Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E251: Marriage, Sex, and Children: The Messy Truth w/Tim and Chrissy Horton | Lila Rose Show

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E251: Marriage, Sex, and Children: The Messy Truth w/Tim and Chrissy Horton | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  She came to me and asked when are we going to get married and
• 0:01
  I said, well I still have a few things I want to get done
• 0:03
  professionally first. And Chrissy came to me and she
• 0:05
  said, but why can't we do that together?
• 0:06
  We used to kind of proudly say, oh, we're cafeteria Catholics.
• 0:10
  We just pick and choose what we want to do.
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  Like there's this new push online, just all the health and
• 0:14
  all the the discipline and I'd love to see it, but then in the
• 0:16
  bedroom, throw it all out the window is what it seems like.
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  Seeing women really brush off men quickly, oh, this was a red
• 0:22
  flag. This was a red flag.
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  I said. I don't know if that was
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  necessarily a red flag or just he wasn't perfect.
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  That is something I do struggle with to this day.
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  I can't lie and say these other thoughts don't seep in.
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  There's times. So recently I just went to Las
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  Vegas to go see the backstreet. Voice they were self professed
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  cafeteria Catholics picking and choosing what they wanted to
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  believe while still showing up to church every week.
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  But marriage and the question of fertility raised doubts and
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  opened them up to discovering more about God's plan for their
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  lives. Welcome back to the Lila Roche
• 0:50
  show. Today I'm sitting down with my
• 0:51
  lovely guest Chrissy Horton. You'll remember her from her
• 0:54
  episode a few weeks back, but this time we're also joined by
• 0:57
  her husband Tim. Tim is going to share his
• 1:00
  perspective as a husband on questions of family size,
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  following God's plan, fertility, and Chrissy and Tim together
• 1:06
  will discuss their journey of getting closer to Jesus Christ
• 1:09
  and his teachings in their marriage as they are open to
• 1:12
  life. We discuss a lot of hot button
• 1:15
  topics which I think are incredibly important for today's
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  Christians and non Christians alike.
• 1:19
  If you enjoy these conversations and want to see more of them,
• 1:22
  please don't forget to subscribe.
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• 1:40
  Tim and Chrissy Horton, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:43
  Thank you for having us. It's.
• 1:44
  Great to see you again, Chrissy, and I'm so glad you're here,
• 1:46
  Tim, it's awesome to have you in studio.
• 1:48
  Thanks for coming in. Thanks, I'm glad to be here.
• 1:50
  It's great because we had a lot of people requesting to hear
• 1:53
  from you when we had a Christy and I had our conversation.
• 1:57
  And one of my favorite things to do on the show is to have
• 1:59
  married couples on because they think their perspective is so
• 2:02
  incredibly helpful to people and inspiring.
• 2:05
  So thanks for doing this. Sure.
• 2:07
  Thank you so much for having us. Christy is a content creator
• 2:10
  extraordinaire. Love what you're doing, Chrissy.
• 2:12
  So many women are being benefited by what you're doing.
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  Thank you. And men are being touched you.
• 2:18
  Tim, you are moonlighting on Chrissy's social media and now
• 2:22
  here on the podcast. Thank you for being willing to
• 2:24
  join. What is your professional
• 2:26
  background? Yeah, so I'm a software
• 2:27
  developer. I've been doing that for about
• 2:29
  20 years. And I ended up getting involved
• 2:32
  in startups and it was, you know, before Chris and I got
• 2:35
  married. I came to you one day, or you
• 2:37
  know, you brought up marriage and I said I absolutely want to
• 2:39
  marry you. But.
• 2:40
  We really should preference how young I was when I brought this
• 2:42
  up to him. He I think I was, we were, I was
• 2:44
  20. I was still in college.
• 2:45
  I was like, why aren't we getting married?
• 2:48
  No, not really. But yeah, we were young.
• 2:50
  We were very young and we were both in school.
• 2:52
  OK. I think that's.
• 2:53
  Very good. OK, so but you came to me and
• 2:57
  asked when are we going to get married?
• 2:59
  And I said, well, I still have a few things I want to get done
• 3:00
  professionally first. And Chrissy came to me and she
• 3:02
  said, but why can't we do that together?
• 3:06
  And that that really made me think.
• 3:08
  I thought, you know, that was beautiful moment when I'm like,
• 3:10
  Oh my gosh, yeah, we're going to be going on this journey
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  together and we're going to we're going to build so much
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  more than just, you know, whether it's a bank account,
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  we're going to build this beautiful family and we're going
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  to build this life together. And so that was a a big moment
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  and Chrissy pushed for me to actually start going to some
• 3:26
  local meet ups and things like that.
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  And so I went to this startup weekend.
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  We built a company in a weekend. Then we tried to turn that into
• 3:32
  a successful company. It didn't work out, but I end up
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  networking a bunch of people and then dove further into kind of
• 3:39
  just software in the San Diego startup scene, so.
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  And it sounds like you've been pretty successful.
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  You've had a few companies that have done well and you're semi
• 3:49
  retired now or? Well, yeah, we'll see.
• 3:51
  I'm going to take a little break as of now and support Chrissy
• 3:54
  and then, you know, work on homeschooling with kids.
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  But yeah, we have some flexibility as of now.
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  He's very good. He's very I have a start up.
• 4:04
  Can I hire you? He's.
• 4:05
  Very good. I think he's the coding master,
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  especially even with my business like can you do this?
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  And I'll just, you know, I'll pull, I don't know anything
• 4:13
  about coding and I'm like, oh, just make it look like this and
• 4:15
  do this and do that. And then he just, I think he's
• 4:18
  the master coder, but he made really smart decisions early on.
• 4:22
  You, you had some foresight on some ways to, you had some
• 4:26
  foresight into some of the companies that you founded and
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  started. And he would write the software
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  for this and and given him this ability to have very flex, the
• 4:36
  flexible schedule he has now. That's kind of the dream is to
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  be home with the kids more, too, right?
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  I want to see them more, not less.
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  So there were lots of sacrifices to get here, but that was always
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  the goal was for you to be able to be, to have your, to have
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  your time be more of your own. I think even that just comment
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  like you want to be home with the kids more.
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  And I know obviously, Christy, you and I, we want to be home
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  with the kids as much as we can and make our work accommodate
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  that, right? And I think there is a cultural
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  narrative. There's both like the girl boss
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  cultural narrative, which is like men and women are the same.
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  Women should just go like, and men should just go work, you
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  know, 10 hours and be insane and, you know, have they build
• 5:13
  these careers or whatever. And by 10 hours, I mean, like
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  they should work these like very intense work weeks in offices
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  away from their families, which again, I'm not saying some
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  people who do that it, there isn't a plan God has and
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  sometimes there's necessity. So I'm not trying to disparage
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  those sorts of careers or the importance of, you know, putting
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  in work and all of these things. Anyways, all that's to say, I
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  think the view though of men traditionally more is they're
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  outside of the home taking bringing home the bacon, the
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  woman is in the home. We've on the show done a number
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  of series of podcasts debunking a lot of those myths about this
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  idea of very differentiated roles to the degree that the
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  man's away and the woman is here and there's like, they're just
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  away from each other. Because I don't think that's
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  necessarily traditional anyways. But I love what you're saying
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  about you want to be with your kids.
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  You're obviously a man's man, but you want to be with your
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  children. And I do think there is this
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  tendency to minimize the importance of a father in the
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  home. Yeah, I, I work from home when I
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  these days and sometimes Christy will take the kids away for the
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  day and I end up calling them like, hey, when you guys coming
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  home and you know, I miss you guys, right?
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  Because I'm so used to being with my family, right?
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  And so, yeah, I love it that that's and that's kind of so
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  that was the goal. And so we're we're kind of
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  there. And we're well aware of the
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  tremendous blessing that is not everyone has that opportunity.
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  And so while that's the dream, I know that's not everyone's
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  privileged with that. So there's nothing wrong, like
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  you said, like a guy who a man who goes and works, you know,
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  long days to provide for his family so his wife can't stay
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  home. I think that's so beautiful.
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  And the children see that that sacrifice and there's lots of
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  different ways. But yeah, the fact that you have
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  the successful career with these flexible hours and in that those
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  in that flexibility you want to be with your family because I
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  think the key point here, Yeah, right.
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  You both have six kids. Chrissy was sharing about your
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  transformation as a couple. To be open to life, getting more
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  passionate about your faith. I think the man's perspective is
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  so incredibly powerful because a lot of people, a lot of men
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  today, I think, are told that they should not be open to life
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  or that even marriage isn't necessarily a good thing.
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  There's a lot of mixed messages about marriage, fertility,
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  children, everything for men. So have you always been strong
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  in your faith, Tim? What has been your faith
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  journey? And then we'll get into the
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  marriage, fertility, all of the other fun topics.
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  I was strong in my faith when I was younger.
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  I really, when I was very active in youth group.
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  My, my core group of friends, they were all very devout
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  Catholics. We had a band that was, you
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  know, we've, it was not a, like a Christian band or anything
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  like that. But you know, we all play by the
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  same rules. We, we listen to what we were
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  taught. Then after high school, that's
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  when I, you know, my friends change a little bit.
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  And it's not like my friends were bad people, but, you know,
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  they, we, I became more of a Sinner at that point.
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  Drinking became just the norm. And, and I justified it as this
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  is what college people do. And so I almost kind of invented
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  my own religion, like, well, it's OK because it, this is just
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  what people my age do. So I'm sure, you know, it'll be
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  fine. And, and that's kind of
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  something like I've realized through time that, you know,
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  when, when we bend the rules, we're, we're making our own
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  religion. And, and that's been what's
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  brought me so close to being open to life, You know, so much
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  more into being open to life is like I, I'm not in a position to
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  make these rules for myself. And if I truly believe this, the
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  faith, then I need to play by these rules.
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  And, and there's a, you know, they benefit me even if I don't
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  like it in a way, you know, or if it makes it difficult.
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  I've come to love all the rules, right?
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  And I think they're, they're great.
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  They're they're there for a reason.
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  But yeah, definitely in college, I, I, I strayed.
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  And even when Chris and I started dating, I mean, we, we
• 9:03
  were not, I wouldn't say we're good Catholics.
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  We, we probably should not have been receiving the Eucharist at
• 9:09
  all for a while. And and that's something we
• 9:11
  learned later that you. Know what do you what do you
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  mean? Just because the mortal sins,
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  you know, you look at the 10 commandments and you're like,
• 9:16
  well, we didn't commit adultery, but there's other layers to
• 9:20
  that, that commandment. And so we we should have gone to
• 9:24
  confession more. We should have been pure, I
• 9:28
  guess, or however you want to put it, you know.
• 9:30
  We we didn't wait for marriage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we didn't wait
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  for marriage. So we were in that we'd go out
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  partying and they. Drink too much and that kind of
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  stuff. And that was something more too.
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  I spoke on that on the last one. We, you couldn't, I think,
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  convince us at that time in our lives.
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  Maybe the premarital sex, we could probably be like, yeah, we
• 9:46
  shouldn't do that. But again, got very wrapped up
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  and what's deemed normal in our culture, especially for young
• 9:52
  people in their early 20s. So that and the whole the
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  Eucharist, I mean, I, that was something I learned more
• 9:59
  recently in my life, you know, because that's the thing you
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  look at the technology like why I didn't kill anyone and I
• 10:03
  didn't commit adultery. But when you look at the
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  commandment of committing adultery, it's not just, it's
• 10:08
  not just an affair, right? There's so there, premarital
• 10:10
  sex, all these other things and so.
• 10:13
  Yeah, we we learned. Yeah, we learned and then so,
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  but in terms, I mean, I think when it comes to the Eucharist,
• 10:18
  I I don't want to discourage people with that one because I
• 10:20
  remember looking at things so well.
• 10:22
  I can never receive the Eucharist 'cause I'm constantly,
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  you know, we're all sinners. And but there were times I
• 10:26
  think, and I don't know if I should have meant this on the
• 10:28
  podcast, but like we, I'd go out on like a Saturday night and I
• 10:32
  would drink and then I'd come and I'd go to church and not
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  like think anything of that. Even if I was like a little
• 10:37
  hungover or something. I mean, I was functioning.
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  It wasn't like I was coming and drunk, but.
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  Well, I think drinking to like feeling a little bit tipsy.
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  I don't know that that's mortal sin.
