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Does a Partner's Sadness Cast a Shadow on Your Joy Over Time? · The Virtual Couch

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So this past weekend, I flew back east and I spoke at a funeral for an uncle of mine in Tennessee.
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And rest in peace, Uncle Donnie, because you will absolutely be missed.
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But it was also a wonderful opportunity to reconnect with my Tennessee kinfolk.
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And even though I was only there for a couple of days, I did start saying things
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like fixin' to and y'all.
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And I felt like I was able to channel my old accent and refer to my very own
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wife, who wasn't there but was there through FaceTime, as weendy.
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And I reckoned things and stink bugs were sighted and a stuffed possum was viewed.
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And when talking about my waking up to narcissism, it was recommended that I
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use the phrase that the rooster thinks that the sun comes up just to hear him
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crow. And I didn't give that one enough justice.
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But on one simple exchange with my Aunt Pam, whose husband, my Uncle Leon,
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my father's twin brother, who happened to be a professional storyteller,
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I might add, was showing me a picture of her and my Uncle Leon.
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And she said that she felt like over time, they pert
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near started to look like brother and sister to which
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admittedly i tried to get the eye of my almost 20 year old son jake
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so that i could have some validation that i was going to pass on that
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wide open shot but only to say that you often
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hear that romantic partners over time tend to become similar in several ways
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and according to an article from no more than a day or two ago called can an
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unhappy partner erode your happiness over time with a subtitle of New Research
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Explores Well-Being Contagion Between Partners by Dr.
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Gwendolyn Seidemann, romantic partners tend to have similar attitudes,
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personality traits, and even similar levels of physical attractiveness.
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Yes, that was a little bit of a stretch of an opening, but it's what came to
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mind. But she also said that they were also similar in how happy they are.
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Which brings up the question, is this just a case of June bugs of a feather flocking together?
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Meaning that if If happy people are attracted to other happy people and that
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misery is something that perhaps truly does love company and therefore can be
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the tie that binds the relationship.
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So we're going to talk about overall what kind of an influence do you have with
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your partner and especially what's that influence over your partner's happiness.
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We're going to talk about that and so much more coming up on today's episode of The Virtual Couch.
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Music.
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Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode 405 of The Virtual Couch. I'm your host.
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That's what I am. I'm your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family
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therapist, certified mindful habit coach, and host of the Waking Up to Narcissism
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podcast, premium edition, Love ADHD, Murder on the Couch, The Mind,
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the Mirror, and Me, and just loving all things podcast.
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Can't lie. And I hope that you are having an amazing, wonderful holiday season.
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And we're going to talk today about the influence that we have on other people,
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especially our partner.
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And this This is a little bit ironic because there's a couple's book about acceptance
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and commitment therapy, which is my favorite.
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And it's called Act With Love by Russ Harris, one of my favorite acceptance
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and commitment therapy authors.
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And there is a part in the book where he talks about the concept of influence.
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Because I will go big with we can't have love and control in an adult relationship, one or the other.
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But I like when he talks about this concept of influence. Because often when
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we're just over here being and doing and finding ourselves and not needing validation
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and becoming differentiated and all those wonderful things, then we still want
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to have these shared experiences with our partner.
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And so in the Act With Love book, it does talk about influence.
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I have a little bit of an episode on that that's recorded for another day and
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where we're going to talk about the acceptance and commitment therapy couples model.
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We're going to talk about the four pillars based off of Sue Johnson's emotionally focused therapy.
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And we're going to talk about David Schnarch's The Crucible approach.
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There are so many things that I want to get to that I've been writing about
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there. So just a little sneak preview. That'll be all things marriage.
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But today, speaking of marriage, sign up for the newsletter because the updated
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Magnetic Marriage course is pretty phenomenal. And it's that old story.
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It's so close. It's so close. But I promise if you sign up for the newsletter, you will find out.
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You'll be one of the first people to know when it actually hits the ground and
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the people that are going to get there first are going to have a little bit
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of an incentive to do so. We'll put it that way.
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So back to this article by Dr. Gwendolyn Seidemann.
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The article is called, Can an Unhappy Partner Erode Your Happiness Over Time?
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Because I think that's the bigger question, that if you have one person who
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it seems like is more optimistic and just more doing, maybe even doing their
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own work, their own mental health work,
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they're going to therapy, they're reading the self-help books,
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and then you've got another partner that is finding themselves more and more
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frustrated or down or sad or feels like they lack control as their kids get
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older or they are losing their sense of purpose,
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then does that overly kind and optimistic person bring the other person up from
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the depths and then they ride off into the sunset together?
