Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E290: How Do I Forgive My Sister After Her Abortions? | Lila Rose Show

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E290: How Do I Forgive My Sister After Her Abortions? | Lila Rose Show · The Lila Rose Show

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I want to be able to openly and freely be like, yes, I can have
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children, but I've struggled with my weight in my life.
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I do have a fear of going back to that place where I felt
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hopeless and like I couldn't change the way that I look.
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Have you done any counseling yet?
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Yes, I have. I just feel like I'm smarter
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than every I've ever had you. Probably you're very smart, I
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can say. Welcome back to the Lila Rose
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Show. We are taking live callers today
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with real stories and real problems.
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You can call too. You can call the show at
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1-714-202-7464. That's 1-714-202-7464.
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Hi, is this summer? Yes.
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Thank you for calling in. What?
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What's on your mind today? Well, I just.
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Wanted to call because I'm a mom.
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I have a 7 year old daughter and I am not with her father and I
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have been just thinking about like dating and what that
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actually means for my future. Because I've always thought,
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well, if I want to date somebody, I want to get married.
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And I've just become more and more like devout in my faith.
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And I think, well, if I marry somebody, they will probably
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want to have children. Like I'm seeing somebody now, he
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doesn't have any children. And I just, I always kind of
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hope that I would not have to have any more children because
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it was super just difficult on my mind, which I'm OK with that
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now. But I am afraid of like gaining
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weight. And I'm just like afraid of, I
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guess losing that like control over, over how I look.
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And I recently lost a good amount of weight.
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And so I'm afraid that I will gain it back with like, I can
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understand gaining and accepting that, but I'm afraid I'll be
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sucked into this hole where I can't pull myself out.
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And I don't want my fear to control the decisions I make in
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my life. And I also know that if like
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when you get married, like if I am a Catholic, like I say, like
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I do believe like you should have children if you're able.
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And I wouldn't want to withhold that from whoever my husband
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becomes like because of my own personal, you know, fears or
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comforts that I want to stay in. So I just don't know, you know,
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I, I want to be able to openly and freely be like, yes, I can
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have children, but like there's just a huge part of me that is
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like doesn't want to let go of that control over like the way
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that I look and potentially like gaining weight.
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And I've just, I've struggled with my weight in my life.
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And so I do have a fear of like, going back to that place where I
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felt hopeless and like I couldn't change the way that I
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looked. Listen, I think the first thing
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summer is I just want to. Congratulate you for being so
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self aware. And honest with yourself about
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what your hang up is when it comes to thinking about, you
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know, getting married and being open to life, having children.
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I think that takes courage, honestly, to be that honest with
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yourself because I think people might hear that or you might
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hear yourself saying that and feel like a tendency to judge
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yourself. But the first step is honesty.
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So want to commend that. I think that's really beautiful
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and a first step to figuring out how do I, you know, grow out of
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this or how do I overcome this? So a few questions.
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Just to. Clarify though.
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So first of all, you said you've got a beautiful daughter.
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Did you say 7 years old? Yeah.
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Beautiful. And then this is from a previous
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relationship. Have you been married before?
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No. OK, so not married.
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And then you mentioned that you've had troubles with your
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body image in the past. When did that first start for
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you? I mean, young, I remember being
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in the second grade and having issues, you know, with the way
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that I looked. So it's been something I've
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work, been working through and praying about and like looking
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for help and just learning the whole time for a long time.
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So it runs deep. So second grade, you were like 7
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or 8 years old. And what was the OR maybe 9 at
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the oldest, 8 or 9? So what when you say you had
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you, you didn't like the way you looked when you were in second
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grade? Can you walk us through what
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that looked like for you? I just remember like grabbing my
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stomach and like saying like that was too much so I was fat.
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And it just continued and got worse as I got older.
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Like I don't think I really was. I think I just was maybe not
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like a super skinny kid. And so, you know, as I probably
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got into middle school, then it became this like, well, I need
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to lose weight and this like back and forth pendulum point,
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you know, trying to lose weight in the most extreme ways, which
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would make me crash into food into in a really extreme way as
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well. And so it was just this roller
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coaster and I ended up gaining a lot of weight through high
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school from it and just like obliterated by self esteem and,
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and being aware of that, being aware of, you know, not being
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super skinny like the other kids.
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Was your dad in the picture growing up?
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Yes. Did he ever call You Beautiful
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or did you ever feel like he really celebrated you?
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And also, did you experience that with your mother at all?
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I feel like my mom told me I was pretty.
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I just like my dad was not, I don't think able to really like
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express himself in that way. I didn't have that kind of a
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close relationship with my dad, but I do remember like, you
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know, my mom telling me that I was pretty and things like that.
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When you were, you're describing kind of for the first time, kind
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of being aware of your body and thinking you were overweight at
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2nd grade. Was there someone that you
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remember pointing out to you, your body, or do you think that
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came out of nowhere? Or was there some moment where
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you had an experience of someone pointing out your body or
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somebody else talking about their body in a negative way
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that you can remember? I think it was the TV.
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Like I honestly think it was the TV.
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It's like it was the screen, like it was the time I grew up.
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Like it was much more normalized to like make fun of fat people
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on TV and, or if you didn't look this exact certain way because
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it was like the early 2000. So if you didn't look like Paris
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Hilton, you were fat. So I would see people that they
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would call fat and it was like, well, they're fat then like
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what's wrong with me? Because I'm definitely like,
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bigger than them, you know, so. And I do remember, like, my dad,
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like, pointing out people on TV and commenting on the way they
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look, you know, and internalizing that, too.
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You. Mean your dad saying like oh
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that person's fat on TV. Yeah.
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Or like, you know, oh, she's ugly or like, yeah, she's, she's
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a little tubby or she's a little fat.
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Oh, she just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
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Like things like that about certain like celebrities that
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they would see on the TV and stuff.
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And did you feel that, was there any man in your life growing up
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that you looked up to, that you felt thought you were beautiful,
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loved you, was affectionate with you?
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Was there someone that you felt affection from that was a man
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that you felt you trusted growing up?
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It sounds like with your dad, not necessarily, but was there
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anybody else in the picture? No.
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And then when you hit high school, you said you had some
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good friends, which is great that you felt loved by.
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Do you remember feeling what was the moment that you can remember
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maybe from your childhood and maybe this wasn't high school
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when you felt really celebrated, like people really admired you
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or thought you were doing a great job or thought you were
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wonderful. Do you have a memory of that
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happening to you when you were growing up?
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Yeah, I remember, like, performing certain things for
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like, school theater and feeling like, appreciated or like, like
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people thought I did a good job and was good at what I did, you
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know? So you felt like alive and and
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loved because people admired you for being able to perform well.
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You were good at performing. I think we know the way you're
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describing your childhood and I, I'll share something personally
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for a minute. I had issues with eating when I
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was in high school and before that I remember having really
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negative self-image as a younger girl and I think it was
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connected to distances I had with my dad during those
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important years. Now later on, we've been able to
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heal that, thank God. But there were some distances
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and there's a lot of reasons for it.
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I won't get into all that right now, but I think part of it too
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was just being surrounded by other people who were critical
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of body because that does impact your sponge.
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When you're a kid, you're you're absorbing everything.
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And so it's so easy to turn that self criticism towards yourself.
