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Building Mindful Leaders Today With Barry Moulsdale · Mindful You

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Alan Carroll: Welcome to the mindful U podcast. Today's
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guest, Barry Mozelle, who has spent over 25 years focusing in
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on the conversation of developing leaders, developing
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executives, how can you build successful teams? How can you
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navigate through the churning things and issues and ups and
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downs of the situations that we're facing in our societies
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and our businesses worldwide. And I'm happy to have him today
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sharing about how mindfulness being present, communication is
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all a part of developing leaders. So I'd like to welcome
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Barry to the mindful you podcast, I bury the listener
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with a question about leadership. Let's start with a
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question about mindfulness. And how do you see, first of all,
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how do you see mindfulness and the ability to be present and
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mindful in the moment? And how is that connected to being a
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leader and being present in the moment?
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Barry Moulsdale: Great question. I would say that the number one
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flaw that we observe in leaders, is a lack of self awareness. And
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what I mean by that is, it usually takes leadership 360
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reviews, or takes personality assessments for them to better
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understand their own motivators or behaviors, or blind spots, to
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have a better sense of self. And then we go through an exercise
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or practice that really shifts them from being a reflexive
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leader, to being a more reflective leader. And the irony
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of this journey, Alan is, if I were to ask 100, leaders, how
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would they naturally solve this simple problem, over 80% of them
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would admit or say that they would do it the right or the
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reflective way. But the irony is when you then put them to task
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and you role play, and video, record them, solving a very
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simple everyday problem 99.5% of those people recorded, and we've
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recorded in this journey, not me, but the people who utilize
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this intellectual property have recorded over half a million
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people doing this, and 99.5% of them no matter how friendly they
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are, naturally, act like they're in the Savannah versus the
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business world, and instinctively solve the problem.
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So the reason I say that is, it's two things. One is being
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mindful of self, and being able to understand and go through
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assessment and discovery and feedback, to get a better real
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perspective, not how you see yourself, which matters, but
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more importantly, how others see and interact with you. That will
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be number one. And then number two, and I can relate to this,
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because this is exactly the journey I went on, that drove me
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into wanting to do this for so many others. Number two is, even
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when you've learned those tools, you're shifting from what I call
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Allan, an unconscious incompetence, meaning you just
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saw the only one know why you instinctively do it, through a
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mindfulness journey, all the way through to what we call
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unconscious competence, to then know and have the natural skills
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to actually be reflective in any interaction with your people,
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your clients, your customers, and anybody else. And the
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difference is actually being able to effectively listen. And
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being mindful of the situation. And being mindful that the
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person you're in front of has a story to tell. They have
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challenges that they're facing. And instead of solving them for
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them, when you think you're doing a great service. They
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think like they ultimately walk away being told and feel
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dismissed and feel sometimes even to the point of stupid,
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right? You thought you were in there great. They didn't see it
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the other way around. So it's being able to be mindful of
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putting yourself in the other person's shoes and asking the
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right questions and structuring the conversation. Giving your
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data to make sure you're aligned. And then collectively
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working together and empowering that person who has the problem
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to go off and then try to solve the problem. So it's it's
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certainly a strong sense of awareness, maybe not exactly the
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scientific term of mindfulness that you're offering. But
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ultimately, what it boils down to, is being mindful in the
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moment. And one of the things that we teach people is how to
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observe when they're really good at it. And then observe when
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they're still challenged with as they're moving from conscious
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competence and awareness of the skill to then making it
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subconscious or unconscious. And to having that happening
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naturally. You know, things like leaving your phone on the other
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side of the room, closing your laptop and moving to another
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part of the room. So you're having a one on one discussion
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intently, without distraction, as a leader, not worrying about
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being efficient, to keeping the trains running on time in your
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schedule, but being effective and present in the moment with
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that person, and then utilizing all these tools.
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Alan Carroll: Wow, so many, so many sweet words, you said there
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that are just gold minds to be able to uncover self awareness,
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observation being in the present moment. All those are terms that
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I mindfulness person would say, Yep, the idea is to be present
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in the present moment. But then then the question is, well, if
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they're not present in the present moment, if they're not
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self aware, then where are they? Where are they in their head?
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Where they're not? If they're not here in this meeting? Where
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the heck are they?
