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Aggressive Fat Loss Explained: How To Lose Fat Fast Without Losing Muscle · Beyond Fat Loss

• Katie & Sean Darlow: Welcome to Beyond Fat Loss podcast, where we don't just stop at fat loss, you'll learn about all the good stuff that follows. How to build muscle, how to enjoy more food and how to stay lean without going to extremes. We are your hosts, Sean and Katie. And today we're going to be talking about the aggressive diets we will be running for the next few weeks. By the time you listen to this episode, operating and getting Operation. I see. By the time you listen to this episode, Operation Get Shredded would have commenced. We're going to talk about how we feel going into the aggressive fat loss block and how we're going to execute it. We'll chat about our plans with our training, how we'll manage some events and what sort of results we hope to see. If you'd like to learn how to get accelerated fat loss, If you'd like to learn how to get accelerated fat loss results without hitting every second of the process and without feeling like you need to restrict yourself forever to keep the results, this episode is for you. Get your notepads at the ready folks. And as always, if you'd like to support the Beyond Fat Loss podcast, drop the episode a like, subscribe or follow on whatever platform you're listening on. You can leave us a comment or review and in this you could suggest any topics you'd like us to discuss. Feel free to leave us a comment or a view, maybe some suggestions of any topics you'd like us to discuss in the upcoming episodes, all those would be greatly appreciated. You can also connect with us on social media by searching for Sean SKD Coaching or Katie SKD Coaching, all one word on Instagram. So Katie, to kick things off, how do you feel about going into the aggressive fatloss phase? The first emotion that comes to mind is excited. I never thought I would say I'd be excited about going into a calorie deficit or into a diet. For many years, I used to just find them a drag and felt like, ⁓ do I have to do that again? it that time again? Whereas now I feel, I think the main emotion is I feel excited by it. Determined, determined to... get a result that I've never had before, which probably leads to why I feel it's exciting for me, right? Whereas I think years ago, was perhaps I was going into a calorie deficit or to lose some body fat that I might have regained or. I hadn't really focused on building muscle that much, so there was an awful lot of change every time I lost body fat in terms of how my physique looked. Whereas this time, I'm heading into it after an eight to nine month building phase. prioritizing building muscle, which hopefully has added some mass to my frame to add a little bit more shape, shall we say. And I'm going into a fat loss phase that is shorter and sharper. And I think those things alone, those two things, the fact that it's short and sharper and the fact that my results are hopefully gonna be something new and different to what I've experienced before makes it. exciting. Do you think going into the fat loss phase this time around is also more exciting because you already know what you're going to be experiencing, you've already done one of these aggressive fat loss blocks, so you kind of know what the worst of it is and you also know the kind of results you're to get off the back of it as well. Yeah it's not going into the unknown is it, it's not that overwhelming feeling of how am going to manage this, how am I going to do it, what foods am I going to eat. How will I feel? Will I be able to work? How will my training be? How long am I going to have to make this drag out for? All of those questions that could potentially put Big Barry in the place of even starting a fat loss phase. They're not there. It's more of a, okay, it's time now to focus on fat loss. So there's a few key elements that I'll change, but I know how quickly, how to, I know how to. change from one face to the other quite seamlessly now I would say. you have any nerves going into it this time around? Yeah of course I think it'd be... I think it'd be odd if there wasn't some kind of nerves or apprehension about it. Because if you anything you really care about deep down or really want for yourself, there's going to be some nerves with that, right? Because you want to be able to perform well and you want to get the results that you really hope that you can get. And it is going to be hard at times. There's no two ways about losing body fat. You know, yeah, we know it's simple. scientifically to lose body fat, but the application of it isn't always simple and easy. Life isn't perfect. There's a lot of responsibilities and I think it's accepting that it is going to be hard at times. but it's a challenge I want to. take on with both hands. What's the saying? first challenge I really want to take on. How are you, Sean? That's how I feel. But what about you? How do you feel about going into your aggressive fat loss phase this time? Now, do you know what? You feel excited about it, but I feel, and this is me being 100 % honest, I feel completely indifferent about this fat loss phase this time round. I could go without it and not really worry about it too much. And I'm also not that excited by doing it, which is really fascinating because I would say that I felt more like you in the last few times I've done a fat loss phase. In fact, when I went into the first aggressive fat loss phase I did last year, I was more excited about doing it than I am this time around. It's interesting you said that actually. think if I reflect back on the key you said I've done an aggressive fat loss phase, right? I have. But it a very short-lived one. We've got two and a half weeks, max three weeks around some netball trials last year. So yeah, I've had exported to it, but it was such a short stint that it didn't really take me further along. So think I was a bit indifferent about my results last time I done it, but done it for the experience of an aggressive diet so I can... A, support myself and B, support clients in future. But back to you, Shaun. It made me think why, why, why was, why am I more excited this time and reflecting on it? I think that's why. But tell me more about why you're feeling different. I think my circumstances are a bit more unique. My goals are very much around building my physique. The mentality is putting more muscle onto my frame. It's growing, it's building, it's getting stronger. The fat loss phase for me this time round is A good way to kind of see where I'm at, a good way to see what muscle I've developed and to really view my physique with, I guess, a little bit more of a, I want to say like a bodybuilding style lens, I guess is the way that I would look at it, I'm not a competitive bodybuilder for anyone listening. There are certain parts of that aesthetic that I like. and I'm doing this naturally. you know, the image that you may have in your head of bodybuilding is different to what I would have in my head, doing it naturally. But at the same time, yeah, I feel like my body is in a good place. That's the honest truth. I feel really comfortable with my physique at the moment. I'm probably carrying just a tiny bit more body fat than I'd like to maintain all year round, ideally, but that's because I have been Doing this for six months now, like I've been building muscle for about six months now. And it's natural for you to get to that point eventually where you start to feel like, okay, I'm losing just a little bit of that muscle sharpness, that definition. So getting that back and seeing that again will be cool. And that part will be exciting as I see my body fat dropping off and revealing a bit more of that muscle shape and definition I think will be cool. But there's no real like. urge to do it if that makes sense like there's no real driver to do it this time around like sometimes I want to lean down a little bit more to go on holiday or like last year for example it was the first time that I'd taken my body fat to that new level I'm not sure if I'm going to be going beyond that with this fat loss phase this year don't know if I'm going to be getting leaner than what I did last year so it's just kind of like part of the process so yeah it's it's it's a strange one I'm not as excited about it as I was for the last time I done it But I'm sure as I go through the process and I start to see my body shape change in, that will make me more excited about the process as well. No, it's interesting what you said and I can understand that. I think I have felt indifferent about going into fatlifters in the past when realistically I knew it wasn't going to take me to a new place per se, it was just going to tip away at a bit of body fat. I think that's where you're at at the moment. It's, yeah, you're going trip away again so I can go back to building again because ultimately I want to keep building muscle. I obviously want that as well, but for me, It's a, this is kind of new territory for me now. Because where I've maintained my body fat levels this build, the hope is that I can actually spend, you know, two to three solid cycles in an aggressive diet, which I haven't done for, well, I've never done, may I add, that aggressively, and not for that period of time, given how I played netball consistently for. every month of the year for the last few years. So hasn't been lot. haven't been able to commit to that journey for a long time. So think it's interesting to hear different perspectives on it actually, because how I feel is excited by it, right? And you're a bit indifferent. For the listeners that are listening to this right now, it's however you feel about it is okay. But, I'll... One thing to consider is that you're probably getting leaner in this next fat loss phase than perhaps you've ever been before. Having built a fairly decent amount of muscle and developed your shape and your physique a lot more. So you're going into the unknown. In some ways I will be doing the same, but I don't think that I'll get that much leaner than what I did last time out. and I don't know how much of a difference that will make because again my goal is to build the muscle now I don't feel like I'm struggling to see the muscle I'm developing at the moment because my body fat levels aren't that high. What I'm hoping is that when I get as lean as I did before, or even just slightly leaner, I will see more of the muscle. And when I get those kind of comparison pictures and when I can review that process, I will see the improvements that I've made to my physique and my muscle size. But I'm not going into it with the expectation of looking much leaner than what I've looked previously. It's more a case of, I'm then going to have a look at my muscle shape and plan out my next building phase to see. okay, what would I like to work on next? Where would I like to take things from here on? So yeah, I guess I'm looking at it from more of an analytical perspective going into it, which isn't very emotionally led. It's a bit more logistical. Whereas you're probably looking at it from a bit more of an excitable perspective because it's genuinely something which is quite new to you and different. It is. Like I said just now, I've never... I haven't committed to an AED phase from this many cycles before, because I haven't been able to since learning about the new protocol. So it is new territory. And I think I get quite excited about looking forward to the unknown, I guess, what could that be? And knowing that at the end of this fat loss phase, it's not, it's the end. It's, okay, well, what's next then? And I'm really excited to get back into. another long-term build because the last eight months have been, I've really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it. Katie, there's a question I wanna ask you because I've heard other people ask you this in person. I've heard some of the netball girls ask you this in person. Why is it important for you to be doing a fat loss phase right now when most people who know you would look at you and think you look great, you don't need to lose any more fat. So why would you push yourself that bit further and take it that bit further? I've never been there before. I think I have an image in my mind where I want to see more definition. I want to have more shape to my physique. But for others they would look at that and say you already look like you've got definition, you already have shape to your physique. So how would you answer that? ⁓ this is a good question. This is a very good question because Am I unhappy in my body shape right now? No, I'm not. That is the truth. If I had to go on holiday tomorrow, I wouldn't be bothered. I've got no qualms with any clothing I wear at the moment. I'm quite comfortable with that. I'm happy with that. I'd say I'm quite content in my body shape and quite proud of where it is now in comparison to where it was many years ago. But for me, I... I have a physique in mind that I would like to achieve. And I've never been able to achieve that yet. What if I seek? Describe it. I would like to. lean down more to the point where there's more muscle deafness and showing across my torso, across my shoulders, my arms, whilst my shoulder, my limbs I would say actually, my shoulders, arms, limbs, they are... Fairly lean now, but I can see a bit of definition, but I wanna see more. I wanna see more Cobra chair in those areas. My torso's never really been. very lean or super lean, I've never really had much definition in that area. And for ⁓ years, I think that's because I didn't put much emphasis on building muscle and particularly in those areas. So for me, the physique I have in mind is... I want to have a smaller waist. But it's not just to have a smaller waist, I just want to have more curves. So I've been quite, I wouldn't say straight up and down and haven't been for a long time, I don't know to describe this very well. find it very hard to describe the image I have in my head but I have an image that I really want to work towards. Have I already described it and I'm just over talking? Not sure, really. Okay. I I've waffled on for about three, four minutes here, just describing my physique, it's really not good enough. Don't want to say that sorry, babe. I really want to be able to see more muscle definition. Babe, you've said muscle definition like 12 times. I don't know how to describe it. If you can't describe it then what? I can. How can you show your personality and be relatable if you can't really describe it? Keep going. Anyway. No, babe, I need to be able to do this. Please don't push it to the side now. Please stop repeating muscle definition. Like people don't know what you mean. They don't know what you mean. These people listening just don't know what you Why don't they? Because you're not describing it, it's not descriptive enough. How do I describe that more? Oh, but I'm not doing this with the mics on. help, I don't know, that's how I would describe it. If I at a physique, I say I want that definition. Yeah, but you know what you're on about. You know that you're looking at definition. Yeah. You know what you're looking at. People don't. How do I describe definition any other way? ⁓ I can't, I'm not gonna talk. I would appreciate your opinion sir. Why do we have to do this every week with these mics on and have these deep intense discussions and then I have to spend ages editing out? takes up so much time now while we're meant to be recording. me, definition defines, so why, what's balance It's going take up loads of time that we're meant to be recording and then I'm going to edit all this shit out as well which takes me more time in editing. It's double handling work all the time because of these discussions. You're meant to be talking to your niche. I thought I was but you were looking at me blankly. Because you mentioned definition like five times. What is definition? say. They want to be torn. How would you describe what a defined look is? How would you describe what defined is? Like describe it. Less fat, more muscle. Okay, that's it. That's it. No, it's not though, is it? But how do you know how to describe it without looking at an image? Is it truth? You need to work on your descriptives, Katie. They're not strong enough, okay? Let's move on now because Katie, I cannot continue to do this for 20 minutes now. We need to move on. Please don't panic me now. You asked me a really good question. I need to be able to answer that. We're still on section one, babe. Can we move on now, please? Oh, OK. So fuck that question then. Let's just leave it. Can I just try answering it simply now after the break and you might be able to cut out all of the pre-use bit before up to your question? Yeah, whatever you want, babe. This is a great question. And before I go into