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An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic · The Ben Ferguson Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: A week ago, Verdict came to you from my living
0:03
Speaker 1: room while I was self quarantined in Texas and Michael
0:06
Speaker 1: was skipping in scott Free in California. Today the tables
0:10
Speaker 1: are turned. Now Michael and the entire state of California
0:15
Speaker 1: are on lockdown. He's in effective quarantine with the rest
0:19
Speaker 1: of the Golden State. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles,
0:33
Speaker 1: coming to you from lockdown. As now, even since the
0:36
Speaker 1: last time we spoke, the seventh and eleventh largest economies
0:40
Speaker 1: in the world have gone on lockdown California and New York. Now, Senator,
0:45
Speaker 1: thank you very much for doing that cold open, because
0:49
Speaker 1: not only are you doing my job on the cold open,
0:52
Speaker 1: you're also doing the job of the booking producer. You
0:55
Speaker 1: have brought along one of your friends, Senator Barrasso from Wyoming,
1:00
Speaker 1: who has expertise not only as a senator but also
1:04
Speaker 1: as a physician to help us try to understand this pandemic. Well, John, welcome.
1:09
Speaker 1: John Barrasso's Senator from Wyoming, but he's also doctor Barrasso,
1:12
Speaker 1: and so he is wearing not only as Senator had
1:16
Speaker 1: as the number three Republican and leadership at head of
1:19
Speaker 1: the Republican Conference. But also someone has been a medical
1:22
Speaker 1: doctor for many decades now, and so welcome John. Glad
1:26
Speaker 1: to have you. Great to be here. And I'll tell
1:28
Speaker 1: you this is such a popular show, certainly in Wyoming
1:32
Speaker 1: Verdict people turned it on every night during impeachment and well,
1:35
Speaker 1: but remember four years ago you were the choice of
1:39
Speaker 1: Wyoming and we were big Trump territory. Now, but I'll
1:42
Speaker 1: tell you you were the pick of the people of
1:44
Speaker 1: Wyoming who went to the Republican Convention in twenty sixteen. Well, John,
1:48
Speaker 1: thank you. I will say you're the second Senator to
1:50
Speaker 1: join us on this podcast. The first was Lindsay. And
1:54
Speaker 1: Lindsay and his typical understatement, walked in and said, what
1:57
Speaker 1: in the hell is a podcast language? I think I'll
2:03
Speaker 1: also point out he looked at these gigantic microphones, He
2:07
Speaker 1: looked at this shag carpet out of the nineteen seventies,
2:11
Speaker 1: and he said, if you guys are the number one
2:14
Speaker 1: podcast in the world, who the hell is number two?
2:19
Speaker 1: Some guy in a park outside of that. That's so
2:24
Speaker 1: you've got a high bar to reach, because said Lindsay's
2:27
Speaker 1: blazed the trail. Well, he is must see TV. He's
2:30
Speaker 1: a high wire act and people are always waiting to
2:32
Speaker 1: see which side of the wire he's going to fall
2:34
Speaker 1: off of. But he's amazing. Well, Senator Brussel, I'm so
2:37
Speaker 1: glad you could join us today because I know that
2:39
Speaker 1: typically senators are able to go home for the weekends.
2:43
Speaker 1: It looks like that will not be happening now. There
2:45
Speaker 1: are multiple bills that have been voted on. We're waiting
2:48
Speaker 1: on the next bill to come forward. I was wondering
2:51
Speaker 1: if maybe we could talk as Senator Cruz, as you mentioned,
2:54
Speaker 1: from your viewpoint as a physician, so much of this
2:58
Speaker 1: is focused on getting more respirators produced, getting them out
3:01
Speaker 1: to hospitals. Just from the medical perspective, where do we
3:04
Speaker 1: stand right now? Well, I'm happy to talk about all
3:07
Speaker 1: of those things, because you're right. I go home every
3:09
Speaker 1: weekend to Wyoming. Was home last weekend, talked to a
3:11
Speaker 1: number of folks who were physicians, as I continue to
3:14
Speaker 1: do now by phone, but was there in a number
3:16
Speaker 1: of events around the state of Wyoming last weekend. And
3:19
Speaker 1: we have changed dramatically as America's economy in America as
3:22
Speaker 1: essentially shut down, as has the world. And when you
3:26
Speaker 1: think about last weekend, we went from a day in
3:29
Speaker 1: Las Vegas where the one day they were going to
3:31
Speaker 1: close down the buffets to two days later they closed
3:34
Speaker 1: down the entire town. So this is moving very quickly,
3:37
Speaker 1: and so it is as well medically talking to folks
3:40
Speaker 1: at home, I talked to the hospital administrators, do you
3:43
Speaker 1: have enough respirators? Well, they have eighteen. Now I've practiced
3:46
Speaker 1: medicine there since nineteen eighty three, so thirty seven years.
