Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #200: Preparing for Eternity: Catholic Funerals, Burials & Hope

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Catholic Conversations #200: Preparing for Eternity: Catholic Funerals, Burials & Hope · Catholic Spirit Radio

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Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
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Welcome to Catholic Conversations. I'm your host, Teresa Chambers.
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I'm excited to be talking with Fr. David Richardson, pastor of Epiphany Parish in Normal, Illinois.
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Welcome, Fr. David. How are you? It's great to be with you.
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Yeah, and for those of us who don't know, tell us a little bit about yourself and Epiphany Parish.
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So I was born actually in New Jersey, but I was raised in the suburb of Chicago.
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I grew up in St. Charles. I went to University of Illinois for college before entering the seminary.
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I went to St. Mindred Seminary. It's a Benedictine monastery in southern Indiana.
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And I was ordained a priest in 2003. So I just celebrated 23 years as a priest.
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And my first three years, I was at St. Matthew in Champaign.
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For 18 years, I was at St. Philomena in Peoria. And for the last two years,
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I've been at Epiphany in Normal.
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Just a great, great congregation. There's a typical parish with a school attached.
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And it's about 370 kids or so in the school, pre-K through eight.
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Probably about, I don't know the exact number, maybe about 1,300,
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1,400 families in the parish.
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It's a great community. Yeah, Epiphany is one of the many parishes that we have
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in the Bloomington Normal area, and we're so glad to have you here today.
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Father, I know you have a remarkable story about how you came into the priesthood.
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Can you take us back to the beginning of your discernment journey and walk us
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through how God called you?
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Sure, there's so many, so many details to think about being called to being
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a priest. And I'd be honest with you, my first memory, one of my first memories
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in life, I was five years old.
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As I said, I was born in New Jersey. My parents moved back to the Chicagoland
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area and had a new house built. And they had a priest come out to bless the house.
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And I remember looking up at him, thinking, that's what I want to do as a five-year-old,
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as he was walking around blessing the house.
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And between that and the moment when the bishop had his hands on my head and
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ordaining me, there was a lot of ups and downs and challenges and thoughts and
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prayers and all those kinds of things.
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But very specifically, recently, I had shared a story at a small group at Epiphany,
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that kind of was one of those drivers that convinced me to step in.
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I was finishing up at the University of Illinois and getting ready to graduate.
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And during the University of Illinois, I had switched from computer science major to psychology.
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I was thinking about being a priest, and I had gotten confirmed at U of I at
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the Newman Center when I was 21, and I was discerning then priesthood and that or being a counselor.
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And I was really thinking about going on and working with people and doing some counseling.
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So I was looking at grad schools for counseling and, but I kept,
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you know, getting this nudge to discern priesthood. And it was a priest I had
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gotten to know, Father Mike Bliss, who was at the Newman Center when I was confirmed.
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I called him up and I said, listen, I'm not sure what to do here.
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I'm thinking about being a priest, but I'm not sure. He says,
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you got to go on this vocation retreat, Emmaus days. So I went on the Emmaus days and.
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Came back, and after that kind of had decided to go in.
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But in the midst of that time, I was renewing my commitment to the rosary,
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praying through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary,
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getting to know some of the history of the rosary and praying the rosary and
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different miraculous signal graces that happen around praying the rosary.
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And one of them I had heard about or read about was that rosary is turning gold
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and different signs that God would give that someone's on the right path or doing the right thing.
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But as I was discerning, kind of going into priesthood was struggling with it
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a little bit, be honest with you, emotionally struggling with the commitment and all that.
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And I was praying the rosary one night and kind of cried myself to sleep,
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be honest with you, put the rosary around my neck and went to sleep.
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It's really not jewelry, not supposed to necessarily wear the rosary, but I did at that time.
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And I woke up in the morning and all of the metal chains on the rosary around
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under the black beads had all turned gold.
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Except for three, which were the three around the Blessed Virgin Mary,
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which for me at the time signaled her humility.
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And it was an instant sign to me there that the Lord was putting me down the right path.
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And I was kind of inspecting the rosary and looking at all the gold chains.
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And you could kind of see through on each of the links that they were gold all
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the way through, except the one that was around the crucifix.
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It was a solid gold ring. And in my head at the time, I thought,
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you know, if that's really gold all the way through, then this is really a miracle
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and it's where I'm supposed to be.
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Well, I ended up deciding to go into seminary and I started at St.
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Minard and I was on a rosary walk one day, probably about a year later after this had happened.
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And I was praying with that rosary. My shoe was untied. I reached down to tie
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my shoe and I stood up and the crucifix on the rosary got caught under my shoe.
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And as I stood up, it broke loose. And the first thought in my head was,
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I wonder if that ring is gold all the way through.
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And that held the crucifix and looked at it and inspected it.
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And sure enough, it was, and it was kind of like, okay, I'm on the right path.
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And there was four more years of seminary prayer and discernment and study and
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all that from that point on. But it was kind of the convincing thing for me
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at the time that I was where I was supposed to be by the Lord.
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And, you know, he was walking there with me.
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Yeah, that's really kind of, it's just amazing. I mean, it's not very common,
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I'm sure, when that happens.
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So, like, what did you do with it?
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It's, I had to be honest with you, I shared the story with a friend years later
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after I was ordained a priest, and she ended up taking that rosary and put it
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in one of those shadow boxes where you can hang it on the wall.
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So it kind of hangs in my office, you know.
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So I pray with, I kind of have a tradition, wherever I go, I buy rosaries.
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So I have a lot of rosaries, a lot, kind of a collection of rosaries.
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And so that one just kind of sits in a shadow box on a wall.
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I don't really pray with that one anymore. Well, that's really amazing.
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How do you think that prayer with the rosary helped you in your discernment?
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Well, the rosary obviously is to enter into meditations on the life,
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death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and sharing in the prayers of the Blessed
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Virgin Mary and leading us closer to a deeper understanding of the personhood
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of God and developing that relationship with God, pulling God into our lives.
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And so any prayer where we're talking to God, we're kind of sifting through
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and thinking through our own lives and how our lives relate to God.
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And so I think that in my own discernment, it was really asking God to guide
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me in my own thoughts and help me to understand my own desires for priesthood,
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which was specifically saying the Mass and hearing confessions.
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To be honest with you, bringing the Eucharist to people and bringing healing
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and forgiveness to people was what was most on my heart in discernment as I
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was getting ready to be ordained.
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And that just kind of those conversations and through the rosary helps us to
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really focus in on what Jesus did for us, how he laid down his life for us,
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how much he loves us and how that love is supposed to spark an interest of returning love.
