Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E110: What Your Temperament Says About You w/ Alexandre Havard

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E110: What Your Temperament Says About You w/ Alexandre Havard · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  Forget about success, the only important thing for you, it's
• 0:03
  fullness of life. And you achieve this when you
• 0:06
  develop character, when you're faithful to your conscience, to
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  the very last day of your life, leadership.
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  It's about becoming an excellent person.
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  It's about personal growth, even if you have to die for that.
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  Each one of us has a biological inclination, has a specific
• 0:21
  temperament, and you have to identify what is the virtue that
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  is for you a challenge so that you can work on that virtue.
• 0:32
  Hello. Hello everybody.
• 0:33
  Welcome back to the Lila Rose Podcast.
• 0:35
  Today we're going to be talking about excellence in leadership
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  and discovering one's temperament so that we can grow
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  to become more virtuous and really more all around fully
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  alive people. I'm really passionate about this
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  topic at the podcast. I've read endless business books
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  on these topics, endless leadership books on these
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  topics, have listened to all of sort of the gurus of today.
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  But one person that I think is not well known enough and has a
• 0:58
  ton of value to offer this space is none other than Alexander
• 1:02
  Havard. He's not from the United States,
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  He's originally French, he's from now Russia.
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  He travels the world internationally.
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  He speaks several languages, but he writes a lot of books about
• 1:11
  virtue and leadership and temperaments.
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  So today we're going to have an amazing conversation about the
• 1:16
  Temperaments, about how to discover your temperament and
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  how by learning how we are naturally and biologically, we
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  can develop our character so that we can be true leaders that
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  can then change the world. Love topics like this.
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  So without further ado, let's welcome Alex to the podcast.
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  Alexander Havart, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
• 1:35
  Well, thank you for inviting me. So I met you first.
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  I don't know once really. I think it was the one maybe
• 1:41
  twice now, but it was over 15 or over 10 years ago, maybe going
• 1:46
  into 15 when I was living in DC and you were there giving a talk
• 1:50
  on virtuous leadership. And I was like, this stuff is
• 1:52
  awesome. This guy's awesome.
• 1:55
  So I'm glad you're on the show. We have a lot of Americans on
• 1:58
  the show, but you are not American, which is great.
• 2:01
  Obviously, I'm not. But you've written seven books
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  on leadership and virtue and personality development.
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  Yeah, seven books now in 15 years.
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  And travelled around the world to speak on this and train on
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  this. All, all over the world, on the
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  five continents, people are interested in virtuous
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  leadership. I I fly.
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  I speak with them. My books are translated into 20
• 2:27
  languages. So.
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  I have to go and see the people. That.
• 2:30
  Read my books. So that's why I'm here with you
• 2:33
  guys. And how many languages do you
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  speak? I speak five, but I because life
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  is like this. I had to speak 5 languages, but
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  I work in 4 languages. Only four, Yeah.
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  OK. And, you know, we have a lot to
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  learn, I feel, from Europeans about life, in some ways
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  enjoying life. You know, there's this, the
• 2:52
  criticism of Americans we work to obsessively.
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  And in Europe, you take, you appreciate beauty and you take
• 2:59
  breaks. Yeah, I think, I don't know.
• 3:03
  I know, I know, a lot of Europeans would don't.
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  Appreciate. Beauty and.
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  That's just when I'm on vacation in Italy when I went to study
• 3:10
  abroad for a month in in Rome. The thing is that in America you
• 3:13
  have, you have the American dream, so you have to be always
• 3:15
  in the move. It's a part of your culture.
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  It's why it's the why the American system is.
• 3:24
  America is a is a country of movement, of activism.
• 3:28
  There are good things and bad things there.
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  Yes. Well, let's start with a good
• 3:32
  thing that we have in common. We both admire.
• 3:36
  But you knew him personally, Jerome Lejeune, and I want to
• 3:40
  just hear, 'cause you knew him, and I want to hear what that was
• 3:42
  like. Jerome Lejeune, you are French,
• 3:44
  he's French, and he is the inspiration behind the Lejeune
• 3:47
  foundation, which is extremely important in the pro-life space
• 3:50
  internationally. So we'd love to start there.
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  And then I want to get into the leadership formation stuff.
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  In fact, to speak about Jerome, Jerome Lejean, excuse me if I
• 4:00
  pronounce it the French way. Excuse me, I didn't pronounce it
• 4:03
  the American way pronounce. It the American way.
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  Jerome Lejean was a very good friend of mine.
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  We I met him the first for the first time about 30 years ago,
• 4:12
  more than 30 years ago, 35 or 40 years ago, when I was living in
• 4:16
  Strasbourg. I was a lawyer there.
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  Strasbourg was a barrister and I was organizing an international
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  meeting, a pro-life meeting, and he was one of the speakers
• 4:26
  there, and we met for the first time there 45 years ago.
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  And when we speak about Lejeune, in fact we speak about
• 4:33
  leadership, because this person was a real leader in his field.
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  Jerome was the he was the most famous geneticist of the 21st
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  century. I mean, they created in Paris
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  and the Sorbonne University and the chair of genetics of
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  fundamental Genetics only for him.
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  And he was 38. He was the youngest professor of
• 4:56
  genetics of of medicine in France, 38 years old.
• 5:01
  Do you remember? Jerome is very famous because in
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  1958 he discovered the cause of the Down syndrome.
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  Yeah, 1958. And then Jerome was a very
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  interesting personal idea because like many scientists, he
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  was of a phlegmatic temperament. You know, the phlegmatic people
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  are people that are very irrational, very quiet, don't
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  speak much. They like peace, and their
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  approach to reality is very scientific.
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  So they look like, look like biologically that they are not
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  people of greatness. Because they're not so intense
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  and. Because they don't look very
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  intense. They look reserved, shy, timid.
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  And the phlegmatic temperament is what this famous geneticist
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  he discovered how Down syndrome happens.
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  Well, this your friend? Yeah, because it's it's typical
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  from those kind of people to to make great discoveries because
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  they are depassionate. They're very scientific.
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  You have a lot of phlegmatic people in science.
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  Was Einstein a phlegmatic? With.
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  That hair you think? Choleric or something?
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  No, I don't think he was a choleric.
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  But Jerome was a real, real thematic person.
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  He was not speaking much. He was listening a lot.
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  He was, he practiced empathy, he was listening to people.
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  And he he's the one who made that famous discovery.
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  And then he went to San Francisco in 1969 to receive a
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  big award, the biggest, most important award, the most
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  important award for genetics in genetics 1969.
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  And he had to make a speech there.
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  So he, he arrived in San Francisco and he began to speak
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  about people around medical doctors, scientists.
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  And they were telling him one thing.
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  Johome, thank you very much for this discovering.
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  And now we can identify those babies with Down syndrome and we
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  can kill them in the womb of the mother.
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  Thanks for your discovering. The guy was shocked.
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  Jehom was a it was a depression he had.
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  He had Christian. He was profoundly Christian.
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  He had a Christian vision of the world.
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  He loved people. And so he was frightened.
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  He was shocked by what they were telling him.
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  And so he he took the microphone, he gave a speech and
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  he he, he spoke about the dignity of the human person from
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  the very beginning. It was the first, do you
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  remember since 1969. It's very much we're in the very
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  beginning of the culture of death.
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  The pro death. People are taking over all all
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  the world, especially here in California.
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  And legend came at the very moment when everything began and
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  legend understood. I have a mission in life, you
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  know. This very phlegmatic person
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  understood that he has now a mission in life and his mission
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  is going to be to speak, to speak the scientific truth about
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  the commencement of human life. So all this life he's going to
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  speak about from a speak about human life from a scientific
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  point of view. He said, I'm not a Bishop, I'm
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  not a priest, I'm not a theologian, I'm not a
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  philosophers. My field is science, and I know
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  as a scientist that genetics now tells us that if the embryo is
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  not a human being 100% at the moment of control fertilization,
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  then it will never be a human being.
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  Never so that the Queen of England was not a Champanzee
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  during the first two weeks of her life.
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  So he had a sense of humor that was very credible.
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  But then they began to hate him because he was speaking as a
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  scientist. You know, when the Pope speaks,
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  when the Bishop speaks, we'll listen to them and say, OK, it's
• 8:46
  normal. It's their, it's their stuff.
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  When a scientist speaks about about science, about human life,
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  from a scientific point of view, it's frightening because, you
• 8:57
  know, there is a scientist speaking.
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  It is not a priest. It is not a moral theology.
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  This is pure science. If it is not a human being at
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  the very moment of conception, it will never be a human being.
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  So Jerome said you can follow the law of your country, You can
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  accept the law of your country. But this is political
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  correctness. Remember that, he said.
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  Remember, always one thing science abhors obscurantism.
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  And those guys who make lows saying during the two first
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  week, the three first weeks, you can make abortion because this
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  is not a human being, said this guy are.
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  This is absolute obscurantism. This is.
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  Anti. Science.
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  Anti science. This is obscurantism.
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  Anti science. This is Middle Ages.
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  Darkness. This is darkness.
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  We're coming back. You know, 2000 years.
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  So he was very precise about the words he was using and that's
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  why he has a bit impact. And when he was speaking on TV,
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  he was so charming, so quiet and phlegmatic.
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  He knew how to use phlegmatism. He was very scientific words,
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  very depassionate and he was speaking the truth.
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  So he was always winning when there was a debate on TV.
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  So the pro death people decided to to prohibit access to TV.
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  So he. From him.
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  Yeah, he could. Not anymore.
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  How did that work? So people just stopped asking
• 10:26
  him on shows, even though he's the most famous geneticist in
• 10:29
  the world. But because he's so pro-life and
• 10:31
  he kept talking about it, they just stopped having him.
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  On yeah because this is already the beginning of the 1970s.
