Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #173: Healing Through a Catholic Lens: Conversations with Justin Brown and Sister Claire

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Catholic Conversations #173: Healing Through a Catholic Lens: Conversations with Justin Brown and Sister Claire · Catholic Spirit Radio

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Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Hello everyone and welcome to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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I'm your host, Paul Garcia, and today we have two wonderful guests joining us
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to discuss a very important topic, Catholic counseling. We're joined by Justin
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Brown, a licensed clinical social worker in Bloomington, Illinois.
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Justin operates Rest in You Counseling, where he practices Catholic integrated
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therapy, helping people find deeper healing through a Christian lens.
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You may recognize his name from his radio spots you've heard on this very station.
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His approach centers not just on managing symptoms, but truly understanding
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and integrating the different parts of the human heart, bringing real restoration.
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We are also blessed to be joined by Sister Claire of the Sisters of St.
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Francis of the Martyr St.
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George. And she is also, she has a bachelor's in psychology.
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She works with OSF as a behavioral health navigator and works at a pain clinic
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as well and even has had a Catholic therapy or counseling rather herself.
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We'll find out what the difference is between therapy and counseling,
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if there even is a difference.
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And today she shares a strong belief in the power and importance of Catholic
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counseling, drawing from her own experiences, helping others live a life of
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joy, peace, and wholeness through Christ.
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Together, we'll all talk about how Catholic counseling differs from secular
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approaches, explore practical strategies for healing, and reflect on the way
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that a Christ-centered therapy can transform lives, families, and communities.
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Justin and Sister Claire, welcome to Catholic Conversations.
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Thank you both so much for your time today. Thank you, Paul.
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Thank you, Paul. Of course, it's my pleasure. So, Justin, let's start with you.
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Big question here What first drew you to become a counselor And why through a Catholic lens.
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Great question. So I guess I would start with, you know, I had received counseling
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myself in my younger years and at different points and now into my adult life
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and saw the benefit from it firsthand.
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Also, at the same time, you know,
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the Catholic faith has just been such an integral part to my entire life.
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Cradle Catholic, born and raised, and it's just always been a part of my life
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to, I will say, varying extents, you know, through development.
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But, you know, having that experience in my teen years and then going off to
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college and exploring what I wanted to study, I was just really drawn to knowing
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that I wanted to help people and thinking, how can I do this?
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And I learned of the major mental health and human services at Franciscan University.
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So got to give a shout out to Franciscan University in Steubenville,
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but chose my major there and quickly got into, you know, an internship or just
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learning more about it and knew pretty quickly, this is what I wanted to be doing.
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And from there, got into social work and just various jobs through the field
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of social work and working closely with people, but really wanting to get intimate with folks,
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you know, really one-on-one walking alongside of them, accompanying them.
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And I knew I could do that through counseling, through therapy,
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which, yeah, long story, but eventually getting to the place to be having a
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practice with a Catholic focus.
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And, you know, it's hard for me to separate the two, to be a therapist and not
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integrate the Catholic faith into it.
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Well, of course, right? I mean, for Pete's sakes, God created us in His image.
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It would be appropriate, I would think, to go about this through a Christian,
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more specifically Catholic lens, you know.
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We're not just human beings and just brains. we're spiritual beings at the end of the day, you know?
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And to everyone listening, you know, Justin, I know you personally from your
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counseling and he's a great guy. He knows what he's talking about.
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And you fixed me. No, I shouldn't say that. I mean, yes, you did.
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I don't know if that's allowed to say. I don't know what's correct and what's not to say.
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Anyway, Sister Claire, I want
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to ask you, why do you believe Catholic counseling is so important today?
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Many reasons. I think one of the big reasons that Catholic counseling is important
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today is just because of God, like we've been saying already,
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but God created us body, mind, and soul.
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And just that integration, a lot of our culture today is just very compartmentalized
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and separating things out. And then to really know that.
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My whole being belongs to God and to receive that healing.
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So many people need that healing in our culture today.
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And Catholic counseling is important, you know, at all times.
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But I think today, especially, there's just a lot of disintegration and a lot
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of people searching for the Lord.
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But to bring the Lord into your healing of body, mind, and soul together in
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therapy is just very beautiful.
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And that's a really interesting point because all the time I'm seeing on YouTube,
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you know, these ads, they say Netflix and stuff better help online.
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But it seems like therapy is definitely becoming more popular,
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but I don't know that all therapy's doing the job. And I think for maybe obvious
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reasons, nothing is nourishing the soul. Nothing's opening the gateways to grace.
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No, no therapists for the most part are telling you, Hey, where are you at with the sacraments?