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Or does the person that is feeling overwhelmed and negative,
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maybe more critical, do they pull that person that is optimistic down into their level of happiness?
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Which brings up the question, as if birds of a feather flock together,
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are happy people attracted to other happy people?
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And does misery truly love company? And then that becomes the tie that binds the relationship.
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But Dr. Gwendolyn shares that research has shown that this similarity tends
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to increase over time, whatever that similarity is, meaning that people have
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the potential to grow even happier together or sadder or angrier.
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And this could be because both people in the relationship experience similar
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life events and that affects their happiness.
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But what researchers started to look at was another very intriguing possibility
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that partners could have more of an influence on each other and their levels of happiness.
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Meaning, pretty simply put, that happiness or unhappiness could be contagious.
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And more importantly, if that is the case, which partner in the relationship
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is more likely to influence the other? And is that influence going to be for good or not?
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Not as good. New research by Olga Strovra.
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That's take five. I don't know how many of these have been edited out.
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We'll try another one. New research by Olga Strovra and William Chopik,
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published in the journal Social, Psychological, and Personality Science,
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explores well-being contagion within couples.
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And I think it's pretty important to note the word contagion here refers to
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the phenomenon where emotional states, in this case, well-being,
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are transferred or spread from one person to another.
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Kind of similar to how a biological contagion, like a virus,
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can be passed between individuals.
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An emotional contagion suggests that feelings or moods can also be caught or
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influenced by those that we interact with, especially in close relationships
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like romantic partnerships.
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So in this context, well-being contagion means the transmission or spread of
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well-being or happiness, and as we're going to keep talking about,
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potentially unhappiness between partners in a couple's relationship.
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Relationship so how how do partners influence
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each other's happiness have you ever heard of somebody being a
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bucket dipper as opposed to a bucket filler
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or how about the concept of an emotional vampire which is one of my favorites
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not even looking for a laugh with that because i know it's a metaphorical term
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that sometimes people use to describe a person who tends to be a drain on the
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emotional energy of others you know they in essence suck the fun or suck the
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life out out of another person or an entire situation.
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So an emotional vampire in this context might be somebody who either consciously
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or unconsciously dominates interactions with negative emotions,
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complaints, pessimism, or any kind of drama.
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And that kind of behavior can have a significant impact on the emotional state
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of their partner or those around them.
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So just as happiness or well-being can be contagious in a relationship,
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then you can start to see where negativity and unhappiness
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can be as well because if you have this we'll
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do a quick tangent here but if if you're in a relationship where one
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partner is more of this bucket dipper or an emotional vampire
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you might find that there is the negative emotional
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influence you know that emotional vampire often imposes their negative feelings
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and moods on their partner which leads to a decrease in the partner's overall
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happiness and satisfaction and there is a a tangible energy drain because interactions
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with this person playing the role as an emotional vampire can can leave the
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other person feeling exhausted,
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less enthusiastic about activities than they usually enjoy because they already
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start to create this relationship or relational frame that when they bring up
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something, it's going to be met with a, here are all the negative things about
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that activity or that person or whatever the event is.
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And it really does lead to this imbalance in emotional exchange because when
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you have one person that is more emotionally draining, they require a lot of emotional support.
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They rarely, if ever, reciprocate. So that starts to feel really one-sided so
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that the one person in the relationship starts to lose their sense of self and
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they start to then feel like their job is to manage the emotions of the emotional vampire.
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And it can absolutely have an impact on things like fun and enjoyment because
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the bucket dipper, the emotional vampire.
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Most likely is going to consistently bring down the mood in situations that
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are meant to be be enjoyable or relaxing, literally kind of sucking that fun out of these moments.
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Probably not literal, but figuratively sucking the fun out of those moments.
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And normally, it would be the goal then to explore the behaviors that have led
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to somebody expressing those life-sucking behaviors.
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You know, well, let's go back and let's understand the reasons behind such behavior.
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Is it personality traits? Is their past experiences, their current stressors? Is it their childhood?
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And can we use those to address the issues and maybe improve the relationship's
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health? Most likely, yes.
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The couples therapist in me wants to say that, yeah, you can absolutely do that.
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But then the challenge can be that it does take two to tango while we're on the cliched path today.
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It actually reminds me, I'll tell you very quickly, I'm a story about,
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we'll call her Emily, somebody I worked with a while ago.
