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Between the Testaments · Sacrilegious Discourse - Bible Study for Atheists

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Husband.
• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, what the fuck are we talking about today?
• 0:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think we're getting into a little bit more history.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like we've been a little bit absent here with regard to the podcast, man.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we keep saying we're gonna get better and then we do for a minute and then we don't, but really, there's a lot of stuff going on in our lives.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we're getting there and then we're doing history.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we'll tell us about what we're doing.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that was a good wife was waving me along.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: I get the fuck out.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't give a shit about us just just move along Tell them what we're doing.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's get on it.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why have come on?
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's do it.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what are we doing?
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing after macadoodles.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's literally what I named the document.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Got it, got it.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: That I took notes on after macadoodles.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: As I said in our discord, because this is Tuesday, as we're recording this, we're doing a live, as we do every Tuesday at 10 p.m. Stern on discord.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I told them that we did cover a large swath of history in a previous Tuesday deep life kind of thing.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did and we talked about Greece's baby during that time period and stuff like that because I'm very interested in that how do we get from the end of the old testament to the beginning of the new testament.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's like 400 years of
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: like they call it that the silent years, or 400 years of silence, right?
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because no new profits pop up and all that.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we did do like a large cover of that.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now we've done the Macadoodles mostly.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We still have a couple more episodes to go.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part, we're done with the Macadoodles.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: God was on pause.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to know,
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: What?
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then like, and what happened after the macadudos?
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, because that means somewhere in there, we, you know, eventually we then Jesus.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Jesus.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels like another thing I said was, I'm not ready for Jesus.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're about to do the Jesus thing.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm not ready.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not ready.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't know why Jesus.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Where, where did Jesus come in?
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not feeling like, I mean, I'm still Jewish.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not Jesus.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we get the
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: I know that coming to Jesus' moment for our podcast.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is because, because, like, I know that the Macadoodle's wins, so for a minute,
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Judaism is like on top like to know we run we rule our own land until for like five minutes they're all good in the world yeah but then Jesus and I'm like how do we go from that has many in victory to the Jesus Jesus I'm just not I'm not there I don't feel Jesus in my heart.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: With stuff Jesus into the center is so much Jesus Christ.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure it's fuck half.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: All right are you ready to go over this?
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure it's fuck am.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: She'll fuck you!
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's go do it.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: for Matt could do it all or the between that and after Matt could do that's the one yeah so we're doing the after Maca doodles bit even though we're not done with Maca Maca to be used yet geez I can't even you almost got me said because but Maca doodles so much more fun than Maca because I just try to keep I'm the straight man you know you are the straight keep the
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the buy in your street.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in the comic thing, you know?
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're both ways though.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the thing.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Macabeean Revolt happened in the second century BCE.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The birth and then subsequent ministry era of Jesus did not happen until like the first century BCE and then later into the early first century.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: Mummy the birth happened in the first place for sure, right?
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like this 3 to 400 year period.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's like what is a 3 to 400 or just a couple hundred.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if the McBeam Revolt was in the second century, oh, which would be like, you need to take it or something.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, all right.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Late first, early first, yeah.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, all right.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: So it does, it does, yeah.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, it's, no, that that's fine.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Three to four.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was just trying to get in my head.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking absolute value of numbers where you put the bar on either side of the integer.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're going up as high as a hundred.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: low is no we're going up as high as oh positive hundreds.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, slow as negative two.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Got it.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I said three to 400 years.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they just call it the 400 years of silence.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because why not nothing ever happened over there.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: God just disappeared 400 years.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like in the movie Ghostbusters when
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: he's going into her game as apartment and like he's you know gonna look in her bedroom and she's like but nothing ever happened in there and then he's like what a crime yeah yeah so there's a brief period of Jewish independence under the Heismanans which we're about to get to in our breakthrough we haven't quite got there but we know it's common yeah
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, there's an intense civil war and there's corruption in the priesthood.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to be a thing that we we won't read about too much got in the macaduro so they get there independence and fuck it up.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they have freedom for like five minutes.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Rome barges in and takes over.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to happen.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get the rise of hered the great.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I'll talk about him a little bit in a minute.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to see the major development of a bunch of Jewish sects.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, and the Zealot-type resistance.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had no idea.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to talk about them only very slightly, but I think that already that's what I want to talk about next Tuesday is those guys, because Pharisee said you see S and E zeal it.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I mean, that's interesting.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's enough itself.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, like little groups of of of Jewish people that are like different types.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we're just Jewish.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were different types of Jewish.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: We've wanted to do that before.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the Old Testament was filled with like, I mean, held north and south, um, uh, Israel was like split in the two types of set.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got the ones that are like, after the diaspora.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That asked for a diaspora.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like there's your, you know, Babylonian Jews versus your Egyptian Jews versus your Judean Jews.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then all arguing about who's the biggest Jew who's the most Jew like your Jewish Judaism isn't Jewish enough for us.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: So if we can kind of want to think it's that they're going to argue about what their religion means and it sounds like that is what we do with today weird weird.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so people argue in over religion got it.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm that's where, you know, one of them morphed into Christianity.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, because yeah, um, there's also going to be more than Christian Rangers.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Might be more than Christian Rangers.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's also a growth of
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: some type of like spiritual leader, but no like there's gonna be one any minute.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like hey, we've got all these prophecies that say it's gonna happen.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that dude needs to happen.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And shit is bad right now.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we really need this guy.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's bound to happen any second because shit is so bad.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's where they're at.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a pucalyptic thought.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like the world is about to end.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Show our Savior's coming any second now.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, there's a lot more angels and demons and resurrection ideas during this time period.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, where is there's not the biblical stuff that will test them in New Testament.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so there's no like, um, canon history from this time period.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of just people running around like chickens with their head cut off screaming about all these different stories and myths and legends like they're just drumming up.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: They got their sandwich forage and the end is nice.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they all are telling a story.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and we've got like we've kind of commented in second macabees, which we're reading right now about how it's turning like some of the theme of it is swinging a little bit further towards the Christian ideas of what Christ of voice and that's what Christianity is you know like reflecting the time period yeah you can kind of see some of those changes happening in that book.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been really interesting over the time that we've been reading the Bible and placing the different books in history throughout to be able to see how the writing changes and how the style of writing changes to reflect the history of the people in the moment that they're in.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to actually be like, this seems a lot more like XYZ.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then to do a deep dive and go,
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's been really cool.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Ready in our discord points out.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're getting close to the zero year.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: So obviously the Messiah's got to come.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's got to come.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, because clear notes is going to happen.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: If it's not in the zero year.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Otherwise, how are we going to have, you know, this is your year?
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happens in zero?
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was really disappointed to learn that Jesus wasn't pouring on the zero year.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that was so disappointing to me.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I learned that, I was like, then what are we doing here?
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what even is this your ear like what the fuck is that I'm gonna I'm gonna have to do like a calendar check as some point and like talk about What what even is that who's in charge of this shit this math is so fucking bad I don't understand it like we just arbitrarily just were like and okay Everything before this is a negative you know BC BC Like why why why why why why that doesn't make sense to me
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that was happening while the spread of Greek language and culture is still happening.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we covered that in our Greece episode.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Greece, so baby, all of that was going on in Greek.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Language was still like one of the main ones, you know, in this part of the world.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's still spreading.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're Greek culture is still spreading.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is at the same time that Rome is taking over.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got Greece and Rome.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: So Greece culture is prevalent, but Roman military prowess is also very prevalent.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Greek culture and language is so important that they stress that.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's also the production of a bunch of Jewish writings that are super important background for the New Testament, even though they don't show up in the Bibles, not in all the Bibles.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Macabee's, for example, you know?