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You know, are you, I actually spoke to an exorcist not long ago and he said
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mental health, he's not entirely sure that a lot of mental health issues don't
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come from a demonic type of oppression or anything.
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He says his first question to people who are experiencing significant,
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you know, I mean, they think they might be possessed or something,
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is are you receiving the sacraments? Are you going to mass?
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If that's your first line of defense.
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Anyway, I'm getting off topic here. I want to ask, Justin, let's start with you.
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What differs from secular forms of therapy and counseling and maybe also what's
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the difference between therapy and counseling.
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Sure you know i i think i would like
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to go back to one thing you shared about therapy is
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yeah it's it's kind of like a hot button topic you
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see it everywhere you're scrolling social media it is
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ubiquitous these days yeah better help here maybe
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10 ads a day for for that you know just watching tv
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or listening to the radio and it just kind of
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begs the question why why is that why is therapy such this kind of becoming
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so part of our culture and it makes me think of you know going back to you know
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decades ago you have people that would answer do you have a secure attachment and.
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50s, 60s, 70s, people would say, you know, 80% of the population would say,
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yeah, I have a secure attachment.
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Bring that to modern day and about 50% of the people will say,
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yes, I have a secure attachment.
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So what does that mean? If we do not have a secure attachment in our upbringing
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with a mother and a father,
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how are we getting a sense of ourself and how are we getting a sense of God,
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which in large part, we develop our sense of God and self through our attachment
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figures, our moms and our dads.
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So if only 50% of the population is responding that they have a secure attachment,
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that leaves a lot of work to be done on the human level.
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And enter therapy. So I think a lot of people, whether secular or Christian
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or Catholic, just things are coming to the surface now.
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People are seeing the need for therapy.
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And we also have developments in psychology. We're recognizing mental health
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and physical health are very connected.
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So I think just where society has led us to, where 50% of people are saying
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they have a secure attachment, paired with just the advancements.
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And real quick, for people that
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don't know, what do you mean by secure attachment? What does that mean?
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So, I'll provide examples. We all have attachment needs.
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Those being, we have the need to feel safe. We have the need to be recognized, seen, known, and heard.
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We have the need for reassurance, for comfort and soothing, things that really
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we develop early on neurologically in our development.
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We need to be delighted and cherished and treasured. We need to be loved and supported.
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Others have my best interests, you know, at heart and we need to belong. And so I,
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When we don't have those things, that's where things can really go awry.
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And as humans, we seek those things.
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And if it's not developed or if we don't receive those things early on,
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then we can become quickly misguided in seeking those things out in maladaptive ways.
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But a lot of those things we do, we are designed to gain from our mothers and
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our fathers in the family unit. and not to say all issues are because of,
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you know, things that were lacking in early development.
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There are certainly traumas and injuries and wounds that can happen later on,
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but it can certainly play a big part.
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And just looking at, you know, the society over, you know, the past handful
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of decades, where the direction that we've gone in with kind of breakdown of
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the family, attack on the family, you can see where these attachment wounds
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have really come in, come into play.
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Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I apologize too. I cut you off.
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You were talking about with advancements in psychology and with those stats.
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Did you finish your thought there? Yeah. Just thinking those,
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those two things are really, you know, why is therapy such a,
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such a hot topic right now?
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Why is, why is everybody, why does everybody have a therapist these days? You know?
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Right. Okay. I see. And sister Claire, we briefly talked before the show started.
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Would you mind telling us maybe your story of why you sought out counseling
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to begin with and why it was beneficial yeah that's a beautiful story and i would love to share.
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I think, well, the Lord is funny how he works because he knows all things and he knows timing.
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And I was sharing with Justin, too, there's something about God's timing where
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everything just kind of falls into place and I had no idea it was happening until it was happening.
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And the main reason was, so our community of sisters is, like Paul said,
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the Sisters of St. Francis of the Martyr St. George.
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And our charism, so how the Holy Spirit has inspired
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our group of sisters is our whole
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mission is to seek seeking to make the merciful love
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of christ visible and so receiving his
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mercy and giving it to others is the whole reason
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why i live and my spousal identity with christ
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and then that flows out and trying to bring
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his mercy to others so i just love how
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our charism has kind of been in my journey with this
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and catholic therapy and so I moved
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to Bloomington about two years ago and started working in the
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mental health field so a lot of people around me and when I was getting my degree
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were saying it's very helpful for a therapist or someone working with kind of
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hard situations and listening to people's stories to have their own therapist
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and so that was my main motivation was okay I'd like to.
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Praise God like our mother, Mother Mediatrics and our community are very just
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very beautiful in allowing us to receive counseling.
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And so I said, okay, I would like to receive this for my job.
