Latest / The Lila Rose Show / E80: How Science Proves God’s Existence

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E80: How Science Proves God’s Existence · The Lila Rose Show

• 0:00
  What is the best evidence on the existence of God?
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  One thing is sure, prior to the beginning, physical reality did
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  not exist. Therefore, something else,
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  something completely transcended with the creative power to
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  create out of nothing, would have had to have done it.
• 0:20
  What is the evidence for Jesus Christ being God?
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  It's it's a huge amount of things.
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  In the Old Testament, the flood, Is this an allegory?
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  Was there a flood? There was a flood.
• 0:35
  Hey everybody, welcome back to the Lila Rose Podcast.
• 0:38
  Thanks so much to everyone who has been asking me how I'm doing
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  because my voice has been maybe a little hard to listen to in
• 0:44
  some recent episodes. I had a horrible cough and got
• 0:47
  sick over the last month, but I am back at it and thankfully
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  feeling much better today. We've got a really special guest
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  in studio. I'm very excited about today's
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  episode. We're going to be sitting down.
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  We are sitting down with the only the one and only Father
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  Robert Spitzer of the Magus Center.
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  He was also the president of Gonzaga University.
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  He is a very good Jesuit priest. One of the the cream of the crop
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  has been a priest for over 40 years, but really has done
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  incredible writing and speaking on the origins of the universe,
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  the existence of God, those mega questions about life and
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  humanity. And we're going to get into the
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  on today's podcast. I think it's fitting.
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  It's the end of the year. We're going to be going into
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  2024. We just celebrated Christmas.
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  Merry Christmas, by the way, sorry for not already saying
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  that, but we're gonna talk about the big questions about how do
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  we know that God exists, proof for the existence of God and so
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  much more. So without further ado, thank
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  you so much Father Spitzer for joining the podcast.
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  Always great to be with you, Lila.
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  Thanks for the opportunity. So quick background on you for
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  those that are not familiar, you're one of the most brilliant
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  priests around. Everyone thinks so that knows
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  your work. So give us a little background
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  on your educational background and on your professional work,
• 2:02
  Father. Well, my professional background
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  is a, you know, would teach in a, in a, in a university in the
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  philosophy department generally, but taught philosophy of
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  science, taught also metaphysics, the relationship
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  between faith, science, philosophy and science
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  throughout my career. I started at Georgetown and went
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  to Seattle University where I took the Frank Schrontz chair
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  there and then finally went to Gonzaga University as the
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  president of the university there, but continue to teach in
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  the areas of philosophy of God, faith and science, you know,
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  scientific evidence of God, etcetera, in those areas for
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  those times. And I've written it extensively
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  on it. I just published 2 new books.
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  One's called Science at the Doorstep to God and the other is
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  Science, Reason in Faith, Discovering the Bible.
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  And I have another one coming out called Science at the
• 3:05
  Doorstep to Christ, talking a little bit about the Shroud of
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  Turin, Eucharistic miracles, the scientific investigation of
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  those things. So I've been hard at this
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  subject for for many, many years.
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  I've been a priest for 40 years, as you said, but also I've been
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  in the academic area for even longer time, about 45 years I've
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  been doing this. Wonderful.
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  And the institute that you lead. Now what does the Institute do?
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  Well, the Maja Centre certainly of course sponsors the books.
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  We do want to get out to that audience that is can benefit
• 3:43
  from a book once the deeper explanation and so forth.
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  And the reason we write it is because the Catholic Church has
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  been the leader in faith and science and faith and reason
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  well throughout its existence. Basically, we have certainly not
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  shun science. Several priests were at the
• 4:03
  forefront of science and including Father George
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  Lemaitre, who was the first person to discover The Big Bang
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  theory, where he crafted basically Einstein's general
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  relativity theory into a theory of initial origins of the
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  universe, which at first Einstein told him, well, the
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  mathematics is fine. The physics, it just can't be,
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  you know, it can't have an expanding universe.
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  And later on, after Hubble actually showed through his
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  survey of the heavens that it was true he came, Einstein came
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  back to Lemaitre and said, well, Father, your explanation of the
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  universe is one of the very best I've ever seen.
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  Wow, so. He came back around.
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  So in any case, but the Catholic Church has been in that, in that
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  area for a long, long time. So the books are really
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  important. That's, you know, for us a kind
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  of a foundation stone to keep the the Catholic Church current
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  in those scientific areas, in the philosophical areas.
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  Then we also make high school and middle school curricula.
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  So if I might brag, there is a very good book called series
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  called the Catholic Faith in Science.
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  One of is a is A1 semester course for middle school called
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  Speak the Faith. The other one is A1 semester
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  course for senior year of high school called the Catholic Faith
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  in Science. Our partners Sophia Institute
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  for teachers with that course. I recommend it for anybody if
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  you want to form a a leader in in evangelization these days
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  science does the talking for young people and no question
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  about that. And if we don't let science do
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  some talking to show the evidence for God from the
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  science. I'm afraid we're going to lose
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  42% of our kids, which is what the Pew survey is showing very
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  recently. But we also do many other things
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  in modules. We also, you know, run a series
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  of on our own website. We have a series of resources
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  there as well. We also have a parish program
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  that we work again with Sophie Institute for, for teachers.
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  They publish our books and you know, I do the videos and things
• 6:21
  that can be self facilitated. And then we work with youth
• 6:24
  groups as well. We're starting to put together a
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  deal with life team right now and we're also working with
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  seminarians because the propitutic gear for the
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  seminary, that's the time to really get the scientific
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  training and background undergirding our faith, which
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  will help young people out. But it will.
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  Also help the seminarians out as well.
• 6:44
  So we kind of diversify into all those areas, but they're all
• 6:47
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  Wonderful. Well, earlier you were saying
• 7:58
  something really interesting. I want to start with it because
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  I think this is the common objection to, let's say,
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  religious faith, or the concern about faith in general, is that
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  it somehow contradicts science and reason.
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  And I think particularly with the Roman Catholic Church, I
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  think there is a common misunderstanding that the church
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  has somehow been regressive, has rejected the advances of science
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  or has persecuted, you know, persecuted Galileo, persecuted
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  those that were seeing advancements in that space.
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  So what's you mentioned, a priest who really actually
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  schooled Einstein as an example. But give us more your take on
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  the Church's engagement and development of the sciences over
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  the last several centuries. Sure.
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  Well, just, you know, to start off with, it used to be the case
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  that, you know, there was more or less an even split between
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  scientists who are theists believers in God versus
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  scientists who are agnostics and atheists.
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  Today, however, 51% of scientists over all declare,
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  according to the last few survey, declare themselves to be
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  believers in God or a high transcendent power.
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  Only 21% declare themselves to be agnostic and 20% declare
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  themselves to be atheists. So the idea that most scientists
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  are atheists is just simply falls.
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  What's more interesting is among young scientists today, that's
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  35 years or younger, 66% of those young scientists declare
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  themselves to be believers in God or a higher transcendent
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  power. And the reason for that is, is
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  pretty clear because the evidence is now, which we'll
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  talk a little bit about today, is overwhelming in favor of God.
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  It's much harder to be an atheist today than ever before
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  in the history of both faith and science.
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  And by the way, only about 15% of a young scientist declare
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  themselves to be agnostics and about 15% atheist.
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  Among medical doctors is really differentiate. 76% of doctors
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  declare themselves to be believers in God or a higher
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  transcendent power. Only 12.1% declare themselves to
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  be agnostics, 11.5% declare themselves to be atheists.
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  And then if you look at the percentage of doctors who
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  believe in miracles, you know 74% of doctors believe in
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  miracles both past and present. And the reason is clear, because
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  they see the miracles in their own practice.
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  Wow. I mean, I, I, I've, you know,
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  doctors have told me, you know, every two months I see something
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  that's completely naturalistically inexplicable.
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  I mean, I, I I can't possibly be is.
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  It connected to prayer or connected to the faith of the
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  patient or their family. Absolutely.
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  It's absolutely connected to prayer.
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  There's very good articles by Doctor Harold Kinnick at Duke
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  University Medical School, and he and his team have put
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  together a series of studies that show that prayer not only
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  has a beneficent effect in emotional health, right?
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  So people's well-being emotionally, but there we know
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  there's a three to four times increase in a sense of
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  well-being. Or we could look at the opposite
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  direction. Those who are non religiously
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  affiliated have a four times increase in depression, anxiety,
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  suicidal ideation, suicides. So we know religion and prayer
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  are really important for emotional health.
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  But what Koenig is showing in his studies is it also has a
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  radically good effect on physical health.
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  And by the way, all of his articles as Koenig, all those
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  articles are free of charge right on the Internet.
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  So just look up Doctor Harold Koenig, Duke University studies
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  in in medicine and faith. You'll see it.
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  So there is that going on. But back to the Catholic Church.
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  There's a wonderful little Wikipedia article called
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  Catholic Clerics in Science, or maybe it's now Catholic Clergy.
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  Scientists is the the name of the Wiki article Catholic clergy
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  there. They show that well over 200
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  priests, priests. Now, you know, we're involved.
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  A Catholic priest were involved in the development of science.
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  I mean, first of all, you know what, Roger Bacon, I don't have
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  to say anything more about that. He's the monk, Franciscan monk,
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  but of course was the founder of a scientific methodology,
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  Nicholas Copernicus. Well, he was a Catholic cleric.
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  He wasn't a priest, but he was responsible for the Copernican
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  revolution. Remember, the whole Galileo
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  affair was about heliocentrism, right?
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  The sun being at the center of the solar system and planets
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  revolving around the sun and, and the Catholic Church was
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  certainly not against heliocentrism.
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  After all, the first person to articulate mathematically and
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  and justify mathematically the possibility of heliocentrism was
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  a Catholic Eric named Nicholas Copernicus, who basically even
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  had a a Canon law degree as well.
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  So very inconstant faith, very inconstant Catholic Church.
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  But of course, one of the prime, the reason he's revolution,
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  Copernican revolution, is he was the the guy who took the first
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  step, you know, in heliocentrism.
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  Furthermore, I think people recognize the name Gregor
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  Mendel, the father of quantitative genetics.
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  He was an Augustinian monk and Abbott, you take a look at
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  Nicholas Stano. Nicholas Staino was the father
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  of what we call a contemporary stratigraphy.
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  That's the geological evaluation of stratification of, you know,
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  the earth's core. It's a Crest and and so forth.
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  So all of these things that he was, by the way, a Catholic
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  Bishop, Danish Bishop there. As I just said, Father Georges
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  Lemaitre is the father of The Big Bang theory.
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  Now, that's the most comprehensive, rigorously
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  established theory and that, you know, unifies all of our
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  cosmology and physics and astrophysics today.
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  That was a Catholic priest and as I said, acknowledged by
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  Einstein to have been the first person to have discovered it.
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  And by the way, if you look at that, if they look at that
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  article in the Wikipedia, you can see 200 other Catholic
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  priests who are instrumental. By the way, the Catholic Church
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  of Jesuits specifically controlled seismological
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  laboratories all over the world for over a century.
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  I mean if you wanted to. You know, what was going on
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  scientifically from a geological perspective, earthquakes,
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  etcetera, etcetera, Earth movement, etcetera, tectonic
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  plant plate. You just consulted a Catholic
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  priest. They were the guys at the at the
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  at the head of the thing. So the idea that the Catholic
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  Church is so antithetical to science is pretty laughable.
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  I mean, they were involved in science from the very beginning.
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  And the Galileo affair was not about heliocentrism or even the
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  church's rejection of a scientific theory.
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  It was all about the rules of publication during that time.
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  And basically the Pope said to Galileo, this is very
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  controversial. We're getting our chops busted
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  here by a lot of people, not just a Catholic, Catholic
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  faithful, but Protestant faithful as well, are very
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  concerned about this thought that maybe heliocentrism
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  contradicts the Bible. So let's back off on this until
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  we have positive proof from stellar parallax that it is in
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  fact the case. You can't just leap from the
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  lunar orbits around Jupiter, you can't leap then to a
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  heliocentric view of the solar system without factual
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  verification through stellar parallax.
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  That's a technique that you can use to verify that for sure.
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  The only explanation is that the, the, the planets are
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  orbiting around the sun rather than, you know, the sun and the
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  other planes orbiting around the Earth.
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  That was called geocentrism. But the, the key point is, is
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  the Pope just asked him hold off on the publication.
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  It was Galileo and said, I don't think I'm going to do that.
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  I'm going to publish this as fact.
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  And then of course, he kind of ridicules the Pope as being a
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  fool in his dialogue. And, you know, the Pope said,
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  man, you know, this is this is way beyond the pale here.
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  You're acting, you know, like something that is not a fact,
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  established fact, yet is really the truth.
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  There was a very fine Jesuit by the name of Saint Robert
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  Bellarmine and Bellarmine 10 years earlier before the whole
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  controversy. I'm convinced that if Bellarmine
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  had been alive, the controversy would have never happened.
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  But Bellarmine actually told his friend Foscarini, he said, look,
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  you know, and we now call that Bellermann principle today.
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  But he said, look, he said, if you can give me a scientific
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  demonstration that in fact the the Earth is orbiting around the
• 17:03
  sun, then no problem. It's up to us as Scripture
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  scholars to find an interpretation of Scripture that
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  does not conflict with the scientific fact.