3:50
Speaker 1: They've never used all of them at the same time.
3:52
Speaker 1: So by any stretch of the imagination, we have more
3:56
Speaker 1: than we need at our hospitals and around the state
3:59
Speaker 1: of Woming. But if this pandemic goes full blown, as
4:03
Speaker 1: we're concerned about and what we're seeing in other places
4:06
Speaker 1: around the world, there may not be enough. But to
4:09
Speaker 1: just put it into perspective, and Ted and I were
4:11
Speaker 1: talking about this at lunch. If you take a look
4:14
Speaker 1: at England, the whole country, fifty or sixty million people,
4:18
Speaker 1: they have five thousand of these ventilators. The machines that
4:22
Speaker 1: you're breathing, machines that you can hook people up to.
4:26
Speaker 1: We have one hundred and sixty thousand, So for everyone
4:29
Speaker 1: they have. In England we have thirty two, but we
4:32
Speaker 1: only have about five to six times the population that
4:35
Speaker 1: they have. So we are the most prepared country in
4:38
Speaker 1: the world to deal with this. Do we have enough?
4:41
Speaker 1: I hope so, but we may not. But if we don't,
4:44
Speaker 1: no one does. And that's the concern, and that's why
4:47
Speaker 1: we're working so much with social isolation and separation and
4:50
Speaker 1: keeping people distance, trying to do the proper things with hygiene,
4:54
Speaker 1: all in an effort to prevent more rapid spread and
4:57
Speaker 1: a prevention of the on going concern that we have
5:01
Speaker 1: about the capacity, not just with respirators, but what I
5:04
Speaker 1: hear when I talk to folks at home is are
5:06
Speaker 1: there enough tests? Can we get people tested who have symptoms?
5:09
Speaker 1: And then are there enough personal protective equipment available? So, John,
5:13
Speaker 1: let's let's unpack this a little bit. And you and
5:15
Speaker 1: I were discussing this over lunch. So the ventilators are
5:19
Speaker 1: these big machines for those of us without m d s,
5:22
Speaker 1: the big machines that breathe for you if you're you're
5:26
Speaker 1: either in surgery or you've got severe respiratory problems in
5:31
Speaker 1: an intensive career. In intensive care, and so the challenge
5:37
Speaker 1: is that you look at some of these countries, and
5:39
Speaker 1: I think Italy has seen it the worst, where we're
5:41
Speaker 1: reading stories out of Italy where they've run out of
5:44
Speaker 1: ventilators and they're sitting there with multiple patience in respiratory
5:49
Speaker 1: failure and they're having to make triage decisions of this
5:52
Speaker 1: person gets a ventilator, we're going to save this person's life,
5:56
Speaker 1: and this person we're not going to save this person's life.
5:59
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if it actually is going to
6:01
Speaker 1: work to save that person's life, because on average, some
6:04
Speaker 1: of these people are on these machines for ten to
6:07
Speaker 1: fourteen days, and at what point do you know, You
6:10
Speaker 1: know they've been there a week and you don't know
6:12
Speaker 1: which which way it's going to turn. So one of
6:14
Speaker 1: these machines gets tied up a long time with a
6:16
Speaker 1: patient who is on the machine. Which is why they're
6:19
Speaker 1: working so hard with medicines that are already available worldwide
6:24
Speaker 1: that may help shorten the amount of time that somebody
6:27
Speaker 1: would need to be on the machine. The President talked
6:29
Speaker 1: about that with a malaria medicine, there's an HIV AIDS medicine.
6:32
Speaker 1: Things that we think may be helpful also hepatitis medicine.
6:37
Speaker 1: You were chief of staff at a hospital in Casper, Wyoming.
6:41
Speaker 1: You said they had eighteen ventilators, and your whole time
6:44
Speaker 1: there you never used all eighteen. Yes, what happens if
6:50
Speaker 1: at that hospital one hundred people show up with coronavirus
6:54
Speaker 1: and with severe symptoms. What happens then? And next thing
6:58
Speaker 1: you do after those eighteen is the machines that you
7:00
Speaker 1: can use in an operating room for anesthesia if you
7:03
Speaker 1: put somebody to sleep. But that takes additional manpower, personnel
7:07
Speaker 1: that know how to use them. Anesthesiologists know how to
7:10
Speaker 1: use them as they do during a surgery. But that's
7:12
Speaker 1: not fourteen days. So you'd have to have huge amount
7:16
Speaker 1: of resources, people and personal protective equipment to keep those
7:21
Speaker 1: people safe while taking care of the folks with coronavirus.
