Latest / Catholic Spirit Radio / Catholic Conversations #192: Surviving Abortion: Melissa Ohden’s Story of Healing and Hope

Transcript

Catholic Conversations #192: Surviving Abortion: Melissa Ohden’s Story of Healing and Hope · Catholic Spirit Radio

0:00
Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
0:03
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
0:08
I'm your host, Teresa Chambers, and I am excited to interview Melissa Oden,
0:14
abortion survivor and founder of the Abortion Survivors Network.
0:18
Melissa, it's so great for you to be here. Will you please tell us your story?
0:23
Yeah, that's a good place to start. And how do I always keep it brief?
0:28
You know, I think sometimes when people hear I'm an abortion survivor or I run
0:33
an organization for abortion survivors, people sort of scratch their head and
0:37
say, well, what is an abortion survivor?
0:40
And we are literally someone who survives the attempt to abort them.
0:46
And, you know, I think we live in a world that kind of, you know,
0:50
gets anxious about even hearing those words, thinking, oh, this is a political
0:54
issue. Now, this is a human issue.
0:57
You know, the truth is nearly what I always have to run the math of how old I am.
1:02
48, almost 49 years ago, my birth mother, Ruth, was forced to abort me at the
1:09
hands of her family. You know, she was 19, Teresa.
1:13
And, you know, I think sometimes we hear the word choice and right.
1:18
And, you know, the world can be so flippant about the humanity of the preborn.
1:22
I think sometimes people then lose sight of the fact that, you know,
1:27
women are impacted by abortion in such a huge way.
1:30
And there's still coercion. There's still force. There's still so much fear.
1:34
And that was my birth mother's experience. She was not given any choice but
1:40
to have a saline infusion abortion that was meant to end my life and forever changed hers.
1:46
Well, and I was reading about a saline induced abortion. Can you expand on that
1:51
just a little bit for people who aren't familiar with it?
1:54
Yeah, it's not pleasant to hear about. So, you know, if there's little ears.
1:58
You know, plug them, cover them, or be ready to have a really important conversation.
2:02
But a salient infusion abortion was the most predominant procedure performed back in the 1970s.
2:09
And it involved injecting a toxic salt solution into the amniotic fluid surrounding
2:15
the preborn baby in the womb.
2:17
And the intent of that salt solution was to poison and scald the child to death.
2:21
So, you know, the procedure usually lasted about three days.
2:25
If the child was, quote-unquote, fortunate enough, their life was ended within
2:30
the first 24 hours, and the rest of that time was spent inducing labor.
2:35
And then the child, the deceased child, right, the outcome of abortion,
2:39
as they would probably try to call it, would be delivered in the final step,
2:43
the abortion procedure. And so,
2:47
most people get their concept of who an abortion survivor is,
2:52
is that it is a born-alive infant in the final step of an abortion procedure.
2:57
And yes, that still happens.
2:59
Late-term abortions still happen. Babies even survive second-trimester abortions.
3:04
We have research on our website, abortionsurvivors.org.
3:07
People can read about how babies survive at every gestation,
3:12
including even first trimester with abortion pills in today's world.
3:16
But back then, the way I survived was the most common route and method of abortion survival.
3:24
And you started the Abortion Survivors Network back in 2017. Is that correct?
3:29
Started, yeah, got involved in the pro-life movement back in 2007.
3:33
Then we became an organization in 2012.
3:36
And really, I'll be honest, Teresa, I prayed and prayed till about 2019 of,
3:41
you know what, Lord, show me the people who can help my population.
3:45
I have a master's degree in social work. This is, I'm not going to pretend for
3:49
a second that this has been an easy, quiet journey for me.
3:53
It has been a lot of bumping up against the world and against my pain,
3:58
but I love that God has been so faithful to me.
4:02
And so I was able to, you know, go through a place of healing and then,
4:06
you know, had a background serving other people in traumatic backgrounds before
4:11
I got involved in a pro-life movement.
4:13
But really, you know, my prayer was, Lord, send the people who can help.
4:19
And then suddenly in 2019, I had to look at myself one day and go,
4:22
oh my gosh, it's you, Melissa. It's always been you. Nobody else.
4:27
Would know how to do it. And nobody else can see with the kind of eyes that you have for this.
4:33
And so, you know, at this point, we've served over 1,100 abortion survivors
4:37
from every single part of the globe you can imagine, but most come from the United States.
4:44
And, you know, I think, Teresa, what I want people to also recognize is that
4:49
behind every abortion survivor is the woman whose abortion didn't go the way
4:53
she planned, right? She paid for a certain outcome.
4:57
She was told that there would be a certain outcome. And then whether it happened
5:02
in the first trimester, second or third, the outcome is not what she was told it would be.
5:08
So we are the only organization around the world who serves women just like my biological mother.
5:14
And now do you still have relationship with your mom?
5:18
Yeah, I know. This is where people
5:20
kind of go, oh my gosh, can I ask this question? Is this too personal?
5:24
And nothing is off limits with me.
5:27
What I've found, Teresa, is in my work, most abortion survivors are raised by
5:33
their biological mothers.
5:34
And I'm going to let that sit for a minute because usually people are surprised by that.
5:40
But it makes sense that after an abortion is failed, the woman in her first
5:46
crisis that is hopefully passed.
5:49
And she's in a place where she can see the humanity of a child.
5:53
And, you know, the truth comes out. And so she raises that child.
5:57
Now, granted, there's a need for a lot, a lot of support in those cases.
6:00
But there are some of us who are adoptees.
6:03
And that is actually my experience.
6:05
So I was placed for adoption almost immediately after I survived that abortion.
6:11
And so I was raised by an incredible adoptive family. My mom and dad are my mom and dad.
6:17
But for descriptive purposes, I always have to say my adoptive parents.
