Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #220 | Building a 40-Year Legacy: How Alex Dwyer Is Leading Dwyer Quality Homes Into the Next Generation

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The Daily Dose #220 | Building a 40-Year Legacy: How Alex Dwyer Is Leading Dwyer Quality Homes Into the Next Generation · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:17) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder podcast. Today I've got a very special guest and it's actually someone that we kept our eye on years and years ago and for years when I worked at GJ Gardner Homes. Very interesting building company with a very rich history here on the Sunshine Coast. One of the best reputations and they now have ⁓ some fresh young blood who's been there for a long while, but now he's heating it up and it's an absolute honor to have him on the podcast. Introducing to you, Alex Dwyer from Dwyer quality homes, mate. don't know how long I've been wanting to speak to you. how are ya? I'm good. Thank you for having me. This is a, it's, it's exciting to chat about our family history and what's going on. Yeah. mate. You've got a phenomenal family history. And the coolest thing is I worked for a family that also knows your family. And honestly, like I'm originally from Sydney, but moving to the sunshine coast, it's like having that history here on the coast, man. must be like quite emotional for you guys, because you guys build along with some of these other major builders sort of here, bigger builders here, built the majority of the coast, man. What was that like as a kid? And what was your journey as a kid? Like driving around and going, yeah, we built that. We built that mate. That's, that would have been a dream of mine. It's, crazy to think like it was almost perfect time. And perfect kind of area to come up to the coast. my dad moved up here when he was quite, quite young, probably around, early twenties. And so he's just locked into the perfect situation. ⁓ had that kind of building background as this area was booming and, ⁓ very fortunate enough to kind of be one of the first building companies on the coast that did it in that large scale and to be able to pick up a lot of that work. So, yeah, driving around when I was kind of at the age, his was, he was, when he came up here to see all the houses that he's kind of built in the area and helped kind of develop. the sunshine coast to what it is today. Very different to what it was back then. I'm sure. that's why, lot of people kind of move away after having that, but then the same types of people were coming in and kind of relocating and migrating to the coast. And that's now the next generation that we're looking to build for. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. As I said, mate, like Alex, it must be really cool. And, know, right now we're even sitting in PJ burns old Rick Burns ol office. So I have. This is why I'm so pumped for this podcast, man. have Alex Dwyer sitting in my studio, like absolute legend Dwyer quality homes. We're sitting in Rick Burns' old office and I work for GJ Gardner Homes It's just got everyone, isn't it? It is, mate. ticking all the boxes. It's ticking all the boxes. Three great builders, but mate, yeah, your story. So when did you get into the company? How did it all start? You must've been immersed in it as a kid. Definitely immersed. I wouldn't say that. Like kind when I was in my late teen years that I had any real ambition of going, this is the job that I want and I'm going to strive for it. It was just kind of like, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. so obviously I had some sort of interest in construction. I've learned a lot during my, time growing up of building stuff randomly, like in the garage, obviously I did a lot of the stuff in school, all the construction stuff. So it was still sitting there and it was always an opportunity to kind of, to go through. So. as most people do when they graduate school, they go through their little phase where they don't know what they want to do. They'll just perfect place to just drive around and be a kid essentially. Uh, and then life hits you pretty quickly. You got to start to do something that you can't just, um, drive around the coast and cause a muck and go out to the United States and all that stuff. Uh, so I started to do a little bit of stuff in the business. So was helping out with a bit of IT. just being young, understanding, understanding a bit of technology, just kind of growing up being this age. So went in there, kind of gave them some assistance, did things here and there a bit of a boy friday. So if anyone needed labor, could go help out and do a bit of laboring or sitting up a computer or kind of doing anything like that. So I got a bit of an understanding of, the business at kind of multiple different ends. I did that for a few years and then it got to the point where it's like, okay, well, do you want to actually do a bit more work in there. So I took over quite a bit of the systems and the, when I say that, I like computer system, maintaining and making sure our database is clean. then it's something that builders don't do. It's crazy. I've heard some stories and it's like, well, I got to GJ Gardner, it wasn't done real well. Yeah. Something that we implemented and like, you know, huge builder, ⁓ franchise operation, yeah, didn't have something for the air from the top pushing down. ⁓ so what we had at that point in time was just like an off the shelf program, like anyone else would. then mixture of, cause that was just when, storing your files on like your own server or on the cloud or something was really starting to pop off. so it was just cleaning