Latest / The Ben Ferguson Podcast / ARE THEY PATRIOTS OR INSANE? 20 House Republicans Vote AGAINST Kevin McCarthy!

Transcript

ARE THEY PATRIOTS OR INSANE? 20 House Republicans Vote AGAINST Kevin McCarthy! · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Well, there's two ways to look at it. Either a
0:02
Speaker 1: you say this is a total mess, or you can say, well,
0:06
Speaker 1: this is good. It's amazing what happens when some conservatives
0:10
Speaker 1: stand up for their principles, and we might even get
0:13
Speaker 1: a different speaker the House and Kevin McCarthy. The headlines
0:19
Speaker 1: all over the country are exactly what you would expect
0:23
Speaker 1: this after Kevin McCarthy lost his third ballot the House
0:27
Speaker 1: and chaos is how CNN has it with no speaker elected,
0:30
Speaker 1: all business on hold. Democrats are loving this moment, cherishing
0:35
Speaker 1: this moment and saying, look at how the Republicans are
0:38
Speaker 1: in quote disarray. Is this disarray worth something for a
0:41
Speaker 1: twenty four hour old? Yes, I believe that it is.
0:45
Speaker 1: Now the House has decided to adjourn the headlines read
0:50
Speaker 1: there's quote no end in sight? Is that actually true? Well,
0:56
Speaker 1: joining me now to talk about the history of this
0:59
Speaker 1: and actually what's happened as Carry Pickett, she's a senior
1:02
Speaker 1: congressional reporter for the Washington Times and a good friend
1:05
Speaker 1: of mine. Carrie, I appreciate you coming on. I know
1:07
Speaker 1: you're very busy right now as a senior congressional reporter
1:11
Speaker 1: for the Washington times. This hasn't happened in literally a
1:14
Speaker 1: hundred years. Put a little bit of historical perspective into
1:19
Speaker 1: this now, and then we'll get into the modern kind
1:21
Speaker 1: of day politics of it. That's right. The House speaker's election,
1:25
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, it has not required multiple ballots in
1:28
Speaker 1: one hundred years. Now. House historians they've recorded fourteen instances,
1:34
Speaker 1: many of them in the years after the Civil War,
1:37
Speaker 1: in which the speaker election required numerous ballot rounds, and
1:42
Speaker 1: the last time at the start of the sixty eighth
1:45
Speaker 1: Congress in nineteen twenty three. That was when Frederick Huntington
1:50
Speaker 1: Galet he's a Massachusetts Republican. He was elected on the
1:55
Speaker 1: ninth ballot. Okay, Now, the five hold outs against McCarthy,
2:01
Speaker 1: you know, they're demanding really key changes to the House
2:05
Speaker 1: rules that would take power away from the speaker and
2:08
Speaker 1: giving more governing authority to the committees and rank and
2:12
Speaker 1: file lawmakers. You know, for example, one would require the
2:17
Speaker 1: reinstatement of a rule that would allow lawmakers a vote
2:20
Speaker 1: to replace the House speaker at mid Congress. And look,
2:25
Speaker 1: you understand the so McCarthy has been pretty reluctant to
2:29
Speaker 1: negotiate with these uh five holdouts out of concern that
2:33
Speaker 1: it will embolden this group to make even more demands,
2:36
Speaker 1: even even after if he was elected speaker. Now, as
2:41
Speaker 1: we've seen, Ben, it isn't just five holdouts after a
2:46
Speaker 1: three rounds. So far, we've seen like, you know, nineteen
2:52
Speaker 1: members come out against McCarthy, voting for mister Biggs of
2:58
Speaker 1: of Arizona as well as mister Jordan of Ohio. So
3:04
Speaker 1: you know, he has a lot of negotiations to do
3:06
Speaker 1: right now. You know, you look at these these twenty
3:10
Speaker 1: that have basically said, hey, we'll go with Jim Jordan,
3:14
Speaker 1: for example, we're done, you know, with Kevin McCarthy, and
3:19
Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying now it looks like
3:21
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy may be done. He says, no, I'm not.
3:25
Speaker 1: The adjournment does it help or hurt? Because the early
3:29
Speaker 1: morning argument when they got there Tuesday morning was hey,
3:34
Speaker 1: if it takes one hundred votes, Kevin McCarthy said, we're
3:37
Speaker 1: gonna do it in a hundred votes. If it takes
3:38
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty, we're gonna stay. This wasn't that
3:41
Speaker 1: many votes that this was, you know, after three times
3:44
Speaker 1: they said, okay, we're gonna adjourn now so people understand
3:47
Speaker 1: why there was an adjournment. There was a lot of
3:50
Speaker 1: members of Congress that have their family members there. Usually
3:53
Speaker 1: you elact the Speaker of the House, then you go
3:56
Speaker 1: and take your pictures with your family for your swearing
3:59
Speaker 1: in the pictures and all of that. Who lie your
4:01
Speaker 1: family's there. And there were a lot of members that, all, right,
4:04
Speaker 1: we're not getting anywhere on Tuesday. We know that, let's
4:08
Speaker 1: adjourn till Wednesday at noon. Let's go take these pictures
4:13
Speaker 1: and kind of do this with our family and have
4:15
Speaker 1: this moment in our personal careers or we're becoming members
4:18
Speaker 1: of Congress. But there's a lot of people that say, Okay,
4:21
Speaker 1: this could be bad news for Ken mccarthury because it
4:23
Speaker 1: gives more time for people behind the scenes to have
4:26
Speaker 1: conversations that maybe they couldn't have had while they were
4:29
Speaker 1: still all sitting there on the floor of the House.