6:22
Found out accidentally that I'd survived that abortion when I was 14 and ultimately
6:28
put me on a path to find my birth parents.
6:31
And so I did obtain my medical records and I did have some communication with
6:37
both sides of my biological family.
6:39
And I think, you know, for me, that's one of the most beautiful parts of my
6:44
life is that I am now connected with my birth mother, Ruth. Mm-hmm.
6:49
Well, that's a beautiful ending to
6:52
a lot of tragedy. And I think that in society, it's kind of hard for us.
6:57
We tend to focus on what we could have done or what we should have done instead
7:03
of what we can do right now.
7:06
Absolutely. Yeah, there's something to be said for.
7:10
That peace, right? That peace of, and my kids probably would tell you one of
7:15
my key phrases is, it is what it is, right?
7:18
And not to minimize any pain or suffering, but to say, you know what,
7:23
when something happens, it is what it is. And the question is,
7:26
are we going to choose to experience peace and joy in the hand of God in it?
7:31
When things don't go the way we planned, do we accept God's will?
7:35
And for me, that is truly what has allowed me, I think, to do the work that I do.
7:42
And I noticed that you converted to the Catholic faith. You kind of came home, so to speak, in 2014.
7:49
Can you tell us about that part of your journey?
7:52
There's so much to that part. I mean, a funny story is that,
7:56
so I was raised a Methodist. My parents were incredibly faithful people.
8:01
We had a great church community. But the funny part, Teresa,
8:04
is I now know my dad in high school used to sneak out of the house and go to midnight mass.
8:12
And I keep going dad who does that my
8:15
kids I'm like they don't do that so I
8:18
just love that there have all been these little ripples of Catholicism long
8:23
before you know I was truly understanding of it but you know obviously getting
8:28
involved in a pro-life movement I had a lot of people praying for me a lot of
8:32
really faithful people witnessing to me and you know I had a
8:36
miscarriage in 2011, and it was a horrific time in my life.
8:41
And, you know, the Holy Spirit has surrounded me with the most beautiful people, faithful Catholics,
8:48
who were a huge part of my journey of conversion.
8:52
And so I encountered two miraculous medals in the diary of St.
8:58
Faustina as I was praying this prayer of, Lord, I'm in so much pain.
9:04
My suffering is so great.
9:05
I feel like you're calling me to church, but if you do, hit me over the head
9:09
with a two-by-four because I've got a lot going on.
9:14
And there it was, and that was the beginning of my conversion.
9:17
And, you know, I can't imagine being anyone but a Catholic.
9:24
Well, that's beautiful, too. And you have two children, which is kind of the
9:30
miracle just growing of your life.
9:33
Just really just being here, surviving that abortion.
9:38
Yeah. And that's, again, I think it's one of those things that when we sit down
9:42
and we have a conversation with people about abortion, it gets really heated really quickly.
9:47
And, you know, what I always try to help people understand is behind every person,
9:55
there is another generation right behind that word choice. It's a person.
10:01
And, you know, I said to some college students recently, you know,
10:06
I'm not asking the world to choose between Ruth's life and mine.
10:10
What I'm saying is, give us equal humanity, equal justice. Don't pit us against one another.
10:17
And, you know, if some people have a birthday, why is it that I have a day that
10:21
I was accidentally born alive?
10:24
What's the difference? What's the difference?
10:26
Between me and everybody else. Right.
10:30
Well, and just to kind of switch gears a little bit, it seems like society is
10:36
kind of accepting that late-term abortion is bad, but early abortion seems like it's more palatable.
10:43
Like, you know, well, it's okay if it's before so many weeks.
10:47
So do you believe that there's any difference, really, felt by mothers and fathers
10:51
of early or late abortion?
10:53
Oh, gosh, absolutely not. I, you know, again, this is, I often joke,
10:58
use me as a good conversation starter.
11:00
I think that was part of God's deliberateness with my life.
11:04
But, you know, I can look at my life and say, when was it supposed to be better for me?
11:10
My medical records reflect the abortionist thought Ruth was 18 to 20 weeks pregnant with me.
11:17
But in reality, She was probably about 31 weeks.
11:21
They can gather that based on my weight when I was accidentally born alive.
11:28
And so whether I was 18 to 20 or I was 31, when would it have been a better
11:33
time for me to be aborted? Mm-hmm.
11:37
But I think you're right. I think the key word that you said was palatable.
11:43
When our culture and abortion providers lie to women that, oh,
11:49
it's just a clump of tissue, it's a blob of cells, you don't need to see an ultrasound, right?
11:55
It is not formed yet. It doesn't have a heartbeat. fill in
11:59
the blank all the lies that women have been told yes
12:01
it dehumanizes that pre-born
12:05
child and and makes it a more palatable decision to make yeah and you know there's
12:14
a lot that's tied to oh the risk of the pregnancy and the risk to the mother
12:19
and you know there's just so many different spins that seems to get put on women,
12:25
like there's this easy button you can push to escape this.
12:31
Yeah, like having an abortion suddenly made you not only unpregnant,
12:36
right, but you were never a mother. That was never a child.
12:40
You're never going to experience any pain or regret from that.
12:46
And, you know, I can tell you that I see this with women whose abortions fail.
12:52
They experience so much shock and fear, right?
12:57
Fear that they've done something horrific to their child, that there's going
13:01
to be so many disabilities, they can't care for them, they're going to be hated,
13:06
right? You fill in the blank.
13:07
And when that happens, it's so clear to me. I mean, even if I didn't know the
13:14
truth, it's so clear to me that the truth of the humanity of the child was unchanged, right?
13:22
It's just the lies of our culture that changes what they, right,
13:28
how they tell women how they should feel, what they should believe.
13:31
And certainly they do the same thing with men. Mm-hmm.
