Latest / The Bigger Stage w/ Matt Stone / The Words You Don’t Say Are Sinking Your Business | Michael Gansl on Partnerships, Silence & Trust
Transcript
- BBR Pre-Launch Conversation - Michael Gansl === Matt Stone: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Building Business Relationship Show. I'm Matt Stone, and before we officially launch, we're exploring what matters most when it comes to relationships in business. These early episodes are about testing ideas, learning from great guests like we have today, and hearing what you think belongs in the conversation. Matt Stone: So please listen in, watch on YouTube, share your thoughts and help us shape what the show becomes. And as I mentioned today, joining me is a great guest. His name is Mike Gansl. Before we get into what Mike has to offer today, which he has a lot, let me just share a little bit about him. Mike is a principal in Voice of Reason Consulting, known as the Seasoned Voice of Reason. Matt Stone: He's a hands-on entrepreneur and trusted senior strategic business advisor. As an expert in growing companies across varied industries, mike specializes in working with accidental business owners, partners, and entrepreneurs of professional service companies who find themselves stuck and wanna scale their [00:01:00] companies and businesses to the next level. Matt Stone: Mike works with leaders and teams of individual contributors to implement business development and revenue growth opportunities. He's well known for his problem solving capabilities across marketing, sales, sales training, operations, partner mediation, and understanding the decisions that business owners need to make to achieve success. Matt Stone: So I have a feeling relationships plays into this somehow. Let's explore that now. Mike. Thank you for joining me. Michael Gansl: Well, thanks. Thanks, Matt. It's great to see you. And yes, it was really terrific with meeting in a network, a networking meeting quite a while ago and have become friends, really. Uh, it's fun and I'm glad to be here. Thank you for letting me come on your show. Matt Stone: You're one of my favorite people in Manhattan, so it's always good to connect with you. Tell us about a relationship that, that maybe came through business or that has a business connection to you that's made a big impact on your life and your business. Michael Gansl: A great question. So, [00:02:00] quite a number of years ago, I won't tell you how long, but a long time ago. Um, I met this fellow, and I'll mention his name, Alan Friedman. And I met him in Fire Island in actually Fair Harbor. And I was out of a job at the moment and, uh, I had been working in the healthcare field and I, I was tired of it. Michael Gansl: And Alan was teaching computer literacy at the American Management Association. And now in those days, pre 1980, what was computer literacy? Actually, he was putting together the computer language dictionary, which was this thin. Words like nanosecond, microsecond, microcomputer, those types of words. Michael Gansl: That was not in the, in, in the, uh, there was not in the lexicon at all. And I remember he said to me, we were sitting at the beach, you know, beautiful fair harbor on the, on the beautiful sand. And he says, would you like to come to my classes? And I go to all of his classes and that inspired me to really get into the computer [00:03:00] industry. Michael Gansl: Not only that, but he also got me a job in the computer industry. And so, I go back to the 1980s that I'm already selling micro computers and marketing micro computers. For quite some time, the five years working for small companies that went public and bust in what I call the Halcyan days of the computer world and the very beginning. Michael Gansl: And I owe it all to this fellow who was just generous enough to say, sure, you don't have to pay. Just come and sit. And then when he left the AMA, he let me sit on all his classes then. And the wonderful thing about Alan, I've lost touch with him, but that little, that little, uh, binder of the computer language dictionary became this thick in 37 languages and then was went on to a CD that was sold with every Dell computer when, those days. Michael Gansl: So I, I know he had great success and it was wonderful. So that was the impact, you know, how meet somebody by chance and then go from there. Matt Stone: Wow. How has that [00:04:00] relationship manifest in your mind over the years? When does it pop up in your head? What? What triggers that? Michael Gansl: Um, when everyone asks me, how did I get into this business? But I think about it 'cause I think, um, you know, how relationships, you know, whatever, wherever they start, can be so impactful and so meaningful. I can give you the ones that were negative, but I don't wanna talk about that. Matt Stone: Yeah. Michael Gansl: But, you know, I think of the positive ones and I