Latest / The Bigger Stage w/ Matt Stone / Who You Do Business With Matters More Than Strategy | Jamelle Lindo on EQ, Alignment & Human-Centered Leadership
Transcript
- BBR Show Pre-Launch Convo - Jamelle Lindo === Matt Stone: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Building Business Relationships Show. I'm Matt Stone, and before we officially launch in 2026, date to be announced, we're exploring what matters most when it comes to relationships in business. These early episodes are about testing ideas, learning from guests, and we have a good one today as usual, and hearing what you think belongs in the conversation. Matt Stone: So listen in, share your thoughts and help shape what this show becomes. And joining me today, all the way from Toronto, a beautiful city is Jamelle Lindo, an executive coach and international keynote speaker who's devoted to helping leaders build emotionally empowered, resilient human centered teams. With nearly two decades of experience and over 10,000 hours of coaching and speaking, Jamelle has guided thousands of executives worldwide through his Emotional Empowerment Process™. As the founder of Paradigm People Development and a member of the Forbes Coaches Counsel, he [00:01:00] brings a unique blend of emotional intelligence, leadership, insight, and real world practicality to the challenges organizations face today. Matt Stone: Jamelle, thank you so much for joining me. Matt Stone: Thank you. So thank you so much for, uh, having me. I love the way you, you read that it made it seem like, you know, like, I'm a big deal or something. Matt Stone: Oh, well you're, you are a big deal. I called your mother and she assured me that you are a very big deal. Matt Stone: I will, if anybody knows, you know. Matt Stone: Right. Dude, I, I'm, I'm just so grateful and, you know. Matt Stone: transparency for our listeners, you're somebody that, that we met through a mutual acquaintance and friend, Yep. Jamelle Lindo: Mutual acquaintances Matt Stone: and friends actually on multiple touch points. Matt Stone: And [00:02:00] now, our friendship has just become such a pillar of my life. I get too distant from Jamelle and I'm like, oh, I need some Vitamin J. Matt Stone: Uh, there you go. Right? And then for those who don't know, Matt Stone has like a, a super power when it comes to vulnerability. Maybe you'll see it today. And so I, I always, uh, refer to him as my, as my vulnerability, uh, you know, master and teacher. So it's one of the things that I just, I just love so much about you brother. Matt Stone: Wow. Matt Stone: That means a lot to me. I really appreciate you saying that. Yeah. Matt Stone: Alright, so, but let's start off as we always do, uh, Matt Stone: looking back, what's a business relationship that had a major impact on your career and life that you can recall? Matt Stone: Yeah, so I mean, this, this one isn't really a, it's not a business relationship, but in my previous world, I did a variety of leadership roles over the course of 10 years. And the first one that I did was in the space of new hire training. And so I met, uh, Tarek at that time is his name, and he was my [00:03:00] first kind of example of really good leadership. Matt Stone: And, and then also, you know, he put me on to this idea of leadership development. I, I had, I had no idea that leadership development was a thing that was happening that you could build a, you know, a business around and all of that, right? So it kind of started there for me. And we also were able to kind of experiment with emotional intelligence in some of the sessions that we were running together. Matt Stone: So it was the birthplace really of my business. And so that's the first relationship that comes to mind for me because it's kind of like the, the origin story of, of where it all started before I even had a business when I was just, you know, working in the corporate space in leadership. Matt Stone: You know, I, I think you're highlighting a key point. When we talk about a business relationship, it isn't always a relationship that originated directly from business, but a relationship that very much impacts the business we get into, how we shape our business, uh, the businesses that we choose, uh, [00:04:00] for example, and I, I think I like that expansive definition of business relationship. Matt Stone: It, it sometimes helps you figure out what to do with your business in the first place. Matt Stone: Oh yeah, I would hundred percent agree Matt Stone: with that, right? Sometimes the biggest impacts come from people that you met before the business was even an idea. Matt Stone: Exactly. So you kind of alluded to it or suggested that it helped you with the business, but could we just get a, a quick example of a couple things where that relationship taught you something about business that you carry forward to this day. What are some thoughts, some memories that you have from that, that it's like the gift that keeps on giving? Matt Stone: I remember our, uh, our first meeting, and it wasn't specific to business. It was really more about leadership. But the first time that we met, I was someone who was successful in getting this role of like training. And so he, his role was now to like mentor me in training and facilitation and there are like a number of things that kind of stand out to me. Matt Stone: This is 20 years ago now. And I know that that's kind of crazy ' cause you might be thinking, oh my gosh, 20 years ago [00:05:00] you're probably like, you know, a fetus or something. But, but I look, I look Matt Stone: You, do, you do look very young. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. Matt Stone: You don't even want to see me without the beard. If I, if I take this beard off, I'm like non-existent. Matt Stone: I'm, I'm like, not even born yet. So in any case, I remember our initial meeting after I was successful for this role, kind of sat me down, asked me a question that a leader had never asked me. He said, uh, so how would you like to be led? And it kind of struck me because it sounds like an obvious thing, right? Matt Stone: Like before you engage in kind of this, like this, this leadership journey together, it's probably a good idea to say, okay, well how does this person actually want to be led? Right? What kind of leadership brings the best out of them? And I just never had that question. So it it, I was taken aback by it, and then I started to answer the question. Matt Stone: I remember the feeling of the question because I felt seen and validated and, um, that my experience [00:06:00] mattered. And so it was kind of like this, this intro to what human-centered leadership really is. So that was one. And then another one is, it's kind of a funny one. So I, I was just starting, you know, facilitating at the time, and I remember I did my first kind of official facilitation session, right? Matt Stone: And, uh, immediately after we, we debriefed it together and I said, okay, so this really weird thing happened. Uh, where, where I said the answer and then immediately after someone's hand shot up and asked me a question about the answer that I just gave. And I was so confused. I'm like, I don't get what's I just said that, right? Matt Stone: And then he is just like, completely normal. Completely normal, right? And so that was the moment that I learned the difference between presenting and facilitating. Because when we facilitate, right, we take the participant on a journey with us. We, we confirm understanding, we ask questions, we get them involved in the learning process. Matt Stone: And I was like, [00:07:00] oh, okay. So I can't just say stuff and people get it. Like, no, that's not how this works. So that was a, that was a funny one. Matt Stone: Oh my goodness. Matt Stone: That's a good one. That's a good one. Um, are there any like non, like entertainers or non non-traditional business kind of figures that you've ever thought that, like learned something from maybe that a movie or some kind of artwork that you've seen that, that hit you at a business level? Matt Stone: I'm just curious. I don't know why I'm even asking that. Matt Stone: Yeah. Oh man, that is a super interesting question. So, I do, um, like boxing on, on the side and it, and it's so funny. So I've, I've started this, I've got a trainer and everything, and I'm just loving it. I love the craft. I don't want to compete. I don't wanna get in there, you know, I don't wanna do any of that. Jamelle Lindo: Um, Matt Stone: but I love the, the craft, I love the sweet science of it. There's something artistic about the movements and the strategy involved with all of that. And so it's been top of mind for me lately. So I've been watching a lot of Floyd Mayweather highlight [00:08:00] videos, which kind of outline really what boxing mastery looks like, uh, defensively, offensively. Matt Stone: And so I, I'll often look at that and, and I think to myself, wow, you know, he's mastered every single aspect, every single, every single element of his craft. Right. When you watch videos of people that have fought him, they'll talk about how he knows every inch of that ring. He is always within his familiarity because of the level of expertise that he brings, the level of experience that he brings and, and the comfort that he has while he's in there is something to marvel at because you're getting punches thrown at you, right? Matt Stone: So it naturally, all the anxiety and stuff kinda goes up, but he has this poise and this, this relaxation that makes him so incredibly effective in there. And so I compare that to a few things. Number one, I compare it to business being an entrepreneur because there are all of these [00:09:00] different facets and aspects of business, and my goal is over the course of a lifetime to really master the, the various aspects of it. Matt