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: um, in traditional Protestant Christianity, this whole time period, that's where we get the phrase the 400s silent years.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in Catholic and Orthodox Christianity, it's less silent because we have books like First and Second Macbees.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: They also have Suraj wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judas.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are ones that we wanted to read eventually, but we're not
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, not in our normal run through.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to like read all of that before we jump into the new system.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's just two.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it'd be like five more years before we got to the new test event.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, like I do want to read them, but we'll have to work that in somehow.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so those are part of Catholic and Orthodox Christianity scripture.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the gap is not quite as blank for them as it is for Protestants.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now in Jewish tradition, it's not just like the Old Testament happened and then suddenly Jesus, right?
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they don't even acknowledge that Jesus is like,
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, they acknowledge he was a prophet, but that's as far as he's not the prophet.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's just one of many.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's still fully the second temple period during that 400 years.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, with a huge amount of religious development that is later remembered through Hanukkah, which we've read about in the Macadoodles.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, sectarian memory, apocalyptic literature, and then eventually we get a lot of rabbinic tradition.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the rabbis will,
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: write their thinkings and their ideas and stuff.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a lot of that.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But still exist.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's some really important stuff that even goes up through modern age with some of that stuff.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: They keep the Jewish people keep writing.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which I really appreciate.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think is cool.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I do too.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's adaptable, I guess.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that was a word.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a growing.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's never growing religion.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're always grappling with what their faith means and what anybody in any given moment meant when they said a certain thing a certain way.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate the questioning that they do.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is cool to me.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So historically speaking, my question was, right, so, but what happens after macadudos, though?
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Specifically.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, we've got, like, I just gave you the broad list, like, very, like, all that stuff that I said, that's a short answer.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But to just go into a little bit more depth, okay?
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the macabees do win sort of, okay?
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: The revolve began in 167 BCE under Matthias, which we know because of Brad and his sons, particularly Judas Macabees, right?
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: The temple is rededicated in 164 BCE and that was the origin of Hanukkah.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We remember that.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But full independence did not happen immediately.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Salaisid control lingered for a while.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the Salaisid was remembered all the different Greeks that were fighting over the whole of that whole area.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because of Alexander the Great when he died, he left
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: everything.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, he left a vacuum and then also he didn't have any one particular air so it went to several like I think five different airs.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: The land was split or those four, but I thought it was five.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's four or five different Greek guys went on around trying to take control of everything.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was the Salay you said empire and then they were all like running around trying to do stuff.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: and true has many and rule consolidated it later.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So by 141 BCE, Simon, who is Judas Metcadutal.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was trying to let you get through that one.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't get his word.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't get his name out, so I thought I was like, you know what, just make a doodle.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Judas's brother Simon Simon says, is he gets recognized as the high priest and the ruler.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And remember, that was a big fucking deal because they had tried to keep their religion out of their politics kind of, like,
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least in name, they had it separated because the political leader is leading the people and describing the laws for the people and enforcing everything for the people, but an answer is to the people, but the religious leader was the speaker for God and interpreted the laws that God ordained and
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: tried to lead them that way.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they had tried to keep them very separate.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was a big fucking deal when Simon's like, I'm both.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that did not go over well.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That effectively marks the start of the independent has many in state, though.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when Simon put on both hats at the same time.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Boom, that's the first day of the hazminan state.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Because Simon says.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because Simon says.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the heroic underdog freedom fighters.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Become Babababam, the ruling dynasty.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: For five minutes.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:57
  [UNKNOWN]: Okay.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then we've got the Heismanan dynasty, Jewish independence, yay, but with problems, because they were corrupt AF, okay?
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were not good leaders.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Heismanans, which would be all of the descendants of the macabees.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So not just like Simon, but like everybody who came after him.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but in the grand scheme of what we've been talking about with regard to the Bible, it, you know, feels a lot like it does.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all around up and say, all right, y'all ruled yourselves for a good half hour.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, shit, when we were in the Old Testament going through like the kings and stuff like that chronicle hundreds of hundreds of times.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're just like, they're every chapter was like,
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: another hundred years ago.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a century here, a century there.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you guys ruled yourself for one century.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's nothing.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't mean to be mean, Mr. Hasman Ann, sir.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: But go, go read your book.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they ruled themselves for about a century.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the last substantial period of Jewish self-ruled before Rome.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why, but like when I read that sentence, like that struck me.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like damn that was like the beginning in the end for that.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, well, they've had a lot of turmoil.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: They've had a lot of beginnings and ends of a rule and not rule.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: And.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, the Babylonian exile, like, I mean, even among their own tribes, they've had separate kingdoms.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's been a lot of turmoil in their world over the time that we've been reading about them.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of it was self-wrought, but a lot of it wasn't.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody over there would be fighting over land in God, you know?
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody wants water.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's mostly what it comes down to, like, hydra sharables, you know.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, definitely hide all of your asshira poles.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Except for the one that you keep in your pocket.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody has a pocket of sharables.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it vibrates.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So during this time period when they're like taking care of their own beeswax, they expand their territory extremely aggressively.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't shock me, but also so okay, so then you're not just taking care of your own beeswax.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're taking everybody else's beeswax.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Just like anybody else.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they were, they were just like everybody else.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: When we were listening to the first macabees, actually, and now what we've been reading in second macabees, they do seem a little concrete.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they seem, they seem a little...
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're so aggressive.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Drop with themselves is to how...
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Awesome.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: They are, I'm like, they're not happy with where they're at.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: They want to, they want to expand their territory.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: They want, they won't work.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't just want freedom.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They want the freedom to own everybody else and all the things and rule the planet.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which wouldn't be that big a deal because everybody else wants that too.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, everybody wants to rule the world.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Except that we're reading their book.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody does want to rule the world and that is a song.
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's just that we're like led to believe from outside, reading all of this that they're just to put up on people and everything bad happens to them.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, hmm, I've been reading.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they did bring a lot of this on themselves.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They did pick fights with bigger people.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you cannot.
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: But totally today, I ran, had it come in.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I have said it before.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do not make me defend shitty people.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stop, stop, stop, I'm sorry.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: I hadn't thrown out there like, it's fair that today's Israel, right?
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: They've been, they committed genocide.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Today's Israel is the fucking Tasmanian.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're co-opting us into fighting a war with Iran for them.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I agree, the people that run or bought this point ran, a ran were our crappy people, you know, like they kill protesters, they do awful things.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: But did we need to get involved?
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: It was this our fight.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were gonna get involved.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why was it now when the Epstein files were thing?
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Winged.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why was it so quick?
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look over here instead of there.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it feels like we're very much being pulled along by Israel right now.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Israel is determining our, yeah, a lot of our foreign policy at the moment, because there being has manands, they are, they're, they're being the has manands.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: They, like, gains political freedom and strength in their own little corner of the world.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not enough.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have to go kill a bunch of everybody else and take a bunch of everything else.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not cool, man.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it did.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, I've got no problem with a country defending themselves.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've got no problem with supporting Israel and defending themselves defending them.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Defending not picking a fight, right?
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then helping them destroy and decimate and, you know, let's do a genocide on people.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not, I didn't sign up for that, you know?
• 22:32
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they expand their territory aggressively and they combine high priesthood and political kingship and they force some of their neighboring peoples into joining their practices and Judaism.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so they force their religion on others.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they get involved in Hellenistic-style power politics.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they're like, we don't want to be Greece.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously because we're Jewish and Greece is Greece and we're not.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're Judeans.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to be Greece, but we do like the way they rule and we do want their land.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to negotiate with them and also we will kill them when it's convenient.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they get super involved in that.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Partly they were kind of like drawn into it because they were already under Greek rule on and off, but I don't know, I'm just like, you'll need to fucking relax.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, power corrupts, right, like the more power you have, the more it's going to cause problems, the more it ends.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is all a really big deal because originally the macabees bought because foreign powers corrupted the temple on the priesthood, right?