describing the look that I want, I think it's important to just let people know that the stage I'm at now in my journey, I am confident and I am happy in my body shape, but I just want something more for myself, something that I haven't ever really been able to achieve. And for me, that is... I want to have less body fat everywhere. want to have less body fat everywhere. And I was to some, seems like I'm not carrying a lot of body fat. It's surprising how much body fat you can lose. And I would like to experience what having less body fat looks like on my frame. Now I've built the muscle mass that I have. and it's probably the most muscle mass I've ever had. I want to trim back the body fat to see what my shoulders look like, to see what my torso, my stomach definition, not necessarily abs, but whether to see what... ⁓ what that looks like in terms of how sculpted it is, guess is the best way to put it. But because I've not been there before with this amount of muscle mass, I don't actually know what my physique looks like. I have an idea in my head of where I want that to be, but without going there, I don't know really where that physique's at for me. Yeah, it's taking you to a place where you haven't been before again and just trying to go further than where you've got to last time. for those that have lost more body fat than they've ever done before in a fat loss phase, you'll know that your body looks very different and things start to reveal themselves a bit more. Those sharp edges to certain muscles, those clear... distinctions between one muscle to another muscle and you start to see more of that with more clarity when you lose more body fat. When we talk about definition, that's what we mean. It's those differences between the different muscles that you can visibly see. It's the firmer, the harder look rather than something that looks a little bit softer and a little bit more fleshy. And it's not to everyone's liking. It's not to everyone's taste. Not everyone enjoys that aesthetic. but some of us do enjoy that aesthetic. Some of us do like that aesthetic or at least want to see what it looks like on us to see if we do like it, because you're not going to know unless you've ever tried it. You're not going to know unless you've ever achieved it. If it's something that you look at on others and think that looks really good on that person, I wonder what that looked like on me. Then your best way to figure that out is to go and try it. But if you clearly don't like that look on others, then it doesn't make sense for you to want to try and get there yourself either. There's no point aspiring to look a certain way if you're not inspired to look that way in the first place. Yeah, I agree fully. I agree fully because it's a journey and it's an investment and it's a, you know, a couple of years investment if no longer to really change your physique in that way. I think if you haven't got a strong desire to physique or look what you really want for yourself, then it's going to be really hard to... put your effort into that continuously. And for me, I've lived that healthy lifestyle for a long, time now and I get lots of awards of return from it. But that didn't lead to the physique that I really wanted to achieve. So why I'm doing this now, why I wanna strip back my body fat is to see if I am getting closer to that, to see if that shape, the muscular on my body frame is there and other people can do it. So there's gotta be a way to do it, right? And I wanna see if I can do it, see if I'm capable of that, see if I can achieve that rather than wondering if it's ever a possibility or just letting it be something I want without acting on. What about yourself, Sean? What is it that you like about the bodybuilding look? Maybe not frame the question like that. at what I've written down as the fifth bullet point. Yeah I don't know where to take it, I'm sorry. Are there any other motivating points for you Sean? Like is there anything else motivating you to do this? You mentioned about the look that you, you know, like more of a bodybuilding-esque sort of look. What sort of other motivation, do you have any other motivation for doing it? It's a bit strange that you're saying that you're indifferent and not as excited by it this time around, Sean. So what else is motivating you to want to do it? Why would you choose to do it if like, again, Katie, there's so many different ways to ask this question. I shouldn't be having to teach you to do this as we go through the podcast. Something I'd like to ask you Sean is you mentioned that you're a bit indifferent about going into this fat loss cycle of yours. So if you're a bit indifferent about perhaps the results you're going to achieve by the end of this, what else motivates you to do this? Yeah it's a great question. There's actually a number of different points I think that are motivating me to do it this year. Firstly I want to do it alongside you. I feel like environment is absolutely crucial and I think it plays a massive part ⁓ knowing that you're going into this and you're so excited and you're pushing for a result you've never achieved before. I see no need for me not to do it at the same time. I'm going to have to do a fat loss phase at some point this year anyway most likely because if I want to have a leaner look all year round which I enjoy then at some point in this year I'm going to gain more fat from building muscle. I'm going to have to and do a leaning down phase anyway. So I may as well just get it done now to align with you and your goals where you've chosen to do this at this time of year. So there's that. That's a big motivating factor. I think another reason for it is we recently just run our sculpted intake for before the summer. And I like the thought of doing it at roughly the same time as the members in the community and the clients that I'm coaching. I feel like I have much more of an understanding and appreciation for what they're going through. And I also feel like it's good to lead the example with that and lead the way through that. Yeah, it just helps with the relatability aspect. You can't always align your goals with somebody else's because life doesn't work that way and you've got different priorities at different times. But it can work out well for me this year to be able to do it at this time of year prior to going into the summer, dealing with the run up to the summer, social events. where they're getting better, barbecues, all that sort of stuff. yeah, I think that there's an element of that. I think even if you can't align it perfectly to clients, because that's unrealistic, right? And there's so many different approaches that can be followed to achieve a particular result. And you work with the individual in front of you. Do you find that it's actually helpful just to do them now and again, the different approaches so that you're fresh in your mind in how they run some of the challenges that people face? You also come up with new ideas and ways to run things yourself. which can refresh that kind of thought process if you haven't done it for a long time. Yeah, absolutely. I think so many coaches are just completely disconnected with the people they're actually coaching. They've had those experiences either so long ago or they're not exposing themselves to that space anymore. They're basically just coaching the same stuff on repeat over and over over again. Because they've done a good job of learning some of the stuff, they will just be able to reiterate it. go over the same information over and over again. But to me, like my personal opinion is that there is nothing that can replace your real life experience of something. And if you're not doing something that is similar to what your clients are experiencing, then it's really hard to relate to how they're experiencing. It's really hard to relate to how they're feeling and what experiences they have when they're going through that process. I also feel like you get more buying from people that you work with and people that you're influencing online in an online space because let's be honest that's what that's what we're doing we're not influencers but we are having an influence on people's lives on people's decisions when it comes to health and fitness as coaches i'm very aware that we're in the public space and we we do have that responsibility. ⁓ And we do have that presence and influence in that space. People will look at what we're doing for inspiration and try and copy what we do. yeah, I feel like walking the walk and I feel like showing that I'm just as willing to continue progressing with my goals and my targets as the members that I'm coaching is really important. I like to think of myself as a leader by example, not just a leader that says, just do as I tell you to do. And similarly to that point, I also really enjoy a challenge. also really enjoy within reason, I'm selective over what challenges I put myself through because I like to do a good job and I like to make sure I give it my time and attention and dedicate myself to it fully. But yeah, I do enjoy that challenge. do enjoy an aggressive diet takes discipline. It takes consistency. It takes commitment. This is by no means the try and make it up to be harder for me than anyone else or anything like that but it does get these aggressive diets or any fat loss face does get really hard the leaner you get it does get really really challenging your energy levels are super low you get a lot of pushback from your body's natural mechanisms which tell you not to keep losing more body fat because your body always wants to maintain an essential level of body fat and the closer you get to to that sort of level the more pushback you will start to get from your body terms of your hunger signal in terms of your energy levels in terms of your body naturally want to move less and this and the other. So yeah it does get harder as you get leaner and I certainly found that the last time I did this I was closer to that stage where was like okay it's getting really hard now like it doesn't matter how much discipline willpower commitments I've got like my body is telling me put some more fat on please boy you're getting a little bit too thin for me now. I want to try and make sure that, so I am embracing that as a challenge as well. That's my challenge to overcome. It's like when people sign up for a half marathon or a marathon, high rocks competition, if you will choose to do a fast for a certain period of time, like for me, this aggressive diet is my discipline challenge and my commitment challenge. And it makes me appreciate other parts of the journey a lot more that follow. when I've had this experience like this. It's your idea of a competition, right? A tournament or an event that you're working towards. This is your challenge. And I think it's a nice way to look at it. And that's how I try to look at it as well. That when you're in the moment, you're in those hard times where you are maybe really hungry or perhaps your energy's a little bit lower or perhaps there's temptation around, that is part of the game. It's part of the challenge that you need to overcome. Like if you were doing a high rocks for example and you're on your, I don't know how many burpee and you're like, I've just got to push through this now. There's no going, I'm just going to have a rest for a couple of days. You've got to do it then and then. Same with the marathon. There's no real stopping if you want to finish it and complete it. You've just got to keep taking it along, keep going. And it's the same when you go into a fat loss phase. If you can have a mentality of, and this will work well for people who are a little bit maybe more competitive, but. seeing it as that challenge so that when, you know, a moment of weakness or challenge or a hard point comes in, you can mentally tell yourself, okay, it is hard, but it's okay that it's hard because there are going to be hard parts of this journey. What am I going to do to overcome this particular hard part now? Because that hard part won't last forever, just a moment in time. Yeah, absolutely, Katie, I agree with you. For me, there is no reward without sacrifice. And whilst that may be bit cliched, everyone thinks of the reward as in the trophy they win, the medal they win, the end result. But I don't just think it's the physical stuff, or it's the stuff that you can visibly see that comes at the end of it. I think it's also those mental barriers you overcome, those hurdles that you overcome. The reward is in the work that you do. The reward is in the process. The reward is in those times where you say no, where you didn't want, where you wanted to give in. where you wanted to quit and you didn't. The reward is knowing that those sacrifices have all contributed towards this outcome. the person that you become along the way and the decisions you make to get there. So yeah, when I look at any challenge like that, I consider that to be a huge part of it. because you reflect on those sacrifices. I think that's something that a lot of very successful athletes, sports persons will also share as well. They reflect upon the times they spent away from their family, the times that they didn't go out with their mates drinking on the weekend, the times that they... that they had to spend numerous hours doing rehab protocols to get themselves back to fitness for a very particular timeframe or in a very particular timeframe. That's where the athletes really built their character, their discipline, their willpower, whatever you want to call it. That's where the athlete was built. Not just from competition day, not just from the result they had. It's the journey that got them to that place. We all think of the obvious stuff, don't we, when it comes to sacrifice? We all think of the stuff that you see of the hours you put in in the gym. It's the things that you do with your diet. But there's a lot of other sacrifices which happen. There's a lot of other... are the things which go on in the background. that we don't often hear about, like things that will go on behind the closed doors with certain relationships, how you manage your emotions, how you manage your stress levels, even just simple things like what time you decide to go to bed religiously every single night, what time you decide to get yourself up in the morning, where you choose to park your car when you're going ⁓ out for the day. So you can walk and get extra steps in all these small decisions, they go overlooked, but they are choices, they're decisions, they're sacrifices, which can all contribute and lead towards the result that you really want to achieve. And the bigger picture, right? And without those so-called small parts, which are not small parts, there are choices that are feeding into your bigger picture. Without those choices being consciously made on a regular basis, that podium result doesn't come. And it's important to recognize those along the journey and understand that those smaller choices on a daily basis are what allows individuals to get the true result that they want. I know from experience that when I've coached clients that have been successful at fat loss phases, and particularly these aggressive fat loss phases, when they reflect on them afterwards and they finish them, The visible results look really impressive and they're really pleased with those. course, they're absolutely buzzing at the fact that they're leaner than they've ever been before or they've got down to their best physique just before they go on holiday or they've got a wedding or something and they look and feel fantastic in their outfit, their dress, their suit going into that wedding. That's amazing and I really like that. But one of the things which really stands out to me when they reflect on that process. is the sacrifice, it's the discipline, it's the commitment that they had. A lot of them say, I had no idea that I could be this disciplined. I had no idea that I could be this consistent. I've never been this consistent before in my life. Did I actually do that? And you're like, yeah, yeah, you did. It's the pride in that. It's the pride in that because it's framed as this really bad thing. It's framed as this really restrictive or really obsessive behavior trait, being disciplined. It's absolutely not. It's something that you can turn on or turn off. You can dial up, you can dial down. You don't always have to be going about life robotically disciplined, saying no to absolutely everything, having no fun, having no experiences or memories. Like that's a completely false narrative. You can have a bit of both and there might be certain stages and certain times where you decide to put a little bit more priority into it rather than other stuff. But a lot of people write themselves off and being able to get the results they truly want to achieve. they truly want to experience because they tell themselves that they're incapable, they tell themselves that they're not capable of being more disciplined, they tell themselves that they're inconsistent, they tell themselves they're not committed. Well, there's only one way to overcome that mental barrier and that mental limitation that you're putting on yourself. You find an approach that allows you to be more disciplined, allows you to be more consistent, allows you to be more committed to it. Often it takes a little bit of support. Often it takes enhanced structures and guidance and a little bit more of a frequent routine and a pattern to follow. Being in the right environment, surrounded by people that have already achieved that or, you know, being guided by a mentor or a coach that has achieved that, that can help you and help others. The more personalized it is, the easier it gets, right? But the point is these people prove themselves capable of something which they didn't think they were capable of before. Now that for me is a reward that goes far beyond just a physical result. Well said sir. Well said. I don't even want to add to that and potentially butcher what you just said because it was spot on. Absolutely spot on. And look, if you're listening to my very passionate segment about surpassing your own expectations and achieving things you never thought you were capable of before, and you're inspired by that and you want to act upon it, now's your chance. Head to the description of the podcast. You can find us on our social media pages. There'll also be a link in the description. If you want to drop us an inquiry, perhaps you're not on social media. Perhaps you don't want to chat on social media, whatever it may be. I was going to scrap the inquiry form because you said not to do it earlier. Oh, for this. How can someone contact us if they're not on Instagram? Okay, cool. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. It's not just people listening on Instagram listening to this, it? No, you're right. Okay, I'll start that again. Yeah. Or you can head to the... In the description you'll find a link to an inquiry form. Just in case you're not on Instagram for any reason or you would just prefer to fill in an inquiry form and have a chat to one of us, we'll pop that link in the description. No commitments, just simple inquiry form to inquire a little bit more about how we maybe will help you with the goals that you want to achieve. As you know, our Instagram... As we mentioned earlier, our Instagram... or can reach out to us on Instagram, drop us a message and we can chat in person on there. Remember that fat loss doesn't have to be slow. It's not harmful for it to go faster. In fact, going slower for a lot of people can lead to more problems. I don't know if I need the segment. No, I think we need the segment. I don't think we exactly need that. Yeah, so the end of the next part, generally, we go to a general overview. Yeah, I don't think we need this next section. We'll just move on from there. No, think the general view is good. No, I've lost it now. I didn't lead into that CTA in the way that I expected to lead into it because I didn't expect to have that big conversation before we went into it and then it was natural for it to come off the back of that but I haven't made it like that that bit before I don't know if that's emotional enough for them to... But we do it again at the end we drop it a few times so don't panic so we've just ended it now you said or you can head over to Instagram and chat with us. Okay. Let's talk about your goals. Let's talk about what you want to achieve. Let's talk about the timeframe that you want to achieve it in. We can personalize everything within our coaching for you individually. down to every exercise you perform in the gym, down to how you're going to manage your different calories around certain events you have in your week. down to how many steps you need to do every day, what to choose within your meal structure. All of it can be heavily personalized to suit you and your circumstances. Now this is a quick fix, but it certainly will be quick results. So if you're interested to find out more, pause the podcast, go to the description, in that inquiry form or drop one of us a message. and let's chat about what we can do to help you. Look forward to chatting to you. Let's have little chat about the general kind of plan overview for how we're going to structure our aggressive dieting phases. So we're going to aim for three week cycles at a time, aren't we Sean? Yep, three weeks on and then after those three weeks we will either have a break or a refeed. Before we chat about... You didn't structure that sentence very well at all. ⁓ okay. Sorry. That's fine. Why do you say you're doing it, Shaun? What am I supposed to say? Carry on, exactly like you just did. It was fine. God, I'm really struggling doing this with you today. It was absolutely fine. You just needed to let me speak back. That's it. Okay. So yeah, just gotta go. Yep. No, okay. Let's have a chat about the general overview of how we're going to structure our aggressive diet phases. Because again, these can be quite flexible depending on what you've got going on, how long you like to stay in an aggressive diet phase, but we're just going to chat about how we're going to approach the next six to 10 weeks. So Sean, can you share with... Just do it yourself, babe, I don't want to it. So as a brief overview, we will be spending three weeks at a time in the aggressive diet phase. We will then split those up with either a refeed, which is over two to three days, or a diet break. We plan to do two to three AD cycles in total. And when it comes to these 80 cycles, we'll be calculating our calories very carefully to make sure that we're setting them as low as possible, but without losing muscle mass in the process. Both of us want to have a leaner but more muscular physique when we come to the end of this. We want to see that muscle definition. We want to see our shape. So we don't necessarily want to risk losing muscle that we've spent so hard to build over the last few months. So. Our calories will only be as low as it is sensible to be because we want to protect our muscle mass as much as possible. And this is something in which a lot of people get wrong when they go into aggressive diets. Their training standards or training frequency drops. They don't eat enough protein. They're not sleeping very well and they drop their calories way too low. And as a result of all those things combined, they end up losing much more muscle mass than what they should do. And trust us, trust us when we say this, it shows. It shows a lot in your end goal physique. I think they're real important points that you raise there, Sean. And I think there's one on top of that as well. And that is the frequency. I'm sorry, not the frequency, the length of time someone spends in an aggressive diet. ⁓ yeah, that's vitally important. You know, it's not just the fact that, yes, protein is important. Yes, sleep is important. Yes, gaining calories is important. Yes, consistently training throughout it is very important. But you also don't want to be spending too many weeks back to back in an aggressive diet without having some form of diabric or refeed. Yeah, we're setting this up very specifically to do it in the most healthy way possible and in the way that is most productive for the aesthetic and the results that we want. So that's keeping all the muscle or as much of it as possible and having less body fat. And most of the people we work with tend to follow that pattern as well. They don't want to lose their muscle. You shouldn't want to your muscle, right? We've spoken a great length about how beneficial having more muscle is for your health, for your longevity, for your function. It's a no-brainer to want to keep hold of that muscle, whether you've got a lot of it or not. You want to keep what you've got. So Katie mentioned the diet breaks and the refeed. Let's talk about those diet breaks. ⁓ When do we have those and kind of what strategies will you follow when it comes to those break periods in between? question. I'm probably going to use both a refeed and a diet break strategy throughout my three cycles. I plan to do a refeed after the first AD cycle. So after three weeks, I plan to go into a three day refeed. Yeah, I'm going explain what they are. I'll touch upon the structure of it is wrong, but you need to start by explaining what they are before you then because people aren't going to follow. Okay, cool. It's just yeah. Okay, because you asked me three things in one question. So I've gone to the end. God. This is failing massively today. It's not. not Sean. We're an hour in. Sean, we're here now. So we've got to carry it on. You know, when you asked me a question with three points, find it hard. I know. I I try and give you everything that you need to answer because otherwise I forget what you said. start again. It's fine I can answer it now you know what you No let me start again please. Yes I do. Katie, mentioned about doing refeeds and diet breaks. Firstly, what are refeeds and diet breaks? So there's a psychological and a physiological benefit to diet breaks and refeeds, which break down the differences in the moment. This is a question we get all the time, especially deciding which one to do, whether you do a refeed or whether you do a diet break. Both are there to break up your aggressive diet in cycles. They're there to replenish your body. They're there to take you away from lower calories, give you exposure to higher calories again, help you to feel more energized, to feel fuller, and to protect the muscle mass that you've got, right? So you don't want to keep being in an aggressive diet cycle for too long. When it comes to the difference of them both, I like to look at it as A refeed is more of a physiological break and a diet break is a physiological break but also a psychological break from dieting because a refeed is very planned and strategic. A refeed is very planned and strategic. strategic. Whereas a diet break is, I want to say a little bit easier to manage. There's not quite such stringent rules with it. More flexible is what comes to mind for me. Yeah, that's probably the best way to put it actually. That's probably the best way to put it. It's still planned and it's still a refeed, a diet break is still strategic, but a refeed is much more, I want to go as far as to say restrictive because of how targeted that refeed is. Whereas a diet break is a little bit more adaptable around everything that you've got going on over that week. That's how I would differentiate between the two. So let's explain the length of those two phases and maybe share the reason why you would choose one over the other. So a break, we start with a diet break, right? That could be anywhere from a week up to three or four weeks. could be as long as you want, really. I would just say anything past four weeks you're going into. You're going into more than a break from a diet then, right? It's going... Well, that's almost a maintenance phase by that stage. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, I would say so. We don't need to get too bogged down in the terminology, do we? But if your diet breaks like two or three months long, then it's no longer a diet break. You're not on a diet. Yeah, it's no longer break. You're right. It's just a period away from dieting. That's what it would be. So you don't need to get too caught up in there and you can, you know... manipulate the time frame based on what you've got going on in life at that time. But yeah, that it's a long guy. So it's around a week, could be a couple of days less than a week as well. But again, let's not get caught up in the exact numbers. Just know that it can be a fairly adaptable time frame that you can do a diet break for. What about like calories and macros in that week? So calories in a diet break week, you're looking around at maintenance calories. just going to go straight back up to your maintenance calories and you're going to hover around there for that week, that time period that you're on your diet break. Your protein doesn't change, that stays the same. Your carbs, you do want those to go up. You want to have more carbs in your diet during a diet break. That's what's going to help you refuel the glycogen stores in your muscles, right? Which is what we really want to do in these diet breaks and refeeds. Fats then. doesn't matter too much, to be honest. It won't change an awful lot. Maybe a little bit more than what you've had in, especially if you're on an aggressive diet, it'll be more than what you've had in that period. Naturally goes up a little bit, doesn't it? But I don't think you need to be too worried about targeting how much you increase your carbs and fats by. My recommendation is always, in a diet break, try and increase your carbs as much as you can. But a lot of the meal choices that people will make will... lend to having a bit more fat in those weeks as well. And when you've got more calories to play with, you want to get yourself back to maintenance calories, then it makes sense to have some of the things which are more enjoyable and a lot of them do have a bit of fat in them. So I think naturally you just end up eating a little bit more fat with having more of the things you have kind of cut out in an aggressive diet anyway. But it's important to get carbohydrates in and have as part of your diet, which again, naturally when you go back. to a more normal portion size for your meal, you tend to have carbs and add the back in, right? But like you mentioned, Sean, it's more adaptable, it's more flexible with what you can do with the calories and macros that you have available. For sure. And then the refeeds are a three day period. These are much higher calories. They are very high carbohydrates and they are low fats. The reason for that is we're looking to temporarily refuel and replenish as much as possible. So we're looking to really fill those glycogen stores to provide you with much more energy to kind of mitigate some of the muscle depletion and some of the muscle breakdown effects. trying to mitigate some of the potential muscle loss that you may get. And it just sets you up to feel much more energized, replenished, and ready to go again on your next block of aggressive dieting. The reason for low fats is quite interesting. So this is based on the theory that This is based on the theory that your body tends to store nutrients in the form that it takes them in primarily. So what we mean by this is that if you're eating really high amounts of carbohydrates, your body doesn't necessarily turn those carbs into fats to then store them as fats because that's a really inefficient process. The majority of the time, your body will just store the fats. So any... extra calories you have above maintenance that come from fat sources will be used as stored fat and your body will store the carbs as stored glycogen converting the carbs that you have in your diet to fats to then store them it's costly and inefficient for your body to do. So, now we don't want anyone to listen to this and read into that too much because the thing that determines whether you gain or lose fat is your energy balance. So that's calories in versus calories out. We have seen people losing weight equally or pretty much equally as effectively on very high carb diets. or very low carb diets. We've seen pretty much equal rates of fat loss on both low carb and low fat diets. So there's not really a major difference to have in them. But for the purpose of doing a three day refeed in the middle of an aggressive dieting phase, if we're limiting the amount of fats in the body that could potentially be stored and then we're putting the calories up into surplus, what this means is there's less short-term body fat storage because they're simply just not the fats provided with the body, not the fats provided to be able to store fat in the short term. So just a common sense perspective, if we're trying to lose as much body fat as possible, it makes sense to not gain fat in the short periods of time where we're having a break from the deficit periods. If you're doing a diet break, you eat at maintenance, so shouldn't be gaining fat when you're eating at maintenance. If you're doing a refeed then you've got much more calories so in under normal circumstances you would be risking gaining fat but because we're keeping the fat so low this really reduces the amount of fat storage you get to the point where you may not even saw any fat at all. I think you're spot on with everything you explained and I think you explained that really well, Sean. I think it's just letting people know who are listening that a refeed, I don't know, I think you might have mentioned