Latest / Cinema Yūgen / The Untold Journey of 'Explorers': An Interview with Screenwriter Eric Luke

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The Untold Journey of 'Explorers': An Interview with Screenwriter Eric Luke · Cinema Yūgen

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G'day. That's right. It's that time again. Time for Cinema Yugen.
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Music.
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Yes, Cinema Yugen classic episode debut, actually premiere of the audio interview I had with,
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Explorers screenwriter, that's Joe Dante's Explorers, ladies and gentlemen,
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starring Ethan Hawke, River Phoenix.
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The classic Joe Dante, which is Joe Dante's spin, if you will,
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on this island earth, which is also featured in the film.
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My interview with Eric Luke, who is the screenwriter, the man of the hour who
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walked in right place, right time. E.T.
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Had struck, and they were looking for films with kids and aliens,
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and Eric was Johnny on the spot, had exactly what they were looking for.
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So here it is, for the first time for your listening pleasure.
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I quickly learned that transcribing interviews was not what I wanted to be doing
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a lot of, certainly not hundreds of.
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So now for your listening pleasure, the first time, first time you'll hear the
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audio interview between me and the man,
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the legend who created Explorers on the page for our viewing pleasure.
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The mighty Eric Luke here on Cinema You Gooden. Welcome, Eric.
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That's great. That's great. It's always nice. I mean, it's been such a long time.
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Yeah. And, you know, it was the sort of experience where it was released and
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it didn't do very well. In fact, it did horribly initially.
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And I thought, well, that's that. It was a nice pipe dream and it really paid
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the bills in a very nice way while it happened.
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But that's its time is over.
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And, you know, I'm happy that it happened. But, you know, goodbye.
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Well, over the years, it's come back again and again.
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Just I'll be talking to somebody and it's people of a certain age who I think
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who were still watching VHS tapes.
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You know, because it was released on VHS and could.
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So the idea was that they would watch the tapes over and over and over and sort
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of get to know the movie a little bit better than they would nowadays where
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you stream it lights and then sort of go on to the next thing.
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Right, yeah. Well, it certainly...
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I mean, certainly for my age group and growing up watching these movies on video,
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because I mean, I only ever saw it on video. I did not see it at the cinema.
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Right. So, you know. Not many people did, by the way.
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I'm not sure. I mean, I was very surprised. I mean, like a lot of these movies,
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it seems to be the trend that they come out and don't meet expectations as far
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as, you know, studios would like.
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And then they well back back then
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was the beginning of this trend where if it didn't do well in
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the opening weekend they did not give it
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time to catch on right and especially back
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then there was no secondary market it was not going
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to netflix there was no netflix right it
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wasn't going there was no online market it was
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it would basically disappear unless they
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gave it a release on vhs and then you could
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go rent it at a store yes now it
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didn't it we did so poorly the initial weekend that they said oh it it's a failure
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we're not even going to release it on vhs and then a little while later they
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said well let's just give this a try and it did moderately well but was never,
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it was always called a cult, you know, a cult hit.
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Right. But, you know, never, never was considered any kind of,
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you know, financial hit at all.
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Right, yeah. But, I mean, it has gone on because of, you know,
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it has a lot of, I think, enduring qualities about it.
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I mean, there's so few films today that have.
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I'm sorry, that sentence broke up. Yeah, sorry. I think there's so few films today that have...
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Some of the ingredients that's in it i mean it has a wonderful cast it has a wonderful,
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message it you know i mean there's there's something to say in the film you
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know i don't know if you know there's always there's always that you come to
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this this crossroads with,
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with with art and things like that where they talk about back in the day you
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know it was it It wasn't so much about how much you could sell.
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It was about what you had to say, you know, with, with, with,
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whether it be a song or a painting or a movie, it was, it was,
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you know, it was a good story with something.
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It was on the, the, the thing that sold it because I was working in a science fiction bookstore.
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I graduated from UCLA film department and was, I'd written a couple of scripts and nothing took off.
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But the thing that sold it, that Paramount thought, yeah, let's make this,
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was like the one-sentence concept of, because E.T. had just been the biggest hit ever.
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And so my answer to that was, three boys build their own spaceship and go to outer space.
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And it all works. You know, it's not just a fantasy.
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There's actually some scientific underpinning. And it was beginning to be the
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era where it was the concept of the film that was selling it rather than characterizing it.
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So I have to say that that one sentence is what sold it.
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But then to have the characters to pack it up and the emotion and all of the
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stuff that needs to be there for a good story, I think is what has made it last.
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But they were really open to high concept movies in a big way.
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And I think it's been the same ever since.
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It's sort of stayed that way for a long, long time. Yeah. So you were always
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interested in movies, making movies, screenwriting, all that type of thing?
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Yes, yes. Ever since I was a kid, I picked up the home movie camera and started
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making movies in elementary school and just kept at it all the way through high
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school and then went to UCLA for college to learn how to do that.
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But but, you know, I was not I didn't grow up in Los Angeles.
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I had no concept of how to to try to be successful and get into into the film industry.
