Latest / Strange Stuff Podcast / Episode 244: Irish Myth - Irish Fact

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Episode 244: Irish Myth - Irish Fact · Strange Stuff Podcast

• Andy: Hello everyone, I'm Andy and we're back with another episode of Strange Stuff Podcast and we're creeping closer and closer forward to episode 250. And kind of in celebration of this in advance, you may have noticed there was a slightly different intro today. Mark: Yes, and I'm Mark. Well, I haven't noticed it because I haven't listened to this one yet. ⁓ well, that's good. Andy: No, you wouldn't. But I on board what you said about the... I mean, it was awful because the compression system of this particular studio ruins the intro. It just destroys it. So you can't hardly hear the music. Mark: Now that's the point, you couldn't hear it and I thought some customers I was about to say, just think hang on a second, this is just silence and then after about 17 seconds you get the dun dun dun or whatever the music was. Anyway, whatever, good job. I look forward to listening to this one. Andy: This new intro is only about like six seconds long. Mark: Okay. Andy: You'll see. Anyway, so what's going on? Mark: Yes, but well for the first time in a very long time we've had consistent rain here and I know weather's a bit boring but when you're hoiking 100 kilo roofing beams four and a half meters into the air it's nice to do it when it's not pouring with rain which is what I did yesterday but the garden needs it. all my rockery flowers are exploding in colour. Andy: Who the hell cares? Mark: It's amazing the difference it makes actually when you do get a bit of colour back in the garden, you know that finally the winter's over as it were. Andy: fucking Midsummer. Mark: Nearly. Well we have had snow at midsummer quite a few times actually. But, no, all is well on the home front. you'll be excited today to see whether Wes Streeting, the Health Minister, is going to challenge Keir Starmer for the leadership. Andy: You know what? He was instrumental in Tony Blair's cabinet when he went to that illegal war. And he is absolutely a war criminal, same as Tony Blair. And he shouldn't be, he shouldn't be challenging anybody except the judiciary system for his latest appeal. Mark: ⁓ Is that right? I wasn't aware of that actually, that he was around in the days of Tony Blair, was he? Andy: the war criminal. Mark: So, well, we'll see today whether Keir Starmer, or whether they do, ⁓ and what the outcome is. I suspect the outcome is going to be that Keir Starmer stays as leader. Andy: ⁓ Yeah, unfortunately and fortunately. I mean I don't want a war criminal running the country again. Mark: Mmm. Yep. Andy: The first thing that he'll do, street in, is cosy on up to Trump and say, who should we invade next? Mark: ⁓ Well, when you say instrumental, he was a supporter of the Iraq invasion, he? Andy: very much. very much. Mark: Yeah, but the thing is that the Mossad doesn't have any, I assume, doesn't have any dirty videos of West Streetings, so they don't have quite the same, don't have quite the same leverage that they do over Trump. Andy: Don't be, don't be so sure. Don't be so sure. Their tentacles are everywhere. Even I'm enthralled to Mossad. They got me on a few things. Mark: in your dreams. Have you ever been to Israel? You didn't go through, I haven't either, but you didn't go through the stage. Do remember when we were young, when I was about 17 or 18? Exactly, everyone was going on a kibbutz. Yeah. Andy: Everyone was going on a kibbutz. Yeah, propaganda, indoctrination, grooming. Mark: Well, we have a mutual friend who went on a kibbutz. That's where he met his wife. Andy: Wahoo! Mark: You know, the only, one of the very few of our original crowd that's still living in Moora. Norit, Moora Norit, Shane. Andy: I didn't know that. Mark: Yes, I think Shane met his, met his Mrs. on a kibbutz. Or certainly they've been to a kibbutz together. I think they met there. It was all the rage. Some of my cousins went on kibbutz and they're, you know, steaming Catholics. I don't know what the extreme Catholic is called, but yes, and even they ended up, even they ended up in a kibbutz, some of them. Andy: cultist. Yeah, but mean, basically, kibbutz was just basically a piss up while you're picking oranges. Mark: Yeah, was something, it was a community holiday spirit type thing where you were doing work during the day and as you say, I wonder what Israeli wine, I wonder if they produce any wine in Israel, I don't think they do, it's too hot. I don't know. No, no, no, when you think about it, er... Andy: I don't know they grow grapes don't they? That's the right climate I would have thought. Arid. They grow them in Greece. Mark: yes, but I think Israel is a little bit worse than Greece in terms of temperature, isn't it? Sorry, I'm looking at my map when I'm talking. Anyway, so what are we talking about? We're streeting. So that's, you know, that actually is news. Real news. And of course, hang on a second, we've forgotten Trump is in China. Andy: Kind of. Mark: Do think he had to look on a map to see where he was going? Andy: He probably thought it was fairly close to Alabama. Mark: And, God, I've forgotten the name of the... Who's the Chinese leader? Ping? Chi? E? X? I don't know, I can't remember his name. Which I should do, bearing in mind how powerful he is. But he didn't bother to go to the airport to see Trump. He sent some menial... Well, normally when you arrive you get... Andy: WONG Why would he? You can't suck up to Trump and China won't. That's the thing. Mark: No, well that is the thing, China won't suck up to Trump. mean China is in a massively powerful position compared to America at the moment and they know it. Andy: Yeah, they've got 10 times the population. Mark: ⁓ What's the population of China? Andy: It's gonna be over a billion, isn't it? Mark: Yeah, I think it's three times the population of America, but yeah, no, you're right. But I'll tell you what I'm getting through on my YouTube suggestion feeds these days. A lot of ⁓ ordinary people life in China, what it's really like. And there's obviously an awful lot of... new wealth in China that is not just, I'm talking billionaires, I'm talking shopping malls that are full of people spending money. There was one particular, not girl, woman I was ⁓ prompted to watch. Her apartment must have been the smallest apartment I've ever seen in my life. I would be surprised if her whole apartment wasn't sort of like 15 square meters. Her kitchen was two square metres. Andy: I mean, I had the world's smallest toilet in my Stockholm apartment and