Latest / The Bigger Stage w/ Matt Stone / Curiosity, Connection, and Collective Growth — with Stefaan van Hooydonk
Transcript
- MONO-BBR Pod - Prelaunch - Stefaan van Hooydonk === Matt Stone: [00:00:00] Welcome to Building Business Relationship . I'm Matt Stone. And before we officially launch, we're exploring what matters most when it comes to relationships in business and life. These early episodes are about testing ideas, learning from guests, and hearing what you think belongs in the conversation. Remember the podcast launches in 2026, but before then, we're gonna have a lot of great pre-launch conversations. This is one of them, so please listen in, share your thoughts. And together, let's help shape what this becomes so it can be both entertaining and useful to you . Today I'm talking with Stefaan van Hooydonk. He's one of the world's leading voices on workplace curiosity. He's the author of two count 'em, two fantastic books, The Workplace Curiosity Manifesto, and his most recent book, which I have right here called Curiosity: The secret ingredient for success in personal and professional growth. Before founding the Global Curiosity Institute, Stefaan served as Chief Learning [00:01:00] Officer for companies like Royal Phillips, Cognizant, and Saudi Aramco to name a few. These days, he's helping leaders and teams build their curiosity muscles, turning them into a real competitive edge in times of change. And I'm also honored to call Stefaan a friend, so thanks for taking a few minutes to talk to me Stefaan. Stefaan van Hooydonk: Thanks, Matt. It's uh, it's lovely to be here with you again. Matt Stone: It always is. I'm, I'm absolutely delighted. Let's just go back, um, looking back, what's a business relationship that really changed maybe the trajectory of your career or had a big impact on your career and your life? Stefaan van Hooydonk: I've been, I've been thinking the entire day about this question and a lot I have a lot of people who've kind of helped me along the way. Probably the biggest one who was really early on in my career when I was studying in Paris [00:02:00] and I met the head of ING Bank. He was the uncle of a friend, and we got to know each other. I was just studying Chinese at the time and he had been working in Hong Kong and uh, he was now in Paris, being the chief there, and he kind of stuck out his neck to get me an internship in his company. And it didn't work out, so he contacted a business relationship of him, a consulting company in Hong Kong, and kind of, he went over and above to get me an internship in Hong Kong. And that was so remarkable, such a role model for me that since then I've been also trying to kind of pay back to all interns that come to me. I every time say, yes, I'm going to help you and I'll design something and, um, and because it was such an important thing for me because he launched my career really. Matt Stone: Wow. Do you remember, what you felt when, when he did that? What was the, what was the aha moment for you? [00:03:00] How did it shift your thinking at the time? Stefaan van Hooydonk: I think the moment when he invited me to his really fancy, fancy office, he got his 19th century full of chandeliers, invited me as this, this young student who, who hardly had a suit, uh, to come to, uh, to, to his office. And he says he apologized. He said, I couldn't get you an internship at ING Bank Hong Kong, but you know what, I'm going to help you. And I probably didn't realize it at the time because he was this, I was in awe of this kind of important person sitting in front of me. But later on I realized how, how big a stretch it would, it was easy, but still he had to do it. You know, he had to lean in. He could have said, sorry, next. Uh, but he says, no, I'm going to help you. And um, I just wish more people do that. Matt Stone: You know, there's an, there's a, I've noticed there's a, there's sort of an arc to a [00:04:00] career and a life, and there are certain people who they get to a point of success and power and influence and, and they're, they're already making good money. The only thing left for them that's truly meaningful is knowing that they're helping someone else. Come up that, that, you know, and if you don't realize that and you keep chasing the money and power, which you already have a lot of, um, you know, you're just not as, you're missing something, but maybe you don't know what it is. And I've just seen that there are, I've seen people who get to great levels and the ones who really are the most powerful to me are the ones who get that it's by giving it away that they get to appreciate what they, what they have. Stefaan van Hooydonk: And that was maybe exactly the, the mind, the, the mindset that, um, that Jack, the person