Latest / The Steve Harvey Morning Show / More Black people are having Plastic surgery, because it can change your life and is available to everyone. Dr. Steven Williams, The First African American President-Elect of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons

Transcript

More Black people are having Plastic surgery, because it can change your life and is available to everyone. Dr. Steven Williams, The First African American President-Elect of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons · The Steve Harvey Morning Show

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  Speaker 1: Interviews and information that this show provides off for everyone.
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  Speaker 4: It's time to stop reading other people's success stories and
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  Speaker 1: My guess is.
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  Speaker 4: Doctor Stephen Williams is a Board certified plastic surgery in
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  Speaker 4: practice in the San Francisco area at Tri.
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  Speaker 1: Ballet Plastic Surgery.
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  Speaker 4: He specialized in cosmetic face, body and bretschwork. He is
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  Speaker 4: the leader in body contour with techniques like minimal pain,
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  Speaker 4: tommy tucks and fat transfer to enhanced patient curves including hips, buddocks,
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  Speaker 4: and breads. Doctor Steve Williams is a passionate plastic surgery
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  Speaker 4: professional with a decade of hands on expertise in plastic
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  Speaker 4: and reconstruction surgery. He is the first African American President
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  Speaker 4: elect of the American Society of Plastic Surgery. Doctor Merritives
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  Speaker 4: will be taking it on or on later this year.
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  Speaker 4: Please welcome the Money Making Conversation Mastic Class, Doctor Steph Williams.
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  Speaker 5: How you doing, sir, I'm very well. Thank you so
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  Speaker 5: much for having me on, and it's an honor to
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  Speaker 5: be here.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. So you're on the West coast, Yes, sir,
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  Speaker 1: tell us a little history.
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  Speaker 4: You know, usually suddenly become a plastic surgery What inspired you?
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  Speaker 1: Because I tell you little history of me.
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  Speaker 4: I made my name as a stand up comedian, as
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  Speaker 4: a sitcom writer, but my degree is in mathematics, so
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  Speaker 4: I didn't even think about doing this direction.
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  Speaker 1: What got you in this area?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a great question.
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  Speaker 5: As everyone knows, physicians, we start kind of at an
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  Speaker 5: early age.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of training, there's a lot of schooling.
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  Speaker 5: We essentially give up our twenties to kind of achieve,
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  Speaker 5: you know, what we want to do, and my father
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  Speaker 5: was actually a physician. My mom was a school teacher
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  Speaker 5: and my dad was a physician, and he kind of imbued.
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  Speaker 5: Both my parents imbued that importance of achievement and success
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  Speaker 5: and striving. So I owe a lot to my family.
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  Speaker 5: You know, throughout my education, my undergrad years in medical school,
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  Speaker 5: I met some very inspiring plastic surgeons and decided that
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  Speaker 5: was something that really appealed to me.
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  Speaker 4: Right, you know, but plastic surgery. You know, like I said,
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  Speaker 4: you already mentioned your father was in the medical profession,
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  Speaker 4: But why plastic surgery?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, And so I think most doctors, the way they
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  Speaker 5: choose what they're going to do is they really find
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  Speaker 5: people that they respect, people that they look up to,
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  Speaker 5: people that they see themselves in. And that process usually
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  Speaker 5: happens in medical school, and that allows people to identify
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  Speaker 5: the direction they want to go.
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  Speaker 3: Plastic surgery.
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  Speaker 5: Was really one of those things that allowed physicians to
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  Speaker 5: treat almost every age of patient, for almost every element.
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  Speaker 5: And when we think about plastic surgery, we think about
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  Speaker 5: the cosmetic side, but plastic surgery is really a lot
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  Speaker 5: more than that. There's cancer reconstructions, there's congenital reconstructions, reconstructions.
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  Speaker 4: Because I think what you were saying to me, ra Sean,
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  Speaker 4: is that we get caught up in the hype, especially
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  Speaker 4: the Hollywood type of so many people making these physical changes.
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  Speaker 4: But beyond that being depopularized version of what plastic surgery
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  Speaker 4: your role is far more reaching to the general community.
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  Speaker 5: Correct, Absolutely, I think that there's two ways to look
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  Speaker 5: at it. Plastic surgery can help children with congenital defects
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  Speaker 5: and can help people who have injured their hands or
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  Speaker 5: have had breast cancer, and so really we're trained to
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  Speaker 5: operate on all parts of the body and deal.
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  Speaker 3: With multitude of issues.