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And it was the way in which I just felt like the Lord was asking me to respond to him.
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And what would you say to a young man today, even an older man,
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who feels a stirring towards the priesthood but isn't sure?
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Well, there's so many ways of discerning and talking to the Lord about it.
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But once there is an interest in one's own heart or one's seriously thinking
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about it, the first is talking to either your parish priest or from your parish
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priest calling the diocese and talking to the Father Chase at the Office of Vocations.
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He just does a great job of recruitment and helping the guys to discern whether
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or not a call into the seminary is for them.
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Obviously, the discernment for priesthood leads to seminary,
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and the seminary's role is to help with that discernment, to help with education,
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and help with the formation that allows a guy to both for himself to discern if it's for him.
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He feels called to living a life as a priest, serving as a priest,
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but also for the diocese to discern, Is this a man that the bishop would like
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to ordain to serve in his church, to serve in his diocese?
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So there's many voices that get involved in the discernment of somebody into the priesthood.
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And it's not just in my own day, to be honest with you, early on,
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I felt like it was all on me and it was all something I had to think about,
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all I had to discover and learned over the years. Obviously,
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there's many voices involved and many people involved to help with that discernment.
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And it's a two-way street. It's the church discerning you and the man discerning
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the church and ministry and helping that decision come about.
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Yeah. And when we think about discernment, a lot of people may have heard the
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word, but they might not actually know the process or what that means.
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Yeah, discernment really is just thinking through things with God.
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I mean, it's a conversation. Our prayer really is basic.
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It's conversation with God. And discerning through things is recognizing that
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God has something to say to us. God's created us all in His image and likeness.
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He has a particular relationship with us. He knows us better than we know ourselves.
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And when we discern something or talk to God about something,
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we're allowing the voice of God to speak back to us.
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And it's opening ourselves up to hearing God's voice. And unless you get a vision
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of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and they tell you what to do, answered prayers are nudged
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thoughts where we get inspired.
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Just all the biblical authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the
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scriptures and to reveal what God was communicating to them.
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And it's the same way for all of us in discernment that we allow the Holy Spirit
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to speak to us to bring some clarity to our own desires and see how our desires
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can match up with the desire of God.
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Well, and I think that that's a great transition to discernment with what you
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came to talk about today, which is preparing for Catholic burial and Catholic funerals.
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And it's interesting because both of my parents have passed and I had a new,
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you know, it's one of the things you really don't look forward to in life is
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putting your parents to rest.
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And, you know, I was the youngest of six and I really had a lot of solace in
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the fact that the structure is there you know what to expect.
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And the priests were great that we worked with and you know it just really helps
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that we have an order to it you don't have to just figure it all out we have
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to trust that God has a process and it's it's it's already ready to go.
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Yeah, certainly. There's so many levels to think about when we talk about the
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funeral rites and preparing for the passing of ourselves or for our loved ones.
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But essentially, the funeral liturgy is to do several things.
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One, especially the Mass, is to pray for somebody who's died and asking God's
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mercy to be upon them, that they be healed and forgiven of their sins and to
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be welcomed into the eternal kingdom.
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Secondly, it's a looking ahead to the final resurrection as just as Jesus received
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his body back as he resurrected himself that we believe we will share in that
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resurrected form in the body at the end of time.
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So we're kind of looking ahead in a hopefulness to the end of time when all
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of our souls are reunited with our bodies at the end of time.
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And it allows for the people who have been left behind to grieve and for the
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church to to grieve with the people and to have prayer together to support each other.
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So it's really those three main aspects that the church is trying to do with
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the liturgy of the funeral.
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So when you're planning a funeral, there are kind of certain parts to the Mass.
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Do you want to go over those and kind of what the main points of what we're,
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doing every time? Sure. Yeah, the going ahead. So on a typical,
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for me as a parish priest, when someone passes, usually the funeral home calls the church.
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If I know them really well, I know they're in the dying process.
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Sometimes I'll be in communication with the family as it's taking place.
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And, you know, obviously there's the sacrament of anointing and the apostolic
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pardon, which is a forgiveness of sin. It's a wiping someone clean.
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You really want to pray for it. Make sure you get that before you go on to meet our maker.
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There's a praying or preparing for death with the person who's dying.
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But then when the family calls, the funeral home, then usually you meet with
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the family once you pick a date and a time, those kind of structural things are done.
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When you meet with the family, the two main things that the family really needs
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to pick out, and be honest with you, it's great if people would do it themselves.
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Before they pass themselves because it really helps the family in those moments.
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But it's picking the music for the funeral. So you have an opening hymn,
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a closing hymn, an offertory hymn, and a communion hymn.
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And then there's the readings that are read. So typically there's an Old Testament
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reading, a New Testament reading, and a gospel reading.
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And there's a lectionary book that's specifically for funeral liturgies that
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the families can walk through and pick it out.
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But I have many people that pick it out themselves and hand it on file or meet
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with me, even be honest with you, before they pass and say, this is what I want for my funeral father.
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And it makes it a lot easier on loved ones not to have to make those decisions
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because there certainly are a lot of decisions to be made once someone passes.
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But that's kind of the initial structure of setting up the mass and having the mass said.
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There's so many beautiful prayers
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that are involved in the funeral liturgy itself, but we start the liturgy.
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It can be started at the funeral home the night before. There's specific prayers
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that can be done for the vigil that points to the Mass being said.
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There can be prayers that are said over the body. Obviously,
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we have a reverence for the body because it houses our souls during this life.
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And so a lot of the prayers of the Mass, the funeral Mass, are about having
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a thanksgiving for the physical body that our loved ones had while they were in this world.
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Obviously, we're thinking about their soul going on and journeying to God.
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But there's a kind of a dichotomy of looking at both of the beauty of the body
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and the soul and how they were united in this world. And the soul then goes
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on to be with God. And so when we start the funeral mass, there's obviously
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the introductory rites and that we do at every mass.
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But then there's first then a blessing with holy water, obviously the.
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The first sacrament of the church is baptism. Baptism is the doorway into all the other sacraments.
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Can't receive Eucharist or forgiveness or confirmation, any of the other sacraments
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without being baptized first. And so we're reminded at our funeral liturgy that
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the person has been baptized. So there's a sprinkling with holy waters in the waters of baptism.
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I use me, David died with Christ and rose to life with him. May he now share
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in eternal glory. And water is sprinkled on the casket or the remains of the person.
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There also is a funeral pall that is placed over the casket and the funeral
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pall like at baptism, holy water is used to baptize.