I was talking about, that Jack had. I have enough now, it's my payback time [00:05:00] now. I, I need to help next generation. Now. I, I have it. I can, I have the power to help other people and I'm going to make good use of that power rather than just sticking to it and doing things all over again and, uh, and not lean in. And that's important. Thanks for sharing. Matt Stone: Well, thank you. That's a beautiful story. I am already thinking about people in my life that have had that, that go the extra mile and you, at the time you think, why is this person doing this for me? Um, and I guess the question is why not do it for you? Stefaan van Hooydonk: mm. Matt Stone: Maybe you're worth it. So, you've written books on curiosity. You're doing curiosity talks. You're helping companies and leaders lean into curiosity. Talk about what the, what relationship there is between relationships and curiosity from your [00:06:00] work and your life and experience. Stefaan van Hooydonk: I think that's a great question. I think curiosity is the bridge between people. 'cause when we're genuinely curious about another person we lean in, we're interested. In person's experiences, their ideas, even their fears and their hopes. Um, and, and that signals respect when we're in that zone. Um, so we're listening, not to respond, but to understand we're listening. Not to fix, but to learn, you know, to, to become a better version of ourselves and not to show off. I call that the difference between being interesting and interested. We're not trying to show off ourselves. We're trying to be interesting. The opposite, the lack of curiosity is, is blocking all this. Is somehow we're in a state of judgment. We're in a state of jumping to conclusions. We're in a state [00:07:00] of blocking new ideas when they don't fit our way of looking at the world. I think the best collaborators and leaders in my research have been those people who create space between people and to keep that space open and to keep that space open long enough for people to join. Uh, and I think that's a great, uh, uh, it's an underrated skill yet, or an underrated capability yet in organizations, um, but it's really the magic that makes relationships go instead of being transactional, go transformational, really. Matt Stone: I was just sitting here visualizing the reciprocal quality of a relationship, but also that it has this two-way quality of, if I invest in the relationship for the relationship's sake, I am more [00:08:00] inclined to pay attention to you and be curious about you about you, which will then create more of a relationship and more learning. So it's interdependent. It's like if I'm too transactional in my relationship orientation, then I'm all about what I'm gonna get, what I'm driving. You know, we hear the business Stefaan van Hooydonk: mm. Matt Stone: I'm driving results, but if I'm driving, what are you doing? You're just a prop, you're just a tool for me to use and Stefaan van Hooydonk: Yep. Yep. Matt Stone: I'm, I'm, I'm not even using even a fraction of what you're capable of offering, because I'm not even asking. Why do you think it's such an underutilized, underemphasized priority in business? Stefaan van Hooydonk: Well, I think companies are just starting to understand its importance. Many leaders, I'm talking to many, so many leaders [00:09:00] understand it and they want to run with it, but still, even more leaders think it's nice to have something that we might do when we have the time. Um, and often we don't understand the value that curiosity has on decision making, on innovation, on inclusivity, in productivity, um, resilience, adaptability. So when I'm asking leaders, do you think curiosity is a good thing for an organization? 90% say yes. When I'm asking them the same leaders, how are you inviting curiosity into your team? Only 50% say, yes, I do. So it's a bit of a theory in practice. In theory I say, yes, it's a great thing. In practice, i'd rather have some other team deal with it because I'm focused on efficiency. I don't have time for this or I'm too stressed. And, um, so, um. I think often we, we confuse curiosity for asking too many questions or chasing novelty. [00:10:00] While in my view, a real curiosity is not about the quantity of questions, it's about the quality of attention. How much am I allowing my own view to be changed by a new perspective? How much am I ready to stay with uncertainty? How much am I ready to say I don't know? You know? Um, yeah. That, Matt Stone: Hmm. Stefaan van Hooydonk: does that, does that make sense? Matt Stone: Yeah, I mean it's, it's like radical humility, Stefaan van Hooydonk: Hmm. Matt Stone: Right? i mean, and even in your book you talk about that, role of humility in cultivating