
  clean
• 25:33
  the
• 25:33
  bowl
• 25:35
  of
• 25:35
  all
• 25:36
  the
• 25:37
  stagnating
• 25:37
  stuff
• 25:39
  of
• 25:39
  thoughts
• 25:40
  and
• 25:41
  objects
• 25:41
  and
• 25:42
  that
• 25:42
  are
• 25:42
  old
• 25:43
  and
• 25:45
  allow
• 25:46
  that
• 25:46
  to
• 25:48
  make
• 25:49
  space
• 25:49
  for
• 25:49
  something
• 25:51
  that's
• 25:51
  always
• 25:51
  been
• 25:52
  there,
• 25:54
  but
• 25:55
  to
• 25:55
  show
• 25:55
  up
• 25:55
  in
• 25:55
  a
• 25:56
  way
• 25:57
  that
• 26:00
  you're
• 26:00
  no
• 26:00
  longer
• 26:01
  you,
• 26:01
  but
• 26:02
  you're
• 26:02
  only
• 26:02
  you.
• 26:03
  You
• 26:04
  know,
• 26:04
  again,
• 26:07
  this
• 26:07
  is
• 26:07
  part
• 26:08
  of
• 26:08
  the
• 26:08
  joy
• 26:08
  I,
• 26:09
  I
• 26:09
  get
• 26:09
  and
• 26:09
  I
• 26:09
  think,
• 26:10
  Adam,
• 26:10
  you
• 26:10
  get
• 26:10
  it
• 26:10
  also.
• 26:11
  And
• 26:11
  in,
• 26:11
  in
• 26:12
  working
• 26:12
  with
• 26:12
  philosophy,
• 26:13
  it's,
• 26:14
  it's
• 26:14
  this,
• 26:15
  this
• 26:15
  useless
• 26:16
  thing
• 26:17
  that
• 26:17
  can
• 26:18
  allow
• 26:19
  awareness
• 26:20
  to
• 26:20
  go
• 26:20
  beyond
• 26:23
  being
• 26:24
  caught.
• 26:25
  Yeah,
• 26:25
  yeah,
• 26:26
  the,
• 26:26
  the,
• 26:27
  the
• 26:27
  narrow
• 26:27
  tree
• 26:28
  was
• 26:28
  useless,
• 26:28
  but
• 26:29
  because
• 26:29
  it
• 26:30
  was
• 26:30
  useless
• 26:30
  it
• 26:30
  fulfilled
• 26:31
  its
• 26:31
  great
• 26:31
  use.
• 26:32
  So
• 26:33
  some
• 26:33
  people
• 26:33
  think
• 26:33
  philosophy
• 26:34
  is
• 26:34
  useless.
• 26:35
  Okay?
• 26:35
  They
• 26:35
  can
• 26:35
  think
• 26:36
  that
• 26:36
  they
• 26:36
  won't
• 26:36
  cut
• 26:36
  us
• 26:37
  down
• 26:37
  because
• 26:38
  they
• 26:38
  think
• 26:38
  it's
• 26:39
  useless.
• 26:39
  But
• 26:40
  actually
• 26:40
  philosophy
• 26:41
  has
• 26:41
  a
• 26:41
  great
• 26:41
  use
• 26:42
  that
• 26:42
  can
• 26:43
  fulfill
• 26:44
  our
• 26:44
  own
• 26:44
  nature,
• 26:44
  can
• 26:45
  fulfill
• 26:45
  our
• 26:46
  all
• 26:46
  true
• 26:46
  nature.
• 26:48
  I
• 26:48
  have
• 26:49
  as
• 26:49
  you
• 26:49
  were
• 26:49
  speaking,
• 26:50
  one
• 26:50
  way
• 26:51
  that
• 26:51
  they
• 26:51
  say
• 26:52
  to
• 26:52
  go
• 26:53
  past
• 26:53
  knowledge
• 26:54
  and
• 26:54
  into
• 26:54
  wisdom
• 26:55
  is
• 26:55
  also
• 26:55
  from
• 26:55
  Chuang
• 26:56
  Tzu
• 26:56
  for
• 26:57
  getting
• 26:57
  yourself.
• 26:58
  Oh,
• 26:58
  that's
• 26:59
  right.
• 26:59
  We'll
• 26:59
  talk
• 26:59
  about
• 26:59
  that
• 27:00
  next
• 27:00
  time,
• 27:01
  okay,
• 27:01
  because
• 27:02
  that's
• 27:02
  really
• 27:02
  a
• 27:02
  key
• 27:03
  point.
• 27:04
  And
• 27:04
  we'll
• 27:04
  be
• 27:04
  back
• 27:05
  in
• 27:05
  a
• 27:05
  couple
• 27:05
  of
• 27:05
  weeks.
• 27:07
  I'm
• 27:07
  Anthony
• 27:07
  Wright
• 27:08
  and
• 27:08
  I
• 27:09
  am
• 27:09
  your
• 27:09
  co
• 27:09
  host
• 27:09
  today
• 27:10
  on
• 27:10
  attunement
• 27:11
  Living
• 27:11
  conversation
• 27:11
  with
• 27:12
  my
• 27:12
  co
• 27:12
  host
• 27:13
  Adam
• 27:13
  Dietz.
• 27:14
  And
• 27:14
  you
• 27:14
  can
• 27:14
  contact
• 27:15
  me
• 27:15
  at
• 27:15
  my
• 27:15
  website,
• 27:16
  theonaut
• 27:17
  T-H-E-O-N-A-T.com
• 27:19
  and
• 27:19
  Adam.
• 27:20
  Yeah,
• 27:20
  contact
• 27:21
  me
• 27:21
  at
• 27:22
  deeds
• 27:22
  Adam
• 27:22
  D
• 27:23
  I
• 27:23
  E
• 27:23
  t
• 27:23
  z
• 27:23
  adam
• 27:24
  gmail.com
• 27:26
  or
• 27:26
  you
• 27:26
  can
• 27:27
  find
• 27:27
  me.
• 27:27
  The
• 27:27
  main
• 27:28
  hub
• 27:28
  for
• 27:28
  most
• 27:28
  of
• 27:28
  my
• 27:28
  work
• 27:29
  is
• 27:29
  on
• 27:29
  substack
• 27:30
  so
• 27:30
  you
• 27:30
  can
• 27:30
  search
• 27:30
  for
• 27:31
  the
• 27:31
  way
• 27:31
  between
• 27:31
  on
• 27:32
  substack
• 27:32
  or
• 27:33
  type
• 27:33
  in
• 27:33
  the
• 27:33
  way
• 27:34
  between
• 27:34
  substack.com.
• 27:36
  Great.
• 27:36
  Well
• 27:37
  thank
• 27:37
  you
• 27:37
  so
• 27:37
  much
• 27:38
  for
• 27:38
  listening
• 27:38
  and
• 27:39
  watching
• 27:39
  us
• 27:41
  and
• 27:41
  we
• 27:41
  look
• 27:41
  forward
• 27:42
  to
• 27:42
  seeing
• 27:42
  you
• 27:42
  next
• 27:42
  time.
• 27:44
  Bye
• 27:44
  now.