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Unknown: They're, they're thinking about the problem that
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came up themselves they have to solve. They're thinking about
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their calendar, and what's next? And how do I get this person out
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of my office, so I can get my five minute break in. So I can
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answer those three, pending urgent emails, and so on, and so
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on and so forth. Right? It's the natural inclination that leaders
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feel that others observe them to have to be efficient. And look
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like they've got it all together. But in reality, none
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of us have it all together. Right? So it's the ability to be
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vulnerable, and admit that and be humble, and show weakness,
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and show that you don't have the answers. Like, you know,
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everyone's given the great interview advice. If you get
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asked the question, and you don't know the answer, or via
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customer and sales, you'll make way more of a positive
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impression on that person. They say, You know what? I don't know
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the answer. I'm sorry. But you know, what I'm gonna do, I'm
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gonna get you that answer. I'm going to commit to finding that
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answer. And through hell or high water, and I know it's dependent
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on the people getting me that answer, I want to get back to
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you in this amount of time. Right. So it's that mindfulness
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and that commitments to being humble and vulnerable. That
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impacts our interaction with other people, whether it's in
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life, or whether it's in work, or whether it's, you know, in a
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pyramid organization, where you have the authority of being a
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boss, but an authoritative boss, who has the title. And I'll
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refer to John Maxwell, a very good leader who writes on
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leadership, good level one is you have a title because you're
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the boss. Yep. There's five levels to evolve to. Right, and
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we help people on that journey to understand them, and how to
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apply different tools in becoming that fifth level
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generation. Fifth Level category, if you will, a leader.
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Alan Carroll: Let's take a look at that word. vulnerability.
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Sure. And we'll look at the word of characteristics of a
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professional leader. I'll use the word professional leader,
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someone who, who has been in the been in the driver's seat has
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driven the vehicle has experienced, and on the journey
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they have learned how to be more reflexive, be more aware of what
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is going on in the reality in which they live, and some of the
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characteristics of a person who is good at the game that good at
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the leadership game. And one of the ones he pointed out was the
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area of vulnerability and being able to not have it all
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together, to be able to realize that most of the knowledge in
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the world you don't know. And so often, you're going to be asked
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what are what are the answers and vulnerability means exactly
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what But you said is that, I don't know, however, I work for
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the largest organization in the United States, and we have
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resources. And that's why you want to do business with me,
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I'll go contact my resources. And I'll get back to you. And
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one of the characters
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Unknown: go on, for sure. And to take that further, you know, all
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the great leaders, I've had the fortune to either work with
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train interview on my YouTube Leadership Series will however I
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find them and interact with them. The vulnerability comes
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from just a more human to human mentality and approach. They
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don't wake up thinking that these are my employees, they
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wake up thinking about, these are people on my team. These are
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people whose lives they have a responsibility for, and not just
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themselves, but also their families. And the best quote,
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ever heard of a leaders was, hey, if I'm never the smartest
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person in the room, as a leader, it's time for me to leave. I
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need to be the most mindful person in the room to your point
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earlier. But I have absolutely should not ever be the smart and
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just admitting that is the first step in vulnerability to
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surround yourself with subject matter experts who know a heck
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of a lot more than you do. Regardless of whether the topic
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is HR, finance, sales, marketing, operations, logistics
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supply chain, I can go on and on. But that's what makes a
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great leader is understanding that of self.
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Alan Carroll: I love it. I love it, I think of a Tony Robbins
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quote. And Tony Robbins said you want to operate with people who
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are league above you. And it's like, oh, no, they're much
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smarter than me. Well, you know, the, the tide rises all the
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ships. So by hanging out with people who have a greater
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understanding of the subject matter, allows you to be in that
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vibration, you know, and begins to elevate yourself.
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Unknown: And if you're comfortable in your own skin,
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and humble enough to admit you don't know, and that's why you
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surround yourself with subject matter experts. In essence, by
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choosing to do that, you're actually showing the first stage
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of vulnerability, because you don't fear replacement. You
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don't fear not being the smartest, you don't fear not
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being seen as the highest IQ. What great leaders all have in
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common Allah is they have enough practical experience and acumen,
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to have acquired enough level of IQ, to understand concepts to be
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in the present to digest information. Yep, and offer a
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perspective or an opinion that has business IQ sense related to
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it. But that's just the only have to have enough of that.
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What truly great leaders have is the highest level of EQ. And if
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there's one common trait amongst all the different personality
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types, regardless, people used to think in the 60s, oh, the
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aggressive dominant drivers are are the only ones that make the
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best leaders, not the case. So it's having that EQ and self
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awareness and understanding the personality traits of others,
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and chameleon yourself to how to relate to this person, because
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there are this personality style. And these are their
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specific intrinsic motivators. And vice versa, depending on the
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situation, and who you're in front of just that conscious
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awareness of adapting itself to the individual nature of that
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one other person at a time. And that's only level two or three.
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That makes a huge compelling impact on the receiver of that
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interaction on that exchange.