that up, making sure that it was easy, usable. People could access it remotely. So assisting with salespeople that are working in our remote displays to better connect into our system. That was really early on when I kind of first got into that. Now it's I previous, it wasn't assumed that they would have internet all the time at these displays. So we had to set it up. So it had some sort of remote capability where they didn't have anything. So dongles that are the size of your palm and all types of stuff that was And now I've been through the full thing. So, um, when I kind of came in, I obviously took over the computer stuff and then it was like, well, we built this legacy program back in the early 2000s, like pre GST of our full estimating system, full kind of jobs orders, accounting, that all got made in house by. Uh, but just, just like me had a passion for technology back then. So this estimating system and job system got developed for Dwyer's, uh, and then kind of around, I'd say 2002 stopped getting developed and they just kind of held onto it for a while. Cause that bloke left. Yeah. Um, hanging on by a thread, just hanging onto this one system for a while. And then it got to the point where it wasn't being updated. People in the office said, look, we need to move to something else. They went to the off the shelf program. And then it's like, well, This doesn't suit our systems. This isn't perfectly made for what we want to do. So, uh, my kind of real understanding of the business came from when we redeveloped that program into the current age. So I worked as like the conduit between the program developer who was based on the coast here, which is a surprise to get someone that codes in that language in Australia. Um, so he lived up in Yandina. So I kind of did make some trips up there and I was just acting as a conduit to say, look, this is our program. This is what we wanted to do. So it's a good starting point, but then Getting involved with that means I've learned the full system. know the system back to front jobs, orders, accounting, all that. So we've got the basics thing running and then we just start tacking things onto it. So we, we tacked our CRM onto it. We tacked more kind of sales person tools that we can kind of, make sure that we're the leads that we do get are going to be nurtured and pushed all the way through. and then we attach like a workflow program so that, ⁓ tasks don't get lost. like we've got full admin trackers and job trackers. So. We have that benefit of being able to modify this program. ⁓ and I've got a really good understanding from it. So I did that for probably two and a half years. And then we rolled the program out a lot of teething problems, of issues. It's a job man. I was around, ⁓ and sorry, you keep going, but I was around at GJs when we developed our own software greenhouse there, the custom software. That's a good team, mate. Like we working with a company in Belarus. Maybe I'm giving too much away. developers were in Belarus and maybe it was a task. It took a team to do that. Yeah. And obviously that's a larger scale. Like GJ is not a small operation, but it was just me and this one bloke. Yeah, but still man. And you get such a good understanding of the entire business, how it runs, how you should communicate. Obviously there was a really good skeleton there of what the system already did, but that skeleton doesn't always comply to what things or how things are done currently. So it was, was quite the process, big learning curve, especially when it got implemented. Yeah. lot of teething problems, stuff just like office who wasn't working. So that was like a year of kind of proper teething problems. Yeah. and then once it was kind of at a good stable point, we could then just keep building on it. And that was kind of my role in there. ⁓ halfway through that point, I kind of took over a bit more responsibility for like the group that surrounds the full business. so we've got retired villages. We've got our kind of spec operation that we run, to kind of keep jobs flying through acquiring land, throughout Sunshine coast, kind of North Brisbane. I took over that cause we still had a general manager that was operating at that point. And then kind of got to a few years that general manager didn't particularly like, the role anymore. I wanted to kind of step away from bit of responsibility. said, well, like you're a great fit here. Like you've been with us since the early two thousands as well. can we kind of keep you on board? And he's, he's still with us. He's estimated now. So he's doing that. ⁓ that system, is really good. Uh, and then that was ended 24. So 25 was my first year. I kind of with, he kind of thought the same thing, but like I've been in there for so long that, uh, I could probably do that job. So a lot of the, with all the group stuff, as long as, uh, along with running all the people and the operation there. it's been really fun. kind of gave myself a few months to see how it would go. And with the possibility of saying, look, if this, if my workload's too high and I can't kind of dedicate enough to it, then I'll look to get someone else. But. Um, it's been really good, like the culture that's been set up in that business over the 40 years has been fantastic. Like it's, it's a really good culture to go in there. People like, obviously like working in there and working in there and getting some good feedback from people. So it's really exciting. Oh, I was blown away, man. That is so cool. That is such a cool story. And it, you know, you, that was the thing, you know, um, even though you're part of the family, man, you did the hard yards, the business. And I'll tell you what, was one