7:26
Speaker 1: And that's the big concern is that we may overwhelm
7:28
Speaker 1: and tire out the staff as well. They're already working
7:31
Speaker 1: significant overtime hours and if any of them get the
7:35
Speaker 1: disease and some of them are, then they're taken out
7:38
Speaker 1: of the fight. Well, I know, Senator Cruz, you made
7:42
Speaker 1: a point of writing a letter about this. In terms
7:45
Speaker 1: of getting these machines. Obviously, as Senator Bross says, we're
7:49
Speaker 1: in a much better position than other countries, but we
7:51
Speaker 1: could use more. You have suggested that the administration invoked
7:55
Speaker 1: the Defense Production Act. This is a law from nineteen
7:59
Speaker 1: fifty that would turn our manufacturing capacity toward government ends,
8:06
Speaker 1: especially in times of war, times of a pandemic. You
8:09
Speaker 1: requested that the administration invoked this, and it looks like
8:11
Speaker 1: today they have. Well, that's right, and so I wrote
8:16
Speaker 1: a letter this morning to the Secretary of Health and
8:18
Speaker 1: Human Services Alexasar and I urged him to use the
8:21
Speaker 1: delegated authority from the President to direct the building of
8:27
Speaker 1: critical medical equipment and in particular, ventilators. I don't want
8:30
Speaker 1: to see us in a situation like horrifically they're seeing
8:33
Speaker 1: in Italy. I don't want to see doctors having to
8:35
Speaker 1: make a choice of who gets to live and who
8:38
Speaker 1: has to die because they don't have the equipment to
8:41
Speaker 1: save their lives. And you can't build a ventilator overnight.
8:44
Speaker 1: And if we wake up two weeks from now and
8:48
Speaker 1: instead of eleven thousand cases, we've got two hundred thousand
8:53
Speaker 1: cases or a million cases, it might be too late then,
8:58
Speaker 1: And so I believe that that that the President of
9:00
Speaker 1: the administration ought to direct the manufacture of these ventilators
9:05
Speaker 1: and end masks and other equipment that is needed. We
9:08
Speaker 1: ought to be directing it right now so that we
9:11
Speaker 1: can meet this crisis. This is everyone recognizes this as
9:17
Speaker 1: a public health threat. We need to do everything on
9:21
Speaker 1: the front end to make sure we're not forced into
9:24
Speaker 1: an impossible situations. On the back end, and military opportunities
9:30
Speaker 1: to use the equipment there as well, and the VA
9:31
Speaker 1: hospitals and other sources. So there's there's some additional capacity,
9:35
Speaker 1: but it can still get stretched to the limit. And listen,
9:38
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have to have the hospital in Wyoming
9:43
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily need to go from eighteen ventilators to a hundred,
9:47
Speaker 1: But there needs to be a central repository where ventilators
9:51
Speaker 1: are being constructed where you can surge that if there's
9:54
Speaker 1: an outbreak in a region and ventilators are needed, that
9:58
Speaker 1: you can get them there, and you can get them
10:00
Speaker 1: there in real time where the need is. You know,
10:05
Speaker 1: some conservatives have asked about this, They say, is this
10:08
Speaker 1: a government overreach? Is the invocation of for instance, the
10:12
Speaker 1: Defense Production Act as something that is unprecedented, but it
10:17
Speaker 1: is worth noting this law has been invoked many, many
10:20
Speaker 1: times over the year, as it was invoked during the
10:22
Speaker 1: Obama administration. So while there might be concerns about how
10:26
Speaker 1: the government is handling this on this particular front, it
10:28
Speaker 1: seems sort of like a no brainer. Well, and it's
10:31
Speaker 1: also how America has overcome virtually every major challenge we've
10:36
Speaker 1: seen is the incredible economic might of the American free
10:39
Speaker 1: enterprise system. I mean, it's how we won World War Two,
10:42
Speaker 1: as we directed. Remember, World War two for us started
10:46
Speaker 1: with Pearl Harbor. Started it with a kamikaze attack, a
10:49
Speaker 1: surprise attack that took out a vast percentage of our
10:55
Speaker 1: naval fleet, and we leaned in and rebuilt. And it
10:59
Speaker 1: was the power hour of this economy that enabled us
11:02
Speaker 1: to win World War Two. We can mobilize that same
11:08
Speaker 1: economic power to make sure you know, it was a
11:12
Speaker 1: striking thing. John. I don't know if you watched any
11:14
Speaker 1: of the debate between Bernie and Joe Biden. Yes it
11:19
Speaker 1: was painful, but I did. I only endured about thirty
11:21
Speaker 1: minutes of it. There really was just sort of there
11:24
Speaker 1: were no sports on Sunday night, you know, the NBA
11:26
Speaker 1: was shut down. So, but it was very interesting when
11:31
Speaker 1: Bernie was pointing to this crisis as justification for socialized
11:36