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My apostolate is what we call our job. And I want to serve the people that I
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am serving as an authentic vessel.
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And lo and behold, that was my, yeah, that was my first kind of reason to start
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looking for a therapist.
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And then the journey has just been so much more beautiful that the Lord has
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healed my heart in so many ways of my own life story that I was not expecting to happen. So...
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Yeah, that's kind of the main reason. Well, was there another question there, Paul, or was that?
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Well, I was asking, so I asked you to share your story.
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And also, I want to know, was this Catholic counseling? You might have already said it. Oh, yeah.
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That was kind of my, there was no other, I was looking specifically for a Catholic counselor.
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And that was really providential too, because in town I was praying and I said,
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okay, Jesus, if you want this to happen, make it happen.
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And I just kind of, yeah, he's so good. So it was just a providential thing
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because I help other people find Catholic counseling and other,
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in general, I just help people find counseling resources.
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So I was at mass one day and my now therapist was at mass and I did not know
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who she was, but the Holy Spirit really stuck her out to me.
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So I just kept praying for this random lady like, okay, Lord,
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well, she must need prayers for something. And so I've been praying for her.
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And she was walking out of mass one day and I just said, hi.
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Whatever, like just something, probably just like a little conversation.
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And another parishioner after said, yeah, that's Karen. She's a counselor.
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And I was like, oh no, here we go.
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So, you know, I did want to ask for her information to help the people that I serve.
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And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to go for it and ask her.
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And it was just one of those, again, like providential moments.
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And it's, she has been a true instrument of God's healing in my life.
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Passed a little over a year now. So, yeah.
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It's really funny how God works in our lives. And you can kind of see that one coming almost.
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But that's really interesting. God bless. Karen is her name,
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right? That is beautiful.
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And in a moment, I want to ask about, you know, the differences between women's
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mental health struggles, maybe, and men's. I think that's really fascinating.
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The fruits of going to counseling as well.
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And you know what? I think there's questions still out there,
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the difference between therapy and counseling.
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And if there is a difference, maybe you already answered it.
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Music.
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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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I'm your host, Paul Garcia, and I am proud to be joined by Justin Brown of Rest
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in You Counseling and Sister Claire O'Connor of the Sisters of St.
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Francis of the Martyr of St.
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George. We are speaking all about Catholic counseling.
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Justin, I want to ask you first, before we get going, what's the difference
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in a nutshell between counseling and therapy?
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Yeah, I think a lot of people might use them or do use them interchangeably.
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If I were to make a distinction, I would say counseling is maybe a little bit more short term.
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There can be some overlap in modalities used, but really counseling to counsel
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someone, to give advice, to give some direction.
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Whereas therapy might be looking at some longstanding issues.
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Let's get into it. Let's take our time.
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And can we work toward some healing?
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Yeah, and even to think of therapy, what does therapy mean? to heal,
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whereas counsel kind of giving that advice or direction.
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Right. Just like a spiritual counselor. You know, people have the gift of counsel,
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and that doesn't mean that they're doing weeks and weeks of specific design therapy or anything.
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That's, I get it. That makes a lot of sense just in the name,
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counseling versus therapy.
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I want to ask you about your thoughts on, there's a lot of, how do I say this?
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With masculinity within the general public and society and within Catholicism.
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You know, it's understood that manly men, you know, we lift weights.
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We like MMA. We do stuff like that.
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We don't cry. Maybe we cry. Maybe that's understood, but we don't go to counseling.
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You know, they don't need counseling, really.
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What do you say to that, that notion that tough guys don't go to counseling?
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Yeah, culture has definitely had its impact on masculinity. And yeah,
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just, you know, to think of, you know, some differences that exist among between men and women.
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I really think a lot of the men that I work with really just searching for some
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sort of connection to relate their experience, to be in relation with someone and to be vulnerable.
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But a lot of what we see
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in our culture is you know don't be vulnerable
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you can do this on your own you know you you
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you have to be tough you have to be tough and
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you know when when yeah a lot of the guys that i work with are just really looking
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to get to know themselves get to you know i i have these feelings i have these
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emotions but i don't have anybody to to relate them to and sometimes that's where we start,
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just that kind of novel experience of identifying emotions and getting used to being vulnerable.
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Absolutely. If you ask me, I'm going to go off for a second on this topic.
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These are Paul Garcia's thoughts, not those of Justin Brown necessarily here.
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But I think a real man would go to counseling if he needs it.
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God forbid you're a man who goes home to his wife and you're all sorts of upset,
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frustrated, have no idea what you feel.
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All you know is you're angry and you're half the man you could be to your wife
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and your kids. And that's going to have generational impacts. I mean.