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  See, I don't know. I'm still learning.
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  That's why I don't want to take what we say you should.
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  Generally avoid it, but a little bit is not.
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  It's just like, yeah, having fun, but like beyond that, then
• 10:55
  you're, you're getting into serious.
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  Because we would still lead the choir.
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  Like, I mean, we obviously we're fine.
• 11:00
  Like we would, yeah, we would like, come in and, like, get our
• 11:02
  stuff done. So it wasn't bad.
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  But you know, the night before we weren't, you know?
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  So you knew each other at church, you were living your
• 11:10
  faith, you know you cared about it.
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  But then you go to college. Things have started a little
• 11:14
  more shaky. When did you and Chrissy's first
• 11:16
  start dating? I was earning my masters and you
• 11:19
  were working on your undergrad and, and I saw you on campus,
• 11:23
  right? And we we passed and then.
• 11:24
  So you saw her and you're like, she's cute and she looks
• 11:27
  familiar. Oh, OK.
• 11:29
  I know of her kind of from church.
• 11:31
  Yeah, exactly. And then we saw each other again
• 11:33
  at church, right? And then that's how you can ask
• 11:36
  me out. I did not ask you out.
• 11:38
  Get out of here. No, we we just set up some time.
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  So we went and grabbed lunch together after after class one
• 11:45
  day. See the problem with me is I
• 11:47
  tell the story in one sentence with not a whole lot of detail.
• 11:51
  And Chrissy likes to. Oh, I don't just like to tell
• 11:54
  the story. I have a whole series on my
• 11:56
  social media and it's a 20 part episode of our story.
• 11:59
  I love how Tim just boils it down to she asked me out I.
• 12:02
  Did not what? I thought that was a joke it she
• 12:04
  didn't. Really.
• 12:04
  Ask. It was a joke.
• 12:05
  Yeah. Wait, so how now?
• 12:07
  I gotta now I gotta ask. How did how did you ask her?
• 12:09
  How did you get connected for that first date?
• 12:11
  OK, OK, I'll tell this you better.
• 12:14
  OK. So he, we saw each other on
• 12:17
  campus and that's when he said something registered
• 12:19
  differently. He looked at me differently.
• 12:20
  But it was actually another year, I think before we saw each
• 12:23
  other again because I we went to the same school, but I went and
• 12:26
  lived on campus. And so I unfortunately stopped
• 12:28
  going to church. As we talked about this in the
• 12:30
  last podcast, where I just kind of had that very typical secular
• 12:33
  American experience in college. And at the time, I was in a
• 12:38
  previous relationship of someone of a different faith.
• 12:41
  And he went on a mission because he was the Church of Jesus
• 12:44
  Christ, the Latter Day Saints. So he left and I was very sad.
• 12:48
  And my mom was like, you need to find a good Catholic boy.
• 12:51
  Like I said, no, no, no, I'm I'm going to convert and be with be
• 12:55
  with this guy, the Mormons. Oh, yeah.
• 12:57
  And so she was really pushing for me to get back to church
• 13:02
  and. She's like, what about the
• 13:04
  Justin Timberlake of our parish? She always used to make jokes
• 13:07
  about that, though. She said no, one day you're
• 13:08
  going to marry that Tim Horton boy.
• 13:10
  I kid you not really. Yeah, she goes not you're young
• 13:12
  now, but one day she always would joke about that.
• 13:14
  Did your mother ever talk about Chrissy or she really know?
• 13:17
  My mom actually went to a different parish, so when I
• 13:20
  joined the youth choir at the parish that Chrissy's referring
• 13:22
  to, I I left the parish that my parents were going to.
• 13:26
  They just, they preferred their other church there and this one
• 13:29
  had more kids at and more youth. That's where I met my band.
• 13:33
  All that kind of stuff. So.
• 13:34
  So she she brings me to church actually, to meet someone else,
• 13:39
  another Catholic boy actually. One of my friends from one of.
• 13:42
  Your good friends. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:44
  And he wasn't there and but I see Tim and I've always had a
• 13:49
  crush on Tim always. And I see him and it's like the
• 13:55
  first time I see, I think since that interaction on campus.
• 13:57
  I mean, if you really want to get into it, after that
• 13:58
  interaction on campus, I called my mom.
• 14:00
  I was like, mom, I just ran into Tim Horton and I was like
• 14:04
  flustered. I couldn't catch my breath.
• 14:06
  But I had this this other boyfriend.
• 14:08
  She's like, why are you flustered over Tim Horton when
• 14:11
  you're going to go marry and convert and be another
• 14:12
  reluctant? Like she's.
• 14:15
  Like kind of, you know, I don't know, you're right.
• 14:17
  I don't know. I don't know, I hang up.
• 14:18
  You know, that boyfriend met Tim.
• 14:20
  He was really cool. Like he, you know, he came to my
• 14:22
  church too. And so one time he came to my
• 14:24
  church and he met Tim. He shakes his hand and we're
• 14:26
  leaving the church and he goes, yeah, you're going to leave me
• 14:29
  for him when I go on my mission. Stop it.
• 14:32
  Wow. And.
• 14:33
  I go no, of course not. But in my head I'm like, you
• 14:36
  think I have a chance like. No, he was more like, yeah, Tim
• 14:41
  was definitely checking out my girlfriend just now.
• 14:43
  I don't. Know I don't know, I didn't see
• 14:45
  the time, but and I tell a story.
• 14:47
  Some people get really mad at this.
• 14:48
  We're like, how could you be? But I didn't end up marrying
• 14:51
  that guy and I still I really I Tim just had that effect on me.
• 14:56
  I don't know what I don't know what to tell people meant it,
• 14:58
  you know, it just had that effect.
• 14:59
  It's not like I went and talked to him or anything.
• 15:00
  We didn't have each other's numbers.
• 15:02
  We never even spoke. But I just feel like there were
• 15:05
  these little tendence of like connection in some way that I
• 15:08
  couldn't see at the time. Tim, when did you first see
• 15:11
  Chrissy as someone maybe I could marry?
• 15:13
  Was that one on the campus or was that at church when you saw
• 15:16
  her the next time? I guess it's mostly on, on the
• 15:19
  campus there like some retreats and things like that.
• 15:22
  You know, I, we always got along.
• 15:23
  We spoke a lot. And me I guess forward thinking
• 15:26
  as like one day I could absolutely see me marrying, you
• 15:29
  know, Chrissy, but we were both so young at that point.
• 15:33
  But but yeah, not, I mean, I, I guess for a while, you know,
• 15:38
  even before that meeting on the college campus.
• 15:41
  Yeah, when I was older, yeah. Before that meeting, I remember
• 15:44
  you said at a retreat you were there was something where it was
• 15:46
  like an exercise to think about, like your future spouse.
• 15:49
  And you said I came to mind. How sweet.
• 15:51
  So there's just little things, yeah, that we couldn't explain
• 15:54
  that connected us in some way. So a lot of couples that I've
• 15:58
  heard their stories where they're, they find each other,
• 16:00
  they fall in love, they get married and then they both,
• 16:03
  there's like this faith journey or this kind of conversion
• 16:05
  process where they really just change the way they see the
• 16:08
  world, the way they see their marriage, even children,
• 16:11
  Everything else. I've heard a lot of different
• 16:13
  stories. I've heard stories where the
• 16:14
  spouses have the experiences separately and it actually
• 16:17
  creates some sort of attention in the marriage and then they
• 16:19
  have to figure out what to do. Or occasionally, but more
• 16:23
  rarely, they have it really together and it's actually part
• 16:26
  of their intimacy building process.
• 16:28
  Was your experience, Tim, that it was your process was together
• 16:33
  of falling deeper in love with faith, or was there some
• 16:36
  actually disagreements along the way?
• 16:39
  It was together, you know, we, we kind of, there's things at
• 16:43
  the time that we didn't like about the faith and we, we both
• 16:45
  didn't like them, but we, we, we went on that journey together
• 16:49
  and I think it's really helped strengthen our relationship.
• 16:51
  You know, it's it. Things are more special now than
• 16:54
  ever. That you were, you know, the
• 16:57
  good Catholic boy, go to college, kind of drift a little
• 16:59
  bit partying. You start dating Chrissy.
• 17:03
  At what point did you have start having a a check in your spirit
• 17:06
  that said, OK, I'm not being I'm not following God's law here.
• 17:10
  I'm just sort of being Catholic on Sunday and then not the rest
• 17:14
  of the week. That's that's kind of when we
• 17:16
  did came to this spiritual waking together, right?
• 17:19
  I don't think it was until like 2020, somewhere around that time
• 17:22
  really. You know, we always we raised
• 17:24
  our kids in the faith. We would read to them, we would
• 17:29
  teach them Scripture the best we could, but not until around
• 17:34
  COVID, I guess, is when we really started to dig deeper in
• 17:36
  our faith. That was after we had our 4th.
• 17:38
  And you, you discussed this on the last podcast.
• 17:40
  We didn't have him yet. We had him.
• 17:41
  Oh, I guess. But this is the start of the
• 17:43
  journey of being open to life. And that was both of our both of
• 17:47
  our story was that this whole learning about being open to
• 17:50
  life and having more kids is what drove us down this path of
• 17:54
  being stronger in our faith. It's funny, around that time, I
• 17:56
  remember going to confession for the first time in a while and
• 18:00
  our, our pastor, you know, he, he looks at me.
• 18:02
  I, I confess everything he's like.
• 18:03
  And I, I told him, Oh yeah, I've been playing guitar in the choir
• 18:06
  for 20 years at this other church.
• 18:07
  I actually played the church we go to now, our parish.
• 18:10
  I used to play there a long time ago as well.
• 18:12
  And he's like, what happened? What, what when you fall off,
• 18:15
  you know, what changed? And, you know, he's glad to have
• 18:18
  me back, really come back home in a way.
• 18:21
  But it, it was just it, it was crazy to me that I lived for so
• 18:23
  long thinking that I was being Catholic, but I really wasn't.
• 18:27
  You know, we were just kind of doing our own thing, making our
• 18:29
  own rules. And so anyways that, that after
• 18:35
  that confession, he told me, wow, I was a really good
• 18:36
  confession. And I was like, OK, hope for
• 18:39
  that. A great compliment from.
• 18:41
  I think so. What was your?
• 18:44
  And we're going to kind of go through the story more in a
• 18:46
  moment and then also talk about kind of, you know, the world's
• 18:49
  perspective on this stuff, including recent Internet
• 18:51
  controversy on our episode Christian and also positive, a
• 18:55
  ton of positive feedback. But I am curious what you're,
• 18:59
  you've said you were reading Scripture to the kids.
• 19:00
  You were singing in the choir in your, like, innermost heart,
• 19:04
  like the innermost part of your heart in your prayer.
• 19:08
  What kind of sense did you get? Just like God loves me.
• 19:10
  And maybe there was some like, just blindness or naivete, like
• 19:13
  a lack of formation, and you're just kind of going a certain
• 19:15
  direction. Or was there like a deep unrest,
• 19:18
  like what was going on deepest inside of your heart?
• 19:21
  If you can share. I think for us, we used to kind
• 19:24
  of proudly, I hate this say, oh, we're cafeteria Catholics.
• 19:28
  We just pick and choose what we want to do.
• 19:30
  And that seems to be kind of like cafeteria Catholic.
• 19:33
  I didn't come up with that, right?
• 19:34
  That's like a running joke. And so I think there's some
• 19:37
  things and maybe it's because the religion's so, you know, so
• 19:39
  old and everything. And so we think, oh, it's just
• 19:42
  out with the times. I know for me, my parents,
• 19:47
  they're divorced and my dad went to a mega church.
• 19:49
  So I got exposure and then, you know, I dated this other guy and
• 19:51
  so I had exposure to all these different religions.
• 19:53
  So I think for at least for me, it was like, oh, there's not one
• 19:56
  way, right? There's all these different
• 19:58
  ways. And so I was more like lukewarm.
• 19:59
  And I think that kind of was with you too, a little bit.
• 20:02
  You may not have had the same religious experiences, but.
• 20:05
  It was a little lukewarm. So in how in terms of conviction
• 20:08
  was with the with the kids, we pray, you know, obviously by the
• 20:12
  time we had kids, we weren't partying and stuff, but.
• 20:14
  I mean the, the drinking, you know, drinking too much.
• 20:16
  I think it still happened a little bit.