other thing. I just had a podcast this morning, actually, just before you came in, Alex, and I talked to this Danish Nordic construction system guy from Sweden. was going to say Daneland, but he's in Sweden. And he said to me, I said, what makes a good builder? What do you reckon? And he said to me, and I liked the way he thinks actually. And he said, know, beside the craftsmanship and all that stuff, good builders, the systems architect. And maybe he didn't like, I know that sounds like a role in a position in an IT crew, but he didn't sort of mean that he meant, you know, they're looking at systems of the entire business, how it fits together. How do you piece it together? How do you improve them? How does that communicate? What's your CRM that all, you know, that lays the foundation of the business to do good business and become a good builder. Information breakdown is a huge thing. You just did it, man. How old were you? When I started? I don't care about age, but I'm old now. you know, interview young fellas like you that do freaking great work and I wish I was you and I'm like, when did you do this? Because I didn't do it at that age. So how old were you, man? When I kind of started for 22, but now I'm 29 now. So it's quite a process. Big learning curve. Obviously I've got very fortunate to be able to learn from my dad as well who ran the business for all that time before me. Starting a business on Ilma coast when there wasn't a whole lot of people here and you've kind of You had no name to kind of rely upon. Um, you have to have really good business practices, especially to maintain like to celebrate 40 years. Uh, it's it's a big effort. obviously great, great learnings from there, but then also the team that, um, has been instilled in that, uh, office over there, they're really experienced and it's not just me that kind of, um, leads in there. Everyone in there is also a leader and really good at what they do. It's cool. As I said, it's phenomenal. know there's other people behind the scenes, but it's, love the way you think about it. And for a community is taught, as I said, I'm originally from city being here a long while on the sunshine coast, but everyone kind of knows everyone. It's like a big country town. So to maintain a reputation as a good builder, particularly in this area for 40 years, it's tough as well. know, so I take my hat off to you, but mate, now you're sitting at 29, you're heading up the company. You got to respect the legacy of the 40 years, what are you thinking about? How are you going to move to our quality homes forward? What's your focus? It's, it's got to change. Like we can't build houses like we used to. It's just not how things happen. Unfortunately, like there's a lot of learnings that have been had in that 40 years. And it's really good to kind of hear the learnings, but at the same time, we need to explore different opportunities. Like we've normally taken a stance. on one particular viewpoint. And we said, look, we're not going to do that type of work because it's a bit too difficult, bit too complex, very risky. And there's because there's plenty of work elsewhere that we can go get. But now that elsewhere work is starting to dwindle. So we really need to focus on doing the more complex stuff that could be a bit more risky. So as long as we go about it the right way and make sure that we're protected and make sure that we're informing the client kind of what we're thinking at the same time, we don't just want to kind of throw money at the problem and not tell them why we're doing that. We want to open the conversation up to say, look, this is what we're thinking. Um, this is why we're kind of doing what we're doing. And it kind of, if, if I was the client, I would feel a lot more comfortable, um, with that, which is how I make a lot of my decisions. I sit in their chair, put my, um, myself in their shoes and go, if a builder was telling me that when I'm about to spend potentially the largest purchase of my life and they're not telling me anything, how would that make me feel? So that's why I try feel like I can, yeah, keep the clients up to date, keep them informed of what's happening, what we're kind of thinking, what we're feeling so that they can feel comfortable about the decision. Because there's a lot of horror stories out there of, of either when things go wrong or just lack of communication that people get turned away from building. And it's really, it's really inspiring when people can. build a house that suits their lifestyle perfectly. yeah. And if they've been turned off once by a builder, they'll just go, I don't want to that again. I'll just buy someone else's dream and make it fit into what my dream is. And sometimes it just doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is such a cool podcast. Like, I'm just sitting here, like just listening to you. I wish you could just keep talking and I have to talk because your, your story is amazing. And I think it's very cool. And one of the things that I'm really noticing about you. think you may mention it is that, you know, having that youth, you know, is a bit of a strength. And I genuinely think it is. think there's, maybe I've said this before on the podcast. So I'm going to say, I think there's these old school builders, maybe I'm not splitting them into two groups. I'm just going to name two categories. I kind of say there's this new breed. ⁓ There's a new breed of builder and there's a good builder down in Tassie actually called Carl's and Edo and you remind me a bit of him. Um, he's a younger guy. think he's about your age. He owns the NATO builders and you look at things differently. Like, you think that youth and like, what do