Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E254: The Truth About Islam — And Why I Had To Leave w/Ismail Youssef | Lila Rose Show

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E254: The Truth About Islam — And Why I Had To Leave w/Ismail Youssef | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  You were raised in Egypt. You're raised by a devout Muslim
• 0:02
  father. You know the Quran, You can read
• 0:04
  it in Arabic. Are you Muslim or are you
• 0:06
  westerner? Everyone exactly like me who
• 0:08
  lived in both had an identity crisis.
• 0:10
  How does the modern Muslim take that piece of history by
• 0:13
  Muhammad? That's a great question.
• 0:15
  I thought God was almost like a monster and I believed he was
• 0:18
  Allah and I believed in Islam. It just came to the conclusion
• 0:21
  that God is evil and I have to worship him.
• 0:22
  That I realized God was trying to reach me through that dream.
• 0:25
  It really was. And he answered me directly and
• 0:27
  I whispered to myself, Jesus, if you're real, tell me right now.
• 0:32
  And as soon as I said that. Is Islam truly a religion of
• 0:37
  peace? What did Muhammad actually
• 0:40
  teach, and what does it look like to live out his teachings
• 0:43
  in the West? And what was it like for a
• 0:45
  devout Muslim to go to a Christian Church for the first
• 0:47
  time? Welcome back to the Lila Roche
• 0:49
  show. Today I'm sitting down with
• 0:50
  Ishmael Yousef, who was raised as a Muslim in Egypt, but whose
• 0:55
  trips to Canada opened his eyes to a new reality.
• 0:57
  In this episode, we explore the history of Islam, we explore the
• 1:00
  differences between Islam and Christianity, and we explore the
• 1:03
  different expressions of Islamic faith.
• 1:05
  Also shares his perspective on the tension between Islamic and
• 1:09
  Western values and he shares his warning for the West.
• 1:12
  Thank you so much to everyone who has been subscribing to and
• 1:15
  listening to the show. The show continues to grow.
• 1:17
  Thanks to all of you. We just blew past 400,000 Subs
• 1:20
  on YouTube. We're rising in the ranks over
• 1:21
  on Podcast app. The quickest and easiest way
• 1:24
  that you can support this show is to hit the subscribe button
• 1:26
  and make sure that you never miss a future episode of the
• 1:29
  Lila Roe Show. Also, if you're over on podcast
• 1:31
  app, make sure that you leave us a review and five stars.
• 1:34
  This show is about wrestling with the most important issues
• 1:37
  of our day and addressing how can we grow as human beings to
• 1:40
  live out our full potential so that we can flourish and so that
• 1:43
  our society can flourish. Thank you so much for being part
• 1:46
  of the journey. Ishmael Youssef, welcome to the
• 1:48
  podcast. Thank you so much.
• 1:49
  So happy with this happened and you're here.
• 1:51
  Really. Thank you so much for coming in.
• 1:53
  Yeah, it's beautiful and it's feels more like a vacation then
• 1:57
  I'm not just like coming for a podcast.
• 1:59
  Y'all live in like beautiful place in North America.
• 2:01
  Yes, I think so too. That's what we tell people.
• 2:04
  Hey, do you wanna come to Southern California?
• 2:06
  That's like, I'm not gonna say no anymore.
• 2:08
  That's the trick, right? Northern California?
• 2:11
  I'm originally from Northern California and there are parts I
• 2:14
  think of Northern California that are even more beautiful.
• 2:17
  Was it a sunny though? That's the question.
• 2:19
  You know it it can be really sunny up there.
• 2:22
  OK. It can.
• 2:23
  Yeah. It depends on where.
• 2:24
  But if you go to like Marin Valley or Mill Valley and Marin
• 2:27
  area, it's really beautiful. Like north of San Francisco.
• 2:30
  OK, nice. So that's you need to go there
• 2:32
  next. Yeah.
• 2:33
  I don't know what podcasting. Whoever's up there, y'all can I?
• 2:35
  Was gonna say I don't know who that's doing up there.
• 2:37
  If if we were still, if I was still up there, we would be
• 2:39
  podcasting from the redwoods or something.
• 2:41
  That would be very. That'd be beautiful.
• 2:43
  Yeah. So you're from Nova Scotia, Yes.
• 2:46
  And how's Canada these days? I love Canada, honestly.
• 2:50
  It's gorgeous. It is a beautiful country and it
• 2:53
  is so big. So I was talking to people down
• 2:56
  here when I was visiting and they're like, yeah, So what are
• 2:58
  the big cities in Canada? It's like we basically have
• 3:01
  three big cities and then everything else just small towns
• 3:04
  and in trees. So it's like it's just like
• 3:05
  empty and all it. Is empty.
• 3:07
  That's all the time. And it's like, I think it's the
• 3:09
  same population as California, actually.
• 3:11
  All of Canada. All of Canada is around the same
• 3:13
  population as California. What's that, 60 or 70 million?
• 3:16
  No 40. 40 oh 40 million I should know that and then.
• 3:18
  California is like 39, so it's like 1.
• 3:21
  Million. But we have like, what's bigger
• 3:23
  than the whole United States? So that's what I'm talking
• 3:25
  about. Like it's like super empty.
• 3:27
  So when you drive from like Toronto to like Winnipeg, it
• 3:31
  takes like 30, 26 hours to drive.
• 3:33
  And there's nothing like if you, if you, your car stops like you
• 3:37
  better be praying to the Lord, because no one's coming to save
• 3:40
  you. Except a grizzly bear.
• 3:42
  Yeah, exactly. Or something.
• 3:44
  It's, it's all very cold too, right?
• 3:46
  I mean, that's, it doesn't get as warm as, you know, where
• 3:50
  we're, where we're at. I mean, I've been to Vancouver
• 3:52
  in the summer and it's nice. But you you also just have this
• 3:56
  very different climate too. Yeah, it's quite different, but
• 3:59
  it's actually interesting. So right now in Nova Scotia it's
• 4:01
  only like 5°C less than here, so it's not too bad, but it's more
• 4:06
  of the extremes. So like in the summer it'd be a
• 4:09
  very similar to here, but in the winter it's like the opposite.
• 4:12
  It goes complete a complete 180. So you'll be like in shorts and
• 4:16
  AT shirt in the summer, but then you have to wear like a parka
• 4:19
  outside in the winter, so. So when did you move to Canada?
• 4:22
  So actually I was born in Halifax.
• 4:23
  OK. So I was there since I was zero,
• 4:28
  and then from zero to five I lived there and then we went
• 4:31
  back to Egypt. And then how long were you in
• 4:33
  Egypt for? From 5 to 15 so.
• 4:36
  Tell me about how you were, what family you were born into when
• 4:39
  you were born in Canada and then why the move back to or why the
• 4:43
  move to Egypt? So it's funny, so my dad and his
• 4:46
  brother, they were in the Egyptian military and they were
• 4:50
  doing training with the Canadians, I believe.
• 4:53
  I think that's how the story goes.
• 4:54
  Watch it be completely wrong. But basically they were in
• 4:57
  Canada doing stuff in Nova Scotia.
• 4:59
  And my dad's brother, he fell in love with someone in Nova
• 5:02
  Scotia. And then my dad met my mom at
• 5:05
  that wedding. So it's actually funny the whole
• 5:08
  story. Yeah.
• 5:09
  Canadian girl and like small town Canadian girl, like doesn't
• 5:11
  know anything about the Middle East, nothing at all.
• 5:14
  And basically I think it was like 3 weeks or like 4 weeks in,
• 5:18
  they're like, we should get married.
• 5:20
  And they're like, yeah, how about on Friday?
• 5:21
  They're like, OK, so they went to the court, they got married
• 5:24
  and then, yeah, that's all that happened.
• 5:26
  But then Egypt had like, what's it called?
• 5:29
  Like a military draft thing. So he had to go back to Egypt
• 5:32
  for two years. So my mom, they just got married
• 5:34
  and then they had to go back to Egypt.
• 5:36
  And then my mom was in Nova Scotia and he was in Egypt doing
• 5:40
  military stuff and eventually came back.
• 5:42
  And yeah, so then years later, they had my brother and they had
• 5:46
  me, and they put us in a Muslim school there.
• 5:49
  There's one Muslim school there. So anyone who's anywhere near
• 5:52
  Nova Scotia knows exactly what I'm talking about.
• 5:55
  And it is not the best Muslim school in town, I'll say that.
• 5:59
  Basically they'll just teach you like the Quran exists, Allah's
• 6:02
  God go to bed. Like that's kind of like the
• 6:05
  level of Islam that you're taught.
• 6:07
  And my dad was just like, OK, I want my kids to actually know
• 6:12
  about Islam. So that's why when I was 5 and
• 6:14
  my brothers around like 7 or 8, we went to Egypt.
• 6:17
  Because of faith they wanted better, like strengthening of
• 6:20
  the Islamic faith. Yeah, So I was speaking Arabic
• 6:23
  as well as English, but we also, he wanted me not to lose Arabic
• 6:27
  because like the population of Arabic speakers there was so low
• 6:31
  and the Islamic teaching was so low there.
• 6:33
  Like the quality was just not good.
• 6:35
  So my dad was like, we have to go back to Egypt to teach my,
• 6:39
  his children about Islam and Arabic.
• 6:42
  And I actually went to an American school there and I had
• 6:45
  a tutor who would come and teach me like Quranic Arabic and about
• 6:49
  the religion and how to fast, how to pray.
• 6:51
  So that was from like the age of five to like 1415.
• 6:56
  That's how my life went. So your mom, when she met your
• 6:59
  dad at that wedding, this was a Muslim wedding.
• 7:01
  So she she was Muslim. No, it wasn't a Muslim wedding,
• 7:04
  it was just a regular like courthouse wedding.
• 7:07
  Where she met your dad, Yes, and so was she, but she was Muslim.
• 7:11
  No, she was Jeho's Witness. Wow.
• 7:13
  Yeah. And well, OK, I shouldn't say
• 7:15
  she's Jeho. Well, she grew up Jeho's witness
• 7:17
  and left when she was 14 and identified as like a quote UN
• 7:21
  quote Christian, but kind of not really.
• 7:23
  And then funny enough, she was 17 when she got married to my
• 7:28
  dad and my my dad was 27. But illegally you have to be 18
• 7:34
  to do without parent permission. So they actually forged my
• 7:37
  grandparents like signature for my mom to get married to my dad.
• 7:40
  Is that 'cause they didn't approve?
• 7:42
  Yeah, they were kind of racist, like, because my dad, he's from
• 7:45
  like the South of Egypt, so he's quite dark.
• 7:47
  And they're like, we're not gonna have this like in the
• 7:50
  family. But my dad, my mom was like, OK,
• 7:52
  screw you, mom. And then kind of just did it.
• 7:53
  Whoa. Yeah.
• 7:54
  So it wasn't his, it wasn't his religion, it was his ethnicity.
• 7:58
  The. Religion didn't help.
• 7:59
  I'm sure nothing like you're a Christian Nova Scotian girl.
• 8:03
  Yeah. And you're trying to, like,
• 8:05
  date, like marry a Muslim, like almost look an African man.
• 8:08
  Like, it's like it did not work at all.
• 8:10
  And so they had like, forged the signature and then they got
• 8:14
  married at the courthouse. And then, yeah, eventually they
• 8:17
  like, became friends my, my dad and like the parents, like the
• 8:22
  grandparents. I never met my mom's
• 8:23
  grandparents because they died at a young age.
• 8:25
  But apparently that after like a couple of years, they kind of
• 8:29
  severed, they kind of fixed it. So she was raised by her
• 8:32
  grandparents, your mother? No, no.
• 8:34
  So. This is your.
• 8:35
  Grandparents. So my mom was raised by her
• 8:38
  mother and like her father and they were Jehovah's Witness.
• 8:43
  So that was a big deal. So my grandmother's and my mom's
• 8:46
  mother, she was quite religious, so in US and that really rubbed
• 8:51
  off my mom in a wrong way. So it made her very like anxious
• 8:54
  against religion and very nervous about religion.
• 8:57
  So she left the JW religion around 14.
• 9:00
  And when she married my dad, my dad actually wasn't a very
• 9:04
  religious Muslim at the time. He was very culturally Muslim.
• 9:07
  And then when he got married at the court years later, my dad
• 9:11
  became super religious. And then when they had my
• 9:15
  brother in Egypt, it's actually better to have both spouses be
• 9:21
  the same religion because if you have a child and the father
• 9:25
  dies, the government can interfere and basically take all
• 9:28
  the inheritance away because you can't an Islam a Muslim fathers
• 9:33
  like inheritance cannot be inherited down to a Christian.
• 9:37
  So it's basically like my my mom basically became Muslim just in
• 9:41
  case my dad got sick and died. That was the only reason.
• 9:44
  So her belief in Islam is very like non existent.
• 9:49
  So she's a Muslim by name? And that and that conversion
• 9:52
  happened in in Egypt that conversion.
• 9:54
  So she registered because you have to register your religion
• 9:56
  in Egypt, right? Yes, correct.
• 9:58
  So she on your ID card, so yeah. So she registered as as Muslim.
• 10:01
  And also that makes it very awkward too, because once they
• 10:03
  had kids, which one is it going to be on the child's ID card?
• 10:08
  So usually you just take the mother, the father's religion.
• 10:11
  But it's odd because it's very frowned upon, especially back
• 10:15
  then, to have a Muslim and a Christian marry.
• 10:18
  So they were like, why are you married to a Christian?
• 10:20
  So it was just easier for her to become Muslim.
• 10:23
  So that's how that worked. So yeah.
• 10:25
  When your dad was becoming more passionate about practicing his
• 10:31
  Muslim faith, that happened later on after their marriage,
• 10:35
  once he had children, and he started to maybe think about how
• 10:38
  he was going to raise you, everything else.
• 10:40
  Do you know if that impacted their marriage?
• 10:42
  Oh, significantly, because my mom, she was like, we're not
• 10:46
  going to have religion in our household.
• 10:48
  She was traumatized by growing up JW and my dad changed like
• 10:52
  completely overnight. He actually like went into the
• 10:57
  fridge, took all the alcohol and pour it down the drain.
• 11:00
  He started praying four times a day in Arabic and my mom had no
• 11:04
  idea what's going on. My mom was so scared of religion
• 11:07
  that she thought that she tried to hold a Quran at the time and
• 11:11
  she started crying because she couldn't even understand like a
• 11:14
  holy book. She was so traumatized from
• 11:16
  religion. So that was a very hard time at
• 11:19
  her marriage. And I don't think my dad
• 11:22
  eventually calmed down with religion, but it never went back
• 11:25
  to normal. Like my dad told today is a
• 11:27
  devout Muslim, and he still goes like, he goes to like morning
• 11:30
  prayer every every single day. He goes to the mosque for
• 11:33
  morning prayer. And then he prays five times a
• 11:35
  day. He does Ramadan, even though
• 11:37
  he's like 70 years old now and he doesn't have to, he still
• 11:40
  does it. So like, he's quite devout.
• 11:42
  So that still has an impact on her marriage.
• 11:44
  But yeah. It sounds like it would it
• 11:46
  affected his practice. Did it affect though, the way he
• 11:49
  treated your mom or was it more I'm now this is a really
• 11:52
  important thing to me. It's going to change how I
• 11:54
  behave. It definitely impacted the way
• 11:57
  my mom was treated. I do believe that there was a
• 12:00
  time that my dad suggested he get a second wife.
• 12:06
  That didn't fly very well in the family because my mom being from
• 12:11
  like a Western society and was just like, yeah, that ain't that
• 12:15
  ain't happening. So that I think my dad probably
• 12:18
  could stop saying that just for the peace in the house.
• 12:21
  He was like, you know what, even if I wanted a second wife, is it
• 12:24
  worth it? Because my mom, her name's Lisa,
• 12:26
  she's not gonna, Lisa isn't gonna give me.
• 12:29
  She's Lisa's gonna kill me. So I'm like, yeah, So that
• 12:32
  definitely had a huge impact. And I think just the view of
• 12:36
  women as well changed overnight, too.
• 12:39
  So just the way he would interact with other women are
• 12:43
  allowing my mom to interact with other men to change
• 12:46
  significantly. Like, things got more suspicious
• 12:49
  over time. And that's not me saying my dad
• 12:51
  was a good or bad person. It's just like what happened,
• 12:54
  like, naturally. So yeah.
• 12:55
  What does that mean though he started interacting differently
• 12:58
  with women as now that he was more practicing his Muslim
• 13:01
  faith, he just. Wouldn't talk to women and he'd
• 13:02
  just be like, oh, it's like it's Haram.
• 13:05
  So it's like forbidden to be like to have like women
• 13:07
  friendships if a woman's just wearing like something a little
• 13:10
  bit too like revealing who just looked at her way and that type
• 13:14
  of way. So that's not even like really a
• 13:15
  bad thing. But he became more isolated, I
• 13:19
  felt and or interactions with different people, especially the
• 13:22
  opposite opposite sex. So yeah.
• 13:25
  This was though in Egypt at the time, right?
• 13:26
  Because this, but this transition happened right
• 13:28
  before. Well, actually it happened right
• 13:30
  before Egypt. The transition happened right
• 13:32
  before Egypt. OK, so you.
• 13:33
  Saw it happen in in. The transition happened before I
• 13:37
  was born, so I always knew my dad as a devout Muslim, but my
• 13:41
  mom didn't. The transition, I believe,
• 13:44
  occurred when my brother was born and like a year after he
• 13:48
  was born. So.
• 13:49
  And I believe that because my dad had a kid now that also had
• 13:53
  an impact on his religious beliefs.
• 13:55
  Like, he was like, OK, I have to get my act together.
• 13:57
  I have to figure out, like, what do I believe?
• 13:59
  And then he chose, like, fundamental Islam.
• 14:03
  So yeah. Can you have two wives in
• 14:04
  Canada? Not legally, no.
• 14:07
  But some people still do it, and you're.
• 14:09
  You know, there are roommates who are paying rent and they
• 14:13
  just, you know, there's around town a lot.
• 14:15
  So yeah, like, that happens here.
• 14:18
  Everywhere there's find a way to do it.
• 14:20
  They're just roommates. What was life like in Egypt when
• 14:24
  you moved there? You were five years old.
• 14:26
  Yes. So I would go to school in Egypt
• 14:29
  and every summer I'd go back to Canada because, and technically
• 14:32
  I was an Egyptian citizen. So every summer it's like a 910
• 14:36
  months thing, then you have to go back.
• 14:38
  So it actually worked very well. So I was like almost like
• 14:40
  boarding school but with your parents.
• 14:42
  That was really weird. So I'd go to school there.
• 14:44
  I went to American school there and then I went to back to Nova
• 14:47
  Scotia every summer. And the contrast really was
• 14:51
  significant because I would live in one world for two or three
• 14:55
  months of the year, and the other months of the year I'd be
• 14:57
  in another world completely. And it felt like I was quite
• 15:02
  divided between worlds. My mom was from one world, my
• 15:05
  dad was from another world, and they couldn't really coexist
• 15:08
  with each other. My brother decided to go down
• 15:13
  the Muslim route. And I tried the Muslim route as
• 15:16
  a kid, and I couldn't find peace in it.
• 15:19
  I really couldn't figure out why I couldn't find peace for a long
• 15:24
  time until I met Christ. And we can get to that part, but
• 15:28
  it was hard because I like the culture, I like the language, I
• 15:32
  like the food, but I despise the way the judge mental, the lack
• 15:38
  of freedom and the lack of expression.
• 15:41
  And just like for a good example of this was in 2015 when the
• 15:47
  United States basically allowed gay marriage to be legalized
• 15:51
  nationwide. And it was a huge debate in my
• 15:53
  school about that. Your school in Egypt?
• 15:57
  Yeah, So it was an American school, so all the teachers were
• 15:59
  from the US in that school, and all the kids were from different
• 16:02
  areas. But the vast majority of them
• 16:04
  are Egyptian and Muslim. And the school was actually made
• 16:08
  for them to leave Egypt and go to like a better world.
• 16:11
  Like to go to like, it was actually based off the state of
• 16:13
  Virginia, which is kind of funny.
• 16:15
  So whenever they were being taught in Virginia, like, like
• 16:17
  some Muslim kids in Egypt were being taught, it was like really
• 16:20
  weird. And so.
• 16:22
  Yeah, so we were talking about this as a debate in school, and
• 16:27
  it really bothered me. Like, rather you agree or
• 16:29
  disagree with homosexuality. It wasn't that they disagreed
• 16:33
  with it. It was what they wanted to be
• 16:35
  done. And my own friends would say,
• 16:38
  like, yeah, like, if my brother was gay, I'd kill him myself.