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then their own descendants start looking suspiciously just like the power hungry rulers that everyone hated.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: So basically whoever has more power is shitty to the person that doesn't have power.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost like they're seeing might makes right.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, yeah.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, we hold the talking stick and we will bash you with it.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, that's, that's been the case with most of the world, most of the years, most of the time.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which means that anybody who has that mentality is not fully evolved.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, because it's true.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you don't have a live-in-let live mentality and you just have to own somebody else's fucking land, you're still childish.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're still childlike, but in the worst possible ways.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're throwing a fit with nuclear weapons because you didn't get the biggest piece of the pie.
• 24:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, and I missed the days, you know, just bringing this back to modern times.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I missed the days when we had, you know, a treaty with a brand to keep them getting nuclear weapons, right?
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, we tried to keep the peace because it keeps, I'll shit ton of people from dying.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to be fair that came after we invaded them like the first time around.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't it?
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking of the other.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking of the other Middle Eastern.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: That we thought are so strong to deal with them to keep them from getting nuclear weapons.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I get all of our places where we step into other people's business.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Compute.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this whole thing created legitimacy disputes and priestly infighting because, you know, some of the priests were like, wait, what?
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what we're supposed to do this.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Class conflict was a huge problem.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And seeds for all the later sex that I told you about, the fair season,
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: all the other ones that I can't remember how I was looking at them.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look, we're about to talk about them.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zellitz.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like that was an actual group, not just a word.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which that's fun, I didn't know that.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: That is fun.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So during the later Hazminan and early Roman periods, Judaism is not just one united thing.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like, hey, we're all Judaism and we're all Jews.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: The end.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they had all these different things going on.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's this whole ecosystem.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you could kind of belong to several different things, happening.
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: to take along to more than one group.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of, because it's dependent on your focus and it's dependent on where you lived, geography wise, it's dependent on your class, your politics, like, there's a lot happening.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just like,
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: with a, you know, you ask a Christian, where do you go to church on Sunday and that answers your question?
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But wasn't just like that, you know?
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the Pharisees.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's the name I'm most familiar with.
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The focus was on the Torah and oral tradition and interpretation.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were like,
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: just your main group, your main guys.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they're the ones that we're most familiar with today.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were more flexible about applying holiness outside the temple.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: They believed in things like resurrection, angels, and afterlife broadly speaking.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which I didn't know.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: They became hugely important because after the Temple fell in 70 CE, rabbinic Judaism grew mostly out of pharesic type traditions.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: So they're very influential in what modern Judaism is in it.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, yeah, that is a thing.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then there's the Sadducees.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Sadducees were a priestly slash aristocratic elite group.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were like,
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: over more into the hard religion corps.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were strongly tied to the temple establishment.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were more conservative about accepted authority.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were often associated with the written Torah as opposed to remember the other group by 12 years before these guys.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: These guys are like, we have a 10.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is, it's got to be in the book to be, that's got it's, this is the one that's written down.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: They would be your constitution or originalist guys who interpreted
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: as convenient, and they're like, no, that's what it says, or they would be your baptist, it's in Bible.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it says in Bible.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just what says right there.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and they can find what page proves their point.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even though I can find a page that probably contradicts, but you're, you're not reading the one I want, though, right?
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I said, right, I'll said so.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were famously linked in later sources with rejecting resurrection stuff.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is where you get like your
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is coming, Jesus isn't coming, Jesus is resurrected, know he's not, yes he is, know he's not, that's not real.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's not Jewish stuff.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about?
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: These guys are like, absolutely fucking not.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is no resurrection stuff.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is not Jewish.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: They also rejected the angel heavy doctrines that the Pharisees were into.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: So they were like, they were like into the boring religion.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Pharisees were the ones, yeah, I mean, you can see that.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the Pharisees were the ones that kind of like, they were like ripe for Christianity.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were into resurrection and angels after life, holiness.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like these are very Christian terms.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were ripe for that, okay?
• 30:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were ready for Jesus.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unlike me, I'm not, me at all.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the Sadducees were like, that is so not Jewish of you, like what even?
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what it says.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this group largely vanished after the temple was destroyed because their whole power base was temple centered.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's sad.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it kind of is.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you say like that?
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sadducees.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, looking at me like waiting for me to get it and I'm like, I don't get it.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these were like your hardcore.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, readers of the text, and then when they're building got smashed with the Hulk smash, they were like, one poem, I guess we'd I know.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So okay, bye.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, that's that.
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's sad.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's sad.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: You see.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then we get the SNES.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: The label is a little messy.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: This might summarize more than one group.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to be very broad here.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they were separatists, they were purity-obsessed communities, they were often associated with, these fuckers did not eat the shrimp.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: They would probably kill you.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, there's not total certainty on this, but they're often associated with like the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Kumran, not Korean.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a separate word.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a group of separatists called the Kumran.
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And these guys are part of that group, which I'm telling you like the more that I read about all these, the more I was like, I am studying these guys so many fucking rabbit holes.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're talking about these different sex next week.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they were apocalyptic as hell.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were like super into it.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these guys were also like Jesus becoming.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He called me in any minute now, because we've reached the end of the world.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But these guys literally had the sandwich boards and the the bells they did they did and they wrote all that shit down and then they put it and they were like we're going to call these the dead sea scroll That's what happened.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what happened.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, they were the guys writing everything down and like yeah They sold temple leadership as super corrupt, which it was that makes sense for somebody who thinks that all like that's that's living that that pop galactic
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Vision lifestyle type thing.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to be fair again, it was.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, that was kind of like if you look at people that are apocalyptic in our culture with regard to religion, they very much see religious culture unless it's theirs specifically.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: They see it as very corrupt and very wrong.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: And they don't agree with it.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like their pastor, their person is correct and, you know, couldn't possibly be wrong.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: But everybody else, everybody else sucks.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, definitely.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's for sure.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's very that that whole culture is very much like that.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: In my opinion.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I just didn't general.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: In general, yeah.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then we've got the zealots, okay?
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, we're gonna speak broadly because this describes more than one loose pocket of people, okay?
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were not always a single-need party at first, but they were all anti-Roman, okay?
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were all anti-collaboration, militant,
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so they were like your separatists like, uh, with guns.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hence the words, you know, that's where the words all that comes from.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because these guys were all in.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're like absolutely not and I'll kill you.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, these.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: mattered a lot in the first century CE because they exploded into revolt in 66 CE, okay.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these guys brought the fight.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So by the time Jesus showed up, Judaism was not a monolith.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did not mean any one thing.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Got it.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't really know that.
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, but it makes sense if they're already splintering to have it splinter into a whole new religion, almost kind of bits the narrative of the time.
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it wasn't that it like grew into a new religion, it was just that one of the sets.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: lasted.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: As did another like a couple of them lasted.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: This was just a fucking group of Jewish people that believe something different than the other groups of Jewish people.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there we go.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's the resurrection.
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's the thing.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's go with it.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: So basically, we're Jewish just because of Christians, because you know, Christ.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, we're not, I did not we, but no Christians.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Judaism kind of like they're like,
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've told the story of our people, and this is, you know, what happened.
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Christians are like, and that's where the story stopped and where the new one starts.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you are all right in that is the history of our people, but it's not the whole story.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like you guys were the trailer and were the actual home movie.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: You haven't really got into it yet, but I feel like
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: because there was all this corruption and different things going on, and then Rome comes into the picture, right?
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: In the past, Judy, the Jewish people would have split up, and they have split up, right?
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: They've split into different groups, completely, different kingdoms, all kinds of shit, right?
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: But because there's corruption, and people are just wanting to be corrupt, and or the Romans are ruling, these sex are allowed to live next to each other in a way, in a sense.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that almost is the entire breeding ground for what Christianity becomes.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly what happened.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's exactly what happened.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm not going to get into it right now,
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: carries about like where Islam fits into all of this and that's several hundred years later looking at both of them and saying you both got part of the story right but here is actually the rest of it.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Got it, but they're still.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: controversy and what is the correct beliefs even hundreds of years later after all this?