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  It's the the time of the law and abortion in France.
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  So all the the the lobbies I mean the of course the people
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  with money and and and the intelligence the French
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  intelligence of course they they have power and so explain people
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  we should not invite anymore. Lechon.
• 10:55
  So he was not anymore invited and he he suffered a lot.
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  He lost all his money. He couldn't go with his
• 11:00
  investigation because he had no money and he died the day of
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  Easter Sunday of Easter 1994. Incredible.
• 11:10
  On the morning of day of Easter and in his Trump there are only
• 11:15
  four letters nica amazing Greek victory.
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  Amazing. It's an amazing story because
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  and he was a good friend of Pope John Paul the 2nd.
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  Amazing. You know on May 13th, 1981, when
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  people tried to kill John Paul, Do you remember that day Jerome
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  had lunch with him? Just one hour.
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  Before. Right before they tried to
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  assassinate John. Paul the 2nd, Just one, one or a
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  few hours before. Just incredible.
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  And that's why when Jean Paul the second came to to France a
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  few years after Jerome's death, the first thing he did was to
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  take a car the first thing he did and to go to to pray.
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  I to pray at the time of Jerome legend.
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  They were very good friends and Jerome is not very very famous.
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  But I I promise in a few. In a few years maybe.
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  Yeah, in a few decades when the. All the the darkness of the
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  death, pro death culture will be over.
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  He'll be, he'll be really, really famous.
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  He'll be the great prophet. What's so powerful about Jerome
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  Lejeune is that that's my American pronunciation, but he
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  was so celebratory of the dignity of all persons,
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  including the person with Down syndrome.
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  I mean, obviously he discovered how Down syndrome originates
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  genetically. And you know, the thing that he
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  was celebrating is the thing that the culture he's fighting
• 12:40
  against is actively trying to destroy, Yeah, these children.
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  Now the Jerome was, you know, the his foundation that he said
• 12:47
  his wife began. But is there to advocate for the
• 12:50
  rights of these children and their protection?
• 12:55
  He loved them, he said. These guys, it's not that they
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  have something less is they have something.
• 13:00
  They have too much. They have too much.
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  That's why they're like this. What did he do to serve children
• 13:05
  with Down syndrome? Well, he first, he he explained.
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  Parents. What's that?
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  What's that is and they explain parents that how to deal with
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  them, how to love them. And so he he make parents
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  understand that this is this is just life and that this this boy
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  or this girl is just like anybody else.
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  He has something he has more than the others.
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  That's why he has a He looks strange because he's just too
• 13:30
  much, you know? Genetically an.
• 13:32
  Extra. An extra chromosome.
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  Yeah, Strike. Chromosomia.
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  So he did a lot, but he did a lot for many people.
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  He did a lot also for the woman, the pregnant woman.
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  He created those houses for pregnant women who wanted.
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  To. Who?
• 13:48
  Wanted to have an an abortion and he was one of the first who
• 13:51
  created those places where pregnant women could go and
• 13:54
  could be sure that someone's going to take care of the child.
• 13:58
  So he was not just a pro lifer, he was very close to the reality
• 14:04
  and he knew very well how to help people in a very practical
• 14:08
  way. It's beautiful.
• 14:10
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• 15:00
  You mentioned he's what was a phlegmatic, but then but he was
• 15:03
  a leader. All right, so let's start with
• 15:06
  the temperaments. You've written a lot about
• 15:08
  temperaments and helping people understand what their
• 15:12
  temperament is, so they know how to grow in virtue and as
• 15:16
  leaders. So help our let's start with
• 15:18
  what are the temperaments and how people can discover what
• 15:22
  their temperament is. Yeah, I I've been writing a lot
• 15:25
  in the in the past on the virtuous leadership, so on the
• 15:28
  virtues, on how you how do you multiply, how to grow in virtue
• 15:32
  in character. But then after I discovered that
• 15:35
  we need a starting point. Each one of us has a has a
• 15:38
  biological inclinations, has a specific temperament, and you
• 15:43
  have to identify what is the virtue that is for you a
• 15:47
  challenge, so that you can work on that virtue only on that
• 15:51
  virtue, not on all the virtues, just in that virtue.
• 15:55
  And it will discover that working on that virtue, all the
• 15:57
  other virtues come in because that virtue is for you, the
• 16:00
  really challenging virtue. And I'm going to explain to you
• 16:03
  how you see this. So wait, one quick question here
• 16:06
  to just to jump in right away because it's so this is
• 16:10
  immediately what's in mind and maybe we've heard in culture,
• 16:14
  oh, focus on your strengths, not on your weaknesses.
• 16:18
  So if your natural virtue is, let's say, initiative, you know,
• 16:22
  courage, you just go and take charge.
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  Just do that and don't worry about the fact that you're not
• 16:28
  patient. You know as an example, right?
• 16:30
  I don't like this because you don't have to work much.
• 16:32
  If you're a cleric, you are action oriented.
• 16:35
  You're born a manager. You don't need to work on that.
• 16:38
  You have it what you have to work on, it's what you don't
• 16:42
  have. So I I agree with the idea that
• 16:45
  you have to discover your talents and you have to multiply
• 16:48
  your talents, but you have to remember one thing.
• 16:52
  The temperament is biological talent.
• 16:55
  You don't have to work much on it.
• 16:56
  You don't have to work at all on your on your temperament.
• 16:59
  It is your biological innate inclination.
• 17:02
  You have to work on specific talents you have received from
• 17:05
  God. That's obvious.
• 17:07
  But you don't have to work on your biology.
• 17:09
  Your biology is here and what you have to work, it's on the on
• 17:15
  the virtue, which is difficult for you to practice because of
• 17:19
  very specific biology that you have.
• 17:21
  So let's let's take some example choleric people.
• 17:25
  Do you know there are 4 temperaments?
• 17:26
  Yeah, explain explain the. Temperaments more than 2000
• 17:29
  years ago there was a guy medical doctor in Greece called
• 17:33
  Hypocrites and he said they'll he discovered that.
• 17:36
  American is Hippocrates. Hippocrates.
• 17:39
  Hippocrates. I like hypocrites.
• 17:41
  Yeah, hypocrites is good. It's Hippocrates.
• 17:44
  Thanks for. Crying No I no I.
• 17:46
  You're probably. Correct.
• 17:47
  That's just how we say you. Know.
• 17:51
  Yeah. And he, he just called that
• 17:53
  there are four basic biological inclination as human beings.
• 17:58
  And he called them, we called them after that, the
• 18:01
  temperaments. And the first he said is it's
• 18:05
  Choleric person. Of course the name he gave to
• 18:07
  this, to this type is wrong because it has to do with the
• 18:11
  liquids in the body, because he thought that the temperaments
• 18:14
  are related to the liquids that you have in the body.
• 18:17
  But science has demonstrated that it's not related to the
• 18:20
  liquids, it's related to the genes.
• 18:22
  Genetical temperament is something genetical, it is not,
• 18:26
  has nothing to do with the liquids that you have in the
• 18:27
  body. So choleric come from cholera in
• 18:31
  Greek, you know, sanguine, it's sanguine is blood, you know.
• 18:37
  So all the phlegmatics, phlegma, so all these are, these are,
• 18:41
  these are liquids that you have in your body.
• 18:43
  So he made a mistake about the origin of the temperaments, but
• 18:46
  he didn't make any mistake about the temperament itself.
• 18:49
  This is what is interesting. It's not the name.
• 18:51
  What's interesting is the content of the temperaments.
• 18:54
  So he discovered that you have people that we call the choleric
• 18:57
  and we go on calling them cholerics.
• 18:59
  And I like it because we don't, we don't need to change words.
• 19:01
  People have been using those words for 2000 years.
• 19:03
  When will we change that? That's a choleric person.
• 19:06
  It doesn't mean that he, he's angry or he has a lot of wrath.
• 19:09
  No, he's choleric means he's action oriented.
• 19:12
  Biologically speaking. It's not because he's an
• 19:15
  American that he's action oriented.
• 19:18
  It's not because of the American dream.
• 19:19
  It's not about culture. He's action oriented because
• 19:21
  he's biologically A choleric. So choleric are people that are
• 19:25
  action oriented because they were born like this.
• 19:30
  They're born choleric. So they need to set goals.
• 19:33
  They need to achieve those goals and they will never stop until
• 19:35
  they have achieved the goals. So they are not interested in
• 19:38
  the processes, they are interested in the results and
• 19:41
  the material results. We call those people managers.
• 19:45
  So you have a lot of people that are born managers, you know no
• 19:48
  one is born a leader because I always will speak about after
• 19:51
  that, I think. I'm laughing because I don't
• 19:53
  resonate with. I've never really been like I'm
• 19:55
  a choleric, but the whole thing about we don't like processes.
• 19:58
  We like the end result. I identify with that very much.
• 20:03
  Yes. So you know the, you know those
• 20:05
  people, they have a, they have a talent that is their biology, a
• 20:10
  lot of energy. They are very active.
• 20:13
  They know how to set goals and achieve those goals.
• 20:15
  And we like those people, especially in America, and we
• 20:17
  give them big salary because they know how to get things
• 20:21
  done. You know, even if they trample
• 20:24
  over people doing it. That's the thing.
• 20:26
  So we don't care about the people, we care about the
• 20:28
  results. But we do care about the people,
• 20:30
  but only with the results, right?
• 20:31
  I mean the. People are not so important.
• 20:34
  But for the cleric person, what's important is the
• 20:36
  biological it's the it's the it's the result, the material
• 20:39
  one. So this is first reaction.
• 20:42
  If you're a choleric, you shouldn't be surprised that your
• 20:45
  first reaction is it's not people.
• 20:48
  Your first reaction is going to be material results.