• 20:18
  When we go on vacation or something with our like, not
• 20:21
  with the kids. Yeah, back when we had not as
• 20:23
  many, we we'd go out with our friends.
• 20:25
  Or just like the content you consume too, like and and what
• 20:28
  that does to you, to your thoughts and things like that.
• 20:30
  So I, I think I was just naive about the whole thing.
• 20:32
  I I always was going to be Catholic.
• 20:34
  My mom was very devout ever, you know, she had me doing rosaries
• 20:39
  when I was five and six years old kind of thing.
• 20:41
  So my dad just recently converted.
• 20:44
  So, you know, we're really excited about that.
• 20:46
  But I just always knew I would marry a Catholic.
• 20:49
  I was going to always be Catholic, but I was a little
• 20:52
  naive to the rules and and you know, what's the right way to
• 20:56
  live? I think at least for me, and
• 20:58
  this might have been what how you were feeling too, especially
• 21:01
  with my experience in a mega church is as long as you have a
• 21:05
  relationship with Christ, that's a big thing.
• 21:07
  As long as you have a relationship with Christ, you
• 21:09
  don't need a building. You don't need to I the
• 21:12
  Eucharist. I'm literally just learning, not
• 21:15
  just learning, but truly understand because we talked
• 21:18
  about the last podcast that a lot of people, a lot of
• 21:20
  Catholics think it's symbolic and they don't realize this is
• 21:23
  really Jesus. And I knew it wasn't, but it
• 21:27
  wasn't in comprehending with me. But like, it's really hard.
• 21:30
  And it wasn't until our boys started making their first
• 21:32
  communion do we really dig into it.
• 21:34
  And it forced me to really try to understand the Eucharist
• 21:37
  more. And I think that was with you
• 21:41
  too, though it was just as long as we have a relationship with
• 21:42
  God. So yeah, that's why we would
• 21:44
  read Bible stories to our children, because we want them
• 21:46
  to have a relationship with Christ.
• 21:48
  But I don't think we looked at the rules as something as a form
• 21:51
  of freedom. We looked at it.
• 21:53
  They're kind of give or take, right?
• 21:55
  That's, that's all. You know, that's just the for
• 21:57
  the really hardcore Catholics, right?
• 22:01
  I think I didn't even occur to me that was sinning is the
• 22:03
  problem. I just didn't even register.
• 22:05
  Yeah. So at what point did you have a
• 22:06
  sense of a realization of I like these act like contraception.
• 22:12
  Let's just use that. Contraception is not OK.
• 22:15
  It's it, it actually violates the marriage.
• 22:17
  It's not for the marriage. It's not part of God's plan.
• 22:19
  And I know we talked about this a little bit, but I'm very
• 22:21
  curious from the male perspective how that even hit
• 22:24
  and what that what that thought process was like.
• 22:27
  That one I always knew. I, I that conscious, Yeah.
• 22:31
  I mean, but for whatever reason, I thought like, oh, the faith
• 22:34
  will come around or whatever, right?
• 22:35
  The vasectomy will be OK one day.
• 22:37
  Everybody's doing it. So that was that was my thinking
• 22:41
  there. And and not until we dug more
• 22:45
  into it and like the beauty of our intimacy and of life and we
• 22:48
  have all these kids and did it really start to make more sense
• 22:52
  to me. And, and how beautiful and how
• 22:54
  great it is to be open to life. In this case, anyone didn't
• 22:57
  catch the last podcast I was on contraceptives our whole
• 23:00
  relationship, even after marriage, and it wasn't until I
• 23:04
  got pregnant, well right before I got pregnant, obviously, that
• 23:07
  I stopped. That was 1.
• 23:09
  I actually didn't know, but maybe I just took more of the
• 23:11
  path you did to that and if in some way I didn't know.
• 23:14
  I just thought all the church come around I'll.
• 23:15
  Figure it out eventually. I do know a lot of Catholics.
• 23:18
  A lot is maybe the wrong word. But I do know of Catholics
• 23:21
  personally too, that disagree with the Church's teachings on
• 23:25
  very core moral issues that have been there for thousands of
• 23:27
  years. But then they still want to
• 23:29
  practice the faith, which is a beautiful desire.
• 23:32
  It's beautiful. But then they're just not
• 23:34
  willing to submit on these issues.
• 23:36
  And they're just expecting the church to eventually change its
• 23:38
  mind. Well.
• 23:39
  I was going to say, and I, I feel for them because we're
• 23:43
  actually kind of taught, we talked about this that you're
• 23:46
  irresponsible to have a lot of children. 1, you know, there's
• 23:48
  this whole argument, you can't give them enough attention. 2:00
• 23:50
  What if you're not financially able to?
• 23:52
  Three, you're hurting the environment that is very loud.
• 23:55
  That's very loud in our culture. And so I, two of us growing up
• 24:00
  in the Catholic Church, still super unfamiliar with a lot of
• 24:03
  things. I can imagine why a lot of
• 24:06
  practicing Catholics may still use contraceptives because I, I
• 24:10
  truly don't know. I think the church needs to be
• 24:14
  more vocal about it, to be honest.
• 24:16
  And maybe that goes down to just like what the, what your local
• 24:19
  priest is preaching. But I don't feel like that was
• 24:21
  something that was really widely discussed.
• 24:23
  Maybe it's discussed once in like your confirmation class,
• 24:25
  but I couldn't even tell you what I learned in my
• 24:27
  confirmation class as a 15 year old with all these other teens.
• 24:31
  So I think I, I have a lot of sympathy because the finance
• 24:36
  one's a big one too, right? You know, they're just trying to
• 24:38
  do what's responsible or they're, they're, they're
• 24:41
  stretched thin with the kids they do have.
• 24:43
  One thing I want to come or talk about is after we discovered
• 24:47
  being open to life and how that's going to be part of our
• 24:49
  life no matter what, I, I hope the church never changes their
• 24:52
  stance on, on it, right? But in the event that if they
• 24:55
  did, for whatever reason, we will, we, we would not start
• 24:58
  using contraceptives, right? We're just that's, that's the
• 25:01
  right way to live for us right now, forever.
• 25:04
  And again, I don't think the church will.
• 25:07
  I remember seeing headlines, you know, years ago that, oh, this
• 25:09
  is the right time for the church to change their stance.
• 25:12
  I hope I never see a headline like that again, you know?
• 25:15
  Media wants to like, trick people into thinking the church
• 25:18
  will change on these like fundamental natural law
• 25:20
  principles, but it's not going to happen.
• 25:23
  So when we were talking about the journey of, you know, the
• 25:29
  evolution of understanding the deeper teachings of the church,
• 25:31
  being open to life and everything else, what has been
• 25:34
  the biggest thing that has surprised you about each other
• 25:38
  in that process? I keep coming back to openness
• 25:41
  life and how you've actually been.
• 25:45
  There's been times where I said, well, maybe we could just, you
• 25:47
  know, skirt the rules this one time and you're like, no, no,
• 25:50
  that's, that's not how it's. You.
• 25:51
  I feel like you've held the line better.
• 25:53
  Than I guess we've we've gone back and forth on this
• 25:54
  sometimes, but that surprises me because.
• 25:59
  That I've held the line sometimes, yeah.
• 26:01
  Exactly, sometimes with that kind of thing and because, you
• 26:05
  know, being intimate is about procreation and it, we, we might
• 26:10
  end up with AI hope one day we end up with the 7th, but it just
• 26:13
  not, might not be in the timeline, you know, you
• 26:14
  envisioned, but you know, we're we're open to that and and your
• 26:18
  openness to it has been it's great to see.
• 26:22
  It's reassuring, gives me more confidence in the whole process
• 26:25
  too. Yeah, I think that's a really
• 26:27
  good point because there's times where you're really holding the
• 26:29
  line and he he'll hold the line and then there's times where
• 26:33
  I'll hold it. And I think that just shows like
• 26:34
  we're we're holding each other up in times where we feel weak
• 26:37
  maybe. Oh yeah.
• 26:39
  But you're, yeah, I usually go with, you know what you say?
• 26:43
  And so yeah, I guess that is a little surprising that I'm like,
• 26:44
  no, like this is how it's supposed to be So.
• 26:48
  But also I want to make it very clear, I mean, you can make this
• 26:52
  clear that this is a very mutual decision and so that.
• 26:56
  What is a mutual? Decision, the openness to lies
• 26:58
  and how we are. No contraception, no
• 27:00
  consciousness. Yeah, No, no pulling.
• 27:01
  Now you know, I don't know. Withdraw that probably maybe I
• 27:04
  have no withdrawal. No withdrawal method.
• 27:07
  Or something. Yeah, I think that's what it's.
• 27:09
  Called and just for folks listening here, like what?
• 27:13
  What am I? What am I listening to right
• 27:15
  now? The church's teaching on this,
• 27:18
  which is so beautiful and I believe it's the natural law on
• 27:21
  this, is that sex is designed for to be open to life and to
• 27:25
  for the potential for procreation as well as unity.
• 27:28
  And so any sexual act needs to have openness to life as well as
• 27:31
  unity between the spouses. So it's about loving each other
• 27:35
  and then it's about being open to life.
• 27:36
  So that's why contraception or pulling out or masturbation or
• 27:40
  orgasm, especially, I should say ejaculation specifically outside
• 27:45
  of the marital embrace is seen as against the natural order.
• 27:50
  And when you, when you think about it really simple, it's
• 27:52
  like sex at the end of the day is about coming together 1 flesh
• 27:56
  physically. That is the ultimate end.
• 27:59
  You can do, you know, enjoy yourselves up until that point,
• 28:02
  obviously. And there's a lot of personal
• 28:04
  intimacy that's involved and personal preferences and
• 28:07
  everything else. But the end goal is we're going
• 28:09
  to become one flesh and be open to life in the one flesh moment,
• 28:12
  even if we're not fertile at this time, but we would still be
• 28:15
  open to life. And that is the maybe one of the
• 28:18
  more simple ways to say it, although it can probably be said
• 28:21
  better than how I just said it. No you, you word everything
• 28:24
  beautifully. I also look at it as not
• 28:29
  objectifying you right? Our faith tells us how to live.
• 28:33
  People who don't have that faith, I like to find ways that
• 28:37
  they might relate to it and then bring them into the faith that
• 28:40
  that ideally. But you know, when, when one
• 28:43
  person is just getting the pleasure out of it, even if you
• 28:45
  say you like serving your your husband, it still feels like
• 28:48
  object, object objectification to me.
• 28:51
  Excuse me, you know, I'm using you as an end to a means kind of
• 28:53
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• 28:55
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  a full 20% off your order. So there was a, a ton of
• 31:51
  controversy over the line in the podcast.
• 31:55
  It actually wasn't even said in the podcast.
• 31:57
  It was a part of the marketing around the last podcast.
• 31:59
  Men don't need sex. And we got a lot of feedback and
• 32:03
  a lot of people mostly said, yeah, it's true.
• 32:04
  And and women don't either. I mean, it's not a, a biological
• 32:08
  need. And there's some people who live
• 32:10
  very fully alive, happy, contented lives without ever
• 32:15
  having sex. There are people who've died and
• 32:18
  have never had sex once in their life and lived life to the
• 32:20
  fullest. So, but I think it was
• 32:22
  triggering for some people because they say, well, there's
• 32:26
  a common theme that some people express and fear about marriage
• 32:30
  where they're starving the sexes.
• 32:32
  The the, the couple is starving each other of sex.
• 32:36
  And in, in a lot of these cases, the woman is blamed for
• 32:39
  depriving the man. And I've heard of cases where
• 32:41
  it's the opposite too. And it's not connected to NFP.
• 32:44
  It's connected to like relational issues.
• 32:47
  I'm curious your take on, I know you were tracking some of the
• 32:50
  controversy, Tim, that happened and, and really the dust up, a
• 32:54
  lot of it was mostly on the, the platform X, which is known for
• 32:57
  its crazy controversies. But what what was your take on
• 32:59
  all of that? Everything was just taken out of
• 33:01
  context really, right. Most of the stuff I saw online.
• 33:05
  But as far as marriage goes, you know, our vows say we need to be
• 33:08
  open to life and that we're going to try to start a family.
• 33:10
  And so I think you, I hate to use the word you have to have
• 33:15
  sex, but you kind of have to have sex because you, you got to
• 33:17
  try. And even if you, you don't think
• 33:19
  you can have babies, you should still try, You know, it brings
• 33:21
  you 2 together periods of abstinence.