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It just it was a big mystery. So to have this script was sort of my my ticket in.
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And I think I chanced on the right idea at the right time.
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But, you know, I was basically working.
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You know, I was going to be a film editor at the small special effects house.
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And I had no idea what the future looked like.
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And then, you know, one night this idea came to me that was actually back from
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when I was a kid and we used to actually pretend that we had our own spaceship.
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So I went back and just played Let's Pretend again with this screenplay and
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made the whole thing happen. Right. And that's how it worked.
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That's how it worked. So where did you, okay, you sit down and you write the script.
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So how did you go from there? Did you have to go through the regular channels
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or did you give it to somebody who was interested?
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Like you said, the one sentence. Yeah, I got out of UCLA with a short film and
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just took it to all the studios.
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And the big story at the time was that Spielberg had crawled over the back fence
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at Universal and set up his own office.
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We'd just got a nameplate, put it on an office door and pretended like he was
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part of the film department, and nobody questioned it, and that's how he got his career going.
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So I knew you had to be fearless, and so I just cold-called from the outside
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and said, I have this, would you like to look at it, and got an agent through that,
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and then they actually...
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Passed on it and said, we don't think this script is, you know,
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is sellable and or marketable.
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And then one of those agents broke off and formed her own agency and said,
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I think I can do something with this.
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So it was like a series of dominoes falling over.
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And she submitted it over a weekend read.
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Everybody passed on it, except for the last guy who said, I like this a lot.
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He took it around. All the studios passed on it, except for Paramount at the
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very end, who said, yeah, we like this. We think we could do something with it.
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I developed it with them, and they showed it to all kinds of directors.
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Everybody passed on it. And one of the last directors was Joe Dante,
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who said, I love this. Who do I talk to about this?
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So it was a series of steps where it went right to the cliff edge,
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where I thought, okay, that was it.
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It was a nice career while it lasted, but nothing ever happened.
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And then at the very end, it actually did. Right.
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Right. So is the film that we have seen, is that pretty close to your exact
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script, or was it altered a lot?
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It was altered a lot. That was my first experience with the studio development process.
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Right. And my third act, once they go to outer space, was always more of a boy's adventure movie. Okay.
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And there was more at stake. You know, there was more, there were actually,
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you know, bad aliens and good aliens and the kids were caught in the middle
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and they had to, you know, accomplish this.
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They were trying to get a crystal that had all the secrets of the Martian civilization.
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So it really felt like, you know, boy's adventure or something like that.
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And then Joe Dante came in and his whole thing is pulling out the rug under people's expectation.
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And he, I think in response to the feeling like everybody's going to expect
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them to have this Spielbergian cosmic experience in space, wanted to say,
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no, actually, the big reveal is their kids just like you.
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And they watch TV. They watch monsters just like you. They love science fiction just like you.
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So that was his big twist. So that third act never felt like mine,
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but I certainly worked with Joe to try and work with that concept and make it the best it could be.
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It really did change from my first draft.
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Okay. So you worked more with Joe Dante on the script than, say,
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the producers, or was it sort of a bit of both?
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It was a long process. I initially worked with the producers in the studio,
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developed it in order to get it to Joe Dante.
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And then Joe said, OK, because he had just had Gremlins, which was,
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again, one of the most successful movies ever. Sure.
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So he had the he was the 800 pound gorilla that could say, no,
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I want to develop it my way. And the studio backed off.
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So suddenly I was working with Joe and his team.
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So I got a real education about what the development was.
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Process is like and who has the creative
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power to to you know finally their foot down and say this is this is mine now
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and this is my vision and so was that a better experience working with the director
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was who was initially going to conceive it then then a bunch of sort of story
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people trying to make it fit a mold.
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Absolutely. Because it was all art by committee.
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And it felt like people, you know, giving me creative notes based on marketing,
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or based on some concept that I had no idea why.
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Why? I didn't, I didn't understand it. But at that point, I was saying,
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Oh, boy, anything, just tell me what to do.
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And I'll, I mean, I, I, I, it's not that I gave up my,
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I, I, there was a there's a
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feeling you know because you sell the script yes and and
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you are working on it by virtue
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of their the you know they've said yes we want you to be here but we could just
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as easily give it to somebody else right so you know me being really young thought
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i'll work with these people i'll definitely i want to be involved with this
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i feel don't feel ownership even though it's changing, you know,
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my eyes. You want to be a team player.
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To work with Joe was a relief. Yes. He is a great guy.
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He included me in the entire process where I said, I actually want to stay on
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this through production and through post-production.
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And he said, absolutely. So it was like the best film school in the world for
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me. Wonderful. You know, being apprenticing myself to him.
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Yeah. So you got to hang out. so you
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got to hang out uh during production you
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were there on the set constantly yeah i
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went with him up to ilm i sat through the sound
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mix i you know all the way up to the release i was really just sort of shadowing
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him and i had nothing but good memories he's really it was really a great time
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very exciting time yes well i mean you know i mean it was it was a double whammy
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for you your first script sold, your first production.