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  But to my mind, such a demonstration does not exist
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  yet. And of course it didn't exist
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  until Basil came along, you know, almost 200 years later and
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  established through stellar parallax, you know, that the
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  heliocentrism was indeed the case.
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  So I mean, it, it, it wasn't about the Catholic Church.
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  Rejecting Catholic Church was never have done anything like
• 17:35
  that. The Catholic Church would, you
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  know, certainly have been open to it.
• 17:39
  And Bellarmine as he said, hey, if you can give me a scientific
• 17:42
  demonstration establishes the facticity of this, I'm all over
• 17:45
  it. But you don't have one.
• 17:48
  Galileo then when he published that thing, then that's when the
• 17:51
  Pope got upset and said, hey, you know, you broke your
• 17:53
  promise, etcetera, etcetera. So it wasn't that it might in
• 17:56
  some way endanger Scripture, it was more that we want more proof
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  and we need to, you know, there was a there's a high standard
• 18:05
  that they had for new theories that would being kind of
• 18:08
  expounded upon, especially in a culture where, you know, the
• 18:11
  papacy had an outsized impact both politically and and
• 18:15
  culturally. I think people don't realize
• 18:16
  that today because today's papacy has some impact
• 18:20
  politically, but nothing close to what it did in the last, you
• 18:22
  know, few 100 years of, of Western civilization.
• 18:24
  But you mentioned something really interesting.
• 18:26
  We'll start with this when we go because we're going to get into
• 18:28
  how do we know God exists? Is there empirical evidence that
• 18:31
  God exists? And I'm going to ask that
• 18:32
  question. But first, you mentioned The Big
• 18:35
  Bang theory as a theory of a Catholic priest initially.
• 18:41
  Can you explain how the because some people see The Big Bang
• 18:43
  theory as well, the universe came into existence not through
• 18:47
  God. And you know the seven days of
• 18:50
  creation in Genesis. Clearly this denies that because
• 18:55
  it Big Bang Theory doesn't account for seven days of
• 18:57
  Genesis as it told in the book of Genesis.
• 19:00
  Can you break that down for people?
• 19:01
  Why the scriptural account of the creation of the universe is
• 19:05
  in no way contradicted by a Catholic priest theory of The
• 19:09
  Big Bang. Sure.
• 19:10
  Well, first of all, you know, with respect to, you know,
• 19:13
  looking at scripture and science, the first thing is we
• 19:19
  got to go back to that encyclical of Pope Pius the 12th
• 19:23
  called Divino Aflante Spiritu. And, and this came out in 1942.
• 19:28
  But Pope Pius the 12th, you know, of course, you know, The
• 19:31
  Big Bang theory, it was already published by Lemaitre in 1927.
• 19:36
  So I mean, the word was out. The universe is, you know, now
• 19:39
  we know that the universe is 13.8 billion years old.
• 19:42
  At the time Lemaitre thought it was 18 billion years old.
• 19:45
  That's because he didn't have the good observational powers of
• 19:47
  telescopes we have today. But the point is that when this
• 19:53
  came out, you know, Pope Pius the 12th had to answer and he
• 19:55
  made an observation that stays with us to this very day.
• 19:58
  And the and he said, look, the point of sacred scripture is to
• 20:02
  give sacred truths necessary for salvation.
• 20:07
  That's not the purpose of science.
• 20:10
  The purpose of science is to give an empirical, mathematical
• 20:14
  explanation of the physical universe.
• 20:18
  Now. You have to let the two you know
• 20:21
  methods do what they're supposed to do according to their two
• 20:25
  purposes. You don't want to make you know
• 20:29
  you know the sacred Scripture, which is supposed to give us
• 20:32
  sacred truths necessary for self.
• 20:34
  You don't want to make the the Scriptures do science because
• 20:37
  that's never been the intention of God in the Scriptures and it
• 20:41
  was never the intention of the biblical author.
• 20:44
  And, and you know, being inspired to write the Scriptures
• 20:47
  to do an empirical mathematical explanation of the physical
• 20:50
  universe. They were trying to explain the
• 20:54
  important kinds of things that are necessary for our salvation.
• 20:58
  For example, you know, the biblical author we're talking
• 21:01
  here about, you know, around 600 BC to 500 BC, right in that
• 21:05
  area, the biblical author who's, you know, writing, you know,
• 21:10
  let's say our Genesis One account in the Bible and, and we
• 21:16
  call him the priestly author, whoever he was.
• 21:19
  But this priestly author who's writing it in about 600 to 500
• 21:23
  BC, he's looking at it from the vantage point of there's all
• 21:26
  these rival myths out there, the Gilgamesh epic, right?
• 21:30
  And, and the Atra Hasis, you know, epic and so forth and so
• 21:36
  on. And they have a very different
• 21:38
  view of cosmology than me. You know, the biblical author,
• 21:43
  I'm inspired to, to, to know. And So what are some of the
• 21:47
  differences? So he first of all, he, you
• 21:49
  know, it's polytheism galore in the rival epics, right?
• 21:54
  But the the biblical author says, no, there's one and only
• 21:58
  one God. Is that necessary for salvation?
• 22:01
  Oh yes, that's very necessary for salvation #2 there's, you
• 22:05
  know, God is the creator of everything else.
• 22:09
  That is, there's one God, everything else is a creator.
• 22:13
  So there's no sea God, there's no forest God, there's no
• 22:17
  mountain God, etcetera. There's just the one
• 22:20
  transcendent God. Everything else, mountains,
• 22:23
  trees, seas, etcetera, are creatures.
• 22:26
  But then he goes on to say a lot of other important things.
• 22:29
  So all the rival myths, of course, human beings are mere
• 22:33
  cannon fodder, you know, on the old chess board for the gods to
• 22:38
  play with. And the biblical author says,
• 22:40
  no, that is not the case at all. Human beings are actually made
• 22:46
  in the image and likeness of God.
• 22:48
  And from the beginning, God made them because he loved them.
• 22:52
  He made us in his own image because he loved us.
• 22:56
  Of course. This is so radically different
• 22:58
  from these rival. Is that necessary for somebody?
• 23:01
  Oh, yeah. I mean it sets the.
• 23:02
  Tone. For the next 2600 years of
• 23:06
  religious history. So this is really important now
• 23:09
  did the biblical author and was he supposed to be inspired about
• 23:13
  science? Was he supposed to say 13.8
• 23:16
  billion years ago a quantum cosmological configuration came
• 23:20
  into existence and suddenly it's separated off so that the
• 23:24
  gravitational power was no longer, you know, in, in a
• 23:28
  quantum gravitational state, but was really a space-time
• 23:32
  configuration that we know in the general theory of
• 23:34
  relativity. And then the electroweak force
• 23:38
  rolled off of the, of the, of the strong nuclear force.
• 23:41
  And then of course, what happened is stellar, you know,
• 23:44
  nucleus synthesis and so forth and so on.
• 23:47
  I mean, the biblical either couldn't possibly understand
• 23:50
  anything but. But here's the devil's advocate,
• 23:52
  right, the devil's advocate. And I, I'm sure there's someone
• 23:55
  listening who is thinking, OK, Christians consider the Bible to
• 24:01
  be part of the inspired word of God, both evangelicals and
• 24:04
  Catholics. And you know, it's certainly
• 24:07
  part of the Magisterium as Catholics.
• 24:08
  So it's part of, you know, this is the, the, the governing body
• 24:12
  of truth for faith and morals. And when it comes to the Genesis
• 24:17
  count, so was that just sort of some fancy allegory he used
• 24:22
  about the garden and the seven days?
• 24:24
  Because there's certainly, especially among some Catholics
• 24:28
  and certainly among many evangelicals that say we can't
• 24:30
  just throw out the seven days because they're inconvenient
• 24:33
  with sciences, the new information we have from our
• 24:37
  understanding of science. No, it's a really good question.
• 24:40
  I mean, basically we don't have the same viewpoint as the
• 24:44
  evangelicals do relative to what we call inspiration.
• 24:48
  There's basically 2 opposed views of inspiration.
• 24:52
  One's the dictation theory of inspiration.
• 24:55
  The other is the Co participative view of
• 24:59
  inspiration. The dictation theory is that God
• 25:03
  comes and says, OK Father Spencer, you know, write down
• 25:08
  exactly what I'm saying. Everything I'm saying is truth.
• 25:11
  It's not just truth about salvation.
• 25:15
  I mean truth about things necessary for salvation.
• 25:18
  It's true. It's about science too.
• 25:20
  You have to take it all and all of it is meant to explain,
• 25:24
  explain truth in all fields of thought.
• 25:26
  We don't have that view of inspiration, never have had, not
• 25:31
  even at the time of Saint Augustine, you know, in the four
• 25:34
  hundreds did we ever have such a view of inspiration.
• 25:37
  We always had a Co participative view of inspiration that God
• 25:41
  works with and through the biblical author so that the
• 25:46
  biblical author is part of the inspired word.
• 25:51
  Now, of course, Cardinal Rotzinger is a very important
• 25:54
  came Pope Benedict. He wrote has written a lot of
• 25:58
  important books on this. Well, how do you tell then what
• 26:01
  parts of you know, Scripture inspire what parts are not what
• 26:05
  parts are culturally relative, what parts are the core
• 26:09
  material. So Rotzinger distinguishes
• 26:11
  between, you know, what he calls the core inspiration and also
• 26:18
  what he calls, you know, the rind, in other words, the, the
• 26:22
  skin or the husk that's surrounding the core.
• 26:26
  And he just says the, the rind or the the husk is really, he
• 26:30
  calls it the form of the expression or the external form
• 26:35
  of the expression that he says is culturally relative.
• 26:40
  It's not inerrant. Therefore, whereas the core
• 26:44
  inspiration that we've been talking about these there's one
• 26:47
  God, you know, there's no sea gods, etcetera, etcetera, or
• 26:52
  that human beings are made in the image and likeness of God,
• 26:55
  etcetera. These are the core inspirations.
• 26:59
  They're inerrant. They're never going to change.
• 27:02
  But you know, Rotzinger would say, well, wait a minute.
• 27:05
  Does that mean then that, you know, the form of the expression
• 27:09
  is not always an errant? Yes.
• 27:12
  The form of the of the expression is not always
• 27:16
  inerrant. In other words, the biblical
• 27:19
  author didn't have a scientific form of, of expression.
• 27:22
  You can't make him have a scientific view of expression.
• 27:26
  And in Divino aflante Spiritu, that's what Pope Pius the 12th
• 27:30
  makes very clear, that if you're talking merely about the
• 27:34
  external form of the expression, then of course it is culturally
• 27:38
  relative. So you don't have to accept that
• 27:41
  as a form of expression. So could you say a day is
• 27:44
  allegorical? Yes, you can say that a day is
• 27:47
  allegorical, of course. And of course.
• 27:50
  Can you say that the garden is allegorical or even
• 27:53
  metaphorical? Yes, you can.
• 27:54
  And by the way, most Catholic Scripture scholars today view
• 27:58
  the garden per SE as metaphorical and and you know
• 28:03
  that the expression, though has a the the whole core of you
• 28:07
  know, of the revelation that definitely, you know, for
• 28:12
  example, original sin or that, you know, Adam and Eve were made
• 28:17
  with a fully cognizant, reflective awareness of God, of
• 28:22
  God present to their consciousness.
• 28:24
  Yes, that part is definitely core Revelation is inspired and
• 28:31
  inerrant how and at the fact that they turned around and and
• 28:37
  you know, they understood that, you know, various things were
• 28:41
  wrong, for example, a self idolatry.
• 28:43
  They knew that they knew they weren't gods.
• 28:46
  But of course, as the biblical text says so perfectly, the
• 28:50
  devil comes with what? Little.
• 28:52
  Tidbit for them, if you eat from this fruit, why you'll be just
• 28:57
  like God. You'll be as smart as he is.
• 29:01
  You know, he's holding something back from you.
• 29:04
  All you got to do is eat and you're going to be just like
• 29:07
  him. Self idolatry to the man.
• 29:09
  Do guess that's a core inspiration, you know, and they
• 29:12
  went ahead and ate the fruit and of course the fall happened.
• 29:16
  Concupiscence enters into the world.
• 29:19
  That original condition of Adam and Eve is is now ruptured and
• 29:24
  of course we're stuck with it to this very day and what we call
• 29:28
  being born into original sin. So I have always had a hard time
• 29:32
  finding skin care products that I really liked and wanted to
• 29:34
  continue using. I've tried a lot of different
• 29:36
  products, so I was really excited to discover
• 29:39
  nimiskincare.com. That's Nimi. nimiskincare.com.
• 29:45
  What's so awesome about Nimi is it's a beautiful brand that
• 29:47
  shares our values. It's a pro-life, pro family
• 29:49
  brand, but that doesn't mean necessarily the product is going
• 29:51
  to be amazing. So I tried the product a few
• 29:53
  months ago and I fell in love. Nimi Skin Care has an amazing
• 29:56
  vitamin C cream that I love using, an evening moisturizer
• 30:00
  that I've been using, and I also really love their sunscreen.
• 30:04
  They have amazing products that are simple.
• 30:06
  The ingredients are no nonsense. They're listed on the website.