it, I'm not 100 % sure. Refeed days, you're eating in a large, large surplus. And I think it's important just to understand that while you're listening to Sean's explanation. Because the... The surplus calories, we want to be in surplus because we want to replenish our body. We want to replenish our glycogen stores. So to be able to do that in a short period, we need to be in that surplus to allow our body to get enough glycogeno carbohydrates that it needs to replenish. But as we know, we eat in a calorie surplus, then we are risking ourselves of putting on body fat. Because our bodies want to be clever and they don't want to go through the process of turning carbs to fats to store, they will store them as carbohydrates so that we can utilize them then again in the future. That's why it's so important to keep the fats really low because if we're eating in a surplus and we're eating lots of fats, it's likely that the fats that we are eating then whilst we're in that surplus will get stored as body fat which is counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve. Yep, if we were to continue eating that way over a number of weeks rather than just three day periods, then eventually the body's gonna catch on to that and it will start converting those carb stores to fats and storing them as fats. or you may potentially end up being a bit ill. But because there's probably some nutrients in the body we'll be missing by eating that way forever. And let's be real, it's really difficult to eat that way with that low fat and that high carb without actually planning it to the letter. So it's unlikely that you'd even be able to do that long term anyway. Yeah, just to be clear, we're talking hundreds and hundreds of grams of carbohydrates here. potentially thousands of calories worth of carbohydrates every single day. But remember that we're keeping fats very low. So think of the carbohydrate sources that typically are lowering fat. It's things like jams, it'd be things like fruit juices, it'd be things like very, very... ⁓ low fat cereal, sweets. It's not stuff that you can typically in very large quantities on its own without feeling. like all you're eating is sugar and sweet stuff. It can get very, very, very repetitive. It's almost like the opposite to what you would expect when it comes to a fat loss phase. ⁓ I personally find those refeeds are harder than anything else. I find that they're harder than the aggressive diet phase. I don't think there's anything I do in my diet that's as challenging as doing those refeeds. And a lot of our members have shared that as well. When they've done the aggressive diets, they opted for refeed days. The feedback that we've got so far is the refeed days are the hardest part of the whole process to the point where they've asked, can I not do the refeeds and just do diet breaks moving forwards? Yeah, I agree fully. You're weighing up the time scale on you. You've three day refeeds that's very strategic, that's quite restrictive that you need to eat a very specific diet for, or you can have a week at maintenance where there's a lot more room for flexibility. It's a little bit more adaptable around your circumstances, but of course you don't get back to the diet again quite so quickly, because you're doing a week as opposed to three days. So you're extending the amount of time that you're going to be in your kind of aggressive diet phase four, if that makes sense. So it's a trade off. It is, do you want quicker results or do you want to more flexibility? It's always your choice what you want to do based on your timeline, what works well for you because there's no point forcing yourself to do a refeed if you're not going to do it properly and also if it's going to be more of a stress for you. So what will you be doing, Katie? Ooh, good question. So I'm actually going to opt for a three day refeed after my first cycle. But after my second cycle, I'm going to, I think I'm going to go into a diet break. It's my birthday in June, right? And I don't think I want to be doing a refeed during those days. I like chocolate too much. And if I... If I can't enjoy a bit of what I like around my birthday, then I think I'd be a little bit sad. I think I'd want to be able to have some of my food, have a bit of dessert. Because by that point, would have already been in a, would have done two fat loss phases by that point, right? So it's not like it's early on in the phase. So I'm timing mine around that, to be honest. I would like to then, I think, take a diet break because I think psychologically, by that point, I'll be ready for. a little bit more flexibility with the food choices. And that's where I'm at. Who knows? I may change my mind and go, do you know what? I'm gonna do one day at maintenance and the rest I'm gonna do in a refeed day. Who knows? That's where I'm at at the moment. I'm thinking I'll be able to handle psychologically a refeed after first cycle, but maybe not after the second. That's me personally. What about you, Sean? So I will be doing the refeed for the first block exactly same as you, but on the second block, I think that's where we might part ways. So we'll be perfectly aligned with when we're in the aggressive diet, when we're having our breaks. But yeah, that second block, I think that there is a very strong chance that I will probably do a maintenance day for your birthday or around your birthday. If we've got family stuff on, I can't do the refeeds with any sort of meal out. any sort of family event. It just doesn't work. The amount of carbohydrates I have to eat and how low my fats have to be, there's no chance of me being able to eat out anywhere. And there's probably very little chance of me beyond be able to eat a normal family meal just because the fat. To put into context for those listening, my last refeeds were, I think they were around 4,500 odd calories per day, 4,600 calories per day, but it was like 700 grams of carbohydrates or more with I can't remember the amount of fat I want to say it was like 60 grams of fats. I can be wrong. It may even be less. Yeah. ⁓ Just try and put your meals together like have a go at it if you want if you've got a calorie tracker just try and make a day of eating where you can get 700 odd grams of carbs as well as making sure I'm hitting all my protein intake as well as making sure I've got my fiber. ⁓ It's just chaos. so hard to do. yeah, I will on the second block, I'm probably going to do this is what I'm thinking at the moment, two days of refeeding, two days of maintenance. Because obviously, if I don't do that third day of refeed, there's a lot of carbs that I'll be missing out on. But if I spread those carbs across two days of maintenance calories, I should hopefully be able to get the same effect of the replenishment. So yeah. Three day refeed, then second block will be two days of refeed followed by two days of maintenance. I am going to hold back my opinion and thought on that until I am two cycles into AD and see how I feel. We won't be sharing any of your chocolate with me so I don't really need to worry about that. No. And chances are I probably won't get much of the desserts on offer either. But there's also a big question mark over whether you even need to do a third cycle AD at the moment isn't there. You don't know if you're 100 % needing of going into a third cycle this time around so you may even be. switching back to your build by then anyway. That's a very good point, in which case I won't need to do a refeed for the second time, or maintenance, and I only need to do the one block. But that's something that I'll have to decide as the next couple of weeks take shape now. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Time will tell. And it's just having the tools available to know which one to use at the right time for you. Speaking of tools, do you have any sort of more objective targets in mind? So obviously you spoke about the visuals that you'd like to achieve and the aesthetic look that you'd like to have from this, Katie, but do you track anything else alongside this? I do track my skin folds. Obviously I track my scale weight as well, but that's more to make sure things are going in right direction. There's no end target on that? No, it's not. It'll be where it'll be as long as I've got the physique that looks the way I want it to look. It doesn't matter what that number on the scale says to me. I agree. I really couldn't care less about setting a weight target. It just doesn't mean anything. No, it doesn't. think anyone can free themselves from that weight target will enjoy the journey a lot more. Of course, it's ⁓ target to look at to know if you're going in the right direction and you're achieving what you want to achieve. It's a trackable, it's a trackable metric. I fully agree you should track that the whole way through. But as you mentioned, Katie, it's assessing the trend. Like a set end point to say, right, I must get to this particular body weight, regardless of how you look doesn't make any sense. It should. you should finish your fat loss phase where you're happy with the look that you've achieved and whatever weight that ends up being is whatever weight that ends up being. Agree fully. I think for me, I like doing skin fold measurements, not the end body fat calculation that comes from skin folds, just the skin fold measurements themselves. So how do you get the skin fold measurements? What are those? So you use a tool called calipers. and you effectively roll, this doesn't sound very nice, but you roll your fat in specific areas, sitting there on your back, hips, ⁓ bicep and triceps are the ones ⁓ that I use and I use a less conventional one where I do a skin pull on my underneath my belly button. I like to track that one because I do carry body fat in that area and I just, the calipers then will give you a specific number. And I track that number. And I'm looking for that total overall to go down throughout my fat loss phases. Which it should do if you're losing body fat. Do you have a target for what you would like your skin folds to be this time round? I do. So we did these before we went on holiday, September last year, and I think that was the lowest total sum of skin folds that you had, I believe so and I think that was around total skin folds of 28, which was just for on holiday last year. I'm around about, I haven't taken my skin folds now for about two months, so I'll need to them again before I go into ⁓ this aggressive diet. They were around about 30 a couple of months ago. So I've expected them to go up. a teeny bit now ⁓ by the start of this AD. Hopefully they haven't gone up drastically and they're still in the early 30s. I don't feel like they should have gone up drastically based on how I'm feeling in myself. So I would like to get that under 28. I don't want to put an exact figure on that because I can't really. I don't know, but I would like to get under a total skin folds of 28. Makes sense. I think mine were 15 when we went away last year. So I'll be aiming to get back to 15 again. And if I can go below it, then great. Amazing. I think I should be able to get there in two cycles, but we'll see. Yeah, I think you'll get there in two cycles for sure. I think you will. I might be close to getting to 20 if not under two cycles too. but I think I want to do that third cycle to push it past that. That's my prediction at the moment. How much is that going to kill you if you have to do a third cycle and I'm free? Yeah, that will be challenging, but I know you support me with it and be that kind of extra layer of accountability, give me that BDI. You won't give me a necessary temptation. So I do feel I'm equipped in the environment I'm in to have that support and desire. I will find it hard when you're having more food than me. Um, because naturally you can't remove all temptation from me. Otherwise you would be beaten and that's not right. Um, but it'd be a challenge. think it'd be a challenge I want to take on because it's something that's, it's all for me, but that'll be literally just me going through the motions at that time. Um, and if I can do that, feel damn good about it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We'll come back to that later on. Cause I think that's a really good point you guys there. support. KT is rocking in the corner because. Sure was just sabotaging her left, and centre. She's had to move out. So, training then. Obviously we'll continue to train throughout the aggressive diet. which is a non-negotiable, it's an absolute must. If you wanna retain your muscle mass, you need to be doing your weights training while you do an aggressive diet phase. But what adjustments will we be making to training? I the biggest adjustment that anyone can accept is a... Mental adjustment and it is accepting that this period isn't going to be as progressive with your training as when you're outside of fat loss. It's a period where the main aim is to lose body fat and just hold on to as much muscle as you can. There may be certain scenarios people might build a little but that's not the main aim. So it's going into it mentally going. I'm ticking the boxes with my training and bringing the quality and bringing still a good intensity to my training so that I set myself up to be in a good position at the end of this fat loss phase. We won't be expecting to gain any muscle at all in this. We won't definitely not. Not at our experience levels. You can probably get away with it a little bit more. If you're a beginner, you might strike lucky and build some muscle even during an aggressive diet phase. We have seen members strength go up in an aggressive diet phase, which is always, always fascinating. It's likely that the strength is going up because new muscle is being built. It's unlikely that this muscle... It's unlikely that the strength is going up because new muscle is being built. However, you can sometimes see strength increases. And that's a big win because if you can come out of the back of your fat loss phase stronger than where you started, well... When you go into your muscle building phase and you're already lifting more weights than you should be able to build muscle, at least at a slightly faster rate to start off with. So that's a big win, but we certainly don't set the expectation that you should be building muscle or strength. If it happens, it happens and it's great, but you're mainly looking to retain what you've already got. I guess an important mental switch. What about the structure of your training Katie? Anything different with that going into the fat loss phase? There may be certain sets that are of volume, we've set for the slightly lower, particularly perhaps sets where I've got more of them at the moment to try and push growth in a particular area. I might not need quite as much volume in those areas during the aggressive cycle because perhaps that's effort really. What about you, Sean? Did you discuss volume then? What about the other stuff before that? That's what I come to my mind. We just go through the list. That's why I'm so confused. Yeah, I've been pushing the volume for a number of muscle groups quite hard over the last couple of weeks, like, well, hard for what I'm able to do in the time that I'm able to spend in the gym. I think I'm just going to adapt it as I go. I'm not going to push my volume to the max limits because I'm not going to get any muscle growth from pushing to those high volumes. You can maintain muscle mass on much less volume than what you sometimes need to muscle as maximally as possible. So I think I'm just going to adapt it. I'm going to try and maintain as much as I can because I feel like that habit and the consistency of doing that will stand me in good stead for going back to higher volumes when I come out of it. But I do feel like the last time I did my aggressive diet. I pushed myself a bit too much in the aggressive diet phase because I did want to see what my limits were. And I think it was important to note that for future experience. I wanted to really give it my all in my training so I could see what the impact of that was. The impact basically was that I just ended up being a little bit worse recovered. I was a little bit more hungry and I found the process to be a little bit more mentally challenging going to the gym in that state. I got back to training really well afterwards. I went back to my balance build phase after it, having already pushed through really intense, harder sessions in my fat loss phase, the balance build sessions felt amazing, like really, really good. So when I was back building again, it paid off. But during the fat loss phase, it was a bit more of a grind than what I'd done previously. And I think there's a balance in the middle of that somewhere, which I think I'm going to try and find this time round. I'm going to be more