you think that sort of. Brand to the business, you coming into it and, know, heading it up with the, with the younger sort of, think it's really good. Um, but you've got to make sure that you stay within your reins because the youth of today can sometimes do a lot of crazy things. Um, it's fine to kind of think that way, but then you've got to assess the situation. So. Like I said before, I've heard of all these kinds of risks that happen. I haven't personally been in control in those, those risks or those outcomes of kind of rolled out. I've seen the aftermath of them that kind of trail along with legal stuff and, QBCC stuff, but I can see them there, but I still want to make kind of my own mistakes, but I want to assess them before they go in. we can be in the best possible position before it gets to that point. Yeah. So if there is something complex or there's something that's a little bit outside of our kind of scope normally for what our 40 year history was, I don't want to say no to it straight away. I want to kind of assess it. Go, okay, this is something we can do, but let's do it right. And make sure that we're covering all kinds of bases before we can sign them up. Cause I don't want to just sign them up on a whim because you might get a fixed price contract and be on the negative side of it, or you might just not be able to do it. So if you make the right decision. Most of the time, you'll be okay. It's hard to kind of tell at the beginning, but just educate yourself as best as possible and then take the risk, not just go yet. We can do it. the risk and then use the, like I said before, our team and there's really experienced, grab the advice of them, kind of pitching the ideas, get all the information. Then you can make a really educated decision. That's what I think the youth does. as long as you kind of put some reins on it a little bit. Yeah. ⁓ but obviously there's people out there that don't rain it and they're really successful and keep doing what you're doing. Like it's cause that's what I kind of look to as well because you're judging both ends of the market. Like you said, that there's the older side that don't want to change anything. What, what happens at the moment keeps working. I'm just going to keep doing it. And then you've got the other side that the extreme. So as long as you find what you're comfortable with and the happy medium, then there shouldn't be too many issues. That's some great advice. And I think, uh, it will be on your years in terms of wisdom. know what I mean? And I guess it's because, you know, you've, you've obviously seen a lot of it and, you know, it, and how it can turn south. And then one of the things that you talked about just prior to that question was you, talked about a lot around communicating and being open with the customer and that transparency and getting almost, like you said, you know, going back to your team, assessing the risk, how are you going to do it? And then pitching it back to the customer or telling them how you're going to go about it. Is transparency something with Dwyer quality homes that you just, it's just embedded. Yeah, it is. And I try, make that the same for all the staff. So I try to be transparent with them when I'm making the decision that might not necessarily be client based, kind of more leadership based, so I can explain to them, get a lot of their feedback, even with like processes as well. Like I'll say, look, We're looking to change this process that we've got, get some communication back from the staff, what they think at the end of the day, I'm still going to make the decision of what I think is the best. but then the same thing goes for all the client stuff. So we'll talk it over as a team. If, if the team is required for that one, and then we'll provide, something that we feel if we're on the other side, a lot of that is, ⁓ how we go about thinking things is put yourself in the client shoes. Like if you were to receive this information, how would that come back to you? That would be a lot different for me to then someone else in the staff. So. I've obviously got my view of what if I was the client, how I'd feel, but then you get that same feedback from someone else and they might have a different view. So you get all those types of different views and you go, okay, well, this is what I think I'm comfortable with to tell the client so that they can feel comfortable. And a lot of the times we get good feedback about how kind of open and transparent we are. Because none of them we're just doing it for the clients, but we're doing it for each other and this is inside the company and It's really positive. Yeah. It's something that you're definitely known for here on the coast. Like honestly, like a lot of, I know people that have built with you guys, other builders that talk about you guys, same sort of thing, transparency. And we talk about it a bit on the podcast. I think transparency and that communication piece are the most important things for any builder and that's how you build trust. And that's how you hang around for forty years And some people that don't necessarily do that the ones that can kind of run into some issues and they're where the bad stories sometimes come from. It's not always the case. Like there's, there's bad stories that can be, ⁓ two sided. so it's always just, trying your best and what you feel comfortable with as long as you can, kind of keep that open, transparent conversation that you feel that you're positive about it. You know, you know the business. Well, um, so you've got some exceptional people. around you as well, like that sit on the board or in your business. Like this gentleman, Ben Murphy, that's been working with you