• 16:41
  And I'm like, what? Like, you'd kill your own
• 16:43
  brother if he was a homosexual. And they're like, yeah, you
• 16:45
  wouldn't kill your own brother as homosexual.
• 16:47
  Like, they would talk about it like, it was like a normal
• 16:49
  thing, like, you know, And it's like in the most secular school
• 16:52
  in Egypt. So I couldn't even imagine
• 16:54
  what's going on in the public schools in Egypt.
• 16:56
  And it was just like, I have a one conversation in history
• 17:01
  class, the teacher, he was from Portland, OR, and he was talking
• 17:05
  about the gay community in Portland.
• 17:08
  And this one kid was like the gay community.
• 17:12
  And they're like, yeah, like, just like a gay community, you
• 17:14
  know, people who are homosexual to kind of interact together.
• 17:17
  And he's like, how do you guys allowed her to be a gay
• 17:20
  community? Wouldn't like the government go
• 17:21
  in and killed him? And I'm like me because I've,
• 17:25
  I've lived in the West and all the kids who are living in the
• 17:27
  West and in Egypt looked at him like, no, they wouldn't just go
• 17:31
  in and kill them. Like they have the right to be
• 17:33
  gay even if you don't like it. And it would.
• 17:36
  It just baffled me. So that was like one side and
• 17:39
  the other side, every time I go back to Canada, it was like, I
• 17:42
  don't know, people could be gay. They could be straight, they
• 17:44
  could be Muslim, Christian, Jew, they could do whatever they
• 17:47
  want. You know what I mean?
• 17:47
  And I kind of really appreciated that because I was able to ask
• 17:51
  questions about Islam and not feel like I'm going to about to
• 17:56
  like be killed by someone or being beat up.
• 17:59
  So it was very freeing. And it to the extent that there
• 18:03
  was one kid who was from Florida and it's he was there because
• 18:07
  his parents were teachers in the school.
• 18:09
  And he started asking questions about why, why Muslims believe
• 18:13
  Muhammad's a prophet and just him asking those questions.
• 18:16
  The students were saying, you know, you shouldn't ask those
• 18:18
  questions are like, we will beat you up.
• 18:21
  Just so you just heads up, like saying it was like a nonchalant
• 18:24
  thing, like, you know, like, yeah, you should stop asking
• 18:26
  that because if you do ask that, we will have to beat you up.
• 18:29
  So that was how it was viewed there.
• 18:33
  And again, that's like the most secular school in Egypt.
• 18:36
  And so that contrast was so strong.
• 18:38
  And in the contrast wasn't just in school.
• 18:40
  It was in my own family. So my dad would be like, I want
• 18:44
  to teach my kids about Islam. I want them to learn about
• 18:47
  Islam. And he even brought a religious,
• 18:50
  a teacher over wants to teach us about Islam, But then he started
• 18:53
  bashing, bashing people who are Jewish.
• 18:55
  He was like, you know, like the only thing that's worse than an
• 18:59
  atheist is a Jew. And I'm like, and my mom
• 19:01
  overheard that, like, because at that point she was starting
• 19:03
  learning enough Arabic to understand what's going on.
• 19:05
  My mom went to my dad and, and she's like, you got to this guy
• 19:09
  has to leave the house. Like, I'm not letting my kids
• 19:11
  like be taught this. And then the teacher was
• 19:14
  confused as to why my mom didn't hate Jews.
• 19:19
  Like that's how much anti-Semitism is widespread in
• 19:22
  that part of the world. Everyone hates Jews.
• 19:24
  Like I would even say like some Arab Christians hate Jews.
• 19:28
  It was just a Muslim thing. Like it was just because Islam
• 19:31
  kind of like leaves it's mark on the Christian communities as
• 19:34
  theirs do because it's the majority.
• 19:36
  So even in like Coptic or Assyrian churches that
• 19:40
  anti-Semitism also kind of spreads a little bit.
• 19:43
  So in a general sense, because of Islam's anti-Semitism, it
• 19:48
  also leaves a mark on other communities in the Middle East
• 19:51
  to make them anti-Semitic. So in a general sense, everyone
• 19:54
  was anti-Semitic. That was a normal thing until I
• 19:57
  met Jewish people in Canada. And I was like, oh, you're just
• 20:01
  a normal person. So you're just, you're just, you
• 20:04
  just wear a yarmulke and like, and then my dad wears his thing
• 20:07
  when he's at the mosque. OK.
• 20:08
  Like that was like, it was like a culture shock like every,
• 20:12
  every every six months. I was like, OK, I'm either free
• 20:15
  or I'm not free like. So it was very interesting.
• 20:18
  I have so many questions even just about that.
• 20:19
  I mean, first of all, just about your mom because she sounds like
• 20:23
  was resisting. Yeah, I'm not we're not getting
• 20:25
  another wife. We're not going to hate Jews
• 20:27
  here. Like she was resisting the the
• 20:29
  cultural really domination that exists in Egypt around a
• 20:33
  certain, you know, kind of Islam.
• 20:35
  And I'm going to get into your opinions on like different
• 20:38
  branches of Islam or different expressions of Islam.
• 20:41
  I know you have a lot of thoughts on that, but for your
• 20:43
  mother's experience, if you can speak to it, what you know of
• 20:46
  it, for her to, to be resisting and even trying to call shots a
• 20:50
  little with your dad, like I'm not going to do another wife or,
• 20:52
  you know, I don't want this guy in my house.
• 20:54
  What was, as you perceived it, what was their dynamic?
• 20:57
  Because my understanding is in in very, you know, devout Muslim
• 21:01
  marriages where there's a very strongly zealous Muslim husband,
• 21:06
  you know, his way is the highway.
• 21:08
  So for her to sort of speak up like that, you know, it sounds
• 21:11
  like she had, she had a sense of confidence that she could speak
• 21:14
  up. I'm a one take craft from
• 21:16
  anyone. She just wouldn't do it.
• 21:18
  Like doesn't matter. But she she didn't fear your
• 21:21
  dad, it sounds like. No, my mom doesn't fear anyone.
• 21:23
  Like never. She doesn't even fear.
• 21:26
  My mom is the type of person and.
• 21:28
  Did she wear a hijab in Egypt? Yeah, over a dead body.
• 21:32
  Really. She.
• 21:33
  Never wear a hijab. She even said that if you put
• 21:35
  that rag on my head, I'd kill you.
• 21:36
  That's what she said. Like she would not let it
• 21:39
  happen. I love my mom.
• 21:40
  She's a fierce woman. Like she would not let that
• 21:42
  happen. Did she get in trouble for that?
• 21:44
  She wouldn't let herself get in trouble for that.
• 21:47
  Like, I don't think my wife's watching this right now live.
• 21:49
  She knows. It was like the mother-in-law.
• 21:52
  You know the mother. And mother, she would not let
• 21:54
  that happen. Like she, she's a very strong
• 21:56
  woman. Well, and there's enough freedom
• 21:58
  in Egypt where you're not going to be like penalized for not
• 22:01
  wearing the hijab. It's not like Iran.
• 22:03
  No, they're not like Iran. So like in 2013, we had the
• 22:06
  Muslim Brotherhood for a little bit.
• 22:08
  So it was kind of scary for a second.
• 22:10
  But even the Egyptians all, they're religious.
• 22:13
  They're not that religious. They're like, yeah, we didn't
• 22:15
  really want that. So they they had a coup and then
• 22:17
  the government came in. They're like, not gonna.
• 22:19
  Do hijabs around here every day, all day.
• 22:22
  Yeah, like, you can choose to have the hijab, but I don't want
• 22:24
  you to tell me to wear a hijab, You know what I mean?
• 22:25
  And it was like, yeah, maybe homosexuals should be killed,
• 22:28
  but I don't want to kill them. So that's how it was.
• 22:30
  Like, it was viewed like they can do it in Afghanistan, not
• 22:32
  here. So yeah.
• 22:34
  But we we approve of it in Afghanistan.
• 22:36
  We were not going to disprove of it.
• 22:37
  We're. Not going to disapprove.
• 22:39
  Yeah, yeah. So they wouldn't, they wouldn't
• 22:41
  just come out saying be approved, but they'd be like,
• 22:44
  can you really trust what's going on in Afghanistan?
• 22:46
  Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't killing
• 22:47
  homosexuals. And it sounds like the school
• 22:50
  that you were going to in Egypt was maybe the most secular
• 22:54
  Muslim school in Egypt. It's run by Americans or.
• 22:57
  It was a secular school. It wasn't even a Muslim school,
• 22:59
  but that that was like as secular as you can get in Egypt.
• 23:04
  But didn't your How did that work with your dad?
• 23:06
  Because he went to Egypt, He wanted you to be Muslim and know
• 23:09
  Islam and. My mom would not let me go to a
• 23:11
  Muslim school, so they had to compromise.
• 23:13
  So I was like, you can take them to Egypt, but you ain't take
• 23:15
  them to a Muslim school, so you can take them to Egypt being a
• 23:18
  secular school. So even then there was a
• 23:21
  compromise. So this is the world I'm living
• 23:23
  in. There's always a contrast in
• 23:25
  everything. It's either like I'm always
• 23:28
  living in freedom of the West or oppression of religion.
• 23:32
  That's what it always was. So like, I even remember when I
• 23:36
  was like 13, I was so confused because I thought God was almost
• 23:41
  like a monster because everything I thought about God
• 23:45
  was oppression because the way it would impact my mom or me or
• 23:50
  anyone around me was just like, it was like a blanket of
• 23:53
  darkness over the country. That's who God was.
• 23:56
  He was a tyrant and I, I believed he existed even as a 13
• 24:02
  year old and I believed he was Allah and I believed in Islam.
• 24:06
  And I just came to the conclusion that God was good and
• 24:09
  bad. He's evil.
• 24:10
  God is evil and I have to worship him.
• 24:13
  That's it. And I don't think Islam
• 24:15
  disagrees with that because in Christianity we believe God is
• 24:18
  all good and all holy, and Islam believes that God's all good,
• 24:23
  but they also believe God's all bad.
• 24:25
  So God can keep his promises, but he can also break his
• 24:27
  promises. And so Muslims actually make fun
• 24:29
  of Christians because they think our God's kind of weak because
• 24:33
  he's only good. And meanwhile, like, well, our
• 24:35
  God's good and bad, he can do everything.
• 24:37
  So like, what type of God is it that he does good stuff?
• 24:40
  So that's kind of like my view of God as a Muslim was, of
• 24:45
  course there's evil in the world.
• 24:46
  God ordained it, and he wants us to feel evil.
• 24:49
  He does what he wants. So yeah.
• 24:52
  Isn't isn't one of the common, you know, calls to Islamic God
• 24:57
  Allah, Merciful Allah like the word mercy is used?
• 25:00
  Yeah, Rahman Rahim, he's the most merciful, most
• 25:03
  compassionate. Yeah, but he's also Haider
• 25:05
  Makarin. He's the most deceiving and the
• 25:07
  most cunning. So like, he's both.
• 25:11
  He's all, he's everything. He's he's not just one thing.
• 25:14
  So he'll be merciful to who he chooses, and he'll be deceiving
• 25:18
  to who he chooses. And how do you know if he chose
• 25:21
  you? You'll find out.
• 25:24
  And how do you find out? You die and you meet him and a
• 25:29
  Muslim. A Muslim can be the best Muslim
• 25:31
  in his entire life. He can fast every single fast,
• 25:35
  pray everything, go to Mecca, do the whole 9 yards.
• 25:39
  But if God ordained him for hell, he ordained for hell.
• 25:43
  And a Christian can be the best, the worst Christian in the world
• 25:46
  hate Islam curse about Muhammad. But if God ordained him for
• 25:50
  heaven, he's ordained for heaven.
• 25:52
  That's how Islam sees it. It's his choice.
• 25:54
  It's not our choice. So there's nothing you can
• 25:56
  really do in this life to really favor God except dying a martyr.
• 26:02
  I think there's some verses about that.
• 26:04
  And martyrdom is different in Islam that isn't Christianity.
• 26:07
  So if you die a martyr, like fighting for Allah, you go to
• 26:11
  heaven. Allah does favor people who are
• 26:14
  sick. So if you have an illness, he
• 26:17
  favors that to you over other people.
• 26:19
  So there's a higher chance you're going to heaven.
• 26:21
  So things like that. But if you're just like a
• 26:24
  regular Joe, you're pretty much ordained from the moment you are
• 26:27
  conceived. And there's a good hadith about
• 26:29
  that actually. And hadith just means the saying
• 26:31
  of Muhammad, where Muhammad was actually he was walking around
• 26:35
  and it was a little girl passed away and they're burying her.
• 26:41
  And one of his companions is like, oh, she's going to be in
• 26:43
  heaven. And Muhammad was like, don't say
• 26:45
  that. We don't know that because God
• 26:47
  might have ordained this little girl for hell before she was
• 26:50
  even born. So the the concept of like
• 26:54
  predestination is actually one of the six main like articles of
• 26:58
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  predestination, and the belief in judgment day.
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  So they believed that God sent down prophets to every tribe and
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  So the Scripture is the Bible, the Torah.
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  There's also a book of Moses, not Moses, Abraham, sorry, and
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  that that's been lost. The Quran obviously Angel is
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  like Michael Gabriel, all those people and then the prophets and
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  Judgement day and in predestination.
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  How are Muslims meant to weigh the different holy books?
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  Because you have the Quran and you have parts of the Bible
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  which contradict the Quran and there's different prescriptions
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  for how to live. So the Muslims are like the
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  majority of Muslims believe that the holy books in the past have
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  the past religions to be corrupted.
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  So Torah got corrupt. So God sent down the gospels for
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  Jesus and the day got corrupted. So then God sent out the Quran
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  Judgement day. So there are, there are aspects
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  However, because they are corrupted, the Quran summarizes
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  everything that's in those books.
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  And therefore you should only use the Quran and you can only
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  use the Gospels in the Torah if it agrees with the Quran.
• 31:00
  So anything that disagrees with the Quran, you have to like
• 31:04
  disregard it because that's a part that's been corrupted.
• 31:07
  That's how it's viewed. When you were learning all of
• 31:10
  this, so a lot of this, it sounds like you learned between
• 31:13
  that ages of 5 to 15 while you were in Egypt.
• 31:15
  That's when you really had your the the the real imprint of
• 31:19
  Islamic theology, if we can call it that or philosophy or
• 31:22
  whatever, whatever we want to call it.
• 31:24
  Did you what time frame is this? What years are what year are we
• 31:27
  at? This is I was.
• 31:29
  Born in 2000. So 2005 to 2015.
• 31:32
  So when you heard about like jihadis as an example, you know,
• 31:38
  or terrorist acts, first of all, was there a conversation about
• 31:42
  that? Like for example, 9/11 had
• 31:43
  happened the year before or the year after you were born?
• 31:47
  What's the Muslim framework when you're in Egypt, you're at AI
• 31:50
  guess a more secular, but still, you know, you're in Islamic
• 31:53
  culture. What's the framework for viewing
• 31:55
  terrorism extreme, you know, Islamic extremism, ISIS, things
• 31:59
  like that in an Egyptian culture?
• 32:03
  It depends on the person. It's more like, yeah, it was
• 32:08
  bad, but what did you expect was going to happen?
• 32:10
  Like you guys were supporting Israel and Israel was killing
• 32:13
  Palestinians. So what do you think was going
• 32:15
  to happen? Of course we're going to bomb
• 32:16
  you. I thought that sounds like what
• 32:18
  most Americans say now. Yeah.
• 32:20
  Like, it's not most, but many Americans are like, yeah, what?
• 32:22
  What do you think? I mean, we say that about, you
• 32:24
  know, Charlie Kirk, who was assassinated.
• 32:26
  A bunch of leftists are saying, what do you think is going to
• 32:28
  happen? He was giving hate speech.
• 32:29
  Yeah. So that's kind of similar view,
• 32:31
  basically the same with like ISIS.
• 32:34
  When ISIS came around, it's like, well, you guys like like
• 32:38
  conquered Iraq and like killed 1,000,000 people and now you're
• 32:42
  surprised that ISIS is bombing France and the US and the UK.
• 32:46
  It's like, well, obviously like they, they're fighting back.
• 32:49
  That's how they viewed it. And it was almost like they
• 32:54
  didn't, how do I say this? On the outside they wouldn't say
• 32:58
  they agree with it. But on the inside, in Muslim
• 33:00
  circles, it would be like, yeah, maybe they're taking a little
• 33:04
  bit too far, but it is what it is and they're doing more good
• 33:09
  than harm. ISIS is doing more good than
• 33:11
  harm. Well, yeah, because they're
• 33:12
  fighting back against infidels like you guys put on yourselves.
• 33:17
  You guys wouldn't have been bombed if you didn't bomb us
• 33:19
  first. Like that's how it works in
• 33:22
  every war. So that's how they view.
• 33:24
  I'm not, I'm saying this, I'm not saying ISIS is good.
• 33:27
  I'm saying they're saying ISIS is justified because of what
• 33:33
  countries like the US did in Iraq and Syria.
• 33:36
  It's very chillingly like American liberalism today.
• 33:41
  I mean, I remember being in college, this was 2010 years
• 33:44
  after 911. But even then, you know,
• 33:48
  American College professors at UCLA, at my school were talking
• 33:51
  about how terrorism needs to be understood in the framework of
• 33:55
  how they've been oppressed. You know, poverty has been,
• 33:58
  they've been subjected to poverty by Western forces.
• 34:02
  You know, basically it's America's fault.
• 34:04
  You know, it's sort of like you wore the dress, so that's why
• 34:06
  you got raped. It's that same mentality.
• 34:09
  And so, you know, we are responsible in the end for the
• 34:13
  extremism or the terrorism or whatever it is in some way.
• 34:16
  Not like 100% but. Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 34:20
  And it's it reminds me and it goes back to the like the
• 34:24
  psychology of the religion. So in Christianity there's a
• 34:27
  psychology of forgiveness. So if someone slaps you on one
• 34:30
  Sheikh, you present them. The other cheek doesn't exist in
• 34:32
  Islam. It's an eye for an eye and tooth
• 34:34
  for tooth. So that still is the aspect of
• 34:37
  Islam. So they see it as justified and
• 34:40
  they see it as like, well, yeah, like what do you expect is going
• 34:43
  to happen? Even if it is horrific, it's
• 34:45
  like, well, you guys are horrific first.
• 34:48
  When you were kind of thinking like, well, God, I guess I'm
• 34:52
  Muslim, but God is pretty rough. Like, you know, like you said,
• 34:56
  he's good and evil and you know, I don't know, did did you ever
• 34:59
  think when you were younger, I don't want to practice Islam?
• 35:02
  I mean, was that even an option in your mind that was on the
• 35:06
  table? No, I, if anything, the older I
• 35:08
  got, the more radical I got. Like I remember when the Charlie
• 35:12
  Abdul attacks when that was in 2014, I think, where they drew
• 35:17
  pictures of the prophet and in ISIS kind of like they, they
• 35:22
  sent people to France and they, they killed the artists.
• 35:25
  This kind of spooked me a little bit because I remember seeing
• 35:28
  that and I was like, well, what did you expect?
• 35:33
  Like my first thought was like, don't draw the profit and you
• 35:36
  won't die. And I remember thinking that.
• 35:38
  And I was like, that's not a good thought, Ishmael.
• 35:41
  Like, you should know better than to be like, hey, we should
• 35:44
  kill people for drawing a picture.
• 35:47
  And that was one of the really first, like, moments in my life
• 35:49
  where I was like, this, there's something wrong here.
• 35:53
  Why was I so upset that someone in a country I've never been to,
• 35:57
  who doesn't impact me at all drew a picture of a guy from
• 36:02
  1400 years ago? Like, I try to think about
• 36:05
  irrationally, and I couldn't answer it.
• 36:09
  I couldn't answer it. But the only answer I could get
• 36:12
  was because my religion tells me to be upset about it.
• 36:16
  And that was one of the first things that really was like a
• 36:19
  red flag. And I was around when I was like
• 36:21
  14, and I still got more and more radicalized.
• 36:25
  And after that, it was the 21 Coptic martyrs that ISIS
• 36:31
  beheaded. And when that happened?
• 36:34
  That was that was in Egypt, right?
• 36:35
  Yeah, that was in Egypt or on the border with Egypt and Libya.
• 36:38
  And I remember watching that. I watched the whole thing as a
• 36:41
  15 year old and. You watched the beheadings.