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She was very smart. She was very good at her job, but she had a hard time keeping friends.
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Making them was not so bad, keeping them definitely a challenge.
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And she came to me very confused, upset, wanting to know why did she always feel so alone?
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And the more that we started talking about it, digging into what was going on
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with her, we found out that she had a habit of always just talking about the
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bad stuff, where she would talk about nice things and it was very complimentary.
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But then we started to notice that when somebody came into her orbit,
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then it was all about the negative things.
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She would complain about something or tell people how hard her life was compared
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to theirs and I'm relating this story in the context of the therapy setting
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I was very grateful that I was able to see these patterns over weeks and months
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play out because that was how we were able to get to the point where she recognized
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those as well as I said tell me more talk about that where's that come from.
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And at first, I thought she was more or less just bending, just kind of getting things off her chest.
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But the more we talked, the clearer it became that she started to rely on her
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problems to get noticed.
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Because we all want to be seen. We all want to be heard.
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And she started to feel like if she wasn't talking about her struggles,
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then nobody would pay attention to her.
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And we were able to trace that back to that was the way that people felt seen
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and heard in her family dynamic growing up.
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And that was where there was the real eye-opener for her.
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Because she started to see that she would she would bring
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somebody into her world positively and then
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just negative and act like nobody else could really understand her
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or what her experience was and that almost felt like this
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subconscious mission and it actually was pushing people away and it was making
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it really tough for others to be around her because it was very draining so
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we worked on that and it took time and we focused on her being very curious
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and noticing her discomfort and not trying to get rid of that discomfort and
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this is one of those that it was was difficult, but she really put in the effort.
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And I get to say one of those happily ever after things started to change and
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people respond a little bit differently, but more, she started finding herself
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around more people that were in essence,
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the people that probably weren't going to try to manage her emotions or anxiety,
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or they would see through her in the past.
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And people started to actually like to hang out with her and not just because
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they felt sorry, because they genuinely liked being around her.
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And she over time liked being around herself.
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She was somebody that now could find connection, but it took a lot of work.
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There's something about her story that it's more of a reminder of how the way
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that we talk and interact and the things that we talk about,
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they really do shape our relationships.
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And I think that's gonna go into play more in the study that we're talking about,
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that by being more aware and making these changes, she was able to turn things around for herself.
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It was a her thing, it really was. It was awesome to see, and that really helped her show up different.
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Okay, I couldn't help myself. I did take a break. I came back to the sun a different time.
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And I did take the script, the transcript up to this point.
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I had a thought during a session, and I just plugged it into ChatGPT because
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I'm talking about going back to Tennessee.
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And I said, can you now tell Emily stories if I were speaking to a group of
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non-educated backwoods hillbilly folk who use as many southern phrases as possible
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whenever they speak, and they use poor grammar as well?
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ChatGPT, here's where it does not let you down. So here we go.
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All right, y'all, gather around and let me spin a yarn about a gal named Emily.
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Now, Emily, bless her heart, she was sharper than a tack, but couldn't seem
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to make no friends stick around.
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She come to me one day, madder than a wet hen, wondering why she was always
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lonesome as a pine tree on a mountaintop.
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When we got to John, and it dawned on us quicker than a hiccup,
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Emily had a habit of yammering about all her troubles.
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If she weren't complaining, she was as quiet as a church mouse.
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She thought her woes were her ticket to folks paying her any mind.
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At first, I reckoned she was just spilling her beans, but it turned out complaining
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was her way of fishing for attention.
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She felt if she wasn't bellyaching, uh, shit.
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If she wasn't bellyaching, she'd be about as noticeable as a needle in a haystack.
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When she cottoned on to this, her eyes got as big as saucers.
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She realized her constant griping and saying nobody could walk a mile in her
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shoes was shooing folks away faster than cats at a dogfight.
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It was plum tuckering out anybody around her.
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So we rolled up our sleeves and got down to brass tacks. We worked on getting
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her to talk about something other than her hard knocks.
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It was tougher than trying to nail jelly to a wall. But Emily,
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she's tough as nails, I'll tell you.
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And lo and behold, things started to change. Folks began to warm up to her,
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not because they pitied her, because they genuinely took a shine to her.
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She wasn't just the gal who always cried the blues anymore.
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She became someone they liked having around, like sweet tea on a hot day.
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So telling you all about Emily's, like reminding ourselves how our chit-chat
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and what we chin-wag about can paint the barn of our friendships.