• 20:51
  So your second reaction now is going to be what do I do with
• 20:55
  that? Your second reaction is
• 20:56
  spiritual. It has to do with the character,
• 20:59
  and it has to be a reaction of humility.
• 21:01
  So you are you are challenged by the virtue of humility, which is
• 21:05
  the virtue of service to the others.
• 21:07
  Because when you're a choleric and you see people in front of
• 21:11
  you, you don't see human beings. Your first reaction is these are
• 21:16
  human resources. You get it.
• 21:19
  So you are a human resource because he has in, he has in
• 21:22
  mind a result. How do you achieve results?
• 21:25
  You achieve results with money, with missionaries and with
• 21:29
  people. So people are for him or for
• 21:32
  her. If she is a choleric, they are
• 21:36
  instruments. What are you, Alex?
• 21:38
  I am a melancholic. OK, we'll get.
• 21:40
  There, so we come after, we come to this after.
• 21:43
  So the choleric people, they are action oriented and we see
• 21:47
  immediately that if they want to be leaders, they have to be
• 21:52
  humble. They have to serve people
• 21:54
  instead of using people. They have to understand that
• 21:57
  people are more important than things, that the process of
• 22:01
  achieving results is important, that achieving mature results.
• 22:04
  You have to be sure that your people are going to grow, that
• 22:07
  your people are going to become leaders themselves, that your
• 22:11
  people, your employee, your children, your friends, in the
• 22:14
  process of achieving mature results are going to grow.
• 22:17
  If you're not growing in that process, what you do is evil.
• 22:22
  Wow. Say that again, but.
• 22:24
  If you're not growing in the process of achieving material
• 22:27
  results, what you do is evil. Even if the what about for
• 22:31
  someone 'cause there's these great movers and shakers.
• 22:34
  I mean, I think about Martin Luther King Junior as an
• 22:36
  example, right? And he has this past which is
• 22:38
  very checkered personally, but professionally, he did amazing
• 22:42
  things, right? He was this icon.
• 22:46
  What if your end goal is not material?
• 22:48
  In terms of I want to make money, your end goal is I want
• 22:51
  to change the world. But in the process, you're not
• 22:54
  treating the people right. Is it still an evil?
• 22:57
  It's an evil to not treat the people right, but.
• 22:59
  Yeah, it's evil because people are more important than things.
• 23:04
  And you cannot, or even a mission at the end of the day.
• 23:06
  It's how you treat the people. Absolutely.
• 23:09
  And because everything is for people, we are the Center for
• 23:11
  everything. It's a very important thing
• 23:14
  here. It's about we're teaching you at
• 23:15
  not a very important topic, which is the topic of what's the
• 23:19
  meaning of work. You Your work is not
• 23:23
  interesting. What is interesting is you as a
• 23:26
  worker, are you going doing that work.
• 23:30
  The subject of the work is much more important than the object
• 23:35
  of the work. You understand it.
• 23:37
  The Marxist, the materialist people say there is no subject,
• 23:41
  there is only an object. It's the work itself.
• 23:45
  Because the denies personality that denies subjectivity.
• 23:49
  In work, in a work, in work, what's important?
• 23:52
  It's it's you. Are you growing?
• 23:55
  Are you becoming a better person doing that work?
• 23:57
  What you're doing? We don't care.
• 23:58
  It's not so important. If it's a good thing, it's good.
• 24:02
  But the important thing is you. And we know this.
• 24:05
  I mean, what's important is not to do a thing, it's to do it
• 24:07
  with love. If you do the small thing with
• 24:10
  love, that small thing become a big stuff.
• 24:13
  You agree with me. So The thing is not about doing
• 24:16
  great things. The thing is about doing what
• 24:19
  you're supposed to do with big love and this great love and
• 24:22
  this, this is what transformed the whole world.
• 24:26
  It is the love you put in the things in the, the work that
• 24:29
  you're doing now. So nobody can say, well, my work
• 24:32
  has no meaning. And I because I tell those
• 24:34
  people what the work has, the meaning you put in it, whatever
• 24:37
  it is. So your heart, your mind, your
• 24:41
  love has to be inside those things.
• 24:42
  They're very small, but you are the essence of work.
• 24:46
  So This is why choleric people should understand that people
• 24:50
  are more important than things we have to achieve results, but
• 24:54
  we have to help people grow, achieving those results, because
• 24:58
  people are more important than things, because people are the
• 25:00
  an end in itself. You know, I know a lot of, I
• 25:04
  know a lot of magnanimous people who like to set high goals.
• 25:08
  But they set high goals in order to be sure that their people,
• 25:13
  their employees, their children, their friends are going to work
• 25:17
  hard and they're going to develop creativity, freedom,
• 25:20
  responsibility, virtue, magnanimity.
• 25:23
  You know, so when you are like this, then you understand that
• 25:27
  work is just an instrument, an instrument to help people grow.
• 25:32
  The primacy is a human being. So many cleric people have no
• 25:36
  character, they have no humility, so they achieve
• 25:39
  results. We look at the the team members,
• 25:42
  they are almost dead physically, spiritually, psychiatrically,
• 25:48
  sometimes psychologically. Well, the worst is spiritually
• 25:51
  when you corrupt people in in in doing certain things that are
• 25:55
  wrong but you achieve results. What do you do when you're
• 25:59
  training? You train a lot of people and
• 26:00
  you're working with leaders, business leaders maybe, And you
• 26:03
  see this is a raging choleric, but they don't.
• 26:07
  You know how. How do you help them?
• 26:10
  But how do you help them do that where they walk them off of the
• 26:15
  hyper ledge of achieve, achieve, achieve down to deal with
• 26:19
  people? The the thing, fundamentally.
• 26:22
  People. Well, The thing is that
• 26:24
  fundamentally those people are never heard about the things
• 26:27
  we're speaking about now. Never.
• 26:29
  The big problem of humanity today is that people have never
• 26:32
  heard about those things. Very few people hear about those
• 26:35
  things. They are just imbued with that
• 26:37
  culture and that thing in terms of management getting things
• 26:40
  done success. And I tell you what's what does
• 26:45
  this word means All the great people haven't have been killed
• 26:51
  be hated. Joan of Arc was be hated.
• 26:55
  Martin Luther King was killed. Thomas Moore was Joan of Arc was
• 27:01
  was was not. Being was burning the stake,
• 27:05
  Mara Thomas Moore was be hated. All the presidents except the
• 27:09
  one live right now and the one running for the office and a
• 27:12
  couple others, but the rest are dead.
• 27:13
  I mean, we all die is your point.
• 27:15
  So we all die. No, my point is that we all die.
• 27:17
  My point is that can we say that Thomas Moore achieved success?
• 27:21
  I see. Can we say that Joan of Arc
• 27:24
  achieved success? She was burned as a stake at 19
• 27:26
  years old. You could say this is not
• 27:28
  successful. Joaum Lejeune, who spoke about
• 27:33
  one hour ago, did you achieve success?
• 27:36
  He was crucified by the media, You know, is this success?
• 27:41
  Success is not a word. And I speak to young people, I
• 27:43
  tell them, forget about success. You shouldn't look for success.
• 27:46
  It's a very subjective thing. And first of all, there are many
• 27:50
  things in life that you have, you have no control upon.
• 27:52
  You don't know you have no control, those things.
• 27:55
  So success has a lot to do, not only with your Internet, your
• 27:58
  capacities, but also a lot what what's happening in the world,
• 28:02
  the ideology around you, You know, are you capable of going
• 28:07
  against political or or cultural correctness?
• 28:12
  You know, for certain people, no success means I have to agree
• 28:14
  with those things. So you destroy yourself, you
• 28:17
  destroy your conscience, you behave badly because you want to
• 28:21
  achieve success. The real success is that is a
• 28:25
  success for someone that can, to the very last moment of his, of
• 28:29
  his, the days on earth, be faithful to his conscience.
• 28:34
  That's his success. Joan of Arc was faithful.
• 28:36
  Thomas Moore was faithful. Jehom was faithful and didn't
• 28:42
  surrender. Conscience was for them the most
• 28:46
  important thing. In this sense, I say they
• 28:49
  achieved success because they had a successful life.
• 28:52
  Do you remember what this great guy, Viktor Frankel, who wrote
• 28:58
  that book? Man Man's search for meaning.
• 29:01
  He wrote about. He said normal people don't want
• 29:04
  success, they want fullness of life.
• 29:08
  You know plenitude of life. And you achieve this when you're
• 29:12
  faithful to your conscience. Even if you're in a jail, you're
• 29:16
  in a jail because you did your job.
• 29:18
  You know you'll be hated because you did your job, because you'll
• 29:21
  be faithful to your conscience. You're burned at the state
• 29:24
  because you've been faithful. And this is what we call
• 29:26
  plenitude of life. And they have to tell the youth
• 29:29
  this. Forget about success.
• 29:32
  Remember one thing, the only important thing for you.
• 29:35
  It's fullness of life. And you achieve this when you
• 29:39
  develop character, when you're faithful to your conscience till
• 29:44
  the very last day of your life. That's leadership.
• 29:48
  Leadership is not about being successful.
• 29:51
  Leadership is not about being the number one leadership.
• 29:55
  It's about becoming an excellent person.
• 29:57
  It's about personal growth even if you have to die for that.
• 30:02
  And in the world in which we Live Today, it can be sure that
• 30:07
  a new ideology. They don't like people that are
• 30:09
  leaders, they don't like people with character.
• 30:13
  They love just zombies. You know it wasn't they want you
• 30:18
  to be a consumer. They want you to be an animal.
• 30:21
  They don't want you to have a a big heart and to be magnanimous.
• 30:26
  They would they they would go for you.
