Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #275 | What Builders Were Never Taught About Healthy Homes with Zara D'Cotta

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The Daily Dose #275 | What Builders Were Never Taught About Healthy Homes with Zara D'Cotta · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:17) good morning and welcome to the Good Builder podcast. Today's episode is about something most builders have never ever been taught. Not systems, not margins, not client management, the materials going into the homes we build and what they are doing to the people living inside. My guest today is Zara DeCotta. Zara is the founder of The Healthy Home, a building biology new build consultant and electromagnetic radiation specialist certifications. Now that says a lot about this amazing lady. She has spent the last five years directly working with builders, designers and architects across Australia and New Zealand. You'll find out where she actually is right now, because I think she's doing a little bit over there as well. But she helps them understand the connection between the built and human health. And actually we've seen a lot of interest around this and the good build. It was one of our most read articles when we started talking about healthy homes. The problem is we don't know enough about healthy homes. So what we did was we reached out to Zara, And we want to get her perspective because it's compelling, because it's personal. She went through cancer and environmental illness herself. And instead of just focusing on her recovery, she's focusing on the recovery of people around the world and trying to prevent this happening in our homes around Australia, New Zealand, and as I said, the world. It is my absolute pleasure. to bring to the studio this lovely lady who I had a chat with. I had the pleasure, I'm sorry I'm going on with a long one, but I had the pleasure of talking to her before this podcast and she pumped me up like you wouldn't believe. And I hope to see her more often on the Good Builder podcast. Welcome Zara D'Cotta how are you? Zara D'Cotta (01:59) thank you so much, Erin. Wow. What an introduction. No pressure here, but I really admire you and the work that you're doing with the Good Builder and your passion for creating better building industry is just so palpable. So I'm very honored to be interviewed by you today. Thank you. Aaron Ng (02:03) You ⁓ thank you so much. Well, you know, the feeling is absolutely mutual. And I think we're more honored to have you on. Like what you've been through, everything you're doing for the industry, everything you're doing for builders, just, I think what you actually do, Zara, goes beyond building. It goes into life. Like we live in our homes, we live life, we want to live a healthy life and environmental illness is something that you can sort of avoid. But could you tell us a little bit about your journey and where it all started and how you got into it? Zara, I might get emotional in this one. I hope I don't. Zara D'Cotta (02:37) Yep. well, it's I mean, it's been a long one. So I'll try and give you the in a nutshell version. But it started with a cancer diagnosis at age 29 and a melanoma diagnosis two years later, both led to significant lifestyle changes, switching to organic foods, learning to meditate, leaving my corporate career, my decade long corporate communications career to follow my passion for health and well-being. And then in the midst of all of that, I then lucky enough that my cancers hadn't spread, but then I had like 20 plus symptoms that no doctor could diagnose and eventually realized I'm of the wanting for people that are genetically susceptible to mold and my cancer treatments and all the stress that I'd been through had put me on the extreme end of the scale in terms of environmental sensitivity. So I spent another four years on the move trying to find a building that wasn't water damaged to enable me to heal. Aaron Ng (03:27) ⁓ Zara D'Cotta (03:38) In 2019, this is six years into my experiences with chronic illness, I thought that moving into a brand new build by the ocean in northern New South Wales was going to be the key to getting better. And that was when I experienced symptoms from the building materials in that home. And I've become familiar with building biology. started implementing principles to make my existing homes healthier. But it was at that point, that was really the straw that broke the camel's back that I realized that I really needed to understand a lot more about these so that I could. how do I want to build my own healthy home? And then how can I use my skills and communications to help others as well? And to be honest, at that point, my goal was homeowners. And I honestly do not think that there would be a day where I'd be taken seriously by the building industry. So that feels like a different lifetime ago now. Aaron Ng (04:12) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's fascinating. I'm sorry, I'm gonna quickly wipe away a little bit. We got cancer in the family and it's just like, ⁓ you know, and for things like, you know, when you when you think about this sort of stuff, Zara, it's like, you know, just shouldn't happen. You know, like, it just shouldn't happen. So I'm so glad the industry is taking you. Zara D'Cotta (04:39) wrong story. Mmm, that's Aaron Ng (04:52) seriously, and they certainly are like you have a great following people around here talk about you all the time and it's exactly why we want you on here. sorry, I'm going to pull myself together, but what was it actually? I do this a little bit. I'm sorry. And when we know you connect. And you know what you can make. Yeah. you can. No, no, you're right. You can. I laugh at myself. Sorry. Like you connect with people. Zara D'Cotta (04:59) Thank you. We are you No, I think it's wonderful. It's very endearing. I don't mean to laugh at you, but my story. Aaron Ng (05:17) I connect with people like, think on a funny guy, on an emotional level. I'm like, and then when I met you, I'm like, oh, wow, what a wonderful lady. And then I hear about your journey. I'm like, how horrible, you know, would that be to have to move to find a safe place to live? Like, it just shouldn't happen. Zara D'Cotta (05:32) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm lucky enough that it's a distant memory for me now, but the reality is that there are many, many thousands, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people