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It sounds like you didn't have with your own dad a really
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affectionate, affirming relationship and instead you got
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to see him in these moments occasionally doing criticism of
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other people for their bodies. And it sounds like you
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internalized that. Yeah.
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Was there another area in your life that you felt you had used
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the word control again? I think that was like amazing
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self-awareness that you shared earlier.
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You were talking about a sense of being in control.
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And that's also when people feel like their life is out of
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control, when they're hurting, when they're not feeling
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affirmed deep inside, they don't feel a strong identity that's
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loved deep inside. We we grasp that stuff.
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We want to control things. And it sounds like as a kid, how
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did you find a sense of control? Was it performing?
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What were what were the things that made Do you feel in control
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when you were a kid? I mean, it wasn't like positive,
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but it's always been like with food.
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But I think I did enjoy like performing and being in plays.
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And that made me feel like I could.
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Yeah. Control.
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Like, you know, if I was really good at something, then I could,
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if I performed well enough, then people would approve of me, you
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know, But I also just wanted to control the way I looked.
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I wanted. If I looked, if I finally was
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able to look the way I thought I should look, then people would
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like me. And then, then I would be
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lovable, you know, and. It didn't.
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Work because I just would end up eating a bunch of food and
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actually gaining more weight and feeling more same and so it just
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like viciously fed into itself I think.
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Has that cycle been repeating itself into your adult life?
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Yeah, yeah, It's only like somewhat recently I've become
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less like black and white, but I still struggle.
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Like if I feel like I ate too much, I will have anxiety.
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I will have to, you know, in my mind, talk myself out of it and
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like, I'm concerned that I'm going to keep going, you know,
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and that I'm going to gain weight.
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Like I'm terrified gaining weight.
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And, and, and your, your memories of being, you know,
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having extra weight on you. How do you feel when you feel
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overweight? What, what, what is that?
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What is that experience like in your innermost heart or your
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soul when you feel like, oh, my body is heavy.
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I don't like the way my body looks.
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Just like disgusting. I feel disgusting and hopeless
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and like I want to disappear. I don't want anybody to see me.
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I do feel so much better without extra weight.
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So that's why I think I'm afraid of gaining weight because I, and
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that's why when I feel like, because I know logically if you
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overeat, you know, just start with your next meal.
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Don't, don't be hard on yourself.
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Like everybody does it. But I in my for years had wired
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into my brain that there's something wrong with you and
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like, you know, you're so stupid or why would you do this that
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it's like I have to constantly like fight those thoughts away
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because they just not automatically come up now, even
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if I don't believe they're true anymore.
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And the thoughts that come up like it scares me that having
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those thoughts is going to make me almost do what I don't want
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to do, like self sabotage because I just don't want.
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I want relief from that mental stress.
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I think your awareness of that cycle is so key.
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And that's a deeply embedded habit now that you've had since
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you were a little girl. I mean, that is what you're
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sharing with me. And it's so powerful to
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acknowledge where, where you've been and where you're, you know,
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what you're struggling through now.
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Because if you can identify these are negative thought
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patterns that you've had since childhood, but that they're not
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true. And this is the part that's
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really key. You are not disgusting.
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You are not unlovable, you are not without value or you know,
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not worth celebrating because of extra pounds on your body.
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None of that is true. And it is truly a lie from hell
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that they that's been told to you since you were a little girl
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to try to tell you you're not worth that.
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You're not lovable and it's a complete lie.
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God created you and he loves you unconditionally and he delights
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in your existence and who you are.
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Now we can talk about being healthy because of course being
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healthy and striving for health is important.
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So I want to do talk about that in a minute with you.
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And I know you care deeply about that, but the sense of your
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identity is so key. Because here's the thing, you
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and I could we get in a car crash tomorrow, be completely
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paralyzed, right? You know, our bodies not have
15:52
any sort of value in terms of what it can do, right?
15:55
Except for maybe just be alive and we would still be valuable,
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worth loving, loved by God, right?
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And so it's so important for us, especially as women, especially
16:07
your mother, you want to be open to life in the future if you get
16:10
married, right? That you know you are loved and
16:14
you feel lovable deep within. But here's the thing, the
16:18
feelings are going to not catch up until you put the thoughts
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right. And then it's going to take time
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because your feelings are so used to responding to the
16:26
thoughts that you're not lovable, right?
16:29
So that, so the feelings are, are not trained and, and, and
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feelings can still deceive us even when we have good thoughts,
16:35
right? But it's the thought life.
16:37
Your thoughts are so powerful. What have you been doing on the
16:41
thought life front? Have you practiced, you know,
16:44
with prayer or with journaling? Have you done any practices to
16:49
remind yourself what God says about you, which is that he
16:52
created you, that you were loved, that you're beautiful?
16:55
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16:57
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Have you practiced those thoughts at all?
18:38
Yes, I, I pray everyday and I, I do journal and I, I do, I pray
18:53
that I can like have the strength to take the thoughts
18:57
captive. And I also, when I noticed the
19:02
thought, because they, it, it, it creates like a physical
19:07
reaction in my body of like fear.
19:10
And so I remind myself, Oh, this is just my story.
19:15
I tell myself that, you know, my I'm going to gain weight story
19:19
that, you know, because I'm trying to protect myself, you
19:22
know, but and then I just move on because I want to just
19:27
acknowledge it instead of being like, Oh, it's bad that you had
19:31
that thought, you know, like that means you're not healed
19:35
yet. That means, and so that sends me
19:37
into a worse spiral to be like, Oh, you shouldn't be having
19:41
these thoughts at all. Now I'm trying to just kind of
19:43
accept like, Oh, there's one of those thoughts and then like
19:47
continue on with my day. But I, yeah, I'm trying to, I
19:56
just, I, when I think about that and I think about the way I
20:01
treat my thoughts, it is like good.
20:03
I just think about, well, if you were to gain weight, like you
20:07
wouldn't be able to do that, you know, you wouldn't believe those
20:10
thoughts. You know, that's like what pops
20:12
into my head, I mean. You're you're going to.
20:15
Lose. You're going to lose every
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battle you fight against your non existent future self, you
20:21
know, so I wouldn't worry like because we can have endless
20:26
scenarios in our minds about what could happen in the future,
20:28
right? And you can't, you can't win a
20:31
thought battle in the future that you're not having because
20:35
you you're not in the future yet.
20:36
You can only win the thought battle today.
20:38
And by win the battle, I think you said something really wise a
20:41
moment ago. It's not about like, oh, I can't
20:43
think the negative thought. I have to fight the negative
20:44
thought. It's about letting the negative
20:46
thought come and go, being just passive about it, and then
20:49
working on filling our minds with good thoughts right through
20:52
prayer, through good spiritual reading, a good counselor, you
20:56
know, having good inputs because we need good inputs, healthy
21:00
inputs about what is true about God, about ourselves and our our
21:04
real identity. Listen with pregnancy, and I
21:08
know you know this. I think you know, that's what
21:09
I'm about to tell you. You are supposed to gain weight.
21:15
It's a problem if you don't gain weight when you're pregnant.
21:17
And I mean a lot of weight, at least 25 up to 50.
21:21
My mother, she gained 100 lbs when she had her first baby.
21:25
She lost virtually all of it afterwards.
21:28
I mean, that's a lot, right? But it is normal to gain weight
21:32
when you are pregnant. And so I think starting to train
21:37
yourself now, if you have her think about that, be like, it's
21:39
I should gain weight when I'm pregnant.