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  Speaker 5: But the other thing about cosmetic surgery, which I think
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  Speaker 5: people are being to recognize, is it really is part
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  Speaker 5: of one's healing in one's whole self because being able
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  Speaker 5: to look on the outside the way you feel on
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  Speaker 5: the inside is an important part of self identity and
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  Speaker 5: being able to direct your life.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 4: Really interesting because you really just educated me right there
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  Speaker 4: because of the fact that about the role and the
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  Speaker 4: perception of what a plastic surgeon does. Because we're so
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  Speaker 4: inundated with whether there's social media, where there's people magazine,
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  Speaker 4: where's ETV or entertainment tonight about people who have want
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  Speaker 4: to look like a Kim Kardashian or somebody who has
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  Speaker 4: done multiple surgeries that they don't, I mean plastic surgeries,
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  Speaker 4: they don't look like themselves. Do you Are you annoyed
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  Speaker 4: by that, doctor Stephen Williams.
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  Speaker 5: Well, I do think that the public pays attention to
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  Speaker 5: the things that are, you know, salacious and scandalous, and
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  Speaker 5: that's that's a little bit of media and that's kind
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  Speaker 5: of a little bit of natural human instinct to pay
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  Speaker 5: attention to those things that you know are shocking, and
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  Speaker 5: definitely social media feeds upon that a little bit. But
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  Speaker 5: I think it's important to recognize that plastic surgeons, a
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  Speaker 5: good plastic surgeon is a physician first, and that means
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  Speaker 5: that we address all elements of patient's health and patients care,
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  Speaker 5: and it means that we have to listen to our patients,
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  Speaker 5: whether it's I had breast cancer and I need breast reconstruction,
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  Speaker 5: or it's you know, I just don't feel like myself
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  Speaker 5: and I want to be I want my outside to
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  Speaker 5: look the way I feel inside.
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  Speaker 3: Both are are very very important.
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  Speaker 5: Parts, and it gets a little bit away from the
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  Speaker 5: drama of you know, I want to look like a Kardashian.
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  Speaker 1: Right, because that does dominate. Like I said, we do.
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  Speaker 4: We deal with a world of you know, digital hits,
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  Speaker 4: engagement at people.
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  Speaker 1: There you go, but you know, let's.
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  Speaker 4: Go to the reality of I'm an African American and
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  Speaker 4: so my perception is that plast surgery is.
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  Speaker 1: For white folks.
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  Speaker 5: You know, yes, so you yes, So you have hit
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  Speaker 5: on a very very important topic. Plastic surgery and social
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  Speaker 5: media is bad in some ways, but social media.
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  Speaker 3: Can be good in other ways.
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  Speaker 5: Took plastic surgery has become much more accepted across the globe,
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  Speaker 5: across all ethnicities, races, across men, women, transgendered. Plastic surgery
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  Speaker 5: is really being seen as a tool now to align oneself,
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  Speaker 5: to find interhealing, fulfillment, those types of things. Now that
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  Speaker 5: doesn't mean that everyone should try to look a certain way,
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  Speaker 5: but increasingly, especially in the African American community, there is
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  Speaker 5: a recognition that this is something that you deserve, this
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  Speaker 5: is something that you are a person of value, and
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  Speaker 5: it's okay to seek this. I've had many many patients,
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  Speaker 5: and I educated myself because I was shocked when I know,
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  Speaker 5: I was shocked when I heard it too.
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  Speaker 3: I had a patient say I didn't feel like I
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  Speaker 3: deserved this.
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  Speaker 5: I felt like I deserve to look like this because
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  Speaker 5: of life choices I had made, or just because society
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  Speaker 5: said you're not supposed to look the way you want
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  Speaker 5: to look. And when I heard that, it really expanded
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  Speaker 5: my mind that there really is this concept, especially in
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  Speaker 5: African American culture, and especially among African American women, that
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  Speaker 5: they don't deserve to look the way they want to look,
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  Speaker 5: they don't deserve to feel the way they want to feel.
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  Speaker 3: And that's something that I really want to change.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's interesting because you know what, I
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  Speaker 4: got to go to famous people to reference plastic surgery,
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  Speaker 4: like sub k A. Fox was probably jumped out there
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  Speaker 4: in the African American community as a person who publicized
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  Speaker 4: plastic surgery, and I'll be frank, the black community was shocked.
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  Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, she can actually do that, because
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  Speaker 4: in my mind, I felt you would see scars. I
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  Speaker 4: felt that we couldn't do those things. What led to
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  Speaker 4: this being misinformed? I guess you would say what a
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  Speaker 4: black person or a person of color and how we
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  Speaker 4: could participate when it comes to plastic surgery.