• 30:28
  You know, every time there is a revolution, the first thing we
• 30:30
  do, we kill those people. I know I studied the French
• 30:34
  Revolution, the French guy. I know I studied the Bolshevik
• 30:37
  Revolution because I'm also Russian.
• 30:39
  I know Bolshevism. I know the French Revolution.
• 30:42
  The first people who destroy are the magnanimous ones, which are
• 30:45
  the dreamers. Those who are Dreamers and doers
• 30:48
  at the same time hurry the leaders.
• 30:51
  Dreamers and doers, meaning they are, I don't know, maybe
• 30:56
  empathetic visionaries. They it's that they care for
• 30:59
  people and that's why they're doing.
• 31:01
  But the people are first. Yeah, dreamers are well, this is
• 31:05
  the, this is the this is the virtue of magnanimity.
• 31:07
  It is the virtue of people that are dreamers.
• 31:10
  They have a big dream about themselves.
• 31:12
  They want to be great people and they want other people to become
• 31:14
  great people. And they are doers.
• 31:16
  I mean that They transform that dream into a mission.
• 31:20
  They are not dreaming for dreaming, you know, This is
• 31:22
  pusal animity. This is small people.
• 31:25
  These are voluptuous people. I dream for dreaming because I
• 31:28
  enjoy the dream. You know, the magnanimous people
• 31:30
  are people who dream in order to act, in order to do, in order
• 31:34
  to, in order to implement the dream.
• 31:37
  They are very dangerous people, so.
• 31:38
  It's it's, it's like rightly ordered acting.
• 31:42
  It's not acting because of the satisfaction of the action of
• 31:45
  success. It's ordered towards the good of
• 31:48
  others and the. Service, Absolutely.
• 31:50
  So we see a lot. That's what we're aiming for.
• 31:53
  That's what we want. People have to be have to.
• 31:55
  That's what they need. To do yeah.
• 31:57
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• 32:51
  So call Eric. What about?
• 32:52
  That. So then we have.
• 32:54
  After that, we have what we call the the melancholic people.
• 32:57
  That's you. That's for instance, me.
• 32:59
  I'm a melancholic Choleric. Normally people have a brand.
• 33:02
  They are brands. They have mixed temperament.
• 33:06
  So I am a Choleric. I'm a melancholic choleric.
• 33:09
  What? What is that?
• 33:10
  These are not people directed to his action.
• 33:13
  They are directors who are ideas.
• 33:16
  They are more contemplative, biologically speaking, more
• 33:19
  contemplative. More ideas.
• 33:21
  Dream, beauty, goodness, truth. The you have a lot of, they are
• 33:28
  very creative people and the musicians, the writers, the
• 33:32
  philosophers parts, all those people fundamentally are very
• 33:37
  creative. And they are because they are
• 33:39
  melancholics, melancholy. It is something that it's a bit
• 33:43
  of self absorption, introspection, but positive self
• 33:47
  absorption because you're absorbed by your sentiments, by
• 33:49
  your feelings, by your ideas, and this is what produced in the
• 33:52
  end of the day creativity. So this minimum of self
• 33:55
  absorption is good. It's not egotism, it's it's just
• 33:58
  a biological inclination. So the melancholic people, they
• 34:03
  have a big power. It's the power of creativity.
• 34:07
  You know, they are those people who destroy the status quo in a
• 34:09
  society. They are the choleric, they
• 34:11
  destroyed. They don't.
• 34:12
  They destroyed because they have both that I they've taken the
• 34:15
  idea from the from the melancholic people.
• 34:17
  So are you very dangerous if you're melancholic?
• 34:19
  Choleric. Yeah, you're the dangerous.
• 34:22
  You're dangerous people because because you produce ideas that
• 34:26
  cleric will buy and they will use it.
• 34:28
  But you're dangerous in a positive way if you're a good
• 34:31
  man. And I try to be a good man.
• 34:33
  So I try to. I try to have good ideas.
• 34:36
  And those ideas I ioffer them to my friends that are clerics, you
• 34:41
  know, to help them move forward with this.
• 34:43
  Because I know I have difficulty to move with ideas.
• 34:46
  I have no problem with contemplating the ideas.
• 34:48
  I have no problem with the writing books.
• 34:50
  I have no problem with speaking, but I may have difficulties but.
• 34:54
  If you're melancholic, choleric. That helps.
• 34:57
  It helps a little bit. It helps, but it depends on how
• 34:59
  much. Per the percent percentage,
• 35:01
  maybe I am 6070% melancholic and 30% of choleric.
• 35:06
  My cholericism helps me do the thing.
• 35:09
  But you have a lot of people. They don't have cholerism.
• 35:11
  They just 100% melancholic. And then they have to.
• 35:16
  They have. They have no foundation in their
• 35:17
  biology for action. So what's the for the choleric?
• 35:21
  The. It's humility.
• 35:22
  It's humility They need to grow in humility to see the person,
• 35:25
  to put the person for service of the person, not just the the
• 35:28
  goal or the object. What about for the melancholic?
• 35:31
  What is the virtue to work on? Action, if that is audacity,
• 35:35
  boldness, boldness. They're afraid of action because
• 35:38
  the idea is perfect in my heart and in my mind.
• 35:41
  You know what I mean? So.
• 35:42
  And I know that the implementation of the idea, it
• 35:45
  would be bad because it's material, you know, and also
• 35:49
  because it's human beings. And human beings are limited.
• 35:52
  They're sinners. They're limited human beings.
• 35:55
  So the melancholic people are very afraid of the
• 35:57
  implementation of the idea. That's why they are
• 36:02
  biologically, they are biologically cowards.
• 36:06
  They need the virtue of audacity, of boldness in order
• 36:10
  to. Decisiveness.
• 36:11
  Yeah, decisiveness in order to do the job.
• 36:15
  So that's that challenge. And I've known a lot of people
• 36:18
  like this who were melancholic that I've been developing the
• 36:22
  virtue of, well, just think about Martin Luther King.
• 36:25
  In the end of the day, he was a very melancholic person.
• 36:28
  He was a writer. He was, he was a poet.
• 36:30
  I have a dream. He was.
• 36:32
  He was not born for action. Wow, you think so?
• 36:36
  Yeah, this guy was not born for. Action at all?
• 36:38
  Interesting. He brought people that were very
• 36:40
  good in action, very caloric people, and he learned from them
• 36:44
  action. But he was not more for action.
• 36:47
  He became a manufacturer. But you look at his face, you
• 36:49
  see he has a face of very melancholic person.
• 36:51
  Look at his eyes. He's not.
• 36:54
  He's not hotel. You could tell someone their
• 36:56
  temperament from the eyes very often.
• 36:57
  What am I? What do you think?
• 36:59
  Well, I will tell you after we just begin with no, but the
• 37:06
  truth that you cannot just say like this, looking at the eyes,
• 37:09
  but the when. When someone is 100% of
• 37:11
  melancholic, you see this in the eyes.
• 37:13
  When someone is 100% of choleric, you also see it.
• 37:17
  You know the hotel type Choleric.
• 37:19
  You see it in the face. You know when well, in the face
• 37:27
  you can see many things, but. Or maybe you can see because
• 37:32
  you're a melancholic. Yeah, the majority of people
• 37:34
  what happens if they have a brand.
• 37:35
  So you it's very hard to see on the face interesting.
• 37:38
  But speaking with people for a while you discover they are more
• 37:42
  you will see when we speak about the four temperaments who will
• 37:45
  understand better how what's that And then we have the the
• 37:50
  sanguine, the sanguine people. These are people that are, they
• 37:55
  are not action oriented. They are not people.
• 37:57
  They are not idea oriented. They are people oriented.
• 38:00
  These are the people that love people.
• 38:02
  They like to be with. People like to enjoy life.
• 38:06
  They like lajua Viva. They love lajua de Viva, joy of
• 38:11
  life. They carpe diem, you know now,
• 38:16
  not tomorrow. So tomorrow is tomorrow.
• 38:19
  We're dying. The more we die today we enjoy.
• 38:22
  Yeah, they love to be. They're touchy.
• 38:24
  They like people. They like humanity, you know,
• 38:26
  and they'll need people around. If not, they die.
• 38:29
  They are biologically like this. So we call this people, the
• 38:32
  Sandwinds, the sandwinds. A lot of people like this in
• 38:35
  Africa, A lot of people like this in Italy, a lot of I.
• 38:40
  Love Italy for that. I'm half Italian and it was my,
• 38:43
  when you describe it, I think my grandmother.
• 38:45
  Your grandmother was that? Oh, everywhere she went, she'd
• 38:47
  say to people, the stranger on the street.
• 38:50
  You and I are related. So you're a sanguine, You're
• 38:53
  from Italy, a sanguine then? You think I am?
• 38:56
  Maybe or maybe 50%? I, I, I, I can.
• 38:59
  At the end, I'll tell you what I think I've been told I am and
• 39:01
  what we can. We can do the analysis.
• 39:03
  Call Eric Sanguine. You think?
• 39:05
  So I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I didn't study you, but I will
• 39:10
  have to study you a little bit. But the sanguine people, you
• 39:14
  know, they are very good in communication, but we don't know
• 39:17
  them. They know that they have a
• 39:18
  problem. The problem is that they live
• 39:21
  outside time. So everything is now.
• 39:24
  There is no future. So what?
• 39:26
  What they do, they begin a lot of things because they have fun.
• 39:30
  They like to begin because it's funny.
• 39:33
  But they don't finish the job. They don't finish the job
• 39:36
  because they don't like a routine, because now it's funny.
• 39:40
  But tomorrow we don't know. Tomorrow we don't do it because
• 39:43
  we do something else. You know they they are.
• 39:46
  They love to begin something because the beginning is fun.