21:41
In fact, I'm it's my job like. It is your job.
21:44
To gain weight. And then I think the other thing
21:47
is when, when you get there, if you get there, right, you're not
21:49
married yet. So this is all kind of preparing
21:52
for the future, but it's, it's going to be those healthy habits
21:56
and, and not being so hard on yourself.
21:58
If you fall off the bandwagon because we all do, you're going
22:00
to have pregnancy cravings. It's going to trigger all kinds
22:03
of things, right? But just take waking up again
22:06
and starting over. I'm going to go on a walk today.
22:08
I'm going to take care of my body and and my baby by
22:11
nourishing it with good food. And I would recommend not
22:14
stepping on the state on the scale, you know, if and when you
22:18
you get pregnant in the future, like, like leave the skill out
22:21
of it. And then the other essential
22:22
thing is having a good doctor. You know, I'm not a doctor,
22:24
obviously, I'm not a therapist, but you need a team when you're
22:27
pregnant, you should have a team.
22:29
I think you need a team and that's going to help you
22:32
enormously. Your team is going to be your
22:34
husband, right, Because you're going to be married and have
22:36
this beautiful husband. Your team is going to be your
22:38
doctor. And I would recommend for you if
22:41
you're still struggling with this by the time you're you're
22:44
married, which again, we all struggle with with with all
22:46
kinds of of things. Having a good counselor,
22:49
Christian counselor. I over the years still sometimes
22:52
will go back to a counselor. I, I spent years doing wonderful
22:56
Christian counseling. Don't kind of work through my
22:57
own challenges, including with my disordered eating.
23:00
I had a counselor can make such a big difference to help keep us
23:04
accountable and help support us. Have you done any counseling
23:08
yet? Yes, I have.
23:11
How? Has that been for you?
23:17
I just feel like I'm smarter than every you.
23:21
Probably you're very smart, I can say, meaning I.
23:25
Just feel like they tell me things I already know, you know,
23:28
I need somebody that makes me think and makes me I've and so
23:35
I've been like looking for another person.
23:39
But I have done it and it is helpful.
23:41
It's just, I feel like sometimes I'm a little bit, you know, I
23:47
just think that I, I know they're telling me things I
23:50
already know and they don't understand or something along
23:53
those lines. Well, they're not going to
23:55
understand perfectly because they're flawed human beings, but
23:58
they are going to be I, I think you want to find what I read.
24:01
What I would recommend for you is to say, listen, I don't want
24:04
to just talk at you. I want you to help me develop
24:07
tools for being healthier. That should be the whole
24:11
project, right? Better understand myself if
24:13
there's ways you can help me with that.
24:14
But it sounds like you're you're fairly self aware, right?
24:17
It's not like you haven't thought about your childhood
24:19
before. You had answers for me.
24:21
You know, we were discussing it earlier.
24:23
You can still explore that. But the most important thing is
24:25
going to be developing habits and tools, which I'm sure you
24:29
already have some. It sounds like you're already
24:30
using them, but then they they're holding you like a
24:33
encouragement slash accountability partner is the
24:35
way that I would see it for you. But I mean, overall, from what
24:41
you've shared with me, summer my you know, my big picture 100,000
24:46
foot view advice for you is that you do know a lot of these
24:51
answers. You do have a sense of what your
24:54
struggles are, you know, in the past and and and maybe in the
24:58
future. Don't don't curse yourself to
25:00
that. You don't know what you're going
25:01
to experience when you're pregnant, right?
25:02
You don't know for a fact if you, if you get, if you do get
25:05
married and get pregnant. But I would just be more hopeful
25:10
because I think you're you're an you're an analyzer.
25:14
You analyze, you think a lot, you brood and that can be a
25:18
superpower, right? But it can also get in your way.
25:22
You are doing great. You're, you're thinking about
25:25
all the right things. You're going to church, you are
25:30
trying to get get closer to God. You're you are working on your
25:33
health, you're trying to be a good mother.
25:36
You're doing all the right things.
25:39
So I think you need to just celebrate that.
25:42
I want to celebrate that with you, and you are on the right
25:45
track, and Satan's going to just tell you all these things about
25:49
the future and how scary it is. Screw that.
25:51
You know you're on the right track.
25:53
You're doing the right things today.
25:56
Yeah, thank. You another question for you, do
26:01
you have role models? Who are you?
26:03
Who are the women that are role models for you my.
26:07
Mom and my grandma. What do you love about them?
26:16
My grandma is always so positive and so sweet and she just has a
26:23
great sense of humor and she's just like you just like are
26:28
happy to be around her. She just does always like, and
26:32
she's so interested in what you have to say and, you know, just
26:36
like little things. She finds joy.
26:38
And then my mom is like always been really beautiful and very
26:46
self sacrificial and he gets things done and he's like very
26:53
effective. I'm really lucky that I got
26:57
those examples, you know? They sound amazing.
27:02
And one thing you didn't say about either of them as the
27:04
first thing to say is that they're skinny.
27:07
You know, I'm not saying they're not skinny, but the point is,
27:10
all those qualities you listed, you can emulate those every day,
27:13
right? That's who God's calling you to
27:17
be. And so I want to encourage you
27:20
think about your mother and your grandma every day and say, how
27:22
can I be more like my mom and my grandma today?
27:26
And maybe that's like going out of your way to love somebody
27:28
that you know, like say something an extra word of
27:30
kindness to someone that, you know, volunteer work, being
27:34
extra patient with your daughter, right?
27:37
Being extra cheerful. Those if you keep those, those
27:41
ladies, those beautiful ladies as your role models, as they
27:44
are. But really, like, take time to
27:46
think about them each day and think about how you can do
27:48
things like they do things. And that'll also fill up your
27:52
heart and mind right where you might be tempted, just worry
27:55
about your weight or worry about the way you look.
27:57
Fill up your heart and mind with what you really care about right
28:00
in the depths of your heart, which is being sacrificial and
28:03
loving and joyful and giving and all those beautiful qualities.
28:09
How does how does that sound? Good, I need to not be so
28:15
worried about myself. The only the only way to not
28:20
worry about oneself is to not not worry.
28:23
It's also be like, Oh, I'm not going to worry, right?
28:25
It's what you said. You know the answer, right?
28:27
Let it pass and then fill up your heart and your life with
28:31
all of the goodness that God has for you.
28:33
OK, you you've got this. OK.
28:40
Thank you. And I'm going to pray for you.
28:42
I'm going to close us in prayer if that's OK.
28:44
And I want you to call me back. When you get.
28:47
Married and pregnant with your first baby your your second
28:50
baby, I should say. After your your daughter, of
28:51
course. OK.
28:53
All right. All right.
28:55
OK, I'm going to pray for us. Name.
28:58
Of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Heavenly Father, thank you so
29:02
much for summer. Thank you for creating her so
29:04
beautifully in your image and likeness and for giving her such
29:07
a great intellect and a deep understanding.
29:10
And I just ask that you pour grace upon her, heal whatever is
29:14
in her that is hurt and wounded, and just give her freedom.
29:18
I pray that you give her inspiration and thoughts of your
29:22
love and your mercy and your goodness and that she's just
29:26
full of your. Joy and full of your.
29:28
Peace. I pray that she has peace that
29:30
surpasses understanding. I also pray that she can see the
29:34
struggles that she's had, the struggles she may experience now
29:38
as just a way to get closer to you.