13:35
Right. And they use the clouded term of, oh, it's safe and effective,
13:40
which is kind of triggering for me now going through COVID and it should be for everyone.
13:47
I mean, yeah. And I'm here to tell you, it's never safe for 50 percent of the people involved.
13:52
Right. I mean, for sure, the baby and for women.
13:55
Yeah. No, it's not always safe. Even with abortion pills, women die from taking abortion pills.
14:00
There was a young woman under the age of 18 in the last year,
14:04
I remember, from India alone who died after her family had her take the abortion pill.
14:11
There are complications. And to say it's, quote unquote, effective?
14:16
I'm alive today because it's not effective. I mean, I'm thankful. I'm so thankful.
14:22
But when they say those things, they're telling us everything we need to know about abortion.
14:26
Yeah and you know
14:29
i've had to take that drug for
14:32
the same purpose essentially to dilate
14:35
your cervix for a procedure and all i could think to myself was how do women
14:41
and girls do this on their own yeah how do they do how how and why would any
14:48
lawmaker think that it's okay to get that without seeing someone face-to-face
14:53
to know their backstory.
14:56
Yeah, the risks to women are huge.
14:59
It's just, I don't know how people can do it.
15:03
And all we can do is pray that they can find the strength and find the hope to do the right thing.
15:11
Mm-hmm. Well, and that's where, you know, conversations like this where people
15:15
are tuning in are so important because,
15:18
you know, I think it in many ways has gotten a bit confusing for people after
15:24
Roe was overturned and, right, what are the state laws and are there amendments and,
15:29
you know, is the abortion industry regulated in my state, this, that, the other thing.
15:35
And in reality, there are so many things happening, even in one state alone
15:40
at any given time. It can be really hard to keep up on it.
15:43
My home state of Missouri is a great example of that.
15:46
I was just testifying in a hearing a few weeks ago against Planned Parenthood
15:51
as an expert witness. At the same time, we're having a new amendment after the
15:55
First Amendment did make us a state that was not pro-life anymore.
16:00
So there's a lot going on, but the power rests with us.
16:04
God, right? God is the one at work. But it is up to us to have conversations,
16:11
to stay educated, to heal ourselves and encourage people in our parishes and
16:16
our families to seek healing.
16:17
You know, those are the things that we have control over that make a huge difference.
16:22
And we are going to take a quick break right here on Catholic Conversations.
16:27
I am your host, Teresa Chambers, and we will be back in just a moment with Melissa
16:32
Oden. You're listening to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
16:37
Even though we're healthy, the wife's been after me to sit with her and create
16:40
our will. Mike, I just don't know where to begin.
16:43
Marty, preparing a will is a loving and responsible thing to do.
16:47
It's not as big of a task as you might think.
16:49
Why do you say that? We finalized our will last month online using My Catholic Will.
16:54
It was easy using the free gift found on Catholic Spirit Radio website.
16:59
In about 30 minutes, My Catholic Will guided us in establishing guardians for our kids,
17:06
ensuring a proper Catholic funeral, and making sure that our assets are directed
17:11
at the people and organizations we care about. That sounds like a great idea.
17:15
Did you say My Catholic Will is free? Yep, free. Plus, you complete it right
17:19
at home. My wife's gonna love that.
17:22
Don't delay. Go to mycatholicwill.com right slash catholic spirit radio. Thanks Mike.
17:28
Mycatholicwill.com right slash catholic spirit radio.
17:37
Tired of your phone bill supporting who knows what?
17:40
ICatholic Mobile is a 5G provider that supports what matters to you.
17:45
With iCatholic Mobile, every call, text, and even that endless group chat helps
17:51
support the mission of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
17:54
It's a network that connects you to what's good for both your soul and your wallet.
17:59
More information is available at iCatholicMobile.com.
18:04
ICatholicMobile underwrites for Catholic Spirit Radio.
18:08
Discernment of Spirits. It's time to register for the next Bible study at Catholic Spirit Radio.
18:14
Many times it's difficult to relate to our great saints and their spiritual
18:18
life, but one aspect of our journey that all of us can relate to is the changes
18:23
in disposition of the heart as we grow in holiness.
18:27
These stirrings of the heart affect our thoughts and thus our faith.
18:31
In this 16-episode study, Fr.
18:34
Timothy Gallagher journeys with us as we learn about and develop practical methods for the St.
18:40
Ignatius' Rules of Discernment. Join us at Catholic Spirit Radio in Normal,
18:45
Illinois or via Zoom for our next Bible study starting Thursday,
18:49
February 19th at 6.30 p.m.
18:53
Registration is required. Call or text Tony at 309-750-9062 or email perio2000 at frontier.com.
19:13
And we're back. This is Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio,
19:17
and I am your host, Teresa Chambers.
19:20
I am here with Melissa Oden, who is an abortion survivor and the founder of
19:26
the Abortion Survivors Network.
19:28
Melissa, for those who might not have caught the first segment who just popped
19:32
in and are listening, can you give a quick rundown of the Abortion Survivors
19:37
Network and how it was started?
19:39
Absolutely, yeah. So the Abortion Survivors Network is the only organization
19:43
around the world that empowers those who are impacted by abortions that didn't
19:49
go the way that they were planned to.
19:51
So that means anywhere from the baby who survived an abortion.
19:57
So our youngest abortion survivors are babies in utero right now who,
20:02
you know what, God willing, will not be aborted more than once,
20:06
but that's today's world.
20:07
Babies survived multiple attempts to abort them during a pregnancy.
20:12
God is at work in that, but we serve abortion survivors ranging in age from
20:18
babies in utero to people in their 80s and 90s.
20:21
Earlier today, my staff heard from an adoptive mom whose son is an abortion survivor,
20:28
and he is an elementary-aged kiddo, And they needed help navigating how to talk
20:35
to him about that part of his story.