4:32
Speaker 1: I know it's it's a real steam because for the
4:36
Speaker 1: past century, every speaker has been able to swear in members,
4:45
Speaker 1: or every new speaker has been able to swear in
4:48
Speaker 1: members right away, and they've been able to gather with
4:52
Speaker 1: their small children in their spouses on the floor and
4:58
Speaker 1: these members were weren't able to do that this time around,
5:03
Speaker 1: which the shame. But look, one of the things that
5:07
Speaker 1: I was telling some reporters, I'm like, this is kind
5:10
Speaker 1: of interesting. Uh. You get to tell sort of new
5:13
Speaker 1: members and some new reporters it usually isn't like this. Yeah.
5:18
Speaker 1: When when I January sixth happened, it was sort of
5:22
Speaker 1: similar in the sense of it usually isn't like this,
5:25
Speaker 1: and you know, this is this is where we are today. Yeah.
5:28
Speaker 1: My guest with me is uh is carry biggest singer
5:31
Speaker 1: congressional reporter for the Washington Times. Carry. Let's talk about
5:34
Speaker 1: the politics of this now, Tip Rory. Rory, who who
5:38
Speaker 1: was there. He said, Look, the reason why I'm saying
5:41
Speaker 1: no to Ken McCarthy is I want there to be
5:43
Speaker 1: up or down votes on on basic things amendments. We
5:48
Speaker 1: haven't been doing this. Great example was this massive spending
5:51
Speaker 1: bill we just had that they rammed down our throats.
5:54
Speaker 1: They wouldn't let us separate things out and debated things
5:56
Speaker 1: on it their merit. A great example of that when
6:00
Speaker 1: it comes to the merit was the Ukraine funding. He said, Look,
6:04
Speaker 1: I support Ukraine against Russia, but I think we should
6:07
Speaker 1: have a grand debate on the funding for Ukraine. It
6:10
Speaker 1: shouldn't be thrown into this omnibus spending bill the way
6:13
Speaker 1: that it was just done. And he said, this is
6:15
Speaker 1: the problem with that he has. He wants these things
6:18
Speaker 1: to be debated on their own merit. There's a lot
6:21
Speaker 1: of people in America that hear that and go, okay,
6:24
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Chip Rory's a guy that said, all right,
6:27
Speaker 1: I'm going to nominate Jim Jordan on the second ballot,
6:29
Speaker 1: which is what he did, saying I should say excuse
6:32
Speaker 1: me on the third ballot, which is what he did.
6:34
Speaker 1: And he's saying, I'm I think the American people are
6:36
Speaker 1: ready for transparency back in government. I'm not here making
6:40
Speaker 1: ridiculous demands for me to sit on certain committees or
6:43
Speaker 1: things like that. I'm saying, we need to go back
6:45
Speaker 1: to how do we pay for this and where's our
6:48
Speaker 1: money going? I want transparency and government. Is that where
6:52
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan can big up some steam in the early
6:55
Speaker 1: morning hours an overnight Tuesday and the Wednesday. Maybe because
6:59
Speaker 1: that a similar reason that I heard from uh Ralph
7:04
Speaker 1: Norman of South Carolina. He does not like the spending
7:08
Speaker 1: problems that we have seen very recently and that is
7:12
Speaker 1: what's keeping him a no on McCarthy as well. Another
7:16
Speaker 1: issue too, by the way, Ben is uh, you have
7:20
Speaker 1: a number of of these holdouts, number of these conservatives.
7:24
Speaker 1: They don't like the whole idea that you have Republican
7:28
Speaker 1: leadership who uh kind of gets involved with these primaries
7:33
Speaker 1: and they put their money down and they onto a
7:37
Speaker 1: winners and losers. They sort of pick who they would
7:40
Speaker 1: like to push forward as opposed to just staying out
7:44
Speaker 1: of the primaries altogether. And we saw that in the
7:48
Speaker 1: Upper Chamber with miss McConnell and a number of of
7:53
Speaker 1: these conservatives who ended up kind of squeaking through or
7:57
Speaker 1: even overwhelmingly making it through. They saw how the money
8:01
Speaker 1: was us spent this time around as far as Goop
8:04
Speaker 1: leadership in the House, and they're sort of upset about
8:07
Speaker 1: that as well. You know, when you look at McCarthy,
8:09
Speaker 1: he did make a statement to CNN where he said
8:12
Speaker 1: there is no scenario where I drop out. He really
8:16
Speaker 1: seemed to I think um mismanaged this vote. Early on
8:21
Speaker 1: in the day, he had meetings with some of those
8:23
Speaker 1: that said they were gonna be nos. He went to
8:25
Speaker 1: the floor knowing he didn't have the votes to become
8:29
Speaker 1: the speaker, and he basically said, well, no one else
8:32
Speaker 1: does either, so I'm going to get this by default.
8:35
Speaker 1: That backfired. Was this a big miscalculation for him? Well,
8:41
Speaker 1: he was hoping from what I understand that he was
8:45
Speaker 1: apparently making a deal with some Democrats that that they
8:50
Speaker 1: would simply just leave the floor and lower the threshold
8:54
Speaker 1: right where he wouldn't where he wouldn't need two hundred
8:57
Speaker 1: and eighteen votes. Maybe explained explain that aspect of this vote,
9:02
Speaker 1: because this is something that that Kevin McCarthy was also
9:05
Speaker 1: thinking about. From what I was told that they were saying, look,
9:07
Speaker 1: if this did go to one hundred votes, eventually some
9:10
Speaker 1: Democrats would lead because of like, look, we know we're
9:12
Speaker 1: not gonna get it. That would lower the threshold on
9:14
Speaker 1: the vote count, so therefore you could get it. Explain
9:16
Speaker 1: at the math on that and that strategy, because it
9:19
Speaker 1: very well could come into play on Wednesday. So apparently,
9:24
Speaker 1: h you know, like a McCarthy was making a deal
9:30
Speaker 1: with Democrats to leave the floor at some point and
9:33
Speaker 1: lower the threshold from two eighteen to a number that
9:37
Speaker 1: he could actually attain. However, you know, you had a
9:43
Speaker 1: number of these conservative Republican holdouts, these anti Kevin McCarthy
9:48
Speaker 1: types who caught wind of this, and they ended up asking, like,
9:53
Speaker 1: you know, squad members like AOC say, hey, what's this
9:57
Speaker 1: about you guys leaving the floor, and and these AOC
10:01
Speaker 1: types are like, uh, we had no plans to do that. So,
10:05
Speaker 1: you know that kind of blew up in his face. Well,
10:08
Speaker 1: let's talk about if he doesn't get these votes. I mean,
10:11
Speaker 1: they say it's an all out war now, but if
10:13
Speaker 1: you don't have the votes, you don't have the votes.