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You owe it to your wife to be the best man that you can. You owe it to God,
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to the Catholic Church, to be the best man you can.
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And I would say for a lot, I don't know about majority, maybe majority of men,
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something like counseling would absolutely be beneficial to being a more manly
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man, what a real man should be.
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And a real man should be patient, kind, strong, able to be leaned on by his wife and kids.
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If you need, if you can barely stand on your own, you're not going to be very
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useful. It's for others to lean on, you know?
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And again, you know, I, I say, you know, I've gone to Justin before,
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and I believe I'm allowed to say that.
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And it has been, for me, it was one time and that's all I needed.
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Man, that counseling was, it was fantastic. And it was just unloading and being
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vulnerable and having someone listen and say like, hey, first of all,
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this is more normal than you might think.
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Just hearing that from a professional really gives you a lot of power and confidence.
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And like, oh my gosh, maybe I'm not a horrible, messed up human being.
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And maybe I'm not crazy or whatever. And that's so empowering.
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And just being able to be vulnerable with another man is great.
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And a quick follow-up question, maybe someone I know asked me this, I don't know.
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But they wanted to know crying guys in a therapy room or counseling room have
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you ever seen that before is that normal did men shed tears is it embarrassing
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do you laugh at them what happens.
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I will let the cat out of the bag. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
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And yeah, what a beautiful thing to have these parts of us that are able to
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feel safe enough to come out and express emotion that has been dwelling somewhere within us.
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But yeah, for whatever reason, may not feel safe or we feel we can't do this.
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But, yeah, praise God whenever those emotions are able to come to the forefront.
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You know, it is, yeah, I would say it's a beautiful thing.
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And even, you know, I can think of being in session with some clients too where,
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you know, they're crying.
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And, you know, some people might have some different things to say about this,
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but I've cried in session with somebody.
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And to think of the opportunity to be going back to those attachment needs,
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to be seen, to be known, to be loved, to connect with somebody.
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You know, not saying like I'm bawling my eyes out and crying more than they
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are crying, but to really like feel, you know, to a certain extent for them and with them.
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So I would say, yeah, bring on all the tears.
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Crying is a beautiful thing. And yeah, just what an opportunity to be with somebody. Absolutely.
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And Justin, you could probably answer this one as well, but I'm going to turn
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it over to you, Sister Claire.
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What are some of the benefits you've seen maybe in your own life,
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but also the lives of the individuals you've helped find counseling or even
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counseled in one way or another?
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How have you seen their lives in your life improve?
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What things get better? Mm-hmm.
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I know for me, it's kind of what you all were saying too.
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I think you were saying, Paula, sometimes just naming things,
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well, both of you were saying, sometimes naming things,
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naming the emotion or sharing something with Karen and her receiving that and
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just kind of de-escalating all that I've been building this up has been transformative just in that.
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I was kind of thinking while you were talking, it really has made me a better
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woman and a better religious sister because I know that there is no part of me,
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and we always say this, there's no part of me that Jesus does not want to enter into.
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And there's no part of my life story that he doesn't want to enter into.
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And so I think that has been a huge fruit and that something that has been a
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benefit for me is to know, wow, Jesus was not afraid of that therapy,
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actually getting that out.
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Maybe I've heard different people say this, but I've kind of adopted it myself,
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like the mysteries of the rosary, like a sorrowful mystery of my life or a joyful
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mystery of my life, no matter what it is, it's not scary to the Lord.
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And he doesn't, like I do, kind of avoid or push it away.
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He gave me the opportunity in the place where he knew that that would be the
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place where he could encounter me was in therapy, saying it out loud and just and his timing.
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And then there's just a weight lifted up that doesn't hold that power and that
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strength that it did before.
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And there's a lightness to me. And I just feel a lot more whole as a person
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instead of like, oh, this part of my life, I love sharing about this.
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Oh, then there's that random little piece that was a hard time for me.
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And not that I constantly go around thinking about it, but when I do think about
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it, I'm just going to tuck that aside.
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That was something, whatever, that I don't want to go into it or I'm anxious about it.
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But then in the appropriate time and place to be able to receive that place
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where I could share it, gosh, it just, I feel a lot more whole.
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And I think people, jumping to the people that I serve,
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I love the ministry that I'm in, particularly as a navigator to help just be
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that instrument where there's so much going on in life and I hear people's stories
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that are just so sad and some of the things that they go through.
25:59
But to know that once they share it, because they share it with me too,
26:02
and sometimes they do think I'm their therapist as well,
26:05
but it's a beautiful balance again because I'm a religious sister and a woman
26:11
and I can receive them in their sorrowful mysteries.
26:15
And once they say it, they're nervous, but then.
