Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #260 | Estimating Estimating Is the Heart of the Business With Josh from Elevate Estimating Services

Transcript

The Daily Dose #260 | Estimating Estimating Is the Heart of the Business With Josh from Elevate Estimating Services · The Good Builder Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This episode is proudly supported by the new home electrical specialists. If you're building new homes out there, you already know electrical is one of those trades where shortcuts show up later and usually at the worst time. The new home electrical specialists focus purely on residential new builds. They understand the sequencing, the pressure, and what builders actually need on-site. Clear communication, proper training, proper planning, and work that's done right the first time.
• 0:28
  If you want an electrical partner who knows how new homes really get built, head to tnhes.com.au to learn more, they're absolute legends. Well, good morning and welcome to The Good Builder Podcast. Today, I am very excited for this conversation actually, because of the conversations we've been having before this conversation. Gentleman that I am sitting next to today is named Josh Peapoint. He is an absolute weapon, actually.
• 1:13
  Yeah. Talking to him and and this this is a very timely chat, to be honest with you, because we're going through some very, very interesting times. Just to give you a bit of a background about this absolute legend that I'm pretty sure you're gonna be seeing a bit more of on The Good Builder. He's got fifteen years experience in the industry. He's worked with some of the most amazing builders, biggest builders, smallest builders.
• 1:33
  Yep. Navigate through everything. Doesn't matter who what size they are. Yep. Actually helping our mate Daz over at Atondo.
• 1:39
  It's just a stone's throw from the Good Builder Studio. We love you, Daz and Mel. You're just legends. You're legends. You work with a legend.
• 1:46
  And just about twelve months ago or just over, he started a business called Elevate Estimate. Yeah. So he offers the full gamut of estimation services for builders. He's worked with about 56, I think, 56
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: builders. Yeah. 56 in the last twelve months through basically all of Australia, but a lot of them in Southeast Queensland.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: And that's through word-of-mouth, just through your reputation, really.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's basically just supplier and relationships that I've built over the years. And, you know, it's lot of word-of-mouth.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: This is probably the first time you might've even seen this gentleman's face because he doesn't really promote himself that much. But behind the scenes, we were actually talking about this before the podcast started. One of the things I love about the industry is one, you can weed out people if they're shit because people get found out real quick. If you're very good, you get found out just as quick. And I think that alludes to your working with over 56 builders and starting your own business successfully.
• 2:39
  Mate, pleasure to have you on and I
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: just appreciate it, mate.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: When did it all sort of start? Like, where'd you where did it all sort of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: begin, John? Mate, I fell into estimating. Yeah. Wow. I was working for a roofing company manufacturing, rolling fascia and gutter, hurt my shoulder and they put me on to the dumb end of the folder, the hydraulic press.
• 2:58
  Yeah. And I basically went in to try and get a flashing and I pressed the button and squashed my finger. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Shit.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: So I always liked numbers. Yeah. I actually wanted to be an accountant.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. So they said, come into the office for a couple of weeks. Yeah. Went in, never left.
• 3:19
  Got on really well with the the the estimator there.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You just kinda got it?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Just got it. Picked it up. He gave he gave me a book and said, up. Yep. So they can't put you up back.
• 3:27
  And that was the start of it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Well, looking at you, mate, first of all, it doesn't look like you've had any injuries. You're a bit of a monster. A little bit small in his chair. That's alright. Usually, I'm the bigger guest, but anyway, maybe I buff myself up
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: a little.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: But, you know, beside that, mate, but that's that's a phenomenal story. So you just got manufacturing when in estimating. So you've seen it all from the manufacturing side of things well, which I think is very important. Yeah.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I've got the stitches to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: prove it
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. From there, who who did you go? Who did you go and
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: work with from there? Mate, from there, moved to Melbourne and just through the footy club that I was playing at. Yeah. I've got a gig as assistant estimator. Yeah.
• 4:03
  Yeah. And then sort of, I played footy obviously, know, I traveled around doing that and had a few little breaks in between. But then we, my wife and I moved to Melbourne for a little bit. Yeah. I got in with Porta Davis and then we wanted to come back to Queensland.