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The funeral pall represents the white garment that's placed upon us when we
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are baptized, showing purity and forgiveness and incorporation into Jesus Christ.
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We're a member of his community, his body of Christ, of the church.
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And so it's a reminder of that.
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And there can also be, a Bible could be placed in the casket,
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or a crucifix can be placed on the casket and blessed as a sign of religious symbols.
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And then it starts with an opening prayer. There's so many beautiful prayers
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to pick from, but one example is, O God, whose nature it is always to forgive
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and to show mercy, we humbly implore you for your servant David,
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whom you have called to journey to you.
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And since he hoped and he believed in you, grant that he may be led to our true
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homeland in heaven to delight in everlasting joys.
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One of the things that we believe as Catholics is we pray what we believe and we believe what we pray.
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And so all of the prayers of the Mass is beautiful. All the prayers of the Mass
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are statements of faith, statements of things that we hold to be true.
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And from the opening prayer, it leads us obviously into the liturgy of the Word,
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the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Gospel reading, the celebration of the Mass.
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And we pray the Mass specifically for the person who's passed on,
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asking that the grace of Jesus Christ that He won on the cross 2,000 years ago
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is applied to the person who we're saying the Mass for.
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So whenever a Mass is said from the intention of anyone, we're asking that the
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efficacious grace of Jesus Christ is applied to them, that healing and forgiveness is given.
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Immediately after distribution of communion towards the end of the Mass,
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there's a couple parts that are key. There's a final commendation.
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We commend the person to God with some beautiful prayers. And it starts off
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to the people, before we go our separate ways, let us take leave of our brother.
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May our farewell express our affection for him.
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May it ease our sadness and strengthen our hope.
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And one day we shall joyfully greet him again when the love of Christ conquers
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all things and destroys even death itself.
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And then there's often a song, Farewell. That song, it's a beautiful song.
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Different churches use a couple different versions, but it really helps people
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to have that kind of goodbye song.
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And then immediately after that, there's the prayer of commendation.
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The priest prays, Into your hands, Father of mercies, we commend our brother
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David in the sure and the certain hope. So it's always looking ahead.
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We're hoping that together with all those who have died in Christ,
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that he will rise with him on the last day.
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And we give you thanks for the blessings which you bestowed upon David in this life.
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For there are signs to us of your goodness. and of our fellowship with the saints
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in Christ. Merciful Lord, turn toward us and listen to our prayers.
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Open the gates of paradise to your servant and help us who remain here to comfort
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one another with assurances of faith until we all meet in Christ and are with
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you and our brother forever.
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We ask this through Christ our Lord.
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Amen. And there's actually then the mass at church ends then and there's a procession
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then to the place of burial.
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So it's actually that the mass is not ended then. The blessing is not given until after the burial.
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So there's a procession that takes place immediately after that when we leave
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church after the closing hymn.
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And, you know, I appreciate you reading some of the earlier parts,
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the starts of the mass prayers, because a lot of times when it's your loved
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one, you're in your emotional state and you're not really hearing what the priest is saying.
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As much as you probably should be listening, you're probably not really hearing
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it. You're just trying to not cry and you're trying to make sure that aunt so-and-so
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is being nice to brother so-and-so and cousin so-and-so.
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And so, you know, I think that it's amazing how we have all of this in place
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to reassure us that there is hope after all of it's said and done, the dust is settled.
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It's not going to be the end and the end doesn't have to be a bad thing.
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It can be full of life and love again.
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So, you know, as a child, a Catholic family child, where you're the youngest
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of six, you go to a lot of funerals growing up.
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And when you're the youngest, you're the person that everyone wants to hold
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and play with and you get all the attention.
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So I grew up going to funerals a lot when I was a kid. And I always thought
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that they were fun because everybody wanted to talk to me. Everybody wanted
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to hold me and sit with me.
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I was like the person that gave everyone hope because I was a young child.
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So I appreciate the fact that the mass is hopeful.
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It's not a negative thing because a lot of us have, you know,
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may have sour memories of when our loved one died or when a close loved one
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died. And, you know, it was all we could do to pray to get through the mass,
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to get through the burial, to get to the next part.
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And so I appreciate you sharing some of those prayers with us.
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We're coming up on a break, so we're going to transition a little bit here.
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It has great information to get you started on your will. We're going to take a quick break.
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This is Catholic Conversations with Teresa Chambers, and I'm here with Father
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David, who is the pastor at Epiphany Parish in Normal, Illinois.
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Welcome back to Catholic Conversations. I am your host, Teresa Chambers.
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I am here with Father David Richardson from Epiphany Parish in Normal,
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Illinois, where he is the pastor, and we have been talking about his discernment
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story, and we also are talking about,
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Christian burial and funeral topics.
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And so we kind of went through the structure of the Christian Mass of burial,
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but there's a part after the Mass is over that we're not quite done yet.
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Yeah, so after the Mass is completed at the church, the blessing is actually
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not given at the end of the Mass in church. There's the procession to the burial.
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There can be times and considerations where burials could happen at a later
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date, but typically it happens immediately after the Mass, and we'd have a procession,
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to the burial ground. And once we get there, we're.
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Saying a prayer of blessing over the place where the burial is going to take place.
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And so we get to the burial ground and we pray, Our brother David has gone to
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his rest in the peace of Jesus Christ. May the Lord now welcome him to the table
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of God's children in heaven. So we're looking forward to that gift of heaven.
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And with faith and hope in eternal life, we pause and assist him with our prayers.
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And then we pray to the Lord also for ourselves. May we who mourn here be reunited
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one day with our brother.
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And together may we meet Christ Jesus when he who is our life appears in glory.
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So it's again looking ahead to reunification with our loved ones when we get
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to the kingdom of heaven.
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And so then there's a prayer of blessing that takes place with using blessing
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of the holy water as well to bless the burial ground.
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And the priest was saying, Lord Jesus Christ, by your own three days in the
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tomb, you hallowed the graves of all those who believe in you.
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And so you made the grave a sign of hope that promises us resurrection,
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even as it claims our mortal bodies.
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Grant that our brother may sleep here in peace until you awaken him to glory,
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for you are the resurrection and the life.
22:47
And then he will see you face to face, and your light will see light.
22:50
And know the splendor of God, for you live and reign forever and ever. Amen.
22:56
And then after the ground is blessed, the prayer of committal actually takes place.
23:00
Because God has chosen to call our brother from this life. We commit him here
23:04
to the earth for we are dust and unto dust we shall return.