that was about two square meters. That's just ridiculous. You couldn't, you had to sit on the toilet to have a shower. Mark: ⁓ yes you're right Yeah. Well I had one of those. fact, it? I... Boringly for listeners who don't know anything about Sweden, it's actually called a Stockholm bathroom. That's what the term is. And I had a bathroom, literally the same, where you close the door of the bathroom and that was the shower cubicle. So when you showered, you were showering, you know, you were walking around the toilet and the sink. Everything got wet. Andy: It's awful. I was ⁓ brushing my teeth in the mirror one day in the bathroom, just had my hand resting on the sink brushing away and the sink fell off the wall. Mark: Really? Andy: It was such a shithole. ⁓ Medborjaplatz. it was Wittebergen really. It was just on the ring road. Mark: Where did you live in Stockholm? Where did you live? I don't remember you living in Medborio Platson. Alright. ⁓ alright, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Andy: but it was very, very central. Mark: Yeah, well you know that my apartment was just around the corner. Yeah. And why did we never meet up when you were in Stockholm? Because I didn't have the apartment in those days. Andy: Yeah, I know yours was walking distance. Because you didn't have your apartment there. You did actually, because you phoned me and asked me if I would be available if Izzy or Alex needed some kind of assistance. And I said, well, I can sort Izzy out, but Alex is on his own. No, no, you actually did. You did. As I was there, that was the point. It was the best of Mark: No. You are joking. There is no way in this world that I would have asked you, what is the irresponsible guardian? You are joking. Andy: the only world you had. Mark: You Andy: I was surprised as well, must say. thought, has he met me? Mark: I'm sure you were exactly. Does he know me? Take responsibility for my 16 and 18 year old children. God, dear. Anyway, so yes, what else is going on in the world? We've got Trump in China. We've got Labour leader challenging. ⁓ That's about it, really. There must be more. Come on, what's in the current ban? Or have you stopped looking at that page now? Andy: ⁓ Well, I've kind of st- Mark: ⁓ really? Andy: But I'll have a quick look. ⁓ yeah, we had some poor young girls in Brighton drowned in the sea, three of them, after a student night out. No, last night this happened. Mark: Go for it. No. You're joking. What? What? They were partying? Andy: fully dressed, partying until 4am, a beachfront nightclub that does a student night once a week, and they fish their bodies from the water. Mark: Terrible. What, they went for a swim? Andy: Yeah, and what, I don't know, they were fully dressed. It's very early days. Mark: I haven't read that on the news. Where was that? Why wasn't that reported? Andy: It's on the current band you just asked me to look. Mark: No, no, no, but it should have been a front page of the BBC. Andy: ⁓ no, because they're working class. Mark: ⁓ how do you pronounce the chinese x i so that's the leaders the Andy: See ya. Mark: Alright, so you don't know anything, do you? Andy: I say that with full confidence. I mean, that's how it should be pronounced according to me. Mark: No, there's nothing about that. Death in Brighton. Terrible. Can you imagine? You know, your life is just beginning as a student. Andy: I nearly died many times when I was that age. Mark: a slight exaggeration Andy: No. And I remember once I was living for some reason in St. Leonard's on sea near Hastings and a friend of mine from London came to visit with this girl who I was sort of having a thing with. And no, no, he brought her with him. And we went out anyway. They were spending the weekend. So we went out. Mark: ⁓ What, you were having a thing with your friend's girlfriend? Alright. Andy: And it was... Mark: I think you meant to say brought her with him as opposed to bought her with him. Andy: My hours are silent sometimes. You asshole. So anyway, we've got now it's like November and the pubs are shut. we're making our way back to my place. It's fucking freezing. I mean, mate says, I fancy going for a swim. We're pissed, right? Fully, fully pissed. So we've walked down to the beach. There's a pier. Mark: Clearly. Andy: at St. Leonard's and he's strolled into the sea. Mark: ⁓ alright, I thought you were going to say he jumped off the pier, which would have been a death sentence. Andy: Now he strolled into the sea. This is November. The sea is not nice and calm. It's rough as fuck and it's very, very cold. Anyway, we waited around 15, 20 minutes and he never came back. So we went back to my place and started doing what teenagers do. Mark: What do mean you hadn't called the police at that stage? Andy: Well no, don't ever talk to the police. Anyway... Mark: What, so your mate is drowning in the sea in November and you just say, ⁓ let's go home and have a party. Andy: He was, I hadn't shagged her for ages, so. Anyway, we got back to my place about half an hour later, there's a ring on the doorbell. There he was soaking wet. Mark: It's a funny, you have a habit of your friends disappearing when they go travelling with you. That poor fellow, that Swedish chap who disappeared for, was it 36 hours he disappeared for? Andy: That was his own fucking stupidity. Mark: Yes, but it's funny isn't it how you seem to associate yourself with people who do really stupid things and disappear. Andy: Oh, I don't know. It'll be your turn soon. Mark: Well you won't catch me going to. Where did he end up at some... not gay bar, it was a transvestite bar. Andy: It kind of was a gay bar because he was with a transsexual black Swedish guy. Mark: ⁓ he was a Swedish guy, was he? ⁓ I see. Yeah. Well, I'm sure he had a good time for 36 hours. Was it 36 hours? Am I exaggerating? Yeah. Andy: Yes! That was very strange. Very strange. Yeah, it was a day and a half. mean, we did actually have the police looking for him. Mark: I wonder, do you talk to him anymore? Andy: That's another story. I haven't spoken to him for a while. Mark: Yeah. Anyway. Good. What got us onto that subject? Near-death experiences. That was a near-death experience of a friend. It wasn't your near-death experience. Andy: ⁓ dear. Mark: I've only had one what I would actually describe as a near-death experience. Andy: when was that? Mark: I was probably, let me have a quick think, was probably something like 19 or 20 and it was in a, it was a car accident that narrowly avoided being a death-defying car accident in a little Fiat X19. It little two-seater mid-engine sports cars. Andy: What happened? I remember