• 36:43
  Yeah, I watched the all day ISIS videos.
• 36:46
  Was that a typical thing for a Muslim?
• 36:49
  I think it's a typical thing for a high schooler in general.
• 36:51
  Yeah, I guess so. In the in the US too, They're
• 36:53
  probably watching us. Yeah, they're what else are you
• 36:55
  doing in recess? So that's kind of what you do
• 36:57
  these days, which is terrific. You used to play Pokémon, but
• 37:00
  now we do that. You watch videos of terrorism
• 37:02
  and acts of violence. Yeah.
• 37:04
  And it's just like, I, I watched that and the thing that bothered
• 37:09
  me the most was like, OK, we are making each of the Muslim
• 37:13
  country. Why did we have to behead these
• 37:16
  people? How does this help the economy?
• 37:18
  How does this help the infrastructure?
• 37:20
  How does this help the politics? If we killed all 20 million
• 37:23
  Coptics in Egypt, would this really help us economically?
• 37:28
  Probably not. That was my thought process.
• 37:31
  So I was like, even from an Islamic perspective, this is
• 37:35
  just not good. And the thing that bothered me
• 37:37
  too was that they were quoting Quran versus and Hadith while
• 37:41
  killing them. And when they quoted it, I
• 37:44
  looked it up and everything they quoted was true.
• 37:48
  Every single thing they quoted about killing the infidels and
• 37:52
  the Christians that are worth the creatures and all that stuff
• 37:54
  was true. And it will hurt me because I
• 37:59
  loved the Christians. I had Christian neighbors, I had
• 38:02
  Christians in my classroom and I was good friends with them.
• 38:06
  And I've met Christians in Canada.
• 38:09
  And this is when the conflict started getting harder and
• 38:11
  harder inside me because I was contradicting myself.
• 38:18
  Like these people deserve to live, but my religious tell me
• 38:21
  not that they shouldn't live. And it was almost like my mind
• 38:26
  was in two. There were two things happening
• 38:28
  at once and I could already see that I had to pick one
• 38:31
  eventually. And I felt like, and maybe it
• 38:34
  was more subconscious, it wasn't like a conscious feeling.
• 38:37
  But not looking back on it, I could tell that eventually I had
• 38:40
  to side with one or the other. And I'm very happy I side with
• 38:45
  the other one. Not, not the Muslim one, but a
• 38:48
  lot of people side with the the ISIS 1.
• 38:51
  And I think that's why a lot of people from North America and
• 38:53
  Europe who are second or third generation went and joined ISIS
• 38:57
  in 2015 because Islam in the Western society are not
• 39:01
  compatible. And everyone exactly like me who
• 39:05
  lived in both and where was a descendant of an immigrant who
• 39:08
  went to like Canada, US or the UK had had an identity crisis.
• 39:14
  Are you Muslim or are you a Westerner?
• 39:17
  And you cannot be both. It's impossible.
• 39:20
  It's impossible to be a Muslim American or a Muslim Canadian or
• 39:24
  a Muslim European. I know that sounds harsh, but
• 39:27
  but Islam is not just a religion, it is a nationality,
• 39:30
  it's a political party, it is a movement, it is everything.
• 39:34
  So that's why it's impossible. You can be a Jewish American, a
• 39:37
  Christian American, atheist American.
• 39:39
  You cannot be a Muslim American. You can't be a good Muslim
• 39:42
  American. You can be a very bad Muslim
• 39:44
  American. I mean, like you just don't
• 39:45
  practice it, but you cannot be a religious Muslim and an
• 39:48
  American. It's impossible.
• 39:50
  Why? What is it?
• 39:52
  What are like, you said the ISIS terrorists who are beheading the
• 39:56
  Coptic Christians on the shore in Egypt, and they filmed it and
• 40:01
  the whole world was able to watch it.
• 40:03
  And you said they were quoting Hadiths.
• 40:06
  They were quoting Muhammad. And you were like, looking it
• 40:09
  up. And you're like, oh, he actually
• 40:10
  did say this about how we should treat Christians.
• 40:14
  What is it about Islam that, if you're really honest about what
• 40:17
  it teaches, it is incompatible with the West?
• 40:21
  Everything from the smallest thing to the biggest thing is
• 40:23
  the opposite. Just think about it when you
• 40:26
  think of an American Independence Day, think of a
• 40:29
  barbecue and a beer. Two things you can't have with a
• 40:31
  Muslim. I mean, dead serious.
• 40:33
  That's how a Muslim mind sees it.
• 40:35
  Everything that they have is against our religion.
• 40:38
  BBQ, beer, bikinis, everything we can't have.
• 40:43
  We have the burqa, we can't have the beer.
• 40:46
  I can't eat the pork. Right from the very smallest
• 40:49
  thing. It's a contradiction to the very
• 40:51
  largest thing, freedom of speech.
• 40:53
  I can't say everything I want to say about Muhammad, our Islam or
• 40:57
  my family. You can contradiction.
• 41:00
  Everything about Islam is the opposite of Western values.
• 41:04
  Everything Women's rights. Women get to be able to vote,
• 41:08
  not in Islam. Women have the ability to move
• 41:11
  around the country by themselves, not in Islam.
• 41:15
  They do now because the Western world has been like pushing it
• 41:18
  on the Muslim world. But until like the 1960's, the
• 41:23
  Muslim world had slavery. They had sex slavery.
• 41:25
  That was a thing. Until the 1960s, yes.
• 41:27
  Where in the Muslim world was Saudi?
• 41:29
  Arabia, they were selling. They were selling slaves by the
• 41:31
  Kaaba. There's videos of it.
• 41:33
  You can look up videos of slaves being sold by the Kaaba.
• 41:38
  The holiest site. And so you just have a sex slave
• 41:41
  in your house like it was a normal thing in Saudi Arabia.
• 41:43
  And yeah, of course. It's ordained in Islam.
• 41:46
  You can have it. It's not considered adultery.
• 41:49
  Where in the Quran does it say you can have a sex slave?
• 41:52
  There's a few chapters it's. I'm not saying it that doesn't
• 41:56
  say that, but just for folks listening.
• 41:58
  Well in Nala as well, so in Arabic you're allowed to have
• 42:03
  your wife and your right hand possessions which is an Arabic
• 42:06
  phrase meaning you're sex slaves.
• 42:08
  That's the what you can have for permission to have intercourse
• 42:12
  with. So if it's not your sex slave,
• 42:14
  it's someone else's. You can't have like intercourse
• 42:17
  with them. So there's a division of
• 42:19
  property there. And of course it's only for men.
• 42:21
  So like that's not even like mentioned for women at all.
• 42:24
  So this is a thing that's ingrained in the Quran and a
• 42:28
  multitude of chapters. It actually started because
• 42:33
  Muhammad circled his town once and they killed all the the
• 42:37
  combatants in the town. And the Muslims actually were
• 42:41
  like, what do we do with the women now that all the men were
• 42:43
  were dead and they were married. And Muhammad said, well, you can
• 42:46
  just take them as sex slaves and then use them.
• 42:49
  And then that's kind of like you're, you're good now.
• 42:52
  And they actually didn't want to, which is the interesting
• 42:55
  part. A lot of the Muslim men in the
• 42:57
  army were like, we actually don't want to have relations
• 43:00
  with them because they felt kind of odd about it because their
• 43:03
  men, like the husbands were just alive like two hours ago.
• 43:07
  And I killed them. And now you want me to have
• 43:10
  relations with the woman of the man just killed?
• 43:13
  And they're like, this kind of feels wrong.
• 43:15
  And the prophet was like, no, you have permission to do this.
• 43:19
  And so that's that's how that started.
• 43:21
  I believe it was Benochoriza, which is the tribe that was
• 43:25
  genocided by the Prophet. So.
• 43:27
  Yeah. How?
• 43:28
  How does it work with there's so much jokes for her, but with the
• 43:32
  Quran, I mean, I know Muhammad said an Angel came to him and
• 43:34
  dictated the Quran to him. But then you look at the like
• 43:38
  early the life and the behavior of Muhammad and the subjugation
• 43:42
  of peoples, you know, convert by the sword.
• 43:45
  You know, this harem. He literally had all these
• 43:47
  women, very young girls that were effectively a sex slave,
• 43:51
  but you know, his wives all of this, right?
• 43:54
  And do you, I mean, what's your theory on it?
• 43:57
  Do you think he invent it was a demonic presence that came this
• 44:01
  Angel that was actually something otherworldly that
• 44:04
  came. Did he invent it based on what
• 44:06
  he wanted to do to be a sort of a powerful warlord?
• 44:09
  How do you think that worked where he was developing a an
• 44:12
  ideology ultimately, but then he said he was receiving it
• 44:14
  supernaturally? So when Muhammad encountered
• 44:17
  whatever he encountered in in The Cave, he didn't say it was
• 44:22
  an Angel. It was actually interesting.
• 44:24
  So he went to his wife. His first wife said that he was
• 44:28
  scared of his mind and his first wife took him to an Aryan monk
• 44:32
  who told him that he was a prophet and that it was Gabriel
• 44:36
  that met him. So he didn't even say it was
• 44:38
  Gabriel. Not once in the in the first few
• 44:40
  years of Muhammad's ministry did this being say it was Gabriel.
• 44:45
  It was only afterwards I started saying it was Gabriel.
• 44:48
  So Muhammad didn't know what he encountered.
• 44:52
  It was told to him by that Aryan monk.
• 44:55
  And eventually it's actually interesting.
• 44:58
  After the Aryan monk, his name is Wadaka.
• 45:00
  After Wadaka died the revelation just magically stopped and we
• 45:05
  don't know what happened for two years and the quality of the
• 45:09
  revelation. Actually it wasn't pretty bad
• 45:11
  after the two years. So there's a theory by ex
• 45:15
  Muslims that it was watercol that was writing the revelation
• 45:19
  for Muhammad. And like hiding it in The Cave.
• 45:21
  Yeah, I don't know, like, like maybe the whole cave thing was a
• 45:24
  story. They were like, oh, maybe we're
• 45:26
  going to make this up. So that's one theory.
• 45:28
  I actually don't think that's what happened.
• 45:30
  That's one theory that it was watercolor behind it the whole
• 45:33
  time. I actually just think he met the
• 45:36
  devil. Honestly, I'm just going to say
• 45:38
  straight up, I think it's. A Muhammad met the devil.
• 45:40
  Yep, he met the devil, and the devil knows what can confuse
• 45:44
  people. You know what the truth is, and
• 45:47
  all you need is just a little bit of lies in the truth.
• 45:49
  Yeah, We believe in Jesus, no crucifixion.
• 45:52
  We believe in Jesus, no resurrection.
• 45:55
  We believe in Jesus, no divinity.
• 45:57
  So everything that we need to believe about Jesus is gone and
• 46:02
  everything we don't really need to believe about Jesus, like,
• 46:04
  oh, he healed the sick, he walked on water.
• 46:07
  Those are cool things. But if you don't believe he's
• 46:09
  God, it doesn't really matter, right?
• 46:11
  And for. So when Muslims say that we
• 46:13
  believe in Jesus and yeah, they believe him as a historical
• 46:17
  figure. They believe the miracles with
• 46:18
  the virgin birth, but they don't believe the main thing.
• 46:22
  It's like saying I believe the Quran exists and I believe that
• 46:25
  it's written in Arabic and I believe it's in a book.
• 46:28
  But if I don't say, if I say I believe the Quran, that I don't
• 46:31
  believe it's from God and you don't really believe the Quran,
• 46:33
  it's the same thing. But so, yeah.
• 46:36
  So I generally think that it was a demonic force that he met.
• 46:40
  I think afterwards in life, it gets really sketchy that he
• 46:42
  eventually just kind of made it up on the way because there's
• 46:46
  like some verses where people are visiting Muhammad in his
• 46:51
  house and he says that the Angel is telling him that he is too
• 46:56
  shy to say it, but he wants them to leave.
• 46:59
  So the angel's telling the people to leave.
• 47:02
  So then everyone leaves. So stuff like that.
• 47:03
  Kind of kind of like, OK, now you're just kind of making it
• 47:05
  up, but. Did that like happen in real
• 47:07
  time though? He's like the Angel just showed
• 47:08
  up, guys. He wants you to.
• 47:09
  Yeah, literally like the Angel. So he was like real time that.
• 47:11
  Wasn't like, imagine we're like, we're just relaxing right now.
• 47:14
  I'm at your house and. Ishmael the God told me the
• 47:16
  interview's over. Gabriel's in the room and he's
• 47:18
  like, you have to. Leave.
• 47:20
  Wow. Yeah.
• 47:21
  So things like that. How many year over how much
• 47:24
  period of time was the Quran written?
• 47:25
  23 years. So he did it for 23 years.
• 47:28
  And how many of those years was that monk of alive for?
• 47:31
  Like. 2 is just the beginning, yeah.
• 47:33
  Was the Is the quality of the Quranic literature better
• 47:37
  towards the beginning than the end?
• 47:39
  Significantly better, like significantly better.
• 47:43
  Like in the like at the end of the at the of the Quran, it gets
• 47:47
  like really bad. Yeah.
• 47:49
  It's like girl who wrote this. Wow.
• 47:52
  I guess like this goes downhill. Like at the beginning of it,
• 47:54
  it's like it rhymes and it's poetic.
• 47:56
  At the end of it, it's like, don't eat pork.
• 47:59
  We're gonna the policy is suck. And I'm like, what?
• 48:02
  Like it's just like it doesn't even rhyme or anything.
• 48:04
  Yeah, so it does. It doesn't really, Like you can
• 48:07
  tell right away the last chapter of the Quran actually that was
• 48:11
  revealed and the Quran's not in order.
• 48:13
  So the last chapter of the Quran is Chapter 9.
• 48:15
  So people, it's kind of, it's a whole, that's a whole thing.
• 48:19
  I don't know why they did that, but the Quran's not in
• 48:21
  chronological order. But Chapter 9 is like the most
• 48:24
  violent one. And it's just basically a rant
• 48:26
  about how you should go out and kill all the infidels and how,
• 48:31
  like, Islam's your only religion left.
• 48:34
  And it was like, revealed, It was revealed to Muhammad right
• 48:37
  before he died. So it's almost like they knew he
• 48:39
  was about to die. And I'm like, what we're going
• 48:40
  to do? And they're like, oh, just go
• 48:42
  out and expand now. And then he died.
• 48:44
  So yeah, it's interesting. The Quran's like, literature was
• 48:47
  really good in the beginning. I'll give you props.
• 48:50
  It was great literature. And then it just goes downhill
• 48:52
  significantly. Give me the sketch of what
• 48:55
  Muhammad was doing in those 23 years when the Quran was being
• 48:58
  written. So the first few years he would
• 49:00
  just say things like there's one God, don't worship idols.
• 49:04
  All Christians, Jews and Muslims, we all worship the same
• 49:07
  God, do good things, feed the orphans very good things, like
• 49:10
  nothing bad. So it would be very maybe
• 49:13
  winsome to a Christian. Yeah, like Christians like yeah,
• 49:15
  I'm. Done bore with this.
• 49:17
  Yeah, but no one converted. I think after like how many
• 49:21
  years It was the first half of it.
• 49:24
  It was just like he had like 200 followers.
• 49:27
  So he's like spreading this writing and he's speaking the
• 49:29
  writing to the his town. Or was he travelling a lot?
• 49:33
  Of and Mecca his like his town and then he's just like talking
• 49:36
  to people and he gets like 2300 followers and eventually he gets
• 49:40
  kicked out of this town because in that in Mecca, it's a
• 49:44
  polytheistic town. And if people keep becoming
• 49:47
  monotheistic, they would lose income because people would come
• 49:51
  for pilgrimage and give money to the town every time they go
• 49:54
  there to worship their gods, right.
• 49:56
  But if everyone becomes monotheistic, no one's going to
• 49:58
  start worshiping their gods. So they basically told him, OK,
• 50:01
  you have to leave. So he actually he sends all of
• 50:04
  his followers. He doesn't go, but he sends like
• 50:06
  half his followers for safety to Ethiopia, to an Oriental
• 50:10
  Orthodox king and the the Orthodox king, basically because
• 50:14
  it was such a peace of religion at the time.
• 50:16
  He was like, they believe in one God.
• 50:19
  They believe, they believe in Jesus.
• 50:20
  And they said feed the orphans. OK, yeah, I'll keep them.
• 50:24
  Like it was like, why not? Like I'll protect them.
• 50:26
  So they stayed there for a few years.
• 50:28
  And it's actually interesting. There is a tale that some of the
• 50:31
  Muslims there became Christians under Oriental like Orthodoxy.
• 50:36
  And then after when that started happening, the Muslims moved
• 50:39
  back to Saudi Arabia because they're like, hey, we're losing
• 50:42
  our numbers because Muhammad's not here.
• 50:44
  He can't preach to us anymore. So they moved back there and
• 50:47
  they tell him like, oh, the Christian king was good.
• 50:49
  So he actually has good relations, relationships with
• 50:51
  the Christian king. And this is when it starts
• 50:55
  getting really interesting. They kick him out again out of
• 50:59
  Mecca and he goes to a town called Yathrib, which is now
• 51:03
  called Medina. And Medina actually means the
• 51:05
  city of the Prophet. So you rename Yathrib to the
• 51:09
  city of the Prophet because of what happens.
• 51:11
  So he goes from Mecca to Yathrib and he figures out that Islam is
• 51:17
  actually kind of powerful because in Arabian times back
• 51:21
  then, what you could do is everyone was like connected to
• 51:24
  the tribe, right? And all the tribes were fighting
• 51:26
  each other. And he realized if I can make
• 51:29
  this religion basically take away all tribal like division,
• 51:34
  then I I can become like a commander and the ruler.
• 51:38
  And that's what he did. And because he was from Mecca
• 51:41
  and at the same time, when he got to Yathrib, they were having
• 51:43
  like, almost like an argument in the town between the Jews and
• 51:46
  the polytheists. And they're like, oh, you're a
• 51:48
  foreigner and you have this rule where there is this movement.
• 51:51
  It seems pretty cool. He wants you to be the judge of
• 51:54
  this like dispute we're having and he judges it and everyone
• 51:58
  likes the judgement. So what they do is they crown
• 52:00
  him as like the king or like the ruler of Yathrib.
• 52:04
  What was his judgement? I don't remember what the
• 52:06
  argument was. I was to try to.
• 52:08
  Like make peace between the Jews and the polytheists.
• 52:10
  Yeah, we're living there. Yeah.
• 52:11
  And he figures it out. He's like, OK, the Jews can live
• 52:13
  here, and the polytheists live here, and everyone can respect
• 52:15
  every other's feast day, something like that.
• 52:17
  And then they're like, oh, OK, so he makes the constitution.
• 52:20
  It's called the Constitution of Medina because after that
• 52:23
  happened, they renamed it after him.
• 52:25
  And it's one of the actually the first constitutions in Arabia.
• 52:28
  And it's basically says the Jews there had the rights to stay and
• 52:31
  the policies had the right to stay and the Muslims have the
• 52:34
  right to stay. So now he's not just a religious
• 52:36
  leader, he's now a political leader.
• 52:39
  And now he's joining an army. And he's making an army because
• 52:43
  he he's like, OK, he's still from Mecca.
• 52:47
  He's still a Mecca. He's not a Medinan, right?
• 52:49
  And he wants to go back to Mecca.
• 52:51
  And he wants to make that shrine where all the polytheistic gods
• 52:54
  are for Allah, for the one God. So he dreams of coming back into
• 52:58
  Mecca and taking over that shrine.
• 53:02
  So he builds up an army and Mecca and Medina fight each
• 53:06
  other. I don't know how many battles.
• 53:08
  I think it's more than 80 battles in his life they fight.
• 53:11
  He is fighting those. Yeah, he's the commander.
• 53:13
  So now he's not just a religious leader, he's a political leader,
• 53:16
  a religious leader and a commander at war.
• 53:18
  Because he couldn't persuade the Meccans, the polytheistic
• 53:22
  Meccans. So he needed to go and conquer
• 53:24
  them Exactly. And he could now, because enough
• 53:26
  people had come under his authority in Medina.
• 53:28
  And now everyone's like, his religion must be true.
• 53:31
  He just saved Medina from a civil war.
• 53:34
  He's the commander, political leader, and he's getting
• 53:37
  revelation, patience from God. So we're going to follow him
• 53:40
  into war. And say what you want about the
• 53:43
  Muslims, they were good at fighting.