10:15
Speaker 1: Is there real talk now about coalitioning behind a Jim
10:18
Speaker 1: Jordan or would he still be short? And then do
10:21
Speaker 1: you get yourself in a situation where there's a moderate
10:23
Speaker 1: that all of a sudden comes out of this um?
10:27
Speaker 1: You know, I asked you had a Bob Good Republican
10:31
Speaker 1: from Virginia, and he is once again a never Kevin
10:34
Speaker 1: McCarthy conservative, and he's the one who's always been talking about, oh,
10:39
Speaker 1: we have a candidate, we have a consensus candidate, and
10:42
Speaker 1: we're keeping this candidate, you know, mysterious until until the
10:47
Speaker 1: second round. And I asked him like, Okay, where is
10:50
Speaker 1: this mysterious candidate that you're supposed to unveil, and he
10:53
Speaker 1: dodged that question completely. So now we know that they
10:56
Speaker 1: never had a consensus candidate to begin with, or that
10:59
Speaker 1: person just dropped out. So as far as you can see,
11:03
Speaker 1: there is no consensus candidate as of now. Kerry, I
11:06
Speaker 1: want to ask you about the politics of this when
11:09
Speaker 1: it deals with Donald Trump. What's very interesting about the
11:12
Speaker 1: vote that we witnessed on Tuesday was the people that
11:15
Speaker 1: were saying no to Kevin McCarthy were very much the
11:18
Speaker 1: Maga Republicans, and yet Donald Trump has not said anything
11:23
Speaker 1: on his true social about this so far. He didn't
11:26
Speaker 1: seem to do anything really to help during the day
11:29
Speaker 1: that we know of Kevin McCarthy, he's kind of stepped back. Why.
11:35
Speaker 1: Very excellent question there, Ben. In fact, if you recall,
11:41
Speaker 1: Donald Trump did throw his support behind Kevin McCarthy early
11:46
Speaker 1: on for speaker okay, and he did sort of like
11:50
Speaker 1: do a deal with him in regards to you know, hey,
11:54
Speaker 1: you support me, I'll support you. However, very recently, as
12:00
Speaker 1: you very much mentioned, he has not said anything in
12:03
Speaker 1: regards to Kevin McCarthy's speakership situation. And I think it's
12:07
Speaker 1: because Trump has, you know, wants to be known as
12:11
Speaker 1: supporting a winner. Okay, and I spoke with Congressman Kent
12:16
Speaker 1: Buck about this. Ken Buck is a Colorado Republican and
12:21
Speaker 1: he thinks that this, you know, it may have helped
12:25
Speaker 1: McCarthy maybe in the beginning, but it may have backfired ultimately.
12:32
Speaker 1: And that's where he sort of stuck at this point. Yeah,
12:36
Speaker 1: stuck is a great way of putting it. Let's talk
12:38
Speaker 1: about Bobert and Matt Gags. They made it very clear
12:43
Speaker 1: early on they were not going to go for Kevin McCarthy.
12:46
Speaker 1: They kept asking for things that some people said was
12:49
Speaker 1: just unrealistic. Others said, look they didn't. You know, they've
12:53
Speaker 1: they've been trying to screw those two over for the
12:55
Speaker 1: Republican establishment for a long time. Didn't support them the
12:59
Speaker 1: way they shouldn't their reelection bids. Boboard almost lost her seat,
13:03
Speaker 1: uh in Congress. Matt Gates has kind of been hung
13:05
Speaker 1: out to dry, some say, others say, what's his own
13:07
Speaker 1: doing when you look at those two individuals and they say,
13:11
Speaker 1: this is just spite what's happening right now, and they're
13:14
Speaker 1: putting the you know, they're they're they're they're empowering the
13:17
Speaker 1: Democrats now with twenty people going for Jim Jordan's, can
13:22
Speaker 1: you really say that anymore about them? Are they maybe yeah,
13:25
Speaker 1: maybe they're maybe they're ultramagat right, But but are they
13:29
Speaker 1: more principal than maybe some of these other people are,
13:31
Speaker 1: and and honestly more than they thought they were going
13:33
Speaker 1: to be? Um Matt Gates, his vendetta against uh uh
13:41
Speaker 1: McCarthy is more personal than anything else. Explain it. Explain
13:45
Speaker 1: that because a lot of people don't know the history there. Okay, Uh,
13:51
Speaker 1: I think that that you have uh Matt Gates who
13:56
Speaker 1: just never really felt that he was supported by uh
14:01
Speaker 1: by McCarthy when when when he felt that he was
14:04
Speaker 1: under siege by a lot of the Democrats and as
14:09
Speaker 1: well and when he was an under under investigations exactly
14:13
Speaker 1: as well as uh Liz Cheney, when Liz Cheney was
14:17
Speaker 1: also attacking him as well. So so when you had
14:21
Speaker 1: the Democrats end Liz Cheney who was attacking him, uh,
14:25
Speaker 1: he didn't feel that, uh, that you had McCarthy who
14:29
Speaker 1: had his back, and he sort of like felt like
14:33
Speaker 1: McCarthy was start of stabbing him in the back. And
14:35
Speaker 1: then when like uh and then when elections start came around, uh,
14:41
Speaker 1: He pointed out, as I previously mentioned, that McCarthy was
14:45
Speaker 1: sort of giving uh well, start picking and choosing losers
14:49
Speaker 1: in the primaries, and that's where he ended up saying,
14:54
Speaker 1: you know what, I've had enough McCarthy. And that's where
14:57
Speaker 1: some of the history, off the top of my head
15:00
Speaker 1: kind of comes from. I want to ask you about this.