the X19. Mark: ⁓ was a very... yeah, Bertone was the designer. there was a long queue of traffic on a road I knew very well and I thought, I'll go for it because there was a learner driver at the front of this queue of about seven cars I would say and I overtook this queue of cars. Andy: Was it a Bertone? Mark: and I realised that I was going much, much too fast for a very sharp corner that was soon approaching and the corner, there was basically a ravine on the other side, a ravine is a bit dramatic, but if I had left the road it would have been catastrophic. I lost control of the car trying to navigate around the corner and I managed to end up by pure luck parked neatly to the curb on the other side of the road pointing in the opposite direction from where I came. I beautifully, I say beautifully, it was very elegant, slid this car around the corner, carried on going, and literally I was parked neat against the curb. And I would... Andy: So then you got out, brushed your shoulders off and went casually into the local pub. Mark: Well, the funny thing was that the learner driver, the instructor, because everybody behind could obviously see this happening effectively in slow motion. So the learner driver was obviously told by the instructor, stop, stop, stop, he's going to crash, he's going to crash, stop, stop. So it was about literally, literally about four minutes later, finally, Andy: and your learner driver went, I wanna do that. Mark: these cars came around the corner you know wondering what because if anything had been coming in the other direction I would have been dead. X19 is a tiny little sports car and in a crash it would have just been destroyed and that was that was truly the most stupid thing I'd ever done in terms of near death because if it was pure luck that I stayed on the road and it was pure luck there was nothing coming in the other direction Andy: Yeah, I know nearly bought one. That's how I know what it is. Mark: it was yellow it was two-tone actually yellow on the top and metallic brown down below it looked like a bumblebee Andy: Hmm, I nearly stung me to death. Mark: and it nearly stung me to death. I've got picture of it downstairs. Andy: Well. I'll tell you of one of my near deaths which also included traffic. I think I was about 19, 18, 19. I had a Yamaha XS250 at the time. Mark: ⁓ yes. Were you driving? ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ excess 250 that was a four stroke not a two stroke Andy: Yes, four stroke and it was ⁓ the XS 250 Special. So it was like a chopper with the King and Queen seat in the eight panger handlebars kind of. It was a cruiser. That was lovely. But I was riding from Kingston in the Surrey. But I think it was the A4. Mark: ⁓ my god, that sounds absolutely d-dreadful. Yes. Andy: back in central London. Mark: Yes. Andy: And I'd bought this CB Aerial which was very, yeah that's exactly it. Mine was the blue one with the sparkly paint. This CB Aerial which was quite long, a few meters long and I had it strapped to the side of my motorcycle so it was sort of sticking out a bit front and back. Mark: A CB radio on your motorbike? Andy: No, was an aerial for a CB radio. Mark: ⁓ I see right, yeah. ⁓ just to look cool! Andy: No, it was no, it was for an installation. But it was I was I had to get it home and it was too big to do anything except sort of strap it to the side of the bike. So that's what I did. Anyway, it's raining, it's I'm hacking up the A4 towards a roundabout. Or there's a right turn off the A4. Mark: Yes. ⁓ I see. right. Okay. Yeah. Andy: There's no traffic lights. It's one of those box junction type fucking things. But anyway, I'm hacking away and I can't hear anything because I've got my crash on me on the me bikes game. Anyway, all of a sudden I'm overtaking cars. I thought what's going on. And then I see fire engines turning in front of me. So I hate, I mean, I was too close. I hit the brakes really, really hard. I was. locked both wheels and I was sliding in a straight line towards these fire engines. On the last fire engine the big wheel on the back missed me by about an inch and a and I stopped the bike and it stalled and as I was restarting it this car went past and there's a bloke looking out the back window and he went, you alright? And I went, and he went. That was fucking close. Mark: Did you ever hit the ground when you were on the motorbike? Did you ever fall off or get knocked off? Andy: I got knocked off, yeah, so I broke my leg. Mark: Is that right? You got knocked off your motorbike and you broke a leg? ⁓ my god. Andy: Yeah, on a roundabout, no less. Mark: Because I came off, it wasn't my motorbike, it was my moped. I came, my AP50, I came off that twice. Knocked off once, came off it twice. ⁓ dear, the things we used to do. Andy: Anyway, talking of what we used to do, what happened on this day? In our very Mark: What is the day? The 14th of May? Andy: It is the 14th of May and it's quite an auspicious day because on this day in the year of 1607, settlers from England first arrived in Jamestown, Virginia to establish the first permanent English settlement in North America. Mark: 1607 Andy: 1607, yeah. ⁓ Mark: That's a fair old time away, isn't it? That is a long long... Andy: 420 years ago. Mark: I how long it took them to get there, suppose sailing... And I'm just trying to think, where is Virginia? Obviously it's on the East Coast. Andy: 418 years. Mark: Alright. Why do they call it Jacksonville? Jamestown. Andy: Jamestown. ⁓ Captain James perhaps? Mark: No, wasn't in Christopher Columbus. Andy: No, no, no, no, no, that's not it was probably Captain James who established the town. Mark: All right. Andy: It's a guess, but it's probably accurate. Because they did tend to name things after themselves, much like Trumpage. Mark: Or maybe it was King James in the throne at that time. Andy: Possibly that is possible as well. Anyway, in 1796, Edward Jenner tested history's first smallpox vaccine. For centuries smallpox had devastated populations around the globe. It's estimated to have killed 300 million people since 1900 alone. Mark: I can't remember how he discovered it, but there was an element of animal activity involved. He thought that some of his cattle or something... Andy: Yeah, he noticed his dairymaids who'd been exposed to... ⁓ Mark: Bovine no, what's what's what a bovine small? Yeah, exactly. Yeah Yeah, that's right Andy: cowpox basically. They became immune to smallpox. So he experimented by exposing himself to his milkmaids. By exposing a young boy to cowpox. And once the boy recovered, he then exc... What? This sounds like abuse to me. Mark: Yeah. Well, it would be classless abuse these days. Andy: He then exposed the boy to smallpox. I bet it wasn't one of his sons. And he noted that the disease did not develop. And this experiment would set the foundation for later vaccines that would virtually eradicate smallpox globally. Except it's still killed 300 million people since 1900. Mark: since 1900. Andy: Yes. Mark: What, in the last 126 years, 300 million people have died of smallpox? Andy: Yes, because vaccines are not globally available because we don't help the rest of the world. Mark: no you're Andy: And then we import them back into England and we start the whole fucking cycle over again. Mark: I wouldn't be surprised. In fact, I have a feeling that isn't smallpox... hasn't there been some cases of smallpox in the last few years? Something. Andy: Yes. And even, I think even Polio is rearing its head again. Mark: Thanks to RFJ. R-J-K, what the hell is his name? Kennedy, R-F-K, whatever his name is. Andy: Now this is quite a disturbing one. In 1939, Lina Medina became the youngest person to ever give birth. Mark: do. ⁓ dear. Andy: just five years old. Peruvian girl named Lina Medina became the youngest person in history to give birth. After noticing her growing abdomen, her parents transported her to the hospital for examination where doctors confirmed that she was seven months pregnant. Six weeks later, she gave birth to a healthy baby boy by caesarean section. The doctors noted that she had a fully mature reproductive system due to what's known as precocious puberty. Mark: God. Andy: The biological father of the child was never revealed and later in her life... Lena remarried and had another son. Remar- Mark: Five years old? When was that? Andy: Yeah. 1939. Mark: Yeah. Andy: And here's a bad day in history. 1948 the state of Israel was founded. Mark: Was it really? Andy: this day. Mark: the state of Israel. What's going to be interesting is this Eurovision Song Contest malarkey that's going on this weekend. Andy: There's already a bit of controversy there. seems like they're losing control. The artists are trying to outdo each other with porn. Mark: Porn. Andy: Yeah, one of them is basically just a porn video, their stage act. there's another one who I actually did watch the video because I wanted to find out what word it was that they were saying this song can never be played. And apparently she's singing about something cunt, something cunt. Mark: Eurovision Song Contest. Andy: Yes, they're just, they're trying to do the old, if I get banned, I'll definitely get number one. Mark: I see what you mean. I was actually thinking in terms of Israel because I have a feeling that last time Israel did very well on the Eurovision Song Contest. Very well. Andy: They'll get nil-pois this time if they enter. Mark: I don't know. No, no, no. What do mean they are? That's the whole controversy. think six or seven people have pulled out because Israel is competing. And ⁓ it wasn't the jury vote. They got no plan from the jury. But the public vote was enormous for Israel. And I may be remembering this wrong. Andy: But how? Because there's only like 350,000 Jews in England. Mark: No, but that was the point I was going to make. ⁓ You can't claim that what goes on is Israel. What goes on in Israel is nothing to do with the general Jewish population, which I would agree with. What goes on in Israel is it's down to Netanyahu and nothing to do with normal Jewish people living wherever they like. But it does sort of put a bit of a question mark. when israel is so widely supported by jewish voters one assumes in mainland europe why would you support a song representing israel So we'll see. Maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe I remember it wrong, but I think that was the case. But the fellow, the Israeli artist was shocked by the response of the crowd when they started booing. Exactly. So I wonder what world he lives in. Exactly. It's got nothing to do with politics. I'm just singing a song. Andy: ⁓ why? Why? I'm just defending my country. Anyway, talking of singers, on this day in 1998, one of the best Frank Sinatra died. Mark: Did he? ⁓ You don't hear much of Frank Sinatra on the radio these days. Andy: No you won't. He's not popular. Gen Z won't even know who he is. Mark: Is that right? But you know, the same time, was... You Sinatra was popular in the 70s and 80s, wasn't he? That was peak. Andy: With whom? No, he didn't peak in the 70s and 80s. You're thinking Tom Jones now. Mark: I think it was peak. Andy: Tom Jones was popular in the 90s even. Mark: So when was Frank Sinatra popular? 50s and 60s? ⁓ I see. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Andy: 50s and 60s. him and his mafioso connections. Mark: That's what they all say. Do you think it was true? ⁓ really? Andy: Yep, 100%. Because all the mob wanted to hang out with him because of his, because of who he was. So he was, he was technically an unofficial mobster. Mark: I thought it was the mob who actually promoted him to stardom. Andy: Well they did in the end because I mean he ended up, he finished his career basically in Las Vegas playing in casinos. And that was all mob run. And still is. Mark: Anyway, come on, what is that, is there a subject are we just rambling on about nothing forever? Andy: Well, you were the one rambling, to be honest. I was talking common sense. Anyway, yes, we do have a subject. There's a couple of things I want to talk about today pertaining to a little bit of mythology and a little bit of fact. And they're both stories from Ireland, the Emerald Isle. Mark: No, wasn't. I was asked Fact. Why is it called the Emerald Isle? Andy: Because it's green. Green and lovely. Mark: No. Alright. Andy: And also I am officially allowed to talk about Ireland because I am legitimately 50 % Irish. Mark: What do mean legitimately? Andy: Well, a lot of people claim to have Irish heritage. doesn't mean anything if your great grandparents once met someone who sold something to someone from Ireland. Mark: When was the last time a member of your family hierarchy or lived in Ireland? Andy: I have people living in Ireland today. Most of my family live in Ireland. That's where we come from. That's where my father was born. Mark: ⁓ do they? I was going to say it was your father, was it? Andy: Yeah. My daughter was over there a few years ago to meet her cousins and her uncles and aunts and... Mark: Alright, so you've got an extended family in Ireland. Andy: very very very extended millions of them Mark: Yeah, so carry on. That's your family background. What's the story about? You got one myth and one... I was just about to