Stone: I also think about that. in terms of, in terms of psychology. Right. And in terms of really understanding the person that I'm working with, the person that I'm, that I'm coaching, right? What are their thoughts? What are their beliefs? What are their emotions? What are their orientations? What are their drivers? What are some of the things that have happened that have contributed to who they are today? How they show up, how they lead, how they perform, and that really is a craft, that can be mastered, by paying attention to every single detail and every single nuance, and getting exposure to every single kind of person and every single kind of leadership and life situation. Matt Stone: So Floyd May Mayweather for me is like this inspiration for being detail oriented and for perfecting the small things to eventually lead to a kind of [00:10:00] mastery. Matt Stone: A person can have a profound impact on you and you've never even met them, you know? It's amazing how that Matt Stone: can work. And then if you actually do get to know the person, then it's a whole other level of impact. But, um. You know, we are so impacted by other people. Matt Stone: We are. Matt Stone: Yeah. Matt Stone: You bring up an interesting point there when you say you could be in re and especially in this virtual world, you can be in relationship with someone that is one way. If I watch enough content on anybody online, at a certain point, I start to actually feel like I know them. They don't know that I, they don't know that I exist, but at some point I actually start to feel like I know who this, who this person is. Matt Stone: So you make a good point that, um, you can, uh, be in relationship even if it's, even if it's one way. And you can learn a lot in those relationships. And I do, I do my best to do that. Matt Stone: Okay, so I'm loving this for many reasons, and one of them is that Matt Stone: we're getting into something that I'm really passionate about, which is [00:11:00] redefining the boundary we put around the word relationship. Matt Stone: Even when I go to a store, I consider my interaction with that clerk who's helping check me out a relationship, even if it's for one minute, Matt Stone: Yeah, Matt Stone: You know, Matt Stone: it is, it is a relationship. And, and in that one minute, something profound can happen, right? Lives can be changed in what would normally be considered just a simple transactional, you know, kind of, kind of thing. Matt Stone: I will have a guest in this pre-show who is from the Congo. Matt Stone: Mm. Matt Stone: I met in an Uber. Matt Stone: Oh, wow. Matt Stone: And she's incredible. She has overcome amazing things and is building, she's got a business mind. She's a, she's incredible. And as I'm talking to her and she's driving me somewhere, I'm like, I may be a passenger in her car, but right now I'm a passenger in her life and she's sharing this with me and I'm learning from her. Matt Stone: And so Matt Stone: I stripped away our roles. And it was just [00:12:00] dialed into the human, and I'm excited to bring her to everybody too. She's incredible. She's incredible. Matt Stone: You're, you're really good at that. Like you're, you're one of those people that, like, I've gone to a few events with you. Like you're one of those people that when you meet, so you just kind of naturally um, like fall into rapport with people. Like, it, it, it doesn't look like there's, there's any effort, right? Matt Stone: Like, I remember we went to a WeWork, uh, once. In, where, where were we? It was where you had that incredible like lobster sandwich. What Matt Stone: Oh, in Boston? Yeah, Matt Stone: in Boston. Yeah. That was fun. Matt Stone: um, I just, I just remember just the way that you kind of interacted with the people and that kind of thing comes very naturally to you. Matt Stone: And like, it's funny, you'd think that that would come naturally to me as like an emotional intelligence expert. It doesn't, like I will sit in that Uber ride and just like, like not say a word. Like, and I'm totally cool with that. I'm totally cool with that. Right. Um, so I'm, I'm working on that man. I'm, I'm working it, I'm working on being open to these magical moments of like the Uber ride [00:13:00] or, you know, the, the, the cashier and you know, so, you know, Matt Stone: I'm workin' on it, that's all I'm saying. Matt Stone: Yeah, well, listen, uh, there are appropriate times and inappropriate times, and sometimes you gotta work something out in your head and you need the quiet space. Uh, but I do try and take advantage of every opportunity to have a, I look at it as a relationship. It Matt Stone: can be a 30 second relationship, it can be a 30 minute relationship, but every interaction with another human is an opportunity. Matt Stone: So, Yeah. Matt Stone: yeah. Matt Stone: that was a lot of fun. I I'll never forget that lobster sandwich. Never forget it. Uh. Matt