29:40
And a way to learn more on you, on your strength, on your
29:44
unconditional love, on your piece.
29:47
And I pray for her vocation. I pray that you bring her just
29:50
the right man for her. I pray blessings on her current
29:53
relationship, the man she's dating, if that's your will.
29:56
I pray at blossoms. If not, I pray for whoever you
29:58
have in mind for her. And I pray just abundance on her
30:02
future children, on her family, and that she can experience the
30:07
incredible beauty and love that you have for her.
30:11
And I, we entrust all of this. To you and we ask for the
30:14
Blessed Mother's special intercession to the ultimate
30:18
role model for us as women. And we pray this in the name of
30:21
the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
30:22
Amen. Amen.
30:26
Thank you, Lila. Thank you for calling Summer.
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32:00
Hi, Michelle. Thanks for calling.
32:02
How are you doing? I'm doing good.
32:04
How are you? Good.
32:05
Thank you. Thanks for calling in.
32:08
What's on your mind today? Several years ago I found out
32:12
that my sister had multiple abortions paid for and kind of
32:21
encouraged. Feels like the wrong word, but
32:23
encouraged by my mom. And this was before I was
32:27
married and had kids of my own. And since I've had my own kids,
32:34
it just has become increasingly difficult for me to feel like I
32:38
can trust them around my kids. And I've just really struggled
32:44
in the past four years that I've had children to kind of
32:48
reconcile that that was, you know, how the, I guess, first
32:53
grandchildren were treated of the family.
32:58
And so it's hard for me to kind of allow a lot of access to my
33:03
kids. That is super tough.
33:06
That is really tough to discover that.
33:08
And so some questions are you, do you all live close to each
33:11
other? We don't.
33:14
OK, So they're they're when they visit or you visit them that you
33:17
guys have to travel to each other.
33:20
Yes, ma'am. OK.
33:21
And then so when they have you always been strong in your face
33:26
is that it sounds like were you and your sister raised the same
33:30
way? We were.
33:34
Ivy actually became Catholic about what, 7 years ago?
33:39
Got it. So she's not.
33:42
They're not, but I I am really strong in my faith now.
33:48
We were kind of raised like non denominational.
33:51
Got it. Beautiful, well, beautiful that
33:53
you're strong in your faith now and then.
33:55
Are they? Do they practice any faith right
33:57
now? Your sister and mother.
33:59
No, no they don't. And how do what do they think
34:02
about your faith? I think the perception is that
34:09
it good but that it I I don't know.
34:13
I feel like I'm thought of as like holier than thou type
34:17
situation. Well, you know, have you guys
34:22
discussed the abortions? It's been brought up a few times
34:26
over the years but it hasn't been discussed like at length.
34:31
It's been more of a thing that has just become more prevalent.
34:34
Like I feel like I, it's, I'm the only one that has an issue
34:37
with it. This is how it kind of festered
34:40
with me and how I feel about their relationships with my kid.
34:45
And so it's only been talked about really when I was pregnant
34:47
the first time and the the conversation was don't talk
34:51
about it because it will make your sister uncomfortable.
34:54
And are they so? And they don't regret it at all.
34:57
So like when they have brought it up, it's not in the context
35:00
of, oh, this is so sad and even bad that this happened.
35:03
It's more like, oh, yeah, of course we had to have those
35:05
abortions. It's kind of like a matter of
35:07
fact, no issues with it. It's a my, it's, it's, it's only
35:15
ever been talked about and like we were justified in doing this
35:20
because of my, my mom did not want to help my sister raise
35:27
children. My sister was only 20.
35:30
I don't know, 21 maybe at the time when you're 21 or 22.
35:35
And it was, you know, it was like she's not responsible and
35:40
I'm not going to be the one to do it.
35:42
And so that's where I also struggle.
35:44
And I'm, I'm, I'm like, and I have said to my mom, I'm like,
35:48
you know, I'm a mom now. And I could never imagine doing
35:52
that to my daughter and I and I, I've told them both like I'm so
35:57
sad that y'all were in that situation and that that's what
36:00
happened. I just can't imagine it.
36:03
And it, it is just like, well, I, we, I had to do it.
36:07
And I, I, I've never said this to my mom, but my thought
36:11
process is, well, then why do you think you shouldn't have a
36:14
hand in helping raise my kids? Like you didn't want you, You
36:18
want to do it when it's convenient for you, is how it
36:20
feels to me. So I, I hear what you're saying
36:23
and I there's a few things to make distinctions here.
36:26
They are not walking with God, your sister and your mother.
36:31
You are, thank God, and and so you're, you're getting special
36:36
graces and God is giving you this opportunity to have faith,
36:42
which is so beautiful. Now that I'm not saying he
36:44
doesn't let them have that opportunity, but they don't have
36:46
that gift yet. They're not living that they
36:48
haven't accepted that gift, I should say.
36:49
So in a sense, your, your posture to them should be, you
36:54
know, not not pity, but compassion, right?
36:56
Because they're, they're ultimately unrepented.
36:59
Abortions think it's the right thing.
37:01
They're living in darkness. Right.
37:05
And and you are, I think of you can be a bit of light for them
37:09
and your kids and your whole family because you're living
37:12
with light. You're living to accept life and
37:14
live with God. So is there something concrete?
37:17
I know the general feeling of uneasiness of well, they
37:19
supported abortion. Those were her first grandkids.
37:22
Is there anything that they've ever done specifically that has
37:26
indicated to you be separate from the abortions, which are
37:29
horrible of course, that have indicated to you that they
37:32
aren't safe to be around your kids or with your family?
37:37
No, no, not physically. Or even it could be emotionally.
37:41
I mean, it could be in what they say.
37:43
I mean, I do. Are they kind of like saying,
37:45
talking about? There's been some instances of
37:49
what I feel is emotional kind of manipulating to my older, my
37:55
younger, not, you know, able to really comprehend anything to my
38:00
daughter. Yeah, there's been some just
38:02
comments made and I've I've had to ask specific, you know,
38:07
conversations and things not be said around or see my kids.
38:12
Like what? Can you give an example?
38:16
My sister is also a big supporter of like gender
38:20
ideology and talks of has talked about that stuff in front of my
38:25
kids. And when I've asked her not to,
38:26
she has respected that and not done it.
38:30
And my mom, my mom will do things so like ask my husband
38:36
instead of me for permission to do something with the kids,
38:40
quote UN quote, like surprisingly like so want to
38:42
take my daughter to do XYZ as a surprise to me.
38:45
And there's there's things not involving the kids, but I mean,
38:51
as I've my whole life, my mom has been pretty manipulative.
38:53
So it I'm like it, there's lots of things besides to see
38:57
abortions. But yeah, there have been
38:59
instances definitely of like emotionally manipulative around
39:03
the kids, but nothing physical. And so I mean, I don't, I don't
39:07
really let any of them be alone with the kids.
39:09
I mean, so it, which is hard because it's like I don't want
39:13
to feel just like I have to just be babysitting everybody all the
39:16
time. Right, right.
39:18
Well, you are. You are the mom and God gave you
39:22
instincts to protect your kids. And it's not that your mother or
39:26
your sister-in-law are evil or that you don't love them and
39:29
they don't also love your kids. It sounds like they sincerely
39:32
love your kids and want to be around you and your kids, which
39:34
is, which is beautiful. It's actually healthy.