• 4:16
  I was extremely lucky to score a interview with Brett Bolton from Bold. Yes. Yeah. I'm just really glad that he took the punt on me and Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:27
  And then moved back to the coast and worked with few of the bigger builders, couple of the smaller ones. And yeah, it sort of came to it sort of, I reckon in the February that I needed to do something different. And I've always sort of played with the idea of starting my own gig. And I just feel like the time was right. I had the backing of my wife.
• 4:49
  Yep. She's been amazing
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: with That's your energy boss.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Minister of finance. So mate, yeah. So she backed me in and I was nervous as anything getting into it because you never know what is going to happen.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: No. No.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Good business. And then just been extremely lucky with the relationships I've built over the years that I've had a lot of people go into bat for me and recommend me.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: They do say you make out in luck though, Josh.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Apparently.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what mean? 56 builders later.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and mate, now it's, yeah, it's at a point where I'm, yeah, really enjoying it. Love helping people. Yeah. And mate, just want to take it to the next level and help more and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: You do mate. Like our little conversation that we just had out the back here before we jumped on, but that was cool, mate. Like, you were just kind of we'll talk about it later on, bud, because I want I wanna introduce you and and and the community out there, please check out Elevate Estimating. Like, we're gonna go through some really interesting times and they're the stuff we talked about back. Josh wasn't about pushing, actually didn't really wanna push this message to push an agenda of getting more business, but he was like, these people need to know what's going on.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A 100%. And it's not about self promotion. It's about awareness And in the you know, if I can help in that space, awesome. Realistically, as long as we bring it to their attention, that's what you do really well.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: No. Thanks,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: mate. You know, the more we can get out there, the better.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I can't bring it to their attention without people like you.
• 6:13
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• 6:41
  So go to the website pay.com.autgb to find out more.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: But before we get into that all Josh, mate, elevate us mate. Tell us a little bit about that. Tell us a little bit about the ways you help builders, how you're helping them
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: currently, services,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: how in-depth you go with them. Yeah. That sort of stuff mate.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Mate, I can basically tailor a package to what their needs are.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So some people will come to me and say, hey, I just need an estimate just off industry rates, which I'll provide to them. Yeah. But then you get other builders where I do end to end. So starting with like a premium sales estimate. So I know that the numbers are gonna stack a little bit.
• 7:23
  Yeah. Then obviously from there, all the documentation comes through. I'll go out to procure it for them, bring it back in scopes through, trade negotiations with suppliers. And then from there, if it all stacks up and we're good to go, I'll do a production estimate and then I'll generally, this is done in their own software. So then I'll do all their POS variations
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: in software.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So using all their data. So you're not, they're not having to double and triple handle. Yeah. So I'm helping with that sort of stuff with a fair few builders and mate, to be honest, it's just really rewarding to be able to help builders know that they can sleep at night because they know what the numbers are. And that's where, you know, as we talked out the back, the industry at the moment, there's a lot of uncertainty.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: just trying to mitigate that risk until hopefully it all blows over.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, mate, yesterday I mentioned too, I had John Davis from MMC Modular on, and I asked him what makes a good builder. And the gentleman I said to you is one of the most revered people in modular construction, Amazing guy brought steel over to America, frame. And you know, his answer was really basic. And at first I was a bit like, oh, I don't know if I expected more.
• 8:33
  Yep. But some of the most logical things that people say, I think most logical people are actually the smartest. So like Elon Musk saying, Hey, you're gonna, instead of going, you know, competing with traffic, why don't you just go under LA? So we built a tunnel under LA. Very logical.
• 8:48
  Just do the thing. He said to me, a good builder is one that knows its costs. A 100%. And I was like, and then, and then I sound like that Chinese lady off the deck. And then, and then in my head, and I didn't do it on the podcast.
• 9:00
  Love the bloke. Absolutely. And I'm not making fun of it, but when you, when you break it all down, it's quite profitable.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: It's quite simple.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: It's quite simple, isn't it? Because you can't be a good builder if you're not making money.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's the reality is everyone's in it to make money.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You don't wanna do it for free. Absolutely.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: The thing that has always stuck with me with a builder that
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I used to work for was estimating is the heart of the business, because if that is going really well, generally the rest of the business is going really well. Whereas if it's going poorly, it can really mess up and have a massive flow on effect. So to know your numbers is huge.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. Well, what are some of the biggest, maybe we're gonna start getting into some territory, which is gonna go into the current situation, but I was actually referring to past situations in a way that we can't avoid this. But what are some of the biggest things that are tripping builders up right now, Josh? One, like not knowing the costs.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: If you don't know your costs, then you're already behind April and you play catch up. And a lot of the time you can't catch up. Just can't do it. But I think a lot of the builders, especially the smaller ones, they try and do too much themselves. They're trying to
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: do too much And
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: instead of actually outsourcing or get someone in that is specializing in estimating, they try and do it themselves. And then from there, they're not actually, I don't know where their numbers are actually sitting. They're using outdated rates. They're using outdated square meter rates, which you can't do. And also it's forever changing.