23:08
But the Lord Jesus Christ will change our mortal bodies to be like his own in
23:12
glory for he is risen, firstborn of the dead.
23:15
So we now commend our brother to the Lord that the Lord may embrace him in peace
23:19
and raise him up on the last day.
23:22
And at most liturgies, we can pray intercessions, and we pray again the Lord's
23:26
Prayer, just as we did at Mass. We pray the Lord's Prayer together out at the burial.
23:30
And then there's the concluding prayer and blessing, which is really beautiful.
23:34
And the priest prays, Almighty God, through the death of your Son on the cross,
23:38
you destroyed our death.
23:39
Through his rest in the tomb, you hallowed the graves of all who believe in you.
23:43
And through his rising again, you restored us to eternal life.
23:46
God of the living and of the dead, accept our prayers for those who have died
23:50
in Christ and are buried with him in the hope of rising again.
23:54
Since they were true to your name on earth, let them praise you forever in the
23:58
joy of heaven. Through Christ our Lord.
24:00
Amen. And there's a blessing. Merciful Lord, you know the anguish of the sorrowful.
24:04
You are attentive to the prayers of the humble. Hear your people who cry out
24:08
to you in their need and strengthen their hope in your lasting goodness.
24:12
Through Christ our Lord.
24:13
Amen. And eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine
24:17
upon him. And may he rest in peace.
24:20
Amen. And may his soul and all the souls of the faithful departed through the
24:23
mercy of God rest in peace.
24:25
Amen. And may the peace of God, which is beyond all understanding,
24:28
keep your hearts and minds and the knowledge and the love of God and of his
24:31
son, our Lord Jesus Christ.
24:34
And then the blessing is given. And obviously you can see there's a strong look
24:38
to the relationship we have with what Jesus Christ has done for us, how we share in that.
24:43
And we want that to be applied to our loved ones. And we can look ahead to that
24:47
being applied to ourselves as well as we pray what we believe and we believe what we pray.
24:52
So that concludes the funeral liturgy, yeah.
24:55
Yeah, and you know, I feel like
24:57
funerals have really kind of diminished in their importance over time.
25:03
Because we used to have two days worth of visitation, we had a rosary,
25:08
and then there was the Mass on the third day.
25:11
And it's like now everything, sometimes it gets squeezed into just a couple
25:14
hours of visitation right before the Mass.
25:16
Is there like kind of a recommended way that we're supposed to do that as Catholics?
25:20
I agree. There's probably been some changes even during my 20 years of priesthood.
25:24
I've seen some changes where less people do the visitations beforehand or handle
25:30
the funeral liturgy a little bit different and less time given,
25:33
there's probably so many reasons for it.
25:35
I don't know, people's time and schedules and part of the economy,
25:39
funerals are not cheap. You know, there's obviously there's.
25:43
Especially with the burial and the casket. And there's a lot of things to purchase.
25:47
And so there's that aspect of it as well.
25:50
I think some of it, there's not as much the practice of the faith and understanding
25:55
of the funeral liturgy where people long for that and ask for that.
25:58
And sometimes people in their own dying days don't make it clear to their family
26:02
that they want this for them.
26:04
And maybe the kids or others in the family don't know exactly what they wanted,
26:08
or don't have the same relationship with the church where they would know what to do.
26:12
And often then lean into others to give explanations of what ought to be done.
26:17
And if they don't get the right person giving them the right answers,
26:20
then sometimes things don't get done for the people. But I always recommend
26:25
at least a Mass being said, even if there's not the funeral liturgy.
26:29
Every Mass you go to at church is being prayed for someone, living or deceased.
26:33
And the Mass is being offered for people. And you should always have a Mass
26:37
said for anybody who's died, Anybody you've known, any of you loved, and
26:41
you want to have the grace and power of Jesus Christ crucified applied to them,
26:45
no matter how long ago they passed, having a Mass said for them is the best
26:49
thing that you can do for a loved one.
26:51
Right. And so a lot of people might have been baptized Catholic,
26:54
but then they may have fallen away or they don't go to church a lot.
26:58
And they might have kids, they might have baptized them, but then they haven't
27:01
gone to church a lot. So then they don't really understand that process anymore.
27:06
So, what is, you know, what are you supposed to do when you're not sure?
27:10
Call and ask your priest. Right. Yeah, call and re-engage.
27:14
I mean, I think it's very, for all of us in anything, when you don't practice
27:19
something or not thinking about something or a part of something for a long
27:21
period of time, it can feel like it fell away. But anybody who's a baptized
27:25
Catholic is part of the family.
27:28
And the church is a family and the church takes care of our family.
27:30
And, you know, that we are, you know, called to, you know, do the funeral rites,
27:34
you know, for everyone who's a part of our family.
27:36
And, you know, there's a lot of, obviously, I deal with and see a lot of people
27:41
in their dying moments. And it's very powerful. It's very beautiful.
27:44
And I've seen so many deathbed conversions, to be honest with you.
27:47
You have so many great stories of seeing people come to Jesus there at their
27:52
last moments or come back to the church, as you're saying, in those final years
27:56
of their lives where they kind of stepped away for a while.
27:59
And for many reasons, I mean, people have all sorts of reasons that,
28:02
you know, different things happen in life, but, you know, that the Lord keeps
28:06
churning in their heart and they're wanting that relationship with him and come back to him.
28:10
It's one of the beauties of the sacraments of the church, but especially in
28:14
the moments of leading up to death. I mean, the church...
28:17
Opens up everything, you know, to everyone at the, you know, at the moment of death.
28:22
So I've done baptisms and confirmations and, you know, given first communion
28:27
in people's final hours, you know, and, you know, the church really wants to
28:31
make sure that the gift of the sacrament and the sacraments are for the living.
28:35
So they exist to help us get to heaven. That's the point of the sacraments,
28:38
they're for the living to help us get to heaven. So after, obviously after death
28:42
takes place, the sacraments aren't given. It's for us to help get us to heaven.
28:45
Once we die, we face God and we have judgment there immediately.
28:49
So I always encourage people to just reach out and ask, and especially if there's
28:54
a baptized Catholic person there that we claim you as Catholic forever.
28:57
Once you're baptized Catholic, you're one of us.
28:59
And so we'd be happy to take care of you in your dying moments and especially
29:04
to say the prayers for you as you pass on.
29:07
Yeah, I can appreciate that because it's hard when people might be struggling
29:12
with mental illness and they aren't really necessarily mentally reassured.
29:18
Open about their faith because of that illness that they have.