20:40
And so that's what we do. We have healing resources. We have an online community
20:44
where survivors gather together.
20:47
We do a lot of community support, and so we have a separate community for moms
20:53
whose abortions may fail or they stop them or reverse them in the case of the abortion pill.
20:59
We also have an online community for adoptive parents who wrestle with that
21:04
question that that mom does, which is, how do I tell my child their story? What do I tell them?
21:10
Why would I ever tell them? How do I look out for, you know,
21:14
the emotional, mental, physical complications they may have?
21:19
And so I would really encourage people to go to our website,
21:22
abortionsurvivors.org.
21:24
You can not only read through research
21:26
about the incidence of how often it happens, but go to the moms page.
21:31
You can read all sorts of resources about other women's stories,
21:35
how to talk to kiddos about abortion in an age-appropriate manner,
21:40
how to introduce the concept of abortion survival, and the same is to be said for adoptive parents.
21:46
And so my team and I, there are three of us with backgrounds in social work,
21:51
and so not only do we provide healing and community, but we also meet with people
21:56
one-on-one because this is not, you know, a one-and-done kind of situation.
22:01
Where, you know, you talk about it once or you deal with it once and you just go on with life.
22:05
No, it's an ongoing process and we're just grateful to be there for people.
22:13
And since you are a survivor and this is what led you to start the Abortion
22:19
Survivors Network, you know, I read
22:21
part of your story where you had a saline-induced abortion and it failed.
22:27
And so that means you were born alive and in one of the articles that I read
22:34
it said that there was a nurse that picked you up off the table and she took you to the NICU and
22:40
Yeah. And, you know, the media's reporting of how it happened is always,
22:47
you know, as appropriate as it can be.
22:51
I think it's really hard for the media in particular to wrap their brain around how this happens.
22:57
And so what I actually noticed through my experience is when I was initially
23:03
born alive after five days of soaking in that saline infusion abortion, I was born at St.
23:11
Luke's Hospital in Sioux City, Iowa.
23:13
So my birth mother's abortion took place at a hospital.
23:16
And, you know, I am so grateful for that. That sounds so weird to say,
23:20
but I'm grateful because it ultimately meant that I was provided medical care quickly.
23:27
So I was initially laid aside in the hospital room, like sadly so many babies like me are.
23:36
And, you know, there were demands made to not provide me any kind of medical care.
23:41
And again, this is where people kind of go, no, no, no, no. She's got to be
23:45
lying. No, this doesn't happen. No.
23:48
We say that because the reality is awful, right?
23:52
We can't stand to think that any human would treat another human,
23:57
especially a vulnerable infant that way.
23:59
But this is reality. And I know that, Teresa, because I've met nurses from that
24:05
hospital who did not provide babies
24:08
like me medical care, and they've apologized to me for what they did.
24:13
Yeah. And, you know...
24:16
Thank God for that nurse, right? Right. Yeah. So the demands were made to lead me to die.
24:23
And, you know, I was, you can tell in my medical records, I was nearly dead
24:27
within about five minutes.
24:28
Now, granted, I was not in good shape when I was initially delivered.
24:32
And then within five minutes, I was nearly dead.
24:35
And, you know, my mom and dad had heard about a couple of nurses who intervened.
24:40
And, you know, I may never know. And especially at the age I am now,
24:44
you know, the chances of that nurse or nurses still being alive are pretty slim.
24:49
But what I do know is that at least one nurse rushed me to the NICU themselves.
24:55
And I know that because God brought a nurse into my life who was working in
25:01
the NICU that day and helped to receive me there.
25:05
That nurse who received me is a nurse named Jan. And so we met face to face
25:11
in the last year for the first time.
25:14
And I got to take my parents to meet her. I got to take my birth mother to meet her.
25:18
And that is somebody who, you know, I communicate with quite frequently.
25:22
And again, this is what I want people to think about is when even they're talking
25:28
about abortion survivors, this isn't just something that impacts me as a survivor.
25:34
As you talked about earlier, Teresa, it impacts the next generation,
25:38
my own children who never would have been born.
25:40
It impacted my birth mother. It impacted my adoptive parents,
25:44
it impacted those medical professionals who cared for me, who prayed over me,
25:51
who never forgot about me. Mm-hmm.
25:54
Yeah. And it's, you know, it's just so hard. Kids today are so distracted by
26:00
images that they see in their screens and they swipe up and then they get these
26:05
lies that are told to them.
26:06
And it really does dehumanize. We don't realize how much we're dehumanizing ourselves.
26:14
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think it's such a, I mean,
26:19
it's such an interesting time, isn't it?
26:21
Where, you know, and I say this to my kids, they would tell you I'm a little
26:24
bit of a broken record, which is like we are supposed to be in this age where
26:30
the Internet and all of these things should be increasing our amount of knowledge.
26:35
But in many ways, it's sort of dumbing things down because people aren't thinking critically anymore.
26:42
But in their defense, and especially with abortion in particular,
26:47
the messaging is so powerful that really overrides your prefrontal cortex to think clearly.
26:57
And it's triggering the parts of your brain that are fearful.
27:03
And we've seen that a lot. You
27:05
know, if you're looking for headlines about abortion, you don't see truth.
27:10
You don't see beautiful stories like mine on the front page.
27:14
You see these horrific, you know, headlines of, you know, that they're coming
27:19
for you and all your rights and women are dying because they couldn't have an
27:22
abortion and all of those things.
27:24
And that's what our kids are being inundated with. Mm hmm.
27:30
Well, what happens if a woman starts the abortion process and then she changes her mind?
27:36
That's a great question. So women do have a couple of avenues.
27:42
First of all, there are women who stop their abortions.
27:46
So my first book is You Carried Me, A Daughter's Memoir.