15:04
Speaker 1: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich did an interview with his
15:09
Speaker 1: good buddy over at Fox Business Channel, Larry Couglo a
15:13
Speaker 1: moment ago. This is what he had to say about
15:16
Speaker 1: this battle that were it's historic, one hundred year battle.
15:21
Speaker 1: We haven't seen this in a hundred years. Here's how
15:23
Speaker 1: he had put it, and I want to get your reaction.
15:24
Speaker 1: I was impressed that even when the rebels decided to
15:30
Speaker 1: consolidate around Jim Jordan, who of course had just nominated
15:35
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, the number of votes didn't change. They didn't
15:39
Speaker 1: get any new votes. So I'm looking to the third, fourth,
15:42
Speaker 1: and fifth ballots to see what's gonna happen. My guess
15:45
Speaker 1: is that McCarthy, in fact, will in the end be speaker.
15:49
Speaker 1: I wrote a newsletter recently pointing out that it was
15:52
Speaker 1: Kevin or Chaos. Because I mean, if for any reason
15:56
Speaker 1: the radicals were to somehow be able to drive him out,
16:01
Speaker 1: they would have established a precedent that anybody else can
16:04
Speaker 1: do the same thing. Lincoln warned about this in his
16:07
Speaker 1: first inaugural and said, the problem with secession is once
16:11
Speaker 1: you established that right, everybody can secede from everybody. Well,
16:15
Speaker 1: the five who started this fight have now given every
16:19
Speaker 1: other member of the House Republican Party the moral right
16:23
Speaker 1: to go out and find four friends and have the
16:25
Speaker 1: same chaos. And I think that's why the conference has
16:29
Speaker 1: been overwhelmingly solid, and they're still overwhelmingly solid even with
16:35
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan's name, and Jordan is certainly a very serious person.
16:40
Speaker 1: The numbers didn't change at all. They got nineteen, Kevin
16:43
Speaker 1: got two hundred and two. That means he's getting better
16:46
Speaker 1: than ten votes for every vote the rebels can put together.
16:49
Speaker 1: And I think they have no endgame. These people can't
16:53
Speaker 1: play tic tac toe. And I think that's part of
16:56
Speaker 1: the problem is they've gotten themselves that like the dog
16:58
Speaker 1: that caught the bus. They've gotten themselves in this position.
17:02
Speaker 1: They can't get out of it. And if Kevin is
17:05
Speaker 1: prepared to calmly and cheerfully wait them out. At some
17:07
Speaker 1: point their districts are going to start calling him and saying,
17:10
Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing? Why are you ruining
17:13
Speaker 1: the Republican Party. I got to ask this question. And
17:16
Speaker 1: you've been there a long time in Washington, Carry You've
17:19
Speaker 1: been covering this. You know, he said, at some point
17:21
Speaker 1: Americans will start calling saying, what are you doing? You're
17:25
Speaker 1: ruining the Republican Party. I disagree with that opinion, and
17:30
Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect from New English. I
17:33
Speaker 1: think the majority of Republican voters are would overwhelmingly supported
17:38
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan over a Kevin McCarthy. I think Kevin McCarthy
17:43
Speaker 1: is very much more the establishment GOP, the rhinos the
17:47
Speaker 1: quote swamp. I think there's a run that would call
17:50
Speaker 1: and say, get behind a Jim Jordan. But does he
17:53
Speaker 1: really have a chance in your opinion, or do you say,
17:55
Speaker 1: you know what, Nut's probably right at the end of
17:58
Speaker 1: this thing, Kevin McCarthy's still be a speaker. Um. I
18:03
Speaker 1: think that you had knew who has you know really
18:07
Speaker 1: forged this us this strong sort of relationship with McCarthy
18:12
Speaker 1: right now, And keep in mind you know Knew himself.
18:15
Speaker 1: I mean you had like a coup, so to speak,
18:18
Speaker 1: a political coup that, like you know, pretty much uh,
18:22
Speaker 1: he had to deal with back in his day when
18:24
Speaker 1: he was speaker. So you know, there's some sort of
18:27
Speaker 1: recollections going on in his mind when he had to
18:30
Speaker 1: sort of deal with these factions when he was a
18:35
Speaker 1: speaker back in his day. So I think that's kind
18:37
Speaker 1: of going on right now as far as he's a concerned.
18:40
Speaker 1: That being said, Uh, if you have enough people who
18:46
Speaker 1: end up falling away from uh McCarthy, and look some
18:50
Speaker 1: already are, then Jordan could very well uh end up
18:55
Speaker 1: getting enough votes. But until then, I think I do
18:58
Speaker 1: think the longer it goes on, it could very well happen.
19:02
Speaker 1: It's gonna be very interesting. I appreciate your time. Kerry Pickett,
19:06
Speaker 1: Senior Congression reporter at the Watching Times. Check her out.