• 53:45
  They won almost every single war because I think it's because of
• 53:49
  the incentive. They were like, if you win,
• 53:53
  whether you live or die, if you live, you have to fight again
• 53:56
  and take the war booty. And if you die, you get to go to
• 53:58
  heaven. And heaven wasn't really a
• 54:00
  concrete belief in Arabia at the time.
• 54:03
  So they were like, oh, there's this place called heaven I can
• 54:04
  go to if I die in in battle. So that's the difference between
• 54:08
  Christian martyrdom and Islamic martyrdom and Islamic martyrdom.
• 54:11
  You go to heaven if you die in battle and Christian martyrdom,
• 54:14
  you go to heaven if you die because of your faith.
• 54:16
  So someone kills you for your faith.
• 54:17
  That's a little bit different. So they were like literally they
• 54:23
  won everything. There's a guy named Khad Ibn
• 54:25
  Walid and he was like so good that the when the maybe this is
• 54:31
  made-up, but in the Hadees I said when the policies would
• 54:34
  hear his name, they would shiver and go into their houses because
• 54:37
  they would come in and slaughter all of them like a day and night
• 54:40
  like so it was like a bloodbath whenever he was around.
• 54:44
  And eventually they encircle Mecca and Mecca gives up and he
• 54:50
  goes in. He takes every single idol down
• 54:54
  except 2 Mary and Jesus. He leaves the statue of marrying
• 54:59
  Jesus up. I know not statue an icon of
• 55:01
  marrying Jesus. So he said that these are like
• 55:05
  the prophets of God. And even though idolatry is like
• 55:08
  banned and like icons are banned, he respected it enough
• 55:11
  not to touch them. And he actually says these are
• 55:15
  the only two sinless people to ever live.
• 55:17
  And then he basically conquers Mecca and the Meccaans are like,
• 55:21
  oh shoot, we're going to die today.
• 55:22
  Like you're going to gather us up but we're going to be
• 55:24
  beheaded. But he doesn't.
• 55:26
  He actually says that there's no more violence.
• 55:29
  Mecca is now a zone of no, no one can be killed.
• 55:33
  And even today, if you're like break, if you do like the if you
• 55:37
  murder someone in Saudi Arabia and you're in Mecca, they have
• 55:39
  to fly outside of Mecca to do the death penalty because you're
• 55:42
  not allowed to die there. It's all like the Vatican, like
• 55:45
  you cannot have like something so gruesome happen on that holy
• 55:49
  ground, right? So eventually they win.
• 55:52
  The Muslims take over all of Arabia.
• 55:55
  Within 23 years, he goes from 200 followers to the commander
• 56:00
  in chief of a country bigger than Great Britain.
• 56:05
  And then when he died, it keeps expanding, goes from Arabia to
• 56:11
  the Levant to North Africa to Spain.
• 56:14
  And within like 150 years it's from Spain to China.
• 56:18
  It is one of the biggest, fastest like growing empires
• 56:22
  that ever exist. And why do you think it was so
• 56:25
  at this stage is so effective? I think it was because every
• 56:29
  time they expanded, they give you 3 options.
• 56:32
  They said you can convert and join us, you can pay a heavy tax
• 56:37
  or you can die. Those are the three options that
• 56:40
  you gave. So most people, they, if they're
• 56:44
  rich enough, so the Coptics in Egypt, if they're rich enough to
• 56:46
  pay a tax. The Christians.
• 56:48
  Yeah, if they were poor, they had to convert.
• 56:50
  So. So Egypt was like 100% Christian
• 56:53
  before the Muslims came, and now it's only like 10% because only
• 56:58
  the rich could pay the tax. And the tax wasn't just like
• 57:00
  10%, it was like half of your income.
• 57:03
  And do you think to the cultural Christian at the time, so the
• 57:06
  Christian who was sort of semi Christian or the polytheistic
• 57:10
  Pagan who was sort of, you know, used to bumping up into
• 57:14
  Christianity a little bit, or at least it was some sort of
• 57:16
  familiarity of it. Islam seem to have enough little
• 57:21
  pieces like you could be sort of a Islam by name convert because
• 57:26
  it or die and and not have your life dramatically change.
• 57:31
  Do you think that was part of it too?
• 57:33
  Yeah, exactly. If anything, your life is a lot
• 57:34
  better because if you if you convert to Islam to give you
• 57:36
  incentives, now they're like, OK, now you can join the army
• 57:39
  and now you can like give your own house and like we'll do all
• 57:42
  these things. So I was like, if you came
• 57:44
  Muslim ones that you get to heaven, you become Muslim now
• 57:47
  we'll defend you no matter what. So if someone tries to kill you
• 57:51
  and the court of law, a testimony of a Muslim is
• 57:53
  overpowered by a Christian or a Jew or whoever.
• 57:56
  So if you have a conflict now with your Christian neighbor,
• 57:59
  convert to Islam, you'll win the court.
• 58:01
  So that's all you have to do. So everyone was like, of course,
• 58:04
  we'll convert to Islam. Like I don't want to pay the
• 58:06
  tax, I don't want to like lose in the court of law and I don't
• 58:09
  want to be killed. So I'll let us become Muslim.
• 58:12
  So that's why I expanded so quickly.
• 58:15
  What about the teaching on women?
• 58:17
  You mentioned it earlier but you know Muhammad ended up getting
• 58:21
  was it 21 wives? I don't know where he live and
• 58:23
  he finished off. At 1919, close enough.
• 58:26
  In that range and at the time in Christianity, you're only
• 58:30
  supposed to have one life, polytheistic paganism.
• 58:34
  I I think it was probably, I don't know what it.
• 58:36
  Was similar to Islam. You could do whatever.
• 58:38
  So how did that would you say, play into the expansion of
• 58:42
  Islam? Is this strange to say that
• 58:45
  Islam was kind of feminist? Feminist for the time, really.
• 58:49
  Yeah. So OK, I'll tell you why I said
• 58:53
  that. And then there's parts of it
• 58:54
  that aren't so. Before Muhammad started
• 58:56
  preaching, there is a tradition that if you had a boy you would
• 59:01
  raise it, and if you had a girl, baby girl, you'd bury it to
• 59:04
  death because it was useless basically.
• 59:07
  This was not an Islam you're saying, but in this.
• 59:09
  Is right before Islam existed, so in but.
• 59:12
  Not the Christian part of the Arab world.
• 59:14
  This would be the. No, like so the Christians
• 59:16
  probably didn't do that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it
• 59:18
  didn't rub off. It was a cultural thing in
• 59:20
  Arabia. So when Muhammad heard about
• 59:23
  this and he started preaching his religion, he forbade it.
• 59:26
  He said no, you can't do that. You can't kill a baby, a baby
• 59:30
  girl. So they basically fought against
• 59:34
  that. And they also said that women do
• 59:38
  have the right to be witnesses in the court of law to of a if a
• 59:41
  man has one witness or equals one person, a woman is half of a
• 59:46
  man. So there'll be two witnesses.
• 59:49
  And this isn't a society where they just wouldn't count as
• 59:52
  anything at all. That's why I'm saying like it
• 59:53
  was almost feminist for the movement in in Arabia until it
• 59:58
  got to like the the Roman Empire and they had Christianity.
• 1:00:03
  And that's where it wasn't feminists anymore.
• 1:00:04
  And you're like, OK, this is actually anti women, right?
• 1:00:07
  And then that's when it was actually kind of an issue.
• 1:00:10
  And basically, but I think that the threat of death in taxes
• 1:00:14
  still overweighted and women, even though they had more rights
• 1:00:19
  in Christian Byzantium, they, they, they still didn't have the
• 1:00:23
  same rights we had today. So yeah.
• 1:00:26
  And when you were talking about the this polytheistic religion
• 1:00:29
  that Muhammad was born into, and but there was also like some
• 1:00:33
  Coptic Christianity happening around it, what kind of real?
• 1:00:36
  So people, I mean that the timeline's so interesting
• 1:00:38
  because like, Western civilization is sort of emerging
• 1:00:42
  and this is what year? This is 400 years after 600
• 1:00:47
  years after Christ, and so Christianity has already begun
• 1:00:50
  to spread. But when does when does
• 1:00:51
  Constantine happen? That was a few 100.
• 1:00:53
  Years. That was 300. 8 That was 3300
• 1:00:56
  years prior. So there's an explosion of
• 1:00:58
  Christianity, but then there's still a lot of this polytheistic
• 1:01:03
  religion. Is that just kind of paganism
• 1:01:05
  generally? How is that different than like
• 1:01:07
  the Romans paganism? Or does it look look the same?
• 1:01:10
  So every tribe in Arabia had their own God and Mecca had all
• 1:01:15
  the gods from all the tribes there so that you can worship
• 1:01:18
  all them at the same time. That's why they pay people or
• 1:01:21
  people would pay to go there. It was similar to Roman
• 1:01:25
  paganism, but the own Arab version of them.
• 1:01:27
  So like they might have like Jupiter, but it was an Arabic
• 1:01:32
  name or something like that, our different gods completely.
• 1:01:35
  And we know that they were like there were three goddesses in in
• 1:01:38
  Mecca, for example, and they were like crane goddesses
• 1:01:41
  already, the goddesses of the sky.
• 1:01:42
  So we know that these existed and that it was just like
• 1:01:45
  basically like folk religion almost that existed.
• 1:01:48
  And Arabia, no one cared about Arabia at all.
• 1:01:51
  So they had the Zoroastrians in Persia who were fighting with
• 1:01:57
  the Christian Byzantines. And that was the main thing that
• 1:02:00
  was happening in the middle was Arabia.
• 1:02:03
  And everyone's like, who's going to go down to Arabia and check
• 1:02:05
  it out? Like there's nothing there.
• 1:02:07
  She's just Sandy. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:02:08
  It's just sandy small towns and like, that's pretty much it.
• 1:02:12
  So they were. They didn't know about oil yet.
• 1:02:14
  Yeah, that was not, that was not a thing.
• 1:02:17
  So they're, they're like, we're not worried about anything
• 1:02:19
  coming out of Arabia. And then Muhammad came around,
• 1:02:22
  Islam came and then took over both Byzantium and Persia.
• 1:02:27
  So it was like I said, Islam spread very well.
• 1:02:31
  What part of in the Quranic, in the in, in the writing of the
• 1:02:36
  Quran and then also the life of Muhammad?
• 1:02:38
  At what point did he start to really clash and try to and
• 1:02:40
  ultimately be violent against Christians and Jews for that
• 1:02:44
  matter? It was less about overcome, you
• 1:02:46
  know, defeating the polytheists. And it became, no, we're going
• 1:02:49
  to, we're going to kill Christians and Jews.
• 1:02:51
  So a big one was when they started not believing that he
• 1:02:55
  was a prophet. So a lot of it is a lot of
• 1:02:58
  slander to the Jews because Arabia had a lot of Jews at a
• 1:03:01
  time because they were kicked out of the Byzantine Empire by
• 1:03:04
  Christians. So they'd be living in with the
• 1:03:06
  polytheists in Arabia. And he basically tried to
• 1:03:10
  convince them that he was like a new Moses and like he believed
• 1:03:13
  in the Old Testament. There's even a hadith that said
• 1:03:16
  that like there were two Jewish people arguing and he took the
• 1:03:19
  Torah and he said whatever this book says in this, do you have
• 1:03:24
  to follow it for your argument? And he actually quotes the
• 1:03:27
  Torah. And so Judaism was very big in
• 1:03:30
  Arabia at the time. The issue was he's kept saying
• 1:03:34
  that he was prophesized in the Torah and but because Muhammad
• 1:03:39
  couldn't read or write Hebrew, he couldn't clarify his term.
• 1:03:45
  Maybe he's just making it up. So the Jews were like where?
• 1:03:48
  And he's like, oh, you know, like the second book, the third
• 1:03:50
  book, they check it out and he's not there, but they wouldn't
• 1:03:53
  believe him. There is also a story about
• 1:03:55
  these Jews who actually go and ask some questions.
• 1:03:58
  And one of the questions is the is Aluna Kala Ruwa.
• 1:04:02
  If they ask you about the Spirit and they're talking about the
• 1:04:05
  Holy Spirit, actually because the Holy Spirit's mentioned in
• 1:04:07
  the Old Testament and Muhammad doesn't know what they're
• 1:04:11
  talking about, he has no idea what his Holy Spirit.
• 1:04:13
  Is because God is only one. There's no spirit of God.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah, well, there is a spirit of God in the Quran, but he doesn't
• 1:04:18
  know what they mean exactly by Holy Spirit.
• 1:04:21
  And he goes and he prays and he comes back and he says, God told
• 1:04:27
  me that the spirit of people is only know by God and no one else
• 1:04:31
  can know him. So that's how the Jews knew he
• 1:04:33
  was a false prophet because he didn't know what the Holy Spirit
• 1:04:36
  was. And there are a few other
• 1:04:38
  questions in that, that they realized that he wasn't a
• 1:04:42
  prophet of God and the Christians did the same thing.
• 1:04:45
  So the Christians asked him about tell us the story about
• 1:04:49
  the sleepers of The Cave. And the sleepers of The Cave is
• 1:04:51
  a story about these Christians in Ephesus who lived under their
• 1:04:57
  persecution of Rome. And they eventually went to a
• 1:05:01
  cave and they slept in a cave and they woke up like hundreds
• 1:05:05
  of years later to being under the Byzantine Empire.
• 1:05:08
  And it was a miracle. And they basically were saved
• 1:05:11
  because they were fleeing persecution at 1st And the Lord
• 1:05:14
  resurrected them in The Cave. And they eventually came out and
• 1:05:17
  they were saved. And Muhammad didn't know the
• 1:05:20
  story at all about the they're Orthodox Saints told today in
• 1:05:24
  the in the Orthodox Church. And Muhammad had no idea about
• 1:05:26
  the story, but he went and he asked some Christian monks.
• 1:05:30
  He might have asked what, I'm not sure about the time
• 1:05:32
  timeline, but they gave, they didn't know the story very well.
• 1:05:36
  And they kind of they, they twisted a little bit.
• 1:05:39
  So you got the number of people wrong in The Cave.
• 1:05:41
  You got the time period wrong. And he said they were Muslims,
• 1:05:45
  not Christians who were in The Cave.
• 1:05:47
  So the Christians knew he was a false prophet.
• 1:05:49
  He has to know about our Saints, right?
• 1:05:51
  So when he started finding out that they were asking questions
• 1:05:55
  that were too over his pay grade basically, and he was like, oh
• 1:05:59
  shoot, these people don't believe me, That's when the
• 1:06:01
  violence started coming out. So it's when people stopped
• 1:06:04
  believing him. And that's when he would just
• 1:06:06
  start. He would just order or command
• 1:06:09
  for violent invasion and basically the death penalty
• 1:06:12
  unless you convert. Yeah, are the taxes.
• 1:06:15
  He was very much into money. So he was like, you can just
• 1:06:18
  pay, give me half your money and then I won't kill you.
• 1:06:21
  There's a lot of and I know we've got to get to your story
• 1:06:25
  of conversion, which is incredible, but there's a lot of
• 1:06:28
  Muslims today who are in the West who are, you know, I mean,
• 1:06:33
  there's mom Domi who's running for, you know, mayor of New York
• 1:06:36
  City, right, as an example, and he is Muslim, but did.
• 1:06:40
  He win yet? I don't think he's.
• 1:06:42
  No, I don't think so. OK, please.
• 1:06:44
  Anyways. But people are saying he's going
• 1:06:46
  to win. And you know, he, he comes
• 1:06:49
  across as I'm, I'm a devout Muslim, but then I'm very
• 1:06:53
  ultimately, he's very liberal, progressive, you know, so
• 1:06:56
  somehow he's like in support of abortion, LGBTQ, all of this
• 1:06:59
  stuff. And then at the same time, he's
• 1:07:02
  a devout Muslim. And there's a lot of this in the
• 1:07:06
  US right now, especially and, and in parts of Europe, then you
• 1:07:09
  have, you know, parts of Europe where you literally like in in
• 1:07:12
  the UK as an example, or, or France, there's parts that are
• 1:07:16
  become very Islamic and it's fundamentalist Islamic or like
• 1:07:19
  really trying to practice what the Quran teaches.
• 1:07:23
  And they're living alongside Western.
• 1:07:27
  You could say even hedonism, you know, an opposite lifestyle is
• 1:07:31
  how at least they would maybe look at it.
• 1:07:34
  What do you make of that, these different expressions of Islam
• 1:07:39
  that are so prominent? They're not different
• 1:07:41
  expressions. It's the same thing.
• 1:07:43
  It's actually the formula of Islam.
• 1:07:45
  It's like I'm, I'm smiling not because I'm like, oh, this is
• 1:07:49
  amazing, but it's like coming from Islam.
• 1:07:51
  This is like if I was still a Muslim, this is the best news I
• 1:07:54
  could have ever heard in my entire life.
• 1:07:56
  Because think about what I just said.
• 1:07:58
  At the beginning of Muhammad's like ministry, he was peaceful.
• 1:08:02
  Then it grew and grew and grew and it got violent.
• 1:08:05
  And that's what they use as a formula, that that is the
• 1:08:11
  formula. If you're under 20 or 15% of the
• 1:08:14
  population, you can't be violent.
• 1:08:16
  It's impossible. You're in the minority.
• 1:08:18
  But what you can do once you get big enough as you can become,
• 1:08:21
  there's two types of jihad. There's jihad, a set of enough's
• 1:08:26
  where you can like, which means like the holy word of oneself
• 1:08:29
  and jihad is hotter, like outside, right.
• 1:08:31
  And that's, that literally means like jihad of war, the struggle
• 1:08:34
  of war. And basically in the outside
• 1:08:38
  fight, you can do it in two different ways.
• 1:08:40
  You can physically do it, but you can't do that if you're in a
• 1:08:43
  minority. But you can do is do it through
• 1:08:46
  politics, through different aspects of schooling, different
• 1:08:51
  aspect in the hospitals, anything.
• 1:08:53
  You can use anything in order to expand the Muslim empire to the
• 1:08:58
  extent that there is a teaching called takaya, and takaya
• 1:09:02
  literally means to deceive. So what you do is you actually
• 1:09:06
  deceive people. So when you as a Christian asked
• 1:09:10
  me if I was still Muslim, do you believe in Jesus?
• 1:09:13
  I know exactly what you're asking me.
• 1:09:14
  You're asking, do I believe Jesus is the son of God?
• 1:09:18
  The answer is no, but I as. A Muslim, the answer would be
• 1:09:22
  no. No, yeah.
• 1:09:23
  But I know that if I say that the conversation's over and
• 1:09:28
  you're not going to become Muslim, what I'm going to say
• 1:09:30
  is, of course, I believe in Jesus and he's the Son of God in
• 1:09:34
  a way, like we're all children of God.
• 1:09:36
  That's what the Bible means. And I'll twist the Bible in
• 1:09:39
  order to make you a Muslim, right.
• 1:09:42
  Even though in the Quran it literally says no one is the son
• 1:09:45
  of God, not even metaphorically. But I'm able to lie about that
• 1:09:49
  in order to make you a Muslim. That is.
• 1:09:51
  That is the goal. So lying is not always a sin in
• 1:09:54
  Islam. There are a few exceptions.
• 1:09:57
  Lying to make people Muslims is 1.
• 1:10:00
  Lying to your wife about having another wife or adultery is 1.
• 1:10:04
  You're allowed to do that kind of lying.
• 1:10:05
  Oh yeah, because it's going to, well, if I committed adultery
• 1:10:08
  and my wife finds out, it's going to break up the family.
• 1:10:11
  So that's going to hurt the children.
• 1:10:13
  So it's better to lie about it. You guys can do whatever you
• 1:10:18
  want with that one and lying with having another wife.
• 1:10:21
  So like, I don't need permission to tell my wife to have I want
• 1:10:25
  another wife and I can lie about it so I can have an entirely
• 1:10:28
  different family across town with a second wife.
• 1:10:32
  And because it would impact my first family and my first wife
• 1:10:35
  so much, it would break it up. It is actually a sin to tell my
• 1:10:39
  first wife that I have a second wife because it would hurt the
• 1:10:43
  children and the wife so much. So it's better to lie to them
• 1:10:46
  than to tell them the truth. The lion's not always a sin in
• 1:10:49
  Islam. Being deceptive is good.
• 1:10:52
  And again, Allah is higher makary and he is the great
• 1:10:54
  deceiver. So you're allowed to be
• 1:10:56
  deceptive. God is not just good, he's also
• 1:10:58
  bad. So and I asked what I believe is
• 1:11:01
  happening in New York. Really.