all over the world right now that are in the trenches. They're so sick, they're financially strained because of their illness and they can't find a safe place to live. Aaron Ng (05:41) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's horrible. So I'm sorry that I did get a little emotional with everybody, but I just think that, you this is, you talk about, this is bigger than building. think what you do is like, it's bigger than building. love building, but this is, every builder should consider this, but this is bigger than building. So I think what you do is so cool. And that's why I'm so pumped for it. I'll do anything I can to get you out there. The other thing is, you're built into, you went into that brand new home. Zara D'Cotta (06:02) love you Aaron Ng (06:25) And you thought, you know, this is going to get me well, a brand new home. What was actually sort of happening inside of that house and, and what is the sort of situation with the standard that's happening today? I've even heard a bit, I've been shown new homes that are 14 months old with mold behind the walls. So yeah, what's happening out there Zara and what happened to you when you were in that new home? Zara D'Cotta (06:28) Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So I woke up after the first night. It was winter time. So I'd had all the windows closed and my eyes were stinging so intensely that I immediately opened all the windows and I just had to get out of the house for the morning while I fresh air in the house. I had a rash for the first few months and nausea. So there were mild but immediate symptoms. But what, what I, like you, I have a very inquisitive mind. I need to know the reason for everything. So that was the point I started studying building biology and building materials. And I had to research the known health effect and environmental impacts of every single ingredient, every single material that had been used to build my home. And I realized that the synthetic carpets, the polyurethane underlay, the MDF cabinetry, the paints, PVC floors, I was just in this toxic cocktail, like toxic chemical soap. And what I mean, so there's the chemical side of it. you know, formaldehyde is a known carcinogen to humans. There are VOC linked to hormone disruption, infertility, developmental issues in children. And then I do have to say I stayed in that house for five years. so I Aaron Ng (07:39) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (07:57) You know, it did enable me to get better than I had previously been in water damaged buildings, but I still suffered a lot every summer. know, until my last summer, I'd running 3D humidifiers to try and get humidity below 60%, running two aircon units and just still struggling. And then I actually, once I started learning about building science and I'd go around to cafes and restaurants in the Northern Rivers in summertime and I'd noticed a lot of people really cranky and... Aaron Ng (08:02) Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (08:21) The penny just dropped. was like, people are cranky because they're not sleeping properly because their homes aren't built properly for this climate. And then the other side of it was, ⁓ you know, one of my most distinct memories is being in an older terrace house, staying at a house temporarily in Sydney in Paddington, which is very well known for having, you know, issues. ⁓ Aaron Ng (08:25) Yeah, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zara D'Cotta (08:44) I'm so sick by like my fourth night that I had to go and sleep in my car because I just had such a bad chest cough that went into an infection. And the thing that I thought then and with my house in the Northern New South Wales and the building materials is I'm an adult. I know that this is being triggered by mold. I know that this is being triggered by building materials. I can remove myself. I can get an air purifier. What about a baby? What about a toddler? What about a child that Aaron Ng (08:49) ⁓ Yeah Yes. Zara D'Cotta (09:07) is coughing and screaming and their parents have no idea why and they don't know what to do. And so that was the driving force behind what I do is that more people need to know this so that young children aren't suffering unnecessarily and getting, you know, getting illnesses that are preventable and life threatening because of what's being used to build our homes. Aaron Ng (09:13) Wow. Yeah Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's, again, it just shows your passion for the industry. I love that you just instead of, you know, I'm sorry to say this, but wallowing in your own misery and focusing on your own recovery, you're like, look at what happened. Look at what this does to our society. You know, let's fix it. It does nothing for the industry as well. told you, I'm sorry, Zara, to cut you but and I've told this story Zara D'Cotta (09:39) Yes. Yeah, and That's alright. Aaron Ng (09:50) I'm going to do it very quickly because I've told it a few times on the podcast. People probably sick of it, but I was down at the development and I don't want to bag new home builders or anything, but I was down at the development, walked in there. I was doing a little segment with my little microphone to camera and this chippy comes up to me and what are you doing, man? Who are you? They didn't know who the good builder was. We were relatively new. And I'm like, I'm trying to be like this news media guy. And I'm talking about building in the industry and I love it. And I want to do stuff on this new development and who's building here and what. And he said to me, don't go down to those houses there. because you peek behind the walls and they're not very old and they've already got mold. And I was the chippy and I'm ashamed to put my name to him. And I was just like, are you serious? And he was like, it's everywhere, Zara D'Cotta (10:22) Yeah. Mm hmm. I had a builder in the Northern Rivers after going through my program, send me a photo from a building site he was called to help out on. And there was insulation that was waterlogged. It was all flooded and they were about to put the jibrock in, like the insulation, the wet insulation was just going to be sealed into the wall. Brand new building. Aaron Ng (10:34) Mm. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. That's just, yeah. So again, I just absolutely love what you're standing for. Sorry, I was a little emotional in the start of it, but yeah. Zara D'Cotta (10:53) Yeah. No, I also want to say this isn't, it's not necessarily rogue builders or bad intentions. It's just that they haven't been taught, designers haven't been taught. It's just, there's a knowledge gap. Aaron Ng (11:04) No. Exactly. Yep. Yep. No, absolutely. Thank you for clearing that up, Zara. And we were alluding to that. We're never saying new home builders are out. There's a lot that are great builders. They just don't know. I know a couple of good builders that do know that are quite good actually. And I think they follow you. And it's the reason why they're probably good builders, to be honest. And they talk a lot about, big shout out to Craig Shudden, Dwayne Pierce and the guys that love Zara. But anyway, they do love you a lot. Zara D'Cotta (11:27) Aww. ⁓ that was so nice. Aaron Ng (11:36) But, and we see, I do a few videos of their buildings and they are very, very on top of probably maybe not to the degree you are, but condensation management and all that sort of thing. are just like, this is the building envelope. This is what it's all about, you know. ⁓ Zara D'Cotta (11:47) Well, it's It's a credit to them and it's a credit to you and all the other builders that like, as a female that's been in this industry for a very short period of time compared to all of you that, yeah, you're willing to hear a different perspective and actually then make those changes. It's incredible. Aaron Ng (12:07) We, you're starting a movement, Zara. Like, I think it's cool. You're starting a movement. That's what you're doing. And it's a movement that needs to be had. So we want a, we want healthier future generations. Zara D'Cotta (12:09) off. I have to say, I am standing on the shoulders of giants, my mentors at the Building Biology Institute, Paula Baker-Lepore and a lot of other people that have been pioneering this space for a long time. And it's really only now that it's just started to gain momentum. So I'm very grateful to Anton Schneider, the founder of Building Biology, the people that really pioneered this work. And now we're finally at a point, or at least later, where we can start talking about it in the mainstream. Aaron Ng (12:20) Yeah. Yeah, you are cool. You are very cool, humble as well. And it's so cool. Well, talking about building biology, actually, it's probably a bit of a term that many Australian and New Zealand builders might not have heard of. some clients, like I talked to a few people who are building and I've been talking about you and they've been following you now and they're like, I never kind of knew this. And I'm like, yeah, well, there's a few people out there like this. What are you, Zara? Zara D'Cotta (12:54) Yeah! Yep. Yeah, so I'm a building biologist and my focus specifically is on new builds and electromagnetic radiation. there are building biology is a very vast field. Some building biologists will specifically focus on mold testing. Others will focus on electromagnetic radiation. But my I really for me, it's not a fun experience telling people there's significant problems with their existing home that are very difficult and costly to fix. So I really wanted to be part of a longer term, much bigger solution, which is why I focus on new builds. So building biology, the background, it was founded in post-war Germany in the late 1960s. And it's very interesting when you think about it, because Passive House started in Germany. So after World War, after the World War II, there was obviously they needed to construct a lot of new homes really quickly. And that was in the early 1960s, they started to use different types of Aaron Ng (13:54) done. Zara D'Cotta (13:58) building materials, so synthetic materials, faster methods of construction. And it was towards the end of 1960s that Anton Schneider, PhD and other professionals started noticing a decline in the health of the population. so building biology was founded and it focuses on is the study of the relationship between the building and the health of the human and the environment. And the goal is for each of those three things to be in harmony. Aaron Ng (14:03) Yeah. Is there much of that sort of happening here? we run across, I know this is an odd question, but in Australia, we just released a data report and I'm not trying to give it a plug, right? But I was trying to be so comprehensive with it and our team. And I'm like, get everything you can to help builders. And I... Zara D'Cotta (14:33) Yeah. Aaron Ng (14:39) I never kind of popped across this in the mainstream. Like, where do we find this kind of information, Zara? Like, it's probably people like you that are doing it on that level of working with builders and things like that. But is there an overarching body or anything? Sorry if that's a silly question. Zara D'Cotta (14:54) Yeah, there are are building biologists in Australia and also then yeah also globally trained through the Building Biology Institute in the USA as well Aaron Ng (14:57) Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right, no worries. It It's like the fundamental. I don't know for me, Zara, maybe I'm taking all this a bit too literal, but for me, like what you do is essential to living. And just health. Zara D'Cotta (15:15) Yeah, I think about it. about building biology, the German word for it is about biology, which is building for life. Literally means, yeah, yeah. Aaron Ng (15:22) ⁓ wow. That's what I'm talking about, Zara, because, so I, you know, I'll very quickly go over this and again, try not to get emotional, but, so we've got cancer in our family on my wife's side, a lot of it. And where they lived was in central New South Wales on farms, you know, probably the homes weren't built great. They were spraying crops. Zara D'Cotta (15:36) Mhm. Aaron Ng (15:46) all of this sort of stuff. And I know that's kind of it's all the environment we've had, you know, now they've half the kids are dead by 40. ⁓ The father just passed away. The mothers had reoccurring cancer. And it's just going through the family. You just don't know who's next. You know, and it's happening at a very young age. And it's just and that's why I'm so passionate about it, too. I'm just like, there has to be something and how why should Zara D'Cotta (15:49) Yeah. Yup. I'm so sorry. Aaron Ng (16:10) like what happened to you, where you live. And I know they were in a bit of a different situation, impact your health like this. It's just really sad for me. Zara D'Cotta (16:18) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because