Latest / Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community / I Thought Rest Was Betrayal | Vanessa Parra

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I Thought Rest Was Betrayal | Vanessa Parra · Neighbourly: Real Stories of Care and Community

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But when you're going through migration, it's
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totally different. Like, your brain is on fire. I
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don't know why. So I really need
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to build community, but my body doesn't feel safe.
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What if the thing you call resilience is actually survival?
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What if the guilt you feel for slowing down isn't humility, but
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something heavier. I'm Johan Heinrichs, producer of Neighborly
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Podcast. Today, Shannon sits down with Vanessa,
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a Latina migrant, writer, and member of the trauma care
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team here at Care Impact, now living in Montreal.
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Vanessa came to Canada looking for safety, but what she didn't
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expect was how long it would take to actually feel at rest.
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Even surrounded by welcome and opportunity, her mind felt
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on fire, always adjusting, always bracing.
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Out of that tension came a question that reshaped her faith:
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Is rest weakness, or is it holy?
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Vanessa now helps create spaces where migrants can pause,
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grieve, celebrate, and heal together. She calls
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them safe havens. And she carries a striking image with
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her: a dark forest filling with fireflies,
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small lights that signal restoration, an image
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which then turned into a book that she wrote. If you've ever
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struggled to slow down without feeling guilty, this conversation
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may feel closer than you expect. Let's join Shannon and
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Vanessa at the table.
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Vanessa, hi. Thank you so much for coming on the
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podcast. I can't wait to hear more about
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all the things that you're going to share. Some of the things I already know,
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but just for our listeners to hear and be inspired by
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the grassroots community building you're doing and just
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sharing your own story and all of those different things, just thank
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you for being here. Thank you, Shannon. Yeah, of course. Well, we
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always start off with our signature icebreaker question: who is
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a neighbor growing up that you will never forget?
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Well, I won't pick just one person, but just the whole
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kids in my neighborhood. I grew up in Colombia,
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which many people know is not the safest
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place to be, but I was blessed to live
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in kind of like a gated apartment
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community. So I had the freedom of
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just going out, play with other kids, freely
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climbing trees, riding bikes, and I didn't
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understand back then, but now I can see how free I was
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and not being scared of being robbed or anything else. I was
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just kids going around playing by themselves. That's so
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good. That's like just a picture of, of childhood
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and like how we want it to be for kids. I love that you didn't
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feel that sense of fear at all. You could just be free.
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Yeah, like being safe, even though it's not the most
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safest place to live. Right, right.
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Yeah. Well, I'd love to hear more about just kind
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of your journey, I guess. Where does your story with
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community really begin? Well, there was
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definitely a lot of community in Colombia. Like, Latin
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people, we are a very warm and we value a
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lot of family and unity. But I would say my
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personal journey really began when I moved to Canada,
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going through migration. It's a very different
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experience for you to build a community
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when you already have an environment like an ecosystem,
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so that new community, it's part of your existing
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ecosystem. But when you're going
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through migration, it's totally
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different. Like, your brain is on fire. You don't
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really know why. It's not like, hey, let's meet new people
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and build a community. Part of what I already
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know is my brain is on fire, on
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survival mode. I don't know why. So
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I really need to build community, but
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my body doesn't feel safe. Wow. Yeah. If you
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feel comfortable sharing, what led you to move to Canada from
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Colombia? Well, fun enough, it's about being safe
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because Colombia, it's not
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a, um, a safe place in many ways. Political,
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criminal, there's a lot of things going on, but you
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don't really understand what safe
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means in other levels. It's a challenging
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and yet beautiful experience. Like, I don't regret. That's
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something hard to explain about migration. It's like, if it is so hard,
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what, why don't you just come back? And it's like, no, because it's
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beautiful, complex, and gives you like a
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space for growing. Yeah, multiple things
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can be true. It can be hard and Good and
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challenging and growing. Yeah. Wow.
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How old were you when you moved to Canada? Uh,
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26, 27. Yeah. So very much an
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adult, like have lived life and coming to
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this place that's, that's totally new. So did you know anybody when you
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moved here to Canada? No, but, uh, praise
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God, when we arrived, there was a lot of people that welcomed us.