• 10:27
  So we we will. But yeah, so I just feel like they try and wear too many hats.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm with you, Josh.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Because you know, they're good at building houses.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: You know, go and do that. Get someone that can help you and make sure that your numbers are actually stacking up. So you know that you are making gonna make money out of it. Yeah. Because, yeah, as I said, like, that's where they're all in it to make money.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I'm a 100% with you, Josh. It's part of the reason we started The Good Builder, we chatted out at the back too, you know? Because it was like, you see all these small builders and it's like the craftsmanship and the quality of it, there's no doubt builders are great. We've got good builders in Australia.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: We really do.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: We have great builders. If you talk about a good physical product builder, we've good builders.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: The business side of building. So that sort of stuff that they, they, trip up on on. And I completely agree with you. You know, when I say my agency, for example, when we used to pick up work from builders, they were trying to do marketing. They're doing their social media posts.
• 11:21
  Builder doing their own social media posts. They're doing their Google ads and Facebook ads. And I'm like, who are you? You're an absolute monster. Love that you're having a shot, but man, you're gonna kill yourself.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing like-
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: But you can kill yourself on costs more than a And 100
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: that's the thing, like wearing too many hats, they're trying to do, like they're not giving a 100% to anything. They're giving 15% to each one. In the end, it's only gonna cost them in the long run. You know what I mean? So if they can outsource it or get someone in that actually could specialize in that because it's gonna pay off.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: That's what I'd love to do. I'd love to do a few case studies. This is what I'd like to do. I'd like to do some case studies on if builders went and implemented some certain things, maybe outsource estimating, surface protection, Good Guys,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: for example.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I know they're partners of ours and giving them a shameless plug, and then see what is the result at the end of the day by actually setting your foundations right and protecting yourself from the beginning like you do when you're setting up the cost of a home,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: estimating a home maybe. Yes. Yeah. Set You've the foundations early. Yeah.
• 12:26
  And if you do that and your processes, then you can actually grow and do everything properly.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We're talking about growth and doing things properly. We did mention Mel and Dan from Hodando Homes, relatively new franchisees for the wonderful Hodondo Homes brand, as I just said. You're working a bit with them. What kind of just to give an example, what kind of stuff are you doing for them if you don't mind talking
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: about them
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and helping them out
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: with them?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're a franchise builder. They are. This is the other interesting thing for me, and I I'm bigger I'm big for franchise builders, I worked for one. I think that, as I said about builders, I think builders, the business side
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: of things aren't so franchises help them. Yes.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Correct. So it's interesting for me, you know, franchise builders still jump over to estimating. Think about a mom and dad builder, like you said, who doesn't have any of the system support or marketing or anything as well. It's freaking like
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. It is. Yeah. But yeah. Sorry.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: No. So but yeah. Jazamelle just reached out through one of my Instagram and we had a chat and went and met with them. And basically we swapped them over in their software to starters because the other one was really clunky. So now it's an all in one.
• 13:36
  So you can do scheduling, you do all your purchases, variations, the whole box dice out of there, document control. So we set that up for them. And again, dads was they would try and do too much themselves. And in dad's own words, like he wasn't able to sleep purely because he didn't know where the numbers were sitting.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So we've gone in there and we've- he's a smart guy too.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: He is very, very smart. We've gone in there. We've set up their systems. Now we've got a really good procedure in place. So starts at doing a sales estimate for them.
• 14:04
  And then, you know, he'll go to the client and they will say yes or no. Then we get the documentation. I go through one of his email addresses. Yep. And send out to all these trades and supplies, procure it, do all the purchase orders, send them all out.
• 14:18
  And then his supervisor will schedule it. And then any variations that come through, I jump in and fix them up for him and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: yeah, there I you can see why he can sleep apart.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Well, hopefully. He's yeah. Which is really good and they're really appreciative. That is so cool. So, it's that sort of stuff.