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even though they all lean on the early part of Jewish history, they just where it goes from there is different.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Plus, I mean, they really wanted to like, you know,
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's true though.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, that was always true.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just saying it's true.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fucking all of them is right.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of them from the beginning.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Epstein's back back then, too.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, listen, what?
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Men throughout history have always wanted to be allowed to fuck little girls.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's ultimately always been true.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: damn near the basis for an entire religion that springs from christianity and basically it's basically my entire religion, but you know
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically like men would say, it's biology and I'm like, yeah, we're all just fucking apes and it can't be controlled and that's why men are rapies.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I will say it again, like I said so many times before, if you can arise above your fucking biology and not be rapy,
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: then you don't get to vote or drive cars or have a license or own guns like I believe you.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you tell me you cannot help yourself because you just have to fluck so much because that's the way animals do.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then I believe you.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I totally believe you.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're an animal and therefore you're a less evolved human and you don't get human rights.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we get to keep you in the backyard on a fucking leash, like we do with our god damn dogs, right?
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I might have feelings about that.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, as you said, so the new testament arguments make a lot more sense.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now,
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: that we know that Jesus was not born into just like, look at there's Jewish stuff and then Jesus.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was not ever that simple, which again, I did not realize.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he was born and stepped into and already very, very heated, inter-Jewish debate.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that matters.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I might be wrong about this, but I feel like I've heard before that there was a lot of
• 39:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: The next, the next, the next, you know, what did the Messiah, the Messiah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I I heard that as well.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how true that is.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I reckon that we'll probably do a deep dive when we get into more Jesus, yeah, but no, that that that's definitely something I'm interested in because like I've heard that before.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Same, same.
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then Rome showed up, right?
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were in everybody fucking day.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rome is like, guess what, bitches?
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Greece is out.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Greece is like, oh, but we did alphabet and in aqueducts.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Or was that Roman?
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Romans, what the aqueducts are going to leave.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the German, I just literally said the Germans and stand at the Greeks, forgive me.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody across the board was
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the Greeks were like, the science and math and philosophy and democracy, like they were trying to bring it, you know?
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're cool, man.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had all these smart things, like, talked about the golden age of Greece, and then Rome was like, yeah, we don't fucking care.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll take that, thank you.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, right.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is so awesome, and it is mine now.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, can you apply math to conquering people?
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Great, we'll use it.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in 63 BCE, Roman general pumpy,
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is pronounced pompi pompi.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He intervened.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: You actually look up a pronunciation of a day.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm super impressed.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: You right now.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised because I was like, what is this cool run thing?
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that Korean and then so I had no it's not it's a group of people separatists.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm kind of I'm I'm I'm impressed.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's Pompey.
• 41:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is a whole new wife.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: We got here today.
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I just I'm really wanted to say Pompey and that's so much more fun.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so Roman general Pompey intervenes in intervenes, sorry, in a hasmanian civil war.
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: He catches Jerusalem.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was in 63 BCE.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Go Pompey.
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so I mean, don't go Pompey.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, fuck you, Pompey.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, Pompey, he's the Roman guy.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so like we're approaching the zero here and he steps in and he's like, thank you.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He has many in civil war for splitting everybody.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would like Jerusalem now.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is mine.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so Rome takes it.
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: That basically ends real Jewish independence.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, when you said, go Pompey, I don't think that you meant that as enthusiasm.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's sad.
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's sad, you see.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: My god, you're already it.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Judea at that point becomes a roaming client state.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not like this is anything new to them.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: They've been fucking clients' tastes of so many different kingdoms.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this is, this is, to know what I had at this point.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like we're able to look back and go, oh, okay.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was the one though.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: What was that movie?
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Is it home where the people, where the aliens always get conquered by,
• 42:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, you guys, if you haven't seen the movie, home, it is adorable and enjoyable and so fun.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen it multiple times.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's never not fun.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like they must have had the Old Testament mine when they were writing that.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: These people are always getting conquered, you know?
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like the leader has the shusher.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, yeah.
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: He hits you on the head with the shush stick.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of the speaking stick.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, he's got the fact that J-Lo was involved in it should not deter you from saying it.
• 43:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, not everybody likes what's our name, Jennifer, shit.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lopez Jennifer Lopez.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, JLo.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I know JLo is.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: I just couldn't do it.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, like, who's a JLo now.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's just, you know, Ben Affleck's on again off again wife.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that one.
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, she actually sings a song in it that I really like.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's in my playlist.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll probably share it later.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just because I mentioned it in the discord.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: You mean?
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it's a really good movie home.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called home.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like go home like like H.O.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: M.E.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: like house.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think we got this.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to see it a lot because I want everybody to have a chance to write it down and go pull it up and watch it.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called home.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're hearing people that chance to write it down.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought you were like really stuck on maybe I'd need to pronounce it like 15 times.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, also because I don't always come across clearly.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just wanted everybody to understand what I was saying.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of the people.
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: They might have done some of the same Pharisees.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck off.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's on this point on.
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: After Judea got hit up by Rome, hey, everything, everything is filtered through taxation, client kings that come in and out of the area, priestly collaboration, so like the priests are not like their own thing, their part of Rome.
• 44:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of resentment from the people and this feeling of when the hell is God gonna fix this.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's like, the sounds like it's the same fucking thing over and over and over and over again.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of the problem because it has happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, God's going to come when I'm looking at my watch that hasn't been invented yet.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, hello.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to check it out.
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's a literal expectation because as you said, yeah, it's happened over and over again.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And God always saves their bacon somehow, right?
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Except they don't eat bacon.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know why God would save us.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know?
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't eat bacon yet.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Soon.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: soon they can be big.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that is like super important in understanding where the testament starts off or where the new testament starts off.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just going to talk about herid the great a little bit.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's the the Roman guy that gets put in place as keen.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he ruled from 37 to 4 BCE because you know, we're moving closer to zero.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Rome eventually backs hered the great as King of Judea.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they placed them in there.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, okay, you're going to be the King for us over here.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: So he's our new anti-acus.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: But for Rome.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly exactly.
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a dividate king.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's not part of the dividate king.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was placed there.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he's he's a Roman king basically.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's and I do man Client ruler okay
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: with Roman support.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was placed there again.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not one of the Judeans.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's brilliant.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's paranoid.
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's brutal.
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's a master builder.
• 46:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
• 46:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also probably a master bader.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Probably a bobbins.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a bob builder.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He massively renovates and expands the second temple because he's like, okay, I'm going to be a good king though.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's build a shed.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, so they're letting them have the religion then.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe kind of some.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, let's do this second temple thing.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the temple that Jesus knows is basically King Herod's temple complex.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, remember, this is like the same, like we know that later Jesus comes in is like, you guys are doing the church, but you're doing it wrong and you're like doing money lending stuff in here and he like throws tables.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we haven't read that yet.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't started the New Testament, but we do know that that's the thing Jesus is a little pissy about.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, that's definitely a famous scene.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he's like you're doing your religion.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: King Herred like allowing them to have their religion is kind of like a stretch.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's letting them have the image of their religion, but he's feeding into his own way.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he's feeding into the corruption and allowing it to exist as he wants it to exist.
• 48:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Correct.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: With corrupt leaders.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: What they would, what many Jewish people would consider corrupt leaders?
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he created huge architectural projects because as I said, he's a builder.
• 48:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Got it.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And an architect.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, he's like putting a lot of time and effort into these people.
• 48:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants me to remember it as a great king.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Great king here.
• 48:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, he was an architect.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I mean, like, he's like, he built buildings kind of like he planned them.