• 30:09
  You know what you're using on your skin and the price point is
• 30:12
  great. So check out nimiskincare.com.
• 30:15
  I think you're going to really enjoy their products.
• 30:17
  That's Nimi skincare.com and you can get 15% off your order using
• 30:21
  the code Lila at checkout. Let's take that for a moment.
• 30:24
  There's so much good stuff to unpack here.
• 30:26
  And we're going to get to the proof for the existence of God
• 30:28
  in maybe maybe towards the end after exploring this piece.
• 30:31
  Because I think it's connected to The Big Bang theory
• 30:34
  coexisting with the Genesis account and both being true
• 30:38
  parts of the Genesis account potentially being allegorical as
• 30:40
  you're saying. But there's core truths that
• 30:42
  don't change, like man and woman, He created them in the
• 30:45
  image of God. He created them.
• 30:46
  But something I've always wondered is, you know, there's
• 30:50
  the theory of evolution, of course, you know, there's macro
• 30:54
  and microevolution and certain aspects of it that we know are
• 30:57
  more maybe provable than others. But this idea that God created
• 31:02
  man innocent with free will, and then we chose to sin and we
• 31:07
  broke, you know, we brought upon the the curse of death,
• 31:10
  etcetera, right? How does that fit into the
• 31:14
  scientific reality of the origin of the universe and the origin
• 31:18
  of humankind? Were there two initial adult
• 31:22
  human beings that dropped out of nowhere where there may be 1000
• 31:26
  of them that God just created as adults potentially that then
• 31:30
  were given the choice whether or not they were going to obey and
• 31:34
  then disobeyed, and that disobedience carried on for
• 31:37
  generations? What's your take on that?
• 31:39
  Well, by the way, I have a book called Science, Reason and Faith
• 31:43
  Discovering the Bible put out by our Sunday visitors.
• 31:46
  Press OSV Press. I have this explained in the
• 31:50
  first 3 sections, but let me just give you the brief the.
• 31:53
  Cliff Notes the. Cliff Notes version.
• 31:56
  In the scientific account of evolution, there's no question
• 32:00
  that Homo sapiens sapiens, you know, were, you know, kind of
• 32:05
  originating out of previous hominids.
• 32:09
  So it'd be Homo erectus prior to Homo erectus was Homo habilis.
• 32:14
  Prior to Homo habilis, there were a variety of other
• 32:17
  elementary hominids. Now Homo sapiens come about,
• 32:21
  then Homo sapiens sapiens. And that's certainly going to be
• 32:25
  the case for about 600,000 years ago.
• 32:28
  But suddenly, 200,000 years ago, out of this group called Homo
• 32:33
  sapiens sapiens, we have what we call mitochondrial Eve and Y
• 32:37
  chromosome Adam. Who are these two?
• 32:40
  Well, they're not our first and sold ancestors out, as I'll
• 32:43
  explain in a moment, but they are our first genetic ancestors.
• 32:47
  In other words, Mitochondrial Eve is our mother, our genetic
• 32:51
  mother. Everybody on the Earth, every
• 32:53
  single person on the earth has. Her mitochondrial DNA and
• 32:58
  embedded in every cell of our bodies.
• 33:01
  So she is present everywhere as our genetic mother and that is
• 33:08
  in every human being. Y chromosome Adam who also lived
• 33:11
  about 200,000 years ago, he is the, the ancestor, the, the
• 33:17
  father of every man on the globe.
• 33:21
  So if, if you look at the, the Y chromosome, that's why it's
• 33:25
  called Y chromosome Adam, the Y chromosome in every man's body
• 33:29
  is, you know, a remnant of what we got from Y chromosome Adam
• 33:35
  200,000 years ago. Now I, I, you know, you ask a
• 33:39
  good question. You know, well, are they our
• 33:42
  first parents? Is that who Adam and Eve are
• 33:45
  referred to? I don't think so.
• 33:47
  I think they're our first genetic parents.
• 33:49
  But for 130,000 years are, you know, the progeny of
• 33:55
  mitochondria, even Y chromosome Adam, They were, you know,
• 33:58
  living at the border of Namibia and Angola, you know, cracking
• 34:02
  coconuts and eating bananas and being very sedate and non
• 34:06
  creative. So these are not Homo sapiens.
• 34:09
  Well, they are. They are Homo sapiens.
• 34:10
  Very much so. But you're saying they're not in
• 34:12
  sold? Yeah.
• 34:13
  I don't think they're in sold Wow.
• 34:15
  In fact, I think installment happened 60,000 years ago.
• 34:19
  There's a very good book that just came out about five years
• 34:21
  ago, MIT Press by Noam Chomsky and Robert Berwick and in that.
• 34:26
  Book it's called Why only us you get the the genetic evidence of
• 34:32
  there's something strange going on 60,000 years ago.
• 34:35
  Anthropologically, we call it the great Leap forward.
• 34:38
  I'll just give you the cleft notes again. 60,000 years ago.
• 34:43
  There's no previous example of mathematics being anywhere
• 34:47
  around Homo sapiens or around the the progeny of Y chromosome
• 34:51
  Adam and mitochondrial Eve. None.
• 34:54
  And then all of a sudden 60,000 years ago, we see counting
• 34:56
  sticks everywhere and we see notch counting sticks.
• 34:59
  We see three Rd. not notch counting sticks.
• 35:03
  Or people are actually doing not just addition, but
• 35:06
  multiplication on various base levels.
• 35:10
  And, and you look at that and you go, wow, well, you know,
• 35:12
  that just came out of nowhere. I'll get, you know, I'll get to
• 35:15
  the point in just a moment. Then suddenly there's no
• 35:17
  conceptual language. You know, like, for example, we
• 35:21
  have perceptual ideas versus conceptual ideas.
• 35:24
  Perceptual ideas ideas were very highly trained.
• 35:27
  A chimp like Nim Chimpsky, he can learn 120 words in American
• 35:32
  Sign Language, but all American Sign Language is doing is
• 35:35
  comparing the image of a banana with the symbol.
• 35:39
  Of the the American. The sign language symbol of a
• 35:41
  banana. That's great, but it's all on
• 35:43
  the perceptual individuated image level.
• 35:46
  Nim Chimpsky has no words for groups, no words for
• 35:50
  relationships among things, no words for relationships among
• 35:55
  relationships. In other words, no abstract
• 35:58
  ideas that can serve to function for math, to serve for groups of
• 36:03
  things Where you can talk, you know, talk about groups of
• 36:06
  things and make abstract comments about them and
• 36:08
  characteristics about it. You know, Nim Chimpsky with all
• 36:11
  of his 150 words in American Sign Language, he can't
• 36:14
  distinguish between dog bites man and man bites dog.
• 36:18
  What will make a, you know, a 2 year old little child chortle at
• 36:23
  the thought of a man biting the dog?
• 36:26
  Nim's clueless. He doesn't get it because he
• 36:29
  doesn't have any conceptual ideas.
• 36:31
  But 60,000 years ago, what do we notice this huge advance in
• 36:35
  technology, not just in weaponry and fish hooks, but I mean,
• 36:39
  navigation technology, the creation of boats, geography.
• 36:43
  They're actually now beginning to, to, to, to move 60,000 years
• 36:48
  ago from, you know, in the border of Namibia and Angola all
• 36:52
  the way up to the northern coast of Africa.
• 36:53
  We'll talk about this in a while.
• 36:55
  And then using navigation technology that's highly
• 36:58
  sophisticated, go all the way down to India.
• 37:01
  I mean, suddenly where's this coming from?
• 37:04
  And so we can see that there's conceptual ideas going on.
• 37:07
  Then we also notice homo religiosis, right?
• 37:10
  So it's not just homo mathematicus and you know, homo
• 37:13
  linguisticus, etcetera, that we also see this, this homo
• 37:17
  religiosis where all of a sudden human beings 60,000 years ago
• 37:21
  start burying their dead with grave goods.
• 37:25
  They could be very useful in the afterlife.
• 37:29
  Neanderthals buried their dead, but never with a grave.
• 37:32
  Good. They never buried them with
• 37:34
  flints and weapons and Spears, you know, And then all of a
• 37:39
  sudden these figurines of goddesses, not just fertility
• 37:42
  goddesses, but lion goddesses and all kinds of other things,
• 37:46
  you know, powerful goddess gods and goddesses.
• 37:49
  Excuse me. And so you begin to see, aha.
• 37:51
  And then we begin to see the symbolic cave paintings.
• 37:56
  They're going 60,000 years ago, we in the caves and in Rhodesia
• 37:59
  and in France, suddenly we get, you know, art of every kind.
• 38:03
  And it's not just art like painted jewelry, though that
• 38:07
  it's not just music from bone flutes and, and, and things like
• 38:11
  that, certainly that, but also we get highly symbolic
• 38:16
  paintings. In other words, we can see that
• 38:19
  these in in these images that are being drawn, there's some
• 38:22
  notion of transcendence, some higher power.
• 38:26
  It's already that that human beings are thinking along the
• 38:28
  lines of it isn't all about just being here on earth.
• 38:32
  They have a sense of immortality.
• 38:34
  They have a sense of a divinity and transcendence that goes way
• 38:38
  beyond any Neanderthal. And then it gets even more
• 38:42
  interesting. You know, it's not just that the
• 38:44
  aesthetics and and and so forth, the religion, but all of a
• 38:47
  sudden we can see that the complexity of the establishments
• 38:51
  that they have. So they're now building villages
• 38:54
  and as an order to the village, there's a center, there are
• 38:57
  peripheries, all kinds of but it's even more interesting
• 39:01
  suddenly, as I said 60,000 years ago are indolent, you know a
• 39:07
  progeny of a white chromosome atom and and mitochondrial Eve.
• 39:12
  Suddenly, Kablammo, they are going 60,000 years ago right to
• 39:16
  the top of of Africa. They're crossing the straits,
• 39:20
  they're going into Asia, they're settling everywhere in Asia.
• 39:23
  They're just multiplying languages as they go and all
• 39:27
  kinds of linguistic systems and grammatical systems requiring
• 39:30
  very abstract consciousness. And then they're going over into
• 39:33
  Europe and they're zooming all the way up to the northern parts
• 39:37
  of of Europe and then crossing the Arctic land bridge.
• 39:40
  So they're moving from Europe or Russia all the way to Alaska.
• 39:44
  At one time there was a land bridge.
• 39:45
  It actually you could walk over to get to the northern parts of
• 39:50
  of what we call Alaska today and then all the way down to the
• 39:54
  southernmost tip of South America.
• 39:56
  And we did that in 10,000 years. For 130,000 years we did nothing
• 40:01
  but eat bananas and crack coconuts.
• 40:04
  And then suddenly we're like Kablammo.
• 40:07
  But you're you're saying we and human beings, but you're
• 40:13
  implying and I'm, I'm cutting you off a little bit here, but I
• 40:15
  really want to really want to get this.
• 40:17
  I know people listening are wondering, is that the the spark
• 40:21
  of God it got he created them in his image.
• 40:24
  He created them male and female. He created them.
• 40:26
  Did that happen in its fullness at that 6060 thousand years ago?
• 40:31
  Was that the number, Mark? And they got in, sold and that's
• 40:34
  when they had the ability for worship and for language and for
• 40:38
  organizing and for relationship. You got it.
• 40:41
  In other words, in my view, 60,000 years ago God gave a
• 40:47
  transcendent soul to the first male and first female ancestor.
• 40:54
  So he chose to two of these progeny and he gave them a
• 40:59
  transcendent soul. What I mean by transcendent soul
• 41:02
  is the capacity to transcend mere physical processes.
• 41:05
  You see, you can't become conceptual without having what
• 41:09
  we call some higher abstract notions that give rise to
• 41:13
  questions and things like that. You're not going to get those
• 41:16
  from physical processes and structures.
• 41:18
  We have self consciousness, and you're not going to get that
• 41:22
  from physical processes and structures.
• 41:24
  You can show the irreducibility of human self consciousness to
• 41:28
  physical processes and show you can't reduce them to physical.
• 41:32
  So in other words, something happened.
• 41:35
  We were given some kind of transcendental powers that
• 41:38
  enabled us to be mathematical, that enabled us to break what's
• 41:42
  called a gettel's incompleteness theorems and become abstractly
• 41:47
  mathematical. Did that transcendental power
• 41:49
  include immortality that that was then immediately lost
• 41:53
  because of sin? Well, you know, certainly it did
• 41:56
  include immortality because by its very nature, right a a trans
• 42:02
  physical thing like a soul doesn't have to die along with
• 42:08
  the physical body. So it definitely included, you
• 42:14
  know, a form of immortality. And of course, did it did we
• 42:19
  lose that immortality, you know, because of the the first sin of
• 42:26
  Adam and Eve there, you know, the the point that, you know,
• 42:30
  interpreting the word death comes into the world.
• 42:34
  You could certainly say this. Human beings knew the minute
• 42:40
  they had an immortal soul and had this sense, this awareness
• 42:45
  of being immortal in themselves. They knew that what they had
• 42:49
  done threatened their capacity to to live beyond the material
• 42:56
  world. And that, we can surely
• 42:59
  establish, is a biblical fact that corresponds with the
• 43:03
  scientific evidence. Now did you say, would you say,
• 43:07
  well, did physical death come into the world at that point?