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I mean, there's so many stories where writers sell scripts, but they never get...
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Into production but you you were fortunate enough to sell not only
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your first one but to and and to be included
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as you were uh what oh so many
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scripts get taken taken away from people sure and
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then and then they you know there's this sort of you just wait goodbye to it
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and then it turns up later in the theater and you don't recognize it but this
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i was on i was on all the way you know through the because because there was
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on these huge sound stages at paramount yes Like that whole, the whole,
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that, you know, the creek where they built the spaceship.
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Right, yeah. A life-size creek that they built in the back of it.
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Okay, so that was all interior. That was all sets.
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Sorry, that was all a set. That wasn't exteriors. That was all a set. Right.
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Right, right. I think there are a few helicopter flyover shots,
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aerial shots, where they have establishing daytime of a real neighborhood,
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but the rest is shot on a soundstage. Really? Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah. It was really odd for me because I based that on a creek behind
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my house when I was a kid. Right.
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And here it was recreated in Hollywood on a big soundstage. And it was so real
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that I remember one day the first AD said, I have to make an announcement.
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We want the grips to stop urinating in the underbrush.
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Because, you know, it was just so real. I guess they just lost track of that. But it was horrible.
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Well, that's incredible. So most of it was all soundstage stuff.
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There was very little...
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Obviously some of the street scenes had to have been you know
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like when the when the when the boys are out riding their bikes in
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the street and whatever and you know
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when that's right right it's pretty obvious yeah when there those are real exteriors
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but yeah so much of it daytime and nighttime had to be shot on that soundstage
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that they they said let's just build it it gives us much more control and there's
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there's so much that has to happen there all quite building the spaceship.
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Yeah. And quite right, you don't have to worry about the weather and all that sort of thing.
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Exactly. And also, they were kids. You know, they can only work with them so many hours per day.
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That's right, yeah. They were all 14, and so there was all this scheduling stuff with them.
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Yeah. And then, of course, the whole ending of the interior of that spaceship,
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was all, you know, on huge on sound stages, too.
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It doesn't look that big on the finished film, but Well, you walked onto that
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set and it was pretty amazing.
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I can imagine like where the, when they, they first land on it,
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it looks like a pretty cavernous space where their, where their ship touches
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down and when the electrodes sort of go all over the ship and where they eventually
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take off from looks like a rather cavernous space.
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And also the, uh, the moon lounge, if you will, where they, they sit and watch
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TV and all that sort of thing.
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Yeah. That looks like it was, it was, It was pretty clever as far as multipurposing
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the different sections, because the whole interior of the spaceship had that look.
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I remember Joe walking in and saying, this feels like 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T.
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If you've ever seen the old Dr. Seuss film. I have, yes, yes.
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He says, this feels like that. Hopefully that's not a bad omen because that felt it so badly.
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But the look of that with those, you know, that odd sort of reflective,
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a dully reflective surface.
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Yes. Oh, wonderful. Well, that was something I didn't know, that there was all
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that creak was all the set. It certainly looked like it was the outside,
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that's for sure. Yeah, yeah.
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But it was, I really thought it was just great.
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I mean, it was such a great, everything sort of, I know for me,
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and certainly there's other people that feel the same way, it all sort of came
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together because the three boys really sort of represent,
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I think, a good collective.
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You know you've got the dreamers you've got
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the skeptics and you've got the the scientific
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you know the the logical minded people and i
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thought it was a great a great sort of balance to carry
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through this you know really fantastic tale because like you said in in your
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conception of the idea who hasn't sat behind the wheel of a car and pretended
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they're when you're a little kid you pretend you're driving a car or you you
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know you have a uh a refrigerator box and pretend it's a,
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rocket ship and and this really
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i mean when i certainly when i saw it certainly the the scenes particularly
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at the end right before the the credits when they're flying i mean i can remember
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you know watching you know superman and things like that and thinking how wonderful
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it would be to simply be soaring through the air,
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but just as you were, not as a superhero,
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just as they are flying at the end, going on to new dreams and...
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And more expansive dreams, which will lead to other adventures, of course.
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Yeah, and that's what I thought at the end, that it left it open.
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I was going to say that it was essential for me. When I was a kid,
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I loved science fiction.
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My father was a scientist at NASA for the first moon shot. shots.
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And all of that excitement, well, for John Glenn and then for the first moon
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landing, my father was part of the NASA, he was a computer programmer.
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And so for me growing up, there was always this feeling that the science had to be working also.
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So, you know, you could write a
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screenplay where anything can happen and it's a
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it's a fantasy but the underpinnings of
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hey maybe this could really work and actually
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that then computers were just starting to be this thing where you have the feeling
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like it's that if you could program in these pre-internet days if you could
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find the right circuit board or the right program computers were the new magic
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and they hadn't come into their own the way they have nowadays.
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And there wasn't any social media. There weren't apps that you could download
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every day, every second of the day.
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It was really basic computers and computer graphics and really simple,
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straightforward programming language.
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But it was just the beginning of that where it did feel like the new magic and
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that you could fly or you could create force fields or you could do whatever
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you wanted if you just needed the right program. Yes.