26:18
And just to know that they have a safe, comforting place to let that out and
26:23
that I'm not afraid of it or they don't have to explain it away.
26:28
I think that's a big thing in our culture is like, it's going to be okay.
26:32
Like, this terrible, awful thing happened to me, but I'm going to be fine.
26:35
It's going to be okay. but to just kind of exclude the
26:38
but I'm going to be okay and just say this
26:41
happened to me this was hard and just
26:44
to let that silence sink in and just receive them in that then I feel like they're
26:50
more open to go to therapy and actually I follow up with them a couple times
26:55
if need be but mainly just honestly just one more time and I feel like they're
27:00
more open to actually start going to therapy because I knew, okay,
27:03
I was received in this and this will help me.
27:08
So, yeah. I love that. And I love what you were saying about just not being
27:13
kind of not recoiling when someone tells you what they're feeling.
27:17
I can think back to even as a kid, there's a large benefit to maybe experiencing
27:21
some adversity as a child and maybe seeing some things that might freak other people out.
27:26
Because then when people tell me in my adult life, my young adult life.
27:31
This thing is bothering them and they're so distraught and they think that
27:33
they're a freak for it or something i'm like hey no big deal like whoa
27:36
yeah that's all right man i guess it's not that big of a deal you
27:39
do that all the time and i think that's really wonderful and a couple quick
27:44
things here just hearing what you guys are saying well i don't know why there's
27:48
any therapy but catholic therapy because how could you solve this on your own
27:53
to believe that it just look within and it's all about you, that sounds prideful to me.
27:59
And that reminds me of the reason that the angels were cast out of heaven in
28:02
the first place is pride. I can do it myself. I don't need God. I, I, I.
28:07
It makes no sense. And then not only that, but to think that this isn't a spiritual
28:12
matter, there's so much going on here that doesn't follow the laws of physics.
28:16
It's supernatural, such as the law of matter can't be created or destroyed.
28:22
You can let go of your stuff and it might feel like a ton of weight on your
28:27
shoulders. Give that to someone else.
28:29
They don't necessarily have that weight on their shoulders. The matter's destroyed
28:32
by God. The only thing that can do something like that.
28:36
I just think that's so interesting.
28:38
Mine's going a lot of places, but yeah, I just don't know why there's any therapy
28:42
besides Catholic therapy. And Justin, you're writing things down.
28:45
So the mic is yours. I want to hear what you have to say.
28:49
You know, I'm certainly a little biased. I tend to agree with you,
28:53
you know, that there is value in Catholic therapy.
28:56
I do want to say it doesn't necessarily mean that folks that don't practice
29:00
from a Christian or Catholic perspective aren't doing good work.
29:03
I do think there can still be graces that flow through what God has provided
29:08
through these, really the...
29:10
Psychologists and really pioneers in the field, what they've been able to just
29:15
develop and become aware of how the human person works.
29:20
Really, God has gifted them some natural means to help with things on the natural level.
29:27
But I feel like it can be taken a step further to really make sure that we're
29:31
understanding how best to integrate these natural means with the faith and understand
29:37
who are we anthropologically?
29:39
Who are we as a human person?
29:41
So, you know, some of the modalities that are out there, CBT or EMDR or you
29:46
name it, there can be healing that takes place, but we do want to, you know.
29:50
Create a space to allow for integrating the faith and really take advantage
29:55
of this wonderful tool that we have of incorporating the faith, you know,
30:00
to think of being able to help people with develop some
30:03
some resources and something like an EMDR or
30:06
CBT because really that's that's where the ultimate healing comes
30:09
from is is Christ you know and it's it's not
30:12
yeah egocentric all about me how do I get rid
30:15
of the suffering how do I get you know with I think incorporating the
30:18
faith we can understand yeah who we are and how can
30:21
we go through the suffering like sister what you were saying how can we yeah meet
30:24
somebody there and shift from like this egocentric kind
30:28
of view of things to a theocentric a christocentric who
30:32
is the best example of of humanity how
30:35
can we not incorporate him to think of
30:38
even psychology psyche and
30:41
or psychotherapy you have psyche
30:44
soul and therapy healer who's the ultimate healer you
30:48
know of souls jesus you know so it's it's again going back to it's it's really
30:52
hard to to separate the two right and you I gave the intro saying that you go
31:00
about your therapy and counseling through a Catholic lens or Christian lens.
31:06
Really, it should just be the true lens.
31:08
Every other type of therapy is forgetting this crucial part of reality.
31:12
So really, they'd be the modified versions, I would think.
31:15
But I have plenty more questions for you, but we are going to go to a quick break after that.