• 33:25
  You know, Chrissy's commented on this.
• 33:26
  I, I think you said this on the podcast too.
• 33:27
  It, it also brings us closer together.
• 33:29
  And then when we then we can, we can be intimate again.
• 33:32
  It's just so much better. So, so yeah, as far as marriage
• 33:37
  goes, I I think there has to be sex and marriage.
• 33:41
  But you don't need sex in life to be happy.
• 33:42
  You know, they're absolutely, you can have a fulfilling life
• 33:45
  without ever having intercourse. And then your life is wonderful.
• 33:50
  Like you said, you live it to the fullest.
• 33:52
  You know, I'm not going to judge anyone's intentions, but I think
• 33:55
  there was a passion to hate on an idea that that really
• 34:03
  triggered folks. And that idea can be that, yes,
• 34:06
  you don't need sex because the culture is saying constantly
• 34:09
  you're entitled to sex. You need sex.
• 34:11
  And if you're in a marriage, your your spouse is not your sex
• 34:14
  object. Effectively.
• 34:15
  I think that is a strong narrative underpinning some of
• 34:18
  the, you know, approaches in parts of Christianity Today that
• 34:23
  you get married. So then now you have this
• 34:25
  personal sex object, your spouse that you love, but then you just
• 34:27
  get sex whenever you want. Sex as a part of loving them and
• 34:30
  being loved by them. But love is the order.
• 34:33
  Not just I'm seeking pleasure or an outlet.
• 34:36
  Yeah, the Internet seems to think we don't have.
• 34:37
  Sex at all well, is clearly not the ones who don't know.
• 34:41
  That we have 6 kids. Well, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 34:43
  The people who clipped the people.
• 34:44
  Who don't know who who we are at all, but something I saw coming
• 34:50
  up online quite a bit was especially when we're trying to,
• 34:52
  you know, postpartum, absolutely we're not going to be doing
• 34:54
  anything. We're just going to be focusing
• 34:56
  on the baby and taking care of the family, right?
• 34:57
  That's, that's our focus there. If we're trying not to conceive
• 35:03
  too soon, we're going to abstain.
• 35:06
  And I think that also triggered a bunch of people online,
• 35:08
  especially non Catholics, because they don't understand
• 35:10
  well, pull out condoms, some kind of contraceptive, right?
• 35:14
  No, we, we don't do that. We're always open to life.
• 35:17
  And so if we're not ready now, we're just going to abstain.
• 35:19
  And I would think that a lot of men would, would connect with
• 35:23
  this idea of self-control, right?
• 35:24
  There's this new push online for, and I'd love to see it,
• 35:27
  just all the health and all the, the discipline, right?
• 35:30
  People, take care of your body, eat right, exercise, work hard
• 35:33
  for your family, master your craft.
• 35:35
  But then in the bedroom, throw it all out the window is what it
• 35:38
  seems like. But no, you, you can be self
• 35:41
  controlled in that situation too and wait for the right times.
• 35:44
  Wait for the moment that your spouse is also there with you
• 35:47
  and you can enjoy it together. If you're in the situation where
• 35:50
  your spouse just doesn't enjoy sex, that's a chance for you
• 35:54
  guys to maybe learn, learn about each other and explore and
• 35:56
  figure out why. And maybe you your wife or
• 36:00
  spouse never enjoys it or it doesn't get that into it.
• 36:04
  There's still a requirement of of it there.
• 36:06
  So that's something that each couples going to have to work
• 36:08
  out, right? It's it's not I can't say
• 36:10
  everyone just you have to wait to be in the mood.
• 36:13
  Sometimes the husband has to get you in the mood or sometimes I
• 36:16
  think the wife just yeah, and I guess needs to figure out to get
• 36:21
  in the mood. That's kind of thing.
• 36:23
  But there's there's self sacrifice in both.
• 36:24
  Of this right so there's self sacrifice and if my wife is
• 36:27
  going through something or medically healing, obviously I'm
• 36:31
  going to sacrifice and practice self-control.
• 36:34
  But if there is something deeper going on with the wife because
• 36:37
  this was something that was brought up to me that I have
• 36:39
  been I've lived a very beautiful blessed life and I don't take it
• 36:44
  for granted and I've had you know while I do have regrets of
• 36:47
  not waiting till marriage, I've had a very healthy look on what
• 36:51
  intimacy looks like. You know I've never been
• 36:53
  sexually assaulted. I didn't have sex too young and
• 36:56
  so I would have a very different view than someone who's been
• 36:59
  through any kind of sexual trauma right so for me it's I
• 37:03
  can have six kids it's easy for like I can let's do this.
• 37:06
  That's my my favorite things to do with you right and so but for
• 37:10
  someone who has experienced that and they're married and and sex
• 37:12
  is difficult for them again, yes, obviously this is work on
• 37:16
  the deeper issues connect intimacy like what what's going
• 37:19
  on? Why is this hard for you?
• 37:20
  But there is like again, it is a marriage they're self
• 37:24
  sacrificing maybe on her end too.
• 37:26
  So we're not saying, I think that was the biggest
• 37:28
  misconception that this woman's calling all the shots, this
• 37:31
  man's needs are totally by the wayside.
• 37:34
  And that wasn't what we were saying at all.
• 37:37
  So that I mean, I think that's the clarification is just that
• 37:40
  they're self sacrificing on both ends and you don't want to have
• 37:42
  a sexless marriage and let you know obviously if there's not
• 37:47
  like a medical reasoning for this.
• 37:49
  I mean, honestly, I think for a lot of women.
• 37:51
  Especially maybe more traditional women or women who
• 37:53
  have been faced wounds. And by traditional, I don't mean
• 37:55
  to that word can be so misunderstood.
• 37:57
  So I what I mean by that is women who are wanting to be more
• 38:02
  by the book, you know, but maybe they go into access sometimes.
• 38:07
  And I do think there is women may struggle with not being
• 38:10
  comfortable enough in their own skin, not being playful enough,
• 38:13
  not getting enough space to be rested and, you know, kind of
• 38:16
  just at at play, quite frankly, to enjoy themselves and enjoy
• 38:19
  their intimacy with their spouse.
• 38:21
  So that probably could be it's a whole other show.
• 38:24
  Maybe firstly, we could have a show about that.
• 38:27
  But I'm curious, just based on what you were saying, Tim, about
• 38:31
  just men and self-control, what would your advice be for men for
• 38:35
  how to grow in self-control for the purposes of?
• 38:40
  Chastity and love. And service in dating and
• 38:42
  marriage the content you. Consume, I think it's huge,
• 38:46
  whether it's like pornography or just, you know, scantily clad
• 38:50
  women, you know, whatever that is, that it might be changing,
• 38:55
  you know, your energy more than you think it is.
• 38:56
  It's controlling you more than you think it is.
• 38:59
  That that would be my big push is just make sure you're looking
• 39:02
  at, you know, be careful about your content, diet, that kind of
• 39:04
  thing. Because I don't think a lot of
• 39:06
  men, you know, if you're interested in it, you don't have
• 39:08
  a hard time eating right or you might not have a hard time
• 39:10
  exercising. But if you're consuming that
• 39:13
  kind of content, you're going to have a hard time controlling
• 39:14
  yourself, I think. And, and being chased or even in
• 39:19
  marriage, you're going to have, you know, you're going to lust
• 39:21
  and possibly want your needs to be filled.
• 39:24
  I'm not thinking about your spouse, not thinking about the
• 39:26
  unity. So I the content I think has got
• 39:29
  a huge, huge part of that. So you were sharing?
• 39:32
  Earlier, your experience of that moment when you had the met the
• 39:37
  big trucker fans or whatever, the big mini vans at church,
• 39:41
  yeah, the sprinter vans at church and realized like, oh
• 39:44
  wow, there's people having 8910 kids and a mindset shift for you
• 39:48
  on openness to life. And you went home and had this
• 39:50
  conversation with Tim. I'm curious your experience of
• 39:54
  Chrissy's experience and then what was going on in your heart
• 39:56
  and mind. Yeah, at that point we started.
• 39:59
  You commented on this in the podcast, but we hit the
• 40:01
  Internet, started doing a lot of research and I even like half
• 40:05
  jokingly said, well, maybe we should, you know, become a
• 40:07
  Protestant or Mormon or something like that because.
• 40:10
  They can have, you know, they had their rules are looser and
• 40:13
  that kind of, but at that point at a you actually discussed that
• 40:16
  at one point. Not really.
• 40:18
  OK, I just I kind of threw it out there because, you know, a
• 40:21
  vasectomy is an option and another religion.
• 40:24
  Yeah. And pretty much every other
• 40:25
  religion. Every religion but all the non.
• 40:28
  All the but and I was looking at the whole situation.
• 40:30
  Wrong right. Looking at these kids as as a
• 40:33
  burden when the the three we had and the fourth who was coming,
• 40:36
  they're they've been the best thing that happened to us, you
• 40:38
  know, and it's not a burden at all.
• 40:41
  It's the blessing. I I feel so much more fulfilled
• 40:46
  now than I ever did, you know, so but but yeah, also going back
• 40:49
  to the idea of trying to bend the faith to fit our lifestyle.
• 40:53
  But you know, that's not your faith shouldn't do that.
• 40:55
  You you change your life for your faith.
• 40:57
  You don't you don't your face shouldn't have to bend for you.
• 41:00
  And that same thing coming back to Catholic Church needs to
• 41:02
  modernize. I know they don't.
• 41:04
  People need to just know Jesus and and live by his rules and
• 41:09
  and your life will be better. So how did you get there though?
• 41:13
  So how did you go from well, let's just go be Protestant.
• 41:16
  Let's go to this mega church down the street.
• 41:18
  How do we it was doing the research and and learning more.
• 41:20
  About the Catholic Church's stance on it, I remember
• 41:24
  watching a bunch of YouTube videos about it and being the
• 41:28
  the idea of unity is, is just so important as well.
• 41:31
  Like, you know, obviously sex is for procreation, but it together
• 41:36
  is more powerful. And that that moved me part of
• 41:39
  it, you know, and I still, I'm still learning about it and
• 41:43
  still understanding everything. Part of me just thinks we need
• 41:46
  to follow the rules. I, this is not a great attitude
• 41:48
  or some people have an issue with it, but the church let put
• 41:51
  these rules for us, create these rules for us.
• 41:54
  We should follow them. We should live by them.
• 41:56
  Because in the long run, what I found is when I've broken those
• 41:59
  rules, I've ended up in a situation, in a bad situation,
• 42:02
  I've got in trouble, I've gotten sick.
• 42:04
  Whatever happened, if I would have just lived by these rules
• 42:07
  to start with, my life would be better.
• 42:09
  I, I would be further along even in my career, things like that.
• 42:12
  I think some of the guys I met at those start-ups, they were
• 42:16
  devout Catholics. I didn't realize that at the
• 42:18
  time, but and they were in now looking back at them as they're
• 42:22
  inspirational, right? Because they were, they were
• 42:23
  still in as we were up in San Francisco at the time.
• 42:26
  And when my Co workers, you know, he always got to mass on
• 42:31
  Sunday. And so at that time in my life,
• 42:33
  I would have been more willing to skip mass.
• 42:35
  But seeing him go got me to mass as well.
• 42:38
  You know, and Mike has the, I think it's, it must be 5 or 6
• 42:43
  years old now, but a clip on being open to life on YouTube.
• 42:47
  And he talks about unity and procreation.
• 42:50
  And that one, you know, that I think changed both of us, right?
• 42:54
  We kind of watched that and we, we understood it more deeply and
• 42:57
  we, we decided to make that really part of our life.
• 42:59
  And I think learning, like we said, the.
• 43:02
  The design of sex too, of not us being used just for fleshly
• 43:07
  pleasure. That was a big one we learned
• 43:09
  about and I think that really changed our perspective to it.
• 43:13
  So that was the start though, because we weren't fully like we
• 43:16
  were convicted. Like we made the choice like,
• 43:17
  OK, no more contraceptives, no more of these things.
• 43:20
  But you know, let's use let's use the Marquette method or
• 43:24
  whatever. And you know, we went into that
• 43:25
  whole on the on the other podcast of like how I ended up
• 43:28
  getting pregnant, but you were the same, the same way too.