• 43:10
  No, because of course there are lots of organisms that died.
• 43:15
  There been about life for about 3.9 billion years,
• 43:19
  microorganisms for a long time, but 2 billion years we've had
• 43:23
  plant life that's died. And you know, we've then had,
• 43:26
  you know, worms that died and you know, you know, higher and
• 43:30
  higher amphibians that died and then finally vertebrates that
• 43:33
  died, etcetera, etcetera. So there's been a lot of death
• 43:35
  out there, but the idea, you know, that you who were made to
• 43:42
  be immortal now could die, in other words, your immortality
• 43:49
  has been taken away from you. You know, That very thought, of
• 43:54
  course, is going to come right into only one creature, human.
• 44:00
  Beings, they're going to know. Wow, it could all be over here.
• 44:05
  Now, that doesn't mean that God condemned all, you know, beings
• 44:12
  prior to the coming of Christ to die.
• 44:15
  You know, essentially what we hold is that they went to and in
• 44:20
  the Old Testament they went to the domain of shit, all the
• 44:24
  realm of the dead, and there they were to await the coming of
• 44:29
  the Messiah and liberation from death.
• 44:32
  So that certainly begins to be a reality in the Old Testament,
• 44:37
  starting with proto Isaiah, with first Isaiah, you know, and then
• 44:42
  certainly we can see it again and again and again manifest not
• 44:46
  only in the book of Wisdom and Maccabees, etcetera, but we see
• 44:49
  it in various other biblical. Texts but the idea of original
• 44:53
  sin entering the world with this choice to sin, a choice of
• 44:57
  disobedience, a lack of trust really of the Father of the of
• 45:00
  the creator of God by our parents right and that we all
• 45:05
  now have this wound. And then there's the you know
• 45:08
  the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.
• 45:10
  Mary was conceived without sin and we could that's a whole
• 45:14
  other conversation we're not going to get into today
• 45:15
  necessarily, but but I think the question here is for our parents
• 45:20
  that those in thirst and sold Homo sapiens who are fully made
• 45:24
  in the image and likeness of God, who somehow at least the
• 45:28
  first ones didn't have original sin.
• 45:31
  The Saint of it and then they got it by their choice and by
• 45:36
  that, you know then we all got it.
• 45:38
  How does that, you know, was it just two people?
• 45:41
  Was it maybe the thousands that were on the earth and they all
• 45:44
  decided together to choose to sin?
• 45:46
  What's the theory on that? Is there a theory on?
• 45:48
  That yeah, well, you know, in in that book, why only us, Berwick
• 45:52
  and Chomsky believe it comes down to essentially a single, a
• 45:57
  member or two single members who are mates who committed, oh,
• 46:02
  didn't they don't say committed that they were the ones that to
• 46:06
  to receive the first soul. So it it would be two
• 46:10
  individuals that were somehow, you know, mated together or a
• 46:16
  single individual, you know, in the species.
• 46:20
  That's the origin of what we call today language,
• 46:25
  syntactically significant language, mathematics, etcetera.
• 46:29
  So it seems to come down to a single pair of ancestors and
• 46:34
  that's that's MIT press, right? I mean, that's not the Bible.
• 46:38
  Does that correspond with the Bible?
• 46:40
  Yes, it does very much corresponds with the Bible.
• 46:43
  Now the the fate of that insult original originally insult
• 46:49
  couple what happened there, the science can't tell you, you know
• 46:53
  what happened, but the Bible says here's why, you know, human
• 46:59
  beings, even though they had this immortal soul made in the
• 47:01
  image of likeness of God. Here is why we're out there
• 47:06
  killing one another. We're out there doing all these
• 47:09
  terrible lies and cheating and stealing dark activities and
• 47:13
  even, you know, worshipping the very demonic enemy of God
• 47:18
  himself. You know some this happens
• 47:21
  sometimes. You know, why is this happening?
• 47:25
  Because someone first along the lines.
• 47:30
  And of course the Bible is saying our first parents were
• 47:33
  the ones that got the whole thing started by saying I'd
• 47:37
  rather be God myself than be subservient to 1.
• 47:41
  And of course, you can be sure that, by the way, there's no
• 47:45
  question in my mind that the evil spirit exists, that Satan
• 47:49
  exists. And I think there's a ton of
• 47:51
  evidence for that that's in another book of mine called
• 47:53
  Christ versus Satan. But the main thing right now is,
• 47:57
  you know, I'm absolutely convinced the moment God insult
• 48:01
  our first insult ancestors, let's call them insult Adam and
• 48:06
  Eve, the moment he did that right at their elbow was the
• 48:10
  evil spirit. I think the serpent image in
• 48:14
  Genesis is almost factual. And I'm sure if that were the
• 48:21
  case, that that biblical image is pretty good.
• 48:24
  It's pretty solid. You know, what would he tempt
• 48:27
  him with? Don't you want to be like God
• 48:30
  yourself? Well, the tragedy is we were
• 48:32
  made in the image of God already, but it was we wanted to
• 48:36
  be equal to better than the boss.
• 48:41
  You know it's the ultimate sin of pride, right?
• 48:43
  Absolutely. And it's the reason the angels
• 48:45
  fell, because they I will not serve non Serbian.
• 48:48
  Serbian. Exactly.
• 48:50
  What a tragedy, father, and here we are, you know, 1000 years.
• 48:56
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  your order. We're going to get to the
• 50:00
  existing God. One more question, the
• 50:01
  dinosaurs. This is very controversial among
• 50:05
  some in the evangelical space and and some in the Catholic
• 50:07
  space. There was some recent podcasting
• 50:10
  done by some friends of mine on on dinosaurs etcetera.
• 50:13
  Did the dinosaurs? Did the insoled human being come
• 50:17
  after the dinosaurs? Oh yeah, yeah.
• 50:19
  So we were. And you think that's part of
• 50:20
  God's Providence so that we wouldn't be all demolished by
• 50:23
  them? Yeah, I I basically think that
• 50:25
  the dinosaurs, you know, we're there, it's part of the
• 50:28
  evolutionary process and there's very good reasons why they
• 50:32
  developed as they did. This of course be millions of
• 50:35
  years ago. We're kind of in the hundreds of
• 50:37
  thousands of years ago human beings.
• 50:39
  So we're not quite in the same category there, but the
• 50:43
  dinosaurs do come way before human beings do.
• 50:46
  But we think that it's, you know, probably about, well, it's
• 50:52
  hard to say exactly when this asteroid hit the Earth, but it
• 50:55
  seems like there was a cataclysmic asteroid, very large
• 50:59
  asteroid that did hit the Earth just prior to the the
• 51:05
  disappearance of the dinosaurs. It did alter the climate across
• 51:11
  the whole planet. And when it did so, wet places
• 51:14
  became dry places, hot places became cold places.
• 51:18
  You know, there definitely was huge atmospheric changes, and of
• 51:25
  course, the dinosaurs eventually disappeared, but it paved the
• 51:29
  way for much more sophisticated mammalian species to develop in
• 51:34
  relative peace from these gargantuan creatures and
• 51:38
  crushing everything and. My my sons have a we have some
• 51:42
  dinosaur books that read about them in size comparison to a
• 51:45
  tiger or a lion and the Tyrannosaurus Rex.
• 51:48
  Can you know, Savage, if humans existed at the time of these
• 51:52
  animals we would make, we would not be here, you know, is, is
• 51:55
  the idea OK? And then and then another part
• 51:58
  of the account in the Old Testament, the flood.
• 52:01
  Yeah. And you know, is this an
• 52:04
  allegory? Was there a flood?
• 52:06
  There was a flood. Did it, was it to let's try to
• 52:10
  clean, do a clean slate here 'cause people have gotten so
• 52:13
  demonic? What was going on with the
• 52:15
  flood? Well, first, you know, from the
• 52:17
  biblical point of view, the flood is God's, you know,
• 52:23
  wanting to start over. And that might well have been
• 52:27
  the reason for the flood. But from a naturalistic and a
• 52:31
  geophysical point of view, there was a flood.
• 52:35
  The what? Year was this roughly?
• 52:36
  About 6000 years ago, so probably in the neighborhood of
• 52:40
  4000 to 5000 BC. So there had theoretically been
• 52:44
  55,000 years of insold human beings on the earth before the
• 52:49
  flood according to our best some of our best guesses of science.
• 52:53
  Yeah, that's correct. And the flood was certainly in
• 52:57
  that Mesopotamian region, and it certainly would have included
• 53:02
  what today we call the Holy Land.
• 53:04
  It would certainly have included Iran, Iraq and so forth.
• 53:08
  It would have been a huge catastrophic flood.
• 53:11
  And the fact is, is we can see it, you know, in the layering.
• 53:16
  What, you know, when I was calling stratigraphy earlier,
• 53:18
  you can see it in the layering of the earth at somewhere in
• 53:22
  that neighborhood, maybe about 4000 BC, somewhere in there,
• 53:27
  maybe 5000 BC. You can see the layering there
• 53:30
  pretty clearly. Now, did this etch its way into
• 53:33
  the mind of human beings? It's in every single epic,
• 53:37
  ancient epic that we have. Across the world.
• 53:40
  Across the board. So was it, but was it a regional
• 53:43
  flood you're saying just in Mesopotamia?
• 53:44
  Or was it a world global flood? Well, it looks like it was a
• 53:48
  regional one, and the evidence certainly suggests that from a
• 53:53
  geophysical point of view. But certainly it was a huge
• 53:57
  region occupying A considerable part of the Middle East.
• 54:02
  So when you look at that, I mean, how did it get into Alger
• 54:05
  Hasis? How did it get into Gilgamesh?
• 54:08
  How did it get to a Numa Elish? I mean, they were all Mr. coming
• 54:12
  from different, you know, parts. And what do they all have in
• 54:14
  common? Common a flood, a catastrophic
• 54:18
  flood that wiped out everything. So I think there's very good
• 54:22
  evidence for it. I think, you know, the biblical
• 54:25
  interpretation. I mean, obviously if you read
• 54:28
  the Atra Hasis or a new male leash, you know, you're going to
• 54:30
  get a very different viewpoint, right?
• 54:33
  Of of or even Gilgamesh. Why, why did the flood happen?
• 54:37
  Well, there's this dispute between the gods and of course,
• 54:41
  the Atra Hasis, you know. Well, then human beings were too
• 54:44
  noisy and too, you know, and difficult to contend with.
• 54:49
  So the gods got sick and tired of them and wiped them out.
• 54:53
  Now the biblical author, of course, he's giving sacred
• 54:56
  truths necessary for salvation. The biblical No, that's not the
• 55:00
  reason God wasn't sick and tired of our noisiness.
• 55:04
  He knew very well that we would be noisy when he created us.
• 55:08
  So what is the whole point? The point is we became evil.
• 55:13
  And here's the fundamental difference between the Bible and
• 55:16
  the rival myths, the idea of moral evil, that is to say an
• 55:22
  evil principle, and of course our moral cooperation with
• 55:28
  something that's evil, that basically becomes dark.
• 55:32
  It becomes destructive not only of the people around us, it is
• 55:38
  destructive of ourselves and it's destructive of our
• 55:41
  transcendent spiritual lives, and it separates us from God.
• 55:45
  That's the Bible. That's not in any rival epic.
• 55:50
  Now when you get to that point, you have to say, wow, how could
• 55:54
  the biblical author knows only inspiration?
• 55:57
  I'm telling you, if you look at the whole Middle East, there's
• 56:00
  only one group of revealed scriptures that has anything
• 56:04
  like that, our Old Testament. Everything else is basically the
• 56:08
  same thing. The gods got sick and tired of
• 56:11
  dealing with human beings. They were either dumb or noisy
• 56:15
  or, you know, you know, Rapskelius or whatever it was,
• 56:19
  they didn't like it, and they just got rid of human beings.
• 56:22
  It was, you know, a split decision, kind of a deal.
• 56:25
  And the gods were irritating. Is, is there evidence of a
• 56:30
  particularly depraved population at that time in the Mesopotamia
• 56:34
  area? I asked this because, you know,
• 56:36
  looking at parts of the world today and even the United
• 56:38
  States, you know, or abortion rate, you know, it's so sky high
• 56:41
  looking at, you know, the Holocaust, you know, in mid 20th
• 56:45
  century in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and, and the, the
• 56:49
  mass amounts of destruction that it wrought.
• 56:51
  I mean, we see lots of evils. This is just in the last
• 56:55
  century, lots of evils perpetuated by modern man post
• 56:59
  flood theoretically here. So like this idea that God sent
• 57:03
  a flood potentially to kind of do a clean slate move.
• 57:07
  How bad were they? Well.
• 57:09
  Compared. To today in conjunction with
• 57:13
  abortion, because I have to tell you one of the things that is so
• 57:19
  pernicious according to the Old Testament, right, it just can't
• 57:23
  be tolerated as human sacrifice, particularly infanticide, you
• 57:29
  know, feeding your, your baby child to, you know, this God,
• 57:35
  you know, Moloch, you know, through the mouth of Moloch into
• 57:38
  a fire in order to get something that you need.
• 57:41
  And this is an actually documented thing that this was
• 57:44
  done. This is going.
• 57:45
  This kind of human sacrifice, yeah.