39:37
But you, you got to trust your instinct as a mother.
39:40
And it doesn't sound to me like you're trying to, you know,
39:43
totally shut them out. You let them come over.
39:45
It sounds like you guys do holidays together.
39:48
How often do you see your mom and your your sister?
39:53
We see them like 4 between like 4 and 6 * a year.
39:59
And are they complaining that they don't see you enough?
40:02
Or is there some sort of tension where they feel like you're OK?
40:07
So do they want to visit more? What, what are what are they
40:09
kind of asking for that you're not feeling comfortable with?
40:15
They are asking for just like more time.
40:20
It's a lot of it's the comments are more directed at me that
40:25
like I don't live by them so I don't bring the kids enough.
40:28
So I and I I don't respond because I guilt trip.
40:32
I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't live where y'all live.
40:34
You know what I mean? Sure, yeah.
40:37
I'm like, I'm not. I don't engage with that.
40:40
Yeah, well, some of that is just can be like family dynamics,
40:43
guilt trip like you moved away, you know you can't Why why do we
40:46
visit you all the time? I mean to visit me and you're
40:48
well with me really like look, I got the young kids you're
40:51
welcome to come visit me. I love seeing you guys.
40:53
But you know, I we don't travel really, you know, like we.
40:56
We've traveled very. Rarely you come to us.
40:59
I mean, I think that's fair that they don't have living children
41:02
anyways, right. Young children, you are here,
41:05
you know, with those little ones.
41:06
So do you feel guilty asking them, saying, hey, listen, I'm
41:10
sorry I'm not visiting, but that's it's not really in the
41:11
cards, but you're welcome to come visit me.
41:13
Does that make you feel bad? No, it doesn't make me
41:17
uncomfortable. I think my hardest thing that
41:21
I'm having issues with is, sorry, hold on, I have a kid
41:27
falling off. The formula.
41:30
My biggest thing I'm having an issue with is, is really because
41:34
I've lived away from them for 10 plus years.
41:37
So it's not that's the that's kind of how the pattern has
41:41
been. You know, I come home for
41:42
holidays every once in a while. So that that was kind of
41:44
established before the kids. The comments have never stopped
41:47
of like it. I should be I could come home
41:50
more. I don't come home enough, blah,
41:52
blah, blah. I think my biggest thing is how
42:00
I don't know how to reconcile that my grandkids are are
42:08
deserving of, you know, this when the other two were not I, I
42:11
don't know. Survivor's guilt.
42:13
You have you have survivor's guilt.
42:15
I guess, yeah. On behalf of your own kids
42:17
because of their cousins who were not here.
42:21
Like Cousins? Yeah, right.
42:24
I mean, that's real and it's hard.
42:28
That's a real thing. And it makes sense that you feel
42:32
that way because those were their cousins.
42:35
And I think it's added insults, injury for you that it's not
42:39
shared grief, right? At least not yet.
42:42
Your mother and your sister do not share your grief, at least
42:45
not yet. They're, they're presenting like
42:47
it's a good thing or a normal thing or it was the right thing
42:50
anyways for that, for these kids to be killed and not be here.
42:55
Right. So it, it makes it's, it's
42:57
isolating for you because on top of you feeling the pain of them
43:02
not being here and the confusion of the cousins not being here,
43:06
your mother and your sister, the women that you're closest with
43:09
in the sense you spent your whole childhood with these
43:11
people, right? It was your own mother.
43:14
They're acting like it's no big deal.
43:18
Right. So I think it's totally normal
43:23
for you to be feeling so heavy about this.
43:26
And it seemed to for it to feel confusing.
43:29
I think I wish more people talked about this, quite
43:31
frankly, because this isn't a lot of families today, but it's
43:35
just buried. They stuff it.
43:38
And so they just act like Michelle, it's not even an
43:41
issue. I was going to say, I think that
43:44
that is just kind of the, the expectation.
43:46
That's kind of been how my whole, not even just my
43:49
immediate family, but like my extended family, it's a don't
43:53
talk about things. And I'm like the older I get and
43:56
the more, you know, deep into motherhood I have become, the
44:01
more of this is just I, it just is bothering me more and more
44:05
and more as time goes on. And so I'm like, I'm coming to a
44:08
point where I feel like it has to be addressed.
44:10
Yeah. Have you thought about writing
44:12
them a letter? I have and my my counselor
44:17
suggested that as well. I just, I've told my husband I'm
44:22
like, I don't want it to feel like, you know, like I'm just
44:26
been holding on to this as like a reason why I'm mad at y'all or
44:30
a reason why I don't want to be around y'all because I mean that
44:34
has come to what it is. I'm I'm so uncomfortable
44:37
sometimes I'm like I don't even want to be there.
44:40
Well, it's it. I think it's because that feels
44:42
fake, right? Like you love them, this is your
44:45
mother and your sister, but it just you probably feel fake
44:47
around them because of everything that's unspoken.
44:51
Yeah. So I I think the counselor's a
44:56
good idea that write a letter to your mother.
44:58
I'd make them individual letters, one to your mother, one
45:01
to your sister. I think in addition to being
45:05
honest with them, you know, and, and pray over those letters
45:08
before you send them because you might decide after you write
45:11
them, it's not right to send them yet, right?
45:13
This is a very personal thing because some people aren't ready
45:16
to hear it yet because they don't have God the way that you
45:18
do. And so you, you know, I know you
45:22
feel compassion for them. It's good to feel compassion for
45:24
them and only and also a very important thing only, only in
45:28
the end, God is going to be able to judge them, right?
45:31
You cannot judge them. You can judge the fact of what
45:35
happened as wrong, evil, abortion's wrong.
45:38
It's evil. These children should be here,
45:39
these cousins, but you can't judge the depths of their hearts
45:43
because that is for God alone. So that should give you some
45:47
actual relief actually, that you're not responsible for like
45:50
justice for them, right? You don't have to worry about
45:52
that, but so I would write those letters, just bare your heart,
45:57
pray about before you send them. You could also talk to your you
46:00
could talk to your priest about that or your husband or your
46:03
counselor, you know, to kind of navigate if this is right to
46:05
send them. But I think the posture with
46:09
families, you know, we've had a lot of these wonderful
46:12
psychologists on the show here and they talk a lot about family
46:16
brokenness, you know, family members who aren't walking with
46:19
God, family members who have gone off the reservation, right?
46:22
And just having to deal with that.
46:25
And I think a word to really keep in mind is forbearance.
46:32
And by that I mean loving patience because they're not
46:37
with God the way you are. They don't have the clarity you
46:40
have, or at least they're fighting it, right?
46:44
So I think you can have the boundaries.
46:46
You are 100% within your right to have boundaries as a mother.
46:49
You don't want them alone with the kids.
46:51
They're welcome to visit, but you're going to like have
46:54
certain standards of how that goes.
46:55
You're going to be loving to them.
46:56
You're going to invite them, but you're going to have your
46:58
standards, right? And then you just, you really
47:02
have to surrender it to God because this is one of those God
47:04
things where we cannot control the outcome.
47:08
These people, they have free will, right?
47:11
Like we all do. So it's just a it's, it's
47:13
honestly it's, it's going to be one of the hardest things you've
47:15
probably had, have had to do in your life.
47:17
I mean, I'm sure you've had to do harder things too, but it's
47:20
just surrendering the situation to God because this is, this is
47:24
a tough one that is outside of your control.