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  Speaker 5: Raseean, you're going deep today, I'll say that, you know,
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  Speaker 5: it's that is an incredibly incredibly complicated, multifaceted question. You know,
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  Speaker 5: that doesn't have one single answer. You know, part of
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  Speaker 5: it probably is there's a disenfranchisement of African Americans in society,
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  Speaker 5: and that's been part of American culture. There is kind
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  Speaker 5: of this reinforcement that things that are associated with affluence
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  Speaker 5: or success right that, you know, that isn't attainable or
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  Speaker 5: accessible by our communities. The good thing is some of
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  Speaker 5: the those stereotypes and some of that, some of those
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  Speaker 5: barriers are beginning to fall away. And I think it's
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  Speaker 5: discussions like this that are really helpful for everybody, not
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  Speaker 5: just African Americans, but everybody to understand.
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  Speaker 3: That they have a right to feel the way they
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  Speaker 3: want to feel.
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  Speaker 5: And your physical appearance is an incredibly incredibly important part
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  Speaker 5: of your psyche and your emotional well being.
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  Speaker 1: Right now, there age limits.
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  Speaker 4: I'm assuming that one should consider I apologize. I just
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  Speaker 4: think because we're talking a couple of things here. I'm
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  Speaker 4: talking about, I guess, the Hollywood type, the physical, the visual,
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  Speaker 4: the breast enhancement, the buttocks, the hips, the curves.
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  Speaker 1: Of Tommy Tucks. And then there's also the side that you.
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  Speaker 4: Said, Rashaan burns physical deformities, and so I want to
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  Speaker 4: make sure that I'm talking really clean right now. I'm
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  Speaker 4: just talking about the change because of the fact that
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  Speaker 4: one say they look normal, they don't say why they
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  Speaker 4: make a these adjustments physically and people being impacted. And
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  Speaker 4: there's an age limit. Does teenagers be involved in this?
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  Speaker 4: Are there restrictions? As a doctor? How do you move
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  Speaker 4: forward with these decision makings? Doctor Wair?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, again, you're asking really really fantastic questions. You know,
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  Speaker 5: there is when we're looking at patients, the first thing
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  Speaker 5: is safety, and so we want to make sure that
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  Speaker 5: someone is healthy enough for surgery. And it's not necessarily
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  Speaker 5: a number we operate on all ages. It's really more
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  Speaker 5: you know, what are your other medical problems? Is this
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  Speaker 5: a safe procedure for you to undergo? But the second
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  Speaker 5: thing that you hit upon is something that again is
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  Speaker 5: really very much a hot topic right now, which is,
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  Speaker 5: you know, how young is too young? And you know,
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  Speaker 5: social media really is driving this pressure, especially for young girls,
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  Speaker 5: that they have to look a certain way, that they
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  Speaker 5: have to be a certain way to be successful, and
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  Speaker 5: that is incredibly corrosive and can be harmful, and as
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  Speaker 5: plastic surgeons, it's important that we recognize those negative influences
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  Speaker 5: to make sure that we're protecting our patients, not in
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  Speaker 5: a paternalistic way, but in an educational way to say,
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  Speaker 5: you know, the things that you see on social media,
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  Speaker 5: most of that isn't real, and let's talk about realistic expectations,
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  Speaker 5: and let's talk about why you want to make changes
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  Speaker 5: in my own personal practice, I'm very very hesitant about
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  Speaker 5: operating on people who are emotionally still in a growth place.
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  Speaker 3: And that's a nice way of saying maybe a little
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  Speaker 3: bit immature.
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  Speaker 5: And the reason why is because you want to make
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  Speaker 5: sure people are making these decisions for the right reasons.
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  Speaker 5: It's empowering and it's something that we want people to do,
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  Speaker 5: but we want to make sure that it's for the
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  Speaker 5: right reasons.
• 11:47
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  Speaker 4: Now, this is really interesting because I when I it's
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: called trendy, Doctor Steven Williams, you know, people see this.
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  Speaker 1: They want this.
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  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that, like whenever it thinks there's a request,
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  Speaker 4: people like if balloons are hot, people want balloons. People
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  Speaker 4: want to Ferrari, they wanted Ferrari. And this plastic surgery arena.
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  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure there are trends and then people stop
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  Speaker 4: asking for it. How does that cycle in and out?