• 1:11:03
  You think Mom Donnie? You think Mom Donnie is
• 1:11:05
  practicing to Kia A? 1000 percent, 1000% it's.
• 1:11:09
  He's presenting and. Muslims are laughing at you guys
• 1:11:12
  like this is the funniest thing like dude give it 50 more years.
• 1:11:16
  Entire New York can be Muslim and then before you know, it's
• 1:11:18
  gonna be Sharia courts and then like y'all are, it's like, if
• 1:11:24
  it's like shooting yourself in the foot, like I, I, I can't
• 1:11:27
  even believe. And like you see Europe, you
• 1:11:29
  look at Europe, it's happening right now and then you're like,
• 1:11:31
  oh, let's just do it here in New York.
• 1:11:33
  Like it's like, no, like you have to stop.
• 1:11:35
  Like obviously Takea is working and they're doing an amazing job
• 1:11:39
  at it and they're fooling everyone, like, and all the
• 1:11:42
  Muslims are like so happy that's happening.
• 1:11:45
  I guess this is the best thing that could happen in Islam.
• 1:11:48
  And he's going to win because we're too stupid.
• 1:11:51
  It's like no matter how many times ex Muslims will say
• 1:11:54
  takayya is a real thing, they are lying to you.
• 1:11:57
  They will take over within 100 years.
• 1:11:59
  No one's going to listen because we just assume that our God is
• 1:12:02
  the same as their God. We just assume that their God
• 1:12:05
  will tell him not to lie, but their God tells him to lie.
• 1:12:08
  That's the. Difference, but are you sick?
• 1:12:10
  Could it be that someone like a Momdami, he's Muslim, he's a
• 1:12:13
  practicing Muslim, self professed, you know, he avowed.
• 1:12:16
  That's what he is. But maybe at the back of a mind,
• 1:12:19
  it's like I'll be practicing Muslim and I'll tolerate other
• 1:12:22
  people. But the more he leads, the more
• 1:12:24
  for him to practice. He has to dominate.
• 1:12:26
  But that I mean, I'm just saying, could it be in the back
• 1:12:28
  of his mind there's duplicity in his own mind where he doesn't
• 1:12:31
  realize that he is he's not intentionally practicing to Kia
• 1:12:34
  is what I'm saying? Or you think, no, it's like this
• 1:12:37
  is a strategy. I don't think you realize how
• 1:12:39
  bad it is. I don't think like they, they,
• 1:12:42
  they talk about it openly. Like they'll literally be like,
• 1:12:45
  guys, we have to go out and say like we love the gays so that we
• 1:12:49
  can take over to West. And then as soon as we take
• 1:12:50
  over, we'll kill all the gays. Like this is his talk to Bell.
• 1:12:53
  So mom domi at a pride, did he go to a pride parade?
• 1:12:56
  Can we look that up? Type in mom domi pride?
• 1:12:58
  So mom domi at a pride parade is like the ultimate takea.
• 1:13:01
  Oh yeah, dude, that's the funniest thing in my life.
• 1:13:03
  Like they're yeah, but I'm not surprised.
• 1:13:07
  What does the Quran teach about people who believe, who believe
• 1:13:10
  they're gay, or who say they're gay?
• 1:13:12
  Muhammad said well the Quran doesn't have a punishment for it
• 1:13:16
  just says it's a sin. But in the hadith it says what
• 1:13:18
  you should do is take the highest tower and throw them off
• 1:13:21
  and if they don't die you stoned them.
• 1:13:24
  That's the punishment. And what is a hadith?
• 1:13:27
  How's a hadith different from the Quran?
• 1:13:29
  So a hadith is so the Quran tells you something's wrong.
• 1:13:32
  The hadith tells you what to do. Basically the Bible, it's like
• 1:13:35
  the Bible of the Catechism. It's like, oh, we believe in a
• 1:13:38
  Trinity, but how do we define a Trinity?
• 1:13:40
  We believe that like Mary existed.
• 1:13:42
  Like what are the dogmas behind Mary?
• 1:13:43
  You know what I mean? So it's kind of like that.
• 1:13:45
  So it's a sin. OK, So what's the punishment for
• 1:13:48
  the sin? Thrown off the highest building.
• 1:13:50
  And then if they still are alive, you, you stoned them to
• 1:13:54
  death. And what about honor killings?
• 1:13:56
  What are the hadiths on honor killings?
• 1:13:59
  Honor's killing is a very cultural thing and there are
• 1:14:01
  some hadith about women if for example, they kind of did it to
• 1:14:07
  themselves type of thing. So if you're being promiscuous
• 1:14:12
  and you are leading men to want to do that to you, then it's
• 1:14:16
  kind of the blames on you as well.
• 1:14:18
  So you're, you're, you're wanting to be, can I say a word
• 1:14:22
  on, OK, you're wanting to be raped basically.
• 1:14:26
  So then you deserve to die. So yeah.
• 1:14:30
  But it's kind of like you have to read like every single like
• 1:14:34
  case because not everyone wants to be, no one wants to be.
• 1:14:38
  But but in Hadith it's like, well, if you're dressing that
• 1:14:41
  way, then you're you want to be so.
• 1:14:43
  What's the Islamic view of rape? That's a loaded question.
• 1:14:47
  What do you mean like? Is it ever a justified?
• 1:14:51
  Well, do you consider taking sex slaves against our will?
• 1:14:54
  Yes, definitely. Then it's justified that that's
• 1:14:59
  fine. But if you, if you, if I will,
• 1:15:03
  had a sex slave and if my friend had a sex slave and he my sex
• 1:15:06
  slave, then he'd be a rapist because he's she's my sex slave,
• 1:15:09
  not yours. That's how it works.
• 1:15:12
  So yeah, not not pretty at all. And what about the treatment of
• 1:15:16
  children? What's the view on children?
• 1:15:19
  So there's no age of consent in Islam, so in theory you can
• 1:15:23
  marry someone born yesterday. And that does happen, right?
• 1:15:27
  Very young marriages are arranged.
• 1:15:29
  Yeah, that's very much. And didn't Muhammad have a very
• 1:15:33
  a child wife? Yeah, she was.
• 1:15:35
  She was married a six and he consummated A9.
• 1:15:37
  The only reason why we believe he consummated A9 because he
• 1:15:41
  couldn't physically do it, not because he was waiting for
• 1:15:43
  something. So yeah, but in theory.
• 1:15:48
  How does the modern Muslim take that piece of history about
• 1:15:52
  Muhammad that he a nine year old?
• 1:15:55
  That's a great question and I don't know.
• 1:15:58
  I don't. Know like, is someone going to
• 1:15:59
  ask Momdami that? I hope so.
• 1:16:02
  I hope he says. I don't like paedophilia,
• 1:16:05
  paedophilia like, like, I hope we're all in agreement here.
• 1:16:08
  But. How can you say there is only
• 1:16:10
  one God and Muhammad at his prophet and follow a religion
• 1:16:12
  that Muhammad gave you from God but Muhammad as part of his
• 1:16:18
  religious practice he raped a nine year old well.
• 1:16:22
  No, no, no. She had to have consent in some
• 1:16:24
  way. It's not real.
• 1:16:26
  He they just. That's what they say.
• 1:16:28
  Yeah, it's just like, well, they'll just say that she had to
• 1:16:32
  have been mature enough. Even if she was one years old,
• 1:16:36
  she had to be mature enough in some way.
• 1:16:38
  She would have to be. They would justify it and how
• 1:16:43
  did he do it? I don't know.
• 1:16:44
  And the reason why I'm so uncomfortable right now is
• 1:16:46
  because I'm thinking about it and I have a family member named
• 1:16:50
  after her and that family member's a baby right now.
• 1:16:53
  And I was very hurtful when that person named her that name
• 1:16:57
  Aisha. Because every time I look at
• 1:17:00
  that baby now, I think of that six year old.
• 1:17:02
  So I don't want to cry on the screen, but it's just like, it
• 1:17:05
  really hurts because even though my family's Muslim and they
• 1:17:09
  named that baby Aisha, I can't call her that.
• 1:17:13
  Every time I see her, I just call her Princess Youssef
• 1:17:15
  because the last name is Youssef too.
• 1:17:17
  Because I just cannot. I cannot in my heart of hearts,
• 1:17:20
  it really hurts my heart. And yeah, it's just, it's
• 1:17:26
  terrible. It's terrible and it's
• 1:17:28
  disgusting and it's, I pray and I hope that people are better
• 1:17:34
  than that, but I obviously they're not.
• 1:17:37
  And as someone who I went through something similar when I
• 1:17:42
  was a kid that that happened to me.
• 1:17:44
  And if anyone something happened to me as a kid basically, and
• 1:17:51
  they left a scar on me with when in that area.
• 1:17:55
  And if someone did that to a child in front of me, I think I
• 1:18:00
  would lose it so quickly that I couldn't even fathom.
• 1:18:05
  And I think I'd ask every Muslim parent, would you allow your
• 1:18:10
  baby girl to, to go through that?
• 1:18:13
  And if the answer is no, then why do you follow Muhammad?
• 1:18:18
  So yeah. I'm so sorry that happened to
• 1:18:20
  you to. Levy his life.
• 1:18:23
  Can you share how young you were?
• 1:18:25
  I was eight, yeah. And was that, was it connected
• 1:18:29
  to Islam at all? No, that was just like evil
• 1:18:33
  people doing evil things. Evil that you experienced, Yeah,
• 1:18:37
  but it gives you a great heart for people who are enduring
• 1:18:40
  that. Let's just say when I heard that
• 1:18:42
  about Muhammad, it made it very easy to leave very quickly.
• 1:18:46
  Tell me about why you left Islam.
• 1:18:50
  I left Islam when I was 16 and it was because this was in
• 1:18:54
  Canada. So I did high school in Canada,
• 1:18:57
  kind of moved back when I was 15.
• 1:18:58
  And my best friend, he's still my best friend until today.
• 1:19:01
  He started asking me questions about Islam.
• 1:19:05
  And I think he realized that because he started reading about
• 1:19:08
  Islam just to check it out. And he's an atheist.
• 1:19:10
  And he was like, Ishmael, I don't think you know about
• 1:19:13
  Islam. He keeps saying it's peaceful.
• 1:19:15
  I don't think it's peaceful. I'm like, yes, it is.
• 1:19:17
  It's religion of peace. And he's like, OK, I challenge
• 1:19:21
  you to read about the life of Muhammad.
• 1:19:22
  I was like, OK, I'll do it. So I I picked up some hadith and
• 1:19:28
  I read it in Arabic and I started on a Monday and by that
• 1:19:33
  Friday I left Islam literally took me 5 days because every
• 1:19:38
  single thing that I read was like like almost 9 things. 9 out
• 1:19:42
  of 10 things was like this is bad, this is bad this is bad.
• 1:19:46
  And I realized on Friday that my morality as a 16 year old is
• 1:19:52
  higher than this person's morality.
• 1:19:54
  And it was actually the verse about sex slavery that did it
• 1:19:57
  for me. When I read that and I saw that
• 1:20:00
  Muhammad said that it was OK to take woman against her will.
• 1:20:04
  I, I literally felt physically sick.
• 1:20:08
  I, I thought I was going to throw.
• 1:20:10
  I was physically sick. I remember it so vividly.
• 1:20:13
  I was in my bedroom and I live by the water.
• 1:20:18
  So I had like it was in the summer.
• 1:20:20
  It was June 2016. I had the window open and I was
• 1:20:24
  and I I feel like people should have heard because I was yelling
• 1:20:26
  at God and. I, I was, I read it and I looked
• 1:20:30
  out in the ocean and I was like, I started saying, like F you,
• 1:20:34
  God, why would you do? Why would you do that?
• 1:20:36
  Why would you? Why would you tell your prophet
• 1:20:38
  to do that? Like, what are you?
• 1:20:41
  How dare you, how dare you do that?
• 1:20:43
  You can do that to my mom, who can do that to him?
• 1:20:45
  Like I don't have a sister, but I have some very close female
• 1:20:48
  friends. You can do that to them.
• 1:20:50
  Like I was mad and then I, I was, I, I couldn't sleep that
• 1:20:57
  night. And then I talked to my atheist
• 1:21:01
  friend about it and he's like, and then I re.
• 1:21:04
  And then I actually, he told me like, yeah, so why do you think
• 1:21:07
  you're still Muslim? And then I said it and I said
• 1:21:11
  because it gives me comfort. And when I told my friend that
• 1:21:15
  that it gives me comfort, I, I left Islam right away.
• 1:21:20
  Like as soon as I said that, I just came out and I was like,
• 1:21:22
  yeah, I can't be a Muslim anymore because just because
• 1:21:26
  it's comfortable doesn't mean it's true.
• 1:21:29
  And I, I knew that from a young age.
• 1:21:31
  That doesn't matter if it's comfortable.
• 1:21:33
  It matters if it's true. And I realized it's not true.
• 1:21:37
  It's a lie. It's a lie from the devil.
• 1:21:40
  And it's destroyed societies and destroyed people's lives.
• 1:21:44
  And I was devastated. I was, I was at a park,
• 1:21:47
  actually, and it was him and his girlfriend.
• 1:21:49
  And they were talking to me and I was bawling my eyes out.
• 1:21:53
  And they were like, and his atheist friend, the God bless
• 1:21:56
  this man and he's probably going to watch this because he watched
• 1:21:58
  all my stuff. You know, he disagrees with
• 1:22:00
  everything. But he, he, he looked at me and
• 1:22:03
  he said, you should go pray. And I was like, what?
• 1:22:08
  He's like, obviously this religion meant something to you.
• 1:22:12
  Go and pray and see how you feel.
• 1:22:14
  So I went home and I prayed to Allah.
• 1:22:18
  I did the Muslim prayer. And it was the first time my
• 1:22:21
  entire life I felt nothing with no connection to God.
• 1:22:25
  I, I, every verse that I recite from the Quran, I got angrier
• 1:22:29
  and angrier and I was then I was like, I'm never going to pray to
• 1:22:32
  this God again. And I left Islam and I didn't
• 1:22:38
  want to look into any religion because I was like, my mom was
• 1:22:41
  right. Religion was bad.
• 1:22:42
  Like she grew up JW and it destroyed her life.
• 1:22:45
  And Islam just destroyed my life.
• 1:22:46
  So I'm not going to do religion either.
• 1:22:48
  So I became like a nihilistic atheist and I kind of, I did a
• 1:22:51
  lot of drugs and drank a lot. And yeah, that was a dark two
• 1:22:56
  years of my life when I was a nihilistic atheist because I
• 1:22:59
  just kind of didn't care about anything.
• 1:23:02
  But I was free, though. I was free because you know
• 1:23:07
  what? The first thing I did the next
• 1:23:08
  day. Eat some bacon.
• 1:23:10
  I had pepperoni pizza and I went down and I was like, you know
• 1:23:14
  what we're gonna do? I told all my own, all the guy
• 1:23:16
  friends like, yo, I just left Islam.
• 1:23:18
  And he's like, yo, that's awesome.
• 1:23:19
  Like you want a beer? What do you want to do?
• 1:23:21
  Like I want some pepperoni. So he went down and got
• 1:23:23
  pepperoni pizza and I was like, this is amazing.
• 1:23:27
  And there might be TMI, but if you're a Muslim and you leave
• 1:23:31
  Islam, eat only a little bit of pepperoni because your stomach
• 1:23:34
  is not ready to receive it and you're going to be suffering for
• 1:23:37
  a few hours. But that's besides the point.
• 1:23:40
  But the pepperoni is amazing. And I loved it.
• 1:23:42
  And then I had like a beer and I was like, yo, this is great.
• 1:23:44
  And like, I'm just like, I'm trying everything.
• 1:23:46
  But freedom isn't everything. Like just because you're free to
• 1:23:49
  do stuff, to me, you should do it right?
• 1:23:51
  Because I started doing drugs and I started just trying
• 1:23:54
  things. I tried and I realized I was
• 1:23:56
  doing these things now, not just to experience them, but to
• 1:24:00
  escape reality because being an an atheist didn't answer my
• 1:24:05
  questions. It caused more harm than good
• 1:24:08
  because now I'm just like, I have no, I have no like moral
• 1:24:11
  code. I have nothing.
• 1:24:12
  I'm just living like a hedonistic life and I'm just
• 1:24:15
  like even the way I looked at women now, like even in Islam, I
• 1:24:19
  almost like felt like I looked a little better because at least I
• 1:24:22
  didn't want to like commit like fornication.
• 1:24:24
  But now I was like, oh, I was going to go around and sleep
• 1:24:26
  with women now and do whatever I want, but it let me down a route
• 1:24:30
  in my life that I eventually end up in the hospital due to drugs
• 1:24:34
  and. How old are you?
• 1:24:37
  18 and it was 3 weeks before I was going to university.
• 1:24:42
  And I remember, I don't remember much of what happened, but I
• 1:24:46
  remember the next day they were like, yeah, your heart stopped
• 1:24:49
  all this stuff and you could have died.
• 1:24:52
  And I was just like, it wouldn't have been too bad if I died.
• 1:24:55
  And when I hit, when that hit me and I was like, I don't why do I
• 1:24:59
  want to die? Like why am I so depressed?
• 1:25:03
  And I actually talked to God again for the first time and I
• 1:25:05
  was like God, I gave you to November because it was like
• 1:25:08
  August. I gave you till November 2018.
• 1:25:12
  If you don't show up till November, December, then I'm
• 1:25:14
  probably going to take my life. But I'll give you 3 months.
• 1:25:17
  Why not be my guest? Little did I know he accepted
• 1:25:22
  the deal because I went to the university and I tried to make
• 1:25:27
  friends with people and like it was, it just wasn't working.
• 1:25:30
  Maybe it was too awkward. I don't know.
• 1:25:32
  But I met this guy, his name is Michael, and he works for an
• 1:25:35
  organization called Catholic Christian Outreach in Canada,
• 1:25:38
  which is like focus in the US. And they go to different
• 1:25:41
  campuses and they, basically, they, they tell people about
• 1:25:44
  Jesus and it's like like 5-6 lessons and they tell you the
• 1:25:49
  basic gospel. And I actually went up to him
• 1:25:53
  because everyone kind of was ignoring him.
• 1:25:54
  He's like doing these Flyers. And I was like, don't want to
• 1:25:56
  look at it. And I was like, oh, I'll see
• 1:25:58
  what he's doing. So I did.
• 1:25:59
  And apparently there was like a survey thing.
• 1:26:01
  And I, I, I, I guess I left my number because that same night
• 1:26:05
  he texted me and he's like, Yo, this is Michael from the, the
• 1:26:09
  Catholic society. Do you want to hang out
• 1:26:11
  tomorrow? And I was like, hi, Michael.
• 1:26:14
  No, I'm not Catholic. I want nothing to do with this.
• 1:26:16
  And he's like, yo, well, we got free food and I was like, I'll
• 1:26:18
  see you at 12. So that that's all it took.
• 1:26:21
  It was like, I think it was actually pepperoni pizza.
• 1:26:23
  There you go. So and the next day I went there
• 1:26:26
  and we show, I show up and then I go to this room and it's
• 1:26:31
  called the chaplaincy. And at the time, the reason why
• 1:26:33
  I say it's called the chaplaincy because I didn't know what a
• 1:26:35
  chaplaincy was. I thought it was the name of
• 1:26:37
  someone like, it was like the, I don't know, like in the Biden
• 1:26:41
  room. I don't know, like it's only
• 1:26:42
  like the chaplaincy room. I was like, OK, I walk in and
• 1:26:45
  there's like a little lounge area and then there's a, a, a
• 1:26:48
  Chapel area with a crucifix. And there's like a window
• 1:26:51
  between the lounge and the, and the Chapel area.
• 1:26:53
  And I look over and I see this huge crucifix with Jesus on it.
• 1:26:57
  And I'm like, OK, and then I'll go over and there's this nun.
• 1:27:00
  She's praying the rosary. And then this is like this other
• 1:27:03
  guy. He's, he's sitting there with
• 1:27:07
  his Bible all highlighted. And I think he's like just
• 1:27:10
  praying to God like this. Like he's like talking to God
• 1:27:13
  and like, where the heck am I? And Michael shows up and he's
• 1:27:16
  like, hey, how's it going? Like, let's go in a small room
• 1:27:19
  here. We'll talk.
• 1:27:20
  So we're in the Chapel area and, and like he's standing, he's
• 1:27:23
  sitting like in front of me and behind him is the crucifix.
• 1:27:26
  So while he's talking to me, Jesus just staring at me the
• 1:27:29
  whole time. And he's like, yeah.