• 57:47
  Human and infanticide, you know, infant sacrifice is going on all
• 57:51
  over the place. And of course you can see in the
• 57:53
  Bible it is roundly condemned again and again and again by
• 57:58
  Moses, who basically, you know, says if you guys do anything
• 58:02
  like this, you know, anathema sit right here.
• 58:05
  There's there's no room for you in the Kingdom of of God.
• 58:10
  So the idea is pretty clear. And again, we see in the Jewish
• 58:14
  scriptures there, in the Old Testament scriptures, we can see
• 58:18
  that there's already this break with the rest of the Middle
• 58:22
  Eastern culture, break with the religious ambience in the
• 58:26
  environment, and suddenly the strong condemnation.
• 58:30
  Now people say, well, wait, in the book of Judges, this guy
• 58:33
  comes out of his tent and he says, you know, hey, the Lord,
• 58:37
  you know, if you give me victory over this group of people, I'm
• 58:41
  going to go ahead and do a human sacrifice of whoever walks
• 58:45
  through my tent first. And of course, he said what, you
• 58:49
  mean he was a judge of Israel. Yes, he was.
• 58:53
  And he did he make that promise? Yes, he did.
• 58:55
  And who comes through the tent? His daughter, his one and only
• 58:59
  daughter. And so the moral of the story is
• 59:02
  if you take on these Pagan customs which have been
• 59:05
  explicitly condemned in Torah, well, you can expect that you
• 59:10
  will lose the most precious thing you have in your entire
• 59:13
  life. And you if you do this
• 59:15
  ridiculous activity, you're going to get the ridiculous and
• 59:19
  horrible result. And that the more or lesson is
• 59:22
  don't look at how the pagans are doing things.
• 59:26
  You have the law, you follow it. But are we more moral today than
• 59:31
  those pre for the flood? They're well, let's put it this
• 59:34
  way, and there is a significantly more moral group
• 59:40
  of people. And is that because of the the?
• 59:44
  Christianity. And Judeo the Judaism.
• 59:48
  Yes, and it's exactly. That so that and on a timeline
• 59:52
  was Judaism really came after the flood was Judaism practice.
• 59:56
  So. So you have Judaism.
• 59:58
  How many years after the flood? Well, I mean basically our
• 1:00:01
  patriarchs like Abraham was 1800.
• 1:00:06
  BC Moses where you get the that's the covenant at Mount
• 1:00:10
  Sinai, that's the exodus, that's the moment of the Jewish people.
• 1:00:15
  Now the paychearch are the ancestors of the Jewish people,
• 1:00:18
  but the Jewish people pairs say are in 1200 BC when Moses is on
• 1:00:24
  Mount Sinai and you know, gets the covenant from God after the
• 1:00:28
  Exodus. So that's 1200 BC.
• 1:00:31
  Well, if the if the flood is between 4000 and 5000 BC, 1200
• 1:00:36
  BC is considerably and of course even the patriarchs 8 of
• 1:00:40
  Abraham's 1800 BC, then you can pretty much so.
• 1:00:43
  Somehow Noah had the law of God written on his heart, as we all
• 1:00:46
  do, and he was, you know, and part of this story.
• 1:00:49
  How much of his allegorical, how much of it is, you know,
• 1:00:53
  exactly, You know, literal as it's as it's written.
• 1:00:56
  But the idea is there were some and sold, you know, there's some
• 1:01:01
  human beings that were in their hearts upright before God, many
• 1:01:06
  who were not practicing infant sacrifice, you know, paganism
• 1:01:09
  like in horrific ways, a lot of destruction, destructiveness.
• 1:01:13
  And then God allowed, permitted. Did he send it?
• 1:01:16
  Did he permit it? Either way, a flood happened.
• 1:01:19
  There was a bit of a clean slate.
• 1:01:20
  And then in a few thousand years later, you have the introduction
• 1:01:23
  of Judaism. That is correct.
• 1:01:25
  And basically as Judaism grows, this group of what I'm going to
• 1:01:30
  call, you know, moral people who've not only, you know,
• 1:01:35
  received the the revelation of Moses, but decided to live
• 1:01:39
  according to the revelation of Moses.
• 1:01:40
  And then an even larger group after Jesus, who not only
• 1:01:44
  received the revelation and the Church of Jesus, but lived
• 1:01:48
  according to the revelation of Jesus and wanted to follow him.
• 1:01:51
  That group has been getting larger and larger and larger.
• 1:01:54
  Now you say, well, today, you know, we could see that there
• 1:01:58
  are a lot of people out there, there who certainly seem to be
• 1:02:02
  diverging from, you know, that that group of people.
• 1:02:07
  I mean, didn't you just say that 42% of our young people will
• 1:02:12
  leave the church unless they get some evidence of God and Jesus
• 1:02:17
  from science? And I said, yes, that's that,
• 1:02:18
  That's true. But there is evidence, really,
• 1:02:23
  you know, truly excellent evidence for God, for Jesus, for
• 1:02:28
  an afterlife from contemporary science.
• 1:02:30
  And that melds very well with Christianity.
• 1:02:34
  And of course, if you put it together, if we give our young
• 1:02:38
  people that evidence, we give them a fighting chance to belong
• 1:02:43
  and to decide to follow, you know, the teaching of Jesus
• 1:02:46
  without any fear that somehow they have to break with science
• 1:02:51
  or they have to break with what they consider to be firmly
• 1:02:54
  established rational evidence. Right now.
• 1:02:57
  They can see not only that, that faith and science are not
• 1:03:00
  contradictory. Faith and science are
• 1:03:01
  complimentary. They're mutually corroborative.
• 1:03:05
  And that if we can get the word out and do that, we are going to
• 1:03:10
  have, I think, a very strong group of people going forward.
• 1:03:16
  So people always say, do you think we're in the end times?
• 1:03:18
  I don't know. I mean, let's make sure that we
• 1:03:22
  do everything we can to keep our young people, you know,
• 1:03:25
  believing not only in God, but believing in Jesus and the
• 1:03:28
  church. Let's get that higher level
• 1:03:31
  moral order of people as big and as strong as we can through the
• 1:03:35
  complementarity of faith and science.
• 1:03:37
  And of course, from teaching them, you know, the the real
• 1:03:41
  significance of of religion in Jesus's moral teaching for both
• 1:03:46
  emotional health and physical health and marital health and
• 1:03:49
  relational health and. Above all, spiritual health.
• 1:03:53
  It's certainly the end times in terms we're all going to die,
• 1:03:56
  some sooner than others and we don't know when exactly, but
• 1:03:59
  it's our individual end time. And that's really the big, the
• 1:04:02
  big thing that matters. What are we going to do with the
• 1:04:04
  life we have and what happens after our death?
• 1:04:05
  OK, so you just mentioned the truth about God's existence and
• 1:04:10
  the existence of Christ, who Christ says he is.
• 1:04:14
  We obviously we need to have you back, Father Spitzer, cuz this
• 1:04:17
  is, there's so much stuff here and I spent a lot of time on the
• 1:04:19
  dinosaurs and the flood. But all right.
• 1:04:22
  And I have a ton more questions on that.
• 1:04:24
  But we're gonna go to existence of God.
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  What is the best evidence for the unbeliever or the skeptic on
• 1:05:27
  the existence of God? All right, well, you can break
• 1:05:30
  it down into four areas, one area today.
• 1:05:34
  And by the way, again, if I could just talk about my book
• 1:05:38
  science that please do. If you get that book science
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  that there are septic God Ignatius Press, just take a look
• 1:05:44
  at it and just read through that evidence.
• 1:05:47
  Number one, those near death experiences, we have a lot of
• 1:05:51
  medical studies of near death experiences where you know, we
• 1:05:54
  can see that people's consciousness lives on after
• 1:05:58
  their physical body is what we call clinically dead.
• 1:06:02
  Their consciousness lives on after their physical body is
• 1:06:05
  clinically dead. Does this mean the consciousness
• 1:06:08
  is not tied necessarily to the brain?
• 1:06:11
  That is correct. And that is so prolific now.
• 1:06:13
  The New York Academy of Sciences last year in 2022 actually came
• 1:06:18
  out with a statement and their proceedings where they basically
• 1:06:22
  said there is a very credible possibility that your
• 1:06:25
  consciousness will survive your bodily death based solely on
• 1:06:29
  peer reviewed medical studies of near death experiences, terminal
• 1:06:34
  lucidity and intelligence in hydrocephalic patients.
• 1:06:38
  It's been overwhelming. Now, not only that, but there's
• 1:06:41
  actually an afterlife that is reported too, not just, you
• 1:06:46
  know, like we have a Bryant blind kid, Bradley Burroughs,
• 1:06:49
  He's 16 years old, right? And by the way, 81% of blind
• 1:06:53
  people see for the first time when they're clinically dead.
• 1:06:57
  So they're sitting there on the operating table, flat EEG.
• 1:07:01
  That means no electrical activity in the brain, fixed and
• 1:07:04
  dilated pupils, no gag reflexes. And suddenly, for the first
• 1:07:08
  time, 81% of blind people start seeing.
• 1:07:11
  Wow. Consciousness can't be located
• 1:07:13
  in the physical body because there was, of course, their eyes
• 1:07:17
  were in some sense defective and they couldn't see.
• 1:07:20
  And believe me, I know what blindness is all about.
• 1:07:22
  So the main thing is, OK, what do we do here with Bradley
• 1:07:26
  Burroughs? He's 16 years old.
• 1:07:27
  He's been blind from birth. He suddenly he has a heart
• 1:07:30
  attack. He he's, you know, zooms outside
• 1:07:33
  of the hospital. He doesn't stay in the operating
• 1:07:34
  room. He goes right outside the
• 1:07:36
  hospital and he's elevated right at the top of the hospital
• 1:07:39
  outside looking down. And he says, you know, I saw
• 1:07:42
  snow for the first time in my life.
• 1:07:44
  And then I saw these tracks that were grooved into the snow.
• 1:07:48
  I knew they had to be tram tracks because of course
• 1:07:51
  they're, they're so parallel. So I said, oh, wow, you know,
• 1:07:54
  train tracks in the snow. And then of course, he said, I
• 1:07:57
  saw a Grove of trees in the distance there.
• 1:07:59
  And then suddenly a tram came by.
• 1:08:02
  Could that have just been his imagination there?
• 1:08:03
  Impossible. From what people have told him
• 1:08:05
  about what those things look like, yes.
• 1:08:06
  But I'm playing the skeptic here.
• 1:08:08
  At first, yeah. I mean, how could you report
• 1:08:10
  though? Oh, on the back of that train
• 1:08:12
  there's a sign with an arrow pointing to the right and that
• 1:08:15
  the train went right down that this corridor where the tracks
• 1:08:19
  were and went into the Grove of trees that was in in the
• 1:08:22
  distance. So he saw the actual train
• 1:08:24
  outside. Yeah, and trains have.
• 1:08:26
  Not his physical eyes, his soul. Yeah, his soul, not his physical
• 1:08:30
  eyes, his soul, because he doesn't have even a physical
• 1:08:33
  image in his brain, a visual image in his brain that he could
• 1:08:36
  hallucinate. But he saw all of this.
• 1:08:38
  He described the train, the tram perfectly, the sign on the back
• 1:08:41
  of the tram, what the tram did that it went to the right, into
• 1:08:44
  the Grove of trees, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:08:46
  How could you possibly recount that, Florida State if you
• 1:08:50
  hadn't seen it? But of course, this, it wasn't
• 1:08:52
  in the operating room where his physical body was.
• 1:08:55
  It was outside the hospital, up and above the hospital.
• 1:08:58
  So, and by the way, we have really literally thousands of
• 1:09:02
  these validated cases that we call veridical data for it.
• 1:09:06
  It's so prolific. The New York Academy of
• 1:09:08
  Scientists of Scientists, excuse me, basically said, yeah,
• 1:09:12
  there's a very credible possibility that your your
• 1:09:15
  consciousness will survive your bodily death.
• 1:09:17
  So that's one set of studies I presented in chapters four and
• 1:09:21
  five of my book Science of Dorset.
• 1:09:23
  Then there's a whole bunch of studies that are based on new
• 1:09:25
  physical evidence. You know, when I debated Stephen
• 1:09:28
  Hawking and Lennar Mulatinov and and Deepak Chopra on the Larry
• 1:09:31
  King Show in 2010, Stephen Hawking was pretty much at the
• 1:09:35
  point of not really believing in God.
• 1:09:38
  I would say right in that area of agnostic to atheist, at least
• 1:09:42
  on the show in 2018. He switched completely in 2018.
• 1:09:49
  He writes an article for the Journal of High Energy Physics.
• 1:09:52
  His last article that he wrote called A smooth exit from
• 1:09:56
  eternal inflation. Just emphasize the eternal
• 1:09:59
  there. The main thing there is he's
• 1:10:01
  been looking at Lisa and Lyco, right?
• 1:10:03
  The two gravitational wave detectors that are out there
• 1:10:06
  with his partner Thomas, her talk.
• 1:10:08
  And essentially what they determined is that our universe
• 1:10:11
  could never have, you know, arisen, you know, never could
• 1:10:17
  have originated from what we call a multiverse, an infinite
• 1:10:22
  multiverse with eternal inflation.
• 1:10:24
  OK, explain what that means for those listening an infinite
• 1:10:28
  multiverse. With eternal inflation.