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I have more questions, some more practical advice for our listeners as well
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as coming your way. All that in just a few short minutes, but first,
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34:56
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
35:00
I'm your host, Paul Garcia, and this is part three of three,
35:03
the last 15 minutes or so of this conversation. I am joined by Justin Brown
35:08
of Rest in You Counseling here in Bloomington, Illinois.
35:12
He's a Catholic counselor and Sister Claire O'Connor of the Sisters of St.
35:16
Francis of the Martyr St.
35:18
George. She has a bachelor's in psychology, works with OSF as a behavioral health
35:22
navigator, and works at the pain clinic and has received Catholic counseling herself.
35:28
Lots of people here have received Catholic counseling, I realize,
35:31
and so this is a great room to be talking about this.
35:34
So, Justin, I'll start with you. I'm going to ask you both this question.
35:37
What is some practical advice that individuals listening who could use some counseling,
35:43
some advice, how to live more peacefully and deal with the things that plague
35:49
their mind, which is practically all of our listeners, I would assume.
35:52
What advice do you have for just living the day-to-day or however you want to take that question?
35:58
Yeah, I think for folks really just seeking healing and being curious about it,
36:06
maybe my mind goes to starting with just creating some space to slow things
36:12
down and get to kind of be in relationship with ourselves, you know,
36:19
and seeing what comes up, You know.
36:22
Taking some time to, again, our lives get so busy, can be chaotic, just overwhelming.
36:28
Are we creating some space to just quiet our mind, body, and spirit and to see
36:34
like what's calling for some attention here?
36:38
And maybe from there, being able to make a determination, okay,
36:42
this is something that's been here for a while.
36:44
This is something that's really bubbling up to the surface when I am taking
36:47
this time to quiet things down, slow things down.
36:50
And then if, you know, it's determined help is needed, really,
36:56
again, even taking time with that as well.
36:58
You know doing doing research what you
37:01
know would would serve me best not just running to okay
37:05
this is bubbling up to the surface how can i make it go away but where
37:08
can i go who can i speak with do i need to maybe connect
37:11
with some some trusted relationships to to seek advice even on that just being
37:16
being slow with it being intentional seeing what resources are out there and
37:20
if somebody is looking for help yeah shopping around as well you know really
37:25
finding who can i connect with on these things? Who do I feel safe with?
37:29
Really not forcing anything because I think there can be parts too where,
37:33
okay, like I really want to address this issue and make it go away or make sure
37:38
this is all healed up by, you know, the summer.
37:41
But yeah, really just I think the main thing that comes to mind is just slowing
37:45
things down, seeing if we can be with ourselves and see what might come to the surface.
37:50
And you know what? I'm going to throw in my own advice. don't
37:53
be a wimp go ahead and that's terrible advice is
37:55
it go ahead and just call them darn it call
37:58
those the counselor seek them out contact them
38:02
I can think of a lot of people in my
38:04
head right now it's like hey man just just do the thing go ahead and call them
38:09
up you know you need the help you know you need the help but it's just hard
38:11
for a lot of people and that's why I'm not a counselor you see I'm a little
38:14
pushy so I want a quick more question you have any like daily routines that
38:19
you do or anything that help you to be peaceful or anything like that?
38:23
I would say the main thing is really, like I mentioned, taking time to see what
38:29
is coming up to the surface, welcoming all things that make us up,
38:35
even the ones that, like Sister you had mentioned,
38:38
even the things we sometimes don't like or we've kept in the corner or don't acknowledge.
38:43
Really recognizing those as we are made our whole being, all parts that make
38:48
us up in the image and likeness of God.
38:51
And sure, sometimes parts of us might be a little misguided,
38:54
off base, but can we be curious about those things that are coming to the surface,
38:59
those parts of us that, again, even the ones that don't feel comfortable,
39:02
maybe acting in some maladaptive ways, just getting to know those parts.
39:07
And even, yeah, I would say for me, like some anxious parts,
39:11
some nervous parts that had some thoughts about, you know, coming in and being
39:14
on the radio, checking in with those parts too, seeing what might this be about?
39:18
How can I really be connected to kind of my inmost self?
39:23
How can these parts come under the leadership of inmost self and really be open
39:29
to the graces that are here?
39:32
So, yeah, a little bit of time each day. And again, lives get busy, lives get crazy.
39:37
But being intentional about can we spend a few minutes here and there throughout
39:41
our days or certain times of the day to connect with ourselves.
39:44
And from there, maybe we're open to, you know, connecting with others,
39:48
being there for others as well.
39:50
Interesting. It sounds like curiosity about what you're feeling rather than
39:53
just pushing it away and saying, get out of here, not acknowledging you.
39:56
It seems like that's beneficial.
