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S2 E24 : Author Aaron Ryan Talks : AI and Creatives · Tango Talks : The Human Experience

• Author Aaron Ryan : Well Angela was flashing us too. I mean, like, come on, it's this this is like the most entertaining show ever. Tango: Well y you know, she is from she is from Jersey, so you know, you do get that kind of stuff from those Jersey girls, you know what I mean? you know, sometimes I have to wrangle her. What's that? Author Aaron Ryan : You saw that too though, Angela, with the You saw that too with like the the blips and the Yeah. Tango: Yeah. It was like ⁓ it was all kinds of flash and there was all different colors and it looked like it actually looked like the horizon for a minute and then it was something else. I don't know. All right. So I think we picked for tonight for our ⁓ episode is the the threat of AI to creatives. For some reason this year we've had a lot of ⁓ guests on and it seems to be a popular Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. Yeah yeah. So weird. All right. Tango: topic is you know AI and all sorts of things. We had an AI security guy on here a couple months ago. But ⁓ so I think we'll we'll we'll stick with that topic and ⁓ you know, but let's start off with some of the basics here. So what got you started as a writer? Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. Well, ⁓ a long time ago I have ⁓ I have really kind of three origin stories. So I mean like the first one really simple. I read Lord of the Rings, absolutely blew my mind when I was a kid. ⁓ the world building, the richness, the stakes, the character development, the ⁓ the storyline, ⁓ the the prose, the narrative. It was so all inclusive and just absolutely spellbinding at every turn. I mean, huge fan, total dork. Tango: Well, Author Aaron Ryan : I have to clarify, this is not the one ring. See, I'm still here. Still here. ⁓ this actually has my family's Yeah. My it's my family's my wife and my son's names engraved on the inside. So ⁓ Yeah, so Lord of the Rings, that was one. ⁓ I was in a young author's club when I was a kid that I completely forgot about. Mom sent me a news article that she had kept, and I you know, you read it and you're like all these memories come flooding back. You're like, ⁓ my gosh. Of course I'm an author. Tango: I've got one of those. ⁓ that's nice. Ha ha. Author Aaron Ryan : And then ⁓ second grade Mrs. Walker gave ⁓ hi Mrs. Walker, she gave everyone a ⁓ a second grade ⁓ you know assignment to write a short novella. And I wrote a short novella with construction papers around front and back, college rule, three hole punch paper, crude stick figure drawings, and I called it the electric boy. And I remember I remember getting it, you know, and holding it in my hands and and flipping it around and showing people like, look what I made, you know, look at this. Tango: Ha ha ha. Author Aaron Ryan : And it was just it was such a proud moment that I made something that would last. ⁓ and that's what books are, that's what stories are. You and and voiceovers as well. You're writing or recording something that will last. And I I love the legacy of that. Tango: Yeah. Mm. That's awesome. So you say so you do voiceovers? Author Aaron Ryan : I do, right behind me. I had a digital background behind me with all my books. ⁓ but this is my voiceover studio back there. And then I usually have a ⁓ a a furry fourteen and a half year old mascot sitting on that chair right there. ⁓ but she decided it was sunny enough to go outside right now. so ⁓ but yeah, I'm I'm the voice of United Healthcare, for example, so and lots of Fortune five hundred companies and Ma and Pa stores, ⁓ web videos, e learning, corporate explainers. Yeah. Tango: Ha ha ha. I'm gonna send you I'm gonna send you emails and be like, I think I just heard your voice. Author Aaron Ryan : Video games even, audiobooks. Yeah, I love getting those. It's really cool to say to hear someone say, I heard you out in the wild. It's very cool. Tango: Ha ha ha ⁓ That's it. So what's what's the what's so ⁓ so today, what is your favorite book that you've written? Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ my gosh. That's such a hard question to answer because yeah, I I mean I I'm so proud, I'm so grateful for all of them, but there's really three. And I don't know I'm fickle, you know, it it can vary from day to day, but I absolutely love the end Omega, which is the final installment in the end ⁓ Christian dystopian saga. I I it's just filled with redemption and power, ⁓ and and resolution. I love Tango: I know. Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ forecast. It's a 9-11 historical fiction thriller where a man is struck by lightning and is endowed with powers he doesn't know what to do with. He ends up completely preventing 9-11 entirely. ⁓ He's actually living in 2001, by the way. ⁓ And then The Phoenix Experiment is a young adult dystopian novel I wrote after reading Suzanne Collins' ⁓ Sunrise on the Reaping. And it's the first time I decided to write in first person present tense. Tango: ⁓ my goodness. Author Aaron Ryan : and include prose, ⁓ poetry i in my writing. And it turned out really good. I mean I've I'm really I I'm proud of it. It just it turned into a great novel that is ⁓ Yeah, well thank you, thank you. Actually all of my books are my favorite, thank you. No. Just just those three are at the top. Tango: Hey, there's not there's nothing wrong with pat yourself on the back, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. Very nice. Well, you have quite a selection of books too. I was reading some of your background here and how many books have you actually written? I mean, there's there's several here. Author Aaron Ryan : Well, I've published ⁓ fifty. I just published my fiftieth on aug ⁓ May eighteenth. ⁓ but you know, if you whittle down, so for example, the end is a trilogy. There's ⁓ there's ⁓ three books. That was dumb, redundant, of course, because I just said trilogy. ⁓ What's a trilogy? ⁓ but there's three books and then there's an all in one version of that book, and then there's a cliff notes version of that book. There goes the camera. ⁓ Tango: ⁓ my goodness. Three of them in there. Yep. Uh-huh. I can't watch it. We're so high class here. I think so. We are just falling apart here. Author Aaron Ryan : So I swear there's gremlins in here today. ⁓ yeah, do you Do you want to ask it again? You want me to answer again? You like you're gonna edit this together? Tango: Yeah, we're gonna edit this for sure at the end. I'm sorry, we're while you were talking, I'm trying to listen and I can't. And you're dangling in the air. Swimming swinging in front of your face. Author Aaron Ryan : No, you're fine. Well, I think I saw when your camera swiveled it caught a sh ⁓ a little ⁓ shot of the back, and I saw a ⁓ a long hair a long eared creature giggling ⁓ maniacally with a white a white mohawk on the back, and he looked like he had chicken after midnight, so and was a little wet. There you go. Yeah. I think I found our problem. Tango: Yeah, so you know At this point in time it wouldn't surprise me. It really would not. But fi I don't understand how you've had how how you find the time to write fifty books. I mean, I'm gonna still say this, you don't look like you're old enough to have written fifty books. Yeah, that's it right there. Yeah Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ let me let me get closer and show you the gray in there. ⁓ No, it's it's really it's not an issue of finding the time, it's an issue of making the time. And and that's something that I actually coach ⁓ writers on, is it really is not a finding time thing. It's always making the time. And I've got videos where I, you know, I talk about devoting ⁓ the the two hours or the one hour per day, even during your ⁓ on time or off time. ⁓ so You know, fifty books, yes. I published my fiftieth on May 18th, but you know, for example, I've got a trilogy called The End, and there's ⁓ three three of those books are published. Then there's an all-in-one book, so that's a fourth book in that fifty, and then there's a cliff notes edition of that of that version, ⁓ of that trilogy, so that's a fifth book. ⁓ Dissonance is a six book saga, and there's an all-in-one, so there's a seventh, and then there's a ⁓ a clip notes version of that, so there's an eighth. But yeah, I've got, you know. Three kids' books here, three there, four thrillers, three ⁓ six other kids books, six voiceover ⁓ business books, a poetry book. I c I think apparently I publish in six sixes. I don't know why. No, I might want to change that. Ugh. Tango: Yeah. That's your lucky number must be. But that's I think that's that it's amazing. So what is I mean, it just sounds like there's such a variety too of of the style of books that you're writing. You know, it's not just ⁓ you know, your fantasy book, it's not just your ⁓ you know, the Lord of the Rings style, like you're not sticking to one thing in particular. How do you how do you literally manage all of that? Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ well I think I love the phrase adapt and overcome or the other phrase adapt or die. ⁓ and I think the more palatable you make yourself to audiences, ⁓ the more diverse your offerings, ⁓ the the longer you'll last, you know, the more you'll survive. And y there are people who you know, their niche Stephen King's niche is horror, ⁓ that's for sure. J.R. R. Tolkien's was fantasy, that's for sure. Suzanne Collins is young adult ⁓ dystopian, that's for sure. Tango: Okay. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ Tom Clancy is you know spy thrillers and in John Grisham his courtroom ⁓ dramas and and whatnot. I I like ⁓ I I like predominantly to write sci fi, you know, post apocalyptic dystopian, that's my wheelhouse. But I wrote kids' books Yeah, I love ⁓ Tango: I like those I I'm drawn to those type of you know, I love those type of shows and books and stuff too. So Author Aaron Ryan : They're phenomenal. I don't think I ever would have written kids' books but for having kids. Yeah, it's it's and I the Christian ⁓ the end is a Christian dystopian saga. I don't think I would have written that if were were I not a Christian. ⁓ so there's different things that draw upon life. I wrote a book called You Are My Whole Earth, A Daddy's Love for His Sons. I wrote that because I'm a daddy. And ⁓ I wrote ⁓ Unworthy with the uncrossed out. It's a memoir of my ⁓ relationship and proposal and marriage to my wife Janine. ⁓ wouldn't have written that if you know, I was either truly unworthy or unmarried. So yeah, you just draw upon for nonfiction you draw upon life events and and ⁓ lived experiences and lessons. Tango: All right. Right. You're writing what you know. Yeah. So yeah. So back to ⁓ like this whole AI thing. What's your thoughts on the whole AI and creators and how people are using it? Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ That's my thoughts. Tango: Thank you. We run well me and Angela. Well, he's a writer. Of course he's gonna be Well, I know, but you know, a lot of people still use it. I know people that are using it that like to do their job, you know. Right, yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : Right. But I'm a writer, Angela, and a voiceover artist, so I'm feeling the crunch on both sides. ⁓ so I I have no problem with assistive AI, for example. So there's assistive and generative AI. Assistive AI is, you know, spell check and ⁓ and and th thesaurus and things like that, or finding a better way to paraphrase what you're saying or or idea development for a book. ⁓ using Grok, hey, Grok, give me a few ideas for this book, ⁓ or Claude or Tango: Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : you know, ⁓ chat GPT or any those things. Give me a few ideas for this book. I don't have any problem with that. It's when you start substituting and sacrificing this God given gift of creation that is inbuilt with you, and sacrificing that and going y you know, and outsourcing that to a chip, I find that really alarming that people would do that. ⁓ I find it sad that people are willing to just trade and forfeit this this remarkable gift and give it to a machine. ⁓ and that's generative AI. So it looked like Angela has turned into AI right now, so we wish her well and Tango: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think Antilles being scanned and digitized at the moment. I yeah, what is going on? Something is going on. I don't know what ⁓ my goodness. Something is going on. Yeah. I think yeah, I think I I think we have too many Alexa devices at our house here. I think there's just way too many. I think she's finally had enough of hearing us caggle on the podcast shows and Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah, she resistance is futile. Resistance is futile. I think she just jacked into the Matrix actually, so you know Kung Fu now, which is good. Tango: She's done. I agree with you on this whole AI thing because so we run a print company together, plus I run another ⁓ another company that deals with ⁓ like we do signs and awards and and stuff like that. And it's just more and more people are bringing in AI created stuff, thinking that you know they just developed you know this whole wonderful concept and they want us to print from it's like, yeah, it's great design, but it's Author Aaron Ryan : Might be Yeah, I mean just Tango: I can't do anything with it. If the resolution's so low, I can't blow it up and make anything out of it. I I don't have to recreate it anyway. So you should have just come to me to begin with and I would have created you ready to go print ready artwork. But now I've got to charge you to try to create something that looks like what you just bought me. Author Aaron Ryan : Right. One of the greatest phrases I ever heard, I wish I could have gathered who it was, but it was an editor, she posted this on LinkedIn, and she said, ⁓ sh it was an admonition to writers, and she said, Are you using AI to sculpt your work? If so, stop that. I cannot bring your voice out if it wasn't there to begin with. And I I think it's such a revolutionary pinpoint indicting phrase and kind of a referendum on our time because what AI is being used for in the authoring industry is ⁓ with voiceovers it's being used to to to generate voices and and to w I've been replaced. In many cases our income has dropped drastically because people are either forced to ⁓ you know, the producers that I've worked with are either gone because their higher ups have said, let's just use C dance to create our videos. We don't need you anymore. Or they've been instructed to use eleven labs, re-speecher, speech aloe, whatever. Let's no no longer use human voice talent. So I've lost great beloved relationships that I've had for years. And the quantity and quality of jobs has plummeted in voiceovers. So our income has been has plummeted. That's the author or the voiceovering side. The authoring side, it's pitting authors against authors. You used AI to write this. No, I didn't. Yes, you did. And it's watered down the quality of the offerings in the book ⁓ and novel marketplace because people are simply going to Claude or Chat GPT or any of these things. Tango: Ha ha ha. Author Aaron Ryan : having the write an entire novel for them, copy paste, they go to Midjourney, they have it create a cover, or even Grok create a cover, copy paste, they throw it up on Kindle and and they say they call themselves an an author. And they're not, they're a capitalist, and there's a huge difference. So it waters down all the offerings. Tango: Right. Yeah. See I I fear we've had quite a few guests on that. We've talked about this whole AI thing and I I think it's not I think it it's affecting a lot of creative ⁓ industries, you know, like I just say, you know, people coming in thinking that, you know, ⁓ you know, I I I I created this. Like did you create it or do you have some AI thing to create it for you? Well yeah, I I had Chat GPT it. I said, okay. I could tell. You can tell now the the the way the artwork looks A lot of the AI generated artwork all kind of looks the s it's all got that same tone to me anyway, it's got that same tone to it. You know what I mean? It's like it's it's definitely not what you normally see people bringing in or you know, I'd rather somebody just come in with a sketch and just say, Here, here's what I'm looking for. Can you do this? Absolutely. But it just makes it harder when they bring in this, you know, AI created thing and they're expecting you to recreate that exact same thing and print it on stuff. It's like, you know, I can but your art you know It's not gonna be free. You know what I mean? I I gotta charge you the time to cre to create that. And that's when we start losing customers because it's like, Well, I brought you artwork and you can't use it. But you didn't bring me artwork. Yeah, and I think that's a hard line too, because some people feel like they may not be creative as others, you know. So that is them being creative by saying, Okay, what if we do, you know, like can you tell me Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah, you didn't. Well Tango: Can you create this image? Can you create this logo? Can you carry the job and our job? Right. That's why we have that's why we have these businesses. You know what I mean? Come to us and we'll make it look professional for you. Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. I just think that some people, that's why, you know, a lot of our customers when they do that, they're like, okay, see, ⁓ that was my attempt at being, you know. Right. Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. It's a workaround. It's a shortcut. And life if we've if we've learned anything about human beings is we are so prone to shortcuts to get it precisely where we want to go in the quickest amount of time and with the least amount of cost. And so I absolutely get that human nature to gravitate towards the use of AI to get us where we want to go. But what it does is it costs us the humanity in that creation process and that's so it's such a travesty. But But what we're seeing in tandem with that is we're seeing the dumbing down of society with AI slop. We're seeing the abuse of the likenesses of people in in sex tortion. We're seeing it in cyberbullying. We're seeing it in in license and copyright and trademark infringement with actors in like sea dance videos like the Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise rooftop fight video that never happened. ⁓ like the Avengers Doomsday spoof trailers that are being created. ⁓ like the Super Bowl commercial that they made with the guy trimming the bushes and it's it's all a hundred percent AI. ⁓ there's a kid it's just it's rampant. It's a wild west of unregulated usage. Tango: Well it's funny get Yes. Me and my husband were just talking about the other day 'cause, you know, at night, you know, we we'll spend maybe an hour like on Facebook and just scroll through some stuff. But you can't you almost can't tell now, like, is that a real movie coming out? 'Cause I'd want to go see that, but you have to look at it 'cause like and we've caught a couple where like there was one that we're watching and it's like somebody's face and they turn and then there was like another face here. It's like well how do they not catch that? Because it's a that's Author Aaron Ryan : There's definitely anomalies. In the artwork side, one of the things that you'll see and and in the writing side, you know, there are telltale signs, there are dead giveaways for AI usage, like an ⁓ dash. An M-dash is a lengthened dash between two words. There's no space in between this word dash word. It's a dead giveaway for AI. in artwork though, you'll see ⁓ you know, used to see it, not as as much anymore, but you see melting faces. You see multiple fingers, you know, like six fingers, seven fingers on a hand. Tango: Right. Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ you'll see incongruous blending of one character into another. ⁓ either there's malformed ⁓ geospatial distances where they can't l how come they're this far apart, but when their legs are joined, his shadow of his foot is right here. And it's like, you know, AI doesn't get that stuff, but it's not far from getting it is the scary thing. Tango: Right. Right. Right. And I'm not gonna say I don't I've never used it. I use it on a daily basis, but I use it for like like you were saying, for ideas. Like I'll say, you know, give me four ideas with these elements in it. And then it gives me a starting point and I'll throw them in my graphics probe and go, Okay, I like parts of that, I like parts of that, and I like parts of that and I'll meld them together myself and come up with my own version of it, but it