for years. Is it important, you know, as a business, the people and who you surround yourself around? that intentional, mate? We've got a really high longevity of staff in there. We've got multiple people that have surpassed 10 years. The maximum I think is 33 for our construction manager down in Brisbane. It's crazy. So, then previous to that, the first First general manager we had was there for 25 plus years. Quite easily. We've got staff in there, construction staff. They've been 10 plus admin staff also 10 plus. like we've got, uh, people that are obviously really happy to work there, but then come with a wealth of experience. um, Ben Murphy, who you were just mentioning was he started as a drafty back when he was probably, uh, a bit younger than where I am now. And then moved to contract admin, um, did a bit of estimating, then did our orders and takeoffs and then. from that role to go over general manager for at around 2018. and then finished up in that role in 2024. but then moved back to our estimating position. So he likes working there. likes people in there and it just shows that we've got a serious wealth of experience, not knowing on the construction side, but in the admin side as well. and you've got a serious number of homes that you built. Serious number. Yeah. So, I think what is it? Alex, think it's over 2000 homes. that you've built pretty much locally here. Yep. Which is absolutely, you know, phenomenal and crazy as we started the pod. I I wish I was you as a kid even though that's weird. And I could have been driving along with your dad and pointing out roads. probably too weird. But you know, along the way of building these 2000 homes, what are some of the biggest mistakes and learnings from the Dwyer Quality Homes that sort of learned over the 40 years? At the beginning, obviously, when I was involved with it, it would have been flying. Obviously there's a lot of benefits of a smaller market for a lot of demand and less regulation regulation. but then as time goes on, like you said, regulations got a lot harder. Competition's gotten a lot harder. and the, the, percentage of all the ratio between land and house has completely flipped to what it used to be. So for you, your total package that you got, you could quite easily spend 20 % on your land and then have a nice house to go with it. That's flipped to 70, 80 % land in some instances. Um, obviously that means that our portion is, is disappearing. Uh, but to be able to get what people want, uh, there's kind of quite a forward anymore. So it's finding those avenues, um, of kind of constructive design to make sure they can get something that they still like, um, for a lot of those. So we've initially started as like a standard plan builder, just like anyone else would have. Um, because having that customized sense wasn't always available to a lot of people. ⁓ so we've gone through both methods multiple times, switched back before between being predominantly like a custom build specialist back to more of a standard plan type one. now we kind of operate with both, but we're more custom build. So our standard plans are there as like a, as a starting point for a lot of people. And it's like, okay, what, what, what would, you like, what do want to change? What do you want to do? So pretty much. I'd say 70 % of our houses that we build to be customs. Where the standards that we do would predominantly be just the specs that we kind of will build and then sell off or kind of investment stuff that we can, we can produce. So it's very much custom built. So every job kind of goes through the system being assessed on its merits as a, as a custom home. So it's not like ⁓ we're reusing anything or anything that's just been pushed through. Everything gets kind of looked at and assessed as best as possible. Bloody hell. Yeah, it's what you gave away there, I think to the builders was pretty cool, Like the way they think about, you know, having a set standard plans that you can then use as a launch pad for your clients to customize and because, you know, as you say, you know, to give that away is pretty cool. Yeah, Alex, to the guys out there, because I think a lot of people struggle with the design piece, don't they? Like, and to visualize, mean, I wish before we jumped on this pod. Everyone Alex and I were talking and I had a brief chat about how I tried to start a building company and all this sort of thing. And we wanted to be a large acreage builder, we, it wasn't until we started to put out some plans that people started to notice us and then like a plan. And then from there, we moved into that. Yeah. As you said, it's hard because Everyone likes something different. So you can't make a thousand standard plans that suit everyone. So you have to, you have to have a starting point. Um, there's going to be people out there that judge you off your standard plans and that's fine. You can't do anything about it, but you just need that first conversation to say, look, we can do whatever you want. We can design. We've got the experience. Um, the hardest thing about custom houses is no bathrooms are the same. So it's trying to find bathroom layouts that work, making sure that integrates well with shower screens and vanities and baths to make sure that there's no kind of. weird corners that might be hard to clean or that just don't work out. So because a lot of our airplanes are custom, we can kind of use that experience to say, look, this is what we'll kind of do with the bathroom. So we're providing the feedback to them. They're still obviously making the decision what they want to do. We're not going to push you into a corner and say, no, you can't have that. Unless it's something that you