• 14:34
  As I said before, I really I like helping good people.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And they're a perfect example. Yeah. I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: know. And it really hits home, know, because I've spent a bit of time with them. And they are well supported by Hertunde Herns as well. They're a good franchise group. You can just see like there's still so much that a builder handles.
• 14:54
  And I just keep coming back to that, I think thing that John Davis said keeps popping into my head, a good builder is a builder that knows its cost and its profit. Correct. You know, it just keeps coming back to that. Yep. And that should be the number one focus of the thing that you should outsource or focus on.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because as I said, if you don't know your numbers, you're flying blind and you're just hoping that you get to the end of the job and you made money. So it's a massive risk. If you can mitigate that risk really early and yeah, you're gonna be able to sleep at night
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and know
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that, you know, you're gonna be, let's fight another day.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Talking about mitigating risks. Now let's get into what's going on in the world today, Josh. There's plenty. You had some very, very spicy and interesting little comments back there. I don't know how much you wanna share.
• 15:43
  You can share as much as you want. You've been such a legend. Thank you so
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: much for
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: opening up about this because I put it up on a few social media platforms. No one's really opened up about it. And and, you know, don't tell because it's, you know, data and stuff. But what's going on out there now, Josh, in the last two weeks?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Or Last two weeks. And I think that a lot of can attest to it. The amount of emails coming through with price rises, majority of them are fuel levies, concrete's going up again. Obviously you've mentioned some PVC pipes going up again. One of my other builders, you know, they're looking at $20.15, $20 per house and they can't go back to their clients and say, oh, Hey, here's a variation.
• 16:23
  It's heartbreaking, man. So they've got to fulfill that. It's just basically, got COVID two point zero in that regard. And as we know during COVID all these prices went through the roof. None of it come back down.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That was your question at the back. You were like, Hey Az, I wonder what will happen post this. Yeah. Will it normalize?
• 16:41
  Yeah. Normalize? Yeah. Is there a normal anymore?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the thing that is good on the suppliers part, they've actually named it like a temporary fuel levy or temporary.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that's what you're seeing.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I don't see this stuff guys. That's why we got Josh. Josh is across all his staff and all's. That's so cool.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you, mate. Man, I reckon I've had forty, fifty emails over the last eight to ten days with that sort of stuff. So yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see if those costs come back out or if they stay in, because in the end, if they stay in just makes the price of building even higher, makes it harder for people to build. And in the end, it's just going to impact the industry more than it should.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you kind of, you know, and what I, and you proved your point actually in the beginning of the podcast, you said, do you just really like helping people out in the back there? You talked about builders, but you talked about the normal Aussie journey. Yeah. Like the everyday Aussie trying to buy a home now.
• 17:37
  Yeah. Like we're getting squeezed everywhere. You were saying from every direction. I totally agree.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Where does it, Hell. Where does it end? Where does it end? But we don't know. And that's the problem.
• 17:49
  Know, in generations you're gonna find it even harder to build. So, it's just a yeah, it's a very precarious position we're in at the moment. And I hope that it passes really soon and it goes back to some sort of normality. Yeah. Because, yeah, it's quite scary.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What would be your biggest piece of advice for any builder kind of going through or any builder out there right now? Look. There is so much out there on social. There is so much.
• 18:17
  You talked about that toast bite on X.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yep. Like, what what would it be?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I I look. I'm not just tooting your own trumpet. Yep. And I've had a few comments as I said out in the from people saying I'm being very agreeing on this podcast and I have two people's trumpet. Yes, I do sometimes because sometimes they pay me to be on it.
• 18:35
  Yeah. This is not a paid podcast and this is genuine. My thoughts, my experience with Josh, you know, and I think I definitely should start having a look at an estimated surface number one, as a first point of call
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to do. Well, it's about removing the risk, not just moving it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: That's what you do.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: And if you can sort of mitigate that risk early, and I think now is a time that no supplier and trade relationships that you've built are going to come in really handy. Yeah. Because yeah, I just feel like there's going to be a tipping point and it's going to become just really hard to build a house for the number that they've used to be. It really is. It's just going to be very, very hard.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Well, what about the all, all the smaller builders out there that are on fixed price contracts? What happens there, Josh? I know you're not a lawyer, but you mentioned it out the back. What about all this stuff that's coming through?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Mate, and that's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: what- What do
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: you do? What I'd do, mate, I'd get on the front foot, start ringing trade suppliers, seeing how we can share the costs maybe. And then from there, it's just trying to monitor it as much as possible. And unfortunately it's, they said like it's fixed price contracts. So the builders have nearly got to wear it, which is just gonna take away from their bottom line.