gives me 'cause sometimes I get stuck, you know what I mean? We Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. Tango: creative people, I I think we all get like stuck, like I don't know what to do next. And I use it for just like, you know, like, give me four ideas. I'll throw ⁓ out here. Okay, great. I'll work from there. Author Aaron Ryan : You know what would love to teach on? Off ramps. There's always an off ramp. And here's my example. So when I was writing my latest saga, it's called the Talisman Saga. It's a direct spin off of Dissonance, which is a an award winning Alien Invasion saga. Six books dissonance trilogy. Yeah. Well it's it turned out so well, but man, I was stuck in writer's block in the second book. I had nowhere to go. I didn't know I didn't know what to do with it. And so I sit I seriously said, okay, Kaibosh. Tango: Another book I'm gonna have to get now. Author Aaron Ryan : I'm gonna press pause on this. I'm gonna put it over here. And I was I you know, I spent enough time just beating my head against the wall, going, I I don't know what to do. It's literally writer's block with a capital ru and a capital blah. So I put it aside and I took an off ramp from fiction into nonfiction, and that's when I wrote my book for my boys, You Are My Whole Earth, A Daddy's Love for His Sons. And so it reminded me, taking that off ramp and writing that book, I'm writing about something that's that ⁓ is true to life. Something I'm passionate about. It reminded me this works, this works, and these work. And so, you know, I I get this book and I get it done. I'm like, okay. All right, let's do this. And then I go back to Talisman, and then I, you know, brrrr. It it everything resumes and it's fine. It's a reset button. Same thing. I had to do it again with talisman halcyon, which is the finale in that series, writer's block again. And then I think that's when I started writing ⁓ Tango: Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : my my memoir for myself and my wife, and then I come back into the land of fiction ready to go. But there's always a workaround to take a break, find a different way to to kind of accomplish your goals and and get back to it. Tango: I agree. I've done that on a couple why I think it looks so much nicer everything looks so much nicer on her monitor than my monitor. Author Aaron Ryan : Well, she's a woman. She's pretty. Come on. Tango: I am I am getting I am getting so gypped on this episode. Author Aaron Ryan : Tech. It works except when you need it to. Tango: ⁓ my goodness, you wouldn't mind have been here the other day last weekend where I I was throwing things over here. Angela went around the went around the back wall. She said, I'm just gonna sit here until he's done having his temper tantrum. We shall resume in just a few minutes. We need to take a break. So how do how do you see self publishing versus ⁓ traditional publishing? Author Aaron Ryan : All right. You get out of the way of the cyclone. I know how that works. ⁓ there's so many advantages to self publishing. ⁓ I'm self published by choice. Have I cr have I approached ⁓ pu both publishers and agents through through query tracker dot net? Yes. That's the portal that you go through to approach them and and pitch your book. ⁓ but ⁓ frankly, there's so many trade-offs. So as a as a self published author, I enjoy much quicker time to market. That's probably the one that means the most to me because I I'm very impatient by nature. And I ⁓ if I've written something that I love, I want to share it with people. You talk about fifty books. If if they were traditionally published, I probably would have ten to fifteen of those out right now. The other thirty-five would be in a queue somewhere. And I hate that. I just hate that. I want to get it out to the marketplace. So quicker time to market. I can command higher royalties per book. I retain all rights. I retain all creative control. I can choose my own branding. I can choose my own editing team. I can ⁓ Tango: ⁓ wow. Author Aaron Ryan : It just I can, I can, I can, you know, rather than walking through everything. It's there's just so many advantages to self publishing. And so when you here let me say this. Dissonance Volume One Reality has been has been adapted for the screen, it's being pitched to streaming networks right now. That book has done really well. So has the end series, the end alpha. If someone comes up to if a publisher came up to me and said, Hey, your book's been doing really, really well. We see the figures, we see the reviews, we see the you know, the premise and everything sounds great. Tango: Right. ⁓ that's cool. Author Aaron Ryan : Let us take it ⁓ to the next level and we will now republish your book under our banner. That's fine. I I would not be opposed to that. I'd be okay with that because it's already got an established ⁓ reputation, record, resume. So you know, it's okay, but but I'm not doing so much of a trade-off at that point because it's already been established and I already got it to market. Tango: Right. Right. I think my my son published a book a couple years ago and ⁓ he learned a lot ⁓ like what not to do, how to do it differently the second time around. He learned so much. But he wrote a book, not knowing that his father does not read, you know, anything thicker than you know a magazine. This book came in and it was probably a good two inches thick, and I was like, dude, I love you to death, but I will try to read that. Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. Tango: But can you like abridge it for me? ⁓ Because I just I and my problem is I just don't have that the the attention span. Like I'll I can read an entire book and you can ask me about it. It's like I don't know, I enjoyed it while I read it, but I don't remember anything about it. I get three paragraphs in and I'm my head's always singing something else. But that's just me. Angela read the reads a lot of books though. She does very well with that. Author Aaron Ryan : Cliff's notes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Tango: Yeah, so some of Aaron's books are going to be books that I'll be reading as well. Yeah, and for some reason Well for some reason w we've we've we've attracted so many authors and I don't think Which has been wonderful, yeah. So I it's and I just keep joking, it's like I've got so many books to read now, I don't know I don't know if I got enough time in my life now to read all the books that I have on queue. Author Aaron Ryan : I hope so. That brings joy to my heart. Well, they're all I mean what I what I love about the authoring industry is there's so many ⁓ there's so many different voices, there's so many ways that people bring their stories to life. ⁓ and it's just so cool to see like the the huge variety of of offerings, you know, and the huge the huge diverse catalog of creativity that you see. in all of these different people who s you know, for one reason or another, at one time or another, were given a story that they decided to share at risk and put out there and see how people react to it. ⁓ it's it's it's awesome. It's just really fulfilling to be part of that community. Tango: Absolutely. And and you know the thing I the thing I I do love about books is that you are when you're reading the book, you're able to build the world in your head according to how you might see it. Instead of like when you watch a movie, you're constrained to how they thought the world would look. You know what I mean? So you don't get to imagine it. You you only get to see what they thought it would look like. Whereas a book you get to develop that whole thing in your head. Author Aaron Ryan : Yeah. No, the world building is a huge part. This is exactly and precisely why I loved Lord of the Rings. I just remember reading it and going, What is this? I mean, holy cow. The guy took fifteen years to write it from nineteen thirty nine to nineteen fifty four. It was one one story before Rayner Unwin ⁓ broke it up into three Fellowship, Two Towers, Return of the King. And it's just g ⁓ there's nothing like it, you know. I I'm he is the quintessential ⁓ master of Tango: Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : fantasy fiction. And one of these days I'm gonna get off my butt and I'm gonna write my fantasy novel. ⁓ you know, I've got a working title but I'm not sure that's gonna stay that way. But it's ba it would basically be a tribute to Tolkien. Not and it would fall dreadfully short and I'm okay with that. But I just wanna tip my hat to him in in a bo in a novel that way. Tango: That'd be awesome. That would be very awesome. What are what what are some of the ways that you have and your favorite ⁓ ways to conduct creative marketing? Because I think that's always a hard part for people is getting the marketing part out. Author Aaron Ryan : There's a lot of different ways. I mean here's this is something that I do right now is I wear shirts like this. Yeah. So the shirt says I suffer from arthritis, a painful chronic need to write. There is no cure. I have shirts like like ⁓ you know Annoy Me, I'm a writer, Annoy Me and You'll die in my next novel. ⁓ yeah. Tango: I was I've been trying to read your shirt the whole time. Yeah, with the same author right as Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha Author Aaron Ryan : There's one that says it it says being a writer is the best way I know how to get paid for being completely insane. And they're just they're such good conversation pieces. When I'm out there shopping, you know, getting groceries, whatever for for the wife and kids, and come back home. ⁓ people see that and they, ⁓ are you an author? Well, yes, I am. You know, the vinyl lettering on my car is really attractive, ⁓ and it's free and it makes my car partial write-off. But it allows people to see while they're driving, hopefully safely, and hopefully I'm driving safely, ⁓ for them to see that and know that there is ⁓ an author in that vehicle who wrote a whole bunch of stories and get interested in in that, you know. ⁓ I do vendor markets a lot. So I'm I'm out there at vendor markets and craft fairs selling my books amid amidst other artisans. So you've got a glown ⁓ blown glass artisan over here, you've got a ⁓ a photographer over here. Tango: Ha ha ha. Author Aaron Ryan : You've got ⁓ a bead maker over here, a t shirt maker author, you know? And it just makes me it makes me instantly