definitely can't have, but obviously we try working with them as best as possible. I fucking love this conversation, mate. Like you seriously are giving so much great info and you've seen so much. over the years and what you saw to describe with like changing customer tastes over the years. What have you sort of seen with like the market? What are you seeing more broadly changing in the market in terms of, you don't mind me asking about, know, not a bit deeper in your business, but like, how are you guys going for trades? You mentioned before the pod that lands something that's pretty hard, like lands very hard to like government do something like putting some land out or developers. What are some of the challenges you're up against in 2026? reckon land's the biggest one. it's just availability. Like, there's, there's land available, but the cost will push a lot of people out. and for the land that is available, it kind of just gets strung out for a long time before rego. So it's people that are in this situation. They've gone, okay, I've got my budget. This is the block of land. Fantastic. It's going to be registered on X day. and I know roughly how much a build is going to cost. can kind of provide some quotes and then months go by lands not ready. something gets pushed out and then unfortunately like things go up in price. So our price is going up, which means that their total package is going up. It might sometimes go outside of their budget and then they're like, okay, well we now have to pull the house back because of the situation that we're in. So it's just difficult for a lot of people and unfortunately there's not much we can do in that situation. that's. how much the house costs. And it's just there being hamstrung by the land component. But for the build side, you see a lot of people being smarter with their design. So finding things that might be cheaper, but that still have that same effect on the house. So obviously people always want stone in their kitchens. Sometimes stone that might not be available. That's had a lot of regulation changes with stone. So ⁓ the product itself might not work that great, but now your laminates and everything can be. a little bit better quality than what they're kind of used to be looked at. But it just, it just changes. Some people would appreciate having the stone there just for the sake of I can feel it. It's got that cool kind of feel to it where people sometimes might just want the look so they can go to a more kind of laminate solution or just get creative with, different options. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. You're giving so much away. I don't feel bad, but it's amazing to get this information out of, um, you know, a builder that's been around for 40 years and seen it all. And, know, you're coming in with some fresh eyes is freaking amazing. It's just our perspective of what we're saying. Like there's obviously other, um, they could see something completely different because they're appealing to a different client base and what we are. Yeah. Um, have a different history. I was going to ask about trades for example. Like how are you for trades at the moment? Is your history and partnerships and all that loyalty? We've got some good law trades, which is really positive. We've paid weekly for as long as I can remember, which keeps, keeps trades wanting to work for you. So I've got longevity of trades. So we've got painters who trained up a painter who's now our painter. So we've gone through kind of the same, same type of person for a long time. Same with plumbers and sparkies. Like we try to keep a law trade base. ⁓ so during tough times, like, when back in 2020, when things got pretty crazy and prices started to skyrocket, these reliable trades that we had didn't kind of gouges. We can have that conversation and say, look, they know that elsewhere that they can get more money. so we kind of kept a reasonable balance and we're quite happy to keep working with them. We're on the other side. You have one that you haven't really dealt with much, or they just went out there for a bit of money. It's like, okay, well, it'll swing back the other way. We'll remember that then, we won't be. using you guys in the future. Yeah, yeah. That's just a situation. Obviously, there's a lot of discussion about trades moving forward with the amount of developments going to happen in Brisbane. Yeah. The amount of insurance work that's been happening all through Queensland. I there's a lot of climate disasters that are happening and they're just getting sucked away to all these insurance money. That's there. stupid, don't they? Paid a lot like you could be a chippy and have 250 grand a year by just working around insurance stuff. It's crazy. And then you've got people that are my age that grew up thinking, I don't want to be a brick layer. and that's now fully flown through and there's no kind of quality brickies anymore. And it's, we just can't get them. Yeah. So we're trying to find different materials now that can kind of substitute that brick. It's hard. Like I still think exposed brick, zero maintenance. Like it's an easy product. but there's definitely stuff that's coming through now that can kind of replicate that type of same thing with, but it's, it's now going have that rendered finish, which means it's not always going to be. ⁓ maintenance free, but if you can't get a brick layer or if you can, it's going to cost you too much. Then that price of, of maintenance free, external claddings is going to outweigh itself. What about prefabrication? What do think about that in construction coming from a, you know, I've seen all the tiny home stuff that they kind of pick up a house and they can