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But, you know, I think,
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know there was there was so much i mean even though you know you yourself were influenced by,
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you know the 1950s science fiction movies and and certainly a lot of reference
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like is i feel like there's a lot of references there from from joseph newman's this island earth,
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because in watching i remember seeing this island
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earth actually before i saw explorers on a
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videotape and it the idea
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that the humans are brought to help aliens sort of reconstruct their their technology
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and i remember watching wow that that's very much like you know and and then
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of course he's watching he's watching this island earth in the in the movie
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in the movie within in the movie?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's also the idea at the beginning that they're given
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the special message, the thing to build, which will allow them to communicate with outer space.
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You know, the magic, the magic pristle in effect, the alien technology that
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will then expand the world and allow them to explore outer space.
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So working, so you had a really privileged start you're working with joe dante
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who has a who's you know had a marvel has a marvelous career,
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like you said he just came off gremlins when you
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heard oh had you seen gremlins had were you aware of of joe dante when you were
23:10
obviously contacted and in fact in fact it was that was one of the nights of
23:16
my life because they said oh there's this new movie gremlins and the director
23:21
of it is interested in explorers.
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There's a screening of it tonight at the, it was called the Man's Chinese Theater,
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but it used to be Grauman's Chinese Theater in Hollywood.
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And Joe is going to be there. So I went and I watched Gremlins sitting behind Joe Dante.
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We hadn't met yet, but I knew that that was him. Wow.
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And the, you know, the crowd was going nuts.
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They loved it. And I just thought, oh God, if this guy says yes to this script,
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this is a This is fantastic.
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So it was really memorable. Yeah.
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And like I said before, a great young cast.
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You had a young Ethan Hawke, a young River Phoenix.
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Be a joe dante movie without dick miller or robert picardo
24:10
exactly yeah exactly but
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uh all the i thought all the boys were wonderful i mean
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i i was i i guess i i
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liked the film a lot because i identified very much with with
24:23
ethan hawke's character that was the kind of kid i was uh growing
24:28
up yeah so i i seeing him like you know he's he's like well why can't we just
24:33
why can't we just do it and and and wolfgang's always like no we need to research
24:38
it and whatever and darren's like oh i don't care and he's like come on why
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don't you guys believe in this stuff you know,
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and you know and he also we gave uh darren the mechanical aptitude to actually
24:51
assemble the whole thing you know to be able to work with tools yeah and he
24:55
has sort of unhappy home life you just get a little hint that that's going on
25:01
so he's looking for a reason to escape Yeah.
25:04
I love the whole christening of the ship. I love the whole christening of the ship scene.
25:12
You know, he comes down, he goes, it's good beer. My dad drinks a lot of it, you know?
25:16
Yeah. And he goes, you know, and they christen it, what is it? The Thunder Road.
25:21
And he goes, it's from a Bruce Springsteen song. Because the other guys are
25:24
trying to come up with, like, you know, very...
25:27
Shall we say, not pretentious names, I guess, but, you know,
25:31
the Einstein or the Jules Verne or, you know.
25:36
Yeah. And that's another great memory.
25:39
They said, we don't think we're
25:40
going to be able to get the rights to call it the Thunder Road. Okay.
25:45
And I said, can I write a personal letter to Bruce Springsteen because that's
25:50
one of the anthems of my youth, you know.
25:55
And so I wrote a really heartfelt letter to him about, you know,
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as I was growing up, I used to just drive all night and put that on the,
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you know, play that on the car stereo, just like it's supposed to be.
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And this really speaks to me.
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And he wrote back and said, yeah, go ahead and use it.
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So that was another great moment. I don't know if it was I don't know if it
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was I don't I don't know if it was conscious on your behalf but was the was
26:22
the Starkiller reference a reference to the early Star Wars,
26:26
Star yeah the Luke's the Luke Starkiller.
26:31
I had read early on the a
26:35
script an early script of Star Wars that somebody slipped
26:38
me where it was called like the Starkiller Chronicles or
26:41
something like that right yeah and or Chronicles
26:44
of the there's some alien name it's really
26:47
awkward but that's definitely that right
26:50
yeah i i
26:53
actually i would have loved to have seen more of the of
26:57
the star killer movie that was going on that was really
27:01
was that was that was that a separate obviously a
27:04
separate little production they obviously had to film that they yeah
27:09
they built that over on another stage and i have
27:12
to say that that was the day that joe was obviously having
27:15
the most fun yeah i mean he that would have
27:17
taken him back to his roger corman they would
27:20
have taken him back to his corman roots yes yes
27:24
exactly and and you know he was dealing with the studio with all of this you
27:30
know some tension every day and that particular day he just had a blast yeah
27:36
you could see him you know just open up and go, oh, this is my,
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you know, this is what I love.
27:42
I love how it was slightly out of, like the dialogue was done after the fact,
27:48
like ADR, because their lips you know.
27:50
It was supposed to be an Italian production that had been poorly dubbed into English.