• 1:10:30
  With eternal inflation, we're not talking about crypto right
• 1:10:34
  now. What are we?
• 1:10:35
  Bring it down briefly for us here.
• 1:10:37
  Absolutely. I mean, a multiverse is like a
• 1:10:39
  mega universe, and that mega universe is kind of coughing out
• 1:10:43
  all kinds of little bubble universes, Trillions upon
• 1:10:46
  trillions upon trillions of these bubble universes, one of
• 1:10:48
  which is our own. Now of course this was a a
• 1:10:51
  theory that was. And The Big Bang originated the
• 1:10:54
  whole shebang. No, no, The Big Bang is within
• 1:10:57
  it, our little bubble. Oh, excuse me, within the OK the
• 1:11:00
  multiverse originates with. Well, the multiverse, it could
• 1:11:04
  have gone back eternally in time.
• 1:11:06
  I see. Hence eternal inflation.
• 1:11:08
  So that was a thought. But all of a sudden it became
• 1:11:12
  untenable scientifically that you could have an eternal
• 1:11:15
  multiverse power by eternal inflation.
• 1:11:18
  There's a whole lot of reasons for this, but it they're
• 1:11:20
  elucidated by Hawking and Hertog in this the Seminole article.
• 1:11:24
  Now what the main thing to remember there is, is that if
• 1:11:29
  Hawking and Hertog are correct, and other physics too that are
• 1:11:33
  joining in there, and you know, a variety of other reasons too
• 1:11:37
  are correct, then no multiverse could be eternal.
• 1:11:41
  In other words, as Hawking says, even you know a multiverse would
• 1:11:45
  have to have a beginning. It could not have originated
• 1:11:50
  from eternally inflating condition for very good
• 1:11:53
  scientific reasons. Now there's one thing we know
• 1:11:56
  about a beginning. If let's say a multiverse has a
• 1:11:59
  beginning or physical reality itself, whatever you configure
• 1:12:02
  it as, you know higher dimensional space universe, if
• 1:12:05
  that had to have a beginning and the evidence now shows
• 1:12:08
  scientific, scientific evidence now shows that would have to
• 1:12:10
  have a beginning. If physical reality had a
• 1:12:13
  beginning, One thing is sure, prior to the beginning, physical
• 1:12:18
  reality did not exist. Prior to the beginning, physical
• 1:12:23
  reality would have to be nothing.
• 1:12:26
  Now there's one thing we know about nothing, it's nothing and
• 1:12:29
  it can only do nothing because it's nothing.
• 1:12:33
  Now if that's the case, then when prior to the beginning, the
• 1:12:38
  when the when physical reality would have had to have been
• 1:12:41
  nothing. Physical reality itself could
• 1:12:44
  never have moved itself from nothing to something, because
• 1:12:49
  the only thing it could do when it was nothing was nothing.
• 1:12:54
  Therefore, something else, something that transcends
• 1:13:00
  physical reality, something that transcends space-time asymmetry,
• 1:13:05
  physical space-time asymmetry, something completely transcended
• 1:13:09
  with the creative power to create out of nothing ex nihilo,
• 1:13:15
  would have had to have done it. Spirit.
• 1:13:18
  Well, we could call it spirit, we could call it a creative
• 1:13:22
  power, which is a spiritual creative power, a transcendent
• 1:13:26
  creative power. But it ain't physical, that's
• 1:13:30
  for sure. It's not part of our universe,
• 1:13:33
  that's for sure. And it's probably there for a
• 1:13:37
  transcendent or spiritual creative power.
• 1:13:41
  That's exactly right. Sounds kind of like God to me.
• 1:13:45
  And so this, you know, all of a sudden we know, as I just said,
• 1:13:50
  why are most young scientists believers in God?
• 1:13:54
  They're reading, I mean, it's not just Stephen Hawking and
• 1:13:58
  Thomas Hurt talk. It's now becoming a consensus
• 1:14:01
  point that the, you know the, the, the likelihood, you know
• 1:14:05
  that the string theory landscape, the multiverse,
• 1:14:08
  etcetera, all of it's going to have to have a beginning.
• 1:14:10
  I've always found it so peculiar about atheism.
• 1:14:14
  I've never, I've never been able to in a way wrap my mind around
• 1:14:18
  it because it seems like it takes more faith to be an
• 1:14:20
  atheist. That everything could come from
• 1:14:23
  nothing and but nothing can't be God or a spirit.
• 1:14:26
  Our creative power has to be truly nothing.
• 1:14:28
  It seems like that takes more faith and more irrationality,
• 1:14:31
  quite frankly, than any religion.
• 1:14:33
  Oh yeah, If you, if you can show actual evidence that you have to
• 1:14:37
  have a beginning of physical reality, then there's no
• 1:14:40
  question it would take a zillion times more faith to believe that
• 1:14:46
  something could just pop out of nothing, right?
• 1:14:50
  You know, you know, you know when the only thing nothing can
• 1:14:53
  do is nothing, you know, than to believe that certainly there's
• 1:14:57
  some transcendent spiritual, creative power that did it.
• 1:15:01
  I mean today, honestly, to try and get out of the evidence for
• 1:15:04
  a beginning, you have to do these.
• 1:15:06
  Backflips, which are really. So how do we connect the
• 1:15:10
  evidence for a beginning to this God spirit thing?
• 1:15:14
  You know, and that you said earlier, it's the majority of
• 1:15:17
  scientists and medical professionals who believe in,
• 1:15:21
  they don't necessarily have to say God, but some sort of a
• 1:15:23
  divine power, creative power, I think was the term you used.
• 1:15:26
  OK, What's the evidence that that God is the Trinity is the
• 1:15:32
  Trinity? Well is the creator certainly
• 1:15:36
  would have to be the creator of this thing because something has
• 1:15:38
  to come from everything has to come from something.
• 1:15:40
  And this is this would be the something.
• 1:15:41
  So he is they are it is the creator.
• 1:15:45
  OK, the Christian doctrine on the Trinity, and we've got 10
• 1:15:48
  minutes for this live Father. All right, I'm.
• 1:15:51
  Going to respect respect your time and we want you back in to
• 1:15:53
  do more of this. But now we've got Father, Son,
• 1:15:56
  Holy Spirit, and the Son is Jesus Christ 2000 years ago
• 1:15:59
  enters the world as a baby. Right now on the marker, OK,
• 1:16:02
  well, first of all, you can't prove the Trinity
• 1:16:04
  scientifically, but you can prove a creative power
• 1:16:08
  scientifically. So there's a that's the first
• 1:16:11
  thing. And of course there, here's the
• 1:16:14
  the difficulty with the Trinity, you have to be very careful
• 1:16:17
  about how you're looking at the Trinity.
• 1:16:18
  But I'll just put it this way. In every metaphysical proof for
• 1:16:22
  the existence of God, you know you can only have one
• 1:16:25
  unrestricted entity, right? Only one infinite entity.
• 1:16:30
  Why is that? And by the way, this goes all
• 1:16:32
  the way back to Plato and Aristotle.
• 1:16:34
  They knew just as much as we do in our post scientific age,
• 1:16:37
  right? We know, you know very clearly
• 1:16:40
  you can only have one Infinity. Think about it.
• 1:16:43
  Let's suppose you had Infinity #1 and Infinity #2.
• 1:16:47
  Well, there'd have to be a difference between Infinity 1
• 1:16:50
  and Infinity 2. Now of course you if you said
• 1:16:54
  there were no difference between Infinity 1 and Infinity 2,
• 1:16:58
  there's absolutely no difference between them.
• 1:16:59
  They'd be the self same entity. And if they were the self same
• 1:17:02
  entity, they'd be one and only one.
• 1:17:05
  So if you're going to have two, you have to have a difference
• 1:17:07
  between them. Now think about this.
• 1:17:09
  It's just the old Platonic argument, right?
• 1:17:11
  If let's suppose then that one Infinity has something or is
• 1:17:17
  something or is somewhere or is in another dimension that the
• 1:17:23
  other one was not Get it? So of course the other one's not
• 1:17:30
  in at this dimension. It's not in this particular.
• 1:17:34
  It doesn't have this thing. Obviously it's finite in as much
• 1:17:39
  as it does not have an activity, a power of dimension that the
• 1:17:45
  other one does. It's finite.
• 1:17:47
  And that means that that second Infinity would always have to be
• 1:17:51
  a finite Infinity. But a finite Infinity is a
• 1:17:54
  contradiction, which is a really bad no no.
• 1:17:57
  So is this evidence for the oneness of God?
• 1:17:59
  Yes, so God you, you can only have one infinite power.
• 1:18:03
  So let's that's the first. When we talk about the Trinity,
• 1:18:07
  the first thing we have to say is how many infinite powers do
• 1:18:11
  you have? One and only one and that can be
• 1:18:16
  proven. So we have one Godhead.
• 1:18:19
  Infinite Godhead is what we call one infinite nature and there
• 1:18:24
  can only be one infinite nature. Now you say, well, how is it
• 1:18:29
  that you have three persons? OK, well, let's take this
• 1:18:33
  bottle. I'm, I'm going to talk about the
• 1:18:37
  what's called self consciousness.
• 1:18:38
  I'm aware of this bottle, but I'm also aware of being aware of
• 1:18:44
  the bottle. And not only that, I'm aware of
• 1:18:49
  my being aware of my awareness of the bottle.
• 1:18:52
  If you see what I'm saying, I can do a triple.
• 1:18:55
  Can you do a quadruple? Yeah, maybe.
• 1:18:58
  It may be possible. I don't know if I can do it, but
• 1:19:01
  I know I do the triple. I know I'm aware of being aware
• 1:19:06
  of myself. So in that sense, I get my own
• 1:19:12
  universe, you get your own universe.
• 1:19:15
  But think about. That for just a moment, that has
• 1:19:18
  to be a genuinely spiritual power.
• 1:19:20
  We're talking about us getting ourselves, getting ourselves.
• 1:19:25
  Now just think about a dog, and the dog is chasing its tail.
• 1:19:29
  And of course, it's not just that the dog catches its tail.
• 1:19:33
  The dog is literally swallowing itself.
• 1:19:35
  Swallowing itself. Now you can't do that except by
• 1:19:40
  travelling at an infinite velocity.
• 1:19:43
  And if you travel in an infinite velocity, you're transcending
• 1:19:46
  every physical, every possible physical process, every possible
• 1:19:52
  physical structure. So there's no question we have
• 1:19:55
  some spiritual capacity in US that's demonstrable just by our
• 1:20:00
  own self consciousness, our self-awareness.
• 1:20:02
  Now let's take that notion of self-awareness.
• 1:20:05
  This actual power to get ourselves, getting ourselves so
• 1:20:09
  that we can, as it were, be in two different relative positions
• 1:20:14
  with respect to our self at the same time, or three relative
• 1:20:17
  positions with respect to our self at the same time inside
• 1:20:20
  ourselves, inside ourselves, that we have this capacity to do
• 1:20:24
  this. If that's the case, and we
• 1:20:26
  really just analogize a person of the Trinity to like a self
• 1:20:31
  consciousness, like, you know, a self-conscious power.
• 1:20:36
  So what the the revelation of in in the New Testament, the
• 1:20:41
  revelation of Jesus basically says that, you know, of course
• 1:20:45
  you can only have one infinite power, but you can have three
• 1:20:49
  self consciousnesses making an uncondition, an unconditional
• 1:20:53
  use of that one infinite power. Wow.
• 1:20:57
  So just think of your computer. I like this better than the
• 1:21:00
  Clover and Saint Patrick's Clover.
• 1:21:02
  It's a little. Bit better.
• 1:21:05
  More. Hallucinating for sure anyway.
• 1:21:09
  But anyway, so the the log in the short of it is yeah.
• 1:21:13
  So you, your one, your three self consciousnesses are making
• 1:21:19
  an unconditional use of that one infinite power.
• 1:21:22
  And since it's an infinite power, why not have three self
• 1:21:26
  consciousnesses making an unconditional use?
• 1:21:30
  It's not like you have 3 terminals that are plugged into
• 1:21:32
  the same central processing unit in a computer.
• 1:21:35
  Of course, you know, the more you plug in, the more it
• 1:21:38
  diminishes the capacity of the CPU.
• 1:21:40
  But on the other hand, that's not the case.
• 1:21:43
  With an infinite power, it can supply anything.
• 1:21:46
  Now you say, well, OK, what did Jesus say?
• 1:21:50
  That these three self consciousnesses who are making
• 1:21:53
  use of this one infinite power, this one infinite intellect,
• 1:21:56
  this one infinite intelligence, as it were, what are they doing?
• 1:22:01
  You know, relative to each other, they're in love.
• 1:22:06
  So we say that then the first self consciousness that we call
• 1:22:11
  the Jesus called the Father, that self consciousness loves
• 1:22:15
  the Son. The Son is the beloved, and
• 1:22:19
  that's what Jesus calls himself, ha Agapetos, the beloved one.
• 1:22:24
  In fact, it's so astounding that John, you know, the beloved
• 1:22:28
  disciple, names himself beloved because Jesus named himself
• 1:22:33
  beloved of the Father. So we can just say, OK, the
• 1:22:38
  Father then loves the beloved one, the second self
• 1:22:42
  consciousness. And then the second self
• 1:22:45
  consciousness loves the father back.