give you a surname. I was going to say an Andy fact, which is always a bit dodgy. Andy: Well, we'll start with the myth and it's not really a myth and there's a bit of, well, I've got to warn you not to believe everything because you did believe in King Arthur. And this first story has shades of Arthur and in fact, some aspects of Arthurian legend were plucked from this very story. Mark: No, wasn't the King Arthur thing that wound me up, it was that ridiculous Sword in the Stone in Italy story that wound me up. Andy: No, but you believed that King Arthur was the real king. Mark: it done. Andy: You can't deny it now because it's out there. It's on the internet forever. About 60 million years ago, an intense volcanic eruption forced molten basalt rock through the upper layers of chalk forming a flat plateau of volcanic rock. As the lava cooled, it contracted into basalt columns forming the Giant's Causeway in Ireland. Mark: That is quite interesting that you've seen it, have you? Is that where they have these octagonal pillars? Are they octagonal? Andy: Yeah. Yes. They're not exactly geometrically perfect but they're not exactly round. Octagonal is 8. Hexagonal would be 5. Septagonal would be 7. Mark: No, is it six-sided or eight-sided? The crystals are pretty big. Yeah, I know. And what's six? Seven. Come on. What's six? Andy: I don't know anyway at least that is the scientific explanation. Irish tradition however has a far more colourful tale to tell. Now before I go into this I want to actually give a shout out Mark: I'm going to check it out. Andy: to. A chap who I am plagiarising mercilessly. Mark: It wouldn't be the first time. Andy: A chap called Beepin Dimri who did all of my research, regardless. Thanks for giving us this information. And here we go. Mark: They are six. Most of them are six-sided. Andy: six-sided. So what shape is six-sided? Mark: I'm going to check that now. I just wanted to carry on. Andy: Okay, for the poets of the oral tradition, the causeway was built by the legendary Irish warrior. And I'm going to mercilessly slaughter this name. instead of doing that, I'm going to anglicise it. And it has been anglicised to Finn McCool. Mark: Finn McCool, Hexagon. Andy: It is a hexagon, I thought hexagon was five. Mark: six. Andy: Anyway, ⁓ so yeah, it was built by Finn McCall to avoid getting his feet wet. And the stories of Finn McCall are ancient indeed. They're associated with the peoples who lived in Ireland before even the Celts inhabited the land around about the third century BC. Sometimes a hunter sometimes a giant standing 16 metres tall, Finn MacCool looms large in the prehistory of Ireland, and also the Isle of Man. Mark: Find me cool! Andy: Except his Irish, not Scottish. Finn Macaul. Much of Irish tradition and history is lost to us, as enigmatic as the druids of pre-Roman Britain. But the stories of Finn Macaul and his travelling companions as told by his son, the legendary poet Orshin, have been preserved down the centuries. So who was this man around whom so many legends and local stories pivot. Finn McCool was born to Maureen Munshim, or Maureen of the Beautiful Neck, and Kumhol, leader of the loose-knit warrior bands known as the Fianna. I'm gonna lose it with these names. Mark: Look, bloody... you just two minutes ago you were claiming that you were Irish heritage and how can it be so difficult? Yeah, but you're not really Irish then are I wouldn't make such claims if you can't even get the names right. I mean, really. Andy: Yeah it doesn't mean I can speak the lingo mate. You claim Italy. Mark: yes angionelli roberto angionelli Andy: Yeah, so speak some Italian then. And not just, not just... Hasta, ragatta! Mark: Exactly. Andy: Meir Maureen's father, the druid Tad-Makh-Nudat, had foreseen that the marriage of his daughter would lead to his loss of home. The druid therefore rejected any suitors for his daughter and refused to let any lover approach her. However, Kumal was determined to win Maureen and abducted her from her home. Tagsort helped from the High King of Ireland, Con of the Hundred Battles, ⁓ to retrieve his daughter. Kumul was chased down and defeated by the King's forces and killed by Golmak Mawna, who became the new head of the Fianna. Maureen was returned to her home, but when she found that she was already pregnant, her father rejected her in shame. So the King Arthur connection. ⁓ is coming up. However, the King intervened and sent Maureen to the Druidess Baldmoll, Cwmhol's sister. Under the protection of Baldmoll, Maureen gave birth to Cwmhol's son in Ballyfin, a small village in the heart of Ireland. very heart. Maureen left her son under the care of Boudmal, knowing that the boy had inherited the enemies of his father, Kumhal. So Finn was brought up secretly by two foster mothers, Boudmal and Líath Luachra or Luachra de Grey, in the forests of the Laos mountains, surrounding the village where he grew up to be strong and brave. Finn was taught everything about warfare, trained to be a great warrior. And as the son of Cumhael, he still had friends in Ireland and he traveled from court to court to complete his education. One of his most famous stories took place when he first left the forests and mountains in Laos. Finn met the druid and poet Finnegas in his young years and studied under him. for some time. Finnegas at this time was focused on catching the mythical Salmon of Knowledge from the river Boine. Anyone who ate the flesh of this salmon, it was said, would receive all the knowledge in the world. And with the help of Finn, the Druid was finally able to capture the salmon, and the young warrior was then asked to cook it for the old man. It is said that Finn burnt his thumb on the salmon while cooking it. And when he put the burnt thumb in his mouth to call it off, he gained the wisdom in the fish. Perhaps recognising that Finn was fated for greatness, the druid then gave him the whole fish to eat. It was popularly believed that Finn could call on the wisdom of the salmon at any time from then on simply by sucking on his thumb. I have a penis that does that. Mark: You sad, sad individual. Andy: Once he had grown to be a young man, Finn McCall returned to the Fianna to avenge his father's death at the hands of Ghaul and assume his rightful place as their leader. And once victorious, he was promised the hand of the Irish king's daughter, Greinne. Mark: Sorry, am I missing something here? When do we get to the bloody giant's causeway story? Andy: That was, we've told you how it was built. He built it to stop his feet getting wet. Mark: Yes, but what's that got to do with all this marriage and children