• 19:51
  Yeah. No. It makes it really hard for a builder to stay afloat when, you know, they're burning through cash.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It really does. And there was an accountant actually on a, I think it was Instagram this morning calling that out, actually calling exactly how he said, he said, and same sort of thing that he said out the back, said, when you COVID two point zero, he's not in the construction. He's just
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: a tax accountant.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Like he's not a builder. He just put it out there. It was really interesting for me because you know, for someone to, obviously it's a big issue for someone to highlight. You will see the most insolvencies issue that you'll see, it'll be a record
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: because of what's going on. Unfortunately, I sort of agree with him. Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I do too, unfortunately too.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think that it's gonna be very hard for them to continue on if they're gonna have to take all these hits. So mate, fingers crossed it blows over relatively quick and we can get back to some sort of normality and the prices start coming down and those builds that they've got on the ground, they don't have to take that massive hit on their bottom line.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you don't mind me asking Josh, what are materials that are getting hit the biggest that you're seeing come through your builders at the moment?
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: It's material wise, I feel like it's not so much material wise. It's more the fuel side of things. Yeah. Yeah. You know, concrete pumps.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: one come through yesterday. They want an extra $30 an hour. Wow. For it. So it's just those sorts of things.
• 21:17
  Anything powered. Anything powered and anything gets delivered. You
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: said that
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: everything Everything gets delivered.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Oh no. You were like, anything that doesn't come on a truck won't be affected. And I sat there and I went, what doesn't come on a truck?
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: A 100%. Yeah. So, you know, I've had stuff from frame trust suppliers say, Hey, we can't hold that price because they obviously, a lot of them outsource their transport and they're just getting passed on with the cost. And then they got to pass it on to the builder, but then the builder can't actually go and pass it on to anyone. So the builder, unfortunately cops the brunt of it, which is really disappointing.
• 21:47
  Yeah. It really is. But I said, like, it'd be interesting to see if it comes back out. Yeah. Because later on, well,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: mate, as we said, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, we're going to have you back on for few, I reckon. Yeah. Yeah. We'll start doing a a bit with Josh here, and I think you need to keep our eye on this stuff. Absolutely great to have you.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, mate. Would be more
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: than happy Doing stuff together. Yeah. Well, mate, the other thing we'll get off that topic. It's not depressing for me. I don't know what it is.
• 22:13
  I'm just so I'm kind of I know I'm going off on tangent, Josh, but I'm kind of just over the world sometimes. You look at it and you're just like, what what is the world doing? What are we doing? The government, the albinisi, all the guys, it just seems like, you know, hate speech laws, all these things. World is changing so rapidly.
• 22:31
  And I feel like I'm just no longer part of it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Mate. Unfortunately. It's yeah. As we said, like growing up when we grew up, it's a shadow of what that is. And I just feel like it's, as I said before, think it's like a lot of it's orchestrated.
• 22:47
  Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. It might be controversial, but yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I hope it too.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: You can you can say that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Mate, I reckon we'll do a whole episode on that. We'll come back in for a cohost episode, then we'll do a we'll do a I reckon we need a bit of information around that sort of stuff. Yep. Sure. But anyway, yeah, I'll get off that topic.
• 23:05
  You you said that one of the other things that said, the new blood coming through in Estimating. Yep. What are you sort of seeing out there with the new blood?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Mate, so I still get phone calls weekly from recruitment agents looking for someone, and there there's just no pathway for new estimators. Really? Yeah. There's no, no real
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: It's bit like building, isn't Like a builder, really?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's no real pathway. Like you can, the guys that generally do it will be guys that have been on the tools that wanna get off-site.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Then again, they've got to take bit of a pay cut to come back in. Yeah. Yeah. But I just feel like there's, yeah, there's not really any pathway for new estimators coming into it. Like there's no real studying you can do.