• 43:30
  When we couldn't believe that I was pregnant because we were
• 43:34
  following this thing to AT. And then but he comes, oh, yeah.
• 43:40
  And it's like, yeah, I cry every time I talk about it.
• 43:43
  But that's number six. That's number five.
• 43:46
  And it's like. You're.
• 43:48
  Unexpected baby when you were practicing NFP and the serious
• 43:52
  reason was you're recovering from from your last birth and
• 43:56
  God still gave you this baby. Yeah, that decision was left to
• 43:59
  us. We wouldn't have these two
• 44:02
  beautiful children. And so that's, I think once he
• 44:05
  was born and as far as being open to life like it.
• 44:07
  Was a transition, right. It didn't just, it wasn't a
• 44:09
  switch that flipped necessarily as far as making sure that we
• 44:13
  are open to life, that that was kind of AI guess that's just how
• 44:17
  we're going to look forward. But we resented it a little bit
• 44:19
  for a little while. And I kind of look at some of
• 44:22
  my, my Protestant friends and I get a little jealous, like look
• 44:24
  at what you're going out and doing.
• 44:25
  And, and I'm looking by these rules.
• 44:27
  But now it's actually flipped. And now I feel like, look at how
• 44:30
  fulfilled my life is. And I'm not saying my, my
• 44:32
  Protestant friends aren't fulfilled, but I, I get so much
• 44:35
  joy now out of living this way versus and it's not like I'm
• 44:39
  shackled in any way or, or it's, it's really for my benefit, for
• 44:43
  my family's benefit. And you're saying that because
• 44:46
  you have. Maybe Protestant friends who are
• 44:48
  having less kids? Exactly.
• 44:50
  That's exactly what it is, and I see them.
• 44:52
  They're able to do things we can't do.
• 44:53
  We like travel, fly RV. It's hard to find RV's for a
• 44:57
  family our size and, and so, but that's OK.
• 45:01
  You know, I life is still so much more meaningful for us
• 45:04
  with, with our family than it would be taking a trip out of
• 45:09
  just taking a trip or flying somewhere or something like
• 45:11
  that. So, yeah, I've, I've learned to
• 45:13
  love it Now it's I wish we live this way longer, right?
• 45:17
  We wish we start having kids sooner.
• 45:19
  Yeah, I think. And I think that's.
• 45:21
  Also, I mean, I, you know, me and all my millions of
• 45:23
  disclaimers that were, it's a very personal story talking
• 45:25
  about our own journey. But I think that is something I
• 45:28
  do struggle with to this day. So while I am fully convicted, I
• 45:33
  can't lie and say these other thoughts don't seep in, you
• 45:36
  know, there's times. So recently I just went to Las
• 45:39
  Vegas to go see the Backstreet Voice and I thought it would
• 45:41
  have I had AI met up with a friend there.
• 45:43
  But the first night I was alone and I really just wished Tim
• 45:46
  could have been there. I we have not had a weekend
• 45:49
  away. I couldn't even tell it last
• 45:50
  time. Probably like 2018 and so.
• 45:53
  Or oh, the hospital, the hospital we go get when I go get
• 45:55
  birth. Love those hospital stakes.
• 46:00
  Or whatever. And so I remember.
• 46:02
  I was sitting there and I. And I'm I called him and I said,
• 46:05
  oh, can we please? I just want to do like a weekend
• 46:08
  away, just us 2. And there are some families I
• 46:10
  know who have nine kids and they, they can manage the way
• 46:13
  our kids are at night. We cannot put that on anyone
• 46:15
  else at this point or we're just not comfortable with it.
• 46:17
  Like I don't think we would enjoy ourselves knowing our
• 46:19
  kids. We're just screaming and calling
• 46:20
  out for mom and dad in the middle of the night.
• 46:22
  And you know, maybe that's on us on the way we do the nighttime
• 46:25
  routine, you know, but that's, that's where we are.
• 46:28
  So again, I know there's families who have 10 kids and
• 46:30
  they're able to still like they have a village, they have that
• 46:32
  support and they're able to go and do mom and dad time and
• 46:34
  that's awesome. So I'm not trying to say if you
• 46:36
  have a big family, that's never happening.
• 46:38
  This is just I think. By the way, I have a my brother
• 46:40
  and. Sister-in-law they have 7 under
• 46:43
  9 and they do somehow do the getaway.
• 46:45
  Yes but again it's a family culture thing because I have 3
• 46:48
  and I the idea of doing getaway with my three right now sounds
• 46:51
  overwhelming because I don't want to leave them at night.
• 46:53
  So it's a parenting style thing. It's a child.
• 46:55
  There's so many different factors.
• 46:57
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 46:58
  So yeah, it's not. But not because we have a big
• 47:00
  feeling we can't get out. But yeah, it's I, I feel the
• 47:02
  same way. If we were down to with the
• 47:03
  first three, it'd be the same thing.
• 47:04
  And so, but so there were times like that, though, when I'm
• 47:08
  sitting alone in this nice hotel room and just wishing like, I
• 47:11
  just want, you know, time. And then I think about this and
• 47:13
  I get a little, you know, I'm human too.
• 47:15
  And I love my babies. I would never I would never
• 47:17
  actually, but I said it'd be kind of nice to know if we were
• 47:21
  done right, we could be ready to move on to the next chapter.
• 47:26
  And then but Tim's like, really, is that really, really what you
• 47:28
  want? Because there's also this
• 47:29
  massive freedom with being open to life because I have women who
• 47:35
  every how do you know when you're done having kids?
• 47:37
  It's the biggest question I get asked some people who are like
• 47:39
  new to my page. How do you know when you're done
• 47:41
  having kids? And I see women, you know, make
• 47:43
  these videos are all talk to women.
• 47:46
  And it's a, it's a quite the burden.
• 47:47
  That's a big decision to make, right.
• 47:49
  And it's really weighs on that. My husband dies.
• 47:52
  Yeah. Or like or my biological clock
• 47:55
  like stops, you know, or just like you know goes fully, you
• 47:59
  know there and because. We've talked about this that,
• 48:01
  you know, vasectomies are just the norm in our culture.
• 48:04
  So that's what they're going through.
• 48:06
  Is this when? When should he, When should he
• 48:08
  get the snip? And it's.
• 48:11
  It's a weight. And I know there's some women
• 48:13
  who say, Oh, no, I felt like weight was lifted once we made
• 48:15
  that decision. And I, I can't attest to their
• 48:17
  journeys, but I do see this struggle when they have to make
• 48:20
  this choice. And while sometimes I sit here
• 48:23
  and I say, wouldn't it be nice to know if we were just done
• 48:25
  right? We can move and then we can
• 48:26
  start planning these things. But then there's, there's such a
• 48:30
  freedom because again, I thought I was done with four.
• 48:32
  We thought we were done with four, right?
• 48:34
  And there's this freedom of like, I don't look at baby
• 48:38
  number six and like get crazy emotionally.
• 48:41
  This is the last time I'm going to see the first steps.
• 48:43
  This is the last time, you know, And it's, it's I can enjoy
• 48:46
  everything. And I think it's there's such a
• 48:50
  beauty in life, like not knowing what's next.
• 48:53
  And also when I do get a little down, like I just want to take a
• 48:56
  little vacation, which we could do.
• 48:58
  We we need to figure out our night time routine.
• 49:00
  But so it's not like you can't do those things.
• 49:02
  But when I like a month of boot camp, yeah.
• 49:05
  We're gonna do bedtime routine. So before #4 I think that's what
• 49:09
  your mom did. She came over.
• 49:09
  And she helped us out to yeah, we would.
• 49:12
  Go on date nights. Just go down the beach or
• 49:15
  something and your mom would do the bedtime routine with the
• 49:16
  kids, put them all to bed. Try to get them used to it.
• 49:18
  It don't work. But that's just our parenting
• 49:21
  styles and our kids. But anyway, when I get caught up
• 49:24
  in some of these things that like, OK, yeah, the vacation be
• 49:27
  like, would that vacation be worth more than like some of
• 49:30
  our, you know, having a bigger family?
• 49:32
  And I think it's a big thing to of thinking long term to like,
• 49:35
  what's our Thanksgiving table going to look like in 20 years?
• 49:39
  You know? And so there's there, you know,
• 49:42
  I always say something I've heard was it resonated with me
• 49:46
  and I shared a lot is sacrifice is not a bad thing.
• 49:48
  It's giving up something of comfort now for something so
• 49:51
  much greater in the future. And so yes, I'm not going to sit
• 49:55
  here and say everything's perfect.
• 49:57
  I love this. I feel convicted in this in this
• 50:00
  decision every single day. And I never question it because
• 50:02
  that's that's a lie. I question it.
• 50:04
  I have quite a few times where I get down sometimes, especially
• 50:07
  when I get wrapped up in in the world.
• 50:09
  I want to talk for like from a vanity perspective.
• 50:11
  Actually, I did a video recently where I showed Tim and how he's
• 50:15
  just getting hotter. Like I showed a picture of him,
• 50:17
  his, his license, his old license and his new license.
• 50:19
  And I'm like, this isn't fair. Like he's just getting hotter.
• 50:22
  And so from a perspective like I will never will I ever get my,
• 50:26
  my body back right? I don't even know what that
• 50:28
  means. And once you have 6 kids, I
• 50:29
  don't know how I would expect to look the same way I did before
• 50:31
  having six kids. But there's also that too, like
• 50:33
  I just want to get in shape and I just, which is, I'm not
• 50:36
  talking from a health perspective.
• 50:37
  I'm talking from a vanity perspective.
• 50:41
  So there's times too where it's like like I'm never, I'm never
• 50:44
  going to look the way I want to look.
• 50:46
  But the things I'm emphasizing on, again, they're not health,
• 50:49
  they're they're vanity metrics that are worldly.
• 50:53
  And so that's, so whenever I do get in these, this, this spiral
• 50:58
  of a thought process, you're really good at grounding me with
• 51:00
  that and helping me keep perspective on what our future
• 51:03
  is going to look like. We don't get a lot of ME time
• 51:06
  right now. With all the young kids really
• 51:07
  is what it is. And you know sometimes it's
• 51:11
  frustrating, right? You want to get something done
• 51:12
  or you want to exercise, whatever you're trying to do.
• 51:14
  The other day when I was in the garage exercising when the kids
• 51:16
  came out and he interrupted me, our two year old, our two year
• 51:19
  old came out. And.
• 51:22
  And at the time, it annoyed me a little bit, but then later I
• 51:24
  thought, there's going to be a day where I'm going to be able
• 51:26
  to do that uninterrupted. And, you know, I'm going to look
• 51:29
  over and that door is not going to open because they're all
• 51:31
  grown up. And and so, yeah, I don't want
• 51:33
  to stop having, you know, being open to that, right?
• 51:36
  Because it's it's, it's amazing. So also I tried to hold him off
• 51:41
  by the way I feel. No, no, no, I know you.
• 51:42
  No, I just know what people. Get like why I feel like your
• 51:44
  man. Workout, I know, but he, it's
• 51:46
  actually really sweet and this happens with a lot of the
• 51:48
  toddlers, especially if I have another baby.
• 51:51
  They I think this actually happens just because they start
• 51:53
  to realize who both their caretakers are as they get older
• 51:56
  and they become very attached to dad during like the two year old
• 52:00
  phase, very attached. Like if he knows daddy's home,
• 52:02
  he wants to be with daddy. And so when he knew you were in
• 52:05
  the garage, you know, I really tried to keep him away.
• 52:09
  But he's he's tenacious. He's got a lot of gumption.
• 52:11
  There you go. Well, and I know.
• 52:13
  He's not the boss. But at the same time, it was
• 52:14
  just like, I also knew you wouldn't want him if you're
• 52:17
  right there. You would want to comfort him.
• 52:19
  Yeah. And it's OK.
• 52:19
  I mean there will be. More time for me later for a lot
• 52:22
  of that stuff, right. I mean, because they're only
• 52:25
  young once and you still. Yeah.
• 52:26
  And I'm by no means are we trying to.
• 52:27
  Actually, like put your health on the back burner because it is
• 52:30
  important to work out and eat right and take care of yourself
• 52:33
  with the amount of kids you have.