Speaker 1: medicine and what he calls Medicare for All. I thought
11:40
Speaker 1: it was striking that Biden jumped in and said, well,
11:43
Speaker 1: you know, Bernie, Italy has socialized medicine and we're seeing
11:47
Speaker 1: that it isn't working there. I mean that in a
11:50
Speaker 1: Democratic primary, was this sort of startling moment of sanity
11:54
Speaker 1: that stood out for how different it was from almost
11:58
Speaker 1: everything else in the primary, and even Washington Post, not
12:02
Speaker 1: known for being a conservative voice, have the challenges of
12:06
Speaker 1: coronavirus to countries with socialized medicine, and the statistics that
12:11
Speaker 1: I just gave you about respirators and ventilators, Michael, the
12:15
Speaker 1: breathing machines that caused fifty thousand dollars a piece. That's
12:18
Speaker 1: where all the statistics come to as to how few
12:20
Speaker 1: they have other places compared to the United States, and why,
12:23
Speaker 1: according to JOHNS. Hopkins, University of the United States is
12:26
Speaker 1: the most prepared country in the world to deal with
12:29
Speaker 1: this threat. That were you describe the US versus England,
12:33
Speaker 1: and you said, we're much better prepared than England. They
12:35
Speaker 1: have socialized medicine in England. Yes, How does the US
12:39
Speaker 1: and England how do they compared to Italy? Well, both
12:42
Speaker 1: are better than what's happening in Italy. Now. The virus,
12:45
Speaker 1: it's it's unusual with this virus. They're seeing that it
12:48
Speaker 1: seems to be affecting old not just older people, older
12:50
Speaker 1: people who are smokers. And there's a question of has
12:53
Speaker 1: the virus changed and mutated a bit in ways that
12:56
Speaker 1: it's striking people differently. You know, you look at China,
12:59
Speaker 1: they're kind of over the hump. It looks like in
13:01
Speaker 1: terms of new cases if you believe them. I don't
13:03
Speaker 1: believe them. And at the same time, you're seeing significant
13:08
Speaker 1: increases in France, a big jump in deaths the other day.
13:10
Speaker 1: So is it actually getting worse in Europe as it's
13:13
Speaker 1: getting better in China? You know, Michael John and I
13:15
Speaker 1: are both members of two informal caucuses I would call
13:19
Speaker 1: them in the Senate. One is the boot Caucus, and
13:23
Speaker 1: they're probably twenty twenty five senators that wear cowboy boots,
13:27
Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats. And I've joked that if you're wearing boots,
13:31
Speaker 1: you can't be all bad. Sometimes our colleagues test that proposition.
13:36
Speaker 1: And then secondly, we are both among the senators of
13:41
Speaker 1: Italian American heritage, so as we look at what's happening
13:44
Speaker 1: in Italy, John's ancestors and my and my own trace
13:49
Speaker 1: their lineage there. I'm sorry, I have to say I'm
13:52
Speaker 1: not in the boot caucus, but I am in the
13:54
Speaker 1: Italian caucus. And of course that with a name like Cruz,
13:58
Speaker 1: I wasn't so sure about the Italian, but I'm certainly Cuban,
14:02
Speaker 1: Irish and just a little bit of Italian. That is
14:05
Speaker 1: excellent moment. Men are happy to have him. But I'm
14:10
Speaker 1: sorry I cut you off as you were saying, no,
14:12
Speaker 1: I remember we uh, it's Ted's right, and we talk
14:16
Speaker 1: about socialized medicine and they're always stretched to the limits,
14:21
Speaker 1: so they really cannot handle the sort of things that
14:23
Speaker 1: are happening here. Globally, the stretch is even greater, and
14:28
Speaker 1: it's certainly this time of year. British hospitals are always
14:32
Speaker 1: overloaded at this time of year and they have to
14:34
Speaker 1: cancel elective cases, and we are now in the United
14:37
Speaker 1: States canceling elective cases just to make sure the capacity
14:41
Speaker 1: is there, and a lot of it has to do
14:42
Speaker 1: with these personal protective equipment that folks need, in terms
14:47
Speaker 1: of the masks, in terms of the the sterile gowns,
14:50
Speaker 1: the gloves, all of those things, because if there if
14:54
Speaker 1: there's not enough of them, then they shouldn't be using
14:56
Speaker 1: them for elective procedures. Well, Senators, I would be interested
14:59
Speaker 1: in Senator Brussel your medical perspective and then Senator Cruising
15:03
Speaker 1: your political perspective as well on what the state lockdowns mean.
15:08
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people have written in and
15:10
Speaker 1: they understand that we have a federal system and so
15:13
Speaker 1: the states can do things that the federal government cannot do.
15:16
Speaker 1: But as a conservative, and as someone with absolutely no
15:20
Speaker 1: medical expertise whatsoever, how should I be looking at the
15:24
Speaker 1: state lockdowns? Are they a good thing? Are they conservative?