think of the ones that people really made a change where I made a sea change in my life. And that was a sea change. Matt Stone: Yeah. Michael Gansl: 5 years working. Well, there I, I worked for some very charismatic people and then after that, I started my own business and I would not have been able to do that if it weren't for Alan and making that sea change and then working for some people who were just incredible charismatic people who inspired me. Matt Stone: Yeah. Every relationship has the opportunity to radically change the direction of your life. [00:05:00] Um, Matt Stone: and that was one of 'em. Uh, cool. Michael Gansl: Of course, my wife is another one too, but we're not gonna talk about that. Matt Stone: Right. I mean, I was thinking about my wife too, which is why the whole distinction between personal and business relationships has never really worked for me. Matt Stone: Because if it's a human being that you're in a relationship with, it's the context that's different. But the dynamics, you know, they're all consequential. Um, and so yeah. Michael Gansl: You know, just consequential. So look, I'm 30, 38, 39. My wife is five months pregnant. And, uh, I come home one afternoon and I say, Gladys, I've got good news for you and I've got bad news for you. Which would you like first? And she says, the good news. I said, I wanna start my own business. She says, gimme the bad news. Michael Gansl: I said, Michael Gansl: I wanna start my own business. Michael Gansl: And she says, well, where are we gonna get the money? I said, we're gonna get the money out of the bank. She says, but we don't have a lot of money. You know, we have $5,000. I said, I know, but I, I think this is a chance I need to do. Michael Gansl: Now Michael Gansl: she stuck with me. said, okay. Michael Gansl: She called some of my [00:06:00] friends and she said, look, do you think Michael, do you think he can do it? And they said yes. And so she went along with me, but it wasn't easy in those first few years. So without her never happen. Matt Stone: Oh my goodness. I'm thinking of my own examples of that with my wife too. It's so powerful when someone believes in you. Michael Gansl: That's, that's the original partnership when you think about it. Matt Stone: Yeah. That's right. Matt Stone: So let's build on this and pull this thread a little bit. So just thinking about all the clients you've worked with, you've helped businesses grow revenue and look at the connective tissue Matt Stone: between all the different pieces of the business that need to happen in order for revenue to grow. It's not always just a one thing, you know, get a new salesperson. And I know you're really strategic in looking at how the operations are fitting with sales and everything else. Um, where do you see relationship issues bubble up in the clients that you've worked with over the years? Michael Gansl: I'll start with my own partnership. You know, um, I've been business partners with, uh, Matt Plociak for 29 years [00:07:00] in two businesses, so 15 years in a network systems integration company, 10 years separate, although our friendship continued, best friends, et cetera. And then the last, uh, 14 years, Voice of Reason consulting, consulting together. Michael Gansl: And so, you know, and I go back to the early days. We were in business for about, oh, I don't know, 30 days a month. And we're standing nose to nose. We're about to hit each other because two type A guys, it's like, I want it my way. No, I want it my way. No, my no, no. And so we realized you know, if that partnership was going to succeed, we really had to do something about our egos. Michael Gansl: We had to really figure out what was more important to us, our ego or our business. So actually just, uh, a little thing. In those days, both of us actual therapy with separate therapists. But we went to Matt's therapist first, and it didn't really go right [00:08:00] for us. We went to my therapist. And then interestingly enough, for the next 15 years, every six weeks, Matt and I went and met with a psychotherapist who was an industrial psychologist and here's what we learned. And by the way, when we had a third partner, he came with us. And when we had a junior partner, he came with us. And here's what we did in those sessions. The words that are not said, sink the business. Michael Gansl: Simple as that. The words that are not said sink the business. And that is really what it's all about. We get down to the human level, you get down to the very basic thing of communication. How do you feel when somebody says something to you? What does it mean when they say it's okay? What does that really mean? Michael Gansl: And. For 15 years now, we grew that company very successfully, that was the basic premise. The words that are not said, sink the business. And so work with partners, [00:09:00] and I've worked with partners in my