29:22
And it's hard for family members to really understand that, yes,
29:26
it was still there, even though they couldn't practice it in person.
29:30
Yeah, now you're getting that kind of the soul and the body.
29:34
You know, obviously we're creating
29:36
the image and likeness of God and we're created with soul and body.
29:39
The soul is eternal. It has what begins at conception and lives forever and
29:44
gets judged when we, And the body ends in this world, obviously,
29:47
and exists to help guide our soul throughout this life.
29:50
And the soul is more powerful than the physical world. God creates the spiritual
29:55
world first. All the angels were created before the material world.
29:59
And so the spiritual world is more powerful. Your soul looks like you.
30:02
Your soul is able to see and hear and taste. Like the Bible talks very clearly
30:07
about banquets in heaven and seeing these beautiful souls. Well,
30:09
you think of the perfection of all of your senses is what your soul enjoys in the kingdom of heaven.
30:16
And the antithesis of that, obviously, for those who don't go to heaven,
30:20
you know, the perfect destruction of all the senses is what we look at hell as.
30:25
But the fulfillment of all of our senses and the realities as the body decays or St.
30:31
Paul talks about in one of his letters that he was a tent maker and his body was like a tent.
30:36
And just like the wind and the rain wears down a tent over time,
30:40
so the body kind of wears down. But at the same time, the soul within us is
30:44
being renewed and being prepared to meet God. And the reality is that some of our bodies.
30:51
Limit the soul in this world. I mean, actually all of our bodies do because
30:55
their spirits and souls are more powerful, can see more, hear more than the body allows us to.
31:01
And so if people's eyes don't work well, they can't see well in this world.
31:05
Well, that's just on the body aspect.
31:07
That's not on the soul aspect. And so when the soul leaves the body,
31:11
we'll be able to see perfectly and be here perfectly and taste perfectly.
31:16
All the things that we enjoy in this world are prefiguring for the things that we'll enjoy in heaven.
31:21
And so when I talk to people who are obviously dealing with loved ones who have
31:25
dementia or different challenges that come in and all of a sudden they're acting differently.
31:32
Or they're angry or they're expressing themselves in ways that they've never seen them act before.
31:38
And it's happening in that dying process or that aging process.
31:43
It's because of things happening to the body. It's not necessarily what's going
31:46
on in the soul or the level of the intention of the soul.
31:50
And this is where we have to really sift through and realize the beauty and
31:53
the wisdom of God and God's grace and healing and why the sacraments are so
31:57
necessary to bring about that forgiveness and healing to prepare one to go on to meet God.
32:03
And I can't tell you how many times, and we mentioned earlier about the sacrament
32:07
of anointing and the prayers that could be prayed over one in the hour of death,
32:12
and it comes with forgiveness. And so many times I've been called to people on their deathbed and.
32:17
They'll be sleeping in the hospital and I'll walk in to do the anointing and
32:21
all of a sudden they wake up, have a conversation and receive the grace of the
32:26
sacraments and I'll leave and I'll fall back asleep.
32:29
Several times I've had people say, Father, that person and a loved one was asleep
32:33
for two days. He woke up when you walked in the room, received the sacrament
32:36
of anointing, had a whole conversation.
32:39
You left the room five minutes later, they were asleep, they didn't wake up
32:41
and they died a couple hours later.
32:42
I mean, I can't tell you how many
32:44
times. And the sacraments exist for the living to help us get to heaven.
32:48
Jesus Christ gives them to us to comfort us, to bring us peace and to bring
32:52
us hope and to help us to look forward to what will be.
32:55
And, you know, and sometimes that's a looking back at the sacraments help us
32:59
look back at what we need to be healed from and forgiven of and let go of from the past.
33:04
Sometimes, as you were mentioning earlier, some of the reasons people maybe
33:08
step away from religious practice or the faith or, you know.
33:12
Weren't preparing themselves to have a funeral in the church because of whatever reasons.
33:15
And some of those things the Lord really wants us to deal with and be healed
33:20
of and be forgiven of here now before we face them face-to-face at the end of our lives.
33:26
And that's really what the sacraments are for. It's what the church is for.
33:29
It's to help us process life and to be set free today so that we can move forward
33:34
in a new way. The sacraments are always about bringing us freedom.
33:37
Christ comes to set us free.
33:38
I think that that's a great, great way to think about it.
33:42
And a lot of, you know, end of life issues seem very overwhelming for most of
33:46
us because we don't talk about it enough and we don't try to learn,
33:52
you know, what is recommended or what's the proper way to do it.
33:56
We haven't been to enough funerals because we just sent a card because we're
34:01
afraid of the emotions that we're
34:02
going to have to face when we walk into church because we haven't been,
34:06
maybe since the last funeral you know and and that's a hard thing that people
34:10
have to face and and i really appreciate you know and i don't i don't have the
34:15
problem of only going to funerals but.
34:17
Some people, that might be the only time that they go to Mass is for funerals,
34:22
and maybe Christmas and Easter every once in a while.
34:24
So what would you say to someone who's kind of in that boat where they're afraid
34:29
to go back, they know they should, but they're not quite sure what the first step should be?
34:34
It's the same Jesus every day of the week. You know, he's always there and the
34:37
Mass is the Mass. And yeah, certainly always inviting people in.
34:41
And that's one of the reasons we, I'll be honest with you, I love doing funerals
34:44
most because everybody who's there wants to be there, hands down.
34:49
Like everybody who comes to a funeral, they're coming because they are choosing to be there.
34:53
You come to a Sunday mass and your kids are getting dragged in.
34:56
They want to be there. Like, you know, there's all sorts of other things going on.
34:58
But clearly when a funeral mass happens, people want to be there.
35:01
And so it really is a time to speak to everyone about the grieving process,
35:06
the support of the church, the love of the church, the family of the church, and that you all have
35:10
a role here, that everybody belongs within this community.
35:14
And it is an inviting thing to invite people in.
35:16
So you're hopeful that people, when they do come to,
35:20
Mass for funerals, that they feel like they have a good experience of praying
35:24
for a loved one and praying with the other people there
35:27
and joining in that grieving process together that helps ground them in something
35:31
that's really real and that's really life-giving and that does encourage them to want to come back.
35:38
And you're right, it is difficult to know what to say sometimes.
35:41
I think probably a lot of us.
35:43
Make our biggest mistakes when we're trying to do things that we don't necessarily
35:47
have to do. I mean, a lot of times that, you know, people just want us to say,
35:50
I love you. I'm here with you. I'm sorry you're going through this.
35:53
And, you know, I'm here to support you.