and the smartest bloke in Ireland had the brain of a fish? Andy: We're talking about the legend of Finn McCool. Mark: Is that after the Giant's Causeway or before it? Andy: ⁓ my god, it's Turing! He went from court to court. He crossed the sea using the Giant's Causeway. His bride, however, was in love with another. His lieutenant... Dermot something. On Finn's wedding night, the princess eloped with Dermot, with Finn and his warriors in hot pursuit. Finn McCall and the Fianna chased and found the pair, and they bravely faced their judgement. However, rather than killing them, Finn made peace with the couple, having overheard Mark: Dermot, Dermot. Andy: his wife complained to her father about the marriage and Dermot returned to his service. However, could still be vengeful. Years later, when Dermot was injured in a boar attack, Finn chose to let him die. Finn was said to have miraculous powers of healing and could have helped his lieutenant, but instead chose to punish him through inaction. There are many stories about the death of Finn McCall. Like King Arthur, many traditions believe that Finn McCall is not dead, but simply resting with the rest of the Fianna in a cave somewhere in the Shebeg and Shemore Hills. The tribe and its leaders will only wake up when the doored Fianna, the hunting horn of the tribe, is blown three times to defend Ireland in its darkest hour. Another account written by the poet, I'm not even going to attempt that, talks about how Finn was killed by Achlech Mac Ddren in a battle in County Meath in Eastern Ireland and defeated in battle, the legendary warrior was beheaded and his warriors scattered. And yet another account claims that he actually lived till an old age. and died while jumping the river Boyne, where he had caught the famous salmon many years before. Slipping, he accidentally banged his head on a rock and drowned. His body was carried downstream to Ackleck, who cut off his head to confirm that he was dead. Mark: I must have... As my brain literally switched off, I just don't understand the connection. Did you talk about this Finn whatever his name is, why he made the Giants Causeway? Andy: Yes, to stop his feet getting wet. I told you he was 54 feet high. Mark: You keep saying that! Andy: And he used, ⁓ you see, you're not even listening. Mark: I don't... I am listening, I'm just trying to keep a track of what's going on. So I keep hearing the fact that he was... so his feet didn't get wet. But what's that got to do with anything? What is... what... Andy: It's called the Giant's Causeway for a reason. So that the giant, Finn McCoyle, Finn McCool, could use the Causeway to traverse the waters. Mark: And that's the reason I'm waiting to hear. Andy: That's what a causeway is. Mark: But he was trekking around Ireland, wasn't he? He didn't walk across to America or something. Andy: I told you, Ireland and the Isle of Man. Mark: I mean you've got to stress these details otherwise it just goes straight over my head. So he walked from Ireland to the Isle of Man. Andy: So it's time for this. And now a word from our sponsors. Are you looking for a job as a podcast host? We have a vacancy at Strange Stuff podcast. Please send photograph. Recent. Mark: What's a photograph got to do with anything? ⁓ dear. Andy: Well, I'm willing to overlook what you sound like. Mark: So, and just tell me his name again, Phil McCall. Andy: ⁓ my god no. Finn McCool. Mark: Well, that was pretty bloody close. Finn McCoola. Andy: There are many more stories and traditions about this great warrior and hunter and the companions who travelled with him, and whatever the truth behind them, Finn McCool's legendary adventures offer a tantalising glimpse into Irish history. Mark: Well it's interesting that Ireland is known for little fairy people and what are the little people called? Leprechauns and giants. So they go for the two extremes. Andy: Leprechauns. Yeah, and basically he was said to have built the Giant's Causeway almost also as a battleground to fight a Scottish giant. Now, many of the stories of Finn McCall have made their way into later Arthurian traditions. The secret tryst between Finn's parents, the education by druids, and even the stories of his eternal slumber until his country needs him were all recycled into the tales of King Arthur. Much of the world the man lived in has been lost to time. Mark: King Arthur? What, King Arthur didn't have to eat salmon, did he? Andy: I told you what was used in King Arthur literally five seconds ago. Mark: Can you just scroll back up again and go go? Andy: The secret trist between his parents, the education by druids and the stories of eternal slumber until his country needs him. With these stories and the magnificent Giants Causeway to serve as a reminder, at least one link to the past, about which so much has been forgotten, remains unbroken. And that is the very, very great story of Finn McCall. Mark: Hmm. When are they going to call on him? How bad do you think it's going to have to get in Ireland before they call on him again? Andy: Well first they'll have to find the legendary horn before they can blow it three times I suppose. Mark: Hmm. Where will that be hidden? Somewhere on the Giant's Causeway. Andy: in my pants. Mark: ⁓ Andy. Your level of frustration must be so bad that your brain is not functioning anymore. Andy: Anyway, that was the myth. Now we're talk about the fact. Mark: yes, I can't wait for this. Andy: Well try and pay attention this time so that I don't have to repeat myself. Mark: You've got to intonate better when it comes to an important part of the story. You've got to say, is important. Andy: Okay, this is important. Mark: Go for it. Yes. Andy: That's how important it is. Mark: And now you've got a cat to distract you for God's sake. Andy: Yeah, now this this one this story comes from Vicky. Or this story. And it's the Newgrange ancient winter solstice temple in Ireland. Mark: What's that got to do with the Giant's Causeway? Andy: And I told you it was two stories, one myth and one fact. Okay. Mark: ⁓ so it's not a factual account of the giant's causeway and how it was formed? Andy: I told you in the beginning of the story how science says it was formed with a volcanic eruption. Mark: Yeah, I know, yeah, the plateau and all of that nonsense. Yeah, I got that bit. Andy: I despair. I'm gonna just call on my friends. Mark: You've got! Andy: Can you come and pick him up? Can you come and pick him up? Beam him up. Probe this fucker. Mark: So, alright, so what's this story about then? Andy: An ancient winter solstice temple. Mark: Winter Stasis Temple. Andy: And the massive tomb