unique. Yeah. Tango: I was just gonna say I don't think we've gone I don't think I've ever gone to it. Yeah, I don't think I've ever gone to a a craft show and saw somebody selling their book, you know, offering their books there. That would be something you Author Aaron Ryan : Vendor markets and craft fairs, they're huge. They're really good. I don't like to do book fairs. I've never done a book fair because in my belief, in my humble belief, ⁓ we're not unique in the slightest way. It's all of us all clamoring for the attention of the reader as they're going by. And so it we're not unique. But in a vendor market or a ⁓ a craft fair, I'm exceptionally unique. ⁓ and you know, it's Tango: yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : Frustrating and enjoyable when I am at a craft fair and I encounter another author there because it's like, ⁓ you know, I want people to come see my books. ⁓ but I've made good friends and good colleagues, and one of them is a fellow crafter first, who then became an author because she met me and she was writing a book, and and I gave her a book on like the business of writing. And she's kept in touch and she's been an invaluable and indispensable beta reader. Tango: Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : ALC Listener, which is an advanced listener copy for my audiobooks. ⁓ she buys my books. She leaves reviews for them. I mean, Victoria is is a wonderful friend and author. I wouldn't have met her except at one of these craft fairs. Tango: So you said something just that just piqued my interest here. So ⁓ the advanced audio reader is that what you just said? Yeah. So so they actually so you s so there's there's ⁓ I don't know how to phrase it correctly, but ⁓ so there's people that that listen to the book before it actually gets released to make sure it what that paces correctly and sounds correctly or Author Aaron Ryan : Advanced listener copies? Yep, audiobooks. It's invaluable. Mainly it's for the purposes of catching ⁓ plot holes, ⁓ stutters, like if I if I if I say and then I went into ⁓ and then I went into the store. You know, I don't want that double take in there, so they help me catch those errors. ⁓ you know, and I narr I narrate my audiobooks and that's when I catch like the ninety-nine that's when I catch still straggling errors after me doing a final read through, after the editor, everything. I still catch these errors when I record my audio book, so it's invaluable for me to do that. But ⁓ but the advanced listener copies, yeah, gives them a sense of what's coming. ⁓ it helps them to it helps me to get feedback from them on what ⁓ I might have missed. ⁓ and it's the same thing as ⁓ in audio as it is in a beta reader or an ARC reader, advanced reader copy for books before they get published. I use those as well. They're both invaluable. Tango: Yeah. That's cool. I I I didn't w you said that and it's piqued my interest. Like I don't think I've ever heard that term before. So that's that was that was very interesting indeed. ⁓ so What's the diff ⁓ I think we did well no, I guess we can hit this up. what do you can think is the difference between a hobbyist and an Author Aaron Ryan : I think there's several differences. So a hobbyist actually will look short term. ⁓ an entrepreneur will look long long term. ⁓ a hobbyist, there's nothing wrong with pursuing a hobby, first of all. I want to say that flat out from the start. If you are writing books or creating simply for a hobby, God bless you. I think it's wonderful because you're using that God-given gift of creation to do something, you know, whatever your something is. ⁓ but a hobbyist tends to look at expenses as just simply that, an expense. A business person will look long term. They'll look at it as an investment. So for example, vinyl ⁓ you know, shirts like this or vinyl lettering on my car. Some person some hobbyists might go, I don't know. I mean, I just you know, I write for me and I don't need to attract any attention to me. ⁓ a business person will look at it and go, No, no, no. I need this. I need to be able to be out there as a conversation starter. Like I just bought, I just bought a DJI. ⁓ lapel mic system because I record videos. I've got a marketing guy who gives me ideas. I record the videos. The mic that I have is just terrible. ⁓ you could hear it, the quality or lack thereof in my previous videos. This is a DJI double mic system with a receiver, and it's just awesome. Awesome quality. It's 259 bucks, I think, is what it was, or 279. This is not an expense. This is an investment. I'm also an inspirational speaker. I need this for speaking to record. Tango: Wow. Author Aaron Ryan : So it's looking long term. ⁓ it's having vision and drive. and a hobbyist can have vision and drive, but that vision is very forward thinking. It's gotta not just working on your project in the moment, but it's thinking long term. And this is where where do I go with this? Right? An entrepreneur will develop mantras and mission statements. ⁓ there's just there are a lot of differences that will take you, for example. Tango: Yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : Here's my favorite one, and I'll I'll just conclude with this. My favorite