35:55
And, you know, nobody has answers on all those things.
35:58
And nobody's ever ready for any of our loved ones to pass on,
36:01
no matter how long an illness has gone on or how long we've been or how old they are.
36:06
Even, you know, I've had plenty of funerals from people in their nineties and
36:10
even over a and you're still not yet ready to let someone go.
36:13
I mean, we can believe in all the things we believe in, in God and in heaven
36:20
and the gift of eternal life and all those blessings that are there.
36:23
But the reality is some of us stay here and we let our loved ones go on and
36:27
we look forward to the day where we get to be reunited with them.
36:30
But it's difficult at times to know exactly what to say. But most importantly,
36:35
I think it's, in my experience, it's been just being present with people and
36:39
letting people know that we're there to walk with each other. Mm-hmm.
36:44
Well, I think we're going to take another quick break. This is Catholic Conversations.
36:49
I'm your host, Teresa Chambers, and we are here with Father David Richardson,
36:53
who is the pastor at Epiphany Parish in Normal, Illinois.
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Welcome back to Catholic Conversations. I'm your host, Teresa Chambers,
38:38
and I'm here with Fr. David Richardson from Epiphany Parish in Normal, Illinois.
38:43
We've been talking about funerals, masses, a little bit about his discernment.
38:47
We've got a little bit of your history.
38:49
Fr. David, I feel like I'm getting to know you here, but we're kind of going
38:53
to switch gears a little bit now, and we're going to talk about types of burial.
38:58
And this isn't really a Catholic thing as much as it's more of a funeral director
39:02
kind of a question in the grand scheme, but it does have to do with your Catholic
39:05
faith. So some people want to get buried in a casket. Some people want to get cremated.
39:11
What is the real recommended process?
39:15
So there actually was a period of time in the church where cremation was strongly
39:20
discouraged slash not allowed.
39:23
Obviously, it leads back to what we were discussing earlier about having a reverence for the body.
39:27
So God gives us the gift of our body as individuals, and we're called to have
39:31
a reverence, take care of our bodies in this world as best we can and have a
39:35
gratitude and thanksgiving that the body houses the soul.
39:37
And so even in the dying process and with burial, we're having a reverence for.
39:43
The body of our loved ones.
39:45
And so the cremation process was seen for a long time as having irreverence
39:53
towards the body is kind of why the church was against it for a period of time.
39:57
But clearly we know as the scripture started off talking about ashes to ashes
40:01
and dust to dust that we're all, that disintegration takes place over time anyways.
40:08
And so the church kind of, you know, started having, allowing,
40:12
certainly allowing that to take place and allowing it to take place during the mass.
40:16
And then, you know, recognizing in kind of a commonsensical way that,
40:19
you know, this is going that way anyways.
40:21
And so we can still have a reverence for the remains of someone if it's handled
40:26
in an appropriate way. So funeral homes can cremate a body and keep all of the cremains together.
40:32
Like one body together and the burial, then the cremains could be present at
40:36
mass and then they could be buried together at the burial ground.
40:40
We certainly as Catholics want to keep the remains all together.
40:44
There's kind of a trend out there to, you know, put remains in jewelry or to
40:49
spread at different locations.
40:51
And the reality is when the soul leaves the body, the soul goes on to be with
40:54
God. And so the reverence we're having for the body after death is looking forward
41:01
to the resurrection at the end of time.
41:03
When, as we said earlier, the soul and the body reunite just like Jesus Christ
41:07
at his resurrection, we will share in that glorified body at the end of time.
41:11
And so there's a looking forward to that, which is why we want to keep our remains
41:16
together and looking forward to bury them in one place and not to have a kind
41:22
of an irreverence or spreading our ashes from here or there.
41:24
And, and, or even keeping, there's kind of a tradition people or starting up
41:28
with keeping the remains at someone's house or on a mantle, or it really is.
41:32
Not recommended by the church.
41:33
And we want to have a burial place. And not only, as I said,
41:37
the prayers earlier, because we bless the ground and those prayers of blessing
41:40
or looking ahead to the resurrection, but it also gives a place for,
41:45
loved ones to go and grieve and to go and pray and to go visit someone physically,
41:51
and not just have someone, you know, remaining in a house.
41:54
And be honest with you, I've had so many times where people have discovered
41:58
remains in someone's house that were just kind of lost and left in a box and those kinds of things.
42:04
And it can happen, you know, when people don't pay attention to something.
42:07
So in the final days, it's important to prepare for having a final resting place for someone.
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42:25
I will say that I have a friend whose mom immigrated from Eastern Europe, and she was.
42:32
Very much against cremation due to the fact that her mom tried to escape the Nazis in World War II.
42:40
And it's like, well, I can respect that. I think that's a great reason to not
42:44
choose cremation. It's everybody's personal choice. As long as you tell people,
42:48
you have to have it written down because otherwise you kind of get what you
42:51
get because when you're gone, you don't really have a say.
42:54
So. Unfortunately, most of the decisions around that today are made on finances.
42:59
It's more It's more expensive to purchase the casket and the crypt and all that
43:03
than it is to do cremation and the land that's required or the place that's
43:08
required to bury remains is, I would say,
43:12
most of the reasons why people choose that nowadays.
43:15
Do you think the Catholic Church will move towards like a more of a green burial,
43:19
where the body can decompose naturally?
43:22
I don't know. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. I mean, because clearly when
43:26
you have a funeral visitation, you're pumped all full of chemicals.
43:31
And, you know, some people might not want to do that.
43:34
And so does the church allow that kind of circumstance? Actually,
43:39
as I said earlier, where I went to seminary, St. Miner's Benedictine Monastery.
43:43
I mean, technically, that's the way they do theirs.
43:46
They're buried in a wooden casket. There's no embalming down.
43:49
And they're just a hole dug in the ground and the wood caskets placed in the
43:52
ground. So, I mean, there's no vault.
43:55
You know, it's like typically our cemeteries have vaults and the casket's locked
43:58
in a vault and that's not done there at the monastery. So, yeah,
44:02
that's something that's certainly allowed.
44:04
Well, and it depends on the rules and laws of the state too because I know Illinois
44:07
is kind of a crypt-friendly state. They really want you to have one of those.
44:11
But it's interesting to learn about different types of funeral processes and
44:17
they vary across cultures and across the world.
44:20
And having an appreciation for the body as a whole, I think is important,
44:24
whether it's cremated or not.
44:26
And it's really kind of for a lot of people complain that the Catholic church
44:31
never changes. Well, here's one way where we changed.