• 1:27:30
  So we're a Catholic society. We do these things called like
• 1:27:34
  faith studies, talk about Jesus. And I was just like, oh, I'm not
• 1:27:37
  Catholic. I unbelieve in religion.
• 1:27:39
  And he's like, that's fine. Like it's more philosophical
• 1:27:42
  anyway and don't worry about it. And I was like, it wasn't that.
• 1:27:45
  Oh, by the way, it was very religious.
• 1:27:46
  It was not philosophical. And eventually, like I agreed to
• 1:27:52
  it because I in my mind, I was like, this is kind of sad.
• 1:27:57
  They actually believe that religion is true.
• 1:27:59
  And I was like, this probably like Islam, I got to make them
• 1:28:03
  leave Christianity. So I came back everyday.
• 1:28:06
  I failed my first semester university and I came back every
• 1:28:09
  single day and told them why Christianity was stupid.
• 1:28:13
  And every single day they basically were nice to me.
• 1:28:17
  And man didn't make me upset. It made me so upset because I
• 1:28:22
  was an A hole to them the whole time.
• 1:28:25
  And they were just like, yeah, but we still love you.
• 1:28:27
  And I'm like screw you. You shouldn't love me.
• 1:28:30
  You should be upset with me. And eventually they invited me
• 1:28:33
  to Thanksgiving and they're like, yo, we're.
• 1:28:37
  Going to you have Thanksgiving in Canada?
• 1:28:39
  Yeah, ours in October though, OK, OK.
• 1:28:40
  So we're doing Thanksgiving and they're like, yo, we're going to
• 1:28:45
  this cottage area and then. Going to this what?
• 1:28:47
  Cottage and then we're going to stay overnight.
• 1:28:50
  Do you? Do the Turkey.
• 1:28:52
  Yeah, yeah, I did the Turkey, all the the whole 9 yards.
• 1:28:54
  And we go there and then they're like, oh, tomorrow's, tomorrow's
• 1:28:57
  Mass. So we're all going to go to
• 1:28:59
  church. And that's when it hit me.
• 1:29:01
  I was the only non Christian with them.
• 1:29:04
  And I was like, OK, maybe this is planned.
• 1:29:07
  Maybe they wanted me to become Christian, but I can't leave now
• 1:29:11
  because we're in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:29:12
  Like once you leave Halifax in, in Nova Scotia, there is nothing
• 1:29:17
  like the next city is like, I don't know, 500 miles away.
• 1:29:22
  So it's like the next thing is the bears, like you got bears
• 1:29:25
  and and moose. So like my either, I stay with
• 1:29:27
  the Christians, I get eaten by a bear.
• 1:29:30
  So I'm like, OK, I'm go, I'm staying with the Christians.
• 1:29:32
  So I'm sitting there and I'm like, it's actually funny
• 1:29:34
  because they're like, yo, make sure you guys wear church
• 1:29:37
  attire. That's what the one the
• 1:29:39
  missionary said. And I was like, do y'all wear
• 1:29:41
  like uniforms at church? He's like, no, just look nice.
• 1:29:43
  I was like, oh, OK, so I dress up a little bit and I like
• 1:29:46
  sitting there in Mass and then like, Mass is so strange.
• 1:29:50
  Is this your first mass? Yeah, people are standing up and
• 1:29:53
  down. There's bread involved.
• 1:29:55
  There's a cup up there. And then we were doing a sign of
• 1:29:58
  peace. And I'm like the lamb thing was
• 1:30:01
  so odd and like the Lamb of God and he's holding a piece of
• 1:30:04
  bread right in my mind and saying the Lamb of God takes
• 1:30:07
  away the sins of the world. And I'm like, are y'all bringing
• 1:30:10
  in a lamb? Like I was like waiting for the
• 1:30:11
  lamb to come down to the aisle and there's nothing's happening.
• 1:30:15
  And eventually, like the mass ends and they're all like, what
• 1:30:18
  did you think? And they're all smiling at me.
• 1:30:20
  And I'm just like, very culty. Actually, it looked very culty.
• 1:30:24
  Like eventually, like we were about to leave and his woman
• 1:30:28
  came up to us and she was like, yo, I want all 15 of you guys to
• 1:30:32
  come to my house for a Thanksgiving dinner tonight.
• 1:30:35
  Like, I felt called by the Lord, which was a weird statement for
• 1:30:39
  me to hear, called by the Lord. But I was like, OK, I guess I'm
• 1:30:43
  gonna die tonight because that's how you die in movies.
• 1:30:46
  But like, and all the Christians are naive, like, oh, yeah, it's
• 1:30:49
  really the Holy Spirit told her we're going, we're going to
• 1:30:52
  Thanksgiving. And I was like, all right, cool.
• 1:30:54
  So we go to her house and we're sitting there and we're eating
• 1:30:56
  Thanksgiving. She got to have planned that I
• 1:30:58
  don't just have enough Thanksgiving dinner for 15
• 1:31:01
  people. There was like too many turkeys
• 1:31:03
  too. And I was like, you're waiting.
• 1:31:05
  For someone told her about that before.
• 1:31:06
  But it was like a small town, like a middle of nowhere.
• 1:31:09
  And then God was like, these random university students are
• 1:31:12
  coming in, like, you got to take.
• 1:31:14
  And so we show up to our house and they pray before the meal.
• 1:31:19
  And it's the weirdest prayers ever in my mind because the only
• 1:31:22
  prayers I knew were like Muslim prayers about like, like they
• 1:31:26
  were formulized. Like, oh, like you pray to God
• 1:31:30
  in formal Arabic. You say this and that's it.
• 1:31:33
  These people are like Jesus man, I thank you so much.
• 1:31:36
  So you you killed my dad from cancer.
• 1:31:39
  I got AB minus on my report card and I'm like what dude?
• 1:31:41
  Who you talking to? Like he's not here.
• 1:31:43
  So this wasn't just blessed us, O Lord, and these day gifts,
• 1:31:45
  this was like we're all going to pray together and thank.
• 1:31:47
  Him. Yeah.
• 1:31:48
  They were like, oh, like they're praying, like praying, praying.
• 1:31:51
  And then I was like, these people are very much like they
• 1:31:54
  think he's real. They actually think this guy's
• 1:31:56
  real, like he's in the room with them.
• 1:31:59
  And that's that scared me even more.
• 1:32:01
  I was like, these people are schizophrenic.
• 1:32:03
  So I'm sitting there and eventually it gets to me.
• 1:32:06
  I'm the last person. Like they planned it.
• 1:32:07
  And I didn't know what to say. But I do know one word I knew
• 1:32:11
  Amen. So I was like, Amen as I cross
• 1:32:14
  myself. I learned that from a movie.
• 1:32:16
  Just like, OK. And then after the dinner, they
• 1:32:20
  start doing praise and worship and they're all, they're all
• 1:32:22
  like singing their songs and all looking so joyful.
• 1:32:25
  And I'm sitting there and there was like 15 of them going around
• 1:32:28
  like praising Jesus. And I'm sitting there and they
• 1:32:31
  look so happy and I'm like, why are they so happy?
• 1:32:36
  How can they be so happy? And it hit me, they're happy
• 1:32:41
  because they have something I don't have and I don't know what
• 1:32:45
  it is. And I have two conclusions.
• 1:32:48
  They all took the Xanax before coming here, but I know.
• 1:32:53
  Thanksgiving. Oh, Turkey.
• 1:32:54
  You know, it makes me feel a little sleepy.
• 1:32:56
  Exactly. And like, but I I did drugs.
• 1:32:59
  I know what drugs do. This is not it or this is real.
• 1:33:04
  They're actually encountering something I'm not encountering.
• 1:33:08
  And I whispered to myself, and I was like, Jesus, if you're real,
• 1:33:13
  tell me right now. And as soon as I said that, I
• 1:33:17
  went from an atheist to a Christian like that, like
• 1:33:20
  literally a millisecond. At the time, I didn't know it
• 1:33:23
  was the Holy Spirit, but it entered my body and it it filled
• 1:33:27
  something in my heart that just expanded everywhere.
• 1:33:31
  And I, I couldn't even imagine, like I can't even explain any
• 1:33:37
  words it. It felt like, you know, when
• 1:33:42
  you're a kid and you have a nightmare and you run to your
• 1:33:45
  mom's arms and she hugs you, It was like I finally felt that
• 1:33:49
  again for the first time in my life.
• 1:33:52
  And then I started crying. I'm going to cry again just
• 1:33:55
  thinking about it. And I am, I started remembering
• 1:33:59
  all the moments in my life for God try to call me home to
• 1:34:02
  Jesus. And there were so many moments
• 1:34:05
  where I could have become a Christian and I just kept
• 1:34:08
  denying it over and over and over.
• 1:34:10
  And I eventually I left the house and the people followed me
• 1:34:14
  and they're like Ishmael, you're right.
• 1:34:16
  And I was like, I don't know what happened, but I think Jesus
• 1:34:20
  is real. I think I felt the Holy Spirit
• 1:34:22
  and they're like, do you know what the Holy Spirit is?
• 1:34:24
  And I was like, I have no idea what the Holy Spirit is or who
• 1:34:28
  he is, but I know he's real. And I was like, OK, I got to
• 1:34:33
  talk to God. So I look up to God because I'm
• 1:34:36
  assuming he's up there. And I look up and like the
• 1:34:39
  moon's out. It's like a nice night.
• 1:34:41
  And I just look at him and I'm like, listen, man, I messed up.
• 1:34:46
  I didn't know you were real. I'm sorry.
• 1:34:50
  I love you, Jesus. We'll talk later.
• 1:34:52
  I just did. You're freaking out.
• 1:34:53
  I think they want me back in there.
• 1:34:55
  So I think, I think God bless, like, all right, Jesus, God
• 1:35:00
  bless. And I walk into the house and
• 1:35:02
  like, and then they pray over me.
• 1:35:04
  And then this old, the old woman, her name's Eleanor, the
• 1:35:07
  woman that invited me to the house, she had holy oil and she
• 1:35:10
  starts putting it over my head and like my, my arms.
• 1:35:12
  And then they're not. Holy water, Holy oil.
• 1:35:15
  Holy oil like chrismation oil that they had blast or
• 1:35:17
  something. And eventually they, her husband
• 1:35:22
  was talking to me and I, I will never remember this guy's name
• 1:35:25
  for the life of me. He told me like 5 times, but
• 1:35:27
  I'll never remember his name because I was so much in like
• 1:35:31
  awe of what was going on that he was, he was basically telling me
• 1:35:35
  the gospel message like yeah. And he died for us and all this
• 1:35:38
  stuff. And I'm like, I know, I know he
• 1:35:40
  told me right now. Like he told, he told me he died
• 1:35:42
  for me. And then they all prayed it for
• 1:35:45
  me. And then it was funny.
• 1:35:46
  You were going back to the city the next day and I'm like, man,
• 1:35:50
  how am I go back to university? Like what am I going to do?
• 1:35:53
  So I go back to university and I'm like, I'm literally like, I
• 1:35:57
  gotta tell everyone. So I go around my my university
• 1:35:59
  telling people about Jesus. I'm like, yo, I met Jesus 2 days
• 1:36:03
  ago. He's awesome.
• 1:36:04
  Like, yeah, you can actually meet him.
• 1:36:06
  Like he's real. Like you could like, almost like
• 1:36:07
  you're meeting me. And people are like, this guy's
• 1:36:09
  weird. Like this guy's got to chill.
• 1:36:11
  And then even the missionaries were like, hey, we're going to
• 1:36:12
  have a process here. Like, and then told me about
• 1:36:14
  like our CIA and all that stuff. And then eventually I got
• 1:36:17
  baptized, first communion and confirmation.
• 1:36:20
  And then I never looked back. And now I'm here.
• 1:36:24
  So praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.
• 1:36:26
  Hey man, it's crazy. It's amazing.
• 1:36:28
  Yeah, it is amazing. What was it like to get
• 1:36:31
  baptized? Is it bad to say anticlimactic?
• 1:36:35
  No. Like it's just like.
• 1:36:37
  You have the baptism of the Spirit already.
• 1:36:39
  Oh. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:36:40
  But I literally like also if my hair is very thick I didn't even
• 1:36:44
  I didn't even feel it so and I wanted to get dunked.
• 1:36:47
  I was like yo can y'all dunk me? Like I want to be like you know
• 1:36:50
  like the orthodox with the baby like I want dad.
• 1:36:52
  I get like 5 priests to hold me and push me down.
• 1:36:55
  But they're like, I'm a big baby, I know.
• 1:36:56
  But exactly. But they're like, no, we're not
• 1:36:58
  doing that. Like we have a pool and we're
• 1:37:00
  just going to do this. So the the priest takes it and
• 1:37:02
  pours it three times and like, oh, we're done.
• 1:37:04
  And I was like, what he's like, yeah.
• 1:37:06
  And he gives me a towel. I'm like, I don't even need the
• 1:37:08
  towel because I don't even like it's over.
• 1:37:09
  Like it just falls off my head. And then I would say the best,
• 1:37:13
  the best one was first communion.
• 1:37:15
  That was that was wild to me because I heard like, I, I think
• 1:37:19
  I actually felt something when I received the body and blood of
• 1:37:22
  Christ the first time where I remember the priest, I have
• 1:37:27
  still good friends until today. He looked at me and he held it
• 1:37:30
  up and he said the body of Christ.
• 1:37:32
  And he was like slow motion in my mind.
• 1:37:34
  And I was like, Oh, my goodness, I'm going to receive Jesus
• 1:37:37
  physically. I'm going to receive him
• 1:37:39
  physically. Am I even ready?
• 1:37:40
  I am ready. I'm, I'm not sin.
• 1:37:42
  I have no sin in me. I just got baptized.
• 1:37:44
  Did I did I, can I do it? And I just like I said, Amen.
• 1:37:47
  And then he like gives it to me and I consume it.
• 1:37:51
  And it was almost like a very similar feeling to receiving the
• 1:37:54
  Holy Spirit, like just ignited my life.
• 1:37:56
  And I was just like, Oh my gosh, Oh, my gosh, I received Jesus.
• 1:38:01
  This is so cool. I'm going to tell people I
• 1:38:02
  received Jesus. But then I realized people
• 1:38:05
  didn't understand that either. So I had to calm down with that
• 1:38:07
  one. And then, yeah, I, I don't know.
• 1:38:11
  I don't know. Well, it's just everything was
• 1:38:13
  just so amazing. And then I went through a period
• 1:38:18
  after that where I started telling people about God and
• 1:38:22
  doing Bible studies. And little by little, I'd share
• 1:38:25
  my testimony with Muslims. And I'd actually in my
• 1:38:28
  university, I would look for people who looked Muslim and
• 1:38:32
  tell them that I used to be a Muslim.
• 1:38:34
  So I'd go over there and be like, yeah, oh, you're Muslim.
• 1:38:36
  Oh, that's awesome. I used to be Muslim.
• 1:38:37
  And I'd slide in the conversation and eventually just
• 1:38:42
  kept growing and kept growing. And then the Lord put on my
• 1:38:46
  heart to make YouTube. And I started doing YouTube
• 1:38:48
  stuff and then Instagram stuff. And then people found out about
• 1:38:52
  it, and then now I'm talking to people around the world about
• 1:38:54
  it. So yeah.
• 1:38:56
  It's amazing. And you know, I, we heard we had
• 1:39:00
  Nick Kingsley on the show. She's talking about how she had
• 1:39:03
  ultimately visions, these deep spiritual experiences of Mary
• 1:39:07
  leading her to Jesus. Was that part of your conversion
• 1:39:11
  at all? Did you have any sort of
• 1:39:13
  mystical experiences? You talked about being
• 1:39:18
  experiencing Jesus, saying Jesus, if you're real, show me.
• 1:39:21
  And then just feeling that he's real in every fiber of your
• 1:39:23
  being. When I was 13 years old, I
• 1:39:29
  challenged myself once after one of my friends who was a Coptic
• 1:39:32
  Christian and he's, he still talks to me till today.
• 1:39:36
  He told me like, hey, you know, you just got to ask God who he
• 1:39:38
  is and I'll tell you. And I was like, OK, I'll, I'll,
• 1:39:42
  I'll try. And I asked God.
• 1:39:44
  I was like, God, I need a sign. I need something, just show me
• 1:39:47
  something. And I had this dream that same
• 1:39:50
  night. And the reason every time I talk
• 1:39:53
  about it, I get emotional. So I'm trying not to be
• 1:39:55
  emotional, but I had this dream and in the dream, I, I like, I'm
• 1:40:00
  standing and I'm walking through a crowd and eventually like the
• 1:40:03
  crowd's so big, I'm trying to get to the middle of it.
• 1:40:06
  And I get to the middle and I look up and I see three people
• 1:40:11
  dying on crosses. And then I look at the person in
• 1:40:14
  the middle and he looks at me and it's so interesting because
• 1:40:20
  it looked like no other illustration of Jesus I ever saw
• 1:40:24
  in my life. Like I've never seen a picture
• 1:40:26
  that looks like him the way I saw him I've never seen.
• 1:40:29
  I think the closest thing is like the Divine Mercy chaplet
• 1:40:32
  picture, but even that doesn't do it justice.
• 1:40:35
  And I couldn't even see his facial features very well
• 1:40:38
  because of how bloody his face was.
• 1:40:40
  But I did see his eyes and his eyes were brown and they looked
• 1:40:44
  right at me and I looked at him and that was the whole dream.
• 1:40:48
  He just looked at me and I'm getting goosebumps just thinking
• 1:40:53
  about it. And I, I woke up and I
• 1:40:56
  researched as I looked on my phone, I was like Jesus dying.
• 1:41:00
  And because I didn't know that two other people died was Jesus.
• 1:41:03
  No one taught me that. And I, I looked it up and I
• 1:41:06
  found out there were two other people beside Jesus that are
• 1:41:09
  being crucified. And I was like, OK, OK, that's
• 1:41:14
  weird. That's very weird.
• 1:41:17
  God just answered me. Or, or, or, or it's seen trying
• 1:41:23
  to trick me not being Muslim. Or maybe I made it up and I'm
• 1:41:27
  going to go to bed and I'm going to be a good Muslim and I want
• 1:41:29
  to live my life and we're not going to talk about this.
• 1:41:32
  So I went to bed and I never talked about it with anyone
• 1:41:36
  until a couple years later and I started telling people when I
• 1:41:40
  was like 1516, like, hey, did you guys ever have like dreams
• 1:41:45
  of Jesus? And they're like, no.
• 1:41:47
  And I was like, OK, don't worry about it.
• 1:41:49
  Nevermind. We're not going to talk about
• 1:41:50
  it. So but I'd, I'd mention it every
• 1:41:52
  once in a while to people like, hey, I had this dream of Jesus
• 1:41:56
  when I was a kid and even before I became a Christian.
• 1:41:59
  The same atheist friend that told me about to read Muhammad's
• 1:42:02
  life, he also like I, I remember telling him a few times like I
• 1:42:06
  had, I had used to have dreams of Jesus when I was a kid.
• 1:42:09
  And he was like, oh, I guess, you know, big people have
• 1:42:12
  dreams. And I didn't think about it
• 1:42:13
  much. And it wasn't until my
• 1:42:15
  conversion that I realized God was trying to reach me through
• 1:42:19
  that dream. It really was.
• 1:42:21
  And he answered me directly in that dream.
• 1:42:24
  And it's the only dream where I actually could have.
• 1:42:28
  I felt the ground underneath my feet and I could smell the air
• 1:42:33
  and like, I was like, I was physically there.
• 1:42:35
  It's like I'm in the room with you right now.
• 1:42:36
  Like I was like physically there.
• 1:42:38
  And I am puzzled. Someone asked me another
• 1:42:40
  interview if do I believe that in a sense somehow God actually
• 1:42:45
  brought me back to the resurrection somehow or the
• 1:42:47
  crucifixion? I mean, and I don't know, I
• 1:42:50
  don't want to put anything like that on me.
• 1:42:52
  Like I'm just a person. But I think about it sometimes
• 1:42:56
  and I think it's interesting because my patron St. is Mary
• 1:43:02
  Magdalene, and she was at the crucifixion and I always fell in
• 1:43:07
  love with Mary Magdalene. Even as a Muslim.
• 1:43:09
  For some reason, I felt like she was always pulling me to the
• 1:43:13
  crucifixion. And I always preach Christ
• 1:43:17
  crucified whenever I'm talking to people that he died.