• 39:48
  The worst is OK, I'll just say, we'll just interrupt and say I
• 39:52
  think I'm a I think and I've been told that I am a Sanguine
• 39:55
  melancholic, which is a terribly complicated person to be because
• 40:00
  you have these IDs, ideals and ideas and creativity, but you
• 40:04
  like the rather V and the people, so you just it's really
• 40:07
  hard to get stuff done. It's not possible.
• 40:09
  You can abuse Sanguine Melancholic.
• 40:11
  You can't, OK? Because it's the opposite
• 40:13
  temperament, but that's. Why I you do think?
• 40:16
  You know what's gonna happen. It's the following thing.
• 40:18
  Maybe you're a sanguine, which is you born a communicator.
• 40:22
  You like people. You love people, you enjoy
• 40:24
  people. This is your biology.
• 40:27
  But you have been developing a deep interior life.
• 40:31
  So you've been trying to become a contemplative person.
• 40:34
  You've been trying to give meaning to what you're doing.
• 40:37
  You've been trying to overcome your natural superficiality.
• 40:40
  You've been trying to finish the job.
• 40:43
  So we say that you you have been developing spiritually, you know
• 40:48
  the virtue which is the virtue of interiority.
• 40:52
  And then you become. You may have a temptation to
• 40:54
  think that I have become a melancholic, but you you're not.
• 40:59
  Or you're a melancholic who's trying to be like a sanguine.
• 41:03
  I know a lot of melancholic people that are very good in
• 41:05
  communications, but their communication has nothing to do
• 41:08
  with that biology. It's purely.
• 41:10
  They had to work hard. On it.
• 41:11
  They work on it and they are good in communication because
• 41:14
  there's a lot of people. And this love is not biological,
• 41:20
  you understand. It's spiritual.
• 41:22
  And so a lot of people come to me and say Alex, I think I have
• 41:24
  the four temperaments. And I tell them, look, you
• 41:26
  can't, because you cannot be phlegmatic, not a choleric, and
• 41:31
  you cannot be a sanguine and a melancholic.
• 41:34
  These are exactly that. These are oppositions.
• 41:36
  So you help people identify what is the easiest thing for you to
• 41:40
  be naturally, Without the formation, without the practice,
• 41:43
  without the interior life. That natural thing.
• 41:46
  Your easiest thing to be naturally you would call the
• 41:49
  temperament, and then the work you've done to build the
• 41:52
  interior life, to build the habits of virtue that is, you
• 41:56
  know, now maybe like nature to you to some degree, right?
• 42:00
  But it is work you're still doing.
• 42:02
  It's your work, and in the end of the day, you are much more
• 42:05
  your character than your temperament because your
• 42:07
  temperament, it's your parents that lives in you and your
• 42:11
  character. It's freedom.
• 42:14
  You have been developing it so we can say you are more your
• 42:18
  your character than your temperament.
• 42:19
  So someone who's very developed in their character, it might be
• 42:23
  hard to find their temperament because they're so developed.
• 42:26
  Yeah, although you have some people, even if they are Saints,
• 42:31
  you you see their temperaments. It shines through.
• 42:33
  You did a lot of Saints. We know exactly what their
• 42:35
  temperaments are. Interesting.
• 42:37
  Even if they were Saints, so they have a lot of character,
• 42:40
  they could overcome a lot of things and but still we'll see.
• 42:45
  They are cholerics or they are phlegmatics.
• 42:47
  I've known Saints. I've lived with Saints.
• 42:50
  You have, yeah. Who I've known very well Blessed
• 42:54
  Alvaro del Portillo. Don Alvaro.
• 42:57
  Don Alvaro, who was the first? It was the second he he was the
• 43:04
  1st president of Opus Dei, just after the founder San Jose
• 43:08
  Maria, who was a choleric. Did you know him?
• 43:11
  I didn't know Jose Maria who was a choleric, but he was a
• 43:15
  choleric 100%. And who has done all the and
• 43:17
  last? Year was his successor, and he
• 43:20
  was a phlegmatic 100%. He had problems, he had
• 43:23
  difficulties to make decisions, and he did them.
• 43:26
  He made decisions, but it was hard for him to do it.
• 43:28
  He was delaying stuff, but as soon as he saw the light, he was
• 43:32
  a mover and shaker. So he had been developing the
• 43:34
  virtue of audacity, the virtue of magnanimity.
• 43:38
  He's a, he was a man of character, but he was a he was a
• 43:42
  phlegmatic. And you could see on his face he
• 43:44
  was a phlegmatic. He was an engineer.
• 43:46
  Many engineers are phlegmatics. Esquerwa was a lawyer.
• 43:50
  Many lawyers are coloring people, you know.
• 43:52
  So there is no surprise here. A lot of Saints, you know, have
• 43:56
  been, you see their temperaments in action.
• 44:00
  Thomas Moore was a sanguine. Yeah.
• 44:04
  Explain phlegmatic. That's the last.
• 44:06
  One we have. So just before speaking about
• 44:09
  thematic, we need to see what we need to identify the challenging
• 44:13
  virtue for Sandwich. And the challenging virtue for
• 44:16
  Sandwich is going to be endurance, perseverance.
• 44:20
  Finish the job. OK, if you finish the job, you
• 44:24
  will be a great, a great leader. You as a Sunwich, if you finish
• 44:27
  the job, if you're persistent, if you're Endurant, if you're
• 44:31
  faithful, then you become a extraordinary human being, a
• 44:34
  magnificent person, a great leader.
• 44:37
  So now we have the phlegmatic people, phlegmatic people, very
• 44:40
  rational, depassionate science. What's their challenging virtue?
• 44:46
  It's magnanimity because they don't like dreams, because it's
• 44:50
  not scientific. A dream is very, is
• 44:53
  unscientific. So those, those phlegmatic are
• 44:58
  not born for being, for for for dreamers to become dreamers.
• 45:03
  They're born for reflection, reflection, depassionate
• 45:07
  reflection, science, etcetera. So these people, they're they're
• 45:13
  really the for them, the challenging virtue is really
• 45:15
  going to be magnanimity, which they have to learn to dream, you
• 45:19
  know, the the, the, the, what's my temperament?
• 45:29
  Melancholic people. I'm sorry, the melancholic
• 45:33
  people. Sometimes I have just things
• 45:35
  were just gone out so. I'm pregnant.
• 45:38
  That's my excuse why it happens to me.
• 45:41
  Yeah, with the melancholic people, and they have difficulty
• 45:45
  to implement the dream, but they have no difficulty to dream the
• 45:49
  melanchola, the phlegmatic people, They have a problem with
• 45:52
  dreaming itself. They don't dream.
• 45:55
  Their problem is not just implementing the dream, Their
• 45:57
  problem is the dream itself. Because they like the status
• 46:00
  quo, they like, they look like functionaries.
• 46:04
  But I gave you an example of a great guy, Jerome Lejean, who
• 46:07
  was a phlegmatic and become a man with a beautiful mission,
• 46:13
  you know, to to spread the truth, the scientific truth
• 46:16
  about the commencement of human life, the beginning of human
• 46:19
  life. And he had a mission in life.
• 46:21
  He was a very magnanimous person.
• 46:23
  And Jerome Lejean as well as Alvaro del Portillo, who was
• 46:26
  blessed also and Jerome also, I guess he will be blessed very
• 46:29
  soon. He is already on the past
• 46:32
  towards canonization. Those two guys were phlegmatic,
• 46:36
  very strong phlegmatics. And those two guys had an
• 46:39
  extraordinary character and they were very magnanimous.
• 46:42
  They became dreamers, but they became dreamers.
• 46:44
  They became dreamers. They were not born for dream,
• 46:47
  you know. They were not born to dream.
• 46:49
  They became dreamers. They developed the virtue of
• 46:52
  magnanimity and they becoming, they became extraordinary human
• 46:56
  beings. They became excellent people,
• 46:58
  you know. So you see, we have the four
• 47:01
  temperaments, and each one of us is to understand what is the
• 47:05
  virtue that is challenging for him according to the
• 47:07
  temperaments. And he is.
• 47:09
  And then he has to develop that virtue.
• 47:11
  That is going to be a challenging virtue for him.
• 47:13
  And this is the way for him to become an excellent person and a
• 47:16
  great leader. And when you study leadership,
• 47:18
  you see all those four temperaments are represented.
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• 48:03
  So I think immediately of the person people and maybe this
• 48:09
  also my experience to some degree but maybe it's due to
• 48:12
  their upbringing or experiences that they had early in life that
• 48:16
  were very formative. Their temperament is not so
• 48:20
  obvious perhaps. So someone's listening right now
• 48:23
  maybe people listening are like yes I totally are identify with
• 48:26
  I identified with all of them. You know someone might think or
• 48:29
  maybe I'm definitely a saying runner someone's listening like
• 48:31
  I'll call her, they call you know Alex Zander called me on
• 48:34
  that one. But maybe there's someone who's
• 48:36
  listening who's like, I don't know.
• 48:38
  What would you say I do? You run run into the booze
• 48:40
  people? And if So, what do you say to
• 48:42
  them? Well, do you have certain people
• 48:44
  because they are as you as I've said, they they'd be practicing
• 48:49
  virtues. So they don't understand who
• 48:53
  they are biologically because they have the virtues and then
• 48:58
  they can they they don't know what I'm doing now this is to do
• 49:00
  with my biology or this is something I have acquired with
• 49:04
  time by developing virtue. So you have to help those people
• 49:07
  understand who they were when they were very young.
• 49:09
  Because when you're very young you don't have character.
• 49:12
  You have only, you're biological individual.
• 49:16
  Of course you have a spirit, but you you're not working very much
• 49:19
  on the spirit. It's there.
• 49:20
  You have a dignity of a human being 100%, but you still don't
• 49:24
  have virtues. You are, you are your you're
• 49:27
  fundamentally your biology when you're very young.