27:51
My second book is called Abortion Survivors Break Their Silence.
27:55
And in that book, I tell the stories of not only other abortion survivors,
27:59
but women whose abortions didn't go the way they planned.
28:04
So one is a stopped abortion, a woman who got up off the table in the middle
28:09
of her abortion procedure because she felt like God was talking to her and telling her to get up.
28:14
So her kiddo is a teenager now.
28:19
And so, yes, women stopped their abortions. And so that's one way.
28:24
And yes, you know, are there risks to that?
28:27
Yes, women will be told about that by their medical provider.
28:31
You know, there's a risk of preterm labor.
28:33
There is a risk of, you know, you name it. Yes, there are risks, but...
28:39
Babies are born after an abortion is stopped, and medical care is super important
28:44
for the women and the children.
28:46
But we also see women reversing their abortion in today's world.
28:51
So if people aren't familiar with what we call APR, that is abortion pill reversal,
28:56
you might also hear it called abortion pill rescue.
28:59
And, you know, what that just is, is, you know, if a woman takes the abortion
29:03
pill and she hasn't taken the second, if she is reaching out to a pregnancy
29:09
setter or a medical provider in time,
29:11
they can give her progesterone, which statistically speaking has a high impact
29:18
of, you know, quote unquote reversing that abortion.
29:22
And so she will continue to
29:25
be pregnant and children are born and children
29:28
are born healthy I mean we're talking thousands of children after
29:32
APR but the number could be so much higher if only
29:35
women were told about it well and you know
29:38
I remember when I was trying to do my family
29:42
I had had a miscarriage and then
29:45
I was prescribed progesterone as
29:49
soon as I got pregnant the second time to help with the baby to grow and you
29:55
know and it's just like then you think well is that maybe because of the consequences
30:01
long term of being on the pill for seven years you know and so that's where.
30:09
Women have all these inundations of medical care.
30:12
They call it care, but they never tell you the long-term consequences of a short-term remedy.
30:19
Right. Ooh, that's a good line right there. Long-term consequences of a short-term remedy.
30:24
And that's, I mean, again, that's the world that we live in, isn't it, Teresa?
30:29
I often say this to people when we're talking about abortion,
30:33
the people who are saying, right, go ahead and do it.
30:36
There's no consequence. They get to walk away.
30:39
Right. They get to walk away. The woman and the child are affected forever.
30:47
Well, and I would imagine on some level, if the father knows, the father is too.
30:52
He just probably doesn't even have any preemptive reason to even know how to
30:57
react because of society and how we treat men.
31:01
Yeah. And there's a great group out there right now that I would encourage people to check out.
31:06
It's called Men for Life. So they are based out of Louisiana.
31:10
And the man who runs it now, Sean Conkren, has an amazingly beautiful story
31:17
of redemption that came from a place of incredible suffering,
31:21
losing his child to abortion as a college student and not having.
31:27
Any support, not having any say in the life of his child.
31:31
And really just a systemic response, even by his college that,
31:37
you know, was sending him this message of this doesn't affect you, right?
31:41
This shouldn't affect you. You need to move on with your life.
31:44
And it obliterated his life for a long time until, you know,
31:50
God alone really spared his life and brought him to healing.
31:53
And now he's this really bold voice out there hoping to gather up more men to
31:59
be healed and to raise their voices.
32:01
And that's what it's going to take to restore a culture of life.
32:05
Right. And, you know, in the earlier segment, you had mentioned that,
32:11
This is kind of a pain that you live with. And so expand upon that.
32:18
Yeah, I mean, and pain means a number of things for me.
32:22
If people have questions, every abortion survivor's experience is very unique in many ways.
32:31
People often think of Gianna Jessen as an abortion survivor who has shared her story for a long time.
32:37
She and I are almost the same age. we've survived the same type of procedure,
32:41
but yet we've had radically different medical outcomes in our lives.
32:46
She has cerebral palsy from the lack of oxygen when she was aborted and born alive.
32:53
I look, quote unquote, perfectly healthy. If people see photos of me or you
32:57
see me on TV, people go, oh, wow, that's not what I was expecting.
33:01
Well, that is true because our outcomes can be very diverse.
33:06
When I was first delivered alive, I was a little less than three pounds.
33:12
I suffered severe respiratory and liver problems. I suffered from seizures.
33:17
The doctors were unsure of how long I was going to live and what my life might look like.
33:23
And so, you know, the outcomes are very different medically for us.
33:28
Some survivors are missing limbs. Some are.
33:33
We look, quote unquote, perfectly normal on the outside. And it's that emotional
33:38
pain, the spiritual pain.
33:41
It's struggles with identity and self-worth. How could I be so unwanted?
33:47
There must be something wrong with me.
33:50
And we live in a culture that says, hey, you were just a choice.
33:55
It is somebody else's right to end your life.
33:58
And those messages compound one another. And so it is this constant tension
34:05
of knowing your worth in a world
34:09
that says you should be invisible and you're not supposed to be here.
34:12
All at the hands, too, of people who should love you unconditionally.
34:17
And that's what's so complicated is, yeah, there can be coercion and force and
34:21
lack of support and all those things that lead a woman to abortion.
34:25
But ultimately, it complicates the health, the well-being, the life of the child.
34:31
And it doesn't mean that abortion is a solution to that problem.
34:35
It's just saying, man, this is really complicated and it impacts the child's life.
34:40
And so, yes, there's emotional pain, there's spiritual pain.
34:44
For me personally, because I'm sort of the, you know, I guess I'm the groundbreaking
34:50
person who studies this and has healed a lot of people and worked on it.
34:56
I know the issues better than other people. And so there's, you know,
35:00
a lot of chronic pain, chronic fatigue.
35:04
There's soft tissue damage that is done. And that's one of those things that
35:09
I've now learned about myself is I've been in physical pain for so long that
35:15
I just always thought that that's what everybody else had.