consulting practice and I've worked with partners in that systems integration company as well, that's been always present. What's not being said in any relationship. Michael Gansl: Doesn't matter whether you're a business partner or not. What's not being said? What are the words? What is the conversation that's going on in their head, matt-stone_3_11-06-2025_114026: which Michael Gansl: is actually not necessarily coming outta the mouth? In fact, there was a time in the beginning when I used to say to Matt, if you want me to understand what you're saying, you have to move your lips, because he was already having that conversation that was going on inside his head. So I've currently worked with business partners. And I'm always trying to figure out what are they not saying? And I give them a safe space so that things come out and, you know, when I meet with them, I'll say, so what's, what's happening? Michael Gansl: And then they'll give me the top level, the surface and stuff, and then I stop [00:10:00] and five minutes of silence until, and I say nothing, until something gets said. And then the, the works happens. And now in those sessions, I might speak about 10% of the time. 90% of the time they're saying, they're talking, they're communicating with one another. Michael Gansl: And you know, maybe a little bit, I can direct it a little bit, maybe point out something. But they're doing the work. Matt Stone: It is interesting to me too, because when you talk about that silence, which is so powerful, I mean, we want to fill the vacuum, especially if there's nervousness around it, that silence is really important communication. Matt Stone: Now I've learned that from my partner Matt. yeah. Michael Gansl: I remember we used to go to meetings and, and I would just, you know, vomit it all over the place, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom. And Matt would, and when I'd go to the meeting and he would be leaving the meeting, it was like, he would just wait, what? What? You know, it's [00:11:00] like, and it's was, it was powerful. Matt Stone: Yeah. Yeah. Michael Gansl: moment. Let people talk. You know that five minutes live with the silence, be comfortable with it, and I learned that from my partner. Matt Stone: When I'm successful at having the patience and presence to do it, it feels powerful. 'cause you're, you're literally pulling someone without doing anything. You're just, your energy is pulling and eventually something's gonna come out. Um. And if there's a basis of a good relationship there, right, then your likelihood, 'cause I've also worked with teams and maybe you have too, where the trust is so broken that it's just a fortress and it's just the walls are so thick, the incentives there, people are disincentivized to say anything real. Matt Stone: And that is the point. That is the message that gets out is we, we need, we gotta go back to just building a relationship first before we can even get to anything. You're reminding me too, of a, a mentor years ago [00:12:00] who, um, the, the, the framing of the question that he would do to get that was, what is it that we don't want to talk about? Michael Gansl: Hmm. Matt Stone: Okay. Listen, just a couple more questions. 'cause these are pretty lightning round things. Um, what are we not talking about enough, in your view, in the public square, if you will, online and in other venues about relationships that we should be? Michael Gansl: Hmm. Michael Gansl: You know, I think we are at a really interesting point in terms of technology and humanness. Now, obviously I could say AI. Okay, so I think that really we are at a very interesting point of, in the very beginning, the precipice of how much of our humanness do we give up to technology? And this is now you think about it 'cause, um, the commercial internet really didn't happen until the eighties, the mid, mid to late eighties. [00:13:00] Right? And, and networking, computer networking didn't really happen until the late eighties as well, and that's not a very long time. And so the technology window prior to, let's say 1980 was a long window. Michael Gansl: Now the windows got shorter and shorter and shorter. So now the windows literally, I mean it's, it's sometimes beyond our imagination as to how short this AI technology window is. And so now the issue that so many people are having is, how do we incorporate that into our lives? What does it mean for our humanness? Michael Gansl: I mean, we're talking about people losing their jobs, thousands and thousands of people losing their jobs. Why? 