47:27
Totally. It is.
47:32
That's really helpful. Yeah, I will.
47:34
I haven't heard that the forbearance, so I'll have to
47:38
take that into account and and do it.
47:44
I think in a sense it's almost like you're because you're this
47:49
Christian mother, you're you're seeking God, you're loving God
47:54
in a way you're going to be mothering them a little bit like
47:58
you. You're going to be almost living
47:59
like Mama married to them because you see the issues.
48:03
You have your boundaries to protect your children, right?
48:07
But you're still in the way that is appropriate for you.
48:09
You're still going to love them patiently.
48:12
And I think that's going to make you a St.
48:14
You know, doing that, it's going to not be easy.
48:17
Thank you. But no, this is part of your
48:19
path to being a St. is having to deal with the situation.
48:22
Yeah, totally. I haven't thought of it that
48:26
way, that that's a definite kind of perspective painter, because
48:32
it's just, it's been a lot of like anger and bitterness that
48:36
I've held for years. Yeah, and, and those are natural
48:40
feelings to have. But this is this is that path to
48:44
love the way Jesus loves. This is that path to love the
48:47
way Jesus loves. So.
48:50
Be the light. As I say, be the light.
48:52
Yes, be the light. And, and here's the other thing,
48:55
you being the light to them, that might be what ultimately
48:59
breaks through and leads to their repentance, forgiveness,
49:05
and healing. Yeah, that'd be awesome.
49:09
And that's what you're aiming at, right?
49:11
So keep that in your innermost heart of like I'm when I, when
49:14
it's hard to love them patiently, right?
49:16
That's what I'm aiming at. Yeah.
49:21
And then one other thing I'm going to say, I think this
49:22
really helps for us, us Christians, when we have all
49:25
these graces that God gives us. But I think it is sometimes
49:28
tempting to be proud, like, oh, well, we don't, we didn't do
49:32
that sin, you know, you didn't have that abortion.
49:35
But this is where I want to ask you to ask God to give you
49:41
humility when you when you love your sister and your mother and
49:45
ask God to help you see the good in them, because I'm sure
49:51
there's good things. I mean, the very fact that they
49:52
want to be around you and they love your kids, you know, in
49:55
their imperfect ways, right? There's a lot of, I'm sure
49:59
there's goodness there, right? And so I would ask God, you
50:03
know, have the boundaries again, you know, be wise, trust your
50:07
instincts, but ask God to help you see what you can love and
50:12
celebrate in your sister and your mother and focus on those
50:16
things when you're with them because they're going to feel
50:19
that love. And that's going to be a way for
50:21
them to feel God's love. That's good.
50:25
That's good to good to think I actually I'm staring at the
50:28
litany of humility on the front of my fridge right now.
50:31
You're awesome. I was.
50:33
I was literally thinking about the litany of humility and was
50:35
going to recommend it and you beat me to it.
50:37
Yeah, I have it packed up on my fridge.
50:40
That's awesome. Yes, and I will be praying for
50:44
you. Do you mind if I say a little
50:45
prayer for us? I know you're going to get back
50:47
to those beautiful kids. I'd love it.
50:50
All right, beautiful. And the name of the Father, the
50:52
Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
50:55
Heavenly Father, thank you so much for Michelle, her beautiful
50:58
family, for her faith, for her beautiful kids.
51:02
We just pray so many graces on her and her family.
51:05
We pray so many graces on her beloved mother and sister.
51:09
We ask that you can just touch the deepest parts of their
51:13
hearts and bring them closer to your truth, to clarity, to
51:18
truth, to love that they can ultimately come in full
51:21
communion with you and the church one day.
51:25
We pray that Michelle is just given all the graces she needs
51:28
to love them the way Jesus loves them and to continue to grow in
51:32
virtue and just love of her family, including her mother and
51:36
her sister. And we entrust this entire
51:39
situation to Our Lady and Doer of Knots and her intercession.
51:44
And we ask that you just give every grace to every single
51:48
person in Michelle's family. And we pray this in the name of
51:52
the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
51:53
Amen. Hi, Charlotte, how are you?
51:56
This is Lila. How are you doing?
51:59
Lila, I'm, you know, I'm surviving.
52:03
Yes, thank you so much for calling.
52:06
Yeah, for sure. Thank you for for having me.
52:09
Of course. So how are how are you doing?
52:12
What's what's going on in your life right now?
52:15
Well, so I'm, I'm struggling right now.
52:21
My, I, we lost my, our baby boy almost exactly a month ago.
52:30
I delivered at 35 weeks and he lived for three days.
52:38
So we've been, you know, going through the funeral and, and the
52:43
the grieving and just trying to figure out where we're at now in
52:48
life. I'm so sorry.
52:53
I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your sweet, sweet one.
52:56
What? What was his name?
52:58
His name was Aries. Aries.
53:01
Yeah. Sweet boy, I mean.
53:04
He was, he was very much perfect.
53:07
Yes, and and he passed away, you said after three days.
53:12
Yeah, yeah, he was in the NICU for three days.
53:15
I'm so sorry. Thank you.
53:21
I can only. Imagine it was a rough
53:23
pregnancy. And so did did he have a
53:27
condition that you knew about before he was born?
53:31
Yes, he had, excuse me, he had Noonan syndrome with his it's a,
53:38
a type of dwarfism and usually it only affects the heart.
53:46
But every, every scan we did, his part was was really strong
53:50
and really perfect. So what his lungs were were the
53:56
issue. They were filled with with
53:59
fluid. His lymph system, they told us
54:03
was just not draining properly. It was, it was draining into his
54:09
lungs and eventually it got to the point where there was so
54:16
much fluid. It was, it was going into his,
54:22
his abdomen, his chest cavity. And it was just, it was two
54:29
months. So I I had to have AAC section
54:32
at 35 weeks to deliver him and and try to save him and.
54:38
And when he was born to the doctor say that he.
54:42
Did they give a diagnosis where they said, oh, it's fatal, he's
54:45
going to die? Did they say he might live?
54:46
What was the diagnosis you got? I mean, Noonan syndrome, but
54:49
what was the, what did they say in terms of what they thought
54:53
his lifespan might be or once he was born, his chances were?
54:59
So with Noonan syndrome, from what I've researched, it's very
55:04
rare for for a baby to to pass away from Noonan.
55:08
There's only like a a 3% tan and so when he was, but even before
55:16
he was born, you know, the doctors become he was going to
55:20
be very sick. But that we ended up at a Parian
55:27
with here in Denver, which is the only level 4 NACU in the
55:34
Rocky Mountain area, I believe. And so they were, they were very
55:38
hopeful that they would be able to, to save him.
55:43
They had planned for us to be at their Ronald McDonald House, you
55:47
know, for several months. They, there were plans for him
55:50
to be in the NACU for at least a few months.
55:54
So that it took everybody by surprise.
55:58
I'm so sorry. It's so devastating.
56:04
Yeah, losing a little. 1. And do you have other kids?
56:10
I think I hear. 1 Yeah, yeah, I have two, two little girls, A4
56:16
year old and 2 1/2 year old. So this was baby brother.
56:20
Yeah, yeah. And we were very hopeful.
56:24
I I had a miscarriage just before him, so we were very
56:28
excited for him, but. You mean you're in the thick of
56:33
the hardest thing that any parent will ever experience.
56:37
You're in the middle of it right now.