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Trump does.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's an architect, but you know, well, Trump would say, yeah, I built this because I picked out the goal for it.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the shit that I bought from IKEA.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: This guy actually like, you know, pencil a paper drew the plans up.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he was actually involved in creating these architectural projects.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So was he a builder?
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did he get his hands dirty and like put the stones on?
• 49:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He might have like done the ceremonial first stone laying foundation.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he definitely like was very involved in the plans.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He played both Jewish legitimacy and Roman loyalty, so he wanted to be loved by all, so he was trying to be a good king for better or for worse.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the people would follow him and that would make his job as a Roman puppet easier.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was playing both sides, but he I think wasn't duplicitous in doing so.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: win both sides.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, he killed rivals though.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, let's not like I'm too I mean, that makes these your tough, you know, when he killed rivals even some family members.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Holy shit.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, I mean, this kind of, he was a good leader, but not necessarily a good guy.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was leaning towards he was nicer, but now I see it sounds kind of like a dick.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because you're confusing humanity with leadership, you can be a good leader and not be a good human.
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so he's not a good human.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he was a hell of an architect.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, I guess you can say that about Trump too.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Could you not a good human?
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't refer to himself as an architect.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a real estate.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, he's a real estate.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, right.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was trying to.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a failed business man.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: You stole that whole joke for me.
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was on his own.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's gone now.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's that one is passed.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not letting you have it.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this whole thing with him, like, oh, I'm helping you.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, oh, don't get too up at you.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will fucking kill you.
• 51:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: This led to a lot of political paranoia
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's like, don't rise up too high.
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will kill you right right.
• 51:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I want you to think I'm awesome and I want you to be awesome.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to be best, but don't be too best because I will kill you.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even if your name is Jesus, I will really kill you then.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So after Harid, like, we're gonna get into him more.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's another Tuesday.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm getting notes in my mind for what I want to talk about in the coming Tuesdays.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Going into the new testament.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I won't hear it's gonna be a big one.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to step back for just one second here.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: And remember that during the macabees, they wrote all those letters back and forth to Rome.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 51:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: But how, you know, we got your back, man.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: But like now, I'll just like, now fuck you.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got you.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, no, we're gonna take you.
• 51:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll run, run, conquer them.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and we knew that at the time.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: But like, yeah, it just, that happened.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, you guys can have it for like 100 years and then we're gonna take that shit back.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, we're almost like, hey, we're busy, so we'll let you have the image of self-rule.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, oh, okay, now, anyways, we're like, our eyes have come swung back homeward.
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And oh, I'm sorry, excuse you.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think you're doing over there with yourselves?
• 52:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're mine.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Give me.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why they put in all their little puppet kings.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So after Herid, fragmentation of that whole area, led directly to Roman rule.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which way after Herid?
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: After Herid.
• 52:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was already under rumble with her it it was under Roman rule but still separate.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then hered died or whatever like I don't know.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't cover that.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh and then they split it up and down and then fragmentation of who's going to be the new King of Judea got it right that led to Roman rule.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then the Romans just moved in.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: They were like we're not talking around with it.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're like, yeah, you're just
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he died.
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Herad died in four BCE.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're just like right at the zero.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: His kingdom got divided among heirs and eventually parts of Judea came under more direct Roman administration, which that makes sense.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the Judeans, like, some of them are like, it's so cool to be Jewish and then others are like, no, but old school and then others are like, but I really like grease though, grease is so fucking cool.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Some of the fuck you all, we're going to fight you and tear down your whatever's.
• 53:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then Rome just walks in and is like, okay, so big daddy here I died and this little corner the street is mine now and I don't really give a fuck what you are right what you are is Roman yeah shut the fuck up
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: You see the guys with the helmets and the spears and the armor and shit.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say fedora and that is absolutely wrong.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Romans never wore fedora as they could never.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't even think about fucking with us.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, we're Romans.
• 54:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who's going to fuck with the Romans and Cheering?
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went to a high school in southern Italy and our school mascot was the
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we were the brim disease insurance.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: But they look full as fuck.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why would you want to fuck with them?
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't.
• 54:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: You bet at me in my way.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, anyways.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, if you know, you know, so eventually parts of Judea come under more direct Roman administration because Rome was like, okay, we're done fucking around.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're you are Rome.
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So by six CE, so now we're past the zero year, okay?
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: And herds dead as fuck.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Herds dead as fuck, woman's in.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: The room is real in.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So by six CE, Judea is effectively a Roman province under governors and pre-facts, okay?
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that line later includes Pontius Pilate.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and we don't know a lot about him yet, but he's a big dude.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a guy.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Spoilers.
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's the immediate political setup for the new testament.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, which I'm like so glad I wanted to do a deep dive because like I didn't know all this stuff even though We have covered this time period in large.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't done this deep dive
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: to narrow it down as much.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I find it's very exciting.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not done.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm not done.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, okay.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I apologize.
• 55:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got religious and intellectual developments that happen in this whole gap.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this part is massively important.
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of new testament theology is actually second-temple Jewish theology.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 56:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So during this time period, Jewish thought develops or intensifies around the Messiah and Messiahs, kingly, priestly, prophetic expectations.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, resurrection of the dead.
• 56:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Final judgment, angels and demons, like I said, Satan becomes a more defined adversarial figure, which I didn't realize have been during this time period.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: we've got a lot of apocalyptic literature which we've been reading some of on and off, you know, history is headed toward divine intervention, like that's the read on most of the that's what apocalyptic literature means, okay.
• 56:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we've got martyrdom theology, um, faithfulness under persecution, you know, dying for a cause.
• 57:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 57:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how much do you believe, think of those seven brothers, right?
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That we just read about in second macabees, right?
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's martyrdom theology right there.
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: we're like gearing up towards that wisdom traditions and synagogue and Torah centered practice outside of the temple only life.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So living it outside of just I go to church or temple or whatever and like bearing it as your label of who you are.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: So like your identity is more and more based on your religious groupings.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these things are all over later Jewish literature and then they fucking explode in the new testament.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: These groups that we've been talking about like we we will see them all over the page.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: in the New Testament.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Got it.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important that we knew this going in because they they are mentioned a lot in the book of Matthew, which is the first book of the New Testament and these names don't come out of nowhere.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you didn't know it, it feel like they did.
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you're just really the Bible straight along.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: You'd be like, who the fuck are we talking about?
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: What is this?
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: And
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, we've been doing this long enough that, like we know, like we've been building up to this for years, years, so obviously we've kind of touched on a lot of subjects and we've been in circles where people talk about these things and bring we know a little bit more than we did when we started this whole thing for sure, but
• 58:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Even with that, if we just jumped in without covering this stuff, we just still been blindsided by a lot of it.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it would be like if we were watching a TV show and we watched like season one to in three and then we missed season four and five and came back for season six was the final season and we're like,
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who are these people?
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happened?
• 58:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we get here?
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Which we kind of just did.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: We literally realized we're rewatching all of the star tracks.
• 59:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: We were so we're in discovery now.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which we had watched.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and we just finished season one and the last half of season one.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're like, what the fuck is this shit?
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we realized that at some point somehow, we did not ever watch the second half of season one.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Before we started season two.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: There was a lot of things we were confused about in the whole series as to how they came to be, but we're just like whatever I guess.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a captain that like, we knew she was dead and then like later she's alive and there's like this Heaple relationship and we're like, what's it she did and why does it hate each other now?
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why is this love interest like I guess they broke up during the I didn't know they broke up Yeah, like and now he has a beard and they are like real weird with each other.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is happening right and we just went with it because you know I start trying to just kind of what you do and you like
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: have this acceptance.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, this would have been like that, but instead of a beloved television show, it's history and we would have not understood what was happening at all.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that every single mother fucking Bible that includes both the old and new testament should have a chapter between the two that kind of summarizes the 400 years between
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: to let you know, hey, by the way, for the dumb dumb who doesn't know, like, you know, husband and wife who are reading this straight through, and didn't realize that it's all out of fucking order and shit.