knowing that there are. Aaron Ng (16:21) Yeah, solutions. Zara D'Cotta (16:22) it could be preventable, Aaron Ng (16:24) But that's why I think, yeah, why I want to get you out there. But anyway, yeah, you've spoken to a few things. So you've spoken to the four key areas that affect health in a home, Zara, that you talk about a bit on your socials and through everything that you do, your workshops and things that you're coaching and consulting and things like that. Materials, moisture, air quality and electromagnetic radiation. Zara D'Cotta (16:28) Thank you. Yep. Aaron Ng (16:47) What are most sort of common mistakes or what do you sort of see out there Zara in terms of this and how are they affecting it all? Zara D'Cotta (16:54) So I think one of the most common ones with materials is builders, homeowners, designers trying to do the right thing and choose healthier materials. And so choosing low VOC options and thinking that that automatically means it's better, but not actually being aware a product can contain semi VOCs like plasticides, pesticides, antimicrobials, flame retardants. and still be considered low VOC. And so without full ingredient transparency, then it's really hard to know. And often, like I've seen a brand being promoted by builders as low VOC and then I've reached out to them to get more information and found out that that product actually does contain semi VOCs. So that is an industry blind spot that I think people need to be aware of and ask deeper questions and push for full transparency and emissions testing. Aaron Ng (17:41) forky areas. Zara D'Cotta (17:42) So with the moisture management, think one of the common things is trapping moisture in the building envelope is a really common thing in the construction stage of any building that can be prevented. you've got timber framing being exposed to rain for long periods of time and then the walls being sealed and the flooring and the cabinetry being laid before the concrete's had a chance to fully cure or while the timber framing. is still has still got high moisture levels. So then that moisture is being sealed into the walls. And that's why you mold can become become a problem very early on in the life of a home. Aaron Ng (18:15) Yeah. Yeah, wow. Wow. And the electromagnetic radiation sort of stuff. What does that sort of encompass to? I've heard a few. I've actually went to a family barbecue and we've got a very health conscious family friend and they were talking about like this sort of stuff. I didn't understand it, but they were talking about turning off their Wi-Fi at night and all this different stuff. But I don't know if that's the right thing. I think that's very simplistic. I don't know. But what is it? Zara D'Cotta (18:37) What is this? Yup. Aaron Ng (18:44) What does that entail? This is fascinating for me and I'm sure our community. Zara D'Cotta (18:48) Yeah, so electromagnetic fields relate to any sources of our electrical appliances, our wiring power lines, our Wi-Fi routers. There are six different types of electromagnetic fields. The thing that I think builders need to understand that a health focus is that the electrical code states that it is designed to prevent shock, fire and injury. And it doesn't take into account decades worth of research on the known. biological effects of electromagnetic fields. And so there's no guidance on how close a bedroom should be to power lines or where your solar inverter or where your electrical panel or your smart meter should be paced, not behind bedheads. And these are things that can contribute to insomnia, headaches, infertility, cancer. And it can all sound quite alarming, but it's also very empowering because when people make the connection between these things in our homes, like assessing the home of a doctor and his wife, who weren't sleeping very well, and we realized that they were actually, they had a wifi extender in their room and they were sleeping behind the electrical panel and the main wifi router was there and they were being exposed to millions of microwatts per meter squared. And we made some adjustments. They moved to the bed on the other side of the room and immediately they were sleeping better. Aaron Ng (19:41) Yeah. what are you serious? You know saying I don't sleep so well and I think I've got a problem anyway with my ADHD and things like that Zara. I have a wireless router in my room. And as you're talking, I'm just thinking about this thing. And I think my sleep has gotten worse. I used to wake up at like 330. Now I wake up at three, 230 and I don't go to bed call 10 and I'm not tired. Zara D'Cotta (19:59) Yeah. Yum. Gosh. Yeah. Well, there are there is research I can share on my social media accounts between radio frequency exposure and autism and ADHD. It's one of the first one of the seven environmental toxins that Dr. Dietrich Klinghart, a well-known environmental health doctor, suggests reducing exposure to for children with these. Aaron Ng (20:25) Yay! Zara D'Cotta (20:40) conditions and peers of mine at my electromagnetic radiation specialist training in the USA and mentors were sharing stories of change that were made like going fully hardwired, reducing, getting rid of wireless internet and yeah, taking several steps to reduce exposure and noticing significant improvements in their children. Yeah. Aaron Ng (21:39) So, okay, the penny's starting to drop a little bit for me, Zara. This is how you work with a new home builder from the get go of building a home, for example. You'd sort of work at that design planning stage and you'd be able to influence and impact how a client's gonna build. Or do you work from the client side, which you work on both? Zara D'Cotta (21:55) Yes. I used to work with residential clients, but my work now is focused on builders and designers and now also building material suppliers. So ideally at the beginning of a build, would get a health hazard assessment done. So part of that would be getting site readings taken and understanding what the exposure levels are from phone towers, nearby wireless devices, and understanding where are the hotspots on that block of land, and then designing making design and material selections based on that. Because if you know this stuff at the beginning of a build, can, you know, like a high mass wall system with concrete or round earth, like that will absorb the radio frequency radiation and significantly reduce indoor levels. The home I was in for five years in Northern