adaptable. I think that's the point, isn't it? There's no hard or fast rule to you must do less of this. You must keep grinding really hard in every session. think it's it's been adaptable and seeing how you respond as an individual and see how it goes. That doesn't mean training like an absolute wet flannel mind. That doesn't mean going in and just doing like a few reps of each exercise. All that will do off I go. You still need to train with some intensity. You probably still want to be taking your sets reasonably close to failure. but just maybe not zero RIR more of time. Yeah, at this stage is more about maintaining the habit. I think the habits that you put in place to build muscle, we would encourage you to continue with those habits as much as you can when you're doing your fat loss phase, just because you're primed to get back into those habits. Well, you don't lose those habits when it comes to getting out of the fat loss phase. This is all, as you'll know, it's all with the... view of getting out of the fat loss state in the best possible position to then be able to get back into building and doing what you need to do in the building phase. Like if we're not training with intensity, it's going to be a real shock to the system when you come back out and go into that. If we lose muscle mass, you're going to get much weaker. That's not going to help you. So it's all about trying to set yourself up for the future as well. So this is one of those things where, okay, there may not be much muscle building or strength building benefit to training. close to failure when you're in a deficit. We still would recommend doing so for the habits and the routine and the consistency of doing that. And also keeping your lifting stats as close to what you're doing in your building phase as possible as well. Just don't go to failure on every set. No, you don't need to. That's the idea is that you don't need to push that hard when you're in an aggressive diet. But it's keeping up with your habits and with your rep to rep performance because that's going to save you well in the long run. I will be removing some intensity from the sessions overall just because of the diminished recovery capacity and the fatigue that comes with it. So for example, in my last few months of training, I've been doing things like drop sets, mechanical drop sets. I've been getting you to assist some reps to take me beyond failure for certain exercises. I won't be doing those in my fat loss phase. Those intensification methods and those ways of adding a little bit more onto your workouts, they're not gonna be any benefit. they'll be gone. And I will probably remove some very high intensity movements just temporarily ⁓ where I might select some movement patterns for the same muscle that are a little bit less fatiguing for the rest of the session and for the rest of my training week. And again, that's quite adaptable as well, down to that individual and what you dislike and what you want to carry on. Because I do find surprisingly, actually, with these aggressive diet cycles, yes, some movements you'll see will get a little bit weaker, but it's not a given across board. It's really not. And actually a lot of clients have kept strength if not built some strength in certain movements across the three week period. So training doesn't always take as much of a hit as a moderate longer term deficit does. So it's very much a case of be adaptable, see how it goes. Yeah. What about things like cardio, Sean? Will you be doing that in your aggressive diet? I certainly won't be doing any intensive cardio. No, ⁓ not that I do much of that anyway nowadays, but I won't be doing anything wild. If I do any cardio, it'll just be some really light stuff on the bike. My calories will already be at the lowest limit that they can be at. So I don't need to burn more calories per day. ⁓ Again, the short durations mean that my metabolic rate won't drop too much. I don't have the makeup for that by doing extra cardio. The the intensive cardio would only lend to me Feeling more fatigued probably feeling more hungry probably moving less throughout the day as a result. I want all my energy to be used for The gym training as much as possible and getting the most out of that and then I want to be more consistent with my hunger levels and my energy levels throughout the rest of the day so no cardio just doesn't necessarily serve the purpose of doing an aggressive diet in my opinion. I agree, I agree and I choose to do the aggressive diet around an apple season to be honest because it's an absolute no-go if you're playing sport. It's yeah not recommended to do that. I think I need to go into much more depth than that. It's a no-go. I wouldn't be trying to perform well on an apple court on an aggressive diet in calories. So yeah, netball season has come to an end now, which leaves you this opportunity, this window of opportunity for you to be able to do an aggressive diet. It's not to say that you shouldn't do any cardio at all, but daily activity is certainly important. mean, we get a lot of steps in, we, Katie? Walking twice a day with a dog, walking back and forth to gym. So we do naturally have a high step count. But if you are going to do any cardio and aggressive diet, minimal is best and maybe just making sure that it's low intensity form of cardio. Maybe just short stints of it as well so you're not leaving yourself wiped or too hungry. Yeah. Because you're doing so well to create such a large calorie deficit through your nutrition. You don't really need that extra emphasis with the cardio element during an aggressive diet. know, improving your cardiovascular health can come when you're out of that cycle. Yeah, you're not going to be getting seem like you won't be building muscle when you're in a deficit. You're not going to be getting much positive adaptation for improving cardiovascular endurance. When you're in a deficit, you're very under fueled. You're very under. You're very under fueled and your recovery is going to be really poor. Therefore, it's probably not going to lend well to making improvements with cardiovascular endurance. Like that's a very broad statement now because for individuals that have no cardiovascular endurance, doing a little bit will obviously improve it. But it then could leave you in a position where, and we see this in research, Individuals that perform cardio first thing in the morning then tend to... move a little bit less throughout the day, their activity levels drop less throughout the day. So they think they're burning more calories in a short period by doing that cardio, but because their fatigue and their body then naturally starts to slow down throughout the day, they're going to find that they're going to end up burning less calories later on in the day, as opposed to somebody that, okay, they don't do their cardio in the morning. So they don't burn that calories in one small block, but they have higher sustained energy and daily activity throughout the rest of the day. So total daily energy expenditure can actually be spread out a bit more. And in some cases, individuals actually have lower total daily energy expenditure when they do cardio in the mornings compared to those that don't. So you don't necessarily need to do cardio in an aggressive diet is what we're saying there. Yes, yeah, for sure. It won't be a false part of my plan. No, not mine. Not mine. That's probably about it for training really, isn't it? I think so. I think so. One thing that I do encourage. And again, I'll be focusing on this myself, but having trained as long as I have done, I'm always mindful of technique anyway, in aggressive diet, it's a really good time to focus on your training technique. So if you really want to refine your performance of certain moving patterns, whilst it's harder to do that because you've got less energy, when you're not thinking about progressing so much with the load, when you're not thinking so much about giving maximum intensity, It actually lends itself quite well to being able to focus a little bit more on technique. And for some people, this can help you to be more engaged with your training. Because for me, I always find that when I'm in an aggressive diet, I know that my main goal in life is to build muscle and get stronger. I know that my main goal is to try and stimulate my muscles to grow as much as possible. And I know that I'm not doing that when I'm in an aggressive diet. I know that training has kind of lost its main purpose just by nature of the energy state that my body's in. So I'm kind of going to gym for some sessions and I'm like, well, what's the point in this training session? And I know it's to retain the muscle. I know it's to retain the muscle and strength, but that isn't enough of an incentive for me to really enjoy and engage in those sessions as much as I normally do when I'm building and I've got the nutrients. So one of the things that I focus on to me to kind of distract myself from that slightly negative mentality is I pay more attention to my technique. So if I can tweak certain things in certain lifts and improve my technique a little bit, it just gives me something to feel like I'm improving my lifting capabilities. And then when I go back to my building phases then, I might have acquired some new techniques. I might have acquired better performance, which then when I'm feeling properly will. pay me in the long run by allowing me to target my muscles a bit better and maybe grow a bit more. So that's one of the things which I often suggest to people is switch your emphasis from being as progressive with your training to maybe looking at some of the technical elements that you might have been missing a little bit more when you were focusing on getting those extra reps, getting that next weight increase each week in your building phase. I like it. I like it a lot. think a big question a lot of people may have is, what do I do around events? How do I manage that in an aggressive diet? How are you going to manage that, Sean? Have you got anything you've got to work around, do think? So there's only really two times that there's only really two types of events that I feel like my nutrition routine gets really interrupted at the moment. that's if we go out for food or we eat with our family. So those I don't want to frame it like this. No okay let me ask a different question. So what kind of advice can we give? No, babe, it's not. It's about us. You're making it all about you, you, you, you, you, you. Like all your framing and any sentences are you. Remember the initial podcast was us talking about our aggressive diets. It's getting really confusing. Okay. To follow the flow. I understand. It's just because it says Meals Out. Can they be menu friendly? That's all that confuses me. You lead the way with it then, with events. So a big topic of conversation around these aggressive diet periods and particularly going into summer will be events. You've already mentioned a birthday coming up Katie, so how do you feel about approaching the aggressive diet with an eye on the events that you may have coming up? Honestly, because I have a plan in mind, I find it much easier to adjust around the plan I have than to just free-ball it all. I know if I... want to have a bit more flexibility on my birthday, then I'm to try and factor in my AD cycles around my birthday so I can have maintenance calories and enjoy that for what it is. If I go out for food, which I can imagine will come up over the next couple of weeks, then this one can be a little bit more tricky in AD. Granted, my AD calories are probably manageable to try and eat out with. Some people's aren't at all. For me personally, I can manage eating out, but it does need to be planned and... I would adjust for that around what I in the day beforehand by having very low, low meals and a lower amount of meals before going out for that food. The reality is even if I do go over a little bit of calories on that particular 180 day, then for the whole week I'm still in a very large calorie deficit. I'm still in a more of a calorie deficit across the week than I would have been if I'd done a moderate deficit approach. I'm very to the letter when I do these things, so I highly doubt that I will utilize that. However, it's there and it's available to understand that. If you're in at least a thousand calorie deficit a day, you're in a very low calorie rest over the week. So if you do end up going over a little bit for a particular meal that is out or it's a celebration that you can't really avoid, you're still overall going to be losing a decent amount of body fat during that period. That's right. I think it's something worth noting that there will always be individual differences with this stuff. with what you can afford to eat when you're in a deficit. Like for example, your calories in deficit for the aggressive diet will be significantly lower than mine, and that presents a completely different scenario when we consider going out to have food. I am still gonna have to consider very carefully because... With eating more calories, I also have to eat a lot of food every day and my hunger levels are also very high. So I do need to be careful of what I choose to eat when I eat out because otherwise I could be digging myself quite a big hole. ⁓ But I am far more likely to find options on a menu that will fit into my daily calorie intake if we're eating out for food compared to what you may find. I probably have more room to play with when it comes to menu options. I agree fully. I know if I'm eating out that I've got to my mind on I have I'm going to be swapping out the chips for something like a jack of potatoes or boiled potatoes. I'm going to be having a leaner meat sauce or fish. There's probably only going to be one to three options on the menu that are AD friendly. But that's okay, right? Because that's the phase of the I'm in. It's short lived. I only have to make that more restricted choice. temporary period. And I would be making those exact same choices because I'd want to use my calories as wisely as possible. I'd want to fill myself up as much as possible in that state. So yes, I would still be making a similar choice when I go out for food. If I didn't want to, I'd have the option not to. But the impact of me having to do the impact of, or the impact on the rest of my day would be much less than the impact on the rest of your day. Because even to eat those types of foods whilst eating out, you would still probably have to save some calories elsewhere. 