• 1:00:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a 400 year gap, and here's kind of what happens.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: that I think I think they don't count on people actually reading the Bible.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, they count on people owning the Bible and they count on people pulling out various versus, but they don't count on people actually fucking reading it.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I agree.
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: I agree.
• 1:01:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's so annoying.
• 1:01:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: I also wonder how many times throughout our podcast we've equated something from Star Trek to the Bible.
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of podcast episodes to go back through and count, but it's not it's not an insignificant number of times right.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's definitely quite a few right.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the literature written during this 400 year period is very relevant and we've like I said read some of it.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but this is the like gap where people skip it and then wonder why the new testament feels like you walked in like mid conversation because you did.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: you're like, they're just like throwing these names in people and places at you, which I know they will be, and that's part of why, because I don't know any history.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by the time the new testament starts, this is like actual recorded history.
• 1:01:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some of not the magic stuff, but why?
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like the geography and some of the like wars and like the actual eventings is like actual things that I should have an understanding of better than I do.
• 1:02:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's I think where some of my reticents to start the Jesus book is coming from.
• 1:02:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: But that's where our Q&As will be helpful even in the New Testament.
• 1:02:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll come back and we'll revisit those things.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll go over that stuff.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I love history, but even as much as I love history,
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: early Christian times in Rome.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like, I know a little bit about Roman history, but not a time.
• 1:02:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that's where some of my pushback has come like I'm already.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not ready.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not ready.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm used to not knowing, but this is coming closer to things I'm supposed to know.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess, but we've flown by the seat of our pants so far through this podcast.
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why not just continue the same thing?
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, and I understand that.
• 1:02:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm there.
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm getting there.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that like not knowing history up into this point.
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like nobody fucking knows that shit.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knows about shit that happened in the BCE's lately.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think what you're scared of more than anything is that because it is Christianity that we're starting to delve into, right?
• 1:03:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: There are a lot of people who are Christians who are going to know way more of the history of the Bible and the things that happen because it's the New Testament.
• 1:03:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because they know Christianity because they know Christianity and therefore it's things that are assumed to be known, but that's a misnomer.
• 1:03:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: We both, neither one of us, knew
• 1:03:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: much of anything about the bite, right?
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because we weren't brought up on it.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: And moreover, I don't think that a lot of the Christians actually know a lot about the Bible either.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think they pretend to know.
• 1:03:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm understanding that his is helping me gain a little bit more confidence in myself that it's okay to not know this stuff.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've said that from the beginning.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm either a scholar nor an academic.
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know this stuff.
• 1:04:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning and I will learn a fact and then forget it by the next week because that's just like who and how I am right.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like things don't stick.
• 1:04:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but I have to remember to be okay with that and sometimes my insecurity pushes back and I think that's been why I've been like really nervous about going into the new testament, but this has got me excited to do that.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, I like this is good information.
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to like repeat the books that we're not going to read right now, shake in addition to the Macadoodles.
• 1:04:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of little bits and Judith's and shit like that.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it is important that we do eventually talk about those books because they show Jewish life.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: as it was under Empire under the Roman Empire, some of it is wisdom theology.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It does get into the whole martyrdom like what we're seeing in, so that 400 years wasn't as silent as it claims to.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
• 1:05:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it really depends on who you ask.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, you know.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The resurrection hints and developments happened during that time period.
• 1:05:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: which that kind of gets to the whole martyrdom of it all, you know, the emotional and theological world that was unfolding just before the New Testament, like these extra biblical books.
• 1:05:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: tell you about all that stuff oppression is a is a big theme with with Christianity actually because it's still something that Christians claim now even though they are the dominant culture in the United States right they still claim to be an oppressed minority of people they know you guys have fucking everything
• 1:05:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: own the whole bulletin board and claim oppression if you ask them or demand even that they give you a corner.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have oppressed them by wanting a corner of their bulletin board.
• 1:06:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:06:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bookers.
• 1:06:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I might have feelings.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Catholics and Orthodox Christians would look at this.
• 1:06:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: time period, many of these books are part of their scripture, they're just standard, right?
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Protestants refer to them as the Apocrypha, and it's useful history, but not canonical, and like the book of Daniel would fall into that kind of thing.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's less Apocrypha and more the other term that I can never remember, but
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I think of one, I can't think of the other turn.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the non-biblical time.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the same historical gap is perceived very differently depending on the canon, depending on who you're asking, which religion you're asking.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's other Jewish writings that shaped the New Testament
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: not all of these were cannon but they're huge for background and that would be like Enoch and Jubilee's and Solomon.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've heard a lot about Enoch from people like that.
• 1:07:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's one of those ones that's like got some...
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: interesting stuff.
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I guess by the way, it's a long book.
• 1:07:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so these are ones that I do want to get to, but yeah, there's just too much if we want to ever get to the New Testament, which our whole original purpose was to read, quote unquote, the Bible.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which means at some point we do actually have to read the New Testament.
• 1:07:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, yeah, yeah, obviously.
• 1:07:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:07:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: We were slow rolling our way to it, but it's it's coming.
• 1:07:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of these things matter so that we understand why people expected and imminent kingdom, like it's coming any minute now, like the expectation.
• 1:07:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I cannot say that word enough, like I can't stress it.
• 1:08:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just, I wonder if God's gonna save us this time.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, no, he fucking is.
• 1:08:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He always saves us.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So of course he's coming in that also.
• 1:08:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it explains why the Christians today still have that.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like almost hard wired into their religion.
• 1:08:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:08:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like God has always
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: come for his people.
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, as Pete Higgs has said to this troops, when you get too tired of waiting for Jesus to come back, you just go and start a war and make him do it.
• 1:08:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:08:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like that's why we're doing this thing.
• 1:08:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what that's what Pete said.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what Pete said.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pete Kicks breath.
• 1:08:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:08:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that reading all of these is it will help us understand that and it is still there today in Christians not Jews as much, but I guess it depends on again, which do you ask because there is more than one sort of Jew?
• 1:09:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: there is so there is which was something that helps me under like reading these things helps me understand the Jewish perspective today of how there can be so many different sex of Judaism.
• 1:09:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I didn't know that.
• 1:09:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I had heard Hasidic Jews before.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like that was something that I had heard, you know, I still would have to dig into fine art exactly.
• 1:09:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't live in all the things.
• 1:09:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's a different group of Jewish people that do things a little bit differently, right?
• 1:09:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I knew, you know, I know there's people that are harder-line than not, you know, like the,
• 1:09:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, then Yahoo is definitely a hard-line Jewish leader, right?
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a lot of people that don't agree with in words, or softer on how everything should be done.
• 1:09:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like as far as how things should go.
• 1:09:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: So like there's definitely an idea that there are different groups of Jewish people that I've always kind of seen and that are operating in their, in their world, right?
• 1:10:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: But, but I've never understood it fully.
• 1:10:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've never dug into it enough to understand all the ins and outs of how that all works.
• 1:10:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I would say that it's been an interesting way of applying the Bible to the world today.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is helping me understand the world today better but not in the religious way that any Christian would ever, ever.
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, no, that's not what I meant.
• 1:10:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Honestly, feel like there's a lot of stuff that we have covered in the Old Testament that Christians simply don't understand how it's translating in two politics today.
• 1:10:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right now.
• 1:10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:10:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like the Old Testament is important.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's much.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe if not more, sometimes, depending on what we're talking, like specifically with what's going on with Iran and Israel right now, right?
• 1:10:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like the Old Testament and how this stuff all translates to them, that is very fucking important.
• 1:11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:11:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like it's very important.
• 1:11:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's something that is lost in context with a lot of Americans.
• 1:11:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like anybody in American leadership that is trying to get involved in the politics over there really should have taken a fucking class.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think they all need to go back school.
• 1:11:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean definitely, definitely.