56:40
You lost your, you lost your little boy.
56:43
And so I, you know, you got a, and I, I hope I, I, I'm going to
56:47
guess you're doing this, but I want to encourage you to give
56:50
yourself every bit of grace and your husband and your family,
56:55
because there's nothing harder than this.
56:58
This is the hardest thing. And I'm, I'm lucky, you know, a
57:01
lot of people who go through this support that they need.
57:06
And for me, I've had a lot of support and a lot of of good
57:11
people. My older sister Colleen has been
57:16
incredible, absolutely incredible.
57:18
And I wouldn't, you know, make it through this without her and
57:21
without my husband. Do you have a faith?
57:26
Yes, yeah, we're, we're practicing Catholic.
57:29
Beautiful. That's so beautiful.
57:32
Well, that's the comfort we have is that this little guy, your
57:35
little guy, he's in heaven. He's your Angel.
57:37
He's your Saint I. Should say he's this little St.
57:41
Oh yes, I pray to him every night to help me get the girls
57:43
to sleep. How sweet.
57:46
That's so beautiful are you? Is there something on your mind
57:52
that as you're navigating the grief, are there thoughts that
57:56
you're wrestling with about? Yeah.
57:59
The passing of your little one that you want to talk about it
58:02
all. Yeah, so, so Noonan.
58:07
Noonan is genetic. Well, 75% of cases are genetic.
58:13
So if one of us were to test positive for Noonan, you know,
58:18
as as a Catholic, I want more children.
58:21
And I've, I love children. I've always wanted more
58:23
children. But do I?
58:27
So do I? How do I discern that?
58:29
How do I discern if we risk having more children?
58:33
Or you know what, what we're being called to, what's
58:37
responsible and what what do I do for my family?
58:43
Those are all very natural questions to ask and you just
58:47
discover because of your son having unions that this is that
58:50
you, you or your husband are carriers.
58:53
Yes, possibly. I mean that there's a chance
58:56
that we're not. We're being we.
58:57
We just went through genetic testing.
58:59
Got it. But if we are, you know, in and
59:04
then is it, is it eudenic to not want or to not have more
59:12
children because of that risk? You know, it's hard, hard
59:16
question. Yes, well, first of all, the
59:20
Church teaches that you having a babies, if you know your carrier
59:25
for some sort of a genetic, genetic carrier for some sort of
59:28
a disability or condition, having the child is completely
59:33
within your right as a parent. It's very beautiful and there's
59:38
no law that says you can't. You know, the world today would
59:43
say don't have children or abort the children.
59:45
That's what the world says. I'm sure they offered you to
59:47
abort your little boy. I'm going to guest.
59:49
Oh yes. Oh yes, at 28 weeks.
59:51
Horrible that's disgusting I mean that's what they do the
59:54
medical system so the country so oriented towards destroy
59:58
disabled babies, kill disabled babies don't have disabled
1:00:01
babies, right they're not they don't have value is how the
1:00:04
culture sees them. We know that's a lie.
1:00:08
Your little son had infinite value, has infinite value.
1:00:13
He's God's son. And you, you know that you know
1:00:17
all of this when I when I'm telling you and so.
1:00:20
The question of as a married couple, you're open to life.
1:00:24
That's what we are as Catholics. We don't contracept.
1:00:27
We can use natural family planning to space pregnancies or
1:00:32
serious moments. Avoid pregnancies if there's a
1:00:35
serious reason and that's not contraceptive because it's not
1:00:39
sterilizing the sexual act. It's waiting for the period when
1:00:43
the woman is not fertile for when you may come together and
1:00:45
be intimate instead of when you are fertile.
1:00:48
So there's no severing of the sexual act procreation from
1:00:51
unitive. It's just having, you know,
1:00:54
being abstinent during those periods of time.
1:00:57
But I, I would encourage you first of all, you are in the
1:01:00
middle of grief. It's your one month out.
1:01:01
You just had AC section. You're still recovering.
1:01:05
You're grieving the loss of your little boy that you had hoped
1:01:07
would live. You did not expect him to pass
1:01:10
like he did so quickly. So I don't think now is the time
1:01:14
for you and your husband to have to say, are we going to have
1:01:16
another or when are we going to have another?
1:01:19
Because you're in the middle of the grief.
1:01:20
So I want to just give yourself permission to not have to have
1:01:23
everything figured out because you are in the middle of the
1:01:26
grief. You already know no
1:01:28
contraception, right? You know that And, and when
1:01:33
you're, when you're able to have a baby, if your period gets
1:01:35
back, you're able to be fertile again.
1:01:38
I would not put too much of A burden on yourself to say, oh, I
1:01:43
don't want to, I, I shouldn't have, or I, I don't want to have
1:01:46
another baby or I need to wait longer or be more.
1:01:49
Be so careful because God's got you and your family.
1:01:55
He, he's going to, he's going to be there for you and with you.
1:01:58
Are you, are you feeling anxiety about maybe I need to avoid
1:02:02
getting pregnant soon? Or what's the kind of thought
1:02:05
process right now in terms of, you know, the next steps for you
1:02:08
and your husband? Yeah.
1:02:11
So there, there's a lot of pressure from from doctors to,
1:02:16
you know, to contraceptive to get a vasectomy or two PIED.
1:02:23
There's a lot of pressure to just avoid being pregnant within
1:02:30
the first, I think she said 18 months after C-section, you
1:02:35
know, there's this long list of, of terrifying things that that
1:02:39
could happen if I got pregnant too soon.
1:02:41
So it's it, it, it's a hard balance between I want, I want
1:02:48
to listen to God and I want to trust and I want to be open to
1:02:51
life. And then there's all these these
1:02:54
frightening things that they're pressuring up with.
1:02:58
Do you have a pro-life doctor? Where?
1:03:00
Where are you from? I'm in Colorado Springs.
1:03:05
That I'm trying to think I'm, I don't know.
1:03:07
No one immediately comes to mind, but is there a do you know
1:03:09
if there's a pro-life doctor that you can see?
1:03:14
I not really the most pro-life I found was at birth center where
1:03:22
I delivered my my second daughter.
1:03:26
But they're they're not like explicitly pro-life.
1:03:29
They're just the ones who have respected life the most.
1:03:33
Yes, I mean, it's tough for I've I've had this conversation so
1:03:36
many times with moms and I've, I've had to see deal with it
1:03:40
myself to a degree in terms of trying to find that pro-life
1:03:42
doctor and especially because of the potential genetic condition
1:03:46
you might have or your future kids might have and you know,
1:03:49
you had AC section and the passing of your son.
1:03:52
I can see why there's all this. It feels kind of confusing where
1:03:55
people are just saying don't have babies, like don't.
1:03:57
That's the that's the worldly wisdom, right?
1:04:01
You don't have to listen to, you can get second, third and 4th
1:04:04
opinions. And again, the Catholic Church
1:04:07
does not teach that you can't or shouldn't have kids just because
1:04:12
you might be a carrier for a potential condition and you love
1:04:17
kids. You've had, you've already had
1:04:19
two beautiful kids. It sounds like neither of them
1:04:21
have new Noonan syndrome. No, or at least not severe
1:04:25
enough that it would show up. That you, yeah, you can't even
1:04:28
notice it. And so if there is it.