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By switching gears and mixing it up, Emily turned her boat around in the creek. freak.
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She's living proof that a little change can make a big old difference.
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Now, ain't that something?
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Okay, so back to the research by Dr. Gwendolyn Seideman.
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And she said that moods do tend to be contagious and that there have been numerous
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studies on depression that show that depressive states can then be contagious between people.
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And this is especially likely to occur in couples whose day-to-day experiences
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become very intertwined, which I think that we saw a lot of that during the
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pandemic when everybody was shut in together, husband, wife,
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or spouse, spouse, spouse, and then kids as well.
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And then one study found that on days when one partner reported a poor mood, so did the other.
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And I don't know if I would call this the power of persuasion or self-fulfilling
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prophecy, but one of the things that I often hear from couples that I personally
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work with is something that I believe I learned from Dr.
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Kevin Skinner long ago when I went through his betrayal trauma certification.
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But I feel like the memory I have is him saying that, hey, only one person in
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the relationship can have a bad day at a time.
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And again, I could have completely confabulated that entire memory,
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but the concept has worked out in my own relationship and then people that I've
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worked with where if one person is particularly down, then I've got this.
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Then I will shine through and then vice versa, where there's one person to pick
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things up, pick up the slack for the other person.
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But from this research, back to that concept that this one study found that
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on days when one partner reported poor mood, so did the other.
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And I realize even as I'm saying this out loud, as a marriage therapist,
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as somebody that does, you know, every way, I think we all have our ups and
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our downs, that it can, when you're really feeling down, and then this is where
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I go to my concept of your emotional baseline,
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that when everything is clicking and your your baseline of emotions are high,
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then it's not as difficult to deal with everything that's coming at you day to day.
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But when you do start to feel down for a lot of different reasons,
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and your baseline of emotions lowers, it can be really difficult to access the
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tools you need to just simply respond and show up in the day.
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And at times, that's when I think that people can really appreciate their partner
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who is stepping up for them in that moment.
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But I almost feel like Like if we continue on this emotional baseline concept
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that if the person gets too low, then they start to feel like,
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oh, I bet the person, my partner doesn't even really want to be here with me anyway.
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So it can be tricky. I know it's not a one size fits all.
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But then it goes to the which partner has more influence. Is it the happier
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partner or the less happy partner? This, this is the question.
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Because a lot of the research in psychology supports the notion that
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bad in general is stronger than good that
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we have this default to the negative the buddha brain
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talks about the brain is teflon for the positive and
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velcro for the negative that we hang on to these negative memories because that's
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a bit of a evolutionary survival skill because we think that if we just are
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thinking that everything is rainbows and unicorns that then we are not going
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to be paying attention when the woolly mammoth turns and rounds the corner and
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then stomps us or whatever woolly mammoths do,
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Some of the psychology, the research in psychology shows that,
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for example, people are much more upset about losing $20 than they are happy about gaining $20.
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And so then in studies of marital conflict, negative behaviors have a far bigger
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influence on satisfaction than positive behaviors do.
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And negative social interactions have a much larger influence on health and
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well-being than positive do.
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So this does start to suggest that the unhappy partner is more likely to influence
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the happy partner than vice versa.
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And let's dig into a little bit more of just the actual research itself.
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Stavovra and Chopik used data from two large long-term studies of couples.
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And the first study included a sample of over 18,000 couples who completed an
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annual survey for 37 years.
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And each year, both partners rated their level of life satisfaction on a 10-point scale.
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The results showed that the happier partner experienced a decrease in satisfaction
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over time, whereas the less happy partner held steady.
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And then by the end of the 37 years, the initially happier partner experienced
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on average a 2.2 point drop in satisfaction.
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And this change was so profound that by the end of the 37 years on average,
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the happier partner had become actually then the less happy partner.
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So they'd gone from the happier partner, took this drop, and then now actually
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went below the happy partner.
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And this is just my thoughts here, but I feel like at times I do see that because
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the person who is more enthusiastic or the person that is the eternal optimist, that if they cannot,
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if they almost feel like if they can't get their spouse to join them in trying
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to make the most of situations or being overly optimistic or positive or putting
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a positive spin on everything,
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that they start to feel like, man, I must be doing something really wrong.
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If I can't get this person I care about.
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Come along with me on this journey of, hey, things aren't so bad.
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And so it's that concept where we really, we're all looking through our own lens.
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And so it's hard to not think that it must be something that I am doing when
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there could be a version where you are doing all that you can be doing.