44:34
We've made an accommodation so that you have choices now. It's not just you have to get,
44:40
the whole big package that's expensive yeah i'm a firm believer too that if
44:44
it makes common sense it's kind of part of our church and i mean the ashes the
44:49
ashes the dust the dust it's kind of commonsensical that eventually all of us
44:52
are disintegrating in that way and,
44:54
it just kind of makes it a little quicker you know taking place when cremation
44:58
is done but you know when they do it with having a reverence for the body and
45:01
keeping the body all together and the carmines all being kept together and being
45:05
given to the family for burial all together it's having that same reverence for the body.
45:09
Well, and I think that that's an important part. I feel like we live in a society
45:13
where we kind of throw away our elderly and we put them in homes and we don't
45:18
want to have to worry about or think about them.
45:20
And, you know, we kind of dismiss a lot of things. We've got people who are
45:24
signing up to die because they think they're a burden to society and they're
45:28
not valued. And, you know, it's like it's kind of a weird place to be.
45:34
Yeah, there's a lot of things going on in the culture that way.
45:36
Now, obviously, it gets at one of the core aspects of our faith is that we're
45:40
all creating the image and likeness of God and we all have individual dignity
45:43
that's given to us by God.
45:44
And we're called to have a reverence for our own dignity and the dignity of everyone else.
45:48
And there is a role that we all play within the family to care for each other,
45:52
to monitor each other, to love on each other.
45:53
And, you know, certain other cultures do a better job maybe of taking care of
45:57
the different generations and living together as family.
46:00
I think a lot of that's driven by economy and space and money and all those
46:04
kinds of things that maybe are not necessarily the relational things that should
46:08
be considered when caring for our loved ones and all the other things that people
46:12
have going on in their lives.
46:13
But it is something that it's important for us to pay attention to those who
46:18
are, you know, in those dying years, you know, that life does change.
46:22
And it's, in my experience, it's very difficult, you know, for people to have changed it.
46:27
We all know, we've all felt it, whether no matter how old you are,
46:29
when your body starts changing, you can do things differently,
46:32
you can do it less, less well.
46:33
And, you know, things are a little more difficult and that just keeps happening to all of us.
46:38
And when it gets to those later years, it can be very frustrating for people
46:42
when memory is not as sharp or not able to communicate or do things they used
46:47
to, which actually can be very limiting.
46:50
On hearing people or being able to go places and put themselves in a position
46:55
to encounter others where then they then need others to encounter them.
46:59
And so that looking forward to the ways in which we can care for our loved ones
47:03
and be present to them and their need is an important way of living the Christian faith. Yeah.
47:09
So I want to kind of back up a little bit because we talked a little bit about
47:14
how you kind of pray over the body at the time of death.
47:17
And I distinctly remember doing that with my mom when she passed because it
47:21
was in the hospital, but my dad passed at home. And so it was a lot harder to
47:26
get that figured out. So what is kind of the schedule of events for how that goes?
47:32
The final blessing, the anointing of the sick is the sacrament that is given
47:37
at the end of one's life, but it's actually a sacrament that can be given where
47:41
any change of health takes place.
47:42
So we anoint people who could be dealing with mental challenges or having physical
47:47
challenges and surgeries and we're just needing prayer. So the sacrament is
47:52
a healing sacrament, but it's both physical healing and spiritual healing.
47:57
And so the Lord through the sacrament can heal people's bodies and can heal
48:01
people's souls and forgive souls.
48:02
So at the end of life, it's seen more as a soul purification sacrament.
48:06
So it comes with forgiveness. Only priests can celebrate the sacrament of anointing
48:10
of the sick because it involves both forgiveness of sin as well.
48:14
And so you have to have a validly ordained priest to absolve sin in the name
48:18
of Jesus Christ to stand in the person of him.
48:20
And through the sacrament of anointing takes place where oil that's blessed
48:24
by the bishop at the chrism mass during Holy Week is placed on the forehead
48:28
and in the palms of the hand of the person while the priest prays.
48:32
Through this holy anointing, may the Lord in his love and mercy help you with
48:35
the grace of the Holy Spirit.
48:37
Amen. And may the Lord who frees you from sin save you and raise you up.
48:41
Amen. And so the oil is placed on the forehead and on the palms of the person.
48:45
And so it's both praying for physical healing, but wiping clean,
48:49
you know, this forgiving sin.
48:51
And there's also an apostolic pardon that can be given at the moment of dying,
48:56
and it's really one of those, as I mentioned earlier, you want to make sure
48:59
you get it, and it's a freedom from the consequences or the effects of all of our sin in our past.
49:05
So it really is the wiping us clean, and the apostolic pardon prayer the priest
49:10
can pray over the person is, by the authority given to me by the apostolic see,
49:15
I grant you a plenary indulgence and remission from all of your sins in the
49:19
name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
49:22
Amen. And so it's kind of a wiping of the consequences of indulgences.
49:27
The consequences of sin are wiped out. And plenier indulgence means it's complete.
49:32
There's partial indulgences, which is a partial wiping out of the effects of
49:36
our sin and the consequences of our sin, or plenier meaning it's complete.
49:40
And so it's a full, complete cleansing and gift to the soul as they're preparing
49:45
to go on and meet God and face judgment.
49:48
And I think that a lot of people, when you think about what a priest does,
49:52
I think most people think that you marry people and that you do Sunday Mass.
49:56
They kind of forget about the whole burial part and that you probably do almost
50:01
as many burial Masses as you do Sunday Masses, maybe.
50:04
Probably not quite as many, but I would say the last church I had in Peoria,
50:09
we probably had between 40 and 60 funerals a year. I think we're about 30 or
50:13
so here, maybe at Epiphany right now.
50:16
About 70 baptisms a year, so it's good to have them. We need to hear more of
50:20
that because it sure seems like there's more funerals. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:25
It's something you want to encourage people to do. to be honest with you,
50:28
as I said earlier, I really do love doing the funeral liturgy because it's such
50:32
a time when people really want to be there and they're looking for an experience
50:35
with God and they're looking for God in the midst of their grief and some grasping of understanding.
50:40
And so it really is a beautiful liturgy of the church.
50:43
Well, what do you think of the one message you would want to give to people
50:48
as if they have a loved one that's kind of getting close to death?
50:53
Like, when do you think the right time is to bring in the priest?
50:56
Anytime. Well, yeah, I figured you would say that. Yeah, anytime you bring the priest.
51:01
You know, I think what people don't do is they don't ask the question.
51:04
So much of life and relationships, I think, is asking the right questions at the right time.