• 1:43:20
  I don't know what it is like. The resurrection is the most
• 1:43:22
  important part too. But the the suffering he
• 1:43:26
  endured, they didn't have to endure.
• 1:43:29
  There are Saints that said that if he even just let one drop of
• 1:43:33
  blood, it would have been enough to fulfill all of the sin in the
• 1:43:36
  world. But he didn't choose that.
• 1:43:38
  He chose to go through the most gruesome, most horrific
• 1:43:43
  suffering. And his best friend John and
• 1:43:48
  Mary Magdalene and his own mother were there watching this
• 1:43:53
  gruesome event. And while they're doing it, he's
• 1:43:58
  saying forgive them. Something about that event just
• 1:44:02
  that shook me to the core because I was always taught an
• 1:44:07
  eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
• 1:44:09
  I was always taught that we had to fight the enemies.
• 1:44:13
  But this was a different fight. This was a fight of sacrificing
• 1:44:17
  yourself for the greater good. And that's the beauty of
• 1:44:20
  Christianity, that regardless of what happens, you still
• 1:44:26
  sacrifice yourself for the greater good because there will
• 1:44:30
  be a resurrection one day. And that's where I have my
• 1:44:32
  faith. When everything else falls
• 1:44:34
  apart, when all the dogmas at the church make no sense to me,
• 1:44:37
  when the people in charge might be corrupt, I look at the
• 1:44:41
  crucifixion, resurrection, that Christ really died and he really
• 1:44:46
  rose. And that is my faith.
• 1:44:51
  Did you tell those Christians, did you remember that dream when
• 1:44:54
  you were arguing with those Christians as that first year
• 1:44:58
  university student going to that Catholic group?
• 1:45:01
  And I told them about the dream, and they're like, I think that's
• 1:45:05
  really important. Ishmael, maybe you should really
• 1:45:06
  think about that dream a lot. Please think about it.
• 1:45:09
  I was like, Nah, it's just a dream.
• 1:45:12
  That probably made them really frustrated.
• 1:45:13
  They're like they're like the same missionary.
• 1:45:18
  His name is Michael a matter friends name is Ken and he would
• 1:45:21
  talk to Ken about me. He's like, dude, I know this
• 1:45:23
  Muslim guy, or he used to be Muslim who he literally had
• 1:45:26
  dreams about Jesus and keeps coming to the chaplaincy.
• 1:45:30
  He's like he's gone about. Christianity and he won't
• 1:45:33
  convert just like, and then like 2 weeks later he's like, yeah,
• 1:45:37
  he converted. I was like, OK, so it was just
• 1:45:39
  funny that like after I converted, they told me like
• 1:45:42
  they were talking about me like every day.
• 1:45:43
  Like how is this guy not Christian?
• 1:45:45
  But yeah, so. But the Lord who had his timing
• 1:45:48
  and I wasn't ready yet, so yeah. What did your dad think about
• 1:45:53
  your conversion and your mom? So my mom found out first and
• 1:45:57
  she found out by accident. So I had a rosary and I didn't
• 1:46:02
  even know how to use it. I thought I was.
• 1:46:04
  All I knew was like, there's a cool cross on it, It looks cool.
• 1:46:08
  I'll use it as a necklace. And I would take it off whenever
• 1:46:11
  I go into the house because I was still living at home at the
• 1:46:13
  time. And I put it in my jacket.
• 1:46:15
  And in my jacket it literally has like a zipper and then a
• 1:46:20
  button. So there's just no way this
• 1:46:21
  rosary can fall out. Like, it's impossible.
• 1:46:25
  I go into the house and the first thing you see is the
• 1:46:28
  kitchen. She's like in the kitchen.
• 1:46:29
  She turns around and the first thing that happens is my zipper,
• 1:46:33
  something like opens by itself and it falls out and the
• 1:46:36
  crucifix is right in front of her face.
• 1:46:39
  And I'm just like, oops, yeah, so I am.
• 1:46:44
  Jesus is Lord mom. Like, I didn't know what to say.
• 1:46:46
  I was like, there's no hiding it now.
• 1:46:48
  Like, and it was interesting because it was like the second
• 1:46:50
  day I was Christian too. So I like, there was no waiting
• 1:46:52
  time. There was like, I couldn't hide
• 1:46:54
  it and it was very hard because my mom actually like fell to the
• 1:46:59
  ground begging me not to be a Christian.
• 1:47:02
  She literally said like, if you loved me, you would not say
• 1:47:04
  Jesus is Lord. And I said, I can't, I can't.
• 1:47:08
  I can't say Jesus is not Lord, He is Lord.
• 1:47:13
  So she was the first person to find out.
• 1:47:15
  And she begged me again on her knees saying that like, please
• 1:47:17
  don't tell your dad, not right now.
• 1:47:20
  And I was like, I had to agree because I didn't know how to
• 1:47:22
  tell him yet. My brother was the second person
• 1:47:27
  to find out. And at the time he was living in
• 1:47:29
  Toronto, so he wasn't at home. And I was like, how am I going
• 1:47:32
  to tell him? Just FaceTime him and be like,
• 1:47:35
  hey, how's it going? By the way, I'm Christian.
• 1:47:37
  Like, I'm not going to do this. And I tried it.
• 1:47:40
  I actually tried to FaceTime him and he didn't answer.
• 1:47:44
  And I was frustrated. So I was like, I got to tell
• 1:47:46
  him. So I took my phone and I texted
• 1:47:48
  him. I was like, his name is Omar.
• 1:47:49
  I was like, hey, Omar, I love you very much.
• 1:47:53
  I became a Christian. Jesus Lord, the Holy Spirit's
• 1:47:55
  real God loves you. Goodnight.
• 1:47:58
  Went to bed, put down, went to bed, cross myself.
• 1:48:02
  And I was like, we'll see what happens in the morning.
• 1:48:04
  I wake up and he calls me and he's like, are you good?
• 1:48:09
  And I was like, yeah, I'm good. He's like, what do you mean
• 1:48:10
  you're a Christian? And I'm like, I accepted Jesus.
• 1:48:14
  And he's like HTML. You know, people don't become
• 1:48:17
  Christian. Like people leave Christianity
• 1:48:19
  like in flocks, like all the priests are pedophiles.
• 1:48:23
  No one believes this man. It's a myth.
• 1:48:25
  And I'm like no, no, no, it's true.
• 1:48:28
  I can't explain to you right now cuz you wanna hear when you come
• 1:48:32
  back to Halifax I'll explain to you.
• 1:48:34
  But he started bashing me almost.
• 1:48:36
  He was like, OK, now you're just brainwashed.
• 1:48:39
  You know, it's my fault because I left Halifax.
• 1:48:41
  I went to the, the big city, Toronto and then kind of like,
• 1:48:44
  and maybe I have to come back and help you.
• 1:48:46
  I was like, no, I'm, I'm fine. I'm fine.
• 1:48:49
  And he's so I think he blames himself a little bit that he
• 1:48:52
  couldn't have saved me from being Christian.
• 1:48:56
  Then my my dad finds out a while later and that one was very hard
• 1:49:03
  and, and he found out when I wasn't even at the house.
• 1:49:05
  So he calls me and I'm on the phone and there's something I
• 1:49:10
  said while I'm on the phone that kind of hinted that I wasn't a
• 1:49:13
  Muslim anymore. And he says like, wait a minute,
• 1:49:18
  are you Muslim? And he never asked me that
• 1:49:20
  directly. I think he just assumed I was.
• 1:49:23
  And he asked me that and I couldn't deny it.
• 1:49:26
  I couldn't say yes. So I said no, I'm not Muslim.
• 1:49:29
  And I could hear him on the phone fall down.
• 1:49:33
  I could literally hear him fall. So I rush back home, and he's
• 1:49:37
  still on the ground. And my mom's yelling at me.
• 1:49:41
  She's like, look what you did to the family.
• 1:49:42
  My brother calls me. And he's like, you're the reason
• 1:49:45
  why the family's breaking up. Eventually, my dad gets up, and
• 1:49:51
  he asked me like, hey, like, what happened?
• 1:49:53
  Like, how did this happen? And I tell him the entire story.
• 1:49:57
  And for a year after that, he didn't tell.
• 1:50:01
  He didn't say I love you for a year after that.
• 1:50:05
  And he would wake up at night with nightmares, screen my name
• 1:50:10
  and he would be sitting in on on the deck outside just crying
• 1:50:14
  every night because he thought that was it.
• 1:50:17
  Like, and he said something that really, really hurts and like,
• 1:50:23
  not on purpose that it hurts, but his, he, he said that in
• 1:50:28
  Islam, everyone gets buried together as a family.
• 1:50:31
  And it hurts him so hard that I will not be buried with them.
• 1:50:36
  And in Islam, two of the two sons are whoever the, the male
• 1:50:40
  children are when the father dies, the, the, the boys, they
• 1:50:45
  wash the body of the father before burying it.
• 1:50:48
  And it deeply hurts him that I won't be able to do that.
• 1:50:52
  I won't be able to say goodbye to him at his, at his funeral.
• 1:50:56
  So that was very hard on him. Years later, now he we're in,
• 1:51:02
  we're all on speaking terms. My brother lives in Montreal now
• 1:51:06
  and we're on speaking terms. My mom and my dad, they, they
• 1:51:10
  live like 2 minutes from where my wife and I live.
• 1:51:13
  We see them every other week. We have dinner together.
• 1:51:16
  And I think it's just like a regular family now.
• 1:51:18
  It's just like we still talk about religion and politics and
• 1:51:20
  that's like everyone. So like that's kind of what we
• 1:51:22
  do. And yeah, we kind of agree to
• 1:51:26
  disagree and move on. And I really respect my dad
• 1:51:30
  because my dad said that he knows what he, his religion
• 1:51:33
  teaches him, but he loves me more than his religion.
• 1:51:38
  And when he said that, like, I, I, I created so much respect for
• 1:51:43
  him. And I, I have so much respect
• 1:51:46
  for that man. And yeah, so I love my parents
• 1:51:50
  and they did an amazing job. And this, this is my life now.
• 1:51:55
  And when he says, I know what my religion teaches, but I love you
• 1:51:58
  more than my religion is Islamic, is Muslim religion, Is
• 1:52:01
  that because if he was practicing it in your, in his
• 1:52:06
  relationship with you as it now you're, I guess considered an
• 1:52:08
  apostate, right? Because you've become Christian,
• 1:52:11
  He's supposed to disown you and not talk to you anymore.
• 1:52:13
  The very least, yes, he's supposed to disown me.
• 1:52:16
  There shouldn't be any communication.
• 1:52:19
  So yeah, but there is. So praise the Lord.
• 1:52:23
  Praise the Lord, What about your larger community?
• 1:52:26
  What about the atheist friend who's going to be listening to
• 1:52:29
  this? Oh, he's awesome.
• 1:52:30
  I love him. He's.
• 1:52:30
  Come on, what's what are you waiting for?
• 1:52:34
  I, I kind of like, I've known him for like 11 years now, so
• 1:52:38
  I've preached him a lot and so I kind of basically just like.
• 1:52:43
  He knows Pascal's Wager, right? Yeah, he does.
• 1:52:45
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 1:52:46
  He's got to do. He's got to do.
• 1:52:47
  He'll figure it out. If it's not real, what's the
• 1:52:50
  problem with believing it? If it is real, you get to go to
• 1:52:53
  heaven. Forever, but I love you bro.
• 1:52:59
  He's a great guy. I love him and he's he's been
• 1:53:02
  destroyed all like he he. Was a big part of your
• 1:53:05
  conversion. Yeah, he was.
• 1:53:06
  And regardless of who I was, Muslim, Atheist or Christian, he
• 1:53:10
  never left my side. He was always there.
• 1:53:12
  And he's like, I'm going to support you no matter what.
• 1:53:14
  Wow, what a guy. So what a guy, yeah.
• 1:53:17
  Ishmael. Why Catholicism?
• 1:53:20
  That is a great question. I tried to be Protestant.
• 1:53:25
  You did. I first.
• 1:53:27
  Yeah, there is. There's more of his journey.
• 1:53:28
  So after my conversion, I started asking Catholics like,
• 1:53:32
  hey, so why do we pray to Mary? I don't know.
• 1:53:35
  Do you know anything about like the Bible?
• 1:53:36
  No, like they like nothing. Like they didn't know anything.
• 1:53:40
  Even these sweet Catholics who were singing the worship songs,
• 1:53:42
  they didn't have the formation. They didn't know how to answer
• 1:53:45
  you. I would say like 95% of
• 1:53:48
  Catholics I met, no, absolutely no reason.
• 1:53:50
  They have no, it's all ground as to why they're Catholic.
• 1:53:53
  Like they have no understanding of the catechism or, and it was,
• 1:53:58
  it was sad because I even talked to a priest once and I was like,
• 1:54:03
  Hey, why do we, why do we pray to the Saints when it says in
• 1:54:07
  the Bible, there's one mediator and he's like, yeah, you know,
• 1:54:13
  I'll just like, why not? And I was like, what?
• 1:54:16
  I was like, bro, you've been, you've been a priest for 12
• 1:54:19
  years and you're, you've no idea why we're praying the same like
• 1:54:23
  so like, and no matter where I went, there wasn't like, just
• 1:54:25
  like a Nova Scotia thing. It was like everywhere I went,
• 1:54:27
  like 90% of the Catholics had no, no reason for being
• 1:54:31
  Catholic, no idea what they believed.
• 1:54:33
  But then a Protestant friend of mine invited me to a Bible study
• 1:54:38
  and I saw people who knew what they believed and they weren't
• 1:54:42
  convicted about it. And they weren't shy about what
• 1:54:45
  they believed. Like the there was a pride
• 1:54:49
  parade that got shut down and they started clapping.
• 1:54:52
  They were so happy about it. And then the Catholics were
• 1:54:55
  like, oh, well, maybe like, maybe we shouldn't be clapping
• 1:54:57
  about it. And I'm like, bro, like, do you
• 1:54:59
  not believe what you believe? Like they were so shy about
• 1:55:02
  like, to the extent that I'm going to say it, I'm going to
• 1:55:07
  say it. Say it to the extent that when
• 1:55:10
  my Bishop found out that I was preaching to Muslims, he was in
• 1:55:13
  shock. You're a Catholic Bishop.
• 1:55:16
  Yeah, he was like, what? What?
• 1:55:17
  What? Why are you?
• 1:55:18
  Why are you preaching to Muslims?
• 1:55:19
  Like, how do the Muslims feel about it?
• 1:55:21
  And. How do the Muslims feel about
• 1:55:23
  it? Like, who cares, bro?
• 1:55:24
  They're going and you want them to go to hell?
• 1:55:26
  Like I don't understand. But meanwhile the the
• 1:55:29
  Protestants, even if their theology is a little bit off, at
• 1:55:32
  least they're on the streets preaching.
• 1:55:34
  At least they're trying. They're going door to door.
• 1:55:36
  They're building new churches and meanwhile I'm at the like
• 1:55:39
  the homily and then the homily is about like, I don't know, the
• 1:55:42
  the hockey game last week, like every, every homily has to be
• 1:55:46
  big. We have a joke that like every
• 1:55:48
  priest has to be a comedian. Like every priest has to have
• 1:55:51
  like they have to be like, Hey, guys, like I had a girlfriend
• 1:55:55
  once. I think the best joke, right?
• 1:55:56
  As a priest, I had a girlfriend once.
• 1:55:57
  But every time I go to a pros and service like rather be like
• 1:56:00
  smokes and mirrors or whatever, at least I'm hearing something
• 1:56:03
  about the Gospel. You know what I mean?
• 1:56:05
  And Catholicism was the most unattractive of all of them
• 1:56:12
  because and all the ex Muslims I knew all became Protestant and
• 1:56:17
  then either Catholic, Orthodox or state Protestant.
• 1:56:19
  But they all. Started.
• 1:56:21
  Started with Protestantism because the Protestants were
• 1:56:24
  actually preaching to the Muslims.
• 1:56:26
  They were actually trying to convert Muslims and every
• 1:56:29
  Catholic I've met to the higher ups, to my Bishop, to bishops in
• 1:56:34
  the USI know bishops in the US and Canada who frown upon
• 1:56:39
  evangelizing Muslims. If you Jews, they frown if they
• 1:56:42
  don't think you should do it. And because you know, like it's
• 1:56:48
  maybe it's better to have them become going to heaven through
• 1:56:51
  ignorance, like because of vatic in Vatican 2.
• 1:56:54
  I think Vatican 2 is valid. In Vatican 2, people who don't
• 1:56:59
  know the gospel through their own ignorance can still get to
• 1:57:01
  heaven. So that's been abused they.
• 1:57:03
  Accept Christ at the moment of death.
• 1:57:05
  No, no, no, you have to don't accept Christ.
• 1:57:07
  And maybe in like, yeah. You need to still have the you
• 1:57:10
  need to still accept Christ in your personal judgement.
• 1:57:13
  You can't. You can't.
• 1:57:14
  You can't just like fly into heaven without any movement of
• 1:57:18
  the will to accept heaven. Yeah, your will has to be
• 1:57:20
  aligned with 100%, but it's been abused so much that now people
• 1:57:25
  are using as if we don't have to evangelize them to the extent
• 1:57:29
  that when we were in the Vatican, I know people in the
• 1:57:34
  Vatican who want to get rid of a confession, just do general
• 1:57:37
  absolution and stuff like that. And it's.
• 1:57:40
  So bad, Ishmael. It's bad.
• 1:57:41
  It's. Terrible.
• 1:57:42
  It's so bad. Lord, have mercy.
• 1:57:44
  The church will prevail today and of course I 100% believe
• 1:57:47
  that. But these are the things that
• 1:57:49
  made me not want to be Catholic. But I, I went back to
• 1:57:54
  Catholicism because I was, I was in a Bible study and I realized
• 1:58:01
  that we were talking about this verse in John.
• 1:58:03
  And the verse in John said the Father's greater than I, right?
• 1:58:06
  And we're talking about it. And like, I just assumed
• 1:58:08
  everyone was Trinitarian, like the basic Christian thing.
• 1:58:11
  And this one guy is like, yeah, that's why I don't believe in
• 1:58:14
  the Trinity, because obviously Jesus was created and the Bible
• 1:58:19
  study, they literally like half of the people basically
• 1:58:23
  concluded that you don't have to be a Trinitarian to be a
• 1:58:26
  Christian. And I was like, OK, OK, this is
• 1:58:29
  dangerous. This is really dangerous.
• 1:58:32
  What do you mean? You don't have to be a
• 1:58:33
  Trinitarian to be a Christian. There has to be some limits
• 1:58:35
  here, right? So I left that Bible study, that
• 1:58:38
  Protestant Bible study, very worried and very anxious.
• 1:58:41
  I was like, what are the basis of Christianity and how can I
• 1:58:45
  know? And I thought to myself, why
• 1:58:48
  don't I just read what the early Christians did?
• 1:58:51
  That's what I did. I started reading Ignatius of
• 1:58:52
  Antioch, Clement of Rome, Augustine, Justin Martyr, you
• 1:58:57
  name it. And two things appeared #1 every
• 1:59:02
  single one of them believed Jesus was truly present in the
• 1:59:05
  Eucharist. And every single one of them
• 1:59:08
  called Mary pure ever version. Every single one.
• 1:59:12
  And when they were talking about pure, they were talking about
• 1:59:15
  sinlessness. So the argument wasn't, is Mary
• 1:59:18
  sinless? They were arguing about when was
• 1:59:22
  she sinless? Was that conception?
• 1:59:24
  Was it right before she was about to have baby Jesus in her
• 1:59:28
  womb? Was it a little bit before that?
• 1:59:31
  Like so they weren't arguing about if she was sinless.
• 1:59:33
  They were arguing about when she became sinless.
• 1:59:36
  And that's when I realized, oh, just because it doesn't make
• 1:59:41
  sense to me doesn't mean it's not true.
• 1:59:43
  Again, the whole lake doesn't matter if it's comfortable, it
• 1:59:45
  can still be true. And I realized that there was
• 1:59:48
  only two options. Whereas the Eastern churches are
• 1:59:50
  Catholicism and the Orthodox are going to hate this, but I just,
• 1:59:57
  I don't know, they were close enough.
• 1:59:58
  Like it was like, why be Orthodox when like everything
• 2:00:01
  the Orthodox have, the Catholics have and more like it was just
• 2:00:04
  like, like, I want to go to Eastern Church.
• 2:00:06
  I could do it. Like it's fine.
• 2:00:07
  Like, and I have extra stuff too now.