curiosity and, and relationships. And I, I kind of see relationships as a method of developing, deepening and maintaining your humility. if I have a relationship goal in addition to [00:11:00] what other objective that I have to get done, but that the relationship is in and of itself a worthy objective, a better relationship in addition to the other business objectives, then it requires me to practice more humility that you might have something important to say that I, maybe I don't have all the answers that maybe I don't know everything. Stefaan van Hooydonk: And I think, I think the ultimate question there in my view is what can I do to be a better, dot, dot, dot, and you can kind of fill in the relationship there. What can it be to be a better partner or a better boss, or a better subordinate or a better neighbor for that matter. Um, and talking about radical humility, this is a question we often don't like to ask. What can I do to be a better, uh, intimate partner? What can I do to be a better father type of things, you know? Um, and if you are ready for that question, you're really into [00:12:00] curiosity. Matt Stone: So listen, um, this is a short conversation and if you're willing to come back when we launch the podcast and be a part of the show, uh, the full length show, we are gonna have in-depth conversations. We're gonna have panel commentary and punditry and all of the rest. Uh uh, so it's gonna be fun. I'd love to have you as part of that, but just for now, I guess the Stefaan van Hooydonk: Hmm. Matt Stone: question I wanted to ask you was, what is the perspective that leaders are missing the most in the workplace that would be the real game changer around curiosity and relationships, that you wish you Stefaan van Hooydonk: Well, Matt Stone: change? I. Stefaan van Hooydonk: I would love for organizations to start measuring curiosity as much as the way we measure performance and efficiency, that we measure not only what people do and what they know, but also how they activate what they don't know [00:13:00] and how they grow and how they learn. Wouldn't it be great to have performance discussions where some questions are like, how much did you learn from a subordinate or , when is the last time that you changed your perspective on something really important? Um, or how much space are you creating in your team for, for exploration? And if you start doing that, if you start with those KPIs and with those questions, start embedding curiosity in your culture, in your processes, how you hire people, how you promote people, it would lead to an innovation culture. Businesses will learn faster, will become more resilient, more adaptive, more open, um, and that's what I love to see more with, uh, more with companies I think. Matt Stone: And what a good time to do it, especially with AI coming in. What are humans gonna be for, if not the uber creative process of collaborating around innovation with [00:14:00] AI replacing so many processes? The thing I love about this topic that I, I wanna pull the thread on so much more, longer and in depth with you is this thing that keeps coming up as you're talking, which is, If I trust you, we will be more curious. I'm more curious about you. If I know and trust you a little bit better. I'm more open to what you have to say. I'm not worried about you attacking me because we have trust and I'll be more curious and if I'm more curious with you, I will build more trust with you. I guess that was the loop that I was Stefaan van Hooydonk: Yeah. Matt Stone: curiosity is Stefaan van Hooydonk: Yeah. Matt Stone: The energy and the driver of building the kind of relationship that you need to foster more curiosity, openness, and the kind of collaboration that you're talking about. Stefaan van Hooydonk: And then when you do that, you suddenly have collective curiosity, which is so powerful. Matt Stone: Collective curiosity. [00:15:00] I love that. That's a perfect place to end. We are gonna dive into collective curiosity, not just the individual, but the collective, for sure. Stefaan, thank you so much for taking a few minutes to to, to tantalize us with a preview of what's to come. Stefaan van Hooydonk: It's been a pleasure, Matt. It's uh, every time you're such a great question host. Thank you. Matt Stone: My curiosity is peaked. And with that, thank you for listening or watching to Building Business Relationships . This pre-launch phase is all about discovery, so if something sparked your interest, I'd love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, ideas, or great suggestions, and help us shape the conversations to come. And of course, subscribe. So you'll be the very first to know when we officially launch. Thanks, and we'll see you next time.