Stone: know you'll never forget it 'cause because when you were eating it, you forgot that I existed. Matt Stone: Yeah, that's true. Matt Stone: You, you'd, Matt Stone: I mean, it was really good. Um, Neptune Oyster, and they are not sponsoring this podcast yet, but Neptune Oyster in Boston is unbelievable. Okay, listen, we got a couple more questions. We're running up against the clock here. So, you're in the EQ space, so I'm gonna combine two questions. Matt Stone: Uh, I'm assuming you're gonna bring EQ in it, but I don't know. [00:14:00] What is it about relationships and business that isn't being talked about enough or at all that you think should be? Matt Stone: I think that what we don't talk enough about, and it was something that I eventually ran up against, being a new entrepreneur. It was something that I missed. Matt Stone: As an eager, you know, business owner, you want to get in, you wanna be successful, you wanna sell your service, you wanna do all of that, right? Matt Stone: But what's far more important than that is doing it with the right people and doing it in an aligned way. So I think what we need to talk more about when it comes to relationships and business is, who are you in business with? Would you say that the people that you're in business with are an accurate reflection of the values that you hold? Matt Stone: And I think that once we start to get into that conversation, get into that space, and we're, we're lit up from the inside out with a mission or a purpose or a cause, it really means Matt Stone: a lot for us. Matt Stone: Um, it just becomes about finding other [00:15:00] people who share that passion. And then the business ends up being an outcome of the passion that you both share. Matt Stone: You're both on fire, right? For whatever it is that, you're doing. And that's where I believe businesses truly become successful. It's through these relationships of people that are equally, lit up and, and inspired, and aligned in, value. So I think we need to talk a lot more about. Um, not just the operational components of business, which I think are important, strategy, all that kind of stuff, but also, you know, are you in alignment with the people that you're in business with and expanding together in a way that is fun and exhilarating, that makes it feel like you're, you're not even doing work? Matt Stone: Hmm. Matt Stone: Right? I think that that is, a missing component. Matt Stone: We're gonna have to explore that when we launch the show. Can you work successfully with people where certain values aren't in alignment? Where does it [00:16:00] work? Where does it does not work, right? I mean, that gets really tough. Um. Matt Stone: It gets really tough. Matt Stone: Okay, last question. You are more of an insider now 'cause I, Matt Stone: gave you a little bit of more behind the curtain on what we're actually planning and let me tell you, it's entertainment. Um, Matt Stone: so knowing what you know, what excites you most about the launch of the Building Business Relationships Show next year? Matt Stone: Uh, you, you actually excite me the most. Um, I'm excited to see you in, in your, in your element and the way that you've, I don't wanna give anything away, but the way that you've kind of structured the show, I think we're gonna get really interesting insight into the different aspects of, of who you are. Matt Stone: Right. So I'm excited to see that. I'm, I'm excited to be on the show. I actually thought that today was the, the show. I should have known that it wasn't, but I was blindsided by the fact that we're prepping for the show. So I'm very excited to be on the show myself. Matt Stone: Oh, you will be, you will be. In fact, my dream [00:17:00] is to get to the point where we're doing on location. So we go to Toronto and do a show, Matt Stone: and we go to, you know, Dallas and do a show and San Francisco and beyond North America. So that's my ultimate dream is to take this show on the road globally and take a panel with me. Matt Stone: So we've got panelists who are commenting on things and so you're, you're definitely gonna be part of that. Matt Stone: Thank you brother. Matt Stone: And I just wanna thank you again, Jamelle, for taking some time and I want to thank Matt Stone: our listeners. Thank you for listening to the Building Business Relationship Show. In this pre-launch phase. It's all about discovery. So if something sparked your interest, I'd love to hear from you, share your thoughts, ideas, or guest suggestions. Help us shape the conversations to come, and of course, Matt Stone: subscribe and follow on whatever platform. Also, it's on YouTube, so go to YouTube, find it. Matt Stone: It's under the same name. You'll find it. Subscribe there too, so that you will be the very first to know when we [00:18:00] drop new pre-launch content, and of course when we officially launch in 2026. Thanks so much. We'll see you next time.