and mound of Newgrange is Ireland's most significant archaeological site. It was built around 3200 before Brian and it predates the ancient marvels of both Stonehenge and the Giza pyramids by hundreds of years. And this complex passage tomb is, which is also known as a chambered cairn. sits within a complex Neolithic landscape littered with other monuments and graves. Can you not press any buttons? Thank you. It is very famous for its astronomical significance. It's one of a few solstice marking graves in Europe. Archaeologists are now revealing its mysteries as they revisit the site. Located in Ireland's ancient east in County Meath, the passage tomb is about 50 kilometres north of Dublin. It's part of a complex landscape of monuments collectively known as the Bru na Bwynne, lying in the fertile valley of the river Bwynne, where we visited earlier with McCall. Mark: I remember that. Andy: The passage tombs of Nalth and Douth add 90 more graves and monuments and they also adorn the Boyne Valley. Antiquarians explored the area as early as the 17th century, but serious archaeology only began in the 1960s with a chap called Professor Michael J. O'Kelly. And archaeologists have debated whether Ireland's megalithic passage graves were a local innovation or an imported tradition. Ireland was home to Mesolithic hunter-gatherers until around 4000 BC. when a new population migrated from Britain or Brittany as it was in those days. These Neolithic peoples introduced agriculture, a protein rich diet and new rituals and beliefs about the afterlife. So even 4,000 years before Christ, they were trying to start a cult. genetic analysis of human bones from passage tombs across Ireland revealed that these Neolithic farmers initiated the construction of megalithic tombs in Ireland. Europe has only a few solstice graves, including Maishau, chambered cairn in Orkney, but none rival the size and spectacle as the one you find at Newgrange. While it's not the first passage tomb built in Ireland, is unquestionably the greatest. In the west of Ireland, two monument complexes at Carramore and Carraciel boast earlier but smaller passage graves. Caramore and Caracil and Loftcrew in the east include elevated plateaus, concentrations of graves and similar material culture, including artifacts like quartz pebbles and bone pins. All of these features are also found at Newgrange. And the size of Newgrange reveals the power and wealth of its rulers. Massive numbers of workers were used to quarry and transport colossal stone slabs. They moved the turf and boulders used to construct the mound well over 200,000 tonnes of stone and earth. His construction likely took decades. Designed to ore on several levels, those who viewed the passage tomb from the outside world would have noted both the massive diameter, which is about 85 metres, and the mound's height at about 12 metres. A high wall or curb surrounded the mound featuring large stone slabs with intricate swelled designs. Gleaming white quartz stones may have decorated an external wall or walkway alongside the mound. Just above the passage graves entry, a window-like roof box allowed the solstice sun to illuminate the passageway into the central chamber during the shortest days of the year. Over 5000 years ago, after New Grange's construction, the illumination would have come precisely at sunrise. Newgrange features some of the most famous examples of megalithic art in Europe. The external kerbstones include a range of symbols and designs. One of the kerbstones of the Newgrange mound displays very ancient designs. Mark: Why do you think they did this orientation for the shortest day of the year rather than the summer solstice where you would have the maximum amount of light into the chamber? Andy: I don't know. was obviously some kind of pagan ritual. Perhaps it was, perhaps it was to minimize the time you had to trans, transcend from wherever you are to wherever you're going. And you had to be absolutely pinpoint accurate about when you went. don't know. Mark: maybe maybe and of course you've got the contrast between the light and dark maybe Andy: I do. Yeah, anyway, the art was recorded as zigzags, lozenge shapes, concentric circles, spirals, U-motifs and radial motifs, often combined in careful patterns on a single stone. Inside the monument, orthostats and ceiling slabs include more spiral designs. including triscule or triple spiral patterns. This ordered artwork lends credence to conceptual design ideas, not just simple decoration, but perhaps artwork with cosmic significance. Mark: Ooh, alien activity. Andy: Only a select few would have access to the passage within the mound. Upon entering the passage tomb, crouching visitors would find a very narrow 19 metre long entry passage lined with orthostats or large stone slabs. On December 21st, winter solstice, the sun beams down the chamber. The passage ends at a central chamber with a high core-belled roof. Three smaller chambers radiate off the central location, each of which includes a basin for offerings or as a receptacle for buried remains. The chambers include grave goods, bone pins, ⁓ beads, pendants, as well as human remains of cremated individuals and one important set of undead. Bones. Mark: Gold. Andy: These unburnt, disarticulated bones belonged to a middle-aged man who was labelled NG10 in a study from Trinity College Dublin. Mark: take. Andy: Yes, with the only well preserved remains left in Newgrange, this man was the product of First Order incestuous union, designed to keep an elite ruling family intact over the Boyne Valley. The burial of NG10 and his unique bloodline have led scholars to refer to him as an Irish Pharaoh, indicative of sacred and secular power. Mark: So in Egypt at the same time they had people like Tutankhamun, an interesting name, but in Ireland they had NG10. Andy: whose mother and father were related by more than mere marriage. Mark: NG10. Hmm, think they could have come up with a better name. Andy: Yeah, but I wouldn't be able to pronounce it, so it's good job they didn't. Mark: you Andy: Archaeological excavations, remote sensing and drone surveys have revealed more monuments and features surrounding the area from later Neolithic age. Timber circles, crop marks and even possible key structures on the river Boyne may indicate travel paths and a ritual curses or a processional route leading to the passage tomb. Bronze age people has constructed both timber and stone circles around the site. A closer look at the exterior will give you clue as to how big it is. Mark: Are you allowed inside, you think, on December the 21st? Andy: While New Grange