Rivers, downstairs my exposure levels were fine, but upstairs at my desk, phone tower 800 meters away, that, you know, I needed to put some, Aaron Ng (22:32) Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (22:54) measures in place to reduce my exposure. So it could be, it could help you decide where the bedrooms should be. So you want the areas of prolonged exposure to be within building biology guidelines. Aaron Ng (23:04) This is, I reckon we could talk for a day. This is absolutely fascinating. Like what you do Zara. No, is. And when only scratching the surface, I think we're only going to like just scratch the surface. So as I said, I'd love to have you back on and like, I'm just sitting here thinking about all of this and you know, as everyone saw, I got quite emotional in the beginning. think from the perspective of, of building just better homes and being a better industry, we need to do this. So please get in touch with Zara. Zara D'Cotta (23:06) Seriously, it's a big thing. Aaron Ng (23:30) from the other perspective, now putting my sales hat on, I'm really sorry Zara, but I do have one. And on my sales hat, I'm like, imagine you're a new home builder and you could say, hey, we build healthier homes and this is how we go about it. And you show that you truly care for your clients. Number one, that's gonna get you more sales. Number two, when the client actually lives in your home and lives a comfortable, healthy lifestyle and is sleeping better and all that sort of stuff, that is stuff that like, I don't know Zara, like, Zara D'Cotta (23:34) Alright, so I cut it. Aaron Ng (23:57) I wouldn't even pay a million bucks for that. I would pay more than a billion. Like I don't even know what you would pay for a good night's sleep and a constant healthier life. there's no price. This one passion, what you do. Yeah. It's what you do is priceless, Zara That's why I'm so passionate about it because it's, you can't put a price on your life. If you can, you've got a problem. Zara D'Cotta (24:06) Yeah, it's priceless. Yeah, as I've, know, both of us have probably learned like if you don't have your health, when you've got your health, can, you can do anything you want in life, but without. Aaron Ng (24:24) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, doesn't matter. You could have the biggest flashiest house in the world that's making you sick and you won't be doing anything, you know, I think it's ⁓ wow, wow. No, this is this is absolutely cool. Well, I was gonna ask you a little bit about mold and moisture, but I think kind of covered it. If there's anything else you'd like to cover around that, that's a big topic and a hot topic right here in southeast Queensland. Zara D'Cotta (24:30) It's very hard. I've seen those. Yeah. All Yep. Aaron Ng (24:54) I know right now I'm around Australia, but yeah. Zara D'Cotta (24:54) It a big topic and I guess the thing that I would add to it and I know that the frustration of builders, they have the limited ability to influence if they're not brought in in the design stage, but I know a lot more of them are starting to work at that earlier stage is ⁓ the materials are one thing, but when I think back to every home that I've been in and the mall problems, Aaron Ng (25:00) Yeah. Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (25:18) Like the design really, I think of it as the first line of defense. So you want to design the building to give water the best chance of draining away from the home. having drainage away from the home, having a pitched roof with wide E's so that you don't have moisture seeping into the foundations and in through the concrete slab and contributing to elevated indoor mold. Aaron Ng (25:18) Yeah. Yeah, Zara D'Cotta (25:41) Yeah, doing during construction like window and door and WRB leak testing. A builder that I've worked with that's been a client of mine is that I saw him, he's doing all the wet areas. He flood tested, he flooded them and left them overnight just to check if there were any leaks. So these are things, I mean, I've been in a couple of homes that have been brand new builds that have had water seeping in through windows and doors. that, yeah, just shouldn't be. Aaron Ng (26:04) Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (26:07) you Aaron Ng (26:08) yeah. No, I just wonderful what you do, Zara. So you run the building, you run the building healthy building materials mastermind, and you still doing that, which is it's become a lot of, you know, a lot of people in this space, a lot of, as I said, a lot of builders that we know rave about you and things like that. Zara D'Cotta (26:17) Yep. Aaron Ng (26:26) How do they, beyond this, how do they work with these, and what does the sort of mastermind entail and what's for the future for the healthy home and how you work with builders? Zara D'Cotta (26:35) Yeah, so the healthy building materials mastermind is really the entry point and that's it's I guess it goes much It's it's I think a lot of them tell me it's it goes a lot deeper than any any of them ever thought possible and I guess Yes, there's a huge knowledge shift that but that's almost the smallest part of it And as you touched on earlier I think what happens first is it really resonates with them on a personal level and they start drawing a connection between Aaron Ng (26:48) Mm. Zara D'Cotta (27:00) things that family members or themselves might be experiencing their home and then linking that to problems that then they can help fix. get wives reaching out saying, like, thank you that they're so grateful that their husband's now got this knowledge. But then, and then they realize that that is a core value that they can then build into their business and really help change their clients' lives and add value. pre-construction. So that's really the entry point. And then now what I'm focused on is there's another course that I've created. It's called the Low EMF Home Design and Construction Course. So that's really for our alumni community, designers and builders that are ready to that next step, because the mold and moisture management really should be the number one step. And that's for designers and builders wanting to go deeper. And then I have another framework that I haven't... Aaron Ng (27:22) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (27:41) released broadly yet, but I've been trialling with a few designers and builders called the Healthy Home Building Blueprint. So that guides them through