35:20
Well, and I think that you really are an inspiration to all women that there's hope.
35:28
For the future, because you're still here to tell your story.
35:33
Right. Yeah. I mean, I say that kind of fastily, right? Like, right. Yes.
35:39
But I mean that of, man, when we're having a bad day, take a look around and
35:45
realize what a blessing it is to be alive.
35:48
And, you know, I know that everybody goes through something hard.
35:53
Man, surviving an abortion is not the only hard thing I've gone through in my life.
35:58
But in the midst of it all, we all need support, right?
36:02
We all need one another. We need resources. We don't have to go through things alone.
36:09
And that's what I desperately want people to understand, whether they're women
36:13
or men who are going through circumstances that seem insurmountable.
36:19
Abortion is not the solution to whatever that is. Right.
36:23
We are going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk
36:27
about the Abortion Survivors Network and really get into how that organization supports women and men.
36:35
And we are going to learn more about what we have to be hopeful for regarding the subject.
36:43
Teresa Chambers, Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
36:46
You're listening to Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
36:50
Discernment of Spirits. It's time to register for the next Bible study at Catholic Spirit Radio.
36:57
Many times it's difficult to relate to our great saints and their spiritual
37:01
life, but one aspect of our journey that all of us can relate to is the changes
37:06
in disposition of the heart as we grow in holiness.
37:09
These stirrings of the heart affect our thoughts and thus our faith In this
37:15
16-episode study, Father Timothy Gallagher journeys with us As we learn about
37:20
and develop practical methods for the St.
37:22
Ignatius Rules of Discernment Join us at Catholic Spirit Radio in Normal,
37:27
Illinois Or via Zoom for our next Bible study Starting Thursday,
37:32
February 19th at 6.30 p.m.
37:35
Registration is required Call or text Tony at 309-750-9062 or email perio2000 at frontier.com.
37:52
Even though we're healthy, the wife's been after me to sit with her and create
37:55
our will. Mike, I just don't know where to begin.
37:57
Marty, preparing a will is a loving and responsible thing to do.
38:01
It's not as big of a task as you might think.
38:04
Why do you say that? We finalized our will last month online using My Catholic Will.
38:09
It was easy using the free gift found on Catholic Spirit Radio website.
38:13
In about 30 minutes, My Catholic Will guided us in establishing guardians for our kids,
38:20
ensuring a proper Catholic funeral, and making sure that our assets are directed
38:25
at the people and organizations we care about. That sounds like a great idea.
38:29
Did you say My Catholic Will is free? Yep, free. Plus, you complete it right
38:34
at home. My wife's going to love that.
38:36
Don't delay. Go to mycatholicwill.com right slash catholic spirit radio. Thanks, Mike.
38:43
Mycatholicwill.com right slash catholic spirit radio.
38:51
Tired of your phone bill supporting who knows what?
38:54
ICatholic Mobile is a 5G provider that supports what matters to you.
39:00
With iCatholic Mobile, every call, text, and even that endless group chat helps
39:05
support the mission of the Catholic Spirit Radio Network.
39:08
It's a network that connects you to what's good for both your soul and your wallet.
39:13
More information is available at iCatholicMobile.com.
39:17
ICatholic Mobile underwrites for Catholic Spirit Radio.
39:26
And we are back with Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit Radio.
39:31
Teresa Chambers here. And I am so excited to have our last segment with Melissa
39:37
Oden, who is an abortion survivor.
39:40
She's also the founder of the Abortion Survivors Network, and we are so thankful
39:45
that you were able to share your story.
39:48
And I know that there's a lot of facets of what this organization does to support
39:52
men and women regarding abortion.
39:54
So what is kind of the advocacy on the legislative side that you guys provide?
40:01
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because I tend to focus a lot on making
40:05
sure people know that we're here for them.
40:08
And you're right, Teresa, there is a lot more than that, that we do.
40:11
We do a lot of education and outreach to anywhere from policymakers at the state
40:19
level to the federal level.
40:21
I mean, I've testified before Congress, I don't know, probably close to 10 times.
40:25
I've spoken before international parliaments. I've been an expert witness in
40:30
a court case recently against Planned Parenthood to talk about how women aren't
40:35
informed that abortions can fail and they're left with a lot of questions and concerns.
40:42
And so we also then do advocacy.
40:46
And for me, right, the advocacy stems from what we experience with the people
40:53
that we serve. If I know that abortion is the intentional taking of a human life and.
41:00
Sometimes people survive it, yeah, then I'm going to advocate regarding that.
41:05
And the same is to be said for advocating for women and family members impacted by abortions that fail.
41:12
So we give a voice to something that I do truly believe is going to change our
41:19
culture and it's going to change policy.
41:22
And so, yeah, I mean, we are often called to testify for legislation in states
41:29
where Maybe it's just aggressive expansion of abortion.
41:33
And they want those lawmakers to be educated to know that, yeah,
41:38
you know what, abortions can fail.
41:39
And so that tells us that that's a human life that's being impacted.
41:43
And, you know, P.S., there should be policy that protects women from the abortion industry.
41:50
And there should be the ability for a mom or an abortion survivor to,
41:57
you know, later hold an abortion provider accountable.
42:02
If if something like this happens, I mean, somebody passed along a video clip
42:07
the other day from Phil Donahue back in the 1990s. Right.
42:11
Talk about a blast from the past and the good old days.
42:16
But in that clip, he had an abortion survivor, Ana Rosa Rodriguez.
42:23
And this was a pretty infamous case back then.
42:26
She's still alive today but in
42:29
that case she lost part of her
42:32
arm in and a in a what
42:35
they would say a botched abortion and it was a huge case back then because right
42:41
it was it was a butchering that happened with her mother and she bore the brunt
42:47
of it and you know that's that's the kind of advocacy that we're still called
42:52
to be a part of every single day.