obviously the manufacturer, the whole thing in a warehouse. I think that's really good. And it's. It definitely needs to be there for an avenue for people that just can't afford. it's, it's expensive to bring all the materials to site and have everyone to go to site, to build it. So I think there's definitely a market for it it should remain because, we need to be able to provide housing for these people. Cause they, do want it. They, can subdivide a small block of land. They've got, parents that live on a farm, just come and put something on it. Obviously you need council to play ball on the other side to make sure that, we can do it, but there's. It's got its place, but for us, we're not going to go down that avenue. We're quite happy continuing what we're doing. Prefab frames and trusses is probably the extent of the prefab stuff. But technology is always changing. got to look out, like you see some stuff in Europe of full kind of wall systems that have been transported out that have fully clad, they've got chip rock and everything. All services already included in the walls. Not quite made it down to Australia ship, but always got to keep your eye open because it might be the next best thing that rolls out. You were so wise. know, that was the guy I had a chat with the guy just before you on that. That's what he does. That's pretty fab. Really interesting. That's what I wanted to ask you. And I think you, yeah, you gave a really good summary of where it's at. And that was exactly what he said. It hasn't made it down there. think it may be the future people builders is going to get used to it and how it all puts together. But it's, it's an interesting product. It's service as well. I kind of get confused about like, how do you connect all the services between walls? And I'm sure there's a way that would have thought about it. Yeah. But it's obviously educating the people. in the area, they have to put it together. It's like, then the client, as you do it, why don't you give the Ikea manual to all the chippies that are out there, they'll be able to manage it. it together, mate. I wanted to ask you, we've got a couple more questions. But one of the things was, you know, we both will, you kind of, you know, own and run a family owned awesome company. And I worked for one with Greg Gardner, and I used to have an old, he used to tell me a few funny old stories. When you were talking about trades, used to say that What he wanted us to do and what he used to do back in the day was have pigeon holes and everyone came in on a Friday and you know, collected their pay. But it was so we could get some face time with the trades. Were there any old school sort of things that your dad or people in the team did that were, know, we don't do today, but you could see some reasoning behind them. think definitely having that face to face stuff was a huge thing back then, like pre mobile phones, like you always hear stories about like you would, or like you'd call up a tradie and it's like, okay, well I'm going to meet you there. seven, three tomorrow. And that's it. Like it'll be there seven, three tomorrow. There's no 12 o'clock that night. He texts you and goes, man, I'm going to make it. And that throws your whole job off. Um, having them come in to kind of, uh, bring their invoices or to do anything. You get that face to face. They know the office. I know the people in the office. I know who's calling them. Um, so you get a lot more connection that happens in there. Like we've, don't, he's retired now, but we had a tile that used to still come in with his handwritten invoices. That's cool. Back in like four, 2000. It's 15, I would say, still came in, dropped them all off. That's cool. said a lot of everyone in there and, he's obviously retired now. Cause it's very old school. Yeah. Didn't have an email or anything. that's mad. ⁓ that's what I love about the industry too. You know, I, I can see that Dwyer quality homes, although it flourishes, it's going to flourish with, know, you in there with new blood and you looking at new things, I do feel in some way in my heart that like, the rich history of construction and the mateship in construction and the partnerships is what I love. And this is why I started the good bit. love talking to blokes like you just get good people. Like I think we can't lose that connection, you know, and, however we implement that, you know, whether it be through maybe toolbox talks, we've invited them more and start lunches and different things. think it's something we just can't miss, man. Like I just. I love that stuff. Yeah. There's supplies out there that we've got that really want to kind of bring that back as well. They're trying to bring back like a, a site barbecue or something where we can get all the trades together. It's just hard now that, the way that things are built, but don't really, we're not really trade stacking a huge amount. So it's not like we've got a commercial site with huge amounts of people there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's, it's hard to kind of get everyone to be around that same place at once. you got your standard like Christmas party that you would. throw for a few your subbies out there. Yeah. but it's, that kind of camaraderie is starting to disappear for residential construction purely because, it's being so spread out now as well. Yeah. Well, mate, I like you so much. If you ever wanted me to, know, man a barbecue for one of your build sites, I'd do it for you. I'll just turn it up and do it for you because I think that would be cool. You know, you get, you get the fellas a feed and stuff like that. But, I do have just a couple more questions. Looking ahead for Dyer, what do