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Alan Carroll: Wow. So let's go back and get the definition of
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EQ so my audience will know what that means. Yeah, basically,
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it's
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Unknown: emotional intelligence. It's the other type of
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intelligence where there's lots of batteries of tests out there
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that measure your IQ, you know, how, how intellectually smart
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are you? Emotional Intelligence is how aware of environments are
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you? Do you have the ability to understand someone else's
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motivations? Do you have the ability to observe and
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understand why people behave the way in which they behave? Do you
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have a comprehensive understanding of your own blind
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spots, to know that in moments of pressure and stress, this is
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a natural tendencies that in which you naturally revert to
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under pressure and higher though Have behaviors impact others.
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That's really emotional intelligence. And being aware in
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the moment.
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Alan Carroll: That's very much tied in with mindfulness.
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Mindfulness has a lot to do with being able to have. One of the
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sayings is, you're welcome to have strong positions. But hold
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them lightly. And when you have a strong position, you can hold
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it lightly. It allows for flexibility. And flexibility
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allows for listening. So how, how does listening affect? Being
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a being a great leader to me is connected with listening?
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Unknown: No, that's a fantastic question. And, you know, I'm I'm
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a naturally analytical thinker. So every time I'm making a
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point, I will probably reference a statistic because it kind of
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drives the point home in my personality. But, you know, 90%
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of people listen, to wait our turn to talk. 10% of people
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actually listen effectively. And obviously, I've met you for the
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first time I'm doing my second podcast interview ever. Right? I
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have to listen intently to know and hear and understand the most
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part, I heard your question. Did I understand your question?
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Right? Do I then create the time regardless of what amount of
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silence gap there is, it shouldn't matter, that
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uncomfortableness of silence is actually a good thing. Because
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if your brain doesn't work to the answer as necessarily fast
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as someone else in the room who may or may not, again, back to
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mindfulness and self awareness, that's not a flaw. That's not a
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crush. That's not a weakness. I'm going to take the time to
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reflect on your question. If I don't understand your question,
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I'm then going to ask you to clarify it. Number one, right.
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If I do understand it before he answer, I'm still gonna get in
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the step with you. Right, and give you a listening statement
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to confirm. Before I answer, I heard you properly.
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Alan Carroll: That's excellent. Excellent. That's, that's shows
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Unknown: that I'm actually effectively listening and not
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just waiting for the pause, to jump in in that state.
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Alan Carroll: Wow, that's great. The I find that the listening is
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a challenge for many people.
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Unknown: And often when you say that, right? As an example, I
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always say to people, think about how intensely you listen
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to your children, when they come to you in tears or having meat.
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It's your natural instinct to watch, you may have still want
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to solve, which is wrong. But you still want to understand
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because you have an emotional connection to helping that
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child. Conversely, how many times do we all have the skill,
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right? That we're doing something important, whether
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it's reading, watching a football game, we're in our own
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zone, and your wife comes downstairs and starting to talk
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to you? Right? And you're like, yeah, oh, yeah, I heard. You're
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not You're not You're not paying attention. You don't pause the
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game. And now we have the power on PVR. To pause it. That's
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right. Yep. And be intentional. And give them your presence.
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Right. But because we have such a comfort level, in that
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relationship, there's almost an anticipated behavior that your
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wife expects, they're going to be like, Yay, I heard. That's
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great. All she's looking for is the wave of acknowledgment. But
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imagine the impact if you actually pause the game, got up,
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turn towards them, made eye contact and said, Sorry, honey,
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I missed that. The game was still on. I wanted to give you
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my undivided attention. What is it you want to talk to you about
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for five? Right? The impact? So if you naturally know for your
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kids, and you naturally don't do it for your wives,
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theoretically, right? And you can sure don't get me wrong,
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right? But you think about those two extremes. And how you can
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bring presents, which again, relates the mindfulness to the
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conversation or one of the things that we teach is how to
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make sure you are acting, mindful and acting reflectively
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but also, when you put it into practice, that sounds great in
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theory, but that's why you have to continue to use the muscle
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and we make our people follow up with us. and give us every
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single week we talked to them. Give me the best two examples of
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you applying this last week. Fantastic. Now let's talk about
20:09
the two times where you didn't think you were as effective. And
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you didn't feel like this was unconsciously competent, and you
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kind of revert. And what we study is, was it the person you
20:19
were dealing with their harder style to understand, was it the
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environment where their external pressures were on the other
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environmental factors, because we've seen and heard every
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single scenario where people still struggled to do it. So
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it's not like an online course you can learn and then go apply
20:38
and hope you succeed. The benefit for us is, the more
20:42
sticky it gets for you. The more potential it is they you see
20:47
this awakening or this magic, as we like to call it. And the more
20:51
people you're going to tell about as a positive awakening, I
20:55
like to call it crossing the leadership bridge, because
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you're always on a movement journey, and you come to that
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bridge, where you're either going to stand there for the
21:04
rest of your career, you're going to dip a toe the wrong way
21:07
and drown. Or you're going to take the time and invest in
21:11
yourself to move across that bridge. And sometimes the bridge
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can be smooth and slow. Sometimes the bridge can be old
21:18
fashioned and rickety. It really you really defined by your
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application and commitment to it, what type of actual bridge
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your journey is. And then the beauty of getting out on the
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other side of it.