• 23:46
  I can do your cert four, or you can do your estimating,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: but
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: without someone having given you a go and actually learning on the job, which I was very fortunate that I got my start. You never really there's nowhere to get No, do you go?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Fascinating. How do
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: do the industry? And the thing is with the industry the way it is and how busy it is, builders need people that are coming and they can hit the ground running and be self sufficient. And everyone's so time poor that, you know, the senior and the estimating managers haven't really got the time to try and train people. And train them properly. Yeah.
• 24:21
  I feel like the guys, the newer, like the younger blood, these are the guys that haven't developed those poor bad habits. Yeah. So you can actually teach them properly.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I just feel like there's, you know, the people are so busy that they just haven't got the time to actually do so. Yeah. Wow. So Mate.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Well, have you ever thought about starting an Elevate Estimating Training Academy, mate?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Mate, it's funny you say that because my wife actually raised that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Look, it's really interesting. Like the more we do The Good Builder, and as you said, you're gonna see more of Josh on here and we'll talk more, but the more I do it, man, the more this industry is under supported, no estimating real courses. That's why I put out something about CPD yesterday, like continual learning. And there's this group that we're trying to partner with and promote them to go, hey, you can go on, you know, let's continue your learning pathways. But there but as you said, there's not really dedicated ones at all to like such a specific and important position like estimating.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And I reckon
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you should do it, man.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I'd love to do that.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: But what from the inside of the construction industry? Why isn't it built by the governments and the organizations that should be supporting our industry. But then when shit hits the fan, it's all on our industry. I understand. Yeah.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, mate. I just feel like there's no, like, I don't know about you, but have you ever heard of estimating courses or No.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Talked about in school.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Or even yeah. No. There's no talking about it in school. Like, man, I wanted to be an accountant. I just fell into it.
• 25:47
  I was just lucky.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And there's people that have done the same, but you know, for me to be still getting phone calls about, you know, roles, he just says that there's, there's not a lot around and mate, unfortunately builders, they will unfortunately have to sort of jump at the candidate, and pay well and truly over what they probably should be to actual, to get someone in the seat.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And for a poor quality candidate that could potentially fuck up their entire business very quickly.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: As I said, mate, estimating is the heart of
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the business. It is.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: And if that goes wrong, then you know, there's no money coming in. So it can be very, yeah, can be very costly.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Across the board, we're seeing this age of every sort of position in building any type of role. Yep. It just seems to be no pathway whatsoever. But then it's such reliant. Our country is so reliant on this industry.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: So that's the thing like, you've got CAs, for example, there's actually, you go to uni to do that sort of stuff. There's no sort of university degree to do estimating. You know what I mean? Which is crazy considering how important it is to the industry.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Well, man, I think I'm dead set on starting the elevator. Not me, but I'm not sure how to do it. Like, I'll I'll I'll fucking do websites. I can't build a house. These guys do that, but I can build a website for you.
• 27:09
  I'll build a website. Do an academy, mate. I reckon you should put up some training videos. Like you said, for helping the industry, for producing my thing is that I think if we if like you you you do with your estimating. Right?
• 27:21
  If we can nip all these things in the bottom early on. Yep. Like, get best better estimators coming through. Yep. Get better brickies coming through or whatever, you know, just better people coming through.
• 27:31
  In the end, the reputation in the industry is so much better. It is. And we're just a better industry.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I totally agree,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I love your thinking, man.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, mate, I can't take credit for it. That was a 100% my wife. She's the brains behind everything, mate.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. Same. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:47
  Yeah. Do it, mate.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that that's I mean, it's definitely something that's been in the back of my mind.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's what you're saying out there. Just
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mate, that's I I shouldn't be getting phone calls. You know, if there's people out there that, you know, are coming through.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Busy enough for 56 builders anyway.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. We've been on mate, but it's yeah. It's that's a lot. I just like helping people.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Plain
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and simple. It's just that's the crux of it. Watch this space.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Reckon you never know what's gonna happen here. Like, you know, as I said, as I get to know you and we know each other a bit now and, you know, I know a lot of people in the industry that know you and as we said, small industry.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Is very small.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: You have a name in the industry, you've got a fucking great name, you know? So it'd be really cool to see that come to life. But I I think, you know, before that, if there are any builders out there that don't have doing their own SME, check it out further.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Happy to help or
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I would, man.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: As little or as much as you want.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And we'll put all we'll put the links below for your information. I'm not trying to push Josh too much, but I I do. You know, I I am very passionate about, you know, protecting builders.