15:26
Speaker 1: Are they medically necessary? Well? I'm a states rights guy.
15:30
Speaker 1: I mean that's how I was in the Wyoming State legislature.
15:32
Speaker 1: I am still that way now. And it's the governor
15:35
Speaker 1: of our state that's making decisions. In many states, the
15:40
Speaker 1: governor can't even close down the schools in our state.
15:42
Speaker 1: It's a local decision by various school boards. Local control,
15:46
Speaker 1: local decisions. So I think it's better to have things
15:49
Speaker 1: done that way. Education is so much a part of this.
15:53
Speaker 1: But the more we can do to have people washing
15:56
Speaker 1: more frequently, staying in terms of the from each other,
16:00
Speaker 1: the distancing all of those things, I think is the
16:03
Speaker 1: better chance to take care of the first crisis, which
16:05
Speaker 1: is the medical crisis that we have, and then deal
16:08
Speaker 1: with the economic crisis that we also have. We just
16:11
Speaker 1: alluded a bit to the economic crisis and this strong
16:14
Speaker 1: and robust economy that we started from and having to
16:17
Speaker 1: get that all restored again. To get to that point,
16:22
Speaker 1: we have to get the medical crisis behind us, and
16:24
Speaker 1: the best way to do it is the social distancing,
16:27
Speaker 1: the proper hygiene, and all of the things that we
16:29
Speaker 1: can do to stop the spread of the disease. John,
16:32
Speaker 1: let me ask you, as you know yesterday Gavin Newsom,
16:35
Speaker 1: governor California, said that over half of the people in California,
16:40
Speaker 1: over twenty five million people could become infected with this virus.
16:45
Speaker 1: As a doctor, does that sound credible to you? I
16:49
Speaker 1: hear a lot of people that are not sure the
16:54
Speaker 1: magnitude of the threat. What's your assessment from medical and
16:58
Speaker 1: Angla Merklos said Injury Germany, maybe sixty to seventy percent
17:01
Speaker 1: of the population there, you know, if this continues to spread,
17:06
Speaker 1: and I think there's a difference between having the disease
17:08
Speaker 1: and testing positive or having the virus. So I think
17:12
Speaker 1: there are some people that may become infected and not
17:16
Speaker 1: even show symptoms or show signs of it. We're seeing
17:19
Speaker 1: it with the younger people with the you know, the
17:21
Speaker 1: children that may be carriers of the disease that they
17:23
Speaker 1: would test positive. Then you worry about them near grandmam
17:26
Speaker 1: or grampap so they could have the virus in the
17:29
Speaker 1: system and they can but not really be effective by
17:32
Speaker 1: We're not exactly sure why that is. And when I
17:35
Speaker 1: talked about the possibility of a virus mutation and changes
17:39
Speaker 1: now they're seeing in Europe sometimes forty five or fifty
17:43
Speaker 1: percent of the people hospitalized are under the age of
17:45
Speaker 1: fifty five. I mean, we kind of thought of it
17:47
Speaker 1: as an old person's disease, and in terms of those dying,
17:50
Speaker 1: it does seem to be that older group, but some
17:53
Speaker 1: of the people on respirators are now in a somewhat
17:55
Speaker 1: younger group as well. Now, are they mostly people who
17:58
Speaker 1: have asthma or other significant respiratory illnesses or what I
18:03
Speaker 1: think they're still trying to figure that went out. Because
18:06
Speaker 1: the medical systems in Italy and France are overwhelmed, they're
18:10
Speaker 1: not that able at this point to kind of come
18:13
Speaker 1: back with good research numbers until their fatality rates go
18:16
Speaker 1: go up. Probably when when the medical systems overwhelmed, you
18:19
Speaker 1: see you see four or five six percent fatality instead
18:23
Speaker 1: of one or two, which is what they expected it
18:25
Speaker 1: to be. The flu, which I think this year in
18:28
Speaker 1: the United States is going to kill about thirty six
18:30
Speaker 1: thousand Americans. That's one tenth of one percent. Doctor Fauci said.
18:35
Speaker 1: You know, if we get everything and do it right here,
18:37
Speaker 1: it would be ten times that. But you're right, across
18:40
Speaker 1: the world, we're seeing numbers much higher than that. Well,
18:43
Speaker 1: Senator Brosso, to your point, there may be many people
18:46
Speaker 1: who have the virus or who are not showing symptoms,
18:50
Speaker 1: or certainly who have not tested positive. Is there any
18:53
Speaker 1: way that that testing will become so widely available that
18:56
Speaker 1: we'll be able to figure out what the denominator is
18:59
Speaker 1: because we're not going to get a very good sense
19:01
Speaker 1: of the fatality rate if we don't know how many
19:04
Speaker 1: people have it in the first place. Well, that's exactly right.