• 49:29
  So I I tell people who remember the way you were when you were
• 49:32
  young. Ask your parents.
• 49:34
  Ask your parents. Like 543?
• 49:37
  Even before. I mean, and why is it so
• 49:39
  important to understand how you were when you were young?
• 49:43
  Because you understand what's you make no mistakes about your
• 49:46
  temperament. And it's important to know one's
• 49:48
  temperament, even if you've developed other virtues and
• 49:51
  you're, you know, you're sort of navigating the life of seeking
• 49:54
  after excellence. Look, it's very important for
• 49:56
  many different reasons. A temperament.
• 49:58
  First, because you don't judge people.
• 50:01
  You will stop judging people and will stop judging yourself.
• 50:04
  Imagine you're a choleric and you're a friend of yours who is
• 50:07
  a phlegmatic, and he's coming to you for advice.
• 50:11
  The only experience you have, it's experience of choleraism,
• 50:13
  because you're a choleric, so you're going to think this this
• 50:16
  guy is lazy, you see, and this is a lie.
• 50:21
  This is a big mistake, because laziness is a vice and
• 50:25
  phlegmatism is a beautiful way of being.
• 50:28
  So you're going to kill the the boy before he comes to you for
• 50:31
  advice. You're going to tell, look, you
• 50:33
  have to be like me, and the boy is a phlegmatic.
• 50:36
  He cannot be like you, and he doesn't want to be like you, and
• 50:38
  he shouldn't be like you. You know what I mean?
• 50:41
  He's born for something else. He's born for reflection.
• 50:44
  He's born for for thinking. And you're born for action.
• 50:48
  So forget about that. The opposite, opposite thing is
• 50:51
  the opposite is also true. I mean, you're imagine you are,
• 50:54
  you're phlegmatic and a choleric comes to you and you know
• 50:57
  nothing about phlegmatism and cholerism.
• 50:59
  You know nothing about temperaments.
• 51:01
  What are you going to think you're going to think as a
• 51:03
  phlegmatic? That Lady, she is very proud.
• 51:09
  Yeah, because choleric people, they like to move, they like to
• 51:13
  achieve results. They like competition, they like
• 51:16
  to fight, They like to be #1 and they love to be the number one
• 51:19
  and they show off a little bit. But this is not spiritual, this
• 51:24
  is biological and this is a beautiful way of being.
• 51:27
  We need those people. But you know nothing about that
• 51:29
  temperament. So you need to judge that little
• 51:31
  girl who is a choleric and instead of thinking she's a
• 51:35
  choleric. So she's very different than me.
• 51:37
  So she's challenged by other virtues.
• 51:39
  You're going to say she has to change.
• 51:41
  She has to become like me, because I am.
• 51:45
  I am the rule and the model. Such a good advice, such good,
• 51:49
  and also it prevents people from misunderstanding themselves.
• 51:52
  Also yourself. And judging yourself.
• 51:54
  Absolutely. Immediately you're flegmatic and
• 51:56
  you don't understand what that and you compare yourself with
• 51:58
  coloring people. You will say I am a lazy person,
• 52:01
  he's a mover and shaker. I don't even know body when in
• 52:05
  fact you're just not born to be a mover or a shaker.
• 52:08
  You're born to be someone else and you just shouldn't compare
• 52:11
  yourself to that guy. You have all the talents and you
• 52:14
  have to do another kind of job. So this is the first thing that
• 52:18
  is you don't you stop judging people you know in melancholic
• 52:23
  people, you'd stop saying they are egotic because melancholic
• 52:27
  have self absorbed. You say he's just a melancholic
• 52:30
  and it's good to be melancholic, but it's bad.
• 52:32
  It's to be God, to be godism is bad.
• 52:34
  It's a vice. But melancholia is not a vice.
• 52:37
  When you see Usangwen you can have a temptation to think this
• 52:40
  is for superficiality, but superficiality is a vice.
• 52:43
  But sanguism is not a vice. It's a way of being in, living
• 52:46
  in the present, living in the present.
• 52:49
  This is a beautiful way of being.
• 52:50
  So we stop judging people, we stop judging ourselves.
• 52:55
  And that we we begin fundamentally to in understand
• 52:59
  what is the virtue that you need to challenge.
• 53:01
  So the most important thing in the temperaments it's not the
• 53:04
  communication, it's not not judging people, it's
• 53:06
  fundamentally knowing what's next for me?
• 53:09
  What should I do now? Theoretically, though, it could
• 53:12
  be possible. You know, at the beginning of
• 53:14
  this conversation we talked about the advice today about
• 53:17
  double down on your strengths, ignore your weaknesses, right?
• 53:20
  And you're saying, well, no, you have to.
• 53:22
  You have to examine your weaknesses and grow in your
• 53:23
  virtue there. To be the whole person, to be
• 53:25
  the excellent person. But I do think it also could be
• 53:28
  a mistake. Correct me if you think I'm
• 53:30
  wrong here. To not appreciate, understand
• 53:34
  and develop your strengths, your natural virtues, spending all of
• 53:39
  your time on your weaknesses. Because then you're at war with
• 53:43
  your own talent. You're not actually developing
• 53:46
  the talent. Yeah, you have to.
• 53:47
  Yeah, that's obvious. You have to spend more time
• 53:49
  developing your talents than controlling your defects.
• 53:53
  So it's both. OK, but The thing is that the
• 53:56
  temperament is a very specific talent.
• 54:00
  It's biological. So what we're saying we should
• 54:04
  spend more time developing our talents than controlling our
• 54:08
  weaknesses. We're not speaking about
• 54:10
  biology, we're speaking about spirituality.
• 54:14
  It's a very different thing. I repeat, you shouldn't spend
• 54:19
  time developing your cholerism. You were choleric.
• 54:23
  Forget about it. You know what I mean.
• 54:25
  You, you, you, you, you're a mover and shaker.
• 54:27
  You're born for that. It's not a problem.
• 54:28
  For you, it's not a problem. It's a good thing.
• 54:31
  But you, you just do the job because you do it.
• 54:34
  You don't have to think about multiplying your colorism.
• 54:37
  You are coloring what you think you need to think.
• 54:40
  It's been multiplying things that are spiritual gift that you
• 54:43
  can have. You know, when we speak about
• 54:46
  focusing on your talents, I think it's fundamentally
• 54:49
  focusing on multiplying the spiritual talents that you have.
• 54:53
  You see, but your temperament is here.
• 54:56
  You cannot improve your temperament.
• 54:58
  You cannot destroy it. It's what it is.
• 55:00
  And you'll be like this until the day you die.
• 55:02
  It's biology. But the key of what you're
• 55:04
  saying is you also should not be at war with your temperament, or
• 55:07
  judge or condemn your temperament, because that would
• 55:11
  then be a form of if it's a it can be a talent that then you
• 55:15
  are. No, you should never do such a
• 55:17
  thing because this would mean to fight against God.
• 55:20
  God gave you a temperament because he wants you to be that
• 55:22
  way. So you have to love yourself.
• 55:26
  You have to love yourself. And the 1st way of the 1st way
• 55:29
  of the 1st way of loving yourself is to love the
• 55:31
  temperament God has given to you, you know.
• 55:33
  So you have to love your temperament.
• 55:35
  But you have to understand that temperament means that I have to
• 55:39
  fight a certain other. There are certain things that we
• 55:41
  have to fight for because they are not going to be easy for me
• 55:44
  to develop, because certain virtues are complicated for
• 55:47
  certain type of temperaments and other virtues are easy to
• 55:50
  practice. That's it.
• 55:51
  That's what I wanted to say. It is that when you know your
• 55:55
  temperament well, you discover your strength, biological
• 55:59
  strength. You discover also certain
• 56:01
  weaknesses that you have and you have to overcome them.
• 56:04
  Because a choleric that forgets about his weaknesses, he becomes
• 56:08
  a dictator and you can tell him, look, multiply your strengths.
• 56:11
  Multiply your strengths. I'm a mover and shaker.
• 56:14
  Results, results, results. His life's gonna be this.
• 56:17
  I have to multiply my strength and the people around are dead.
• 56:21
  So this is no good. This guy should understand.
• 56:23
  What does it mean to multiply my strength.
• 56:26
  You know, your choleraism is not something you need to multiply.
• 56:30
  It's something you need to use one.
• 56:32
  You need to multiply. What you need to multiply is all
• 56:34
  the gifts that you have. But your colorism is there.
• 56:37
  Don't multiply it. You know what I mean?
• 56:39
  If you're a melancholic, what do we want to multiply?
• 56:42
  You're just you're born for thinking, for ideas, for dreams.
• 56:45
  Don't multiply this too much, because your problem is not
• 56:48
  about multiplying this. Your problem is, what do you do
• 56:50
  with that? Do you do the job or do you go?
• 56:54
  On. Thinking and thinking and
• 56:56
  thinking. You know, if you say to the
• 56:58
  melancholic people you have to do you have to dream more, dream
• 57:01
  more. You just kill that person.
• 57:03
  His problem is not about dreaming more.
• 57:05
  His problem is about implementing the dream.
• 57:07
  And this is hard for him. You get it.
• 57:10
  So we have to. Be yeah, that's where you got
• 57:11
  the the whole thing of being torment.
• 57:13
  I know I have the melancholic somewhere in me.
• 57:15
  The tormented by dreams thing, where it's just like you're like
• 57:19
  under a a mountain of dreams, of visions, of ideas, of hopes and
• 57:25
  directions, and there's no action connected to it and it's
• 57:29
  suffocating. Yeah, suffocates.
• 57:30
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's awful.
• 57:33
  That's why a lot of these creative types they.
• 57:35
  You know, Dostoevsky wrote a lot about that.
• 57:37
  Yes, he did. Yeah.