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  Speaker 4: And what are trends that are kind of like dropping
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  Speaker 4: as far as plastic surgery requests?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, great question.
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  Speaker 5: So the trend, I mean, the thing that we're all
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: kind of hearing about is a Brazilian butt lift, and
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  Speaker 5: that's a little bit kind of on the downward slide.
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  Speaker 1: Steve Wood, what is a Bazilion butt lift?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, thank you. So it's a great
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  Speaker 3: question because I'm.
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  Speaker 1: Gonna be honest with you.
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  Speaker 4: I see some people walking around and I go that
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  Speaker 4: don't look real.
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  Speaker 1: That don't look real, So educate me.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so the concept of the Brazilian butt lift
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  Speaker 5: is taking fat from areas of your body that you
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  Speaker 5: don't want it and moving those living.
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  Speaker 3: Fat cells to areas where you do right.
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  Speaker 5: And you know, the Brazilian butt lift focuses on the
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  Speaker 5: hips and buttocks, but as a concept, we use fat
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  Speaker 5: t for again in burn reconstruction, in breast reconstruction we
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  Speaker 5: use it, and faceless we use it to rejuvenate hands.
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  Speaker 3: It's a technique that's very, very powerful.
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  Speaker 5: But when people say Brazilian butt lift, they're really referring
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  Speaker 5: to kind of those additional curves around the waistline, hips
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  Speaker 5: and buttocks, and it's something that again was made popular
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  Speaker 5: by a lot of kind of A listers and heavy influencers,
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  Speaker 5: but it's a really kind of current example of that
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  Speaker 5: concept of that trend. And it's that current example of
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  Speaker 5: people saying I want to look like that person and
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  Speaker 5: then maybe five or six years later saying, well, maybe
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  Speaker 5: that was too much. And so as plastic surgeons, it's
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  Speaker 5: our job not to be these gatekeepers for patients and
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  Speaker 5: say you don't know what you want, and we're not
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  Speaker 5: going to let you do that, because that's not the
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: right thing either. Especially again in the African American community,
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: we've had medical professionals maybe have some negative influence about
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: saying what's right for us or what's wrong for us,
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  Speaker 5: But to be their partner as a physician to help
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  Speaker 5: them make those right decisions and maybe dissociate a little
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  Speaker 5: bit away from what's trending and kind of dissect what
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  Speaker 5: their motives are and why are you doing this? And
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: maybe it is for all the right reasons and we
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: should definitely do it, but maybe it's something that you're
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: going to look back on and not appreciate in four
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: or five years.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know that's always you know, you look this
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: way on Tuesday, and then the following week you look
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  Speaker 4: this way and it is too much?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Is too much?
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  Speaker 4: Now? I don't know if you answered my question, but
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  Speaker 4: what are some of the trends that was trending?
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  Speaker 1: You mentioned the Brazilian butt lift.
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  Speaker 4: Are the other trends that were trendy that are not
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  Speaker 4: so trendy?
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  Speaker 1: Now?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's under constant evolution, and things like
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  Speaker 5: social media have kind of sped up that cycle of people,
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  Speaker 5: you know, I want to look like that and then
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  Speaker 5: saying Okay, maybe I don't want to look like that.
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  Speaker 5: So social media it's always been something that's there. I
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  Speaker 5: would point to rhinoplasty trends in the seventies and eighties,
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  Speaker 5: where everybody wanted this very kind of eurocentric ski slope,
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  Speaker 5: very kind of done looking nose. You know, that was
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  Speaker 5: in trend for probably fifteen years, twenty years, maybe so
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  Speaker 5: much so that the surgical device companies made little molds
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  Speaker 5: that you could keep in your operating room that were sterilizable,
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  Speaker 5: so you could put it next to the patient's nose
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  Speaker 5: and say, have I created this very standard looking nose?
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  Speaker 5: And you and I look at think about that now
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  Speaker 5: and say, well, that's crazy. You know, why would anybody
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  Speaker 5: want Why would everybody want the exact same nose? But
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: it's an example of that trend. It's example of that
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  Speaker 5: social pressure for people to say, this is what's associated
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: with beauty, and I want to align myself with that.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Social media has kind of put a little bit of
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: gasoline on that because again, it's very insidious.
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  Speaker 3: We all have pictures of perfect people in our pockets.
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  Speaker 5: You can kind of pull out at any point in
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: the day and kind of reinforce what we're supposed to
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: look like. And I say that very much in quotation marks.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: But there is this kind of counter trend about identity,
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: and I think for the African American community that's really important.