19:07
Speaker 1: And Ted and I were to lunch with the President
19:09
Speaker 1: last week and Tony Fauci and others, and when they said, well,
19:13
Speaker 1: we're going to have more and more tests available, I said, well,
19:15
Speaker 1: then you're going to have a lot more positives just
19:17
Speaker 1: because they're already positive, they just don't know it. And
19:20
Speaker 1: we're now at that phase where I think we're over
19:22
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand positive tests in the United States. Over two
19:25
Speaker 1: hundred have died. But if you could get to the
19:27
Speaker 1: point where more and more people are tested, we may
19:31
Speaker 1: know that denominator as well as a numerator, and I
19:33
Speaker 1: think it would be more helpful to see. Well, I
19:36
Speaker 1: know that both of you are going to be in
19:37
Speaker 1: town to vote on this next part of relief for coronavirus. Already,
19:41
Speaker 1: we've seen some announcements from the White House today, closing
19:44
Speaker 1: the border with Mexico, closing the border with Canada, putting
19:47
Speaker 1: off student loan payments for sixty days. I mean, there
19:50
Speaker 1: have been a number of provisions that have already come out.
19:53
Speaker 1: What can we look forward to, as you guys quarantined
19:56
Speaker 1: in Washington to see voted on over the next few days,
20:00
Speaker 1: and how will it help? So I think we'll probably
20:03
Speaker 1: vote on Monday. Right now, where we are is that
20:07
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell has has filed a bill, and right now
20:11
Speaker 1: there is active negotiation with the Democrats. I don't know
20:15
Speaker 1: what's going to come out of that negotiation. As I
20:19
Speaker 1: look at the bill, I think it is important that
20:21
Speaker 1: we see strong action from Washington to provide economic relief.
20:26
Speaker 1: I'm very concerned that we are going to see in
20:29
Speaker 1: coming weeks millions and millions of job losses. Yesterday I
20:33
Speaker 1: predicted over a million job losses. That the numbers I'm
20:37
Speaker 1: saying now are even two and three million coming up
20:40
Speaker 1: in just a week or two. I mean, it's it's
20:42
Speaker 1: there are a lot of layoffs, there are a lot
20:44
Speaker 1: of people hurting. There are a lot of small businesses.
20:45
Speaker 1: There are a lot of restaurants and bars and hotels
20:49
Speaker 1: that are that are just really hurting. The bill right
20:53
Speaker 1: now that that has been introduced, has really two important
20:56
Speaker 1: components to it. One is the individual leaf, and that's
21:00
Speaker 1: basically sending a twelve hundred dollar check to just about everybody,
21:05
Speaker 1: just about everybody who makes less than ninety nine thousand
21:09
Speaker 1: dollars a year. That's individual relief, just to provide a
21:13
Speaker 1: check and some help. The second component is focused on
21:18
Speaker 1: loans for all of the small businesses, for all of
21:21
Speaker 1: the big businesses that are you know, the airlines are
21:23
Speaker 1: losing billions. It's focused on loans to help those businesses
21:28
Speaker 1: survive so people have a job to come back to,
21:30
Speaker 1: so that that you know, when you're if you're a waiter,
21:32
Speaker 1: you work at a restaurant and your restaurant is shut
21:34
Speaker 1: down right now, you sure do hope that when you
21:37
Speaker 1: can go back, that that restaurant hasn't gone out of business.
21:40
Speaker 1: And so you know my view, Look, I'm worried about
21:44
Speaker 1: what the Democrats are going to insist upon, and it
21:47
Speaker 1: is possible this bill gets to be such a mess
21:50
Speaker 1: that I vote no. I mean if if if they
21:53
Speaker 1: put a bunch of garbage in there, that's possible, I
21:57
Speaker 1: will say I would characterize myself as pleasant lea surprised
22:01
Speaker 1: as a conservative about where the bill is right now,
22:04
Speaker 1: in that it is not It is not like the
22:09
Speaker 1: Obama stimulus. We talked last night about how TARP, for example,
22:13
Speaker 1: was very different because there you had financial firms whose
22:16
Speaker 1: own misconduct had caused much of the crisis. This is different.
22:21
Speaker 1: This is more like a natural disaster, more like a
22:24
Speaker 1: hurricane or a fire, where it's not the fault of
22:27
Speaker 1: the restaurant that's shut down. Right now that this is happening,
22:31
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it's structured as loans. I think loans
22:34
Speaker 1: are the right way to do it. But it is
22:37
Speaker 1: still very fluid and up of the air. I mean,
22:39
Speaker 1: what do you think, John, Yeah, I agree with you.
22:41
Speaker 1: I voted against TARP and I'm happy with that vote.
22:44
Speaker 1: The small business component of this piece, I think is
22:47
Speaker 1: very important because it's a loan. But any money that's
22:50
Speaker 1: used to keep the payroll going out to the workers,
22:54
Speaker 1: any money that's used to just keep the rent paid
22:56
Speaker 1: and the electric bills paid, would be a forgiven loan.
23:00
Speaker 1: They wanted to use it for other things, that's different,
23:02
Speaker 1: so then they'd have to pay back with interest, but
23:04
Speaker 1: it would be it would basically be a forgiven loan
23:08
Speaker 1: if it's used just so that the doors can open
23:12
Speaker 1: three weeks from now or whenever those businesses have come
23:14
Speaker 1: because and that'll be done through the Small Business Administration.
23:17
Speaker 1: Seventy percent of the jobs in Wyoming, I'm sorry, seventy
23:21
Speaker 1: percent of jobs nationally are small through the small through
23:23
Speaker 1: small businesses less than five hundred employees in Wyoming. It's
23:27
Speaker 1: almost ninety five percent of the jobs through small businesses.
23:30
Speaker 1: So we want to make sure that the small businesses
23:33
Speaker 1: can reopen once we get the medical component of this
23:36
Speaker 1: behind us. You know, Michael. One thing about John, he
23:39
Speaker 1: was one of the first senators I got to know,
23:41
Speaker 1: and the reason is that he and I flew together
23:46
Speaker 1: when I was just brand new elected in twenty thirteen.
23:48
Speaker 1: We flew together to Israel and Afghanistan. And one of
23:51
Speaker 1: the things really amazing about John it is he's got
23:54
Speaker 1: a real heart for our troops and for our soldiers
23:58
Speaker 1: and sailors and airmen and marines, and he travels all
24:01
Speaker 1: over the world. How many trips have you taken abroad
24:03
Speaker 1: to visit our troops? Well, I go every Thanksgiving, no
24:06
Speaker 1: matter when where our Wyoming National Guard. I go every Thanksgiving.
24:10
Speaker 1: In this past Thanksgiving, talk to President Trump and said,
24:13
Speaker 1: you haven't been to Afghanistan, Love for you to go.
24:16
Speaker 1: Who Wyoming National Guard is there? And he went. We
24:19
Speaker 1: went in Air Force one. He surprised the world, certainly
24:21
Speaker 1: surprised the press, and surprised the troops. And it was
24:25
Speaker 1: really a wonderful reception by the President by the troops
24:30
Speaker 1: on the ground in Afghanistan, but you know, every Thanksgiving
24:33
Speaker 1: wherever they are, I'm with our Wyoming National Guard. Wow,
24:36
Speaker 1: that's tremendous and it certainly didn't surprise the press. I
24:39
Speaker 1: think they all thought he was playing golf and it
24:41
Speaker 1: was quite a nice reveal. Damn well, yeah, I forget
24:45
Speaker 1: there was one report I had to do a big correction.
24:47
Speaker 1: I think I forget which network had blasted him for
24:49
Speaker 1: playing golf. And I think he was literally in the
24:51
Speaker 1: air at the time. He was well, he was delighted
24:55
Speaker 1: that the surprise worked. He wanted to be He wanted
24:58
Speaker 1: it worked. There's there were a lot of backstories, but
25:01
Speaker 1: the President and you know, you have to do it
25:03
Speaker 1: that way. When we went, I think it was four
25:07
Speaker 1: or five of us that went and on that trip
25:08
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. I mean I still remember, Look, I've been
25:12
Speaker 1: sworn into the Senate three days earlier, so I'm sort
25:15
Speaker 1: of brand new to all of this, and I still
25:17
Speaker 1: remember they're putting, you know, flak jackets on us, and
25:20
Speaker 1: we're in helicopters flying over active war zones and getting
25:24
Speaker 1: instruction about all right, if they opened fire on the chopper.
25:27
Speaker 1: Here's what you gotta do. And look, obviously, when the
25:30
Speaker 1: president is coming in, you see Air Force one coming in.