39:58
I mean, why do I feel this way? Rather than, I don't want to feel that way,
40:02
I don't feel that way or something like that. Very interesting.
40:05
Sister Claire, what about you? Do you have any advice for listeners?
40:10
Hey, this is how to live a more peaceful life, how to deal with or however you
40:15
want to say it, work with your emotions, thoughts, anything like that.
40:21
Yeah, I think going off of Justin is what something that may be shocking is that sisters are human.
40:28
And so we don't walk around the house singing all day long and that problems come up.
40:34
And we live in community, which is a huge gift. But you live with women from
40:39
all across America, all different ages.
40:41
And that's the beautiful gift. And it's also a task and something that the Lord
40:45
brings about our growth and holiness.
40:47
So for me, I've just been also a big thing, again, kind of going off of Justin
40:53
is just checking in and saying, OK,
40:56
I am angry about this in my own heart and just being there and saying and being
41:01
aware of where I'm at and then taking time for silence, like turning off the phone.
41:07
You know, asking your spouse or your kids, like, hey, I just need one minute
41:11
here. Just take a breather and then come back out.
41:15
Just kind of making a routine for yourself. Maybe if, you know,
41:19
with your work day or your weekend, even writing out a list of,
41:22
you know, things come up that we can't plan.
41:24
But something to kind of have a structure to go off of if life seems overwhelming.
41:29
A big thing for me is just, praise God, being a sister, we have an order of the day.
41:34
So we kind of have a rhythm of the day that's our typical. and that
41:37
has been helpful for me to say okay you
41:40
know where am I at going into
41:43
work today and then coming home okay Jesus what happened today
41:47
and sometimes a lot happens during our day to just process that before go go
41:51
go and then going to bed and so yeah that's that's something and I thought of
41:56
something while you were talking but Jesus himself I've been praying with this
42:00
of like the Paschal mystery of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection.
42:05
And Jesus himself, as you were talking about masculinity and men and their emotions.
42:10
Jesus had all the emotions. And so he wept, he laughed, he went to a wedding at Cana and rejoiced.
42:17
He cried over his friend that died, Lazarus.
42:20
And so to say that, okay, I don't have time to look at my own emotions,
42:26
that's like, Jesus let those out. And that's been healing for me.
42:29
Like we've been sharing about this time here of, I guess that's a big theme
42:34
is acknowledging our emotions, but you can look to Jesus. He did that too.
42:40
And the beauty of our charism, again, of merciful love for my group of religious
42:45
sisters is I can only give what I receive.
42:49
And if I don't allow myself to receive that mercy and in my own day and just
42:54
practice what I preach, quote-unquote, nothing fruitful is going to come out.
42:58
Sometimes people think that religious sisters are almost just like these Catholic
43:02
workers, but my identity is a bride of Christ.
43:06
And so, kind of like you're saying, you want to be a better man and a better husband.
43:10
We want to give our whole lives to Christ and live in that spousal union with
43:15
Him. So anything that I do flows out of that.
43:19
So when I'm able to check in on my own emotions, to go to therapy,
43:24
to have my supports in place, being community, go outside, take a walk,
43:28
do these little things each day, that's strengthening my union with him.
43:32
And that's what flows out of my life versus just trying to serve everyone else
43:36
but not take care of myself. Right.
43:38
And we've been talking about the importance of having Jesus in the mix with
43:43
all this and taking things to Jesus.
43:46
Why don't we, Justin, just go to Jesus and pray about it?
43:49
Why do we need this human level of therapy and counseling? Why not just go straight to Jesus?
43:56
Yeah, I think that can be hard for some folks, to be quite honest.
44:00
Again, going back to those attachment wounds where, you know,
44:03
as we develop, we really get a sense of who God is, who Jesus is,
44:08
how to be in relation with others.
44:10
And, you know, I've come across some folks that are really feel abandoned by
44:14
God or feel God is a drill sergeant.
44:17
You know, God is, you know, he's there sometimes, he's not there all the time.
44:23
So, you know, some folks really starting on that human level,
44:26
can we get an understanding of who God is, you know, and see where some of the
44:33
things that happen on a human level might have misinformed, you know, our image of God?
44:39
And can those be places of healing so that doors can be open for the graces to flow?
44:46
So the crooked path can be a little bit more straight to get to the source of
44:50
grace and understand, yeah, maybe some of the woundedness that we have that
44:54
is preventing us from going further into intimacy with Jesus.
45:00
Right, absolutely. And before we wind down this show here, Sister Claire,
45:05
if someone is listening to this and they're thinking, hey, I could really use a counselor.
45:10
Justin's great, but you know what? I didn't like what he said about this.