• 57:38
  Because he understood when he was young that he was, he was
• 57:41
  living on a completely interior life that has no, no, no reality
• 57:46
  outside and he he understand he was becoming mad.
• 57:49
  Yeah. And what saved him was action,
• 57:52
  and he began to move. Sweet action.
• 57:54
  Action. He began to move.
• 57:56
  He began to do things. He began to write books.
• 57:58
  He was sent to Siberia. Was it hard for him to write
• 58:01
  books, do you think? I think it was not hard for him
• 58:04
  to write because he's a melancholic, but but what what
• 58:07
  he did fundamentally he was not just to write books.
• 58:10
  I mean he began to move and he moved.
• 58:13
  He moved so much but. Don't you think some
• 58:15
  melancholics? I don't know if you relate to
• 58:17
  this. It can be hard to write because
• 58:19
  every word is imperfect. They know because melancholic
• 58:23
  people, They know how to look perfect.
• 58:25
  They know how to produce a perfect word.
• 58:27
  Well, if they they try hard enough, you know, but it can be
• 58:30
  a painful process. It's a painful process.
• 58:32
  Or is that the phlegmatic? And would that would that be the
• 58:34
  tendency of the phlegmatic to have trouble?
• 58:37
  Yeah, the phlegmatic, it's a bit different.
• 58:39
  I mean the the melancholic people, what they look for, it's
• 58:41
  certainty. They are afraid of not knowing.
• 58:45
  Now, if I don't know, I don't do, because I'm afraid of not
• 58:47
  knowing. The phlegmatic people, they are
• 58:49
  rational, so the problem for them is mistakes.
• 58:54
  I don't want to come to make mistakes, so I do nothing until
• 58:58
  I'm not true 100% mathematically sure that this is a good thing
• 59:01
  to do. The melancholic people.
• 59:03
  It's not about mistakes, it's about lack of certainty, you
• 59:07
  know, they have their imagination.
• 59:10
  Their fantasy is the imaginal was the worst.
• 59:13
  You know, the thing that the melancholic people, I think many
• 59:16
  people have a difficulty to move because they have a difficulty
• 59:20
  because if they they're not sure, they they they, they, they
• 59:23
  don't want to make mistakes. So what would be the temperament
• 59:27
  that has so many ideas and visions and dreams, but really
• 59:31
  struggles to implement that is, that?
• 59:35
  Is the melancholy OK? But the Sanguine also has
• 59:38
  struggled to implement. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:42
  The finish. Exactly.
• 59:43
  The finish. I mean, you don't see the very
• 59:45
  often people confuse the Sanguine with the Choleric
• 59:48
  because they are both directed to his action.
• 59:50
  But the motivation of both is very different.
• 59:53
  I mean, the motivation of the of the sanguine, it's the process
• 59:58
  he's interested in the process we're going to be with people.
• 1:00:01
  Teamwork, fun. He doesn't care for the results,
• 1:00:04
  the motivation of the Choleric. It's not the process, it's not
• 1:00:08
  people, it's not teamwork, It's what are we going to get from
• 1:00:11
  that, you see, So they are moved towards action, both, but not
• 1:00:14
  for the same reason and you have to know that.
• 1:00:17
  So how does one discover what their temperament is?
• 1:00:21
  Well, when you live with people that are specialists, who knows
• 1:00:25
  very well the temperaments, they can help you discover your
• 1:00:28
  temperament. When you live with people in
• 1:00:31
  your own house, very quickly you would discover the temperaments
• 1:00:35
  of people so. Close proximity to other people
• 1:00:38
  in the day-to-day in the mundane and and and some I've heard it
• 1:00:43
  said, how do you find out who you really are.
• 1:00:45
  Ask the person who really knows you first.
• 1:00:48
  You know the person closest to you like what what am I?
• 1:00:52
  What do you think? And if they say, you know, you
• 1:00:54
  have an image of yourself and then they say, oh, you're, you
• 1:00:56
  know, I think you're wonderful, but you know, you you struggle
• 1:00:59
  with this or you seem to have a strong suit in this.
• 1:01:01
  I mean, do you think that's helpful to ask people close to
• 1:01:04
  you that you trust that love you?
• 1:01:05
  You know, not not people that want to harm you in any way,
• 1:01:08
  but. I think the temperaments you,
• 1:01:10
  you just notice it, the way people behave in your house.
• 1:01:14
  So you've known that for years, and you know exactly that they
• 1:01:18
  fit very well, this this temperament, that temperament.
• 1:01:22
  You also know a little bit about their struggle and the spiritual
• 1:01:25
  life. And you can you can compensate,
• 1:01:29
  you know with your spiritual life, certain defects of
• 1:01:32
  biology, but still people you see, people strive, people
• 1:01:35
  fight, you know, and then it's not so complicated in the end of
• 1:01:41
  the day. Well, you have certain people
• 1:01:42
  that have some matures 5050. It's a bit more complicated to
• 1:01:45
  identify exactly the temperaments, but when people
• 1:01:49
  have something like 70% of 1 temperament and Basic
• 1:01:53
  temperament and predominant temperament, it's quite easy to
• 1:01:57
  to identify. So when someone knows their
• 1:01:59
  temperament, what is and and what would be the resource
• 1:02:02
  you've written on temperaments, What's the book that you have?
• 1:02:04
  I have a book called From Temperament to Character and
• 1:02:08
  also we have a beautiful with good logarithm test, temperament
• 1:02:12
  test. People can find it in English
• 1:02:15
  and Alex Harvard. Dot com We'll link it so you can
• 1:02:19
  actually take a test online, help you understand your
• 1:02:22
  temperament. The logarithm is good, is good.
• 1:02:25
  Of course. For 5% it doesn't work because
• 1:02:28
  the promise. Like me, I'm the 5%.
• 1:02:30
  The problem is that the question that we have there are not.
• 1:02:34
  This is not a personal test, it's a temperament test.
• 1:02:38
  Remember, personally it's temperament plus character.
• 1:02:42
  So personally test it's what do you do in this situation?
• 1:02:46
  Because what you do, what do you do in that situation depends on
• 1:02:49
  your temperament and character. So the question is not that, The
• 1:02:53
  question is what is your first reaction in that situation.
• 1:02:57
  And if you cannot know what's your first, your first reaction,
• 1:03:01
  you cannot answer. But if your first reaction to
• 1:03:03
  your point is so habituated by character, it's no longer your
• 1:03:07
  temperament with the first reaction.
• 1:03:09
  The first reaction is the first reaction will always be the
• 1:03:11
  biological. Really.
• 1:03:12
  Always. Even with the best of
• 1:03:14
  characters, Yes, and the best. Absolutely.
• 1:03:17
  And The thing is that the more you develop the character, the
• 1:03:19
  character, the quicker is your second answer, your second
• 1:03:23
  reaction. You know, if you develop
• 1:03:25
  character and develop character, your second reaction is going to
• 1:03:28
  be very quick. So Jerome Lejune back to your
• 1:03:31
  friend and the soon to be, we hope, Saint Jerome Lejeune.
• 1:03:36
  His first reaction to maybe hostility against him things
• 1:03:41
  like this would not be to speak the truth and fight or you know,
• 1:03:46
  be all warm and you know, let's figure this out.
• 1:03:48
  It would be OK. I know what this saying is
• 1:03:52
  incorrect. Doesn't compute.
• 1:03:53
  It's not correct. OK, you know, but then.
• 1:03:57
  That's it. He would say.
• 1:03:57
  Maybe I'm sorry for those guys. He don't.
• 1:03:59
  Understand. But he's saying his character
• 1:04:01
  would tell him, oh, you must end up and speak now.
• 1:04:04
  But he's still and that's why he's a St.
• 1:04:06
  And so I think that that's a little secret here is what's the
• 1:04:09
  what is the thing that is the right thing to do but perhaps
• 1:04:12
  the hard thing to do. And the opposite of that is your
• 1:04:15
  is is perhaps the temperament that you have.
• 1:04:17
  And then the thing to do is the is the path to sanctity.
• 1:04:21
  Yeah, the past to sanctity has to do with the development of
• 1:04:25
  character. And we spoke about a lot of
• 1:04:27
  people about that different temperament.
• 1:04:29
  And we see they've been fighting all their life against the,
• 1:04:33
  yeah, the weaknesses of their temperaments.
• 1:04:35
  Of course, they've been multiplying the strength, but
• 1:04:37
  they've been fighting, they've been trying to to overcome those
• 1:04:39
  difficulties of temperament and they did very well.
• 1:04:42
  That's why they're great people. You know, they wouldn't be St.
• 1:04:45
  because hollowness is, it's not just a supernatural activity.
• 1:04:50
  It has a lot to do with human nature, with the development of
• 1:04:53
  character, of natural virtues, of human virtues.
• 1:04:56
  Remember in theology we say that grace finds grounds in in
• 1:05:00
  nature. Where there is no nature, there
• 1:05:02
  is no grace. So if you are not generous, not
• 1:05:05
  magnanimous, not audacious, God can send you faith, hope, and
• 1:05:10
  charity. But it will not work.
• 1:05:13
  It will not work. I mean, piety doesn't resolve
• 1:05:16
  the problem of lack of virtue. Remember that lack of virtue is
• 1:05:20
  a big problem. People that are pious, that have
• 1:05:23
  a lack of virtue, they look very strange.
• 1:05:25
  So when you say that you're talking about, let's say, the
• 1:05:28
  church person who's praying all day, you know who's like in the
• 1:05:32
  church, he's singing worship music, you know, whatever.
• 1:05:35
  But they're not doing that daily grind of self-awareness against
• 1:05:40
  building the character, developing the virtue.