'cause those entry level jobs are now being done by technology. Now that always happens, but it's never happened this rapidly. That's the issue. And so it's so fast that as humans and, and human [00:14:00] relationships, we don't know quite how to deal with it. Michael Gansl: So, many of us will say, well, well, it's gonna take over the world. So it's inevitable. there are other people who are saying, no, I don't wanna give up my humanness. And I think that you can talk about relationships. We're talking then about relationships to technology and then the relationships to ourselves. Michael Gansl: And I don't know if we're equipped to, to totally handle it with the rapidity that's happening Matt Stone: Yeah. You're right. the speed of change is getting faster and, um, yeah. Michael Gansl: But so fast. It's, it's not just getting faster. It, it's, it's, it's blink. Our eyes are blinking, you know, if, um, look, I'm a sales guy, right? And, uh. My partner, Matt, sent me an article, I think it was in the Harvard Business Review, about how people are using AI prompts and such to basically take over the sales process. Michael Gansl: So in, in a sense, if you wanna [00:15:00] follow out to its extension, it's like, you know, we eventually, we don't need salespeople because AI is gonna do it all. Somebody's just gonna sit there, you know, look up the right prompt. Next prompt. The next prompt. And then, you know, we talked about entry level people. Michael Gansl: Well, you know, I thought sales is both an art and a science. It's a craft. Matt Stone: right. Michael Gansl: So it's just, that is, so that's just change. It's not just speeding up, Matt Stone: Yeah. Michael Gansl: It's almost the speed of light. Matt Stone: Yeah. And of course the anxiety around the unknown, because nobody actually knows exactly how it's gonna play out. Not one person in the world knows exactly how this is gonna play out. That's the thing. So it creates this vacuum, and boy, humans do not like that. I mean, that, that, you know, the unpredictability, can't see around the corner. Matt Stone: So, I, I don't know. We'll see how all this plays out. Humans. Humans, like other humans. Let's face [00:16:00] it. We like fighting, but we also like to love each other. So I, I don't know, Michael Gansl: that, that, that's the saving grace. Matt Stone: Right? Yeah, Michael Gansl: humans, humans love humans. Matt Stone: Yeah. Michael Gansl: Uh, certainly yes. That's the saving grace. Matt Stone: It is. Michael Gansl: So that's what we have to hold onto. Matt Stone: We have to, Michael Gansl: We have to figure out a way to do that. Matt Stone: Yes. Yes. Um. Michael Gansl: Hopefully your show is gonna help that. Matt Stone: Well that, and we'll finish with that question. So what's, what are you excited about with the launch of the show? Michael Gansl: You, Matt Stone: Oh. Michael Gansl: I love your energy. I love your enthusiasm. I love the fact that, uh, you're gonna probe a lot of interesting people. Ask them some great questions. Uh, actually, you're gonna show their humanness. You are gonna show them why it's okay to be human. And if there's anything I can do to help you with that, uh, you know, you can count on me. Matt Stone: Well. Michael Gansl: what I think would be great. You are gonna show people who are experts in whatever business in their field, but you are gonna aim for, know, what's the humanness. Uh, [00:17:00] that's, that's a great thing. Michael Gansl: At least that's my opinion. We'll see. Matt Stone: We are gonna do that together because I will be inviting you onto the panels as well. So start getting hair and makeup ready and everything. Um. Michael Gansl: Oh, I got a haircut right now. You know, Matt Stone: I do have a great hair, a hairdresser. If you need somebody like, you know, they, it guaranteed results. You'll get the same cut every time. Um, I remember I was, God, where was I, I was staying at someplace and they said, um, oh, do you need shampoo? And I said, I just, I went like. To the person and they looked at my head and they went, they just almost puked laughing. Matt Stone: They were, Michael Gansl: you still have to, you still have to have good skincare. I'm sure you have to be careful with the sun and all of that. It's not, it's not, uh, you know. Matt Stone: it is not, does not free you of the obligation to maintain. Yeah. Mike, an absolute joy as always to connect with you. Now I wanna just go Matt Stone: grab a coffee and keep the conversation going. We'll have to do that, [00:18:00] so. Matt Stone: Thank you for listening and watching the Building Business and Relationship Show. Matt Stone: This pre-launch phase is all about discovery as you've seen. So if something sparked your interest, I'd love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, ideas or guest suggestions or topic suggestions especially, and help us shape the conversations to come. And of course, subscribe, especially on YouTube. Matt Stone: Please go to our channel on YouTube Building Business Relationships Show on YouTube, and then you'll be the very first to know, uh, when, not only when we officially launch, but in the meantime when new content drops. And thanks again. We'll see you next time.