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Yeah. So what was that like? I guess when you came in,
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you talked about just you're not feeling safe, it's this brand new
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environment. I guess, how did you cope with that? How
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did you learn what you needed, that sort of thing? Yeah,
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so I spent way more time with the Lord. That
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was my main point, my refuge.
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I feel lost, I need to go to you. But
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you would think that spending more time with the Lord would give you more
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clarity, But the more time I spent with the Lord, the more chaos
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there was. Yeah. We moved to Ontario
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and then moved to Montreal. Wow. Which
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it was a big challenge that we didn't expect
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it to be. Like, you would say it's not a big of a deal. It's
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same country, kind of the same culture, you would say.
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But I think for my brain, it was like, enough is enough.
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Yeah. Yeah. Like, we're trying to build something new here,
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and all of a sudden girl, you decided to start over
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again, right? Yeah.
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Well, I know you've written a book, and I guess what
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stirred in you that, that led to writing this book,
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The Expansion of the Fireflies? Well, it's funny because
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I was writing a book without even knowing I was
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writing a book. When I moved to Montreal,
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I got baptized And something
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that seemed very small, or at least for me at that
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moment it didn't seem that big of a deal, uh, it became this
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whole thing. I used to write every now and
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then, but after I got baptized, it was like
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notebooks and notebooks in just a few months.
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Wow. And last year I
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faced some health issues. So I
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ended up spending a few months
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alone. Wow. Like most of the day alone, writing,
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reading, praying, like feeling the world
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was falling apart. Yeah. But just being there with the Lord, it was
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like pouring out, and the only
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available umbrella was spending time alone with the Lord. So I
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would write and write for hours, like 5, 6 hours
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writing and writing. Without even thinking
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about publishing any of that. I was just surviving.
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Yeah. Just trying to stay alive. Yeah. And
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I was just writing. And it's beautiful because during that
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time, I remember listening to a song. It's called "Flowers."
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And one of those moments, on my knees, crying,
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praying, "Lord." And that's what the song says,
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"Lord, why are you keeping me here?" And he said to
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me, darling, I'm planting seeds, and one day you'll
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see the flowers grow in the valley. Wow.
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And for me, that's what the expansion of the fireflies
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is. I would say that again. And for me, that's what the
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expansion of the fireflies is. How God
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can turn the brokenness, tears into something,
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beauty into poetry. Yeah. In something that you would never
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imagine, something better. That your plans.
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Wow. And so is the book basically describing your
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journey and your story, or what is kind of the heart of what
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you talk about in this book? The heart of the book is how
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rest is holiness and how as
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migrants we struggle so much with rest, and
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that comes from trauma. I don't know about you, but in our
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culture, For you to use the word trauma, like,
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you need to have a very good case to dare to use that
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word. Like, there's so much stuff going on,
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like murders and things really heavy, that for you
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to, to say that you need to heal from something,
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from any trauma, like, girl, you better have a
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good reason to be complaining about life. Like, it's
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almost like grateful to be grateful is forced.
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Wow. Um, which being grateful is a good thing.
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It's, it's good to be grateful every day about small and big
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things. But when you're not allowed to grieve, to
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complain— something can be good and hard at the
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same time, and both can exist, right? Yeah.
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So the book goes through it because that was my journey,
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like why this is so hard and why It
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is so hard for me to rest. Why do I feel so
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guilty about rest? And how
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resting is not for lazy people or because you're too tired.
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Rest is about holiness. And I go through,
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I would say, the whole Bible. I go through chapters
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of chapters of the Bible throughout the book, like how is God
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showing that rest is about Him.
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It's about being shaped, about being— about creating something
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new from your needs, from your tears. That's what
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happens in the Psalms. It's not people
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thinking theologically and writing something very smart. It's people
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on their knees going through very real things,
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and by pouring out themselves
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into the Lord, that's when those Psalms are
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written. Yeah, that's beautiful. And why did you
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pick fireflies? Like, what does that image mean to you?
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Again, it wasn't planned. Anything related to this book
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wasn't planned, which is very funny of me because I'm
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a person who— a very Type A person. Like, I like to plan,
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to have everything ahead. So just to go through this process
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where nothing was planned by me and I can take
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any credit of it. It's not like I was
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thinking about something very aesthetically, I don't
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know, like something beautiful for the book. One day I had
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a very image in my mind, like a very
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specific image of a dark forest full
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of fireflies. And I started to write like an
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exercise, something to reflect about
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collective trauma in Latin America, how
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normalized it is, and how when you
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start healing, it's like becoming a
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firefly. Wow. And slowly you start to see
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more fireflies and more and more. So that's how that
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forest gets full of fireflies.
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So I wrote that exercise without thinking about
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it. It just Left it there. Later on, a
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friend of mine from our Spanish city group in our local
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church, she sent me a picture of that same image.
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She didn't know, she had no idea about this or the
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book or anything, and she sent me that picture and told
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me, hey, Vani, Vanessa, we were gathering with the
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city group with our Spanish group, and
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suddenly all the space was full of fireflies
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and we found it beautiful and we really wanted you to see it.
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And I was like, that's exactly what the book is about. That's so cool.
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How migrants here means frustration,
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like, and that was it. Like, I was sure that was the name of the
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book. And the more I researched about
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fireflies, it was more clear to me because they're
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small, But if you see fireflies, it means that
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environment is getting restored. It's a sign of
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restoration, of healing. Like something major is
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going on here, even though this is a very small creature, which
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you can feel like as an immigrant. Yeah. You're a minority.
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You're not seen. You're not in your
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familiar environment. But the fact that you're
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here is not an accident. There's something going on here.
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Beyond what you can see. Wow, thank you for
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sharing that. That's such a whole— like, I can
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visualize that, that picture, and I can't fully understand that
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as, as coming from a very different culture and then moving here, but
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just to imagine that experience and that picture
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of like restoration is possible, and
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when we're— when we begin to heal, like, it's this whole
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transformation that happens. That's beautiful. I'm guessing this
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is probably most of the book feels this way, but is there any specific moment
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in the book that feels especially personal or anything that you're like,
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oh, I loved that I got to share this, this aspect of
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myself? Yeah, like the whole book is very
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personal. Yeah. Not because the whole book is about my personal life.
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I go through the scripture, in relation
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with my life, because that is where the book came from, like going through
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the Bible and reflecting that on my life. But there's
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a portion of it that would probably be more personal.
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I was reflecting on in those times
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when Jesus died on the cross, like when you feel,
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okay, the darkness won, this
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is the end. Like in those times, God is
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not improvising. That is part of His
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plan, and He's doing something major, and He's building
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healing promises that are going way above
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what we would see as a victory. And I was remembering
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something that happened many years ago that came randomly
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during a worship time in our church.
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I remember an aunt She was like my big
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sister. She wasn't like much older than me. Yeah.
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So we were raised together, and she died at a
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very young age from a very aggressive
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cancer, and it was quick. So you— we didn't
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have like even time to process what was
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going on, and I was very young at the time, and I wasn't
16:04
Christian, but in that moment, I remember seeing her
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healthy, happy, kind of a vision of
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her. I don't know how to explain it, but like, in the
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midst of worship, I was not thinking about her, like very
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random if you ask me, but I could see her
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happy, healthy, and it was like a message. I
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don't know, like something from God saying, well, what was
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meant from the enemy to bring death
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and grief to her, I used that bed
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for her to know me. Yeah. She became a
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believer in that bed. So what the enemy wanted to use
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for death, I used it to give her eternal life,
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and she is okay. And that was like,
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wow, I never thought about it, but this is— and maybe it's obvious for
16:57
some people, but that moment for me was very special.. And
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I shared that in the book because there are moments, especially
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with collective trauma, when you would say, well,
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where was God during those situations,
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right? Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. That's so personal. But now
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it's making me think about people that I've known who have walked
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through especially an illness that doesn't feel fair or
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doesn't feel like, God, why would you allow this to happen? And
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yet to frame it as like, this is actually what he used
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to draw her near. Wow. Yeah. And something that
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I struggled or I'm working
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on is praying about healing over other
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people. And that moment, it wasn't only about my
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family or my own story. It was about never
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be afraid of praying over healing.
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Because if you're my child, the answer, it's
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always gonna be yes. It's not the question about yes or
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no, it's when. So don't be afraid. What if I
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pray for this person in our church and they
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die? Yeah, like, it can be a struggle for some people like
18:12
me. And he was like, yeah, working that on me, like, never
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be afraid of praying over healing. You are
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here because I'm using my body to bring healing
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to earth. So that's your mission here. So
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don't, don't step away. Don't step back. Go ahead. Don't be
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afraid. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing about your book and why you wrote
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it and just your heart coming from this season of— it sounds
18:39
like pain and challenge, but something that I think
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really will speak to people and will encourage and give that picture
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of what healing can look like. I'd love
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to kind of transition now to some of the community building that you're
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doing. I know you are working on workshops and different
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things to just help create space
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for other Latino migrants in, in Montreal. Can you share
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a little bit about how that came about and why you're doing
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that? Well, uh, part of that story of the expansion of
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the Fireflies a friend of mine from our church,
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she was also writing a book at the same time
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without us planning about it. Wow. And
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when we realized about and start sharing each other,
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it was like our books are compliments. Kind
19:33
of like if we sat down and say, okay, let's make a book
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about personal healing and then a book about community healing,
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because we need both, right? Like personal
19:44
healing and take that to community and how
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those are happening at the same time. It's not like
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you do one first and then the other one. It's everything
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happening all at the same time. So we sat down
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and really talked about our burden for
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the Latino migrants community here in
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Montreal. And when we sat together, we had that same heart of,
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we want a safe place because we can see
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here many immigrants facing major
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challenges. They long for a relationship with
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God. They long for community. They long
20:26
for belonging, but their brain is in— it's on
20:29
survival mode. So they're not the person who are just
20:33
gonna show up to church every Sunday. Like, they can
20:37
be going through any kind of crisis. Like, you need to
20:41
go tomorrow if your paperwork doesn't come over to your
20:45
house. So people is facing all kind of things that they
20:48
will just don't show up every week to church.
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They— you need to come near to them and walk
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along and help them to have that space of
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silent rest to feel respect
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here, to even see it and think
21:07
through and give names to what they're going through. Like, I don't know what's
21:11
going on. I need to see it. And maybe if I hear someone's story,
21:15
I would say, yes, that's exactly what I'm going through. Or maybe
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not. Maybe it has something similar to what I'm going
21:23
through. But you can at least start thinking about it. And we wanted
21:26
to build that physical space as much as
21:30
possible for people to be together, to have a
21:34
consistent place to go, to have fun, but
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also to learn, but also to have
21:41
silence and to take a break even from the language, you know,
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like I don't need to be thinking in another language, another
21:48
social cues, we can make a joke, right, that people would
21:52
understand just to take a break. And feel home.
21:56
Mm-hmm. Yeah, to feel at home. That's huge. That's
22:00
huge. So do you bring that space together weekly or monthly or
22:04
like what does that look like? Our dream would be to make
22:07
it a weekly thing. Right now it's in a very
22:11
early stage. Okay. We are just going one step at a time
22:15
right now. We did a first
22:19
workshop last year. We're going to have one in a couple of
22:22
days and then we're going to start trying to do that one
22:27
biweekly. So we're in that, in the midst of that journey
22:31
ourselves. Like our own project is in that
22:35
growing journey that we're trying to walk along with
22:39
other people here in Montreal. Yeah.
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Yeah. And I know you're in the early stages, but I guess one thing I'm
22:46
wondering is just in your own experiences or, or
22:50
in those gatherings that have already happened, what have you noticed
22:54
that are like the biggest needs for people? Like, what kind of needs are you
22:58
seeing? Yeah, I think there's a need for
23:02
silence. I don't know if that makes sense, uh, but just because there's
23:06
a lot of people that are
23:09
working, studying French, but then having a second job. During
23:13
the weekends, but then with kids, house, so they just don't
23:17
have a time to just stop and have
23:20
some silence. Silence to even
23:24
think about something that it's not like, I need to do this and
23:27
then that, this and that, and just going from A to
23:31
B, like having that space in between. I think that's
23:35
the major need right now and just
23:39
to hear some other stories that they can relate to, feel
23:43
seen. Yeah. Like there's something, someone here who knows my
23:47
name, knows my story. I can be here
23:50
being extremely open, cry, and knowing
23:54
that people won't see me like, oh, this poor girl. It's like
23:58
everyone here is on the same boat going through
24:02
major situations. And it's like, okay, we're, We're all in this
24:06
together. And that's beautiful. We, we had a, an encounter
24:10
last year and it was very emotional. Like people were crying
24:13
and being grateful of having a space like that. Wow. Kind of
24:18
like, why did it take you so long to start
24:22
doing this? Uh, but yeah, it's all part of
24:25
a process that we're all learning together.
24:30
Yeah. That I think really speaks to the resilience of
24:34
people. And I guess that's something I'd love to hear more about. What have you
24:38
learned about resilience in migrant communities and especially
24:41
the Latino community? Yeah, there's
24:45
so much resilience in Latino
24:49
communities in general, not only migrants. It's, there are
24:53
so many countries that have gone through some
24:56
major situations that you just need to find ways
25:00
to cope and keep going. However,
25:04
there's a lot of guilt in that. So I
25:07
feel guilt has been
25:10
like inserted to our culture. So
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even when we're trying to be resilient, there's a lot
25:18
of guilt that enters and distorts what
25:21
we're trying to build. So I
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feel it's important in our process of
25:29
resilience to work together again in community so we
25:33
can point it out. Hey, is this real? Is this what God
25:36
is saying? Or this is false guilt trying
25:40
to distort you from doing what, what you need to do.
25:44
Yeah. Right now. And when you say guilt, what do you mean by that? Like,
25:47
what does that look like? Yeah, so I
25:51
think in general rest, it's not very popular in
25:54
our society. Sure. Especially in our culture, for
25:58
you to rest is like betrayal
26:02
because it's not only you in survival mode, like there's a
26:06
whole community that depends on you. So for you to
26:10
rest, it means you're sacrificing the
26:14
security of other people. Sure. That's
26:19
heavy. It is. It is scary. I can only imagine
26:23
how then important it is for, like you said, space
26:26
for silence, to just be. And that, no, you don't have to—
26:30
people don't have to perform or,
26:34
you know, kind of translate into the culture, or just
26:37
to be and to feel like they can
26:42
exist and, and like let the guard down a little bit, or like just like
26:45
take a breath. Yeah, like even not long
26:49
ago, the small town where I grew up, they went
26:53
through major floods. So
26:56
literally houses covered in water. So
27:00
people need to use whatever they can to take out
27:04
water. They're not even eating because they are just trying
27:08
to survive, to take their belongings. So in
27:11
a context like that for you to say, I just need
27:15
time alone and being silent. No, you need
27:19
to be there with everyone else. Yeah. Helping
27:23
to keep people alive. So it's that mindset
27:27
that enters your brain, and that's how you relate
27:31
rest with being lazy, with being
27:35
selfish, like all these things that you don't even realize. But
27:39
Those experiences are what build your sense
27:42
of identity and your sense of
27:46
teamwork, but in not in the best way possible sometimes. But I
27:50
was saying like the guilt, like you can't stop, you need to help
27:53
because there's people dying. Mm-hmm.
27:57
Yeah. Something I'm wondering, Vanessa, is
28:01
through all of these experiences immigrating to Canada
28:05
and seeing the need for, for safe, healthy
28:10
community, how has your understanding of God changed
28:13
or just developed, I guess, over that time?
28:17
I would say it has
28:22
deepened, like changing my perspective from, of
28:26
rest from a Bible perspective, like going
28:30
through deep waters in the scripture and
28:34
just finding over and over again
28:37
rest as holiness, that for me was a
28:42
major shift in my relationship with God and in my point
28:45
of view of him. Like, if
28:49
he is so into rest and he
28:53
is good, he's holy, why am
28:56
I struggling so much? To see rest as something
29:00
good and necessary for healing.
29:04
Yeah, so much that you've experienced and
29:08
just are like, have processed. I, I really want to read your book because I
29:12
just, even in how you're describing like the inward journey
29:15
that's happening while you're experiencing something like
29:19
outwardly or, you know, in life, it's so
29:23
moving. Yeah, I would say you don't need to be Latin
29:27
American to enjoy the book. Yeah, it's a journey
29:31
through the, the gospel, so beginning to end
29:35
throughout the gospel, and just seeing God in
29:39
a different way that maybe you haven't seen him.
29:43
So even if you're not a migrant, I say, I would say you will
29:47
like the book and you will, you would find something to be
29:51
inspired of. And if you know someone in your community that
29:54
speaks Spanish, I think it will help you to relate even
29:58
more and just to, I don't know,
30:02
open space for them to share about their culture. Yeah.
30:05
Just speak Spanish with them if you can. Just like
30:09
saying hola, hi. That would mean like, oh, wow, they're
30:12
trying to be closer to
30:16
me. Those are some great practical tips. Are there any other,
30:20
I guess, practical things you would share with those who, like you
30:23
said, aren't Latino to help them maybe
30:28
understand what it's like to kind of step into the shoes of somebody
30:32
else? If you're not Latino and you know people, I think what we
30:36
can do as a church is
30:39
just see like every culture is a part of
30:43
the puzzle of God. Yeah, I explored this a little bit
30:47
in the book. Like, there's a reason why God made
30:51
us different. Yeah, so we need to talk to each other so
30:55
we can learn other faces
30:59
or other aspects of God.
31:02
For example, we Latinos are very
31:05
into celebration. We love to celebrate. We're
31:09
loud. Like, we love food in our Spanish group, our church,
31:13
our local church. They tend to be very surprised that we always
31:17
have food, and not food like snacks, no, like, I
31:20
mean a full meal. I love it. Like
31:23
it's Thanksgiving, like every week is Thanksgiving. So it's
31:27
like we're very into celebration.
31:32
And in the Bible, there's a lot of celebration. Yeah. And there's a lot
31:35
of holiness through celebrations. Right. Through sitting on
31:39
the table and sharing. Meals. That is,
31:43
I think so, uh, a rebelling part of God,
31:46
that section of our culture. At the same
31:50
time, here in Canada, I can see there's a lot of
31:55
respect for autonomy, to let everyone be
31:58
themselves, that maybe in our cultures is not as
32:02
big or relevant. And that is so important as
32:06
a church as well, like Yes, we're the same
32:09
body, but in our same body we have different people and we need to
32:13
respect them and understand that they have autonomy to do some
32:17
things different, right? That's so
32:21
good, Vanessa. Thank you so much for all that you've shared
32:25
today. I know anyone who listens is just going to be stirred,
32:29
I think, in their heart to think about what they've
32:33
experienced or what others maybe close to them have
32:36
and really, my prayer is that people will challenge themselves
32:40
to, to connect and to see the other, to see the
32:44
person who maybe they don't normally see, and to
32:48
understand how they can create a space that feels like home for others in
32:51
their life too. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for
32:55
having me. The stories we share here
32:59
remind us that care doesn't have to be perfect to be
33:03
powerful. It just has to be present. Neighborly is an initiative of
33:07
Care Impact, a Canadian charity equipping churches,
33:10
agencies, and communities with tech and training to care better
33:14
together. Visit careimpact.ca. Or to find out more about the
33:19
podcast, sponsorships, being a guest, or just dropping us a line,
33:22
visit neighborlypodcast.ca. We'd love to hear from you.
33:26
Check the show notes for the link. Or hop on our Care Impact Podcast
33:30
group on Facebook to join our podcast community. I'm
33:34
Johan. Thanks for listening and keep being the kind of neighbor someone will
33:38
never forget in a good
33:53
way. Is turning over tables,
33:57
breaking off chains. When I see you in
34:01
a stranger, I'm no longer a slave.
34:04
Turning
34:06
over tables, tearing
34:10
down walls, building under
34:14
bridges between
34:19
us all.