27:57
Oh yeah, I love that element of it, I thought that was so great,
28:00
and I love how they're discussing the film, he goes, oh, Starkiller,
28:03
I've seen this, and he's like, yeah, she's got three navels.
28:08
He goes does she take her clothes off yeah she's got three navels um.
28:15
Yeah i thought there's so many great bits
28:18
one another thing i wanted to ask you was with the dick miller
28:21
thing it's always always made me think when he's on the phone he
28:24
rings up his buddy when he's on the phone when he's because he can't sort of
28:27
let it go the fact that they saw this ufo when he says to the guy he says you
28:33
know i've been having dreams about this thing and i haven't had this kind of
28:35
dream since as a since i was a kid is he is he having is he having the same,
28:42
dreams that the boys were or is it is that is that a different sort of.
28:48
Yeah sorry that was the idea it was you
28:51
know joe would come to me at the
28:54
end of every day and say here are the scenes for
28:57
tomorrow can we get something more and you
29:01
know we would sort of work day to day which i
29:04
was surprised at because the studio would try and lock the
29:07
script and say no more changes right and here
29:10
was joe improvising with the kids and coming
29:13
up with great ideas and little little moments and
29:16
with the dick miller character he said i need something more from him you know
29:22
he was initially just sort of a threat that they would be discovered and somehow
29:26
stop them from you know going to space there needed to be there that you know
29:33
a threat for them to overcome. Right.
29:35
And he, and so through discussion with Joe, he said, what if he remembers,
29:41
what if it's his remembering his own childhood?
29:44
Right. And the same, you know, so it never comes out as a big plot point, but it's not there.
29:51
No, it was, yeah, I was always sort of curious, although it's particularly when
29:54
he says, I haven't had these kinds of dreams since I was a kid.
29:58
And I thought, is he, because they all, in the end, they have a,
30:01
the collective dream, the three of them.
30:04
And then, and then, and then in the end, his, the, the girl that he likes,
30:10
Lori, she has, she wakes up almost like she's, she's had a connection with it as well somehow.
30:17
And of course, in the end, she's part of the, the dream, the flying at the end.
30:22
Of the, of the flying. Yeah. So I thought, all of that is, all of that is true.
30:28
Yeah. I was always very, always was, I thought, I wish, I hope one day I get
30:33
to talk to someone about it.
30:34
Who knows because it was always bugging me
30:36
i thought does he has he had the same dream or or has
30:40
he been part of the collective dream you know so so
30:44
much of what just falls apart in movies is
30:47
that everything is spelled out there's no mystery
30:50
there are no question marks you know you need the
30:53
studio thinks that you not only need to
30:56
tell everybody you need to tell them twice or three times
30:59
because they're underestimating the
31:02
intelligence of the audience or or even of kids
31:05
to you know to involve in to ask
31:08
questions or to say leave something mysterious yeah
31:11
so that was the idea there was to yeah
31:14
to to make it more interesting by never stating it
31:17
yeah full out yeah yeah i thought it
31:20
was i thought it was great it was subtle and it was something that always i
31:24
was always thinking about because when they take off
31:27
and the way he looks at look he doesn't really stop them
31:30
you know like when he stops him and he says this is your
31:33
jacket like it could have been more intense like he physically tries to to hold
31:38
him back or you know you'll take me to this ufo or something like that but he
31:42
doesn't really stop them you know he's more he's more inquisitive to see if
31:47
it is real and maybe that was the, you know.
31:53
The subtext is like to confirm, you know, that his dreams,
31:56
you know, have substance.
32:00
Have reality yeah and and that and that this
32:03
kid is going to get to go and do something that he never got
32:06
to do himself yes that was great i
32:08
just i just thought that was such a i mean that's to
32:12
me that's missing from from films today there's like you said they they're very
32:15
good at crossing all the t's and uh and dotting all the i's and there's nothing
32:19
really left for you uh not not a lot to ponder at the end because it's all there
32:25
for you yeah i mean you see smaller independent films where There are lots of
32:30
things that are mysterious,
32:32
that are poetic and left up to your interpretation, but big studio films are
32:38
seldom like that because they have to play it so safe. Yeah. For sure. Sure.
32:43
And by the way, it's really great to talk about all these story points after all these years.
32:48
Oh, that's great. I mean, I was different from a lot of my friends.
32:54
I watched films very intensely, I guess.
32:57
The first time was from enjoyment but then
33:00
afterwards of course i go back again uh and
33:04
watching oh yeah i missed that the first time or
33:06
i didn't oh geez i didn't pick up something i didn't see in the background or
33:11
something like that i was i was a very yeah very much a student of of of movies
33:17
as well as watching them for enjoyment of course but yeah but i i was and And I was the same way.
33:25
I watched films, you know, back then you couldn't, the films were not on demand.
33:29
You had to wait for them to come to the local theater or film festivals,
33:33
or maybe they would be on TV again.
33:36
You get to see it maybe a second time, but never a third time.