• 28:46
  I would hate to see what happened over COVID and, like, we're gonna put out this report, as I said, Josh, and we're predicting more insolvencies. Yep. And that breaks my heart. Like, I don't wanna put that shit out to the market, but it's like, this is the reality of what we're facing.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: It is. And mate, the really sad thing about it is, you know, behind every building company, you've got families. Oh. You know what I mean? You've got kids, you've got wives, you've got all that sort of stuff.
• 29:10
  And unfortunately they're the ones that suffer. Having two young kids myself, yeah, that'd be heartbreaking. It'd be heartbreaking. Wouldn't it? Yeah.
• 29:20
  Protect yourself.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Protect. Yeah, a 100% protect yourself. Know your costs.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: You have to, you have to know your costs just so you know where you're at. And if you need to go into some damage control at some stage during the build, then you're well prepared to be able to do so. Instead of getting to the end and going, woah, we've made that up or we've paid to actually build this house.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, I've done that before. Remember how I told you I was involved in Avondale Homes? This is sprung to mind. I don't know why I had never really talked about this before, but many a time, our first year, because I'm on construction marketing by trade, you did a very good job of getting leads.
• 29:51
  We'll get my 300 a month. We'll shush it. Mate, we didn't make a cent. Yeah. I think I burned $250 in marketing in a year and got nothing in return.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Didn't have a good estimator. No.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Should have had something back. Sorry about that. Good luck in the future. I'm out now. Think so, Josh.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I think so. But mate,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I just got one more question now. You know, we're called The Good Builder. Yep. And mate, yeah, we've been talking for a while. I love him, mate.
• 30:16
  I think you're a fucking weapon. But in your eyes, what do you think makes a good builder?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: One, they know their numbers. Yep. Made, to be honest, one of good builder is someone that leaves their ego at the door and realizes that there's people out there that are better than them at particular parts. And they're open to those ideas coming into the door and trying to make their business better. Like you bring someone in from a different company in a construction manager role, they only come with IP and stuff that can only make your company better.
• 30:43
  People are good builder to me is someone that takes them on board and leaves that ego.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: That was interesting, man. Yeah. That was very cool. That was probably, that is the most interesting answer we've ever had. I do agree.
• 30:57
  I don't know if you've ever read the book and I've never said this on a podcast. Have you ever read the book? Because I'm not one of those guys. But if you've ever read the book by Ryan Holiday, Ego is the Enemy, it's all stoic philosophy. Yep.
• 31:07
  One of my favorite books and it teaches you how to be a good person. Yep. And it said to be a good person and continually learn, ego is the enemy. Let's go over it. And it doesn't teach you, but it kind of takes you through the lessons of stoke philosophy.
• 31:20
  How do tell I try on with my life? I fucking love what you said. I believe it.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man. I believe it is Might might be a little bit cont might be
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: bit controversial, but There's so many parts to it, isn't there, Josh?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Like There is I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I think that's a big part, a massive part to it because anyway, I could go too deep with this, but everything has a ripple effect. Yeah. So your mindset has a ripple effect. Yeah. If you go, okay, I'm good at this.
• 31:41
  I'm not good at that. Yep. I walk into my business. I'm gonna get someone better.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have a better business. 100 You're gonna be a good builder. Yeah. I know. It's it there's so many I love what you said, and I totally agree.
• 31:51
  And when you said it, that's why I was like because
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, my favorite book in the whole world. And that's for the pub, you know, with Daz Potondo.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He knows that he's good estimate. No ego.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: He's just a smart Zero ego.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: If you ever heard of what he's done in business, probably have.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yep. Very good. What happened? Yep. Yep.
• 32:07
  So People like that that realize that there's better people out there.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And they go
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and get them.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Great example. Yeah. Well, Dan and Mel, actually, let's get you on and let's talk about your estimating business and get Josh on as well.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. 100%. Let's talk.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: We'll do a bit of a big podcast around that. But Josh, mate, thank you so much. It was great spending time with you. Appreciate it. As I said, you guys out there are gonna be seeing a lot more of Josh on the pod, and we'll be doing a bunch of things.
• 32:31
  So thank you, man. Pleasure. Thanks, Cool. Appreciate it.