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And it really is the issue of your partner and not saying that with judgment.
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So then to test a broader set of variables relating to well-being,
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the researchers also also analyzed data from a Dutch sample of about 3,000 couples
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who were surveyed annually for 14 years.
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Respondents completed questionnaires assessing their life satisfaction,
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their positive emotions, their negative emotions, and their self-esteem.
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And for all four of these outcomes, the happier partner scores declined over
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time and the less happy partners improved somewhat.
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But they didn't exactly meet in the middle. The declines experienced by the
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happier partner were greater than the improvements experienced by the less happy partner.
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So a savvy reader, Dr. Gwendolyn says, may suspect that this occurred because
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the happiest people just tend to show the biggest declines.
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When you start really high, then there's a long way to fall.
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However, additional analysis revealed that this wasn't the case either in these
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in either of these studies.
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That this was not the case in either of these studies. It was the participants
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participants who were the least happy to start with who showed the largest declines in well-being.
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What does that say? That these studies both found that well-being is contagious.
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That a romantic partner's happiness level tends to become more and more similar
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over time, but the two partners meeting in somewhere in the middle.
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However, rather than the two partners meeting somewhere in the middle,
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the less happy partner had an outsized influence.
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And so with so many other their psychological phenomena, the good outweighs the bad.
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And the less happy partner tends to bring the happier partner down.
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What have we learned today? And I will end with a little bit of what I would call a special treat.
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I have a summary that just delivered a little bit off the cuff.
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And then I went back through and I took the transcript and then asked the folks
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at ChatGPT, the robots, the behind the scenes, to then countrify it up.
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And so then I'll end there. but the non-counterfeit version that I really like
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this concept or just the awareness of an emotional contagion in relationships.
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Because we talked today about how the negative person, that the positive person
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declines more and meets that negative person a little bit more of where they're at.
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But I think that if we are aware of that contagion in relationships,
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the emotional contagion and we can start to differentiate.
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So the positive person continuing to be them because that is a them issue.
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If they find themselves starting to play small so that others around them will not feel less secure,
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it's part of that Marianne Williamson poem that I'm tempted to read again right
22:45
now, but you are learning that everything is an opportunity for you to self-confront and grow.
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And it can be scary to differentiate from a partner who
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is starting to feel down but that might
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be where they operate from and not
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anything that is because of you but because of their own childhood
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abandonment attachment nature nurture dna all
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those things that that make that their base to operate from so that doesn't
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mean that anything is wrong with you for continuing to operate from this place
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where you feel like you're being more you authentic being more authentic being
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more positive and that isn't so that you will bring your partner up with you,
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but so that you will be living your very best life.
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And then if there were any, if there was a chance to then help raise your couple's
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emotional baseline, then it would be coming from a place where your own baseline is high.
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And I talked about Emily's story, the person who struggled to maintain close
23:41
relationships because there were constant negativity and complaints.
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And I shared that story because it's very real, but it does show that you need
23:47
to be intentional about the work that you're doing.
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That wasn't something where she just listened to a podcast or read a book and
23:52
it happened overnight, there was a lot of her returning back to that home base
23:56
of her feeling like a pretty negative person.
24:00
And it took quite a while to get that awareness or recognition that that was
24:04
something that was her default.
24:06
And it took a lot for her to start to create new neural pathways in her brain,
24:10
but it really did work. And she turned that situation around.
24:13
So some takeaways, a couple of things you can do. It's basically just being
24:17
aware of your emotional influence and whether it's on someone else,
24:21
but primarily on yourself,
24:22
because it's that power of your emotional state, because it's okay to acknowledge
24:28
that your mood has a significant impact on people that are around you.
24:32
And constant negativity will dampen the spirits of your partner and your friends.
24:36
And I'm not trying to say this with judgment, but with opportunity for awareness,
24:40
self-confrontation, growth, all those wonderful things.
24:43
If you are aware, then now you're on your path. You didn't know what you didn't know, now you know.
24:48
But it's maybe a little bit difficult to put that into action of starting to
24:52
try to be more intentional about being positive.
24:55
And over time, you'll do it more than you don't. And then eventually,
24:57
I promise you, you will become, if you are on this journey, Become a person
25:01
who is in that moment, being present and taking it all in.
25:04
Back to this experience over the weekend, speaking at this funeral,
25:08
when I arrived at the service, apparently that was something that I was in charge of.
25:13
And I thought that there were a lot more things that had been put together or put in place.