19:09
Speaker 1: She's on Twitter and all the other social media platforms
19:11
Speaker 1: as well. Thank you for spending some time with us
19:13
Speaker 1: and explaining this to us as you're alive there in
19:16
Speaker 1: Dcake here. Thank you. Is obviously a historic day. It
19:22
Speaker 1: has not happened in a hundred years. There is no
19:24
Speaker 1: speaker the House right now because Kevin McCarthy did not
19:28
Speaker 1: get the votes needed to become the speaker. Joining me
19:32
Speaker 1: now to talk about the politics of this. The man
19:34
Speaker 1: that served in Congress with a lot of people involved
19:37
Speaker 1: in this scenario is former Congressman Doug Collins. Doug, I
19:42
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. Let's talk about how did we
19:46
Speaker 1: get to this point. I am still honestly shocked that
19:50
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy took this vote to the floor knowing he
19:55
Speaker 1: didn't have the votes to win somehow, assuming that he'd
19:58
Speaker 1: eventually just get there then clearly getting it wrong. Are
20:03
Speaker 1: you as shocked as I am by the political miscalculation here? Yes?
20:08
Speaker 1: And no, Ben, Ben, it's good to be on with you.
20:10
Speaker 1: I think you have to take it too far. Number one.
20:13
Speaker 1: Kevin has been wanting this job for so long, and
20:17
Speaker 1: he has been denied it once by a group that
20:20
Speaker 1: back then, frankly didn't they were. He let it go
20:24
Speaker 1: before it came to a vote or anywhere else, and
20:26
Speaker 1: he stepped aside. That's how we end up with Paul Ryan.
20:29
Speaker 1: I think at this point he has felt like over
20:32
Speaker 1: the past few years, he's done everything he possibly can do.
20:34
Speaker 1: If he'd raised more money than any speaker we've you know,
20:37
Speaker 1: any leader we've ever had. He elected most of these people.
20:39
Speaker 1: It's crazy, as some of these people who are voting
20:41
Speaker 1: against him now he actually helped to get elected elected.
20:45
Speaker 1: And I think he just did the point. I'm just
20:46
Speaker 1: simply saying, I've got no other place to go. It's
20:49
Speaker 1: either I go to the floor and I die on
20:51
Speaker 1: the floor, or you know, either way, that's the more
20:55
Speaker 1: you know, acceptable thing for him too. I am shocked
20:59
Speaker 1: that he didn't have more conversation. I thought he would
21:02
Speaker 1: have this if he was gonna have it locked up
21:04
Speaker 1: here to try to have it locked up before. But
21:05
Speaker 1: now you've gotten into a situation, Ben where you got
21:08
Speaker 1: people who it's really, frankly and not about policy anymore.
21:12
Speaker 1: It's about the fact that they simply just don't want
21:14
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy and they're willing to stick to the Gunden.
21:17
Speaker 1: As long as five of them hold out, Kevin can
21:19
Speaker 1: never become secret. Yeah, And it seems that the bullying
21:23
Speaker 1: on of Kevin McCarthy kind of like you're gonna step
21:26
Speaker 1: in line and I've got enough people around me that
21:29
Speaker 1: no one else is going to get this thing really backfired.
21:33
Speaker 1: I talked to one of the five confidentially and they said,
21:38
Speaker 1: the arrogance is what got him in trouble is he
21:41
Speaker 1: treated us like we were beneath him, and that because
21:44
Speaker 1: he had virtually virtually all the votes needed, that we
21:48
Speaker 1: would just shut up and go away, and they dug
21:50
Speaker 1: in even harder. Yeah, oh yeah, and it's brilliancy. This
21:54
Speaker 1: is where Republicans and Democrats are really different. Pelosi and
21:59
Speaker 1: the Democratic where hip have been doing this for years, um,
22:02
Speaker 1: you know, keeping their folks in line, threatening them with uh,
22:05
Speaker 1: you know, lack of resources, or threatened them with the
22:07
Speaker 1: primary or whatever, you know, and on our side, it's
22:10
Speaker 1: just that's just never been a case. And then when
22:12
Speaker 1: it has happened, you know, Republicans, you know, get upset.
22:15
Speaker 1: And I think what happened here is is Kevin you
22:19
Speaker 1: there's an old thing in life. You cannot negotiate with
22:22
Speaker 1: somebody who's willing to shoot the hostage. And by meaning
22:27
Speaker 1: that there's nothing you can do. You either give them
22:29
Speaker 1: what they want or they'll never agree to you. And
22:32
Speaker 1: I think that I think he just misread this with
22:34
Speaker 1: the five and probably a little bit more, probably eight
22:37
Speaker 1: and ten that just said, look, Ken, you're unless you
22:40
Speaker 1: give us exactly what we want, we underlying where don't
22:44
Speaker 1: trust you. And I think that's going to become the
22:46
Speaker 1: theme out of this is at the end of the day,
22:48
Speaker 1: they said, chip Freud said exactly that I don't trust you. Yeah,
22:53
Speaker 1: I don't trust you. And look, chip Frey, I want
22:55
Speaker 1: to be clear here because when he nominated Jim Jordan
22:59
Speaker 1: on that third ballot and gave his speech, he made
23:03
Speaker 1: it clear, we just want there to be transparency in government, which,
23:06
Speaker 1: by the way, as the majority of Republicans are going
23:08
Speaker 1: to listen to this, are gonna agree with us. He said, Look,
23:11
Speaker 1: I wanted there to be amendments, for example, that are
23:13
Speaker 1: voted on based on their merit, not crammed into one
23:16
Speaker 1: massive bill. He referred to the Ukraine Ukraine funding that
23:20
Speaker 1: was in the Omnibust spinning bill. He said that should
23:22
Speaker 1: have been debated on its own merit, Greek completely. And
23:28
Speaker 1: I think this is here's the problem. Some of what
23:30
Speaker 1: they want, okay, and this is some of the things
23:33
Speaker 1: that you're like you just said, are things that we
23:35
Speaker 1: should have been doing or have been in the rules before. Again,
23:37
Speaker 1: thus not trusting Kevin. We had seventy two hour prior
23:42
Speaker 1: filing on bills. We had some of this other stuff
23:46
Speaker 1: that is social move toward a more open amendment process, which,
23:50
Speaker 1: by the way, the big dark secret is members want
23:52
Speaker 1: that until it actually happens, and then it's it's really
23:55
Speaker 1: an interesting play after that because it actually requires a
23:58
Speaker 1: lot more time and effort than most of the members frankly,
24:00
Speaker 1: and I'm just being blood here, are willing to give.