• 1:22:49
  So the father is a love it who is then beloved?
• 1:22:53
  The Son, the second self consciousness, is the beloved
• 1:22:57
  one, who now is a lover. So the beloved hyphen lover.
• 1:23:02
  Then you have the Holy Spirit. What's that about?
• 1:23:06
  Well, just like children, right? Children are, you know, loved by
• 1:23:14
  the Father and the Mother. So let's analogize it now to the
• 1:23:18
  Holy Trinity. So the Father and the Son
• 1:23:22
  together in their unity, love the Spirit, and the Spirit, like
• 1:23:29
  a child, receives the love from both of them and gives back the
• 1:23:35
  love to both of them in their unity.
• 1:23:39
  So now we have, as it were, a completeness of a lover and
• 1:23:45
  beloved, and the beloved of the lover and the beloved.
• 1:23:49
  So that's why Thomas Aquinas says, OK, in God you have one
• 1:23:54
  nature, you have three persons, and you have 4 processions.
• 1:24:02
  So the lover loves the beloved, the beloved receives the love
• 1:24:07
  from the lover and gives it back to the lover.
• 1:24:11
  Then the lover and the beloved in their loving union give
• 1:24:15
  themselves to the Holy Spirit. So third procession, the 4th is
• 1:24:20
  the Holy Spirit receives the love of the lover and the
• 1:24:24
  beloved, and he reflects it back like a child who reflects the
• 1:24:30
  love of the unity of the mom and dad back to them.
• 1:24:34
  Now that's we call 4 processions.
• 1:24:37
  Now, of course you're going to say, well, what about the number
• 1:24:40
  two? We have one guy.
• 1:24:41
  We have three persons who have 4%.
• 1:24:43
  What about the number two? Well, as the Christian Church
• 1:24:48
  saw, this pertains to Jesus Christ.
• 1:24:52
  So Jesus Christ has two natures. So in other words, first of all,
• 1:24:58
  who becomes Incarnate? Well, the infinite power of God
• 1:25:03
  doesn't enter into a finite body.
• 1:25:06
  That's a finite infinite. That's a contradiction that
• 1:25:10
  can't happen. And the church from its very
• 1:25:12
  inception knew that that could never happen.
• 1:25:16
  So that's the first thing to notice.
• 1:25:18
  So when we're dealing with the Father, the, the, you know, the,
• 1:25:23
  the, I mean the incarnation, we basically see that it's the
• 1:25:27
  second person, that second self consciousness who's making use
• 1:25:33
  of the one infinite power. That second self consciousness
• 1:25:37
  is what becomes Incarnate. That self consciousness, that
• 1:25:42
  inner universe enters into a finite physical body.
• 1:25:47
  But he doesn't give up a being in his infinite making use of
• 1:25:52
  his infinite power with the Father and the spirit.
• 1:25:55
  So he does both. Now you say, well, how can you
• 1:25:58
  analogize that? Well, like your dreams, right?
• 1:26:02
  Have you ever had this experience where your own self
• 1:26:05
  consciousness, right? So okay, here our consciousness
• 1:26:08
  is here and we're in this material and I know that I'm
• 1:26:12
  talking to you, you're a real entity.
• 1:26:14
  But in my dreams, right? I can also have what I call
• 1:26:18
  dream world. And so my dreams, my
• 1:26:21
  consciousness can enter into a dream, quote UN quote body.
• 1:26:25
  And of course I can be flying around and I can be doing this
• 1:26:29
  and that I could never do in my regular physical body.
• 1:26:32
  But I actually think it's me because it's my self
• 1:26:36
  consciousness that's in my dream body, in my dream world.
• 1:26:41
  Now you say, well, OK, all right, so now how could you, you
• 1:26:46
  know, have both your self consciousness and dream world
• 1:26:49
  and your self consciousness back in your body at the same time?
• 1:26:52
  It's at that one moment, or maybe you're falling or
• 1:26:55
  something from a mountain and you go, oh, this is a dream.
• 1:27:01
  Your self consciousness right there is aware of the real world
• 1:27:06
  and the dream world and which one is which.
• 1:27:09
  Now that's just an analogy. I'm not saying, but I'm trying
• 1:27:12
  to give you the thought. Yeah, a self consciousness can
• 1:27:15
  do that. And so we can basically say
• 1:27:18
  Jesus Christ is one person, one self consciousness, that is, you
• 1:27:25
  know, making use of an infinite nature and a finite nature at
• 1:27:31
  the same time. There's no contradiction in
• 1:27:34
  this. And that's been the teaching of
• 1:27:37
  the church. So you think of it as one God.
• 1:27:40
  That's one infinite power, one Godhead, one infinite nature, 2
• 1:27:46
  natures that are being used by the one self consciousness, the
• 1:27:51
  second self consciousness in the Trinity, the Son, and then three
• 1:27:57
  persons in the Trinity. Right we, we just the, the lover
• 1:28:01
  of the beloved, the beloved of the lover and the beloved of the
• 1:28:06
  lover and the beloved the the spirit.
• 1:28:08
  They are the Trinity, three Persons in the Trinity and forth
• 1:28:14
  4 processions of love in the persons of the Trinity.
• 1:28:19
  And there pretty much is a summary of how you do that
• 1:28:23
  without, you know, making contradictions right and left.
• 1:28:26
  So it's not proper, though, to say that God has a physical
• 1:28:31
  body? No.
• 1:28:32
  God is spirit, yeah, but it is proper to say that the person of
• 1:28:37
  Jesus has human nature. Mm hmm.
• 1:28:41
  Which includes a body. But then why can't you say, well
• 1:28:44
  then God would have a body? Well, because it's the second,
• 1:28:47
  it's the second person. We say that the Son of God has a
• 1:28:51
  body. We don't say that the nature of
• 1:28:54
  God has a body. So right, if you said the nature
• 1:28:57
  of God or the power of God or the one infinite power of God
• 1:29:01
  had a body, you would contradict yourself instantly because the
• 1:29:04
  one infinite power is infinite. And when you know a body, by
• 1:29:07
  definition is, is is finite. So you don't want to make a
• 1:29:10
  finite infinite. So you can't say the one infant
• 1:29:13
  power of God has a body, but you can say that the second self
• 1:29:16
  consciousness, the second person of the Trinity is Incarnate.
• 1:29:22
  Just you know, in a in a finite body, just like I can I have my
• 1:29:26
  second my my self consciousness, excuse me, can be in my dream
• 1:29:30
  world, a body. Okay, so last question for
• 1:29:33
  today, we have to have you back, father.
• 1:29:35
  We should we should do this every week get our get our
• 1:29:38
  YouTube live going. Okay, last question, what this
• 1:29:43
  could be ours and you've written and spoken on this, but what is
• 1:29:46
  the evidence for Christ, Jesus Christ being God?
• 1:29:51
  OK, well, there's boy, it's it's a huge amount of things.
• 1:29:56
  And, and again, if you wouldn't mind just going to my book
• 1:29:59
  Centuries and faith discovering the Bible, just go to the
• 1:30:03
  section on what's the evidence for Jesus's divinity.
• 1:30:07
  I'm just going to break it down into five points.
• 1:30:10
  Number one, of course, is the resurrection of Jesus in glory
• 1:30:14
  and in power, and we can talk about that at another time.
• 1:30:19
  And the historical record of that resolution.
• 1:30:21
  Is not only a historical but a scientific record as well, and
• 1:30:25
  it's a very good record and you can actually prove it from
• 1:30:29
  historical argument because man, if Jesus did not rise from the
• 1:30:32
  dead, there's just no way you would have had a church.
• 1:30:35
  I mean, just take a look at the there's good arguments from NT
• 1:30:39
  Wright and John P Meyer on the two of the best historical
• 1:30:43
  exegetes. But basically what Myron and
• 1:30:45
  writers saying is simply this, the Christian Church defied all
• 1:30:49
  other messianic movements, right?
• 1:30:51
  I mean, basically you've got every like within 200 years, 100
• 1:30:55
  years before Christ, 100 years after you have all these
• 1:30:58
  messianic movements, the Messiah of that movement is killed.
• 1:31:01
  What happens? Even the messianic movement to
• 1:31:04
  John the Baptist and John the Baptist was, you know, there was
• 1:31:07
  a messianic movement around him. Minute he dies, what happens
• 1:31:10
  within like 30 years, Gonzo? I mean, the whole movement is
• 1:31:14
  gone. Christianity, the the Messiah is
• 1:31:17
  humiliated, executed, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:31:21
  And what do we have? We have basically the the
• 1:31:25
  Christian Church within 240 years becomes the official
• 1:31:30
  religion of the Roman Empire, the very empire that was
• 1:31:34
  persecuting it, an exponential increase.
• 1:31:37
  The Messiah dies and you have an exponential increase going on
• 1:31:40
  generation after generation until the Christian Church takes
• 1:31:43
  over the whole Roman Empire. I kid you not.
• 1:31:46
  This is exactly what happens. Byron Wright say, OK, how you
• 1:31:50
  going to do this if Jesus wasn't really risen from the dead, if
• 1:31:53
  he really didn't give us his Holy Spirit and unless those
• 1:31:56
  apostles, those first generations of apostles were
• 1:31:59
  doing miracles in the name of Jesus in front of everybody
• 1:32:05
  according to the Spirit that Jesus gave him.
• 1:32:08
  How why would God the Father? Why would God the Father
• 1:32:12
  basically say, OK, I'm going to allow allow you guys to do these
• 1:32:16
  miracles. You're going to raise the dead,
• 1:32:18
  going to cure the blind, going to do all these things and
• 1:32:21
  you're going to do it by in the name of Jesus.
• 1:32:24
  But Jesus really wasn't who he said he was.
• 1:32:27
  Jesus really wasn't risen as the Christian Church said he was.
• 1:32:30
  Jesus really didn't tell us straight when he said that he
• 1:32:35
  was the exclusive son of the Father.
• 1:32:38
  He didn't tell us straight when he claimed to have to know the
• 1:32:44
  Father and to have the same power as the Father and to know
• 1:32:46
  the Father exactly as the Father knew him.
• 1:32:49
  All right, this, that's just a way of saying I'm divine.
• 1:32:52
  I'm just as divine as the Father.
• 1:32:53
  Jesus Christ didn't have. Well, if Jesus didn't have it
• 1:32:56
  straight and the Christian Church is lying about the
• 1:32:57
  resurrection, would you mind telling me why again and again
• 1:33:02
  and again and again? All of these apostles are out
• 1:33:04
  there in the first generations of the church doing so many
• 1:33:08
  miracles that is causing an exponential increase in the
• 1:33:11
  Christian community after the death and humiliation execution
• 1:33:14
  their Messiah. Are you kidding?
• 1:33:16
  Me, I mean, I think that someone could be listening and say,
• 1:33:20
  well, Islam, Islam, you know, Christians don't believe that
• 1:33:23
  Muhammad was given an inspired book of the, you know, of the
• 1:33:26
  Quran and yet there have been many, you know, Islam has
• 1:33:29
  proliferated. But the yeah, give give us the
• 1:33:32
  distinction. Why that Why that proliferation
• 1:33:35
  of Islam doesn't prove the truth of Muhammad receiving the Quran
• 1:33:40
  from on high and being his prophet versus the proliferation
• 1:33:43
  of Christianity via miracles? And you know, the resurrection
• 1:33:46
  proves that the resurrection actually happened.
• 1:33:48
  Yeah. Well, first two important.
• 1:33:50
  I mean, as you said, yeah, there's a real difference.
• 1:33:51
  First thing is, the Christian Church was persecuted every
• 1:33:55
  single step of the way until the Edict of Milan in 313 AD.
• 1:34:01
  So in other words, the Christian Church exponentially increased
• 1:34:06
  amidst continuous persecution. Islam did not.
• 1:34:09
  Happen. It was not militant is what
• 1:34:10
  you're saying. The early church was not
• 1:34:12
  militant. They were persecuted, they were
• 1:34:14
  killed, they were martyred. But early Islam.
• 1:34:17
  Was militant and was not persecuted, in fact, so you
• 1:34:21
  could make the case, I might say they're, they were the
• 1:34:24
  persecutors, if I can put it that way.
• 1:34:26
  But you know, we, you know, we have to, you know, be generous
• 1:34:30
  in the way we characterize it. But nevertheless, that that's
• 1:34:33
  pretty much the case the the characterization.
• 1:34:36
  The second thing that that really is the case too, is you
• 1:34:39
  look at what's intrinsic to Christianity, namely the primacy
• 1:34:44
  of love. So this is very different from
• 1:34:48
  jihad as the central, you know, credo that conversion through
• 1:34:53
  jihad is, is the central thing. Well, you contrast that to love.
• 1:34:59
  Now, you know, you can say that militancy is going to produce a
• 1:35:04
  lot of exponential increases because of course, if you start
• 1:35:07
  conquering people right and left, you create an atmosphere
• 1:35:10
  of fear right and left, and you push everybody into submission,
• 1:35:14
  or, you know, you get jihad right and so forth and so on.
• 1:35:18
  You know, you get a fatwa on you.