100%. Whereas I wouldn't, I would probably just be able to slot that in as a normal meal. So it just replaced like for like with another meal. So yeah, it's a different scenario and it's something that I think a lot of people don't give respect to. A lot of coaches don't give respect to. They don't realize that when they're explaining to clients about, you can just eat out in this. Like some people will be eating very low calories on aggressive diets. Some people will be eating a thousand calories or so on. progressive diets or less, where are you going to eat out that you can get a meal when your meals are on average if you have three meals a day your meals on average are about 350 calories less than 350 calories each where are you going to eat out to find a meal that serves that? You won't. No, no you won't and it can be really stressful to try and make that fit so it's about When you're in an AD, it's trying to find a period of time where you can just commit to it. But it's easier to commit to it because it's a shorter time frame, But it doesn't mean you can't be semi flexible with that either. It's not hard or fast rule that you have to fully stick to that AD that particular day. There are ways to adapt around that too, if you want to. If it's a case of us having an event on, and like a family event, where we're eating out, then that's a bit different. I'd probably consider, the menu friendly for me to be able to have some meals at work? Because it always depends on where you're eating. If not, I would be more likely to eat before I go. I just go along to the event. Most places nowadays will have at least some options where you can choose a more healthy option. And like Katie said, you can choose whether you want to go a little bit over on that day, still be in a deficit, be slightly over target, but you know your overall deficit for the week is going to be very high. I don't tend to do that because It's just not me, that's not my character. If I have a target, I'm gonna stick to that target. some individuals would like to be more adaptable than that. Some of you listening would probably like to be more adaptable than that. And that's absolutely okay too, it's just knowing what works for you. One thing I would really struggle with is I wouldn't be able to eat out when I'm doing those refeed days. I would probably find it easier to eat out during the diet than the actual refeed days. because of the issue with having to keep the fats so low and the carbs so high. So yeah, the refeed days for me wouldn't provide much opportunity to eat out. In a maintenance week, you definitely could eat out, couldn't you? Hands down, definitely. And that's why it's important to decide what method you're going to choose to apply at a certain time, right? Because I wouldn't eat out on a refeed either. It'd be more stress and it's absolutely worse. So I'd rather just not do it. And likewise with what you just said, Sian, that... When you have a target, you stick to it and that is you and it's admirable. But I also think sometimes when you're, like you mentioned earlier, your calories on AD are a lot higher than mine, a lot higher than your clients, right? So there is room for you to make some good choices to allow yourself to stick to the AD calories. Whereas I could still make those same choices as you for that particular meal out, but that still may mean I'm over my AD calories. and same for some of our clients. So in that moment, it's about not beating yourself up over that choice. And if the choice is that you are going out, except if and what it is, still make the good choices. But it may just be slightly more and more of a deficit on that particular day and use that tool effectively. So think it's about. It's making the right choice for yourself. I'm not using it as an excuse to go, ⁓ well I just have anything anyway because it's ruined. Because it doesn't need to be that way, it? No it doesn't, look, everyone's going to have their own decisions to make. Everyone's going to have different priorities and they're going to see value in different things at different times. So it's knowing what works well for you and it's knowing what would make you feel the most comfortable in that situation. We've all got our own personal... responses and circumstances to take into consideration. I know for a fact that when I'm in any sort of fat loss phase, I have to manage my hunger levels effectively. I cannot afford to waste any calories on pleasure foods and taste foods. I have to eat as... stripped back as I can in order to really fill myself with as much food as possible because hunger really can bite me on the backside and it gets to the point where I just don't see the value in trying to have slightly more tasty food when I'm eating out when I know I'm gonna have to hold back some calories for it and be starving for the rest of the day and probably feel hungry in my training session feel like I'm not able to concentrate very well when I'm doing my work, I would much rather just eat something that's a little bit more plainer and is gonna align better to my targets. That's me. I don't necessarily encourage my clients to do exactly the same as I would do. It's they're going out for a meal to a certain place and they're really keen to have something on the menu in AD and it's gonna take them a couple of hundred calories over their calorie target for the day. Then I say to them, Look, you're probably going to be just fine. Can you trim back some calories elsewhere? Is there anything you can adjust on this day to make up for it calories wise? Is there an option for you to do a few more steps this week in order to provide that room? Are you happy just to accept that you might lose zero point three pounds less fat this week because you've decided to have a few more hundred calories on this particular day? There's there's lots of different options, so I don't always advise people to do it the exact way that I do it either. Very good point. Very good point. There's no one size fits all again. is understand the tools so you can follow the ones that are right for you in the moment. And this is why I get really hacked off with these stupid diet plans that people give for extremely low calories. I think if you're going to go really low calories for an aggressive fat loss phase, it needs to be even more personalised, not less personalised, because... You can end up very, very quickly feeling like you're on plan off plan. You're either doing it well or you're a failure. And that doesn't serve well to everyday life. Like nutrition does not exist in this space between it's good or bad. It's healthy or unhealthy. It's on plan off plan. There's lots and lots of space in between to be adaptable and be flexible. and still be healthy, still achieve good results, still be a committed, consistent person. It's not just as simple as black or white. I think a lot of the diet plans encourage that mentality in individuals. So we will go into this aggressive diet phase with diet plans because it's the best way for us to make sure we can buy the right food we need. We know what we're cooking on each day. We know we're going to hit our targets each day. But at same time, we're still able to be adaptable with that diet plan. And we know exactly what to do to switch around things if we need to. and have a more flexible mindset to how we approach things like our social events. Even if we both handle it slightly differently, we are still allowing that degree of flexibility and at no point are we treating ourselves as failures if we decide to adapt the plan. The plan is to adapt the plan. Absolutely, absolutely. The plan is to adapt the plan. The plan is there to give you peace of mind, give you structure, give you clarity over what you need to do. Having a plan actually allows you to Be more flexible in a way. And I will always stand by this because if you have too much flexibility, nothing really gets done. You don't really achieve what you want to achieve. So if you have a plan in place and then you need to be flexible for one night of that week because you've got a meal out, how easy is that to just adapt that one part of your week over having not to think about the rest of the week? So yeah, I absolutely agree, Sean. think having that diet structure and that plan in place, you know, which... All of our clients will have them when they go into AD, but they have their own version with the foods that they like, the foods that they enjoy, working around their family life and things that they're actually going to serve them, not them looking at the menu going, ⁓ this is, I don't like any of this. It's not, it's personalized to what works well for you as an individual. And then there's the follow-up of what do I do if I am out? What do I do if I can't have that that day? What if I'm on the run this day? What can I do for all these things? That's... matching that personalisation to a diet plan, which totally negates the on-plan, off-plan mentality then. Family foods, Katie, have you got any considerations about like family meal time? So going to our parents for food, what do you have to juggle with that when it comes to aggressive diet or how do you feel about approaching that when you're doing an aggressive diet? I think now we're in a really good spot with our families in terms of if we are in an aggressive diet, it's a case of we just communicate that with either of them and they accept it for what it is and adapt whatever they need to support us during that period. It generally ends up being some kind of chicken dinner or chicken salad and wedges or something like that. So it's easy for us to... be part of the family gathering, but also align with the goals that we're achieving at the moment. So it does take a bit of communication. It does take being open and letting your family know what you want. But I feel like we've got a good balance with our families with that. We do have to tell our mothers, no desserts. No desserts on the menu for us. But other than that, it's... it's fairly easy because we communicate what we want, need and what works well for us. Yeah, for sure. I don't find it that challenging compared to before where I used to get so hung up on whether I should or shouldn't be eating stuff or I try and be a people pleaser and just eat stuff but not communicate what I was doing. So that would then make me feel a bit more on edge about going to eat the stuff. If you're doing like a fat loss phase or an aggressive diet protocol and you want to try and stick to that and achieve that result, then it is 100 % your responsibility to communicate with other people whether... ⁓ If you're doing a fat loss phase or you're pushing for aggressive fat loss and somebody's been kind enough to invite you around for food or offer to do food for you, then it is your job to communicate with them about what sort of food would work well with you and what your goals are to see if you can find a compromise and a middle ground. And it's entirely their choice if they want to turn around and say, well, no, I'm not doing that. I'm doing this. you have to take that on the chin because at the end of the day, you're the inconvenience. But in the same vein, you don't just have to go through life being a people pleaser and just going along and nodding and saying yes to everything. If there's something that's super high in calories that you don't necessarily want and you're not necessarily gonna feel the pleasure of eating it because it's taking you away from your goals right now and you're more focused on getting a result in a specific timeframe because you'd rather feel better about yourself in a future. ⁓ event down the line or you're going on holiday in a few weeks and you're going to have all the indulgence and all the enjoyment a few weeks anyway so you'd rather just knuckle down and get to that as quickly as possible. If you'd rather do that then don't just go along and be a nodding dog and say yes just because you feel like you're putting somebody out or inconveniencing somebody. Like communicate, have a conversation, just be honest. Like why is this not as normalised as anything else? Like if you were ill and you had to let somebody down and say, can't come today, I'm feeling really ill, I'm feeling really sick, then you would communicate. You're not just gonna turn up and go coughing and spluttering all over them. You would tell them in advance, say, look, I've been a bit all this last week, but I'd like to think you would. You'd be courteous, I've been a bit all this last week, I think I'm over it now, you're still okay for me to come round, I should be past it. Yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's no problem, I've been around all the kids in school or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's their choice. leave it in their hands. And I feel like it should be a normal conversation to be able to say to somebody, look, I don't mean to be a real pain, but I've got a few dietary preferences at the moment. Is it okay if we can have something that's a little bit more health conscious or health aware? Or, you know, could we have something that involves these sorts of types of foods? If that's a big problem, no worries at all. Could we rearrange for another time? Or... Have a look and see if you can reschedule your week and replan your nutrition plan for the week so you can have a few extra calories. But you don't have to go all or nothing with it. You don't have to go and accept, ⁓ everyone else is having a takeaway this night, therefore I must have a takeaway. Everyone else is having a Domino's Pizza, therefore I must have a Domino's Pizza. You don't have to do that. I've gone round my mother's house a number of times where they've all had other foods and I have had something else because I've communicated with that. And I've said, it okay if I have something else? Would you mind if I bring my own food? My mom never wants me to bring my own food to her house ever. she'll do me something else and I'll just say, look, don't go through any trouble. Don't make anything that's gonna take up loads of time. I don't want you to cook twice and things like that, but she will do it because I have communicated with her and said, that's what I prefer. And she'd rather me have what I prefer, what's right for me than to not go at all or to have something that I don't want. And I'm sure if somebody's really pleased to have your company, they would feel exactly the same. They want you to be comfortable. They want you to have what you want. It's just communication. Once you've done it a few times, you'll feel easier as well. It may not feel easy to be not the norm initially, which unfortunately is not the norm sometimes. But when you are actually, you know, working towards a specific goal, that generally isn't going to be the norm for everyone because you're working towards a specific goal and that's okay. That's normal to be different in that scenario. It should should be. Like you would tell somebody if you were a celiac. You would tell somebody if you had some sort of food intolerance. Like I'm lactose intolerant so occasionally I have to tell people, ⁓ I can't eat that, I'm sorry, I've got lactose intolerance. So like there are things where you would have to tell somebody anyway so why would it not be normal to say at the moment I'm not eating that sort of stuff? Is it okay if we could work around this? If not then no worries, ⁓ I'm the inconvenience. I'm the problem. And then you can make your choice from there. You make your choice, OK, I just had a high calorie day today, I still want to see this person, it's important to me. Or ⁓ you say, can we rearrange? You've always got choices, but without the communication, you can't make a different decision. We all make it out to be far worse in our heads communicating that than what it is. It's really not as bad as what you think it's going to be like. How do you think that conversation is going go? You're not going to rock up at the house and go, ⁓ I'm not eating that. Like, it's it's it's completely different. You're not being rude. and you're not inconveniencing somebody if you're giving them plenty of notice and kind of putting the blame onto yourself for those choices a little bit. One more thing to discuss in terms of events and abstaining from stuff. Alcohol. Where do you stand with alcohol during a fat loss phase, Katie? In fact, I got asked about this in the gym the other day by one of the boys. said, you know, do you drink if you're in a fat loss phase? So yeah, where do you stand with it? I don't drink when I'm in a fat loss phase. I don't tend to drink a lot these days anyway, if I'm honest with you. But I do when I am on certain occasions. But in a fat loss phase, water wastes of calories. I really don't like being hungry. I hate it. So for me, I would make the choice of having a couple of glasses of wine over having in an AD, let's be real, that would be a meal size or a sack size. I don't see the benefit of having alcohol in the fat loss phase, especially if your fat loss phases can be temporary. You can get back to what you enjoy more if that's what you enjoy outside your fat loss phase. In general, the less alcohol you drink, the better. But in a fat loss phase, you're just so much better off if you don't have it. In my opinion, it just takes away from all the... All the stuff that you're trying to avoid, you're trying to make sure that you're maximizing recovery. You're trying to make sure that you're getting the most out of your gym session so you can retain your muscle and retain your strength. You're trying to make sure that you're not hungry. You're trying to make sure that you sleep well. You're trying to make sure that your energy levels are as high as they can be and your mental focus is as high as it can be. Because all this stuff gets worse when you're in a deficit anyway. And then when you're alcohol into the mix, you're literally throwing a substance in that makes... that makes all those other areas that you're trying to make better worse. Like to me, I just don't see the point in it at all. It's like counterproductive, isn't it? It is. And I think a lot of individuals get away with it when they're eating more calories more consistently and they perhaps don't notice the effects of the alcohol as much. But... from experience, notice the effects of the alcohol much more when I'm in a deficit. If ever I've had a drink when I've been trying to lose body fat at the same time, I notice the effects a lot more. I just don't see the need to have that when your fat loss phase is only a temporary state anyway. I think it's about being honest with yourself. What is the main reason for why you can't go without alcohol for a short period of time? Why is that so much of a struggle for you? Yeah, think understanding that can make the choice easier not to have it. Because there is a lot of pressure, I would say, in the UK, particularly around drinking alcohol. It's the norm to have a drink. You're more abnormal if you don't drink. And in that social environment, then that can make it challenging for people and a bit uncomfortable to be the one to go, I'm