33:40
So it was really odd to be on
33:43
the other side to be actually making the movie and seeing
33:46
wait a minute each one of these moments is going on
33:49
screen and are people ever going to watch it at all or more than one for you
33:57
know or and actually so again it's just so great and thank you for for doing
34:03
this it's great to talk about it again so what can you can you tell me what that feels like to.
34:10
You're sitting there and you've got the script that you've, you've obviously
34:15
thought about it a long time.
34:16
You wrote it, you hoped that it would get made and then you're sitting there
34:20
on the set watching it come alive.
34:22
That must be, that must be like an indescribable experience.
34:27
It, and actually it just feels like a roller coaster that's going through that,
34:32
you know, because the writing process is all really.
34:37
Timeline of writing is up to you. You know, you get to consider every word and
34:42
you do it in silence and, you know, it's very solitary.
34:46
And all of a sudden there are 30 to 50 people all waiting for the thing to be
34:52
done and to move on to the next thing.
34:54
And you're looking at performance, you know, there are all kinds of people,
34:58
actors being the foremost, but then the people interpreting what you're thinking.
35:04
And if it doesn't feel right to you and you say to yourself,
35:07
okay, but wait a minute, why didn't that feel right?
35:10
And actually, what can I say about it to change it that people will understand?
35:15
And all of a sudden it's onto the next shot and onto the next moment.
35:19
So that was one thing I had to get used to was the pace was unbelievable compared
35:25
to actually sitting down and writing it.
35:28
But then there are moments where you go, oh, that was exactly how I imagined
35:32
it in my head and somehow it all came together. Right.
35:36
So did you do a lot of rewriting during filming?
35:41
Like was there, was it a daily thing? On a daily basis.
35:48
Like I said, Joe would come to me and have ongoing discussions because again,
35:54
I had said, can I be involved in this whole thing?
35:57
And he said, absolutely. I'd love to have the writer on the set every day because
36:01
then we can talk about how to change, you know, make these little changes. So I,
36:08
remember even coming up to him during a shot or you know or saying because they
36:13
were going to do a second take and i said how about this how about giving them
36:17
this and he was completely open to that which many directors would have just
36:21
said you know shut up yeah you're bothering me but he,
36:26
was really open to that i often i often think i like the way it was portrayed
36:30
in in the austin powers film where steven spielberg is directing a uh an austin
36:36
powers movie and he says you know Stephen I don't think it should be he goes
36:39
my little friend thinks it's fine the way it is you know and he waves the Oscar you know.
36:49
But I tell you I've always wanted to know is it one of your lines or is it improvised
36:55
the line about Lassie where the alien says I watched four episodes of Assie
37:02
before I wonder why the little hairy kid never spoke,
37:06
yeah that was actually robert
37:09
picardo okay because and and joe
37:12
really liked to work with him or because he
37:15
improvises and i'll tell you they put him in
37:18
that makeup and turned on the camera and just let him go okay and he came he
37:23
was coming out with one-liners yeah that everyone was was just on the floor
37:28
saying ah you know this has got to be so they just let him go and then edited
37:34
in the ones that were the best,
37:36
which included the Lassie line.
37:38
That was, that's still, I think, one of the funniest lines I've ever heard.
37:42
Yeah, where the little hairy kid never spoke, and sure, he rolled over fine,
37:46
but I don't think he deserved a series for that.
37:49
I thought that was, yeah. And that in the, the other line, the Rolls Canardley,
37:54
Rolls down one hill, Canardley get up in there. Rolls Canardley. Yeah.
37:58
Yeah. That's great. So, that was, so Rob, Rob Bottin worked on the film as well,
38:05
doing the obviously the creatures and.
38:09
Yes. In fact, the look of the creatures, which, you know, of course,
38:14
Joe loves Warner Brothers cartoons and that whole design thing that comes out of Chuck Jones.
38:20
And there's there's always references to Chuck Jones. I mean,
38:24
I, you know, I don't know.
38:26
You know, so Joe, when he was a kid, just watched Warner Brothers cartoons all the time.
38:33
And so and loves that aesthetic and loves the timing and all of that stuff.
38:38
So he was able to bring all of that with him.
38:42
And Rob Bottin, you know, there were all these designs which were very realistic.
38:47
Again, E.T. had just come out and this film being a response to E.T. Right.
38:53
And a lot of the initial designs were very realistic. And then all of a sudden
38:57
these cartoony designs came in and Joe said, that's perfect.
39:02
Right. Look at these. You know, this is what the inside of the,
39:05
this is what the aliens are going to be like. Right. And I went with it.
39:10
I mean, I looked at him and I went, okay, I'm trusting in Joe because this is his film now.
39:18
And yeah, that's how it happened. I think Rob Bottin brought in those designs
39:22
for the aliens. Right. Yeah. Because he worked with Joe on The Howling.
39:27
The Howling. Yeah. And The Howling and The Thing.
39:30
And he's, of course, he's been
39:32
very prolific. He's worked on a lot of big films. But I watched it again.
39:37
I watched it again last night. I watched... Sorry.
39:40
Go ahead. Yeah, no, go ahead. Go ahead.