pre-design, design, construction, EMF criteria, post-construction. Yeah, so there's a lot that I've got planned. And then as I mentioned, I'm also now working at a manufacturer level, which I'm really excited about because it's, because of the questions that our mastermind. designers and builders are now asking of manufacturers, they're realizing that actually they need to know more about this. They need to provide better information on what's in their materials. yeah, so I'm really excited at, you know, the, I hoped five years ago that we might maybe influence the supply chain. And I'm now seeing this playing out in real time that this, yeah, we do as a community really have the potential to have huge impact here. Aaron Ng (28:14) Yeah. a massive one. And as you know, Zara, like off the back of our first meeting, I was so impressed and you don't have to impress me because I'm nobody, but you were so amazing. And I believe in you so much in what you do and what you stand for and everything that you're giving to this industry that we did make a little connection to a great association who are very, very excited to be talking to you. And I think they're going to be a great association. You know, they do a lot. They do a lot. can't say who they are, but they do a lot. And there's going to be, they see what you do. They see the value in what you do and they're going to be spreading it out to the market and working with their builders and you and all that sort of thing. I can't wait to see that come to life because they're not a supplier, a manufacturer, but being an association that advocates for healthier ways of building. When I introduced you, she was just like, my God, I've been wanting to talk to her for ages and I'm like, I was the same. And then I just sent her an Instagram message and she came back and I'm like, Holy shit, Zara, the cottage has talked to me. I think we're on, you know, so she's, they're so pumped to talk to you. And I think at a supplier level, you can do a lot. Just talking about that actual supply level, you going, how are you going to work with them, Zara? Are you going to dig deep into the VOCs and all that sort of stuff and, and, and, and try and advise them and help them out with things? Zara D'Cotta (29:45) Yeah, so looking, doing assessments of their materials through, I've got a, yeah, through building biology and building science criteria, actually giving them my idea of how their products fare. But also I actually realized at end of last year, oh my gosh, my 10 year corporate career, I used to work with engineers, brewers, like really technical people. And I used to translate their jargon into language for consumers. Aaron Ng (29:51) Yep. Yep. With another. Oof. Zara D'Cotta (30:09) and sales teams. And so that's really what I'm able to help building material supplies do. So helping up skill that marketing, that internal teams advise them on the health of their products and how they can potentially improve and how they can better communicate to the market. Aaron Ng (30:25) I wish I'd scream their name right now who I introduce you to, but I'm sure they're gonna listen to this episode anyway. And I'm gonna send it to them because that is exactly what they want. And yeah, and that was kind of the inkling in my head when I made the sort of contact, but they'd already wanted to contact you. I was just a conduit. And like that is exactly what they wanna do. They wanna. Zara D'Cotta (30:33) Yeah. Aaron Ng (30:45) show how it is to build healthy and communicate to the client what it means to build healthy. But on the other side, I think they don't want to bullshit anyone and go, we are actually building healthy because Zara actually likes us. Zara D'Cotta (30:50) Yeah. Yeah, this is, and that's what I'm really committed to because there are massive blind spots. And what I actually see is examples of where data sheets and marketing language is actually really confusing and misleading. And I, there's no ill intent by the supplier. It's just a genuine knowledge gap that I really want to help them fill. that, cause I know that I can see that they're trying to do the right thing, but it's just like, okay, how do we take it further? Aaron Ng (31:00) Yeah. Bridge? Or who better? Yeah, yeah, and yeah, anyway, we'll keep going on with them. But yeah, they admit they don't know. And so people like you are going to be absolutely amazing. Anyone else that in this industry that we deal with, know, James Hardies of the world, anyone else color bonds? Zara D'Cotta (31:23) Yeah. Aaron Ng (31:33) We got Zara, if you want to have a chat with her, if she's not already chatting with you, I think that's pretty cool. And from a supplier level, I think that's where it all begins as well. And I love how you've done that because, you know, if we can stop it at that supplier level or better at that supplier level, then builders won't have so much of a problem later on down the track. And I love that you're shooting for the stars Zara. You're just like, all right, builders, we got you. We know you want to build healthy now suppliers. Let's catch up. Let's get, you know, come, come along this journey. Zara D'Cotta (31:59) Yeah, well, I've got to give so much credit to the builders because it's because of them. It's because of this. And there's, know from my building biology colleagues in all over the world that there isn't any other community of builders quite like what we're seeing in Australia that's really at the forefront of bringing health into construction. So big clap to all the, all the people that are driving this. Yep. Aaron Ng (32:04) That tool. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's such a legend. Nah, you're such a legend. Sorry. Brings up a good point to when we started the good builder. I'm like, what makes a good builder? look around and I'm like, everybody wants to be a good builder. There's no one out there that's like I talked to that's like, I don't want to be a good builder. Some of them just don't have that knowledge gap, like he said, and you know, that's why we do this to bring people on like you that fill that knowledge gap, and they can just be better builders. And I think that's super cool. Zara D'Cotta (32:32) Yep. Aaron Ng (32:45) I love it. Zari, just fascinating. You're amazing. just, there's no one, I know there is people out there like you, but in this space, this space that you're taking on, I think it's just critical to the building industry. Like it's just, as I said, life and everything. But anyway, you're in Mexico too. What are you doing over there? Zara D'Cotta (33:04) So I'm based in Baja in Mexico. Well, when my lease was terminated in that home, I thought, hey, here's actually an opportunity to try. I was in a very humid region of Australia and I'm old sensitive. What would it be like to maybe live in a desert environment? So, yeah, I set off to find, you know, open to what life presented. And I'm now looking out into the desert and the ocean. And I definitely find that my body definitely responds well in this environment. But it's also a great base to be, I've got an incredible growing network of peers and collaborators in the USA and Canada. So yeah, it's great because I get to the perspective on both markets, Australia, the US, Canada. And yeah, it's a great base to work across both markets. Aaron Ng (33:45) Yeah. Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. And I think you're saying it does bring a bit of a new lease on life for you was we ought to go over and see what's sort of happening at those expos and things. and also, I think it's really interesting, you know, health seems like it's so important to you. You know, I guess part of your decision to move was also to live in an environment where you can live a healthier life, which is cool. And that's what you're all about. Yeah. Zara D'Cotta (34:08) Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And also seeing, seeing what's, you know, I did some site visits last year on some high end healthy home builds and it's been really interesting to see like how, how much EMF is a real priority on high end healthy home builds, clients with budgets that really care about health are really, yeah, they're really invested in these things that I think, in Australia, yes, taking quite a bit of time and, and education understanding. understandably because the market's so focused on moisture management, which it needs to be. But yeah, there will come a point where I hopefully more builders will realise it does need to be addressed. Aaron Ng (34:41) more holistically. hell yeah. it's already happened, Zara. I can tell by your socials. The other thing, I've got two more questions for you. You know, there has been a lot more attention around the passive house. We see a lot of people, builders start calling themselves passive house builders and building in that passive house manner. A lot of talk about sustainable materials, a lot of talk about thermal performance and things like that. But you said that, you know, the sustainability stuff and health aren't the same thing. Zara D'Cotta (35:09) Yeah. Aaron Ng (35:09) How can you, how can a home score well on one and then fall in that other segment of health? Sorry, how's it? Zara D'Cotta (35:15) So an example of that would be, okay, so a material is recycled. So then it gets promoted as being a sustainable material, but then what binders are in it? Is it gonna impact how that material manages moisture? Is it gonna contribute to mold? What's it being treated with? Is it gonna off-gas toxic chemicals? I just saw something on Instagram today about recycled paper being used instead of plastic wrap, plastic WRP, which... Yeah, you're not using plastic, but recycled paper is food for mold. So that's one side of it. And then I think... Aaron Ng (35:41) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zara D'Cotta (35:48) A passive house, I'm a huge advocate for those principles, building science, preventing uncontrolled air and moisture leaks. I know that when I build my home, I want a passive house to build it, but you need to go a step further if you want it to be healthy. And I think there is a perception that a passive house is a healthy house, but you could have a passive house and you could have materials that are off-gassing and you could have really high electromagnetic radiation levels. And I think that that's something that the industry needs to be aware of because it could create confusion for consumers. It could create risk for the builder. If the client thinks it's a healthy home and then they go and get an assessment in a few years time, they're not sleeping or they've had other health issues. they're like, actually, yeah, it's a passive house, but there were other issues that weren't addressed. Aaron Ng (36:32) Mm. Yeah, you're completely right. It's happening already, Zara. It's happening already. I've seen comments and confusion and discussion and conversations around like, what is a passive house? From a customer point of view, they're not exactly asking that, but they kind of, it's not exactly the healthy home as per se. I'm not saying it isn't, there's things that can affect it, that it's not the ultimate standard of health, I guess. If I'm allowed to say, that's my opinion. Zara D'Cotta (36:47) Yup. The other. Yeah, and I think it's really important to say that healthy home, it is a subjective term. It's not regulated and it's going to mean something different to everybody based on their experiences and their boat of knowledge. For some people it will mean circadian lighting and a sauna and an ice bath. For someone else it might mean a passive house. For me, building biology is the only science that fully explores the impact of the built environment on the health of the human. So for me personally, unless building biology principles have been incorporated, yeah, I think that's where the gap is. yeah, it's not to judge if building biology principles have been followed, but I think it needs to be really clearly articulated in the marketing. So even for builders that go through a healthy building materials mastermind, I provide them with guidelines. Aaron Ng (37:37) No no no. Zara D'Cotta (37:47) Like they have knowledge to make healthy building material selections. They have knowledge to consider how materials might impact the electric climate and how to reduce mold risk during construction. But they also are really aware of where there are knowledge gaps and where they might want to talk to clients about bringing in a consultant, like an EMF specialist, to fill those gaps. So it's just about being really clear and really transparent in their marketing about what healthy means to them and how they can help deliver it. Aaron Ng (37:47) Yeah. We are. I again, totally agree with you Zara because there's a few builders, for example, here that are probably volume builders. I'm talking specifically South East Queensland now and they've got a display