• 1:11:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I really feel like a million different reasons.
• 1:11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: A million different reasons, yes.
• 1:11:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in particular, if you're going to get involved in that part of Judaism, that part of the world, you really should have taken a class in the Old Testament.
• 1:11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just listen, we're a fucking podcast at least.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: If you haven't seen the interview clips from
• 1:11:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Ted Cruz and what's that fucking right wing?
• 1:11:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Tucker Carlson oh yeah if you haven't seen the interview between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz where Tucker Carlson jumps Ted Cruz's ship for not knowing anything about her and are you serious?
• 1:12:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: you should watch it it's fucking fantastic like okay look I don't like you guys they don't make it here but Tucker Carlson
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I've got a stick.
• 1:12:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's fantastic.
• 1:12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So getting back to what we were talking about in this time period with all of these extra books that we haven't read, we get why they are expecting and a kingdom that's coming any second now.
• 1:12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why demons are suddenly everywhere?
• 1:12:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize that during this time period, like demons were just popping up on every straight corner or some shit, okay?
• 1:12:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And son of man, language is a thing that they start saying and becomes very charged.
• 1:12:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 1:12:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
• 1:12:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very charged language.
• 1:12:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Son of man.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Son of man.
• 1:12:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, purity debates get real and tense during this son of man to remind me of I'm correct about this, but Adam actually means son of man doesn't it I believe so I think that is the actual definition like that's what Adam mean to son of man I think we covered that I won't really remember I don't want sure that's true I that shouldn't be right because he was made from Clare dirt or dust or something
• 1:13:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah.
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: So there's the fuck's the son of man?
• 1:13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't fucking know.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that language becomes very important during that time period.
• 1:13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, purity debates become like super loaded and there are multiple messianic models.
• 1:13:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that gets to what you were saying where lots of people were claiming to be the messiah.
• 1:13:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the profit.
• 1:13:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one.
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 1:13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: This all of this literature that we haven't read, that's the missing bridge between the two books.
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's in traditional Judaism.
• 1:14:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: In traditional Christianity, this gap,
• 1:14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: we could talk about it, but it depends on which type of Christianity.
• 1:14:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Furn on our discord says, no, Adam just means man.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Son of man is prophecy, especially in Daniel.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, okay.
• 1:14:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
• 1:14:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: That makes sense.
• 1:14:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I was like.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: That was, that was, that was my bad.
• 1:14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was your bad.
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: I knew I had heard the terminology somewhere as couldn't remember where.
• 1:14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: CS Lewis, he, his character, the kids are son of man.
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That probably is in your head.
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: Got it.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: In the line, the witch in the wardrobe.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the kids are son of man and daughters of Eve.
• 1:14:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, that's common.
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so anyway, when we're talking about Christianity, um, it depends on what group you're asking because there's different types of Christianity.
• 1:14:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got our Protestant framing.
• 1:14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got our Catholic and Orthodox framing.
• 1:15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got our, um, you know, everybody else framing.
• 1:15:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so the Protestant framing, again, they refer to it as the 400 silent years.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:15:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, right?
• 1:15:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.
• 1:15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing ever happened in that room.
• 1:15:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is the classic evangelical line.
• 1:15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: After the last Old Testament prophet, which is usually Malachi, God gives no new prophetic revelation.
• 1:15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And nothing new ever happened.
• 1:15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then suddenly, John the Baptist appears in prophecy returns.
• 1:15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just 400 years later, for no reason.
• 1:15:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's forward.
• 1:15:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:15:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And silence means no canonical profits, no new covenant revelation, and we are all waiting on the Messiah.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know what the Jews said?
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: What?
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Please be kind, rewind.
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: anyway, they're waiting for the Messiah.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what they say.
• 1:15:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening.
• 1:16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: An important nuance here is that silence, the silent years, does not mean historically empty.
• 1:16:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like obviously things happened.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just means that there's no recognized profit, no new canonical
• 1:16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: and theology kind of stood still.
• 1:16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: History still happened.
• 1:16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Time moved, but the theology stood still.
• 1:16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: That phrase is more just a slogan than anything.
• 1:16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely not a historical description.
• 1:16:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you ask Catholics what they think of this 400-year-time period,
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: they don't really think of it as silent.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: They include several in our testimonial books in scripture, some of which we talked about.
• 1:16:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the period is not viewed as a total blank in that time frame, in that framework.
• 1:16:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: They didn't want to abort those out of the books.
• 1:17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you really say that?
• 1:17:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Cheese.
• 1:17:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
• 1:17:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was horrible.
• 1:17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: No abortion jokes.
• 1:17:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: In that framework, God is still speaking to them.
• 1:17:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, through wisdom literature, historical books like the macabees, faithfulness under persecution again, and the development of hope in resurrection and martyrdom.
• 1:17:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, these are the Catholics and the orthodox.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: yeah Christians right okay that's my second macabees becomes especially important in Catholic tradition okay we get the prayer from the dead from them which I didn't know okay and apparently we're gonna see some more resurrection themes and we've already seen the modern stuff yeah so
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: for the Catholics and the Orthodox, the line from Old Testament to New Testament has a bit more continuity.
• 1:18:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not as fake.
• 1:18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we just pass forward it over this abrupt silent period.
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Traditional Christians also often read the gap as a period of preparation.
• 1:18:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Tradition meaning Orthodox.
• 1:18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, your typical Christian, like your evangelical day.
• 1:18:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 1:18:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you were to just walk down the table.
• 1:18:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's high of preparation.
• 1:18:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: They were just prepping for Jesus the whole time.
• 1:18:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: They were like, oh, Jesus is coming.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that it's not the people.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that the people on the street then were saying, I'm prepping for Jesus.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He coming.
• 1:18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you asked Christian, like if you walked down the street today and asked your neighbors, hey, what do you think of that 400-year period?
• 1:18:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: They would say that that time period was them like,
• 1:18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: not individually prepping but sociologically prepping like there was a preparation happen happening because Jesus was coming.
• 1:19:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just didn't quite know it.
• 1:19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: They kind of knew somebody was coming.
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: They knew somebody was coming.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't know his name was you know Jesus the Christ or what the fuck up church.
• 1:19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that whole time period was just like making the bed waiting.
• 1:19:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Got it because they knew somebody was going to get the right version.
• 1:19:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Mary.
• 1:19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So to be his mom.
• 1:19:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:19:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Israel was purified by exile and empire in their mind.
• 1:19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:19:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I dollotry becomes less central than before.
• 1:19:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously that that was something like you kind of just see it fade in the old testament.
• 1:19:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like.
• 1:19:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's definitely a big thing early on.
• 1:19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my question would be, there was less care about it or there were less people doing it, which one bit of both?
• 1:20:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like they fell into a certain mold with their religion that just kind of started sticking more and more.
• 1:20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like how you can't change the Constitution anymore.
• 1:20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like it reaches a point and then it's just done and it just sticks.
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't add things to the Bible anymore either.
• 1:20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like religions and constitutions just reach a point.
• 1:20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: where the printing presses invented and you can't change either of them ever again.
• 1:20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, synagogues spread wildly during this time period.
• 1:20:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, all right.
• 1:20:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Greek language was still spreading.
• 1:20:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember I told you that it was still happening even more so that the gospel could travel.
• 1:20:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And spread, you know, got to talk about Jesus in some language, right?
• 1:20:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so coming, right.
• 1:20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He coming.
• 1:20:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He coming.
• 1:20:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, but they would at that time we're talking about I would have been the old testament like they had solidified it into some books at that point.
• 1:21:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: But that would have been.
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: So those would have been being spread through Greek, mostly at that point, right?
• 1:21:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the Septuagint that which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures became very influential.
• 1:21:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
• 1:21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was talking about
• 1:21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: the Greek language that describes spoke and read.