not having a drink tonight, rather than it being, okay, no worries. It's, what, you're not drinking, why? What's wrong? Kind of thing. And that can be challenging when already you feel like you're doing something different to what everyone else is doing because you're working towards a specific goal. I just think that... Sometimes abstaining from drinking alcohol and saying no to drinking alcohol when that would be your default position, like you default to, I'm going to have a drink tonight, saying no to that and making your intentions clear at that can actually be an area of self-development. I think it can reveal some of the things about yourself that perhaps you lack some confidence in or perhaps you lack some communication skills with. Like for example, let's talk about social pressure. So it's a very real thing that I think every single person listening to this would have experienced at some point, some sort of social pressure to have a drink, because it's very, very, very common in our society. By not having to drink, by not having to drink and then being questioned on it, you're being exposed to that social awkwardness and you will get better at handling that social awkwardness the more you're exposed to it. If you don't ever expose yourself to it, because as soon as somebody mentions why you're not having a drink, you default to having a drink, or you won't even say no because you're worried about being questioned on it, then you never get better at handling that social awkwardness. So your decision is always to just avoid it. And it's the same with things like if you hear of lot of people that drink to relieve themselves of stress. It's a stress reliever. Well, in my opinion, doing this in a calorie deficit is like robbing a bank to pay off a loan shark. You're in deep shit either way. Something's going to come back to get you eventually. So if you're using alcohol to relieve yourself of stress, but then your stress is that you've got to be in a calorie deficit for longer. Your stress is that you're not sleeping very well. Your stress is that you're not recovering very well. Your stress is that now you've got to do an extra phase, an extra week or an extra couple of days of fat loss on top, more restriction. Another weekend is going to come around, which you could have been out of your fat loss phase four, back to maintenance, probably had a little bit more room to go and have a few drinks. But now you've got to deal with that next event in your diary and next event in your calendar. potentially consider not drinking again and have to deal with all the awkwardness of the social event again because you chose to drink on that previous occasion and you've had too many calories and now you're not out of your fat loss phase soon enough for this next event. All these things can come back to bite you on the arse. But yeah, little tangent there but going back to stress it's like the alcohol is not solving your stress problem it's delaying the solution to the stress problem. It's just temporarily. causing you to forget about it. and plaster over a wound temporarily, but you know it. I think alcohol plays a different role in many people's lives, but if it is there as a stress reliever for you, then you're always going to be trapped to using that as a stress reliever. And life is stressful, it can be really stressful. So trying to break that chain of using alcohol as that stress reliever and just using it if you do drink. When you're out with friends, celebrating family, whatever, that's a different relationship. And I think... Any healthy person or any person that has a long-term physique transformation goal, having a better relationship with how to manage your stress goes a really long way. Absolutely. Again, it's going back to what I said, it's an area for self-development. Stress management techniques are going to be relevant for the rest of your life. They're going to serve you really well for health and fitness. If you're using alcohol to relieve yourself of stress, which it doesn't really, it just delays the dealing with the stress. But then by removing alcohol and experiencing that stress, you just get to the point where you manage or resolve the stress quicker. Because you're not putting the thing in the place that delays it. Instead of just numbing it, you're solving it. Yeah. Or if you can't solve it, learning how to manage it, learning how to ride those... and those emotions in life. And for me it's the same thing with enjoyment. Enjoyment is another one. Like the question is why can't you experience social enjoyment without alcohol? Is it that the environment that you're putting yourself in is overly stimulative to you? Do you find it difficult to communicate and to be sociable if you haven't had alcohol? Well again that is something that alcohol is creating a Again, that is a sign that perhaps you're reliant on alcohol in order to be yourself or to feel more comfortable in that situation. Perhaps it's because you've always relied on alcohol to be comfortable in that situation and you haven't had enough exposure to that situation without alcohol. Now, one of two things could happen. You might remove alcohol and realise, like, for example, I did, I remember going out on a sober night out to a nightclub and I was like, I'm never going to a fucking nightclub again. I'm never going to a nightclub again. I was like, this is one of the worst places I've ever been in. I was like, it's only because I'm drinking the alcohol that I can stand to be in this place. It was like a revolution to me to realize how, a revelation to me to realize how much I did not want to be there. I was like, all this time I've been drinking excessively growing up to go out to these nightclubs, to get through these nightclubs and to try and enjoy myself in this place when deep down it's just because I hate being in this place. So the reason why I hate, the reason why I'm drinking is to try and distract me from the fact that I actually just hate the environment, just doesn't suit me at all. So. Learning that about myself was a really valuable experience in life. Or the other alternative is you go to the experience, you have a good time, you realize I don't actually need the drink to let me enjoy this. I actually really enjoy it without having a drink. So therefore the drink wasn't relevant in the first place. The drink wasn't needed in the first place. So now you can go and do it without having to have as much to drink. So I think that saying no to alcohol in a calorie deficit does provide you potential opportunities. for growth and self-development and being more assured in yourself to be able to do what's right for you and not rely on a substance to determine that for you. kind of like fake confidence, it? I can provide fake confidence and leave you always feeling like you need that to enjoy a situation when you actually may enjoy some situations more without the fake confidence. might enjoy yourself more. You might enjoy who you end up becoming when you expose those situations. And I know people are listening to this and think, yeah, but it's really uncomfortable. It's like, if you listen to this podcast, you're into health and fitness. Everything we do in health and fitness starts with being uncomfortable. We all have to go through discomfort. Whether it's going to the gym for the first time, trying a new exercise out for the first time, whether it's pushing yourself close to failure when you're doing a really hard set in the gym, it all makes you feel uncomfortable. Going for a run, changing certain elements of your diet, it all makes you feel uncomfortable. You do it and you push through your discomfort because the reward's on the other side of it and it's worth it. And it gives you real sense of accomplishment and pride in what you've achieved. So for me, why can't we apply that? If you're into your health and fitness, you're used to going through discomfort, you're used to being uncomfortable, why can't you apply that in the same setting with saying no to alcohol? Yes, it's going to make you feel a bit uncomfortable in certain situations, in certain environments, around certain people, but you should be well-versed by this stage at dealing with discomfort. use that confidence and apply that to this situation. And you'll have to go there sometimes to understand if it's right thing for you, but you'll never know if you don't try it. No, exactly. And look, if you're going to drink, drink intentionally, be aware of what it does to you, be aware that this is an unhealthy substance, moderate your intake, do it in a controlled manner, be healthy around it. We recommend that. That's what we'd recommend if you are going to drink because we're not here to tell anybody what to do. But the original point is that we just can't see any sense in drinking alcohol intentionally in a fat loss phase because it just makes the process so much harder. That's it, you're making it hard of yourself and why make a process already a challenge even more challenging unnecessarily? Put what you want to achieve first. and make sure your actions align to that as best as they can. Absolutely. Before you round up. Yes. This is your second aggressive diet phase. This is your second aggressive diet that you've done. First time round, it wasn't as long. This time's going to be a bit longer coming up now. This time round. Were there any quick tips, any hot takes that you took away from the last aggressive diet that you're gonna put into place in this aggressive diet now? Any experiences you had that you think, yeah, that worked really well, I'm gonna do that again this time. Yeah, there are a number of things. Your calories are limited, right? There's no two ways about it. So it's finding the foods that... ⁓ are volume foods. Yes, you've to your protein, right? That's the first point of call, but around that, what foods can I have that's going to give me a lot of volume? you can get more bang for your buck out of your calories. That's absolutely crucial. And to be honest, that is something I would say to do all of the time, but even more so in an aggressive diet. What sort of things will you be putting into your diet to allow you to get more volume in Katie? So I'll be swapping eggs to egg whites. Surprising how much egg whites you can have, you can have a whopping omelette or some cheesy eggs and this substantial portion like for very low calories. So that is a big swap for me. Usually milk, I'll swap over to something like almond milk because I can still have certain things without it being really calorie dense then. I'll make sure my choices of meat and fish are the leaner options. I wouldn't be having something like chicken thighs. I'll sure we're having chicken breast. I asked you question about volume foods. Oh. You were just talking about low calorie swaps. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. It's because the eggs is a volume one, isn't it? That's why I went to it. I'll be filling my plate with veggies. Fruit, Greek yogurt. Greek yogurt is a winner. You can have a whopping bowl of that for very low calories. I'm trying to think of any other volume foods from last time that I utilized. Can you remember Sean? any sprung to mind for you? Potatoes. ⁓ potatoes! Lots and lots How can I forget about potatoes? And they're so filling compared to other things right? Yeah potatoes. don't tend to generally boil potatoes on my day to day usually but I will have those as part of AD. There were some leaner choices you made as well weren't there? So there were some lower calorie switches that worked really well for you. I'm referring this to you, Katie, because your calories are obviously lower. So it's probably going to be you leading the way with this. Yeah, yeah, cool. So some lower calorie stops have come to mind. Milk, almond milk. As a plant-based milk, I like almond milk. Any meat, fish sauce that I choose, I'll opt for the leaner option of that. So for example, won't be chicken thighs, it'd be chicken breast. Any fish I choose I'll go for leaner options. No actually any meat or fish I choose I'll go for leaner I don't think you said meat. I did babe. Okay sorry. back over to it. Okay. I'm sorry say it again just in case. Any meat or fish options that I choose I'll always opt for the leaner option. So if I have chicken it would be the chicken breast not chicken thighs. If I have cod it won't be cod in batter it'll be cod loin. I probably would. opt for salmon too much, I'd probably offer something like tuna. Again, this is just a temporary period, but those swaps alone will save you hundreds of calories per meal. The higher in protein, more filling. I've already mentioned about the egg swap from eggs that are egg white. Just trying to think any other major calorie swaps that I do. Obviously all the drinks that I have are zero calorie. There's nothing that I'll consume drink-wise that will have calories in it. So it'll be black coffee, I'll have headman tea. I do love having zero calorie fizzy drinks. Particularly, I don't tend to drink them an awful lot actually usually, but in AD, do like them. I find they just fill a gap between sometimes lunch and evening meal, sometimes in the evening after food, when you're watching TV. And you can have different flavors, which is quite nice because generally my meals tend to be more on the plain side in A.D. because I'd rather have the food than the taste per se when I'm in A.D. That's not to say my food tastes awful, it doesn't, but it's not as luxurious when it comes to the sauces or the cheeses, the flavorings, the extra niceties that go on them. Yeah, pretty much the same for me to be honest. talk about this in a moment but you typically lead the way with this in terms of the meal choices but I feel like getting used to eating foods with a bit less taste and a bit less flavor works really well for ADs. ⁓ It's a great time to just reconnect with your relationship with food. I think so much of the time we're so used to over emphasizing flavor with our foods so like put a drizzle of honey on something. It's not just a drizzle unless you weigh it out. It's literally like you put as much on as possible. Like you see people's plates of food sometimes and it's it's smothered in ketchup. It's smothered in barbecue sauce. All the flavor in the food itself is masked by something that goes on top of it. I think it's important to just sometimes get used to eating food without so much exposure to all this different flavor. and just enjoying the foods for what they are. Less reliance on things being hyper palatable, so not really high in sugars or high in fats, altogether a combination of the two. I do feel like that helps and from what we see with the research we have on our guts and the response to food, typically when we eat food that is less hyperpalatable, we tend to get better hunger signaling from that food. So we tend to recognize when we're fuller a bit sooner compared to when we consume much more hyperpalatable food. So doing that in a fat loss phase works really well. Lots of volume food. makes you feel like you're fuller for longer. Your stomach empties slower when you have lots of things like high fiber and high protein in your food. So yeah, it's just trying to select better options really and as Katie said, using your calories as wisely as possible. Stacking up the things that are gonna work in your favor rather than options that are making it harder for yourself, right? It's not that you can't have something really tasty like a... cookie or cake or a not lose weight, of course you can, but, but you literally putting yourself in a position where you would feel like you'll want to keep eating it because you're not going to feel full from it. So why put yourself in a position where you're going to have to navigate that? In my opinion, it just makes sense to go, this is a temporary period. I'm just not going to give myself that temptation. And I know my body is going to respond better to having foods that are high protein, high fiber. My brain is actually going to be told that I'm full rather than being told, eat more, this tastes good, eat more, this tastes good. So it's as simple as that. And I think it's nothing, you're not broken because you want to eat more of this tasty thing. It's just how our bodies work. It's absolutely normal. So, know, don't punish yourself for wanting more of that. It tastes bloody good. Who wouldn't want more of it? But putting that in a fat loss phase where you're already going to be hungry, already going be low in energy, you're just putting yourself in a place where you are really just fighting against yourself and it's not needed. If you do this well, it's literally just a couple of weeks. It's three weeks and then you get a maintenance break or a refeed. If you choose to go for the refeed, then you might not have as much flexibility