one, I'm not a writer, I'm not a voice actor. I am a business person who just happens to write books. I'm a business person who just happens to do voiceovers. So I've got this craft right here. I need a vehicle to take that craft and put it on in order to take it places. Right? So the vehicle is the business. The craft is secondary that you put on the business and take it somewhere. And that's that's how I like to identify. Tango: It's funny you mention it's funny you mentioned vehicle because I'll have to send you a picture of my vehicle. I I used to have an F-150 and it had our logo on the door, but then along the whole side, all the way to the back, was Batman. And I did it because it drew so much attention. And and and and and people would look at the truck and they're like, that's really cool. You know, and people want would take photos of it. So I traded it in and got a 2025 Ford Maverick. And it's it's like this eruption green. I love the vehicle. It's awesome. But I was trying to figure out like, do I do a superhero again? I almost did the Aquaman on it. And then I was gonna do ⁓ Green Lantern. I ended up doing a whole alien theme on it because it's a hybrid. And I don't know if you've ever driven a hybrid, but when you take off on this thing until you hit like 30 miles an hour, it's just like this it sounds like a spaceship all the time. I want to do aliens on this. So I've got aliens waving out the windows and I've got a Area fifty one on the hood and and people stare at this truck when I drive by. You know, but then big on the side of it is just the the company. ⁓ Author Aaron Ryan : Wow, no, that's that's great. It's great. It's what what can attract attention to yourself. The the biggest thing be in all of this, and this is another thing that'll differentiate a a hobbyist from a ⁓ a business owner, ⁓ is is you have to stand out. Right? The world the the world doesn't need a whole b ⁓ you know bunch more of the same. So like Oscar Wilde said, be yourself, everyone else has already taken. I love that phrase. ⁓ and there's somebody I forget who said it, but they said You're the US you that you can be. the world doesn't need another J.R.R. Tolkien, Tom Clancy, John Grisham, Suzanne Collins, you know, Marie Lou, ⁓ Aaron Ryan. They don't need another one. I've got my own signature stuff, and that's what makes me me. And I think ⁓ you need to do that in order to stand out from the herd and get heard. You like that? I made that up. Tango: That'll be on the next shirt you have. ⁓ Author Aaron Ryan : Actually the next shirt I've got coming, it may have been delivered today. It was on Amazon. It has w it says people, big, large, bold print people. It's rated one out of five stars. And then it says absolutely horrible, would not recommend. It's like a Yeah, it's a Yelp review for people. I just thought it was hysterical. I love funny T shirts. That's I'm wearing one every single day. One of my favorite t shirts is ⁓ is ⁓ Tango: Ha ha. I'm gonna look for that on Amazon 'cause I love that. Author Aaron Ryan : ⁓ am I perfect? No. But am I learning to be a better person? Also no. Or or math is important but no no English is important but math is importanter. They're so great. I love those shirts. Tango: Ha ha ha. That's great. I love that. Well, Aaron, we certainly appreciate you being here with us tonight and definitely for putting up with our five seven minutes of technical issues here. ⁓ we certainly didn't want As it continues. Well, we feel back and we didn't want to waste your time, but we're glad you stuck with us. You were an absolute delight to be with and I'm Author Aaron Ryan : I'm sorry, what was that? Your message is breaking up. Please signal again. Tango: always jealous of somebody who can write a book because I wish I could, but I'm even more jealous of the amount of hair you have. Author Aaron Ryan : Well, thankfully the toupee is nice and snug today. So yeah. Stay, stay, stay. Okay. Tango: I'd like unlike Angela's camera, which may fall again in another three minutes. But thank you again. We appreciate you so much. And ⁓ we can't we wait to you know read some of your books. I'm looking forward to it, yeah. Author Aaron Ryan : Stay, stay. Yeah. Thank you. Can I can I direct people to to one of two websites? So one one would be authorarenrion.com. ⁓ and then if you're you know want to come find out about discount codes or giveaways or the status of my screenplays, or if you're an author or a creator and you want to have inspiring tips ⁓ from an author, go to authorarenrion group dot com. So that'll forward you to a Facebook group. Tango: Of yes, of course. Please do. Author Aaron Ryan : And it's private and exclusive, there's no spammers, scammers. So authorarenrion.com, author Aaron Ryan Group dot com. And there's fun good time ⁓ what is it a pleasant time is guaranteed for all, Sergeant Peppers? Splendid time is guaranteed for all. Tango: Yeah. Well I'll make sure I put those links too in the show data at the end when I edit it, so people can click right on those and go right to it. Author Aaron Ryan : Well, thank you guys. Tango: Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your night. Bye. Author Aaron Ryan : Thank you, bye bye.