• 1:21:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they would have been spreading these stories.
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the written language for sure, but also the spoken language was still, I mean, that's why a lot of our science and math today is still rooted in Latin because Greek was based in Latin.
• 1:21:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know what I mean?
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just spoke all that shit back then.
• 1:21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, they were hot for Greeks.
• 1:22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Greece was it, by the way.
• 1:22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the Roman roads that came in, they were like, we build so good.
• 1:22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, I'm here at the Great was like in architect, he was like your quintessential Roman guy.
• 1:22:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like to build shit.
• 1:22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like them Romans.
• 1:22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They built shit.
• 1:22:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: They got they had Colosseum's and shit.
• 1:22:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: They And they mean.
• 1:22:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: They have the odds.
• 1:22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, the Greeks had the pantheons and the German Containment.
• 1:22:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you see Germans?
• 1:22:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Romans like they mean roads and buildings.
• 1:22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: with Germans.
• 1:22:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 1:22:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Why do you keep saying it?
• 1:22:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 1:22:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but every time I say German, just like anymore me and plug in the correct person.
• 1:22:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:22:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:22:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So roaming roads were like huge, okay?
• 1:22:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that helped spread the stories and the literature and what was happening.
• 1:23:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fucking roads.
• 1:23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fucking Roman roads.
• 1:23:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: The imperial infrastructure
• 1:23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: missionaries.
• 1:23:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's a thing that's going to happen.
• 1:23:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course the Messianic hope intensified.
• 1:23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 1:23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He comment.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the classic like fullness of time.
• 1:23:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we'll see when Paul later has some phrasing apparently.
• 1:23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says that history was being
• 1:23:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what your modern Christian today would say.
• 1:23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything was being prepared for Jesus.
• 1:23:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Got it.
• 1:23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: To come.
• 1:23:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey.
• 1:23:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Takes a while for a hundred years, apparently, to prep for a son to walk the earth or whatever.
• 1:23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is a magic man, Mama.
• 1:23:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: You would, I mean, he built the entire...
• 1:23:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a magic man.
• 1:23:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: Universe in seven days.
• 1:23:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it took four or a year to get a son down to us.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
• 1:24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, I'm going to end on the Jewish tradition as they remember this time period.
• 1:24:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right.
• 1:24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've covered the other two.
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the big one because this is like where we're at, right?
• 1:24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: These people, okay.
• 1:24:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is where it gets really interesting because Judaism does not narrate this time period as quote unquote waiting for the new testament obvious.
• 1:24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
• 1:24:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, like, what do you think happened during that 400 year period?
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like,
• 1:24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, the same thing that happened in the next 500 and 600 and 700 fucking history.
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: What?
• 1:24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Hanukkah is the big surviving popular memory, and that came from the Macadoodles.
• 1:24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's the most famous living Jewish remembrance of the Macabeyan era.
• 1:24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the rededication of the temple after Antiochus IV, you know, the OG villain.
• 1:24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: After he desecrated it.
• 1:24:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: when they re-dedicated it, that was where we got Honicah.
• 1:25:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're like, look, man, look, we understand that the macadudos happen.
• 1:25:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we are so glad for the macadudos happening in Honicah, but that doesn't go in our book.
• 1:25:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That can go in, like, adjacent.
• 1:25:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Old Testament adjacent.
• 1:25:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, to knock adjacent.
• 1:25:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Shoot a pagrapha.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Shoot a pagrapha.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's the other word.
• 1:25:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thank you.
• 1:25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they also look at this time period as victory over forced assimilation and persecution.
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the preservation of Jewish identity, which makes sense.
• 1:25:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Their whole thing is the focus on the military victory and the temple rededication.
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: of the Macadoodles and the hundred years thereafter.
• 1:25:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like everything else after that is just like, yeah, that's history happening, you know.
• 1:26:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know the way time goes on.
• 1:26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just a perfect example of how later Jewish memory reshapes earlier history because they're like, no, no, this was all about Hanukkah, this was all about like the famous oil lasting eight days that whole miracle that was awesome.
• 1:26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Remember that one?
• 1:26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're like, no, that was great.
• 1:26:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was so good.
• 1:26:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: What was that?
• 1:26:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: The oil was whatever.
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: There was something that came out.
• 1:26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was like the fucking oil lamp thing ran ran out.
• 1:26:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it was a fire, but then it was like goo and then we're like that had to been a oil or something.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was a fire or something.
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're turning I think we're turning.
• 1:26:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're talking about like two different stories.
• 1:26:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
• 1:26:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they were both like so miraculous magic.
• 1:26:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Prophecy ceased.
• 1:26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: is the way they look at it.
• 1:27:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, and God was done with us.
• 1:27:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: A major Jewish traditional idea is that after the last biblical prophets, which would be Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, the age of prophecy ended, or at least was greatly diminished.
• 1:27:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Age of prophecy.
• 1:27:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was the last episode.
• 1:27:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's it, that's all we get.
• 1:27:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all we get.
• 1:27:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: God, go, sound, God.
• 1:27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: God didn't vanish.
• 1:27:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
• 1:27:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very important you understand God didn't vanish.
• 1:27:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just means that direct prophetic revelation is no longer the norm.
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So God did vanish, but we're just gonna say he did it.
• 1:27:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 1:27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't interact with us.
• 1:27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's still there somewhere, floaty, right?
• 1:27:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:27:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: The authority shifts toward the Torah, the sages, interpretation, like that's where we get, you know, the people that are still writing about it.
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: To this day?
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it strikes me that.
• 1:27:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And communal practice.
• 1:27:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: At this point in time, written history was much more prevalent and much more solidified as part of
• 1:28:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: part of the love part of life, right?
• 1:28:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: So these fantastical things that were oral traditions in the past now could become written down in the moment.
• 1:28:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: So these prophecies would have had to end something that somebody witnessed and actually
• 1:28:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you know, it's almost like the cell phone has pictures of fucking miracles either because, you know, there aren't any right, you know, like the second you have a way to record.
• 1:28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, miracle somehow disappear.
• 1:28:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why that's why there's fewer reporting of UFOs.
• 1:28:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look, everybody got a fucking cell phone Google Earth got a fucking, you know, camera in the sky.
• 1:28:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, everybody got a blurry picture of a fucking right track or something.
• 1:28:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a tick attack or reflection.
• 1:28:49
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 1:28:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, love it.
• 1:28:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this idea actually lines up somewhat with the Christian silent years idea.
• 1:28:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Judaism does not interpret it as, and then therefore Jesus was, you know, the Christians are like 400 years and then this happened.
• 1:29:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're just like 400 years and then 500 years and like I already said, time marches forward.
• 1:29:15
  [UNKNOWN]: Right.
• 1:29:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just becomes this part of the story of how rabbinic modes of authority emerged during and after the second temple.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's just be what it be, you know?
• 1:29:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had more, but we're getting along here.
• 1:29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think we're good.
• 1:29:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll just stop there.
• 1:29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 1:29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sounds good.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was actually very, I liked a lot of that information.
• 1:29:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot there.
• 1:29:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's very, it makes it very relevant as to what we're going to be getting into a new testament.
• 1:29:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of puts what we're reading into place with where we're going.
• 1:29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And knowing that what we're going into isn't going to hit on this, but is impacted by it.
• 1:29:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:29:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think really helps me, like, get a feel for, okay, this is what we're walking into.
• 1:30:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, definitely.
• 1:30:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I got at least like five or six dad jokes in there, so I felt good about this one.
• 1:30:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, that's all you got for us today then.
• 1:30:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, no, it's not, but that's what I'm stopping.
• 1:30:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, all right, fair enough.
• 1:30:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
• 1:30:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's all we got for today then.
• 1:30:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
• 1:30:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we will see you next time.
• 1:30:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
• 1:30:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fuck will.
• 1:30:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye.
• 1:30:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye.