Latest / Flourishing in Medicine: From Surviving to Thriving / Flourishing in Medicine: From Surviving to Thriving Episode 11 From Teaching to Healing: A Medical Student's Journey with 4th Year Medical Student Malayna Hocker

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Flourishing in Medicine: From Surviving to Thriving Episode 11 From Teaching to Healing: A Medical Student's Journey with 4th Year Medical Student Malayna Hocker · Flourishing in Medicine: From Surviving to Thriving

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  I actually think that finding connection and breaking out of that isolation and breaking
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  out of this cycle of shame that has been ingrained in teaching medical trainees is actually what
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  will help burn out in the future.
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  When people feel like they have a place to go and people feel welcome as they are, when
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  people are expected to struggle because this is an inherently difficult process that we
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  all go through, I think that is kind of the greatest opportunity that we have as learners
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  but also as future teachers, being medical students, to kind of contribute to changing
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  this culture, which in a lot of ways has just been toxic.
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  Welcome to Flourishing in Medicine, from surviving to thriving.
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  I'm your host, Dr. Mick Krasner.
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  This podcast is brought to you by EmPRO, a medical professional liability insurance carrier
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  in New York State with a long-standing and deep commitment of supporting physicians through
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  its peer support programs.
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  Today I'm really excited to share with you my conversation with Malayna Hocker as we continue
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  to explore medical education in the context of flourishing in medicine, picking up where
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  we left off last episode with our interview with medical educator Dr. Raphael Bonvin.
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  Malayna is a fourth-year medical student at the University of Rochester School of Medicine
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  and Dentistry and she plans to enter the field of obstetrics and gynecology.
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  Her journey to medicine is interesting and woven into that is her love of teaching, provides
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  a glimpse into the future of medical educators, issues important to the newest generation
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  of physicians and also the need for patient and health professional advocacy as that future
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  is crafted by professionals like the future Dr. Hocker.
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  Please enjoy this inspiring and hopeful conversation with Malayna Hocker about flourishing in medicine
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  and now our conversation with Malayna Hocker.
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  Welcome, Malayna.
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  Thank you very much for joining me and having this conversation.
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  It's really wonderful actually to talk to medical students, people that are earlier
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  in their training because sometimes we get so set in our ways and we fail to see both
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  some of the problems but also we fail sometimes to see some of the potential and some of the
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  good and I'm hoping we'll get into both of those areas.
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  What I'd like to start with is actually I've started with all the guests so far is if you
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  could tell us a little bit about how you chose medicine.
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  You know in my experience and talking with lots and lots of people who are in medicine
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  and asking them that question, sometimes there's some common themes.
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  Sometimes it's really interesting and really unique.
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  Well, it's always really unique but sometimes there are common themes having to do with
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  encounters with challenges and difficulties, something's very personal, illnesses in the
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  family or just some sensibility that develops through one's education about what it means
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  to serve and what it means to kind of apply one's talents in that way and the rewards
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  one gets.
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  So if you could go as far back as you'd like to and just take your time and just tell us
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  that the story, what I like to refer to as your origin story in medicine.
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  Sure.
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  Thinking about kind of some of those examples you gave, reflecting on my story, it kind
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  of seems like I came to medicine out of the blue.
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  I didn't have any personal connection with medicine.
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  Actually as a child, my grandmother had a series of like cardiac problems and I hated
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  my time that I spent in hospitals.
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  I hated the smell, like I just hated the sterile, I hated everything about it and I actually
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  had a principal and like career counselor my senior year in high school say like, oh
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  I could really see you in medicine and I laughed in her face.
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  I really didn't think that this was going to be a place for me and it wasn't until college
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  that I really started considering it, like I really enjoyed the sciences.
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  I think I had wanted to do many different kinds of things as I was growing when I was
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  younger.
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  They were all kind of connected by that service element I think that you were talking about
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  so it was great to hear you say that because it kind of perfectly encapsulated what I wanted
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  to do.
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  I knew from a young age that I wanted to do something to like help people, to serve the
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  community, but that can look a lot of ways and so when you're thinking about applying
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  to medical school, that's really not a strong enough reason to put yourself through all
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  of this when there are other ways you could possibly achieve that.
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  And I took my pre-reqs, I took, started taking pre-reqs and honestly I was scared away by
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  this idea that you had to be the perfect student really if you wanted to be a doctor and I
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  got a C in organic chemistry and I was like okay so I'm not going to be a doctor, let's
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  like start considering other paths.
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  And so I wrote a senior thesis, I thought maybe I'll apply to graduate school, maybe
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  I'll do a master's, maybe I'll become an epidemiologist or you know some other health-related field
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  and I didn't enjoy my bench research as much as I thought I would.
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  I love the science, I miss the people and I really had, I don't have any doctors in
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  the family.
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  I didn't know anything really about the path so at that point I didn't have clinical experiences,
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  I didn't have shadowing experiences, honestly I didn't even know that that was a requirement
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  and so I took a kind of non-traditional path, I taught for several years and I fell in love
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  with teaching which in a surprising turn of events actually turned me back towards medicine
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  because it was the teaching and working with students and families and having to individualize
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  plans and having to troubleshoot when things went wrong and realizing how really significantly
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  health impacted these kids' education that I thought okay like maybe I do need to return
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  to this idea of medicine and becoming a physician.
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  So I did a post-bac program and from there kind of got a little bit more of the guidance
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  that I needed but it was really not until I understood what it meant to work with people
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  and to really understand where people are coming from and understand where they need
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  help is not often where we want to help them that I realized that like medicine was actually
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  gonna be the right path and it's hard because teaching showed me that and it was also incredibly
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  hard for me to leave teaching.
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  I learned so much from it and honestly it's become such a huge part of even my career
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  and my path in medicine, I do a lot of teaching still today.
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  I think there's lots of teaching in patient education, teaching of your colleagues as
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  you're trying to like change the culture of medicine, teaching of you know future trainees
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  and the next generation of physicians so I still do a lot of that and through my kind
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  of zigzag path I'm here.
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  That's great, yeah thank you.
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  You know coming it's really interesting how you describe this coming back to medicine
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  through this experience of teaching and I know a little bit about you, I know you because
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  you're a student at the University of Rochester and that's how we've met in full disclosure
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  but also I know a little bit about your teaching experience and I think the listener would
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  the listeners would really enjoy hearing a little bit about what that was like, where
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  you did that, how that came about, what those experiences you alluded a little bit to some
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  of the challenges in those experiences and how you became in touch with health in general
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  as a feature of human life, of human existence through those encounters with the people you
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  were teaching but tell us a little bit about that.
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  I think it's kind of interesting because once I decided that I didn't want to pursue like
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  a graduate degree I was at a loss for a little bit not really knowing what I would do next
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  because they're it kind of canceled out my the fields or my options within science right
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  I didn't want to do medicine and I didn't want to do research so really the only other
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  skill I had at the time was working with children that was my work study job.
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  I came in very stubborn and I said I don't want to work in the dining hall and as a first
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  year student the only other option for work study was to work with this program called
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  America Reads and so I was technically an America Reads tutor and I worked at a preschool
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  slash like after school program all four years that I was in college and so I thought okay
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  like I don't really know what I want to do right now I really do enjoy this work with
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  kids I really enjoy science and so I started looking for jobs basically as a science teacher
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  you know New York City being New York City there were a number of listings for teachers
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  in that area particularly at charter schools because the requirements are a little bit
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  different in terms of how they're governed and so they could allow me to teach there
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  as a person who didn't have a teaching degree.
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  Ultimately I ended up working in the South Bronx at a really small actually charter school
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  system.
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  I was hired as a TA but the school had a lot of turnover because there was a lot of needs
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  and I think a lot of problems within the school and the area and after I had started probably
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  by November of that year a couple months into the school year there had been two different
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  sets of teachers and TAs that had quit in one of the kindergarten classrooms and I was
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  available so that was kind of like I was thrust into this lead teaching position because they
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  needed people and it was really hard I remember my first day oh my gosh I took the kids down
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  to dismissal and one of the moms asked me like oh how was my son and I said you know
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  it was like kind of up and down today and she was so upset with me she was like well
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  you're the fifth teacher he's had this year you're gonna expect a lot more up and down
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  they did not trust me the kids did not listen to me and right like why would they they'd
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  had they're five years old and they've had no stability at all whatsoever this whole
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  year and so it was really a challenge like my first like I couldn't even think about
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  teaching like I had to just think about like getting the classroom under control getting
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  them to trust me it was it was really scary and stressful and then if you add on top of
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  that like I don't know can you remember how you learned language and letters like to have
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  to rethink about like those fundamentals and how you got to where you don't even think
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  about it today that was really hard and so we made it through the year I think we got
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  to a good place I really enjoyed it I really really connected with those kids by the end
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  of the year but you know there were there were some things just given family situations
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  where we had to address unexpected things all the all the time even in kindergarten
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  kids who were really violent even in kindergarten kids who made drug references because of what
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  they were seeing at home it was hard the following year I took over a second grade class because
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  they they asked my preference and kindergarten was just a little too hard for me a little
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  too hard I wanted kids who could understand sarcasm a little bit better that went really
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  well it was really a night and day difference to like have the trust from the beginning
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  and not have to earn it so and not have to fight so hard to earn it but that year two
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  of my best students had like really life-altering changes in their family one student had lost
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  their dad unexpectedly and one student had their dad go to jail or prison or I'm not
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  really sure that the situation entirely but it completely changed who they were I think
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  one of the biggest challenges that I faced at any point in my teaching career was that
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  I have the goal I have a goal for each lesson you know students need to learn X but when
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  this kid's dealing with her dad and this kid's dealing with her dad and this kid's family
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  doesn't speak English at home so he doesn't do the homework because no one can help him
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  with the homework and this kid doesn't do the homework because he's mostly watched by
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  his older siblings and this kid didn't do the homework because they're at a babysitter
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  until midnight it's hard there's such unique situations happening all over the classroom
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  and somehow I have to address all of those things and I learned very quickly that like
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  I cannot stay my path and still get to the goal that I wanted to go to and I had to do
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  a lot of like individualizing I had to do a lot of like meeting people where they were
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  I had to do a lot of compromising and negotiating and convincing of families that what we were
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  doing was important how can we make this happen like what resources do you need and so it
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  was it was really hard to learn that and to navigate that but I think that's a lot of
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  what we do in medicine too right meeting people where they are and understanding how their
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  circumstances led them to where they are and figuring out given all of that history how
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  do we then meet this kind of common goal how do we meet my goal of having them be healthy
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  or take this medication or have this procedure and how do I sometimes have to address that
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  goal to just kind of better align with their goals and their values and where they're at
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  and and what's realistic for them so earlier you had mentioned about through this experience
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  of teaching and education coming back to medicine were there direct encounters with the health
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  care system or even indirect encounters but in your mind you were really aware of this
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  how the system of health care was affecting in either a positive way or a negative way
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  the lives of these young people that you were asked to be the teacher of was there any experiences
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  or or connection that you saw in that yeah I think I noticed a few things mostly indirectly
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  I didn't have a lot of direct contact with the health care system at that time but I
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  was in the south Bronx in 85 that's maybe a little bit dramatic but 75 percent of my
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  kids had asthma and it was interesting I learned after a year or two maybe teaching that maybe
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  in the 90s they built this huge highway through the Bronx and it like completely changed the
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  dynamic of the borough and it also kind of like left this trail of pollution and so I
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  learned that the rates of asthma in the Bronx are just way higher so I had two kids who
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  were routinely sent to the nurse's office and there for like half a day because of asthma
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  related symptoms and so that was hard and kids are technically at school but missing
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  most of the coursework because they are you know rightfully getting treatment for their
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  asthma that was difficult and then the other thing that I saw which is even more indirect
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  was that in this area there were lots of like immigrant families that were very large multiple
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  siblings and so if one kid was sick due to transportation or even just you know supervision
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  of the kids sometimes my students who weren't sick would not come to school because they
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  had siblings at home who were sick and no one to bring them to school because someone
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  had to stay home with the sick kid and so they'd all just stay home together and so
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  that was interesting that was really a frame shift for me but yeah it kind of crept in
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  in small and unexpected ways and it kept my interest in medicine kind of alive and it
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  kept just popping up on my radar.
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  So as you moved into your medical school education and I just would like you to talk a little
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  bit about this the teaching that you've continued to do.
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  How you know how did that come about?
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  What was driving you?
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  What was the what was the motivation for you to continue to do that and I know you've been
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  doing it throughout the entire four years and also is there a connection with the teaching
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  and for you personally feeling like you can flourish as a physician as a medical professional?
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  The way that I think about teaching I think has evolved quite a bit since leaving like
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  the actual field of education you know when I was doing my post-bac to finish those requirements
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  and retake whatever requirements I needed I really used teaching as a learning tool.
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  I found I learned information so much better when I was able to teach it to someone else
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  and during that time is also when I started to gain clinical experiences and similarly
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  I learned a lot by trying to teach patients about you know studies that I was recruiting
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  for kind of as a research intern.
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  How well do I understand the study?
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  How well do I understand what the study is studying?
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  And then how do I break that down into bite-sized pieces so that children sometimes but mostly
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  parents of children can understand that.
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  So that was kind of my first foray into education out of education out of my teaching direct
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  teaching experiences.
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  As a medical student teaching has really taken on a bit more of an advocacy role for me especially
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  now I think my teaching interests I knew that I wanted to come to a place where teaching
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  was really emphasized learning was really emphasized and there'd be opportunities to
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  continue to teach if I wanted to but here it really came out of discomfort.
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  Most of my the teaching that I've done has come out of really I can trace it all back
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  to difficult experiences I had in the anatomy lab and conflict I had there with feeling
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  like it was a rite of passage and I should be so grateful but also it was like really
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  emotionally difficult to do some of these dissections and it left me with lots of doubts
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  and questions about how we do this and why we do this and what's necessary and what's
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  not necessary and is it worth it for our learning for the sole purpose of our learning.
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  And so a lot of my teaching came out of wanting to process that and wanting to give other
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  people a place to process that because as I learned more and did research about that
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  topic I found that it's actually not uncommon for students to have you know these these
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  thoughts or feelings about the anatomy lab but when I looked around me it didn't seem
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  like a lot of those conversations were being had and I think that's for lots of reasons
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  right like stoicism is highly highly valued and even applauded in medicine and so you
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  know acting like you have everything all together you know seeming like calculated and precise
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  in your actions is I don't know if that's the stereotype I had in my head of medicine
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  and so that's where a lot of the teaching came from and it really just sprouted from
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  there it led me from one conversation to another so that led to conversations with my mentor
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  about how do we handle discomfort in clinical years when we're constantly being evaluated
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  when we are learning new practices in medicine and sometimes because we're new learners are
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  closer to the new evidence-based medicine than some of our attendings which is like
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  a hard thing to accept it's a hard thing for us to have confidence in as medical students
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  so we're never gonna speak over an attending who is maybe not the most culturally accepting
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  or not considering social determinants or is still using race-based GFR those are all
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  like diversity examples in particular but I think it applies in many ways to the kind
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  of like rigid and sometimes toxic culture of medicine and then as I as I bloomed blossomed
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  into a future OBGYN I had similar questions right about how we we deal with these hardships
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  in OB these disparities that we have in OB and you know the long long legacy of obstetrics
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  and gynecology in the United States and so that's really where I've spent a lot of my
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  time and focus teaching is as kind of an advocate really for patients but also an advocate for
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  trainees and and opening up conversations these difficult conversations about you know
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  wellness well-being questioning doubt that I think is inevitable at times during the
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  medical training process and maybe maybe everyone doesn't experience that but you know from
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  my conversations with people and maybe we're a self-selecting group here at the University
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  of Rochester with our biopsychosocial model and you know our values are very clearly laid
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  out on the table but the more I talk to people the more I find that it it's a conversation
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  people want to be having and I find that people feel grateful for having the door kind of
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  open to engage in those conversations so that they don't have to be the ones to start them
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  necessarily yeah I think you've been talking a lot about the culture of medicine and earlier
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  you had said things you like about teaching now is you can begin to address shaping that
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  culture and I do see you and and the other students that are coming into the profession
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  as they're the future you know they're going to be shaping you're going to be shaping the
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  culture and so I'd like you if you could just reflect maybe some more on you know what are
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  the parts of the culture of medicine that I think are really challenging to allowing
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  trainees and people in practice to flourish to really do their job well with high quality
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  but with satisfaction and meaning and with a lot of compassion and connection and empathy
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  for the role of serving the communities that we work in what are some of the challenges
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  and what are some of the opportunities what are some of the potentials you know you've
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  found that in this culture that you've found here in Rochester in your education there's
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  an opening there's a possibility you could actually begin to kind of have an effect on
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  some of these issues that you just talked just spoke about and maybe in your field of
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  OB that you'll be going into you know maybe you'll be able to also be someone who could
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  bring some of that in for change and does doing that for you also I guess the third
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  part would be does does engaging in that also does it help you flourish is it something
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  that you really get a lot out of that really helps you in some ways balance out some of
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  the imperfections and the systemic challenges that really lead to some of the difficulties
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  we're having in medicine with burnout with people being unsatisfied and treating staff
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  and colleagues and patients in ways that are just not healthy.
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  Yeah that's a very big question so I'll try to tackle it as best I can.
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  I think from the first time that I was interested in medicine there was a stereotype in my head
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  about what that meant and who could do that and when I was in college and I was taking
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  these pre-medical classes there was definitely this this idea that you had to be perfect
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  you have to be the perfect student you had to have straight A's if you didn't well forget
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  about it right that's not who we want in medicine and so that is that was discouraging I think
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  very early on that was discouraging I think it took a lot of extra drive in other areas
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  to combat that but even to convince myself that that wasn't necessarily true when I think
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  about it now some of some of my favorite people in medicine and some of my favorite classmates
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  who I think are gonna make incredible doctors were not the perfect student they were not
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  that person they're they're people who are compassionate and who have done a lot and
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  who have learned a lot and care about people and some of them are brilliant in in many
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  different ways that have nothing to do with grades but that was kind of my early idea
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  of like what it meant to be in medicine and then after I had been accepted there was this
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  whole idea about oh well now there are all of these rites of passage and you have to
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  be prepared you're just like say goodbye to your family you need to say goodbye to sleeping
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  you're gonna be drinking from the fire hose right and you just need to be basically prepared
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  for that like to be prepared to have a miserable existence for four years and then in residency
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  like it's also going to be a little bit miserable but one day you'll be in attending and it'll
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  all be worth it right like that that's the notion that was conveyed to me by other physicians
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  I think that that kind of continued throughout like pre-med through medical school you know
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  even students I think are not encouraged to talk about their grades and what they're getting
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  on things which I think is interesting there's this idea that oh well if you don't like the
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  anatomy lab then you can't be a surgeon because those are the skills that you need just lots
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  of little like isms that I don't know where they came from but they really overshadowed
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  my entry into medicine and I think it creates a culture of fear and I think it creates a
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  culture of isolation because it seems like everybody is scared to be the person who doesn't
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  fit in to be the person who doesn't cut it because there's this very specific mold that
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  has been laid out ahead of us and I think that's hard this same physician even told
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  me like oh your first 36-hour shift as a resident that's a rite of passage too but now we have
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  research that shows that our brains don't function well on even 24 hours without sleep
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  even 18 hours with sleep there was a time when that was the expected norm even though
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  now we know that that's probably not for the great like for anybody's benefit really and
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  so I think there are lots of opportunities I think at any level anyone who's working
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  with trainees has an opportunity to have conversations that that's not the case to normalize asking
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  questions to normalize not knowing to kind of get rid of this idea of like the toxic
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  questioning on on rounds where medical students are penalized for not having read every word
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  of the textbook and memorized what they needed to know for that particular specialty and
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  I'm like getting a little rambling I thought a lot about this but it's such a such a big
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  topic and I think there are also opportunities just on the peer level and on the mentorship
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  level I think conversations I are kind of the greatest weapon right now I think to combat
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  that because what another thing that we know about burnout is that some cardinal symptoms
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  of burnout are depersonalization and that's when you're like not treating people well
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  around you because you have this this I don't know there are a couple different articles
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  that kind of define burnout differently but this depersonalization and this kind of lack
• 28:36
  of empathy that develops and it's kind of burned into people throughout the medical
• 28:41
  process and we're also told that that's a given right like you'll you'll become jaded
• 28:47
  you'll get burnt out and you just have to deal with that as well but I actually think
• 28:52
  that finding connection and breaking out of that isolation and breaking out of this cycle
• 28:57
  of shame that has been ingrained in teaching medical trainees is actually what will help
• 29:04
  burnout in the future when people feel like they have a place to go and people feel welcome
• 29:11
  as they are when people are expected to struggle because this is an inherently difficult process
• 29:18
  that we all go through I think that is is kind of the greatest opportunity that we have
• 29:27
  as learners but also as future teachers you know being medical students to kind of contribute
• 29:34
  to changing this culture which in a lot of ways has just been toxic and I don't think
• 29:41
  leads to good outcomes for patients and I think if we were happier and more balanced
• 29:47
  and more well as people we can always do better for our patients well there's a lot of evidence
• 29:54
  that connects our well-being directly with quality of care that's almost beyond argument
• 29:59
  at this point but I really like what you're talking about which has to do with connection
• 30:03
  it has to do with openness and being able to communicate you use that word and transparency
• 30:12
  I didn't even think about grades but actually if you could imagine what would it be like
• 30:16
  to be in a learning environment where people are sharing how they did openly on things
• 30:22
  and learning from each other like what are the barriers why couldn't I you know just
• 30:27
  like you did with those children what were the barriers for them to learn well maybe
• 30:31
  they couldn't come to school because they had to be at home because someone else was
• 30:35
  sick at home whatever they were but sort of pulling back the curtain and really showing
• 30:41
  these habits are sometimes habits they're social mores that however they got started
• 30:47
  and solidified they need to change and we're not going to have any impact on them until
• 30:53
  we actually honestly are able to talk about it so I really I really like what you said
• 30:58
  I think it's really important and very insightful we're getting close to the end we have just
• 31:03
  a few more things I want to ask you about what is joy like how do you understand joy
• 31:08
  j-o-y in the context of your studies in the context of your profession and you feel like
• 31:15
  it's important and is there is there an expectation I believe there's an expectation that we should
• 31:21
  be joyful in the work that we do because it is a can be a joyous work even though we're
• 31:27
  working with suffering illness aging death all those things there's something about this
• 31:32
  work serving which we started out with earlier in the conversation that can be and should
• 31:38
  be I think joyful and I'm just interested in your take on it at this point in your career
• 31:44
  path what that means for you and meaning so joy and meaning and then maybe you can tell
• 31:52
  us a little bit about like what is it that you do that brings you a lot of joy what do
• 31:56
  you like to do for fun and then it really enhances your quality of life in terms of
• 32:02
  joy there are two kind of immediate things that come to mind in the work that we do that
• 32:11
  I think bring me a lot of joy and I think one of them is I find a lot of joy in learning
• 32:16
  I'm on an elective rotation right now I chose something that I am personally interested
• 32:21
  in doing and as a person who's going into this field of OBGYN has chosen to take this
• 32:27
  elective have earned trust in lots of different ways I'm getting to learn and experience a
• 32:32
  lot of different things to build skills and I find a lot of enjoyment in that and I think
• 32:38
  you know that could in the future mean just like staying up to date on the research in
• 32:44
  the field and learning as the field evolves like what are the new guidelines and why are
• 32:49
  we think why do we not do this anymore and so I find that really exciting maybe I'm just
• 32:54
  a nerd but I get a lot of joy out of learning I think that this is probably in many fields
• 32:59
  but I feel this very strongly and OB is just helping people live a life that they want
• 33:06
  to live because at the end of the day it's not about me I have a lot of knowledge that
• 33:10
  I'm happy to share and I have a lot of resources at my disposal to help connect people to the
• 33:18
  things that they need and so I get a lot of joy when I'm able to kind of help a patient
• 33:24
  navigate a system come to an agreement about how to improve their health help them you
• 33:29
  know meet their their personal health goals those I find all to be really exciting and
• 33:35
  it overlaps with meaning a little bit too I find those to be really meaningful interactions
• 33:42
  with patients and again overlapping is teaching I get a lot of joy out of teaching even just
• 33:50
  third-year medical students like teaching them how to scrub for the OR like that some students
• 33:57
  like don't get taught before they start OB-GYN and so it's really exciting to just engage in
• 34:03
  someone's like first experiences with something that's like really fun and exciting for me but
• 34:09
  also offers a lot of meaning to be able to be like a supportive person a like non-threatening
• 34:16
  person at their level to provide some kind of knowledge and insight is really fun and exciting
• 34:22
  so my first year I liked to paint a lot um actually while in medical school I took an
• 34:29
  ice skating class like lessons because I'm from Arizona and we live in a very snowy wintery place
• 34:36
  and I was like well what am I gonna do in the winter time and so I learned how to ice skate
• 34:41
  which was really fun um and I still do that rather frequently my partner and I go to the gym a lot
• 34:47
  actually we've gotten into like power lifting which I think I find really fun um and someone
• 34:52
  in an interview the other day actually told me like it actually tracks for someone who's in
• 34:57
  medicine to really like weight lifting because it's so like tangible the gains are tangible and the
• 35:04
  numbers are real and so yeah I I do think that that tracks and you know I live here with my
• 35:10
  my fiance and we have a dog and so getting out with the dog whenever is always a good time and
• 35:16
  just kind of going out for walks and being outdoors is wonderful and honestly right now
• 35:22
  I'm spending a lot of time outside of medicine planning our wedding we're getting married in May
• 35:27
  so you know timing the balance in the the human and life things. Sounds wonderful congratulations
• 35:35
  and is there anything that you would else you'd like to add maybe even say relative to
• 35:43
  hopefully there'll be some students listening to this podcast and and physicians out there that
• 35:48
  have been practicing for a while physicians in your in your future field that will be colleagues
• 35:53
  of yours that may listen to this you know anything else you'd like to say about about flourishing
• 35:58
  in as a health professional especially as a physician. I would say you know despite my
• 36:06
  preconceived notions coming into medicine the thing that has helped me to feel the most fulfilled
• 36:12
  and really keep going is realizing that you don't have to give up any part of your personhood to be
• 36:22
  a medical student to be if I mean I'm not yet a resident or a physician but I truly believe you
• 36:29
  don't need to give those things up to be a physician either and I actually think it makes
• 36:32
  you better for it and I'm really excited for this new wave of residents and physicians who are
• 36:40
  setting boundaries who are taking care of their health who are enjoying the things that they love
• 36:45
  outside of medicine and finding incredible fulfillment in that and as a result more
• 36:51
  fulfillment in in their jobs and in their work at the hospital. I agree with you and guess what
• 36:57
  they're going to be taking care of people like me who are getting old so I'm really happy about that
• 37:02
  so wonderful well thanks Malayna. Thanks for listening we will include a summer of today's
• 37:08
  podcast and links about Malayna Hocker and other topics discussed in the show notes. I'd like to
• 37:14
  conclude by sharing another practical exercise to help you flourish during your workday and to add
• 37:20
  to the others that I've shared in prior episodes. Malayna shared with us her passion for teaching and
• 37:25
  how that passion brought her into medicine and continues to be central to her raison d'etre
• 37:32
  and we in the health professions in fact anyone who care for others which actually includes every
• 37:38
  single person listening to this podcast teaches others. This contemplative practice is a very
• 37:44
  brief writing exercise so all that's required is a piece of paper and a pen or pencil or if you'd
• 37:51
  rather a document or space open on the computer or smartphone in which you can write down a few
• 37:57
  words. I invite you now to think for a moment about interactions you had recently today yesterday
• 38:04
  last week at work at home out in the community interactions with other people. Thinking about
• 38:13
  the conversations you engaged in professional or personal and thinking about these conversations
• 38:19
  as teaching experiences what did you teach in the way that you spoke with related to conversed with
• 38:27
  or interacted during these moments. Reflecting on these experience for a few moments and simply
• 38:35
  write down a single word or several of them separately or simple few word phrases that
• 38:41
  arise as you think about this. Don't filter too much don't edit just whatever arises as you think
• 38:47
  about the interactions you had and thinking about them in terms of what you taught through those
• 38:55
  interactions. It's for you to write and only for you to reflect on for example a word like empathy
• 39:02
  or a word like connection or words like growth kindness information may arise. You may wind up
• 39:15
  with one or two words on the paper or 10 to 15 words there's no grade here. When you're finished
• 39:24
  set this aside with an intention to look at these words over the next few weeks from time to time
• 39:30
  and perhaps repeating the exercise to see if other words arise and notice if your awareness of your
• 39:35
  role in teaching others through your interactions and teaching yourself for that matter if things
• 39:43
  somehow change shift for you. I hope you found this podcast and this simple exercise useful
• 39:48
  and look forward to having you join us for the next episode of Flourishing in Medicine: From Surviving
• 39:54
  to Thriving. This podcast has been brought to you by EmPRO its technical director in charge of
• 40:00
  recording and editing the podcast is Stan Sainjour and its producer responsible really for the
• 40:06
  existence of the podcast is the vice president of education at EmPRO Gerri Donohue. If you'd like to
• 40:11
  learn more about EmPRO please visit www.myEmPRO.com and if you'd like to learn more about EmPRO's
• 40:18
  peer support programs that I mentioned at the beginning please visit www.myEmPRO.com
• 40:26
  forward slash peer dash support. If you are a physician or medical student and in need of
• 40:31
  urgent support please consider calling the physician support line at 1-888-409-0141 that's
• 40:40
  1-888-409-0141 or visit www.physiciansupportline.com. This physician support line provides a safe space
• 40:52
  to discuss immediate life stressors with volunteer psychiatrist colleagues who are uniquely trained
• 40:59
  in mental wellness and also have similar shared experiences of the profession of medicine.
• 41:04
  For more information about me and my work please visit my website at www.MickKrasnermd.com
• 41:11
  or www.mindfulpracticeinmedicine.com. Until next time.