• 2:00:09
  Like so sorry guys, but I was just like, yeah, just be
• 2:00:13
  Catholic. So I went to confession and I
• 2:00:15
  was just like, yeah. So I went on like a four months
• 2:00:17
  journey after my baptism. Became Protestant, but now I'm
• 2:00:22
  back and he's like, you're forgiven.
• 2:00:23
  And I was like, what? That's it.
• 2:00:24
  You don't have to do anything. Like, I don't know, man.
• 2:00:27
  Like you're fine. Like you didn't know.
• 2:00:28
  No one taught you Catholics suck at this.
• 2:00:31
  Like you're forgiven. And I was like, all right,
• 2:00:32
  thanks, Father. And that was it.
• 2:00:34
  So then ever since then I've been a Catholic.
• 2:00:36
  So. But that was like late 2019,
• 2:00:39
  early 2020. And then I kind of stayed after
• 2:00:43
  that. There might be Protestants even
• 2:00:45
  listening who are like, oh, Ishmael, if you had just like
• 2:00:48
  gotten to know the real like Bible based evangelical
• 2:00:50
  Protestants and you, you know them, I love them.
• 2:00:55
  But they would maybe say like, hey, you, you, you don't need
• 2:00:57
  the Catholicism stuff. What would you say to them?
• 2:01:00
  I love Protestants, I think they're amazing.
• 2:01:02
  I do too. But it's just like it's they're
• 2:01:06
  not Protestant for the sake of being Protestant, I realize.
• 2:01:08
  Yes, they're Protestant because they love.
• 2:01:10
  They love Jesus very sincerely. But it's always like, we're just
• 2:01:14
  not this Catholic thing. You know what I mean?
• 2:01:16
  It's like, I always found out that they always juxtapose
• 2:01:21
  themselves to Catholicism. They're like, like, well, the
• 2:01:24
  Catholics believe this and we don't.
• 2:01:26
  The Catholics believe this and we don't.
• 2:01:27
  And I'm like, OK, Catholics don't exist.
• 2:01:30
  What do you believe? And it's like this to like,
• 2:01:32
  let's pretend Catholicism never happened.
• 2:01:34
  Yeah. How do you do church?
• 2:01:36
  How do you do life? How do you build out moral
• 2:01:37
  theology, exactly? Who's in charge?
• 2:01:40
  Who calls the shots? And it just, it wasn't what's
• 2:01:42
  the? Priesthood, what is communion?
• 2:01:45
  Yeah, it's a good, it's a good point.
• 2:01:47
  And it just wasn't consistent. And I was like, you're telling
• 2:01:50
  me God came down to earth as a man and built his church and he
• 2:01:56
  couldn't tell us if we should baptize babies or not.
• 2:02:00
  Like really? He got that, that that sounds
• 2:02:04
  pretty big to me. Like everything was a secondary
• 2:02:06
  issue. It's like, that's a secondary
• 2:02:08
  issue. I was like, OK, what about the
• 2:02:09
  Eucharist? That's secondary.
• 2:02:11
  And then like everything was a secondary issue.
• 2:02:13
  And I was like, so what's the first issue?
• 2:02:15
  What's the primary issue? And they're like, well, your
• 2:02:17
  heart posture to Jesus. And it's like, what does that
• 2:02:19
  even mean? Like even what I mean like I, I
• 2:02:21
  had my harsh posture on many different things, like the
• 2:02:24
  before my wife, I was with someone and I thought she was
• 2:02:28
  going to be my wife and I ended terribly.
• 2:02:29
  So my heart posture was wrong. Like and the Bible says the
• 2:02:32
  heart is deceitful above all things.
• 2:02:34
  So like what you can't just base it off of I feel and I think or
• 2:02:41
  this seems better to me. It's like, forget about what I
• 2:02:44
  think and all that Jesus says very specific things.
• 2:02:48
  You have to have faith yet to persevere to the end.
• 2:02:51
  Sorry, not faith alone. You have to eat his flesh, drink
• 2:02:54
  his blood. There's many different
• 2:02:56
  commandments. You have to be baptized.
• 2:02:58
  Baptism saves you be born again by water in the Spirit.
• 2:03:01
  So in most if not all Protestant churches, regardless of their
• 2:03:06
  lower high Protestant, don't believe you have to do all those
• 2:03:09
  things to be saved. And don't get me wrong, I'm not
• 2:03:12
  saying you have to work to do it, but all those things contain
• 2:03:16
  God's grace and you have to receive them if.
• 2:03:19
  You do have the knowledge. I mean, that's the, the, the
• 2:03:21
  crazy caveat, which is so amazing about our faith is that
• 2:03:25
  it is the power of Jesus Christ and we can receive the grace and
• 2:03:30
  choose to receive it, but the Spirit blows where it will.
• 2:03:33
  Exactly. So there is the sense of, yeah,
• 2:03:35
  God can work. This is what he's established
• 2:03:37
  the sacraments. This is is efficacious grace
• 2:03:39
  here to receive him and on our journey to heaven.
• 2:03:42
  But he can also do what he wants to do A. 100% so.
• 2:03:45
  Which is so, which is so I, I find it incredible, incredibly
• 2:03:50
  life giving and hopeful because you know, I remember being
• 2:03:53
  really anxious when I was, you know, kind of becoming born
• 2:03:56
  again myself. You know, I wasn't raised
• 2:03:58
  Catholic, I was raised kind of evangelical.
• 2:04:00
  And then I had this born again experience and then I became
• 2:04:02
  very anxious. I was like, well, if I don't
• 2:04:04
  preach to them the gospel, they're going to die and go to
• 2:04:06
  hell. And it was like, it just seemed
• 2:04:08
  very arbitrary. I mean, this kind of Calvinistic
• 2:04:10
  view of things like it's predestined, like I and so I
• 2:04:13
  have to do this thing and it, it we'll see what happens.
• 2:04:15
  But God's going to in the end, you know, it's one way or the
• 2:04:18
  the other. And there just seemed this like,
• 2:04:21
  you know, tremendous pressure of like, and we should have the
• 2:04:23
  pressure to to evangelize, of course, but it was more than
• 2:04:27
  pressure. It was it was an arbitrariness
• 2:04:29
  that didn't seem within the character of God that oh, you
• 2:04:32
  accidentally were born and raised in ignorance of the faith
• 2:04:35
  of the name of Jesus, and so you go to hell because of your
• 2:04:37
  ignorance. And that's given me a lot of
• 2:04:40
  freedom with my family. I don't have any anxiety at all
• 2:04:43
  about the afterlife because there's one judge and he's going
• 2:04:46
  to do it. And I feel like Catholicism has
• 2:04:48
  given me that grace to not worry about it because I think in
• 2:04:52
  utter denominations, it's like, am I saved?
• 2:04:55
  Am I not saved? Is he saved?
• 2:04:57
  Is he not saved? Does he really know Jesus?
• 2:05:00
  And in my, in my mind, it's like heaven and hell exists.
• 2:05:05
  God tells me to do these things and to believe in the Lord Jesus
• 2:05:08
  Christ. If I fall, I repent, I go to
• 2:05:12
  confession and I pray for my family and everyone else doesn't
• 2:05:16
  know Jesus and I preach their gospel and he will judge.
• 2:05:19
  Like it gives me a lot of peace. And I thought in Protestantism,
• 2:05:22
  it gave me a lot of anxiety because when a lot of
• 2:05:25
  Protestants, I should say the opposite, they go, don't you
• 2:05:27
  feel like you're working for your salvation?
• 2:05:29
  And I'm like, it feels like the opposite to me when I was
• 2:05:32
  practicing Protestantism because I was always so anxious about my
• 2:05:35
  family came to heaven and I was always so anxious about am I
• 2:05:39
  really saved? And I because there was never
• 2:05:41
  like, oh, OK, I believe in Jesus, but what if I mess up?
• 2:05:46
  What if I don't actually believe?
• 2:05:47
  What if I'm tricking myself? What am I ordained to not
• 2:05:50
  believe? Like there's so many different
• 2:05:52
  things and it's also them was just like the answer because it
• 2:05:58
  was like, it's not your job to be the judge.
• 2:06:01
  There's one judge and it's Jesus Christ and all you have to do is
• 2:06:04
  say Jesus, I trust in you and follow him and that's it.
• 2:06:09
  And he will do the rest. So I don't have a huge, I don't
• 2:06:12
  think I have any fear of the afterlife.
• 2:06:15
  And not like, oh, I'm like I'm going to heaven no matter what,
• 2:06:18
  but it's more like I just do whatever the Lord tells him to
• 2:06:21
  do and then I trust in him. How How have you seen other
• 2:06:25
  Muslims post conversion to Christianity?
• 2:06:28
  Because you, you know, there are increasingly Muslims I've also
• 2:06:34
  heard having dreams of Jesus. There's Muslims that are
• 2:06:37
  converting from Islam to Christianity.
• 2:06:40
  Have you talked to other ex Muslims?
• 2:06:42
  What is there? What do you what do you kind of
• 2:06:44
  see as a pattern of their experiences or is there a
• 2:06:46
  pattern to their experiences? I actually was talking to a
• 2:06:49
  Muslim woman the other day who, praise the Lord, she watched my
• 2:06:54
  stuff and then she just messaged me.
• 2:06:57
  She's in Morocco and she was telling me that she's now going
• 2:07:00
  to become a Christian and. Wow from senior content.
• 2:07:03
  Yeah. So that's.
• 2:07:04
  Where is she in Morocco? In Morocco, A.
• 2:07:06
  Muslim woman in. Morocco, yeah, I don't want more
• 2:07:08
  specific than that, but it's in that country and I was just
• 2:07:11
  like. Wow.
• 2:07:13
  I don't know how to react when I hear that.
• 2:07:15
  It's like, thank you. Because then they praise you
• 2:07:18
  like, oh, you did. You're so amazing.
• 2:07:20
  Like God leading you. I'm like, I just, I just talk
• 2:07:24
  like in my mind, I'm just like, this isn't like a lot of effort
• 2:07:27
  for me. I just kind of like, I like
• 2:07:29
  talk. I'm a talker.
• 2:07:30
  So I like talking. I like going around and doing
• 2:07:32
  stuff and it's, it's helping people.
• 2:07:35
  Like I'm helping people just by talking.
• 2:07:37
  Does she have Christians she can connect with in Morocco to help
• 2:07:40
  her? We, we hooked her up and I work
• 2:07:42
  with it's a non denominational group.
• 2:07:44
  And again, Catholics, you got to start doing this because the
• 2:07:47
  only people that are preaching to Muslims in the Muslim world
• 2:07:50
  are Protestants. So I, I work with Protestant
• 2:07:53
  groups and I have no problem work with with them.
• 2:07:55
  They do amazing work and they are getting in contact with her
• 2:07:58
  right now. We had someone else in Libya and
• 2:08:02
  please pray for them. They we lost contact with him,
• 2:08:05
  but he converted two years ago and there was a video that was
• 2:08:12
  released of him and talking about his conversion and after
• 2:08:16
  that we lost contact with him. But we still have missionaries
• 2:08:18
  in Libya looking for him, so. It was you're saying he he
• 2:08:22
  published, publicized that he was converting from Islam to
• 2:08:26
  Christianity in Libya and you're worried?
• 2:08:28
  About someone, someone filmed him and told and filmed him at
• 2:08:33
  like gunpoint saying like are you Christian?
• 2:08:35
  And he said yes, and I had to confess.
• 2:08:38
  And I think that's what happened.
• 2:08:39
  So it went to the government and then now he's in hiding.
• 2:08:42
  I don't think he's did. They caught him.
• 2:08:43
  I think we just don't know where he's in hiding in Libya.
• 2:08:46
  So there's these things are still happening and there's
• 2:08:48
  still missionary works that are happening there.
• 2:08:50
  Why? What happens if you convert to
• 2:08:52
  Christianity from Islam in Libya?
• 2:08:55
  Right, Libya. Literally has a government.
• 2:08:57
  So the government's not, it's like not doing much, but there's
• 2:09:01
  a lot of groups that would kill you in Libya, like a lot of
• 2:09:03
  groups like. So it's I'm really praying he's
• 2:09:08
  he found a way to get out and the missionaries are looking for
• 2:09:11
  no one at this point that would be better than they're looking
• 2:09:14
  for him in Libya. What's your take on the
• 2:09:16
  persecution of Christians throughout parts of Africa and
• 2:09:19
  the Middle East and Asia? So again, you have to understand
• 2:09:24
  that if the if the Christians are a majority and the Muslims
• 2:09:27
  are a minority, then the Christians are OK.
• 2:09:31
  But once the Muslims get to a significant percentage, the
• 2:09:34
  Christians are not OK. So we sit in Nigeria right now.
• 2:09:38
  Nigeria is almost like a 5050 Muslim Christian.
• 2:09:41
  And the Muslims are just getting bigger and bigger.
• 2:09:44
  Like population wise, they're growing.
• 2:09:46
  And every time the Muslims grow and the Christians shrink,
• 2:09:50
  there's more and more of a chance of genocide happening
• 2:09:53
  with the Christians as. And I'm really worried actually
• 2:09:56
  about Lebanon right now because Lebanon used to be a majority
• 2:09:59
  Christian country. Then they had a civil war and
• 2:10:02
  all the Christian Lebanese people left for the West.
• 2:10:06
  So where I'm from, there's a cute Lebanese community.
• 2:10:09
  But what that happens now is that there are still Christians
• 2:10:12
  in Lebanon that are staying there and they're safe for now.
• 2:10:16
  But the Muslim population went from 40% to 60%.
• 2:10:22
  So it's just a matter of time really.
• 2:10:24
  Like the the Christians in in Lebanon are just waiting
• 2:10:27
  basically for the Muslims that either attacks them or to
• 2:10:31
  slaughter them. And that's what happens.
• 2:10:34
  And I pray that it changes and I pray that conversions happen.
• 2:10:41
  Conversions do happen in the Muslim world, but we don't fight
• 2:10:45
  against flesh and blood. There's spiritual principalities
• 2:10:47
  that are fighting against us and that's why the Christian in
• 2:10:51
  Egypt, while they're in peace right now with the government,
• 2:10:55
  if there's a new government tomorrow, then they can easily
• 2:10:58
  be killed. Like you're never safe.
• 2:11:01
  You're only safe because I just don't want to kill you today.
• 2:11:05
  That's why you're safe. So there's always a threat of
• 2:11:08
  you dying. And that's why a lot of
• 2:11:12
  Christians actually here in Southern California, Coptics
• 2:11:14
  have moved here because they. Fled.
• 2:11:17
  Yeah, because even if they're technically safe right now in
• 2:11:19
  Egypt, they might not be tomorrow.
• 2:11:21
  So they don't want to live in fear all their life.
• 2:11:23
  So and I'm only the ones who have money to leave.
• 2:11:26
  Most Christians are very poor in Egypt, very poor, and they can
• 2:11:29
  never leave. So I pray for those people
• 2:11:32
  specifically. What do you feel God is calling
• 2:11:36
  you to do? You're married now, met your
• 2:11:38
  beautiful wife. You're creating content talking
• 2:11:40
  about your conversion. What do you believe God's
• 2:11:43
  calling you to? I believe that I I don't know
• 2:11:49
  why God has put me in this position.
• 2:11:51
  I sometimes like I'll be sitting there at night to stare at the
• 2:11:54
  ceiling and I'm like, I'll, I'll tell my wife I'm like, why me?
• 2:11:58
  Like what? Like you could have picked
• 2:12:00
  anyone else. You could have picked any other
• 2:12:02
  born Muslim to immigrant family in the West to do this to become
• 2:12:06
  Christian. Like sometimes I always like,
• 2:12:09
  could it have been better if I just lived in ignorance and just
• 2:12:13
  somehow like got to heaven through ignorance?
• 2:12:15
  Or maybe wouldn't have been better if like someone asked me,
• 2:12:19
  this one's actually after a party and it was a couple years
• 2:12:21
  after my conversion and they were driving me home and he was
• 2:12:23
  like, why did you leave Islam? Like if you knew it was so
• 2:12:27
  dangerous, Like, wouldn't you rather just like stayed a secret
• 2:12:30
  Christian? And maybe I'm an idiot.
• 2:12:34
  Maybe I'm I'm the one who is lacking IQ points.
• 2:12:38
  But something about me is that if something is true and I know
• 2:12:43
  it's true, I can't hide it. And I think God knows that about
• 2:12:47
  me. And he's like Ishmael cannot
• 2:12:51
  stop talking and he needs to tell people about Jesus.
• 2:12:56
  If Ishmael was a Christian man, he would be a good Christian.
• 2:12:58
  So God was like, we gotta make Ishmael Christian because he
• 2:13:01
  will not shut up about Jesus. Like we got a lot there's.
• 2:13:05
  A lot of Muslims who need to hear what you have to say and
• 2:13:07
  not Muslims too, but Muslims need to hear it because you knew
• 2:13:10
  Islam, you studied Islam, you were raised in Egypt, you're
• 2:13:13
  raised by a devout Muslim father.
• 2:13:16
  You know the Quran, you know, you can read it in Arabic.
• 2:13:18
  You you know all of this. Yeah, and it's just like, I
• 2:13:24
  don't know. I question about what am I
• 2:13:25
  doing, why am I doing this and how far is it going to go?
• 2:13:29
  And I don't know, I have no idea what God wants me to do
• 2:13:33
  tomorrow. Do you ever worry for your life?
• 2:13:35
  Do you get death threats or do you think there's a threat to
• 2:13:37
  your life because you're such a public ex Muslim?
• 2:13:40
  To live with Christ and to die his game.
• 2:13:42
  What if they kill me? I go to heaven and it proves to
• 2:13:46
  Islam wrong. Have you received threats?
• 2:13:47
  Oh yeah, but. Again from Muslims.
• 2:13:50
  Yeah, from Muslims. Who say we're going to kill you
• 2:13:52
  because you're an infidel now? You're worse than an infidel,
• 2:13:54
  actually, right? You're an apostate.
• 2:13:56
  Yeah, I have. And it's like in my mind, it's
• 2:13:59
  like, well, if they kill me, then they proved that Islam is
• 2:14:02
  not from God because their God is so weak that he has to use
• 2:14:06
  human beings to kill people. But if I keep talking, it will
• 2:14:09
  prove Islam's not from God, because I will tell you by
• 2:14:12
  talking to you that Islam's not from God.
• 2:14:14
  So you're going to keep sharing the gospel?
• 2:14:17
  Yes, 100% and like I'm actually writing a book right now about.
• 2:14:22
  Amazing. It's about my life story, but
• 2:14:24
  I'm also writing about how Islam and western society can't
• 2:14:28
  interact with each other and it's originally it was about
• 2:14:32
  Christianity with an Islam. But the more I write, I'm not
• 2:14:37
  good at many things in life. I'm good at two things, talking
• 2:14:39
  and writing I guess. And the more I write, the more
• 2:14:43
  stuff is impacted on it. Dude my my writing producer
• 2:14:46
  person is going to hate me. It's a long book.
• 2:14:48
  Yeah, it's not as long. It's like all over the place.
• 2:14:51
  Christianity built the West. Exactly.
• 2:14:54
  So it's not just about Christianity versus Islam, it's
• 2:14:58
  about the whole identity and psychology of our society versus
• 2:15:03
  the Islamic Society. And like I said in like earlier,
• 2:15:07
  from the smallest thing, the bacon and the and the beer to
• 2:15:11
  the largest thing, the freedom of speech and the freedom of
• 2:15:13
  practicing your religion, everything is contrast.
• 2:15:16
  Everything is the opposite. And that's what the book's going
• 2:15:20
  to be about. I look forward to reading it.
• 2:15:23
  It's a really prophetic book for a time like today.
• 2:15:26
  I hope it does something in the society.
• 2:15:29
  It will. It definitely will.
• 2:15:31
  Ishmael, thank you. Thank you so much for joining
• 2:15:33
  the podcast. Thank you so much for.
• 2:15:35
  Having me, yeah. And Congrats on your marriage,
• 2:15:37
  too. Thank.
• 2:15:38
  You so much that's. Only a few months in, right?
• 2:15:41
  Two months. Yep.
• 2:15:42
  So still getting used to it. It's very odd waking up and
• 2:15:46
  someones there. It's the best.
• 2:15:48
  Yeah, it's the best, but also like, Oh my goodness, someone
• 2:15:51
  else. Yeah, but glory, Jesus Christ
• 2:15:54
  and yeah, God has been good. Amen, Amen.
• 2:15:57
  Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Lila Rose
• 2:15:59
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• 2:16:00
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• 2:16:06
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