• 52:34
  But it wasn't as if, yeah, it was a little interruption into
• 52:37
  your workout. It wasn't as if you're never
• 52:38
  working out because of it. It's that whole saying is like
• 52:41
  one day is going to be the. Last day they I'm going to mess
• 52:43
  this up the picking up. They ask you to pick them up or
• 52:45
  something like that and you don't know when that day is
• 52:47
  going to be right? But I there was some questions
• 52:49
  that came. In when folks knew that you were
• 52:51
  going to be on the show together, we had you together
• 52:54
  here and this was more kind of picking up on the conversation
• 52:56
  about like men's self-control and just virtue.
• 53:01
  And I think and then also women's self-control and virtue
• 53:04
  in rejecting the sexualization of the culture.
• 53:08
  But what would you, Tim? And then I want to hear you,
• 53:11
  Chrissy, from the woman's perspective.
• 53:14
  For men who have already made a decision, I'm going to reject
• 53:18
  pornography. How can they grow in purity of
• 53:21
  heart so that they can better love their wife or future wife
• 53:25
  more purely? And I'm going to ask you about
• 53:27
  women who are seeking emotional purity as well as physical
• 53:30
  purity and how they can love better too.
• 53:32
  I mean, my guess just from what you've shared so far and what I
• 53:34
  know of you as a couple is that you're, you love God, You're
• 53:38
  trying to serve and love God and he gives you love.
• 53:40
  To give back to Chrissy. I would say a big thing is
• 53:43
  leading. In prayer, because there are you
• 53:45
  are we are weak and so it's it's through Christ that we can do
• 53:48
  these harder things and leaning on him during those times.
• 53:51
  Yeah, it's just leading. Your family in their faith, I
• 53:54
  guess is what it comes down to, whether it's rosaries or even if
• 53:57
  it's just, you know, a blessing before a meal, something like
• 54:00
  that, reminding your children Jesus loves you.
• 54:04
  And I guess that's this is also not answering the question
• 54:07
  because we're referring to men who they want to grow deeper.
• 54:11
  I guess, yeah, if you're if you're a, you can already be a
• 54:13
  father. At that point too.
• 54:14
  But yeah, it's I'm learning more about your faith.
• 54:16
  You know, this is something that's I'm working on right now
• 54:19
  because I think I wasted a lot of time and I could be much more
• 54:23
  knowledgeable in my in my faith. But since, you know, us seeing
• 54:27
  the light and and becoming more devout, that's part of my, you
• 54:32
  know, to do's is just to learn more to to be to help me be a
• 54:34
  better Catholic. You know you can be a great,
• 54:36
  great Catholic, see your prayers and have a relationship with
• 54:39
  Jesus. But at this point I also want
• 54:40
  the knowledge, which I don't know if you to be a great
• 54:43
  Catholic. I don't think you have to have
• 54:44
  the knowledge, but I want it at this point you want the it's
• 54:48
  wisdom too. I.
• 54:49
  Mean that's really you you are the leader of your family and
• 54:52
  together you're obviously responsible for this beautiful
• 54:56
  souls and each other. So we got to learn, we've got to
• 54:59
  all grow in wisdom formation so that we can be responsible with
• 55:03
  that gift that we've been given. And I think it's through through
• 55:06
  that though when you. Learn and you start to learn
• 55:08
  more about your faith and learn why Christ developed these
• 55:12
  things the way he did. That's you become even more
• 55:14
  convicted as you understand more.
• 55:16
  And I think that I mean that's what helps you be more open to
• 55:18
  life. Like he's, he's analytical,
• 55:19
  right? He's going to read up, he's
• 55:20
  going to look, because that was the big thing when we came to
• 55:23
  this decision. Where's it saying in the Bible,
• 55:25
  right? Where's in the Bible?
• 55:26
  I get that's when I get a lot. And so you know, and that's
• 55:29
  where obviously as Catholics, we don't believe it's just the
• 55:33
  Bible, right, because you can take one scripture from the
• 55:35
  Bible and interpret it a million different ways, right.
• 55:37
  So ask athletics, we believe in the church as well.
• 55:40
  So but because you're analytical, you're a research
• 55:43
  guy, you're, you know, you're a book guy, learning more and
• 55:48
  really trying to understand it is what convicted you more.
• 55:50
  So if you are, if you were struggling with pornography and
• 55:52
  now you're trying to, you know, combat that and now you're
• 55:55
  trying to be a better husband, learning more what?
• 55:59
  Like, why, why are we rejecting pornography?
• 56:01
  Why are we rejecting these things?
• 56:02
  Why is the church's stance on this?
• 56:03
  And as you understand the why, I promise you, you'll be more
• 56:06
  convicted of it. Reminds me of of.
• 56:08
  Did you ever go to? Steubenville retreats, have you
• 56:09
  been to this? No, but I've heard about them.
• 56:12
  When I was. Involved with the youth group I
• 56:13
  used. To we went every year and, and
• 56:15
  they were for a lot of people, they're really special.
• 56:17
  But for me, I almost was a little off putting because I,
• 56:21
  I'm more analytical. I, I struggle with the spiritual
• 56:23
  side of things, right. And during adoration, I see all
• 56:27
  these people receiving all these charismatic gifts and I'm
• 56:30
  sitting there. OK, when's, when's my coming
• 56:33
  here? And, and you know, I don't think
• 56:34
  I was spiritual enough. I wasn't open up.
• 56:37
  I wasn't open enough. And I found those retreats to be
• 56:40
  a little, I went, I supported the youth.
• 56:44
  A lot of people had great experiences and they left their
• 56:47
  hearts on fire for me. I left kind of the same way I
• 56:52
  went into it, right? It didn't it mean the same and
• 56:54
  being spirit, being more spiritual is just a struggle.
• 56:56
  I personally have seeing things through an analytical lens most
• 57:01
  of the time or I want to where where's the proof kind of thing.
• 57:03
  So yeah, that's another thing I'm just trying to work on is
• 57:06
  becoming more spiritual. It's very much the masculine.
• 57:09
  Archetype, I mean, I think like the study analytical as opposed
• 57:13
  to sort of in the emotional experience again,
• 57:16
  generalizations of course. But Christy, what do you think
• 57:20
  for women to pursue chase love of their husband or their future
• 57:24
  husband and rejecting really the I think it's like almost sexual
• 57:28
  fantasy is maybe the wrong exact term, but certainly a more
• 57:32
  fantasy approach to relationships where you sort of
• 57:35
  objectify the man emotionally and physically potentially and
• 57:40
  that be the pitfall for a lot of women.
• 57:42
  So, yeah, so this is actually interesting.
• 57:44
  Because I love a great romance story, right?
• 57:47
  And I am all for great ROM coms. And so I want to make that clear
• 57:53
  because I think you should have this a great love story.
• 57:56
  I mean, you mean it may not unfold that way, but there's
• 57:59
  nothing wrong with a great love story, right?
• 58:00
  Where there's passion and you would crawl the ends of the
• 58:03
  earth for one of another. And by no means what I want to
• 58:06
  tell a woman to lower her standards by any means, you
• 58:08
  should have a man who who loves you.
• 58:11
  People say worship you and I'm like, well, no worship cries,
• 58:14
  but yes, who loves you and would would fight for you and want to
• 58:18
  do goodbye. You never lower your standards
• 58:21
  for that. But there's a big difference
• 58:23
  between that and quite literally unrealistic expectations.
• 58:27
  So a big comparison I use is I'd be heartbroken if I don't know
• 58:32
  if you ever watched them, but I, I used to watch the Victoria's
• 58:34
  Secret Fashion shows, right? And so you know, they're going
• 58:37
  to be on prime time TV and they come and they the epitome of
• 58:40
  what society would say like a perfect body, right?
• 58:43
  And you, you start to when you learn what their diets are and
• 58:46
  their workouts, that there's no way the average person could do
• 58:49
  that unless that what you know, that's their job.
• 58:51
  And so, but I'd be heartbroken if my husband looked.
• 58:54
  He was always so good. He would never watch those by
• 58:57
  the way. He you know, he'd say, and he'd
• 58:58
  be like, Oh, they don't hold a candle to you, honey, like, you
• 59:01
  know, he's so good because I'd watch them and I he'd be in the
• 59:03
  room, but he he would, he'd be working on his computer.
• 59:05
  But anyways, I'd be heartbroken. And this is also pre your
• 59:08
  conversion too. I would be heartbroken though if
• 59:10
  I had. Kids because it was like what if
• 59:12
  like Heidi Klum, do you remember her?
• 59:14
  She she had kids and she walked one right?
• 59:15
  She had a baby and then she ended up walking the Victoria's
• 59:17
  Secret Fashion show and she looked obviously amazing and,
• 59:22
  and again, but that's a very unrealistic expectation.
• 59:24
  And so if I had a baby, right? And then he was like, well, you
• 59:29
  have that Victoria's Secret body.
• 59:30
  That's a very unrealistic expectation.
• 59:32
  He would never would, but that would be an incredibly
• 59:34
  unrealistic expectation. Now in the world of AII, don't
• 59:36
  know if you've seen this, but there's like AI models in Vogue
• 59:39
  magazine. So now it's not even humanly
• 59:42
  possible to achieve some of these these looks.
• 59:45
  So I kind of look at some of the content women consume when it
• 59:50
  comes to men. Are we are we viewing what our
• 59:53
  men should be like the way a man might view how a woman should be
• 59:55
  like in that Victoria's Secret analogy, That makes sense.
• 59:58
  So when you, as we talked about earlier, when you have like a
• 1:00:00
  romance novel, right, and this guy is just so perfect and so in
• 1:00:04
  love with this woman and you think this is how men should be,
• 1:00:08
  all men should be. But in reality, that man was
• 1:00:11
  written by a woman with a woman's brain, you know, And so
• 1:00:15
  I'm not saying to lower your standards by any means, but be
• 1:00:17
  careful. It goes back to that.
• 1:00:18
  Be careful of the content you're.
• 1:00:20
  Because when I was reading these romance novels, my husband's
• 1:00:23
  amazing. I mean, you see me gushing over
• 1:00:24
  him. I love him.
• 1:00:25
  He's supportive in every way. And but there would be nights
• 1:00:30
  where I'd be reading my book and he wasn't giving me the
• 1:00:33
  attention I wanted. And I'm thinking like, well,
• 1:00:35
  this guy's giving this girl this kind of attention, like, and I
• 1:00:38
  would honestly be upset with him.
• 1:00:40
  And then it would get in my head like, well, maybe, you know, and
• 1:00:44
  it, and I guess it comes down to why was I thinking that way?
• 1:00:46
  What was influencing me to think this way?
• 1:00:49
  And so I don't know how to say this delicately enough to say
• 1:00:53
  where I'm not saying to lower your standards, but make sure
• 1:00:55
  the standards are rooted in reality.
• 1:00:58
  And that's, and that would be my advice to to young women is yes,
• 1:01:01
  find a godly man find, but understand that just like you,
• 1:01:04
  that you have faults, he's going to have them too.
• 1:01:08
  And so I've seen women really brush off men quickly.
• 1:01:11
  Oh, this was a rough, this was rough.
• 1:01:12
  And I said, I don't know if that was necessarily a red flag or
• 1:01:14
  just he wasn't perfect, you know, or this expectation for 20
• 1:01:19
  year old boys to be behaving like maybe a male character in
• 1:01:22
  one of these books who's also like 37.
• 1:01:25
  And so I get it. I, I do understand this whole
• 1:01:27
  notion of I rejecting this idea of like boys will be boys,
• 1:01:30
  because what that turned into was like an excuse for the bar
• 1:01:34
  to be low for, for guys to do whatever they want to women.
• 1:01:37
  And, and I understand that, you know, that's a big thing.
• 1:01:40
  You hear online. The bar is so low for men,
• 1:01:42
  right? And that's not fair for women.
• 1:01:44
  The bar so high the bar, you know, but we have to also
• 1:01:49
  realize how we're designed and and, and not expect necessarily
• 1:01:54
  21 year old to have it figured out like the 40 year old male
• 1:01:56
  lead that you read about, you know, and that's like how
• 1:01:59
  wonderful and wise and everything you are.
• 1:02:01
  He was all these wonderful things in his 20s, but he's
• 1:02:02
  obviously grown since his 20s. And if I was expecting him to
• 1:02:06
  behave this way as a 21 year old boy, would we have ever gotten
• 1:02:11
  together? And so, you know, definitely.
• 1:02:15
  Again, I can't emphasize this enough.