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: And so some of the things that are really popular
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: right now or are kind of the ethnocentric nos for example,
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: and that's in some ways a counter trend to the
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: one size fits all saying I want to look like
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: I'm African American still, but there are some small things
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: or some larger things that I want to change, but
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: don't make me look like I'm not African America or
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: I'm not Asian American.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, I did mention Vivaca and fact, but
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: we know the king in the Black community of plastic
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: surgeon with Michael Jackson. Yes, And then it became one
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: of the Michael Jackson knows. People wanted to get the
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: Michael Jackson knows.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And that was really popular. And so it comes.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Into that you're kind of like the UFO person.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: You know, they're really aliens out there.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: The Michael Jackson Knows was just a dominant part of
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: the conversation.
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: You know, an example, an example of too much right,
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: because you know, professionally as a plastic surgeon that knows
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: was a disaster.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: You know why why you say that, Doctor Steve Williams.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so you know, the first he's had he
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: had several rhinoplast He's had several operations, and you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: I think the first few were conservative and reasonable. But
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: this was kind of an example of someone saying, I
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: want to chase this ideal at any cost, and you know,
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: maybe not getting great advice because clearly, you know again
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: I we it's all.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: It's relatively clear in.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: The plastic story community that there were some substantial issues
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: with that nose, including skin breakthrough, including breathing problems because
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: it was overdone. And it's all in this effort to
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: chase this image of perfection that he had. And you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: the downside about celebrity and wealth is you can find
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: enough money to have someone do it. Because the nine
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: out of ten plastic searching to say this isn't safe.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: Eventually you put enough money down, someone says I'll do it.
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: But that can lead to some really unfortunate situation.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: You know, when I look at this interview, when I
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: came up on it, you know, I have all these
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: questions about myself personally, and I have all these questions
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: about the rumors.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: That I've heard about plastic surgery. And the great thing.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: About doctor Stevid Williams, you informed me that Risha, stop
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: the madness. Plastic surger is not about what you read
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: or what you see on social media.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Is more than that.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: It's about it's about saving lives. It's about the impacting lives.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: As people were born with a split lip, that's plastic
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: surgery too, people who may have, you know, born together,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: that's plastic surgery.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: All these things.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: So as a person who is going to be the
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: first African American president elect of American Society of Plastic Surgery,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: what is your responsibility because you have to deal with that,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: you have to deal with these false understandings of what
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: a plastic surgery really is.
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a really it's a really large responsibility,
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: and it's something that I think ASPS, the American Society
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: Plastic Surgeons and myself, I think we work towards that
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: every day, about educating people. That's part of the reason
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: it's an honor to be on your show and can
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: be able to talk about it. So I really appreciate
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: that and I want to say thank you again. But
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: it's a constant effort because social media really does warp
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: things a little bit. And I think that plastic surgery
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: is one of those things that was kind of whispered
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: and rumored about, and you know, back in the seventies
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: and eighties, like I think she had something done and
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: it was kind of and patients were very private about it,
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: you know, back in the day. And now it's completely reversed.
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: People want to talk about their stories, they want to
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: share their successes, they want to share their fears and
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: their journeys, and that's really powerful and we encourage that
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: because I think that does bring a little bit of
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: reality to the overall process.
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: The beauty of this interview is that it's about education
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: and it's about informing people and also breaking down what
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: I was perceptions, you know, and I will tell you, honestly,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: doctor Steven Williams, my perception, I totally removed the whole
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: responsible side of plastic surgery from a medical standpoint.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Treatment.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I had gotten so caught up in Hollywood, the Brazilian buds,
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the breast enlargement, the nose job, the lifts job, you know,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: the neckline uplifts and tightening those the jaws, and people
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: doing multiple surgeries. I want to look like Kim Kardashian.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: These are the things that will dominate our world. But
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: what you've enabled me to do on the show is
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: educate me about your world. Thank you for coming on
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Money Making Conversations Master Class.
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: Let me tell you about the host of Money Making Conversations,
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: Rushan McDonald. Rushan's a two time Emmy Award winner, three
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: time n doubleacp Immage Award winner, sitcom writer, stand Up
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: comic and former IBM executive. Thank you for joining us
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: for this edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: Conversations Masterclass with Rushan McDonald is produced by thirty eight
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: to fifteen Media Inc. More information about thirty eight to
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: fifteen Media Inc. Is available at thirty eight to fifteen
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  Speaker 6: media dot com. And always remember to lead with your gifts.