45:13
So maybe I said, I'm just kidding.
45:15
No, I'm just kidding. But if someone is looking for a counselor,
45:19
preferably a Catholic counselor, how would they go about finding them? Yes.
45:23
So I'm sure there are other like Catholic avenues that have Catholic counselors
45:29
kind of listed or they know about them or hearsay and praise God we have Justin
45:32
right here in Bloomington.
45:34
But my role in OSF, you do not have to be an OSF patient to use our services,
45:40
but we are a free phone line and we just talk to people and kind of get them
45:45
connected and we'll send them a list of Catholic if they were looking for Catholic counselors.
45:50
Send them that list that are, if they need to be covered by their insurance
45:54
and on the practical level, we just have a phone call with you and then we'll
45:57
send you a list of all the therapists near you.
46:01
We have, I'm a behavioral health navigator through OSF, as we said,
46:05
but we have navigators from Rockford all the way down to Alton.
46:08
So if you live in a different area than here, you'll be set up with another navigator.
46:13
But I cover with my co-worker, Megan, we cover Chicago all the way down to Danville, Champaign.
46:19
Anyway, we've got people. So you can ask, you know, I'd like to specifically
46:23
see a Catholic counselor and they could put that list together for you with what works for you.
46:29
And then also it's kind of nice because it's free. And then we do a quick follow
46:34
up call just making sure you got what you're looking for as well.
46:37
And what's the number that they can call? That's a great question, Paul.
46:42
It's our schedulers. And again, you don't have to, I want to throw this in there.
46:48
What you're going through, you might not have been to combat in war and have
46:54
that kind of PTSD, or you have these extreme, like, I can only go to therapy
46:58
if I have these humongous life traumas.
47:01
We all have traumas. They're not all the same. They affect us differently.
47:06
So everyone can go to therapy. There's no, just to throw that in there.
47:10
So if you're thinking about it, that's kind of like my journey has been,
47:14
you know, I have different little things and big things.
47:17
But yeah, anyway, I wanted to throw that in there. Absolutely.
47:20
That's a great point. Yeah, you know, everyone's worthy of seeking counseling
47:24
if they could use it. You know, they think they could use it.
47:26
It doesn't have to be huge.
47:27
It can be very small. And what you think is huge might be small to others.
47:31
What you think is small might be a big deal to others. Right.
47:33
Yes. So the number, besides looking up Justin as number one here,
47:40
309-308-8150 are our schedulers and they'll put you with a navigator.
47:48
Perfect. That number is 309-308-8150. And just to clarify, totally joking about
47:54
someone that they heard is something Justin said that they didn't like.
47:58
Justin's fantastic. I personally endorse the guy and he's great.
48:02
I would highly recommend them and on that note Justin how would someone reach you?
48:06
Well, and to your point, Paul, sister and I were talking before coming in.
48:09
It is so nice to hear that there are other Catholic counselors,
48:14
therapists out there because there are niches within this kind of,
48:19
if you could call it a niche of Catholic therapy, and there are going to be
48:22
folks with their individual strengths.
48:24
And even just, again, you know, really shop around, find that person that is a good fit for you.
48:31
The relationship, your competency has something to do with it,
48:35
but there are studies out there where 90% of success in therapy goes back to
48:40
that foundation of the relationship between the person that you're meeting with.
48:44
So that is something to emphasize, but for folks to get in contact with me,
48:49
I would say open to, it will open the doors to other therapists as well,
48:53
but catholictherapist.com is a wonderful resource to where you can look at various
48:58
Catholic therapist profiles.
49:00
My contact information can be found on their phone number 309-948-2072.
49:07
All right. That's 309-948-2072, you said? I hope that's it. Yeah.
49:14
You're going to get like McDonald's or something. Can I take your order?
49:18
What's my phone number? That's pretty funny.
49:21
Well, Sister Claire, Justin, thank you both so much for being with us today.
49:26
Your insight to remind us that healing is about the whole person,
49:29
the body, mind, and soul, and that real peace comes only through Christ.
49:34
For our listeners, if you or someone you know is struggling with anxiety,
49:37
depression, inner conflicts of all sorts, or any emotional challenges,
49:41
I just know that hope and healing are possible, and Catholic integrated counseling
49:45
can be a powerful, faith-filled resource.
49:49
Thanks again, everyone, for tuning in to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
49:53
Until next time, may God bless you all and guide you all. And again,
49:57
Justin and Sister Claire, thank you very much for your time.
50:00
Thank you. Thank you, guys. Of course. Our pleasure.
50:03
You've been listening to Catholic Conversations. Download our podcasts at catholicspiritradio.com.
50:09
Music.