42:56
Well, it just provides such a great opportunity because I think that,
43:01
you know, we teach our kids that you got to trust the numbers and trust the science.
43:06
And, you know, you can provide statistics and say, oh, well,
43:10
less than 6% of abortions are unsuccessful, right?
43:16
You know, And then you say, well, 6% is not very many. That means it's 94% successful, right?
43:24
Like when you look at the weather forecast, you say, oh, there's a 30% chance
43:27
of rain. Do I need my jacket?
43:29
Yeah, you got to take your jacket, right?
43:33
So it's really hard for us to live in a world where we want to trust those numbers.
43:39
But then you come and you're the survivor.
43:42
You're the 1%. You're the 6%.
43:45
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, somebody from time to time, right,
43:49
people could be kind of flippant on social media as they like to be.
43:52
And somebody had said, oh, there's like 11 percent failure rate of this abortion
43:57
in a sample size of I mean,
44:00
it was almost 14,000 second trimester abortions in Canada and had an 11 percent failure rate.
44:08
These were babies who had an identified health issue and they were told, right?
44:14
These mothers were told that they were incompatible with life.
44:17
Second trimester abortions. And yet these babies survived in the second trimester.
44:24
And people being so flippant about it and saying, right, that's 11% is nothing.
44:30
Well, first of all, it may not seem like it to you, but when you're the one
44:35
who's being aborted, yeah, it means a lot.
44:38
And 11% or 6% or 3% run over the case of decades of abortion.
44:46
We're over a million abortions again a year in the United States.
44:49
11% is very statistically significant in the face of a million.
44:55
Right. I mean, if we had an 11% death rate for a virus, that would be a huge deal.
45:01
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. We seem to, like our culture treats abortion as the
45:06
one thing where they're like, nah, not a big deal.
45:09
Rules don't apply here. Common sense doesn't apply here. It could be unregulated.
45:13
We aren't going to listen to the voices of the people who have lived to survive it.
45:17
Yeah. Believe all women, accept those women. Yeah.
45:21
I mean, I have thoughts in my head that I really can't say right now.
45:25
But, you know, I mean, that's the hard part is it's like, what do we do with that passion?
45:31
What can someone do? Let's say they've never had an abortion.
45:36
They know that they wouldn't. Like, how can they support this network,
45:41
of survivors? Yeah, I mean, I think the easiest way is to really educate yourself.
45:48
And I say that because I have learned so much in the last 20 years of doing this work.
45:56
There is not a day goes by that I don't learn something new.
45:59
And so I think we start with ourselves, you know, being open to learning more
46:04
and then passing it along to other people.
46:08
I know it seems so simple, Teresa, but I kid you not, people are so under-informed, under-informed.
46:17
And what the research would tell us, long ago, we'd look at research and it
46:21
would say, yeah, it takes about seven conversations with a person that you trust
46:26
to change, to have some sort of conversion, to make an impact.
46:31
Guess what? That number is way higher now.
46:34
I think the last number a friend throughout to me was
46:37
it takes like over 30 touch points with
46:40
someone to now have that same outcome because of
46:44
social media reels all the way that it's
46:47
distracting and changing people's ability to critically think so I want people
46:52
to go into interactions and think about that right of like man if I know it's
46:56
going to take 30 touch points and they need to to trust me what what do I need
47:03
to do to lead them to that place.
47:06
Yeah, and I'm going to put in my little plug, ding ding, for Catholic Radio,
47:10
because you don't have the AI input right now.
47:14
This is just two people talking, and we're talking about the hard stuff,
47:19
and you don't get this in your reels.
47:22
You just don't. You can't trust it. You can't verify it.
47:26
And it's going to get buried, right? I mean, somebody said that to me.
47:29
We have a campaign called My Body, My Voice, which is a Holy Spirit thing where,
47:35
you know, it's our storytelling campaign.
47:38
And so you can go to mybody-myvoice.org and come face to face with abortion survivors.
47:44
And we're adding in the stories of women whose abortions didn't go the way they
47:49
planned. And we want people to enter into these stories, right?
47:54
Because I know the power of story in changing hearts and minds and empowering
47:59
the people with the story.
48:01
But somebody had said, man, I just don't see, I don't see the stories on social
48:06
media. And I said, yeah, it's because we get clobbered.
48:09
Yeah, their logarithm isn't compatible with theirs. Yeah. There's no product.
48:15
Right, and that's a way that people can make a difference is,
48:19
right, go to my body, my voice, listen to the stories, and then share them, right?
48:25
That is something that may seem so simple, but it is a game changer.
48:31
Well, and I think that some of it goes back to, you know, women,
48:35
we really need to take better care of each other.
48:39
You know, in our society right now, it's one for all. It's not all for one.
48:45
We're not working together for God. We're working against each other on so many levels.
48:51
Yeah, so true. So what are the goals for the future for the Abortion Survivors Network?
48:59
To not have to do this anymore. Right.
49:02
Truthfully, you know, I mean, honestly, every day, that's kind of my prayer
49:06
of like, could this, how does this end, right? How does abortion end?
49:12
But, you know, in reality, Teresa, I know that even after it ends,
49:15
I still have all these decades of cleanup to do with the people who have been harmed by it.
49:21
And, you know, statistically, we know that there are thousands of abortion survivors every year.
49:26
And so thousands of abortion survivors means thousands of moms and thousands
49:32
of dads and thousands of families.
49:35
So I'm always gonna have this work to do.
49:38
But for us, it's really about getting the message out if more people know that abortions can fail.
49:45
I think, first of all, women, if they're informed of that, are going to think
49:49
twice about abortion because they're going to know what it is.