• 1:02:16
  No, not lower your standards, but make sure they're rooted in
• 1:02:18
  in in reality. And we're giving grace to one
• 1:02:20
  another as well. If he's a jerk to you, yeah, I
• 1:02:23
  don't want you should not be with a jerk.
• 1:02:25
  But if he laughed at a joke that may have been a little
• 1:02:28
  inappropriate. I don't know.
• 1:02:28
  It's just what we understand to the whole person.
• 1:02:32
  And I do think there's a. Culture of like man.
• 1:02:34
  Versus men versus women. And it's like we kind of don't
• 1:02:36
  want them to get together. I think it's very hard to date
• 1:02:39
  in this day and age. If you think about, I would say,
• 1:02:43
  I mean, it's really hard to meet people too.
• 1:02:44
  So it's hard. So it's easy for me to say get
• 1:02:46
  off the dating apps, but I really don't know how people
• 1:02:48
  meet one another except for Sacred Spark.
• 1:02:51
  The new The new dating app that I.
• 1:02:52
  Highly recommend. There's a wait list.
• 1:02:54
  It's not out yet, but Sacred Spark.
• 1:02:56
  OK, but another thing is that's a very.
• 1:02:59
  Objectifying you're window shopping people, right?
• 1:03:01
  Well, that's a sacred spark is going to do it.
• 1:03:03
  Differently where they have like videos where people are
• 1:03:06
  introducing themselves so instead of you can't you don't
• 1:03:08
  get to just swipe a picture you're like have to interact
• 1:03:10
  with someone actually explaining hey this is a little bit about
• 1:03:12
  myself. So it's trying to create a more
• 1:03:14
  human approach to values based faith-based dating Catholic
• 1:03:18
  dating. I love that.
• 1:03:19
  I love that. Yeah.
• 1:03:20
  So I. So I think there's also, but
• 1:03:22
  yeah, this culture of the dating apps is, is, is it's hard.
• 1:03:26
  I really do empathize with it because especially this, the
• 1:03:29
  younger generation, they really got screwed over with the
• 1:03:32
  pandemic in terms of just their view of the world, of the
• 1:03:35
  closures, the way they weren't allowed, at least here in
• 1:03:38
  California, weren't allowed to go to school, interact with each
• 1:03:40
  other in very formative years. So I have a lot of sympathy for
• 1:03:44
  how they're navigating the world in relationships with one
• 1:03:46
  another. And again, they're also in this
• 1:03:49
  massive overconsumption of content too.
• 1:03:52
  So you go on TikTok and you're going to hear all this advice
• 1:03:56
  like 6 red flags and a guy and you know, if he's only taking
• 1:04:00
  you to coffee on that first day, he's not taking you to dinner,
• 1:04:03
  he's out. And to me, I'm like, because the
• 1:04:06
  whole notion is like men can't be cheap.
• 1:04:07
  We do a lot what? And it's like, OK, but you're
• 1:04:09
  but he doesn't know you. What's wrong with like a.
• 1:04:11
  I personally would rather meet for coffee.
• 1:04:12
  So the pressures off of me as well.
• 1:04:14
  Ice cream. Yeah, like yeah, meet for ice.
• 1:04:16
  Cream, but like this whole. And there's another notion too,
• 1:04:18
  that's like he needs to be and, and it's again rooted in vanity
• 1:04:22
  and it's rooted in very worldly, it's worded in the world in
• 1:04:27
  vanity where it's like, oh, he has to be at least 6-1 and he
• 1:04:29
  has to make this kind of money. And I'm like these are you, are
• 1:04:32
  you looking for a 40 year old man or are you looking for
• 1:04:34
  someone your age like? And by the way, a lot of those
• 1:04:36
  men that are 40. Have got married in when they
• 1:04:40
  were 25 to a woman that embraced them and loved them for who they
• 1:04:43
  were and helped build that with them and this is where I have
• 1:04:47
  because I. Really love that I love that we
• 1:04:50
  got married young because as you can see, we grew together and I
• 1:04:53
  think it's really special and we learned and navigated the world
• 1:04:55
  together because we got together so young and I love so I'm not
• 1:04:59
  against people getting married young, but but I don't want to
• 1:05:02
  have this encouraging thing like, Oh well, he's really
• 1:05:04
  broken, but you'll be you guys will be able to fix each other.
• 1:05:07
  So it's, it's such a, it's really, it's a lot of, yeah,
• 1:05:10
  it's a tightrope that I have a hard time giving advice in
• 1:05:13
  because it is, there is a lot of nuance with it.
• 1:05:16
  You've been out of the game for a while.
• 1:05:17
  I've been out of the games. Like it was.
• 1:05:20
  Like 19 years old so. So what is up next?
• 1:05:24
  For you 20. He's hoping for more babies.
• 1:05:28
  Well, I'm I'm. Not that I'm not hoping for more
• 1:05:30
  babies, but yeah, I yeah, I guess you have more, more
• 1:05:34
  babies. Sorry.
• 1:05:36
  You can answer that one. I would love more babies.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah. Whenever, Whenever you're ready.
• 1:05:41
  We'll see. Well, I mean, it's whenever.
• 1:05:43
  The Lord says says they're ready.
• 1:05:45
  I'm actually, yeah, as of now. I'm going to.
• 1:05:47
  Yeah, I'm going to. Focus on the family.
• 1:05:49
  I'm I'm kind of taking some time off from work, help Chrissy with
• 1:05:52
  whatever she needs help with with her platform and then I
• 1:05:55
  will be spending time homeschooling the kids as well.
• 1:05:58
  I wish. I'm really looking forward to
• 1:05:59
  that and getting a little more involved in that.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah, I would love to have you on more I.
• 1:06:04
  Think it would be beneficial to hear more of what you have to
• 1:06:06
  say? You've gotten a lot of feedback,
• 1:06:08
  Chrissy. And you too, Tim, through
• 1:06:10
  Chrissy, I know it's through her page mostly, but just the people
• 1:06:14
  who have been really impacted by the content that you create.
• 1:06:19
  I know the show that we did touched a lot of people would
• 1:06:21
  have been some of those things that you've heard and you've
• 1:06:24
  heard as well, Tim. And how has that sort of
• 1:06:27
  inspired you to want to do this more together as a couple?
• 1:06:31
  The fact that you're even here is like kind.
• 1:06:33
  Of crazy. I never if you told me like like
• 1:06:35
  last year that you'd be coming and doing a podcast with me.
• 1:06:38
  I I mean he doesn't even have a single social media.
• 1:06:41
  I have a well, never mind. I don't have a social.
• 1:06:43
  Media, yeah, you took it down. I got rid of LinkedIn.
• 1:06:45
  It's. Gone.
• 1:06:47
  I guess you're technically on. X 'cause you real name or fake
• 1:06:50
  name. It's just my real.
• 1:06:51
  Name. Well, I might be changing it
• 1:06:53
  after. This, but you say it with.
• 1:06:55
  Your chest, but you don't. But you don't tweet.
• 1:06:57
  I don't know what it's called on XML.
• 1:06:58
  Is it called tweets but you don't post?
• 1:07:00
  Well, you follow a lot of news and stuff on that news.
• 1:07:03
  Yeah, that's really what it is. It's like.
• 1:07:04
  News and. Programming stuff it's not.
• 1:07:06
  There's a lot of good Catholic content on Oh yeah, a lot of
• 1:07:08
  Catholic. Content.
• 1:07:09
  Also some bad Catholic content. On there, I think that's what.
• 1:07:11
  Hurt the most is when you saw a. Lot of the the Catholic
• 1:07:13
  Christian content creators coming after Lila and I the way
• 1:07:16
  they did. Yeah, that's only some.
• 1:07:17
  Like this is the thing the loud. Ones are the most there's like
• 1:07:21
  the minority can be the most vicious, but the majority is
• 1:07:24
  very supportive. I mean, really objectively
• 1:07:26
  speaking, it was the majority that were very and it was just
• 1:07:28
  like people that I think are trying to build brands on
• 1:07:31
  controversy, try to make something more controversial
• 1:07:34
  than it is for the sake of creating a a clap back.
• 1:07:39
  Effectively. There was one person who.
• 1:07:42
  He doesn't have a following or anything, but he posted
• 1:07:43
  something I commented. I said I don't like it.
• 1:07:46
  And then he made a a reference that he actually is familiar
• 1:07:50
  with us and he is one in one of our communities in San Diego,
• 1:07:53
  but he knew people who went to our parish.
• 1:07:55
  And they and then he went off saying that he.
• 1:07:57
  So he knows about us. Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  And that we're not very good parents.
• 1:08:02
  Things along those lines and that Christie should shut down
• 1:08:04
  her account. And then so I, I DMD him and I
• 1:08:06
  asked him to take it down. I asked him, you know, who do,
• 1:08:09
  who do you know, or why would you say this?
• 1:08:11
  And he's like, well, I try not to engage in gossip, but I
• 1:08:13
  didn't hear it. I put him in line.
• 1:08:16
  Yeah, so wrong that that. 1. That shook us up.
• 1:08:19
  A bit because he was in the. Community, but I brought that up
• 1:08:23
  to our priest who used to be a lawyer and he's like, that's
• 1:08:26
  defamation. Who is this guy?
• 1:08:27
  Like that's fine. He deleted the.
• 1:08:29
  Comment Well, you know, so no, like that's not someone who's
• 1:08:32
  safe. To be friends with,
• 1:08:34
  unfortunately, you know, and I was kind to him.
• 1:08:36
  About it, I was like, well, you know, we have a lot of the same
• 1:08:38
  interests. Maybe we can actually get to
• 1:08:39
  know each other and then you won't have to judge my family
• 1:08:41
  this way. So that one.
• 1:08:43
  But then talk about that guy. There's probably people, you
• 1:08:45
  know, in our communities, our local communities that don't
• 1:08:48
  like our lifestyle and that's gonna be part of it too.
• 1:08:51
  And that's the whole counterculture thing that I
• 1:08:52
  think you mentioned before. So going back to the online
• 1:08:54
  controversy where there. Was a pastor from a mega church
• 1:08:58
  and jumping on the viral bandwagon.
• 1:09:00
  So he did it like 2 weeks after everything kind of went crazy.
• 1:09:03
  I don't think I saw this one. And he took the.
• 1:09:06
  Clip you know, men don't need sex.
• 1:09:09
  Basically he was saying, yeah, you're you're right.
• 1:09:12
  He was saying you're right, like you don't need it the way you
• 1:09:14
  need food, water, shelter. But how would women feel if they
• 1:09:18
  said you don't need emotional intimacy?
• 1:09:19
  And this was a big I don't know if you saw that.
• 1:09:21
  I saw that where people were saying, well, how would women
• 1:09:23
  feel if you don't need emotional instruments?
• 1:09:25
  Like you, my man, need emotional intimacy too.
• 1:09:27
  What do you think? You just need sex?
• 1:09:29
  You is that why you married your wife?
• 1:09:31
  Like, what are you talking about?
• 1:09:33
  Like women are the only one who want emotional intimacy.
• 1:09:36
  And so I didn't, I didn't even have to do any digging on this
• 1:09:40
  guy. He said what he said and people
• 1:09:42
  were sending it to me. And then they said, don't pay
• 1:09:44
  this guy any mind because this is he's known for saying like
• 1:09:48
  pretty crazy things. And all I did was put his
• 1:09:51
  Google, like Googled his name and he had a sermon.
• 1:09:55
  And this just kind of goes back to this the women feeling the
• 1:09:57
  need to serve their men sexually, like kind of like a
• 1:10:00
  sex object. He had this a sermon.
• 1:10:03
  This wasn't a joke in a bar. This wasn't a joke in the locker
• 1:10:05
  room. This wasn't just in some passing
• 1:10:07
  by. This was in his sermon where
• 1:10:09
  he's leading his flock and that he thought out and wrote out the
• 1:10:14
  week ahead. And he says, OK, I have a gold
• 1:10:17
  nugget piece of advice I got to you.
• 1:10:18
  I I got from a mentor of mine. This one's I'm going to speak to
• 1:10:22
  the to the gentleman at first when you're about to get
• 1:10:25
  married, your wife, your fiance has been planning this day her
• 1:10:29
  whole life. She's got the bridal magazine.
• 1:10:31
  I've heard this. Yes, she puts the veil over her
• 1:10:34
  head and pretend. So when it comes to her wedding
• 1:10:37
  day, not theirs, hers when it comes to her wedding day, you're
• 1:10:41
  going to stand where she tells you to stand.