51:09
And so easy people can, well, we'll get to that later, or maybe we'll take care
51:13
of that at some point, or we can feel like uncertain about what to do here.
51:16
Well, just ask. You know, your loved one is going through something difficult
51:21
or serious, no matter what their age is, or if they're facing kind of end-of-life
51:25
issues, and, you know, just very clearly saying, you know, would you like to
51:29
have somebody come talk to you?
51:30
And would you like the priest to come visit with you? Would you like to go to
51:33
confession? Would you like to be anointed?
51:34
Is there anything we can do to bring in the priest in?
51:37
And all the priests here of our diocese, there's great priests in our diocese,
51:41
and they're all very accustomed to coming and speaking with people in their
51:45
hour of need, no matter what those kind of needs are, but especially in the hour of passing.
51:49
And our Catholic hospitals are very blessed with having chaplains who are on
51:53
staff there, who are taking care of people in the different things,
51:57
different reasons they come into the hospital, but especially in the dying process there.
52:01
So, yeah, I guess to answer it, I would say you can call a priest anytime.
52:05
And I think it's probably one of the messages where all of us priests are probably
52:09
trying to get out there is that we're really available for the family,
52:12
you know, and to be there for people when the need is there and making sure
52:15
that people realize that.
52:17
That's what the role of the priest is about, is to help bring Christ to people
52:21
and bring that comfort and hope for eternal life. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people...
52:26
Feel like priests are so busy, they don't have time to talk to me.
52:30
It's one of my pet peeves, people say that. Like, yeah, we all have a lot going
52:34
on in life, but it's probably one of the worst things to say about a priest
52:38
or to a priest that, you guys are so busy, I'm not going to bother you with this.
52:42
No, that's what we're here for. I mean, like, there's a lot of administrative
52:44
stuff you do at a parish, and there's a lot, but you do all of those things
52:48
to do the fun stuff, which is the soul stuff, the things that help people get to heaven.
52:52
And, you know, that's what, that's why we become priests is to pray with people,
52:56
pray over people, help people to pray and help people understand the love of
53:00
Jesus Christ and bring Christ into their lives.
53:02
And all the other things we do administratively and run in a parish or a school
53:06
and all those kinds of things exist just so we can bring Christ to people.
53:09
And, you know, that there's so, yeah, I always encourage people never to think
53:13
that the priest is too busy. You can always reach out to him.
53:15
And, you know, sometimes you got to schedule things or find time for things.
53:18
Sure, that's the case for all of our lives.
53:21
But, you know, when it comes very specifically to the dying process,
53:25
the priest can often bring a lot of peace and comfort.
53:28
You know, just walking into, we had a seminarian with us for a couple months.
53:33
And, you know, I've been doing this for 23 years. So you come in and out and you just do the things.
53:39
And he went to the hospital with me the first time he came. And the first week
53:43
he came and we got back in the car and he was like kind of processing and he was, that was amazing.
53:47
I said, what's that? He's like, when you walked in the room,
53:50
the entire room changed, like the feeling of the room, the, like,
53:53
it was just, it was very clear who you were and what you were here to do.
53:57
And like everybody turned to receive what you were bringing. And like,
54:01
I mean, I probably haven't had that thought in a long time, but having somebody
54:04
else like see that, experience that, and like, yeah, there is
54:08
a way in which Christ is walking with the priest into a room and,
54:12
you know, that we're coming to bring Jesus to them and to bring some healing and some peace.
54:16
And, you know, that's the reason why I would say back to your question is just
54:21
ask your loved ones, can we bring a priest to you? Would you like to talk about
54:24
anything? Would you like to go to confession?
54:27
You know, just making that request known. Well, and especially after all of
54:31
the events that you're kind of coordinating are over after everybody's put in
54:34
the ground where they should be.
54:37
You're still there to support them spiritually, the people who are left living.
54:42
It's not just about all about the person you're putting in the ground necessarily.
54:46
Yeah, I try to do a lot of, when you meet with people during the process of
54:51
planning liturgy for their loved one, planning the Mass, you kind of get an
54:55
insight into where people are at, how they're grieving, how they're struggling.
55:00
And let's face it, there are different passings that affect people differently.
55:04
And I'm very accustomed to hand in on my number and contact and sometimes following
55:10
up with people and just seeing where they're at as the grieving process goes
55:14
on because there's so many stages to it.
55:16
I mean, there's the shock and disappointment and the frustration.
55:20
There can be anger. There can be just the feeling of sadness and loss.
55:24
And sometimes when time goes on, there can be even shock that we maybe stop
55:29
thinking about someone as much because they've passed on and time's gone on.
55:32
And there's many, many stages to the grieving process. And, you know,
55:36
making myself available on that end of it, you know, is something that I've
55:40
found very rewarding for people and important for over the years.
55:45
Well, I appreciate that. And that's why I kind of asked that question because
55:49
I think a lot of people get intimidated sometimes when they're talking to a
55:52
priest because they either have a bad memory from childhood or they think they're
55:55
in the principal's office on some level.
55:57
And that's not really the case, everyone.
56:00
Priests are good. They're here to help us. They want to help us get to heaven.
56:03
Somebody literally said that to me the other day. I said, I feel like I'm walking
56:06
into the principal's office. I'm like, this is not the principal's office.
56:08
And the principal's office is good too. Like we are both good people and we
56:12
both love you and we both want to bring out the best. And like,
56:14
you know, it's, yeah, I think the.
56:16
I don't know, people's, I guess there's an authority aspect to the priesthood.
56:20
I mean, I really don't see myself that way. It's one of those,
56:22
you know, you are who you are.
56:24
And like, I'm pretty trying to say a down to earth person, but you know,
56:28
there is something to that where there's a respect or a looking to the authority,
56:32
but you know, the priests are there because they chose to love God and.
56:37
In the ministry and bring people to Christ.
56:39
And really, if you think about why someone's a priest, then it makes it a little
56:43
more, I guess, inviting to say, yeah, I can go talk to that person because,
56:47
you know, he really wants to bring what I'm looking for.
56:50
Right. So if you want to see Father David in person, go to Epiphany Parish in Normal, Illinois.
56:57
And if you want to plan your funeral in advance, you can go to mycatholicwill.com
57:02
slash catholicspiritradio and get started on the process. There's no cost.
57:06
And you can have some questions to bring to your parish priest when you want to plan your funeral.
57:12
This is Teresa Chambers, and you have been here for Catholic Conversations.
57:17
Thanks. You've been listening to Catholic Conversations. Download our podcasts
57:21
at catholicspiritradio.com.