• 1:35:20
  For all intents and purposes. That's one way of proliferating,
• 1:35:24
  right? But it ain't the Christian way
• 1:35:26
  of proliferating. The Christianity does not talk
• 1:35:29
  about jihad. It does not talk about
• 1:35:32
  conversion at all caused by producing a, you know, an
• 1:35:35
  atmosphere of here. If you look at Jesus's teaching,
• 1:35:38
  it's very, very clear, right? Blessed are what we call the
• 1:35:42
  poor in spirit, the humble hearted.
• 1:35:44
  Blessed are the meek, the gentle hearted.
• 1:35:46
  And this is not exactly a warrior, you know, you know,
• 1:35:50
  rah, rah militancy speech. I mean, this is just the
• 1:35:53
  opposite. What did the Romans say about
• 1:35:56
  what Christianity was doing to the Roman Empire?
• 1:35:59
  These guys are so meek and humble and, you know, they're,
• 1:36:02
  they're so forgiving and compassionate that they're
• 1:36:05
  making us weak. We're becoming less of warriors,
• 1:36:09
  right? And of course, Augustine has to
• 1:36:11
  say, hey, wait a minute, it's a different kind of strength.
• 1:36:13
  But it's not the strength that can do this by militancy, by
• 1:36:17
  power, by threats, by fear, etcetera.
• 1:36:22
  No, Christianity's conversion is through love and the necessity
• 1:36:26
  of the miracles in order to make that message of love endurable.
• 1:36:30
  Because you knew a huge chunk of your population, and that would
• 1:36:34
  include you, if you're part of that Christian population, would
• 1:36:37
  be persecuted just in the Colosseum, but in a million
• 1:36:41
  other ways, you would be persecuted.
• 1:36:43
  And by the way, the early Christians, they not only lost
• 1:36:46
  their lives, I mean, prior to that they lost their social
• 1:36:49
  status, their financial status, right?
• 1:36:52
  I mean, they were just truly ripped away from just about
• 1:36:55
  everything. And yet why, why would they have
• 1:36:59
  allowed this to happen? Why would they have done?
• 1:37:03
  Because they were utterly convinced that Christ was risen
• 1:37:06
  from the dead. They were utterly convinced that
• 1:37:09
  the spirit of Christ working in the name of Jesus was performing
• 1:37:12
  miracles right and left. They were utterly convinced that
• 1:37:15
  the that the works of the Christian Church, namely, you
• 1:37:19
  know, the Christian Church became the largest by far
• 1:37:22
  healthcare organization, the largest by far educational
• 1:37:25
  institution, the largest by far public welfare institution, and
• 1:37:29
  still is to this day. If you look at the Catholic
• 1:37:33
  Church overseas, 26% of the healthcare in the, in the world,
• 1:37:36
  look at the Catholic Church still 98,000 elementary schools
• 1:37:41
  of 46,000 secondary schools oversee, you know, thousands,
• 1:37:46
  10s of thousands of orphanages, 10's and thousands of public
• 1:37:50
  welfare distribution centers, 10s of thousands of, of
• 1:37:54
  treatment for marriages and, and widows and so forth.
• 1:37:58
  This one, you look just around the club.
• 1:38:00
  I mean, I mean, Jesus's word that the, the, the idea of
• 1:38:05
  proliferating love and, and proliferating this in the way
• 1:38:09
  that Jesus did it. Don't worry, he'd take care of
• 1:38:13
  it, even though it's counter to every logic of the world that
• 1:38:17
  says use fear, use power, use militancy.
• 1:38:21
  That's the way you're going to get an expansion.
• 1:38:24
  Jesus said, Nope, you trust me, you trust my Holy Spirit, you
• 1:38:28
  trust the miracles, you trust the name of Jesus.
• 1:38:32
  You teach, you trust my teaching, and you'll proliferate
• 1:38:35
  by doing my will. And you will proliferate the
• 1:38:38
  right way toward a world of peace, toward a world of of
• 1:38:42
  genuine concern and compassion, even for the weakest people.
• 1:38:47
  And of course, finally, at the end of the day, right,
• 1:38:50
  whatsoever you do to these least ones of mine, you do to me.
• 1:38:54
  So, you know, our objective then is to see Jesus Christ in the
• 1:39:00
  weakest in the world. Because, as Paul says, when I
• 1:39:04
  grow weaker, Christ grows stronger in me.
• 1:39:09
  Amen. My weakness is my strength.
• 1:39:14
  Beautiful. I think I stopped you at #2 You
• 1:39:18
  had did you have three more proofs for why Jesus you were
• 1:39:22
  referencing your book Father? Absolutely, of course.
• 1:39:25
  If you've got a few more minutes, you want to rattle them
• 1:39:27
  off for us. This is such awesome.
• 1:39:29
  This is so wonderful to hear so. Number one, of course, is the
• 1:39:33
  evidence for the resurrection, the evidence of the early
• 1:39:34
  churches miracles to the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus.
• 1:39:38
  The third thing is, is actually the preaching of Jesus himself.
• 1:39:41
  And you know that that one great, you know, you know, sort
• 1:39:47
  of Seminole statement that he makes to his disciples.
• 1:39:50
  Full power and authority has been given over to me, you know,
• 1:39:54
  by my father. And then he goes on to say, and
• 1:39:56
  no one knows the the Son except the father and no one knows the
• 1:40:00
  Father except the son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal
• 1:40:03
  him. What's Jesus saying there?
• 1:40:05
  I know the Father as the Father knows me.
• 1:40:08
  That word, no, just doesn't mean conceptual.
• 1:40:10
  It literally means that they, they know each other inside out,
• 1:40:15
  as it were, in their very being, in their very hearts.
• 1:40:18
  He is equivalent to the Father. That's what he's saying.
• 1:40:22
  He's declaring himself to be divine.
• 1:40:24
  And there are many other reasons for believing this.
• 1:40:27
  But you know, I'm just going to throw out the Shroud of Turin
• 1:40:30
  here because there's a huge amount of evidence for the
• 1:40:32
  resurrection on the Shroud of Turin, the particle radiation
• 1:40:35
  theory, but that is for another day.
• 1:40:37
  But if you know the the details behind that particle radiation
• 1:40:40
  theory, you will not have a single sentilla of a doubt of
• 1:40:44
  Jesus rising from the dead. Remember, the 1988 carbon dating
• 1:40:48
  has been completely debunked. And so the Shroud of Turin right
• 1:40:51
  now, there's just immense amounts of evidence of its
• 1:40:54
  authenticity and the description of the crucifixion, you know,
• 1:40:58
  through the blood and, and the imaging on the shroud is so
• 1:41:01
  accurately and uncannily predictive of everything that
• 1:41:05
  the Gospel accounts say it just, I have not, not a single doubt
• 1:41:09
  that this thing is, this is a relic not only of Jesus's
• 1:41:13
  crucifixion, that it really was his burial shroud, but of his
• 1:41:17
  resurrection to literally the particles that constituted his
• 1:41:20
  body in a gigantic flux of neutrons and proton deuteron
• 1:41:24
  flux, that they actually constituted the image that's
• 1:41:27
  emblazoned on the shroud. And there's very good scientific
• 1:41:31
  proof for it, which I can describe in another episode.
• 1:41:35
  So I do you think that's another way in which science, you know,
• 1:41:37
  comes into the fore? There are a variety of other
• 1:41:40
  things. We call them historical critical
• 1:41:42
  method. We can see not only that Jesus
• 1:41:45
  during his ministry, he didn't just have what we call the
• 1:41:48
  prophetic power of performing miracles.
• 1:41:51
  Jesus performed miracles like raising the dead by his own
• 1:41:55
  authority. In other words, when Jesus gets
• 1:41:59
  there right, you know, to the scene, let's say the widow of
• 1:42:02
  Naine and he sees the boy, he's dead coming out on the beer and
• 1:42:06
  the window was weeping and so forth.
• 1:42:08
  Jesus doesn't then make an appeal to God and, and say, you
• 1:42:13
  know, Lord, can you help me to, to do this?
• 1:42:16
  I, I want to be your instrument, your mediator.
• 1:42:18
  And note, Jesus says, young man, I say to you, arise.
• 1:42:24
  And he uses the emphatic ego In Greek.
• 1:42:27
  You don't have to say ego Lego. And you know, I say all you need
• 1:42:32
  is Lego. It's, it's conjugated.
• 1:42:35
  So if you use the ego with it, you're pointing attention to
• 1:42:40
  yourself. I say to you, by my own power
• 1:42:44
  and authority, arise. Now you can just imagine what
• 1:42:48
  these these Jewish people are thinking.
• 1:42:50
  Wow, only God has power over life and death.
• 1:42:54
  This guy's going around doing, you know, raising the dead by
• 1:42:58
  his own power. He must have the power of God
• 1:43:01
  within him. This is already being, you know,
• 1:43:05
  bended about. Oh, do you do not think for a
• 1:43:07
  moment at the Pharisees don't recognize that Jesus by this
• 1:43:11
  very action, right? How does he raise the, the
• 1:43:16
  little girl, you know, the, the daughter of Jairus, same thing,
• 1:43:20
  little girl. I say to you, right, Talitha
• 1:43:23
  Kaoom, I say to you, arise, I say me.
• 1:43:28
  Why my, my own power within me. That's just the beginning of it.
• 1:43:32
  Of course, Jesus claims to have the power to forgive sins, which
• 1:43:35
  of course the Pharisees immediately see as a blasphemy,
• 1:43:38
  etcetera, etcetera. But this goes on and on and on
• 1:43:41
  and on. And it would take me a lot of
• 1:43:42
  time to give you the full list of evidence, but there's
• 1:43:45
  tremendous power, tremendous evidence from a scientific and
• 1:43:49
  historical vantage point of Jesus resurrection and of course
• 1:43:52
  of his miracles by his own power, of his disciples,
• 1:43:56
  miracles in his own name. You start putting together the
• 1:43:59
  whole gamut of things, including and around his preaching, You
• 1:44:03
  get a pretty good picture. He really is the Son of God.
• 1:44:07
  Incredible, incredible. And those listening, let us know
• 1:44:11
  if you wanna hear more about the science behind the Shroud of
• 1:44:13
  Turin. And I know you have a lot to say
• 1:44:15
  about Eucharistic miracles to Father Spitzer, so we will have
• 1:44:19
  to get into that in the future. But wow, this has been awesome.
• 1:44:23
  And your books, you know, I highly recommend, we will link
• 1:44:26
  your website so people can explore them more.
• 1:44:29
  These are no mere mere books. These are tomes.
• 1:44:33
  You, you, you're, you've given us some Cliff notes, which I
• 1:44:36
  really appreciate for the YouTube world.
• 1:44:39
  I know a lot of our listeners though, our readers and are
• 1:44:41
  going to love to explore those books.
• 1:44:42
  So, Father, where can people find your work?
• 1:44:45
  Well, of course you can go to ourownwebsite@majacenter.com.
• 1:44:49
  We do have a little bookstore there.
• 1:44:52
  Of course, you can go to ignatius.com for the science at
• 1:44:57
  the door step to God. You can go to osv.com,
• 1:45:00
  osvpress.com as well for the science reason of faith
• 1:45:05
  discovering the Bible has putting together the scripture
• 1:45:08
  and and faith in science. And also you can go to Amazon or
• 1:45:13
  any of the the usual online distributors and and Realtors.
• 1:45:19
  Well, this has been absolutely delightful.
• 1:45:21
  Thank you so much. Father Spitzer.
• 1:45:23
  Will you come back? Can we, can we have you back?
• 1:45:25
  I know you're not too far from here, so hopefully wasn't too
• 1:45:27
  much of A trek, but what a wonderful episode.
• 1:45:30
  And thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us about the
• 1:45:33
  existence of God and the incarnation.
• 1:45:37
  Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose
• 1:45:39
  podcast. Let me know what you think.
• 1:45:40
  I, I think there's so much fascinating stuff and so much
• 1:45:43
  more to unpack from what Father Spitzer was saying about the
• 1:45:46
  account in Genesis and how it does not contradict science, the
• 1:45:49
  existence of God, the incarnation, so much good stuff.
• 1:45:52
  Let me know if you want what questions you have for Father
• 1:45:55
  Spitzer. We're going to have him back in
• 1:45:56
  studio and we're going to tackle some more stuff.
• 1:45:58
  I'm especially interested in the, the history behind the
• 1:46:02
  science behind the resurrection and Eucharistic miracles.
• 1:46:06
  That was actually big and my faith story of becoming
• 1:46:09
  Catholic. So that's for another day.
• 1:46:11
  But don't forget to subscribe to the Lila Rose podcast if you
• 1:46:14
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• 1:46:16
  ring that notification bell so you hear about episodes
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• 1:46:25
  to leave us a review that helps the podcast reach more people.
• 1:46:28
  Last thing, of course, check out Father Spitzer's work.
• 1:46:32
  Also check out our new Locals community.
• 1:46:34
  We are now on Locals. You can join us there.
• 1:46:36
  You can support the podcast there, become a Patreon, get
• 1:46:39
  special access to our community that we're building.
• 1:46:41
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• 1:46:43
  from Patreon, so our patrons you're going to get special
• 1:46:45
  access to. I'll let you know about that
• 1:46:47
  more through Patreon, but check out the locals community today.
• 1:46:51
  The link is in the bio and we will see you next time.