39:45
That whole idea of change makeup and rubber makeup and transformation makeup,
39:51
of course, is a lost art now because, you know, digital effects can do anything.
39:56
And, you know, you can't see the effect coming.
40:01
Right. Whereas back then the shot would start and there'd be something a little
40:04
odd about it. You go, OK, this is great. What's going to happen?
40:08
And so you'd sort of prepare and then see what the makeup artist could come
40:12
up with because it was physical. It was, it was actually right there in front of you.
40:16
And it's like looking at a puppet master or, you know, that kind of crap as
40:21
opposed to a digital artist working, you know, behind the scenes.
40:26
It must have, it must have been incredible. I mean, cause it's right,
40:29
it's right there for you to, to see and for the boys to interact with.
40:34
And, you know, everything's going on him. His little, his little feelers,
40:37
his eyes, you know, was the mouth, was the mouth puppeteered as well?
40:42
Or was that Robert's mouth?
40:44
Because their mouth was kind of, the mouth was kind of looked like it was down near there.
40:49
That was Picardo's mouth. Okay. One of the few, the few things that he could
40:54
control aside from the arms and the fingers and the body language.
40:59
Right. There was a team of maybe eight technicians surrounding him with bicycle
41:03
cables that were controlling.
41:05
Yeah. The eyes, the, the antenna, you know, the nose. I mean,
41:10
yeah, everything about him. Right.
41:13
And all he had was the mouth. So that was what he started to tell jokes. Yeah.
41:18
Because could he see it all? He probably couldn't see it all, could he?
41:23
No, he couldn't see. Right. So he's just... They had to lead him onto the set,
41:28
like, you know, because he was blind.
41:30
Right. And then just set him up and let him do his thing. Right.
41:36
Let's see. Oh, yeah. That reminds me. Have you seen Stranger Things?
41:41
Stranger Things? No, I haven't seen it yet. but but i've
41:43
heard a lot of good things so it's
41:48
very much an homage to the
41:51
movies of that time and explorers is a big influence in it right uh and those
41:59
those guys i mean it is without being cheap about it it really uses it has a
42:06
great affection for those films and i i really enjoyed it.
42:11
And one of those things is that they made the effects look like the Rob Bottin effects at that time.
42:17
The Spielberg effects with lens flare, or, you know, these little touches that
42:23
just said, we know what you enjoyed about that time and why these kids and these characters.
42:32
And it also reminded me that without the internet, you know, those kids,
42:37
what the internet enabled was that those sort of outsider kids,
42:42
those oddballs, could go online and find a whole community of people that were just like them.
42:49
Back then, they were really isolated.
42:51
And that's one reason why Explorers works and some of the Goonies and those
42:59
other films of that time is because those kids felt isolated and like outsiders.
43:06
And Stranger Things really understands that and captures.
43:09
That yeah no i've not seen it yet but i i very
43:13
much want to because i've heard lots of good
43:16
things but um yeah yeah
43:19
i'd be interested to see what you think because it's for
43:22
fans of that genre and that time period because it's set in 1985 okay yeah it's
43:28
it's like it's like a treasure chest it's like oh my god that shot and that
43:33
effect and that i recognize it all really well It sounds really wonderful because,
43:39
yeah, I'm definitely a child of that period.
43:43
So anything that harkens back to that time is most welcome.
43:51
So anyway, let's talk briefly about it.
43:55
So after Explorers, did you go on?
43:59
Did you try to develop other movies or...
44:06
Have any other other projects that slipped away yeah yeah
44:09
one great thing that happened was that i got put
44:12
on contract at paramount which they were still doing at the time it's unheard
44:18
of now but they actually had a few writers on contract that they would have
44:23
work on different you know like make this script funnier or we've got this project
44:28
that we want to develop in this direction so can you develop it.
44:32
And for me, I got lots of experience writing screenplays and unfortunately,
44:39
responding to studio notes about how to change scripts rather than taking a
44:44
step back and saying, I want to do a deeply personal project the way Explorers was.
44:50
So it really paid the bills and it, you know, for the rest of my life,
44:55
I'm really happy that I had that time.
44:58
And in fact, I followed that regime over to Disney.
45:01
When Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenberg moved from Paramount to Disney,
45:06
they took me along and put me on contract over at Disney.
45:10
And one thing I got to do was write and direct for Disney television.
45:16
There were a couple of movies called Not Quite Human about a robot boy who wanted to be a real boy.
45:24
And at the time, they were really successful. You know, I got to do the sequel
45:29
also because it was successful for Disney TV.
45:32
But it didn't it didn't lead anywhere. I was I got to develop scripts or pitch
45:37
scripts and some got picked up at MGM and at a few other places.
45:43
And then eventually, I think because I kind of reached the end of my,
45:49
you know, creative whatever it is that drove me in the first place.
45:54
You know, it kind of reached the point where the phone wasn't ringing anymore,
45:59
to be, you know, brutally truthful.
46:02
And I went, you know what, I have got to start doing something that really is meaningful to me.
46:09
So I started to write. I started to write novels and rediscovered that,
46:15
you know, that whatever it is, that fire that originally got explorers written.