is clearly about demonstrating the ruling power, its higher purpose may have been more otherworldly. As a solar monument, it would have marked the turn of the year for this Neolithic farming culture, the solstice marking the start of longer days and a new season. So there's your answer. Mark: Yes. Why are you pausing? that's the end of the story. ⁓ Andy: Because that's it. That's the end of the story. I managed to actually stun you into silence. Well, actually, I can give you a little bit more. Mark: It was, you know, I always find these things. Andy: Newgrave, hang on, Newgrange, while not Celtic in origin, became an integral part of the medieval Irish mythology. And later Irish myth transformed the massive monument into the burial place of Dagda Mawr, who was the chieftain of the Toatha de Danann. And they were the pre-Celtic supernatural inhabitants of Ireland, driven underground and into mounds. when the early Irish came to the island. The great king Dagda oversaw both weather and harvest. Mark: Who? What? Andy: The great king Dagda oversaw both weather and the harvest. He was a sun god fitting for a monument built originally by agriculturists. And that is the end of our story of New Mark: I mean, when you think about it, these people were busy, they had a relatively sophisticated civilization and that was 3,000 years before Christ. Andy: Yeah. So it wasn't just the Egyptians building using vast amounts of labor and stone and natural resources. Mark: I mean obviously this 12 metre high mound on the east coast of Ireland is nothing like a bloody pyramid you see in Pisa or wherever it is they have the Giza, wherever they have these massive pyramids exactly of Niza. Andy: Easy, where they have the leaning pyramids. Mark: but it is still quite impressive isn't it? I I wonder how sophisticated their lives were. I mean they're not hunter-gatherers are they for Christ's sake? I mean they obviously had farms and you know it was agricultural based civilisation but it's still quite impressive. Andy: Well, mean, just finding the manpower to do it would have been a feat in itself. Mark: It's a good point because, you know, when you think of something like when they built the pyramids, you had tens of thousands of slaves doing these things. But I wonder what the population of Ireland was. The whole of the country had probably five thousand people. I was going to say, yeah, exactly. I would like to visit, you know, Stonehenge is just a pile of rocks. Andy: Ten thousand. It's Stonehenge's shit to be honest. Mark: but this this actually sounds like a you know a proper monument and it's a bit Dan Brownie isn't it when the light strikes at midnight or whatever midday on the 21st of December you get this shaft of light Andy: I mean, if you Google Newgrange, if you Google Newgrange, you'll see it's quite an impressive structure. Mark: Shaft of light. Andy: Anyway, that was it. was our myth of Finn McCool and the true story of New Grange solstice burial. Archaeological wonder. Mark: I think I would have liked more on how this bloody 54 foot giant actually constructed the causeway. Andy: He'd probably just shit it out after breakfast one morning. Mark: I was going to say, it's actually a collection of little turds. Andy: He's a supernatural being who can do what he wants. Mark: I wonder if that rock formation appears somewhere else in the world. It must do. It can't be unique to the Giants Causeway. Well, because... Andy: Why? Rock formations are unique simply because they're rock formations. Mark: No, but I mean, you know, these hexagonal column, crystal columns. Andy: Well, I'm sure there's underground caverns that have very similar sort of things that have been pushed up by volcanic activity over the centuries or over the millennia. Mark: Maybe, yeah. yeah, yeah. all right, jolly good. Jolly good. Yeah, I like that. I like these ones. You you actually learn something sort of a little bit. Andy: Did you like your photograph for the Venusian episode? Mark: No, but I did get a comment on the Marilyn Monroe episode. Worrying, I think, was the main... Yes, exactly. Andy: There were a couple of comments. Yeah, disturbed. One of Alex's friends was it, who was slightly disturbed. Mark: that's my brother-in-law disturbing yes now I haven't got and in fact the Vesuvian one you look like you know the alien but no one would ever recognize me you couldn't see me in my Venus alien character Andy: I'm not in control of the photographer unfortunately. Mark: yeah, yeah. All right. Good, well done, Andy, yes. Andy: Anyway, that brings us to the end of this wonderful episode. Mark: Yes, very good. ⁓ Andy: Join us again same time same place next week and if you're a Patreon you can join us again on Wednesday and if you're not a Patreon why not? Go to patreon.com backslash strange stuff podcast and join then you can get more of this nonsense on a weekly basis. Plus you'll get the murdery bits. There's a well over a hundred episodes there now which is kind of a lot. Mark: Yep. date. Indeed, yes. Yes. All right. Yep. Yes. Yep. Andy: Anyway, as we approach our episode 250, I've got to come up with a doozy. Mark: Yep. You're right. Expectations are running high. Andy: ⁓ Yeah, I have been asked by Luke if we've ever looked into strange happenings on film sets like a cursed production. So I'm going to have a little look at that. I know there's a few stories. Mark: Ghosties in Hollywood. Andy: Well, productions that were hounded by bad luck. We did The Wizard of Oz, which was hounded by nasty little people. Mark: Yes, the Wizard of Oz. Have we done a whole episode on that? And did we explain the political relevance of the characters within that story? Andy: But. Yeah, we did. No, because we were talking about how they nearly killed the Tin Man with his lead make-up. Mark: ⁓ that's right, yeah. Andy: and how poor old Dorothy was sexually assaulted on a daily basis by the Oompa Loompas or whatever they were called, the Munchkins. Mark: I can't remember what I was looking at the other day and they were talking about that the straw man is in fact supposedly representing the farmers in America. The tin man was the industrialists, the lion was the government. So it was all a political satire, you know, a bit Orwellian. Andy: Was it though, or did they just attribute those later? Mark: make it a bit more sophisticated. It was just a song along, sing along. Andy: Yeah, it was just a pantomime at the end of the day. Anyway, enough of that nonsense for now. We shall see you same time, same place next week. Have a strange one. Don't become a giant. That's all I've got. Mark: Yep. Yep. Yes, cheerio for now. ⁓