1:04:30
And so I would just encourage you if you can find another
1:04:36
opinion and it could even be a possible, you know, potential
1:04:41
Zoom meeting. There are some pro-life doctors
1:04:42
that will do a Zoom consultation where you can at least share
1:04:45
your situation. I know I'm not a, I'm not a
1:04:48
doctor, so I can't give you medical advice, of course.
1:04:51
And I want you to make sure you are able to heal after your
1:04:54
C-section and you're able to, you know, take care of yourself,
1:04:57
right? Because your Mama and you're
1:04:59
going to be a healthy mom as a healthy baby.
1:05:01
But I, I also don't want you to feel like you owe it to any pro,
1:05:09
you know, non anti life or not practicing Christian, you know,
1:05:13
doctor or nurse that tells you you're not allowed to get
1:05:16
pregnant or, you know, you have to go use contraception.
1:05:20
Obviously, you, you don't have to do that.
1:05:21
You know that, that that violates your faith and, and the
1:05:24
faith because I think God, you know, God does have a plan for
1:05:30
your marriage and he's had a plan for these little ones, even
1:05:32
with the loss of your son, he, that little one's in heaven now.
1:05:36
So, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't want you to feel frozen
1:05:40
or fearful because of these voices coming at you from all
1:05:44
sides, especially when you're, you're not in the position right
1:05:47
now to have that pro-life doctor to kind of help you see things
1:05:50
more, more as they are instead of with the agenda that a lot of
1:05:54
doctors and nurses have today. Yeah, and it was, I mean, even
1:05:59
with with the grief and with all the, the pain we're going
1:06:03
through and the the difficulties of this pregnancy, I, I wouldn't
1:06:08
paid him for anything. I wouldn't paid those three days
1:06:12
we had with him for anything in the world.
1:06:14
I wouldn't want him to have not existed, you know?
1:06:20
That's so beautiful. And he he has.
1:06:24
I I miss him. I miss him terribly, but I'd
1:06:26
rather sorry. I'm trying not to cry, but I
1:06:31
would rather miss him than having never known him.
1:06:39
And now he's part of your part of God's family forever in
1:06:43
heaven. And he, he knows his Mama loves
1:06:47
him and he can be, can be that little prayer warrior for you.
1:06:53
Yeah, I, I got to hold him for his last, his last moment.
1:07:00
So that was that was something they would have robbed us of.
1:07:06
So I'm I'm very grateful I got to hold.
1:07:09
Yes, it's so beautiful. But I would just, you know, my
1:07:14
gut tells me, my sense tells me. Here again, I'm not a doctor,
1:07:17
but from a perspective of, you know, being open to life when
1:07:22
the child might have a disability, I would just
1:07:24
encourage you. It is so beautiful to be open to
1:07:28
life and. Would you?
1:07:30
Would you have any pro-life doctors that you would
1:07:33
recommend? I do know and recommend pro-life
1:07:35
doctors. They're here in Southern
1:07:37
California and there's one I know in Northern California.
1:07:40
I, I kind of want to ask my team to start looking for you in
1:07:43
Colorado area because maybe you could drive to Denver even for a
1:07:46
visit. I know there are pro-life
1:07:48
doctors in Denver. That's a couple hours for me,
1:07:50
right? Yeah, yeah, an hour and a half,
1:07:54
two hours at most. Yes.
1:07:55
So there's something called Pro-life providers.com and a
1:08:00
project of Presidio Healthcare, one of our awesome show sponsors
1:08:03
here, they are including increasingly a database of
1:08:06
pro-life doctors that's pro-life providers.com.
1:08:10
You can check that out. I believe it's called Bella
1:08:13
Healthcare in Denver. They have these pregnancy
1:08:16
resource centers, but there's pro-life doctors that work
1:08:19
there. Can you look it up, Paris, if
1:08:21
it's Bella Healthcare in in Denver?
1:08:23
But I would, you know, certainly before making a decision with
1:08:28
your husband to indefinitely delay pregnancy, which I would
1:08:31
not recommend. I would absolutely, because I,
1:08:34
I, I think you know, you've got 2 healthy little girls.
1:08:36
Even if you know, the Lord in his Providence permitted a
1:08:40
future child of yours to have Noonan's, like you said, it's
1:08:43
only a 3% chance that they'll pass.
1:08:45
I don't think in it would be in any way irresponsible to, to not
1:08:50
have to have children. I think I would even make an
1:08:53
argument in your case to permanently avoid having kids.
1:08:57
Using NFP so it's not contracepting I would say is not
1:09:01
the way to go would be my opinion.
1:09:04
I would encourage you 2 to be open to life in the future.
1:09:06
How old are you? 31 You're young, have a long way
1:09:10
to go. Yeah, you're young and again,
1:09:13
you're in the you're in the midst of grief and shock after
1:09:16
losing your son. So again, right now it's
1:09:20
understandable. You're thinking, can we go
1:09:22
through this again? What's this going to look like?
1:09:23
And you know, obviously the chances of you go through going
1:09:26
through what you just went through again seem very low.
1:09:30
First of all, the baby would have to have Noonans and then
1:09:31
the baby would have to be the 3% chance that pass away.
1:09:35
So, you know, with anything in life, there's risk, right?
1:09:42
So anyways, did you look it up, Harris?
1:09:45
Is it Bella? It's Bella health plus Wellness.
1:09:49
I want you to give them a call. Ask about a pro-life doctor and
1:09:55
when you can try to make a visit to Denver to share your
1:09:58
situation with a pro-life doctor and get another opinion about
1:10:03
delaying or avoiding pregnancy as a post C-section Mama.
1:10:09
After going through what you went through.
1:10:11
That's for your Peace of Mind. If, if you feel you need that
1:10:14
for Peace of Mind and then I'm so sorry for all these medical
1:10:18
professionals telling you all this nonsense about abort your
1:10:22
baby or use contraception. Again, that's not all
1:10:26
professionals today. That's unfortunately some.
1:10:29
But I I have a lot of hope for you and and your family for the
1:10:33
future and and what the gifts God may still have in store for
1:10:37
your family, not promised, but in terms of potential future,
1:10:40
future kids. Yeah, absolutely.
1:10:43
Thank you. It's very, very comforting.
1:10:46
Of course, but now's the time for you to just let yourself
1:10:50
grieve and I will be praying for you.
1:10:54
Do you mind if I close us with prayer?
1:10:56
No, go for it. Beautiful, the name of the
1:10:59
Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
1:11:01
Amen. Heavenly Father, thank you so
1:11:04
much for this beautiful woman, Charlotte, for her precious
1:11:09
little son. For her beautiful daughters, for
1:11:12
her husband, her marriage, her faith.
1:11:14
Thank you for the nine months and or not full nine months, but
1:11:20
it was at 8 months and three days she had with this sweet
1:11:23
little boy. Thank you that you are now
1:11:25
holding him in heaven. And we just entrust Charlotte in
1:11:29
the grief completely to you. Ask for many consolations, for
1:11:33
peace, for experiencing a strong sense of your peace and your
1:11:37
love, your consolation. And we just entrust Charlotte's
1:11:41
future, her fertility to you, her possible future children to
1:11:45
you. We just completely surrender it
1:11:46
to your Providence. And we thank you so much for
1:11:49
every grace you've given us and for the gift of marriage and the
1:11:55
family that Charlotte's been blessed with.
1:11:57
And we entrust this to you in the name of the Father, the Son,
1:11:59
and the Holy Spirit, Amen. Amen.
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