46:19
Right. Well, that's great.
46:22
Do you have any, how shall we say, is there any anecdotes from the making of
46:27
Explorers that no one's heard of yet that you might be able to share?
46:32
Well, any, I don't know, something, something, something that's not been.
46:37
The grips were, the grips were peeing in the creek. That's the one.
46:41
And then let's see, Ethan Hawke broke his ankle riding dirt bikes with River Phoenix.
46:48
And so he had to do the rest of the film in a cast. You know,
46:52
that sort of Jackie Chan thing where they make it look like a shoe. Okay. Okay. Right.
46:57
Yeah. Yeah, so he was in a cast for the last part of the film,
47:01
and they had to hide it through production.
47:03
Okay, right. Let's see.
47:08
Oh, boy. That may be it. Okay. I'm sure I'll think of something.
47:13
If I think of something, I'll email you. Okay.
47:16
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Did you? Yep, go ahead.
47:22
You know who was great to work with was James Cromwell as Wolfgang's dad.
47:27
Right. To see his career just skyrocket after that was fantastic. Yeah.
47:34
He started off looking for... And I ran into him two years ago.
47:39
He was giving a lecture or a dramatic reading in Los Angeles here.
47:45
And I went and I said, hey, I don't know if you remember me,
47:48
but I wrote Explorers. And his face lit up.
47:51
Wow. And it was great to see him again after a while. Wow. Yeah.
47:55
There's the bug boom in the basement.
48:01
Yeah but yeah no that was it's
48:04
just a real treat another thing i've got to ask i
48:08
i know there's always stories people talk about you should nick things from
48:11
the set you know props did you pinch anything oh boy i don't um it's maybe that
48:22
i'm i can't think of anything right off the off the top of my head.
48:28
There were no real... When I went up to ILN, they had the miniature Thunder Road and all that stuff.
48:36
Of course, that was under lock and key. I didn't get any of that.
48:40
I've seen some great online home kits of the Thunder Road.
48:44
One in particular is the guy made decals and everything.
48:48
Just a perfect replica.
48:50
But I don't have it yet. Okay.
48:55
No, I just, I just wondered, they often, I've interviewed a few movie professionals
49:01
and I said, did you, did you pinch anything?
49:03
Like I, I recently spoke to Gary Goddard who directed Masters of the Universe
49:08
and I said, did you pinch anything?
49:10
And he said, yeah, he said, I've got He-Man's sword, I've got Skeletor's sword,
49:14
you know, and I said, you know.
49:18
He said, you've got to do that.
49:23
He said, nowadays, that stuff's worth a fortune. If I'd been thinking at the time, I would have.
49:34
I was being very good about everything. I didn't want to rock the boat.
49:37
I was pretty young at the time. Not the first time around.
49:41
I tell you, though, a lot of the experiences, the, you know,
49:47
like the post-production and mixing
49:49
the sound, I was able to use in Interference in my audio book. Right.
49:55
I went back and remembered a lot of those, like there's one chapter in there
50:01
about a guy who's kind of washed up and on his way out and used to do, you know,
50:07
like Roger Corman type movies.
50:10
Right. And that whole chapter, all of that detail is from talking with Joe about
50:16
that whole time and that sort of went to Hollywood,
50:20
washed out sound stages and really low budget of sort of backstreet Hollywood feel. Right.
50:29
Was all based on that, you know, sitting down with those sound mixers and all
50:33
those post-production guys who've been doing it forever since the old days, since the 1950s, 1940s.
50:40
Right. So, you know, I was able to use all that detail later on,
50:44
but no, no physical objects that I stole off the set. Thank you.
50:49
Well, uh, Mr. Luke, it's been a, it's been a singular pleasure talking to you.
50:54
Explorers was, was, and is a very dear film to me.
50:58
And I have very much enjoyed talking with you, the, ultimately the creator of it.
51:06
Thank you so much. This is really a lot of fun. And again, it's so great to
51:11
be, you know, after all these years to be recalling it and all of that.
51:17
Yes. Eric Luke, Explorers.
51:20
Joe Dante. Check out all of his movies, actually.
51:23
Have yourself a movie marathon. Go all the way from Piranha,
51:28
The Howling, all the way up Inner Space, The Burbs, Gremlins,
51:33
Gremlins 2, of course, The New Batch, Matinee. Don't forget matinee.
51:37
Go all the way. Small soldiers.
51:41
Don't leave anything out. Joe Dante, Eric Luke, Explorers, Cinema Yugen.
51:47
Thank you for listening. And we have more episodes coming up after Easter. So stay tuned.
51:53
We have Bill Oberst Jr.
51:57
Coming up. And the first episode, the Lauren Avedon tapes. So,
52:02
this day, today, after Easter, expect more from yours truly, here.
52:11
And as always, my little Eugenites, thank you for listening to us on Spotify
52:17
or wherever you choose to listen to your favorite podcasts.
52:20
I'm Kent Hill, and until next time, you've been listening to Cinema Eugenics.
52:28
Music.