you see, you know, what are you going to get up to in the next few years? What are the things you're planning on? I'll say our kind of main goal is to keep that custom build idea, but then kind of pushing it a bit further and finding the more complex jobs. Because as I've said, the easy ones aren't as easy to come by anymore. The only available kind of vacant land, unless it's a knockdown on the coast is the land that's kind of been pushed away because it's too hard for a long time. Yep. until it gets to the point now where it's like, okay, we're going to need to develop that because that's the only vacant land that we've got either. It's got flooding issues. It's got rock issues, slope issues. It could be anything. So we're going to lean into a bit more complex builds and then also refining a great system for knockdown rebuilds and be able to help the clients walk through that process. Because if they want vacant land, they're either knocking it down or they're finding something difficult. So if we want to keep maintaining the Sunshine Coast kind of build. which we do, we still also build, north and south of the sunshine coast. It's making sure the clients feel comfortable with that full process of, of, of a demo to then put in the house on it because it's hard people getting lazy, in this day and age, they normally are kind of, our instructions would be okay. Well, we can obviously price the house up, but we're not going to do the demolition side that's on you. It's going to save you a lot of money if you do it as well. ⁓ but now they don't want that either. Just do the whole thing for me. Awesome. It's like, well, awesome in a way. Yeah. It's like we tell them it's like, it's going to cost you. Like we're just going to put our margin or a margin or something on the, on the demo and they go, yeah, that's fine. As long as it all kind of gets covered and sorted. Um, so we've got a few of those that are in our system, fuel and construction and fuel and admin that it's, um, we're still fine. I'm still finalizing, um, the process for it because like I'm, I'm new in doing that as well. Obviously we've done knockdowns before. Um, but they kind of been on a case by case and now with the current climate and especially in the area, we've got a really cemented proper system, uh, to roll that out. Yeah. Love it, man. Everything you've said today, you know, you just processing things, you're getting it right. How do you do it? So you can just replicate it over and over again and give a great experience. I know that I'm going to make mistakes in there. And I've told the team that as well, it's like, we're, we're to try something that we all think, or that I think, or we all think that is the best outcome. And if it's not. then fantastic. We're going to learn from that so that when this, uh, position arises again, it's like a war being here before we know it doesn't work. So let's, let's try what did work in the end. Um, just really good. As long as you kind of learn from all your experiences, uh, as you keep doing more and more, you're just going to be, uh, better and better at it. And it's, it's a hard sell between those two of do you tell the client that you haven't done this type of stuff before? What do you, um, so you got to balance, uh, um, process a bit of if you're going to what you disclose by also trying to be as transparent as possible. So that's, that's just the trust that you've got to get with the client. Yep. Absolutely. You know what? I said it early in the podcast and it still lends me back to what this bloke just said to me around being a, in his words, a systems architect where you're processing everything and getting the foundations right. And that makes a good builder because you know how to perform and give an expectation going forward. So mate. At the age of 29, I wish I was you basically. Thank you. Smart as you are, man. would, ⁓ yeah, I wouldn't be sitting here, but anyway, cause I wanted to be a But anyway, I'm doing the next best thing. Last question. And you know, Alex, that we called the good builder here, the good builder. what do you think makes a good builder Alex? ⁓ it's all the things we've touched on like open and transparent and having a good system behind you. So it's. It's fine if you're like a small nail bag builder and you've got everything in your head and you've got the operation, you've got one or two a year. fantastic. Love that. But then the second you want to start to scale, you need to have things in the background so that if you were to check out for a week, things will still happen. Things, things won't get lost. So it's having a really robust system, that's sitting in behind you and just being open and honest to, to your clients. You can't really go wrong. if you're doing that all the time, I, ⁓ I think you, the definition of a good builder. am so excited to watch you over the next few years. And I hope we're around for as long as you are around. don't know about that, we'll stick around as long as we can. You can be sure everyone out there that will be following this guy and his team and, and do I quality homes that we've been building beautiful homes for 40 years. And I love what you've done here on the coast. makes me a bit emotional. It's weird. ⁓ in terms of like the stuff that you do and, ⁓ yeah, man, I can't wait to see what you did. If you like the barbecue offer is on offer. will go cook one. And if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to come out to one of your build sites and maybe do a bit of a tour and interview with you or one of your team, your supervisors and show the world how do I do it. I like that. Thank you very much, man. Cheers. You're a freaking legend. Thank you, mate.