25:33
Speaker 1: That has to be done at a high level of
25:35
Speaker 1: secrecy because there are a lot of bad guys would
25:37
Speaker 1: who would love to take a shot at the plane
25:40
Speaker 1: of the president and at night and the windows closed
25:42
Speaker 1: and lights off and only lights were on were on
25:45
Speaker 1: the runway so they could see in land. But it
25:47
Speaker 1: was very impressively done. And then they kind of a
25:50
Speaker 1: lockdown on communications on the ground until we were on
25:53
Speaker 1: the plane getting ready to go, and then they lifted
25:55
Speaker 1: the restrictions so that everyone could send That are you saying, John,
26:00
Speaker 1: that someone actually managed to stop the president from tweeting, Well,
26:04
Speaker 1: that was impossible. That was well, Well, someone was taking
26:11
Speaker 1: the role of the president as tweeter and continued to
26:14
Speaker 1: tweet during the trip so that the press wouldn't be
26:18
Speaker 1: suspicious or the public wouldn't be suspicious. So yes, his
26:22
Speaker 1: own phone in job, his own phone was taken away
26:25
Speaker 1: from him for the part of the trip. It was well,
26:29
Speaker 1: it was terrific and the best part for me coming
26:31
Speaker 1: back my daughter who had gone deer hunting that day
26:35
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving in Wyoming, shot this beautiful buck and she had
26:40
Speaker 1: texted me. I showed the picture to the President and
26:44
Speaker 1: he called her on the phone and yes, mister President,
26:48
Speaker 1: oh it was it was the call of her lifetime
26:50
Speaker 1: to talk to the President as he's looking this picture
26:52
Speaker 1: of my daughter Hadley with the gun, with the buck,
26:55
Speaker 1: with the great with an incredible rack on the buck.
26:58
Speaker 1: It was something that sounds much more exciting than my Thanksgiving.
27:02
Speaker 1: You know, we have just about a moment left here,
27:05
Speaker 1: or a minute left. Rather, I do want to get
27:07
Speaker 1: to one mail bag question. This is from Roger. Roger
27:10
Speaker 1: asks why was the CDC and the government so ill
27:14
Speaker 1: prepared for this situation? I know the system was obsolete,
27:18
Speaker 1: but what could have been done in years prior to
27:20
Speaker 1: be better prepared. Well, Look, I think there are a
27:23
Speaker 1: couple of things that government bureaucracies are almost always inherently slow,
27:30
Speaker 1: and they've got a bunch of regulatory barriers. So when
27:33
Speaker 1: it came to the CDC, you look at the rollout
27:35
Speaker 1: of the tests. The rollout of the test, as everyone knows,
27:38
Speaker 1: did not go very well. And a big part of
27:41
Speaker 1: the reason why is the CDC tried to do it
27:43
Speaker 1: all itself. They tried to do it within the federal government,
27:46
Speaker 1: and they had a problem with contamination in the labs,
27:49
Speaker 1: so the first test that came out didn't work. What
27:52
Speaker 1: we've done since then, and it's been a big shift,
27:55
Speaker 1: is that we've been powered the private sector. We've been
27:57
Speaker 1: powered labs like the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic
28:01
Speaker 1: to develop tests, and I think they're good lessons learned.
28:05
Speaker 1: But look, that's not the first time a government bureaucracy
28:09
Speaker 1: acted like a government bureaucracy. It's not the last time
28:11
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. But the more and by the way,
28:15
Speaker 1: also on the FDA side, removing the barriers. We need
28:19
Speaker 1: to develop a vaccine, We need to develop treatments for coronavirus,
28:23
Speaker 1: We need to develop a cure. And there are a
28:25
Speaker 1: lot of wonderful professionals at CDCFDA and they're doing heroic
28:29
Speaker 1: work right now. But the FDA, they like their rules
28:33
Speaker 1: and they're hesitant, they're resistant to change. And we don't
28:37
Speaker 1: need a vaccine two years from now. We need a
28:39
Speaker 1: vaccine fast implemented because we need to get out of
28:44
Speaker 1: this this this economic slowdown and get the economy back booming.
28:48
Speaker 1: We need to say people's lives and what do you think, John,
28:50
Speaker 1: I agree completely. I think the CDC had this kind
28:52
Speaker 1: of command in control centralization of everything, including the tests,
28:57
Speaker 1: and I think it didn't do as well as I
28:59
Speaker 1: would have liked. And the private sector is responding in
29:02
Speaker 1: a way that we know. The private sector always responds,
29:04
Speaker 1: and that's why we have made the advances in the
29:06
Speaker 1: availability of tests that we were behind at the beginning. Well,
29:11
Speaker 1: that is a hopeful note to end on. We will
29:13
Speaker 1: have to leave it there. I note that both of
29:15
Speaker 1: you will have to go back because soon there will
29:17
Speaker 1: be a vote on the next stage of relief from coronavirus.
29:20
Speaker 1: Senator Brasso, thank you so much for joining us, and
29:23
Speaker 1: thank your CRUs of course, thank you as always for
29:27
Speaker 1: shedding some light on what's going on, because there is
29:30
Speaker 1: a real problem in the flow of information here, so
29:32
Speaker 1: it's really nice to be able to see what the
29:34
Speaker 1: government is doing. We will be back with a whole
29:36
Speaker 1: lot more, but we can't do that today, so in
29:38
Speaker 1: the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
29:49
Speaker 1: This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought
29:52
Speaker 1: to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political
29:55
Speaker 1: action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and cidates
30:00
Speaker 1: across the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs, Freedom, and
30:03
Speaker 1: Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running for
30:07
Speaker 1: Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.