24:02
Speaker 1: And but these are the problems that are out there
24:05
Speaker 1: that could Yeah, I mean couldn't they thought there's no reason.
24:08
Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm gonna say it being you and
24:10
Speaker 1: I thought about it. I ain't so sick of the
24:12
Speaker 1: Republicans and the Democrat acting as a September thirtieth as
24:15
Speaker 1: a shock. That's when the budget is us. That's when
24:17
Speaker 1: you got to have a spending bill. But why don't
24:19
Speaker 1: you start in February getting it done? And instead they
24:23
Speaker 1: run it late because it controls as long as the
24:25
Speaker 1: later it is the leadership gets to decide. That's where
24:27
Speaker 1: chipping them, I think, are right. Then it's left in
24:30
Speaker 1: it into this, you know, we go into this all
24:32
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the big bill about the motion to
24:34
Speaker 1: vay case. I'll give you a little secret here. It's
24:38
Speaker 1: might be breaking news on New shop we were back
24:41
Speaker 1: when they were trying to use that against John Bayner.
24:43
Speaker 1: We had heard and I cannot prove this, but we've
24:46
Speaker 1: heard it. I heard it from enough folks that the
24:48
Speaker 1: Democrats were had basically back channel to say, look, we're
24:52
Speaker 1: not going to allow this to happen, frankly because they
24:54
Speaker 1: didn't want it to happen to them. So again, this
24:57
Speaker 1: motion to vacates an idea that the sound really good,
25:01
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, you still got
25:02
Speaker 1: to bring it to the floor and you still got
25:04
Speaker 1: to people to vote for it. And granted they're in
25:07
Speaker 1: a much better position to do it now with four
25:09
Speaker 1: vote than say, back when we had thirty five vote margin.
25:12
Speaker 1: But again, these are things that then most people don't understand,
25:16
Speaker 1: and what they do understand is is that we want
25:19
Speaker 1: to see Republicans do something. We want to see them
25:21
Speaker 1: pass bills, we want to see them actually have conservative legislation.
25:25
Speaker 1: And right now we're cleaning the day two of a
25:28
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteenth Congress with Nancy Pelosi's splort staff
25:32
Speaker 1: and everybody else still in control of Congress. Yeah, you'll
25:35
Speaker 1: listen to those that kind of started this, and there's
25:37
Speaker 1: some and they have reason to be angry. You know.
25:40
Speaker 1: Represent Bobert barely won her reelection. She feels she was
25:43
Speaker 1: hung out to drive by the establishment. Matt Gates feels
25:47
Speaker 1: like he was disrespected and wasn't protected when people like
25:50
Speaker 1: Liz Chenney came after him and the investigations, and that
25:53
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy didn't do enough and they're sticking it to McCarthy.
25:56
Speaker 1: That's very clear. But Represented Bobert said this just moments
26:00
Speaker 1: ago on Fox News. I want you to hear what
26:02
Speaker 1: she had to say about Jim Jordan's saying he's the guy,
26:06
Speaker 1: and then I'll get your reaction. How do you see
26:08
Speaker 1: this ending? Can you see yourself voting for a consensus candidate?
26:11
Speaker 1: Can you vote for Steve Scalize for example. I'm voting
26:14
Speaker 1: for anyone who actually brings unity to the Republican Party
26:18
Speaker 1: and helps get our country back on track and we
26:20
Speaker 1: have to actually govern on the things that we campaigned
26:23
Speaker 1: right now. Our candidate is Jim Jordan. This is he
26:26
Speaker 1: is a fighter, He is a leader. He may not
26:28
Speaker 1: want it right now, but George Washington did not want
26:30
Speaker 1: to be president. He did what was right for his country.
26:34
Speaker 1: Jordan is the consensus candidate right now. He absolutely is.
26:37
Speaker 1: And every time that he speaks up to defend Kevin McCarthy,
26:40
Speaker 1: he actually just reaffirms why he would make a great speaker.
26:44
Speaker 1: And if you heard from him that he does not
26:47
Speaker 1: want it in any way, shape or form, what do
26:50
Speaker 1: you say. I have heard that from him, And if
26:53
Speaker 1: we have the numbers, then sorry, Jim Jordan, We're going
26:56
Speaker 1: to make you do it's right for the country. We
26:57
Speaker 1: love you, Okay. I mean, do you believe her? Or
27:01
Speaker 1: is she full of crap? I mean, how do you?
27:04
Speaker 1: I mean, is this say I barely won this my
27:06
Speaker 1: last election. I'm gonna go down and burn the place
27:09
Speaker 1: down the process. Well, I think it's I think it's Look,
27:13
Speaker 1: it's it's again. Anybody who's already voted against McCarthy has
27:17
Speaker 1: nothing to lose, Okay, because they've already set themselves outside
27:20
Speaker 1: over two hundred plus of their own members. They're gonna
27:23
Speaker 1: have trouble. You know. It's just that this is not
27:25
Speaker 1: going to go here. This, this bandate that was ripped
27:27
Speaker 1: open today is not going to heal anytime soon. The
27:31
Speaker 1: understanding part here is Jim Jordan, Ben I will tell
27:34
Speaker 1: you there's at least one hundred probable members, one hundred
27:37
Speaker 1: and twenty five members who will never vote for Jim
27:39
Speaker 1: Jordan for secrets period. It ain't happening. So when you
27:44
Speaker 1: say that, why because of just a history mainly because
27:49
Speaker 1: you know and I think mainly because going back through
27:52
Speaker 1: history and times that many in the conference are just
27:56
Speaker 1: not as uh as uh fightings spirit however you want
28:00
Speaker 1: to put it. And Jim does not built those relationships
28:03
Speaker 1: outside of the main part of his own committee or
28:07
Speaker 1: the other Freedom Caucus. There's a lot to do with
28:10
Speaker 1: This is the part that hard. It's hard for him extanding,
28:12
Speaker 1: but sitting in with Serius, sitting those conference friends, it
28:15
Speaker 1: is as much of a h is close to I
28:18
Speaker 1: want to say military because I'm in the military. It's different,
28:20
Speaker 1: but maybe a fraternity. It's it's you can be a
28:24
Speaker 1: part of a tourney but not know everybody. You can
28:26
Speaker 1: be a part of tourney but not really that many friends.
28:29
Speaker 1: Sometimes this is what Jim has been a great member
28:33
Speaker 1: at bringing up issues. He's a great member at investigating,
28:35
Speaker 1: but he's never desired to legislate, and he's never desired
28:39
Speaker 1: to leave the conference. He's desired to focus on investigations,
28:43
Speaker 1: to dig in and go after what he has wanted
28:46
Speaker 1: to investigate. There's a much bigger picture here when it
28:50
Speaker 1: comes to being Speaker of the House, and whoever gets
28:52
Speaker 1: this is in trouble. I mean they're they're in trouble.
28:56
Speaker 1: And that's where I'm going to ask you. You look
28:57
Speaker 1: at Kevin McCarthy's one of the thing for his long
29:00
Speaker 1: he has been alive and knew what the speaker was.
29:02
Speaker 1: You've got You've got a guy by the name of
29:04
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise who a lot of people know his name
29:07
Speaker 1: because unfortunately he was wounded in that attack when they
29:10
Speaker 1: were preparing for that that baseball game, the congressional baseball
29:13
Speaker 1: game several years back. He's liked by a lot of people.
29:16
Speaker 1: He's a survivor in that sense. They're close friends. And
29:21
Speaker 1: people keep saying, maybe he's the quote consensus candidate. If
29:26
Speaker 1: you say that Jim Jordan's will never get it and
29:28
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to move on from him. Is Steve Scalise,
29:31
Speaker 1: based on your time in Congress, probably that that one
29:34
Speaker 1: our best option right now. He may be, But my
29:38
Speaker 1: concern goes back to something that I heard just a
29:40
Speaker 1: few minutes ago, and that is, you know, from some
29:43
Speaker 1: of the five or six that have voted no consistently.
29:46
Speaker 1: You know, they said that if you just come, like
29:48
Speaker 1: if you go to the one vote on the most
29:50
Speaker 1: vacat or you go to this, then we'll vote for you.
29:53
Speaker 1: Um well, that may get to consent, that may get
29:57
Speaker 1: those on board, and you may keep the other two
29:59
Speaker 1: hundred simply because it's left four votes and they're they're
30:02
Speaker 1: tired of looking like they don't know what they're doing.
30:04
Speaker 1: But in over time, the more the next person gives
30:09
Speaker 1: to get those votes. There's a group of the other
30:12
Speaker 1: House members that are sitting there like the you know,
30:15
Speaker 1: the old sword of the particle son. Partical son comes home,
30:18
Speaker 1: everybody celebrates, but what about the son who stayed. And
30:21
Speaker 1: there's a lot a lot of members who are sitting
30:23
Speaker 1: there saying, look, we're here just to work. We've been
30:25
Speaker 1: doing the work ablaze from cameras and everything else, and
30:28
Speaker 1: you're giving everything to these who pitched a fit, and
30:31
Speaker 1: that's your problem. And look, I'm not trying to put
30:34
Speaker 1: down either side, but this is the reality and people
30:37
Speaker 1: need to take in the Republican Party. I'm sick of
30:39
Speaker 1: us doing the high mighty cloud waving stuff. We gotta
30:43
Speaker 1: be reality. We want to fight back against Democrats. We
30:46
Speaker 1: better get our craft together. Well, let me ask you this.
30:48
Speaker 1: Come noon Wednesday they reconvene. What happens then, in your gut,
30:55
Speaker 1: how long will it take? And do you believe that
30:57
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy will end up being the speaker? I think
31:01
Speaker 1: he is still has a chance. It will depend on
31:04
Speaker 1: how much he is able to give tonight. And also
31:08
Speaker 1: then it would also say, are those five or six
31:11
Speaker 1: philosophically opposed just to Kevin? If they are, he won't
31:14
Speaker 1: become a speaker. Well, and that's say it seems like
31:17
Speaker 1: those at least those five are pretty much how been.
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, we're gonna screw you. Just say, because
31:23
Speaker 1: you're the establishment, and and you better find this another candidate,
31:27
Speaker 1: because it ain't. We're not gonna give you your dream job.
31:30
Speaker 1: And look, maybe that's one of the problems of saying
31:33
Speaker 1: you want it so bad, as that people know just
31:34
Speaker 1: how bad you want it now it's just an issue
31:36
Speaker 1: of you want it this bad, we're gonna make sure
31:38
Speaker 1: you never get it. Yeah, that's the problem Kevin's had
31:42
Speaker 1: all alf And I just say this as someone who
31:44
Speaker 1: considers him a friend. Kevin has always had that problem.
31:48
Speaker 1: He was always to consist. If you if you remember
31:50
Speaker 1: back when they were the young gun Remember when remember
31:52
Speaker 1: when Republicans thought Kevin McCarthy, Paul's Line, and uh Eric
31:56
Speaker 1: Canner were the stars of the other unservatives. They were
32:01
Speaker 1: before they got I would say, corrupted by Washington. Yeah, yeah,
32:05
Speaker 1: I mean it was really interesting though, And what has
32:07
Speaker 1: happened is but but Paul, you know, Paul fell off
32:10
Speaker 1: because Paul again leading in a speakership job is almost impossible.