and options when it comes to the things that you really enjoy going back into that refeed, right? But If you do it well, three weeks on, one week off, you've only got three weeks to say no to things. Like you've only got three weeks of ⁓ less palatable food and then you're out. And you get fantastic results in those three weeks if you can really stick to this aggressive diet protocol. And it's well worth it in my opinion, because you half the time you normally do cutting down fat. You spend much less time in the year overall. Think about all the months afterwards. So you've got... You've got a diet break coming up in three weeks where you can go back to maintenance and have some more of the things you enjoy. But then you've also got the rest of the year after you've finished your fat loss phases to be able to spend pretty much the entire year at maintenance or slightly above. I want to say unlimited access. I mean unlimited access in yes, you still need to keep eating these things in moderation, right? But you can choose as and when you have these things. Virtually whenever you want, you have full control and full choice for the rest of the year. To me, it's just a no-brainer to restrict yourself for three weeks and then have a break and then another three weeks and then have a break to be able to open up all that time to be able to enjoy this stuff long term with less restriction. And that's my mentality going into it anyway. I don't care if my food has to taste a little bit more bland. I really don't. And I guarantee that the meals that we put together in our AD are probably far more tasty than what most people would expect bland food to be like. Like we're still seasoning literally everything. The amount of clients have said, wow, I'm actually really enjoying the foods on AD. It's next to none. I don't think I've had anyone say they don't enjoy the meals on AD. It's just the fact that you don't have as many calories to play with. So you don't have as much as the pleasure foods in your diet. That doesn't mean that your diet during an AD sucks. It's actually really nice. I think people are surprised by how much they enjoy. healthy food when they used to tell themselves, you know, healthy food isn't as tasty. Things like vegetables. I don't really like vegetables, they're not as tasty. What are doing? Why are acting like that? I don't really like vegetables, vegetables aren't very tasty. And then they go on an aggressive diet and they actually have to find a way to enjoy their vegetables because they've not got many calories, they need something that's really filling and really volumizing and they need something with fiber in it and some nutrients in it. So vegetables have to be on the menu somewhere. So they work out ways that they can start actually seasoning or preparing vegetables that they like and then all of a sudden it's like, surprised actually I didn't think I liked this as much so well no because you were telling yourself you don't like it and never eating it But now, because the other options are off the table, and because all the hyper-palatable stuff is off the table, and you can only eat this stuff, you can only eat these whole foods, you've now realised actually they're probably much nicer than what you thought. So be careful about the stories you tell yourself about food as well. And one of the things that... What seems to be consistent across all the members I've coached through Aggressive Diets is they all say that their relationships with their food improves. It doesn't get worse, it improves. Because they learn to appreciate more within their food and then when they go back to having the things which they enjoyed previously, they typically don't want as much of it. They typically don't crave it as much. It's not everyone's experience, but most people report that they don't want it as much, they don't crave it as much and more of their diet then naturally ends up being healthier, more whole food based, less need for intense overflavour-ication. Intense overflavouring of food with either too much fat, too much sugar or things which generally just add up a hell of a lot of calories without providing much more fullness or health. Yeah, it's a real eye-opener and I think it's something that gets worked up. mentally more than it needs to. And I can understand why to an extent, right, but... I honestly have not had anyone do AD and gone, I regret doing that. Because there's so much to be gained from it about learning about your habits, the things you like, things that don't work for you, your relationship with food, what you value the most, and then of course the great results from it as well. So yeah, just open your mind to it. Open your mind. Let's wrap up this very interesting discussion about aggressive diets. ⁓ there's one key point. There's one key point I missed that I just want to quickly discuss. So if you're doing a fat loss phase in your household and you are the lowest calorie eater. If you are living with somebody that is doing a calorie deficit or they're on lower calories, you have a huge part to play in... supporting them and helping them in that environment and the more you support them and the more you cooperate with them, the greater their chance of results is. So going into this period, choosing to align my fat loss goals with Katie's fat loss timeframe this year helps her to be more likely to be successful. When it comes to the diet plans that we have made to do the aggressive diet, Katie made the diet plan first for her needs, for her calories, for her nutrition targets. And I have then looked at it and I've added the bits which I need to add to that diet plan. So Katie has led the way. So Katie has led the food choices because she's on much less calories than me. And what she needs to eat is more of a priority than what I need to eat for this period in order for her to hit her targets. I can be a bit more adaptable, let's say, because I have more room to be adaptable. I cannot understand the mentality of an individual that would not want to support their partner with their fat loss phase. I'm just going to say it as it is. I cannot understand the mentality why you'd be like, well, I don't have to eat like you. I don't have to eat that stuff. Yes, you can still have some of the things you enjoy. If that's not your goal right now, the person in the household that has that as their goal is obviously responsible for managing their nutrition and managing their diet. And they don't have to force everyone else to eat. But if you want to support your partner, then make a few changes to your nutrition. Don't moan and groan about everything that is changing in your nutrition pattern, in your nutrition routine. Because if you support them, they will do a really good job. It will be a temporary state. They'll be done with it far sooner. You'll have them back feeling their best much quicker. They'll be much more comfortable in themselves. They'll be able to return back to higher calories much sooner and you'll have far more time with them to be able to enjoy much more of their company and their meals and your meals together as normal. Going out for food more together as normal. All that stuff will happen much quicker if you support them. If you put a barrier in place and you make it more challenging for them because you can't find a compromise or you're putting your needs before theirs in that state. then you're just gonna keep bashing your head against a brick wall because guess what? They're not gonna achieve their fat loss goal. They're gonna be pissed off. They're gonna be frustrated. They're gonna feel like they're always gonna have to restrict to try and get to their fat loss goal. They're not gonna be 100 % present with you when you're going out for food because they're gonna think, right, well, this is stopping me from achieving what I really want to achieve. This could last for years. I've coached women where they have had this for decades, decades of restriction. Decades of not allowing themselves to be free and liberal with their food. Decades of having to check every single menu to granular detail when they go out to have food. So what I'm saying is be supportive of your partner's goal and you'll get the best out of them. If you're not supportive of them, then expect it to be more challenging in the long run. You might think that it's easy for you if you don't have to change your meals around, but I promise you it will make things harder in the long run. Just get on board with it and they'll be done much quicker and in a lot more of a happy state. and then you can have them back to your best. So that goes important to them, having your support and backing. will do wonders for their journey. Give them confidence that they can do it. They know they've got the most important person on their side. And like Sean said, it'd be over and done with a lot quicker rather than dragging that out for years. And that person not feeling their best self for years. Great point raised there, great point. We're not talking like something ultra specific here. We're not talking like going on a crazy wacky diet. We're not talking about like, you know, only eat, like we're not saying like go on a carnival diet, for example, and you can only eat meat for the next eight to 12. Well, if you were telling me to do that Katie, then I'd quite rightly tell you to bugger off. We're not, you know, You're not stopping me from eating because you're prepping for a bodybuilding show and you're down to like 800 calories a day or something. Fuck's sake. You know. But it's not that extreme. It's just a case of you're gonna have to be a bit more selective with what food choices you make in your diet weeks and you're gonna have to be a little bit more repetitive potentially with some of the food choices you make. That's all it is. Yeah, agreed. I fully agree. It's a small compromise to make in my opinion. I think it's one that a lot of people make far too much of a fuss about. battery's on 9 % it's getting rinsed so just FYI don't want to lose this it's gone down from 14 to 9. Okay no problem so let's summarize the podcast after my rant I know I let you have the floor there I let you have the stage it was a good you had a few rants on this program you got a few rants on this podcast actually and I've just been sitting there going ah I hear you you know I just don't want people to spend. more time doing fat loss than they need to be because there's just so much more enjoyment to be had when you're not in the restrictive state. anything that delays or slows that down in my opinion is just a net negative and the more of those things you can remove that slow down fat loss and that make it a really dragged out process the better. I couldn't agree more with you. Fat loss should be temporary. If you can literally give it your all and get in and get out of it. Your relationship with yourself, your friends, your family, your health and fitness is only going to benefit from it. So yeah, I fully agree with you, Sean. On to our first point. Going to aggressive diets with a plan set out. Yeah, don't wing it. Absolutely not. It's not a phase to just wing. You're going to set yourself up for a tricky road if you do. And we quite literally mean a plan as well. Having a diet plan in mind is really smart for this phase to start off with. Training plan, absolutely something to keep you adherent and motivated to go to the gym and something to... structure your workouts in an effective and time efficient manner. you're far more likely to succeed with this if you have those in place. Consider how you handle socials, tie them, be strategic. You can manage both to an extent. Of course, you don't want to be going out every day. That would be an absolute nightmare, lady. But you can manage them with a bit of planning. Yeah, we've opted for a three-on-one-off approach, but we've had members that have done two-on-one-off because of the way that their holidays have landed or time off work has landed. There are adaptations that you can do to aggressive diets where you don't have to go for the fastest fat loss ever and you can maybe do four weeks in fat loss and then one week off. There's different options you can choose, right? But if you can time your social events around when you're in the off weeks rather than the on weeks, it might make it much easier, especially if you're doing a diet break and not a refeed. If you're doing refeeds, you might be a bit screwed for having meals out. Yeah, for me, refeeds just serve that purpose of it's essential for what's happening in the body, but it's not really life friendly. Yeah, and on that point, consider whether you do a diet break or refeed because there's no right or wrong to this. It's what works for you best. Just bear in mind that diet breaks will take a little bit longer. to go to maintenance rather than the three day refeed. And it all depends on how long you want to be focusing on being in a fat loss phase four overall. But do remember, you do it in aggressive, you're already saving a lot of time than doing it in moderate approach. Even if you do take a week after diet break, your fat loss phase will still only be, could only be four weeks instead of six, for example, anyway. So you're already saving a lot of time doing that. So don't fear going into diet break for the length of it. just work around your schedule and when you want to achieve your goals, bye. I think it's really important to go in with the right expectations. It will be challenging, but everything worth doing is a challenge, right? You've got to overcome the hard parts to get the reward. So go in with those expectations. Know that there are going to be hurdles for you to jump over. If you've got the right plan, you know how to execute it. Those challenges won't be quite as drastic, I want to say, and you'll know what you need to do and how to adapt it. But yeah. Losing fat is a hard process regardless of what you do, if you can get it done quicker. In my opinion, even if that's not full aggressive diet, even if it's more than a moderate deficit, you're going to save yourself a lot of stress time. I couldn't agree more. Many of you listening will feel like you're more than capable of following a plan and executing it if you only have to do it for a short period of time. The problem is that life doesn't get put on hold whilst you execute your perfect plan. And this is where it catches up with most people because you worry that it'll all be a waste of time if you can't stick to things perfectly. Things won't ever be perfect. You can't wait around for that to happen. Life will always present some sort of challenge or hurdle that you need to overcome. If you wait around forever, you'll never get rid of the fat that you look at in the mirror every day and wish wasn't there. The beauty of our coaching is how personalized it is, down to every single detail, which means that if you get to week two of aggressive fat loss and there's still a trip away on week three, we can adapt that around you. We've adapted fat loss around important interviews, work trips, four-day conferences and birthdays. And we'll help you to know how to manage these too. It won't be a case of you always have to rely on us for every decision. It's a case of we're going to equip you to make these decisions for yourself in the moment as well. You'll know what food to pick up whilst you're away with work. how to Google local food places, how to look at the menus so that you feel equipped to manage whatever phase you are in. loss does need to be put on hold. You need to learn to work with what you've got. And we can remove most of the guesswork for you and teach you how to make your diet match your current circumstances and show you how to be adaptable without spoiling your last three weeks of work by going off plan. Because what we teach is so personalized, you get to learn how to do it for yourself as it's your life and we're adaptable. Because what we teach is so personalised, you get to learn how to do it for yourself, as it's your life we're adapting the coaching for. If that's what you need in order to drop fat and approach your summer months looking forward to getting into your summer clothes instead of dreading trying them on, then head to the description, hit the link below to drop us an enquiry, or you can reach out to us on Instagram for a friendly chat. That's all for this episode. Don't forget to like or comment if you enjoyed it. We'll be back next week with a fascinating deep dive on diet plans. We're going to share our opinions on diet plans, the advantages and disadvantages and if we find them useful or not. I know for a fact my opinion has changed back and forth a number of times about diet plans over the years. Will we even agree on all the points? There's only one way to find out. We'll see you all in the next episode.