25:19
And I did find that that was one of these experiences where I think all of the
25:23
work over the years of being present and mindful and being intentional about just this is happening.
25:29
Happening and it's not going to help me to get down or beat myself up or play that victim mode.
25:35
So then when the person said to the person from the funeral home said,
25:39
all right, so what do you need? And tell me when you're ready to start.
25:42
And I was saying, I think I need a lot of things, but because I really don't
25:46
know what's going on, but I thought, well, but here we are, let's do this.
25:49
So then just being so present in that moment.
25:51
And it was such a, such an incredible experience. And I was grateful for that,
25:55
that ability to be in that moment and be present.
25:57
And then second Second is, I'd say the final takeaway is to reflect and then adapt.
26:03
And we'll go back to Emily's journey. If you find yourself in a similar situation
26:06
where you start approaching your communication.
26:11
Where your approach to communication is affecting your relationships,
26:14
then just first start to be aware.
26:18
And you will be aware in the moment that you're even doing it.
26:21
And it might be hard to get out of it in that moment. But just be able to step
26:25
back from that situation, reflect, and sometimes make a conscious effort to
26:29
change how you express yourself by incorporating more positive and affirming
26:33
language. And be curious.
26:35
One of the best things you can do if you're not sure what to to do when you
26:38
are interacting with other people is be curious.
26:41
Pretend that you're an interviewer, that you don't know anything about them,
26:43
and then watch as you still want to then cue up your response.
26:47
And then just notice that and be in that moment. Be curious.
26:50
People like to be heard. They like to be understood. They really do.
26:53
And by doing that, it can really improve your interactions, which then will
26:57
start to improve your relationships.
26:58
I think it's important to keep in mind that, yes, our emotions are the way we
27:01
express ourselves, and they play a really crucial role in our relationships.
27:05
And it is within our power of choice in that moment of what we share and how we share it.
27:11
Now, at first, it might not seem that way, but with some work and building in
27:14
a pause and maybe a nice mindfulness technique or practice on a daily basis
27:19
will help you build in that pause,
27:20
then you will feel more powerful and be able to be more intentional the way
27:25
that you are expressing yourself in your relationships and just as a human being.
27:30
So, I appreciate everybody joining
27:33
me today. If you have thoughts or comments, feel free to share them.
27:36
And now, now I will end with a good old chat GPT taking the transcript of the
27:45
wrapping things up like I just did.
27:47
And then it put it right back into that same voice. Here we go. Hey, y'all.
27:53
I can't even pull the accent without laughing, but out in the wild, I can sure do it.
27:57
But hey, y'all, as we're fixing to wrap up today's episode, let's do a quick
28:00
recap and leave y'all with some food for thought.
28:02
We dive deep into how happiness and unhappiness can spread in relationships,
28:06
kind of like catching a cold from your partner, but with emotions.
28:08
And we talked about a study showing how folks in a couple tend to start matching
28:13
each other's moods over time, and more often than not, it's the unhappiness
28:16
that spreads easier than a butter on a hot cornbread. Ed.
28:19
And we also spun a tale about Emily, who was as lonesome as a left sock in a
28:23
dryer because she couldn't keep
28:24
friends due to her constant griping and groaning, but bless her heart.
28:28
She turned her story around when she realized she was spreading more gloom than
28:31
a cloudy day in November.
28:33
First takeaway, mind your moods. Remember y'all, your mood's like a wildflower, it can spread fast.
28:38
And if you're always down in the dumps, it's like throwing a wet blanket over a campfire.
28:42
So try to mix in some good news and smiles with your gripes,
28:45
and it'll be like adding sugar to lemonade, makes makes everything sweeter.
28:49
Takeaway two, listen and change.
28:51
Secondly, if you find yourself in Emily's boots feeling as useful as a screen
28:55
door on a submarine when it comes to making friends, might be time to look in the mirror.
28:59
Sometimes we got to change our tune to play a better melody.
29:02
And if all you do is complaining, try throwing in some good stuff about your day.
29:06
You might just find folks sticking to you like molasses.
29:09
So there you have it, folks. As we close the barn door on this episode,
29:13
remember, happiness and sadness can spread quicker than gossip in a small town.
29:17
It's up to us to decide what we're sharing. Now, y'all take care now.
29:21
Don't forget to tune in next time for another heaping helping of down home wisdom and stories.
29:27
Taking us out per usual, the wonderful, the talented, Aurora Florence with her
29:31
song, It's Wonderful. Have a great week. We'll.
29:33
Music.