• 1:10:42
  You're going to wear what she tells you to wear and you're
• 1:10:44
  going to do what she tells you to do.
• 1:10:46
  OK, So this is very dehumanizing for both.
• 1:10:47
  People what you're about to say. And then he goes, can I get a
• 1:10:50
  Amen? And everyone's like Amen and.
• 1:10:51
  He goes, OK, now ladies, when it comes to his wedding night,
• 1:10:55
  you're going to stand where he tells you to stand.
• 1:10:58
  Do what he tells you to do and where what he tells you where
• 1:10:59
  and you're going to make him the happiest man in the world.
• 1:11:02
  And once I, I was like, OK, why am I even bothering with this
• 1:11:06
  guy? But that was, it was really
• 1:11:08
  heartbreaking to hear that when it was his wedding night, not
• 1:11:11
  theirs, not end of their wedding day and her wedding instead of
• 1:11:13
  it's theirs. Together yeah, because I, I do
• 1:11:16
  yeah I, I, I agree it's heartbreaking to put put people
• 1:11:20
  in boxes to say men just men just need and want sex all day
• 1:11:23
  long. Women just need to want
• 1:11:25
  emotional intimacy all day long. And you're like trading those
• 1:11:28
  things to get the favor from the other transactional.
• 1:11:30
  Does she not have a daughter? I I don't.
• 1:11:32
  Know when I heard that I was like.
• 1:11:33
  I would never tell that joke. It's dark.
• 1:11:36
  It's just dark. It's it's at at church to the
• 1:11:39
  all the men and the. Women in this country at church.
• 1:11:40
  At mega church. And so it was, and here's the
• 1:11:45
  thing, I have heard some of the other things he has said and
• 1:11:49
  he's not wrong in some of these other things.
• 1:11:51
  So that's the problem. And we're seeing this a lot,
• 1:11:53
  especially in the the red pillars or whatever is like
• 1:11:55
  you'll get these really great kernels of truth.
• 1:11:58
  And especially where we live in a society where we the pendulum
• 1:12:02
  swung so far. So now people want to get it
• 1:12:04
  back right. And so they'll say, mention,
• 1:12:07
  watch porn, yes, you know, men, we we need to do better to
• 1:12:11
  provide yes, and then it kind of and then you go and go go.
• 1:12:13
  And then it's like, but women, you need to be doing this all
• 1:12:16
  the time, serving your men in this way every single time.
• 1:12:19
  And it goes to another extreme. And so, well, I think that their
• 1:12:23
  argument is we'll we there. Are no standards in place for
• 1:12:26
  women? Women just get to do whatever
• 1:12:28
  the heck they want. And it's like, no, there are.
• 1:12:30
  We're we're called to be open to life.
• 1:12:32
  We're called to be welcoming and nurturing life.
• 1:12:34
  We're called to love and respect their husbands and we're called
• 1:12:37
  to, you know, build this beautiful family with them and
• 1:12:39
  serve in every physical way and emotional way possible.
• 1:12:42
  And the services that we should be we give as women, especially
• 1:12:45
  as mothers, is is really to the point of death.
• 1:12:47
  Even like, like, you know, there's they say the closest
• 1:12:51
  thing you get to death sometimes is labor and delivery.
• 1:12:54
  I mean, it's just not just not to scare people because it's
• 1:12:56
  natural and your body knows what to do.
• 1:12:58
  But it is very intense and it and you're giving all of
• 1:13:01
  yourself. Absolutely.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:04
  So. Hearing that, hearing that and I
• 1:13:06
  had women arguing with me because he they really like him.
• 1:13:10
  And so, but then I said this is this is the view of sex that
• 1:13:13
  we're having though in this whole that it's very
• 1:13:15
  transactional. And it was that was what was
• 1:13:18
  very upsetting. And so I kind of clapped back at
• 1:13:21
  him, but I had women being like, this is going to be, I think
• 1:13:24
  this is very difficult because you've been braised in the
• 1:13:26
  Catholic faith where this is your how we view, how we view
• 1:13:29
  intimacy. But in the a lot of these non
• 1:13:31
  denominational Protestant religions, this is kind of how
• 1:13:34
  they're viewing. And that's like the woman.
• 1:13:36
  The woman sort of sees herself as a sex.
• 1:13:37
  Object and she almost like owns it for fun like well I'll just
• 1:13:41
  let like it's all about and then he just like meets my emotional
• 1:13:43
  needs over here yeah instead of like let's become one flesh and.
• 1:13:46
  Become whole humans. Where I enjoy sex too.
• 1:13:48
  Sex is beautiful and he enjoys emotional intimacy too.
• 1:13:51
  It's beautiful. And we're all you know, fully
• 1:13:53
  whole as humans. And I shouldn't say to everyone
• 1:13:56
  because when I did post. That I said, is this the norm in
• 1:13:59
  a lot of other churches? And a lot of women said, no,
• 1:14:01
  this is not the norm. He he shouldn't have said that.
• 1:14:03
  So I don't want to be more of a fundamentalist.
• 1:14:04
  Yeah, I don't want. To say that's the norm, but to
• 1:14:07
  to. Me, and I think to you too, or
• 1:14:09
  it made us more established in our Catholic faith, was it
• 1:14:11
  wasn't up for us for interpretation of what some of
• 1:14:13
  this stuff meant. I just have to say I'm
• 1:14:15
  incredibly grateful for you both.
• 1:14:17
  Being willing to jump into the ring, so to speak, and share
• 1:14:20
  about your life, about your love, about your family.
• 1:14:23
  Because this is how today's culture is made and how people
• 1:14:27
  are being impacted. And I do think, yeah, we live
• 1:14:30
  our quiet lives and we just do our best.
• 1:14:31
  But media is incredibly powerful.
• 1:14:33
  It should be used. We should be talking about
• 1:14:35
  things that are difficult to talk about.
• 1:14:36
  We should be sharing about our lives, obviously, as you believe
• 1:14:39
  is appropriate. I know you don't share your kids
• 1:14:41
  names. You try to avoid faces a lot.
• 1:14:43
  But I, I just want to commend you both for being willing to do
• 1:14:46
  that. And Christine, I know you've
• 1:14:48
  already been in the ring doing it, but Tim, thank you for being
• 1:14:51
  willing to step in. I just think it's game changing
• 1:14:55
  and a blessing. We're very proud of Chrissy.
• 1:14:56
  And seeing those comments about people who are now open to life
• 1:15:00
  or reconsidering their faith, you know, becoming deeper,
• 1:15:04
  growing deeper in their faith, things like that, that makes,
• 1:15:07
  you know, those mean comments online worthwhile or, you know,
• 1:15:10
  we can tolerate that if it's bringing people back.
• 1:15:13
  Yeah. That that was the one you.
• 1:15:14
  I didn't answer your. Question.
• 1:15:16
  Some of the feedback was I've I've got incredible feedback.
• 1:15:21
  And obviously, it's the holy. Spirit just using me to to
• 1:15:23
  spread his word, but people saying I never never would have
• 1:15:27
  viewed sex that way until you guys spoke about it.
• 1:15:29
  Another one was being being open to having more kids.
• 1:15:32
  I've gotten so many of those where I always thought I was
• 1:15:35
  done until I started like following your page.
• 1:15:38
  That was a huge one. And then I've gotten approached.
• 1:15:41
  I've gotten messages from husbands and I've gotten
• 1:15:44
  approached in person by husbands and all along the same sentiment
• 1:15:47
  of you expressed and you expressed things in a way I was
• 1:15:51
  able to understand that. I think my wife's been trying to
• 1:15:53
  tell me, but she didn't have the words to articulate it.
• 1:15:56
  And the wives, you know, and then the ones I've met in
• 1:15:58
  person, the wife would be there. She said yes, like this is the
• 1:16:00
  way I was trying to explain things to my husband, but I I
• 1:16:02
  couldn't figure out the words to use.
• 1:16:06
  So that that's been amazing. That's been incredible and all
• 1:16:08
  this and that is that you know, because I have I was talking
• 1:16:11
  hundreds and I mean I saw probably.
• 1:16:13
  Thousands over all of comments and messages you were getting.
• 1:16:15
  DMSI was. I mean, I I get approached
• 1:16:18
  sometimes at the park or the grocery store, but that one
• 1:16:20
  particular show we did in your story, I think there was
• 1:16:23
  something special the Holy Spirit is doing.
• 1:16:25
  Absolutely. And so I, like I told you
• 1:16:27
  earlier, I had to go, I, I homeschool.
• 1:16:29
  So we go to a Co-op where there's a bunch of other
• 1:16:31
  homeschool families and I was getting recognized left and
• 1:16:32
  right and from from that particular episode, which I
• 1:16:35
  thought was just, it was just amazing.
• 1:16:37
  And it does make it worth it. And, you know, and when I was
• 1:16:39
  going through through the online drama, a lot of my community who
• 1:16:44
  follows a lot of my community reached out and it's just like,
• 1:16:46
  this is, you know, you're doing what God wants you to do because
• 1:16:49
  it's not going to come easy. You think you're going to get a
• 1:16:51
  bunch of praise and everyone's just going to love what you have
• 1:16:53
  to say. Like I'm not by any means of a
• 1:16:57
  very large influencer, but I do have a platform and I don't have
• 1:17:00
  that platform on my own. It's God-given truly.
• 1:17:04
  And I do feel being used by God to to, to do his will.
• 1:17:08
  And you know, maybe not every piece of contents going to be
• 1:17:11
  because we've talked about this too, where I'm not necessarily a
• 1:17:14
  Christian Catholic content creator.
• 1:17:16
  I'm just a mom living my life and sharing and sharing it with
• 1:17:19
  you. And obviously my faith is a big
• 1:17:21
  part of that. But coming doing social media,
• 1:17:24
  doing what you do, right, people can make the argument be home
• 1:17:26
  with your kids. That's like a big one, right?
• 1:17:28
  Why aren't you just home with your kids?
• 1:17:29
  But it's it's using your gifts to you word it really well on
• 1:17:36
  the podcast that you just recently and well, whether it's
• 1:17:38
  using your gifts. As a mother, when directly
• 1:17:41
  loving your kids or using your gifts in order to love the
• 1:17:43
  community like it's all in the end service of others and
• 1:17:46
  developing your talents. I'm excited to see everything
• 1:17:49
  you are going to create together.
• 1:17:51
  The children, the future children, as well as the
• 1:17:54
  content, most importantly, the children.
• 1:17:56
  But thank you. Thank you for thanks for being
• 1:17:59
  willing to do. This Tim too.
• 1:18:00
  I know it's like getting out of the the the usual zone of your
• 1:18:04
  your professional work, but it's it's a very, I think an
• 1:18:08
  incredible witness that you are. So thank you.
• 1:18:10
  Thank you, Matt. It's my pleasure.
• 1:18:12
  Thank. You thank you.
• 1:18:13
  Thank you for having us. I.
• 1:18:14
  Always love talking. To you and then where can people
• 1:18:16
  find? Well, Tim likes.
• 1:18:19
  Well, not his Twitter. Everybody knows.
• 1:18:22
  Tim's like to direct an American Tim, I think.
• 1:18:27
  You. Oh, going back to that, the
• 1:18:29
  feedback has made you more willing to want to come on to my
• 1:18:32
  channels and come on to your channels.
• 1:18:34
  Sure. Yeah.
• 1:18:34
  And that's fine. Thanks.
• 1:18:35
  And the show exactly so, yes. You can find.
• 1:18:38
  Me and appearances for my house. Special guest.
• 1:18:42
  Yeah, Special guest. I'm Christy Horton.
• 1:18:44
  Chrissy Horton on all platforms Instagram, Tiktok, YouTube or
• 1:18:51
  you can search by my handle Horton Lane.
• 1:18:54
  I love it. Thank you guys.
• 1:18:56
  Thank. You thanks so much for listening
• 1:18:58
  to this. Episode of the.
• 1:18:59
  Lila Roche show with Tim and Christy Horton.
• 1:19:01
  I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
• 1:19:03
  Make sure you're subscribed. Thank you so much to everyone
• 1:19:05
  who is subscribing, whether you're on podcast app or here on
• 1:19:08
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• 1:19:10
  Thanks so much and we'll see you next time.
• 1:19:12
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• 1:19:16
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• 1:19:19
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• 1:19:22
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• 1:19:26
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