32:14
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is unknock. If you ever want to be
32:17
Speaker 1: I've always said this, if you ever want to be
32:18
Speaker 1: president of the United States America, you never want to
32:20
Speaker 1: be Speaker of the House because you'll never get the
32:22
Speaker 1: job exactly. It is as it's one of those things.
32:25
Speaker 1: So I mean, now, is there an opening now for
32:29
Speaker 1: an off? Not an off an unknown? Okay, because I
32:33
Speaker 1: want I want to be very careful with Republicans. Remember
32:35
Speaker 1: we got Denny Hassard this way, Okay, remind people of
32:39
Speaker 1: that because they don't remember the history, so quickly explain
32:44
Speaker 1: I will. That's a mess concern because we've got to
32:46
Speaker 1: go back in the or the back in the two
32:49
Speaker 1: thousand when we had one of our speakers, Um Livingston,
32:51
Speaker 1: I think was he was going to be speaker. Then
32:53
Speaker 1: he got caught in an affair, and they're coming along
32:55
Speaker 1: and and really nobody was out behind. Nobody could agree
32:58
Speaker 1: on who it was. And then all of a sudden,
33:00
Speaker 1: this sort of backbencher from Illinois who was sort of
33:03
Speaker 1: liked by everybody, remember my fraternity reference. He was sort
33:06
Speaker 1: of liked by everybody, go along, get along kind of guy.
33:10
Speaker 1: He was pushed up and was elected speaker. And if
33:13
Speaker 1: you go through those times and then of course the
33:16
Speaker 1: very ugly way he ended and what came out after
33:19
Speaker 1: his speakership and everything else. But also I reminded somebody
33:23
Speaker 1: today because they were giving Paul Ryan and John Bainard
33:26
Speaker 1: are all hard time. Remember Paul Ryan did not want
33:29
Speaker 1: to be speaker. He's just like Jim Jordan and that
33:32
Speaker 1: he didn't want to be speaker. It's not his giftedness
33:34
Speaker 1: and not where he wanted to be. And yet he
33:37
Speaker 1: took the job. And you know, some things I think
33:40
Speaker 1: he did very well. On some things I think he
33:41
Speaker 1: struggled with because he was still looking at an old
33:44
Speaker 1: school consensus. So folks you kind of be waried that
33:48
Speaker 1: speaker is a job that is more than just giving speeches.
33:53
Speaker 1: It's more than just you know, telling the Democrats to
33:56
Speaker 1: jump take a jump. It's actually a lot of administration.
33:59
Speaker 1: It's see a lot of planning, it's a lot of
34:01
Speaker 1: stuff you and it takes you away from things that
34:04
Speaker 1: you may want to do. That's why Jim wants to
34:06
Speaker 1: be take He took my old position as ranking number
34:09
Speaker 1: of Judiciary and he wants to be Judiciary chairman because
34:11
Speaker 1: that's his comfortable that's where he likes to be. You
34:14
Speaker 1: take that out. Jim doesn't go get to yell at
34:17
Speaker 1: people in the committee anymore. He has to say in
34:19
Speaker 1: the Speaker's office and control two hundred and twenty two
34:21
Speaker 1: Republicans to get things like the budget pass, the debt
34:24
Speaker 1: sailing done, and things like that. My guess to meet
34:26
Speaker 1: Doug Collins. He's got a great podcast. You can download
34:28
Speaker 1: Duck Collins Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Final question,
34:32
Speaker 1: noon you're there. If you were a member of Congress
34:35
Speaker 1: again and you were sitting there, how would you vote
34:38
Speaker 1: at noon tomorrow? I'd have father been knowing what I
34:44
Speaker 1: know right now with the situation like it is. I've
34:47
Speaker 1: already voted for McCarthy probably three times, because simply there
34:50
Speaker 1: was never the preparation. And again, and that's saying that
34:54
Speaker 1: I had got dropped in without even you know, having
34:56
Speaker 1: a chance to fix anything beforehand. Because right now, if
35:00
Speaker 1: they get mad at McCarthy, they'll get rid of McCarthy.
35:03
Speaker 1: But at a certain point in time, you got to
35:05
Speaker 1: fix four four votes. Think about that, man, four votes. Yeah,
35:09
Speaker 1: this isn't about can you get four people to like
35:12
Speaker 1: you who hate you? Probably not. And remember we've had
35:17
Speaker 1: some of those people, some of our members in the
35:19
Speaker 1: Republican Party have never voted for an appropriations bill, have
35:22
Speaker 1: never voted for some legislation. How are we supposed to
35:24
Speaker 1: get that done? They've never voted for Republican legislation. Yeah,
35:28
Speaker 1: I'll be spook to vote now. Yeah, great point, Doug,
35:31
Speaker 1: appreciate it as always. I'm sure we'll have you back
35:33
Speaker 1: again real soon. Sound good man, Thank you, Thank you, sir.
35:37
Speaker 1: Take a quick break, Ben Ferguson show moren't coming up, Doug.
35:40
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, my friend, thank you for coming on.
35:43
Speaker 1: Make sure you share this podcast with your family and friends.
35:46
Speaker 1: Write it's a five star review. We're gonna keep you
35:48
Speaker 1: up to date on this. Also, I'll be doing a
35:51
Speaker 1: special podcast so Senator Ted Cruise with his show Verdict,
35:54
Speaker 1: So make sure you download Verdict with Ted Cruz as
35:57
Speaker 1: I co host that podcast. Then three days a week,
35:59
Speaker 1: and I will see you back here tomorrow