• 1:05:42
  And so maybe that's the I mean, this sounds harsh, but maybe
• 1:05:46
  that in the world's eyes, when they see this, they're like,
• 1:05:49
  well, I don't want that. This is what I mean they.
• 1:05:51
  Like they see this person. I don't get this person.
• 1:05:54
  Awkward. Yeah, they look awkward.
• 1:05:56
  Weird, as you say in English, they're weird.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah. People don't want to be like
• 1:06:00
  this because they see it's not. Human.
• 1:06:02
  But you know, I think a special danger is sometimes when we get
• 1:06:07
  a little weird in the face and we're sort of going the route of
• 1:06:11
  our temperament without self-awareness, without
• 1:06:13
  understanding how it's affecting other people, without developing
• 1:06:16
  the virtue of the character intentionally.
• 1:06:19
  And people say you're weird or we're unattractive.
• 1:06:21
  We say, well, that's just because they hate the faith.
• 1:06:24
  Have you seen this? Do you know what I'm talking
• 1:06:26
  about? I don't see exactly what you're
• 1:06:29
  speaking. About so meaning that the person
• 1:06:31
  that doesn't have the self-awareness or the person is
• 1:06:33
  sort of caught up in in a way self absorbed in the fate in
• 1:06:36
  their own experiences and that they blame other people's
• 1:06:40
  rejection of them on oh they reject the faith.
• 1:06:44
  OK, OK, got it. But I think the problem was
• 1:06:46
  those people, they didn't find Christ.
• 1:06:49
  If they are strange like this, they find something else.
• 1:06:52
  Because there is an incredible relation between nature and
• 1:06:57
  super nature. So if you are normal, you can
• 1:07:00
  find the normal Christ. If you're not normal, the Christ
• 1:07:03
  you will find will not be the normal one.
• 1:07:05
  And that's where we get cults. And that should be you become
• 1:07:08
  very strange guy. You know what I meant?
• 1:07:10
  I mean, Christ is very Christ is 100% human, He's 100% God, but
• 1:07:14
  he's also 100%. Human And what was Christ's
• 1:07:16
  temperament? Oh, Oh my Christ is such an
• 1:07:19
  incredible guy with his mother, Mary that they had, they were.
• 1:07:24
  They're so perfect that it's very hard to know what's that.
• 1:07:27
  Temperaments. But you think they had one?
• 1:07:29
  I think they it's hard to say, but when you look at Christ
• 1:07:32
  praying on Holy Thursday, you say this guy is a melancholic.
• 1:07:37
  When you see Christ driving out the business people from the
• 1:07:42
  temple, you said this guy is a choleric.
• 1:07:45
  When you see Christ with the sinners, drinking, eating,
• 1:07:49
  making jokes, you say, well this guy is a is a is a sanguine.
• 1:07:54
  And when you see Christ, when the the woman caught in adultery
• 1:07:58
  when they brought that woman to him and doesn't answer anything
• 1:08:01
  and he writes something on the floor, he said, well only a
• 1:08:04
  phlegmatic can do such a thing. I would have killed those guys
• 1:08:08
  before they come to me. He he was so quiet.
• 1:08:11
  It's he said, how do you keep your peace when you have so
• 1:08:14
  evil, so many evil people around?
• 1:08:16
  You have to say the word. And he didn't say anything.
• 1:08:19
  Just write something on the floor.
• 1:08:22
  So what's what's impressed in Jesus Christ is that it's very
• 1:08:25
  hard to know what's his temperament because of the
• 1:08:27
  perfect balance everywhere. Biologically, he was perfectly
• 1:08:31
  balanced. But he he was a perfect man.
• 1:08:35
  So he probably he had a he has a temperament, but this is a
• 1:08:39
  mystery and maybe it's better that we don't know that what was
• 1:08:42
  this temperament? Because somebody could say,
• 1:08:44
  well, I I am like Christ, you know, you know?
• 1:08:49
  Well, all right. Well, we have just a couple more
• 1:08:52
  minutes. But I don't know if at this
• 1:08:54
  point, you know what I am by now.
• 1:08:56
  We don't want to, I don't want to make it all about me.
• 1:08:58
  But any advice, any final words of advice?
• 1:09:01
  We could talk. There's so much more we could
• 1:09:03
  speak on you, and you've got such great books and work, but.
• 1:09:06
  Advice I would say to people, look, the world that's coming
• 1:09:11
  now is going to be, is going to be very bad.
• 1:09:14
  There are going to be a lot of frustrations.
• 1:09:16
  There will be a big struggle. There will be evil.
• 1:09:21
  Absolute evil is coming. I see it, I feel.
• 1:09:24
  It you mean geopolitically cultural?
• 1:09:27
  Not culturally, fundamentally, culturally, politically.
• 1:09:30
  You don't have to speak about Geo, maybe geopolitical so but I
• 1:09:33
  don't speak about that. I think the whole civilization
• 1:09:36
  have been building during during the last 40 years is collapsing.
• 1:09:41
  It's the collapse of the Enlightenment project.
• 1:09:45
  We're we're seeing the the culture of death.
• 1:09:48
  I mean communism was just one part of it but there is another
• 1:09:52
  part that we thought didn't exist but it exists very much.
• 1:09:55
  So the Enlightenment project is not finished.
• 1:09:57
  It's finishing now and it's going to collapse and it's going
• 1:10:01
  to be very heavy before people. And so my advice is this.
• 1:10:06
  It is that whatever the situation is, you have to be
• 1:10:10
  capable of understanding. These are opportunities of
• 1:10:13
  growth. The only thing is when things
• 1:10:17
  become radical, you have to make a radical choices and then there
• 1:10:20
  is no third choice, you become a pig or a St.
• 1:10:24
  This is what Viktor Frankel? Was.
• 1:10:27
  In Pig or A St. This is what Viktor Frankel said
• 1:10:30
  about Auschwitz when it was in Auschwitz, An artist, there was
• 1:10:33
  only two ways, the way of survival, which is to become a
• 1:10:37
  pig. You know, become a pig because
• 1:10:40
  you can and you can survive as a pig, but you can as a St. you
• 1:10:44
  will die, will killed because you have to speak the truth,
• 1:10:47
  because you'd be faithful to your conscience.
• 1:10:49
  So he said, if you if you made a decision inside yourself to be
• 1:10:54
  faithful to your conscience, you obviously will die.
• 1:10:57
  And these were the Saints in Auschwitz.
• 1:11:00
  And the pigs were those who think, who thought.
• 1:11:03
  For me, what's important is to survive.
• 1:11:06
  But in order to survive in a concession camp, you have to do
• 1:11:09
  certain things that transform you into a big you see what I
• 1:11:14
  meant? And this is going to happen now
• 1:11:16
  in the modern civilization, all of us, each one of us is going
• 1:11:19
  to be confronted with that reality.
• 1:11:22
  What is the decision I am taking now in the depth of my heart?
• 1:11:26
  Do I want to be faithful to my conscience and take the risk of
• 1:11:30
  dying? Or do I want to survive at any
• 1:11:33
  price and then become a pig? So this is something that people
• 1:11:38
  need to think about because there is no third way today.
• 1:11:42
  There is still a way in between, You know what I mean?
• 1:11:45
  But I think in the coming years there won't be, there won't be
• 1:11:47
  any way in between. You have to be radical.
• 1:11:52
  And this is a lot to do with temperament, with character.
• 1:11:55
  And this is a lot to do with what we're speaking about.
• 1:11:57
  Before you know the this faithfulness to your conscience,
• 1:12:03
  this understanding that success is not a word, The only
• 1:12:09
  important thing is fullness of life.
• 1:12:12
  And you, you achieve fullness of life not when you're big, but
• 1:12:16
  when you're a St. That's it.
• 1:12:19
  So simple, so true. It's not easy to do, but with
• 1:12:23
  Christ everything is possible. Beautiful.
• 1:12:27
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:12:28
  Thank you for coming onto the podcast that was so powerful.
• 1:12:33
  Where can people find your work? I know you mentioned earlier.
• 1:12:35
  But so you can find my work in alexharvard.com.
• 1:12:40
  You have all my books there. And that's Havard.
• 1:12:42
  HAVARD. That's right, HAVARD.
• 1:12:47
  Well, you can pronounce it the way you want.
• 1:12:49
  Harvard, not. Just don't say not.
• 1:12:51
  Harvard. This isn't.
• 1:12:52
  Forget it. I don't want to hear about any
• 1:12:55
  Harvard. It has to be Harvard or
• 1:12:57
  havar.com. And then you don't have only the
• 1:13:00
  books, you also have courses. Have courses.
• 1:13:04
  Amazing. Courses 7.
• 1:13:05
  Courses on the temperaments, on Character, on Magnanimity, on
• 1:13:09
  Humility. On education, Education of the
• 1:13:12
  heart. Education of the heart, So on
• 1:13:16
  the full cut in our virtues. We have courses on on
• 1:13:19
  everything. Fundamentally, those courses.
• 1:13:22
  It's more than one book. Seven books, 7 courses, short
• 1:13:26
  course is about one hour and a half.
• 1:13:27
  Two hours each. You can spend with me 15 hours.
• 1:13:30
  That's a lot. And and that's very cheap.
• 1:13:35
  Very cheap. Discount code.
• 1:13:38
  Yes, that can be that can really.
• 1:13:40
  Yeah, yeah. Just get in touch.
• 1:13:41
  We'll we'll we'll come up with what?
• 1:13:44
  Thank you so much, Alexander. Thank you.
• 1:13:46
  Thanks for coming to the show. Thank you.
• 1:13:48
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Delilah Rose
• 1:13:50
  Podcast. Make sure to check out Alexander
• 1:13:53
  Havard's work. It's fantastic stuff and I think
• 1:13:55
  it can really help all of us grow in virtue and excellence.
• 1:13:59
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