home and they're marking it as a healthy home. And the reason it's a healthy home is because it's got a sauna and a dog bath. And I'm kind of like, wait a minute, man, this is not a healthy home. You know, that is not a healthy, no, that is not a healthy home. And like, I... Zara D'Cotta (38:27) Yup. Aaron Ng (38:40) And people are talking about it and they're talking about it like it's a healthy home. I'm kind of like, you're going to be bitterly disappointed. You could probably just buy a sauna for three grand and chuck it in a home and call it a healthy home if that's what you want to do. It's not it. So I didn't want to get that clear distinction. love it. It's interesting. Zara D'Cotta (38:53) I mean, you know, we haven't even touched on lighting and water and that's a whole other rabbit hole, but they're really important ones as well. Yeah. Aaron Ng (38:59) Both. I'll tell you what, Zara, that's why I'm asking you if you, and maybe this is live or whatever, but I want you to be a co-host on The Good Builder. I want you back. Like I want you to come on here regularly as a segment and talk about Healthy Homes and educate this audience if you have the time, because this is like, you are fascinating and I am not. equipped to probably hold conversation with you. So it would probably be good for you to do a solo episode with one of your community and would would post it up on the Good Builder so you can just talk with colleagues that you can talk on that level. And I think that would be so cool. Zara D'Cotta (39:25) Well, for sure. I love how passionate you are about these sorts of conversation. I'm very open to having. Aaron Ng (39:36) cool. Sorry that I did it on the podcast, but I probably wanted to put you on the spot because I want you, I want you on. I think you're amazing. Like, and I know our audience will. ⁓ I have one more question for you Zara before we leave, unfortunately, but we will do, as I said, we're going to bring Zara back on. Hopefully she's, she might be being nice on this podcast, but we'll talk about it afterwards. But I want Zara back on this so much to talk about. I'm so passionate about this. You builders have got to get into her mastermind as well. If you don't know about Healthy Homes, find out about it. Zara D'Cotta (39:43) Okay. Aaron Ng (40:05) the right way and we'll put all the links below and all the other stuff she does. But the last question that I have for you Zara is, you know we're called the good builder of course. What do you think makes a good builder? Zara D'Cotta (40:15) Yeah, I love that. Well, something I think that most builders don't realize is that they have more of a significant impact on their client's health than their family doctor, because the doctor will treat the symptoms and the builder will actually shape the environment that could determine whether those symptoms even occur. And I think it takes a very particular type of builder to act on that. Aaron Ng (40:38) powerful. ⁓ Zara D'Cotta (40:43) based on the builders that I've been lucky enough to call clients over the past five years, something that I've observed is they're very humble and they're willing to put their egos aside and recognize that there's more that they need to learn. And they're willing to go on a very steep learning curve and challenge their own pre-existing assumptions and recognize where there are knowledge gaps. And they're also really collaborative and open-minded. They're networking with others in the industry and recognizing that rising tide lifts all ships and that we all benefit from having a collaborative mindset and they're really on the path of continuous improvement. Aaron Ng (41:20) I don't know what else to say, but I totally agree. I love it. I think you've touched on personal traits that haven't been touched on before that make a good builder and that attitude stuff that I think is it's like people say hi for attitude, train for skill. You know how they say that in a way Zara you're kind of like, Hey, good builders have this good attitude about what they're going to deliver. And they have this good attitude about they know they don't know everything like, you know, I don't know everything. And they know that, you know, Zara D'Cotta (41:36) yes. Yeah. Aaron Ng (41:48) there's a better way to do things and be open-minded enough to work with people like you. And I think that's completely it. And as a society, I shouldn't go on with this because we're called the good bit, but I think if we did that as a whole and we all, like you said, rising tide lifts all ships and we go together, we're good. Like we're gonna be a good industry and we need people like you to help rise and bring the ships with us, I reckon. Zara D'Cotta (42:03) Yup. Thank you so much, Erin. I've absolutely loved every moment of chatting to you. I love, know that your passion for this is, I'm sure it's going to have an impact as well. Aaron Ng (42:16) ⁓ I'll tell you what Zara after honestly talking to you, I'm more passionate. So the whole industry better watch out because there's going to be a lot of content around this. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of content around this that comes from this podcast. And we really, I won't put you on the spot, but we really want to partner with you Zara. And we'd love to get more of your message out there. We'll write articles about you. We'll do every, you know, anytime you got a workshop, let us know we're going to spruik it to the world. We'll even put money behind it to promote it so that they go to your workshop because Zara D'Cotta (42:35) Yep. Yep. Aaron Ng (42:47) I think if we can do that and we can build healthier homes and we don't have families suffering through crap they don't have to, everyone's going to love us. yeah, we're just going to be prouder in the work we deliver. So let's do it. Zara D'Cotta (42:57) You're amazing. I feel very grateful that our paths crossed and very excited about what we can do together. Aaron Ng (43:00) Crap. Well, thank you. yes. Yeah, you're so lovely. I didn't expect you to answer my Instagram message. But anyway, thank you, Zara, for everything. You are wonderful. But everybody, ⁓ all the links will be below to work with Zara. You guys jump on the wait list, get on it because heaps of builders want to, and I hope we all build healthier as an industry here in Australia, New Zealand and across the world really. But yeah, we're focused on Australia. So more Zara. All right, Zara, thank you so much.