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Alan Carroll: And crossing a bridge that tricky day requires
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courage sometimes. So I would imagine courage is part of
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leadership. Also.
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Unknown: I was saying that. The number one thing that I look for
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in prospective clients, when I'm having a conversation with them,
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is not what they can afford. It's not how much time are they
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willing or not willing to commit his life is busy. It's really
22:01
about courage. I asked, I literally asked them to rate
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their courage on a scale of one to 10. And then give me two or
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three examples of why they gave me that number, whether that's a
22:12
pro or con. Sure. Because I think people have to reflect
22:19
inside themselves to say, Do I know I have a need, that's
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probably the hardest part of leadership. To be honest, Allen
22:27
is people having the self awareness and mindfulness to
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your point to to see all the challenges going on their
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workforce, and their workplace results. People, clients,
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vendors, union, all the everyday challenges we go through to have
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the mindfulness, the self awareness to say, maybe I'm the
22:50
problem, maybe I need to go and do better. Versus that person
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has got to go on a performance plan that person we need to get
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rid of that person we need for probably moved from that seat on
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the bus, to that seat on the bus, the last thing people ever
23:04
look at is themselves. So to do that, takes courage. And then to
23:12
reach out and inquire and find assistance to recognize you can
23:17
be better. It's something takes courage. But all the great
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leaders I talked to, and all the great leaders I interview
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because they're really good case studies, the number one
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commonality other than vulnerability. And humbleness is
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they've all had formal leadership training at some
23:37
point throughout their careers. And they've all got that thing,
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whatever it is to go back and refer to as a refresher, or to
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replenish that muscle, if you will, as their as a reminder
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when they face more challenging times.
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Alan Carroll: Wow, that is great. What a rich, rich
23:56
conversation Barry, we have a couple of more minutes and I
23:59
really would like my audience to have an opportunity. If they
24:02
wanted to connect with you want to find out more about your
24:06
organization, how they how they can do with that. Also, all your
24:10
links will be included in the show notes, turn it goes out to
24:14
the distributed to the world. They'll be able to see all the
24:17
details, but go I'm
24:22
Unknown: sure at the end of the day. We have created and I'm the
24:25
founder of a leadership program called the boost Leadership
24:30
Program. And unlike fancy acronyms like smart goals, boost
24:35
is exactly what it says it is for boosting leadership
24:39
performance. Whether that's amongst a leadership team, or
24:43
whether that's individually one on one. It's a 90 day program
24:47
designed to move you to becoming that truly reflective leader
24:52
away from a natural instinct of being a reflexive leader to move
24:57
you from either level one, two or three If you think about John
25:01
Maxwell's five levels of leadership, we take leaders on
25:05
that are level one, level two or level three, and we migrate them
25:09
within 90 days to level four and level five.
25:13
Alan Carroll: And what would be the website that we could
25:16
contact you on?
25:17
Unknown: We are at www Enfield business consultants.com. I'm
25:23
originally from Liverpool, England, and I'm a huge global
25:28
football supporter, not American football, even though I follow
25:31
the NFL. So for lots of you, that would be considered soccer.
25:35
And Liverpool is one of the most famous clubs in the world. The
25:39
stadium that they play at is called Anfield. And the theory
25:45
or the tagline around the Liverpool Football Club is
25:48
you'll never walk alone. Our company tagline is you'll never
25:52
work alone. We're here to be your partner. We're here to help
25:54
you on your journey. And we're here to help you succeed.
25:57
Alan Carroll: Wonderful. Well, Barry, I thoroughly enjoyed the
26:01
just a little touch of a deep conversation. And I appreciate
26:06
you sharing your wisdom and knowledge on your journey. And
26:10
thank you very much and I would like to continue. Can't do it
26:14
today. But I'd like to continue our conversation on leadership
26:17
because you're a rich resource for our audience.
26:20
Unknown: Anytime. I'd love to join, it's a topic that I have a
26:24
great passion for I never get tired of talking about.
26:27
Alan Carroll: Well thank you very much for your time.