49:52
And so, you know, that is a huge part of where I think we're headed is to really
49:58
encourage policymakers to ensure that women are informed about what abortion
50:04
is and what it does, including the fact that it fails.
50:08
And so that it may be legislatively that we are tackling that.
50:11
It might be in more court hearings as experts. I don't know.
50:14
I don't know what God's intention is there, but I can tell you that I'm not afraid to say yes to him.
50:21
And, you know, it's also about continuing to reach into our culture with the
50:25
stories that not only change hearts and minds, but they reach the abortion survivors
50:30
who think they're the only person that this must have happened to.
50:33
It reaches the women who are so ashamed and embarrassed and think,
50:38
again, just like their child, they think they're the only person that it happened to.
50:42
And so, you know, it really is twofold. It is about reaching people and educating
50:47
them and serving them well, but also, you know, advocating with statistics and
50:53
stories in a way that nobody else does in the pro-life movement. Right.
50:57
And, you know, I think that small ways that, you know, our average person who's
51:02
listening to this is is a way that you can do kind of support it in your prayer
51:07
life is we're getting ready to start Lent soon. Yeah.
51:11
You know, make that little sacrifice.
51:14
For those babies that survive, that become people that have challenges in life.
51:21
And then always, always think about the babies who don't make it.
51:25
Yeah. There's so many of them. Like we can't even visualize the number of them. There's so many of them.
51:34
Yeah. But I can tell you those prayers are so impactful.
51:38
And, you know, at the risk of like feeling emotional about it right now,
51:42
I can tell you that in a world that in many ways has turned a blind eye to abortion
51:49
survivors, I can tell you on behalf of those that we serve how meaningful it is to be remembered.
51:56
To be prayed for. It is absolutely life-changing.
52:02
Well, and I think that you are a good testament to, you know,
52:06
God gives you a mission, and you're following the mission that He's sending you on.
52:12
So good for you. You deserve a big pat on the back. Thank you for what you do.
52:18
Thank you. It's an adventure, right? That is, yeah, it is a very,
52:23
it's a special fiat for me, for sure.
52:25
And I'm sure that your kids are thinking that they have a mom who is changing the world.
52:30
I mean, how proud can they be? And your husband, too.
52:34
Yeah, they are. I mean, they're so proud of my, our oldest will be going away
52:38
to college next year and, you know, plans to study politics and law.
52:43
And this is exactly the sphere that she plans to practice in.
52:47
Well, what a great example that you've given her.
52:51
You know, I mean, that's kind of the struggle that we all have in life is,
52:55
you know, what's our purpose? What is, why are we here?
52:59
And boy, if there's anybody who has an answer for that, why are you here? That's you.
53:04
I mean, my goodness. Yeah, I don't think I've ever questioned, right, why I'm here.
53:09
It's sort of the, yeah, it's the obedience to that, right? That's the kicker.
53:14
Well, and having the,
53:18
The ability to give in to that, you know, and to not be so stubborn against,
53:26
you have to give in to God's will, right? Yeah.
53:30
Total dying of self. Right. Every single day. Every day.
53:34
Yeah, I think of Psalm 23 when you walk through the valley and it's dark and
53:39
you were near death and you're in the greener pastures and you're helping to
53:45
keep those pastures green for the other survivors.
53:49
Thank you. That's very inspirational.
53:52
What message would you have for young women who might be considering abortion?
53:58
If somebody out there is considering
54:01
abortion i would say pause breathe
54:05
you don't have to do that right now let our world send a sense of urgency says
54:10
panic panic panic pause and know that you can turn to a lot of places for help
54:18
and for hope so whether it is a pregnancy center that you find online,
54:23
whether it is, you know, talking to somebody at your school,
54:26
your college, your priest at your parish,
54:30
you do not need to go through this alone.
54:34
And you are loved more than you can ever begin to imagine. And there is so much
54:40
hope for you and your baby.
54:44
Hope that you can't even, you cannot even begin to imagine how much hope there is.
54:50
And so, yeah, I just pause and know that there is help and there is hope.
54:55
Yeah. Well, Melissa Oden, the Abortion Survivors Network.
55:00
You can go to the web at abortionsurvivors.org to learn more.
55:05
Thank you so much for being here on Catholic Conversations on Catholic Spirit
55:09
Radio. And we wish you continued success in your work.
55:13
Thank you. Thanks a lot. You've been listening to Catholic Conversations.
55:17
Download our podcasts at catholicspiritradio.com.
56:35
Hello, this is Steve Gleason with your one-minute tool for Catholic evangelism.
56:38
Here's the question for your non-Catholic friend.
56:41
Understanding Melchizedek, Malachi, and Mass seem quite mysterious to most,
56:45
even including Bible students.
56:46
How about you? Well, here's your three best friendship tools for Catholic evangelism.
56:49
Number one, Melchizedek.
56:50
He's the very first priest in biblical history, Though he's a prefigurement
56:53
of Jesus' priesthood, Melchizedek was a person.
56:56
To Abraham, he presented bread and wine, which are the biblical elements of
56:59
a sacrifice, and now presented at a Catholic Mass.
57:02
Secondly, Malachi. He follows up some 3,000 years later and says,
57:06
In every place, incense shall be offered to my name in a pure offering.
57:09
It is understood that the pure offering would be the sacrificial body and blood
57:12
of Christ that is confected on every Catholic altar.
57:15
Prophetically, this would replace and fulfill the ineffective temple sacrifices.
57:19
And thirdly, my pesky comeback. That pure and holy sacrifice is not grape juice
57:23
and a wafer at a non-Catholic communion service.
57:26
Also, those elements are not Jesus' body, and they surely aren't Jesus' blood.
57:29
However, I am glad to say that some grape juice and a wafer is a really nice
57:32
summertime refreshment. Find me online at Smarty Pants Catholic Evangelism.